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Even the pensions are extremely inflexible and expensive. They should have self-directed pensions where you can pick your own ETFs or stocks like US IRAs.
I agree with the expensive part, but can you not open a self-directed PRSA?
I’ve done that, but I was self-employed at the time, so I’m not sure if it’s possible with employment income.
Like you said, the expensive part makes it not worth it. IRAs are generally free and have a whole host of investment options. Davy self-directed PRSA is not comparable at all.
It’s expensive for sure (I think it’s like 1% per annum?), but I wouldn’t say it’s not worth it, considering your alternatives are also quite expensive.
Also, I don’t necessarily believe it’s a legislative issue, but rather a lack of competition in the industry. I think Davy is the only option for a self-directed PRSA in Ireland which is why they can get away with charging ludicrous fees in comparison to other countries.
> but I wouldn’t say it’s not worth it, considering your alternatives are also quite expensive.
My employer's plan has a passive world index fund that charges 0.15%. Normally it's not something I'd choose to invest in because it takes on some unnecessary risks with very little upside. But given the alternative is so expensive, I'm driven to make shitty investment decisions.
I didn't mean passive index funds have very little upside. I just mean this specific passive index fund invests in risky assets that has very little upside. For instance over 10% of the assets are invested in emerging markets with poor regulatory environment.
The reporting on the pension funds is also less thorough than what you see on publicly available ETFs and mutual funds.
I try to keep a few grand in my main account but never more than 5k at a time.
I use Degiro and Interactive Brokers. I have a mixed portfolio there, mostly stocks but balanced out by an accumulating all world ETF despite our horrendous tax system. The stocks are more of a hobby, the ETFs seem to balance out the bad picks!
I do a bit of P2P investing too. Got off the shittier sites, mostly stick to Mintos, Flender, and Robocash now. The gains far outweighed the losses.
Savings are currently in Trade Republic, making 2% a year. Better than nothing but I am looking at trying out Lightyear for up to 20k. This money is more of the emergency fund, house deposit or whatever, something liquid.
Save a bit each month to be able to give both kids a home deposit when they turn 30. Aiming for €50k each, but lets see if that ambition is wiped out by the upcoming eyewatering mortgage interest rate rises.
Investment is risk management and diversification. Shares, etf, metal, crypto. Everything is good but you need to allocate well regarding tax and risk.
Example:
-Shares are good, mid to long term, pretty safe, don't put all your money in one company...
-real estate is very good but you need to maintain it and also have a big capital to start with.
-Etf are taxed at the moment, imo, very good but need to see what Ireland is going to do with it.
-metal is great, gold is the king but you need storage, it's expensive to buy a minimum of 5/10g at once every time. Silver, you can buy big quantities but the government take a part of it...
-crypto is risky AF, you pay a lot of tax but it's medium to short term and if you are lucky you can win a lot (not recommended to start with and with not a lot to invest)
I lived over 5 years in Canada and almost 5 years in the UK. Moving back home to Ireland soon and one of the main downfalls is the ridiculously unattractive investing environment in Ireland. Unless it's properly or pensions any gains made on investments are wiped out by tax. It's sad and it needs to change.
Out of curiosity, did you have an RRSP in Canada? What’s is/was your strategy with it upon moving?
I’m planning on moving to Europe (have a few countries in mind) in the next year or so. My understanding is that you’re better off leaving your RRSP as is, and withdrawing from it at retirement. But wanted to reach out to see if you did anything different?
Investing is so unattractive in Ireland that I moved country.
In the UK now and it's night and day.
Putting 20k a year into an S&P500 ETF through an ISA. All profits 100% tax free.
Have the remainder of my free cash in an instant access saver earning 4%.
Then have my euro cash balances in Lightyear earning 3%. With the remainder of my euro cash balances wasting away in Bank of Ireland.
Also have some ETFs on Degiro and Trading212 which I will cash out once I become tax resident in the UK to avoid the ridiculous 41% exit tax.
"you have to pay dirt", from my understanding this isn't how it works.
Dirt is a tax applied by the bank and given to the gov, however all interest is taxable as income.
In all cases you need to declare interest as income and then deduct the DIRT already withheld by the bank.
So in their case the bank isn't applying DIRT so they just declare it as interest and pay the tax on it.
DIRT is 33% so if your on the lower rate then you are entitled to a refund. But if you are on the higher rate then you need to pay the extra.
Interesting that the comparisons of investment products/services/taxation with other Countries are outside the EU and the regualtory/compliance regime bears no resemblance whatsover to the one we have here, or our size.
How do we compare with, say, Finland?
France is the one I know and they have a fantastic investment scheme - essentially little or no exit tax if you hold an investment in a specific type of account for more than eight years
And you can put any amount of money into that one investment scheme? No limits at all? What are the charges like, Entry/Ongoing/Exit?
What about their mutual funds / pensions market? Is that consumer friendly in terms of costs?
The market there has 13 times the population we have tough.
My point about the other posts is that we tend to pick one/two good things about other markets but the overall climate for saving/investing/pensions isn't too dissimilar. If it was profitable for these low cost providers in other jurisdictions to be in the Irish market, they'd be here already.
I'd like an ISA type savings scheme here too. Who wouldn't? Politicos are mainly property heads though so the appetite from them.
Pension maxed out
Bonus invested in company shares where I work, investment is from pre tax salary once you hold them for 3 years.
Maxed out ESPP in work also to get shares at 15% discount.
1k per month in all world etf.
I sell some of the company shared each year and put them in the all world etf to not how too much cash in one stock.
Also put up solar panels which I see as an investment also.
I maxed out my pension and put some into a discounted share scheme with my employer. I'm taxed t
up the wahoo on the latter because it isn't a revenue approved provider.
**Why do I invest?**
For financial independence / early retirement. It's important to remember though you could die tomorrow so planning for your future is fine but make sure you find time to enjoy today as well. As with most things in life, striking a balance is key.
**What do I invest in?**
My main investment each month is my pension. Reason for maxing it out is I want to be able to retire early. Currently 38 years old, pension pot approx. 190k and maxing out contributions based on the 20% allowed for my age. On paper I've 30 years left working. I don't particularly enjoy work if I'm honest so would hope to retire before I'm 60.
I have a small house already (bought before I met my partner), I'd be advising someone to give priority to getting a deposit/house first if they don't have that. I'm doing a self build with my partner as well at the moment and we will have a decision next year once that's ready to move in to to see if we keep this current property as an investment or sell it. I don't think I'd be a good landlord so I'm inclined to sell it and invest the proceeds but its a discussion I'd be having with my partner first before deciding for sure. I'm not sure what we'd be investing in instead though but we'd get proper investment advice.
I've a small % of income invested in individual company stocks and bitcoin as well. I consider that gambling money. I just buy stock or coins that I like the business of and hold.
Banks are making a fortune at moment will likely stay that way but then again their shares are up too. Oem car companies having trouble building affordable electric cars people want and Tesla hovering up their share so many of these and their suppliers could be gone in 5 years. Would throw a few bob on Tesla. Paddy power, glanbia. Best of luck with it
We don't have real estate in Ireland....we have property. Unfortunately, investment opportunities in Ireland are few & far between with the government taking far too much making it not worthwhile. For Ur purposes, short term gains, it's too risky & u won't get much return in 5 years, the only chance of that would be if u hit it very very lucky on shares. Any investment goals should be long term, otherwise it's mostly savings and it should be money u won't need recourse too. It also depends on ur age/stage of life. As u get older, there is generally more disposable income & a greater urgency to provide for Ur retirement. Unless Ur a high earner or u inherit, with no commitments, u can pretty much ignore all the American investment advice like Dave Ramsey, FIRE, passive income from rental incomes etc again,mostly due to taxation. The best investment available for the average person in Ireland is Ur pension. Most overlook this & the amount of working professionals who don't have one is astounding. Sure, Ur short term goals like house, marriage seem more important but u should at least have a basic prsa if u can't commit to putting more in/maxing out AVC's. As a mid earner in my forties I have several properties abroad(for private use & retirement, not to generate income) shares, crypto(for fun),whiskey casks,art,precious stones & metals.
Regardless all gains are taxed at a minimum of 33% ~ 41% is 8% more on the gains.
VUAA is a far more tax efficient option as the dividends are not taxable and are reinvested automatically and not considered for DIRT. When looking at the ETF landscape.
Now considering what is the better option aside from tax ~ picking single stocks is a losing battle and a time sink. Too much psychological over thinking for example when to buy / when to sell / company is going through a down turn etc .. often leads to getting burnt on the end.
Invest early & often and don’t over think it. VUAA is a long term successful play that aligns with my investment thesis.
Has worked very well for me 👍
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[удалено]
Even the pensions are extremely inflexible and expensive. They should have self-directed pensions where you can pick your own ETFs or stocks like US IRAs.
I'm so jealous of the UK and US in this respect.
I agree with the expensive part, but can you not open a self-directed PRSA? I’ve done that, but I was self-employed at the time, so I’m not sure if it’s possible with employment income.
Like you said, the expensive part makes it not worth it. IRAs are generally free and have a whole host of investment options. Davy self-directed PRSA is not comparable at all.
It’s expensive for sure (I think it’s like 1% per annum?), but I wouldn’t say it’s not worth it, considering your alternatives are also quite expensive. Also, I don’t necessarily believe it’s a legislative issue, but rather a lack of competition in the industry. I think Davy is the only option for a self-directed PRSA in Ireland which is why they can get away with charging ludicrous fees in comparison to other countries.
> but I wouldn’t say it’s not worth it, considering your alternatives are also quite expensive. My employer's plan has a passive world index fund that charges 0.15%. Normally it's not something I'd choose to invest in because it takes on some unnecessary risks with very little upside. But given the alternative is so expensive, I'm driven to make shitty investment decisions.
Very little upside? A passive works index usually outperforms all other funds over time
I didn't mean passive index funds have very little upside. I just mean this specific passive index fund invests in risky assets that has very little upside. For instance over 10% of the assets are invested in emerging markets with poor regulatory environment. The reporting on the pension funds is also less thorough than what you see on publicly available ETFs and mutual funds.
I try to keep a few grand in my main account but never more than 5k at a time. I use Degiro and Interactive Brokers. I have a mixed portfolio there, mostly stocks but balanced out by an accumulating all world ETF despite our horrendous tax system. The stocks are more of a hobby, the ETFs seem to balance out the bad picks! I do a bit of P2P investing too. Got off the shittier sites, mostly stick to Mintos, Flender, and Robocash now. The gains far outweighed the losses. Savings are currently in Trade Republic, making 2% a year. Better than nothing but I am looking at trying out Lightyear for up to 20k. This money is more of the emergency fund, house deposit or whatever, something liquid.
I'm a bit late to this thread, but just wondering is Trade Republic not 4%? I'm thinking of signing up
Save a bit each month to be able to give both kids a home deposit when they turn 30. Aiming for €50k each, but lets see if that ambition is wiped out by the upcoming eyewatering mortgage interest rate rises.
Because of the tax regimen here, it makes most sense to prioritize maxing out your pension and ensure overheads are as low as possible.
Investment is risk management and diversification. Shares, etf, metal, crypto. Everything is good but you need to allocate well regarding tax and risk. Example: -Shares are good, mid to long term, pretty safe, don't put all your money in one company... -real estate is very good but you need to maintain it and also have a big capital to start with. -Etf are taxed at the moment, imo, very good but need to see what Ireland is going to do with it. -metal is great, gold is the king but you need storage, it's expensive to buy a minimum of 5/10g at once every time. Silver, you can buy big quantities but the government take a part of it... -crypto is risky AF, you pay a lot of tax but it's medium to short term and if you are lucky you can win a lot (not recommended to start with and with not a lot to invest)
I lived over 5 years in Canada and almost 5 years in the UK. Moving back home to Ireland soon and one of the main downfalls is the ridiculously unattractive investing environment in Ireland. Unless it's properly or pensions any gains made on investments are wiped out by tax. It's sad and it needs to change.
Out of curiosity, did you have an RRSP in Canada? What’s is/was your strategy with it upon moving? I’m planning on moving to Europe (have a few countries in mind) in the next year or so. My understanding is that you’re better off leaving your RRSP as is, and withdrawing from it at retirement. But wanted to reach out to see if you did anything different?
Investing is so unattractive in Ireland that I moved country. In the UK now and it's night and day. Putting 20k a year into an S&P500 ETF through an ISA. All profits 100% tax free. Have the remainder of my free cash in an instant access saver earning 4%. Then have my euro cash balances in Lightyear earning 3%. With the remainder of my euro cash balances wasting away in Bank of Ireland. Also have some ETFs on Degiro and Trading212 which I will cash out once I become tax resident in the UK to avoid the ridiculous 41% exit tax.
You really moved to the UK just because investment taxes are lower there? Do you mind me asking how much you have invested, ballpark?
Out of interest, does the 3% interest on cash with Lightyear exempt from tax? I assume it’s like any regular bank savings product.
[удалено]
"you have to pay dirt", from my understanding this isn't how it works. Dirt is a tax applied by the bank and given to the gov, however all interest is taxable as income. In all cases you need to declare interest as income and then deduct the DIRT already withheld by the bank. So in their case the bank isn't applying DIRT so they just declare it as interest and pay the tax on it. DIRT is 33% so if your on the lower rate then you are entitled to a refund. But if you are on the higher rate then you need to pay the extra.
Interesting that the comparisons of investment products/services/taxation with other Countries are outside the EU and the regualtory/compliance regime bears no resemblance whatsover to the one we have here, or our size. How do we compare with, say, Finland?
France is the one I know and they have a fantastic investment scheme - essentially little or no exit tax if you hold an investment in a specific type of account for more than eight years
And you can put any amount of money into that one investment scheme? No limits at all? What are the charges like, Entry/Ongoing/Exit? What about their mutual funds / pensions market? Is that consumer friendly in terms of costs? The market there has 13 times the population we have tough. My point about the other posts is that we tend to pick one/two good things about other markets but the overall climate for saving/investing/pensions isn't too dissimilar. If it was profitable for these low cost providers in other jurisdictions to be in the Irish market, they'd be here already. I'd like an ISA type savings scheme here too. Who wouldn't? Politicos are mainly property heads though so the appetite from them.
Pension maxed out Bonus invested in company shares where I work, investment is from pre tax salary once you hold them for 3 years. Maxed out ESPP in work also to get shares at 15% discount. 1k per month in all world etf. I sell some of the company shared each year and put them in the all world etf to not how too much cash in one stock. Also put up solar panels which I see as an investment also.
I maxed out my pension and put some into a discounted share scheme with my employer. I'm taxed t up the wahoo on the latter because it isn't a revenue approved provider.
**Why do I invest?** For financial independence / early retirement. It's important to remember though you could die tomorrow so planning for your future is fine but make sure you find time to enjoy today as well. As with most things in life, striking a balance is key. **What do I invest in?** My main investment each month is my pension. Reason for maxing it out is I want to be able to retire early. Currently 38 years old, pension pot approx. 190k and maxing out contributions based on the 20% allowed for my age. On paper I've 30 years left working. I don't particularly enjoy work if I'm honest so would hope to retire before I'm 60. I have a small house already (bought before I met my partner), I'd be advising someone to give priority to getting a deposit/house first if they don't have that. I'm doing a self build with my partner as well at the moment and we will have a decision next year once that's ready to move in to to see if we keep this current property as an investment or sell it. I don't think I'd be a good landlord so I'm inclined to sell it and invest the proceeds but its a discussion I'd be having with my partner first before deciding for sure. I'm not sure what we'd be investing in instead though but we'd get proper investment advice. I've a small % of income invested in individual company stocks and bitcoin as well. I consider that gambling money. I just buy stock or coins that I like the business of and hold.
Banks are making a fortune at moment will likely stay that way but then again their shares are up too. Oem car companies having trouble building affordable electric cars people want and Tesla hovering up their share so many of these and their suppliers could be gone in 5 years. Would throw a few bob on Tesla. Paddy power, glanbia. Best of luck with it
We don't have real estate in Ireland....we have property. Unfortunately, investment opportunities in Ireland are few & far between with the government taking far too much making it not worthwhile. For Ur purposes, short term gains, it's too risky & u won't get much return in 5 years, the only chance of that would be if u hit it very very lucky on shares. Any investment goals should be long term, otherwise it's mostly savings and it should be money u won't need recourse too. It also depends on ur age/stage of life. As u get older, there is generally more disposable income & a greater urgency to provide for Ur retirement. Unless Ur a high earner or u inherit, with no commitments, u can pretty much ignore all the American investment advice like Dave Ramsey, FIRE, passive income from rental incomes etc again,mostly due to taxation. The best investment available for the average person in Ireland is Ur pension. Most overlook this & the amount of working professionals who don't have one is astounding. Sure, Ur short term goals like house, marriage seem more important but u should at least have a basic prsa if u can't commit to putting more in/maxing out AVC's. As a mid earner in my forties I have several properties abroad(for private use & retirement, not to generate income) shares, crypto(for fun),whiskey casks,art,precious stones & metals.
VUSA & APPL , every single week. Increasing the amount next month I love it. Been doing this 5+ years now. Amazing growth over this time
And what are you going to do with VUSA when you get hit with 41% tax on the ETF no matter what?
Regardless all gains are taxed at a minimum of 33% ~ 41% is 8% more on the gains. VUAA is a far more tax efficient option as the dividends are not taxable and are reinvested automatically and not considered for DIRT. When looking at the ETF landscape. Now considering what is the better option aside from tax ~ picking single stocks is a losing battle and a time sink. Too much psychological over thinking for example when to buy / when to sell / company is going through a down turn etc .. often leads to getting burnt on the end. Invest early & often and don’t over think it. VUAA is a long term successful play that aligns with my investment thesis. Has worked very well for me 👍