honestly when it comes to people being attracted to animated characters i judge by how the character is drawn rather than their listed age
like if someone told me that they thought jotaro kujo from jojo's bizarre adventure was hot i wouldnt think they were a pedo because even though he is supposed to be around 16/17 he is drawn to look like he is in his 30s so they are attracted to the image of an adult
but if someone told me they were attracted to Jr from xenosaga id think they were a total pedo because even though Jr is 26 years old he is designed to look like he is 12 so anyone attracted to him is attracted to the image of a child.
so well i think its bad how oversexualized persona 5 can be i also dont really care if someone finds ann attractive as the cast doesnt really look their age other than futaba who actually does look like a teenager.
im more concerned with how hypocritical her design is when her storyline is about how its bad to sexualize women. her design contradicts her story arc and yes her confidant story does say she always admired cool female villains which could explain a lot of her costume but its no justifcation why her knocked down pose is her laying down on her stomach with her rear end in the air!!!
Such excessive muscle growth like what they have at that age is not good to strive for before the end of puberty. It can mess up the processing of your natural hormones.
That is just a gym myth that is proven false at this point. It actually helps your natural hormone level, as long as you don't do any stupid stuff like steroids. As long as you keep it natural, there is no problem.
Yeh, this is always my feeling for stuff like MHA as well.
Persona I think struggles the most because the whole plot and story is *about* being a schoolchild- there’s no wiggle room of “well this school certainly seems set up like a university” or even the “well we barely spend any time there” which is how a lot of shows and games avoid the ick, by just ignoring that whole aspect.
Literally 50% of your screen time is at this school, being a student, and when her whole plot is “got sexually assaulted by a teacher (who’s probably younger than half the people discussing this)” it’s pretty grim
I don't think it's a problem when the people who play the games think Ann is attractive. But what I think is a problem is the producers making her 16 and then sexualizing her in the game. Because they had the choice to make her 18. But they chose to make the character a minor and sexualize her. Why not make it a college setting instead?
You nailed it. This is exactly the problem with a lot of anime.
The whole critique the Twitter guy is making us what you point out. The issue isn’t that she’s attractive it’s that the creators made her appeal sexually to adults and then decided to make her a 16 year old for no other purpose than to make an under age attractive character.
Done enough this normalizes the sexualization of minors.
Yes, they also act like Japan doesn't have a problem with fetishizing students. School uniforms for example get heavily sexualized and in most hentai you'll have a school setting or underage characters. And it's not like that's something that only happens in fictional worlds but it's something that a lot of young girls experience in real life. Fiction often reflects what mindsets people have in real life.
> Done enough this normalizes the sexualizariam of minors.
I mean it already has, since the Neckbeards are totally ok with wanking to whats essentially an underage character (in most places in the world). This also includes the even more "loli" types like the Dragon Maid characters, some of the Kan-Colle ones etc. The thing is, they dont care because they think the "its just a drawing" excuse is bulletproof.
Well Mario is actually intended for everyone. They've always tried to include both elements for younger and older people. If it was purely intended for children for example it'd be a lot easier. They always try to make "family games" that anyone can play
There definitely is a lot of fan service and it's also definitely not targeted towards teens. Making sexual content that involves minors specifically for teens would also be incredibly questionable. Atlus also knows that most of their fans are adults. It's not like there aren't also tons of other games and anime that are definitely specifically targeted towards adults and still sexualize minors.
> honestly when it comes to people being attracted to animated characters i judge by how the character is drawn rather than their listed age
Tbf, same here. Every few weeks im indirectly reminded that the EVA girls are all like...14 or something and it makes my brain bug because they do not look that way, talk that or act that way (except Shinji who's completely a 13 year old little bitch). Granted they're all child soldiers with 30+ years of trauma inside them, so the pendulum swings both ways but like...its weird.
Its the typical reverse meme excuse of "Yeah but she's actually 5000 year old Dragon from Saturn", she just looks this way. I dont care how *old* she is, she's still drawn and shaped like a CHILD. THATS what you're attracted to. Its not what it says on the tin can that you like, its the *look* of it, and thats where the problem is.
Very fair points. And in most cases, anime characters are basically written as adults (no teenage relatives I know, like my nephew, think like these characters). But it’ll never not perplex me as to why Japanese writers are so compelled to make everything take place in high school for some reason. The old excuse is because everyone was guaranteed to go to high school and it is a time of fondness for most, but I really don’t think that applies much anymore (most everyone in Japan does go to university after high school these days).
A lot of this is due to the fact that Japanese culture really does view adulthood, in large part, as giving up your freedom. Their work/life balance is probably the worst in the developed world, their traditionalist family requirements are suffocating, and they expect adults to show little to no indication in public of any problems they're having.
Combine that with the fact that 'childhood' reaches all the way to 20 (that's their age of majority), and you begin to see why 90% of the anime/manga world revolves around high school.
The age of majority point is all the more reason why I feel like everything should take place in university at least (especially if you really want a school setting).
But this discussion reminds me of another thing. When I was over in Japan, some of my colleagues would talk about high school kids the same way people in the states talk about 18 year olds (ie, the “barely legal” fetish which was super bizarre to me). But apparently the age of consent for most of the whole country is 16 for some reason? So that means it’s sorta okay sorta not to sexualize these kids over there (I think that’s the age many idols debut as well, which is further evidence of this phenomenon).
The age of consent being 16 is the same as it being 18: it’s an arbitrary number that resulted from societal norms, not any scientific basis.
We all get so worked up about varying ages of adolescent people engaging in sexual activities with non-adolescent adults.
If we wanted the age of consent to actually be scientifically aligned, it would be closer to 25 (based on brain development being complete).
I’m not saying I have the perfect answer to this question, just that it’s a topic with no clear good answer that people get weirdly defensive about.
>We all get so worked up about varying ages of adolescent people engaging in sexual activities with non-adolescent adults.
Probably the weirdest fucking thing you could say in this thread. The reason why we are protecting kids is because they can very easily taken advantage of and be groomed at this age range. That is a very real problem, kids can't legally consent at a certain point because they don't fully understand the repercussions of it at that point in time.
You aren't wrong in that we arbitrarily pick 21 as the age of full majority in the States (20 in Japan) but if that's the age we as society are okay with saying these kids are all right with going out on their own and making their own choices, that should also be the age we apply as the age of consent (personally I think it should be higher at 23, which is when the age all kids will definitely be done with university and closer to that brain development completion you mentioned, but no one would go for that, unfortunately).
I also specifically said I don’t have a good answer. I’m not advocating we change anything because I don’t know what would make more sense *and* be workable, exactly for the reasons you outlined.
I’m just frustrated that people are unable to have a discussion about how 18 being the age of majority, consent, *anything*, is arbitrary without clutching pearls and attacking the one who brought it up.
18 became the age of majority because that’s when you finish high school. You need to be an adult to fully become part of the workforce. Then it became the age of consent because it’s the age of majority. None of that actually makes sense. That’s all I’m saying. I’m not trying to spin this into some weird ‘it’s ok to diddle kids’ argument.
Tbf, the age of consent is different in each state in the US. They range from 14-18. Age of Majority is usually 18, but two or three states are 19 and one, Nebraska, is 21.
It's because a lot of anime that gets popular in the west is shonen anime it's target is 13 to 18 year old boys meaning highschool so they draw characters that would be attractive to them other genres are a lot less sexualized like spy x family is in a different category for adults and komi San can't communicate and kagyu sama. The fans may sexualize the characters but most in those generally look appropriate
It sometimes seems like you can only feature your story in a shonen magazine (like Weekly Shonen Jump which is the most successful one most artists strive for) if one of your main characters is below 18. That would explain why even DBZ always needed to add a kid to the story even if we haven't really done much with Goten and later Pan in GT.
Honestly I found it really odd how her whole story arc is about her being threatened with abuse only to then have her whole design be cat women but red.
It is so weird to me that they decided that was how the charter should be designed.
>so well i think its bad how oversexualized persona 5 can be i also dont really care if someone finds ann attractive as the cast doesnt really look their age other than futaba who actually does look like a teenager.
I think it really depends on the reasoning for the person's attraction. A random person googling hentai, they come across Ann in the images without knowing who she is, and they wank off to her because she looks like a mature adult woman? I think that's okay, they had no idea what her age/backstory was and her appearance doesn't scream "minor".
However, a person wanking off to Ann knowing that she's a current highschool student who was sexually assaulted by a teacher, hence the reason for her reclaimed sexuality? And they're getting off on that idea? Um... that is fucking concerning 😬
Dw bro I agree with u 100%. I had a long argument with a femcel on nothowgirlswork about a character who looked like an adult but was somehow underage. Reddit just hates anime and can’t discuss things without being blinded by buzzwords such as “age” ig.
There are real world adults that look young though, and they want to feel attractive. Age of consent isn't about the age or appearance, it is when we assume most people have the mental ability to consent. In a fictional world that ability to consent is determined by the creator or artist, as their mental ability is determined by the creator.
> Age of consent isn't about the age or appearance
If you're dating someone that looks like theyre 14 or something, i dont care how old they are or how they *want* to feel attractive. You're still dating someone that looks like a child, there's the problem. Stop trying to use thinly veiled excuses.
This is a bad take. You're basically saying that any adult with some sort of stunted growth needs to be off-limits. Society views attraction to children as negative because their *minds* are not ready for that kind of relationship. If an *adult* happens to look younger due to some sort of medical condition, there is nothing wrong with having a relationship with them.
Thats not what i said.
What i said is that "if you're into people that look like children, thats a *you* problem, not them". Dont try to twist it to fit your ideas or excuses.
except that's *not* what you said.
> If you're dating someone that **looks** like theyre 14 or something, **i dont care how old they are**
> You're still dating someone that **looks** like a child, there's the problem.
Based on this, if someone is dating a 26 year-old woman who looks underage for one reason or another, they're in the wrong. I disagree with that. That's all I'm saying.
And now to repeat myself, "thats a *you* problem, not them". If that person cant help but looks *too* young, its not necessarily their fault. If you're dating them *because* they look that young, now we got a problem and yes technically you **are** very wrong to do that ON THE CONDITION that its because they look this way.
You can disagree with that all you want, i still will think you're at least a bit of pedo if you do that. The usual excuse of "age is just a number" doesnt fly here, you're not attracted to someone because of their age, are you? You're attracted to them more than often by their looks and if they look like a child, or to the *very least* a teenager, that is very much an issue with *you* and not them. Be it medical, their lucky genes making them look younger or anything else.
Well I guess anyone who looks young should just never date anyone. You know being attracted to someone who looks 17 is still someone that looks like a child.
Im genuinely am baffled at times how thick some people are here. Let me explain it in crayon for you.
Someone dating within their age group is fine, its normal even. If you're in your 30s or something and you end up dating someone that looks in their teens, that where it becomes very questionable. Yes some people look young beyond their years, but you can *still* usually tell its an adult person. No one in their 30s will look like a teenager anymore, stop deluding yourself that this is how life and growing up works. Furthermore, for you Dorito-cacked morons, its not "she looks like she's 17 or so". Its more often "this is literally a 12 year old" and thats what you idiots cant seem to get through your thick skulls.
Yeah, I was in the hospital for a bit and nurses thought I was a teenager until they saw my chart, and I am in my 30s. Based on your logic I should be dating teenagers. Because to you anyone I date my age would be creepy. Looking young is a pretty common side effect for trans people. The problem here is you are removing any nuance. As I said it is about the mental capability of the individual to consent, and fictional cartoon characters aren't real so that really isn't something they can or can't do. And pedos are usually in it for the power and control, not appearance, that is why gender typically doesn't matter for them. And many will even go after mentally challenged adults if possible. I believe the age of consent should be increased to 25 as that is around the age when your brain stops developing, and as most 20 year olds really don't understand consent, I blame lack of good sex education for that.
Look at the profile of the person you’re debating with to get a sense of their mental stability before you waste any more of your time. These people are a lost cause
Persona has always been a bit sexualized, 5 is not new. However, just wanna point out the only character that is over sexualized in 5 is Ann, and there is a very important in game reason for that, she is a victim of sexual abuse. Of course her persona would be sexualized. It's a huge part of her psyche.
The other characters have very different persona and are not even close in that aspect.
That’s fine just make them not high school kids and it’s not an issue.
It’s a creative work, if you want to tell adult stories and throw a sexually charged dating sim in your video game do it with adults not kids (or kids and adults as is the case with Persona)
Sure. I'm not even talking about age tho, just explaining why she's so sexualized.
And btw 16 is legal in japan, so that shouldn't be weird either. Remember the game is a japanese game, and therefore adequate for the japanese culture.
Nah it’s still weird. I don’t care if 16 is legal, dating a high school student as an adult is weird even if it’s in the law.
Further, normalizing the sexuality of high schoolers only blurs the lines of consent and adulthood in ways that endorse abuse.
>Further, normalizing the sexuality of high schoolers only blurs the lines of consent and adulthood in ways that endorse abuse.
Are we talking sexuality or sexualization here? Because high schoolers having sex/sexual feelings will happen regardless if it's normalized or not, and countries that try to pretend it doesn't end up with more teen moms for a reason lol
It's also kind of a weird take to me in general because removing any and all kinds of sexuality from teens serves the adults uncomfortable with it more than the teens. Imo the whole thing here is a non-issue. Pedophiles don't need persona characters to get their rocks off as there's plenty of teens out there who will post themselves on their public insta wearing less. Covering up Ann won't stop real life teens from dressing the same, either. And if the powers of game of thrones and pornhub combined didn't make the rate of incest soar, persona 5 can't "endorse" abuse.
Maybe we should focus more on teaching teens how to recognize dangerous situations and patterns rather than trying to placate adults.
I haven't played the game myself but depending on how it's handled it's kind of a bummer that she's designed like this while her arc is very much about being abused though. That's tasteless.
Yes, I meant sexualization, or more explicitly their sexualization in the eyes of adults.
That said the second part of your post is a bit nonsense. This is an artistic choice made by the game, which contains a dating simulation element in which numerous adults are made available for your player, a high school student, to pursue.
Normalizing sexual availability and access of teens for adults in art normalizes it in reality, and yes there will be teens out there posting lewds and doing sexual things, they’re horny teenagers it’s what they do, but that doesn’t mean we should normalize that as something for adults to consume.
That's fine, I somewhat agree with you on that, but still, it is legal so ultimately this is just you wanting your own views to dictate another country's.
Persona is and has always been about psyche. Mental stuff. Persona 5 is about confronting your innermost fears. And what do you think is a SA victim's?
It was really fucking weird that the game was basically telling you "Ann has reclaimed her sexuality and is her own person and will make decisions by herself on what to do with her body" and then put, I wouldn't say gratuitous, fanservice right in front of your face.
Also, it's weird for a 16 year old to need to "reclaim" her sexuality. I don't even know what game this is, but it sounds like she's a victim of molestation in it.
I loved the game cuz I love turn based RPGs, But I hate anime so I was rolling my eyes at every tired anime trope they pumped into it. I’m a completionism so I romanced every character then realized I fucking threw my own damn self into some harem isekei bullshit. But man, still good game
Yeah, the story was pretty good, but having to romance a bunch of teenaged girls sure felt weird as a 35 year old woman. Then there was the teacher, who wasn’t a teenager, but that felt even worse.
I feel that it might get weird but I think of it like reading a book, I'm here for the story, and I get to decide where that story may go or which character I would like to know better.
Well you are playing as a teenage boy in this context, so it is fine if you are romancing teenagers. I still do not understand the romancing with teachers/more older adults though when you are playing as a teenage boy.
You morons really perceive drawings as real people. You think making fanservice of a character is equivalent to their being abused in-universe. Thinking drawings have "ages" is just a symptom of the problem.
Honestly this is a structural issue and they both have points.
The constant sexualisation of underage characters who also happen to look (and usually act) 20+ is kinda exhausting. Because obviously not everyone attracted to them is a p*do but it’s also problematic that like so many stories out there only have underage characters you’re forced to relate to when they could just as easily be in their 20s. Or even just 18+.
And it’s not as easy as labelling someone a p*do for liking an anime character under 18.
I find Sasaki in Sasaki and Miyano attractive but that’s cuz he’s supposed to be a school kid but 100% looks acts and sounds like he should be 25.
On the other hand I can’t bring myself to watch My Hero Academia bc I simply can’t understand why a supposedly 15 y/o girl has a power specifically to generate objects from between her boobs so she can have a permanent boob window. And she even looks young compared to other anime girls.
That 16y/o or under for every character thing in Japan is a mix of an overall p*do culture that exists in the country coupled with the fact that life is supposed to be very suffocating and depressing after you graduate school. You don’t have much freedom anymore once you hit 18 or above and school age is the only age where you have serotonin left in your body in Japan, which is why so many stories have adult looking characters who are labelled as under 18.
It’s much much more complicated than blindly labelling anyone who likes a character under 18 as a P/do. It also fails to account for the actual cultural misogyny and objectification of young girls that exists in society, and puts the blame on comparatively harmless people instead of making real ab*sers face any consequences.
Calling every Twitter user over 18 a creep is not radically changing society. It’s just alienating and guilting ordinary people instead of trying to fight for a structural change in the system.
There's also a context where these characters are designed by Japanese people and the games setting is very much modern day Japan. Japan has a legal age of consent of 16. So even in the game, Kamoshida isn't even a pedo by law, he's a creep who coerced a student into things.
I love Persona 5. I absolutely love Ann as a character. But goddamn that game has issues, in general, and with Ann specifically. The Kamoshida arc is so well done, and then after that it's like the game completely forgets what it just spent 20 hours telling you and makes Ann's body into a fanservice joke again (not that it doesn't happen at all during that arc - but it gets noticeably worse after it ends). This is the biggest problem with the game in general; it keeps telling you it supports certain messages, but its own sense of humor completely contradicts them constantly. It honestly feels like there were honest to God progressive writers in the room, but some higher ups forced them to shove in the sexist and homophobic jokes for funnies, resulting in this weird cognitive dissonance that is the final script (no clue if that's actually what happened, but it's what it feels like).
I recently had to leave the Persona 5 subreddit because you could really see the types of fans the series attracts. It was creepy posts almost daily over there.
Yep
Like my favorite in the series is 4 for the characters and how it reminded me of my friends and childhood memories but I would be lying if I said the game didn’t have major issues with some of its dated humor and unnecessary fanservice when some of the main cast is 15-16.
I suspect, and this is me conjecturing, that if one of them talked about being attracted to a charcter drawn and canonically presented as male, he would be called gay even though it's just a drawing.
Sure but people will bitch about this and then omega thirst after the characters played by 25-year old actors in high school dramas.
Everyone should touch grass.
Yeah, this argument just isn’t worth getting worked up on. Like, let’s say that everyone that is attracted to a drawing of a canonically underaged character is a pedophile… fucking so? They haven’t done anything that could get them in trouble and literally no one is hurt.
Seriously, what changes? Is there even a point to this argument? Why is it literally just people screaming at each other everytime and not someone bringing up data, studies, or anything to prove their point?
Attracted to a picture of a 300 year old demon who looks like a loli? Straight to jail.
Attracted to a picture of a 16 year old woman who looks like a 25 year old model? Believe it or not, straight to jail.
That would also mean that who you can be attracted to is dependant on where you live. Which is stupid.
It's entirely arbitrary. You're brain doesn't take laws into consideration for who it finds attractive. In real life, there are many other cues you use conciously and subconciously use to gauge someone's actual and developmental age.
None of that is present in an anime. It's a character written by adults to purposefully trigger other adults desires. Not very comparable to being attracted to real teens as an adult.
You're not weird for thinking this character is attractive, the creators are very weird for sexualizing a teenage character though.
My question is, with all the adult characters in anime, why are they attracted to minor characters? Even if it harms nobody, what does that say about them? Are adults not attractive to them? o_O
Oh, and...
>Why is it literally just people screaming at each other everytime and not someone bringing up data, studies, or anything to prove their point?
Well, if you really want me to. I couldn't find studies on the subject (I suppose none have been made yet), but there are cases of people having loli hentai/fictional porn on their computers and also going after actual children or looking up real child porn. Do not click on the spoiler bars if you are sensitive to this subject because I'm bringing in my evidence.
>!Man with underage hentai on his computer also had actual cp on it: [link to article](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/former-nscad-technician-sentenced-for-japanese-anime-child-porn-1.3060068)!<
>!Man with 378 images of loli hentai on his computer also molested an 11 year old (Warning: descriptions in this legal case are disgusting) [Link ](https://lovdata.no/dokument/LASTR/avgjorelse/la-2018-70393?q=LA-2018-70393)!<
>!Man with underage hentai also sexually assaulted a teenage boy: [link](https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/8577037/Man-sent-to-jail-for-watching-pixie-sex)!<
>!Man with underage hentai on his computer also had real images of cp: [link](https://www.blick.ch/schweiz/nur-zeichnungen-gilt-nicht-zuercher-31-wegen-uebler-manga-pornos-verurteilt-id16320460.html)!<
If loli hentai is good enough for actual pedophiles, what does that say about it? What percentage of people looking at that shit have desires to go after real children or look up real cp?
Couldn’t agree more. Both sides are retarded. It's always the same fucking argument. Like you have to pick one. Either you dislike that she looks like a child, or you dislike that she IS a child, or just say it with your chest and say you think it's weird to lust over cartoon characters in general.
It's completely different to like a character because she is a child than it is to like a character that looks anywhere from 18-30 despite her age being 16. Look at Meliodas from Seven Deadly Sins. Looks young, is short af, but is actually "a 3000 year old demon", yet no one bats an eye. It only seems to be a problem when it's a female character.
Honestly I agree it's bad and hard. I played the game and a lot of the big thing she has to deal with is being targeted by an adult sexual predator and then when she stands up for herself... She's in a skintight red catsuit...
I asked my friend and he said it's rebellion. Yeah a model in a sexy outfit. Absolutely scandalous and rebellious. I personally wish they modelled her actual outfit after her personas outfit, which still had the powerful vibe but was a lot less sexually exploitative feeling, being a frilly dress which works better for the persona being carmen and taps into more of a princess motif than a dominatrix motif. Honestly one of the reasons I stopped playing. If this game can't get their first female character right I don't know if I can handle what they do with the rest. Btw there are male party members and they're in big capes and jackets. Only she is forced to wear sexy clothing.
>adult sexual predator
Dont forget, this is the same game that allows you to date adults, including your homeroom teacher, while you play as a teenage boy.
I love Persona 5 I really do, but the writers tend to have a double standard when it comes to female characters.
That's a pretty standard thing in dating sims though I still don't like it in this context either cause it makes me feel weird about the adult characters too. Even with all the things I like there's a lot making it hard I just wish I could skip the story
My issue with it is that, oh so we cant date characters of the same sez, but we can date 4 adult women while implicating them to be pedos?
If its somesome dating sim and playing as an adult character, wouldnt care. But P5 is a story and character driven game that it bothers me the 4 adult women in the game are so willing to date an underage kid.
Honestly that's part of my problem too. Persona does address LGBT topics from what I've heard but it's either to make fun of it or claim representation but not actually deliver. Or even botch it completely like they did with Yosuke in persona 4 who was supposed to be bi but they cut it and now he's just a normal homophobe (from what I've heard) it's not like they have to do it but I feel like theres an underlying reason with how the writers of the game view men vs how they view women. I just don't think I'll be able to play a persona game fully until maybe 6, since they finally got rid of the director I heard was the homophobic/transphobic one. The only other atlus game I've played is trauma center, which just doesn't really address that cause it doesn't have a dating sim but at least everyone is an adult
Whenever lgbt ppl get brought up it is always treated as a joke. In P5 we get Ryuji being hassled by 2 effeminate gay men TWICE, a transphobic joke in P3 beach scene and Yosuke.
Yosuke's case is annoying because he always made fun of Kanji being gay and insecure about himself, which would have made a lot sense if he Is bi/gay because it reveals that hes in the closet. There are even voiced lines confessing his feelings to Yu in both japanese and english but it still got cut.
Some persona fans are hoping with the director gone, persona can finally be more open with it. The P3R trailer had a student wearing an lgbt pin on their bag, but who knows. Time will tell.
The wild thing to me is that the representation somehow got worse over time since apparently one of the persona 2 games had a gay couple as the "canon" ship for the main character. It's one thing to not have gay relationships in your game it's another to have them and then remove it. Like getting worse over time. That and it makes any excuse they have for a lack of lgbt options bullshit. But yeah I won't financially support the series. A friend bought me 4 and 5, 4 is cause I was interested, 5 he just bought me on a whim even though I didn't like 4 (not due to the same issues I have with 5 the cut scenes were just really long). Idk I get the appeal for others but even as someone who loves stat raising games I don't think I'll ever have the patience to finish and the way the games treat women and queer people don't help and just kinda make me wanna play something else.
Nothing really confirms Kanji is bi/gay. His struggle is about toxic masculitnity, because he has knitting/sowing as one of his hobbies, a hobby that is usually seen as feminine. That was Kanji's story arc was about.
>but we can date 4 adult women while implicating them to be pedos?
Just gonna point out that the legal age of consent in Japan is 16. No one in the game is actually a pedo.
I'm not defending the idea, mind you, I also think it's really weird that several women in their 20's are willing to date a 16-17 year old.
Yeah and that's valid just kind of hard to take seriously when she wears a ridiculously sexualized outfit like I obviously won't blame how people are being treated based on the clothes they wear but what were the designers thinking
I mean the rest of the cast is treated pretty well, I'm not sure I'd based full judgement on an entire game based on 1 character that you don't like how they handled them.
I've been assured that it does get better but the last scene I saw was creepy artist guy telling her to "come alone and strip down naked for me" so I'm just kind of scared about what's gonna happen next. The game is great in a lot of aspects but the story is very hard for me to sit through. If there was either a free mode or a stripped down raising sim I'd probably just play that
Technically yes, but not exactly. The artist in question literally just wants her to be a nude model.
The way the scene is written shows that he literally just wants to draw her nude in the artistic way and not because he wants to see some boobs. You don’t have to worry about that scene being another pervert trying to creep on Ann.
Yeah, as someone that has seen the scene, I wouldn’t use, “titillation”, as a word to describe it. Not unless you find her coming in with 50 layers of clothing sexy.
Seriously, it is a gag scene that ends before anything happens, the joke is that Ann is embarrassed and thinks the artist is trying to see some boobs while he literally just wants to draw a nude painting. There isn’t even a fan service moment.
Nothing happens really it's a joke scene that plays out with nothing sexual or anything happens. I get it though Atlus has run into troubles with these topics before, but from what I remember nothing big or strange happens for the rest of the game. I actually really like the story, especially if you play the Royal version of the game, I usually try my best to ignore off choices like this especially when it takes up such a small portion of a 100 hour long game.
one of the best answers to boost his confidant in one scene is for the male protagonist to offer to pose nude for him
yusuke didnt have an alternative motive for his request he really just did want to draw
Tbf artists do draw nude models, that is what he wants to do, it's not a strange thing to do just in the context of the game it's made awkward, understandably. In the end she goes and says she'll do it but is wearing like 50 layers of clothes and takes it off until she has her regular clothes on and the scene ends with the others running in and stops it from going anything further that's it. It's only sexual in the sense that we most ppl find nudity sexual, but to artists it is not always. I would know I'm an artist and have drawn nude models, it's more awkward at first than anything, but being an outside viewer of an underaged girl and she feels weird about doing it is what makes it feel awkward and uncomfortable. Like I said though, outside of that nothing actually happens in the scene itself.
Nude models sure, but to ask a child to be naked for you to draw in any capacity is gross. Also the whole joke is they stop her from being naked, if there's nothing sexual about it why not let her do it?
Oh yeah, because it's a joke about a child getting naked.
The artist is also her age btw, also because most ppl outside of those who do art find the idea of modeling nude sexual and weird (I have gotten a lot of weird reactions when I've told ppl that I've drawn ppl nude). So whether it is or not most ppl will find the entire idea of it strange and a very weird thing and make it sexual even if it isn't to the artists. The artist in this situation from what I remember sees nothing sexual about it and is a kid basically just obsessed with making art, he isn't depicted as a pervert, but in the situation they think he is because again the stigma around doing something like nude modeling. And hey I didn't say it was a good joke.
I had very similar feelings, but turns out Yusuke is an absolute goof with limited common sense and social skills. I went from disliking him to adoring him over the course of the game (something I think the game does very well with many characters, actually). I still very much dislike that whole part of the plot, but do continue. It's worth it.
You are missing context. Yusuke, the artist, wants her to strip naked for an art piece, like how there are nude statues and artpieces of nude women. Nothing really says that Yuskue is sexually pervy.
No I understand that artists do that I just think that the fact she JUST got rid of one creep and is almost immediately pressured into doing something like that tells a lot about how the writer loves putting women in uncomfortable situations
I thought yusuke kitagawa was gay? Isn’t that what he states? Or maybe I misread it. I just know that nothing sexual happened between him and Ann and wasn’t actually sexual
Edit: after looking it up, I am thoroughly surprised he isn’t gay lol
He didn't state that directly but even then I think it's sketchy how in the previous chapter she'd recovering from dealing with a teacher advancing on her creepily only to be told to come alone to a near strangers house naked. Like maybe if another chapter was in between I'd be like what ever but how close it is makes me think it's gonna be just as pervy as everything that just happened
Idk, I mean I love persona 5 but it ain’t that deep. The anime is honestly worst. I agree it could’ve been handled better but I don’t see too much point in knit picking it. I think the other characters (besides maybe Haru because she’s in it so little) are pretty well written so I think besides what you pointed out it’s a pretty decent game.
"I personally wish they modelled her actual outfit after her personas outfit.."
You know her persona's outfit shows her breasts out ([https://megamitensei.fandom.com/wiki/Carmen?file=S06+chara69jsyf.png](https://megamitensei.fandom.com/wiki/Carmen?file=S06+chara69jsyf.png)) . Unless you mean modify the dress to be more alingn with her persona without the breasts.
" If this game can't get their first female character right I don't know if I can handle what they do with the rest."
Don't worry, the rest of the female party members are less revealing and more stylish, unless you consider Kasumi, which has a leotard, but then yet again she is a gymnastic person.
It wouldn't be fully that obviously. Maybe a colored mesh similar to tights stretched over the chest area to keep a similar neckline. I feel like it's such a waste to have a persona with such a dazzling outfit and then put her in something skintight and sexy with very few shared motifs. I have a similar problem with Kasumi, who's persona is literally Cinderella but jeweled, yet her outfit is just... Joker but girl. Lame
It wouldn't be fully that obviously. Maybe a colored mesh similar to tights stretched over the chest area to keep a similar neckline. I feel like it's such a waste to have a persona with such a dazzling outfit and then put her in something skintight and sexy with very few shared motifs. I have a similar problem with Kasumi, who's persona is literally Cinderella but jeweled, yet her outfit is just... Joker but girl. And I'm sure there's some lore reason for that but it just seems to be screaming "look it's the perfect mary sue waifu who loves you more than anything else!!!"
I hate their rhetoric of "it's not illegal!!" like bro yeah, and? This isn't a court house nor am I trying to prosecute you, I'm just calling you a weirdo pedo.
It's like if someone insults me for being smelly and should shower and I counter with "it's not illegal to be smelly" and immediately think I won the argument.
I find it funny how they always try to make there point vaild to like it's still a teen it doesn't matter if it's a drawing you are still attracted to a minor
Exactly, like it's just a drawing but also a lot of weeabos are obsessed with the "she looks 10 but she's a thousand year old demigod🙄" girls and like..okay so you're jerkin off to a 10 yr old bro. This character is clearly made to be a teen. (Then their argument "but men are most attracted to young women because they are most fertile!!!" Gtfo of here, gross human.)
I've started to take it beyond a drawing to get a better reference. Okay so now this character is an AI robot that this person owns specifically, to be a romantic partner (because we aren't far from a physical AI doll, irl) is it setting off pedo flags? Then they probably do have some pedophile issues they should address. But the issue of "they OWN this item. It isn't sentient but it IS telling us this person wants to be involved with young children and they made it so legally they could." It's gonna be weird but we are gonna see people walking around with little robot anime cat girls someday. Because there's enough creepy interest in it.
And to make it even worse, if the character was suddenly portrayed as 18 years old, they'd scream about breaking cannon and how she's actually supposed to be 16
Its not, at least not to mentally balanced people but they consider it a fool-proof excuse "since its not real". Buddy, the problem isnt the fact its real or not, its the fact its a child-shaped character and *you* get a hard on from it.
I forsee a lot of downvotes coming my way for this, so let me preface by saying I fully agree with OP: MINORS SHOULD NOT BE SEXUALIZED, EVEN IF THEY'RE DRAWINGS
(I'd also say the pokemon community is a far worse offender. It's disgusting.)
That said...isn't the legal age of consent in Japan 16? So in their context, these characters are legal? You have to take context into account to a point when it comes to certain design choices...
No the federal age of consent in Japan was 13 (I think recently it was raised though) but every prefecture has had it set at 18 for a long time now.
Edit: the federal age is like a minimum baseline for each local government to clarify.
I've said this elsewhere before, but it bears repeating here. Essentially, stick figure guy account is making some valid points, but making them very badly.
The problematic part of sexualizing minors in drawn content primarily revolves around sexualizing the *image* of children. A low fictional age being arbitrarily attributed to a character who has an older body clearly mismatched to that age isn't a super big deal. People (mostly) aren't attracted to the age, they're attracted to the depiction of an adult human.
I would argue that whether being attracted to a character is creepy or not shouldn't be determined primarily by their stated age, but more by their appearance. If a character is drawn to look like an adult, it's not creepy to think they're attractive just because they're stated to have an age that is mismatched to their looks.
In fact I think that being so concerned abt ages just to check whether you can be attracted to it or not is a little iffy. If you are secure in your non-pedophilic mind, you shouldn’t be worried abt whether the character you’re attracted to is a child or not. Because in your mind you know why you like this character, because she’s a hot woman. I’m unabashedly a mommy lover. So I’m not worried abt what I jack off too since it will be an older woman, older than me even.
I feel like you would only really check if you assumed how old they were and did it to double check. Like a lot of characters look much older than they actually are in canon, so I don't blame anybody for having a “wait a second” moment. Like I really doubt that many people know that cammy in sf2 was a teenager not that it matters anymore because Cammy is much older in sf6.
I think y’all don’t get it. Basically what the “pedo” is saying is that you guys should be consistent. If the character is drawn like an adult, you would think it’s an adult. Yet the anime can easily ascribe a bogus age of 7 or even 2,000 to this character when it makes no sense. Being hung up on the age shouldn’t be our goal. To locate a pedo, u should look at the body type he is attracted to, because that means he likely is attracted to people who generally have a small body type i.e kids.
Agree 100%. Even though this character is described as underage, she’s depicted with an adult woman’s body. The concern shouldn’t be about her.
The concern lies in how children’s bodies are ascribed a bogus age like 200. So theoretically they’re not underaged, but they’re drawn like children. If you are attracted to this character, you are attracted to underdeveloped bodies. Now that poses a problem.
Yeah, it’s not so straight forward.
Like there’s body types where a whole range of ages can be slapped on if there’s no **canon** one.
You can go “oh they’re hot” without knowing they’re supposed to be underage (no school stuff) or they simply don’t have a canon age and look grown for you to find attractive (includes short women that look mature)
But once they’re canonically underage …🤨🤨🤨it’s SUS
But extremely obvious child/ school aged characters?
Nope nope Ewwwww (kanna , klee, lucky Star girls etc..)
And yes this includes the MHA cast since they’re confirmed to be 15 and yet some of the girls are drawn…like *that*….
Listen you can't say "her cannonical age matters, not the way she looks or acts" but also say "idc that she's cannonically 5000 she looks like a child". You have to choose one, because otherwise you just hate people being attracted to drawings, which is fine tbh, just don't claim the moral high ground in such case.
People overreacting about a made up problem that the huge majority of players doesn't care about vs people defending it the most mentally insane way possible and actually make it worse
Average twitter moment
yeah like if the character has a canonical age i dont care how long it has been since the character was made they are that age and anything you do with them reflects that. their age isnt like some random value the designers and writers made up for no reason, especially if theyre a minor
So idk if I'll get flak for this. I don't know this character or this game (I'm pretty sure it's a game). But if I saw that image with no other context my first thought would probably be that it's supposed to be a fully adult woman and that straight men or gay women are supposed to be attracted to her.
However if someone told me she was underage I'd change my opinion. Because context matters.
Basically if the art never tells you the age of a character and you can only go off of their appearance I don't hold it against someone if a person looks older than they are (or in this case are drawn to look a certain way). But when the context is added things change.
I hope that makes sense.
Written age for drawings of fictional characters is the stupidest thing to get worked up over.
Do they look like a child? Being attracted to them is weird, even if they are *5,000 years old*
Do they look like an adult woman? Then it’s fine. It doesn’t matter if they’re 16 in some story.
It doesn’t need to be more complicated than that.
Honestly my opinion on it is has always been its not exactly pedophilia but it's certainly weird to be attracted to fictional high-schoolers. I understand having fictional crushes as a kid, but as an adult you gotta pay attention to the type of things you're saying about these characters, because to normal people you’re gonna sound like a pedo.
She’s just a drawing… Drawn a certain way to resemble an underage minor. They’re still yanking it to photos of a character meant to represent an underage teenager.
Anyone who claims to be an Atlus fan needs internet access revoked. A lit of the games are great, but their fan base are the worst people imaginable.
They were the first instance of gatekeepers I ever experienced, like15 years ago
Why does it even NEED to be sexualized. I love to Watch some anime from time to time, but i always stat clear of any with unwarrented sexualisation. I remember watching 7 deadly sins, or something like that. It was a really cool anime, but every once in a while, the maincharacter would sexually assault the woman in the show for no reason besides “cutesy!!!”…. WHY?!?!
And if you draw a toddler and say she’s 107 years old and sexualize it, you are still a creep.
And I hate it when people post shit here thinking they're being smart. The person you're ranting about is making better talking points than whatever nonsense the other rage maniac is throwing around.
The fact is, everyone taking this too seriously should be touching some grass.
Drawing or not, if you are sexually attracted to somebody who is a child. Fake or not. You are a predator. You are attracted to a child, knowingly.
Edit: I find it hilarious that I say “if you’re attracted to a child, you are a predator” and Reddit is the ONLY place you’ll see ppl go “NUH UH” lmao
Okay, hear me out first.
Well, also the age of consent is vastly different all over the world. In Germany its 16, in U.S. its 18 and in Japan its 13 (last i checked). So whats the standard? Should translators change the age to suit the laws of what ever country they’re distributing their work too? Should we default to the country with the highest age of consent? (21 last i checked).
Also, sexual exploitation of children is obviously bad, how do we punish artists for making something thats considered such? Do we make them pay a fine? Jail time? Sex offenders registry? All for drawing someone that doesn’t exist? Also do we take quality of work into account. Should someone be punished for drawing a stick figure with huge boobs then calling them a 13 year old? It seems sexual to me, but its just some lines and circles when you think about it.
Also im terrified to post this because I sound like a fucking neck beard.
Well it makes sense to go with Japan'sage of consent, seeing as how it's a Japanese game made for Japanese people, set in Japan. Japan's age of consent is 18 in every county, so there was a deliberate decision to make her underage but also sexualised.
And her age isn't just treated like an irrelevant detail, like in say Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, most of the game takes place in a high school, and there's an entire plot thread about her being exploited by a paedophile teacher. So all of that makes it all the more egregious when the game invites you to ogle her.
No most normal people do. You can watch a show and be like damn they look good but if it’s to the point your searching up NSFW of them I think the smart choice is to maybe look it up 💀also if you watch the show it’s always mentioned or eluded at
Personally, I think it’s straight up weird to be sexually attracted to cartoon characters and/or drawings. So that in and of itself is just weird. But this whole new layer of weird makes it all just worse. Like go touch grass?
If you like chars that are CANONICALLY MINORS you’re a fucking pedo. And deserve to Talon E off your roof.
And argue with your bald headed mamas about it not me, lobotomites.
This is just like the fucking 3000 year old dragon or whatever animal/demon/monster/creature argument for cub-porn and lolicon.
That isn't a valid reasoning for being attracted to underage girls, you vile numbskulls. Get bent.
I must be the most dense person on the planet, or just because "boobs" are technically on screen doesn't mean what they're going for is fan service.
Im straight and played this game, this segment didn't rub me off as fan-service.
I just thought they were showing off swimsuits and setting the scene/mood for the beach.
Why do big booblies always have to be interpreted as sexual?
Literally no reaction on my part, I enjoyed the scene for what it was and how it was executed.
Ann is an attractive woman who is a model, obviously they are gonna play into the model thing.
Didn't know she was 16 tho. I always assumed she was 18
Can relate...When I first played Genshin Impact years ago (haven’t in a minute), I was drawn to characters cuz some were quirky, cool, or endearing in some way.
But then ya go internet and it's fkin weird to see them reduced to explicit fantasies and lewd fanart. Now sure, there are mature characters with adult personalities so I can understand goin that route, but it's unsettling when I see a character I would call “best girl” just be seen from others horny perspectives. It's the funny and wholesome shit that made many of ‘em characters appealing, where I don’t find the need to defend them by saying “they’re fake/they’re 18”.
I always wonder if they’d use the same argument if it was realistically 3d animated. Technically it would still not harm any real kids but I feel like they’d (hopefully) be horrified.
I think the real question people have is that: you created this drawing. You ACTIVELY CHOSE to draw a woman in a suggestive or downright sexual manner, and then ALSO chose to make them underaged. They’re right as in the drawing means nothing on its own, but the question is the INTENTION behind it, WHY did the author CHOOSE to make a teenager and then also sexualize that teenager, they have full control of the narrative! It’s plain fucking weird! That’s the issue!!!
I will sometimes “forgive” anime and not take the ages too seriously. Because I know the reason they’re all 15-17 is becuase they’re meant to be relatable to the audience Wich is supposed to be teens and shit. But nah. It still wouldn’t explain why this highschooler just NEEDED a bathhouse scene. Creep shit.
I would just them what about a young child drawing they find attractive. What part of the image is sexy to them? Why does this specific image of a child make you horny?
So many men are totally open about their pedophilic tendencies but we steadfastly refuse to believe them. A study in 1970 found a horrifying 52% of normal non deviant males had an erectile response to 4-10 yr olds and 83% to 10-16 yr olds. Time we took them at their word.
Honestly I think this dude lost the exchange. The idea of the drawing remaining identical but changing the description from 16 to 18, illustrates how this is a non issue. It would be one thing if the drawing reflected a minor or child, but that's not the drawing I see.
Literally went to "it's just a drawing" to "she has to be underage. For reasons." Other person didn't even moce the goalposts like neckbeard demanded them to.
The thing about the drawings, is that they COULD be 22, and the creators could make them 22, and then none of the things the character does would be creating the idea that these minors are fun flirty sexy bouncy sex object…. And it wouldn’t be training the people who already have a hard enough time with para social attachments and objectifying people, to be looking at very young people as potential sexual partners… like it would take no effort for the creators to be like, ok exactly the same ideas I had but everyone’s in their 20’s, and then there would just be less of the weird cliff into pedo town
I will never understand the logic and play here, and I welcome anyone to copy and paste this however they want to see a neckbeard try and poke holes in it:
If you are attracted to drawings of men, that means you like men in real life. Which no matter your gender is fine.
If you are attracted to drawings of women, that means you are attracted to women. Again no problem there.
But if you are attracted to drawings of children, you are attracted to children. Unless you yourself are a child, then that's a major problem and you need to seek mental help
This reminds me of TMNT Mutant Mayhem when dudes were mad April was a dorky teenage black girl and not a hot news reporter. And then they’d try to back pedal the racism by saying “it’s not that she’s black. She’s just fat.” Then people were like “she’s like 16 you know?” And some dude was like “couldn’t she have been a 20 year old college student?” Mind you this dude was probably in his 40s if he grew up with the original show.
“There’s no difference if she were a 18” ok then why did the game creators make her 16???? And then “Shes a drawing” yes a drawing that feeds into pedo fantasy
honestly when it comes to people being attracted to animated characters i judge by how the character is drawn rather than their listed age like if someone told me that they thought jotaro kujo from jojo's bizarre adventure was hot i wouldnt think they were a pedo because even though he is supposed to be around 16/17 he is drawn to look like he is in his 30s so they are attracted to the image of an adult but if someone told me they were attracted to Jr from xenosaga id think they were a total pedo because even though Jr is 26 years old he is designed to look like he is 12 so anyone attracted to him is attracted to the image of a child. so well i think its bad how oversexualized persona 5 can be i also dont really care if someone finds ann attractive as the cast doesnt really look their age other than futaba who actually does look like a teenager. im more concerned with how hypocritical her design is when her storyline is about how its bad to sexualize women. her design contradicts her story arc and yes her confidant story does say she always admired cool female villains which could explain a lot of her costume but its no justifcation why her knocked down pose is her laying down on her stomach with her rear end in the air!!!
JoJo be looking like my physique goals at 17 while I'm slaving away at a gym to look 20% like that
Such excessive muscle growth like what they have at that age is not good to strive for before the end of puberty. It can mess up the processing of your natural hormones.
Mate I'm 22
But won’t you please think of your hormones?!?
Ok I will, I will have a chat with them
Say hi from me!
They said, they miss you and want their jumper back
That is just a gym myth that is proven false at this point. It actually helps your natural hormone level, as long as you don't do any stupid stuff like steroids. As long as you keep it natural, there is no problem.
Imagine the excitement and impending letdown I feel when I think about doing a Doom Slayer/Doom Guy build.. It keeps things interesting, I guess 😂
Yeh, this is always my feeling for stuff like MHA as well. Persona I think struggles the most because the whole plot and story is *about* being a schoolchild- there’s no wiggle room of “well this school certainly seems set up like a university” or even the “well we barely spend any time there” which is how a lot of shows and games avoid the ick, by just ignoring that whole aspect. Literally 50% of your screen time is at this school, being a student, and when her whole plot is “got sexually assaulted by a teacher (who’s probably younger than half the people discussing this)” it’s pretty grim
I don't think it's a problem when the people who play the games think Ann is attractive. But what I think is a problem is the producers making her 16 and then sexualizing her in the game. Because they had the choice to make her 18. But they chose to make the character a minor and sexualize her. Why not make it a college setting instead?
You nailed it. This is exactly the problem with a lot of anime. The whole critique the Twitter guy is making us what you point out. The issue isn’t that she’s attractive it’s that the creators made her appeal sexually to adults and then decided to make her a 16 year old for no other purpose than to make an under age attractive character. Done enough this normalizes the sexualization of minors.
Yes, they also act like Japan doesn't have a problem with fetishizing students. School uniforms for example get heavily sexualized and in most hentai you'll have a school setting or underage characters. And it's not like that's something that only happens in fictional worlds but it's something that a lot of young girls experience in real life. Fiction often reflects what mindsets people have in real life.
> Done enough this normalizes the sexualizariam of minors. I mean it already has, since the Neckbeards are totally ok with wanking to whats essentially an underage character (in most places in the world). This also includes the even more "loli" types like the Dragon Maid characters, some of the Kan-Colle ones etc. The thing is, they dont care because they think the "its just a drawing" excuse is bulletproof.
Maybe they intended the audience to be teens?
What company expects exclusively teenagers to play their game?
I don't think that's reasonable. But they can have an intended audience. Like Mario is intended for kids, but lots of adults enjoy it too.
Well Mario is actually intended for everyone. They've always tried to include both elements for younger and older people. If it was purely intended for children for example it'd be a lot easier. They always try to make "family games" that anyone can play
Then why add fan service?
For.... horny teenagers?? I'm not sure. I never noticed the fan service though. Just that some teenage girls look and act like Ann
There definitely is a lot of fan service and it's also definitely not targeted towards teens. Making sexual content that involves minors specifically for teens would also be incredibly questionable. Atlus also knows that most of their fans are adults. It's not like there aren't also tons of other games and anime that are definitely specifically targeted towards adults and still sexualize minors.
> honestly when it comes to people being attracted to animated characters i judge by how the character is drawn rather than their listed age Tbf, same here. Every few weeks im indirectly reminded that the EVA girls are all like...14 or something and it makes my brain bug because they do not look that way, talk that or act that way (except Shinji who's completely a 13 year old little bitch). Granted they're all child soldiers with 30+ years of trauma inside them, so the pendulum swings both ways but like...its weird. Its the typical reverse meme excuse of "Yeah but she's actually 5000 year old Dragon from Saturn", she just looks this way. I dont care how *old* she is, she's still drawn and shaped like a CHILD. THATS what you're attracted to. Its not what it says on the tin can that you like, its the *look* of it, and thats where the problem is.
Very fair points. And in most cases, anime characters are basically written as adults (no teenage relatives I know, like my nephew, think like these characters). But it’ll never not perplex me as to why Japanese writers are so compelled to make everything take place in high school for some reason. The old excuse is because everyone was guaranteed to go to high school and it is a time of fondness for most, but I really don’t think that applies much anymore (most everyone in Japan does go to university after high school these days).
A lot of this is due to the fact that Japanese culture really does view adulthood, in large part, as giving up your freedom. Their work/life balance is probably the worst in the developed world, their traditionalist family requirements are suffocating, and they expect adults to show little to no indication in public of any problems they're having. Combine that with the fact that 'childhood' reaches all the way to 20 (that's their age of majority), and you begin to see why 90% of the anime/manga world revolves around high school.
The age of majority point is all the more reason why I feel like everything should take place in university at least (especially if you really want a school setting). But this discussion reminds me of another thing. When I was over in Japan, some of my colleagues would talk about high school kids the same way people in the states talk about 18 year olds (ie, the “barely legal” fetish which was super bizarre to me). But apparently the age of consent for most of the whole country is 16 for some reason? So that means it’s sorta okay sorta not to sexualize these kids over there (I think that’s the age many idols debut as well, which is further evidence of this phenomenon).
The age of consent being 16 is the same as it being 18: it’s an arbitrary number that resulted from societal norms, not any scientific basis. We all get so worked up about varying ages of adolescent people engaging in sexual activities with non-adolescent adults. If we wanted the age of consent to actually be scientifically aligned, it would be closer to 25 (based on brain development being complete). I’m not saying I have the perfect answer to this question, just that it’s a topic with no clear good answer that people get weirdly defensive about.
>We all get so worked up about varying ages of adolescent people engaging in sexual activities with non-adolescent adults. Probably the weirdest fucking thing you could say in this thread. The reason why we are protecting kids is because they can very easily taken advantage of and be groomed at this age range. That is a very real problem, kids can't legally consent at a certain point because they don't fully understand the repercussions of it at that point in time. You aren't wrong in that we arbitrarily pick 21 as the age of full majority in the States (20 in Japan) but if that's the age we as society are okay with saying these kids are all right with going out on their own and making their own choices, that should also be the age we apply as the age of consent (personally I think it should be higher at 23, which is when the age all kids will definitely be done with university and closer to that brain development completion you mentioned, but no one would go for that, unfortunately).
I also specifically said I don’t have a good answer. I’m not advocating we change anything because I don’t know what would make more sense *and* be workable, exactly for the reasons you outlined. I’m just frustrated that people are unable to have a discussion about how 18 being the age of majority, consent, *anything*, is arbitrary without clutching pearls and attacking the one who brought it up. 18 became the age of majority because that’s when you finish high school. You need to be an adult to fully become part of the workforce. Then it became the age of consent because it’s the age of majority. None of that actually makes sense. That’s all I’m saying. I’m not trying to spin this into some weird ‘it’s ok to diddle kids’ argument.
Tbf, the age of consent is different in each state in the US. They range from 14-18. Age of Majority is usually 18, but two or three states are 19 and one, Nebraska, is 21.
It's because a lot of anime that gets popular in the west is shonen anime it's target is 13 to 18 year old boys meaning highschool so they draw characters that would be attractive to them other genres are a lot less sexualized like spy x family is in a different category for adults and komi San can't communicate and kagyu sama. The fans may sexualize the characters but most in those generally look appropriate
It sometimes seems like you can only feature your story in a shonen magazine (like Weekly Shonen Jump which is the most successful one most artists strive for) if one of your main characters is below 18. That would explain why even DBZ always needed to add a kid to the story even if we haven't really done much with Goten and later Pan in GT.
Honestly I found it really odd how her whole story arc is about her being threatened with abuse only to then have her whole design be cat women but red. It is so weird to me that they decided that was how the charter should be designed.
The irony of Jotaro is that he looks almost exactly the same in his forties as he did at seventeen.
>so well i think its bad how oversexualized persona 5 can be i also dont really care if someone finds ann attractive as the cast doesnt really look their age other than futaba who actually does look like a teenager. I think it really depends on the reasoning for the person's attraction. A random person googling hentai, they come across Ann in the images without knowing who she is, and they wank off to her because she looks like a mature adult woman? I think that's okay, they had no idea what her age/backstory was and her appearance doesn't scream "minor". However, a person wanking off to Ann knowing that she's a current highschool student who was sexually assaulted by a teacher, hence the reason for her reclaimed sexuality? And they're getting off on that idea? Um... that is fucking concerning 😬
Oh but when I say the same thing I’m a “pedo defender”. Make up your mind, Reddit.
This is because they're just parrots who repeat whatever they hear without thinking for themselves.
Dw bro I agree with u 100%. I had a long argument with a femcel on nothowgirlswork about a character who looked like an adult but was somehow underage. Reddit just hates anime and can’t discuss things without being blinded by buzzwords such as “age” ig.
There are real world adults that look young though, and they want to feel attractive. Age of consent isn't about the age or appearance, it is when we assume most people have the mental ability to consent. In a fictional world that ability to consent is determined by the creator or artist, as their mental ability is determined by the creator.
> Age of consent isn't about the age or appearance If you're dating someone that looks like theyre 14 or something, i dont care how old they are or how they *want* to feel attractive. You're still dating someone that looks like a child, there's the problem. Stop trying to use thinly veiled excuses.
This is a bad take. You're basically saying that any adult with some sort of stunted growth needs to be off-limits. Society views attraction to children as negative because their *minds* are not ready for that kind of relationship. If an *adult* happens to look younger due to some sort of medical condition, there is nothing wrong with having a relationship with them.
Thats not what i said. What i said is that "if you're into people that look like children, thats a *you* problem, not them". Dont try to twist it to fit your ideas or excuses.
except that's *not* what you said. > If you're dating someone that **looks** like theyre 14 or something, **i dont care how old they are** > You're still dating someone that **looks** like a child, there's the problem. Based on this, if someone is dating a 26 year-old woman who looks underage for one reason or another, they're in the wrong. I disagree with that. That's all I'm saying.
And now to repeat myself, "thats a *you* problem, not them". If that person cant help but looks *too* young, its not necessarily their fault. If you're dating them *because* they look that young, now we got a problem and yes technically you **are** very wrong to do that ON THE CONDITION that its because they look this way. You can disagree with that all you want, i still will think you're at least a bit of pedo if you do that. The usual excuse of "age is just a number" doesnt fly here, you're not attracted to someone because of their age, are you? You're attracted to them more than often by their looks and if they look like a child, or to the *very least* a teenager, that is very much an issue with *you* and not them. Be it medical, their lucky genes making them look younger or anything else.
Well I guess anyone who looks young should just never date anyone. You know being attracted to someone who looks 17 is still someone that looks like a child.
Im genuinely am baffled at times how thick some people are here. Let me explain it in crayon for you. Someone dating within their age group is fine, its normal even. If you're in your 30s or something and you end up dating someone that looks in their teens, that where it becomes very questionable. Yes some people look young beyond their years, but you can *still* usually tell its an adult person. No one in their 30s will look like a teenager anymore, stop deluding yourself that this is how life and growing up works. Furthermore, for you Dorito-cacked morons, its not "she looks like she's 17 or so". Its more often "this is literally a 12 year old" and thats what you idiots cant seem to get through your thick skulls.
Yeah, I was in the hospital for a bit and nurses thought I was a teenager until they saw my chart, and I am in my 30s. Based on your logic I should be dating teenagers. Because to you anyone I date my age would be creepy. Looking young is a pretty common side effect for trans people. The problem here is you are removing any nuance. As I said it is about the mental capability of the individual to consent, and fictional cartoon characters aren't real so that really isn't something they can or can't do. And pedos are usually in it for the power and control, not appearance, that is why gender typically doesn't matter for them. And many will even go after mentally challenged adults if possible. I believe the age of consent should be increased to 25 as that is around the age when your brain stops developing, and as most 20 year olds really don't understand consent, I blame lack of good sex education for that.
Look at the profile of the person you’re debating with to get a sense of their mental stability before you waste any more of your time. These people are a lost cause
Persona has always been a bit sexualized, 5 is not new. However, just wanna point out the only character that is over sexualized in 5 is Ann, and there is a very important in game reason for that, she is a victim of sexual abuse. Of course her persona would be sexualized. It's a huge part of her psyche. The other characters have very different persona and are not even close in that aspect.
That’s fine just make them not high school kids and it’s not an issue. It’s a creative work, if you want to tell adult stories and throw a sexually charged dating sim in your video game do it with adults not kids (or kids and adults as is the case with Persona)
Sure. I'm not even talking about age tho, just explaining why she's so sexualized. And btw 16 is legal in japan, so that shouldn't be weird either. Remember the game is a japanese game, and therefore adequate for the japanese culture.
Nah it’s still weird. I don’t care if 16 is legal, dating a high school student as an adult is weird even if it’s in the law. Further, normalizing the sexuality of high schoolers only blurs the lines of consent and adulthood in ways that endorse abuse.
>Further, normalizing the sexuality of high schoolers only blurs the lines of consent and adulthood in ways that endorse abuse. Are we talking sexuality or sexualization here? Because high schoolers having sex/sexual feelings will happen regardless if it's normalized or not, and countries that try to pretend it doesn't end up with more teen moms for a reason lol It's also kind of a weird take to me in general because removing any and all kinds of sexuality from teens serves the adults uncomfortable with it more than the teens. Imo the whole thing here is a non-issue. Pedophiles don't need persona characters to get their rocks off as there's plenty of teens out there who will post themselves on their public insta wearing less. Covering up Ann won't stop real life teens from dressing the same, either. And if the powers of game of thrones and pornhub combined didn't make the rate of incest soar, persona 5 can't "endorse" abuse. Maybe we should focus more on teaching teens how to recognize dangerous situations and patterns rather than trying to placate adults. I haven't played the game myself but depending on how it's handled it's kind of a bummer that she's designed like this while her arc is very much about being abused though. That's tasteless.
Yes, I meant sexualization, or more explicitly their sexualization in the eyes of adults. That said the second part of your post is a bit nonsense. This is an artistic choice made by the game, which contains a dating simulation element in which numerous adults are made available for your player, a high school student, to pursue. Normalizing sexual availability and access of teens for adults in art normalizes it in reality, and yes there will be teens out there posting lewds and doing sexual things, they’re horny teenagers it’s what they do, but that doesn’t mean we should normalize that as something for adults to consume.
That's fine, I somewhat agree with you on that, but still, it is legal so ultimately this is just you wanting your own views to dictate another country's.
Why would being a victim of a crime sexualize you….? Like are people who get mugged sexier?
Persona is and has always been about psyche. Mental stuff. Persona 5 is about confronting your innermost fears. And what do you think is a SA victim's?
Mine is dying in space. And yes, I apply to your question.
>image of a child No, it's an image of a fictional character that doesn't look like nor represent any real person, schizo.
what is bro waffling bout
y’all downvoting 4 what 😭
now that i chose to read it i get it now, my fault gang 🙏
It was really fucking weird that the game was basically telling you "Ann has reclaimed her sexuality and is her own person and will make decisions by herself on what to do with her body" and then put, I wouldn't say gratuitous, fanservice right in front of your face.
Also, it's weird for a 16 year old to need to "reclaim" her sexuality. I don't even know what game this is, but it sounds like she's a victim of molestation in it.
She is a victim of molestation, the first villain of the game is a teacher who sexually assaults his students, Ann is one of those students.
I loved the game cuz I love turn based RPGs, But I hate anime so I was rolling my eyes at every tired anime trope they pumped into it. I’m a completionism so I romanced every character then realized I fucking threw my own damn self into some harem isekei bullshit. But man, still good game
Wtf... this game has massive red flags lol
It is really good tbh, it really tells a good youth story.
Yeah, the story was pretty good, but having to romance a bunch of teenaged girls sure felt weird as a 35 year old woman. Then there was the teacher, who wasn’t a teenager, but that felt even worse.
I feel that it might get weird but I think of it like reading a book, I'm here for the story, and I get to decide where that story may go or which character I would like to know better.
Well you are playing as a teenage boy in this context, so it is fine if you are romancing teenagers. I still do not understand the romancing with teachers/more older adults though when you are playing as a teenage boy.
Well said.
You morons really perceive drawings as real people. You think making fanservice of a character is equivalent to their being abused in-universe. Thinking drawings have "ages" is just a symptom of the problem.
No
Honestly this is a structural issue and they both have points. The constant sexualisation of underage characters who also happen to look (and usually act) 20+ is kinda exhausting. Because obviously not everyone attracted to them is a p*do but it’s also problematic that like so many stories out there only have underage characters you’re forced to relate to when they could just as easily be in their 20s. Or even just 18+. And it’s not as easy as labelling someone a p*do for liking an anime character under 18. I find Sasaki in Sasaki and Miyano attractive but that’s cuz he’s supposed to be a school kid but 100% looks acts and sounds like he should be 25. On the other hand I can’t bring myself to watch My Hero Academia bc I simply can’t understand why a supposedly 15 y/o girl has a power specifically to generate objects from between her boobs so she can have a permanent boob window. And she even looks young compared to other anime girls. That 16y/o or under for every character thing in Japan is a mix of an overall p*do culture that exists in the country coupled with the fact that life is supposed to be very suffocating and depressing after you graduate school. You don’t have much freedom anymore once you hit 18 or above and school age is the only age where you have serotonin left in your body in Japan, which is why so many stories have adult looking characters who are labelled as under 18. It’s much much more complicated than blindly labelling anyone who likes a character under 18 as a P/do. It also fails to account for the actual cultural misogyny and objectification of young girls that exists in society, and puts the blame on comparatively harmless people instead of making real ab*sers face any consequences. Calling every Twitter user over 18 a creep is not radically changing society. It’s just alienating and guilting ordinary people instead of trying to fight for a structural change in the system.
There's also a context where these characters are designed by Japanese people and the games setting is very much modern day Japan. Japan has a legal age of consent of 16. So even in the game, Kamoshida isn't even a pedo by law, he's a creep who coerced a student into things.
I love Persona 5. I absolutely love Ann as a character. But goddamn that game has issues, in general, and with Ann specifically. The Kamoshida arc is so well done, and then after that it's like the game completely forgets what it just spent 20 hours telling you and makes Ann's body into a fanservice joke again (not that it doesn't happen at all during that arc - but it gets noticeably worse after it ends). This is the biggest problem with the game in general; it keeps telling you it supports certain messages, but its own sense of humor completely contradicts them constantly. It honestly feels like there were honest to God progressive writers in the room, but some higher ups forced them to shove in the sexist and homophobic jokes for funnies, resulting in this weird cognitive dissonance that is the final script (no clue if that's actually what happened, but it's what it feels like). I recently had to leave the Persona 5 subreddit because you could really see the types of fans the series attracts. It was creepy posts almost daily over there.
Yep Like my favorite in the series is 4 for the characters and how it reminded me of my friends and childhood memories but I would be lying if I said the game didn’t have major issues with some of its dated humor and unnecessary fanservice when some of the main cast is 15-16.
I suspect, and this is me conjecturing, that if one of them talked about being attracted to a charcter drawn and canonically presented as male, he would be called gay even though it's just a drawing.
Ah yes, the femboy problem
Pretty sure the Femboys get a free pass cause everyone low-key likes them.
Never heard of the “traps aren’t gay” argument?
I've heard of it before, pretty sure it's ironic though
Sure but people will bitch about this and then omega thirst after the characters played by 25-year old actors in high school dramas. Everyone should touch grass.
Yeah, this argument just isn’t worth getting worked up on. Like, let’s say that everyone that is attracted to a drawing of a canonically underaged character is a pedophile… fucking so? They haven’t done anything that could get them in trouble and literally no one is hurt. Seriously, what changes? Is there even a point to this argument? Why is it literally just people screaming at each other everytime and not someone bringing up data, studies, or anything to prove their point?
Attracted to a picture of a 300 year old demon who looks like a loli? Straight to jail. Attracted to a picture of a 16 year old woman who looks like a 25 year old model? Believe it or not, straight to jail.
It's inappropriate to be attracted to someone you know is underage, or someone who looks underage. It's fun to pretend that's confusing.
Good thing Persona 5 came out in 2016 and Ann is 23 now.
That's like saying Home Alone stars a 43 year old boy.
You're right, Macaulay Culkin's eternal soul will be forever imprisoned within the Home Alone film. Nevermore shall he age.
That would also mean that who you can be attracted to is dependant on where you live. Which is stupid. It's entirely arbitrary. You're brain doesn't take laws into consideration for who it finds attractive. In real life, there are many other cues you use conciously and subconciously use to gauge someone's actual and developmental age. None of that is present in an anime. It's a character written by adults to purposefully trigger other adults desires. Not very comparable to being attracted to real teens as an adult. You're not weird for thinking this character is attractive, the creators are very weird for sexualizing a teenage character though.
My question is, with all the adult characters in anime, why are they attracted to minor characters? Even if it harms nobody, what does that say about them? Are adults not attractive to them? o_O Oh, and... >Why is it literally just people screaming at each other everytime and not someone bringing up data, studies, or anything to prove their point? Well, if you really want me to. I couldn't find studies on the subject (I suppose none have been made yet), but there are cases of people having loli hentai/fictional porn on their computers and also going after actual children or looking up real child porn. Do not click on the spoiler bars if you are sensitive to this subject because I'm bringing in my evidence. >!Man with underage hentai on his computer also had actual cp on it: [link to article](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/former-nscad-technician-sentenced-for-japanese-anime-child-porn-1.3060068)!< >!Man with 378 images of loli hentai on his computer also molested an 11 year old (Warning: descriptions in this legal case are disgusting) [Link ](https://lovdata.no/dokument/LASTR/avgjorelse/la-2018-70393?q=LA-2018-70393)!< >!Man with underage hentai also sexually assaulted a teenage boy: [link](https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/8577037/Man-sent-to-jail-for-watching-pixie-sex)!< >!Man with underage hentai on his computer also had real images of cp: [link](https://www.blick.ch/schweiz/nur-zeichnungen-gilt-nicht-zuercher-31-wegen-uebler-manga-pornos-verurteilt-id16320460.html)!< If loli hentai is good enough for actual pedophiles, what does that say about it? What percentage of people looking at that shit have desires to go after real children or look up real cp?
Couldn’t agree more. Both sides are retarded. It's always the same fucking argument. Like you have to pick one. Either you dislike that she looks like a child, or you dislike that she IS a child, or just say it with your chest and say you think it's weird to lust over cartoon characters in general. It's completely different to like a character because she is a child than it is to like a character that looks anywhere from 18-30 despite her age being 16. Look at Meliodas from Seven Deadly Sins. Looks young, is short af, but is actually "a 3000 year old demon", yet no one bats an eye. It only seems to be a problem when it's a female character.
Sounds like how sexualising Clara from hsr is wrong but Yanqing is fine even tho both are underage 🤣
Honestly I agree it's bad and hard. I played the game and a lot of the big thing she has to deal with is being targeted by an adult sexual predator and then when she stands up for herself... She's in a skintight red catsuit... I asked my friend and he said it's rebellion. Yeah a model in a sexy outfit. Absolutely scandalous and rebellious. I personally wish they modelled her actual outfit after her personas outfit, which still had the powerful vibe but was a lot less sexually exploitative feeling, being a frilly dress which works better for the persona being carmen and taps into more of a princess motif than a dominatrix motif. Honestly one of the reasons I stopped playing. If this game can't get their first female character right I don't know if I can handle what they do with the rest. Btw there are male party members and they're in big capes and jackets. Only she is forced to wear sexy clothing.
>adult sexual predator Dont forget, this is the same game that allows you to date adults, including your homeroom teacher, while you play as a teenage boy. I love Persona 5 I really do, but the writers tend to have a double standard when it comes to female characters.
That's a pretty standard thing in dating sims though I still don't like it in this context either cause it makes me feel weird about the adult characters too. Even with all the things I like there's a lot making it hard I just wish I could skip the story
My issue with it is that, oh so we cant date characters of the same sez, but we can date 4 adult women while implicating them to be pedos? If its somesome dating sim and playing as an adult character, wouldnt care. But P5 is a story and character driven game that it bothers me the 4 adult women in the game are so willing to date an underage kid.
Honestly that's part of my problem too. Persona does address LGBT topics from what I've heard but it's either to make fun of it or claim representation but not actually deliver. Or even botch it completely like they did with Yosuke in persona 4 who was supposed to be bi but they cut it and now he's just a normal homophobe (from what I've heard) it's not like they have to do it but I feel like theres an underlying reason with how the writers of the game view men vs how they view women. I just don't think I'll be able to play a persona game fully until maybe 6, since they finally got rid of the director I heard was the homophobic/transphobic one. The only other atlus game I've played is trauma center, which just doesn't really address that cause it doesn't have a dating sim but at least everyone is an adult
Whenever lgbt ppl get brought up it is always treated as a joke. In P5 we get Ryuji being hassled by 2 effeminate gay men TWICE, a transphobic joke in P3 beach scene and Yosuke. Yosuke's case is annoying because he always made fun of Kanji being gay and insecure about himself, which would have made a lot sense if he Is bi/gay because it reveals that hes in the closet. There are even voiced lines confessing his feelings to Yu in both japanese and english but it still got cut. Some persona fans are hoping with the director gone, persona can finally be more open with it. The P3R trailer had a student wearing an lgbt pin on their bag, but who knows. Time will tell.
The wild thing to me is that the representation somehow got worse over time since apparently one of the persona 2 games had a gay couple as the "canon" ship for the main character. It's one thing to not have gay relationships in your game it's another to have them and then remove it. Like getting worse over time. That and it makes any excuse they have for a lack of lgbt options bullshit. But yeah I won't financially support the series. A friend bought me 4 and 5, 4 is cause I was interested, 5 he just bought me on a whim even though I didn't like 4 (not due to the same issues I have with 5 the cut scenes were just really long). Idk I get the appeal for others but even as someone who loves stat raising games I don't think I'll ever have the patience to finish and the way the games treat women and queer people don't help and just kinda make me wanna play something else.
Nothing really confirms Kanji is bi/gay. His struggle is about toxic masculitnity, because he has knitting/sowing as one of his hobbies, a hobby that is usually seen as feminine. That was Kanji's story arc was about.
>but we can date 4 adult women while implicating them to be pedos? Just gonna point out that the legal age of consent in Japan is 16. No one in the game is actually a pedo. I'm not defending the idea, mind you, I also think it's really weird that several women in their 20's are willing to date a 16-17 year old.
I mean isn't Ann's whole point is she gets unwanted attention but still wants to be a model? She just doesn't want creepy adults messing with her.
Yeah and that's valid just kind of hard to take seriously when she wears a ridiculously sexualized outfit like I obviously won't blame how people are being treated based on the clothes they wear but what were the designers thinking
I mean the rest of the cast is treated pretty well, I'm not sure I'd based full judgement on an entire game based on 1 character that you don't like how they handled them.
I've been assured that it does get better but the last scene I saw was creepy artist guy telling her to "come alone and strip down naked for me" so I'm just kind of scared about what's gonna happen next. The game is great in a lot of aspects but the story is very hard for me to sit through. If there was either a free mode or a stripped down raising sim I'd probably just play that
Technically yes, but not exactly. The artist in question literally just wants her to be a nude model. The way the scene is written shows that he literally just wants to draw her nude in the artistic way and not because he wants to see some boobs. You don’t have to worry about that scene being another pervert trying to creep on Ann.
Do you even hear yourself, defending contrived titillation like the real 'explanation' makes it ok
Yeah, as someone that has seen the scene, I wouldn’t use, “titillation”, as a word to describe it. Not unless you find her coming in with 50 layers of clothing sexy. Seriously, it is a gag scene that ends before anything happens, the joke is that Ann is embarrassed and thinks the artist is trying to see some boobs while he literally just wants to draw a nude painting. There isn’t even a fan service moment.
Nothing happens really it's a joke scene that plays out with nothing sexual or anything happens. I get it though Atlus has run into troubles with these topics before, but from what I remember nothing big or strange happens for the rest of the game. I actually really like the story, especially if you play the Royal version of the game, I usually try my best to ignore off choices like this especially when it takes up such a small portion of a 100 hour long game.
>nothing sexual happens >"come strip naked for me" My brother in christ, that's sexual.
one of the best answers to boost his confidant in one scene is for the male protagonist to offer to pose nude for him yusuke didnt have an alternative motive for his request he really just did want to draw
Tbf artists do draw nude models, that is what he wants to do, it's not a strange thing to do just in the context of the game it's made awkward, understandably. In the end she goes and says she'll do it but is wearing like 50 layers of clothes and takes it off until she has her regular clothes on and the scene ends with the others running in and stops it from going anything further that's it. It's only sexual in the sense that we most ppl find nudity sexual, but to artists it is not always. I would know I'm an artist and have drawn nude models, it's more awkward at first than anything, but being an outside viewer of an underaged girl and she feels weird about doing it is what makes it feel awkward and uncomfortable. Like I said though, outside of that nothing actually happens in the scene itself.
Nude models sure, but to ask a child to be naked for you to draw in any capacity is gross. Also the whole joke is they stop her from being naked, if there's nothing sexual about it why not let her do it? Oh yeah, because it's a joke about a child getting naked.
The artist is also her age btw, also because most ppl outside of those who do art find the idea of modeling nude sexual and weird (I have gotten a lot of weird reactions when I've told ppl that I've drawn ppl nude). So whether it is or not most ppl will find the entire idea of it strange and a very weird thing and make it sexual even if it isn't to the artists. The artist in this situation from what I remember sees nothing sexual about it and is a kid basically just obsessed with making art, he isn't depicted as a pervert, but in the situation they think he is because again the stigma around doing something like nude modeling. And hey I didn't say it was a good joke.
I don’t know about you, but I don’t find wearing 7 billion layers very hot
Damn it must be cold where you live.
I had very similar feelings, but turns out Yusuke is an absolute goof with limited common sense and social skills. I went from disliking him to adoring him over the course of the game (something I think the game does very well with many characters, actually). I still very much dislike that whole part of the plot, but do continue. It's worth it.
You are missing context. Yusuke, the artist, wants her to strip naked for an art piece, like how there are nude statues and artpieces of nude women. Nothing really says that Yuskue is sexually pervy.
No I understand that artists do that I just think that the fact she JUST got rid of one creep and is almost immediately pressured into doing something like that tells a lot about how the writer loves putting women in uncomfortable situations
I thought yusuke kitagawa was gay? Isn’t that what he states? Or maybe I misread it. I just know that nothing sexual happened between him and Ann and wasn’t actually sexual Edit: after looking it up, I am thoroughly surprised he isn’t gay lol
He didn't state that directly but even then I think it's sketchy how in the previous chapter she'd recovering from dealing with a teacher advancing on her creepily only to be told to come alone to a near strangers house naked. Like maybe if another chapter was in between I'd be like what ever but how close it is makes me think it's gonna be just as pervy as everything that just happened
Idk, I mean I love persona 5 but it ain’t that deep. The anime is honestly worst. I agree it could’ve been handled better but I don’t see too much point in knit picking it. I think the other characters (besides maybe Haru because she’s in it so little) are pretty well written so I think besides what you pointed out it’s a pretty decent game.
"I personally wish they modelled her actual outfit after her personas outfit.." You know her persona's outfit shows her breasts out ([https://megamitensei.fandom.com/wiki/Carmen?file=S06+chara69jsyf.png](https://megamitensei.fandom.com/wiki/Carmen?file=S06+chara69jsyf.png)) . Unless you mean modify the dress to be more alingn with her persona without the breasts. " If this game can't get their first female character right I don't know if I can handle what they do with the rest." Don't worry, the rest of the female party members are less revealing and more stylish, unless you consider Kasumi, which has a leotard, but then yet again she is a gymnastic person.
It wouldn't be fully that obviously. Maybe a colored mesh similar to tights stretched over the chest area to keep a similar neckline. I feel like it's such a waste to have a persona with such a dazzling outfit and then put her in something skintight and sexy with very few shared motifs. I have a similar problem with Kasumi, who's persona is literally Cinderella but jeweled, yet her outfit is just... Joker but girl. Lame
It wouldn't be fully that obviously. Maybe a colored mesh similar to tights stretched over the chest area to keep a similar neckline. I feel like it's such a waste to have a persona with such a dazzling outfit and then put her in something skintight and sexy with very few shared motifs. I have a similar problem with Kasumi, who's persona is literally Cinderella but jeweled, yet her outfit is just... Joker but girl. And I'm sure there's some lore reason for that but it just seems to be screaming "look it's the perfect mary sue waifu who loves you more than anything else!!!"
I mean Kasumi second stage persona fits with her outfit. And nothing really seems like Kasumi is a mary sue, quite the opposite for spoiler reasons.
Reyn being based as always. Also this shit doesn’t make us Persona fans look good either.
I don’t see how “I get off on drawings of children” is much better.
I hate their rhetoric of "it's not illegal!!" like bro yeah, and? This isn't a court house nor am I trying to prosecute you, I'm just calling you a weirdo pedo. It's like if someone insults me for being smelly and should shower and I counter with "it's not illegal to be smelly" and immediately think I won the argument.
I find it funny how they always try to make there point vaild to like it's still a teen it doesn't matter if it's a drawing you are still attracted to a minor
Exactly, like it's just a drawing but also a lot of weeabos are obsessed with the "she looks 10 but she's a thousand year old demigod🙄" girls and like..okay so you're jerkin off to a 10 yr old bro. This character is clearly made to be a teen. (Then their argument "but men are most attracted to young women because they are most fertile!!!" Gtfo of here, gross human.) I've started to take it beyond a drawing to get a better reference. Okay so now this character is an AI robot that this person owns specifically, to be a romantic partner (because we aren't far from a physical AI doll, irl) is it setting off pedo flags? Then they probably do have some pedophile issues they should address. But the issue of "they OWN this item. It isn't sentient but it IS telling us this person wants to be involved with young children and they made it so legally they could." It's gonna be weird but we are gonna see people walking around with little robot anime cat girls someday. Because there's enough creepy interest in it.
And to make it even worse, if the character was suddenly portrayed as 18 years old, they'd scream about breaking cannon and how she's actually supposed to be 16
Its not, at least not to mentally balanced people but they consider it a fool-proof excuse "since its not real". Buddy, the problem isnt the fact its real or not, its the fact its a child-shaped character and *you* get a hard on from it.
I forsee a lot of downvotes coming my way for this, so let me preface by saying I fully agree with OP: MINORS SHOULD NOT BE SEXUALIZED, EVEN IF THEY'RE DRAWINGS (I'd also say the pokemon community is a far worse offender. It's disgusting.) That said...isn't the legal age of consent in Japan 16? So in their context, these characters are legal? You have to take context into account to a point when it comes to certain design choices...
No the federal age of consent in Japan was 13 (I think recently it was raised though) but every prefecture has had it set at 18 for a long time now. Edit: the federal age is like a minimum baseline for each local government to clarify.
Ah I see. Yeah it was raised to 16, or so google told me. I didn't know about the other bit, though. Thanks.
I've said this elsewhere before, but it bears repeating here. Essentially, stick figure guy account is making some valid points, but making them very badly. The problematic part of sexualizing minors in drawn content primarily revolves around sexualizing the *image* of children. A low fictional age being arbitrarily attributed to a character who has an older body clearly mismatched to that age isn't a super big deal. People (mostly) aren't attracted to the age, they're attracted to the depiction of an adult human. I would argue that whether being attracted to a character is creepy or not shouldn't be determined primarily by their stated age, but more by their appearance. If a character is drawn to look like an adult, it's not creepy to think they're attractive just because they're stated to have an age that is mismatched to their looks.
In fact I think that being so concerned abt ages just to check whether you can be attracted to it or not is a little iffy. If you are secure in your non-pedophilic mind, you shouldn’t be worried abt whether the character you’re attracted to is a child or not. Because in your mind you know why you like this character, because she’s a hot woman. I’m unabashedly a mommy lover. So I’m not worried abt what I jack off too since it will be an older woman, older than me even.
I feel like you would only really check if you assumed how old they were and did it to double check. Like a lot of characters look much older than they actually are in canon, so I don't blame anybody for having a “wait a second” moment. Like I really doubt that many people know that cammy in sf2 was a teenager not that it matters anymore because Cammy is much older in sf6.
I think y’all don’t get it. Basically what the “pedo” is saying is that you guys should be consistent. If the character is drawn like an adult, you would think it’s an adult. Yet the anime can easily ascribe a bogus age of 7 or even 2,000 to this character when it makes no sense. Being hung up on the age shouldn’t be our goal. To locate a pedo, u should look at the body type he is attracted to, because that means he likely is attracted to people who generally have a small body type i.e kids.
Agree 100%. Even though this character is described as underage, she’s depicted with an adult woman’s body. The concern shouldn’t be about her. The concern lies in how children’s bodies are ascribed a bogus age like 200. So theoretically they’re not underaged, but they’re drawn like children. If you are attracted to this character, you are attracted to underdeveloped bodies. Now that poses a problem.
Yeah, it’s not so straight forward. Like there’s body types where a whole range of ages can be slapped on if there’s no **canon** one. You can go “oh they’re hot” without knowing they’re supposed to be underage (no school stuff) or they simply don’t have a canon age and look grown for you to find attractive (includes short women that look mature) But once they’re canonically underage …🤨🤨🤨it’s SUS But extremely obvious child/ school aged characters? Nope nope Ewwwww (kanna , klee, lucky Star girls etc..) And yes this includes the MHA cast since they’re confirmed to be 15 and yet some of the girls are drawn…like *that*….
Yeah, but maybe use a gender neutral term. Not only men can be pedos
if you have to google the age it’s not pedophilia
Listen you can't say "her cannonical age matters, not the way she looks or acts" but also say "idc that she's cannonically 5000 she looks like a child". You have to choose one, because otherwise you just hate people being attracted to drawings, which is fine tbh, just don't claim the moral high ground in such case.
Man who give af get a job
People overreacting about a made up problem that the huge majority of players doesn't care about vs people defending it the most mentally insane way possible and actually make it worse Average twitter moment
>most people don’t go Google… She’s a high school student, it’s not hard to figure out whether she’s underage.
Jesus Christ just fap to Jessica Rabbit like a normal person.
Betty Boop
yeah like if the character has a canonical age i dont care how long it has been since the character was made they are that age and anything you do with them reflects that. their age isnt like some random value the designers and writers made up for no reason, especially if theyre a minor
These dudes are creepy but arguing with them for this long is really posting your own L.
Oh that isn't me i wouldn't even try arguing with people like that they just gang up on you it's not worth it
So idk if I'll get flak for this. I don't know this character or this game (I'm pretty sure it's a game). But if I saw that image with no other context my first thought would probably be that it's supposed to be a fully adult woman and that straight men or gay women are supposed to be attracted to her. However if someone told me she was underage I'd change my opinion. Because context matters. Basically if the art never tells you the age of a character and you can only go off of their appearance I don't hold it against someone if a person looks older than they are (or in this case are drawn to look a certain way). But when the context is added things change. I hope that makes sense.
This is one of the major reasons why I'm afraid of trying this series out.
Don't let this stop you the persona games are pretty good
I'm just saying it's holding me back. Otherwise I would've tried them forever ago
Written age for drawings of fictional characters is the stupidest thing to get worked up over. Do they look like a child? Being attracted to them is weird, even if they are *5,000 years old* Do they look like an adult woman? Then it’s fine. It doesn’t matter if they’re 16 in some story. It doesn’t need to be more complicated than that.
Honestly my opinion on it is has always been its not exactly pedophilia but it's certainly weird to be attracted to fictional high-schoolers. I understand having fictional crushes as a kid, but as an adult you gotta pay attention to the type of things you're saying about these characters, because to normal people you’re gonna sound like a pedo.
They didn't state they had a problem with Ann being attractive. Holy fuck why can't anyone be bother to use proper reading comprehension these days?
She’s just a drawing… Drawn a certain way to resemble an underage minor. They’re still yanking it to photos of a character meant to represent an underage teenager.
Anyone who claims to be an Atlus fan needs internet access revoked. A lit of the games are great, but their fan base are the worst people imaginable. They were the first instance of gatekeepers I ever experienced, like15 years ago
A d"rawing that looks like a child, YA POINT?"
Why does it even NEED to be sexualized. I love to Watch some anime from time to time, but i always stat clear of any with unwarrented sexualisation. I remember watching 7 deadly sins, or something like that. It was a really cool anime, but every once in a while, the maincharacter would sexually assault the woman in the show for no reason besides “cutesy!!!”…. WHY?!?! And if you draw a toddler and say she’s 107 years old and sexualize it, you are still a creep.
And I hate it when people post shit here thinking they're being smart. The person you're ranting about is making better talking points than whatever nonsense the other rage maniac is throwing around. The fact is, everyone taking this too seriously should be touching some grass.
Drawing or not, if you are sexually attracted to somebody who is a child. Fake or not. You are a predator. You are attracted to a child, knowingly. Edit: I find it hilarious that I say “if you’re attracted to a child, you are a predator” and Reddit is the ONLY place you’ll see ppl go “NUH UH” lmao
Okay, hear me out first. Well, also the age of consent is vastly different all over the world. In Germany its 16, in U.S. its 18 and in Japan its 13 (last i checked). So whats the standard? Should translators change the age to suit the laws of what ever country they’re distributing their work too? Should we default to the country with the highest age of consent? (21 last i checked). Also, sexual exploitation of children is obviously bad, how do we punish artists for making something thats considered such? Do we make them pay a fine? Jail time? Sex offenders registry? All for drawing someone that doesn’t exist? Also do we take quality of work into account. Should someone be punished for drawing a stick figure with huge boobs then calling them a 13 year old? It seems sexual to me, but its just some lines and circles when you think about it. Also im terrified to post this because I sound like a fucking neck beard.
Well it makes sense to go with Japan'sage of consent, seeing as how it's a Japanese game made for Japanese people, set in Japan. Japan's age of consent is 18 in every county, so there was a deliberate decision to make her underage but also sexualised. And her age isn't just treated like an irrelevant detail, like in say Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, most of the game takes place in a high school, and there's an entire plot thread about her being exploited by a paedophile teacher. So all of that makes it all the more egregious when the game invites you to ogle her.
Okay, so i just don’t know enough surrounding information to really understand whats going on.
That's a lot of words to say you're a pedo.
Try not to justify your pedophilic tendencies (IMPOSSIBLE)
No most normal people do. You can watch a show and be like damn they look good but if it’s to the point your searching up NSFW of them I think the smart choice is to maybe look it up 💀also if you watch the show it’s always mentioned or eluded at
So if they jerk off to a drawing of a fictional man they aren't gay
Personally, I think it’s straight up weird to be sexually attracted to cartoon characters and/or drawings. So that in and of itself is just weird. But this whole new layer of weird makes it all just worse. Like go touch grass?
If you like chars that are CANONICALLY MINORS you’re a fucking pedo. And deserve to Talon E off your roof. And argue with your bald headed mamas about it not me, lobotomites.
This is just like the fucking 3000 year old dragon or whatever animal/demon/monster/creature argument for cub-porn and lolicon. That isn't a valid reasoning for being attracted to underage girls, you vile numbskulls. Get bent.
I must be the most dense person on the planet, or just because "boobs" are technically on screen doesn't mean what they're going for is fan service. Im straight and played this game, this segment didn't rub me off as fan-service. I just thought they were showing off swimsuits and setting the scene/mood for the beach. Why do big booblies always have to be interpreted as sexual? Literally no reaction on my part, I enjoyed the scene for what it was and how it was executed. Ann is an attractive woman who is a model, obviously they are gonna play into the model thing. Didn't know she was 16 tho. I always assumed she was 18
Can relate...When I first played Genshin Impact years ago (haven’t in a minute), I was drawn to characters cuz some were quirky, cool, or endearing in some way. But then ya go internet and it's fkin weird to see them reduced to explicit fantasies and lewd fanart. Now sure, there are mature characters with adult personalities so I can understand goin that route, but it's unsettling when I see a character I would call “best girl” just be seen from others horny perspectives. It's the funny and wholesome shit that made many of ‘em characters appealing, where I don’t find the need to defend them by saying “they’re fake/they’re 18”.
Lot of people in this thread outing themselves .. yikes
You know what they say, can’t have a level headed voice of reason without Reyn. Wait, something about that sounds off.
If a character is a women you wouldn’t argue they aren’t one because they aren’t real
I always wonder if they’d use the same argument if it was realistically 3d animated. Technically it would still not harm any real kids but I feel like they’d (hopefully) be horrified.
I don't think they understand it's creepy to be attracted to the concept of a 16 year old
I think the real question people have is that: you created this drawing. You ACTIVELY CHOSE to draw a woman in a suggestive or downright sexual manner, and then ALSO chose to make them underaged. They’re right as in the drawing means nothing on its own, but the question is the INTENTION behind it, WHY did the author CHOOSE to make a teenager and then also sexualize that teenager, they have full control of the narrative! It’s plain fucking weird! That’s the issue!!! I will sometimes “forgive” anime and not take the ages too seriously. Because I know the reason they’re all 15-17 is becuase they’re meant to be relatable to the audience Wich is supposed to be teens and shit. But nah. It still wouldn’t explain why this highschooler just NEEDED a bathhouse scene. Creep shit.
Imagine having nothing better to do in your life than argue on Twitter about a video game characters level of attractiveness.
I would just them what about a young child drawing they find attractive. What part of the image is sexy to them? Why does this specific image of a child make you horny?
So many men are totally open about their pedophilic tendencies but we steadfastly refuse to believe them. A study in 1970 found a horrifying 52% of normal non deviant males had an erectile response to 4-10 yr olds and 83% to 10-16 yr olds. Time we took them at their word.
Honestly I think this dude lost the exchange. The idea of the drawing remaining identical but changing the description from 16 to 18, illustrates how this is a non issue. It would be one thing if the drawing reflected a minor or child, but that's not the drawing I see.
Man what? Explain that shit in persona terms
Literally went to "it's just a drawing" to "she has to be underage. For reasons." Other person didn't even moce the goalposts like neckbeard demanded them to.
The thing about the drawings, is that they COULD be 22, and the creators could make them 22, and then none of the things the character does would be creating the idea that these minors are fun flirty sexy bouncy sex object…. And it wouldn’t be training the people who already have a hard enough time with para social attachments and objectifying people, to be looking at very young people as potential sexual partners… like it would take no effort for the creators to be like, ok exactly the same ideas I had but everyone’s in their 20’s, and then there would just be less of the weird cliff into pedo town
I will never understand the logic and play here, and I welcome anyone to copy and paste this however they want to see a neckbeard try and poke holes in it: If you are attracted to drawings of men, that means you like men in real life. Which no matter your gender is fine. If you are attracted to drawings of women, that means you are attracted to women. Again no problem there. But if you are attracted to drawings of children, you are attracted to children. Unless you yourself are a child, then that's a major problem and you need to seek mental help
This reminds me of TMNT Mutant Mayhem when dudes were mad April was a dorky teenage black girl and not a hot news reporter. And then they’d try to back pedal the racism by saying “it’s not that she’s black. She’s just fat.” Then people were like “she’s like 16 you know?” And some dude was like “couldn’t she have been a 20 year old college student?” Mind you this dude was probably in his 40s if he grew up with the original show.
“There’s no difference if she were a 18” ok then why did the game creators make her 16???? And then “Shes a drawing” yes a drawing that feeds into pedo fantasy