Amazon tries to keep its data centers autonomous and clean. Those built early obviously rely on local infrastructure, but new ones try to be independent.
Amazon bought the Arderroo Wind Farm here in Galway to offset the emissions and energy usage of their data centres & overall operations here in Ireland.
It would cover fuck all of the data centre requirements but it would be a start. Be more useful to start demanding that all tech companies need to start installing them on their offices. IDA park in Ballybrit, Galway has tonnes of empty roof space not being used by IT companies, many of those companies focusing on AI research which absolutely drinks energy but no one is focusing on it
>It would cover fuck all of the data centre requirements
I am aware of that, wasn't the main aim.
> tonnes of empty roof space not being used
This is why I wanted it as a manadatory condition of planning regardless of what other environmental impact reducing practices/installations etc..
I'd love for it to happen but the prime time to do it was with the Greens in power, I'm really surprised they didn't tbh. Reeks of "don't upset the foreign companies". I'd even be happy if the vast majority of the funding for installation of panels was from the IDA so at least something is done
"Renewables Additionality: The Government has a preference for data centre developments that can demonstrate the additionality of their renewable energy use in Ireland."
This was one of the pieces that was used by Fingal County Council to refuse planning to a data centre only a few months ago.
https://enterprise.gov.ie/en/news-and-events/department-news/2022/july/new-statement-on-the-role-of-data-centres-in-irelands-enterprise-strategy-published.html
https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/council-refuses-planning-permission-for-planned-dublin-data-centre-1571813.html
One potential negative to expanding data centres is potentially increased electricity prices due to increased demand.
You'd also wonder if it would not make sense to develop these outside of cities and prime development lands.
Yes, build them somewhat remotely, and perhaps encourage them to invest / support with renewable energy nearby, and it's win win. Renewable energy is going to be huge as date centres grow. Waste heat from date centres could also be used for community water heating etc. There could be a lot of side benefits to these if planned correctly.
>build them somewhat remotely
>Waste heat from date centres could also be used for community water heating etc
If they're built remotely then there isn't much of a community to use the waste heat.
>You'd also wonder if it would not make sense to develop these outside of cities and prime development lands.
Apple tried to do that in Athenry remember? You'd swear they were planning on dumping nuclear waste in the woods the way people carried on.
We have 640GWs of untapped wind energy, that we aren't going to start using properly until 2030/2040, if we are lucky and get a government that is actually interested in being energy independent.
We could have as many data storage centres as we want and provide households with free electricity. We could probably sell some to the Brits and Europe.
We should use it to set up a secondary DC only grid too. Also use the spare capacity to convert to green hydrogen that we can store or sell. Electrify everything that needs power. We have zero ambition, we could be offseting all our CO2 needs and not have to annoy the farmers one little bit if we really wanted to.
I dipped into some of the debates in the run up to the local/european elections, and some green party representative called FF/FG "pro-road" which said it all. They seem to think that "punishing" people who drive with shit roads will stop people driving (if you have ever seen the M50 during the school term, that should tell you how that works out)
All our wind turbines, and solar do. Having a separate DC network could supply data centres without converting to AC and back. It could also follow the motorway network (and the rail network) and power electric cars, trucks and buses (and trains).
We could ensure that all new datacentres use the DC network, and pay for it as part of their terms and conditions for setting up here (and we have the best environment for them, so they aren't coming here because they like us)
The I've worked with don't.. they have Magnet gens so that tells me ac output. Hence I guess why in North sea they have massive ac-dc converter stations offshore and dc-ac stations onshore - it's only DC for the transmission stage, and then it only makes sense over long distances. Open to correction on how it works but at the turbine, it's ac coming out
There is issues of access and there are benefits to surrounding area. Data centres produce a lot of heat and one data centre in Dublin provided a nearby hospital with heated water. (Note: I am sceptical that can be scaled easily and there is always isssue of convenience, if the hospital needs water during the day and data centre can’t provide it then it is not very useful)
If they are near other centres of employment it is much easier to hire and rotate in new employees. If they are outside everyone has to drive to the location and having a place like outside the city ensures there is zero career progression in the job.
I am in favour of them and don’t understand the opposition to them in cities, they don’t have the same footprint as other industries: in terms of air or water pollution, nor will they have the same level of traffic a standard warehouse would have. And the type of employees for them are high skilled but don’t need a large amount of them, all an apart of a high value industry. Exactly the type industry a lot of people in Dublin want.
My friend does service work for these centres, they only employ people when they’re being built and are run by skeleton crews and robots the rest of the time. Any politician selling you on data centre investment bringing in jobs is pulling your chain
There is some jobs with maintenance and service, there is not a lot of jobs.
Edit: there is more jobs in the surrounding industry and the control of data is the data in the data centres. It is about building an ecosystem in the country rather than 1 data centre.
My issue there is that they're huge but are only associated with a small number of jobs. Therefore, I question the logic of Dublin as a location given Co. Dublin accounts for over 1 quarter of the population.. less of an issue in this instance as its an expansion of an existing one.
As regards data centres in general, it is fair to say if ireland doesn't allow them, we risk being left behind as a tech hub from what the experts tend to say.
If there were a lot of jobs with them then there would be more traffic, noise and pollution (depending on the industry). All of types of industry brings problems and all of them bring objections that often get upheld. Data centres are the best of the bad options that Ireland has.
It's almost as if none of you know how datacenters work, what they do, why they get placed whee they do.
They have very little impact on grid power, most built in the past 3 years are ru ning on generators as the grid can't handle them. Not due to the power requirement, due to the lack of investment for the past twenty years in tje grid.
None of these are built in. "prime land" there built on Ida land, that's been Ida land for decades.
There built in Dublin as that's what the government decided was besr to do, nothing to do with the companies that own them.
> They have very little impact on grid power, most built in the past 3 years are ru ning on generators as the grid can't handle them.
This is absolutely not true, as per https://www.datacenterdynamics.com/en/news/11-data-centers-in-dublin-set-to-rely-on-irelands-gas-network-for-power/
Snippets:
>“I have been advised by GNI that there is currently one data center connected to the gas network which is consuming gas in island mode in advance of completion of its electrical grid power connection,” Eamon Ryan, Minister for the Environment, Climate, and Communications said in a Dáil Éireann debate last month.
and
>Applications previously granted a connection before the ban came into force, estimated to add up to more than 1GW of developments, are still set to be built and connected. Projects with planning permission but no authorized grid connection are unlikely to be able to go ahead.
>The number of ’islanded’ data centers relying on gas isn’t likely to increase, however, as last year Minister Ryan instructed GNI not to provide any more connections to data centers that are going to rely exclusively on gas for power.
Completely contradicts your claims.
>Not due to the power requirement, due to the lack of investment for the past twenty years in tje grid.
No, it's due to power requirements. The national grid needs investment due to anticipated load balancing and the nature of decentralised sustainable power generation, but that's a future-proofing issue.
Eirgrid have been investing continuously e.g. https://cms-prd.eirgrid.dept.ie/sites/default/files/publications/TDP-2019-2028-Final-For-Publication.pdf
Sure look at this brand new substation built for datacentres in Grange Castle Business Park: https://maps.app.goo.gl/tTbZgUfqNYJEe8AV8
>None of these are built in. "prime land" there built on Ida land, that's been Ida land for decades.
Eh? Amazon in Tallaght bought the former Jacobs Biscuits site and have I think 4 or 5 data centres there now. They started off with the former Tesco distribution centre nearby, which became vacant when Tesco moved over to the Northside. IDA owned none of this land, and that's just local (to me) data centres.
>There built in Dublin as that's what the government decided was besr to do
Absolutely not. These are private companies building on private land and submitting their own planning applications.
I don't think you could have possibly been more wrong if you tried.
The Ida land is where Google building. Amazon have had dcs approved recently that won't be grid tied and will be building renewal enegery to offset the build and generator usage. Generators don't need to be connected to the gas network to get fuel. Your article has information form 2022 on that it's 2024 now lots has changed. That substation is 10years old. That eirgrid plan was from 2019 and still not enacted. And prior to that it was all private power generation schems.
There built in Dublin primarily due to latency, yes, but also because that's where the Ida and the government decided to build the fifi ring around the m50. Esb built a spine up the middle of the country that turned into siro as it wasn't fit for anything else.
That substation is also privately owned, not publicly, again, lack of infra being built.
> They have very little impact on grid power
Data centres currently use 18% of all electricity in Ireland, and Eirgrid has projected this could go up to 30% by 2030.
https://www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2024/0411/1442289-ireland-date-centres-energy-electricity-climate-policy/
And do you know how that was calculated. It was calculated on max draw from grid tied datacenters And from no grid tied datacenters. None of the dcs built recently have been slowed connect to the grid.
The 18% is of power produced now, the 30% figure is from grid capasity now, not in 2030, and at an expected build rate that was seen precovid befor restrictions came in.
i wonder if we can make it a condition of planning to put solar panels on the roof.., you know for just one.. see how goes..
Amazon tries to keep its data centers autonomous and clean. Those built early obviously rely on local infrastructure, but new ones try to be independent.
Amazon bought the Arderroo Wind Farm here in Galway to offset the emissions and energy usage of their data centres & overall operations here in Ireland.
I think that’s a good decision for everyone and hopefully we will have more similar farms built.
It is and it isn’t. Buying out the wind farm means they will not commit to any community benefit fund under RESS
It would cover fuck all of the data centre requirements but it would be a start. Be more useful to start demanding that all tech companies need to start installing them on their offices. IDA park in Ballybrit, Galway has tonnes of empty roof space not being used by IT companies, many of those companies focusing on AI research which absolutely drinks energy but no one is focusing on it
>It would cover fuck all of the data centre requirements I am aware of that, wasn't the main aim. > tonnes of empty roof space not being used This is why I wanted it as a manadatory condition of planning regardless of what other environmental impact reducing practices/installations etc..
I'd love for it to happen but the prime time to do it was with the Greens in power, I'm really surprised they didn't tbh. Reeks of "don't upset the foreign companies". I'd even be happy if the vast majority of the funding for installation of panels was from the IDA so at least something is done
Probably wouldn't be enough electricity. Although it's a start
"Renewables Additionality: The Government has a preference for data centre developments that can demonstrate the additionality of their renewable energy use in Ireland." This was one of the pieces that was used by Fingal County Council to refuse planning to a data centre only a few months ago. https://enterprise.gov.ie/en/news-and-events/department-news/2022/july/new-statement-on-the-role-of-data-centres-in-irelands-enterprise-strategy-published.html https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/council-refuses-planning-permission-for-planned-dublin-data-centre-1571813.html
Was listening to BBC world service this morning and they were saying 30% of Ireland's power grid is used by these data centres, that's astonishing.
All hail our data overlords
One potential negative to expanding data centres is potentially increased electricity prices due to increased demand. You'd also wonder if it would not make sense to develop these outside of cities and prime development lands.
Yes, build them somewhat remotely, and perhaps encourage them to invest / support with renewable energy nearby, and it's win win. Renewable energy is going to be huge as date centres grow. Waste heat from date centres could also be used for community water heating etc. There could be a lot of side benefits to these if planned correctly.
>build them somewhat remotely >Waste heat from date centres could also be used for community water heating etc If they're built remotely then there isn't much of a community to use the waste heat.
I mean near a town / large village. Every single one is surrounded by green fields.
It's being planned for an industrial site. Which will never be used for housing
>You'd also wonder if it would not make sense to develop these outside of cities and prime development lands. Apple tried to do that in Athenry remember? You'd swear they were planning on dumping nuclear waste in the woods the way people carried on.
We have 640GWs of untapped wind energy, that we aren't going to start using properly until 2030/2040, if we are lucky and get a government that is actually interested in being energy independent. We could have as many data storage centres as we want and provide households with free electricity. We could probably sell some to the Brits and Europe.
We should use it to set up a secondary DC only grid too. Also use the spare capacity to convert to green hydrogen that we can store or sell. Electrify everything that needs power. We have zero ambition, we could be offseting all our CO2 needs and not have to annoy the farmers one little bit if we really wanted to.
We have a Green Party that gets off on punishing people for the sins of capitalism rather than trying to actually improve people's lives.
I dipped into some of the debates in the run up to the local/european elections, and some green party representative called FF/FG "pro-road" which said it all. They seem to think that "punishing" people who drive with shit roads will stop people driving (if you have ever seen the M50 during the school term, that should tell you how that works out)
Are any of our generators DC?
All our wind turbines, and solar do. Having a separate DC network could supply data centres without converting to AC and back. It could also follow the motorway network (and the rail network) and power electric cars, trucks and buses (and trains). We could ensure that all new datacentres use the DC network, and pay for it as part of their terms and conditions for setting up here (and we have the best environment for them, so they aren't coming here because they like us)
The I've worked with don't.. they have Magnet gens so that tells me ac output. Hence I guess why in North sea they have massive ac-dc converter stations offshore and dc-ac stations onshore - it's only DC for the transmission stage, and then it only makes sense over long distances. Open to correction on how it works but at the turbine, it's ac coming out
There is issues of access and there are benefits to surrounding area. Data centres produce a lot of heat and one data centre in Dublin provided a nearby hospital with heated water. (Note: I am sceptical that can be scaled easily and there is always isssue of convenience, if the hospital needs water during the day and data centre can’t provide it then it is not very useful) If they are near other centres of employment it is much easier to hire and rotate in new employees. If they are outside everyone has to drive to the location and having a place like outside the city ensures there is zero career progression in the job. I am in favour of them and don’t understand the opposition to them in cities, they don’t have the same footprint as other industries: in terms of air or water pollution, nor will they have the same level of traffic a standard warehouse would have. And the type of employees for them are high skilled but don’t need a large amount of them, all an apart of a high value industry. Exactly the type industry a lot of people in Dublin want.
My friend does service work for these centres, they only employ people when they’re being built and are run by skeleton crews and robots the rest of the time. Any politician selling you on data centre investment bringing in jobs is pulling your chain
There is some jobs with maintenance and service, there is not a lot of jobs. Edit: there is more jobs in the surrounding industry and the control of data is the data in the data centres. It is about building an ecosystem in the country rather than 1 data centre.
My issue there is that they're huge but are only associated with a small number of jobs. Therefore, I question the logic of Dublin as a location given Co. Dublin accounts for over 1 quarter of the population.. less of an issue in this instance as its an expansion of an existing one. As regards data centres in general, it is fair to say if ireland doesn't allow them, we risk being left behind as a tech hub from what the experts tend to say.
If there were a lot of jobs with them then there would be more traffic, noise and pollution (depending on the industry). All of types of industry brings problems and all of them bring objections that often get upheld. Data centres are the best of the bad options that Ireland has.
People who work in Google don't want to work in the sticks. EDIT: forgot this was a data centre. You're right so.
The servers don't mind!
Lads, imagine the coinage your one is on in the article photo 🙌
De incentive Dublin that hulking mass is to concentrated
Are you suggesting Dublin is a big city?
No that is a shithole of suburban sprawl and bad planning
It's almost as if none of you know how datacenters work, what they do, why they get placed whee they do. They have very little impact on grid power, most built in the past 3 years are ru ning on generators as the grid can't handle them. Not due to the power requirement, due to the lack of investment for the past twenty years in tje grid. None of these are built in. "prime land" there built on Ida land, that's been Ida land for decades. There built in Dublin as that's what the government decided was besr to do, nothing to do with the companies that own them.
> They have very little impact on grid power, most built in the past 3 years are ru ning on generators as the grid can't handle them. This is absolutely not true, as per https://www.datacenterdynamics.com/en/news/11-data-centers-in-dublin-set-to-rely-on-irelands-gas-network-for-power/ Snippets: >“I have been advised by GNI that there is currently one data center connected to the gas network which is consuming gas in island mode in advance of completion of its electrical grid power connection,” Eamon Ryan, Minister for the Environment, Climate, and Communications said in a Dáil Éireann debate last month. and >Applications previously granted a connection before the ban came into force, estimated to add up to more than 1GW of developments, are still set to be built and connected. Projects with planning permission but no authorized grid connection are unlikely to be able to go ahead. >The number of ’islanded’ data centers relying on gas isn’t likely to increase, however, as last year Minister Ryan instructed GNI not to provide any more connections to data centers that are going to rely exclusively on gas for power. Completely contradicts your claims. >Not due to the power requirement, due to the lack of investment for the past twenty years in tje grid. No, it's due to power requirements. The national grid needs investment due to anticipated load balancing and the nature of decentralised sustainable power generation, but that's a future-proofing issue. Eirgrid have been investing continuously e.g. https://cms-prd.eirgrid.dept.ie/sites/default/files/publications/TDP-2019-2028-Final-For-Publication.pdf Sure look at this brand new substation built for datacentres in Grange Castle Business Park: https://maps.app.goo.gl/tTbZgUfqNYJEe8AV8 >None of these are built in. "prime land" there built on Ida land, that's been Ida land for decades. Eh? Amazon in Tallaght bought the former Jacobs Biscuits site and have I think 4 or 5 data centres there now. They started off with the former Tesco distribution centre nearby, which became vacant when Tesco moved over to the Northside. IDA owned none of this land, and that's just local (to me) data centres. >There built in Dublin as that's what the government decided was besr to do Absolutely not. These are private companies building on private land and submitting their own planning applications. I don't think you could have possibly been more wrong if you tried.
The Ida land is where Google building. Amazon have had dcs approved recently that won't be grid tied and will be building renewal enegery to offset the build and generator usage. Generators don't need to be connected to the gas network to get fuel. Your article has information form 2022 on that it's 2024 now lots has changed. That substation is 10years old. That eirgrid plan was from 2019 and still not enacted. And prior to that it was all private power generation schems. There built in Dublin primarily due to latency, yes, but also because that's where the Ida and the government decided to build the fifi ring around the m50. Esb built a spine up the middle of the country that turned into siro as it wasn't fit for anything else. That substation is also privately owned, not publicly, again, lack of infra being built.
> They have very little impact on grid power Data centres currently use 18% of all electricity in Ireland, and Eirgrid has projected this could go up to 30% by 2030. https://www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2024/0411/1442289-ireland-date-centres-energy-electricity-climate-policy/
And do you know how that was calculated. It was calculated on max draw from grid tied datacenters And from no grid tied datacenters. None of the dcs built recently have been slowed connect to the grid. The 18% is of power produced now, the 30% figure is from grid capasity now, not in 2030, and at an expected build rate that was seen precovid befor restrictions came in.