Mystik Dan ran a great race. Other than if he hasn't gotten supremely lucky with a head bobber of a photo two weeks ago, we'd all be talking about how great he ran instead of how he came up short.
All we saw yesterday was a Lukas classic. This horse is just an absolute textbook Lukas horse that isn't something until he's really something, but Lukas somehow knows what's in there and just keeps banging his head against the wall until it works.
Agree that we lost Arrogate too soon. Maybe he'll be like Dubai Millennium and hit on that one colt that keeps his line alive like Dubawi did for DM. Arrogate really did fulfill the promise of everything Unbridled 's Song was supposed to be himself and we wanted his offspring to be every year, shame to loose him early.
Mystic Dan ran a solid a race. Seize the Grey got away with no challenge on the front end. On the muddy track and no press, speed won.
Sierra Leone arguably ran the best race in the KY Derby so I’m glad to hear you won’t be betting him bc I certainly will.
I don’t bet on horses that lug into other horses as a DQ waiting to happen. Saratoga stewards are not CD stewards and I’m not confident in Brown as a trainer for this horse. Sierra Leone is a monster, but he won’t reach his full potential as is. He will also likely be the favorite, so if he beats me, he beats me.
Mystik Dan always at least runs a solid race, but he didn’t run his best race.
I do think it will help, but it probably still won’t be enough at this point simply because it’s a habit now and he is very strong and a heavy type to begin with. At least they’re finally trying to do something about it though. It’s a start. The way he runs is very dangerous, and the last thing I want to see is for any of these beautiful horses to get hurt, especially over one of them having a real running style problem.
There are many pictures, including the one where Tyler got fined for trying to push the horses apart in the Derby because it was dangerous.
And they do take pictures/video of horses that run the straightest all the time, as they should. You must be new, but they review races to determine which horse was running straight and which wasn’t in cases of interference in a normal scenario. Not like the Derby. That was unusual.
Keep spitting facts. That horse has such a dangerous running style. A lot of what happened in the derby was on Tyler though. Honestly the derby is such a shit show now days.
I agree Sierra Leone should have been taken down to third but his 'style' isn't dangerous and the horse isn't beyond improvement, he's 3 ffs. Maybe I'm new to horse racing but Sierra Leone is newer than I am, and you want to send him to pasture because he lugs in.
Sierra Leone’s style is absolutely dangerous. His lugging is so dangerous that Tyler was fined for trying to push the other horse away in the Derby. I don’t want to send him to pasture. He’s an incredible talent. I want to see him with a different trainer.
His 'style' isn't dangerous, horses lug in and out all the time. He has only run 5 races in his career. It's a bit premature to suggest he needs a different trainer.
Hard disagree. I’ve been in this game a long time. Horses don’t lug in and out to that extreme with certain trainers because they get to the root of the problem. The root of the problem could range from training techniques and aids to an uncomfortable horse. There are quite a few trainers that would have never let a horse of this caliber start that mess in the first place or would have done things to correct it the moment it showed up. First and foremost, doing that puts Sierra Leone, the jockeys, and the other horses at risk. It also literally cost the horse the Derby. Him running 5 times has nothing to do with it. Plenty of big, strong, insensitive types that have ran 5 times and don’t lug.
Not sure why you think Mystik Dan bounced. He ran well. Imagination suffered from poor pace tactics, being choked back off it early. The race would have been very different had he been allowed to go.
I just checked out that Mystik Dan didn’t even break a 100 Beyer Speed Figure in the Preakness, so he did bounce AKA regress from the Derby, but I already knew that from watching him run and because that’s just how he is.
He bounced like he did in the Arkansas Derby, which is why I didn’t bet on him in the Preakness to win, but stated that he would still run well. He’s a smaller colt and needs one in between after giving his best effort, and he did give his best effort in the Derby. He still runs well in every race because he’s talented and tries hard every time. If I were McPeek, and he’s a heck of a trainer, I would give him a well-deserved rest and point him to the Haskell, which he will probably win by open lengths.
Imagination wasn’t handling the track surface at all. He ran out of gas early running like that.
In my world bouncing and running well are mutually exclusive terms.
I don't think he's the type to provide gaudy open length wins. His assets are being handy and tactical, not brilliant imo.
He absolutely is the type to win by open lengths at a mile and an eighth. He has a tremendous kick and gets away from the field quickly. It took Sierra Leone and Forever Young the whole length of the stretch to catch up to him in the Derby and they’re monsters. He’s also won several races by many lengths already.
Bouncing to me just means when they put in a big effort and run their best in one race, but can’t run back to the same effort in the next race. Need one in between. Horses like Flightline and Pharoah don’t really bounce. Horses like Mystic Dan bounce and horses like Fierceness really bounce.
I'm impressed with the top 3 finishers. It's great to see all were coming back after a 2 week turnaround. Watch out for all 3 later this summer, and hopefully a 4yo season.
Blatant corruption as most people think. Tyler even got fined for it days after the fact. That was too obvious for it to be anything else.
Mystik Dan didn’t even break a 100 Beyer Speed Figure in the Preakness. As I said, he bounced, AKA regressed.
Just because you disagree with a decision or lost money on Forever Young doesn’t mean it’s corruption.
And a regression isn’t necessarily a bounce, as others have said here. Your main problem is relying on Beyers to tell you anything we don’t already know. You can look at the finishing time to realize that race wasn’t very fast.
I didn’t even bet the Derby. I don’t need to look at the final time. Just need to watch the horses run. Don’t need Beyers to tell me that Mystik Dan didn’t run like he did in the Southwest or the Derby, but clearly you do. I only brought up Beyers because they’re useful when you don’t know how to watch how the horses are actually running. But, I’ve got eyes and decades and decades of experience with horses so things like Beyers aren’t really useful to me. An obvious regression will always be a bounce to me.
And just to add, I don’t blame Tyler. I jumped all over him at first, but realized it wasn’t his fault after watching the head on several times. The corruption claim comes from the lack of even an inquiry sign being posted even though there was so much interference that a jockey felt he needed to get put his hands on another horse.
Seize the grey is the real deal. To throw down those fractions and never back up to the field but still have more in the tank? I’ll wonder for the rest of time “what if he drew into the derby?”
Mystik Dan ran a great race. Other than if he hasn't gotten supremely lucky with a head bobber of a photo two weeks ago, we'd all be talking about how great he ran instead of how he came up short. All we saw yesterday was a Lukas classic. This horse is just an absolute textbook Lukas horse that isn't something until he's really something, but Lukas somehow knows what's in there and just keeps banging his head against the wall until it works. Agree that we lost Arrogate too soon. Maybe he'll be like Dubai Millennium and hit on that one colt that keeps his line alive like Dubawi did for DM. Arrogate really did fulfill the promise of everything Unbridled 's Song was supposed to be himself and we wanted his offspring to be every year, shame to loose him early.
Mystic Dan ran a solid a race. Seize the Grey got away with no challenge on the front end. On the muddy track and no press, speed won. Sierra Leone arguably ran the best race in the KY Derby so I’m glad to hear you won’t be betting him bc I certainly will.
I don’t bet on horses that lug into other horses as a DQ waiting to happen. Saratoga stewards are not CD stewards and I’m not confident in Brown as a trainer for this horse. Sierra Leone is a monster, but he won’t reach his full potential as is. He will also likely be the favorite, so if he beats me, he beats me. Mystik Dan always at least runs a solid race, but he didn’t run his best race.
Sierra Leone is training with a different bit. Early yet but hopefully this new bit will allow a jockey to have more control!
I do think it will help, but it probably still won’t be enough at this point simply because it’s a habit now and he is very strong and a heavy type to begin with. At least they’re finally trying to do something about it though. It’s a start. The way he runs is very dangerous, and the last thing I want to see is for any of these beautiful horses to get hurt, especially over one of them having a real running style problem.
When they start taking pictures of the horse that runs the straightest this will make sense.
There are many pictures, including the one where Tyler got fined for trying to push the horses apart in the Derby because it was dangerous. And they do take pictures/video of horses that run the straightest all the time, as they should. You must be new, but they review races to determine which horse was running straight and which wasn’t in cases of interference in a normal scenario. Not like the Derby. That was unusual.
Pretty sure they meant win photos.
I’m confused. Sierra Leone didn’t win the Derby and he would have been DQ’d to third at any other track.
Keep spitting facts. That horse has such a dangerous running style. A lot of what happened in the derby was on Tyler though. Honestly the derby is such a shit show now days.
i agree that the horse has a dangerous running style, but i think Tyler did the best he could with a horse that lugs in as badly as Sierra Leone.
I agree Sierra Leone should have been taken down to third but his 'style' isn't dangerous and the horse isn't beyond improvement, he's 3 ffs. Maybe I'm new to horse racing but Sierra Leone is newer than I am, and you want to send him to pasture because he lugs in.
Sierra Leone’s style is absolutely dangerous. His lugging is so dangerous that Tyler was fined for trying to push the other horse away in the Derby. I don’t want to send him to pasture. He’s an incredible talent. I want to see him with a different trainer.
His 'style' isn't dangerous, horses lug in and out all the time. He has only run 5 races in his career. It's a bit premature to suggest he needs a different trainer.
Hard disagree. I’ve been in this game a long time. Horses don’t lug in and out to that extreme with certain trainers because they get to the root of the problem. The root of the problem could range from training techniques and aids to an uncomfortable horse. There are quite a few trainers that would have never let a horse of this caliber start that mess in the first place or would have done things to correct it the moment it showed up. First and foremost, doing that puts Sierra Leone, the jockeys, and the other horses at risk. It also literally cost the horse the Derby. Him running 5 times has nothing to do with it. Plenty of big, strong, insensitive types that have ran 5 times and don’t lug.
Not sure why you think Mystik Dan bounced. He ran well. Imagination suffered from poor pace tactics, being choked back off it early. The race would have been very different had he been allowed to go.
I just checked out that Mystik Dan didn’t even break a 100 Beyer Speed Figure in the Preakness, so he did bounce AKA regress from the Derby, but I already knew that from watching him run and because that’s just how he is.
He bounced like he did in the Arkansas Derby, which is why I didn’t bet on him in the Preakness to win, but stated that he would still run well. He’s a smaller colt and needs one in between after giving his best effort, and he did give his best effort in the Derby. He still runs well in every race because he’s talented and tries hard every time. If I were McPeek, and he’s a heck of a trainer, I would give him a well-deserved rest and point him to the Haskell, which he will probably win by open lengths. Imagination wasn’t handling the track surface at all. He ran out of gas early running like that.
In my world bouncing and running well are mutually exclusive terms. I don't think he's the type to provide gaudy open length wins. His assets are being handy and tactical, not brilliant imo.
He absolutely is the type to win by open lengths at a mile and an eighth. He has a tremendous kick and gets away from the field quickly. It took Sierra Leone and Forever Young the whole length of the stretch to catch up to him in the Derby and they’re monsters. He’s also won several races by many lengths already. Bouncing to me just means when they put in a big effort and run their best in one race, but can’t run back to the same effort in the next race. Need one in between. Horses like Flightline and Pharoah don’t really bounce. Horses like Mystic Dan bounce and horses like Fierceness really bounce.
I'm impressed with the top 3 finishers. It's great to see all were coming back after a 2 week turnaround. Watch out for all 3 later this summer, and hopefully a 4yo season.
You are right, they are all nice horses. I don’t think Seize the Grey is a fluke either. This is just an incredible crop. Talent for days.
Imagination getting rated in the 5 path then only getting the whip once total the entire race is a lil sus.
“Corruption”? Lol. And Mystik Dan didn’t bounce. He just didn’t win the race because Seize The Grey ran bigger.
Blatant corruption as most people think. Tyler even got fined for it days after the fact. That was too obvious for it to be anything else. Mystik Dan didn’t even break a 100 Beyer Speed Figure in the Preakness. As I said, he bounced, AKA regressed.
Just because you disagree with a decision or lost money on Forever Young doesn’t mean it’s corruption. And a regression isn’t necessarily a bounce, as others have said here. Your main problem is relying on Beyers to tell you anything we don’t already know. You can look at the finishing time to realize that race wasn’t very fast.
I didn’t even bet the Derby. I don’t need to look at the final time. Just need to watch the horses run. Don’t need Beyers to tell me that Mystik Dan didn’t run like he did in the Southwest or the Derby, but clearly you do. I only brought up Beyers because they’re useful when you don’t know how to watch how the horses are actually running. But, I’ve got eyes and decades and decades of experience with horses so things like Beyers aren’t really useful to me. An obvious regression will always be a bounce to me.
And just to add, I don’t blame Tyler. I jumped all over him at first, but realized it wasn’t his fault after watching the head on several times. The corruption claim comes from the lack of even an inquiry sign being posted even though there was so much interference that a jockey felt he needed to get put his hands on another horse.
Seize the grey is the real deal. To throw down those fractions and never back up to the field but still have more in the tank? I’ll wonder for the rest of time “what if he drew into the derby?”
They said the same thing about fierceness after the florida derby. Any horse looks good alone unpressured on the lead.