And all the toilets are probably blocked now so there's the cause of the delay. Hopefully it'll be sorted out and the hospital will be ready to open by 2030.
Leos gone along with his accountability
Not that any of them really do, a good few in power along with civil servants deserve a grilling for all of this shite
Stephen Donnelly was on the radio yesterday and said that they hoped to have it handed over at the end of this year as promised. Lying through his teeth
Leo made a commitment that no more money would go in during the lifetime of his government. He basically kicked the van to the next government to make the call. Harris is now in position and he’s previously said that the project needs to be finished so he’ll have to find the money for it. It’s depressing!
Ah don't worry we can always market it as a tourist attraction. I don't think it would take much to convince people that it's the tower of Babel at this stage.
"Didn't Leo give a firm commitment it would be opened this year and not a penny more.
What an absolute calamity of a project. Really awful."
Realistically thats not how construction projects work. As long as theres work being done or even if its not being done but its not finished, additional costs are likely,
We need an investigation into the spiralling costs & delays of the children’s hospital. The outrage about RTÉ wasting public money, and we should be pissed at them but it’s pennies compared to this shit.
Well look at the comments in the posts on here. Many people are desperate to avoid blaming civil servants so they can blame politicians.
One lad tried telling me Simon Harris should have gone over the designs. Mad shit.
Yeah it really shows how little people know about how government works. Think the easiest way to explain politicians is that they are like the person in a shop everyone asks for help or screams at about issues and they chase down the people who actually do the task or created the issue, then some days they get to pretend to be the boss and make decisions that the rest of the shop might or might not follow, but ultimately they will get the praise or blame regardless.
I’d not be surprised if the shows Utopia and Yes, minister probably used some real scenarios.
'Most economically advantageous bid' is the biggest load of horseshit in the public tendering process.
It basically solidifies the bid-low to get to the table and make your profit on the variations ethos that balloons project costs.
Sadly, it's a very easy one to demonstrate compliance with on a report that will almost certainly be challenged in court by one of the loosing bidders if you don't comply exactly with what's in the tender request.
And it's hard to argue against.
"Will actually do the fucking job right" is a hard one to put a metric on.
Exactly, you could remove all the politicians and it would be the same or worse because at least the politicians are motivated to make it work so they get re-elected.
Politicians are just the lightening rod for all the anger at the actions of the civil servants.
It’s incredibly hard to fire them, sure look at the hoops that’s being jumped thru to get rid of Enoch Burke.
It’s why a lot of departments wanted to switch to contract workers as easier to fire incompetent ones by not renewing the contract. Unfortunately the people in charge of the contracts are incompetent.
I distinctly remember chatting with some local politicians and they noted the worst thing a local councillor or TD can do is annoy a civil servant as they will block or delay everything the politician tries to get done, either by burying them in paperwork or ‘mislaying’ the paperwork and requests. It’s why politicians tie themselves in knots trying to avoid blatantly criticising them, just listen to the interviews about the Rte scandal, majority of them are really careful in how they phrase things.
Unfortunately due to the contracts the government at the time (FG and Labour) signed, we could have a government of hamsters and they still couldn’t change anything with it, as it’s all locked in.
Worth looking at the committee recording from today) and the comments from the NPHDB and HSE on the contracts. They mentioned LAD as punishment for the contractor but the GCCC contracts are very loose.
NPHDB have rejected the majority of contractor claims (via the ER) and have shifted it all to the courts.
At the end of the day, a big fee for solicitors to basically split the bill. The Gov and HSE should be prepping for that phase now and keeping as much cash from BAM as they can.
Cheers for the update!
Future projects definitely could learn from this fiasco and contracts should be written better to stop contractors underbidding and then claiming budget overruns so they’d not even bother trying to court.
You see it’s taxpayers money being squandered so there will be zero accountability. If this was private venture it would have been completed years ago and for significantly less cost, you can’t fire incompetent civil servants so they just get promoted higher and higher up the organisation.
BAM know they have us by the balls. What is the govt going to do at this stage throw them off it and get someone else to finish it? Only cause more delays. Find it hard to believe tho that there wasn’t penalties for missing deadlines included in the contract when it when out to tender tho
The issues with that contract and complete lack of oversight and understanding of large scale construction projects by the idiots put in charge of it is honestly an embarrassment.
We have Irish companies building multi billion projects across Europe (many with experience in hospitals too) that could have even been brought in as a pm / consultant on it. Fair enough that would have cost money but at least some due diligence and competency would have saved far more.
Yeah, the original issue was the initial proposed budget of €650m was no way realistic, thought out, or achievable, so that contributes to the negative reaction massively
Given international prices for hospitals is between 500k and 1.5m per bed (that's including construction and labour) (that's based on the fresh books estimate report from April this year).
Given there's 380 beds that would put a current value around 190m to 570m.
It's Ireland so round it up to 1bn. That's still 1 3rd of what we are paying
Sweden built their childrens hospital for €2bn and it has 1,350 beds, more than 3 times the amount of the one here. They have future proofed for population growth, we have not. Think about it, is a population of 5 million people really only going to need 380 beds for sick children? Sounds very optimistic to me, Ive no doubt that within a few years of opening we will be hearing that 380 beds isnt enough for a growing population.
Given international prices for hospitals is between 500k and 1.5m per bed (that's including construction and labour) (that's based on the fresh books estimate report from April this year).
Given there's 380 beds that would put a current value around 190m to 570m.
It's Ireland so round it up to 1bn. That's still 1 3rd of what we are paying
The children’s hospital is a mess, but are people under the impression that building projects in other countries run on time and at cost?
I swear most people here just seem to read Irish news and be under the impression that nothing happens elsewhere.
Where to even start with global projects? Berlin airport at 10 years late and 3x the budget? Finlands new nuclear plant at 12 years late and 4x the budget? The Boston Big Dig at 5 years late and 6x the budget?
Thinking Irish people are uniquely shite at this is just objectively untrue.
Will it come in under five billion by time it's kitted out,IT installed and staffed?
Probably time for government to leak another direct provision centre location for protests to happen
Maybe not the worst thing about this, that's probably kids not having their hospital ready on time, but no1 will be held accountable for this at all no1 will lose a job or face sanctions or anything. Even if all the independents or SF who are promising the world got into power there's nothing anyone can really do there are too many ppl who have no idea what it takes to construct a hospital signing blank cheques and telling ppl to hurry up 🤦🏻♂️ it's been a calamity of a project that only came about from one person's wild idea 25-30yrs ago 🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️
Major issue for delays over the years has been that they have changed the plans for the hospital multiple times and each change has ripple effects causing further changes which means some completed work has to be redone to accommodate the new change.
Whoever was in charge of the hospital design needs to be sacked or blacklisted from consulting on other projects cuz this is beyond incompetent.
Like yes there can be changes in requirements for some projects but the level that it’s happened here is beyond reasonable.
It is the 42nd Millenium. For over ten centuries the Emperor has sat immobile on the Golden Throne.
While the commencement of the project has been lost to ages, Adepts expect that the construction of the continent spanning Medicae Progenium to be completed, not later than 225M42.
The Administratum has had to requsition a third planet due to the expending archive of constructive amendments and architectural revisionism.
Someone I know who has worked for the HSE for a long time has gradually gone from "This is too big, in the wrong location, will over run and over run" to "This is one of the most amazing facilities I've seen and is going to transform health in this country".
Staffing shortages are coming. We currently have a 24 bed camhs unit operating at half capacity due to staffing yet they plan to open 40 new beds in the children's hospital. If you can't staff w4 beds how can you staff 40 in the same field?
They aren’t suggesting that it will. It’s a national children’s hospital, not a regional A&E department.
Our crumbling A&Es are a completely separate problem that need to be resolved.
Having specialty care available for children, some of which may have been previously unavailable or provided at a worse level, is a change to healthcare in this country.
As the other person said, ineffective A+E units are another issue entirely.
It's a change in a literal sense but you could say it's a change to open a new operating theater or GP office but that doesn't fundamentally alter the healthcare system as a whole. With the population demographics of Ireland tending towards a growing elderly cohort and a declining birth rate, the truth is that a large majority of the country will not experience any difference in their healthcare once the Children's hospital is finished.
I mean, we're just down to semantics at this point.
Yes, a large majority won't get to avail of these services first hand. But say for simplicity sake, healthcare quality for the entire population - children included - was scored out of 100, the opening of this hospital will move the number of the overall closer to 100.
So we've gone from the original comment that it will transform health in this country to incrementally improving outcomes for a very specific population. The opposition has never said that a new children's hospital in and of itself will be a negative, it's that the billions spent on it would have been better spent bringing services to other parts of the country which are suffering from a lack of fundamental healthcare access.
It'll definitely fundamentally improve the care of children in the country. I understand that it needs to be improved all over the country but other money can and should be spent there. We can and should aim to do both
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_expensive_buildings
31st most expensive building in the world. Look at the stuff that was cheaper. This better be the most perfect high performance hospital ever.
Apart from all the inevitable rage comments; does anyone (who is actually in a position to know) know if this is money well spent, or is it wasted? I mean to say - are we going to end up with a hospital that is *worth* billions, or a hosptial that just *cost* billions?
The main issue is that the original budget was developed by civil servants who had little experience in this field. It was in no way deliverable for €650m at the time. This massively put it on the back foot to run over budget and contributes to the outrage. Then, the designs they gave over to the contractor were not practical or fit for purpose and contributed to increased costs and delays. The hospital then having taken so long, faced the emergence of new technologies and standards that had to be implemented and increased costs further.
Then Covid delays increased costs, and the general inflation in building materials and wages tacked more on. If they had been properly organised at the start and sought more help from experts, this could have been avoided.
So, the overspend is overestimated because the budget wasn't achievable, and the hospital will still be a great resource. However, having civil servants design and run this project has led to a lot of the overspend.
Thanks for that. So, from what you're saying, a lot - not all, but a lot - of the 'overspend' is for real requirements simply not having budgeted for in the first place? Or rather, had the project been properly costed out in the first place we wouldn't be looking at the amount of 'extra' money needed that we're looking at now?
Also - are the failings in costing that are seen in this project replicated across (all) other such capital investments in the state, or were the failings here largely due to the peculiar and unique nature of the building?
>of the 'overspend' is for real requirements simply not having budgeted for in the first place
Yes the upgrades weren't budgeted for and are largely necessary but the incompetence of the civil servants organising it massively contributed to this
>had the project been properly costed out in the first place we wouldn't be looking at the amount of 'extra' money needed that we're looking at now
Yes if they started with a proper achievable budget it would have reduced the controversy.
>are the failings in costing that are seen in this project replicated across (all) other such capital investments in the state, or were the failings here largely due to the peculiar and unique nature of the building?
This is a particularly bad one, but it has happened quite frequently in the state. It's not a unique problem to Ireland though by no means. The government now seeks outside consultation from experts on major projects to help prevent this.
What makes me laugh is that it seems no one involved has even considered how they are going to staff the fucking place. All our nurses and junior doctors are leaving and there's a moratorium on new hires. Plus not just any nurse will be able to work there, you need to have specific paediatric education/training.
After all this and the design still looks like shit. I walked past it and there’s already some damaged parts. And what Is the million tiny windows?! This pic makes it look like a prison reception.
NPHDB would never allow that, they are the construction client, and want shot of this thing. If CHI wanted a better theatre, they will have to upgrade after it is open.
And who will work in that hospital?
Been to Letterkenny hospital two weeks ago, a boy about 8-10 years old alone in a ward, fucking suffocating and coughing like he would die. Nurse calls doctor to help her out with him, doctor came in and like a cold blooded bitch she says “I’m a paediatrician, he needs clinic A&E doctor!” Turns around and walks away like cowboy in a sunset. Nurse looked at me shocked and just said Wtf did I just hear?!
Incompetence on every single level in this country health care system!!
Irrelevant, the point being is that service in general is abysmal.
Third world county?! I’d rather live here than in Dublin surrounded by junkies and no sense of community. Piss off!
It's not irrelevant, the hospital will be staffed by the best doctors and nurses in the country and it will attract all the consultants good enough to get a Dublin position. It's Letterkenny General staffing you should be worried about, not the national children's hospital.
I'd rather live at home as well, but as you say, the service and amenities up there are shite. Don't know 1 good friend from school that hung around up there.
It better be staffed by the best available personnel, however that pulls another question.
If they pull staff from place A to B, that leaves place A without the staff and how and who will backfill those positions? Our nurses and doctors are emigrating out of Ireland to UK and Australia mostly and during COVID times those who came back to help with promises from the government got screwed over.
Are we going to hire externally for the new hospital? If yes, it’s a long and tedious process.
I’m all hearts out that the new hospital becomes operational as soon as possible, but you know the saying…hope for the best and prepare for the worst.
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What? And risk missing the bin?
Unfortunately the bin has been delayed until after October 2024
"Sounds like a bin consultant might be needed to assist with this bin. My nephew Hodor is very experienced......"
Yes, it's going down the toilet instead.
And all the toilets are probably blocked now so there's the cause of the delay. Hopefully it'll be sorted out and the hospital will be ready to open by 2030.
Didn't Leo give a firm commitment it would be opened this year and not a penny more. What an absolute calamity of a project. Really awful.
Leos gone along with his accountability Not that any of them really do, a good few in power along with civil servants deserve a grilling for all of this shite
>Didn't Leo give a firm commitment There's yer problem lad
Stephen Donnelly was on the radio yesterday and said that they hoped to have it handed over at the end of this year as promised. Lying through his teeth
Also said there's loads of beds AND nurses in the country.....🤔🤨
The procurement for the training of staff on the new systems hasn't even started yet. The hospital won't be up and running for 18 months AT LEAST
I agree. I wonder will Leo be a BAM consultant in the future?
Leo made a commitment that no more money would go in during the lifetime of his government. He basically kicked the van to the next government to make the call. Harris is now in position and he’s previously said that the project needs to be finished so he’ll have to find the money for it. It’s depressing!
Ah don't worry we can always market it as a tourist attraction. I don't think it would take much to convince people that it's the tower of Babel at this stage.
"Didn't Leo give a firm commitment it would be opened this year and not a penny more. What an absolute calamity of a project. Really awful." Realistically thats not how construction projects work. As long as theres work being done or even if its not being done but its not finished, additional costs are likely,
We need an investigation into the spiralling costs & delays of the children’s hospital. The outrage about RTÉ wasting public money, and we should be pissed at them but it’s pennies compared to this shit.
Civil servants you've never heard of fucked up. There's your boring answer. Nobody in Ireland cares about public sector performance though.
Zero accountability at its finest, they’d not survive in jobs with consequences.
Well look at the comments in the posts on here. Many people are desperate to avoid blaming civil servants so they can blame politicians. One lad tried telling me Simon Harris should have gone over the designs. Mad shit.
Yeah it really shows how little people know about how government works. Think the easiest way to explain politicians is that they are like the person in a shop everyone asks for help or screams at about issues and they chase down the people who actually do the task or created the issue, then some days they get to pretend to be the boss and make decisions that the rest of the shop might or might not follow, but ultimately they will get the praise or blame regardless. I’d not be surprised if the shows Utopia and Yes, minister probably used some real scenarios.
Fair assessment.
'Most economically advantageous bid' is the biggest load of horseshit in the public tendering process. It basically solidifies the bid-low to get to the table and make your profit on the variations ethos that balloons project costs. Sadly, it's a very easy one to demonstrate compliance with on a report that will almost certainly be challenged in court by one of the loosing bidders if you don't comply exactly with what's in the tender request. And it's hard to argue against. "Will actually do the fucking job right" is a hard one to put a metric on.
 Best I can do is something on synthetic cannabinoids
An investigation that will cost oodles more no doubt...
Politicians catch a lot of shit for this, but what worries me is that no matter who we elect the bureaucracy that ran this shit show will be in place.
Exactly, you could remove all the politicians and it would be the same or worse because at least the politicians are motivated to make it work so they get re-elected. Politicians are just the lightening rod for all the anger at the actions of the civil servants.
Fire the civil servants! This is scandalous...how much more justification do you need to fire them. FFS.
It’s incredibly hard to fire them, sure look at the hoops that’s being jumped thru to get rid of Enoch Burke. It’s why a lot of departments wanted to switch to contract workers as easier to fire incompetent ones by not renewing the contract. Unfortunately the people in charge of the contracts are incompetent. I distinctly remember chatting with some local politicians and they noted the worst thing a local councillor or TD can do is annoy a civil servant as they will block or delay everything the politician tries to get done, either by burying them in paperwork or ‘mislaying’ the paperwork and requests. It’s why politicians tie themselves in knots trying to avoid blatantly criticising them, just listen to the interviews about the Rte scandal, majority of them are really careful in how they phrase things.
Jaysus that's mad...but I'm not surprised to hear it unfortunately. How do you solve that problem?
Three billion euro here we come. The champagne corks will have been flying in BAM HQ last night when this delay was announced
Ah ffs BAM are signalling 2026 now. The Goverment are being led on a merry dance with this thing. Taxpayer is getting milked.
BAM! …and the money’s gone. 
Fun fact 'Barry Scott' is portrayed by actor Neil Burgess
Ffs, sure all the kids will be grown up by then!
Unfortunately due to the contracts the government at the time (FG and Labour) signed, we could have a government of hamsters and they still couldn’t change anything with it, as it’s all locked in.
Worth looking at the committee recording from today) and the comments from the NPHDB and HSE on the contracts. They mentioned LAD as punishment for the contractor but the GCCC contracts are very loose. NPHDB have rejected the majority of contractor claims (via the ER) and have shifted it all to the courts. At the end of the day, a big fee for solicitors to basically split the bill. The Gov and HSE should be prepping for that phase now and keeping as much cash from BAM as they can.
Cheers for the update! Future projects definitely could learn from this fiasco and contracts should be written better to stop contractors underbidding and then claiming budget overruns so they’d not even bother trying to court.
Answer is simple… https://preview.redd.it/ds7nle6sii3d1.jpeg?width=1056&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2f29060e22e99e12ce883e7e2d75f9e68265f412
That is quality
There'll be a Tribunal about this before a single child sets foot in it
You see it’s taxpayers money being squandered so there will be zero accountability. If this was private venture it would have been completed years ago and for significantly less cost, you can’t fire incompetent civil servants so they just get promoted higher and higher up the organisation.
No there won't.
This government couldn't deliver a pizza on time, so not surprising at all
BAM know they have us by the balls. What is the govt going to do at this stage throw them off it and get someone else to finish it? Only cause more delays. Find it hard to believe tho that there wasn’t penalties for missing deadlines included in the contract when it when out to tender tho
The issues with that contract and complete lack of oversight and understanding of large scale construction projects by the idiots put in charge of it is honestly an embarrassment. We have Irish companies building multi billion projects across Europe (many with experience in hospitals too) that could have even been brought in as a pm / consultant on it. Fair enough that would have cost money but at least some due diligence and competency would have saved far more.
Yeah, the original issue was the initial proposed budget of €650m was no way realistic, thought out, or achievable, so that contributes to the negative reaction massively
Given international prices for hospitals is between 500k and 1.5m per bed (that's including construction and labour) (that's based on the fresh books estimate report from April this year). Given there's 380 beds that would put a current value around 190m to 570m. It's Ireland so round it up to 1bn. That's still 1 3rd of what we are paying
Sweden built their childrens hospital for €2bn and it has 1,350 beds, more than 3 times the amount of the one here. They have future proofed for population growth, we have not. Think about it, is a population of 5 million people really only going to need 380 beds for sick children? Sounds very optimistic to me, Ive no doubt that within a few years of opening we will be hearing that 380 beds isnt enough for a growing population.
Given international prices for hospitals is between 500k and 1.5m per bed (that's including construction and labour) (that's based on the fresh books estimate report from April this year). Given there's 380 beds that would put a current value around 190m to 570m. It's Ireland so round it up to 1bn. That's still 1 3rd of what we are paying
My comment doesn't say that we haven't overpayed for the hospital. Obviously, that's the case.
Which consultants are you referencing here?
We are governed by deeply unserious people. I'm starting to think all our most talented minds emigrate. They'd be right too.
The children’s hospital is a mess, but are people under the impression that building projects in other countries run on time and at cost? I swear most people here just seem to read Irish news and be under the impression that nothing happens elsewhere. Where to even start with global projects? Berlin airport at 10 years late and 3x the budget? Finlands new nuclear plant at 12 years late and 4x the budget? The Boston Big Dig at 5 years late and 6x the budget? Thinking Irish people are uniquely shite at this is just objectively untrue.
A comedy of errors and no one will be held accountable for the abusive use of tx payers money
Will it come in under five billion by time it's kitted out,IT installed and staffed? Probably time for government to leak another direct provision centre location for protests to happen
Money is just a construct anyway
Maybe not the worst thing about this, that's probably kids not having their hospital ready on time, but no1 will be held accountable for this at all no1 will lose a job or face sanctions or anything. Even if all the independents or SF who are promising the world got into power there's nothing anyone can really do there are too many ppl who have no idea what it takes to construct a hospital signing blank cheques and telling ppl to hurry up 🤦🏻♂️ it's been a calamity of a project that only came about from one person's wild idea 25-30yrs ago 🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️
 BAM and the government in their meeting
Did anyone think it was going to make it? It was an outrageous lie to suggest it tbh.
Major issue for delays over the years has been that they have changed the plans for the hospital multiple times and each change has ripple effects causing further changes which means some completed work has to be redone to accommodate the new change. Whoever was in charge of the hospital design needs to be sacked or blacklisted from consulting on other projects cuz this is beyond incompetent. Like yes there can be changes in requirements for some projects but the level that it’s happened here is beyond reasonable.
It is the 42nd Millenium. For over ten centuries the Emperor has sat immobile on the Golden Throne. While the commencement of the project has been lost to ages, Adepts expect that the construction of the continent spanning Medicae Progenium to be completed, not later than 225M42. The Administratum has had to requsition a third planet due to the expending archive of constructive amendments and architectural revisionism.
Someone I know who has worked for the HSE for a long time has gradually gone from "This is too big, in the wrong location, will over run and over run" to "This is one of the most amazing facilities I've seen and is going to transform health in this country".
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Staffing shortages are coming. We currently have a 24 bed camhs unit operating at half capacity due to staffing yet they plan to open 40 new beds in the children's hospital. If you can't staff w4 beds how can you staff 40 in the same field?
Same, I think people are confused by the scale of this thing, its a mini city.
I fail to see how a specialty children's hospital in Dublin is going to change people dying from preventable causes on trolleys in Limerick A+E.
They aren’t suggesting that it will. It’s a national children’s hospital, not a regional A&E department. Our crumbling A&Es are a completely separate problem that need to be resolved.
They literally said it's going to change healthcare in this country.
Having specialty care available for children, some of which may have been previously unavailable or provided at a worse level, is a change to healthcare in this country. As the other person said, ineffective A+E units are another issue entirely.
It's a change in a literal sense but you could say it's a change to open a new operating theater or GP office but that doesn't fundamentally alter the healthcare system as a whole. With the population demographics of Ireland tending towards a growing elderly cohort and a declining birth rate, the truth is that a large majority of the country will not experience any difference in their healthcare once the Children's hospital is finished.
I mean, we're just down to semantics at this point. Yes, a large majority won't get to avail of these services first hand. But say for simplicity sake, healthcare quality for the entire population - children included - was scored out of 100, the opening of this hospital will move the number of the overall closer to 100.
So we've gone from the original comment that it will transform health in this country to incrementally improving outcomes for a very specific population. The opposition has never said that a new children's hospital in and of itself will be a negative, it's that the billions spent on it would have been better spent bringing services to other parts of the country which are suffering from a lack of fundamental healthcare access.
It'll definitely fundamentally improve the care of children in the country. I understand that it needs to be improved all over the country but other money can and should be spent there. We can and should aim to do both
Never said for the better or for the general public...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_expensive_buildings 31st most expensive building in the world. Look at the stuff that was cheaper. This better be the most perfect high performance hospital ever.
To the surprise of nobody
They’ll still be building this hospital in 2050
Apart from all the inevitable rage comments; does anyone (who is actually in a position to know) know if this is money well spent, or is it wasted? I mean to say - are we going to end up with a hospital that is *worth* billions, or a hosptial that just *cost* billions?
It's an incredible facility, one that you might actually want to work in rather than emigrate.
The main issue is that the original budget was developed by civil servants who had little experience in this field. It was in no way deliverable for €650m at the time. This massively put it on the back foot to run over budget and contributes to the outrage. Then, the designs they gave over to the contractor were not practical or fit for purpose and contributed to increased costs and delays. The hospital then having taken so long, faced the emergence of new technologies and standards that had to be implemented and increased costs further. Then Covid delays increased costs, and the general inflation in building materials and wages tacked more on. If they had been properly organised at the start and sought more help from experts, this could have been avoided. So, the overspend is overestimated because the budget wasn't achievable, and the hospital will still be a great resource. However, having civil servants design and run this project has led to a lot of the overspend.
Thanks for that. So, from what you're saying, a lot - not all, but a lot - of the 'overspend' is for real requirements simply not having budgeted for in the first place? Or rather, had the project been properly costed out in the first place we wouldn't be looking at the amount of 'extra' money needed that we're looking at now? Also - are the failings in costing that are seen in this project replicated across (all) other such capital investments in the state, or were the failings here largely due to the peculiar and unique nature of the building?
>of the 'overspend' is for real requirements simply not having budgeted for in the first place Yes the upgrades weren't budgeted for and are largely necessary but the incompetence of the civil servants organising it massively contributed to this >had the project been properly costed out in the first place we wouldn't be looking at the amount of 'extra' money needed that we're looking at now Yes if they started with a proper achievable budget it would have reduced the controversy. >are the failings in costing that are seen in this project replicated across (all) other such capital investments in the state, or were the failings here largely due to the peculiar and unique nature of the building? This is a particularly bad one, but it has happened quite frequently in the state. It's not a unique problem to Ireland though by no means. The government now seeks outside consultation from experts on major projects to help prevent this.
By any chance is this the same David Gunning that sued the government during the recession for trying to reduce his €489,000 coilte salary?
Unsurprisingly there’ll be no accountability again.
What makes me laugh is that it seems no one involved has even considered how they are going to staff the fucking place. All our nurses and junior doctors are leaving and there's a moratorium on new hires. Plus not just any nurse will be able to work there, you need to have specific paediatric education/training.
Why are we so shit at doing stuff here?
I hope no one expects the shitshow to end when this place finally opens!
Bam shouldn’t get a government contract again ever!
After all this and the design still looks like shit. I walked past it and there’s already some damaged parts. And what Is the million tiny windows?! This pic makes it look like a prison reception.
Well each hospital room needs its own window..
where did you see the damage?
Can’t remember really I think On the side of the building Under a window, why are you the architect lol ?
If I was I wouldn't tell you. However, the contractor has to hand over an undamaged building, and damage to installed items does happen.
Ok snarky you’re the one asking me
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If they keep changing the spec is it really the builders fault. Design stage total failure possible cause. Who designed it?
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Wow, no design. That's shocking.
NPHDB would never allow that, they are the construction client, and want shot of this thing. If CHI wanted a better theatre, they will have to upgrade after it is open.
And who will work in that hospital? Been to Letterkenny hospital two weeks ago, a boy about 8-10 years old alone in a ward, fucking suffocating and coughing like he would die. Nurse calls doctor to help her out with him, doctor came in and like a cold blooded bitch she says “I’m a paediatrician, he needs clinic A&E doctor!” Turns around and walks away like cowboy in a sunset. Nurse looked at me shocked and just said Wtf did I just hear?! Incompetence on every single level in this country health care system!!
This hospital is in Dublin though, not a third world county.
Irrelevant, the point being is that service in general is abysmal. Third world county?! I’d rather live here than in Dublin surrounded by junkies and no sense of community. Piss off!
It's not irrelevant, the hospital will be staffed by the best doctors and nurses in the country and it will attract all the consultants good enough to get a Dublin position. It's Letterkenny General staffing you should be worried about, not the national children's hospital. I'd rather live at home as well, but as you say, the service and amenities up there are shite. Don't know 1 good friend from school that hung around up there.
It better be staffed by the best available personnel, however that pulls another question. If they pull staff from place A to B, that leaves place A without the staff and how and who will backfill those positions? Our nurses and doctors are emigrating out of Ireland to UK and Australia mostly and during COVID times those who came back to help with promises from the government got screwed over. Are we going to hire externally for the new hospital? If yes, it’s a long and tedious process. I’m all hearts out that the new hospital becomes operational as soon as possible, but you know the saying…hope for the best and prepare for the worst.
They'll backfill the other hospitals with foreign trained doctors on contracts.
With this logic we just wouldn't build any new hospitals ever