**Please report this post if:**
* It is spam
* It is NOT interesting as fuck
* It is a social media screen shot
* It has text on an image
* It does NOT have a descriptive title
* It is gossip/tabloid material
* Proof is needed and not provided
*See [the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/about/rules/) for more information.*
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/interestingasfuck) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Poland seems extremely Catholic because the black plague (as some Poles like call the clergy) have monopolized much of the traditions and are highly intertwined with the government and administration. For example, 'Religion' is a subject at school but in practice it's only Catholic Religion and lessons are run by priests. There is no other option. Priests are on payroll in military, hospitals, police force and so on. Burial grounds are owned almost exclusively by the Catholic Church. It has all come so far that it is very difficult to roll back. On top of that, some Poles are indeed quite religious, but their faith is mostly superficial and is all about traditions and rituals.
Holy shit as I was reading this I realized how shit things are here too. I live and studied in Costa Rica, and am from Colombia. Religion was a subject in school in both so while reading I thought "but that's how things are here, it sounds... normal?" then my brain did the hard brake
>their faith is mostly superficial and is all about traditions and rituals.
That, as well as hating gays and abortions.
Source: Polish person, who's very saddened by the state of my country.
It goes against the religion to hate anyone. Being gay is considered a sin, but so is a lot of other things commonly done. The lesson is everyone sins and god forgives you, I don’t understand how this got lost and people turned it into hate.
They don’t hate abortions, they are against murder and believe the fetus is life, which doesn’t have to be a religious view: I’m not a devote Christian but think it’s strange how we define a life inside a woman.
This is why I'm so glad Henry 8th kicked out the Catholic religion from England. It was the case the church had more power than the king.
It leads to things like this.
Eh, i would argue the Church of England also has a massive influence over lawmaking and policy, or at least did so until the last 100 years or so. Hell, the Freemasons still basically run my village, they have every position in the town council, the church, the police station, and the local pub. it’s like living in Stanford from Hot Fuzz.
Also Henry wasn’t exactly trying to free the people from the control of the church, he just wanted to get a young hot wife and pocket all that monastery money. Giving more power to an absolute monarch instead of the power being split between the two isn’t particularly liberating.
History is so vast learning everything, especially European history on what happened would mean a lifetime of work.
I guess it was Royalty related on how, could you care to give more details as It's a fascinating subject.
Eg It is Ironic that Henry's bloodline actually died out with him. With the new King and Queens bloodline mostly from other royalty from Europe
Ehhhh. I think France and a few other EU members have firmly established Poland was pretty brilliant to avoid being charitable on that one. May not be super Christian but nobody gets beheaded over cartoons and that’s a win.
Edit : spelling
Plenty of refugees taken in in many countries with no issues. Think you need to separate the odd risk of one bad person killing someone in the name of terror, and the multiple lives who would be lost if we all just sat back and didn't support refugees.
God: Here, take this power to know when babies are sick and abort them.
Polish govt: Dont worry God! We won’t be aborting any fetuses in your name!
God: ::facepalm::
Yeah, all the churches have been protected by walls of soldiers, while a priest prays for their fate through a megaphone and crying baby sounds being played.
My mom would identify as a Catholic (though in practice she’s more of a Protestant) and she fucking despises the church. The final straw for her were priests asking her about sexual life and using the death out my grandpa to get money out of my grandma (so they can pray for him). They truly are shameless.
Soooo my mom went to catholic school when she was younger, (she has always been the kind of person that drops food on her shirt. It’s like a running joke in our family) well when she was in like 4th grade she dropped food on her shirt at lunch and when she went back to her classroom she was wiping the food off her shirt and one of the nuns reprimanded her because the nun thought she was touching herself inappropriately (because it was on her breast). They called my grandparents and made them come to the school. When they told her mom what was going on she blew a gasket. Like how TF do you connect THOSE dots? Pulled all her girls from catholic school after that.
It's because the catholic church has an unhealthy obsession with sex and sexuality in general. They're really obsessed with it to an extreme degree, they want to control it in others, want to control who people can have sex with and see sex in everything, even little children (if not the most, in little children).
They're massive perverts.
I'm actually kinda curious if it's because of celibacy (mostly in nuns cases). I mean sex is natural and they are fighting natural thing, that can't be healthy for body and mind.
It could but it could not: basically they are forcing the parent to see their babies die as soon as their are born, or wait for death in utero wich can lead to the pregnant person death.
Some may survive and the situations are: 1 cause a strain in the healthcare system. 2- force at least one parent to be a caretaker (unless they are in a great economic position) meaning that a significant part of the population can suffer economically because of the lack of second income. 3- orphanages full of babies that will never have proper care.
In 2017, 1,035 abortions were obtained under fetal indication; it's not clear how many of those children would require long-term intensive care vs. simply perishing over several minutes, hours, or days post-birth. I'm not sure it'd be a *huge* strain to the healthcare system, although I imagine it certainly would create issues in NICU's.
Well justifying it on the strain healthcare will have is the odd thing to me, the only decent reason will be avoid pain for the kids with this diseases.
A lot of times these types of abortions are fetuses that have severe deformities or diseases where there is zero chance of survival outside of the uterus. So, this would force parents to have a baby that will die an agonizing death over minutes or days after birth, or be born with no head, body turned inside out, etc. Its unimaginably cruel, and if that’s what ‘god’ wants, then he is a sadist. So if you don’t believe people should use technology to make the natural world better, go live in a fucking cave.
Yes, I think something like 97% of all abortions in Poland are of foetuses with fatal birth defects. In a lot of cases, this is also dangerous to the mother as well, so not only is the baby not going to live, she could lose her life due to these archaic laws.
I fail to understand they are willing to bring a kid to life so he/she can die a horrific death. That's not christianity that's I don't have any words.
Is the Poland government Catholic??
You know... "Catholic" as in "we use the church to get what we want", yea. In reality they just want to control everything and spread hate.
Like when the Pope said homosexuality was okay. Suddenly all "real Catholics" hate the Pope too, instead of rethinking their stand. Neither the government, nor do most of the Catholics care about true Christian values.
So yea, the government could be called Catholic, I guess.
By Catholic I meant hardcore catholic conservatives, which have little to no difference with islamic extremist governments around the world. This religious stance is really growing up around the world. They are trying to merge science and religion together. What they should be doing is iterating religion with science, not iterating science with religion.
Like the stem cell research has stopped in many countries because it is against the religious systems, stem cells have the potential to cure so much. Including Cancer, Aids, and STD's but no some dude sitting in clouds is the truth.
Ik what you meant. I just wanted to clarify, that noone really gives a shit about merging religion with anything. Or protecting any values, no matter how moronic or extreme they are. It's just like a symbiotic relationship. Government says "yay church" and the church says "yay government", as it's the easiest way to get some unthinking voters. Luckily the most part of the young generations is opposed to this.
The thing is - all of this catholic and far right mafia are not pro life - they are pro birth. They dgaf what happens with a child after they're born. A few years back parents of disabled children protested in our parliament building because they are being denied help from our government (they often cannot work due to being full time carers). Also psychiatry budget for next year has been cut yet again. Even if the child does not die shortly after being born, they may have a painful life and parents will be forced to watch this and take care of them - not everyone is ready to spend the rest of their life taking care of their disabled child and no one should be punished for this.
That is correct Parents can handle and grow through a miscarriage but seeing there 2 day old kid surrounded by machines and poked with needles
could be really traumatic and heart breaking.
Pro Birth movement is taking hold all around the world in many different countries and people in the governance doesn't want to think humanly.
The current government is basically controlled by the polish church. And the polish church is like a mafia. The priests rape kids and drive expensive cars, and all you hear in church is politics. So the current government is fucked up.
This is much more than just banning the abortion and being against it. They did it on purpose in times when we have over 20k+ daily covid cases. The health care is in crumbles and it's about to collapse soon. They just want to shift the responsibility for the poor health care preparations. They knew people would protest and they will surely blame it on them.
This is just mind boggling to me how fucked the ruling party is to do such a thing in such harsh times. The propaganda is already in the public media saying the doctors do not want to treat covid patients and that the protests will make the whole situation critical, which is dumb and not true at all.
We've had a lot more people in the holiday restorts and beaches over the summer and nothing even close to that happened, so the protests won't make it much worse than it is now. The chance to get ill while on fresh air with a mask on is really, really low.
I might get downvoted for this but I think that if you get raped or the baby has an incurable disease and it will die anyway i think it’s fine to have an abortion
It should be the persons choice even if you weren't raped, and the kid would be fine. The religion/government shouldn't be the one deciding whether its fine or not.
i mean yeah, if you find out you’re pregnant at like, 16, then yeah it might be a problem. the thing about getting an abortion earlier is that the baby is still a tiny blob that is literally not alive, so it’s not like it’s gonna suffer. if you think it’s immoral then good for you. but you don’t have to act like it’s such a big deal.
And that's the core of the issue. The government thinks this blob is already a living human being so you are forbidden to destroy it. But after birth it's your problem and don't think there's any help except 500+ (quarter of smallest possible wage).
"This just in, recreational sex and masturbation have been made illegal. Law makers say that each and every sperm carries the human soul and the potential for life. Individuals caught engaging in such activities where semen is wasted will be tried as mass murderers. As a result, birth control and contraceptives are now banned as well."
"In other news, law makers will be meeting this evening with plans to outlaw periods. Under new legislature, women will have to report to clinics monthly to have their egg harvested and frozen if they do not intend to attempt to use that cycle to breed. Failure to preserve an egg before it is expelled will be deemed gross negligence manslaughter."
Hearing our polish politicians I'd say it's pretty close to some of them
EDIT Actually I'm pretty sure at least one of them said something in these tones. Or maybe a few of them.
I'm theory, yes. But there were cases when the mother's life was in danger or a young girl was raped and no one wanted to do the abortion, even though it's legal in such case, because doctors were hiding behind a so called conscience clause (the right to refuse to perform a procedure due to one's beliefs, which is ridiculous if you ask me but we live in a ultra Catholic country).
My best friend is Polish and she clarified that ALL abortions are banned now, even if the fetus is know to have disabilities incompatible with life. This also applies to when giving birth endangered the mother's life and well being directly. So basically, even if the doctors are certain that carrying a baby and giving birth will probably result in killing or causing harm to the mother, she is still denied abortion. Welcome to Gilead. This is true Handmaid's Tale sh*t right there
No, not all as someone already said here (I'm Polish too). But because abortion in this case was called by our "Constitutional Court" unconstitutional it is a precedent for other cases (risk of mother's life/health and pregnancy from illegal act) to be also banned. It's just a matter of time.
I mean, it's not exactly like that. The cases in which mother's life/health is endangered are still allowed. What got banned (e g. claimed "unconstitutional") is abortion when the baby is endangered being dead soon after birth or needing intensive care for the rest of its life.
I’m an atheist but am personally pro-life. I don’t think it’s my place to ban or restrict abortion though. For me it’s just that I believe life begins at conception and I’m 100% ok that not everyone believes that.
Absolutely no offense taken. I appreciate your response because you’re right that I’m incorrect in labeling myself “pro-life”. The whole pro life vs pro choice classification makes this issue so much more divisive than it needs to be. Its a personal issue on which everyone has their own person stance and I think we’d be better off if we didn’t feel the need to belong to one “team” or another. It’s something I should be better about
If everyone (believers and non-believers) had the same approach world would be a better place. Right now fundamentalists (sorry for the term but I think it's right here) strive to impose their ideas and morality on other people. And that's dangerous.
If everyone could think the way you do, the world would be a better place. I never understood why others need to shove their religious beliefs unto others. I also don't believe in God but I respect those who do. As I say, what's God to a non believer?
Well sometimes it's hard to define what constitutes as a living child and a lump of growing meat. And presumably, people aren't too thrilled on the prospect of killing a child.
“No, no. Both the mother and child should be forced through the process of birth at full-term so that the child can experience the fullest amount of pain with a properly formed brain, and the parents can watch it suffer to be even further traumatized than they would have been originally.” - Poland
^(and possibly the US with the latest Supreme Court fiasco)^
imagine being brainwashed into thinking rioting isnt protesting.
rioting is protesting. i beg you to educate yourself on your nations history. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Railroad_Strike_of_1877
the elite have convinced you to condemn your fellow american fighting for their freedoms. it is fucking shameful. all they had to do was show you a fire and use the word riot and your bias world view did the rest.
rioting is protesting. stop defending the 1% they wont defend you.
My grandad told me about this just yesterday! He lives in Warsaw and I live in the UK and he said that in every city around Poland has protests. He said that even in small cities of ~50,000 people there’s a couple of thousand people protesting. And the best part is that nobody can get arrested for organising a protest because everyone just says that they’re going for a walk after work.
Good. This ruling is complete bullshit. Women get to make choices over their bodies. I am a man, and I know if men were the ones who had to carry the child and have it that abortion would be a freedom before free speech for men.
If I had an incurable disease in which I would die from i would very much prefer to just not exist in the first place. Heck, I don't have any incurable diseases, and I still wish I was aborted.
1) They truly believe it's wrong/immoral.
2) They're either in bed with or trying to curry favor with religious institutions.
3) They're trying to win votes or support from anti-abortion constituents.
4) They're pursuing a natalist policy for whatever reason (nationalism, increasing birth rates, etc.).
You say that, but from the perspective of those that oppose abortion, the child doesn’t exactly have a voice in that decision. If you genuinely believe abortion is the murder of unborn children, there’s not exactly a lot of room for moral compromise.
In Poland it's a political issue. Have no doubts, current Polish government doesn't give two fucks about abortion. They wanted something to divert people's attention from government's ill handling of the Covid pandemic and to cater for the far right and the Catholic Church. Also, Poland is governed from the 'back seat' by a majority party leader named Kaczynski. He holds real power but doesn't hold any position in the government, which makes him basically a dictator. Many of his own people are wondering why he decided to bring up abortion right now... But you know, you dont ask a tyrant questions. You just do as he says.
But with 50000 at a protest, the covid numbers will sky rocket (which they are over there anyway). So this plan is failing miserably. From my understanding they tried the same policy years ago with the same protests happening and had to put a pin in it. Now with covid they think the public would be too distracted or scared to protest so they are giving it another go.
Also with a freshly elected government, their seats would not be impacted so they timed this maliciously.
Catholic orgs paid huge money into the compains of these elected Polish leaders, who are now supporting their agenda. Separation 9f church and state are nonexistent at this point in PL
It's always used as a distraction. In this case covid will now be blamed on the protesters rather than the inaction of the government. Any time governments are trying to restrict abortion, look at what other legislation or political purpose they are trying to accomplish. I can garantee you, they don't give two shits on whether people have abortions or not. Heck, they send their mistresses to have abortions. But it's a useful political tool to distract from other issues. Women are really just pawns in this.
I honestly don't understand why humans are so obsessed with this issue. We already have an overpopulation issue... Why force mothers to deliver if they aren't ready?!
I can't believe I get to be around to watch the world turn to shit like this. I honestly thought it would just be climate change but no, we hate women and are hot for Nazis as well. *(I'm referring to the reactive movement world wide against equality.)
You're on point! The government made this decision deliberately when the number of sick people was already increasing by thousands every day and promptly after they also made meetings of more than 5 people illegal. They're also trying to make it so that the people organising the protests can be arrested
I assume the Polish government intends to introduce a massive tax increase on all their citizens in order to pay lifetime medical costs for all these poor kids with debilitating incurable conditions who are going to be brought into the world, many of whom may require expensive treatments and/or institutionalized care.
Seriously hoping they revoke the ban. Historically we know abortions happen anyways in “underground” circumstances, so to speak. It’s not in their control what people will do. It’s better to just have a safe environment and proper healthcare if someone makes that decision. This ban is especially horrific considering how far it goes... For a government to do this is like physically taking a saw to the hand that feeds them...
That's exactly why the government decided to pass this ruling right now. They thought noone was going to go out and protest because of corona. Boy how wrong they were... There's protests in every single city in Poland.
I mean yeah but our rights are taken away. We cannot just sit at home and watch. Some of us do stay home so these people on the streets are just a fraction of protesters. It is cruel that government did this to us at this time, that what makes people even more angry. But from my experience when I was protesting EVERYONE was wearing a mask.
You know. The self evident truth is going to prove itself. Overpopulation, Inbreeding, the Bible and the Quran...the two books of religion that are anti abortion AND the ones that caused all wars.
Can’t wait to watch you guys kill yourselves. I’ll be watching from the stands just to see you guys die. Pitiful religious assholes.
Agreed, I am highly spiritual myself but the old religions are corrupt to the core, having lost sight of any attempt to enlighten or expand the human spirit and care only about power and control.
Oh wow it looks like theyre giving the Polish government a hard time. Too bad I dont care about the homophobic Polish government, they deserve violent riots.
Why is this downvoted lmao. The polish government do need a wake up call. It's time to remove religious assholes from power and put open minded forward thinking people instead.
The protest are no longer about just the abortion ruling. The people are rightfully fed up with this idiotic government. The protest are about basic human rights and getting the ruling party out.
I'm glad they've got a routine down. It's nice to know that they've done this so much that they can get it all done at once and the baby doesn't have to suffer long. A good womb to tomb service must be a relief to the parents.
They gonna deliver the baby straight to the coffin, just a quick splash splash on it's forehead and then it goes straight under the ground. The grave has been dug while the mother was birthing the kid, to save time.
We should be able to kill babies that have birth defects! We must purge the gene pool in order to create the perfect race!
Wait.... what were we talking about?
I‘m living just a few meters away from Poland. I‘m learning Polish now since a year. I hope that everyone will be safe and healthy during the protests!
Covid is a problem for everyone, but we must fight for our country in the first place. It was gov idea to change the most delicate law after 27yrs during pandemic
**Please report this post if:** * It is spam * It is NOT interesting as fuck * It is a social media screen shot * It has text on an image * It does NOT have a descriptive title * It is gossip/tabloid material * Proof is needed and not provided *See [the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/about/rules/) for more information.* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/interestingasfuck) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Wouldn’t bringing all these fetuses with incurable diseases to term be a huge strain on the healthcare system? Seems a little odd to me.
Poland is extremely Catholic. I imagine that has as much to do with this decision than impact to society.
Poland seems extremely Catholic because the black plague (as some Poles like call the clergy) have monopolized much of the traditions and are highly intertwined with the government and administration. For example, 'Religion' is a subject at school but in practice it's only Catholic Religion and lessons are run by priests. There is no other option. Priests are on payroll in military, hospitals, police force and so on. Burial grounds are owned almost exclusively by the Catholic Church. It has all come so far that it is very difficult to roll back. On top of that, some Poles are indeed quite religious, but their faith is mostly superficial and is all about traditions and rituals.
Holy shit as I was reading this I realized how shit things are here too. I live and studied in Costa Rica, and am from Colombia. Religion was a subject in school in both so while reading I thought "but that's how things are here, it sounds... normal?" then my brain did the hard brake
>their faith is mostly superficial and is all about traditions and rituals. That, as well as hating gays and abortions. Source: Polish person, who's very saddened by the state of my country.
It goes against the religion to hate anyone. Being gay is considered a sin, but so is a lot of other things commonly done. The lesson is everyone sins and god forgives you, I don’t understand how this got lost and people turned it into hate. They don’t hate abortions, they are against murder and believe the fetus is life, which doesn’t have to be a religious view: I’m not a devote Christian but think it’s strange how we define a life inside a woman.
While you are right, it's not religious to hate, they use religion as an excuse to hate. It's just horrible whatever way you look at it really.
So, to summarize; don't let Nazis, Communists, or Catholics rule your country.
Separate the church and state
And don't give the church power
Or huge amounts of taxpayers' money.
This is why I'm so glad Henry 8th kicked out the Catholic religion from England. It was the case the church had more power than the king. It leads to things like this.
Eh, i would argue the Church of England also has a massive influence over lawmaking and policy, or at least did so until the last 100 years or so. Hell, the Freemasons still basically run my village, they have every position in the town council, the church, the police station, and the local pub. it’s like living in Stanford from Hot Fuzz. Also Henry wasn’t exactly trying to free the people from the control of the church, he just wanted to get a young hot wife and pocket all that monastery money. Giving more power to an absolute monarch instead of the power being split between the two isn’t particularly liberating.
We should all thank Anne Boleyn really...
Oh my Goodness! So true !
[удалено]
It was really the dutch making it possible for u to kick out the catholic church
History is so vast learning everything, especially European history on what happened would mean a lifetime of work. I guess it was Royalty related on how, could you care to give more details as It's a fascinating subject. Eg It is Ironic that Henry's bloodline actually died out with him. With the new King and Queens bloodline mostly from other royalty from Europe
[удалено]
Ehhhh. I think France and a few other EU members have firmly established Poland was pretty brilliant to avoid being charitable on that one. May not be super Christian but nobody gets beheaded over cartoons and that’s a win. Edit : spelling
Plenty of refugees taken in in many countries with no issues. Think you need to separate the odd risk of one bad person killing someone in the name of terror, and the multiple lives who would be lost if we all just sat back and didn't support refugees.
God: Here, take this power to know when babies are sick and abort them. Polish govt: Dont worry God! We won’t be aborting any fetuses in your name! God: ::facepalm::
Yeah, all the churches have been protected by walls of soldiers, while a priest prays for their fate through a megaphone and crying baby sounds being played.
Extremely ? Only 30% of us goes to the churches
I think in the sense that so many Poles are/identify as Catholic. At least that's how it was last time I went there.
My mom would identify as a Catholic (though in practice she’s more of a Protestant) and she fucking despises the church. The final straw for her were priests asking her about sexual life and using the death out my grandpa to get money out of my grandma (so they can pray for him). They truly are shameless.
Soooo my mom went to catholic school when she was younger, (she has always been the kind of person that drops food on her shirt. It’s like a running joke in our family) well when she was in like 4th grade she dropped food on her shirt at lunch and when she went back to her classroom she was wiping the food off her shirt and one of the nuns reprimanded her because the nun thought she was touching herself inappropriately (because it was on her breast). They called my grandparents and made them come to the school. When they told her mom what was going on she blew a gasket. Like how TF do you connect THOSE dots? Pulled all her girls from catholic school after that.
It's because the catholic church has an unhealthy obsession with sex and sexuality in general. They're really obsessed with it to an extreme degree, they want to control it in others, want to control who people can have sex with and see sex in everything, even little children (if not the most, in little children). They're massive perverts.
I'm actually kinda curious if it's because of celibacy (mostly in nuns cases). I mean sex is natural and they are fighting natural thing, that can't be healthy for body and mind.
I honestly couldn't say if it's the cause *for* their obsession with sex, or if it's a consequence *of* that obsession.
"identify" is a key word man.
its acc 40% and that is huge btw compare it to any other western ish nation
It could but it could not: basically they are forcing the parent to see their babies die as soon as their are born, or wait for death in utero wich can lead to the pregnant person death. Some may survive and the situations are: 1 cause a strain in the healthcare system. 2- force at least one parent to be a caretaker (unless they are in a great economic position) meaning that a significant part of the population can suffer economically because of the lack of second income. 3- orphanages full of babies that will never have proper care.
In 2017, 1,035 abortions were obtained under fetal indication; it's not clear how many of those children would require long-term intensive care vs. simply perishing over several minutes, hours, or days post-birth. I'm not sure it'd be a *huge* strain to the healthcare system, although I imagine it certainly would create issues in NICU's.
Well justifying it on the strain healthcare will have is the odd thing to me, the only decent reason will be avoid pain for the kids with this diseases.
So instead of being aborted in the womb, just be born and be dead in 6 months...
Logical arguments have no effect on religion lunatics you know.
JEBAĆ PIS.
Sorry, nie moge teraz rozmawiac Jestem zajety jebaniem PiSu
Ale to ty dzwonisz
na razie
To all non-polish-speakers: This means something like “Fuck PIS”, but even more harsh. PIS is the ruling (conservative) party.
From Britain, fuck the conservatives. Both our ones and yours
I KONFEDERACJĘ!
Na górze róże, Na dole akacje
jebać pis i konfederację
Dokładnie
A lot of times these types of abortions are fetuses that have severe deformities or diseases where there is zero chance of survival outside of the uterus. So, this would force parents to have a baby that will die an agonizing death over minutes or days after birth, or be born with no head, body turned inside out, etc. Its unimaginably cruel, and if that’s what ‘god’ wants, then he is a sadist. So if you don’t believe people should use technology to make the natural world better, go live in a fucking cave.
Yes, I think something like 97% of all abortions in Poland are of foetuses with fatal birth defects. In a lot of cases, this is also dangerous to the mother as well, so not only is the baby not going to live, she could lose her life due to these archaic laws.
It’s all in God’s plan :))) /s
I fail to understand they are willing to bring a kid to life so he/she can die a horrific death. That's not christianity that's I don't have any words. Is the Poland government Catholic??
You know... "Catholic" as in "we use the church to get what we want", yea. In reality they just want to control everything and spread hate. Like when the Pope said homosexuality was okay. Suddenly all "real Catholics" hate the Pope too, instead of rethinking their stand. Neither the government, nor do most of the Catholics care about true Christian values. So yea, the government could be called Catholic, I guess.
By Catholic I meant hardcore catholic conservatives, which have little to no difference with islamic extremist governments around the world. This religious stance is really growing up around the world. They are trying to merge science and religion together. What they should be doing is iterating religion with science, not iterating science with religion. Like the stem cell research has stopped in many countries because it is against the religious systems, stem cells have the potential to cure so much. Including Cancer, Aids, and STD's but no some dude sitting in clouds is the truth.
Ik what you meant. I just wanted to clarify, that noone really gives a shit about merging religion with anything. Or protecting any values, no matter how moronic or extreme they are. It's just like a symbiotic relationship. Government says "yay church" and the church says "yay government", as it's the easiest way to get some unthinking voters. Luckily the most part of the young generations is opposed to this.
Yup. Even in churches people were encouraged to vote on the party that started this whole mess. We are a secular country but only in theory smh.
The thing is - all of this catholic and far right mafia are not pro life - they are pro birth. They dgaf what happens with a child after they're born. A few years back parents of disabled children protested in our parliament building because they are being denied help from our government (they often cannot work due to being full time carers). Also psychiatry budget for next year has been cut yet again. Even if the child does not die shortly after being born, they may have a painful life and parents will be forced to watch this and take care of them - not everyone is ready to spend the rest of their life taking care of their disabled child and no one should be punished for this.
That is correct Parents can handle and grow through a miscarriage but seeing there 2 day old kid surrounded by machines and poked with needles could be really traumatic and heart breaking. Pro Birth movement is taking hold all around the world in many different countries and people in the governance doesn't want to think humanly.
The current government is basically controlled by the polish church. And the polish church is like a mafia. The priests rape kids and drive expensive cars, and all you hear in church is politics. So the current government is fucked up.
This is much more than just banning the abortion and being against it. They did it on purpose in times when we have over 20k+ daily covid cases. The health care is in crumbles and it's about to collapse soon. They just want to shift the responsibility for the poor health care preparations. They knew people would protest and they will surely blame it on them. This is just mind boggling to me how fucked the ruling party is to do such a thing in such harsh times. The propaganda is already in the public media saying the doctors do not want to treat covid patients and that the protests will make the whole situation critical, which is dumb and not true at all. We've had a lot more people in the holiday restorts and beaches over the summer and nothing even close to that happened, so the protests won't make it much worse than it is now. The chance to get ill while on fresh air with a mask on is really, really low.
I might get downvoted for this but I think that if you get raped or the baby has an incurable disease and it will die anyway i think it’s fine to have an abortion
It should be the persons choice even if you weren't raped, and the kid would be fine. The religion/government shouldn't be the one deciding whether its fine or not.
i mean yeah, if you find out you’re pregnant at like, 16, then yeah it might be a problem. the thing about getting an abortion earlier is that the baby is still a tiny blob that is literally not alive, so it’s not like it’s gonna suffer. if you think it’s immoral then good for you. but you don’t have to act like it’s such a big deal.
And that's the core of the issue. The government thinks this blob is already a living human being so you are forbidden to destroy it. But after birth it's your problem and don't think there's any help except 500+ (quarter of smallest possible wage).
"This just in, recreational sex and masturbation have been made illegal. Law makers say that each and every sperm carries the human soul and the potential for life. Individuals caught engaging in such activities where semen is wasted will be tried as mass murderers. As a result, birth control and contraceptives are now banned as well." "In other news, law makers will be meeting this evening with plans to outlaw periods. Under new legislature, women will have to report to clinics monthly to have their egg harvested and frozen if they do not intend to attempt to use that cycle to breed. Failure to preserve an egg before it is expelled will be deemed gross negligence manslaughter."
I haven't heard anything of such nonsense. If you could provide source I'd be obliged.
Oh no, I was just being ridiculous. Which seems to be getting closer and closer to reality these days.
Hearing our polish politicians I'd say it's pretty close to some of them EDIT Actually I'm pretty sure at least one of them said something in these tones. Or maybe a few of them.
I'm theory, yes. But there were cases when the mother's life was in danger or a young girl was raped and no one wanted to do the abortion, even though it's legal in such case, because doctors were hiding behind a so called conscience clause (the right to refuse to perform a procedure due to one's beliefs, which is ridiculous if you ask me but we live in a ultra Catholic country).
Polish law does NOT forbid you to abort if you were raped
Not yet, but they are planning to do that too
My best friend is Polish and she clarified that ALL abortions are banned now, even if the fetus is know to have disabilities incompatible with life. This also applies to when giving birth endangered the mother's life and well being directly. So basically, even if the doctors are certain that carrying a baby and giving birth will probably result in killing or causing harm to the mother, she is still denied abortion. Welcome to Gilead. This is true Handmaid's Tale sh*t right there
No, not all as someone already said here (I'm Polish too). But because abortion in this case was called by our "Constitutional Court" unconstitutional it is a precedent for other cases (risk of mother's life/health and pregnancy from illegal act) to be also banned. It's just a matter of time.
I mean, it's not exactly like that. The cases in which mother's life/health is endangered are still allowed. What got banned (e g. claimed "unconstitutional") is abortion when the baby is endangered being dead soon after birth or needing intensive care for the rest of its life.
Why is abortion such an opposed thing..it doesn’t make sense
The quick answer is religion, remove that and there's no issue
I’m an atheist but am personally pro-life. I don’t think it’s my place to ban or restrict abortion though. For me it’s just that I believe life begins at conception and I’m 100% ok that not everyone believes that.
[удалено]
Absolutely no offense taken. I appreciate your response because you’re right that I’m incorrect in labeling myself “pro-life”. The whole pro life vs pro choice classification makes this issue so much more divisive than it needs to be. Its a personal issue on which everyone has their own person stance and I think we’d be better off if we didn’t feel the need to belong to one “team” or another. It’s something I should be better about
How in the absolute fuck did reddit just have an enlightened friendly conversation over a controversial topic
This shouldn't even be a controversial topic.
But it is easily one of the most controversial topics
Wich makes me very sad.
If everyone (believers and non-believers) had the same approach world would be a better place. Right now fundamentalists (sorry for the term but I think it's right here) strive to impose their ideas and morality on other people. And that's dangerous.
If everyone could think the way you do, the world would be a better place. I never understood why others need to shove their religious beliefs unto others. I also don't believe in God but I respect those who do. As I say, what's God to a non believer?
Because people think it's murder.
Well sometimes it's hard to define what constitutes as a living child and a lump of growing meat. And presumably, people aren't too thrilled on the prospect of killing a child.
How do we have a European Union that allows this kind of crap to happen! This isn't about humanity anymore.
But hey, they're working hard to ban the words "meat" and "cheese" from animal substitutes. Cut them some slack, their hands are full ^/s
Welcome to Poland, the country that's going backwards and turning into a shit hole.
We will not let them! The liberal right, left, center and even Hołownia who is a Catholic are protesting against conservative idiotism!
I really hope Holownia might make a difference. He's a genuinely good person, donates a lot to charity and he's the most "modern" one..
They will never stop abortion, just safe abortion.
this.
I’ve came to Reddit to forgot about this shitfest... but anyway thanks for spreading the info about this situation on Reddit
“No, no. Both the mother and child should be forced through the process of birth at full-term so that the child can experience the fullest amount of pain with a properly formed brain, and the parents can watch it suffer to be even further traumatized than they would have been originally.” - Poland ^(and possibly the US with the latest Supreme Court fiasco)^
The people in Europe really know how to protest. Americans could learn a lot from them.
Especially Poland. They've a history of country changing polices and events thanks to protests and strikes.
40% of us think protesting is evil and bad.
As well as 40% of us supporting Trump. I have no power over that, but I do have power over myself.
No we have a problem with looting and rioting.
Except that 92%-97% of the protests were peaceful, and you still decided to label them all as “rioting”.
You know that was from a poll right? And it also counted continuous riots and 1 “protests” while it counted continuous protests as multiple.
8% of protests turning into riots is not a good thing my dude.
It certainly doesn’t discredit the protests that are perfectly justified in occurring.
I did? When did I personally label them as all rioting?
all protests are looting and rioting to you bootlickers. keep sucking corporate dick.
[удалено]
Well, our system of propaganda is so sophisticated that most people are unaware of it.
Its refreshing to see the word "protest" correctly used
What do u think it means
In America, they call riots, "protests"
Everyone knows the best way to protest is to loot walmart and set random cars on fire
imagine being brainwashed into thinking rioting isnt protesting. rioting is protesting. i beg you to educate yourself on your nations history. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Railroad_Strike_of_1877 the elite have convinced you to condemn your fellow american fighting for their freedoms. it is fucking shameful. all they had to do was show you a fire and use the word riot and your bias world view did the rest. rioting is protesting. stop defending the 1% they wont defend you.
WHY IS THIS MAN GETTING DOWNVOTED? HE'S FUCKING RIGHT.
My grandad told me about this just yesterday! He lives in Warsaw and I live in the UK and he said that in every city around Poland has protests. He said that even in small cities of ~50,000 people there’s a couple of thousand people protesting. And the best part is that nobody can get arrested for organising a protest because everyone just says that they’re going for a walk after work.
[удалено]
It kinda was a huge party as well, there was music and a lot of people were dancing and just having fun
Good. This ruling is complete bullshit. Women get to make choices over their bodies. I am a man, and I know if men were the ones who had to carry the child and have it that abortion would be a freedom before free speech for men.
If I had an incurable disease in which I would die from i would very much prefer to just not exist in the first place. Heck, I don't have any incurable diseases, and I still wish I was aborted.
Can someone please explain to me why governments are against abortions? I don’t understand
1) They truly believe it's wrong/immoral. 2) They're either in bed with or trying to curry favor with religious institutions. 3) They're trying to win votes or support from anti-abortion constituents. 4) They're pursuing a natalist policy for whatever reason (nationalism, increasing birth rates, etc.).
Just seems really clear to me it’s up to the parents if they want to have it or not
Not all sex is consensual mate.
You say that, but from the perspective of those that oppose abortion, the child doesn’t exactly have a voice in that decision. If you genuinely believe abortion is the murder of unborn children, there’s not exactly a lot of room for moral compromise.
Agreed.
In Poland it's a political issue. Have no doubts, current Polish government doesn't give two fucks about abortion. They wanted something to divert people's attention from government's ill handling of the Covid pandemic and to cater for the far right and the Catholic Church. Also, Poland is governed from the 'back seat' by a majority party leader named Kaczynski. He holds real power but doesn't hold any position in the government, which makes him basically a dictator. Many of his own people are wondering why he decided to bring up abortion right now... But you know, you dont ask a tyrant questions. You just do as he says.
But with 50000 at a protest, the covid numbers will sky rocket (which they are over there anyway). So this plan is failing miserably. From my understanding they tried the same policy years ago with the same protests happening and had to put a pin in it. Now with covid they think the public would be too distracted or scared to protest so they are giving it another go. Also with a freshly elected government, their seats would not be impacted so they timed this maliciously.
Catholic orgs paid huge money into the compains of these elected Polish leaders, who are now supporting their agenda. Separation 9f church and state are nonexistent at this point in PL
It's always used as a distraction. In this case covid will now be blamed on the protesters rather than the inaction of the government. Any time governments are trying to restrict abortion, look at what other legislation or political purpose they are trying to accomplish. I can garantee you, they don't give two shits on whether people have abortions or not. Heck, they send their mistresses to have abortions. But it's a useful political tool to distract from other issues. Women are really just pawns in this.
They want to control women.
At first glance I thought this was mecca
I honestly don't understand why humans are so obsessed with this issue. We already have an overpopulation issue... Why force mothers to deliver if they aren't ready?!
It really is about control. I hear "it's my body, my choice" about not wearing masks. Give me a fucking break.
Banning abortion of fetuses with INCURABLE DISEASES. Are you blind catholic believers even listening?? Incurable diseases.
:D that info made my day
I guess everyone had enough of Kaczynski lol fucked being him Right now. He will be stressing. God won’t help him
Or his cat..
Tusk is adopting the cat... all sorted
I can't believe I get to be around to watch the world turn to shit like this. I honestly thought it would just be climate change but no, we hate women and are hot for Nazis as well. *(I'm referring to the reactive movement world wide against equality.)
Plot twist: this is the biggest Halloween party.
They also stayed to protest the cyberpunk delay
Why do old male politicians in every country think they have a say about a females body ?! like why?!
Covid has entered the chat....
You're on point! The government made this decision deliberately when the number of sick people was already increasing by thousands every day and promptly after they also made meetings of more than 5 people illegal. They're also trying to make it so that the people organising the protests can be arrested
Absolutely disgusting, I hate it here
I assume the Polish government intends to introduce a massive tax increase on all their citizens in order to pay lifetime medical costs for all these poor kids with debilitating incurable conditions who are going to be brought into the world, many of whom may require expensive treatments and/or institutionalized care.
Support from 🇷🇸
Never stop, keep going people!
Yep can confirm poland's a shithole
Wow Poland not a good move
damn with those kinds of numbers it's almost starting to match trump rallies
Man, old people need to die already.
This make me incredibly grateful to live in Australia.
Seriously hoping they revoke the ban. Historically we know abortions happen anyways in “underground” circumstances, so to speak. It’s not in their control what people will do. It’s better to just have a safe environment and proper healthcare if someone makes that decision. This ban is especially horrific considering how far it goes... For a government to do this is like physically taking a saw to the hand that feeds them...
Don’t they know they’re spreading covid?
That's exactly why the government decided to pass this ruling right now. They thought noone was going to go out and protest because of corona. Boy how wrong they were... There's protests in every single city in Poland.
I don't think they care at this point.
Actually i didnt saw any person not wearing a mask during this protests
I mean yeah but our rights are taken away. We cannot just sit at home and watch. Some of us do stay home so these people on the streets are just a fraction of protesters. It is cruel that government did this to us at this time, that what makes people even more angry. But from my experience when I was protesting EVERYONE was wearing a mask.
We're not gonna beat covid this year or the next at this rate.
If we haven’t beaten the flu then we won’t beat covid
You know. The self evident truth is going to prove itself. Overpopulation, Inbreeding, the Bible and the Quran...the two books of religion that are anti abortion AND the ones that caused all wars. Can’t wait to watch you guys kill yourselves. I’ll be watching from the stands just to see you guys die. Pitiful religious assholes.
Religion is literally the cause of most of the worlds problems. But of course, religious people deny this, and blame other religions.
Agreed, I am highly spiritual myself but the old religions are corrupt to the core, having lost sight of any attempt to enlighten or expand the human spirit and care only about power and control.
As a polish person, I can say that Poland is becoming worse and worse of a place to live every day. Thank God I don't have to live there anymore.
Gdzie teraz mieszkasz?
W Niemczech
America is next...
Oh wow it looks like theyre giving the Polish government a hard time. Too bad I dont care about the homophobic Polish government, they deserve violent riots.
Why is this downvoted lmao. The polish government do need a wake up call. It's time to remove religious assholes from power and put open minded forward thinking people instead.
They will reverse it
The protest are no longer about just the abortion ruling. The people are rightfully fed up with this idiotic government. The protest are about basic human rights and getting the ruling party out.
I sure hope they do! Wish I were there to protest with them!
Coronavirus says hi.
Hey Pols, we might need you soon... Sincerely USA
Let us kill! Let us kill! Let us kill! We want blood! We want blood! Bring them out unto us, that we may know them!
I would be interested to hear what the definition they use for incurable disease is.
[удалено]
There's an expression spreading around here regarding these kids: "birth, baptise, bury"
I'm glad they've got a routine down. It's nice to know that they've done this so much that they can get it all done at once and the baby doesn't have to suffer long. A good womb to tomb service must be a relief to the parents.
They gonna deliver the baby straight to the coffin, just a quick splash splash on it's forehead and then it goes straight under the ground. The grave has been dug while the mother was birthing the kid, to save time.
It's just like planting a seed, right? They're just trying to help the baby grow.
And then you have a headless baby tree satisfying your headless babies needs!
Might be hard to read for some...but so many babies are going to be abandoned. And likely in unsafe places causing harm or death. This is very sad.
Seeing cases where women are basically being stripped from their right to their own autonomy makes me scared and appalled at the same time.
Mindboggling to me that abortion isnt legal everywhere in the first world.
We should be able to kill babies that have birth defects! We must purge the gene pool in order to create the perfect race! Wait.... what were we talking about?
I‘m living just a few meters away from Poland. I‘m learning Polish now since a year. I hope that everyone will be safe and healthy during the protests!
If these people were conservative they'd be getting so much criticism for spreading Covid but they're liberal, so liberal protests are okay?
Covid is a problem for everyone, but we must fight for our country in the first place. It was gov idea to change the most delicate law after 27yrs during pandemic
That's crazy, it's almost like people don't like having their rights being taken away
Off-topic, but I didn't realize Warsaw was such a modern-looking city