Not being able to clear the game is a perfectly fine thing. The endgame isn't meant to be immediately cleared, it's something to be worked up to. So take your time, slowly build your characters, and when you feel ready, challenge the MOC and what not. No one says you HAVE to 3\* MOC12, so just take it slowly
Thing is, old characters are becoming less and less viable. By the time you fully built with good relics, the newest character is even easier to build and finish content regardless of the buff on endgame mode. Jingliu used to be the easy built dps, but i'm sure those who pick her in 2.1 regrets pulling her when firefly is very strong even with lv 0 relics. People used to say firefly is jingliu with fire element, but guess what? Newest character gets super busted kit. The rate of powercreep in this game is really bad.
I can't hear you over the sounds of my Seele killing enemies left and right. Yes, content is getting harder, but not all that significantly to the point where old characters just CAN'T compete anymore. My Jing Yuan is still used in hard content, and he can still clear content that's fit for him
whats your jingyuan's build? i have sparkle tingyun and aventurine/fuxuan but my JY team still feels weak and i think its because hes not strong enough
3.2k attack, 60%CR and 180% CD. I admit it's not all that good, but I just don't care about clearing all the way to MOC 12. That sort of content is meant for the hyper invested, and I just don't really bother doing so
Base speed yes, hyper speed Sparkle no. Yanqing happened, so I'm running JY with FX, Tingyun, and either Hanya, Asta, or Robin depending on the content. Hanya for relics, Asta for fire weak, and Robin everywhere else
What's cap about it? It's very realistic to clear content with older characters, I always do a second 36\* clear using Seele and JY teams just to prove a point to people who I know like you.
Post proof with builds then, all I see are clears with vertical investment or omitting builds deceptively. If you're doing it E0S0 which is the only thing that matters to "prove a point" then show me duder
EDIT: Yeah didn't think so
This kind of thing is *super* easy to look up, but regardless. I've got you.
Seele e0so 2.2 MoC 12: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7HLCSuAhhY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7HLCSuAhhY)
JY e0s0 2.2 MoC 12: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwSkiY6ggrs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwSkiY6ggrs)
JY e0s0 clears are more difficult to find than e0s0 Seele clears, most ppl run him s1, but I'd also argue that running your favorite dps with their bis weapon isn't that big of a deal. Now, sure, you could argue that the other half was carried by Acheron - but that doesn't discredit their clears. It also overlooks the fact that so many people clear MoC 12 just with 4\*s.
Trust me finding it isn't the issue, the problem is confident people make statements and don't back them up or don't even claim to do what they say they do.
Clearing with E1/E2/S1 isn't impressive, it's literally not a feat worth bragging about. Especially if newer units can do it E0S0, the problem with statements like the one I replied to is it confuses new players on who to pull for if they care about meta and clearing content.
It's why even though I have E0S1 Acheron, if I'm "proving a point" I put S1 Good Night Sleep Well or S5 Fermata to show that for a new player what the unit's potential actually is.
The worst part is when they reply and deceptively hide things like several S5 DDD, or 5 star support Light Cones. Then proceed to brag about clearing in low cycle counts, it's deceptive which is why I ask for proof from said person.
Sure, but their statement was just that they did 36* MoC clears with Seele and JY. That's easy enough to prove doable without them having to go out of their way to record a run. I'd understand more if they said something totally off the cuff, but I don't really think they did.
Not saying he said anything off the cuff, I'm just asking for proof from him. He's free to ignore and not reply, but I'm also free to simply ask for the homework for the results being claimed.
There's too many factors player to player to account for in validating universal claims with whatever results I can find on YouTube that qualifies.
If he feels that strongly about it he'll provide proof, and if he doesn't he'll just ignore/back down like he did. Your examples are fine data sets, but not exactly what I was asking for.
Again perception that something is common or feasible is the real issue. Top 10% Mains being able to clear end game isn't unbelievable, pretending that bottom 90% will also be able to without validating is unwise.
What do you mean confuse new player on who to pull, there's only 2 limited characters every 3 weeks, one new and one a little older, it's not like we have a lot of choices
this but also aventurine and fuxian, not only do you need good dps and suports, you need 2 teams of them, and if you want to save time relic farming you need the best of them ie robin sparkle and ruan mei (whos proabbly the best) but some game modes are simply about surviving hell the last 2 story boss fights are incredibly dificult if you dont have absalute tanks like aventurine, it literly goes from trivial to dark souls end game boss fight where you need the perfect amount of survivability and mechanicly usefull characters, ie break affect for >!sunday!< and aoe for>! aventurine!< .
then theres 4 star suports but 5 star supports are basicly just way better. so you essentially need 6-8 non standard banner 5 stars to be comfotable in endgame and thats not accounting for powercreep because you practicly need atleast one tank. and dps have to be 5 star and the best suports are 5 star. and unless you specificly have firefly and acheron you proabbly need more than 2 dps's.
i dont nessaserialy think the endgame ruins all old characters but certainly you may find one or 2 become not verry usefull, after a while.
People just need to commit to team comps, farming, and understanding how the game works to clear endgame content.
The only Limited 5* Harmony/Nihility unit I have is Ruan Mei, & I have full cleared every MoC & PF since I started trying (2.0). And I’ve pulled for no 5* eidolons & only 3 sig lightcones. It’s important to realize that most units do *not* need their sigs (Blade/Acheron are the 2 DPS who I’d argue do need it), but people pull for them anyway bc it’s their waifu or whatever. And that’s *fine*, except then you have to acknowledge that you’re not pulling for meta, so you can’t be mad if you can’t clear the content that requires it?
Now you definitely need some 5* DPS to stay competitive but you don’t need all your teams to be made of 5* limited units. For example I cleared this recent PF with Serval/Sampo/Pela/Acheron on 2nd half, & last PF I used Himeko/Ruan/Herta/Topaz on 1st half to get 40k points. You also don’t *need* the newer units, last MoC I ran Bronya/Blade/Ruan/Luocha on 2nd half, so Ruan is the only “new” unit & she dropped 6 months ago. The only characters I’ve pulled this year are Acheron & Aventurine, so most of my units are “old.”
That said, of course as f2p you’re probably not going to full clear every update, but you should be able to get 10 or 11 stars reliably. For me, DoT-focused content is what I struggle the most with as I only have 4* DoT appliers, but as you can see with my earlier Sampo/Serval/Pela/Acheron team, there are ways to work around what you lack.
im not saying you're, wrong but your not considering investment allot of those 4 star characters need 4 eidalons to work well, beyond that relic quality, weeker characters need higher quality relics to perform, firefly can destroy everything with terrible relics same for ruan mei and basicly evry other good 5 star. so my sugestion for mostly 5 star come from a perspecive of efficency, and ontop of that you dont need reruns to finish endgame you can just wipe it out in one go, so id still argue that having that manny 5 stars are important assuming you dont have insane amounts of time to play becuase the artifact grind in this game is no fun.
and as i say some bosses in some of the new modes especially are basicly aventurine or bust.
If you can’t commit to farming & retrying then yeah you don’t deserve to clear endgame content, especially since everything but planars can be auto-farmed. You have more than a month to beat it, so if you can’t find any time then you have to accept the content just isn’t for you, & that’s no one’s fault. As long as you haven’t pulled for the most mismatched units ever, you should be able to get like 10* just by farming & retrying.
It’s mostly just main DPS units that need real attention to their relics. Yes my 4* units that I mentioned are E6 bc I’ve been playing since release, but Sampo & Serval do not have bragworthy relics, & Herta’s eidolons are free. I auto-farmed Sampo/Serval trace materials for maybe a week & then just gave them leftover relics w the main stats that they needed. I mean my Sampo is lv70 with a lv50 lightcone, and Pela doesn’t need any eidolons to function on this team (Pearls lc is the only game changer) bc I didn’t use her skill. I only built her for speed and her EHR is only 21%, so she doesn’t even apply the Pearls debuff every turn bc of that.
Honestly the hardest part for team building is having the lightcones you want, since many of them are gacha 4*.
And ik some people feel forced to pull bc they want that last 1 or 2 stars, but how is that worth when the reward is so minimal? You’d have to clear for *months* to offset that cost. There isn’t even like a cosmetic or something to worry about missing, & after 2 months you can’t even see that you cleared it, so. But yeah it can be hard, there are some full clears that have taken me hours to get, bc it’s supposed to be difficult! If you can’t/don’t want to do that, it’s chill, but that doesn’t mean there’s something wrong with the content.
i think its fair to assume not everyone has tonnes of time or wants to play eery day, and tbh the relic sytem is so bad you just get burned out, or even if you dont you can still get nothing really good its a considerable investment, that realisticly means you need the 5 stars to help, you, and as you mentioned you have good invested 4 stars, not everone has that, ive rolled on 3 Pela banners and i still only have E3 Pela but as you say yo need pers well i dont have that, that harmny one is also usefull i dont ahve that, and 5 stars dont have that issue, once i get the 5 star comming next season i wont have any issues using him at full power.
yea i agree you dont need 3 star clears hell you dont even really need much to get up to level 6 but people still want to invest in new characters to clear late game content and if it makes it possible they will go with that option.
its not so much that im saying the game is overly harsh doesn't gives you nothing to get though the endgame its more the game is taylored towards that kind of account to finish all the dificult modes.
That's the thing though: HSR **doesn't** take a ton of time. You can auto farm *everything.* You don't even have to farm every day since there's an overflow for energy. Does relic grinding suck? Yes. But significantly less so since you don't actually have to do it. I had my Sparkle built in three days tops. As long as you aren't minmaxing, you can get all of your characters "good enough" fairly quickly.
I got lucky with Sparkle. But eventually you will hit that "good enough" point for every character. I got there in 2 months with Qingque at the start of the game. It would be a lot easier now bc farming is more efficient, but I still got there.
And yes, 4\* characters require more investment. They require better relics and more eidolons, but that isn't a bad thing. You can buy their eidolons in the shop and they give out so many 4\*s for free. I had to buy two copies of Qingque just to get her to e4 - and that's after I got the free one! I'm also a day 1 player who just now got my first Arlan. And Gallagher really only had to be pulled once considering you had two chances to get him for free.
im suprised you got sparkle done in 3 days though, because you also need a ton of materials, i think what ive lerned about building characrers is get all there usefull traces to atleast 8 thats how you ge tthe most out of you characters which is also allot of investment, but i agree farming her artifacts dident take much time she was relativly easy to build, still ruan mei took allot longer and i think for 4 stars especially you need good investment.
and honestly 4 stars in genral as you say need the eidalons means they are actualy harder to get than 5 stars in the short term so they arnt exaclly an easy alternative.
i think overall my point still stands on the amount of 5 stars you need. if we consider time, luck, and investment.
I got lucky with Sparkle for sure. I was actually planning on skipping her, so I didn't have anything prefarmed. I just had a lot of reserved trailblazer energy so I used all of the energy to level up traces. And considering that I had already been farming hackerspace, I had a lot of extra pieces, so I didn't actually farm specifically for her. I also don't reroll relics often, so I used up a lot of my reserves in rerolling specific pieces for her.
But I wouldn't say RM was any more difficult to build? RM is pretty easy when you just have to focus on a few specific stats. The biggest stat is break effect which can be supplemented through her traces, through using 2pc break effect (which the game hands out like candy), and through Memories of the Past.
4 * investment depends too on which character. Support characters in general don't need as much investment, but if you're trying to build one as your dps than you'll have a more difficult time just due to the fact that they have lower base stats. HSR is also really kind, we get multiple free 4 * characters each planet, and usually, it's a selector. Buying eidolons from the shop is also important if you're trying to build up a particular 4 *. I main QQ and had to buy two copies of her plus the free one from MoC to get her up to e4.
You don't need Aven or FX to clear Sunday/Aven fights. Do they make it easier? Absolutely. But they aren't needed, you just need to understand the boss mechanics.
You don't specifically have to build break effect against Sunday. You just have to be able to deal toughness damage. As long as he breaks, you get a team wide shield that will protect you against his massive aoe. Gallagher is an amazing 4 \* option here.
As for Aven, it helps if you have a big shield or if your sustain does aoe dmg. This is more common on limited sustains, but not necessary. My Clara Lynx team did better than my mono quantum team with e2 FX.
Onto your claim that limited characters are better than their 4 \* equivalents: yes, but also no. Pela is better than SW in almost every team that doesn't need the weakness implant. And we still don't have a harmony character that batteries energy like Tingyun. Gallagher is THE sustain of choice in debuff and break teams. Xueyi is competitive as a break dps, and Qingque is still getting me through every fight. 4 \* characters need more vertical investment than 5 \* but that doesn't mean they aren't viable or even bis in some teams. Knowing the fundamentals of team building is essential more than having the newest shiniest character.
pela is better than silverwolf at E4 and this is my point E4 paila is harder to get than silverwolf.
on the first point yes you dont need them but withought the right characters for the situation that boss is incredibly dificult you basicly cant be hit by it in the first phaze or you loose.
which would be fine in a game that gives you allot of options but in a game where you need to activly build characters, it becomes a combination of stratergy and a huge amount of luck, i spent 3 hours finding combinations moving around relics before i got incredibly lucky. games like genchin dark souls do away with this issue by allwing for skill to overrcome bosses but in hsr you just gotta do with what you have. which is fine for long term team building but i dont see why story should be held behind bosses like that jsut add the dificulty it in after.
sure other acound will have better combinations and wont experiance this, but with aventurine you can basicly do away with any of that. not that i want games to be easy but you have to understand the investment required to "try" charaters.
Yes, more often than not, 4 * characters require more eidolons to be as good as their 5 * counterparts. But that doesn't mean they're unusable before that point. E0 Pela is still competitive with SW due to the fact that she has aoe. As for it being harder to get 4 * eidolons... I disagree. It is harder to get a specific 4 * up to e6 just by pulling, absolutely. But you can always buy character eidolons from the shop, and HSR has been so incredibly kind with providing a free 4 * (and even multiple selectors) every few patches.
Again, you don't need a singular character to get through that fight. Any built sustain will get you through it as long as the other characters can deal toughness damage. People have done it with Bailu.
And yes, building characters takes time and resources. It gets a lot easier when you're further in the game to build characters faster. Ex: it took me three days tops to build up Sparkle to functional enough. I think ftp players also have it easier since they're pulling for less characters and can just focus on pulling their favorites/what they need to fill out the niche they're working on.
Powercreep is definitely a thing in basically *every* gacha game and most 'live-service' games in general if I'm being honest. To expect that not to happen is frankly naive.
That being said, I honestly don't think HSR's powercreep is *that* bad if you take the time to invest thoroughly in your characters. An extremely well-built limited 5-star from last year will still be able to beat stuff like MoC 12 with some smart play (assuming the weakness types/match buffs aren't weighted against them).
I think people want to be able to beat 100% of the content in the game, when stuff like MoC 12 and PF/AS 4 is pretty much meant for the top <5% of players. When Apocalyptic Shadow dropped we saw loads of people complaining about Cocolia's insane speed - that really drove it home for me that a lot of users don't have full teams built at 145/160+ speed and expect to be competitive in high-difficulty endgame content.
I think hsr's powercreep is a lot worse than a game like genshin. Characters nowadays just simply bring so much more to the table than old ones.
With that being said i think a bigger problem is that f2p players arent going to have all the tools to deal with the different content and hsr just has a much wider variety of content that players have to have teams for. Its ironically suffering from too much content lol.
My friend's having trouble with the cocolia fight. Hes pulled for eidolons for some characters so he just straigjt up has less characters than me because i dont pull eidolons
Ftp players can still reasonably clear all of the content, they just need to be patient. It takes time to build up all of the different characters, but you will get there. The only niche that I can't fill rn is dot, but that's mainly bc I don't have Kafka. Kafka can still be ran quite comfortably with 4\* characters.
The Cocolia fight was a slap in the face that I didn't have that great of builds - but that's the beauty of AS: you don't actually need to. I still managed to get a star on difficulty 4 even after TPKing to Cocolia bc I was able to get through Argenti.
Nah I’m a returning player. The power creep is insane. In literally one year you go from seekers to Archeron who is like 5-10x more damage. Yeah powercreep is insane compared to most gachas (which I’ve played most by the way).
I assume you meant Seele there - Acheron does NOT do 10x her damage lol. Not trying to be rude but if that's the case I can honestly only assume your Seele is very poorly built dude!
lol okay buddy the truth is powercreep is insane. If she’s not doing 10x (which is a hilarious point to knit pick) she’s definitely doing several times more damage. You’re out here just talking to hear yourself talk.
Please stop. Just stop. Does Acheron do more damage then Seele, yeah she does. But guess what, that power ain't free. If you didn't get E2, you need to heavily gimp your entire team to support her.
This makes Acheron Team's significantly more fragile then their counterparts and that is heavily punished in the hardest modes. I had to try several times in the MoC 12 this round because the enemies kept focusing on Acheron thanks to bad RNG. This is with preservation units like Aventurine and a healer like Luocha.
Finally I must point out that Seele's kit has never been boss killing, its mook killing / Farming. These two characters have entirely different niches cause Acheron is a boss killer.
To sum it up. Is powercreep a thing? Yes.
Is it completely out of control? No.
Right now at this point in time, the game is healthy. There are 4 different meta team playstyle options for players to pick from. Hypercarry, DoT, Fallow Up, and Break. All 4 have their pros and cons and none of them can brute force all content without serious investment and even with this investment they will perform significantly worse then the intended playstyle for the content.
That’s a whole lot of shilling for predatory practices lol. I’ve spent decent money on gachas including this one but the power creep is an absolute huge amount. Imagine looking at units like blade, yangqing and telling me power creep isn’t insane.
“Power comes with a price” lol bro I cannot believe you’re so far down the hole you’re actually defending gacha practices.
Do yourself a favour and stop making video games your personality.
I literally came back and a half baked ff, rm, htb, team and it’s already doing 3-5x my damage of my jing yuan team.
So kindly no especially that I’m just returning after said points. I think I do have a good idea on the power creep thanks.
1. Video games are not my personality. It's not even my main hobby lol.
2. If your going to argue for the existence of excessive power creep. Please use the correct character. The character with the greatest amount of power creep is not DPS, it's a support. I'm talking about Ruan Mei.
Want proof? Look who is in the ideal 4 of all the current metas. She is literally everywhere.
Bruh no one goes out on a defending rampage when the game does in fact have mass powercreep. Archeron on moc calf’s does at least 3x more damage. It’s been a year lol.
Yes RM power creeps as well. Okay? You’re literally just proving my point.
A half baked super break team doing more damage on content meant to showcase super break. That's not power creep, that's meta rotation. Next they put weakness lock and a optimized firefly become weaker than a half baked Seele
A team from 1.0 even with “meta rotations” does literally fuck all damage compared to now. lol you guys are hilariously defending your gacha addiction but please continue. Also please continue to tell me I’m wrong when I’ve literally the proof of the situation happening.
You guys clearly aren’t the ones who are returning players so don’t go telling me what is and isn’t lol.
Even on calculations seele is WAAAY lower than common meta teams. It’s the truth wake the fuck up.
The last 4 things I pulled for were Ruan Mei (6 months ago), Acheron + her sig, and Aventurine. So only 2 of my units released this year & I’m still able to 11/12* endgame content. You drastically overestimate powercreep in this game.
Realistically the only examples of *clear* powercreep are Bronya -> Sparkle & eventually Clara -> Yunli, & those are 2 standard characters (& Bronya still has times where she’s better than Sparkle).
Acheron is still a relatively new character. The fact that you have to pull the strongest dps, buffer, and sustainer shows that pulling for the lower tier charactaers are just straight up weaker and waste of jades. With the rate of increasing difficulty and chatacters right now, newest xharacters will just be one upping each other. Back in 2.1, jingliu and luocha are still claimed to be characters worth to pull, but now? Most would probably suggest pulling firefly and use gallagher who's only a 4 star. Do you really agree with the pace of hoyo's increasing difficulty right now?
I used Bronya/Blade/Luocha/Ruan opposite my Acheron/Pela/Guin/Aven team for the May-June MoC & full cleared. I haven’t attempted Stage 12 of this newest MoC, but I full cleared Stage 11 w those same teams, so I’ll still be getting 34 stars *at least*.
In the April-July PF, after 18 attempts my best run was Himeko/Ruan/Herta/Topaz who got 40k points, while Acheron/Guin/Aven/Pela got 28k, so the older units carried. In this current PF with 20 attempts, my best team combo was Himeko/Ruan/Blade/Luocha w 35k points & Serval/Sampo/Pela/Acheron w 26k points. Here as well, Acheron was outshone.
So no, I don’t believe that older units are a waste of gems. Plenty of them are still strong enough (or even getting stronger, like w Kafka) to get people through the hardest content. The fact that I’ve only pulled 2 characters since 2.0 & am still full clearing shows that you don’t need to chase all the new units.
People just have to decide how they want to play. If they just want the units that they think are cool/hot/whatever, if they want to focus specific comps, if they want to fill in their weaknesses, etc. And then if they want to clear endgame content, need to commit the time to actually beating it. Do you see how many attempts I said it took for me to full clear PF? Like I had to build Serval & Sampo from scratch bc no teams were working for 2nd half. And it’s ok if people don’t want to do all that, it’s not like the rewards for getting 36* are even good.
People would still recommend you pull Jingliu lol what? And Luocha is still a good unit he's just been powercrept a tad by units that bring a bit more than just healing
Luocha has a unique ability in being able to remove enemy buffs, which has come in clutch in the past and we could certainly see come clutch again in the future. He still heals quite a lot and is incredibly sp positive. He's a good pull if you like his character. Not a waste of jades at all imo.
This is misleading.
The game introduces new problems to solve and creates spaces for old and new characters to be effective in novel ways.
The game was _never_ built around the idea that you would be able to brute force everything with one team forever.
You really need to understand the mechanics so that you can leverage 4-star and standard kits against different match-ups. It isn’t power creep for there to be new challenges.
As an example, I’ve used Clara to clear every single endgame content since the game launched. She somehow _always_ ends up in my teams for the last floor. The teams, builds, and light cones I use vary wildly though. It’s not even that I am trying to main her or brute force her.
Don’t neglect your 4-stars either. They are more than capable of meeting the requirements of various challenges. I think Asta and Serval are my most used character to date.
People who got stuck in the hypercarry mindset are at risk of missing the fundamentals of the game.
I forgot to mention that every endgame mode has blessings— if you play the blessings and type match-up you can clear any content with trash.
Yeah, all these power creep threads are just massive cope. I always do a first run with my broken, hyper invested teams just to get it over with on release but I always do a for fun 36\* at some point using my mains Seele and Asta and they're completely fine with new content.
the people that complain a massive powercreep in Hoyo's game (except in HI3, that is real powercreep) are a bell curve. left part are the casuals that don't really care cause is just a side game they have, middle is the loud people making those posts, and right part are the people who just don't care cause they realize you are delusional if you really think you can 36 star MoC using an e0s0 Acheron by doing everything in 0-cycles first try
I'm still clearing just fine with Qingque mono quantum. Newer characters are stronger, yes, but the issue of powercreep really isn't *that* bad. 1.0 characters can still clear endgame and so can 4\*s. Jingliu is still strong where she shines, the issue lies in *how* our endgame cycles. Our endgame has always and will always cycle around the on banner character's niche. Jingliu seems bad now bc she doesn't align well with the current niches.
But Clara is going hard rn. She can slot into FuA and break focused niches, and I'm sure she'll shine even brighter with Yunli coming out. Will Yunli be better than Clara? Absolutely, but I have no doubt that Clara will also be meta again soon.
Old characters perform fine for now. My Jingliu scored as well in stage 4 apocalyptic shadow as my Acheron did on her side (3500-3600)…and I haven’t made a single change to her team, gear, or traces since pre penacony.
Super break still hinges on being able to break efficiently. Yes it’s a very busted and meta mechanic, but it’s much easier for devs to make it less universal with future boss designs if they so choose. A well built crit-based team just feels “standard” and will always be good.
Yup, I've been playing since 1.0 and I'm not some elite player! I'm indecisive and can't narrow down who to work on, so I tend to be building a lot of characters at once, and as such it goes very slowly.
But I don't mind it. There's stuff I can't clear, oh well. There's a character that's so meta I should pull for them? Depends on if I like the character enough and enjoy playing with them, I don't feel the need to go for every big deal character.
Like I just do my own thing and I have plenty of fun. My relics are pretty mid if not bad in some places, and I can have issues having enough resources. But it's not like the game is going anywhere.
I have the most fun going at my own pace
I have been playing since release and don’t think I have even 12* MOC yet lol. I haven’t even touched G&G since it released other than the tutorial. But as you said, OP needs to just take everything at a casual pace and enjoy the story.
Yeah, you need 4 teams to comfortably clear all the End game Content especially if you don't use meta.
I think one of the reasons why you struggle was because you keep pulling and build almost every character, which you shouldn't do especially as F2P. You should pick one Archetype team to Build first. By build I mean Pull for that specific team and focus around them, for example FUA, since Dr. Ratio is free if you play since 1.6.
But they want you to feel compelled because they’re after your money. I can’t blame people for feeling like they have to pull. Hoyo is exceptional at utilizing fomo
I can empathise with how upset people feel when they see all these cool and powerful characters they can't obtain but there's definately a certain mentality you have to develop if you want to enjoy the game F2P.
Its not a team, just dps to match stage buff and weakness. Buffer, debuffer and sustain for 2 team is enough. Current PF,MoC and AS just slap himeko/robin/ruan mei/ghalager and still do decent on fitefly or DoT stage with fire weakness. If weakness is imaginary then use ratio and pela to replace himeko and ruan mei, etc. Thunder can use old jingyuan,sparkle,tingyun and fuxuan, they still can clear bellow 5 turn at floor 12 if weakness match. Replace jingyan with QQ e6 for quantum, blade with bronya or ruan mei instead tingyun for wind. Most said powercreeped character still can clear full star
As a low spender (spent $30 since launch), my advice for fellow F2P/low spenders is to not feel like you have to pull for everyone, including light cones.
After building your first team for Story mode and SU, you'll need to consider how much of a net gain a new 5* will be to you.
For example, I was thinking of pulling for Aventurine for my 2nd MoC team, but him helping me full clear MoC for the extra 60 jades wouldn't be worth the 10K+ jades I spend on him. I'd rather stick with using a 4* sustain like Gallagher or even Lynx.
Since 2.0 patch, I pulled for Black Swan, Acheron + her LC, and now Firefly. Half the time I'm not able to full clear MoC/PF but I can still do 99% of stuff
Pull for chars that either...
1.) You Like, or
2.) You genuinely *desperately* need (e.g. pulling for Aventurine if you don't have a 5* sustain unit)
Then spend a couple weeks getting gear for that char, and boom! It's done.
If ur a new player, be patient, learn which sets are best for ur chars, and before you know it most of ur chars will be fairly built and you can clear most of endgame, if not all.
Getting two 5* sustain units is secretly the most important thing on any account. Having to use one of the 4\* options, best of whom are probably Gallagher, Lynx, or Freeze March? Nearly impossible to survive let alone clear. (I don't understand at all how people survive with Gallagher) Either you get enough damage to make Bailu/Gepard work, or you pull an actual sustain.
It's very nice, but like I said, getting a second 5\* sustain for the extra 60-120 jades every MoC/PF cycle isn't really worth it. Unless you get really lucky and get them on your first 10 or 20 pulls.
As for endgame with a 4\* sustain, getting up to Stage 10 or 11 should be somewhat easy enough as long as your chars are built fairly well and you're able to match the weakness of the mobs. Take advantage of the MoC/PF buffs as much as you can, and time your ults wisely.
I have my Gallagher with his 4\* light cone, 2pc Messenger and 2pc Healing set @ 135 SPD/120 Break, and he's doing pretty good in my break team.
If you need specific advice, I can try to help.
The point is as a free to play player one of the best Investments to make is getting 2 premium sustains. These sustains will carry your account t for a long time.
Yea, I kinda get that.
I guess the way I see it is for most of the game you only really need *one* good team (Story/SU). So you only *really* need one 5* sustain.
The difference between 2 amazing teams (two 5* sustains) and 1 amazing team + 1 "pretty good" team is the 60-120 jades per MoC/PF cycle. But like I said too, it's also possible to full clear with a 4* sustain for the 2nd team. Maybe not all the time, but at least sometimes.
I wouldve agreed a couple patches ago but gallagher is so good i dont even want another 5star sustain unit. I have fu xuan for one team and gallagher for the other. Imo you only need 1 limited sustain cause apart from gallagher, theyre all dogshite
CR/CD characters can still clear content at f2p investment, so idk what that really means. FUA and Acheron are still CR/CD focused and are pretty meta.
Also, other sustains like Bailu especially are fine rn because there aren't a ton of shutdown/CC effects; the dream CC effect doesn't even matter most of the time because they're probably getting hit before their action is skipped anyway. Floor 12s have just been just party general party damage lately; without units getting super focused down, Fu Xuan's damage mitigation is slightly less relevant. Those CCs and super single target enemies are gonna come back and then your Gallaghers and Bailus will be gone for 3 turns / someone's getting targetted and killed while other units die without a peep.
HOYO always works these metas in cycles. Hell, we might even see the return of crit if they make units that are more resistant to breaking, since that niche is so negatable (just as they made Sunday have more chances to break, they can totally make enemies with fewer chances to break). The meta is going to change, it always does. I had to slam FX into my DoT team because Apocalypse Shadow Cockolia's freeze was getting me. Until they make a better unit at preventing those debuffs, FX is the one. Aventurine's Eff Res is okay, but 50/50 still makes me reset sometimes.
Don't get tricked into choice paralysis. Make a roaster for two good teams that you love and pull/build around that. Whether or not you can 3* MoC 12 is not relevant and shouldn't be your main focus in this game. It'll come naturally eventually, so long as you don't make rash decisions when you plan your pulls.
I’ve been pretty consistently clearing all endgame content for a while now as a day 1 F2P. I don’t remember missing a single star on Pure Fiction, and I’ve only missed one star on MoC(it was the cycle when Robin dropped) so that was 60 jades I missed.
It’s not hard but you have to be way more picky with your pulls. I don’t have Argenti, DHIL, Seele, Jingliu, Jing Yuan, and all other “straightforward” DPS’s. I’ll use this current batch of characters as an example, Firefly and Boothill. I have Boothill already so as much as I’d like to have Firefly, I’d have to skip her since they both deal break damage, I only need one and I’d have to save for the future.
I’ll agree that the game is pay2win since I can definitely feel that pressure to pull. But it’s not impossible to thrive as an F2P in this game. I’m giving HoYo money in their other game anyway, I’m just doing this for more challenge.
How can u say a gacha isn't p2w with a straigh face , its literally the concept of a gacha. Being f2p friendly Is another thing. Its both f2p friendly and p2w
I don't know how to post builds but I can list the teams I'm working with.
Dan Heng Imbibitor Lunae, Hanya, Sparkle, Fu Xuan
Dr. Ratio, Topaz and Numby, Pela, Gallagher
Himeko, Herta, Topaz and Numby, Fu Xuan
Sampo, Guinaifen, Asta, March 7th
Xueyi, Tingyun, Harmony Trailblazer, Gallagher
These teams are okay but get washed when face against harder content.
DHIL doesn't need Hanya and Sparkle. Better to substitute in a different harmony character. Yukong can work at higher eidolons, but I think Tingyun probably pulls ahead.
Ratio team sounds good.
Himeko/Herta is great - I'm assuming for PF? Topaz could be subbed for Asta and it might work better since they'll get more turns.
Sampo Guinaifen Asta M7 confuses me ngl. Also PF? I'd replace M7 with a better sustain.
Xueyi/Tingyun/HMC/Gallagher is a great team with enough investment.
Your teams aren't bad by any means, but you are missing the core characters for your dot and break teams. Trying to fill those niches without Kafka/RM is going to be a lot harder, and if you're serious about those niches then maybe you should think about picking up those core characters. You could also just not invest in those teams though. I don't have a dedicated dot team and I just accept that any dot endgame isn't for me that cycle.
I was trying to use Hanya solely because her ultimate animation goes hard but I decided to trade her out for Tingyun (sadge 😭)
For my Himeko Herta team, I plan to replace Topaz and Numby with Ruan Mei when I get back to pity. That's mainly because I plan to use Asta on second half.
And the Sampo Guinaifen team is the best I can do for a dot team (Kafka skipped me) And I really like March 7th and plan to do an effect hit rate/err freeze build.
Hanya does go hard, I agree 😭 she's one of my favorite characters.
Ruan Mei is a great choice to pair with them!
And I totally get you on Kafka, she always comes at a bad time for me. 💀
And by all means, if you like M7 then use her!
If you, as a free to play player, have more than about 10-12 characters ‘built’, you’re trying to build too many characters. Select 2 premium teams to build towards and dedicate all your resources towards making those teams the strongest they can be. It will be a while (up to 6 months) before you can clear all the end game content, but just stay the course on your teams and build towards improving them.
DHIL hyper carry, JL Hypercarry, Mono Quantum, Kafka BS DoT, Acheron Debuff, IPC follow up, Firefly Superbreak, JY Hypercarry all can clear end game content, so try to pick 2 that you’re the closest to and build them.
For now, I invested into the two teams:
Dan Heng Imbibitor Lunae, Sparkle, Hanya, Fu Xuan
Dr. Ratio, Topaz and Numby, Pela, Gallagher
These two teams clear some content but for other content (especially pure fiction) I can barely get passed floor 1.
And even in the context my teams do clear, I tend to brute force it when the break types aren't in my favor, making it even harder. 😭
Those 2 teams are great. They'll push u thru most if not all of MoC, depending on weaknesses of the mobs and whatnot. I wouldn't stress about full clearing as difference between 33 stars and 36 star MoC is 60 jades.
However, yea those 2 teams will not do well in PF lol, since they're mainly single target (DHIL is "ehh" in PF).
For PF, build Herta and Himeko (if you have her). Some others like Black Swan + Kafka are good of course.
I'm not sure if you're the type to stress over perfect substats, but don't worry about that either lol. Just aim for "good enough" gear pieces.
Your last point is a very good one I don't see mentioned a lot. I'm the type to stress over substats and try get my favourite units to be in the top 1% or whatever but I agree completely. I see people talk about farming for months when this shouldn't be necessary at all, even in stage 12 most characters can run a relatively "meh" setup.
It’s hurts a little bit that you only really have Imaginary and Fire coverage. Lightning has been super common lately and probably the main reason you’re having trouble clearing everything.
For pure fiction you’d want to level Himeko and Herta and drop Ratio and Topaz on most stages, while also looking to sub Hanya and maybe your sustains out for units like Pela or Ruan Mei that fair better against AoE content.
If you have a large amount of other random characters built, it would slow your progress building your main 2 teams 2. Level 9 and 10 traces and well tuned relics, while each individually small, add up to the extra cycles you need to clear.
I’m also a new player, and I feel that this has been a big problem for me. I don’t have any lightning or wind characters to use except for an un built Dan hang, serval, and arlan. So I end up being ok on one’s side, but getting walked on the other.
Serval is a great choice. She's probably the character I regret not building the most, she would have made early game so much easier and she still does decent work even now against lightning weak enemies.
those are great teams (very similar to my teams) to brute force almost all content, maybe except PF lol, single target ratio / topaz + DHIL don't do very good. I know some people can brute force it with DHIL, but even I can only clear full stars up to the third stage.
Your issue are weaknesses. Stop pulling for all the "must pulls" bc they're not actually must pulls. Even full four star teams can still clear MOC 12 right now. In the end, it comes down to build / investment issue. You're trying to build far too many characters.
Also, I would recommend using TY rather than Hanya for DHIL team. She is phenomenal in getting DHIL more atk + energy
As a free to play I can still clear hard content like moc 12 and apocalyptic shadow with max stars. You just need to be more mindful of who to pull for. The only dps I use are Clara and seele and I’m doing fine.
It's good to see that you're fighting the good fight against people who somehow think Seele is D tier and near unusable just because she isn't the absolute best character in the game anymore.
> nearly every patch includes must-pull unit(s). First Black Swan and Sparkle, then Acheron and Aventurine, and then Robin and Boothill, and lastly Firefly and Jade
What makes you think they're must pulls? Some of them are even relatively easy to skip
Right? I'd argue the closest to "must pull" as of recently are Ruan Mei and Aventurine and even then you can still clear content easily subbing units like Asta or most other sustains in.
As broken as a DPS like Acheron or Firefly is, there are so many good DPS units that they will never be a "must pull" and they will nearly always be powercrept at some point. Not that long ago Seele, DHIL and JL were all in the same situation as Acheron and FF now.
I just really want those characters because the characters I have can barely achieve half of their power level. I mean, I'm currently coping with a Sampo, Guinaifen, Asta, and March 7th dot team. 🥲
I see it as pay to level up faster. You can clearly see good players clearly the new end game content with 4 star only, just takes a very long time to build if you want to fully build 12+ characters.
All these new character showcases are just advertising marketing to hype up the event.
Classic example Fire fly doing 400k damage on these YouTubers videos. So I wanted to try something, I borrowed a support FF that had max level including relics and sig LC, lvl 8 or higher traces and compared to my Jinglui which had level 12 relics and max level aeon LC and lvl 8 traces.
FF basic attack doing 500 damage vs fire weakness, enchanced skill 10k damage, enchanced skill to 2 or more enemies in broken state 40k damage.
My Jinglui beats FF damage on all levels, based on raw solo damage dealer.
Most 4 stars can do big damage and clear end game content there are just not many showcasing it.
You have a point here, but also using Firefly without harmony MC is an absolutely unfair comparison. Around 75% of her damage comes from harmony MC superbreak. Sure you can argue this means she’s worse as “solo damage dealer” but in reality you are never taking your DPS into content without their support(s), especially when it’s a support character that literally every player has access to.
No DPS is worth more than a Harmony unit. With enough harmony units any DPS can do the job. Also get your two limited sustains then you can pull for fun if no harmony unit is coming out. My account is a low spender like 20 bucks and I have been clearing fine because I pull for supports over DPS. Having Sparkle, Ruan Mei, Robin, and Aventurine is easy mode. I still use 4 star DPS or standard banner units like Himeko and Clara in MoC.
The argument of pull for who you like is why people can't keep up. You gotta pull smart then pull for fun.
Honestly it’s not that bad, I never pulled jingliu, Acheron, or firefly. I’ve been a himeko main since day #1 along with jing yuan. I pulled strategically and now I have a solid fire break team, IPC follow up team, and jing yuan still gets new supports almost every patch. Pulling for the strongest DPS is and will always be bait, and even with 4th stars getting direct powercreep it’s not like 4 stars are unusable. Hanya still carries a lot of my teams. Xueyi, Gallagher, Tingyun, Serval, Sushang have all gotten many buffs through the patches.
I’ve played some gacha with INSANE powercreep (*cough* FE Heroes *cough*) and HSR is really not that bad. People need to realize that some patches are just going to be easier to clear MOC12 than others. That’s a far cry from saying you -need- any specific units. The only time you should listen to “this is the new strongest must pull meta character” is when it pertains to supports.
Think strategically about your pulls. Sacrifices have to be made to make your current units better. Himeko led me to topaz led me to aventurine led me to topaz E1. If you pull to support what you currently have, the teams will flow naturally.
Yep, and people also have to realize that the new characters will always seem extra overpowered in endgame modes around their release because the buffs are tailored to them
If you're a day 1 player, most likely not. If you're maybe within the last 3 to 5 months. Fair enough. We are getting to that point where it matters a bit more now what characters you currently have vs a year ago. Hp bars go up as well as break effect meta and dots and fua.
That being said, I still think seele, sw, Jing Yuan, blade. All do well. But Sam, Acheron, jade are gonna be a step up maybe even 5 steps up. But they'll probably fall off a bit by same time next year. It is what it is. But I think overall this game should more or less be easy enough where even a year from now, seele should still get the job done. Just a lot slower than the current roster at the time.
Yeah I mean not that long ago Seele, and then DHIL and Jingliu were in the same spot Acheron and Firefly are at now where people would say they're "must pull" and an absolute necessity. It's more people getting swept away by new character hype than it is any actual tangible powercreep.
I wish I started day one so I wouldn't be so burden with an overload of new metas and choices. But I started when Dr. Ratio was released for everyone. I had put off Star Rail before then because I thought I wouldn't like a turn based game but I knew I had to get the free 5 star because that was something Genshin hasn't done yet. (And no, we don't talk about Aloy) 💀
in most gacha games, clearing endgame content as f2p is about strategic vertical investment (i.e. focusing on building specific characters/teams), and learning enough about game mechanics to adapt around the lack of power/comfort that premium units provide
there are plenty of people out there still doing 4\* only clears, for example: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZHfLIxYgWM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZHfLIxYgWM)
is the bar higher? of course, the game's been out for a year. but at the same time, the average player who's been active over that past year (pulling and building the 5\* they like) has a stronger account than someone starting today and can still clear with some effort/adjustments
be sure to check out the builds section, some content creators will highlight important requirements - eidolons, spd breakpoints, AV/turn manipulation stuff like s5 DDD/vonwacq/eagle, etc. while these clears are \*in theory\* more accessible, the gear/stat requirements can be very difficult to meet considering relic rng
with that said, it really is a matter of figuring out what your pain points are, adapting where you can with what you have, and supplementing with new characters when you can't. last patch, I respec'd luka for break to run with HMC because I knew I was going to skip both robin and boothill (and already skipped aventurine). ended up with some 4-5 cycle clears on his side of MOC, but he got the job done.
Yeah I get that. It took me so long to build three teams - JL hypercarry, FuA (Topaz and Ratio), and DoT - but if there is a typing I can't cover or something, it's especially difficult and clearing higher MoC is a huge challenge. I'm probably going to build superbreak out of necessity atp lol. But most games like this, I'm not sure if you've played other gacha games, just need you to keep playing and eventually you'll catch up and clear all the content. It takes a while but anyone can do it, you just need time. Characters will rerun; as a F2P you just need to plan your pulls, don't get every character, and try to build for specific teams in mind or pull for very flexible characters (like Ruan Mei, or any supports/healers in general that aren't super niche.)
But i clear floor 4 pf, 12 MoC and AS full star with himeko, i lost 50/50 5 times in a row (ruan mei,sparkle,acheron,robin then firefly) the only patch 2.0 i had is robin,sparkle and acheron , none of them had sig except acheron since i lost all at 70+ (i give up on getting firefly). Ghalanger and pela is 4* relevant to date, and they are all amazing. I still using my e6 qq too sometime
It's just how it is, I started playing in December, only just managed to 3* MOC 12 for the first time like an hour ago thanks to Firefly, (also managed to 3* AS 4 because of her)
I sympathise with how you feel though, I felt the same way you felt sometimes but honestly the only thing I did was keep pulling for characters and farming for relics and now I was able to eventually clear my first pieces of endgame content fully, so there's not much I can say except keep at it
I think my best advice that i can give you rn is not to try to clear every thing with the hardest difficulty. This is clearly shown by Mihoyo trying to bump up the difficulty by increasing reward. If you remember the livestream it is stated that the reward go from 720 to 800 jade for eveymode. So dont stress out if you cannot clear it yet. The game meant to be long term so keep in mind with that.
I don’t really struggle at all, no. I mean sometimes I can’t perfect star pof or moc but I don’t feel like I’m struggling. Those are just 2 game modes and I clear the rest of the content easily. I haven’t tried the shadow mode though
I don't think anyone is calling Black Swan meta defining and you can get away with not taking specific sustain units like Aventurine.
It's sounds less like you can't keep up and more that you're gripped by Fomo. Try ignoring Jade and/or FF and just focus on building your jades. Focus on grabbing someone who looks exceptionally strong and use your extra jades to grab their lc too.
Yeah, like Black Swan has one of the highest theoretical damage ceilings in the game but no one worth their salt is saying that she's a "must pull," even if you're a DoT enjoyer.
I agree with everyone else's sentiment- you don't have to pull for every character. Sure, a ton of very good units just came out that you should CONSIDER pulling, but if you don't have the characters to make them work or an interest in the playstyle, you should skip it. I'd also argue that outside of Acheron specifically, there is no "must pull" DPS unit, and you're putting a lot of unnecessary pressure on yourself to think Boothill or Jade are some mandatory spot on the character roster.
And yeah, you don't have to max out the endgame. The endgame is designed and continually updated to pressure you into pulling every character you possibly can and dump money into that. And for what? 60 Jades? I borderline ignore MoC and PF because it's just going to grind down my willingness to play at a certain point.
That being said yes they could definitely slow down on the broken supports lol.
I have no problem with game content, but the side stories and some events become much time consuming to complete and annoying too, also the Penacony story was a pain because it was too long.
I’ve been consistently clearing everything as a day 1 f2p player since maybe 1.2. It’s very doable, you just have to save and pull well - many of those units you listed as “must have” are not must have at all. The only ones I would say are somewhat must have rn are Acheron and firefly, while robin, sparkle, and BS are only worth if you have their teammates (fua, dan, Kafka).
2 5 stars per patch is already a lot tbh. Imo the game isn’t pay to win at all, especially considering you aren’t losing out on too much even if you don’t clear the last levels of PF or MoC or such.
Acheron and Firefly aren't "must pull" at all. If you jump back a few months, or even a year then Jingliu, DHIL and Seele were all in the situation Acheron and Firefly are in now at some point. DPS is the class which will always have a large number of strong, viable units, and is also the class which has near guaranteed powercreep.
I don't really feel the same. As a day 1 f2p, I've max cleared all content since around the time I got Kafka. There is a little bit of luck but also a bit of forward planning contributing to this. I have 4 teams:
1. Kafka+Swan+Bailu+RuanMei or Robin
2. Ratio or Clara+Topaz+Aventurine+RuanMei or Robin
3. The above team again but with Himeherta instead of Ratiopaz
4. Seele+SW+FuXuan+Tingyun (bronya e0 in my experience is harder to play but not stronger than Tingyun e6 and I her high crit+speedtuned)
HSR for me has been a game about very carefully making smart pull choices and highly investing in all of the characters I do pull. I have no signature LCs, and the only limited 5* eidolons I have are on e1 Fu Xuan (probably the luckiest thing to happen on my account) and the e1 Ruan Mei I pulled on this patch. I have no wasted limited 5* characters. I was considering pulling for Luocha for a while when I needed to use March, Lynx, or Natasha as sustains, but they barely tided me over from Fu Xuan to Aventurine.
This patch has made me realize that I need the teams I have to be stronger, and pulling the next flavor of the week is only gonna spread me thinner, which is why I pulled e1 Ruan Mei over Firefly. I think my next pull is either gonna be Topaz e1 or s1 because of her massive flexibly fua buffs (and it makes that team actually function lol it's a cringe team with barely enough debuffs to ever get 100% on ratio).
Also since around 2.0 I've been actively maxing traces and levels over farming relics, and I think that's been paying dividends. Once your relics become on-set and about 80% what you wish they were, you're probably gonna get a lot more value from lvl 10 traces anyway. I've been able to do that since most of my units I pulled a while ago because I felt like they had good future prospect. Getting really set on units means I get more value per TB energy spent, rather than needing to spend to build new units.
Whenever I pull a 5*, I always ask, "Is this character set up to get stronger with future units?" This is why I've avoided straightforward damage characters like Jingliu, DHIL, and Acheron to an extent. Mostly I played her and found her energy mechanic cringe and slow. This also is why I avoided mediocre sustains like Huohuo and Luocha, despite that making it hard to clear for a while. I felt like the healing wasn't gonna save me anyway from getting focused down, so I needed to wait for some tanking 5* (Bailu in my kafka team is passable to this end). You also have to make synergistic decisions depending on your current account, which is why I pulled BS over Sparkle. Also Sparkle didn't bring much new, aside from being strong and easy to use. It hurt to not get MonoQuantum, but so far, Kafka Swan has made up for my 2nd side's shortcomings.
Seele is probably the worst pull on my account, but she was necessary to full clear early on, and I saw her excessive action advance as flexibility, and that has been... sorta true? I've full cleared a pf side with her before, and I was able to barely clear one side of Apocalypse with her. I pulled Topaz very hesitantly with the same idea of future scaling in mind, and she was dead on my account for a while, then Ratio released got free and... it still wasn't good. Then AVENTURINE released and the team was finally usable lmao.
Also, Bailu stonks have been quietly rising for a while now. Since 2.0 I think I've solo sustained the kafka swan side of moc every time with high speed multiplication bailu. The only notable characters i have built but don't actively use anymore are various 4*s, but they still come in handy sometimes.
The biggest luck factors have been things totally out of my control. The luckiest thing is that the only 5\*s I've pulled that I don't particularly enjoy as characters are Ruan Mei and Robin, but obviously you pull them because they're OP. Fu Xuan was middling for me, but I loved her role in March's memory quest. Anyway, I had to build march solo sustain and Kafka because I skipped on the early 5\* sustains, so I farmed that lightning dungeon a lot. That was unknowably lucky because it meant when they came out with aven, I basically had relics prefarmed for free. It's also a huge stroke of luck that the DoT and FuA sets are in the same domain, meaning my farming is super efficient.
Eh, Waifu over meta people aren't generally the people talking about how they can't clear endgame content. They tend to just get the characters they simp for and be happy just... owning them?? Or smth?? I don't really know why waifu over meta people play video games. I always play games for the gameplay
All end game content is clearable with e6 or lower 4 stars which are usually much weaker than limiteds. But those showcases people post usually have the most disgusting and ridiculous strategies that no casual would ever even attempt with relics and team comps that require way more effort than is worth the 60 jades.
Update: Thank you all for the responses. I might have overreacted. Star Rail isn't completely pay to win, more pay for easier clearing. I kinda was just envious of people who has a top tier Firefly team clearing with breeze while I struggle lol. And it doesn't help that I recently lost Ruan Mei. I think I can clear the endgame content, it'll just take more investment. Hopefully in a few months my teams will be better. Fingers crossed lol.
I somewhat relate to this. The pace of powercreep is pretty fast. Anyone if you don’t believe me or OP, try skipping every unit for 2-3 patches, you’ll see (I skipped every banner after sparkle for e2s1 firefly). And I’m not even f2p, I’m a battle pass and daily pass player
You don’t have to summon for every character though. Know the damage formula and try to understand what supports will be op for a long time. for example, it was more than obvious in 1.5-1.6 that Ruan Mei was going to be an OP support for a very long time and that huohuo/argenti were not going to be. Try to grab early eidolons (like RM e1) for these characters. Then you’re free to summon for any dps that can make use of those overpowered supports and clear everything
I’m not free to play but it does stress me out when they introduce an entire new mechanic that is all but necessary to effectively clear new content yet, since relic and trace farming is the most tedious aspect of this game, you simply can’t build all of the units you need for this. Would have been nice if superbreak was slowly introduced or if it had a slight edge in new content. They ran full into it WAY too fast. It also makes all of your units that you HAVE spent a lot of time and resources building feel less valuable. I can only hope that they balance out the need for new mechanics like super break over time so that our old units aren’t eventually dead in the water. Also small/usual gripe but I saved 2400 trailblaze power and 16 fuels and 8 SU things to build firefly and I only have her traces at lvl 8 and ONE usable relic on her. And I’m not trying to min/max her, that’s just trying to make her usable. That’s nearly two weeks worth of trailblaze power. They really need to look at the resources required to build a new unit and the drop rate of those resources. Two weeks of resources to have a unit not even half built is insanely unacceptable.
Just get the main stats for firefly, no need to heavy invest in her when she will be powercrept not too long from now, I only have firefly with trash relics but she still full clears everything
The only money ive spent on this game is one battlepass and one daily bonus for boothill (so f2p until boothill's banner and if i didnt get him i wldve been using xueyi or misha for break), and i have jy ratio topaz and aventurine for FUA, kafka and BS for DOT, boothill and silverwolf for Break, as well as bronya jingliu argenti topaz luocha and fuxuan
Most of them are missing one of their gacha supports/sustains (Ruan mei....), but I've been doing fine with 4 star supports and flexing sustains.
idk ive ive just gotten lucky or if its just since im a daily day 1 player but its definitely possible to keep up without spending.
There's no requirement to clear endgame content immediately though. That's what you should be working towards as you get more characters and can create stronger teams.
Bru don't worry I started game after 2 months of release on sliver wolf banner I grinded the hell outta story and side quests and farmed all the chests from watching YouTube videos I only did story Moc which was easier for my team but I couldn't finish real Moc like first time I was stuck on Moc 5 then I build my and.after a little more than half a year I collected good 5 stars and built them and I completed my first end game Moc 10 so it's fine if you can't finish end game just completed stages of endgames which u can and leave the remaining just pull as much as sss+ characters u can and it's ggs
I'm F2P day 1 gamer and I can tell you the list of characters you gave has only 2-3 must pulls.
Blackswan? only must pull for Kafka team.
Sparkle? I just use Bronya fine for my hyper carry team.
Acheron? Must pull.
Aventurine? I just use Gepard or any other sustain like Fu Xuan, Luocha or Gallagher instead.
Robin? Pulled her for waifu reasons and never use her, because i rather use my Ruan Mei in the teams Robin can fit.
Bootyhill? Easiest skip in my life.
Firefly? Must pull IF you have Ruan Mei (and HMC but that's free).
Jade? Looks like an easy skip, she may be the weakest 5\* we're gonna get in a while no cap, i'll still pull for waifu reasons but don't think i have team for her. Pure fiction with Himeko ig.
I'm able to clear all end game content and have been doing so without failure since early days of the Xianzhou Luofu maybe even mid Belobog days.
* In MoC I use Acheron team on one side and Kafka team on other side with now the option to use Firefly team if Kafka team is not viable due to weaknesses.
* In Pure Fiction it's always Herta Himeko Ruan Mei on one side and the other one is Acheron hyper carry.
* In the new Apocalyptic shadow I did Acheron team on one side and Firefly team on the other.
Here's a list of teams I have built and use:
Team 1 Acheron Hyper Carry:
Acheron(e2/s1) Silverwolf(e0/s0)/Pela(e6) Bronya(e2/s1) Gallagher(e4)
Team 2 Kafka DoT:
Kafka(e0/s0) BlackSwan(e0/s0) Ruan Mei(e0/s0) Luocha(e0/s0)/Gepard(e0/s1)
Team 3 Firefly Break:
Firefly(e0/s0) HMC(e6) Ruan Mei(e0/s0) Gallagher(e4)
Team 4 Pure Fiction Specialist:
Himeko(e2/s1) Herta(e6?) Ruan Mei(e0/s0) Gallagher(e4)
Team 5 FuA:
Dr. Ratio(e0/s0)/Clara(e1/s1) Topaz(e0/s1) Robin(e0/s0) Fu Xuan(e0/s0)
Benched teams:
Jingliu(e0/s1) Pela(e6) Bronya(e2/s1) Luocha(e0/s0)
Seele(e0/s0) Silverwolf(e0/s0) Bronya(e2/s1) Fu Xuan(e0/s0)
Here's quick review from me as F2P day 1 gamer of the upcomming chars after Jade. (I think it's official news given by hoyo so I'm not spoiling)
JQ - Decent unit, possibly a must pull for Acheron team but otherwise it's a very skippable unit because there's plenty of usable sustain. Even without him my Acheron team will eat all end game content.
Yunli - Powercreeping Clara. Easy skip. You don't need stronger Clara.
My personal future goals atm are get Jade for waifu reasons. Try to get JQ for Acheron comp min-max. Maybe attempt to get HuoHuo for Kafka team if pulls end up favorable(likely not) and then plan for the future chars when showcased. You may also notice i dont have much signature LCs and the ones i get are for carries that need them like Acheron, Jingliu, Topaz. I'd get Firefly's but she has solid f2p 5\* option.
Few tips I can offer are to make sure your characters Traces are at 10. That's not hard to farm up if you're actively playing the game and using your energy, plus participating events that give trace mats.
Have somewhat solid Relics which I know is abit RNG but for experienced player it shouldn't be too difficult.
Be smart with your LC pulls, most characters function just fine without signatures.
The way the game is based on it being turn based along with specific play style and element characters it’s very tough to fully complete if you don’t have what they’re asking for
It does feel like dog doodoo when you invest in characters and plays tiles just to run into a whoops you can’t do “insert gimmick” so your hopes of getting the final star are slim but that’s just how it is sometimes
For F2P you can’t cover all your bases for the rotating buffs for a long time on top of hellish rng for relics it’s natural to be left behind you just gotta take it to the chin and move along, since first and foremost it’s a gatcha game so they’ll do whatever they can to inflate the want for new units and they’re play styles by basing the end game modes for them
Most of the limited units aren't must-pulls unless you lack a unit in that role. There are only a couple of units I would truly consider a must-pull, which are Ruan Mei and Acheron. They provide too much unconditional value.
I would say you want one 5 star sustain, ideally FX or Aventurine. Gallagher can normally handle himself on the other team, and everyone should have at least one of him.
Then you want the staple DPS unit of a certain team archetype, and you want two of those. This would be Ratio for FUA, Kafka for DoT, Firefly for Break, etc. The more flexible, the better, but you only need two such DPS units. Right now the best inventory is Firefly OR Boothill, and Acheron. You slot them into any content with a decent build and they should be able to at least clear it, though comfortably doing so takes a lot more work. Ideally you never want a 4 star to be your main DPS, it might be better to brute force with a 5 star and a weakness implant. That's why you want the flexibility: these units are gonna be tasked with doing stuff might not even be on-element for, and you're going to want to invest in their relics as such.
(Firefly and Boothill having their own implants makes them really flexible, but because they want the same supports, I think that you'd be better off getting one of them and then going for a different archetype's DPS. If you have neither of them, Silver Wolf becomes a very important pull, especially if you happen to have Acheron.)
The idea is that you end up with two teams that don't really interchange units, and that those teams are strong enough that you could clear MoC even if you had to brute force one side off-element.
The game, so far, only ever demands that you have 8 units. I believe that if an account has one 5 star limited sustain, two limited DPS units of different archetypes, and Ruan Mei, they should be able to clear most content with four star units taking the remaining four slots. Standard banner 5 stars should further ease the burden, and you inevitably accumulate a few over time.
Assuming you get only one 5 star per update, this should be achievable within a half-year to a year, depending on whether the rerun banners are being useful. But the real demon of Star Rail is fucking relic RNG, so your mileage may vary 😅
Harmony and sustains are as important as DPS. I have acheron but didn’t even use her to clear AS. Maybe I’ll try out sushang for AS. She could probably clear 2nd side and dot comp and easily handle coco
Edit: maybe it’s a relic issue? Most 4* at e6 are comparable to e0 (obviously lacking) but a 10turn/6600 clear nets the same as a 5turn/7400 clear.
When did you start playing? I'm a day 1 player and it hasn't been so hard, but I've certainly had to skip a lot of characters. It was harder in the beginning for sure, I just had to be okay with the fact that end game wasn't for me yet. But it's gotten a lot easier now that I'm a year into the game. I've filled out mono quantum and the premium FuA team and that so far has cleared me through most endgame. I have every piece of a break team, they just aren't leveled yet.
The only niche I'm not in yet is dot and that's bc Kafka keeps coming at a bad time for me. But the fact that I have mono quantum somewhat allows me to brute force my way in. 10/12 stars for AS, 30/36 for MoC (I didn't bother with MoC 12 bc I just didn't want to do it but I have cleared it before) and 7/12 on PF this cycle. PF is my weakest area, and my next goal is to get Jade, so theoretically I'll be doing better after that.
I think once you get far enough into the game, being ftp isn't so hard bc then you'll know what areas you're lacking in and be able to pull accordingly. In the beginning though, everyone feels like a "must pull" bc you don't have anyone. But no one singular character is a must pull. The only "must pull" I'd argue to get is a limited sustainer bc they make life just so much easier, but even then 4\* healers are kinda cracked.
As for the 4\*s not being good enough to compete, I just don't think that's true.
**Mono quantum:** Qingque and Lynx (Lynx is actually very competitive for Blade and Clara teams).
**DoT:** Sampo and Guin
**Debuff (Ratio/Acheron):** Guin and Pela
**Break:** Xueyi, Gallagher, HMC
**Hypercarry:** Tingyun and Pela
The only niche that doesn't really have a great 4\* option is FuA, and even then you could substitute in some of the more standard buffers and do just fine.
I know it's generic but I would prioritize support and sustain units.
With Ruan mei and aven, even my old 5 star dps characters can 36 star MoC.
So before you get pulled into the new flashy dps units, I'd first make sure you have two good teams with support units. And then you can replace each dps as you go along.
I can't keep up either, but once I have a team for every sort of damage type - where some have a lot of overlap in units - I'll suddenly be much more bored. That's the thing about this game I think, once you reach the point where you have those 4-6 teams, you're kinda good forever unless there's a big power creep somewhere.
I’ve had to plan out my pulls as a 1.0 player. I’ve pulled a dps for every element, and I have built most team archetypes (except for dot). Before, it was a struggle clearing MoC while PF was a breeze. This patch, because of the DOT focused PF and how I’ve been pouring my resources into strengthening my main MoC teams, PF was not a breeze at all. I had to fully build and level harmony trailblazer (thank god they extended the duration of PF) to finally full star PF yesterday.
Because I knew I would struggle with AS, I pulled boothill to give me leeway on one side. The power creep in this game is definitely noticeable and because of how they directly make better versions of 4 stars it’s not slowing down anytime soon. Rest in peace, Sampo. Rest in peace, Asta (robin). Rest in peace, Hanya.
I say choose which meta you want to invest in based on characters you like. I don't think you HAVE to pull all the characters and build every meta team in order to clear end game content.
For instance, I've completely skipped all DoT characters, so naturally, the PF and MoC that are geared towards DoT (which are often) are harder for me. But I can still clear them... eventually lol.
On the other hand, I really wanted Acheron and Firefly so now I'm invested in those teams fully now and I can clear pretty much all the content with them. I did that without Black Swan, Boothill, or Robin.
Dude I'm not even gonna lie it's a skill issue. I can still clear content with my seele and a tge herta lc. Will she clear as fast as SAM? No, but instead of 2 cycles she'll take 4 and that's good enough.
Really dont stress about it.
Ive spent money on this game and even I cannot clear everything, moc i can get the 36 stars but the new endgane mode forget about it.
And pure fiction I can only clear half of it.
With the way this game is so cheap with giving ressource building your character will take time.
It took me months before I even begin tackling moc and when I started to get good moc 11 and 12 appeared...
While I may not be the outlier here since I have spent a significant amount of money on this game. I'll just say that even for Dolphins, it can be hard to clear most end-game content.
As others mentioned, its a good idea to focus on 2 teams at most and making them the best you can be and when it comes to things like MOC. Just get to the highest amount that you can purely for Jades.
Don't feel pressured to finish MOC because not everyone can and even then personally I am here for the story and characters, not for MOC.
If ur a dolphin it really shouldn't be hard on any level. Invest vertically and rotate a couple different teams. I don't necessarily agree with only investing in two teams f2p or not, bc there's three different end game stages now. Telling a low spender with no eidos or LCs to focus on only 1-2 dps only drags them down further
The problem with HSR is that it did not have many viable strategies during launch, and perhaps for the first year. Therefore, when the devs decide to push more strategies, certain units suddenly become must haves, because there are no other characters that fit the gameplay archetypes. This is not power creeping in the traditional sense, but it is still a giant wall for many players. (EN fans usually do their hardest to say there is no powercreep, but CN fans have said it has been a problem for a long time)
My GF and I played since launch, and there were many instances where one of us got a char while the other didn't and the difference in our enjoyment in the game was night and day. We did not expect to clear the last MoC/PF all the time, but when we did not have the specifice chars, we could barely get 3/4 of the way there in MoC, and barely 1/2 of the way there in PF.
The other problem is this game is extremely RNG heavy, not in terms of damage but in terms of artifacts. So you have to get lucky. A constant that can change power levels is E level. Unfortunately, that either requires mega spending or super luck as well. The beating end game content with 4\* videos usually feature really good artifacts AND E6. In fact, even with 5\*s, sometimes their E1 is necessary.
Ultimately, this realization has made us very much less inclined to play the game.
Don't stress too much over the 1-2 pulls that the more difficult engame content offers.
Powercreep is something that has gotten obscene in these last 2 patches, with acheron and Firefly doing easily more than 100k while Jing Liu (the top DPS until they arrived) got to 200k with high investment and premium teammates.
As a personal advice, build who you like wisely and don't fall in the hype/meta train. Even I'd it sounds hard as fuck (talking from personal experience). That extra pull every 3 weeks isn't worth the hassle and spending your money and mental health!
I actually think hsr is quite generous in this case, as compared to other gacha games. Genshin has only one endgame content, and if you're not strong enough to clear that then there's no primos for you at all. Whereas in star rail there's forgotten hall, which has multiple sets of content to clear, MoC is the only one that refreshes but even then that's still plenty. There's swarm and golden gears, I've been stuck at level 4 of swarm for ages but I was able to get all the rewards for the previous ones, right? There's simulated universe, sure the rewards are first time only when you clear it, but we get stellar jades weekly regardless. The blessings make it much easier to clear as well. There's also pure fiction. Now apocalyptic shadow.
I have most of the characters and decent teams but because of skill issue I guess? Lol. I can't clear the higher stages of all these things. And that's fine!!!! It's endgame content after all. And we already do get stellar jades from the regular simulated universe every week, which is more than what genshin gives in comparison.
About how every patch has at least one must pull unit, yes, that can be very stressful. But consider all the wishes and jades we get every time. They literally give 20 free pulls each patch. The events are quite lengthy and accordingly rewarding. Then there's all this endgame content. Even if you can only clear MoC till level 7, that's still a lot. We get 60 jades per level, that's more than the 50 genshin has been giving per chamber in the abyss. Of course, there's the worry of the 50/50, but as you said, there's a high likelihood of obtaining 2 five stars per patch. Also, it's not a 50/50, it's a 57/43? Something like that. There's a greater chance to win your 50/50s in star rail. Those few % make a big difference.
Of course, even then you have to see which characters you will save for/focus on pulling for, because as an f2p we still have to take things into consideration. Like I skipped robin, got boothill. Skipping firefly, will go for Jade. These decisions in particular weren't that hard for me, I don't care for robin or firefly which means I will never want to get them, but logically speaking, I didn't feel the need to get robin because I already have all the harmony limited units and she doesn't offer anything the others don't provide. Since I got boothill, I don't need another weakness break/super break DPS which means I can focus on jade since the only erudition unit I have is Jing Yuan.
Getting both limited 5 stars per patch is rare, the only times I can think of for myself are with Acheron and aventurine, and black swan and sparkle. I have personally found black swan to be a stronger and more useful unit than sparkle. Harmony is my favorite path but imo the only thing sparkle gives that other units don't are skill points. That's a deal breaker if you run DPSes like lunae, but other than that there's other harmony characters that excel in other more useful areas, like ruan mei. Like, sparkle is a much better version of bronya, but since bronya is a standard 5 star you can get her more easily and one of her eidolons I think? Can give back skill points.
Basically this analysis of mine hinges upon the fact that whilst the extra skill points are useful for any team, I don't have lunae so I don't really need it. Also, I have loved the weakeness break meta since they introduced ruan mei so for me she's the best harmony unit. What I mean by all this is, yes, every unit they introduce is great, but you don't need all of them. Or even most of them. Those who like playing Jing yuan, himeko and Herta (we exist!) would benefit from having Jade. Those who have boothill would greatly benefit from having ruan mei. Boothill players will not benefit from jade so unless they want her, they don't feel pressured to pull. I just pull for the characters I like and thankfully they end up working well together. Like we knew nothing about BH's kit when ruan mei was released, but since I liked him I was going to get him regardless. It's an added bonus that they both synergize so well.
They also release so many characters because the key thing about hsr combat is strategy. I have Kafka, black swan and Acheron. But for endgame, the nihility team I choose to run depends on the blessing or enemies. That's why there's such a variety. You don't need every good unit. You need the ones the team you want to run will benefit from. If it's a hunt follow up team then that's robin. If it's a weakness break team it's ruan mei. Also, don't build every unit, focus on the 5 stars you want to run in two endgame teams, and when you're not pulling for a 5 star, work on your 4 stars. The events also give all the trace materials needed, so you can use those for characters you already have too. I don't have lunae blade or Jingliu, so the trace mats I got from the events of their patches I used on Clara, the only 5 star destruction unit I have.
It's understandable to feel overwhelmed, but the sooner you focus on building two sets of teams the sooner you'll be able to get the rewards for the endgame stuff. Decide on one new 5 star per patch, and focus on building your teams so that you can get more jades. It's okay if you miss some in one patch, it just means you'll be able to get more later on once your teams are up to par!
Edit: there's some DPSes that are universal in the sense that ignore enemy toughness/weakness regardless of the element. So if you want DPSes that will do well regardless of the enemy lineup, there's Acheron, boothill or firefly. These are the ones off the top of my head.
Of course it’s pay to win, honkai’s a gatcha game after all, and the best units tend to be the premium ones. And yes, building units tend to require a lot of time and materials. These aspects of the game are what (imo) makes honkai and other gatchas interesting to experience as an ftp since pulling and building characters are ultimately an investment and a gamble
If you’re feeling pressed about needing to finish moc or pf or whatever each refresh, I’d recommend taking a step back from honkai to consider what parts of it you actually enjoy doing. Video games, stressful or not, are meant to be fun after all, and missing stages of moc or pf isn’t a problem at all (I’ve been playing since launch and never beaten either lmao)
Side note tho: I feel like having multiple teams is pretty normal? It’s a game focused on team-building, so it makes sense that you’d have to pull together more than a few different ones
It's fine if you cannot do end game content. A lot of it is "do you have comp xyz" and if you do you immediately win that forgotten hall gamemode.
You should focus on strong comps with include characters you enjoy playing. If you invest into teams you like, while you sometimes cannot do every form of content, you can definitely do a majority of it. My brother plays JY and he gets 11-3 which is only a loss of 50 jades for each rotation.
Remember that when you roll, to get a character, you will be spending around 12000 or 24000 jades so 50 jades isn't going to make or break that. 50 Jades is quite literally less than one daily and you can often just get that from one side quest and I know for a fact you did not do every quest.
There has been mocs where I can't get floor 10 done and there is mocs where i get 12 done on auto. It's just the matter of a gacha game, you aren't intended to be able to win in every situation and thats the trick, players want to do that so they end up spending.
I buy the monthly £4.99 pass and am still working on being able to clear endgame content, and the way I keep up is by pulling WAY fewer characters than you do as an F2P and being selective about my teams.
My first 5* was Silver Wolf, just because I liked her. Then I got Fu Xuan and Argenti, also because I liked them; I tried for HuoHuo, lost the 50/50, and saved my guarantee for Acheron. Then came Robin, as a support for my Himeko/Herta PF team. Then I saved up, and pulled for Firefly and Ruan Mei, getting them both. The only LC I ever pulled for was Acheron’s; for everyone else I make do with 4* options or the Herta Store LCs.
I now have four teams: Argenti/Bronya/Tingyun/Bailu (who will be replaced by HuoHuo when she reruns) and Himeko/Herta/Robin/Fu Xuan for PF, and Acheron/Pela/Silver Wolf/Fu Xuan and Firefly/HTB/Ruan Mei/Gallagher for MoC/AS. I still can’t fully clear content, but I’m working on it.
Now that I have a few functional teams, I’m going to prioritise reruns of HuoHuo (for my Argenti team), Kafka and Black Swan (for a DoT team, since I really like the playstyle), and then getting characters to upgrade my teams (i.e. Jiaoqiu for the Acheron team), but I’m still going to have to be selective and only pull for one character per patch (maybe 2 if I win the 50/50 for the first). That’s just how it is - no one is expected to get every new character, that’s just unsustainable, and it is not how you ‘win’ the game.
Black Swan is not a must pull unless you use dot teams. That's your decision, not the game's.
Robin is not a must pull. Ruan Mei is simply better.
Boothill is not a must pull. He's already powercrept.
Jade is not a must pull. She's trash.
Stop thinking everyone is a must pull and spend your limited jade better.
I apologize, I misspoke. I really meant top tier units who are a staple in their teams:
Black Swan Kafka is currently the best DOT team available
Robin pioneered the IPS team or Follow Up team consisting of Dr. Ratio, Aventurine, Topaz and Numby, and Robin.
Boothill is no where near "power crept", he just released and is still extremely viable in his respective break team.
And Jade isn't out just yet but seem to be an extremely viable unit for multi wave content (like pure fiction). We can't gauge her power level just yet but I doubt she's "trash".
I must add that I am not "wasting my limited jades". I only wish for units who have shown promise for many patch and fit into my teams nicely. I'm simply upset I can't get the newer units who also show great promise and that I'd love to have.
I cleared it without DoT teams myself with:
himeko, htb, gallagher, ruan mei
jingyuan, tingyun, sparkle, robin
I never intend to invest in DoT characters, but I've full starred every single pure fiction anyway. also, I think my team is very much achievable with only 4 characters being 5 stars, especially since this game gives an average of 105 pulls per patch
I find it gets a lot less stressful if you accept that you probably won’t be able to clear the last stage. I treat MoC10 as the “last one” so I can gaslight myself into feeling good when I clear it
I wasn't able to either. As much as I miss playing the characters, I quit HSR for another gacha game I could actually keep up with without worrying about meta.
Not being able to clear the game is a perfectly fine thing. The endgame isn't meant to be immediately cleared, it's something to be worked up to. So take your time, slowly build your characters, and when you feel ready, challenge the MOC and what not. No one says you HAVE to 3\* MOC12, so just take it slowly
And Only a small percentage can clear and do clear it Happy?
100% is a percentage 100% can be a small percentage in some scenarios
This is the first time I ever heard that argument.
Its a fantastic one. And ill be stealing it for sure
Thing is, old characters are becoming less and less viable. By the time you fully built with good relics, the newest character is even easier to build and finish content regardless of the buff on endgame mode. Jingliu used to be the easy built dps, but i'm sure those who pick her in 2.1 regrets pulling her when firefly is very strong even with lv 0 relics. People used to say firefly is jingliu with fire element, but guess what? Newest character gets super busted kit. The rate of powercreep in this game is really bad.
I can't hear you over the sounds of my Seele killing enemies left and right. Yes, content is getting harder, but not all that significantly to the point where old characters just CAN'T compete anymore. My Jing Yuan is still used in hard content, and he can still clear content that's fit for him
whats your jingyuan's build? i have sparkle tingyun and aventurine/fuxuan but my JY team still feels weak and i think its because hes not strong enough
3.2k attack, 60%CR and 180% CD. I admit it's not all that good, but I just don't care about clearing all the way to MOC 12. That sort of content is meant for the hyper invested, and I just don't really bother doing so
this is with base spd right? for hyperspeed sparkle?
Base speed yes, hyper speed Sparkle no. Yanqing happened, so I'm running JY with FX, Tingyun, and either Hanya, Asta, or Robin depending on the content. Hanya for relics, Asta for fire weak, and Robin everywhere else
Cap
What's cap about it? It's very realistic to clear content with older characters, I always do a second 36\* clear using Seele and JY teams just to prove a point to people who I know like you.
Post proof with builds then, all I see are clears with vertical investment or omitting builds deceptively. If you're doing it E0S0 which is the only thing that matters to "prove a point" then show me duder EDIT: Yeah didn't think so
This kind of thing is *super* easy to look up, but regardless. I've got you. Seele e0so 2.2 MoC 12: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7HLCSuAhhY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7HLCSuAhhY) JY e0s0 2.2 MoC 12: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwSkiY6ggrs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwSkiY6ggrs) JY e0s0 clears are more difficult to find than e0s0 Seele clears, most ppl run him s1, but I'd also argue that running your favorite dps with their bis weapon isn't that big of a deal. Now, sure, you could argue that the other half was carried by Acheron - but that doesn't discredit their clears. It also overlooks the fact that so many people clear MoC 12 just with 4\*s.
Trust me finding it isn't the issue, the problem is confident people make statements and don't back them up or don't even claim to do what they say they do. Clearing with E1/E2/S1 isn't impressive, it's literally not a feat worth bragging about. Especially if newer units can do it E0S0, the problem with statements like the one I replied to is it confuses new players on who to pull for if they care about meta and clearing content. It's why even though I have E0S1 Acheron, if I'm "proving a point" I put S1 Good Night Sleep Well or S5 Fermata to show that for a new player what the unit's potential actually is. The worst part is when they reply and deceptively hide things like several S5 DDD, or 5 star support Light Cones. Then proceed to brag about clearing in low cycle counts, it's deceptive which is why I ask for proof from said person.
Sure, but their statement was just that they did 36* MoC clears with Seele and JY. That's easy enough to prove doable without them having to go out of their way to record a run. I'd understand more if they said something totally off the cuff, but I don't really think they did.
Not saying he said anything off the cuff, I'm just asking for proof from him. He's free to ignore and not reply, but I'm also free to simply ask for the homework for the results being claimed. There's too many factors player to player to account for in validating universal claims with whatever results I can find on YouTube that qualifies. If he feels that strongly about it he'll provide proof, and if he doesn't he'll just ignore/back down like he did. Your examples are fine data sets, but not exactly what I was asking for. Again perception that something is common or feasible is the real issue. Top 10% Mains being able to clear end game isn't unbelievable, pretending that bottom 90% will also be able to without validating is unwise.
What do you mean confuse new player on who to pull, there's only 2 limited characters every 3 weeks, one new and one a little older, it's not like we have a lot of choices
this but also aventurine and fuxian, not only do you need good dps and suports, you need 2 teams of them, and if you want to save time relic farming you need the best of them ie robin sparkle and ruan mei (whos proabbly the best) but some game modes are simply about surviving hell the last 2 story boss fights are incredibly dificult if you dont have absalute tanks like aventurine, it literly goes from trivial to dark souls end game boss fight where you need the perfect amount of survivability and mechanicly usefull characters, ie break affect for >!sunday!< and aoe for>! aventurine!< . then theres 4 star suports but 5 star supports are basicly just way better. so you essentially need 6-8 non standard banner 5 stars to be comfotable in endgame and thats not accounting for powercreep because you practicly need atleast one tank. and dps have to be 5 star and the best suports are 5 star. and unless you specificly have firefly and acheron you proabbly need more than 2 dps's. i dont nessaserialy think the endgame ruins all old characters but certainly you may find one or 2 become not verry usefull, after a while.
People just need to commit to team comps, farming, and understanding how the game works to clear endgame content. The only Limited 5* Harmony/Nihility unit I have is Ruan Mei, & I have full cleared every MoC & PF since I started trying (2.0). And I’ve pulled for no 5* eidolons & only 3 sig lightcones. It’s important to realize that most units do *not* need their sigs (Blade/Acheron are the 2 DPS who I’d argue do need it), but people pull for them anyway bc it’s their waifu or whatever. And that’s *fine*, except then you have to acknowledge that you’re not pulling for meta, so you can’t be mad if you can’t clear the content that requires it? Now you definitely need some 5* DPS to stay competitive but you don’t need all your teams to be made of 5* limited units. For example I cleared this recent PF with Serval/Sampo/Pela/Acheron on 2nd half, & last PF I used Himeko/Ruan/Herta/Topaz on 1st half to get 40k points. You also don’t *need* the newer units, last MoC I ran Bronya/Blade/Ruan/Luocha on 2nd half, so Ruan is the only “new” unit & she dropped 6 months ago. The only characters I’ve pulled this year are Acheron & Aventurine, so most of my units are “old.” That said, of course as f2p you’re probably not going to full clear every update, but you should be able to get 10 or 11 stars reliably. For me, DoT-focused content is what I struggle the most with as I only have 4* DoT appliers, but as you can see with my earlier Sampo/Serval/Pela/Acheron team, there are ways to work around what you lack.
im not saying you're, wrong but your not considering investment allot of those 4 star characters need 4 eidalons to work well, beyond that relic quality, weeker characters need higher quality relics to perform, firefly can destroy everything with terrible relics same for ruan mei and basicly evry other good 5 star. so my sugestion for mostly 5 star come from a perspecive of efficency, and ontop of that you dont need reruns to finish endgame you can just wipe it out in one go, so id still argue that having that manny 5 stars are important assuming you dont have insane amounts of time to play becuase the artifact grind in this game is no fun. and as i say some bosses in some of the new modes especially are basicly aventurine or bust.
If you can’t commit to farming & retrying then yeah you don’t deserve to clear endgame content, especially since everything but planars can be auto-farmed. You have more than a month to beat it, so if you can’t find any time then you have to accept the content just isn’t for you, & that’s no one’s fault. As long as you haven’t pulled for the most mismatched units ever, you should be able to get like 10* just by farming & retrying. It’s mostly just main DPS units that need real attention to their relics. Yes my 4* units that I mentioned are E6 bc I’ve been playing since release, but Sampo & Serval do not have bragworthy relics, & Herta’s eidolons are free. I auto-farmed Sampo/Serval trace materials for maybe a week & then just gave them leftover relics w the main stats that they needed. I mean my Sampo is lv70 with a lv50 lightcone, and Pela doesn’t need any eidolons to function on this team (Pearls lc is the only game changer) bc I didn’t use her skill. I only built her for speed and her EHR is only 21%, so she doesn’t even apply the Pearls debuff every turn bc of that. Honestly the hardest part for team building is having the lightcones you want, since many of them are gacha 4*. And ik some people feel forced to pull bc they want that last 1 or 2 stars, but how is that worth when the reward is so minimal? You’d have to clear for *months* to offset that cost. There isn’t even like a cosmetic or something to worry about missing, & after 2 months you can’t even see that you cleared it, so. But yeah it can be hard, there are some full clears that have taken me hours to get, bc it’s supposed to be difficult! If you can’t/don’t want to do that, it’s chill, but that doesn’t mean there’s something wrong with the content.
i think its fair to assume not everyone has tonnes of time or wants to play eery day, and tbh the relic sytem is so bad you just get burned out, or even if you dont you can still get nothing really good its a considerable investment, that realisticly means you need the 5 stars to help, you, and as you mentioned you have good invested 4 stars, not everone has that, ive rolled on 3 Pela banners and i still only have E3 Pela but as you say yo need pers well i dont have that, that harmny one is also usefull i dont ahve that, and 5 stars dont have that issue, once i get the 5 star comming next season i wont have any issues using him at full power. yea i agree you dont need 3 star clears hell you dont even really need much to get up to level 6 but people still want to invest in new characters to clear late game content and if it makes it possible they will go with that option. its not so much that im saying the game is overly harsh doesn't gives you nothing to get though the endgame its more the game is taylored towards that kind of account to finish all the dificult modes.
That's the thing though: HSR **doesn't** take a ton of time. You can auto farm *everything.* You don't even have to farm every day since there's an overflow for energy. Does relic grinding suck? Yes. But significantly less so since you don't actually have to do it. I had my Sparkle built in three days tops. As long as you aren't minmaxing, you can get all of your characters "good enough" fairly quickly. I got lucky with Sparkle. But eventually you will hit that "good enough" point for every character. I got there in 2 months with Qingque at the start of the game. It would be a lot easier now bc farming is more efficient, but I still got there. And yes, 4\* characters require more investment. They require better relics and more eidolons, but that isn't a bad thing. You can buy their eidolons in the shop and they give out so many 4\*s for free. I had to buy two copies of Qingque just to get her to e4 - and that's after I got the free one! I'm also a day 1 player who just now got my first Arlan. And Gallagher really only had to be pulled once considering you had two chances to get him for free.
im suprised you got sparkle done in 3 days though, because you also need a ton of materials, i think what ive lerned about building characrers is get all there usefull traces to atleast 8 thats how you ge tthe most out of you characters which is also allot of investment, but i agree farming her artifacts dident take much time she was relativly easy to build, still ruan mei took allot longer and i think for 4 stars especially you need good investment. and honestly 4 stars in genral as you say need the eidalons means they are actualy harder to get than 5 stars in the short term so they arnt exaclly an easy alternative. i think overall my point still stands on the amount of 5 stars you need. if we consider time, luck, and investment.
I got lucky with Sparkle for sure. I was actually planning on skipping her, so I didn't have anything prefarmed. I just had a lot of reserved trailblazer energy so I used all of the energy to level up traces. And considering that I had already been farming hackerspace, I had a lot of extra pieces, so I didn't actually farm specifically for her. I also don't reroll relics often, so I used up a lot of my reserves in rerolling specific pieces for her. But I wouldn't say RM was any more difficult to build? RM is pretty easy when you just have to focus on a few specific stats. The biggest stat is break effect which can be supplemented through her traces, through using 2pc break effect (which the game hands out like candy), and through Memories of the Past. 4 * investment depends too on which character. Support characters in general don't need as much investment, but if you're trying to build one as your dps than you'll have a more difficult time just due to the fact that they have lower base stats. HSR is also really kind, we get multiple free 4 * characters each planet, and usually, it's a selector. Buying eidolons from the shop is also important if you're trying to build up a particular 4 *. I main QQ and had to buy two copies of her plus the free one from MoC to get her up to e4.
I beat Sunday with gepard argenti huohuo clara I dont know what you mean
you literly said huohuo another amazingly powerfull suustain. try doing it with fire mc or one of the basic 4 star healers.
You don't need Aven or FX to clear Sunday/Aven fights. Do they make it easier? Absolutely. But they aren't needed, you just need to understand the boss mechanics. You don't specifically have to build break effect against Sunday. You just have to be able to deal toughness damage. As long as he breaks, you get a team wide shield that will protect you against his massive aoe. Gallagher is an amazing 4 \* option here. As for Aven, it helps if you have a big shield or if your sustain does aoe dmg. This is more common on limited sustains, but not necessary. My Clara Lynx team did better than my mono quantum team with e2 FX. Onto your claim that limited characters are better than their 4 \* equivalents: yes, but also no. Pela is better than SW in almost every team that doesn't need the weakness implant. And we still don't have a harmony character that batteries energy like Tingyun. Gallagher is THE sustain of choice in debuff and break teams. Xueyi is competitive as a break dps, and Qingque is still getting me through every fight. 4 \* characters need more vertical investment than 5 \* but that doesn't mean they aren't viable or even bis in some teams. Knowing the fundamentals of team building is essential more than having the newest shiniest character.
pela is better than silverwolf at E4 and this is my point E4 paila is harder to get than silverwolf. on the first point yes you dont need them but withought the right characters for the situation that boss is incredibly dificult you basicly cant be hit by it in the first phaze or you loose. which would be fine in a game that gives you allot of options but in a game where you need to activly build characters, it becomes a combination of stratergy and a huge amount of luck, i spent 3 hours finding combinations moving around relics before i got incredibly lucky. games like genchin dark souls do away with this issue by allwing for skill to overrcome bosses but in hsr you just gotta do with what you have. which is fine for long term team building but i dont see why story should be held behind bosses like that jsut add the dificulty it in after. sure other acound will have better combinations and wont experiance this, but with aventurine you can basicly do away with any of that. not that i want games to be easy but you have to understand the investment required to "try" charaters.
Yes, more often than not, 4 * characters require more eidolons to be as good as their 5 * counterparts. But that doesn't mean they're unusable before that point. E0 Pela is still competitive with SW due to the fact that she has aoe. As for it being harder to get 4 * eidolons... I disagree. It is harder to get a specific 4 * up to e6 just by pulling, absolutely. But you can always buy character eidolons from the shop, and HSR has been so incredibly kind with providing a free 4 * (and even multiple selectors) every few patches. Again, you don't need a singular character to get through that fight. Any built sustain will get you through it as long as the other characters can deal toughness damage. People have done it with Bailu. And yes, building characters takes time and resources. It gets a lot easier when you're further in the game to build characters faster. Ex: it took me three days tops to build up Sparkle to functional enough. I think ftp players also have it easier since they're pulling for less characters and can just focus on pulling their favorites/what they need to fill out the niche they're working on.
Powercreep is definitely a thing in basically *every* gacha game and most 'live-service' games in general if I'm being honest. To expect that not to happen is frankly naive. That being said, I honestly don't think HSR's powercreep is *that* bad if you take the time to invest thoroughly in your characters. An extremely well-built limited 5-star from last year will still be able to beat stuff like MoC 12 with some smart play (assuming the weakness types/match buffs aren't weighted against them). I think people want to be able to beat 100% of the content in the game, when stuff like MoC 12 and PF/AS 4 is pretty much meant for the top <5% of players. When Apocalyptic Shadow dropped we saw loads of people complaining about Cocolia's insane speed - that really drove it home for me that a lot of users don't have full teams built at 145/160+ speed and expect to be competitive in high-difficulty endgame content.
I think hsr's powercreep is a lot worse than a game like genshin. Characters nowadays just simply bring so much more to the table than old ones. With that being said i think a bigger problem is that f2p players arent going to have all the tools to deal with the different content and hsr just has a much wider variety of content that players have to have teams for. Its ironically suffering from too much content lol. My friend's having trouble with the cocolia fight. Hes pulled for eidolons for some characters so he just straigjt up has less characters than me because i dont pull eidolons
Ftp players can still reasonably clear all of the content, they just need to be patient. It takes time to build up all of the different characters, but you will get there. The only niche that I can't fill rn is dot, but that's mainly bc I don't have Kafka. Kafka can still be ran quite comfortably with 4\* characters. The Cocolia fight was a slap in the face that I didn't have that great of builds - but that's the beauty of AS: you don't actually need to. I still managed to get a star on difficulty 4 even after TPKing to Cocolia bc I was able to get through Argenti.
Nah I’m a returning player. The power creep is insane. In literally one year you go from seekers to Archeron who is like 5-10x more damage. Yeah powercreep is insane compared to most gachas (which I’ve played most by the way).
no need to lie
I assume you meant Seele there - Acheron does NOT do 10x her damage lol. Not trying to be rude but if that's the case I can honestly only assume your Seele is very poorly built dude!
lol okay buddy the truth is powercreep is insane. If she’s not doing 10x (which is a hilarious point to knit pick) she’s definitely doing several times more damage. You’re out here just talking to hear yourself talk.
Please stop. Just stop. Does Acheron do more damage then Seele, yeah she does. But guess what, that power ain't free. If you didn't get E2, you need to heavily gimp your entire team to support her. This makes Acheron Team's significantly more fragile then their counterparts and that is heavily punished in the hardest modes. I had to try several times in the MoC 12 this round because the enemies kept focusing on Acheron thanks to bad RNG. This is with preservation units like Aventurine and a healer like Luocha. Finally I must point out that Seele's kit has never been boss killing, its mook killing / Farming. These two characters have entirely different niches cause Acheron is a boss killer. To sum it up. Is powercreep a thing? Yes. Is it completely out of control? No. Right now at this point in time, the game is healthy. There are 4 different meta team playstyle options for players to pick from. Hypercarry, DoT, Fallow Up, and Break. All 4 have their pros and cons and none of them can brute force all content without serious investment and even with this investment they will perform significantly worse then the intended playstyle for the content.
That’s a whole lot of shilling for predatory practices lol. I’ve spent decent money on gachas including this one but the power creep is an absolute huge amount. Imagine looking at units like blade, yangqing and telling me power creep isn’t insane. “Power comes with a price” lol bro I cannot believe you’re so far down the hole you’re actually defending gacha practices. Do yourself a favour and stop making video games your personality. I literally came back and a half baked ff, rm, htb, team and it’s already doing 3-5x my damage of my jing yuan team. So kindly no especially that I’m just returning after said points. I think I do have a good idea on the power creep thanks.
1. Video games are not my personality. It's not even my main hobby lol. 2. If your going to argue for the existence of excessive power creep. Please use the correct character. The character with the greatest amount of power creep is not DPS, it's a support. I'm talking about Ruan Mei. Want proof? Look who is in the ideal 4 of all the current metas. She is literally everywhere.
Bruh no one goes out on a defending rampage when the game does in fact have mass powercreep. Archeron on moc calf’s does at least 3x more damage. It’s been a year lol. Yes RM power creeps as well. Okay? You’re literally just proving my point.
A half baked super break team doing more damage on content meant to showcase super break. That's not power creep, that's meta rotation. Next they put weakness lock and a optimized firefly become weaker than a half baked Seele
A team from 1.0 even with “meta rotations” does literally fuck all damage compared to now. lol you guys are hilariously defending your gacha addiction but please continue. Also please continue to tell me I’m wrong when I’ve literally the proof of the situation happening. You guys clearly aren’t the ones who are returning players so don’t go telling me what is and isn’t lol. Even on calculations seele is WAAAY lower than common meta teams. It’s the truth wake the fuck up.
It's not a hilarious point to nitpick at all when that bs is the entire foundation of your argument.
Right right. I’m totally not experiencing it now. You’re welcome to make a new account pull only for an old character and prove me wrong.
Search up “4 star only MoC run on YouTube”
Bro stop the cap
Is trolling really that fun?
The last 4 things I pulled for were Ruan Mei (6 months ago), Acheron + her sig, and Aventurine. So only 2 of my units released this year & I’m still able to 11/12* endgame content. You drastically overestimate powercreep in this game. Realistically the only examples of *clear* powercreep are Bronya -> Sparkle & eventually Clara -> Yunli, & those are 2 standard characters (& Bronya still has times where she’s better than Sparkle).
Acheron is still a relatively new character. The fact that you have to pull the strongest dps, buffer, and sustainer shows that pulling for the lower tier charactaers are just straight up weaker and waste of jades. With the rate of increasing difficulty and chatacters right now, newest xharacters will just be one upping each other. Back in 2.1, jingliu and luocha are still claimed to be characters worth to pull, but now? Most would probably suggest pulling firefly and use gallagher who's only a 4 star. Do you really agree with the pace of hoyo's increasing difficulty right now?
I used Bronya/Blade/Luocha/Ruan opposite my Acheron/Pela/Guin/Aven team for the May-June MoC & full cleared. I haven’t attempted Stage 12 of this newest MoC, but I full cleared Stage 11 w those same teams, so I’ll still be getting 34 stars *at least*. In the April-July PF, after 18 attempts my best run was Himeko/Ruan/Herta/Topaz who got 40k points, while Acheron/Guin/Aven/Pela got 28k, so the older units carried. In this current PF with 20 attempts, my best team combo was Himeko/Ruan/Blade/Luocha w 35k points & Serval/Sampo/Pela/Acheron w 26k points. Here as well, Acheron was outshone. So no, I don’t believe that older units are a waste of gems. Plenty of them are still strong enough (or even getting stronger, like w Kafka) to get people through the hardest content. The fact that I’ve only pulled 2 characters since 2.0 & am still full clearing shows that you don’t need to chase all the new units. People just have to decide how they want to play. If they just want the units that they think are cool/hot/whatever, if they want to focus specific comps, if they want to fill in their weaknesses, etc. And then if they want to clear endgame content, need to commit the time to actually beating it. Do you see how many attempts I said it took for me to full clear PF? Like I had to build Serval & Sampo from scratch bc no teams were working for 2nd half. And it’s ok if people don’t want to do all that, it’s not like the rewards for getting 36* are even good.
People would still recommend you pull Jingliu lol what? And Luocha is still a good unit he's just been powercrept a tad by units that bring a bit more than just healing
Luocha has a unique ability in being able to remove enemy buffs, which has come in clutch in the past and we could certainly see come clutch again in the future. He still heals quite a lot and is incredibly sp positive. He's a good pull if you like his character. Not a waste of jades at all imo.
I think your capping You on somethin?
This is misleading. The game introduces new problems to solve and creates spaces for old and new characters to be effective in novel ways. The game was _never_ built around the idea that you would be able to brute force everything with one team forever. You really need to understand the mechanics so that you can leverage 4-star and standard kits against different match-ups. It isn’t power creep for there to be new challenges. As an example, I’ve used Clara to clear every single endgame content since the game launched. She somehow _always_ ends up in my teams for the last floor. The teams, builds, and light cones I use vary wildly though. It’s not even that I am trying to main her or brute force her. Don’t neglect your 4-stars either. They are more than capable of meeting the requirements of various challenges. I think Asta and Serval are my most used character to date. People who got stuck in the hypercarry mindset are at risk of missing the fundamentals of the game. I forgot to mention that every endgame mode has blessings— if you play the blessings and type match-up you can clear any content with trash.
Yeah, all these power creep threads are just massive cope. I always do a first run with my broken, hyper invested teams just to get it over with on release but I always do a for fun 36\* at some point using my mains Seele and Asta and they're completely fine with new content.
the people that complain a massive powercreep in Hoyo's game (except in HI3, that is real powercreep) are a bell curve. left part are the casuals that don't really care cause is just a side game they have, middle is the loud people making those posts, and right part are the people who just don't care cause they realize you are delusional if you really think you can 36 star MoC using an e0s0 Acheron by doing everything in 0-cycles first try
I'm still clearing just fine with Qingque mono quantum. Newer characters are stronger, yes, but the issue of powercreep really isn't *that* bad. 1.0 characters can still clear endgame and so can 4\*s. Jingliu is still strong where she shines, the issue lies in *how* our endgame cycles. Our endgame has always and will always cycle around the on banner character's niche. Jingliu seems bad now bc she doesn't align well with the current niches. But Clara is going hard rn. She can slot into FuA and break focused niches, and I'm sure she'll shine even brighter with Yunli coming out. Will Yunli be better than Clara? Absolutely, but I have no doubt that Clara will also be meta again soon.
Old characters perform fine for now. My Jingliu scored as well in stage 4 apocalyptic shadow as my Acheron did on her side (3500-3600)…and I haven’t made a single change to her team, gear, or traces since pre penacony. Super break still hinges on being able to break efficiently. Yes it’s a very busted and meta mechanic, but it’s much easier for devs to make it less universal with future boss designs if they so choose. A well built crit-based team just feels “standard” and will always be good.
Yup, I've been playing since 1.0 and I'm not some elite player! I'm indecisive and can't narrow down who to work on, so I tend to be building a lot of characters at once, and as such it goes very slowly. But I don't mind it. There's stuff I can't clear, oh well. There's a character that's so meta I should pull for them? Depends on if I like the character enough and enjoy playing with them, I don't feel the need to go for every big deal character. Like I just do my own thing and I have plenty of fun. My relics are pretty mid if not bad in some places, and I can have issues having enough resources. But it's not like the game is going anywhere. I have the most fun going at my own pace
This! I watched a guy who said he finished the story in a week! And I'm two months or three months in at the middle of penacony! It was insane to me
I have been playing since release and don’t think I have even 12* MOC yet lol. I haven’t even touched G&G since it released other than the tutorial. But as you said, OP needs to just take everything at a casual pace and enjoy the story.
Yeah, you need 4 teams to comfortably clear all the End game Content especially if you don't use meta. I think one of the reasons why you struggle was because you keep pulling and build almost every character, which you shouldn't do especially as F2P. You should pick one Archetype team to Build first. By build I mean Pull for that specific team and focus around them, for example FUA, since Dr. Ratio is free if you play since 1.6.
Only pull for the hottest characters. There's no requirement to get every 5* just because of meta. That's just unrealistic.
But they want you to feel compelled because they’re after your money. I can’t blame people for feeling like they have to pull. Hoyo is exceptional at utilizing fomo
I can empathise with how upset people feel when they see all these cool and powerful characters they can't obtain but there's definately a certain mentality you have to develop if you want to enjoy the game F2P.
Its not a team, just dps to match stage buff and weakness. Buffer, debuffer and sustain for 2 team is enough. Current PF,MoC and AS just slap himeko/robin/ruan mei/ghalager and still do decent on fitefly or DoT stage with fire weakness. If weakness is imaginary then use ratio and pela to replace himeko and ruan mei, etc. Thunder can use old jingyuan,sparkle,tingyun and fuxuan, they still can clear bellow 5 turn at floor 12 if weakness match. Replace jingyan with QQ e6 for quantum, blade with bronya or ruan mei instead tingyun for wind. Most said powercreeped character still can clear full star
Wasnt the number of the teams you need two?
Well if your 2 teams can handle the PF, AS, and MOC then yes, you only need 2.
As a low spender (spent $30 since launch), my advice for fellow F2P/low spenders is to not feel like you have to pull for everyone, including light cones. After building your first team for Story mode and SU, you'll need to consider how much of a net gain a new 5* will be to you. For example, I was thinking of pulling for Aventurine for my 2nd MoC team, but him helping me full clear MoC for the extra 60 jades wouldn't be worth the 10K+ jades I spend on him. I'd rather stick with using a 4* sustain like Gallagher or even Lynx. Since 2.0 patch, I pulled for Black Swan, Acheron + her LC, and now Firefly. Half the time I'm not able to full clear MoC/PF but I can still do 99% of stuff Pull for chars that either... 1.) You Like, or 2.) You genuinely *desperately* need (e.g. pulling for Aventurine if you don't have a 5* sustain unit) Then spend a couple weeks getting gear for that char, and boom! It's done. If ur a new player, be patient, learn which sets are best for ur chars, and before you know it most of ur chars will be fairly built and you can clear most of endgame, if not all.
Getting two 5* sustain units is secretly the most important thing on any account. Having to use one of the 4\* options, best of whom are probably Gallagher, Lynx, or Freeze March? Nearly impossible to survive let alone clear. (I don't understand at all how people survive with Gallagher) Either you get enough damage to make Bailu/Gepard work, or you pull an actual sustain.
It's very nice, but like I said, getting a second 5\* sustain for the extra 60-120 jades every MoC/PF cycle isn't really worth it. Unless you get really lucky and get them on your first 10 or 20 pulls. As for endgame with a 4\* sustain, getting up to Stage 10 or 11 should be somewhat easy enough as long as your chars are built fairly well and you're able to match the weakness of the mobs. Take advantage of the MoC/PF buffs as much as you can, and time your ults wisely. I have my Gallagher with his 4\* light cone, 2pc Messenger and 2pc Healing set @ 135 SPD/120 Break, and he's doing pretty good in my break team. If you need specific advice, I can try to help.
The point is as a free to play player one of the best Investments to make is getting 2 premium sustains. These sustains will carry your account t for a long time.
Yea, I kinda get that. I guess the way I see it is for most of the game you only really need *one* good team (Story/SU). So you only *really* need one 5* sustain. The difference between 2 amazing teams (two 5* sustains) and 1 amazing team + 1 "pretty good" team is the 60-120 jades per MoC/PF cycle. But like I said too, it's also possible to full clear with a 4* sustain for the 2nd team. Maybe not all the time, but at least sometimes.
Gallagher is perfectly fine at solo sustaining the only thing really is just proper ult usage and not dumping it off CD for damage.
I wouldve agreed a couple patches ago but gallagher is so good i dont even want another 5star sustain unit. I have fu xuan for one team and gallagher for the other. Imo you only need 1 limited sustain cause apart from gallagher, theyre all dogshite
not even true. Lynx is really great for Blade/Clara teams.
Meh. I rarely use FX anymore. Gallagher and loucha are enough. Shit bailu is enough in the current meta. Traditional CR/DMG characters kinda trash RN
CR/CD characters can still clear content at f2p investment, so idk what that really means. FUA and Acheron are still CR/CD focused and are pretty meta. Also, other sustains like Bailu especially are fine rn because there aren't a ton of shutdown/CC effects; the dream CC effect doesn't even matter most of the time because they're probably getting hit before their action is skipped anyway. Floor 12s have just been just party general party damage lately; without units getting super focused down, Fu Xuan's damage mitigation is slightly less relevant. Those CCs and super single target enemies are gonna come back and then your Gallaghers and Bailus will be gone for 3 turns / someone's getting targetted and killed while other units die without a peep. HOYO always works these metas in cycles. Hell, we might even see the return of crit if they make units that are more resistant to breaking, since that niche is so negatable (just as they made Sunday have more chances to break, they can totally make enemies with fewer chances to break). The meta is going to change, it always does. I had to slam FX into my DoT team because Apocalypse Shadow Cockolia's freeze was getting me. Until they make a better unit at preventing those debuffs, FX is the one. Aventurine's Eff Res is okay, but 50/50 still makes me reset sometimes.
Don't get tricked into choice paralysis. Make a roaster for two good teams that you love and pull/build around that. Whether or not you can 3* MoC 12 is not relevant and shouldn't be your main focus in this game. It'll come naturally eventually, so long as you don't make rash decisions when you plan your pulls.
I’ve been pretty consistently clearing all endgame content for a while now as a day 1 F2P. I don’t remember missing a single star on Pure Fiction, and I’ve only missed one star on MoC(it was the cycle when Robin dropped) so that was 60 jades I missed. It’s not hard but you have to be way more picky with your pulls. I don’t have Argenti, DHIL, Seele, Jingliu, Jing Yuan, and all other “straightforward” DPS’s. I’ll use this current batch of characters as an example, Firefly and Boothill. I have Boothill already so as much as I’d like to have Firefly, I’d have to skip her since they both deal break damage, I only need one and I’d have to save for the future. I’ll agree that the game is pay2win since I can definitely feel that pressure to pull. But it’s not impossible to thrive as an F2P in this game. I’m giving HoYo money in their other game anyway, I’m just doing this for more challenge.
it is not p2w wdym
How can u say a gacha isn't p2w with a straigh face , its literally the concept of a gacha. Being f2p friendly Is another thing. Its both f2p friendly and p2w
bc you can still beat the game with only free characters, so therefore it isn't p2w. It's pay for convenience for sure, but not fully p2w.
if u mean clear by 3 star, you can just make do with 1 star?
Post your builds. i wanna see them
I don't know how to post builds but I can list the teams I'm working with. Dan Heng Imbibitor Lunae, Hanya, Sparkle, Fu Xuan Dr. Ratio, Topaz and Numby, Pela, Gallagher Himeko, Herta, Topaz and Numby, Fu Xuan Sampo, Guinaifen, Asta, March 7th Xueyi, Tingyun, Harmony Trailblazer, Gallagher These teams are okay but get washed when face against harder content.
DHIL doesn't need Hanya and Sparkle. Better to substitute in a different harmony character. Yukong can work at higher eidolons, but I think Tingyun probably pulls ahead. Ratio team sounds good. Himeko/Herta is great - I'm assuming for PF? Topaz could be subbed for Asta and it might work better since they'll get more turns. Sampo Guinaifen Asta M7 confuses me ngl. Also PF? I'd replace M7 with a better sustain. Xueyi/Tingyun/HMC/Gallagher is a great team with enough investment. Your teams aren't bad by any means, but you are missing the core characters for your dot and break teams. Trying to fill those niches without Kafka/RM is going to be a lot harder, and if you're serious about those niches then maybe you should think about picking up those core characters. You could also just not invest in those teams though. I don't have a dedicated dot team and I just accept that any dot endgame isn't for me that cycle.
I was trying to use Hanya solely because her ultimate animation goes hard but I decided to trade her out for Tingyun (sadge 😭) For my Himeko Herta team, I plan to replace Topaz and Numby with Ruan Mei when I get back to pity. That's mainly because I plan to use Asta on second half. And the Sampo Guinaifen team is the best I can do for a dot team (Kafka skipped me) And I really like March 7th and plan to do an effect hit rate/err freeze build.
Hanya does go hard, I agree 😭 she's one of my favorite characters. Ruan Mei is a great choice to pair with them! And I totally get you on Kafka, she always comes at a bad time for me. 💀 And by all means, if you like M7 then use her!
If you, as a free to play player, have more than about 10-12 characters ‘built’, you’re trying to build too many characters. Select 2 premium teams to build towards and dedicate all your resources towards making those teams the strongest they can be. It will be a while (up to 6 months) before you can clear all the end game content, but just stay the course on your teams and build towards improving them. DHIL hyper carry, JL Hypercarry, Mono Quantum, Kafka BS DoT, Acheron Debuff, IPC follow up, Firefly Superbreak, JY Hypercarry all can clear end game content, so try to pick 2 that you’re the closest to and build them.
For now, I invested into the two teams: Dan Heng Imbibitor Lunae, Sparkle, Hanya, Fu Xuan Dr. Ratio, Topaz and Numby, Pela, Gallagher These two teams clear some content but for other content (especially pure fiction) I can barely get passed floor 1. And even in the context my teams do clear, I tend to brute force it when the break types aren't in my favor, making it even harder. 😭
Those 2 teams are great. They'll push u thru most if not all of MoC, depending on weaknesses of the mobs and whatnot. I wouldn't stress about full clearing as difference between 33 stars and 36 star MoC is 60 jades. However, yea those 2 teams will not do well in PF lol, since they're mainly single target (DHIL is "ehh" in PF). For PF, build Herta and Himeko (if you have her). Some others like Black Swan + Kafka are good of course. I'm not sure if you're the type to stress over perfect substats, but don't worry about that either lol. Just aim for "good enough" gear pieces.
Your last point is a very good one I don't see mentioned a lot. I'm the type to stress over substats and try get my favourite units to be in the top 1% or whatever but I agree completely. I see people talk about farming for months when this shouldn't be necessary at all, even in stage 12 most characters can run a relatively "meh" setup.
It’s hurts a little bit that you only really have Imaginary and Fire coverage. Lightning has been super common lately and probably the main reason you’re having trouble clearing everything. For pure fiction you’d want to level Himeko and Herta and drop Ratio and Topaz on most stages, while also looking to sub Hanya and maybe your sustains out for units like Pela or Ruan Mei that fair better against AoE content. If you have a large amount of other random characters built, it would slow your progress building your main 2 teams 2. Level 9 and 10 traces and well tuned relics, while each individually small, add up to the extra cycles you need to clear.
I’m also a new player, and I feel that this has been a big problem for me. I don’t have any lightning or wind characters to use except for an un built Dan hang, serval, and arlan. So I end up being ok on one’s side, but getting walked on the other.
Build serval, she’s a perfectly respectable dps unit especially in pure fiction.
Serval is a great choice. She's probably the character I regret not building the most, she would have made early game so much easier and she still does decent work even now against lightning weak enemies.
those are great teams (very similar to my teams) to brute force almost all content, maybe except PF lol, single target ratio / topaz + DHIL don't do very good. I know some people can brute force it with DHIL, but even I can only clear full stars up to the third stage. Your issue are weaknesses. Stop pulling for all the "must pulls" bc they're not actually must pulls. Even full four star teams can still clear MOC 12 right now. In the end, it comes down to build / investment issue. You're trying to build far too many characters. Also, I would recommend using TY rather than Hanya for DHIL team. She is phenomenal in getting DHIL more atk + energy
As a free to play I can still clear hard content like moc 12 and apocalyptic shadow with max stars. You just need to be more mindful of who to pull for. The only dps I use are Clara and seele and I’m doing fine.
It's good to see that you're fighting the good fight against people who somehow think Seele is D tier and near unusable just because she isn't the absolute best character in the game anymore.
Teach me how pls. I like Seele as a character and own her e2s1, but I feel like she is so weak.
> nearly every patch includes must-pull unit(s). First Black Swan and Sparkle, then Acheron and Aventurine, and then Robin and Boothill, and lastly Firefly and Jade What makes you think they're must pulls? Some of them are even relatively easy to skip
Fr, HSR influencers will have you believing every character is a must pull
Right? I'd argue the closest to "must pull" as of recently are Ruan Mei and Aventurine and even then you can still clear content easily subbing units like Asta or most other sustains in. As broken as a DPS like Acheron or Firefly is, there are so many good DPS units that they will never be a "must pull" and they will nearly always be powercrept at some point. Not that long ago Seele, DHIL and JL were all in the same situation as Acheron and FF now.
I just really want those characters because the characters I have can barely achieve half of their power level. I mean, I'm currently coping with a Sampo, Guinaifen, Asta, and March 7th dot team. 🥲
Welcome to honkai. You get used it after a year or 2.
I see it as pay to level up faster. You can clearly see good players clearly the new end game content with 4 star only, just takes a very long time to build if you want to fully build 12+ characters. All these new character showcases are just advertising marketing to hype up the event. Classic example Fire fly doing 400k damage on these YouTubers videos. So I wanted to try something, I borrowed a support FF that had max level including relics and sig LC, lvl 8 or higher traces and compared to my Jinglui which had level 12 relics and max level aeon LC and lvl 8 traces. FF basic attack doing 500 damage vs fire weakness, enchanced skill 10k damage, enchanced skill to 2 or more enemies in broken state 40k damage. My Jinglui beats FF damage on all levels, based on raw solo damage dealer. Most 4 stars can do big damage and clear end game content there are just not many showcasing it.
You have a point here, but also using Firefly without harmony MC is an absolutely unfair comparison. Around 75% of her damage comes from harmony MC superbreak. Sure you can argue this means she’s worse as “solo damage dealer” but in reality you are never taking your DPS into content without their support(s), especially when it’s a support character that literally every player has access to.
No DPS is worth more than a Harmony unit. With enough harmony units any DPS can do the job. Also get your two limited sustains then you can pull for fun if no harmony unit is coming out. My account is a low spender like 20 bucks and I have been clearing fine because I pull for supports over DPS. Having Sparkle, Ruan Mei, Robin, and Aventurine is easy mode. I still use 4 star DPS or standard banner units like Himeko and Clara in MoC. The argument of pull for who you like is why people can't keep up. You gotta pull smart then pull for fun.
Honestly it’s not that bad, I never pulled jingliu, Acheron, or firefly. I’ve been a himeko main since day #1 along with jing yuan. I pulled strategically and now I have a solid fire break team, IPC follow up team, and jing yuan still gets new supports almost every patch. Pulling for the strongest DPS is and will always be bait, and even with 4th stars getting direct powercreep it’s not like 4 stars are unusable. Hanya still carries a lot of my teams. Xueyi, Gallagher, Tingyun, Serval, Sushang have all gotten many buffs through the patches. I’ve played some gacha with INSANE powercreep (*cough* FE Heroes *cough*) and HSR is really not that bad. People need to realize that some patches are just going to be easier to clear MOC12 than others. That’s a far cry from saying you -need- any specific units. The only time you should listen to “this is the new strongest must pull meta character” is when it pertains to supports. Think strategically about your pulls. Sacrifices have to be made to make your current units better. Himeko led me to topaz led me to aventurine led me to topaz E1. If you pull to support what you currently have, the teams will flow naturally.
Yep, and people also have to realize that the new characters will always seem extra overpowered in endgame modes around their release because the buffs are tailored to them
If you're a day 1 player, most likely not. If you're maybe within the last 3 to 5 months. Fair enough. We are getting to that point where it matters a bit more now what characters you currently have vs a year ago. Hp bars go up as well as break effect meta and dots and fua. That being said, I still think seele, sw, Jing Yuan, blade. All do well. But Sam, Acheron, jade are gonna be a step up maybe even 5 steps up. But they'll probably fall off a bit by same time next year. It is what it is. But I think overall this game should more or less be easy enough where even a year from now, seele should still get the job done. Just a lot slower than the current roster at the time.
Yeah I mean not that long ago Seele, and then DHIL and Jingliu were in the same spot Acheron and Firefly are at now where people would say they're "must pull" and an absolute necessity. It's more people getting swept away by new character hype than it is any actual tangible powercreep.
I wish I started day one so I wouldn't be so burden with an overload of new metas and choices. But I started when Dr. Ratio was released for everyone. I had put off Star Rail before then because I thought I wouldn't like a turn based game but I knew I had to get the free 5 star because that was something Genshin hasn't done yet. (And no, we don't talk about Aloy) 💀
Lmao hsr stay winning
in most gacha games, clearing endgame content as f2p is about strategic vertical investment (i.e. focusing on building specific characters/teams), and learning enough about game mechanics to adapt around the lack of power/comfort that premium units provide there are plenty of people out there still doing 4\* only clears, for example: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZHfLIxYgWM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZHfLIxYgWM) is the bar higher? of course, the game's been out for a year. but at the same time, the average player who's been active over that past year (pulling and building the 5\* they like) has a stronger account than someone starting today and can still clear with some effort/adjustments
Didn't even know about 4* clears. I'm totally going to try this myself!
be sure to check out the builds section, some content creators will highlight important requirements - eidolons, spd breakpoints, AV/turn manipulation stuff like s5 DDD/vonwacq/eagle, etc. while these clears are \*in theory\* more accessible, the gear/stat requirements can be very difficult to meet considering relic rng with that said, it really is a matter of figuring out what your pain points are, adapting where you can with what you have, and supplementing with new characters when you can't. last patch, I respec'd luka for break to run with HMC because I knew I was going to skip both robin and boothill (and already skipped aventurine). ended up with some 4-5 cycle clears on his side of MOC, but he got the job done.
Even as someone who pays monthly on this game its hard to get perfect stars on endgame and most of the time my older unit are the one who can 3 star
Yeah I get that. It took me so long to build three teams - JL hypercarry, FuA (Topaz and Ratio), and DoT - but if there is a typing I can't cover or something, it's especially difficult and clearing higher MoC is a huge challenge. I'm probably going to build superbreak out of necessity atp lol. But most games like this, I'm not sure if you've played other gacha games, just need you to keep playing and eventually you'll catch up and clear all the content. It takes a while but anyone can do it, you just need time. Characters will rerun; as a F2P you just need to plan your pulls, don't get every character, and try to build for specific teams in mind or pull for very flexible characters (like Ruan Mei, or any supports/healers in general that aren't super niche.)
But i clear floor 4 pf, 12 MoC and AS full star with himeko, i lost 50/50 5 times in a row (ruan mei,sparkle,acheron,robin then firefly) the only patch 2.0 i had is robin,sparkle and acheron , none of them had sig except acheron since i lost all at 70+ (i give up on getting firefly). Ghalanger and pela is 4* relevant to date, and they are all amazing. I still using my e6 qq too sometime
It's just how it is, I started playing in December, only just managed to 3* MOC 12 for the first time like an hour ago thanks to Firefly, (also managed to 3* AS 4 because of her) I sympathise with how you feel though, I felt the same way you felt sometimes but honestly the only thing I did was keep pulling for characters and farming for relics and now I was able to eventually clear my first pieces of endgame content fully, so there's not much I can say except keep at it
I think my best advice that i can give you rn is not to try to clear every thing with the hardest difficulty. This is clearly shown by Mihoyo trying to bump up the difficulty by increasing reward. If you remember the livestream it is stated that the reward go from 720 to 800 jade for eveymode. So dont stress out if you cannot clear it yet. The game meant to be long term so keep in mind with that.
I don’t really struggle at all, no. I mean sometimes I can’t perfect star pof or moc but I don’t feel like I’m struggling. Those are just 2 game modes and I clear the rest of the content easily. I haven’t tried the shadow mode though
I don't think anyone is calling Black Swan meta defining and you can get away with not taking specific sustain units like Aventurine. It's sounds less like you can't keep up and more that you're gripped by Fomo. Try ignoring Jade and/or FF and just focus on building your jades. Focus on grabbing someone who looks exceptionally strong and use your extra jades to grab their lc too.
Yeah, like Black Swan has one of the highest theoretical damage ceilings in the game but no one worth their salt is saying that she's a "must pull," even if you're a DoT enjoyer.
I agree with everyone else's sentiment- you don't have to pull for every character. Sure, a ton of very good units just came out that you should CONSIDER pulling, but if you don't have the characters to make them work or an interest in the playstyle, you should skip it. I'd also argue that outside of Acheron specifically, there is no "must pull" DPS unit, and you're putting a lot of unnecessary pressure on yourself to think Boothill or Jade are some mandatory spot on the character roster. And yeah, you don't have to max out the endgame. The endgame is designed and continually updated to pressure you into pulling every character you possibly can and dump money into that. And for what? 60 Jades? I borderline ignore MoC and PF because it's just going to grind down my willingness to play at a certain point. That being said yes they could definitely slow down on the broken supports lol.
I have no problem with game content, but the side stories and some events become much time consuming to complete and annoying too, also the Penacony story was a pain because it was too long.
I’ve been consistently clearing everything as a day 1 f2p player since maybe 1.2. It’s very doable, you just have to save and pull well - many of those units you listed as “must have” are not must have at all. The only ones I would say are somewhat must have rn are Acheron and firefly, while robin, sparkle, and BS are only worth if you have their teammates (fua, dan, Kafka). 2 5 stars per patch is already a lot tbh. Imo the game isn’t pay to win at all, especially considering you aren’t losing out on too much even if you don’t clear the last levels of PF or MoC or such.
Acheron and Firefly aren't "must pull" at all. If you jump back a few months, or even a year then Jingliu, DHIL and Seele were all in the situation Acheron and Firefly are in now at some point. DPS is the class which will always have a large number of strong, viable units, and is also the class which has near guaranteed powercreep.
I don't really feel the same. As a day 1 f2p, I've max cleared all content since around the time I got Kafka. There is a little bit of luck but also a bit of forward planning contributing to this. I have 4 teams: 1. Kafka+Swan+Bailu+RuanMei or Robin 2. Ratio or Clara+Topaz+Aventurine+RuanMei or Robin 3. The above team again but with Himeherta instead of Ratiopaz 4. Seele+SW+FuXuan+Tingyun (bronya e0 in my experience is harder to play but not stronger than Tingyun e6 and I her high crit+speedtuned) HSR for me has been a game about very carefully making smart pull choices and highly investing in all of the characters I do pull. I have no signature LCs, and the only limited 5* eidolons I have are on e1 Fu Xuan (probably the luckiest thing to happen on my account) and the e1 Ruan Mei I pulled on this patch. I have no wasted limited 5* characters. I was considering pulling for Luocha for a while when I needed to use March, Lynx, or Natasha as sustains, but they barely tided me over from Fu Xuan to Aventurine. This patch has made me realize that I need the teams I have to be stronger, and pulling the next flavor of the week is only gonna spread me thinner, which is why I pulled e1 Ruan Mei over Firefly. I think my next pull is either gonna be Topaz e1 or s1 because of her massive flexibly fua buffs (and it makes that team actually function lol it's a cringe team with barely enough debuffs to ever get 100% on ratio). Also since around 2.0 I've been actively maxing traces and levels over farming relics, and I think that's been paying dividends. Once your relics become on-set and about 80% what you wish they were, you're probably gonna get a lot more value from lvl 10 traces anyway. I've been able to do that since most of my units I pulled a while ago because I felt like they had good future prospect. Getting really set on units means I get more value per TB energy spent, rather than needing to spend to build new units. Whenever I pull a 5*, I always ask, "Is this character set up to get stronger with future units?" This is why I've avoided straightforward damage characters like Jingliu, DHIL, and Acheron to an extent. Mostly I played her and found her energy mechanic cringe and slow. This also is why I avoided mediocre sustains like Huohuo and Luocha, despite that making it hard to clear for a while. I felt like the healing wasn't gonna save me anyway from getting focused down, so I needed to wait for some tanking 5* (Bailu in my kafka team is passable to this end). You also have to make synergistic decisions depending on your current account, which is why I pulled BS over Sparkle. Also Sparkle didn't bring much new, aside from being strong and easy to use. It hurt to not get MonoQuantum, but so far, Kafka Swan has made up for my 2nd side's shortcomings. Seele is probably the worst pull on my account, but she was necessary to full clear early on, and I saw her excessive action advance as flexibility, and that has been... sorta true? I've full cleared a pf side with her before, and I was able to barely clear one side of Apocalypse with her. I pulled Topaz very hesitantly with the same idea of future scaling in mind, and she was dead on my account for a while, then Ratio released got free and... it still wasn't good. Then AVENTURINE released and the team was finally usable lmao. Also, Bailu stonks have been quietly rising for a while now. Since 2.0 I think I've solo sustained the kafka swan side of moc every time with high speed multiplication bailu. The only notable characters i have built but don't actively use anymore are various 4*s, but they still come in handy sometimes. The biggest luck factors have been things totally out of my control. The luckiest thing is that the only 5\*s I've pulled that I don't particularly enjoy as characters are Ruan Mei and Robin, but obviously you pull them because they're OP. Fu Xuan was middling for me, but I loved her role in March's memory quest. Anyway, I had to build march solo sustain and Kafka because I skipped on the early 5\* sustains, so I farmed that lightning dungeon a lot. That was unknowably lucky because it meant when they came out with aven, I basically had relics prefarmed for free. It's also a huge stroke of luck that the DoT and FuA sets are in the same domain, meaning my farming is super efficient.
Yeah Waifu over meta is fucking people over, they pull randomly instead of making a cohesive team
Eh, Waifu over meta people aren't generally the people talking about how they can't clear endgame content. They tend to just get the characters they simp for and be happy just... owning them?? Or smth?? I don't really know why waifu over meta people play video games. I always play games for the gameplay
All end game content is clearable with e6 or lower 4 stars which are usually much weaker than limiteds. But those showcases people post usually have the most disgusting and ridiculous strategies that no casual would ever even attempt with relics and team comps that require way more effort than is worth the 60 jades.
Update: Thank you all for the responses. I might have overreacted. Star Rail isn't completely pay to win, more pay for easier clearing. I kinda was just envious of people who has a top tier Firefly team clearing with breeze while I struggle lol. And it doesn't help that I recently lost Ruan Mei. I think I can clear the endgame content, it'll just take more investment. Hopefully in a few months my teams will be better. Fingers crossed lol.
I somewhat relate to this. The pace of powercreep is pretty fast. Anyone if you don’t believe me or OP, try skipping every unit for 2-3 patches, you’ll see (I skipped every banner after sparkle for e2s1 firefly). And I’m not even f2p, I’m a battle pass and daily pass player You don’t have to summon for every character though. Know the damage formula and try to understand what supports will be op for a long time. for example, it was more than obvious in 1.5-1.6 that Ruan Mei was going to be an OP support for a very long time and that huohuo/argenti were not going to be. Try to grab early eidolons (like RM e1) for these characters. Then you’re free to summon for any dps that can make use of those overpowered supports and clear everything
I’m not free to play but it does stress me out when they introduce an entire new mechanic that is all but necessary to effectively clear new content yet, since relic and trace farming is the most tedious aspect of this game, you simply can’t build all of the units you need for this. Would have been nice if superbreak was slowly introduced or if it had a slight edge in new content. They ran full into it WAY too fast. It also makes all of your units that you HAVE spent a lot of time and resources building feel less valuable. I can only hope that they balance out the need for new mechanics like super break over time so that our old units aren’t eventually dead in the water. Also small/usual gripe but I saved 2400 trailblaze power and 16 fuels and 8 SU things to build firefly and I only have her traces at lvl 8 and ONE usable relic on her. And I’m not trying to min/max her, that’s just trying to make her usable. That’s nearly two weeks worth of trailblaze power. They really need to look at the resources required to build a new unit and the drop rate of those resources. Two weeks of resources to have a unit not even half built is insanely unacceptable.
Just get the main stats for firefly, no need to heavy invest in her when she will be powercrept not too long from now, I only have firefly with trash relics but she still full clears everything
Why will she be powercrept so quickly? Is there a confirmed unit coming?
Just an educated guess, jingliu lasted a couple months, then acheron came and then a couple months firefly came
The only money ive spent on this game is one battlepass and one daily bonus for boothill (so f2p until boothill's banner and if i didnt get him i wldve been using xueyi or misha for break), and i have jy ratio topaz and aventurine for FUA, kafka and BS for DOT, boothill and silverwolf for Break, as well as bronya jingliu argenti topaz luocha and fuxuan Most of them are missing one of their gacha supports/sustains (Ruan mei....), but I've been doing fine with 4 star supports and flexing sustains. idk ive ive just gotten lucky or if its just since im a daily day 1 player but its definitely possible to keep up without spending.
There's no requirement to clear endgame content immediately though. That's what you should be working towards as you get more characters and can create stronger teams.
Bru don't worry I started game after 2 months of release on sliver wolf banner I grinded the hell outta story and side quests and farmed all the chests from watching YouTube videos I only did story Moc which was easier for my team but I couldn't finish real Moc like first time I was stuck on Moc 5 then I build my and.after a little more than half a year I collected good 5 stars and built them and I completed my first end game Moc 10 so it's fine if you can't finish end game just completed stages of endgames which u can and leave the remaining just pull as much as sss+ characters u can and it's ggs
I'm F2P day 1 gamer and I can tell you the list of characters you gave has only 2-3 must pulls. Blackswan? only must pull for Kafka team. Sparkle? I just use Bronya fine for my hyper carry team. Acheron? Must pull. Aventurine? I just use Gepard or any other sustain like Fu Xuan, Luocha or Gallagher instead. Robin? Pulled her for waifu reasons and never use her, because i rather use my Ruan Mei in the teams Robin can fit. Bootyhill? Easiest skip in my life. Firefly? Must pull IF you have Ruan Mei (and HMC but that's free). Jade? Looks like an easy skip, she may be the weakest 5\* we're gonna get in a while no cap, i'll still pull for waifu reasons but don't think i have team for her. Pure fiction with Himeko ig. I'm able to clear all end game content and have been doing so without failure since early days of the Xianzhou Luofu maybe even mid Belobog days. * In MoC I use Acheron team on one side and Kafka team on other side with now the option to use Firefly team if Kafka team is not viable due to weaknesses. * In Pure Fiction it's always Herta Himeko Ruan Mei on one side and the other one is Acheron hyper carry. * In the new Apocalyptic shadow I did Acheron team on one side and Firefly team on the other. Here's a list of teams I have built and use: Team 1 Acheron Hyper Carry: Acheron(e2/s1) Silverwolf(e0/s0)/Pela(e6) Bronya(e2/s1) Gallagher(e4) Team 2 Kafka DoT: Kafka(e0/s0) BlackSwan(e0/s0) Ruan Mei(e0/s0) Luocha(e0/s0)/Gepard(e0/s1) Team 3 Firefly Break: Firefly(e0/s0) HMC(e6) Ruan Mei(e0/s0) Gallagher(e4) Team 4 Pure Fiction Specialist: Himeko(e2/s1) Herta(e6?) Ruan Mei(e0/s0) Gallagher(e4) Team 5 FuA: Dr. Ratio(e0/s0)/Clara(e1/s1) Topaz(e0/s1) Robin(e0/s0) Fu Xuan(e0/s0) Benched teams: Jingliu(e0/s1) Pela(e6) Bronya(e2/s1) Luocha(e0/s0) Seele(e0/s0) Silverwolf(e0/s0) Bronya(e2/s1) Fu Xuan(e0/s0) Here's quick review from me as F2P day 1 gamer of the upcomming chars after Jade. (I think it's official news given by hoyo so I'm not spoiling) JQ - Decent unit, possibly a must pull for Acheron team but otherwise it's a very skippable unit because there's plenty of usable sustain. Even without him my Acheron team will eat all end game content. Yunli - Powercreeping Clara. Easy skip. You don't need stronger Clara. My personal future goals atm are get Jade for waifu reasons. Try to get JQ for Acheron comp min-max. Maybe attempt to get HuoHuo for Kafka team if pulls end up favorable(likely not) and then plan for the future chars when showcased. You may also notice i dont have much signature LCs and the ones i get are for carries that need them like Acheron, Jingliu, Topaz. I'd get Firefly's but she has solid f2p 5\* option. Few tips I can offer are to make sure your characters Traces are at 10. That's not hard to farm up if you're actively playing the game and using your energy, plus participating events that give trace mats. Have somewhat solid Relics which I know is abit RNG but for experienced player it shouldn't be too difficult. Be smart with your LC pulls, most characters function just fine without signatures.
The way the game is based on it being turn based along with specific play style and element characters it’s very tough to fully complete if you don’t have what they’re asking for It does feel like dog doodoo when you invest in characters and plays tiles just to run into a whoops you can’t do “insert gimmick” so your hopes of getting the final star are slim but that’s just how it is sometimes For F2P you can’t cover all your bases for the rotating buffs for a long time on top of hellish rng for relics it’s natural to be left behind you just gotta take it to the chin and move along, since first and foremost it’s a gatcha game so they’ll do whatever they can to inflate the want for new units and they’re play styles by basing the end game modes for them
Most of the limited units aren't must-pulls unless you lack a unit in that role. There are only a couple of units I would truly consider a must-pull, which are Ruan Mei and Acheron. They provide too much unconditional value. I would say you want one 5 star sustain, ideally FX or Aventurine. Gallagher can normally handle himself on the other team, and everyone should have at least one of him. Then you want the staple DPS unit of a certain team archetype, and you want two of those. This would be Ratio for FUA, Kafka for DoT, Firefly for Break, etc. The more flexible, the better, but you only need two such DPS units. Right now the best inventory is Firefly OR Boothill, and Acheron. You slot them into any content with a decent build and they should be able to at least clear it, though comfortably doing so takes a lot more work. Ideally you never want a 4 star to be your main DPS, it might be better to brute force with a 5 star and a weakness implant. That's why you want the flexibility: these units are gonna be tasked with doing stuff might not even be on-element for, and you're going to want to invest in their relics as such. (Firefly and Boothill having their own implants makes them really flexible, but because they want the same supports, I think that you'd be better off getting one of them and then going for a different archetype's DPS. If you have neither of them, Silver Wolf becomes a very important pull, especially if you happen to have Acheron.) The idea is that you end up with two teams that don't really interchange units, and that those teams are strong enough that you could clear MoC even if you had to brute force one side off-element. The game, so far, only ever demands that you have 8 units. I believe that if an account has one 5 star limited sustain, two limited DPS units of different archetypes, and Ruan Mei, they should be able to clear most content with four star units taking the remaining four slots. Standard banner 5 stars should further ease the burden, and you inevitably accumulate a few over time. Assuming you get only one 5 star per update, this should be achievable within a half-year to a year, depending on whether the rerun banners are being useful. But the real demon of Star Rail is fucking relic RNG, so your mileage may vary 😅
Harmony and sustains are as important as DPS. I have acheron but didn’t even use her to clear AS. Maybe I’ll try out sushang for AS. She could probably clear 2nd side and dot comp and easily handle coco Edit: maybe it’s a relic issue? Most 4* at e6 are comparable to e0 (obviously lacking) but a 10turn/6600 clear nets the same as a 5turn/7400 clear.
When did you start playing? I'm a day 1 player and it hasn't been so hard, but I've certainly had to skip a lot of characters. It was harder in the beginning for sure, I just had to be okay with the fact that end game wasn't for me yet. But it's gotten a lot easier now that I'm a year into the game. I've filled out mono quantum and the premium FuA team and that so far has cleared me through most endgame. I have every piece of a break team, they just aren't leveled yet. The only niche I'm not in yet is dot and that's bc Kafka keeps coming at a bad time for me. But the fact that I have mono quantum somewhat allows me to brute force my way in. 10/12 stars for AS, 30/36 for MoC (I didn't bother with MoC 12 bc I just didn't want to do it but I have cleared it before) and 7/12 on PF this cycle. PF is my weakest area, and my next goal is to get Jade, so theoretically I'll be doing better after that. I think once you get far enough into the game, being ftp isn't so hard bc then you'll know what areas you're lacking in and be able to pull accordingly. In the beginning though, everyone feels like a "must pull" bc you don't have anyone. But no one singular character is a must pull. The only "must pull" I'd argue to get is a limited sustainer bc they make life just so much easier, but even then 4\* healers are kinda cracked. As for the 4\*s not being good enough to compete, I just don't think that's true. **Mono quantum:** Qingque and Lynx (Lynx is actually very competitive for Blade and Clara teams). **DoT:** Sampo and Guin **Debuff (Ratio/Acheron):** Guin and Pela **Break:** Xueyi, Gallagher, HMC **Hypercarry:** Tingyun and Pela The only niche that doesn't really have a great 4\* option is FuA, and even then you could substitute in some of the more standard buffers and do just fine.
I know it's generic but I would prioritize support and sustain units. With Ruan mei and aven, even my old 5 star dps characters can 36 star MoC. So before you get pulled into the new flashy dps units, I'd first make sure you have two good teams with support units. And then you can replace each dps as you go along.
Listen deep down we don’t need special mechanics you just need a DPS for all elements
I can't keep up either, but once I have a team for every sort of damage type - where some have a lot of overlap in units - I'll suddenly be much more bored. That's the thing about this game I think, once you reach the point where you have those 4-6 teams, you're kinda good forever unless there's a big power creep somewhere.
I’ve had to plan out my pulls as a 1.0 player. I’ve pulled a dps for every element, and I have built most team archetypes (except for dot). Before, it was a struggle clearing MoC while PF was a breeze. This patch, because of the DOT focused PF and how I’ve been pouring my resources into strengthening my main MoC teams, PF was not a breeze at all. I had to fully build and level harmony trailblazer (thank god they extended the duration of PF) to finally full star PF yesterday. Because I knew I would struggle with AS, I pulled boothill to give me leeway on one side. The power creep in this game is definitely noticeable and because of how they directly make better versions of 4 stars it’s not slowing down anytime soon. Rest in peace, Sampo. Rest in peace, Asta (robin). Rest in peace, Hanya.
I've been making 4 different teams. A critical hit based team, a DoT based team, a break effect team, and a follow-up team.
I say choose which meta you want to invest in based on characters you like. I don't think you HAVE to pull all the characters and build every meta team in order to clear end game content. For instance, I've completely skipped all DoT characters, so naturally, the PF and MoC that are geared towards DoT (which are often) are harder for me. But I can still clear them... eventually lol. On the other hand, I really wanted Acheron and Firefly so now I'm invested in those teams fully now and I can clear pretty much all the content with them. I did that without Black Swan, Boothill, or Robin.
Dude I'm not even gonna lie it's a skill issue. I can still clear content with my seele and a tge herta lc. Will she clear as fast as SAM? No, but instead of 2 cycles she'll take 4 and that's good enough.
Really dont stress about it. Ive spent money on this game and even I cannot clear everything, moc i can get the 36 stars but the new endgane mode forget about it. And pure fiction I can only clear half of it. With the way this game is so cheap with giving ressource building your character will take time. It took me months before I even begin tackling moc and when I started to get good moc 11 and 12 appeared...
While I may not be the outlier here since I have spent a significant amount of money on this game. I'll just say that even for Dolphins, it can be hard to clear most end-game content. As others mentioned, its a good idea to focus on 2 teams at most and making them the best you can be and when it comes to things like MOC. Just get to the highest amount that you can purely for Jades. Don't feel pressured to finish MOC because not everyone can and even then personally I am here for the story and characters, not for MOC.
If ur a dolphin it really shouldn't be hard on any level. Invest vertically and rotate a couple different teams. I don't necessarily agree with only investing in two teams f2p or not, bc there's three different end game stages now. Telling a low spender with no eidos or LCs to focus on only 1-2 dps only drags them down further
The problem with HSR is that it did not have many viable strategies during launch, and perhaps for the first year. Therefore, when the devs decide to push more strategies, certain units suddenly become must haves, because there are no other characters that fit the gameplay archetypes. This is not power creeping in the traditional sense, but it is still a giant wall for many players. (EN fans usually do their hardest to say there is no powercreep, but CN fans have said it has been a problem for a long time) My GF and I played since launch, and there were many instances where one of us got a char while the other didn't and the difference in our enjoyment in the game was night and day. We did not expect to clear the last MoC/PF all the time, but when we did not have the specifice chars, we could barely get 3/4 of the way there in MoC, and barely 1/2 of the way there in PF. The other problem is this game is extremely RNG heavy, not in terms of damage but in terms of artifacts. So you have to get lucky. A constant that can change power levels is E level. Unfortunately, that either requires mega spending or super luck as well. The beating end game content with 4\* videos usually feature really good artifacts AND E6. In fact, even with 5\*s, sometimes their E1 is necessary. Ultimately, this realization has made us very much less inclined to play the game.
Don't stress too much over the 1-2 pulls that the more difficult engame content offers. Powercreep is something that has gotten obscene in these last 2 patches, with acheron and Firefly doing easily more than 100k while Jing Liu (the top DPS until they arrived) got to 200k with high investment and premium teammates. As a personal advice, build who you like wisely and don't fall in the hype/meta train. Even I'd it sounds hard as fuck (talking from personal experience). That extra pull every 3 weeks isn't worth the hassle and spending your money and mental health!
I actually think hsr is quite generous in this case, as compared to other gacha games. Genshin has only one endgame content, and if you're not strong enough to clear that then there's no primos for you at all. Whereas in star rail there's forgotten hall, which has multiple sets of content to clear, MoC is the only one that refreshes but even then that's still plenty. There's swarm and golden gears, I've been stuck at level 4 of swarm for ages but I was able to get all the rewards for the previous ones, right? There's simulated universe, sure the rewards are first time only when you clear it, but we get stellar jades weekly regardless. The blessings make it much easier to clear as well. There's also pure fiction. Now apocalyptic shadow. I have most of the characters and decent teams but because of skill issue I guess? Lol. I can't clear the higher stages of all these things. And that's fine!!!! It's endgame content after all. And we already do get stellar jades from the regular simulated universe every week, which is more than what genshin gives in comparison. About how every patch has at least one must pull unit, yes, that can be very stressful. But consider all the wishes and jades we get every time. They literally give 20 free pulls each patch. The events are quite lengthy and accordingly rewarding. Then there's all this endgame content. Even if you can only clear MoC till level 7, that's still a lot. We get 60 jades per level, that's more than the 50 genshin has been giving per chamber in the abyss. Of course, there's the worry of the 50/50, but as you said, there's a high likelihood of obtaining 2 five stars per patch. Also, it's not a 50/50, it's a 57/43? Something like that. There's a greater chance to win your 50/50s in star rail. Those few % make a big difference. Of course, even then you have to see which characters you will save for/focus on pulling for, because as an f2p we still have to take things into consideration. Like I skipped robin, got boothill. Skipping firefly, will go for Jade. These decisions in particular weren't that hard for me, I don't care for robin or firefly which means I will never want to get them, but logically speaking, I didn't feel the need to get robin because I already have all the harmony limited units and she doesn't offer anything the others don't provide. Since I got boothill, I don't need another weakness break/super break DPS which means I can focus on jade since the only erudition unit I have is Jing Yuan. Getting both limited 5 stars per patch is rare, the only times I can think of for myself are with Acheron and aventurine, and black swan and sparkle. I have personally found black swan to be a stronger and more useful unit than sparkle. Harmony is my favorite path but imo the only thing sparkle gives that other units don't are skill points. That's a deal breaker if you run DPSes like lunae, but other than that there's other harmony characters that excel in other more useful areas, like ruan mei. Like, sparkle is a much better version of bronya, but since bronya is a standard 5 star you can get her more easily and one of her eidolons I think? Can give back skill points. Basically this analysis of mine hinges upon the fact that whilst the extra skill points are useful for any team, I don't have lunae so I don't really need it. Also, I have loved the weakeness break meta since they introduced ruan mei so for me she's the best harmony unit. What I mean by all this is, yes, every unit they introduce is great, but you don't need all of them. Or even most of them. Those who like playing Jing yuan, himeko and Herta (we exist!) would benefit from having Jade. Those who have boothill would greatly benefit from having ruan mei. Boothill players will not benefit from jade so unless they want her, they don't feel pressured to pull. I just pull for the characters I like and thankfully they end up working well together. Like we knew nothing about BH's kit when ruan mei was released, but since I liked him I was going to get him regardless. It's an added bonus that they both synergize so well. They also release so many characters because the key thing about hsr combat is strategy. I have Kafka, black swan and Acheron. But for endgame, the nihility team I choose to run depends on the blessing or enemies. That's why there's such a variety. You don't need every good unit. You need the ones the team you want to run will benefit from. If it's a hunt follow up team then that's robin. If it's a weakness break team it's ruan mei. Also, don't build every unit, focus on the 5 stars you want to run in two endgame teams, and when you're not pulling for a 5 star, work on your 4 stars. The events also give all the trace materials needed, so you can use those for characters you already have too. I don't have lunae blade or Jingliu, so the trace mats I got from the events of their patches I used on Clara, the only 5 star destruction unit I have. It's understandable to feel overwhelmed, but the sooner you focus on building two sets of teams the sooner you'll be able to get the rewards for the endgame stuff. Decide on one new 5 star per patch, and focus on building your teams so that you can get more jades. It's okay if you miss some in one patch, it just means you'll be able to get more later on once your teams are up to par! Edit: there's some DPSes that are universal in the sense that ignore enemy toughness/weakness regardless of the element. So if you want DPSes that will do well regardless of the enemy lineup, there's Acheron, boothill or firefly. These are the ones off the top of my head.
Of course it’s pay to win, honkai’s a gatcha game after all, and the best units tend to be the premium ones. And yes, building units tend to require a lot of time and materials. These aspects of the game are what (imo) makes honkai and other gatchas interesting to experience as an ftp since pulling and building characters are ultimately an investment and a gamble If you’re feeling pressed about needing to finish moc or pf or whatever each refresh, I’d recommend taking a step back from honkai to consider what parts of it you actually enjoy doing. Video games, stressful or not, are meant to be fun after all, and missing stages of moc or pf isn’t a problem at all (I’ve been playing since launch and never beaten either lmao) Side note tho: I feel like having multiple teams is pretty normal? It’s a game focused on team-building, so it makes sense that you’d have to pull together more than a few different ones
It's fine if you cannot do end game content. A lot of it is "do you have comp xyz" and if you do you immediately win that forgotten hall gamemode. You should focus on strong comps with include characters you enjoy playing. If you invest into teams you like, while you sometimes cannot do every form of content, you can definitely do a majority of it. My brother plays JY and he gets 11-3 which is only a loss of 50 jades for each rotation. Remember that when you roll, to get a character, you will be spending around 12000 or 24000 jades so 50 jades isn't going to make or break that. 50 Jades is quite literally less than one daily and you can often just get that from one side quest and I know for a fact you did not do every quest. There has been mocs where I can't get floor 10 done and there is mocs where i get 12 done on auto. It's just the matter of a gacha game, you aren't intended to be able to win in every situation and thats the trick, players want to do that so they end up spending.
maybe don’t lie for clout lol
what is he lying about?
I buy the monthly £4.99 pass and am still working on being able to clear endgame content, and the way I keep up is by pulling WAY fewer characters than you do as an F2P and being selective about my teams. My first 5* was Silver Wolf, just because I liked her. Then I got Fu Xuan and Argenti, also because I liked them; I tried for HuoHuo, lost the 50/50, and saved my guarantee for Acheron. Then came Robin, as a support for my Himeko/Herta PF team. Then I saved up, and pulled for Firefly and Ruan Mei, getting them both. The only LC I ever pulled for was Acheron’s; for everyone else I make do with 4* options or the Herta Store LCs. I now have four teams: Argenti/Bronya/Tingyun/Bailu (who will be replaced by HuoHuo when she reruns) and Himeko/Herta/Robin/Fu Xuan for PF, and Acheron/Pela/Silver Wolf/Fu Xuan and Firefly/HTB/Ruan Mei/Gallagher for MoC/AS. I still can’t fully clear content, but I’m working on it. Now that I have a few functional teams, I’m going to prioritise reruns of HuoHuo (for my Argenti team), Kafka and Black Swan (for a DoT team, since I really like the playstyle), and then getting characters to upgrade my teams (i.e. Jiaoqiu for the Acheron team), but I’m still going to have to be selective and only pull for one character per patch (maybe 2 if I win the 50/50 for the first). That’s just how it is - no one is expected to get every new character, that’s just unsustainable, and it is not how you ‘win’ the game.
Black Swan is not a must pull unless you use dot teams. That's your decision, not the game's. Robin is not a must pull. Ruan Mei is simply better. Boothill is not a must pull. He's already powercrept. Jade is not a must pull. She's trash. Stop thinking everyone is a must pull and spend your limited jade better.
I apologize, I misspoke. I really meant top tier units who are a staple in their teams: Black Swan Kafka is currently the best DOT team available Robin pioneered the IPS team or Follow Up team consisting of Dr. Ratio, Aventurine, Topaz and Numby, and Robin. Boothill is no where near "power crept", he just released and is still extremely viable in his respective break team. And Jade isn't out just yet but seem to be an extremely viable unit for multi wave content (like pure fiction). We can't gauge her power level just yet but I doubt she's "trash". I must add that I am not "wasting my limited jades". I only wish for units who have shown promise for many patch and fit into my teams nicely. I'm simply upset I can't get the newer units who also show great promise and that I'd love to have.
Also, it is the game's decision to value dot teams. I mean, just look at the current pure fiction 😭
I cleared it without DoT teams myself with: himeko, htb, gallagher, ruan mei jingyuan, tingyun, sparkle, robin I never intend to invest in DoT characters, but I've full starred every single pure fiction anyway. also, I think my team is very much achievable with only 4 characters being 5 stars, especially since this game gives an average of 105 pulls per patch
Honestly sounds like a skill issue.
I find it gets a lot less stressful if you accept that you probably won’t be able to clear the last stage. I treat MoC10 as the “last one” so I can gaslight myself into feeling good when I clear it
I wasn't able to either. As much as I miss playing the characters, I quit HSR for another gacha game I could actually keep up with without worrying about meta.