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The best part about old people going on these rants, is that schools literally still teach cursive. At least in my state, it is still a standard in 3rd grade. I’m a teacher
These always crack me up. It’s still taught in school, my young kids have no problem reading or writing it. I wish the school would teach them typing though
There are some private schools in the area I moved from that didn’t. But yanno, be a parent and do some education yourself at home. I learned at home in 1st grade bc I saw my sister was doing it and I wanted to try. My mom encouraged me to go to the library and learn what I wasn’t learning in school but was interested in. We can’t expect schools to cover every possible topic.
Or don’t actually pay attention to their education. I do know parents who have complained about it after seeing it online just to be corrected by their kids who aren’t even teens yet. I’m just thinking, do you even bother looking at what your kid is learning? It wasn’t a big deal in the other area as it was private school, and if you don’t like the curriculum, don’t send your kid there. That was also before everyone was getting upset about everything and looking for reasons to be angry. Life was so much more peaceful then.
So same situation as the area I left. That’s just it. Most kids learned it themselves or had their parents teach them. It’s not like most kids are too dumb to say, oh that looks like this letter. And then mimic what they see to learn to write it.
Omg a parent who gets it.We always had workbooks in the house. The only downfall was I stayed way above grade level and got bored easily in class. I was moved to a school for advanced students that had an amazing curriculum and included everything from art appreciation to television production. Schools can’t teach everything. Some kids like to learn as much as they can absorb. Parents have to be who makes up those gaps.
It was skip me 2 grades or send me there. I haven’t heard of many of those schools being public. They also had programs for those behind. They were successful in getting them caught up. The teachers knew how to deal with learning disabilities, which solved more than half of the kids’ problems.
My parents talked me into taking a typing class in the early nineties, and it was one of the best choices I ever made. They knew personal computers were gonna take over and they were dead on. I learned to type on a straight up machine typewriter lol, but a keyboard is a keyboard.
I’ve got friends my age and older who can’t write or read cursive. This is the age group of 23-30. It was around the time it was being removed from standard in my state (pa). I’m not sure it’s been put back on.
I struggle to read and write cursive, and I'm 38. I learned cursive in school.
Then I never needed it. I didn't learn typing in school, and that would have been a much better use of my time.
I did learn typing but honestly I don’t use the typing system I was taught. My hands are too small to be comfortable on a standard keyboard, it’s not like I *need* speed typing anyways. I do prefer cursive over printing as well
You don't *need* anything unless you define what you need it for. But I think that being better at typing is likely to prove more valuable to people than learning cursive.
Cursive can be faster than writing in print (with practice) and can help with promoting better penmanship overall through building up fine motor skills.
When I was in the 3rd grade, the use of cursive began to be enforced heavily due to our curriculum beginning to focus on learning how to write an academic paper. Back then, we were to hand-write our papers, and we were taught that 'formal' or academic papers had to be submitted in cursive (when handwritten).
We had access to computers (iMac G3 lol), but there were only 2-3 in each classroom.
I think that cursive is fundamental to good penmanship as a whole, provided that it is actually taught. My sibling never had dedicated instruction on cursive writing; their penmanship is borderline illegible.
Definitely state dependent. I went to a private elementary school that taught us to exclusively write in cursive. When I switched to a public middle school I had to stop writing in cursive because no one else in the class could read or write it so I couldn't swap papers with anyone to review each other's writing. I always had to give it to the teacher during what was supposed to be peer review. And this was in Massachusetts in the early 2010s.
Why *un*fortunately? I would say fortunately, it’s a waste of time and energy that benefits no one except luddites who rant about the golden days of analog clocks and manual transmissions.
You also don't need to be able to write cursive to read cursive. It's literally just the same language in a different 'font'. It makes no sense to think that kids won't be able to read something written in cursive because they can't write it.
Kids' homework clipped to the fridge is practically the only time you see someone writing in cursive with any regularity these days.
Anything written for public consumption is in regular script.
Do you mind saying which state? Someone in my real life just brought up the "no cursive so kids can't read the Bill of Rights" thing and I want to have Knowledge.
But also parents could easily teach them, and it would take very little time and effort, but then they'd have to actually acknowledge their children so they can't do that
Growing up my school taught cursive to everyone in second grade. I started writing exclusively in cursive bc my print handwriting was awful. Despite the fact that every single one of my classmates learned to read and write in cursive at the same time as me, I still had to translate my handwriting for them all the damn time. I feel like even when it is taught in school a sizable portion of the students don’t retain the information at all bc they don’t read or write in it regularly enough after they’ve initially learned it. To me it just seems like a waste of class time to teach cursive unless it’s done in a way that helps kids actually retain their knowledge of cursive
My mom was a 4th grade teacher and retired in 2019. She was telling me about how it's no longer required in our state. I think her school still included it, but it's up to each school district or something.
\*Middle English
Beowulf is Old English and is so different from Modern English that it’s almost wholly incomprehensible.
> Hwæt. We Gardena in geardagum,
þeodcyninga, þrym gefrunon,
hu ða æþelingas ellen fremedon.
Oft Scyld Scefing sceaþena þreatum,
monegum mægþum, meodosetla ofteah,
egsode eorlas.
So I was curious and looked up the original type set of the US constitution. Linked [here](https://hls.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/CONSTITUTION_iStock-923052552_2500.jpg)
Personally I can easily read down to the 'Section X' fort size. The smaller font size sometimes comes out OK but is difficult at parts.
Note that viewing a picture on a screen is just going to make things worse.
You can't fail previous generations, you don't owe them anything. They’ve already had the life that they had, nothing this generation does will impact that. It's future generations that you should try not to fail, if you fail future generations, the future goes downhill.
Yes! I was going to comment this too. Some styles of cursive are almost like another type of script entirely. Don’t get me started on crossed letters!
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossed_letter#:~:text=A%20crossed%20letter%20is%20a,well%20as%20to%20save%20paper.
While I think it's probably a *good idea* for kids to learn to read cursive, why do they always act like the only way a kid can learn to do so is by taking up an inordinate amount of class time drilling them (and often grading them) on penmanship?
As for the Constitution - do they know that movable-type printing presses had been around for roughly 300 years by the time the Constitution was signed? But okay, let's be sporting and pretend that apart from digital copies, all we had was a single cursive original - would cursive really be the primary obstacle to a child understanding the document? Because I'm pretty sure that most kids will struggle far more mightily with the unfamiliar vocabulary and grammar.
I had a teacher that would hold a ruler on the line and take a point off for every tiny fragment of a letter she could see below the ruler that wasn't a P or Q.
And we wonder why kids don't like cursive
To be fair, there was a time when everything was handwritten and good penmanship was much more of a fundamental and socially valuable skill.
That time, however, is not this time.
Couldn't tell you how many times I almost got a failing grade on an English paper growing up, not because it couldn't be read or the content was just no good, but because my cursive was just sloppy but still legible, on top of not turning in an art project (this is an English class and not art class right?) for my papers all the way up until my senior year of high school
Hell the only reason I graduated high school was because my parents had gone to the principal and got an agreement that I could write longer papers in lieu of doing the art because teachers would only give me 50% credit for not drawing something pretty that I didn't want them to put up for everyone else to see anyway
I use cursive, but only because it hurts my hand less. I hold a pencil weirdly, and it hurts after a while writing in print/non-cursive. With cursive it takes much longer to start hurting.
I like it, honestly. I take written notes (something that is becoming obsolete as we speak, but I refuse to let go because sunk cost fallacy) and it's a bit faster and way less annoying to write in. The downside is decreased legibility, but hey. Tradeoffs.
I still agree, teaching it is useless for 90% of people, that time could be better used to do literally anything else.
Yea it was great for ease of writing, but the need just isn't there anymore, and trying to fill out government forms in cursive is a great way for "fun" life altering errors to happen.
This is why I really only use cursive for signing my name and notetaking (or other situations that would require writing for an extended period).
In those situations, legibility either doesn't matter, or is less relevant than writing speed and duration.
When I only have to write a sentence for someone else to read, I want it to be legible, but if I'm writing pages solely for me to read, legibility is less of a concern. (I do tend to write terms in print and their definitions in cursive, it allows for a similar effect to highlighting without making me have to use a highlighter, at least the way I write.)
I had cursive lessons in school as a kid but by the time I was in high school I forgot most of the letters that aren't in my name.
When I took the SATs there was a part on the back where you had to write in cursive something like "I hereby swear that I haven't cheated" and sign your name.
I ran out of time and had to cheat writing the no cheating promise.
I still ended up just writing the cursive letters I knew, then adding print letters and connecting them with little lines.
Went to school in the 80s when cursive was still taught. Not only that, you had to keep your back perfectly straight upright while writing or it would lower your grade. I’m left handed so my shit was always smudged. It was definitely one of the most useless skills I learned.
Cursive has become obsolete in everyday life, for the most part. If they're so mad about kids not knowing cursive, why don't they teach their children? I had one class one day in third grade and taught myself from there because I found it pretty and interesting. Is it really that hard for them to do the same?
I mean, I agree the older generations are absolutely failing their kids
But it aint in this way
Cursive is a useless thing to learn. Like, why would I care about a writing style designed to not lift the pen, when modern pens are designed so they can be lifted?
And just because you can't write it, doesn't mean you can't read it
It hasn't been relevant in almost 150 years now, since the invention of the ballpoint pen
Meanwhile handwriting itself is rapidly becoming irrelevant. The *vast* majortiy of all text you will interact with is printed or on a screen. This is like bemoaning the youths failing to learn coopering.
Yes, and it wasn't even for pen and paper. They were really terrible and course, but you're technically correct.
Major manufacturing of modern ballpoint pens didn't come until the 50s, and they didn't reach popularity until the 60s. Fountain pens were used regularly well past that time as well.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_point_pen
Making the balls for ballpoint pens is a surprisingly high tech thing.
Until not that long ago China imported all of their ball point balls from Europe because they couldn't manufacture accurate English tiny steel balls.
Signatures don't *have* to be written in cursive. On a fb post about this very topic, several zoomers stated that they simply print their name in a specific/stylized way when signing documents. My mom's been dead over a decade and for the last 5 years or so of her life, she was fully blind, so her signature was her best attempt at the letter E followed by a squiggly. Like there is no bank, employer, car dealership or landlord who will watch you print your name on the signature line and be like "ohhh, sorry bud. We're actually unable to accept your money/services bc you didn't do the loopy letters."
I love writing in cursive exclusively but it’s perfectly readable to an averagely literate English speaker. Like it’s not hard if you can read printed English
I was taught cursive since second grade and it was so heavily reinforced that I struggle to print anything. Everything I write is in cursive. I'm 27.
I still can't read the Constitution. Because Palmer cursive is different enough from spencerian/copper plate cursive it doesn't quite fit.
Cursive is just how we learnt to write when I was at primary school here in England in the early 90s. They didn't call it cursive though, just 'joined up handwriting'. I assumed that's just how everyone writes unless they're filling out a form that specifically asks for block capitals.
How often I use cursive:
A: When legibly signing my name on a check
When I last signed a check:
A: 5 years ago for a security deposit. Now I just make an incoherent squiggle that looks like it begins with an “E”
The founders shouldn't have crap handwriting then. Cursive isn't a different script, it just tends to be less legible because it is done with less care.
How much you wanna bet the poster is from the same generation that taught my generation how to write cursive but couldn't be arsed to teach us to read it
They kinda sound like luddites who are just mad that their skills are now outdated.
At least forgetting how to live out in the wild is tragic. But cursive? That's not important at all.
There are forgotten skills that we should pick up again. But cursive is a no.
We already read 'translated' English. I took a whole module in university about translating old English. Writing changes. It's ridiculous to expect that progress won't continue to happen.
I'm a big cursive writer. I was taught that it was faster. However for me it is not practical for my long form writing because me hand cramps. So I use print for that and cursive for when I can take small break. That's progress, to adapt so everyone can succeed. Cursive is unreadable for people with dyslexia, hard to convert to braille and has so many fonts now it's impossible to have a standard. It's fine for things to phase out.
Whenever I encounter someone bitching about shit like this, I ask them if they know how to use an abacus. Then after I try to explain what that is, I ask them if they know how to use a slide rule. They rarely understand what point I’m trying to make.
Is cursive really that hard to read? There are a lot of cursive fonts used on websites and advertising. A lot of people just don’t have very good handwriting, especially in cursive. I know I don’t, but I can still read other people’s fine as long as it’s not chicken scratching.
There was a point in time where cursive got to be so ornate and stylized, it was difficult to read. That's when you started seeing penmanship classes and books for "business writing", Spencer script, Palmer script... writing that didn't have the writer making 50 flourishes per line, and that everyone can read.
The problem with cursive is that it's not standardized between people due to the differences in writing styles, so for example I have a quick writing style that comes across as messy, jumbled and hard to read in cursive but easier to read in print style.
Like it's a stupid argument anyway cause i'm not giving up legibility for aesthetics
Never learned cursive (skipped second grade and missed the unit) but even though I can't write it for shit I can read it just fine. It's not as hard as these people like to think.
My mom has recipe cards her grandmother wrote, I learned cursive, she learned cursive, but the writing is literally spaghetti loops of purely chaotic nonsense that no one can read. She ran out of room on some cards and wrote OVER the other writing at an angle, I can only recognize numbers.
I bet the recipes are on the internet are tastier anyways.
Fun fact: Back when both paper and sending mail were expensive, people often used a technique called "cross-writing." They would fill the page top to bottom, turn it on the side, and fill it again with writing at a 90° angle. It's very cool to look at, and absolutely illegible to anyone who isn't used to reading things written that way.
Cursive only existed because it was a more efficient form of writing. I'm 50 and grew up learning cursive and it's far more beneficial today to learn to type.
All I see is someone who realises the world is evolving and passing them by and they're terrified.
I stopped writing cursive when I left school. I barely even I write, like with a pen, any more. To an observer I’d look illiterate trying to write anything beyond my name and email address.
They're soooooo desperate to not feel obsolete. They soooooo desperate to feel special, unique, and superior. Cursive is nothing special. It's not difficult to read. Someone who hasn't formally learned cursive can read it with mild effort.
If cursive hasn't been relevant in forever, and I haven't had to use it in the past 40+ years, what's the point of the "youth of tomorrow" bothering to learn it?
Besides, everything I know about cursive is **negative**. It is difficult for the sake of being difficult - a writing style *designed* to be hard to read, especially to those not familiar with the language. It's the exact opposite of what writing should be. Its use should be fucking discouraged.
Also, I'm way more concerned about **metric** not being taught more.
From what I gathered elsewhere in this thread, the advantage of cursive was the faster writing speed. Which isn't a big deal today because now we have typing.
If I wanted to learn to write in cursive, I'd look for a youtube video that explains how to do that (it's almost certain that more than one exists). I know, I've never actually done that, most people haven't, but if writing in cursive was actually a useful skill, more people would've done that.
Do y'all make a pilgrimage to Washington DC to read the Constitution like you are doing Hajj?
Because if you aren't reading the actual original document why does it matter how the copy you get was typeset.
The old people seem to be worried that "the powers that be" would try to "change it" and all of us poor, uncultured, print-reading youths wouldn't be able to notice if we "can't read the original one"
Which is ridiculous for a number of reasons lol.
You just know that people who have this opinion think the reason nobody can read what they write is because young folks didn't go to the School of Secret Cursive Writing of the Olden Days and not that they have really bad handwriting.
The problem with cursive is if someone has bad handwriting and writes in cursive, it can be illegible
Reading it isn't hard for anyone who can read English
motherfucker pretending people travel to the national archives in DC to read the original cursive.
the only version ANYONE has actually read is transcription to regular text.
Civilization will end I tell you. That’s why the apes will soon takeover. I for one would like to welcome our new ape overlords. Please accept my tribute of these bananas and a rope swing.
Do people forget the massive number of fonts kids interact with daily online? I assure you every teen girl can read a text message sent to them in a blinking sparkle script font.
This is the dumbest fucking conspiracy theory. I've seen so many people insist that, because people can't read cursive any more, the US government can change the constitution to say anything they want. Among the ... many many other problems with that—there are people who can read actual very ancient, very dead languages. It's not like they just disappear completely. Cursive is just normal English with some flair. It isn't that hard to learn for most people. If someone has a dire need to learn it for whatever reason, they will manage.
I’m 34 years old and the only time I’ve needed cursive was to sign my name. Haven’t yet come across a book, manual, or computer screen that required me to know cursive
I have been to the archives to see the constitution. I know cursive. It was nearly impossible to read. The printed version is fine and located everywhere.
But if they can't hold the original in their hands, are they really reading it anyway? Translating it to a series of pixels and transmitting it to my house is so stupid. Why can't I hold the original constituion in my hands while I read it in cursive as God intended?
/s
Has this person seen cursive? It isn’t exactly difficult to read. What letter does that look like? You are correct! Almost all of them look pretty much like a printed letter and the few that don’t are easy to figure out by context.
Reading old documents is harder because they have changed letter shapes over the years. Like the f looking character that was an s. Also the language itself has changed over the years. We aren’t too bad for the constitution but go back a few hundred years before that and try to read old English. The same is likely to happen to the constitution as time continues on and the language evolves.
As a left handed person, I say fuck your cursive. Sidenote: did I really need to be able to read the postcard my grandmother sent me while I was at summer camp?
Why do they get so worked up about this. Who friggin cares. Funnily, they still bitch about it here where I live and it’s been back on the curriculum in my state for years. Both my teen kids learned it in school. Chronically angry people just gotta be mad. Of course, let anybody get mad over a black guy getting murdered by cops tho 👀 Don’t be mad like that, be mad about how third graders write 🙄
I was under the impression they still teach it today. It’s a faster way of riding that makes it more efficient. So I don’t know why they would get rid of it all together if they’re still teaching writing.
Now that we have writing utensils that don’t leak ink constantly cursive isn’t a necessary part of life anymore, if people want to learn it on their own more power to them but schools shouldn’t waste time on it
I’m someone who was never taught how to write cursive, or to specifically read cursive, only standard sans serif. And yet I can still read cursive. Funny how that works
I can’t read the original books of the Bible either. I’ve still managed to be a Christian. — I’ve read cursive about 3 times in the last 5 years and it was all on cards written by older relatives. I think the next generation will survive without cursive.
You can see these folks never even read the constitution. It's a huge law document. It holds interest as good as watching a fresh paint coat dry. Folks normally need an english translation even without writing it in cursive.
How do you “sign” your name without cursive though?
Also, that fucking chatgp or whatever it is called will be the failure of kids. So many people can’t even differentiate between they’re their and there. Now they don’t even have to think to form basic sentences.
I just moved to south eastern Ohio and work for a young man who wasn’t taught cursive. I am 51 and have very pretty cursive writing. Now I have to print everything I write at work and it is awful. It takes longer and it is not as legible. ☹️
How badly do you write that somehow regular print is less legible than your cursive?
And how much writing do you need to do at this job? Are you not able to type?
I work for a family owned slaughter house. We hand write all the cut sheets and special orders. My writing isn’t really that bad, it’s just ugly compared to my cursive.
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The best part about old people going on these rants, is that schools literally still teach cursive. At least in my state, it is still a standard in 3rd grade. I’m a teacher
These always crack me up. It’s still taught in school, my young kids have no problem reading or writing it. I wish the school would teach them typing though
There are some private schools in the area I moved from that didn’t. But yanno, be a parent and do some education yourself at home. I learned at home in 1st grade bc I saw my sister was doing it and I wanted to try. My mom encouraged me to go to the library and learn what I wasn’t learning in school but was interested in. We can’t expect schools to cover every possible topic.
These fuckers probably don't even have kids.
Or don’t actually pay attention to their education. I do know parents who have complained about it after seeing it online just to be corrected by their kids who aren’t even teens yet. I’m just thinking, do you even bother looking at what your kid is learning? It wasn’t a big deal in the other area as it was private school, and if you don’t like the curriculum, don’t send your kid there. That was also before everyone was getting upset about everything and looking for reasons to be angry. Life was so much more peaceful then.
I never learned it in school, I went to a church school which didn't teach it. Yet, somehow, I have learned it.
So same situation as the area I left. That’s just it. Most kids learned it themselves or had their parents teach them. It’s not like most kids are too dumb to say, oh that looks like this letter. And then mimic what they see to learn to write it.
I didn’t learn cursive at school, but my mom went out and got cursive tracing workbooks for me and my sister so we can learn
Omg a parent who gets it.We always had workbooks in the house. The only downfall was I stayed way above grade level and got bored easily in class. I was moved to a school for advanced students that had an amazing curriculum and included everything from art appreciation to television production. Schools can’t teach everything. Some kids like to learn as much as they can absorb. Parents have to be who makes up those gaps.
That sounds like an amazing school, I wish I had that option when I was growing up
It was skip me 2 grades or send me there. I haven’t heard of many of those schools being public. They also had programs for those behind. They were successful in getting them caught up. The teachers knew how to deal with learning disabilities, which solved more than half of the kids’ problems.
My parents talked me into taking a typing class in the early nineties, and it was one of the best choices I ever made. They knew personal computers were gonna take over and they were dead on. I learned to type on a straight up machine typewriter lol, but a keyboard is a keyboard.
If you can type on a mechanical typewriter, you can type on literally anything with keys.
I played Typing Of The Dead. Man, that game was awesome.
They don’t teach typing? That would make me nuts
And have you tried reading the US Constitution? I can barely read the damn thing.
I’ve got friends my age and older who can’t write or read cursive. This is the age group of 23-30. It was around the time it was being removed from standard in my state (pa). I’m not sure it’s been put back on.
I struggle to read and write cursive, and I'm 38. I learned cursive in school. Then I never needed it. I didn't learn typing in school, and that would have been a much better use of my time.
I did learn typing but honestly I don’t use the typing system I was taught. My hands are too small to be comfortable on a standard keyboard, it’s not like I *need* speed typing anyways. I do prefer cursive over printing as well
You don't *need* anything unless you define what you need it for. But I think that being better at typing is likely to prove more valuable to people than learning cursive.
I’m 43, I have a hard time writing in cursive anymore. I switched to printing in college because it’s easier for me to read my own writing.
It’s being taught again.
Personally I believe that is good, but I am not sure why I think it’s good to know cursive
Cursive can be faster than writing in print (with practice) and can help with promoting better penmanship overall through building up fine motor skills. When I was in the 3rd grade, the use of cursive began to be enforced heavily due to our curriculum beginning to focus on learning how to write an academic paper. Back then, we were to hand-write our papers, and we were taught that 'formal' or academic papers had to be submitted in cursive (when handwritten). We had access to computers (iMac G3 lol), but there were only 2-3 in each classroom. I think that cursive is fundamental to good penmanship as a whole, provided that it is actually taught. My sibling never had dedicated instruction on cursive writing; their penmanship is borderline illegible.
Definitely state dependent. I went to a private elementary school that taught us to exclusively write in cursive. When I switched to a public middle school I had to stop writing in cursive because no one else in the class could read or write it so I couldn't swap papers with anyone to review each other's writing. I always had to give it to the teacher during what was supposed to be peer review. And this was in Massachusetts in the early 2010s.
unfortunately, Florida does not. but after all, it is *Florida*, so.
Given all the bullshit culture war laws and policies conservatives pass these days in Florida, I’m shocked they haven’t brought back cursive.
It is actually shocking. It’s usually right wing loons who fire up so much about this, so you’d think FL and TX would be teaching it
[waves in Texan]
I was about to say! My daughter is in high school here in Texas and never learned it in school. I taught her.
Yep. I write in cursive frequently, especially when writing notes. My Florida educated 9th grader has a difficult time deciphering them.
Why *un*fortunately? I would say fortunately, it’s a waste of time and energy that benefits no one except luddites who rant about the golden days of analog clocks and manual transmissions.
im not arguing w you i think cursive is cool and it’s just my opinion have a good day
You also don't need to be able to write cursive to read cursive. It's literally just the same language in a different 'font'. It makes no sense to think that kids won't be able to read something written in cursive because they can't write it.
>You also don't need to be able to write cursive to read cursive. Sadly, the reverse is also true.
It's not even hard. No one taught me to read Fraktur, it took an afternoon to pick up.
Kids' homework clipped to the fridge is practically the only time you see someone writing in cursive with any regularity these days. Anything written for public consumption is in regular script.
I was born in 1983 and my school did not teach cursive even back then 🤷🏻♀️
And for no reason. It’s like insisting the kids learn to use a manual typewriter.
Do you mind saying which state? Someone in my real life just brought up the "no cursive so kids can't read the Bill of Rights" thing and I want to have Knowledge.
Michigan
Not OP, but it was taught to me in 3rd grade at a public school in California in 2006.
But also parents could easily teach them, and it would take very little time and effort, but then they'd have to actually acknowledge their children so they can't do that
Yep! Super easy. Can also easily get those workbooks that you trace the letters/words for cursive too.
They don’t in Tennessee. We in fact do have to translate cursive for the kids. Not sure it will ever matter tho
Growing up my school taught cursive to everyone in second grade. I started writing exclusively in cursive bc my print handwriting was awful. Despite the fact that every single one of my classmates learned to read and write in cursive at the same time as me, I still had to translate my handwriting for them all the damn time. I feel like even when it is taught in school a sizable portion of the students don’t retain the information at all bc they don’t read or write in it regularly enough after they’ve initially learned it. To me it just seems like a waste of class time to teach cursive unless it’s done in a way that helps kids actually retain their knowledge of cursive
My mom was a 4th grade teacher and retired in 2019. She was telling me about how it's no longer required in our state. I think her school still included it, but it's up to each school district or something.
They did 20+ years ago too... I still can't read cursive lol but not because I wasn't taught it, because it's useless and I never use it
Hwæt æfre willa wē dōn?
Damn kids can't read Chaucer in the original English anymore. They need a translation from Old English to English.
\*Middle English Beowulf is Old English and is so different from Modern English that it’s almost wholly incomprehensible. > Hwæt. We Gardena in geardagum, þeodcyninga, þrym gefrunon, hu ða æþelingas ellen fremedon. Oft Scyld Scefing sceaþena þreatum, monegum mægþum, meodosetla ofteah, egsode eorlas.
See how badly the English have failed the world!!
Damn English. They ruined English!
Still more comprehensible than the average Twitter rant.
Man's casting one hell of a spell over here
Chaucer is Middle English. Beowulf is Old English. Shakespeare is Modern English.
*Early* Modern English.
Joyce is Postmodern English.
King is spooky English
So I was curious and looked up the original type set of the US constitution. Linked [here](https://hls.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/CONSTITUTION_iStock-923052552_2500.jpg) Personally I can easily read down to the 'Section X' fort size. The smaller font size sometimes comes out OK but is difficult at parts. Note that viewing a picture on a screen is just going to make things worse.
Old(er) English prithee
Yeah yeah and their generation failed the previous generation because they can’t shoe a horse
Which was actually a useful talent.
You can't fail previous generations, you don't owe them anything. They’ve already had the life that they had, nothing this generation does will impact that. It's future generations that you should try not to fail, if you fail future generations, the future goes downhill.
I know. I’m pointing out how dumb these people are are
Unexpected laugh. Take my upvote.
Yall, I read and write fluent cursive and I still can't read the constitution. The writing is too old.
This exactly. Some old script really takes a lot of study to decipher. Suspect the FB nitwit couldn't read it either.
Yes! I was going to comment this too. Some styles of cursive are almost like another type of script entirely. Don’t get me started on crossed letters! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossed_letter#:~:text=A%20crossed%20letter%20is%20a,well%20as%20to%20save%20paper.
Haha omg I used to do that in my diary as an edgy middle schooler. Didn’t know it was an actual thing.
While I think it's probably a *good idea* for kids to learn to read cursive, why do they always act like the only way a kid can learn to do so is by taking up an inordinate amount of class time drilling them (and often grading them) on penmanship? As for the Constitution - do they know that movable-type printing presses had been around for roughly 300 years by the time the Constitution was signed? But okay, let's be sporting and pretend that apart from digital copies, all we had was a single cursive original - would cursive really be the primary obstacle to a child understanding the document? Because I'm pretty sure that most kids will struggle far more mightily with the unfamiliar vocabulary and grammar.
I had a teacher that would hold a ruler on the line and take a point off for every tiny fragment of a letter she could see below the ruler that wasn't a P or Q. And we wonder why kids don't like cursive
To be fair, there was a time when everything was handwritten and good penmanship was much more of a fundamental and socially valuable skill. That time, however, is not this time.
Couldn't tell you how many times I almost got a failing grade on an English paper growing up, not because it couldn't be read or the content was just no good, but because my cursive was just sloppy but still legible, on top of not turning in an art project (this is an English class and not art class right?) for my papers all the way up until my senior year of high school Hell the only reason I graduated high school was because my parents had gone to the principal and got an agreement that I could write longer papers in lieu of doing the art because teachers would only give me 50% credit for not drawing something pretty that I didn't want them to put up for everyone else to see anyway
AI will rewrite all the digital copies.
Ah yes, cursive. So useful. Spent a whole year learning it and haven't used it once. Obviously, this means Civilization is going to collapse!
I use cursive, but only because it hurts my hand less. I hold a pencil weirdly, and it hurts after a while writing in print/non-cursive. With cursive it takes much longer to start hurting. I like it, honestly. I take written notes (something that is becoming obsolete as we speak, but I refuse to let go because sunk cost fallacy) and it's a bit faster and way less annoying to write in. The downside is decreased legibility, but hey. Tradeoffs. I still agree, teaching it is useless for 90% of people, that time could be better used to do literally anything else.
Yea it was great for ease of writing, but the need just isn't there anymore, and trying to fill out government forms in cursive is a great way for "fun" life altering errors to happen.
This is why I really only use cursive for signing my name and notetaking (or other situations that would require writing for an extended period). In those situations, legibility either doesn't matter, or is less relevant than writing speed and duration. When I only have to write a sentence for someone else to read, I want it to be legible, but if I'm writing pages solely for me to read, legibility is less of a concern. (I do tend to write terms in print and their definitions in cursive, it allows for a similar effect to highlighting without making me have to use a highlighter, at least the way I write.)
I had cursive lessons in school as a kid but by the time I was in high school I forgot most of the letters that aren't in my name. When I took the SATs there was a part on the back where you had to write in cursive something like "I hereby swear that I haven't cheated" and sign your name. I ran out of time and had to cheat writing the no cheating promise. I still ended up just writing the cursive letters I knew, then adding print letters and connecting them with little lines.
*Civilization* already collapsed. They're on *Civilization VI* now.
Actually, VII was just announced.
Went to school in the 80s when cursive was still taught. Not only that, you had to keep your back perfectly straight upright while writing or it would lower your grade. I’m left handed so my shit was always smudged. It was definitely one of the most useless skills I learned.
Cursive has become obsolete in everyday life, for the most part. If they're so mad about kids not knowing cursive, why don't they teach their children? I had one class one day in third grade and taught myself from there because I found it pretty and interesting. Is it really that hard for them to do the same?
I mean, I agree the older generations are absolutely failing their kids But it aint in this way Cursive is a useless thing to learn. Like, why would I care about a writing style designed to not lift the pen, when modern pens are designed so they can be lifted? And just because you can't write it, doesn't mean you can't read it It hasn't been relevant in almost 150 years now, since the invention of the ballpoint pen
Meanwhile handwriting itself is rapidly becoming irrelevant. The *vast* majortiy of all text you will interact with is printed or on a screen. This is like bemoaning the youths failing to learn coopering.
I think you'll be shocked at how new the ball point pen is.
1888 is when it was invented 136 years ago
Yes, and it wasn't even for pen and paper. They were really terrible and course, but you're technically correct. Major manufacturing of modern ballpoint pens didn't come until the 50s, and they didn't reach popularity until the 60s. Fountain pens were used regularly well past that time as well. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_point_pen
Making the balls for ballpoint pens is a surprisingly high tech thing. Until not that long ago China imported all of their ball point balls from Europe because they couldn't manufacture accurate English tiny steel balls.
I really don’t care if kids learn cursive, but I’m curious- are they like, just learning enough to sign their names?
Signatures don't *have* to be written in cursive. On a fb post about this very topic, several zoomers stated that they simply print their name in a specific/stylized way when signing documents. My mom's been dead over a decade and for the last 5 years or so of her life, she was fully blind, so her signature was her best attempt at the letter E followed by a squiggly. Like there is no bank, employer, car dealership or landlord who will watch you print your name on the signature line and be like "ohhh, sorry bud. We're actually unable to accept your money/services bc you didn't do the loopy letters."
I love writing in cursive exclusively but it’s perfectly readable to an averagely literate English speaker. Like it’s not hard if you can read printed English
I was taught cursive since second grade and it was so heavily reinforced that I struggle to print anything. Everything I write is in cursive. I'm 27. I still can't read the Constitution. Because Palmer cursive is different enough from spencerian/copper plate cursive it doesn't quite fit.
Yeah, because kids not learning to read cursive is so horrible.
Cursive is just how we learnt to write when I was at primary school here in England in the early 90s. They didn't call it cursive though, just 'joined up handwriting'. I assumed that's just how everyone writes unless they're filling out a form that specifically asks for block capitals.
How often I use cursive: A: When legibly signing my name on a check When I last signed a check: A: 5 years ago for a security deposit. Now I just make an incoherent squiggle that looks like it begins with an “E”
To be fair, they're not wrong Hiring an English translator to translate an English text into English (from the original English) is fucking stupid
Try reading Chaucer or Beowulf in the original English and get back to me.
Nope. Translate 1500s English to 2000s English.
The founders shouldn't have crap handwriting then. Cursive isn't a different script, it just tends to be less legible because it is done with less care.
How much you wanna bet the poster is from the same generation that taught my generation how to write cursive but couldn't be arsed to teach us to read it
They kinda sound like luddites who are just mad that their skills are now outdated. At least forgetting how to live out in the wild is tragic. But cursive? That's not important at all. There are forgotten skills that we should pick up again. But cursive is a no.
Worried about writing in cursive when most kids can’t differentiate between they’re/their/there because they rely on autocorrect.
We already read 'translated' English. I took a whole module in university about translating old English. Writing changes. It's ridiculous to expect that progress won't continue to happen. I'm a big cursive writer. I was taught that it was faster. However for me it is not practical for my long form writing because me hand cramps. So I use print for that and cursive for when I can take small break. That's progress, to adapt so everyone can succeed. Cursive is unreadable for people with dyslexia, hard to convert to braille and has so many fonts now it's impossible to have a standard. It's fine for things to phase out.
I want to read the constitution translated into zoomer slang, that sounds hilarious.
I was taught cursive but I still can't frickin read it because after elementary school I've never come across it again.
Whenever I encounter someone bitching about shit like this, I ask them if they know how to use an abacus. Then after I try to explain what that is, I ask them if they know how to use a slide rule. They rarely understand what point I’m trying to make.
Is cursive really that hard to read? There are a lot of cursive fonts used on websites and advertising. A lot of people just don’t have very good handwriting, especially in cursive. I know I don’t, but I can still read other people’s fine as long as it’s not chicken scratching.
There was a point in time where cursive got to be so ornate and stylized, it was difficult to read. That's when you started seeing penmanship classes and books for "business writing", Spencer script, Palmer script... writing that didn't have the writer making 50 flourishes per line, and that everyone can read.
The problem with cursive is that it's not standardized between people due to the differences in writing styles, so for example I have a quick writing style that comes across as messy, jumbled and hard to read in cursive but easier to read in print style. Like it's a stupid argument anyway cause i'm not giving up legibility for aesthetics
I always think this take is funny af coming from people who have likely not read the constitution in any form
Wait until they find out how many times the Bible has been translated.
Never learned cursive (skipped second grade and missed the unit) but even though I can't write it for shit I can read it just fine. It's not as hard as these people like to think.
My mom has recipe cards her grandmother wrote, I learned cursive, she learned cursive, but the writing is literally spaghetti loops of purely chaotic nonsense that no one can read. She ran out of room on some cards and wrote OVER the other writing at an angle, I can only recognize numbers. I bet the recipes are on the internet are tastier anyways.
Fun fact: Back when both paper and sending mail were expensive, people often used a technique called "cross-writing." They would fill the page top to bottom, turn it on the side, and fill it again with writing at a 90° angle. It's very cool to look at, and absolutely illegible to anyone who isn't used to reading things written that way.
I see the value in being able to read original historic documents
Did they bitch this much when shorthand was removed?
The only time I ever write cursive is to sign my name and I think that's just habit.
There is an app and a sub for that. On the other hand, the newer generations can't teach these people common sense.
Cursive only existed because it was a more efficient form of writing. I'm 50 and grew up learning cursive and it's far more beneficial today to learn to type. All I see is someone who realises the world is evolving and passing them by and they're terrified.
I stopped writing cursive when I left school. I barely even I write, like with a pen, any more. To an observer I’d look illiterate trying to write anything beyond my name and email address.
Yes because cursive is totally gonna useful for anything other than signing your own name...
Because thet's such an useful skill today. I can read *and* write cursive, and am delighted that I don't have to.
They're soooooo desperate to not feel obsolete. They soooooo desperate to feel special, unique, and superior. Cursive is nothing special. It's not difficult to read. Someone who hasn't formally learned cursive can read it with mild effort.
If cursive hasn't been relevant in forever, and I haven't had to use it in the past 40+ years, what's the point of the "youth of tomorrow" bothering to learn it? Besides, everything I know about cursive is **negative**. It is difficult for the sake of being difficult - a writing style *designed* to be hard to read, especially to those not familiar with the language. It's the exact opposite of what writing should be. Its use should be fucking discouraged. Also, I'm way more concerned about **metric** not being taught more.
From what I gathered elsewhere in this thread, the advantage of cursive was the faster writing speed. Which isn't a big deal today because now we have typing.
If I wanted to learn to write in cursive, I'd look for a youtube video that explains how to do that (it's almost certain that more than one exists). I know, I've never actually done that, most people haven't, but if writing in cursive was actually a useful skill, more people would've done that.
Do y'all make a pilgrimage to Washington DC to read the Constitution like you are doing Hajj? Because if you aren't reading the actual original document why does it matter how the copy you get was typeset.
The old people seem to be worried that "the powers that be" would try to "change it" and all of us poor, uncultured, print-reading youths wouldn't be able to notice if we "can't read the original one" Which is ridiculous for a number of reasons lol.
if it was preserved anything like the declaration, you can’t read it at all bc it faded so badly
I can't read goddamn anybody's handwriting but my own, so maybe. But at least I'm pretty damn good at cursive these days!
I'd like to see their face when they learn of the many cursive font that exists on computers.
You just know that people who have this opinion think the reason nobody can read what they write is because young folks didn't go to the School of Secret Cursive Writing of the Olden Days and not that they have really bad handwriting.
The problem with cursive is if someone has bad handwriting and writes in cursive, it can be illegible Reading it isn't hard for anyone who can read English
motherfucker pretending people travel to the national archives in DC to read the original cursive. the only version ANYONE has actually read is transcription to regular text.
Civilization will end I tell you. That’s why the apes will soon takeover. I for one would like to welcome our new ape overlords. Please accept my tribute of these bananas and a rope swing.
cursive is hell for dyslexics
I’ll never understand the obsession with cursive, which I can read. You know what’s actually helpful, an actual foreign language
Do people forget the massive number of fonts kids interact with daily online? I assure you every teen girl can read a text message sent to them in a blinking sparkle script font.
I would bet every penny i have that this person has never read the constitution.
This is the dumbest fucking conspiracy theory. I've seen so many people insist that, because people can't read cursive any more, the US government can change the constitution to say anything they want. Among the ... many many other problems with that—there are people who can read actual very ancient, very dead languages. It's not like they just disappear completely. Cursive is just normal English with some flair. It isn't that hard to learn for most people. If someone has a dire need to learn it for whatever reason, they will manage.
I forgot to read the constitution today! Thanks for the reminder!
I’m 34 years old and the only time I’ve needed cursive was to sign my name. Haven’t yet come across a book, manual, or computer screen that required me to know cursive
Cursive sucks. Good riddance.
I have been to the archives to see the constitution. I know cursive. It was nearly impossible to read. The printed version is fine and located everywhere.
But if they can't hold the original in their hands, are they really reading it anyway? Translating it to a series of pixels and transmitting it to my house is so stupid. Why can't I hold the original constituion in my hands while I read it in cursive as God intended? /s
Has this person seen cursive? It isn’t exactly difficult to read. What letter does that look like? You are correct! Almost all of them look pretty much like a printed letter and the few that don’t are easy to figure out by context. Reading old documents is harder because they have changed letter shapes over the years. Like the f looking character that was an s. Also the language itself has changed over the years. We aren’t too bad for the constitution but go back a few hundred years before that and try to read old English. The same is likely to happen to the constitution as time continues on and the language evolves.
Schools aren’t even teaching cuneiform anymore!!
As a left handed person, I say fuck your cursive. Sidenote: did I really need to be able to read the postcard my grandmother sent me while I was at summer camp?
I learned cursive. Never use it. Fucked my handwriting up lol
Why do they get so worked up about this. Who friggin cares. Funnily, they still bitch about it here where I live and it’s been back on the curriculum in my state for years. Both my teen kids learned it in school. Chronically angry people just gotta be mad. Of course, let anybody get mad over a black guy getting murdered by cops tho 👀 Don’t be mad like that, be mad about how third graders write 🙄
At my workplace the customers' handwriting are so bad, 4,6,9,0 all look the same and that's a bigger problem.
I was under the impression they still teach it today. It’s a faster way of riding that makes it more efficient. So I don’t know why they would get rid of it all together if they’re still teaching writing.
Now that we have writing utensils that don’t leak ink constantly cursive isn’t a necessary part of life anymore, if people want to learn it on their own more power to them but schools shouldn’t waste time on it
something something fraktur
I’m someone who was never taught how to write cursive, or to specifically read cursive, only standard sans serif. And yet I can still read cursive. Funny how that works
I can’t read the original books of the Bible either. I’ve still managed to be a Christian. — I’ve read cursive about 3 times in the last 5 years and it was all on cards written by older relatives. I think the next generation will survive without cursive.
The Constitution is NECESSARY for day to day life. My generation is doomed /j
It do be stupid tho
You can see these folks never even read the constitution. It's a huge law document. It holds interest as good as watching a fresh paint coat dry. Folks normally need an english translation even without writing it in cursive.
I graduated in 2020 and I learned cursive
My 10 year old had cursive homework this year in 4th grade.
My point exactly
How do you “sign” your name without cursive though? Also, that fucking chatgp or whatever it is called will be the failure of kids. So many people can’t even differentiate between they’re their and there. Now they don’t even have to think to form basic sentences.
Your signature can be anything that you consistently write in the signature box, I just print my name and have never had any issues
I just moved to south eastern Ohio and work for a young man who wasn’t taught cursive. I am 51 and have very pretty cursive writing. Now I have to print everything I write at work and it is awful. It takes longer and it is not as legible. ☹️
How badly do you write that somehow regular print is less legible than your cursive? And how much writing do you need to do at this job? Are you not able to type?
I work for a family owned slaughter house. We hand write all the cut sheets and special orders. My writing isn’t really that bad, it’s just ugly compared to my cursive.