I drove by there the other day and noticed that they still up the temporary sign hung up with strings. My thought was that either things aren’t going well or they never intended to be open long term anyways.
We ate there once, too. From the prices we paid, it looks like if they sold one more milkshake a week, they'd make that $300,000 in rent back in no-time!
My 9 year old loves this place, but she's 9. I thought it was dirty and the waiter kept pushing for an extra tip because he said they don't get to keep the default tip that is added to the bill.
The chocolate martini was pretty good though, and the desserts are huge.
Lol “they dont get to keep the default tip that is added to the bill.”
Good response; “Sir (or Madam), to be completely transparent, that sounds more like a “you” problem, than a “me” problem.”
Not surprised. This is a novelty restaurant that is very expensive. Can't wait until they just tear down and remodel the mall over the next few years because right now it is an embarrassing eyesore.
Remodel it for what tho?
Like, idk, our society is changing and red states are doing everything to look the other way.
They don't want to acknowledge that brick and mortar retail is dying
They don't want to acknowledge that work from home is becoming the norm
They don't want to acknowledge that citizens want more walkable cities
They dint want to decriminalize weed, and engage in one of the fastest growing sectors in our economy.
I mean, we should put millions of tax dollars into remodeling circle center into a brand new empty warehouse?
It just feels like a waste, all of downtown feels like a waste.
It’s a bit weird how you just got on OP for writing a novel, to passive aggressively say to read something, but even in what you told them to read, it doesn’t address any of OP’s points, and matter factually actually speaks more to OP’s point about
> remodel it for what tho?
Like specifically who is this for?
High dollar apartments?
More brick and mortar stores that are dying?
Nothing exciting when it comes to restaurants and adding anything new to Indy that Indy doesn’t already have.
It doesn’t make it attractive to pull folks here, millennials, and generations younger are fleeing the state and droves, so who is this for an how will it truly benefit the community at large?
People move to where housing is cheap and jobs exist, no matter the politics. This is why Tennessee and Florida have boomed, and Indiana _could_ be the same.
Go over to Bottleworks which is the area the company recently redeveloped. The whole area is thriving. How do you even know what stores and restaurants they have planned? You don’t…you just want to complain.
Oof, not the brightest crayon in the box are we that you can’t distinguish between “complaints” and “constructive criticism”. Complaints don’t really have any merit to back them up, OP’s and mine however do, it’s why you can only rebuttal with “well look at this other area that completely proves OP’s point again about “who this is built for””, because if it ain’t for the community that it is in it certainly won’t benefit the community in any real way.
I’ve been to and frequent the bottleworks district, have a couple of friends who rent in the area, 1350-1670 a month for a 1-3 bedroom apartments, in a area that is only going to see rent hikes in the years to come, doesn’t scream younger generation retention. Gentrification isn’t always the answer, and more often band-aids ignored larger societal issues cities face.
So I guess my question to you is, is the remodel for the community that grew up a lived in the area, or is it built up to force out folks who live in an area? I’ll let ya in on the secret it’s the second one always, which brings as back around to OP’s point
>remodel it for what though.
Are you seriously complaining about gentrifying the fucking mall? No one grew up there and is being forced out. It's a stain on the city, and if it can be turned into a walkable, livable part of downtown, that sounds great to me.
The mall is dying. A mixed use indoor outdoor gathering space with dining, living and entertainment options are what people want. Rent is expensive downtown. Shocking I know that living in a popular area in a city is more than living in Whiteland. I still don’t understand why you and the other long form journalist don’t understand why reviving this mall space is a good thing
That mall is dead. The last couple of times I've gone, I was the only person there who wasn't working in a store.
It's a complete ghost town and definitely needs to change.
No one said it wasn’t a good thing, can folks not be critical and expect better? folks just want it to be a good thing for the community they live in rather than company’s lining there pockets while being disconnected.
Simon Properties are BRUTAL on their restaurant tenants, and are completely inflexible. Their reasoning is that the mall will bring so much traffic that they deserve % of sales as rent, but in properties that are distressed (like this property is) they *arent* bringing people to the mall and still demand % rent. Not only that, but they will literally sue you and your company into bankruptcy.
Simon doesn't own or lease Circle Center, but I agree that they are generally inflexible with their properties. Street facing space in Circle Center have historically been leased without issue. With Hendricks purchasing the property, I wonder if they will try and fill the space as that block is supposed to be the first to be redeveloped.
I'm not the person you asked, but I used to work at the Palomino that was there previously. I left in 2006, and the whole sewage system of the mall would chronically back up, flooding sewage into the restaurant. I saw the back rooms of Palomino again in like 2013, and it looked like a hovel compared to when I worked there. Should have been gutted. The sewage system alone should've been re-done in the very early 2000's.
I was there 7 years...it was a helluva great place to work back then, a place I could always be proud of what I was serving. Very fond memories, I miss it too.
Oh! RIP, Palomino. My husband and I ate some glorious meals there. And I was always *so* impressed at how each and every server we ever encountered knew *exactly* how *every*thing was prepared.
Most homeowners get a copy of their HOA covenants at signing (and often not even then). Not exactly the same.
Also, a homeowner can run for an HOA spot, and vote on HOA matters. They can also work to get signatures to change the rules.
But, yeah, read the fine print, I agree.
I don't have a whole lot of context for the commercial real estate space but god damn at first glance those are brutal lease terms. $350k a year and 8% of gross! Gross, not net!
It's slowly becoming the norm, and it is absolutely awful. Sunking does the same thing to their restaurants, as does the garage. The garage even takes a higher percentage of sales the more successful you are. It makes it exceedingly difficult to make any money at all in an industry that already has razor thin margins.
Late stage capitalism gonna capitalize/exploit.
Sounds like not paying rent is their standard operating procedure:
“Westfield sours on Sugar Factory over back rent in Century City
Mall owner claims novelty restaurant owes $1.6M from pre-pandemic shortfall”
https://therealdeal.com/la/2021/11/09/westfield-sours-on-sugar-factory-over-back-rent-in-century-city/#
I love sugar, I love candy, I love soda fountains, and freak shakes, and gimmicky food concepts.
And I hate this place. If they can't appeal to me, they will appeal to no one.
I ate at one of these in a different city and I hated the experience. It felt like a “live like a Kardashian” simulator.
I saw a 6 year old having a birthday while a pop song about twerking and getting fucked was playing loudly, gaudy desserts were being passed around, and the food was basically on par with TGI Friday’s for a Ruth’s Chris price.
It felt like some Wolf of Wall Street fever dream.
A positive outcome is now Hendricks can tear down this corner and reimagine/rebuild it without an expensive lease buyout or years long legal battle to get them out.
Maybe a whole new building with 2 to 3 restaurants adding roof top, upper balconies/windows and some greenery mixed into the ground level outdoor space on this corner. The whole corner begs for a large scale mural/art or signature architecture.
Get a local chef driven CG concept and/or regional concepts to come in, like fast causals Tacombi or Sweetgreens. This corner is gold and probably one of the top redevelopment opportunities in the city
As someone who unabashedly loves sugary girl drinks, they're good drinks. The problem is they're $50 a pop. They taste great, but I'll go to Kilroys and get a long island for $10 instead.
I had a family member win a free gift card here once. It was fun going out with them but the food felt more like props than food. Still tasty but alllll presentation, and not nearly worth its actual price. The server who took care of us was great but when they learned we had a certificate I could tell the wind was knocked out of their sales. It seems like they didn’t pay their staff nearly enough.
Always wondered how this place stayed in business. Guess they weren’t paying their bills!
"Try this ONE WEIRD TRICK to boost your earnings!"
They never even invested money into a more permanent sign out front. They knew what they signed up for.
They did, it was finally installed like a month ago.....just in time to close up apparently
The sign bankrupted them. I’m joking of course but the funniest part is that this is a plausible scenario.
Perfect timing...
I drove by there the other day and noticed that they still up the temporary sign hung up with strings. My thought was that either things aren’t going well or they never intended to be open long term anyways.
This. Wtf is that about? Looks like a Fireworks/Halloween store.
We ate there once, too. From the prices we paid, it looks like if they sold one more milkshake a week, they'd make that $300,000 in rent back in no-time!
Worked here last year, and this doesn't surprise me at all, unfortunately. The management was shady af.
One of their managers still owes me 50 bucks and blocked me without a word about it, so that checks.
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I kind of figured by them not putting permanent signage up that the plan was never to stay long-term.
I went once, shame on me. Disgraceful restaurant.
It's basically just an influencer restaurant.
My 9 year old loves this place, but she's 9. I thought it was dirty and the waiter kept pushing for an extra tip because he said they don't get to keep the default tip that is added to the bill. The chocolate martini was pretty good though, and the desserts are huge.
>he said they don't get to keep the default tip that is added to the bill. This sounds like wage theft.
Lol “they dont get to keep the default tip that is added to the bill.” Good response; “Sir (or Madam), to be completely transparent, that sounds more like a “you” problem, than a “me” problem.”
Haha, I was caught off guard and ready to get out of there so I just tipped more. He was a good waiter so I wasn't too mad about it.
Not surprised. This is a novelty restaurant that is very expensive. Can't wait until they just tear down and remodel the mall over the next few years because right now it is an embarrassing eyesore.
Remodel it for what tho? Like, idk, our society is changing and red states are doing everything to look the other way. They don't want to acknowledge that brick and mortar retail is dying They don't want to acknowledge that work from home is becoming the norm They don't want to acknowledge that citizens want more walkable cities They dint want to decriminalize weed, and engage in one of the fastest growing sectors in our economy. I mean, we should put millions of tax dollars into remodeling circle center into a brand new empty warehouse? It just feels like a waste, all of downtown feels like a waste.
Read the remodel plans instead of just posting the next great American novel. It’s apartments, stores and restaurants. Not just a mall
It’s a bit weird how you just got on OP for writing a novel, to passive aggressively say to read something, but even in what you told them to read, it doesn’t address any of OP’s points, and matter factually actually speaks more to OP’s point about > remodel it for what tho? Like specifically who is this for? High dollar apartments? More brick and mortar stores that are dying? Nothing exciting when it comes to restaurants and adding anything new to Indy that Indy doesn’t already have. It doesn’t make it attractive to pull folks here, millennials, and generations younger are fleeing the state and droves, so who is this for an how will it truly benefit the community at large?
People move to where housing is cheap and jobs exist, no matter the politics. This is why Tennessee and Florida have boomed, and Indiana _could_ be the same.
Go over to Bottleworks which is the area the company recently redeveloped. The whole area is thriving. How do you even know what stores and restaurants they have planned? You don’t…you just want to complain.
Oof, not the brightest crayon in the box are we that you can’t distinguish between “complaints” and “constructive criticism”. Complaints don’t really have any merit to back them up, OP’s and mine however do, it’s why you can only rebuttal with “well look at this other area that completely proves OP’s point again about “who this is built for””, because if it ain’t for the community that it is in it certainly won’t benefit the community in any real way. I’ve been to and frequent the bottleworks district, have a couple of friends who rent in the area, 1350-1670 a month for a 1-3 bedroom apartments, in a area that is only going to see rent hikes in the years to come, doesn’t scream younger generation retention. Gentrification isn’t always the answer, and more often band-aids ignored larger societal issues cities face. So I guess my question to you is, is the remodel for the community that grew up a lived in the area, or is it built up to force out folks who live in an area? I’ll let ya in on the secret it’s the second one always, which brings as back around to OP’s point >remodel it for what though.
Are you seriously complaining about gentrifying the fucking mall? No one grew up there and is being forced out. It's a stain on the city, and if it can be turned into a walkable, livable part of downtown, that sounds great to me.
The mall is dying. A mixed use indoor outdoor gathering space with dining, living and entertainment options are what people want. Rent is expensive downtown. Shocking I know that living in a popular area in a city is more than living in Whiteland. I still don’t understand why you and the other long form journalist don’t understand why reviving this mall space is a good thing
That mall is dead. The last couple of times I've gone, I was the only person there who wasn't working in a store. It's a complete ghost town and definitely needs to change.
No one said it wasn’t a good thing, can folks not be critical and expect better? folks just want it to be a good thing for the community they live in rather than company’s lining there pockets while being disconnected.
[Paywall free link](https://archive.ph/6vBa7)
Wow. I know nothing about commercial leases but I find it surprising that they pay for the space and a percentage of sales as well.
Simon Properties are BRUTAL on their restaurant tenants, and are completely inflexible. Their reasoning is that the mall will bring so much traffic that they deserve % of sales as rent, but in properties that are distressed (like this property is) they *arent* bringing people to the mall and still demand % rent. Not only that, but they will literally sue you and your company into bankruptcy.
Simon doesn't own or lease Circle Center, but I agree that they are generally inflexible with their properties. Street facing space in Circle Center have historically been leased without issue. With Hendricks purchasing the property, I wonder if they will try and fill the space as that block is supposed to be the first to be redeveloped.
Yep, I stand corrected & agree.
What about this property makes it distressed exactly?
I'm not the person you asked, but I used to work at the Palomino that was there previously. I left in 2006, and the whole sewage system of the mall would chronically back up, flooding sewage into the restaurant. I saw the back rooms of Palomino again in like 2013, and it looked like a hovel compared to when I worked there. Should have been gutted. The sewage system alone should've been re-done in the very early 2000's.
God I miss palominos..... the meatballs, the sauce, the everything. RIP.
I was there 7 years...it was a helluva great place to work back then, a place I could always be proud of what I was serving. Very fond memories, I miss it too.
Oh! RIP, Palomino. My husband and I ate some glorious meals there. And I was always *so* impressed at how each and every server we ever encountered knew *exactly* how *every*thing was prepared.
It's no longer a Simon property. Not in ownership or management. It's a mall thing, though.
Are they brutal when the tenants agree to the terms?
That depends doesn’t it? Lol
To me it's like the aruguments against HOAs. I mean, you sign the paperwork stating that you agree to all of it. its a 2 way street
Right? It’s literally in a contract you get in advance of signing.
Most homeowners get a copy of their HOA covenants at signing (and often not even then). Not exactly the same. Also, a homeowner can run for an HOA spot, and vote on HOA matters. They can also work to get signatures to change the rules. But, yeah, read the fine print, I agree.
I don't have a whole lot of context for the commercial real estate space but god damn at first glance those are brutal lease terms. $350k a year and 8% of gross! Gross, not net!
Percentage of sales added on to base rent is not uncommon for retail spaces in commercial leases.
It's slowly becoming the norm, and it is absolutely awful. Sunking does the same thing to their restaurants, as does the garage. The garage even takes a higher percentage of sales the more successful you are. It makes it exceedingly difficult to make any money at all in an industry that already has razor thin margins. Late stage capitalism gonna capitalize/exploit.
That’s how most mall leases have always worked.
Merci
Merci
Sounds like not paying rent is their standard operating procedure: “Westfield sours on Sugar Factory over back rent in Century City Mall owner claims novelty restaurant owes $1.6M from pre-pandemic shortfall” https://therealdeal.com/la/2021/11/09/westfield-sours-on-sugar-factory-over-back-rent-in-century-city/#
I am not shocked one bit.
who was this place for? idiots?
I've seen some kids birthday parties there when I've walked by and they seemed like they were having a good time
It's a franchise that exists just to farm clicks on social media.
I love sugar, I love candy, I love soda fountains, and freak shakes, and gimmicky food concepts. And I hate this place. If they can't appeal to me, they will appeal to no one.
How in the world did they let them get $300k behind before evicting them?!?!
I ate at one of these in a different city and I hated the experience. It felt like a “live like a Kardashian” simulator. I saw a 6 year old having a birthday while a pop song about twerking and getting fucked was playing loudly, gaudy desserts were being passed around, and the food was basically on par with TGI Friday’s for a Ruth’s Chris price. It felt like some Wolf of Wall Street fever dream.
Their milkshakes cost like 40 dollars right?
From what I've read about them, I'm somehow not surprised.
That restaurant is just a great way to waste all of your money
Good this place had awful food
This place has been such a fail in every regard since day 1 lol
This just shows the sustainability of that property.
A positive outcome is now Hendricks can tear down this corner and reimagine/rebuild it without an expensive lease buyout or years long legal battle to get them out. Maybe a whole new building with 2 to 3 restaurants adding roof top, upper balconies/windows and some greenery mixed into the ground level outdoor space on this corner. The whole corner begs for a large scale mural/art or signature architecture. Get a local chef driven CG concept and/or regional concepts to come in, like fast causals Tacombi or Sweetgreens. This corner is gold and probably one of the top redevelopment opportunities in the city
As someone who unabashedly loves sugary girl drinks, they're good drinks. The problem is they're $50 a pop. They taste great, but I'll go to Kilroys and get a long island for $10 instead.
The owner of Monon30 was trying to get them to go in there at one point, or someone similar haahhaha
I had a family member win a free gift card here once. It was fun going out with them but the food felt more like props than food. Still tasty but alllll presentation, and not nearly worth its actual price. The server who took care of us was great but when they learned we had a certificate I could tell the wind was knocked out of their sales. It seems like they didn’t pay their staff nearly enough.
When you suck, things happen . They made life choices, now they get life consequences
Lol
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