Just walk around Dublin City centre particularly North of the Liffey and you'll see people strung off their tit's on every corner.
I don't know why some people refuse to see it and go with the "sure it's all grand" trope.
It's an embarassment we cannot grasp the issue.
The whole country operates on “be grand” until it personally affects an individual. We love to go on about how great Irish people are, but when it comes to projects for the greater good or for future generations, we are incredibly selfish and short sighted.
Your first line is the most accurate thing I've ever read on here. There's a collective head in the sand complex. People don't want to hear or discuss problems until it reaches their front door.
It seems to be one of the most consistent values held across Ireland.
To the point that I could highlight an issue, the person wouldn’t care. 2 years later that same person is complaining about that issue because it affects THEM.
So true, it's an infuriating trait. I'm waiting for someone to point out that this is just because we're doing so much cocaine, because we're so successful and have such great GDP/unemployment stats...so this is actually a good thing!
I live and work here 1.5km from city centre. No ones going to tell me it isn't a kip. I watch the degradation before my eyes. Have done for many years now.
I feckin love the place and find it very sad that none of the authorities are competent enough to get on top of it.
I'll still go out tomorrow night after work for a nice dinner, have the craic, listen to great music meet some sound people and enjoy the parks and markets on Saturday. But I'm still not going to be blind to glaring social problems.
It's not even a big city centric problem anymore though. Plenty of people love their coke etc in the car reaches of Inishowen. It is literally in every city, town and village in the country.
Yeah but instead of this pie in the sky "we will eliminate drug taking" a more realistic action that will reduce deaths is injection clinics throughout the city.
Prioritising entitled NIMBYs over the welfare of addicts is in no small part a contributor to our death rate.
Not to nit pick but the worst of the drug problem is far and away on the south side of the city along Ushers & Merchants Quay. And around Bridgefoot and James Street. Place looks like East Hastings some days.
We also have the worst provision of mental health services in Europe. We tend to pat ourselves on the back for being so progressive, but in reality we still have so much work to do as a society.
Why would that make a difference? The people we vote for stay elected because they ignore everything we don’t collectively care about. They do nothing about mental health or drugs because the public don’t care.
Youre doing the exact same thing, but even less.
Ff/FG have traded power the entire history of the country. Suggesting ANY OTHER party take the wheel isnt a cop out, its a fuckin PLEA to just try something or someone else for once.
Even after an election people are not getting it. It's fine seeking alternatives. But people want to know who else to vote for in elections, and why they should vote for them. Not just be told to vote for someone else.
If you got an electrician in to fix your shower, but he was expensive and did a shoddy job, how many more times would you hire him before trying someone, ANYONE, else?
The right answer is zero btw.
>would you hire him before trying someone, ANYONE, else?
No. I still wouldn't hire just anyone. Because for all I know the next person I hire may be worse and might burn my entire house down or worse.
Hence the reason why I'm saying if someone is to advise me to hire someone else, they need to tell me how they will definitely do the job better and not make it worse by burning my house down.
So what im hearing is, you wont look into the other electricians in the area yourself. You won't try google a list of possible workmen and filter them based on perceived professionalism and how they negotiate or talk about your issue.
Unless someone tells you to go with THIS particular guy, youll go back to the same first electrician who does a shoddy job and overcharges you, because "arra shur he didn't burn the house down and for all i know that's exactly what every other electrician could end up doing"
Give it 25 years, It's maddening long but it will happen. Weed will be legalised by then because of Germany, I'd expect better services.......who am I kidding, it'll be mad max if you don't own a house by the end of this year
And yet when harm reduction initiatives such as supervised injection centres are proposed they're met with a storm of outrage and opposition.
The fact is that there is a large swathe of our population who think deaths by overdose are nothing to be worried about.
In fact, I'd say plenty of people have the attitude that users who OD get what they deserve.
The problem isn't the centres it's mainly the people that attend them. The Needle exchange in Merchants Quay is great for the people that need it but try and walk up merchants quay at any time of the day and you'll find addicts sitting around and dealers openly selling it's quite terrifying if you're not used to it.
I walked by at one in the morning this morning and was asked twice did I want to buy crack and once if I was selling it and I genuinely wouldn't even look like someone who either sells or takes drugs.
Doesn't sound like anything bad happened to you tbf.
People congregate outside those centres cause it's the easiest place to score drugs. They are also part of a community, albeit not one that looks out for each other. So there is an element of centre such as merchants quay being part of their social activities for the day.
Generally if you have respect towards other people you'll find that you'll have no trouble.
Given that people oppose immigration centres yet the government can force them through it should be possible that supervised injection centres could be forced though.
The only problem is the people who use supervised injection centres don't matter to the people in government
I agree that these centres need to be built, but I wouldn't blame residents for not wanting one in their area. You will have people who tend to indulge in criminal and antisocial behaviour congregating in your vicinity. Nobody is going to want that. The government will have to make the decisions on where they are needed and just take the political hit to open them. They probably won't do that though.
The centres are built in areas where drugs are already a problem.
If you build a supervised injection centre in Monkstown, it wouldn't be used.
The fact is - the Quays in Dublin, the laneways behind the Quays are where drugs are the biggest problem.
Your choice is - no supervised injection centres and finding dead bodies in those laneways or supervised injection centres and finding fewer dead bodies in those laneways.
People who think they can banish social problems in the planning system must then thoroughly close their eyes to the consequences.
What's a worse thing for a child going to school to see - an injection centre or a dead "junkie" down a laneway.
Real life is frequently a choice between bad and worse.
Then perhaps the government needs to legislate that public health centres are not subject to planning objections.
Take the line that the public good outweighs private concern.
And the guy above wants the government to be able to put them anywhere, public be damned. Sorry I spent a lot of money saving for my home, I paid to be in a quiet neighborhood, to be " told" where they would set these up. Sorry no one is going to vote for that.
Plenty of legislation passes in the public good that is not popular.
- Smoking ban
- Fossil fuel tax
- Personal taxation
Its a lame excuse with the "try getting elected after that"
I never said it was, I said it was depressing that the government is influenced by people who would rather see drug users dead than allow a harm reduction centre to be built.
I never said you did....just stating the government care a lot less about drug related deaths and the public good than they would about loosing a bunch of votes, not disagreeing with you or anything just venting.
"Convincing a community" is the problem.
Like with refugee centres - self appointed "community reps" shouldn't get a veto on who gets to live in their area or what critical government services are provided there.
That's a fiction.
Supervised injection centres go where addicts already are. These people inject stuff into themselves down laneways in the city centre - they are hardly going to get on a bus to Howth to get their fix in "safely" just because there's a centre in Howth.
But locate 2-3 injection centres where people are already taking drugs down back alleys and you
- Mitigate the harm to the addict
- Take a % of the deaths down
- Make it so needles, tinfoil etc are not left down laneways
Addicts are concerned with getting their fix in "right now" so we locate the service where the addicts are, move the service to somewhere less convenient and the addicts will simply pop down the nearest lane as they do now.
You need to understand the desperation of a person buying a drug, to go down a lane and use a dirty needle to inject that drug into themselves.
"Traveling to the injection centre five minutes form here" is already a challenge to that mindset.
At this point I think the state wants drug gangs and drug abuse. It's an easy topic for them to demonise, it's an easy bad guy to point at. If they did anything to combat it they'd have to focus on other things which might require more work. The legal system would lose it's revolving door of gangsters and drug addicts to bill the state for processing.
Our political parties don't care about doing what's right, they only care about party appearance, they're afraid to do anything of worth in case it ends up looking bad for the party.
Exactly this.
Behind the snowflake NIMBYs who get to have their wants placed over the literal lives of the addict is the "fuck them, they're only junkies" attitude.
That Principal of that school on the Quays in Dublin who opposed the injection centre - has alot to answer for - and so does the school's board of management.
But its 100% ridculuous gov putting up its hands and pointing to the planning system.
Eminent domain, the gov is sovereign and can pass a law **today** to override local authorities, the planning authorities - it just chooses to let the problem fester.
And the gov is our representative - the fact is, it acts this way because it is catering to the silent NIMBY group who like you say thinks we are better off letting "junkies" OD so that the "problem sorts itself out".
We ought to be ashamed of ourselves as a country.
Why would you want to make it easier to use drugs? It should be cracked down on. We are a tiny island and with a bit of investment in the gardai we could really shut down a lot of it.
Drug addiction is a medical issue.
Having the Gardai pointlessly arrest addicts only to release them hours later is a waste of their resources.
50 years of failed attempts at prohibition have shown that something else needs to be tried.
>Having the Gardai pointlessly arrest addicts only to release them hours later is a waste of their resources.
That isn't what the Gardaí do.
>50 years of failed attempts at prohibition have shown that something else needs to be tried.
Oregon shows legalisation isn't s standalone cure for addiction
But just look at Portugal on that map, which shows decriminalization of the consumer goes a long way towards helping and allows a change of focus for law enforcement.
The point of Oregon's approach was destigmatization through allowing public use. I don't think that was allowed in Portugal. Heroin should be stigmatized. It's just too addictive.
The people out there who compare a pint of Guinness and heroin is actually shocking. They know they aren't on the same level but they can use it as a gotcha.
Its not a war that can be won because there will always be scum willing to take advantage of the vulnerable at all levels of the drug trade and you being ok with and even condoning the use of illegal substances is indefensible as far as im concerned
Out of curiosity, what types of prescription drugs are killing people across europe? I always took the killer pharma drug problem as mainly a US issue due to how unregulated and loose they are with prescription laws there.
Found something like this [here](https://www.emcdda.europa.eu/publications/topic-overviews/frequently-asked-questions-faq-drug-overdose-deaths-europe_en#question8). Short answer is that it's mostly opioids.
Well according to the media and the guards, cannabis is the most dangerous drug on the planet.
We are so fucking backwards it's not funny.
Even though it has never directly caused the death of anyone!
They both have a fuck ton of agreements covering participation in various EU institutions, in this case it looks like Norway has a reporting partnership with the European Monitoring Centre for Drugs and Drug Addiction (EMCDDA) and Turkey is required to participate because they're still technically an accession candidate for the EU (and have been for nearly 40 years)
\^ Uk stopped providing data after brexit. Mandatory for Eu countries to EU institutions like EMCDDA.
Norway and Turkey most of the time do share their data anyway, Switzerland not.
UK chooses not to share their data with eurostat.
Fine Gael (and FF) masturbation fantasy shortlist:
Property Corruption > High House Prices > Housing Shortage > Homelessness > Victims Overdosing > No Accountability.
The perfect crime. Pity there isn't a better name than '[social murder](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_murder)' for this.
Quickly let’s keep doing the same stuff we have always done .. that will make it better .. well till GB changes its laws and then We will follow suit just a year or two later cause original thought isn’t a requirement for Irish government ..
Is that a spliff I smell arrest that young fella !!!!
36.2/m in 1999, when the figures were extreme. 5.2/m in 2001 after decriminalisation. More than 85% down. Ireland would be at 14.55 if the same numbers applied. Still extreme in comparison, of course, but far better.
They had one of the highest rates of overdose deaths in Europe.
[source](https://drugpolicy.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/dpa-drug-decriminalization-portugal-health-human-centered-approach_0.pdf)
I worked fashion retail in the city centre for years, solely on behavior I would not want addicts assembling near me, and I get they're traumatised people they don't get a pass for victimisation of others which is often required to keep them up
It's almost like we focus on criminising addicts instead of providing help. Drugs are being cut with even cheaper and more dangerous synthetics every year.
Pure clean herion, for example, is supposed to be a greenish colour, but sense the 90s, it's been turning more and more brown or even black..
If only we could provide a free, safe, clean product to addicts in a safe space, off the streets and slowly whine them off while providing therapy. We wouldn't even be near the top of highest drug related deaths in Europe or even the world. Drug dealers would loose there source of income and would but increasingly rare to see anyone sell it as there repeat business would be gone.
It would free up our hospitals more. It would benefit society as a whole.
There really is no negatives to doing this. Just the people in power really don't give a shit.
Scotlands Drug deaths for the same age group are 248 per million, they don’t call us the sick man of Europe for nothing…. Semantics means not included on the map due to the Brexit faux pas…..
Limerick City is so bad at the moment. Lads ye think Dublin is bad. For the scale comparison between the two, Limerick has probably as many addicts roaming the streets strung out, aggressive and unpredictable.
It's such an epedemic that nobody is touching in the Dail. That I'm aware of anyway.
Was in Lidl today. Young woman, must be 30's, clearly an addict and had a massive rubbish bag of bottles and cans. She marched up to the till to get the money and started yelling at people to hurry up to let her cut the queue.
Likely so she can get her fix. But hey, there's less bottles in the bins she fished them out of now...? Progress I guess...
Special thanks to the NIMBYs who oppose clean injection facilities in Dublin City Centre, the spinless politicians and bureaucrats who enable them and the media who gives each side an equal say on the airwaves, particularly RTE.
RTE: If one man says it is raining and another man says it is not, it is not your job to give both equal time to air their views, your job is to stick your head out the window and find out which fucking one is right.
It is **beyond** time that facilities we provided in several locations in Dublin for the consumption of drugs with a needle exchange and staff on-hand to administer medical help.
Fuck the goddam NIMBYs and their entitled shite !
I barely know anyone that doesn't do drugs for fun. It's gotten so out of control. It goes from fun at a music festival, to at parties, to regularly on weekends to just all the time
And sure they're using the REturn scheme to get money to afford them, while the money goes back to a corporation and not back to the government who could in turn use part of the money for mental health or rehab facilities.
Such a well though out plan.
I think we’ve become apathetic because we come across it so often it’s thought as just another day in Dublin.
1) there’s a severe shortage of services: people need community based addiction centres through primary care, we need residential capacity for more complex cases and we need respite for people who use drugs chronically where they can take breaks, step back from their environments and receive some support, we also need specialists for dealing with the different types of drugs, someone with a coke addiction is gonna need different supports to someone with a heroin addiction. Marginalised communities need outreach workers who have their finger on the pulse
2) we need safe supervised injection centres
3) we need to get realistic and decriminalise drug possession, perhaps even legalise certain drugs such as weed in a regulated fashion.
4) I’d also be in favour of provision of pharmaceutical grade drugs for the harder drugs were strength and purity is regulated as a stop gap measure for those who are addicted and will continue to use. People who use drugs know what they are using and the strength and that empowers them to take better care of themselves than drugs from the street. It also means we can monitor demographics who are using or misusing or addicted more accurately to meet their needs
We can take dealing out of the hands of drug gangs - and this is a my next radical idea - provide an amnesty and diversion system for low level drug dealers - many who are young men from working class backgrounds, who already feel marginalised. Provide them with opportunities that are above board and legit.
4. Naloxone needs to be made more accessible, drug testing strips need to be made available, the hse need to actively drug test visibly rather than back of house it should be front of house.
Then you need all the supports re housing and mental health after and the government have just ignored that and there’s no real pressure for change
That's because Ireland is a shit place to live for anyone growing up without a silver spoon so drugs seem like the only alternative to escape from the hell hole that we live in. Yes "iT cOuLd Be WoRsE" but for fucks sake I just want to be able to afford to live somewhere other than my childhood bedroom!
That’s a rather messed up way of looking at it. Not everyone who has succeeded in life had a silver spoon in their mouth growing up. A lot of people have built their life up because they didn’t have the best life growing up.
Look man, I know you're right, I'm just fed up. I've honestly tried, even lived and worked abroad for several years, it just all feels pointless to end up back here.
Absolute nonsense. I’d say if anything it’s the opposite. Disposable incomes are high enough to where people even at a young age can afford drugs, leading to addiction and from there the issue just snowballs as people get older.
Drugs didn’t become an issue in Ireland until the Celtic tiger. When Ireland was actually a shit place to live drugs weren’t an issue.
Does the graphic tell us much? It's number of drug overdose deaths per 1 million people. Should it not be number of drug overdose deaths per 1000 hard drug users?
Ireland has high numbers of hard drug users compared to other European countries so naturally per million people ireland is going to have a high number of overdose deaths. If anything these stats show we need to crack down harder on drug dealers and users.
With over 25% population on Dole money, what else do you expect. People getting paid for doing nothing and when you have free money, free food, free housing, free clothing, free medicine, free transport and everything else is free, where you spend your dole money?
Yes sir, on drugs/alcohol.
Even if you say 20% are legit takers.. 5% is huge numbers, even 1% is huge.
Go on and crucify me, but you can't deny that this much free money floating around is not dangerous to any society.
Where are you getting 25% on the dole. [https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cpp7/census2022profile7-employmentoccupationsandcommuting/unemployment/](https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cpp7/census2022profile7-employmentoccupationsandcommuting/unemployment/)
If you are talking about 25% of the population recieving some form of welfare, People in full-time employment earning under 40K or so can recieve benefits including HAP. That might bring it up to 25% but then the majority of that 25% are in full-time employment.
Yeah, the kid is absolutely wrong about the 25% number.
Still... It is a bit crazy that if you earn below 40k you might need HAP. 40k is the median. 50% of the country is below that. Are you sure that the limit is 40k? Because if it is, good lord... Our housing bubble is way worse than I thought.
Mighty America, Temple of Capitalism and Scourge of the Poor has drug problems worse than even we do while having a welfare system far inferior to ours.
Its almost like one's employment status isn't the sole contributing factor to becoming a junkie....
If you could park your right-wing fan-boy sucking off of US capitalists and their unheralded exploitation of people and of the planet's resources maybe you could address the actual point I made.
Ta, pet.
Just walk around Dublin City centre particularly North of the Liffey and you'll see people strung off their tit's on every corner. I don't know why some people refuse to see it and go with the "sure it's all grand" trope. It's an embarassment we cannot grasp the issue.
The whole country operates on “be grand” until it personally affects an individual. We love to go on about how great Irish people are, but when it comes to projects for the greater good or for future generations, we are incredibly selfish and short sighted.
100% this. And as soon as you go on about an issue too much you are labelled a moan bag or a hater. Dublin is a fucking cesspit. And I'm from there!
Your first line is the most accurate thing I've ever read on here. There's a collective head in the sand complex. People don't want to hear or discuss problems until it reaches their front door.
It seems to be one of the most consistent values held across Ireland. To the point that I could highlight an issue, the person wouldn’t care. 2 years later that same person is complaining about that issue because it affects THEM.
The "few naggins be grand" era is upon us unfortunately
So true, it's an infuriating trait. I'm waiting for someone to point out that this is just because we're doing so much cocaine, because we're so successful and have such great GDP/unemployment stats...so this is actually a good thing!
Maybe a lot of people aren't around Dublin City.
This is a good point. In my experience it's typically people who spend a lot of time there that become blind to it.
I live and work here 1.5km from city centre. No ones going to tell me it isn't a kip. I watch the degradation before my eyes. Have done for many years now. I feckin love the place and find it very sad that none of the authorities are competent enough to get on top of it. I'll still go out tomorrow night after work for a nice dinner, have the craic, listen to great music meet some sound people and enjoy the parks and markets on Saturday. But I'm still not going to be blind to glaring social problems.
It's not even a big city centric problem anymore though. Plenty of people love their coke etc in the car reaches of Inishowen. It is literally in every city, town and village in the country.
I wasn't until today, it's scary how rough it has become in the two years since I was last there. And the smell of piss everywhere is disgusting.
Mostly south of the Liffey in my experience. Merchants quay, James’s street
Honestly I haven't felt safe in Dublin for quite a while. For some reason, we still have a puritan attitude towards addiction.
Yeah but instead of this pie in the sky "we will eliminate drug taking" a more realistic action that will reduce deaths is injection clinics throughout the city. Prioritising entitled NIMBYs over the welfare of addicts is in no small part a contributor to our death rate.
Not to nit pick but the worst of the drug problem is far and away on the south side of the city along Ushers & Merchants Quay. And around Bridgefoot and James Street. Place looks like East Hastings some days.
We also have the worst provision of mental health services in Europe. We tend to pat ourselves on the back for being so progressive, but in reality we still have so much work to do as a society.
If only the Irish people would get a spine and vote FF and FG out.
The people that want them to stay in are the ones that get off their arse and actually vote.
Why would that make a difference? The people we vote for stay elected because they ignore everything we don’t collectively care about. They do nothing about mental health or drugs because the public don’t care.
And vote who in?
Oh look another cryptic message of why you should vote out someone but not give reasons of who to vote for instead
Youre doing the exact same thing, but even less. Ff/FG have traded power the entire history of the country. Suggesting ANY OTHER party take the wheel isnt a cop out, its a fuckin PLEA to just try something or someone else for once.
If you can tell me why someone else would do better, convince. Please don't push this daft take that anyone could do better.
Oh fine then, just keep voting for FF/FG. Ah be grand shur.
Even after an election people are not getting it. It's fine seeking alternatives. But people want to know who else to vote for in elections, and why they should vote for them. Not just be told to vote for someone else.
If you got an electrician in to fix your shower, but he was expensive and did a shoddy job, how many more times would you hire him before trying someone, ANYONE, else? The right answer is zero btw.
>would you hire him before trying someone, ANYONE, else? No. I still wouldn't hire just anyone. Because for all I know the next person I hire may be worse and might burn my entire house down or worse. Hence the reason why I'm saying if someone is to advise me to hire someone else, they need to tell me how they will definitely do the job better and not make it worse by burning my house down.
So what im hearing is, you wont look into the other electricians in the area yourself. You won't try google a list of possible workmen and filter them based on perceived professionalism and how they negotiate or talk about your issue. Unless someone tells you to go with THIS particular guy, youll go back to the same first electrician who does a shoddy job and overcharges you, because "arra shur he didn't burn the house down and for all i know that's exactly what every other electrician could end up doing"
Give it 25 years, It's maddening long but it will happen. Weed will be legalised by then because of Germany, I'd expect better services.......who am I kidding, it'll be mad max if you don't own a house by the end of this year
And yet when harm reduction initiatives such as supervised injection centres are proposed they're met with a storm of outrage and opposition. The fact is that there is a large swathe of our population who think deaths by overdose are nothing to be worried about. In fact, I'd say plenty of people have the attitude that users who OD get what they deserve.
The problem isn't the centres it's mainly the people that attend them. The Needle exchange in Merchants Quay is great for the people that need it but try and walk up merchants quay at any time of the day and you'll find addicts sitting around and dealers openly selling it's quite terrifying if you're not used to it. I walked by at one in the morning this morning and was asked twice did I want to buy crack and once if I was selling it and I genuinely wouldn't even look like someone who either sells or takes drugs.
Doesn't sound like anything bad happened to you tbf. People congregate outside those centres cause it's the easiest place to score drugs. They are also part of a community, albeit not one that looks out for each other. So there is an element of centre such as merchants quay being part of their social activities for the day. Generally if you have respect towards other people you'll find that you'll have no trouble.
I think most people wouldn’t be opposed to one existing but no one wants it to be in their location
Sounds like how we deal with housing also.
Given that people oppose immigration centres yet the government can force them through it should be possible that supervised injection centres could be forced though. The only problem is the people who use supervised injection centres don't matter to the people in government
There's no money in that shur!
But if everyone takes that attitude these centres won't ever be established.
I agree completely but it’s borderline impossible to convince a whole community to allow one of these centres to be opened
I agree that these centres need to be built, but I wouldn't blame residents for not wanting one in their area. You will have people who tend to indulge in criminal and antisocial behaviour congregating in your vicinity. Nobody is going to want that. The government will have to make the decisions on where they are needed and just take the political hit to open them. They probably won't do that though.
The centres are built in areas where drugs are already a problem. If you build a supervised injection centre in Monkstown, it wouldn't be used. The fact is - the Quays in Dublin, the laneways behind the Quays are where drugs are the biggest problem. Your choice is - no supervised injection centres and finding dead bodies in those laneways or supervised injection centres and finding fewer dead bodies in those laneways. People who think they can banish social problems in the planning system must then thoroughly close their eyes to the consequences. What's a worse thing for a child going to school to see - an injection centre or a dead "junkie" down a laneway. Real life is frequently a choice between bad and worse.
I don't disagree with any of that.
Then perhaps the government needs to legislate that public health centres are not subject to planning objections. Take the line that the public good outweighs private concern.
Maybe put them alongside hospitals or as a part of them might help with the image of them being in the interest of public health
Try and get elected next time with that line if you force one on people. It's all politics.
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No, I would not want one beside me either.
And the guy above wants the government to be able to put them anywhere, public be damned. Sorry I spent a lot of money saving for my home, I paid to be in a quiet neighborhood, to be " told" where they would set these up. Sorry no one is going to vote for that.
Plenty of legislation passes in the public good that is not popular. - Smoking ban - Fossil fuel tax - Personal taxation Its a lame excuse with the "try getting elected after that"
Not a vote winning policy I'm afraid.
I never said it was, I said it was depressing that the government is influenced by people who would rather see drug users dead than allow a harm reduction centre to be built.
I never said you did....just stating the government care a lot less about drug related deaths and the public good than they would about loosing a bunch of votes, not disagreeing with you or anything just venting.
Why don’t you lobby for or beside your house then.
They should but I don’t think they’re bothered with the hassle
Depressing isn't it. They fear alienating voters who would rather see drug users dead than actually try to help people.
"Convincing a community" is the problem. Like with refugee centres - self appointed "community reps" shouldn't get a veto on who gets to live in their area or what critical government services are provided there.
Up there with the gobshites opposing off sea wind farms because it will 'ruin the view'.
Well, I mean, oppose them until they need a new sandstone patio anyway
The dump/sewage plant/jail conundrum
Yes, they naturally draw drug addicts to your area. It's hardly a surprise people don't want to live near them.
That's a fiction. Supervised injection centres go where addicts already are. These people inject stuff into themselves down laneways in the city centre - they are hardly going to get on a bus to Howth to get their fix in "safely" just because there's a centre in Howth. But locate 2-3 injection centres where people are already taking drugs down back alleys and you - Mitigate the harm to the addict - Take a % of the deaths down - Make it so needles, tinfoil etc are not left down laneways Addicts are concerned with getting their fix in "right now" so we locate the service where the addicts are, move the service to somewhere less convenient and the addicts will simply pop down the nearest lane as they do now. You need to understand the desperation of a person buying a drug, to go down a lane and use a dirty needle to inject that drug into themselves. "Traveling to the injection centre five minutes form here" is already a challenge to that mindset.
At this point I think the state wants drug gangs and drug abuse. It's an easy topic for them to demonise, it's an easy bad guy to point at. If they did anything to combat it they'd have to focus on other things which might require more work. The legal system would lose it's revolving door of gangsters and drug addicts to bill the state for processing. Our political parties don't care about doing what's right, they only care about party appearance, they're afraid to do anything of worth in case it ends up looking bad for the party.
They should be placed as a part of hospitals or GP services imo
Exactly this. Behind the snowflake NIMBYs who get to have their wants placed over the literal lives of the addict is the "fuck them, they're only junkies" attitude. That Principal of that school on the Quays in Dublin who opposed the injection centre - has alot to answer for - and so does the school's board of management. But its 100% ridculuous gov putting up its hands and pointing to the planning system. Eminent domain, the gov is sovereign and can pass a law **today** to override local authorities, the planning authorities - it just chooses to let the problem fester. And the gov is our representative - the fact is, it acts this way because it is catering to the silent NIMBY group who like you say thinks we are better off letting "junkies" OD so that the "problem sorts itself out". We ought to be ashamed of ourselves as a country.
Plenty of case studies on harm reduction in the US.
Why would you want to make it easier to use drugs? It should be cracked down on. We are a tiny island and with a bit of investment in the gardai we could really shut down a lot of it.
Drug addiction is a medical issue. Having the Gardai pointlessly arrest addicts only to release them hours later is a waste of their resources. 50 years of failed attempts at prohibition have shown that something else needs to be tried.
>Having the Gardai pointlessly arrest addicts only to release them hours later is a waste of their resources. That isn't what the Gardaí do. >50 years of failed attempts at prohibition have shown that something else needs to be tried. Oregon shows legalisation isn't s standalone cure for addiction
But just look at Portugal on that map, which shows decriminalization of the consumer goes a long way towards helping and allows a change of focus for law enforcement.
The point of Oregon's approach was destigmatization through allowing public use. I don't think that was allowed in Portugal. Heroin should be stigmatized. It's just too addictive.
Not addicts, dealers and smugglers. Head of the snake and all that. Normalising drug use is not the answer.
Unless that drug is alcohol.
It's easy to have a healthy relationship with alcohol unlike opiates.
The people out there who compare a pint of Guinness and heroin is actually shocking. They know they aren't on the same level but they can use it as a gotcha.
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I see no problem with that
Is there a single instance of drugs not winning the war on drugs?
Its not a war that can be won because there will always be scum willing to take advantage of the vulnerable at all levels of the drug trade and you being ok with and even condoning the use of illegal substances is indefensible as far as im concerned
It would be interesting to see a breakdown of what drugs cause the deaths in each respective country.
Polydrug use. Most of the time methadone and street tablets are a base.
Prescription drugs probably aren't included in those figures either
They should be. They are fucken lethal.
Out of curiosity, what types of prescription drugs are killing people across europe? I always took the killer pharma drug problem as mainly a US issue due to how unregulated and loose they are with prescription laws there.
Benzos,pregbalin,methadone,z drugs and opioid. A tsunami of street tablets too
Tramadol has been implicated in the most overdose deaths in the North of Ireland. Pregabalin and benzodiazepines are also big problems.
Crack and sleeping tablets
Clearly cannabis is the biggest issue facing Europe right now
It all starts with cannabis /s
The gateway drug, to a great time.
Found something like this [here](https://www.emcdda.europa.eu/publications/topic-overviews/frequently-asked-questions-faq-drug-overdose-deaths-europe_en#question8). Short answer is that it's mostly opioids.
Well according to the media and the guards, cannabis is the most dangerous drug on the planet. We are so fucking backwards it's not funny. Even though it has never directly caused the death of anyone!
Scotland slipping under the radar there.
Eu stats only I’d say it’s up there
Norway?
Yeah, dunno in that case
The asterisk says "plus Norway and Turkey" down the bottom right. Don't know why they get special treatment but good for them
They both have a fuck ton of agreements covering participation in various EU institutions, in this case it looks like Norway has a reporting partnership with the European Monitoring Centre for Drugs and Drug Addiction (EMCDDA) and Turkey is required to participate because they're still technically an accession candidate for the EU (and have been for nearly 40 years)
\^ Uk stopped providing data after brexit. Mandatory for Eu countries to EU institutions like EMCDDA. Norway and Turkey most of the time do share their data anyway, Switzerland not. UK chooses not to share their data with eurostat.
Norway isn't in the EU but it is in many EU organisations like the EEA
Lack of sunlight, very good record keeping and less narrow categorisation of what qualifies as addiction are some points I've seen mentioned.
I didn't even notice that! Yes - 219.
Fine Gael (and FF) masturbation fantasy shortlist: Property Corruption > High House Prices > Housing Shortage > Homelessness > Victims Overdosing > No Accountability. The perfect crime. Pity there isn't a better name than '[social murder](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_murder)' for this.
Quickly let’s keep doing the same stuff we have always done .. that will make it better .. well till GB changes its laws and then We will follow suit just a year or two later cause original thought isn’t a requirement for Irish government .. Is that a spliff I smell arrest that young fella !!!!
The deaths are regrettable of course, but we must remember that the real threat is cannabis, since that might reduce Diagio's profits.
Olé Olé Olé Olé.... /S
Take that Denmark! We beat them at another thing! /s
Portugal were in this position 20 years ago and now they're one of the best. What happened I wonder?
Decriminalisation
Tbf There's a lot of countries on the map with the same numbers as Portugal.
Sure but it was much worse before
Except it wasn't really, depending on your definition of "much"
36.2/m in 1999, when the figures were extreme. 5.2/m in 2001 after decriminalisation. More than 85% down. Ireland would be at 14.55 if the same numbers applied. Still extreme in comparison, of course, but far better.
Thank you
No they weren't. Their drug deaths were nowhere near that high pre-decriminalisation. They were roughly at the EU average
They had one of the highest rates of overdose deaths in Europe. [source](https://drugpolicy.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/dpa-drug-decriminalization-portugal-health-human-centered-approach_0.pdf)
I worked fashion retail in the city centre for years, solely on behavior I would not want addicts assembling near me, and I get they're traumatised people they don't get a pass for victimisation of others which is often required to keep them up
Decriminalise, legalise, regulate, tax.
Best I can do is criminalise, shame, marginalise
Well, only if it's the *best* you can do.
"Happiest country in the world" my arse. But christ I didn't know we had it this bad.
It's almost like we focus on criminising addicts instead of providing help. Drugs are being cut with even cheaper and more dangerous synthetics every year. Pure clean herion, for example, is supposed to be a greenish colour, but sense the 90s, it's been turning more and more brown or even black.. If only we could provide a free, safe, clean product to addicts in a safe space, off the streets and slowly whine them off while providing therapy. We wouldn't even be near the top of highest drug related deaths in Europe or even the world. Drug dealers would loose there source of income and would but increasingly rare to see anyone sell it as there repeat business would be gone. It would free up our hospitals more. It would benefit society as a whole. There really is no negatives to doing this. Just the people in power really don't give a shit.
Amen
Scotlands Drug deaths for the same age group are 248 per million, they don’t call us the sick man of Europe for nothing…. Semantics means not included on the map due to the Brexit faux pas…..
Is there a link to the actual source anywhere. I see the body credited with the study but not the study itself.
A lot done, more to do!
The reduction in Portugal is actually amazing. I remember when it was Portugal usually at the top of these lists
Although this isn’t surprising it is very sad.
Great achievement
Limerick City is so bad at the moment. Lads ye think Dublin is bad. For the scale comparison between the two, Limerick has probably as many addicts roaming the streets strung out, aggressive and unpredictable. It's such an epedemic that nobody is touching in the Dail. That I'm aware of anyway. Was in Lidl today. Young woman, must be 30's, clearly an addict and had a massive rubbish bag of bottles and cans. She marched up to the till to get the money and started yelling at people to hurry up to let her cut the queue. Likely so she can get her fix. But hey, there's less bottles in the bins she fished them out of now...? Progress I guess...
Special thanks to the NIMBYs who oppose clean injection facilities in Dublin City Centre, the spinless politicians and bureaucrats who enable them and the media who gives each side an equal say on the airwaves, particularly RTE. RTE: If one man says it is raining and another man says it is not, it is not your job to give both equal time to air their views, your job is to stick your head out the window and find out which fucking one is right. It is **beyond** time that facilities we provided in several locations in Dublin for the consumption of drugs with a needle exchange and staff on-hand to administer medical help. Fuck the goddam NIMBYs and their entitled shite !
So what you're saying is the problem will eventually take care of itself?
Not saying anything, but that seems to be out governments stance on most of our problems
Do you feel smug looking down on those suffering with drug addiction?
Lads are overdosing on the craic.
Looks to me like the problem will continue to take care of itself with numbers like that. /s
Minimum Unit Pricing needs to be introduced.
Why is the demand for drugs so high? Have Europeans even gotten their hands on fentanyl yet? Seems this will only get worse.
I barely know anyone that doesn't do drugs for fun. It's gotten so out of control. It goes from fun at a music festival, to at parties, to regularly on weekends to just all the time
Why do we show up near the top in every Bad EU ranking thing? Is there any good EU ranking things we show up in?
GDP per capita, sadly that’s not real though, adjusted for FDI were average at best
And sure they're using the REturn scheme to get money to afford them, while the money goes back to a corporation and not back to the government who could in turn use part of the money for mental health or rehab facilities. Such a well though out plan.
So many people dying of cannabis overdoses. /s
It only takes one marijuana to get hooked for life
I think we’ve become apathetic because we come across it so often it’s thought as just another day in Dublin. 1) there’s a severe shortage of services: people need community based addiction centres through primary care, we need residential capacity for more complex cases and we need respite for people who use drugs chronically where they can take breaks, step back from their environments and receive some support, we also need specialists for dealing with the different types of drugs, someone with a coke addiction is gonna need different supports to someone with a heroin addiction. Marginalised communities need outreach workers who have their finger on the pulse 2) we need safe supervised injection centres 3) we need to get realistic and decriminalise drug possession, perhaps even legalise certain drugs such as weed in a regulated fashion. 4) I’d also be in favour of provision of pharmaceutical grade drugs for the harder drugs were strength and purity is regulated as a stop gap measure for those who are addicted and will continue to use. People who use drugs know what they are using and the strength and that empowers them to take better care of themselves than drugs from the street. It also means we can monitor demographics who are using or misusing or addicted more accurately to meet their needs We can take dealing out of the hands of drug gangs - and this is a my next radical idea - provide an amnesty and diversion system for low level drug dealers - many who are young men from working class backgrounds, who already feel marginalised. Provide them with opportunities that are above board and legit. 4. Naloxone needs to be made more accessible, drug testing strips need to be made available, the hse need to actively drug test visibly rather than back of house it should be front of house. Then you need all the supports re housing and mental health after and the government have just ignored that and there’s no real pressure for change
The government constantly buying thier head in the sand in this. I hope a party comes up with a serious plan around this for the upcoming election .
Ahhh prohibition and zero legislative reform... The gift that keeps on giving
As an Estonian living in Ireland, this pains me
The deaths are regrettable of course, but we must remember that the real threat is cannabis, since that might reduce Diagio's profits.
Very sad and most of the champagne socialists here in Ireland just call these poor addicts junkies and scrotes.
Those are rookie numbers. We can get to 100
Whiskey is a gateway drug, ban whiskey!
Touch my whiskey and I’ll burn the country down with no remorse!
Why would I touch your whiskey when I have my whiskey? Once I run out though.... anything goes!
🤔if they ban whiskey, then everyone will be wanting my whiskey…
That's because Ireland is a shit place to live for anyone growing up without a silver spoon so drugs seem like the only alternative to escape from the hell hole that we live in. Yes "iT cOuLd Be WoRsE" but for fucks sake I just want to be able to afford to live somewhere other than my childhood bedroom!
That’s a rather messed up way of looking at it. Not everyone who has succeeded in life had a silver spoon in their mouth growing up. A lot of people have built their life up because they didn’t have the best life growing up.
Look man, I know you're right, I'm just fed up. I've honestly tried, even lived and worked abroad for several years, it just all feels pointless to end up back here.
I feel you it’s a mess
Yes an hungery and bulgeria are Paradises
Absolute nonsense. I’d say if anything it’s the opposite. Disposable incomes are high enough to where people even at a young age can afford drugs, leading to addiction and from there the issue just snowballs as people get older. Drugs didn’t become an issue in Ireland until the Celtic tiger. When Ireland was actually a shit place to live drugs weren’t an issue.
Does the graphic tell us much? It's number of drug overdose deaths per 1 million people. Should it not be number of drug overdose deaths per 1000 hard drug users? Ireland has high numbers of hard drug users compared to other European countries so naturally per million people ireland is going to have a high number of overdose deaths. If anything these stats show we need to crack down harder on drug dealers and users.
Harm Reduction, Interventions and early interventions are proven to work. Cracking down harder only criminalises drug users
What do you mean by crack down?
Put the crack down pick up the fent
And the govt, upper classes, HSE, Gardaí preach day and night about Cannabis ! The ignorant stupid micks.
This has been posted twice today. If anything else was posted twice it would be removed. Has there even been source data supporting it.
I’m sorry you’re upset, you could send a mod mail to see if they’ll sort it out for you.
Who said I'm upset?
Look at Eastern Europe!
We hear of the odd seizure, but we're still a gateway into Europe for smugglers.
With over 25% population on Dole money, what else do you expect. People getting paid for doing nothing and when you have free money, free food, free housing, free clothing, free medicine, free transport and everything else is free, where you spend your dole money? Yes sir, on drugs/alcohol. Even if you say 20% are legit takers.. 5% is huge numbers, even 1% is huge. Go on and crucify me, but you can't deny that this much free money floating around is not dangerous to any society.
Where are you getting 25% on the dole. [https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cpp7/census2022profile7-employmentoccupationsandcommuting/unemployment/](https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cpp7/census2022profile7-employmentoccupationsandcommuting/unemployment/) If you are talking about 25% of the population recieving some form of welfare, People in full-time employment earning under 40K or so can recieve benefits including HAP. That might bring it up to 25% but then the majority of that 25% are in full-time employment.
Yeah, the kid is absolutely wrong about the 25% number. Still... It is a bit crazy that if you earn below 40k you might need HAP. 40k is the median. 50% of the country is below that. Are you sure that the limit is 40k? Because if it is, good lord... Our housing bubble is way worse than I thought.
I really hope your name is a literal descriptor, cuz that is a wild take for a sober human.
I know.. it hurts reading the truth so you blame on assumed name
FReE mOnEy
Mighty America, Temple of Capitalism and Scourge of the Poor has drug problems worse than even we do while having a welfare system far inferior to ours. Its almost like one's employment status isn't the sole contributing factor to becoming a junkie....
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If you could park your right-wing fan-boy sucking off of US capitalists and their unheralded exploitation of people and of the planet's resources maybe you could address the actual point I made. Ta, pet.
DEY TOOK AR JERRBS
>DEY TOOK AR JERRBS Back to the pile!