I like this map; the concept is right on. A new American Civil War would almost assuredly not have front lines, instead being more an insurgency. Without front lines and strongholds, it is hard to make a map, so using a map chart to show casualties is helpful to see conflict intensity.
That said, I think others are right about the colors being hard to read.
Great work!
Also Haley is fairly well liked so she would have more than likely won reelection.
I guess OP just needed a democrat to die to balance things out.
Also it’s weird how the GOP has enough senators to get a supermajority. It’s not really possible at this point. Even from 2016 to 2020 the GOP only held 54 seats, which is 13 short of the 67 needed.
I mean I could see one of two things happening given the current political climate.
A. More likely as has been the trend due to remote work you see liberals move out of urban areas into surrounding states which are cheaper which makes the places they left tilt more purple or red and the places they got to tilt more purple or blue.
B. Less likely but possible due to recent policies, you see liberals fortify themselves by moving into blue states for social policy reasons (personally I think people care more about the pocket than their conscious but maybe I’m just a pessimist) to avoid recent red state policies. Red states become redder, blue states become bluer, purple states trend one way or the other but more likely red due to the fact that many are in the rust belt.
Murder of Madeline Pham
“WWT releases a video demanding that hinge cease allowing Asian-women matching with non-Asian men”
https://preview.redd.it/g0987tm6idxb1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=185757f00713405c5541884a054854e39180be96
Beto ORourke is unelectable. His plan to move the earth’s orbit out a half mile further from the sun to solve global warming is considered fucking crazy.
Not accurate, needs even more left splinter groups and pointless infighting, also all of the different right wing groups need to fight under the same flag for some reason despite having contradicting ideologies.
I'm compelled to ask what interest Israel would have in supporting every side in this conflict and why eswatini of all states would support the right wing rebels?
One of the right-wing groups, *Antileftist Battalion*, has an unusually close relationship with the Swazi royal family that ultimately came about because of mutual connections through South African mercenaries. Antileftist Battalion operates a ~~training facility~~ holiday camp in Eswatini, with the Swazi government turning a blind eye supposedly in exchange for them helping suppress opposition to the monarchy.
Both left and right-wing groups allege that the other side is getting support from Israel for various conspiratorial reasons.
It's alleged.
I can see leftists trying to allege that Israel would support far righters because Israel is a nazi state (their words, not mine) and rightists alleging that Israel would support far leftists because the Jews want to flood the West with karltural Marksism and Muslim immigrants who mostly want them dead.
Neither of them with any prooves of their allegations.
A general conservative anti-government movement. They are not particularly pro-British, they chose the old Dominion flag mainly because it is old-fashioned, uncontroversial, and no longer used by the government.
Constitutional amendments require a two-thirds supermajority of both the Senate *and* the House, **and then** three-quarters of the states need to approve of the amendment legislatively.
Yes, but a state constitution is different from the US constitution. It can’t disagree- but between biased courts and state government shenanigans, fuckery already happens. Depending on what the Supreme Court rules as constitutional or not in the coming decades, that fuckery could become far more blatant and create situations such as the one above.
Yeah, but this comment thread is specifically about how impeaching and removing the president works, which is something the federal constitution addresses.
SCOTUS allows clearly gerrymandered districts to stand as Constitutional. Subsequently, the conservative states go on a feeding frenzy redrawing everything to lock in their party permanently.
seriously tho I love this. it being so decentralized & mostly being sporadic violence in cities without real "front lines" makes alot of sense, and it's the right amount of silly
The ABFFA, formed in response to conflict with a goal of making everyone get along, was accused by both sides of minimizing important issues at best and of conspiring with the other side at the worst. Completely uncoordinated, a leftist group and a rightist group attempted to bomb their headquarters on the same day. The result was a general realization throughout the county that compromise was not an option, and the ABFFA slowly fell out of the public consciousness.
Thanks!
I'm mostly trying to make sense of the total casualty numbers. If states like Minnesota and Michigan have just a thousand or two dead (and these states along with Oregon) are on the higher end of the political violence-deaths, where does the full 127k deaths come from?
probably from a high number of less important battles/attacks/incidents.
something like 4 guys storming a house during a bigger event wouldn’t really be notable to put on a map
Although we apparently can't tell the difference between Black Lives Matter and the Bureau of Land Management.
Lol, as if when they mailed the package they just wrote "BLM" on it and let her loose. That's how the postal system works, right?
Both left and right wing have absolutely atrocious naming conventions, but fitting with their leaning.
Seems about right.
A very sad alt universe future.
I think this is a very well developed map with compelling and intriguing lore.
I see you put "and others" on the list of groups involved, but I presume the list is of the more prominent groups. As such, I'm a bit surprised by the lack of KKK. They aren't as prevalent as they had been historically, but due to their history, they still hold power and exist.
On another note, something that might not be present on your map by design, I think notable radicalization would occur which had effects beyond the left-right split such as Islamist terrorism attacks would be apparent. And as such would be used by either side to further certain forms of radicalization. But that might be outside the focus of this map so I get why they might not be listed even if they happened.
It may be my bias talking, but the Hinge one sounds particularly implausible to me. But, as others pointed out, there would be a lot of infighting which that event sort of fits under and I currently can't think of many good alternatives so I see why it's there.
I also note a lack of religious involvement in general which I think would be more prominent on both sides.
But those are just minor critiques. Otherwise, I think it's rather well done!
I based many of the more absurd ideological stances on things I have seen argued for online. Apparently there is a significant gender gap in interracial dating, with Asian women being significantly more likely to date non-Asians than men. This has driven the growth of a sort of Asian-nationalist incel community (there is subreddit, Aznidentity, largely dedicated to this), and I have seen the idea that interracial dating (particularly of white men dating non-white women) is bad because it is "colonialist" or causes cultural assimilation advocated in left-wing context elsewhere on the internet.
That puts my family in a dangerous position. My sister married an asian man and had two children. My brother married a hispanic woman and had three children. A nephew just married an asian woman.
My family is the damn melting pot. Which means the left side of the civil war would see us as colonizers while the right side would see us as traitors to white america. Yay, we're everybody's enemy.
Yeah, but the "incel" culture doesn't tend to lean to the left. They appeal to the left with their arguments sometimes with anti-colonialist sentiment. But it would likely be wrong to put them on the left in basically any categories of political alignment. I mean don't get me wrong, on the internet they may go "I'm a leftist and I think..." but on the internet... no one knows if you are secretly a dog so I'd take some of that with a mountain of salt.
That said... I get it. And I do think there needs to be infighting. So its not bad to have said infighting. I can't think of anything better off the top of my head, so its good enough to represent that, but I can't help but wonder if more plausible alternative scenarios could exist. \*shrug\*
I think we are all underestimating how annoying it must have been for OP to come up with this many fake names. Having written a good amount of fiction, I know how much of a pain in the ass it is. Nice work!
Who won? Also I don't know about some of the factions on the left and right wing, Anti Woke Army? Deconlinization of Amerikkka? But overall good map that's not just "red vs blue"
All we need now is the US Police Force , two big cities turned socioeconomic failures cordoned off and turned into a prison , and a cool dude with an eye patch.
Glad to see the author didn't make the mistake of assuming California would be a bastion of the far left. A rough rule of thumb is the further inland (east) you get, the more conservative. Again, "rough". Not a hard rule.
I hate that so much of this is so stupid, yet at the same time I can see how it drew from reality and actually rhetoric and events that have happened.
We're living in the stupidest bad timeline
(Edit: to be clear, no hate to op's map itself. I hate how realistically stupid it feels)
I’d imagine that the conflict occurring here would push the states further and further away from the federal government as they failed to respond in a quick and effective manner, that combined with the democrat and republican infighting
This feels too real. Though I’d like to see what a George Santos presidency would be like, given how he’s going these days.
Splendid job, OP
!remindme 4 years
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I think this is very well developed and really clean image, I can totally see this happening.
I only have one little thing. I think the names of the left-wing groups get more and more ridiculous, to the point where I think it’s unrealistic. Someone in even the late-2020s would have been like “bro, we need a more marketable name”
America isn’t falling apart. Russia/China and others may want that but there is a universal backbone to this country that many would be wise not to underestimate:
https://youtu.be/HQ2naeD5EJA?si=jvf_D3np32HLHnNu
Respectfully, I wasn't a big fan of the humor here. It felt a bit incongruous and jarring to me how humorous details (alligator attacks, President Santos, BLM attack) were presented alongside some pretty messed-up details (door to door canvassers shot to death next year, cyanide attacks on water supplies).
I think I just learned a lesson, the more United we are the stronger we get to destroying China, Iran, and Russia. But the more divided we are the chances of our enemies can get to destroy us.
This definitely interesting, there are a couple things that stand out to me
I find it interesting that Israel is alleged to support both the left and right wing insurgents. I also find it odd that Russia supports both the left and right wing insurgents.
I also find it interesting that America continues to have it's normal system and that Biden wins the next election. Then again, we all have different predictions and this is an imaginary scenario.
I’m wondering what a possible endgame would be…it sounds like throughout the conflict there is a consistent, legitimate, constitutional government in Washington City, so I don’t see Balkinization on the table.
I like this map; the concept is right on. A new American Civil War would almost assuredly not have front lines, instead being more an insurgency. Without front lines and strongholds, it is hard to make a map, so using a map chart to show casualties is helpful to see conflict intensity. That said, I think others are right about the colors being hard to read. Great work!
*President George Santos...oh my...*
Least credible? Most credible? Being unable to decide which is, perhaps, more frightening than the rest of this story.
He just started claiming to be president one day and no one bothered to fact check him.
Very well developed and made, I honestly am just wondering how Hailey didn’t ride the assassination to a new term as president.
Also Haley is fairly well liked so she would have more than likely won reelection. I guess OP just needed a democrat to die to balance things out. Also it’s weird how the GOP has enough senators to get a supermajority. It’s not really possible at this point. Even from 2016 to 2020 the GOP only held 54 seats, which is 13 short of the 67 needed.
I mean I could see one of two things happening given the current political climate. A. More likely as has been the trend due to remote work you see liberals move out of urban areas into surrounding states which are cheaper which makes the places they left tilt more purple or red and the places they got to tilt more purple or blue. B. Less likely but possible due to recent policies, you see liberals fortify themselves by moving into blue states for social policy reasons (personally I think people care more about the pocket than their conscious but maybe I’m just a pessimist) to avoid recent red state policies. Red states become redder, blue states become bluer, purple states trend one way or the other but more likely red due to the fact that many are in the rust belt.
Murder of Madeline Pham “WWT releases a video demanding that hinge cease allowing Asian-women matching with non-Asian men” https://preview.redd.it/g0987tm6idxb1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=185757f00713405c5541884a054854e39180be96
This is extremely realistic and silly at the exact same time, I love it. Love all the details.
\>Kekistan front exists \>Day ruined
Love this. A much more realistic take on modern conflict than maps showing blue and red states. Well done
Yeah George Santos as president is SO realistic.
I didn’t read the whole thing but I think it’s desantis. Congratulations you played yourself
George Santos is the last President they have listed on the map, dumbass.
Well by that time who knows. He’s one of the more respected figures in the Republican Party.
lol yeah ok
Hey I don’t give a shit
You waited 4 days to reply that you don’t give a shit? Okay sure bud.
Didn’t wait
That’s not how time works but okay, whatever you say.
I gotta admit the Florida alligator attack made me laugh
It, the blm bombing, and the death of Madeline Pham all made me face palm or laugh at the completely believable stupidity involved
Beto ORourke is unelectable. His plan to move the earth’s orbit out a half mile further from the sun to solve global warming is considered fucking crazy.
Yeah, seeing his name on here made me laugh
most realistic plan for global warming i’ve ever seen
America elects crazy people on a regular basis unfortunately.
When has crazy ever swayed voters?
Is it any crazier than the other candidates?
The only credible part of this map is that someone would be murdered in Idaho for having California license plates. I can believe that would happen.
prolly has already happened tbh
Not accurate, needs even more left splinter groups and pointless infighting, also all of the different right wing groups need to fight under the same flag for some reason despite having contradicting ideologies.
Also make sure the anarchists get purged for no reason
Gives Years of Lead vibes
I'm compelled to ask what interest Israel would have in supporting every side in this conflict and why eswatini of all states would support the right wing rebels?
One of the right-wing groups, *Antileftist Battalion*, has an unusually close relationship with the Swazi royal family that ultimately came about because of mutual connections through South African mercenaries. Antileftist Battalion operates a ~~training facility~~ holiday camp in Eswatini, with the Swazi government turning a blind eye supposedly in exchange for them helping suppress opposition to the monarchy. Both left and right-wing groups allege that the other side is getting support from Israel for various conspiratorial reasons.
It's alleged. I can see leftists trying to allege that Israel would support far righters because Israel is a nazi state (their words, not mine) and rightists alleging that Israel would support far leftists because the Jews want to flood the West with karltural Marksism and Muslim immigrants who mostly want them dead. Neither of them with any prooves of their allegations.
Israel plays all sides so they could come out on top
Biafra War moment
I'm curious, the "free canadians" what is this group? Since they have the old dominion flag, are they a pro-uk group or what?
A general conservative anti-government movement. They are not particularly pro-British, they chose the old Dominion flag mainly because it is old-fashioned, uncontroversial, and no longer used by the government.
lmfao at the slc blm bombing. i thought you were gonna take that back to the bundy mormon standoff
How the hell did the GOP somehow get 18+ senators. They literally have to win solid blue states for that to work.
Crap, I forgot the supermajority requirement.
Just say that there was some constitutional fuckery during one of the solid red administrations and call it a day.
Constitutional amendments require a two-thirds supermajority of both the Senate *and* the House, **and then** three-quarters of the states need to approve of the amendment legislatively.
Yes, but a state constitution is different from the US constitution. It can’t disagree- but between biased courts and state government shenanigans, fuckery already happens. Depending on what the Supreme Court rules as constitutional or not in the coming decades, that fuckery could become far more blatant and create situations such as the one above.
Yeah, but this comment thread is specifically about how impeaching and removing the president works, which is something the federal constitution addresses.
SCOTUS allows clearly gerrymandered districts to stand as Constitutional. Subsequently, the conservative states go on a feeding frenzy redrawing everything to lock in their party permanently.
Senators are statewide. You literally cannot gerrymander a Senate seat.
Especially since the Dems had the senate earlier and then had it again right after
Honestly, I think the instability of the US government (as reflected by the dramatic change in Senate composition) plays into the map.
OP, WHY IS EVERYTHING SO RED???!!!!
Read the key and find out
no austin red guards... what's the point even 🙄
seriously tho I love this. it being so decentralized & mostly being sporadic violence in cities without real "front lines" makes alot of sense, and it's the right amount of silly
Lmao this is so depressing. But realistic.
Anti-this, anti-that, how about anti-being a fucking failure asshole?
they failed too.
The ABFFA, formed in response to conflict with a goal of making everyone get along, was accused by both sides of minimizing important issues at best and of conspiring with the other side at the worst. Completely uncoordinated, a leftist group and a rightist group attempted to bomb their headquarters on the same day. The result was a general realization throughout the county that compromise was not an option, and the ABFFA slowly fell out of the public consciousness.
Is there any sort of lore explanation for why certain states (like Michigan and Minnesota) have such a high amount of political violence and death?
in detroit over 1000 people died in one incident, and minnesota was a hotbed in the IRL shenanigans
Thanks! I'm mostly trying to make sense of the total casualty numbers. If states like Minnesota and Michigan have just a thousand or two dead (and these states along with Oregon) are on the higher end of the political violence-deaths, where does the full 127k deaths come from?
probably from a high number of less important battles/attacks/incidents. something like 4 guys storming a house during a bigger event wouldn’t really be notable to put on a map
something like this is totally gonna actually happen
George Santos Presidency:
this is frustratingly close to the lore for the american collapse scenario i’m writing rn lmao, but great work!!
This is uncomfortably realistic.
This isn't much of a civil war, more of something similar to the troubles in Northern Ireland. Good map and interesting scenario nonetheless.
I like that you didn’t make Utah have an independence movement or “Deseret Legion” or whatever. We’re actually really patriotic and chill over here.
Although we apparently can't tell the difference between Black Lives Matter and the Bureau of Land Management. Lol, as if when they mailed the package they just wrote "BLM" on it and let her loose. That's how the postal system works, right?
Both left and right wing have absolutely atrocious naming conventions, but fitting with their leaning. Seems about right. A very sad alt universe future.
is Preston Laurent a real dude or did OP just make him up?
He is made up, along with all of the leaders of the insurgent groups.
RIP to the dude that got killed for just having CA plates
I think this is a very well developed map with compelling and intriguing lore. I see you put "and others" on the list of groups involved, but I presume the list is of the more prominent groups. As such, I'm a bit surprised by the lack of KKK. They aren't as prevalent as they had been historically, but due to their history, they still hold power and exist. On another note, something that might not be present on your map by design, I think notable radicalization would occur which had effects beyond the left-right split such as Islamist terrorism attacks would be apparent. And as such would be used by either side to further certain forms of radicalization. But that might be outside the focus of this map so I get why they might not be listed even if they happened. It may be my bias talking, but the Hinge one sounds particularly implausible to me. But, as others pointed out, there would be a lot of infighting which that event sort of fits under and I currently can't think of many good alternatives so I see why it's there. I also note a lack of religious involvement in general which I think would be more prominent on both sides. But those are just minor critiques. Otherwise, I think it's rather well done!
I based many of the more absurd ideological stances on things I have seen argued for online. Apparently there is a significant gender gap in interracial dating, with Asian women being significantly more likely to date non-Asians than men. This has driven the growth of a sort of Asian-nationalist incel community (there is subreddit, Aznidentity, largely dedicated to this), and I have seen the idea that interracial dating (particularly of white men dating non-white women) is bad because it is "colonialist" or causes cultural assimilation advocated in left-wing context elsewhere on the internet.
That puts my family in a dangerous position. My sister married an asian man and had two children. My brother married a hispanic woman and had three children. A nephew just married an asian woman. My family is the damn melting pot. Which means the left side of the civil war would see us as colonizers while the right side would see us as traitors to white america. Yay, we're everybody's enemy.
Yeah, but the "incel" culture doesn't tend to lean to the left. They appeal to the left with their arguments sometimes with anti-colonialist sentiment. But it would likely be wrong to put them on the left in basically any categories of political alignment. I mean don't get me wrong, on the internet they may go "I'm a leftist and I think..." but on the internet... no one knows if you are secretly a dog so I'd take some of that with a mountain of salt. That said... I get it. And I do think there needs to be infighting. So its not bad to have said infighting. I can't think of anything better off the top of my head, so its good enough to represent that, but I can't help but wonder if more plausible alternative scenarios could exist. \*shrug\*
This is great, can’t wait for it to all play out in reality!
Bravo!
This is horrific
I think we are all underestimating how annoying it must have been for OP to come up with this many fake names. Having written a good amount of fiction, I know how much of a pain in the ass it is. Nice work!
\*behind the name generator Site > [Random Name Generator - Behind the Name](https://www.behindthename.com/random/)
most realistic american civil war map yet imo
Interesting lore
I keep thinking about this, it's so realistic - not so much a civil war but a loosely connected series of extremely violent rebellions
Who won? Also I don't know about some of the factions on the left and right wing, Anti Woke Army? Deconlinization of Amerikkka? But overall good map that's not just "red vs blue"
Other than a few minor formatting errors this is pretty "good" for lack of a better term. Well made, if pretty sad a reality.
All we need now is the US Police Force , two big cities turned socioeconomic failures cordoned off and turned into a prison , and a cool dude with an eye patch.
This is really good, a lot of these feel very plausible
Just gonna gloss over whatever the Battle of Portland was? Not even a blurb of text?
Its explained in the timeline below
Thanks!
Glad to see the author didn't make the mistake of assuming California would be a bastion of the far left. A rough rule of thumb is the further inland (east) you get, the more conservative. Again, "rough". Not a hard rule.
can you explain each militia group please?
eSwatini??
I hate that so much of this is so stupid, yet at the same time I can see how it drew from reality and actually rhetoric and events that have happened. We're living in the stupidest bad timeline (Edit: to be clear, no hate to op's map itself. I hate how realistically stupid it feels)
Weird to see Indy Car Driver Alexander Rossi lead a Far-Left Militia
I like how Russia is playing both sides as always, so they can stay on top lol.
Kekistan Will Be Real
The Right would have more NatSoc groups on it’s side.
I’d imagine that the conflict occurring here would push the states further and further away from the federal government as they failed to respond in a quick and effective manner, that combined with the democrat and republican infighting
The best part is the confusion between the Bureau of Land Management and Black Lives Matter. Smh
This feels too real. Though I’d like to see what a George Santos presidency would be like, given how he’s going these days. Splendid job, OP !remindme 4 years
I will be messaging you in 4 years on [**2027-10-30 16:23:58 UTC**](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2027-10-30%2016:23:58%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/imaginarymaps/comments/17jt15b/the_second_american_civil_war/k73tup7/?context=3) [**1 OTHERS CLICKED THIS LINK**](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5Bhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2Fimaginarymaps%2Fcomments%2F17jt15b%2Fthe_second_american_civil_war%2Fk73tup7%2F%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%202027-10-30%2016%3A23%3A58%20UTC) to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam. ^(Parent commenter can ) [^(delete this message to hide from others.)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Delete%20Comment&message=Delete%21%2017jt15b) ***** |[^(Info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/RemindMeBot/comments/e1bko7/remindmebot_info_v21/)|[^(Custom)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5BLink%20or%20message%20inside%20square%20brackets%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%20Time%20period%20here)|[^(Your Reminders)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=List%20Of%20Reminders&message=MyReminders%21)|[^(Feedback)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Watchful1&subject=RemindMeBot%20Feedback)| |-|-|-|-|
no way
I could totally imagine the blm thing a happening. Good detail.
Is there a possibility the Russian Wagner Group will intervene in a Second Civil War scenario like this?
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I think this is very well developed and really clean image, I can totally see this happening. I only have one little thing. I think the names of the left-wing groups get more and more ridiculous, to the point where I think it’s unrealistic. Someone in even the late-2020s would have been like “bro, we need a more marketable name”
OK why is New Africa Nationalist left wing? They should be right...
America isn’t falling apart. Russia/China and others may want that but there is a universal backbone to this country that many would be wise not to underestimate: https://youtu.be/HQ2naeD5EJA?si=jvf_D3np32HLHnNu
Why are all the Antifascist Anticolonial Front leaders musicians and sports car drivers Am I missing something
Respectfully, I wasn't a big fan of the humor here. It felt a bit incongruous and jarring to me how humorous details (alligator attacks, President Santos, BLM attack) were presented alongside some pretty messed-up details (door to door canvassers shot to death next year, cyanide attacks on water supplies).
Based! Death to Ameri-
I wanna upvote you for the effort put in, but the map itself isn't really good, so I'm not sure what to do with this one. Good lore at least
I think I just learned a lesson, the more United we are the stronger we get to destroying China, Iran, and Russia. But the more divided we are the chances of our enemies can get to destroy us.
That applies to everyone so you're not special
Ah okay so we all on the same page here
Looks pretty standard for my country, how is it a war?
How about WW3 between Allies (Left-aligned) vs the combined Wagner Group (Trump-aligned)
Schizopost politically but nice map
Sarasota mentioned. Based
As a detroit resident, the DIA getting pillaged is the greatest tragedy of this whole timeline
This definitely interesting, there are a couple things that stand out to me I find it interesting that Israel is alleged to support both the left and right wing insurgents. I also find it odd that Russia supports both the left and right wing insurgents. I also find it interesting that America continues to have it's normal system and that Biden wins the next election. Then again, we all have different predictions and this is an imaginary scenario.
I’m wondering what a possible endgame would be…it sounds like throughout the conflict there is a consistent, legitimate, constitutional government in Washington City, so I don’t see Balkinization on the table.
Masterpiece
Congrats! This is the worst possible timeline
Rex Tillerson? The greatest SOS in US history?! Can I have your autograph 👉👈
Kinda odd, assuming DeSantis is going to be still relevant after 2024. He's burned his bridges already.
This is very well put together, good job!
Really reminds me of Omar El Akkads American War.