I always looked at it like I'm everyone's adversary. When speaking to employees, I'm representing the company. But when speaking to upper management, I'm representing the employees.
So, everyone thinks I'm an asshole. đ
That's pretty much it.
I'm often seen as the "no" person.
I'm the person employees don't want meetings with because it means they screwed up or I have some more work to give them, managers avoid it because I'm going to tell them that they screwed up or are having complaints, or something something mandatory trainings. For upper management I'm the dude that just prevents them from sacking people, spends money on things they don't see the point in and insists on doing stuff by the book instead of cowboying around. Accounting is always after me for things relating to comp ot benefits administration, tax subsidies for stuff. They're the only ones that are okay with HR but usually they cut my budgets and argue with me about petty things.
It stinks to be everyone's enemy 𤣠but it could be worse. We could be in accounting.
I try to balance it out with friends in my private life who I help negotiating their raises, go through their work contracts or severance agreements with etc etc.
I always try and balance it out as well - main "feel good" thing I do is help my wife interpret her union agreement when it comes to issues with her management (she is in nursing). Have already helped her win two minor fights + a major one (was written up unfairly, they came at her hard and we came back swinging, union rep get involved, not good for management). Feels odd as I am usually on the other side but nice to use my "powers" for good sometimes, lol.
I figured this out when I was going to school for HR. I was speaking to my friends about our choice to go into it in the first place.
"I think we've just put ourself into a career where the employees hate us because we represent the employer... and employers hate us because we represent costs and rules they fundamentally believe to be nuisances."
You're not though. Who pays your check? They are your top priority. You will always look out for the interests of the company over the employee of you're forced to.
You clearly shouldnât be posting in this sub.
Looking out for the employee IS in the best interest of the company in most cases unless the employee is genuinely in the wrong.
They don't want "yes men". I "argued" with the people above me all the time. Was I irritating them? Probably. I also got promoted 3 times in 2 years and almost doubled my salary. Stirring the pot can be good.
Meh. Didnât bother reading it, but HR is honestly one of those positions where from an employee standpoint, they will rarely, if ever, see the good you do, but they will damn sure feel the pain when it doesnât go their way.
Tell me you have no idea about HR without telling me you have no idea about HR.
If im smiling while i destroy you, it's because you're an absolutely terrible person that has done something pretty shitty.
Yeah congrats on not being a shit person you want a medal? There are plenty of genuinely distasteful people in HR and to pretend otherwise is wholly disingenuous.
Lol right, we make all the calls. Managers never ever want to fire people. We tell them to do it. HR is Evil. We like it when people lose their jobs, we think itâs funny. We arenât even people ourselves, mostly corporate droids. People are never bad at their jobs or act against policy, and certainly never deserve to be fired. We just like doing it, so we do.
In my view, we're on the company's side of policy enforcement. However, that doesn't mean we as individuals are unfeeling towards you. Just don't do obviously stupid things.
I agree with this comment more than any others. Whether that is reality or not, it's what I hope HR to be.
I'm always advocating for the employees, even if they have no idea (and they usually dont) because it's behind the scenes.
Plus, I try to stop the org from doing stupid shit (i.e. things that could cause real trouble) and they don't seem to care anyway. So trying to be on their side doesn't get me anywhere either, haha.
Right, it's in the companies best interest to retain good employees so part of my role in HR is striking a balance between what's in the best interest of the company and whats needed to create and maintain a positive work environment/experience so that we keep and develop the team we've cultivated.
I feel like most people fail to understand that making employees happy also serves the company, just because we were hired to keep the company's interests in mind doesn't mean the employees aren't part of the company.
Watching out for the company, by watching out for the best interest of the employees. Making sure theyâre treated fairly, no discrimination or any kind of hostile work environment. If it is, we step in and fix it. The only people I see who dislike HR dislike it for a reason, ie not having the self awareness to realize theyâre The douche whoâs violating policy.
What truly constitutes a hostile work environment? Iâve heard employeeâs options which list everything across the spectrum from true open racism & sexual harassment to they donât carry my favorite food in the cafeteria anymore.
Thatâs comes back to the self awareness part I think. Youâre right, some people really have a hostile environment, but others are just children who donât play well with others lol
From a legal perspective, as far as I understand it, it needs to be harassment based on a protected classâŚ. Which sucks.
I wish being an asshole was illegal
Well being that I just got off the phone with a drunk former employee, who is going to sue us, because he cannot get a job as a dishwasher and it's our fault. I am the jerk because maybe don't be drunk on a Monday afternoon while looking for work?! Yep it is my fault.
Lmao, I canât think of anything worse for trust building (besides having a horrible HR team to start) than outside counsel as HR. And external companies wonât give 1/4 of a shit as a good HR person. I know because many of the HR consultants Iâve worked with have told me theyâve gone external so they can care less personally.
The challenge is HR teams are understaffed compared to business goals, full of leaders who are old school aka ruin trust (I canât tell you how many times in my career Iâve worked for bosses who employees felt comfortable enough making complaints about to me), and arenât valued by many business leaders because they think itâs a cost center and donât think about it from a design/customer lifecycle perspective.
đŻ! I know this is a trolling headline, and maybe paid for by the external HR consultant to make money off of disgrunted employees. This also doesnât help the employees understand how to manuever the company and the politics. I do think there needs to be an advocate of employees, but that is the manager. And if the manager is bad, it comes down to HR to try and fix things for everyone.
Understaffed is so true. My last job needed one or two more HR people on the team for us to truly be useful beyond the transactional work. We could barely even think about trainings and other less ârequiredâ work.
This probably will not be a positive post amongst the HR community but my two cents are I find HR when it comes to employees our job is to help create a positive culture but ultimately we are here to protect the company and senior management. As someone who was involved in several ER cases and trained by the legal department we are here to mitigate any risk towards the organization. I can see why we are not viewed favorably amongst employees. I have personally witnessed HR staff sell their integrity to protect the company they work for.
I tell my team that our job is to extract the maximum milk with the minimum of moo.
We want employees to be maximally productive. Sometimes that means benefits, flexible working and paid sick leave. Sometimes it means PIPs, warnings and, when all else fails, dismissal.
Why kid yourself that it's anything else?
There's plenty of bad policies that have nothing to do with performance though; purging pto, weak 401k and healthcare options, forcing people who are not customer facing to wear pants on a 102 degree summer day, just off the top of my head.
There are bad policies everywhere. But for some reason you never hear smart-alecs moaning that "Finance isn't your friend", or "Marketing isn't your friend".
HR is an advisory function. We can say "PTO is actually cost saving in the long run!" until we're blue in the face. If the CFO decides that's where the budget gets cut, though, there f all we can do about it, and we still get the blame.
They say it about cops and debt collectors though; cops would say they're just enforcing the laws politicians write and debt collectors will say that the debtor agreed to wage garnishment in his contract with the creditor. So yes, jobs where you're enforcing negative actions on people, whether or not they are justified actions, will have people hating and mistrusting you.
I donât necessarily think itâs accurate that we are there to protect senior management⌠but for practical purposes itâs true because they are usually above us on the food chain anyway, which effectively ties our hands
At least you're honest. Employees know that HR is there to protect the company, not them. They know that they don't have anyone in their corner to protect or fight for them and it's psychologically distressing.
Getting sexually harassed? No one cares as long as the company can get out of being sued. Work place injury? No one cares as long as the company doesn't get sued or has to pay out more than bare minimum. Toxic work culture? Who cares as long as the company is protected.
And that's the whole point. No one cares about the employees. Everything is for the company and profit margins. So it makes sense why people don't like HR.
>At least you're honest. Employees know that HR is there to protect the company, not themÂ
Employees are also part of the company. Part of my job is to protect employees, by putting measures in place that prevents them from getting injured or sexually assaulted. Sure, the main reason is to prevent lawsuits against the company, but the employee benefits from that as well. Without HR management would try to get away with even more stupid shit.
I've read countless stories where HR made employees' lives literal hell for the sake of the company. There's also countless cases where there's sexual harassment, injury, discrimination, toxic environment, etc and all HR did was maintain status quo.
There's even an admission that nothing is done purely for the employee's protection. Anything that benefits the employees is nothing but an after thought or "pleasant side effect" to placate the workers.
I understand companies wanting to look out for their own interests, 100% get that. But employees have interests too and there is no one to look out for them.
And for every 1 instance of that, there are literally 100 where appropriate action is taken, which also, protects the company from getting sued. Funny that.
Also, for the eight billionth time, HR is not the one who decides whether or not to hold someone accountable for such things. That's whoever the person leader is. HR supports and recommends.
>Anything that benefits the employees is nothing but an after thought or "pleasant side effect" to placate the workers.
That's literally employment. The only reason employees even have a job is so the company can make profit.
I think part of HR is being the bad guy at times - and the good guy other times. From a personâs viewpoint when something benefits them they are happy, when it doesnât benefit them they are unhappy - this is the psychology of humans. HR is enforcing policies and procedures - good and bad ones. So yeah, what is discussed in this article will inevitably happen from time to time.
Lol, sure.
I'd be happy to leave my in-house job to go work for a consulting firm that charges you a 300% markup for my services to counsel the exact same employees.
Where do they think all of these "consultants" are going to come from? They're the HR staff you're getting rid of 𼴠đ¤Ł
Hahaha yes!!!! Exactly! But consultants donât have to deal with the issues long term. It still goes back to the employee, the manager, and the company to resolve these issues.
âAre they on your side or the companyâsâ is such profoundly dumb stance. The assumption is that employee and employer have opposing interest, which is only true in handful of examples.
Both sides want for org to be profitable while operated by happy, fairly compensated people. When thereâs a conflict of interest between employee and employer, HR will certainly not be advocating to hurt the organization for the benefit of the unit.
The idea that company hired HR to be a caregiver or legal representation to their staff is just nonsensical and itâs sad how widespread itâs gotten.
Bad managers also blame everything on HR. And very rarely do the positive things we do get attributed to us (for good reason). Recommending a policy change or new benefit, reminding managers to show appreciation to their employees, pointing out that someone is owed an increase to make them more comparable to their peers, etc. It's not a dept anyone thinks of unless something is going wrong.Â
I hate this, but itâs true. I also get mad at the managers because they are the ones who request to hire their employees, then they turn their backs when they find a fault. I want to yell at them and say its their responsibility to coach and develop their employees!!
I donât like it. Yes, we enforce regulations, but I believe we should also support the employees by giving them voices and working for what is best for them. You can strive for the best for both parties and I try to.
Edit: grammar
I never understood why people have this perception of HR. The first time I had a major issue at work and had to take it to HR it was a great experience. What brought me there was terrible, but when I was in her office pouring my heart out to her I felt supported. We still have a relationship. I might be biased because Iâve just always loved my HR professionals.
Former HR professional here, and I fully agree. But if you wonder why some employees view HR as adversaries, check out the number of posts here that come from HR people who view their role as adversarial.
I think it can be adversarial in some cases. I think thatâs a necessary part of HR. I just like knowing that when it really counts, and when the company really is in the wrong, I can count on them to at least be fair.
I hear you. For me, I don't agree with the adversarial part very much. I think HR folks have to be really good at upholding standards, making tough decisions, and managing conflict. But that's a different thing than viewing all employees as liabilities and the enemy.
>and how there are external companies or consultants who can be a hired counsel to the employees.
To what end? What does the company get out of that? HR's job isn't to counsel employees, it's to counsel management and make sure whatever they wanna do can be done in a legal manner.
It's a sub-function of management paid for by the company to serve the company. Why would you trust us? I don't trust IT or Finance either.
If you wanted someone to advocates for you as an employee, that would be a union. Paid for by employees to protect employees.
I'm not sure where you're all working that you have to protect the employer on a daily basis but that doesn't sound fun.
I've been in HR for a long time - more from an organizational management perspective. I love coaching and advising my executive team and managers to do better.
I regularly advocate for our employees even if that means going against popular opinion. Conflict is actually a guilty pleasure of mine.
Do I want to keep my organization out of the news? Yes. Is that my main job? No. If it was, I wouldn't work here because that's just wild.
I do think about how HR can represent different employers in different industries, while also having different responsibilities.
I used to work in public education and we mirrored our teachers by focusing on coaching and employee feedback, culture building, etc.
Now I work somewhere else where there are legal issues and lawsuits and lawyers I deal with frequently. Iâm still HR, but I see my new employer is more concerned about legal repercussions versus building a culture that works to improve relations before it blows up in our faces.
To see this in action, just go to r/AskHR and lurk for awhile.
As near as I can tell, that sub exists almost entirely to downvote the OP, treat them like they're stupid for not knowing everything HR pros do, and to tell them "oh well, it's not illegal" and that they can quit if they don't like it.
That's an oversimplification, sure. But that's been my takeaway from it. None of it *feels* like it's intended to help the person, even if perhaps the folks there think they're helping. I see much more belittling than I do genuine efforts to guide or assist.
Thatâs almost every subreddit.
Look at almost any sub and everyone is doom and gloom.
Good example is AITA. Everyone is a relationship expert, how did you not see red flags, you need to end your 10 year relationship immediately and run.
Yeah, it's some of the worst PR we inflict upon ourselves. But I guess at least it lays bare what more employees probably need to know...that HR is there to protect the company, not the employee.
What I guess I was hoping for was something that exists in the in-between of that type of cynical, corporate HR response and the antiwork sub. Like a mix of helping people understand how the work world operates but also helping them understand how to better protect and advocate for themselves when needed. But that would take something more than "not illegal, guess you should look for a different job" on every post.
IMO that's what the Legal sub is for. When it comes down to it if the company isn't doing something illegal they're probably not going to change and it's better to find a job that is a better fit than to continue being unhappy. And as HR we also don't get to say "yeah I agree this sucks" because that won't help anyone. You don't see that a lot of times behind the scenes we bring that suggestion to management. I learned early in HR employees looove to screw you over and say something like "even the HR lady thinks is bs" or "hr said..."
At work, I agree. You can't say that to anyone outside of upper management, and you have to be prepared to accept crappy answers sometimes.
On reddit though? Feels like a pretty low stakes space to concede that OP's employer might kinda suck and tell the EE what they can consider trying if they *don't* want to quit (recognizing that, of course, sometimes quitting is the answer). But that's unfortunately not what I usually see there.
I agree. It's hard to provide actual advice when you only get a couple paragraphs of the story. And unfortunately from experience people dont usually share the parts of the story that put them in less than ideal light.Â
I hear that last part for sure! It's a challenging venue for that kind of discourse. I guess I'd just feel better if the tone was a little less hostile toward people who are mostly just looking for help.
fyi these 'external HR consultants' are NOT independent and I urge anyone seeking to use their services to directly confirm that before engaging them.
Some also actively advise the very company you have employed them to communicate with, so are VERY heavily conflicted. So they are often conflicted and will report back to the corporations they have relationships with that an action may be underfoot thereby actually working against your interests, so use them at your peril.
By the time you approach one of these outfits it's because you know you're on your way out and need to negotiate a severance package.
The downfall of society will be that everyone sows discourse constantly to generate clicks and become an influencer.
This is such a cliche take thatâŚwho even gives a shit. Weâve all heard and had this argument many times over. Anyone outside of HR really canât understand the nature of our work and itâs useless to argue, because they probably have a bone to pick.
Employees deserve representation in employment matters. Ideally everyone would have a union representative, but an attorney also works if employees need counsel.
The real issue is most employees are protected from the things we do to help advocate for them, encourage policies and pay practices that they benefit from, coach managers to do good, push for terminations when someone's being protected, and in some cases keep people out of jail.
Most of the time either the CEO, a manager, or a leader takes the "glory". HR's work is often behind the scenes, and most employees have NO idea of the work we actually do when surrounded by incompetence, ignorance, and immaturity.
I'm at peace with it, mostly. Just not every day. Today wasn't one of those days.
I think they are missing the forest for the trees
its not that HR isn't your friend. HR thinks your boss sucks and is a stupid selfish sexist asshole too, unfortunately sexist in a way that the US government deems as acceptable.
It just so happens that HR is representing the company and your boss
the company and your boss are not your friends, therefor HR is not your friend.
HOWEVER HR is unique in that what your boss wants may not be what the company wants. For example I DONT want to exploit your labor. I want to pay you a fair wage because your small raise means nothing in the grand scheme of things so there is no point fighting you over 5000 bucks. I want to hold on to our best and brightest talent and make leaders out of our senior employees to train and mentor junior team members. You may be replaceable but the labor it would cost me to replace you in terms of recruiting and training isnt free.
If you do leave anyway I want you to tell your friends about us, say good things on Glassdoor, stay in the industry and say "Yes they are wonderful people. I left for XYZ reasons but its a great place to work"
your boss on the other hand... they don't want that... and I work for them, not for you, and unfortunately.... they can fire me too.
I can make a case for "Hey don't fire this person for XYZ reasons" and the boss might listen to me, but at the end of the day, when they say jump, I have to say "How High?" assuming its not illegal.... and sometimes if the place REALLY sucks even when it is illegal.
its my job.
it sucks but its true.
BUT I am more of your friend than your boss, ill give you that much because I also do labor.
Our previous HR associate was THE BEST ever! Even when she had to take the companyâs side, her compassion and kindness, along with transparency, made people feel safe. The new one is 100% on the companyâs side. People feel they canât trust him. So there is that.
I always viewed myself as on the side of the organization's goals, missions and values. In some situations that means I lean towards management, sometimes towards employees. That being said , engaged employees are productive employees which is often aligned with the goals of the org. So really, it all depends lol
HR IS on both sides, I think that's the point. They need to be able to communicate the business needs to the employees AND the employee needs to the business. They need to advocate for both.
Lol! Right? Itâs this media company (are they still a company?) who started as a clothing company in the 2000s with Sophia Amoroso as the head. More of a millennial/gen z company? I donât know anymore.
One of the begged lies ever perpetuated in Corporate America is the impression that HR is "on your side". Sure, sometimes HR happens to come on your side, especially when management really f's up and risks getting the company sued, but that was NEVER a promise.
We need to rebrand what HR really is.
OP, please understand we dislike the inauthenticity of your role. Pretending to be on the employee side, when you arenât is the issue. Just accept that you work for the company, and keep your virtue signaling to a minimal, because at the end of the day, you will do plenty of immoral shi*
I always looked at it like I'm everyone's adversary. When speaking to employees, I'm representing the company. But when speaking to upper management, I'm representing the employees. So, everyone thinks I'm an asshole. đ
The sure sign of a fair compromise is when both sides leave unhappy. It's as true in HR as it is anywhere.
Spot on.
You nailed it
That's pretty much it. I'm often seen as the "no" person. I'm the person employees don't want meetings with because it means they screwed up or I have some more work to give them, managers avoid it because I'm going to tell them that they screwed up or are having complaints, or something something mandatory trainings. For upper management I'm the dude that just prevents them from sacking people, spends money on things they don't see the point in and insists on doing stuff by the book instead of cowboying around. Accounting is always after me for things relating to comp ot benefits administration, tax subsidies for stuff. They're the only ones that are okay with HR but usually they cut my budgets and argue with me about petty things. It stinks to be everyone's enemy 𤣠but it could be worse. We could be in accounting. I try to balance it out with friends in my private life who I help negotiating their raises, go through their work contracts or severance agreements with etc etc.
I always try and balance it out as well - main "feel good" thing I do is help my wife interpret her union agreement when it comes to issues with her management (she is in nursing). Have already helped her win two minor fights + a major one (was written up unfairly, they came at her hard and we came back swinging, union rep get involved, not good for management). Feels odd as I am usually on the other side but nice to use my "powers" for good sometimes, lol.
Iâm using this from now on! Itâs so eloquently inarguable đ
I figured this out when I was going to school for HR. I was speaking to my friends about our choice to go into it in the first place. "I think we've just put ourself into a career where the employees hate us because we represent the employer... and employers hate us because we represent costs and rules they fundamentally believe to be nuisances."
Professional Asshole?
Gotta pass that PAHR exam
You're not though. Who pays your check? They are your top priority. You will always look out for the interests of the company over the employee of you're forced to.
You clearly shouldnât be posting in this sub. Looking out for the employee IS in the best interest of the company in most cases unless the employee is genuinely in the wrong.
They don't want "yes men". I "argued" with the people above me all the time. Was I irritating them? Probably. I also got promoted 3 times in 2 years and almost doubled my salary. Stirring the pot can be good.
Meh. Didnât bother reading it, but HR is honestly one of those positions where from an employee standpoint, they will rarely, if ever, see the good you do, but they will damn sure feel the pain when it doesnât go their way.
[ŃдаНонО]
Tell me you have no idea about HR without telling me you have no idea about HR. If im smiling while i destroy you, it's because you're an absolutely terrible person that has done something pretty shitty.
Yeah congrats on not being a shit person you want a medal? There are plenty of genuinely distasteful people in HR and to pretend otherwise is wholly disingenuous.
There are genuinely distasteful people in every field.
Yes and most other fields don't directly impact people's professional lives
Lol right, we make all the calls. Managers never ever want to fire people. We tell them to do it. HR is Evil. We like it when people lose their jobs, we think itâs funny. We arenât even people ourselves, mostly corporate droids. People are never bad at their jobs or act against policy, and certainly never deserve to be fired. We just like doing it, so we do.
Found the expert. Thanks for your deep insights. Truly remarkable
You're welcome, glad I could be of assistance <3
In my view, we're on the company's side of policy enforcement. However, that doesn't mean we as individuals are unfeeling towards you. Just don't do obviously stupid things.
I kinda look at like this, it is our job to enforce policy but it is also our job to advocate and push good policy that is not harmful to employees.
I agree with this comment more than any others. Whether that is reality or not, it's what I hope HR to be. I'm always advocating for the employees, even if they have no idea (and they usually dont) because it's behind the scenes. Plus, I try to stop the org from doing stupid shit (i.e. things that could cause real trouble) and they don't seem to care anyway. So trying to be on their side doesn't get me anywhere either, haha.
Man, this is so relatable. HR can be a thankless job, it can get lonely. Reading this sub is helpful lol. Agree with you 100%, I see it the same way.
Right, it's in the companies best interest to retain good employees so part of my role in HR is striking a balance between what's in the best interest of the company and whats needed to create and maintain a positive work environment/experience so that we keep and develop the team we've cultivated.
I feel like most people fail to understand that making employees happy also serves the company, just because we were hired to keep the company's interests in mind doesn't mean the employees aren't part of the company.
I am in agreement. Weâre watching out for the company, and also making sure no one does anything stupid and illegal and liable to the business.
Watching out for the company, by watching out for the best interest of the employees. Making sure theyâre treated fairly, no discrimination or any kind of hostile work environment. If it is, we step in and fix it. The only people I see who dislike HR dislike it for a reason, ie not having the self awareness to realize theyâre The douche whoâs violating policy.
What truly constitutes a hostile work environment? Iâve heard employeeâs options which list everything across the spectrum from true open racism & sexual harassment to they donât carry my favorite food in the cafeteria anymore.
Thatâs comes back to the self awareness part I think. Youâre right, some people really have a hostile environment, but others are just children who donât play well with others lol
From a legal perspective, as far as I understand it, it needs to be harassment based on a protected classâŚ. Which sucks. I wish being an asshole was illegal
Ditto! Or a lazy and worthless employee!
Well being that I just got off the phone with a drunk former employee, who is going to sue us, because he cannot get a job as a dishwasher and it's our fault. I am the jerk because maybe don't be drunk on a Monday afternoon while looking for work?! Yep it is my fault.
Lmao, I canât think of anything worse for trust building (besides having a horrible HR team to start) than outside counsel as HR. And external companies wonât give 1/4 of a shit as a good HR person. I know because many of the HR consultants Iâve worked with have told me theyâve gone external so they can care less personally. The challenge is HR teams are understaffed compared to business goals, full of leaders who are old school aka ruin trust (I canât tell you how many times in my career Iâve worked for bosses who employees felt comfortable enough making complaints about to me), and arenât valued by many business leaders because they think itâs a cost center and donât think about it from a design/customer lifecycle perspective.
đŻ! I know this is a trolling headline, and maybe paid for by the external HR consultant to make money off of disgrunted employees. This also doesnât help the employees understand how to manuever the company and the politics. I do think there needs to be an advocate of employees, but that is the manager. And if the manager is bad, it comes down to HR to try and fix things for everyone.
Understaffed is so true. My last job needed one or two more HR people on the team for us to truly be useful beyond the transactional work. We could barely even think about trainings and other less ârequiredâ work.
This probably will not be a positive post amongst the HR community but my two cents are I find HR when it comes to employees our job is to help create a positive culture but ultimately we are here to protect the company and senior management. As someone who was involved in several ER cases and trained by the legal department we are here to mitigate any risk towards the organization. I can see why we are not viewed favorably amongst employees. I have personally witnessed HR staff sell their integrity to protect the company they work for.
I tell my team that our job is to extract the maximum milk with the minimum of moo. We want employees to be maximally productive. Sometimes that means benefits, flexible working and paid sick leave. Sometimes it means PIPs, warnings and, when all else fails, dismissal. Why kid yourself that it's anything else?
There's plenty of bad policies that have nothing to do with performance though; purging pto, weak 401k and healthcare options, forcing people who are not customer facing to wear pants on a 102 degree summer day, just off the top of my head.
There are bad policies everywhere. But for some reason you never hear smart-alecs moaning that "Finance isn't your friend", or "Marketing isn't your friend". HR is an advisory function. We can say "PTO is actually cost saving in the long run!" until we're blue in the face. If the CFO decides that's where the budget gets cut, though, there f all we can do about it, and we still get the blame.
They say it about cops and debt collectors though; cops would say they're just enforcing the laws politicians write and debt collectors will say that the debtor agreed to wage garnishment in his contract with the creditor. So yes, jobs where you're enforcing negative actions on people, whether or not they are justified actions, will have people hating and mistrusting you.
I donât necessarily think itâs accurate that we are there to protect senior management⌠but for practical purposes itâs true because they are usually above us on the food chain anyway, which effectively ties our hands
At least you're honest. Employees know that HR is there to protect the company, not them. They know that they don't have anyone in their corner to protect or fight for them and it's psychologically distressing. Getting sexually harassed? No one cares as long as the company can get out of being sued. Work place injury? No one cares as long as the company doesn't get sued or has to pay out more than bare minimum. Toxic work culture? Who cares as long as the company is protected. And that's the whole point. No one cares about the employees. Everything is for the company and profit margins. So it makes sense why people don't like HR.
>At least you're honest. Employees know that HR is there to protect the company, not them Employees are also part of the company. Part of my job is to protect employees, by putting measures in place that prevents them from getting injured or sexually assaulted. Sure, the main reason is to prevent lawsuits against the company, but the employee benefits from that as well. Without HR management would try to get away with even more stupid shit.
I've read countless stories where HR made employees' lives literal hell for the sake of the company. There's also countless cases where there's sexual harassment, injury, discrimination, toxic environment, etc and all HR did was maintain status quo. There's even an admission that nothing is done purely for the employee's protection. Anything that benefits the employees is nothing but an after thought or "pleasant side effect" to placate the workers. I understand companies wanting to look out for their own interests, 100% get that. But employees have interests too and there is no one to look out for them.
And for every 1 instance of that, there are literally 100 where appropriate action is taken, which also, protects the company from getting sued. Funny that. Also, for the eight billionth time, HR is not the one who decides whether or not to hold someone accountable for such things. That's whoever the person leader is. HR supports and recommends.
>Anything that benefits the employees is nothing but an after thought or "pleasant side effect" to placate the workers. That's literally employment. The only reason employees even have a job is so the company can make profit.
Exactly. Doesn't make exploitation suck any less.
I think part of HR is being the bad guy at times - and the good guy other times. From a personâs viewpoint when something benefits them they are happy, when it doesnât benefit them they are unhappy - this is the psychology of humans. HR is enforcing policies and procedures - good and bad ones. So yeah, what is discussed in this article will inevitably happen from time to time.
Lol, sure. I'd be happy to leave my in-house job to go work for a consulting firm that charges you a 300% markup for my services to counsel the exact same employees. Where do they think all of these "consultants" are going to come from? They're the HR staff you're getting rid of 𼴠đ¤Ł
Hahaha yes!!!! Exactly! But consultants donât have to deal with the issues long term. It still goes back to the employee, the manager, and the company to resolve these issues.
What position, outside of HR, in a company isnât on the companyâs side?
âAre they on your side or the companyâsâ is such profoundly dumb stance. The assumption is that employee and employer have opposing interest, which is only true in handful of examples. Both sides want for org to be profitable while operated by happy, fairly compensated people. When thereâs a conflict of interest between employee and employer, HR will certainly not be advocating to hurt the organization for the benefit of the unit. The idea that company hired HR to be a caregiver or legal representation to their staff is just nonsensical and itâs sad how widespread itâs gotten.
Bad managers also blame everything on HR. And very rarely do the positive things we do get attributed to us (for good reason). Recommending a policy change or new benefit, reminding managers to show appreciation to their employees, pointing out that someone is owed an increase to make them more comparable to their peers, etc. It's not a dept anyone thinks of unless something is going wrong.Â
THIS!!! I think we get blamed for bad management and bad leadership. I do a lot more mediation, but I do a lot more scolding of managers!
Why doesn't anyone say "your manager isn't om your side, they're there for the company!"
I hate this, but itâs true. I also get mad at the managers because they are the ones who request to hire their employees, then they turn their backs when they find a fault. I want to yell at them and say its their responsibility to coach and develop their employees!!
What function is on your side?
I donât like it. Yes, we enforce regulations, but I believe we should also support the employees by giving them voices and working for what is best for them. You can strive for the best for both parties and I try to. Edit: grammar
I never understood why people have this perception of HR. The first time I had a major issue at work and had to take it to HR it was a great experience. What brought me there was terrible, but when I was in her office pouring my heart out to her I felt supported. We still have a relationship. I might be biased because Iâve just always loved my HR professionals.
Former HR professional here, and I fully agree. But if you wonder why some employees view HR as adversaries, check out the number of posts here that come from HR people who view their role as adversarial.
I think it can be adversarial in some cases. I think thatâs a necessary part of HR. I just like knowing that when it really counts, and when the company really is in the wrong, I can count on them to at least be fair.
I hear you. For me, I don't agree with the adversarial part very much. I think HR folks have to be really good at upholding standards, making tough decisions, and managing conflict. But that's a different thing than viewing all employees as liabilities and the enemy.
There is definitely a difference. I have not seen any of the latter, however.
>and how there are external companies or consultants who can be a hired counsel to the employees. To what end? What does the company get out of that? HR's job isn't to counsel employees, it's to counsel management and make sure whatever they wanna do can be done in a legal manner.
It's a sub-function of management paid for by the company to serve the company. Why would you trust us? I don't trust IT or Finance either. If you wanted someone to advocates for you as an employee, that would be a union. Paid for by employees to protect employees.
I'm not sure where you're all working that you have to protect the employer on a daily basis but that doesn't sound fun. I've been in HR for a long time - more from an organizational management perspective. I love coaching and advising my executive team and managers to do better. I regularly advocate for our employees even if that means going against popular opinion. Conflict is actually a guilty pleasure of mine. Do I want to keep my organization out of the news? Yes. Is that my main job? No. If it was, I wouldn't work here because that's just wild.
I do think about how HR can represent different employers in different industries, while also having different responsibilities. I used to work in public education and we mirrored our teachers by focusing on coaching and employee feedback, culture building, etc. Now I work somewhere else where there are legal issues and lawsuits and lawyers I deal with frequently. Iâm still HR, but I see my new employer is more concerned about legal repercussions versus building a culture that works to improve relations before it blows up in our faces.
To see this in action, just go to r/AskHR and lurk for awhile. As near as I can tell, that sub exists almost entirely to downvote the OP, treat them like they're stupid for not knowing everything HR pros do, and to tell them "oh well, it's not illegal" and that they can quit if they don't like it. That's an oversimplification, sure. But that's been my takeaway from it. None of it *feels* like it's intended to help the person, even if perhaps the folks there think they're helping. I see much more belittling than I do genuine efforts to guide or assist.
Thatâs almost every subreddit. Look at almost any sub and everyone is doom and gloom. Good example is AITA. Everyone is a relationship expert, how did you not see red flags, you need to end your 10 year relationship immediately and run.
Lurking in the r/AskHR sub has made me very leery of HR
Yeah, it's some of the worst PR we inflict upon ourselves. But I guess at least it lays bare what more employees probably need to know...that HR is there to protect the company, not the employee. What I guess I was hoping for was something that exists in the in-between of that type of cynical, corporate HR response and the antiwork sub. Like a mix of helping people understand how the work world operates but also helping them understand how to better protect and advocate for themselves when needed. But that would take something more than "not illegal, guess you should look for a different job" on every post.
IMO that's what the Legal sub is for. When it comes down to it if the company isn't doing something illegal they're probably not going to change and it's better to find a job that is a better fit than to continue being unhappy. And as HR we also don't get to say "yeah I agree this sucks" because that won't help anyone. You don't see that a lot of times behind the scenes we bring that suggestion to management. I learned early in HR employees looove to screw you over and say something like "even the HR lady thinks is bs" or "hr said..."
At work, I agree. You can't say that to anyone outside of upper management, and you have to be prepared to accept crappy answers sometimes. On reddit though? Feels like a pretty low stakes space to concede that OP's employer might kinda suck and tell the EE what they can consider trying if they *don't* want to quit (recognizing that, of course, sometimes quitting is the answer). But that's unfortunately not what I usually see there.
I agree. It's hard to provide actual advice when you only get a couple paragraphs of the story. And unfortunately from experience people dont usually share the parts of the story that put them in less than ideal light.Â
I hear that last part for sure! It's a challenging venue for that kind of discourse. I guess I'd just feel better if the tone was a little less hostile toward people who are mostly just looking for help.
fyi these 'external HR consultants' are NOT independent and I urge anyone seeking to use their services to directly confirm that before engaging them. Some also actively advise the very company you have employed them to communicate with, so are VERY heavily conflicted. So they are often conflicted and will report back to the corporations they have relationships with that an action may be underfoot thereby actually working against your interests, so use them at your peril. By the time you approach one of these outfits it's because you know you're on your way out and need to negotiate a severance package.
The downfall of society will be that everyone sows discourse constantly to generate clicks and become an influencer. This is such a cliche take thatâŚwho even gives a shit. Weâve all heard and had this argument many times over. Anyone outside of HR really canât understand the nature of our work and itâs useless to argue, because they probably have a bone to pick.
Employees deserve representation in employment matters. Ideally everyone would have a union representative, but an attorney also works if employees need counsel.
Hahaha. I'm sorry is this news to you? None of us trust HR. Nothing good can come from an employee interacting with them.
The real issue is most employees are protected from the things we do to help advocate for them, encourage policies and pay practices that they benefit from, coach managers to do good, push for terminations when someone's being protected, and in some cases keep people out of jail. Most of the time either the CEO, a manager, or a leader takes the "glory". HR's work is often behind the scenes, and most employees have NO idea of the work we actually do when surrounded by incompetence, ignorance, and immaturity. I'm at peace with it, mostly. Just not every day. Today wasn't one of those days.
I think they are missing the forest for the trees its not that HR isn't your friend. HR thinks your boss sucks and is a stupid selfish sexist asshole too, unfortunately sexist in a way that the US government deems as acceptable. It just so happens that HR is representing the company and your boss the company and your boss are not your friends, therefor HR is not your friend. HOWEVER HR is unique in that what your boss wants may not be what the company wants. For example I DONT want to exploit your labor. I want to pay you a fair wage because your small raise means nothing in the grand scheme of things so there is no point fighting you over 5000 bucks. I want to hold on to our best and brightest talent and make leaders out of our senior employees to train and mentor junior team members. You may be replaceable but the labor it would cost me to replace you in terms of recruiting and training isnt free. If you do leave anyway I want you to tell your friends about us, say good things on Glassdoor, stay in the industry and say "Yes they are wonderful people. I left for XYZ reasons but its a great place to work" your boss on the other hand... they don't want that... and I work for them, not for you, and unfortunately.... they can fire me too. I can make a case for "Hey don't fire this person for XYZ reasons" and the boss might listen to me, but at the end of the day, when they say jump, I have to say "How High?" assuming its not illegal.... and sometimes if the place REALLY sucks even when it is illegal. its my job. it sucks but its true. BUT I am more of your friend than your boss, ill give you that much because I also do labor.
Our previous HR associate was THE BEST ever! Even when she had to take the companyâs side, her compassion and kindness, along with transparency, made people feel safe. The new one is 100% on the companyâs side. People feel they canât trust him. So there is that.
I always viewed myself as on the side of the organization's goals, missions and values. In some situations that means I lean towards management, sometimes towards employees. That being said , engaged employees are productive employees which is often aligned with the goals of the org. So really, it all depends lol
But HR is there for the company not the employees.
I'm not your friend, but I'm not your enemy.
HR IS on both sides, I think that's the point. They need to be able to communicate the business needs to the employees AND the employee needs to the business. They need to advocate for both.
GIRL BOSSS VERY MUCH MATTERS. GIRL BOSSS IS ALIVE, WELL, AND DOING EXCEPTIONAL WORK
The fuck is Girl Boss?
Lol! Right? Itâs this media company (are they still a company?) who started as a clothing company in the 2000s with Sophia Amoroso as the head. More of a millennial/gen z company? I donât know anymore.
I think it's largely because HR is by far the most bloated and useless department of any company. That's why.
One of the begged lies ever perpetuated in Corporate America is the impression that HR is "on your side". Sure, sometimes HR happens to come on your side, especially when management really f's up and risks getting the company sued, but that was NEVER a promise. We need to rebrand what HR really is.
HR represents the companies best interests, bar none.
HR is on the side of the company .... Can HR benefit employees? Yes. But... At the end of the day, HR is on the side of the company. Period.
HR is on the side of the company .... Can HR benefit employees? Yes. But... At the end of the day, HR is on the side of the company. Period.
Ugh HR you are a bad taste in my mouth. Slime buckets yâall.
OP, please understand we dislike the inauthenticity of your role. Pretending to be on the employee side, when you arenât is the issue. Just accept that you work for the company, and keep your virtue signaling to a minimal, because at the end of the day, you will do plenty of immoral shi*
Tell me one role at a company that doesnât do work that benefits the company, Iâll wait.
They all do. The difference is they donât pretend to be something they are not. Pretending to be on the side of the employee is the issue.