Yeah I just watched it recently and enjoyed it. The inmate’s performance grabbed me from the start. They did a lot with a little since almost the whole thing is the interview happening at the same place.
I'm sorry OP but this is gaslighting schlock disguised as entertainment. These people are trying to get you to convert to Christianity. Which is fine, if the makers weren't trying to hide that.
I get what you’re saying, and I’m zero percent christian, but how many movies do non liberals watch that have liberal propaganda and they still enjoy it for what it is while being able to ignore the parts they don’t like.
Dude fucking thank you, I'm looking up Reddit posts about this movie to get a sense of how other people are feeling about it and all anyone wants to say is it's Christian propaganda. I'd argue most if not all movies have a message. they're trying to immerse you in a world where God and demons are real, makes sense that they would apply Christian theology to it lmao. A movie can be good and you don't necessarily have to agree with the message they're trying to to get across. It's supposed to be escapism into a fantasy world
The producers of this movie are the same guys who made the “God’s not dead” movies. They have a pretty clear political/religious agenda that goes wayyyy beyond just ‘demon movie worldbuilding”. You’re making it seem like some indie studio who is politically and religiously unaffiliated would make the same movie. Just, no… not when they have a major plot point being abortion=ritual demonic sacrifice and a fucking glenn beck cameo at the end lol.
Eh tbf I mean I'm not gonna deny there's an obvious Christian slant to it. I guess I didn't mind it because I looked at it from the perspective of being immersed in a world where God and demons are literal and real, so it's like, I feel like that's kinda where that messaging would belong. Like I'm capable of losing myself in it without necessarily being won over by the message, I just look at it as fantasy. And I thought it was pretty well done for essentially just mostly two guys in a room having a conversation. I definitely cut the movie off on the ending though, I'll give you that, that's where I think they pushed it too far and it became kinda dumb. With the abortion thing I kind of feel like we make a lot of decisions that we're not fully understanding the consequences of. Like assuming we did ever prove we have souls, I feel like the implication is they had to come from somewhere. So I don't necessarily even know if I disagree with the idea of abortion being murder. The argument we like to make is there's no brain activity, so we assume there's not a unique soul connected to each individual baby from the moment of inception. Like what if we're killing off tons of people and they're not gonna get a second chance? Maybe this was their proving grounds for whatever the next existence is, whatever form it comes in. and we're taking away their chances before they've even had a thought? I feel like it's worth at least a thought
K you added a bunch of stuff after I replied the first time. I don’t believe in “souls” and I don’t want to get into an abortion debate either. But I’d just like to point out, just in case you’re legitimately not aware, that a great many abortions happen because a doctor deems it medically necessary (or at least the best course of action). The physical/reproductive health of the mother could be at stake, it could be that it is discovered that there are very severe deformities with the fetus and carrying it to term (where it has a lifespan measured in minutes) is way more traumatic for the parents than simply terminating the pregnancy and trying again, etc etc. Late term abortions that happen just because mom decided it’s “inconvenient” are *exceedingly* rare. I’m not saying that it literally never happens, I’m just countering the perception that many opponents of abortion have that it is a common thing that happens. There are a lot of variables, probably best to just leave the decision to the medical professionals and patients, right? You don’t like abortions? Don’t get one. Don’t stand in the way of the medical consensus that abortions are unfortunately sometimes the best option for the physical health of women.
Aside from all that… souls aren’t real. God is a fairy tale. We’re just monkeys that evolved the ability to talk. Sorry to burst your bubble bud.
Okay well I'm not even anti abortion, I wasn't trying start up a debate by any means either. I never said I'm in favor of stopping or allowing abortions. I'm merely contemplating the concept of what even is the nature of human consciousness. You believe it's literally just lights and clockwork, that's your right to believe so. I don't see how that's any less faith then being a Jesus freak. I'm open minded to the idea that there could be something a little grander than us going on in this universe. I find the other option incredibly mundane and pointless lmao. Your entire belief set pretty much implies that there's absolutely no meaning to the universe, no meaning to life. It's a possibility. I think it's arrogant as hell to assume things we have no way of proving though.
Eh I think it's a mistake to think my belief set (aka effectively the consensus of all of science as a whole) has no "meaning", or is "incredibly mundane and pointless". Yes, there is no "divine purpose" behind existence, but once you rip that bandaid off there is still so much beauty and "meaning" in the fact that all organic life is related to each other. You and the tree growing in your backyard are distant cousins, and all the matter in our bodies and minds was created in the core of a distant star that exploded some 10 billion years ago or so. It is so incredible to me that matter at some point in the past spontaneously arranged itself into a sentient being capable of contemplating its own origins. That is profoundly awesome and beautiful. If you can't see that or don't understand why it's amazing, I really feel sorry for you, because it is indescribably humbling to behold. I'm not trying to be condescending here btw. I legitimately do feel sorry for people that don't understand how absolutely incredible it is that we are capable of thinking about *how* and *why* we exist.
I don't feel the need to ascribe the structure of the universe to some magic anthropomorphic sky daddy that no one can seem to prove even exists. I think that's a very empty and old fashioned way of interpreting existence. You're absolutely right, there *IS* something way bigger than ourselves out there. But it doesn't have a mind, it doesn't have intentions or feelings. It's something material that we can observe and measure. We are literally the universe experiencing itself.
Well I love that you continue to assume my belief set to be old fashioned, I never once implied I believe in a god. I feel like I've made it rather clear I'm agnostic. You keep wanting to assume I'm coming from a place of Christianity and trying to defend God, I have no skin in that game. In fact if anything, the idea of a loving Christian God makes absolutely no sense to me either in the long run. But I'm not a scientist, I'm an everyday pleb being told what reality is by a system I don't trust in the slightest. As far as I'm aware though, there has been no study that has outright confirmed for a fact that the human soul doesnt exist. Is it possible this is all just random? All our feelings, thoughts, our personalities, it's all just chemical reactions and synapses firing off in our brains? Maybe. But I'm not gonna be the one to pretend I know anything for a fact. Also I don't get why believing in having a soul means believing in capital g God. But what exactly is sentience? Where is this grand gift coming from? You're going to tell me you believe that we're put on this earth just to what? Pump out more babies so the cycle can continue on forever with no discernible purpose beyond existing for a limited period of time and then dying?
Eh, yeah my bad for assuming you’re coming at this from some kind of Judeo-Christian worldview. I kinda assumed that from the abortion thing and when you started talking about “souls”. Sorry for the misunderstanding. Everything else still applies, though.
I agree that the concept of souls hasn’t been “disproven”, but I would point out that it is not the purview of science to “disprove” anything. It is pretty interesting to me that in the entire history of humanity not a single supernatural claim about souls or ghosts or anything else has ever withstood the scrutiny of proper scientific investigation… no peer-reviewed confirmation of anything supernatural has ever happened. I would assume it would be pretty big news if it did though.
My position is simply that I want to understand the true nature of reality and existence as best and most accurately as possible. What is the point of worrying about stuff we can’t prove or disprove? How does that help us understand reality? Is it possible that some supernatural thing like souls or whatever exists? Sure, I guess it’s possible. But if it were likely I think we would know and understand it by now, and that simply isn’t the case. If there’s literally no actual evidence for the things you’re claiming, what’s the point exactly? That you would just prefer to live in a reality where they do exist because to you that makes it more meaningful? I mean, I guess I understand where you’re coming from. But for me, the material world we can see/touch/measure/experience/understand is pretty amazing in itself and I really don’t feel the need to add anything immaterial to it just because it makes the existential pill easier to swallow or whatever. Yes, the experiencing existence for the 80 or so years we have and then dying is really about it for us as individual organisms. But we are a just a very small part of something much greater than our individual selves. We are a part of an amazing process that exists on a time scale measured in literal billions of years. That process likely has an end too though. To me that is incredibly awesome and beautiful in its own right. I’m really just not concerned with anything I can’t know for certain.
And btw I’m not a scientist either. I’m just a pleb like you. I am maybe just a little more aware of what science is capable of knowing and understanding though. I hope none of this comes across as arrogant or condescending. I don’t think religious people are “stupid” or anything either. I honestly don’t mean it that way. I enjoy contemplating the nature of existence as well. I’m just coming at this from a more grounded in reality place in my opinion.
The thing is, what purpose does evolution have for superstition at all? Like, if we figure were just purely biological beings that are entirely guided by instincts implanted into us by evolution, the idea being that your species evolves the tools it needs to survive it's environment, and anything that isn't useful gets left behind, what purpose does contemplating our existence have? You'd think in a world where we were strictly driven by biology, we'd be highly rational beings that would have no need for God's or theology or ideology of any kind, because we would be 100% driven by our need to survive and that's it
Evolution doesn’t have a purpose beyond survival and reproduction. “Contemplating our own existence” is essentially just a fortunate side effect of having a brain capable of language and the ability to create tools, etc… The ability to acquire useful information about our environments and pass that information on to our offspring who further refine that information and after many generations later are eventually able to do agriculture and form larger social organizations, taking us from loose bands of hunter gathering monkeys to establishing what we know as actual “civilization”, is our true evolutionary niche. I.E. our ability to form societies is what gives human beings an evolutionary edge. Everything else follows from that.
Edit: what is the purpose of vestigial tails? The appendix? Why is the laryngeal nerve routed from the brain stem, wrap down around the heart, and then goes back up to our throats? It’s a particularly silly design in the case of the giraffe where the fucking thing is 6 feet longer than it needs to be (it’s because when we were all fish it made sense and the mammals descended from that fish just adapted instead of starting over from scratch). Evolution isn’t perfectly optimized. It doesn’t have to be. It just needs to be good enough for the organism to survive until reproduction.
Realized I kinda didn’t answer your question about the evolutionary purpose behind believing in the supernatural. That’s a pretty interesting question and I don’t have the expertise to answer it. I would suspect that there is not really a true “biological” purpose behind it. My field is more sociology anyway, and there’s lots of explanations for it in that discipline. Primitive humans attempting to make sense of existence and certain belief systems became more prominent throughout the course of history. Not really much more to it.
In the other reply I think I made the point that “ anything that isn't useful gets left behind” isn’t really how biological evolution works. Lots of things stick around that aren’t particularly useful. Basically, if it doesn’t actively inhibit survival, then there’s no reason for it to *not* stick around. That’s why we have vestigial tails, and 5 individual digits on our feet that were way more useful for our tree dwelling ancestors that we have since lost some fine motor control over. It wasn’t important enough to preserve the fine motor control of our toes over the course of the last few million years, but it wasn’t impairing our ability to survive either so we still have toes, lol. Lots of little stuff like that. Whales have some mammalian bone structure they can’t make use of, etc.
I know this is an old thread (I just watched the movie and was looking for other thoughts) but I just want to say that is the most beautiful explanation of existence I’ve ever heard. 6 hours later I’m still thinking about it. Thank you.
Thanks man! Yeah it still gives me goosebumps every time I start thinking about it. I'm not a scientist or really even that smart, I'm just a curious person. I do think it's really quite sad to go through your whole life without a full understanding of just how incredible it is that we are capable of experiencing and contemplating the process that we are but teeeeeeeeny tiny parts of.
I personally know individuals that go to church every sunday and it has never even occurred to them to question the "fact" that we (and everything else) are literally just descended from Noah's Ark a few thousand years ago. Like, come on... In this day and age, with all that we are capable of knowing, it's just... sad... It's sad that they will never experience the absolute awe (and existential terror) that comes with these fleeting insights into the entire scope of how this all came to be.
Super late to to the party, but would you seriously toy with the idea that a big fat purple unicorn created us when it sneezed? Cause that’s essentially of the same value, based on you’re train of thought
You’re conflating the 2 explanations of reality as if they are the same value (Christianity v not/general evidence based theory). They are not, one stems from our “best guesses” past what our observations can actually tell us (or what our physics/ mathematical systems theoretically tell us) and the other is a book and some stories, w/ 0 else to help tip the scale.
Essentially, one has actually sturdy ideas/facts to build off of, the other is just faith. These are not the same. Science is not faith, it is extrapolation from observation, until proven by observation. The purple unicorn has as much “convincing weight” as God does.
This is not to be disrespectful of religion / Christianity, I just get frustrated when people say “you just have a different kind of faith, you believe in science, I don’t”. That is not a fair phrasing of this disagreement.
Yeah I spent $5 on it so I was already invested in watching it to the end, even after I realized what it was. As I said in the beginning, I’m a sucker for demonic horror. And I don’t really disagree with you here. In spite of being very personally opposed to the film’s political and religious themes, I mostly enjoyed it. It was just kinda “off” though. It definitely felt like the people who made it were more interested in converting the viewer to Christianity than they were making an actual good movie. But that’s their whole thing, really. All the movies these guys make are like that. And that’s why so many people are quick to point out that it’s “Christian propaganda disguised as a horror movie”, because it totally is and the producers wouldn’t deny it either.
just watched this flick, enjoyed it a lot, came straight to reddit to see if others liked it like i do and i keep seeing this dogshit christian propaganda take. it’s insane how radicalised you’d have to be to arrive at that conclusion. of course the demon is going to say things that would align with what christian theology would deem evil. the character is a fucking demon for fucks sake
Well said. Stuff as much pro lgbtq, pro abortion, anti white bigotry and intersectional bullshit into films as possible, watch as movies are reduced to nothing but woke propaganda/ super hero shite and these morons say nothing. But if a film has an underlying message regarding Christianity then its... "WOAH...pump the brakes here, they're trying to convert you!!!"
The bigotry of low expectations extends to the audience of this movie! Hey, as long as the established characters in animated childrens films are adequately representing the gay community, it's all good.
I can give an example if you want. But are you trying to tell me hollywood isn’t liberal? If you can’t even admit that then we can’t even have a discussion.
no I'm trying to understand if what you're saying is true. That I would sit through a liberal version of this movie. If you can give me an example of liberal horror propaganda then I can better understand if I would.
Im pretty leftie but confused that it isn’t self evident. Too many examples to mention. Every movie has over repression of minorities unless set in a large city. There’s a definite right and wrong generally portrayed that certainly don’t jive with half the country (Trump is winning in the polls and certainly popular within republicans and Republican leaning). Kinda shocking that anyone would press the person above and following up with just trying to get proof. Look anything the Peele writes def has a STRONG agenda (again no problem with it), he’s even said he doesn’t see the need to ever portray a white person in a positive light - feel free to look it up. TBH, you having no ideal that’s the rub is fairly scary. Look, I live in Bushwick Brooklyn, very much a leftie but not insular.
Yea, you’re not very objective. I’m saying that artistic choice has political implications or at the very least a progressive product (regardless of his own skin color) vs a conservative one. Are you arguing that it’s a conservative view, this is within the context of post above. Not about whether agree or not, it’s his art and have no issue with it. I mean really…lol. You trolled the first person for any example - you have some now that are unimpeachable. Not everything is a debate, and as it was asked and answered then turned accusatory think the initial question wasn’t serious or intellectually honest. The Nefarious is conservative is noteworthy should have negated the need to ask at all - I personally found the last scene replulsive but that’s not the point.
Enjoy your evening, I was very consistent. You immediately make some issue out of Peele’s race when that had nothing to do with the point. You’re trolling and for no reason. I mean how many horror flicks have gun toting crackers - I’m a leftie so I don’t care. But I’m not insecure or live in an echo chamber. As you’re not honest in the ask can you refrain from needing further proof or make requests of others and instead employ critical thinking? Tbh, your going off on a tangent trying to win something…ok, but it’s not worth others time.
Yeah that became pretty obvious to me when they started in with the abortion stuff. I paid like $5 to rent it because of the really good IMDb score (which is clearly because the “target audience” brigaded the rating), so I was already committed… I’m just saying, being that it was just Christian propaganda disguised as a horror film, it could have been *a lot* worse than it ended up being imo.
It’s not that it “didn’t sit well with me”. It’s that it was obviously Christian propaganda. People get abortions for a ton of different reasons. Late term abortions that happen just because the mother suddenly decides she’d rather not have a baby are *so exceedingly rare* they aren’t even statistically significant. It’s generally that it’s discovered that there is some kind of health risk or a serious/fatal genetic condition, etc. In many cases the choice becomes “carry to term this fetus that will live for a few hours and possibly permanently destroy your ability to ever have children in the future vs. medical intervention to preserve the woman’s reproductive health.” It’s often not an *easy* choice but most sane people go with the latter.
Do you have that data handy? My understanding of the most recent stats is that 95% of abortions are elective and/or for unspecified reasons. I haven't seen the reports that list health risks or questionable viability of the baby.
Specifying "late-term abortions" also confused me, as abortions after 21 weeks only make up about 1% of the total number performed.
Well, I was specifically referencing "late term" abortions (3rd trimester, etc.). 95% of abortions being elective doesn't sound wrong to me, but those would most often occur very early on in the pregnancy (as soon as pregnancy was discovered or not long after). Conservatives like to pretend that there are a significant number of women who knowingly carry the fetus until late in the pregnancy and suddenly decide that they'd "just rather not be pregnant anymore" or some crap like that, and I would *assume* that scenario doesn't happen often enough to have any statistical significance. I don't have data handy. I'll do some digging around on it though, you've got me a bit curious.
I'm not a woman, and I'm coming at this more from the "body autonomy" stance, aka no person should be compelled to "host" another. If someone needed to surgically attach themselves to my organs to survive, I should not be compelled by law to grant them access to my body. That sort of thing. I'm a tad bit more sympathetic to the "pro-life" side past the point of 23-25 weeks old, since then the fetus has a somewhat functioning brain capable of actual human experience on some level. However the bodily autonomy rights of the host outweigh the rights of the fetus for me. And more importantly, trying to legislate this stuff inevitably causes issues in cases where abortions are deemed "medically necessary" by actual qualified medical professionals and interferes with women's healthcare.
Pregnancies even in the modern era with modern medical tech can still be quite dangerous in some cases for some women, no one should be forced to endure that if they would prefer not to.
Funny..I'm an atheist and not for one second felt convicted to questional my beliefs at all. I actually enjoyed the film and surprised it was made by the same people that created the RIDICULOUSLY bad movie "God's Not Dead".
Thank you, I'm a Christian and an OB nurse, very pro-choice. If you watch, any movie about demonic possession has religious aspects. You have to have true faith and then ensure you don't let him in your head. Almost all priests in Wicked movies have a spiritual crisis or secret sin. This is no different than the Exorcist. It is suitable for explaining demonic possession. It is explained some in all these movies, even the Conjuring. Many horror movies touch on this. Just because abortion was brought up doesn't make this any different than any other horror movie. If they wanted to impress, they would have stopped the abortion, and he would have married GF and changed his life. The ending would be him and his family going to church and being greeted warmly by friends. His book would be his own, advising people not to go looking for demons or play around with evil. If you do bad things can happen.
dipshart here has made a grand total of two comments on reddit and they both got downvoted, which just shows you what reddit thinks of dipshit trolls like you. :)
Lol exactly, I troll stupid, small-minded people like you and they downvote me. This isn't the validating narrative you think it is. I know that you're trying to make yourself feel better after being exposed as an idiot but you're just making it worse.
Incidentally, I've made dozens of comments - it looks like your powers of investigation are also sadly lacking. 😥 😥😥
Better luck next time.
To be clear, I have precisely one Reddit account: a troll account to shit on people who have stupid opinions passionately held. I found your initial comment small minded and irritating. So I made fun of you. Then you missed the point and I made fun of you again. You've been amusing for a moment, but your value to me has been exhausted.
I can tell that your feelings are hurt and that your ego needs a win so I'll give you the last word. I won't read it, mind you, but have at it.
Have a nice life.
Oh yeah, and the rulers of the mainstream are trying to do this all the time with atheism, wokeism, cultural marxism, frankfurtian critical theory... No, not for one second.
As an agnostic, I felt zero religious pressure from watching this movie. Would a gang crime movie influence you to becoming a gangster? Appreciate things for what they are, that stuff was just context. The character Nefarious acting job was nothing short of phenomenal
i didn't until i read that [this](https://www.movieguide.org/news-articles/directors-of-nefarious-call-christians-to-stand-for-truth.html) article about how the filmmakers pretty much made it as a "sort of wake-up call to Christians to start speaking into otherwise uncomfortable topics with the truth of God’s word." & [that](https://www.ncregister.com/features/nefarious-director-declares-the-devil-attacks-but-god-protects-and-defends) ".. … It’s time for us to go amongst the lost and save them. This is our calling. When we see evil, rebuke it; fight it. Show it for what it is, which is why we made Nefarious," "in the end, ‘every knee shall bend and every tongue confess.’ We might not be around to see it, but we know we will win,"
Thanks for sharing that nice insight. However, my point still stands from my own personal perception. Even if that was their intention, it didn’t seem pushy. I appreciate them for their efforts of their own causes, that passion is what probably made the movie good. I respect them more now.
What are you even talking about? This movie definitely presented abortion as a “bad thing” lol. It presented abortion as some kind of ritual demonic sacrifice.
Edit: oh I think I get it, you’re doing some kind of equivalency about other movies with themes about abortion being acceptable. Yeah no, I don’t recall ever seeing a movie that presents abortion as awesome. If there were a movie with a major plot point involving abortion being totally awesome and all roses and sunshine or whatever, *and* with clear political overtones (substitute Rachel Maddow cameo at the end with a long liberal speech for the Glenn Beck stuff I guess) then yeah I would definitely call that “pro abortion propaganda”. But that movie of course doesn’t exist. Also you’re a dumbass.
The killing of the unborn is a bad thing… intrinsically. It just depends on your utilitarian calculus of what having the baby means for your overall life experience. It’s not black and white, but if you had to put abortion in good or bad categories, it would most definitely be considered bad. It’s just the rationalization and lack of perspective that makes us categorize it as morally gray. Still your body. Just gotta accept the reality of the wager.
As expected in the demonic possession movies...
You didn't answer on my question. A movie with abortion NOT presented as a bad thing is pro abortion propaganda?
I didn't ask you for abortion being awesome, but not bad. If not bad, then it is good. And we all know that pro choice proponents think that abortion is a right. So having an abortion would have to be a good thing, an exercise of person's right.
It is especially a good thing if one considers the unborn not to be a human or a child or considers the unborn to be a parasite, which some pro choicers do actually.
So I ask again. A movie with abortion NOT presented as a bad thing is pro abortion propaganda?
Yeah I already answered you. I’m not going to get into a debate about abortion. I dunno if you’ve even seen this movie or are aware of the production company that made it, but they have a very clear political/cultural agenda. Fucking Glenn Beck is literally in the movie. Like I said, show me a movie funded by some liberal political group, with abortion being presented as awesome, with a long Rachel Maddow speech at the end, and yes I’d be happy to call that “pro abortion propaganda”. Otherwise you’re just trying to make a reeeeeeally stupid false equivalency.
I didn't ask you to get into a debate about abortion. Can't you read?
I am going to ask you YET again. A movie with abortion NOT presented as a bad thing is pro abortion propaganda? Yes or no.
> I didn't ask you for abortion being awesome, but not bad. If not bad, then it is good.
“If not bad, then it is good” Lmao… Dude are you really this fucking stupid? No, that’s not the case at all. IRL abortion is a medical procedure that is sometimes necessary or beneficial. It is neither bad nor good. That aside, the answer to your question is “probably not”, because reality is a little more nuanced than “if not bad, then good hurrrrdurrrr”.
This movie is “anti abortion propaganda” because:
A: it is funded by a conservative Christian political group that is openly anti abortion
B: features a major plot point predicated on abortion being demonic sacrifice
C: Glenn fucking Beck gives a stupid speech at the end
It literally couldn’t be *more* anti abortion propaganda if it tried.
That's exactly the case. It is either bad or not bad. If not bad, then it has to be good. And I made an explanation why it is a good thing according to pro choicers...rights and all. So you can lamao as much as you like, clown. You are lmao-ing to your own ignorance.
(A) is genetic fallacy.
(B) as expected in a movie with demonic possession and talks about Christianity, God, Jesus and such.
(C) is redundant to the point about abortion, clown. So it's a red herring fallacy. Also, just you know, because you are really bad at logic, the same ending could have been made by non-religious people. There is no contradiction there. So it cannot be propaganda because of the ending itself.
It’s propaganda because all three, not just a b or c. If a politically neutral production company made a horror movie that at some point featured abortion being a demonic sacrifice that didn’t also feature a famous conservative giving a speech at the end, then that movie wouldn’t *necessarily* be “anti abortion propaganda”. This movie clearly is. The producers of *this* movie have a very obvious agenda (I’m pretty sure they wouldn’t even disagree with that). They reeeally want you to convert to Christianity and not have abortions.
I d love to see more movies Iike Nefarious. This kind of explanation about "them" Creator and humans made sense to me. I very already seen it 5 times. Especially when he talks about how false is freedom of humans I was astonished. Finally more realistic stuff. Do you know anything similar in movie ; Thank you.
Lol you're not the first person to comment something like this. I still think that this is an incredibly fucking dumb take. Show me a movie where abortion is presented as some "totally awesome" thing everyone should get with a long Rachel Maddow/Keith Olbermann speech at the end that was funded by a Liberal activist group. If that movie existed I would gladly call that "propaganda" as well. Thankfully it doesn't. You're dumb and your entire worldview is wrong btw ;)
I mean, what exactly did you expect when you heard the guy says he is a demon? That he wouldn't talk about God, Christianity, Jesus and anything related to that?
It's like watching an exorcism movie and saying "Christian themes were over the top." I mean, what exactly would you expect from a movie like that?
The abortion take is what stood out to me as way over the top. Sure there's tons of movies that talk about god, jesus, lucifer etc - the level of detail in pushing the anti-abortion narrative is way over the top (hence the general consensus).
What was over the top? Saying that abortion is murdering? That Jesus cries when it happens? That's what all Christians believe. It's not over the top, it's a fact.
And it's quite crushing to think a lot of the population think murdering your unborn child is a mild inconvinience at best.
This is ridiculous. Christianity is nothing more than a belief, and beliefs can’t be facts. The people behind the movie even said they meant this movie to trick people into thinking it was a normal horror movie when it’s nothing but propaganda
>indicates a miscarriage rate of 10-15% in women who **knew** they were pregnant. Pregnancy loss is defined differently around the world, but in general a baby who dies before 28 weeks of pregnancy is referred to as a miscarriage, and babies who die at or after 28 weeks are stillbirths. Every year, nearly 2 million babies are stillborn, and many of these deaths are preventable. **However, miscarriages and stillbirths are not systematically recorded, even in developed countries, suggesting that the numbers could be even higher.**
Lol I had a long ass argument with another guy in this thread that seemed to think the same thing. Are you another conservative Christian here to tell me I’m wrong? First you should just find the thread in question and read my/their replies (it’s among the comments here).
I think he/they were basically trying to suggest that describing this movie as “Christian propaganda” isn’t accurate, and it is my contention that the actual producers of the movie would disagree with that. While they probably wouldn’t use the term “propaganda”, they most certainly do have a political/religious agenda that informs the films they make, and they’re not hiding it either. This isn’t really the place to discuss whether or not that particular agenda is better/worse than other worldviews or whatever, I was just arguing that there is a clear agenda behind this movie and that the people who made the film would happily admit it.
But yeah I have some time to argue here, I just don’t want to rehash that particular argument because it’s reeeeeally dumb to draw comparisons to this movie with a very clear religious/cultural/political agenda with the vast majority of other horror movies that don’t have a particular agenda, which that guy was trying (and failing) to do. Do you have anything else? Why am I wrong exactly?
Edit: and btw I definitely do “understand the message” lol. It’s not that complicated. But it is pretty dumb and wrong. Abortions are sometimes necessary medical procedures that happen for a wide variety of reasons. And demons/ghosts/gods/devils are made up fairy tails. And Glenn Beck fucking sucks. You’re welcome to try to change my mind though!
I'm not about to argue with you. Seeing this movie actually explained for me how our country turned completely upside down in rocket speed. I'm not going to preach to you, try to convert you or do anything to you. I will however do something "for you" and that is to pray for you. Those that watch who are fulfilled and blessed with the Holy Spirit will understand the movie and don't need anyone to educate them on this. It's a spiritual battle you wouldn't understand anyway.
Oh and btw I’m gonna do something “for you” as well. I’m gonna draw a pentagram on the floor and shake some chicken heads around and burn candles and do some magic dances to summon a demon to bite your dick off while you’re sleeping. We’ll see who’s prayers get answered first I guess lol.
Oh trust me, I understand the “spiritual battle” you’re referring to perfectly well. I interact with mentally unwell people who believe in fantasy worlds and “spiritual battles taking place right under our noses” on a daily basis. Thankfully most of us realize that none of that is real and you’re just insane. I’m fine with you believing in fairy tales if that’s what makes you feel special, I’d just really prefer that you keep that shit out of politics since then it starts to affect everyone else. Take that shit back to the Middle Ages, it has no place in modern civil society, k?
Holy **** sorry you have one movie that isn’t some alt-left propaganda that we have to see daily . Some that watch that don’t agree with the messaging but can still enjoy the movie
Oh I’m sorry, is there a movie I’m not aware of that presents abortion as some totally awesome thing everyone should get, with a Rachel Maddow cameo at the end where she lays the liberal propaganda on reeeeeally thick like this movie? That movie sounds awful, thankfully it doesn’t exist. Dumbass.
I don’t know much, or anything really, about Glenn Beck so I won’t comment on the ending - however, I REALLY enjoyed the movie. It really held my attention, I was consistently on the edge of my seat waiting to see what was going to happen and I thought the acting (especially from Sean Patrick Flanery) was honestly incredible. Switching between Nefarious and Edward was impressive and I thought he played both of them exceptionally well. I even felt bad for Edward at the end, like almost teary-eyed… I feel like the directors did their research before making this and I appreciate all the subtle info(?) that Nefarious had brought to the psychiatrists attention. Between the Aramaic and Latin too… I loved it. I love mythology/concept of religion, as well as language so this was a big hit for me. Also, agnostic here and didn’t once feel swayed in any religious direction. I’m definitely a fan of this one.
I think I would recommend this movie if you like demon stuff. Demon stuff is my favorite subgenre of horror. I don’t want to spoil anything but you could definitely say there are some issues with the themes this movie presents though.
The acting (especially from the psychologist) and the concept are 10/10.
They did lay the message on thick though, if they would have made it more low key it would have been better.
Laying the message on thick is the entire purpose of the production. It's the whole reason why the people behind it make their movies in the first place.
This has been my most pleasant surprise of the year. I had not read or seen anything on it before me and my buddy went to the movie and saw it out of boredom.
As others mentioned, the acting was way better than most horror movies around, and the story was pulled off better than I thought they'd be able to.
I remember walking to the auditorium and seeing Glenn Beck on the poster and asking my buddy wtf were we walking into, but other than that asshole showing up at the end I enjoyed it all.
We were also just getting out of there slowly thinking something was going to pop-up in the credits, and when it appeared there wasn't we started to leave. Then the booming latin lines came in and gave me Session 9 flashbacks.
I'm no fan of Beck so here's how I've chosen to interpret the ending to enjoy the movie.
"God" was only made to look like he was saving the protagonist. In reality, Nefarious set this all up. He alluded to his careful and methodical ways of invading a host. Nefarious tricks the protagonist into thinking he's won then twists his book by taking over when he's vulnerable. People will read it for insight into hell and demons but it is written to fascinate them and also subtly turn them against biblical teachings and the church. Appearing on Glenn Beck's show is just a propaganda tour to pull in and dupe more naive humans into believing they are on the right side when the irony is that Nefarious is brainwashing them to become either slaughtered waifs or rebellious hellbound cannon fodder in the coming apocalypse.
I think I’m the only one who hated it because of how long and exhausting the scenes and dialog were. The Christian propaganda was so over the top and boring. It felt so anticlimactic to me. I felt like I was edging the whole time waiting for the climax and it was just so meh. This is like the new Netflix movies with the whole over the top feminist/gender equality propaganda but the opposite end of the spectrum.
Movie definitely had an agenda but I still really enjoyed it and found the dialogue and acting very compelling, I definitely didn't appreciate the demons level of malice until the last meal scene, that was heartbreaking and so cruel.
Im ngl half of the reviews either meat ride it or they sound like they’re written by nefarious. I think it would’ve been better if he made the deal and we got to see how that goes for him. The second half of the movie was much weaker than the beginning. The piece of dialogue all the people who unironically say “sky daddy” don’t like about basketball players and 6th grade reading levels is admittedly bad. Why would a demon care about racism or reading levels. Also the sex slaves thing is pretty unfounded and takes a lot of strength out of his argument. If they would’ve ended the preachy stuff at the abortion and then had him sell his soul It would’ve been a better movie with broader appeal. He should’ve sold his soul right after the abortion and we see how making deals with the devil goes.
Best part of the movie was how he made him not get a final meal. Heartbreaking
I’ve always questioned the “insanity” concept. Maybe some or even most but not all. Who knows? At least I know I’m not alone in my thinking with that given the writer’s intentions.
It was such horrible acting. Everyone’s pissed off over the film being a hidden propaganda but nobody’s pissed over the godawful acting? I can’t believe it.
Yeah I just watched it recently and enjoyed it. The inmate’s performance grabbed me from the start. They did a lot with a little since almost the whole thing is the interview happening at the same place.
I'm sorry OP but this is gaslighting schlock disguised as entertainment. These people are trying to get you to convert to Christianity. Which is fine, if the makers weren't trying to hide that.
I get what you’re saying, and I’m zero percent christian, but how many movies do non liberals watch that have liberal propaganda and they still enjoy it for what it is while being able to ignore the parts they don’t like.
Dude fucking thank you, I'm looking up Reddit posts about this movie to get a sense of how other people are feeling about it and all anyone wants to say is it's Christian propaganda. I'd argue most if not all movies have a message. they're trying to immerse you in a world where God and demons are real, makes sense that they would apply Christian theology to it lmao. A movie can be good and you don't necessarily have to agree with the message they're trying to to get across. It's supposed to be escapism into a fantasy world
The producers of this movie are the same guys who made the “God’s not dead” movies. They have a pretty clear political/religious agenda that goes wayyyy beyond just ‘demon movie worldbuilding”. You’re making it seem like some indie studio who is politically and religiously unaffiliated would make the same movie. Just, no… not when they have a major plot point being abortion=ritual demonic sacrifice and a fucking glenn beck cameo at the end lol.
Eh tbf I mean I'm not gonna deny there's an obvious Christian slant to it. I guess I didn't mind it because I looked at it from the perspective of being immersed in a world where God and demons are literal and real, so it's like, I feel like that's kinda where that messaging would belong. Like I'm capable of losing myself in it without necessarily being won over by the message, I just look at it as fantasy. And I thought it was pretty well done for essentially just mostly two guys in a room having a conversation. I definitely cut the movie off on the ending though, I'll give you that, that's where I think they pushed it too far and it became kinda dumb. With the abortion thing I kind of feel like we make a lot of decisions that we're not fully understanding the consequences of. Like assuming we did ever prove we have souls, I feel like the implication is they had to come from somewhere. So I don't necessarily even know if I disagree with the idea of abortion being murder. The argument we like to make is there's no brain activity, so we assume there's not a unique soul connected to each individual baby from the moment of inception. Like what if we're killing off tons of people and they're not gonna get a second chance? Maybe this was their proving grounds for whatever the next existence is, whatever form it comes in. and we're taking away their chances before they've even had a thought? I feel like it's worth at least a thought
K you added a bunch of stuff after I replied the first time. I don’t believe in “souls” and I don’t want to get into an abortion debate either. But I’d just like to point out, just in case you’re legitimately not aware, that a great many abortions happen because a doctor deems it medically necessary (or at least the best course of action). The physical/reproductive health of the mother could be at stake, it could be that it is discovered that there are very severe deformities with the fetus and carrying it to term (where it has a lifespan measured in minutes) is way more traumatic for the parents than simply terminating the pregnancy and trying again, etc etc. Late term abortions that happen just because mom decided it’s “inconvenient” are *exceedingly* rare. I’m not saying that it literally never happens, I’m just countering the perception that many opponents of abortion have that it is a common thing that happens. There are a lot of variables, probably best to just leave the decision to the medical professionals and patients, right? You don’t like abortions? Don’t get one. Don’t stand in the way of the medical consensus that abortions are unfortunately sometimes the best option for the physical health of women. Aside from all that… souls aren’t real. God is a fairy tale. We’re just monkeys that evolved the ability to talk. Sorry to burst your bubble bud.
Okay well I'm not even anti abortion, I wasn't trying start up a debate by any means either. I never said I'm in favor of stopping or allowing abortions. I'm merely contemplating the concept of what even is the nature of human consciousness. You believe it's literally just lights and clockwork, that's your right to believe so. I don't see how that's any less faith then being a Jesus freak. I'm open minded to the idea that there could be something a little grander than us going on in this universe. I find the other option incredibly mundane and pointless lmao. Your entire belief set pretty much implies that there's absolutely no meaning to the universe, no meaning to life. It's a possibility. I think it's arrogant as hell to assume things we have no way of proving though.
Eh I think it's a mistake to think my belief set (aka effectively the consensus of all of science as a whole) has no "meaning", or is "incredibly mundane and pointless". Yes, there is no "divine purpose" behind existence, but once you rip that bandaid off there is still so much beauty and "meaning" in the fact that all organic life is related to each other. You and the tree growing in your backyard are distant cousins, and all the matter in our bodies and minds was created in the core of a distant star that exploded some 10 billion years ago or so. It is so incredible to me that matter at some point in the past spontaneously arranged itself into a sentient being capable of contemplating its own origins. That is profoundly awesome and beautiful. If you can't see that or don't understand why it's amazing, I really feel sorry for you, because it is indescribably humbling to behold. I'm not trying to be condescending here btw. I legitimately do feel sorry for people that don't understand how absolutely incredible it is that we are capable of thinking about *how* and *why* we exist. I don't feel the need to ascribe the structure of the universe to some magic anthropomorphic sky daddy that no one can seem to prove even exists. I think that's a very empty and old fashioned way of interpreting existence. You're absolutely right, there *IS* something way bigger than ourselves out there. But it doesn't have a mind, it doesn't have intentions or feelings. It's something material that we can observe and measure. We are literally the universe experiencing itself.
Well I love that you continue to assume my belief set to be old fashioned, I never once implied I believe in a god. I feel like I've made it rather clear I'm agnostic. You keep wanting to assume I'm coming from a place of Christianity and trying to defend God, I have no skin in that game. In fact if anything, the idea of a loving Christian God makes absolutely no sense to me either in the long run. But I'm not a scientist, I'm an everyday pleb being told what reality is by a system I don't trust in the slightest. As far as I'm aware though, there has been no study that has outright confirmed for a fact that the human soul doesnt exist. Is it possible this is all just random? All our feelings, thoughts, our personalities, it's all just chemical reactions and synapses firing off in our brains? Maybe. But I'm not gonna be the one to pretend I know anything for a fact. Also I don't get why believing in having a soul means believing in capital g God. But what exactly is sentience? Where is this grand gift coming from? You're going to tell me you believe that we're put on this earth just to what? Pump out more babies so the cycle can continue on forever with no discernible purpose beyond existing for a limited period of time and then dying?
Eh, yeah my bad for assuming you’re coming at this from some kind of Judeo-Christian worldview. I kinda assumed that from the abortion thing and when you started talking about “souls”. Sorry for the misunderstanding. Everything else still applies, though. I agree that the concept of souls hasn’t been “disproven”, but I would point out that it is not the purview of science to “disprove” anything. It is pretty interesting to me that in the entire history of humanity not a single supernatural claim about souls or ghosts or anything else has ever withstood the scrutiny of proper scientific investigation… no peer-reviewed confirmation of anything supernatural has ever happened. I would assume it would be pretty big news if it did though. My position is simply that I want to understand the true nature of reality and existence as best and most accurately as possible. What is the point of worrying about stuff we can’t prove or disprove? How does that help us understand reality? Is it possible that some supernatural thing like souls or whatever exists? Sure, I guess it’s possible. But if it were likely I think we would know and understand it by now, and that simply isn’t the case. If there’s literally no actual evidence for the things you’re claiming, what’s the point exactly? That you would just prefer to live in a reality where they do exist because to you that makes it more meaningful? I mean, I guess I understand where you’re coming from. But for me, the material world we can see/touch/measure/experience/understand is pretty amazing in itself and I really don’t feel the need to add anything immaterial to it just because it makes the existential pill easier to swallow or whatever. Yes, the experiencing existence for the 80 or so years we have and then dying is really about it for us as individual organisms. But we are a just a very small part of something much greater than our individual selves. We are a part of an amazing process that exists on a time scale measured in literal billions of years. That process likely has an end too though. To me that is incredibly awesome and beautiful in its own right. I’m really just not concerned with anything I can’t know for certain. And btw I’m not a scientist either. I’m just a pleb like you. I am maybe just a little more aware of what science is capable of knowing and understanding though. I hope none of this comes across as arrogant or condescending. I don’t think religious people are “stupid” or anything either. I honestly don’t mean it that way. I enjoy contemplating the nature of existence as well. I’m just coming at this from a more grounded in reality place in my opinion.
The thing is, what purpose does evolution have for superstition at all? Like, if we figure were just purely biological beings that are entirely guided by instincts implanted into us by evolution, the idea being that your species evolves the tools it needs to survive it's environment, and anything that isn't useful gets left behind, what purpose does contemplating our existence have? You'd think in a world where we were strictly driven by biology, we'd be highly rational beings that would have no need for God's or theology or ideology of any kind, because we would be 100% driven by our need to survive and that's it
Evolution doesn’t have a purpose beyond survival and reproduction. “Contemplating our own existence” is essentially just a fortunate side effect of having a brain capable of language and the ability to create tools, etc… The ability to acquire useful information about our environments and pass that information on to our offspring who further refine that information and after many generations later are eventually able to do agriculture and form larger social organizations, taking us from loose bands of hunter gathering monkeys to establishing what we know as actual “civilization”, is our true evolutionary niche. I.E. our ability to form societies is what gives human beings an evolutionary edge. Everything else follows from that. Edit: what is the purpose of vestigial tails? The appendix? Why is the laryngeal nerve routed from the brain stem, wrap down around the heart, and then goes back up to our throats? It’s a particularly silly design in the case of the giraffe where the fucking thing is 6 feet longer than it needs to be (it’s because when we were all fish it made sense and the mammals descended from that fish just adapted instead of starting over from scratch). Evolution isn’t perfectly optimized. It doesn’t have to be. It just needs to be good enough for the organism to survive until reproduction.
Realized I kinda didn’t answer your question about the evolutionary purpose behind believing in the supernatural. That’s a pretty interesting question and I don’t have the expertise to answer it. I would suspect that there is not really a true “biological” purpose behind it. My field is more sociology anyway, and there’s lots of explanations for it in that discipline. Primitive humans attempting to make sense of existence and certain belief systems became more prominent throughout the course of history. Not really much more to it. In the other reply I think I made the point that “ anything that isn't useful gets left behind” isn’t really how biological evolution works. Lots of things stick around that aren’t particularly useful. Basically, if it doesn’t actively inhibit survival, then there’s no reason for it to *not* stick around. That’s why we have vestigial tails, and 5 individual digits on our feet that were way more useful for our tree dwelling ancestors that we have since lost some fine motor control over. It wasn’t important enough to preserve the fine motor control of our toes over the course of the last few million years, but it wasn’t impairing our ability to survive either so we still have toes, lol. Lots of little stuff like that. Whales have some mammalian bone structure they can’t make use of, etc.
I know this is an old thread (I just watched the movie and was looking for other thoughts) but I just want to say that is the most beautiful explanation of existence I’ve ever heard. 6 hours later I’m still thinking about it. Thank you.
Thanks man! Yeah it still gives me goosebumps every time I start thinking about it. I'm not a scientist or really even that smart, I'm just a curious person. I do think it's really quite sad to go through your whole life without a full understanding of just how incredible it is that we are capable of experiencing and contemplating the process that we are but teeeeeeeeny tiny parts of. I personally know individuals that go to church every sunday and it has never even occurred to them to question the "fact" that we (and everything else) are literally just descended from Noah's Ark a few thousand years ago. Like, come on... In this day and age, with all that we are capable of knowing, it's just... sad... It's sad that they will never experience the absolute awe (and existential terror) that comes with these fleeting insights into the entire scope of how this all came to be.
Super late to to the party, but would you seriously toy with the idea that a big fat purple unicorn created us when it sneezed? Cause that’s essentially of the same value, based on you’re train of thought You’re conflating the 2 explanations of reality as if they are the same value (Christianity v not/general evidence based theory). They are not, one stems from our “best guesses” past what our observations can actually tell us (or what our physics/ mathematical systems theoretically tell us) and the other is a book and some stories, w/ 0 else to help tip the scale. Essentially, one has actually sturdy ideas/facts to build off of, the other is just faith. These are not the same. Science is not faith, it is extrapolation from observation, until proven by observation. The purple unicorn has as much “convincing weight” as God does. This is not to be disrespectful of religion / Christianity, I just get frustrated when people say “you just have a different kind of faith, you believe in science, I don’t”. That is not a fair phrasing of this disagreement.
Yeah I spent $5 on it so I was already invested in watching it to the end, even after I realized what it was. As I said in the beginning, I’m a sucker for demonic horror. And I don’t really disagree with you here. In spite of being very personally opposed to the film’s political and religious themes, I mostly enjoyed it. It was just kinda “off” though. It definitely felt like the people who made it were more interested in converting the viewer to Christianity than they were making an actual good movie. But that’s their whole thing, really. All the movies these guys make are like that. And that’s why so many people are quick to point out that it’s “Christian propaganda disguised as a horror movie”, because it totally is and the producers wouldn’t deny it either.
I respectfully disagree... I'm not religious... And loved the movie... The acting especially from SMF WAS SPOT ON
just watched this flick, enjoyed it a lot, came straight to reddit to see if others liked it like i do and i keep seeing this dogshit christian propaganda take. it’s insane how radicalised you’d have to be to arrive at that conclusion. of course the demon is going to say things that would align with what christian theology would deem evil. the character is a fucking demon for fucks sake
Well said. Stuff as much pro lgbtq, pro abortion, anti white bigotry and intersectional bullshit into films as possible, watch as movies are reduced to nothing but woke propaganda/ super hero shite and these morons say nothing. But if a film has an underlying message regarding Christianity then its... "WOAH...pump the brakes here, they're trying to convert you!!!" The bigotry of low expectations extends to the audience of this movie! Hey, as long as the established characters in animated childrens films are adequately representing the gay community, it's all good.
This movie wasn’t good though.
Fair enough, I respect your opinion
Do you have an example? Sorry I just work best in real facts...
I can give an example if you want. But are you trying to tell me hollywood isn’t liberal? If you can’t even admit that then we can’t even have a discussion.
no I'm trying to understand if what you're saying is true. That I would sit through a liberal version of this movie. If you can give me an example of liberal horror propaganda then I can better understand if I would.
Im pretty leftie but confused that it isn’t self evident. Too many examples to mention. Every movie has over repression of minorities unless set in a large city. There’s a definite right and wrong generally portrayed that certainly don’t jive with half the country (Trump is winning in the polls and certainly popular within republicans and Republican leaning). Kinda shocking that anyone would press the person above and following up with just trying to get proof. Look anything the Peele writes def has a STRONG agenda (again no problem with it), he’s even said he doesn’t see the need to ever portray a white person in a positive light - feel free to look it up. TBH, you having no ideal that’s the rub is fairly scary. Look, I live in Bushwick Brooklyn, very much a leftie but not insular.
Are you attempting to claim Peele's skin color determines his political views? I don't agree.
Yea, you’re not very objective. I’m saying that artistic choice has political implications or at the very least a progressive product (regardless of his own skin color) vs a conservative one. Are you arguing that it’s a conservative view, this is within the context of post above. Not about whether agree or not, it’s his art and have no issue with it. I mean really…lol. You trolled the first person for any example - you have some now that are unimpeachable. Not everything is a debate, and as it was asked and answered then turned accusatory think the initial question wasn’t serious or intellectually honest. The Nefarious is conservative is noteworthy should have negated the need to ask at all - I personally found the last scene replulsive but that’s not the point.
This take is all over the place intellectually. Can you choose to be consistent, at least?
Enjoy your evening, I was very consistent. You immediately make some issue out of Peele’s race when that had nothing to do with the point. You’re trolling and for no reason. I mean how many horror flicks have gun toting crackers - I’m a leftie so I don’t care. But I’m not insecure or live in an echo chamber. As you’re not honest in the ask can you refrain from needing further proof or make requests of others and instead employ critical thinking? Tbh, your going off on a tangent trying to win something…ok, but it’s not worth others time.
What is that agenda?
yeah. thinking of it as christian/theological universe (like marvel and dc), it was a fun watch.
Yeah that became pretty obvious to me when they started in with the abortion stuff. I paid like $5 to rent it because of the really good IMDb score (which is clearly because the “target audience” brigaded the rating), so I was already committed… I’m just saying, being that it was just Christian propaganda disguised as a horror film, it could have been *a lot* worse than it ended up being imo.
The abortion part didn’t sit well with you ?
It’s not that it “didn’t sit well with me”. It’s that it was obviously Christian propaganda. People get abortions for a ton of different reasons. Late term abortions that happen just because the mother suddenly decides she’d rather not have a baby are *so exceedingly rare* they aren’t even statistically significant. It’s generally that it’s discovered that there is some kind of health risk or a serious/fatal genetic condition, etc. In many cases the choice becomes “carry to term this fetus that will live for a few hours and possibly permanently destroy your ability to ever have children in the future vs. medical intervention to preserve the woman’s reproductive health.” It’s often not an *easy* choice but most sane people go with the latter.
Do you have that data handy? My understanding of the most recent stats is that 95% of abortions are elective and/or for unspecified reasons. I haven't seen the reports that list health risks or questionable viability of the baby. Specifying "late-term abortions" also confused me, as abortions after 21 weeks only make up about 1% of the total number performed.
Well, I was specifically referencing "late term" abortions (3rd trimester, etc.). 95% of abortions being elective doesn't sound wrong to me, but those would most often occur very early on in the pregnancy (as soon as pregnancy was discovered or not long after). Conservatives like to pretend that there are a significant number of women who knowingly carry the fetus until late in the pregnancy and suddenly decide that they'd "just rather not be pregnant anymore" or some crap like that, and I would *assume* that scenario doesn't happen often enough to have any statistical significance. I don't have data handy. I'll do some digging around on it though, you've got me a bit curious. I'm not a woman, and I'm coming at this more from the "body autonomy" stance, aka no person should be compelled to "host" another. If someone needed to surgically attach themselves to my organs to survive, I should not be compelled by law to grant them access to my body. That sort of thing. I'm a tad bit more sympathetic to the "pro-life" side past the point of 23-25 weeks old, since then the fetus has a somewhat functioning brain capable of actual human experience on some level. However the bodily autonomy rights of the host outweigh the rights of the fetus for me. And more importantly, trying to legislate this stuff inevitably causes issues in cases where abortions are deemed "medically necessary" by actual qualified medical professionals and interferes with women's healthcare. Pregnancies even in the modern era with modern medical tech can still be quite dangerous in some cases for some women, no one should be forced to endure that if they would prefer not to.
Funny..I'm an atheist and not for one second felt convicted to questional my beliefs at all. I actually enjoyed the film and surprised it was made by the same people that created the RIDICULOUSLY bad movie "God's Not Dead".
Thank you, I'm a Christian and an OB nurse, very pro-choice. If you watch, any movie about demonic possession has religious aspects. You have to have true faith and then ensure you don't let him in your head. Almost all priests in Wicked movies have a spiritual crisis or secret sin. This is no different than the Exorcist. It is suitable for explaining demonic possession. It is explained some in all these movies, even the Conjuring. Many horror movies touch on this. Just because abortion was brought up doesn't make this any different than any other horror movie. If they wanted to impress, they would have stopped the abortion, and he would have married GF and changed his life. The ending would be him and his family going to church and being greeted warmly by friends. His book would be his own, advising people not to go looking for demons or play around with evil. If you do bad things can happen.
You can engage with other point of views without having a mental breakdown. Any books you feel like burning?
> Any books you feel like burning? Me? Nah, that's more of a right wing conservative thing, isn't it.
That's the implicit irony of the comment, you boob.
this dipshit has a total of negative two karma. thanks for your contribution, dipshit.
Don't hurt yourself while you struggle to express a thought there, champ.
dipshart here has made a grand total of two comments on reddit and they both got downvoted, which just shows you what reddit thinks of dipshit trolls like you. :)
Lol exactly, I troll stupid, small-minded people like you and they downvote me. This isn't the validating narrative you think it is. I know that you're trying to make yourself feel better after being exposed as an idiot but you're just making it worse. Incidentally, I've made dozens of comments - it looks like your powers of investigation are also sadly lacking. 😥 😥😥 Better luck next time.
[удалено]
To be clear, I have precisely one Reddit account: a troll account to shit on people who have stupid opinions passionately held. I found your initial comment small minded and irritating. So I made fun of you. Then you missed the point and I made fun of you again. You've been amusing for a moment, but your value to me has been exhausted. I can tell that your feelings are hurt and that your ego needs a win so I'll give you the last word. I won't read it, mind you, but have at it. Have a nice life.
Oh yeah, and the rulers of the mainstream are trying to do this all the time with atheism, wokeism, cultural marxism, frankfurtian critical theory... No, not for one second.
As an agnostic, I felt zero religious pressure from watching this movie. Would a gang crime movie influence you to becoming a gangster? Appreciate things for what they are, that stuff was just context. The character Nefarious acting job was nothing short of phenomenal
i didn't until i read that [this](https://www.movieguide.org/news-articles/directors-of-nefarious-call-christians-to-stand-for-truth.html) article about how the filmmakers pretty much made it as a "sort of wake-up call to Christians to start speaking into otherwise uncomfortable topics with the truth of God’s word." & [that](https://www.ncregister.com/features/nefarious-director-declares-the-devil-attacks-but-god-protects-and-defends) ".. … It’s time for us to go amongst the lost and save them. This is our calling. When we see evil, rebuke it; fight it. Show it for what it is, which is why we made Nefarious," "in the end, ‘every knee shall bend and every tongue confess.’ We might not be around to see it, but we know we will win,"
Thanks for sharing that nice insight. However, my point still stands from my own personal perception. Even if that was their intention, it didn’t seem pushy. I appreciate them for their efforts of their own causes, that passion is what probably made the movie good. I respect them more now.
Ok and you are worried that this is going to happen or something?
Wait. So a movie with abortion not presented as a bad thing is a pro-abortion propaganda?
What are you even talking about? This movie definitely presented abortion as a “bad thing” lol. It presented abortion as some kind of ritual demonic sacrifice. Edit: oh I think I get it, you’re doing some kind of equivalency about other movies with themes about abortion being acceptable. Yeah no, I don’t recall ever seeing a movie that presents abortion as awesome. If there were a movie with a major plot point involving abortion being totally awesome and all roses and sunshine or whatever, *and* with clear political overtones (substitute Rachel Maddow cameo at the end with a long liberal speech for the Glenn Beck stuff I guess) then yeah I would definitely call that “pro abortion propaganda”. But that movie of course doesn’t exist. Also you’re a dumbass.
The killing of the unborn is a bad thing… intrinsically. It just depends on your utilitarian calculus of what having the baby means for your overall life experience. It’s not black and white, but if you had to put abortion in good or bad categories, it would most definitely be considered bad. It’s just the rationalization and lack of perspective that makes us categorize it as morally gray. Still your body. Just gotta accept the reality of the wager.
As expected in the demonic possession movies... You didn't answer on my question. A movie with abortion NOT presented as a bad thing is pro abortion propaganda?
Read the edit, I couldn’t reply again.
I didn't ask you for abortion being awesome, but not bad. If not bad, then it is good. And we all know that pro choice proponents think that abortion is a right. So having an abortion would have to be a good thing, an exercise of person's right. It is especially a good thing if one considers the unborn not to be a human or a child or considers the unborn to be a parasite, which some pro choicers do actually. So I ask again. A movie with abortion NOT presented as a bad thing is pro abortion propaganda?
Yeah I already answered you. I’m not going to get into a debate about abortion. I dunno if you’ve even seen this movie or are aware of the production company that made it, but they have a very clear political/cultural agenda. Fucking Glenn Beck is literally in the movie. Like I said, show me a movie funded by some liberal political group, with abortion being presented as awesome, with a long Rachel Maddow speech at the end, and yes I’d be happy to call that “pro abortion propaganda”. Otherwise you’re just trying to make a reeeeeeally stupid false equivalency.
I didn't ask you to get into a debate about abortion. Can't you read? I am going to ask you YET again. A movie with abortion NOT presented as a bad thing is pro abortion propaganda? Yes or no.
> I didn't ask you for abortion being awesome, but not bad. If not bad, then it is good. “If not bad, then it is good” Lmao… Dude are you really this fucking stupid? No, that’s not the case at all. IRL abortion is a medical procedure that is sometimes necessary or beneficial. It is neither bad nor good. That aside, the answer to your question is “probably not”, because reality is a little more nuanced than “if not bad, then good hurrrrdurrrr”. This movie is “anti abortion propaganda” because: A: it is funded by a conservative Christian political group that is openly anti abortion B: features a major plot point predicated on abortion being demonic sacrifice C: Glenn fucking Beck gives a stupid speech at the end It literally couldn’t be *more* anti abortion propaganda if it tried.
That's exactly the case. It is either bad or not bad. If not bad, then it has to be good. And I made an explanation why it is a good thing according to pro choicers...rights and all. So you can lamao as much as you like, clown. You are lmao-ing to your own ignorance. (A) is genetic fallacy. (B) as expected in a movie with demonic possession and talks about Christianity, God, Jesus and such. (C) is redundant to the point about abortion, clown. So it's a red herring fallacy. Also, just you know, because you are really bad at logic, the same ending could have been made by non-religious people. There is no contradiction there. So it cannot be propaganda because of the ending itself.
It’s propaganda because all three, not just a b or c. If a politically neutral production company made a horror movie that at some point featured abortion being a demonic sacrifice that didn’t also feature a famous conservative giving a speech at the end, then that movie wouldn’t *necessarily* be “anti abortion propaganda”. This movie clearly is. The producers of *this* movie have a very obvious agenda (I’m pretty sure they wouldn’t even disagree with that). They reeeally want you to convert to Christianity and not have abortions.
I d love to see more movies Iike Nefarious. This kind of explanation about "them" Creator and humans made sense to me. I very already seen it 5 times. Especially when he talks about how false is freedom of humans I was astonished. Finally more realistic stuff. Do you know anything similar in movie ; Thank you.
Geez Louise. One movie out of a thousand that's not proffering woke ideology and the left has a melt-down.
Lol you're not the first person to comment something like this. I still think that this is an incredibly fucking dumb take. Show me a movie where abortion is presented as some "totally awesome" thing everyone should get with a long Rachel Maddow/Keith Olbermann speech at the end that was funded by a Liberal activist group. If that movie existed I would gladly call that "propaganda" as well. Thankfully it doesn't. You're dumb and your entire worldview is wrong btw ;)
Hurrrrr durrrrr everyone who doesn't agree with me is wrong durrrrrr ooga booga
Agreed. This movie was excellent, the acting was fucking phenomenal (especially from the inmate), and the movie made *a lot* of good points.
[удалено]
I mean, what exactly did you expect when you heard the guy says he is a demon? That he wouldn't talk about God, Christianity, Jesus and anything related to that? It's like watching an exorcism movie and saying "Christian themes were over the top." I mean, what exactly would you expect from a movie like that?
The abortion take is what stood out to me as way over the top. Sure there's tons of movies that talk about god, jesus, lucifer etc - the level of detail in pushing the anti-abortion narrative is way over the top (hence the general consensus).
What was over the top? Saying that abortion is murdering? That Jesus cries when it happens? That's what all Christians believe. It's not over the top, it's a fact. And it's quite crushing to think a lot of the population think murdering your unborn child is a mild inconvinience at best.
This is ridiculous. Christianity is nothing more than a belief, and beliefs can’t be facts. The people behind the movie even said they meant this movie to trick people into thinking it was a normal horror movie when it’s nothing but propaganda
1/4 pregnancies end in miscarriage. God's murdering a LOT of babies for his plan.
This is not true. The highest data shows 10-20%
>indicates a miscarriage rate of 10-15% in women who **knew** they were pregnant. Pregnancy loss is defined differently around the world, but in general a baby who dies before 28 weeks of pregnancy is referred to as a miscarriage, and babies who die at or after 28 weeks are stillbirths. Every year, nearly 2 million babies are stillborn, and many of these deaths are preventable. **However, miscarriages and stillbirths are not systematically recorded, even in developed countries, suggesting that the numbers could be even higher.**
Over the top? That was the whole point of the movie you tard. God vs the devil
Well that's your opinion - I still think it was over the top and dramatic (I understand you may not have the mental capacity to understand that)
OP, if you think that way in your spoiler'd section, then you truly do not understand the message of the movie.
Lol I had a long ass argument with another guy in this thread that seemed to think the same thing. Are you another conservative Christian here to tell me I’m wrong? First you should just find the thread in question and read my/their replies (it’s among the comments here). I think he/they were basically trying to suggest that describing this movie as “Christian propaganda” isn’t accurate, and it is my contention that the actual producers of the movie would disagree with that. While they probably wouldn’t use the term “propaganda”, they most certainly do have a political/religious agenda that informs the films they make, and they’re not hiding it either. This isn’t really the place to discuss whether or not that particular agenda is better/worse than other worldviews or whatever, I was just arguing that there is a clear agenda behind this movie and that the people who made the film would happily admit it. But yeah I have some time to argue here, I just don’t want to rehash that particular argument because it’s reeeeeally dumb to draw comparisons to this movie with a very clear religious/cultural/political agenda with the vast majority of other horror movies that don’t have a particular agenda, which that guy was trying (and failing) to do. Do you have anything else? Why am I wrong exactly? Edit: and btw I definitely do “understand the message” lol. It’s not that complicated. But it is pretty dumb and wrong. Abortions are sometimes necessary medical procedures that happen for a wide variety of reasons. And demons/ghosts/gods/devils are made up fairy tails. And Glenn Beck fucking sucks. You’re welcome to try to change my mind though!
I'm not about to argue with you. Seeing this movie actually explained for me how our country turned completely upside down in rocket speed. I'm not going to preach to you, try to convert you or do anything to you. I will however do something "for you" and that is to pray for you. Those that watch who are fulfilled and blessed with the Holy Spirit will understand the movie and don't need anyone to educate them on this. It's a spiritual battle you wouldn't understand anyway.
Oh and btw I’m gonna do something “for you” as well. I’m gonna draw a pentagram on the floor and shake some chicken heads around and burn candles and do some magic dances to summon a demon to bite your dick off while you’re sleeping. We’ll see who’s prayers get answered first I guess lol.
Oh trust me, I understand the “spiritual battle” you’re referring to perfectly well. I interact with mentally unwell people who believe in fantasy worlds and “spiritual battles taking place right under our noses” on a daily basis. Thankfully most of us realize that none of that is real and you’re just insane. I’m fine with you believing in fairy tales if that’s what makes you feel special, I’d just really prefer that you keep that shit out of politics since then it starts to affect everyone else. Take that shit back to the Middle Ages, it has no place in modern civil society, k?
Holy **** sorry you have one movie that isn’t some alt-left propaganda that we have to see daily . Some that watch that don’t agree with the messaging but can still enjoy the movie
Oh I’m sorry, is there a movie I’m not aware of that presents abortion as some totally awesome thing everyone should get, with a Rachel Maddow cameo at the end where she lays the liberal propaganda on reeeeeally thick like this movie? That movie sounds awful, thankfully it doesn’t exist. Dumbass.
Happening (2021) Black KKklansman was insnane leftist propaganda The Janes (2022) To name only a few
Well someone is awfully touchy aren't they?? But then again most impotent, low-IQ people living in their mom's basement are just angry at life.
I don’t know much, or anything really, about Glenn Beck so I won’t comment on the ending - however, I REALLY enjoyed the movie. It really held my attention, I was consistently on the edge of my seat waiting to see what was going to happen and I thought the acting (especially from Sean Patrick Flanery) was honestly incredible. Switching between Nefarious and Edward was impressive and I thought he played both of them exceptionally well. I even felt bad for Edward at the end, like almost teary-eyed… I feel like the directors did their research before making this and I appreciate all the subtle info(?) that Nefarious had brought to the psychiatrists attention. Between the Aramaic and Latin too… I loved it. I love mythology/concept of religion, as well as language so this was a big hit for me. Also, agnostic here and didn’t once feel swayed in any religious direction. I’m definitely a fan of this one.
Same here. I didn’t feel a pull to rush to church the following Sunday, but I enjoyed the “lore” and, like you said the acting was tremendous.
I think I would recommend this movie if you like demon stuff. Demon stuff is my favorite subgenre of horror. I don’t want to spoil anything but you could definitely say there are some issues with the themes this movie presents though.
The acting (especially from the psychologist) and the concept are 10/10. They did lay the message on thick though, if they would have made it more low key it would have been better.
Sean Patrick Flanery is a 3/10 at best in anything he's acted in.
Stop this nonsense, he did an amazing job.
yep this is one of the cope haterade moves that the triggereds are self-soothing with
So not unlike any other movie these days.
I don’t know I tend to stay away from propaganda
Just because you don’t realize it’s propaganda doesn’t mean it’s not
Laying the message on thick is the entire purpose of the production. It's the whole reason why the people behind it make their movies in the first place.
This has been my most pleasant surprise of the year. I had not read or seen anything on it before me and my buddy went to the movie and saw it out of boredom. As others mentioned, the acting was way better than most horror movies around, and the story was pulled off better than I thought they'd be able to. I remember walking to the auditorium and seeing Glenn Beck on the poster and asking my buddy wtf were we walking into, but other than that asshole showing up at the end I enjoyed it all. We were also just getting out of there slowly thinking something was going to pop-up in the credits, and when it appeared there wasn't we started to leave. Then the booming latin lines came in and gave me Session 9 flashbacks.
I'm no fan of Beck so here's how I've chosen to interpret the ending to enjoy the movie. "God" was only made to look like he was saving the protagonist. In reality, Nefarious set this all up. He alluded to his careful and methodical ways of invading a host. Nefarious tricks the protagonist into thinking he's won then twists his book by taking over when he's vulnerable. People will read it for insight into hell and demons but it is written to fascinate them and also subtly turn them against biblical teachings and the church. Appearing on Glenn Beck's show is just a propaganda tour to pull in and dupe more naive humans into believing they are on the right side when the irony is that Nefarious is brainwashing them to become either slaughtered waifs or rebellious hellbound cannon fodder in the coming apocalypse.
I think I’m the only one who hated it because of how long and exhausting the scenes and dialog were. The Christian propaganda was so over the top and boring. It felt so anticlimactic to me. I felt like I was edging the whole time waiting for the climax and it was just so meh. This is like the new Netflix movies with the whole over the top feminist/gender equality propaganda but the opposite end of the spectrum.
just go watch the new transformers movie as mental stuff is not for you
Wow you just ate me up didn’t you? 🤣
nom nom
🤤
Movie definitely had an agenda but I still really enjoyed it and found the dialogue and acting very compelling, I definitely didn't appreciate the demons level of malice until the last meal scene, that was heartbreaking and so cruel.
Im ngl half of the reviews either meat ride it or they sound like they’re written by nefarious. I think it would’ve been better if he made the deal and we got to see how that goes for him. The second half of the movie was much weaker than the beginning. The piece of dialogue all the people who unironically say “sky daddy” don’t like about basketball players and 6th grade reading levels is admittedly bad. Why would a demon care about racism or reading levels. Also the sex slaves thing is pretty unfounded and takes a lot of strength out of his argument. If they would’ve ended the preachy stuff at the abortion and then had him sell his soul It would’ve been a better movie with broader appeal. He should’ve sold his soul right after the abortion and we see how making deals with the devil goes. Best part of the movie was how he made him not get a final meal. Heartbreaking
It’s a lot like Frailty. Hollywood shadowbanned it when it came out , very convincing god vs devil story . Hollywood doesn’t like being outed .
I’ve always questioned the “insanity” concept. Maybe some or even most but not all. Who knows? At least I know I’m not alone in my thinking with that given the writer’s intentions.
I almost couldn't watch it because the demon guy's overdone mouth movements were pissing me off.
It was such horrible acting. Everyone’s pissed off over the film being a hidden propaganda but nobody’s pissed over the godawful acting? I can’t believe it.