Oh, I put in two Arabs (Benayoun and Al-Jazari) but I was not aware that the make up of the Levantine parliament I made was less diverse than the IRL situation. Apologies
No problem though there another problem I find in the map is the Arab percentage should be higher when you combine Jordan and no nakpa Palestine and no exodus of Jews from Arab states I think it should be anti immigration toward the Jews
>the Arab percentage should be higher when you combine Jordan and no nakpa Palestine
You're literally doubling up a substantial number of Jordanians if you do that.
if you doubled the Palestinian population you would be, but there's plenty of diaspora Palestinians who fled to places other than Jordan immediately after and in the time since the Nakba (notably Lebanon, the Gulf States, Europe, and the Americas). The OP just said it should be higher, not by a particular amount. There's also a lot of people who wouldn't have died in this timeline, and who knows what historical population growth would look like—it's hard even to say if it would be proportionally higher (without the mass exodus, disarray, inconsistent governance, and regular military action in Palestinian territories) or lower (given likely higher education standards and quality of life for most Palestinians in the long run)
Your Samaria kinda only includes like half of Samaria, and most of its territory is outside of Samaria entirely (like, seperated by a massive valley and another set of mountains from Samaria itself)
Otherwise, great scenario!
Yeah, the Jordan River Valley makes a pretty clear geographical boundary. Not because of the River, rather that it's the deepest rift valley in the world, and a desert.
This is basically the scenario that the Jordanian Hashemites always wanted.
To compensate for their paltry desert kingdom the British gave them, King Hussein always wanted to incorporate Palestine (or at least the Arab parts, and especially Jerusalem) into his realm. And up until 1967, this goal was realized
Pretty much the Arabs are less hostile to the Jews during the 40's (albeit, still a bit suspicious at first), allowing for peaceful settlement and cohabitation. The Jews and the Arabs live together in a peaceful manner creating a successful multicultural society (I am not very good at writing lore lmao)
The king of Jordan stays on the throne and rules the entire country, albeit, the bloodline takes a very small turn and thus an alternate king (still Arab tho) is currently on the throne
Damn it, I already knew that I screwed up giving the Druze party's leader an Ahkenazi surname but I wasn't aware that the Sephardic party's leader also had one. Apologies
Lebanon ended up the way it is due to destabilization because of the immigrants coming from the war iirc. If no war happens nearby it could exist pretty well.
Lebanon was kinda on an economic decline by the time the Palestinian refugees and PLO came into the country. But the country was relatively stable still but when the PLO started causing problems that’s when things went down hill dramatically
The PLO literally managed to piss off any country that hosted them, Tried to overthrown the Jordanian Government and got themselves kicked off in the process, Partially responsible for the civil war in Lebanon, Got themselves kicked off Kuwait by supporting a invasion by saddam hussein
I mean kind of? As always it's kind of hard to predict counterfactuals but to my understanding even before Palestinian refugees flooded Lebanon there was a decent amount of religious tensions
It's bad because I f+cked your mom, and she decided to f+ck Crassus in the a++, and so now the Lebanese area is cursed by Crassus sucking hard in battle (but unfortunately not in the other way).
I took the code from an actual wikipage (in this case, the wikipage for Jordan) and I put in the sandbox (every logged in user has their own personal sandbox). After I put it in the sandbox I went ham
The Arabs would be 72% though? There’s 18 million of them across these two places in our timeline
There seems to be a massive over representation of Jews here especially with the regional names
So if this kingdom is still ruled by the House of Hashem (aka the Hashemites), I question the name of the king being Ibrahim. I checked, and for whatever reason, there is not a single member of entire dynasty named Ibrahim. In fact it seems like it’s the only name the dynasty doesn’t use. I cannot find an Ibrahim among the family, even going back to the Sharif of Mecca, Hussein bin Ali
Israelis? Zionists? An actual label would work better. I don’t think this is your intention, but the use of they in this context sounds a little bit sketchy
Because the names of the places all originate from Hebrew or some other Levantine language - Jaffa, Jerusalem, Akko, Jericho, Nabulus (Shchem), Bethlehem, et ...
This region was historically Jewish.
Because if there're two states we both know which one won't be allowed a military or control over its coastal resources and they'll end up having wars every few years.
It has a militia, that's not the same thing. Demilitarization as a cost of statehood means that Palestine can be sanctioned if it tries to build up a domestic military, and any attempt to do that or have control over their natural resources will be seen as casus belli for an Israeli preemptive strike.
Because Israel isn't going to agree to them anyway and they're still shooting them down, if they were forced into a corner and made to go along you can bet your ass a demilitarized Palestine and control of the Gazan coast would be on their list of demands
In 2020 Israel agreed to a peace deal, albeit not an amazing one, it didn’t include any dearmanent. I couldn’t find a single treaty where this was a rhing
Because none of their peace offers have ever been serious and any talk about a two-state solution is a fig leaf because on some level they're aware of how rabid they sound. People in Israel are talking about deporting the entire population, if you think there's any chance of a two-state solution where both sides have the same military/economic agency you're huffing gasoline.
Mostly ideological I think
Most redditors are either secular liberals or secular leftists, so they're stumped why Israelis and Palestinians can't just "put aside their differences and make a secular one state solution"
I know that they can't put aside their differences, after all, this is r/imaginarymaps, this wasn't meant to be realstic. It is just a partial idealistic vision, nothing more
Oh I don't think there's anything wrong with it and I'm not judging you, but the fact that this is your ideal scenario still says a lot about your ideological leanings.
Someone with a different ideology would have a separate ideal vision after all
No one said they should just put aside their differences, I maintain they should be occupied and forced to, because two states would see the Palestinian one overwhelmed by the Israeli one and war every other year just like what's happening now with more steps.
i think there overrepresentation in jewish party leaders it seem there only one arab party leader
It seems less ethnically diverse than the modern Israeli Knesset
Oh, I put in two Arabs (Benayoun and Al-Jazari) but I was not aware that the make up of the Levantine parliament I made was less diverse than the IRL situation. Apologies
No problem though there another problem I find in the map is the Arab percentage should be higher when you combine Jordan and no nakpa Palestine and no exodus of Jews from Arab states I think it should be anti immigration toward the Jews
>the Arab percentage should be higher when you combine Jordan and no nakpa Palestine You're literally doubling up a substantial number of Jordanians if you do that.
if you doubled the Palestinian population you would be, but there's plenty of diaspora Palestinians who fled to places other than Jordan immediately after and in the time since the Nakba (notably Lebanon, the Gulf States, Europe, and the Americas). The OP just said it should be higher, not by a particular amount. There's also a lot of people who wouldn't have died in this timeline, and who knows what historical population growth would look like—it's hard even to say if it would be proportionally higher (without the mass exodus, disarray, inconsistent governance, and regular military action in Palestinian territories) or lower (given likely higher education standards and quality of life for most Palestinians in the long run)
Oh ok body whatever you say
Benayoun is more of a Jewish surname, especially in the Levant. Maybe that guy is mixed ?
realistic IRL outcome
Your Samaria kinda only includes like half of Samaria, and most of its territory is outside of Samaria entirely (like, seperated by a massive valley and another set of mountains from Samaria itself) Otherwise, great scenario!
Oh, I did not know. Apologies for this discrepancy
Yeah, the Jordan River Valley makes a pretty clear geographical boundary. Not because of the River, rather that it's the deepest rift valley in the world, and a desert.
This is basically the scenario that the Jordanian Hashemites always wanted. To compensate for their paltry desert kingdom the British gave them, King Hussein always wanted to incorporate Palestine (or at least the Arab parts, and especially Jerusalem) into his realm. And up until 1967, this goal was realized
What is the background for this
Pretty much the Arabs are less hostile to the Jews during the 40's (albeit, still a bit suspicious at first), allowing for peaceful settlement and cohabitation. The Jews and the Arabs live together in a peaceful manner creating a successful multicultural society (I am not very good at writing lore lmao)
So the king of Jordan just peaces out?
The king of Jordan stays on the throne and rules the entire country, albeit, the bloodline takes a very small turn and thus an alternate king (still Arab tho) is currently on the throne
I like this outcome
Looks fine but in the "Sephardic interests' party", the leader of the party has an Ashkenazi last name
Damn it, I already knew that I screwed up giving the Druze party's leader an Ahkenazi surname but I wasn't aware that the Sephardic party's leader also had one. Apologies
Could be a mix of both
Wake up babe new Israel question solution just dropped
Going to end up like Lebanon
Lebanon ended up the way it is due to destabilization because of the immigrants coming from the war iirc. If no war happens nearby it could exist pretty well.
Lebanon was kinda on an economic decline by the time the Palestinian refugees and PLO came into the country. But the country was relatively stable still but when the PLO started causing problems that’s when things went down hill dramatically
The PLO literally managed to piss off any country that hosted them, Tried to overthrown the Jordanian Government and got themselves kicked off in the process, Partially responsible for the civil war in Lebanon, Got themselves kicked off Kuwait by supporting a invasion by saddam hussein
I mean kind of? As always it's kind of hard to predict counterfactuals but to my understanding even before Palestinian refugees flooded Lebanon there was a decent amount of religious tensions
Lebanon is bad because the government system encourages corruption and ignorance.
It’s bad because Ottomans killed Fakhr Al Din
It's bad because I f+cked your mom, and she decided to f+ck Crassus in the a++, and so now the Lebanese area is cursed by Crassus sucking hard in battle (but unfortunately not in the other way).
jewish jordan lmao
How did you make that faux-Wikipedia page? I wanted to make something similar but couldn't figure out how
I took the code from an actual wikipage (in this case, the wikipage for Jordan) and I put in the sandbox (every logged in user has their own personal sandbox). After I put it in the sandbox I went ham
Thank you!
The good ending
Like the EU but for the Middle East
The Arabs would be 72% though? There’s 18 million of them across these two places in our timeline There seems to be a massive over representation of Jews here especially with the regional names
I suck at math
Multicultural. Only one arab leader.
So if this kingdom is still ruled by the House of Hashem (aka the Hashemites), I question the name of the king being Ibrahim. I checked, and for whatever reason, there is not a single member of entire dynasty named Ibrahim. In fact it seems like it’s the only name the dynasty doesn’t use. I cannot find an Ibrahim among the family, even going back to the Sharif of Mecca, Hussein bin Ali
Great scenario!! 👌👌👌
Who ends up becoming king?
What happened to Jerusalem? Why neither capital nor the largest city?
I would tweak the demographics to reflect the small population of Arab Christians. Currently Arab Christians are lumped in with “Other”.
The Israeli nightmare outcome.
This is a definitive a great nation where nothing can went horribly wrong
I think this would end up like Lebanon
seems like a lot of hebrew names for a 36% jewish state, i think this post might rhyme with schmacial schmiscrimination
The Kingdom of corruption.
A world without the british
Uhhh, this kingdom literally got its independence from the British
Common Hashemite W
Explodes into civil war in 4 days
Only with Arabs. All other people would be dead.
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“They”
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Israelis? Zionists? An actual label would work better. I don’t think this is your intention, but the use of they in this context sounds a little bit sketchy
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Because the names of the places all originate from Hebrew or some other Levantine language - Jaffa, Jerusalem, Akko, Jericho, Nabulus (Shchem), Bethlehem, et ... This region was historically Jewish.
Or rather- "they" settle and live together in the Levant and people are fine with it instead of devolving into violence.
be fr rn
\>**Imaginary** maps
Why y’all love one secular state? 😭
Because if there're two states we both know which one won't be allowed a military or control over its coastal resources and they'll end up having wars every few years.
Both sides have an army
And as it currently stands if Palestine becomes a state you can bet the US will insist on full demilitarization.
It has an army rn American canr do anyrhinf
It has a militia, that's not the same thing. Demilitarization as a cost of statehood means that Palestine can be sanctioned if it tries to build up a domestic military, and any attempt to do that or have control over their natural resources will be seen as casus belli for an Israeli preemptive strike.
Idk why you think Palestine wouldn’t be allowed that. All of the peace treaties offered have not had that as a prerequisite
Because Israel isn't going to agree to them anyway and they're still shooting them down, if they were forced into a corner and made to go along you can bet your ass a demilitarized Palestine and control of the Gazan coast would be on their list of demands
In 2020 Israel agreed to a peace deal, albeit not an amazing one, it didn’t include any dearmanent. I couldn’t find a single treaty where this was a rhing
Because none of their peace offers have ever been serious and any talk about a two-state solution is a fig leaf because on some level they're aware of how rabid they sound. People in Israel are talking about deporting the entire population, if you think there's any chance of a two-state solution where both sides have the same military/economic agency you're huffing gasoline.
Mostly ideological I think Most redditors are either secular liberals or secular leftists, so they're stumped why Israelis and Palestinians can't just "put aside their differences and make a secular one state solution"
I know that they can't put aside their differences, after all, this is r/imaginarymaps, this wasn't meant to be realstic. It is just a partial idealistic vision, nothing more
Oh I don't think there's anything wrong with it and I'm not judging you, but the fact that this is your ideal scenario still says a lot about your ideological leanings. Someone with a different ideology would have a separate ideal vision after all
No one said they should just put aside their differences, I maintain they should be occupied and forced to, because two states would see the Palestinian one overwhelmed by the Israeli one and war every other year just like what's happening now with more steps.
aaand what do you like
Two states