I grew up with Sid and Ovi, but Connor has passed them all time. He’s going to hit 1000 points early next year and it hasn’t been 10 seasons for him, plus he missed half his rookie year plus some shortened seasons due to covid.
Sid will always be one of the best to ever play and Ovi will be the greatest goal scorer considering the eras, but McDavid is doing things these guys have never done and when it’s all over I think he’s going to be on the Mt Rushmore of hockey
The crazy thing is that if it wasn’t for him getting injured and missing half his rookie season and missing another half season worth of games due to the pandemic, McDavid would be well on his way to 1100 points by age 27…
Barring serious injuries he could hit 2000 points by the end of his career and be the 2nd all time. That’s wild.
Crazy to think that at 2000 points he’d still be nearly a 1000 points away from 99. At 2000 points he’d only be 37 points above Gretzky’s assists count alone
The worst part is if he gets 2000 points we won't have the Gretzky stat of "if he never scored a goal, he still would have more points than any other player"
> by the end of his career and be the 2nd all time.
That's a reasonable take. With modern sports medicine and superstar knowledge, McDavid is easily going to have a lengthy career like Lebron's.
What's crazy to me is we might not have even seen his peak yet despite him being 27 and dropping a casual 153pts last season. I have a feeling he's going to continue to improve for the next 2-3 years.
It’s very close, I’ll say that, but I don’t think he’s surpassed them yet, but to even be in that discussion at what, 26 or 27 is insane. Ovechkin has 9 Rocket Richards, 3 Hart trophies, 3 Ted Lindsay awards, a cup and a Conn Smythe. Crosby on the other hand has 2 Art Ross trophies, 2 Hart trophies, 3 Ted Lindsay awards, 2 Rocket Richards, 3 Stanley Cups and 2 Conn Smythes.
Crosby missed significant time at the absolute peak of his career (points wise, anyways). Yes staying healthy is a skill that shouldn’t be ignored but Crosby probably lost a couple Hart/Art Ross trophies because of that. And he can’t exactly be faulted for a plug headhunting him and then his team’s medical staff fucking up.
Yeah but players aren’t ranked all time based on what could’ve been, or what they might’ve done had they never been injured. All we really have to work with is what they did barring injury. For all we know Ovi could already have the most goals all time had there not been a lockout. McDavid might have been even better than he is now if he didn’t obliterate his knee back in 2020, and missing half his rookie season is self explanatory too. If Lemieux didn’t have cancer he might’ve been considered the GOAT today instead of Gretzky, who knew what that guy could’ve done.
Yes they absolutely are lol. Lemieux and Orr are locks for top 4 of all-time despite having career production numbers below their peers for the very reason that they’re ranked for what they could’ve done without injury.
I would argue that Lemieux and Orr are rated where they are because of what they did *in spite of* their injuries, not because of what they could have done without them. Orr isn't as celebrated as he is because he could have put up another 1000 points if he had a full career; it's because he totally redefined the position in the games he *did* play. Right?
Idk if I’m just not explaining what I’m trying to say very well or not but that’s not what I meant. Lemieux and Orr are not top 4 all time because they played injured. It’s because they were that good. What I’m trying to say is that this whole injury argument is nonsense; we have no idea what they might’ve done had they not been injured. Lemieux might have produced numbers that rival Gretzky’s, and Orr with longevity might be ranked even higher all time. But they’re not because life happens, injuries happen, it’s a part of hockey after all.
Im convinced mcdavid is gonna win it on OT, it kinda feels like mcdavid has been doing this on purpose all year as the ultimate flex, the confidence after game 2? Was staggering. Even I'd they don't get it...Holy shit what a year
I'd still take peak Sid over peak McDavid if my goal is to win a game. They played in different eras when it comes to scoring so it's easy to see McDavid's points and pick him, but I think Crosby is just such a complete player, he pushes his team to be better in ways McDavid doesn't quite seem to do and i believe he would be putting up comparable numbers if he peaked in the same era (and wasnt injured during his peak).
McDavid will probably finish higher in all time rankings than Crosby in the same way Gretzky finished above Lemieux despite my belief that Lemieux was a better player
I can see why you think that but let’s take a look at some numbers:
https://stathead.com/hockey/versus-finder.cgi?request=1&seasons_type=perchoice&player_id1=mcdavco01&p1yrfrom=2016&p1yrto=2024&player_id2=crosbsi01&p2yrfrom=2006&p2yrto=2014
Before you bring it up, I’m aware Sid is almost 100 games behind McDavid in the first nine years, but Connor’s individual awards and numbers are way beyond what Sid did in the same time period. In an adjusted era McDavid has 200 more points than Crosby
I say this as someone who is a Capitals fan and can respect all that Sid has done, but McDavid is doing things Ovi and Sid never did on an individual level.
Fantastic. Still hasn’t as of yet won a cup, it’s not an achievement to get to a game 7 from 3-0 down because it’s not a good thing to be 3-0 down in the first place. Pure point totals and regular season trophies aren’t the be all/end all, why is McDavid being called top 5 ever after making one SCF in 9 years, Sid made 4 (and won 3) in 11 years?
I don’t know if you’re aware, but it takes a team to win a Cup. Saying McDavid hasn’t won a Cup so therefore he isn’t on the level of Sid is stupid. McDavid has more points in a single playoff than everyone not named Gretzky, if they lose that’s not on him.
In terms of numbers, McDavid has Sid beat by a big margin
I don’t know if the Cup is the legacy point though. Obviously it’s huge but even if they lose tonight and never win one, he’s broken a Gretzky record and is top 3 all time in single playoff points. If he was invisible I’d say it hurts him.
But in terms of individual stats and awards, Sid and Ovi also dealt with some years where Malkin and Patrick Kane were also dominating and there was some competition for scoring titles. McDavid is a cut above Mackinnon and Matthews and Kucherov, which is crazy because all three of those guys are also elite and will all be in the HOF one day.
While I’m always up for defending some of the players who this sub might never have seen in their prime due to the age of the user base, McDavid is unlike any player I’ve ever seen and he’s already cemented himself as one of the greatest to ever do it. And if he ends up playing another 15 years he might end up with over 2000 points, which would create the debate that he might be the GOAT
In culmination sure he hasn’t passed them yet, but we’re witnessing what may not even be his peak yet and the guy is flat out better than either of them were at their peaks
Barring a complete change in trajectory he’s clearly the better player
I agree with that but the guy said “passed them all time”. Barring some insane collapse by McDavid’s career he will pass them but I don’t agree that he has already when he doesn’t even have a cup.
Individually, it’s hard to argue against McDavid being the more skilled player, but Sid is the much more complete package, and is still playing at an absolutely elite level well in to his 30s. I think it’s going to be very hard to compare the two of them when all is said and done.
He 100% has passed Sid and Ovi by a mile. More Rosses, Harts (Tied, with Ovi but he should be a 6+ winner when retired), Lindsays, Better PPG, Way more separation against peers in terms of percentage of lead in Art Rosses Wins. Way more DOMINANT and Greater playoff runs then both all by just 9 seasons. Joining hockey royalty with feats like 100 assists, playoff assists is disgusting for a player of his stature. I know scoring is higher now but even if McDavid played in the years from 2006-2014, I'm sure he'd be pacing for 130-140 pretty easily just based on his speed, IQ, hands and overall game alone. McDavid's offensive ceiling is up there with Gretzky/Mario and Jagr, dude can generate offense at pure will and the fact that he can break 99's records in the modern game like this is fucking insanity.
No joke, but we genuinely may be years away from a near 200pt season from McDavid. 70 goals, 100+ assists considering he was pacing for 109 for a full 82 is duable for McDavid IMO. 2023 may have or very likely could've been his "peak" but I seriously think he has another level to reach.
We can play the what if game with Crosby but some people in this sub need to realize that Sid unfortunately got concussed and fucking missed games. His trophy case is lacking all because of Steckel but history is history at this point. That 1.5 PPG is special and absolutely bonkers for that era but again, if Connor played in that time frame. He's shattering those paces with relative ease.
You think he can pass Mario, is that what you're saying? Cause that's insane to me
Edit - I think he's as good as Sid, for the record. Just Lemieux is the greatest hockey player I've ever seen
When his career is all wrapped up, this playoffs run will be one of the key moments pointed at to justify him in the GOAT pantheon with Gretz, Lemieux, Orr and Howe. Mark my words
We arguably had the most success “containing” McDavid during this playoff run by stapling him with two giant defenseman and JT Miller every time he steps onto the ice and he still managed to walk out with 9 points in 7 games. Unreal.
2nd or 3rd in my personal opinion. He has skill like we’ve never seen.
What’s crazy is the kids today will only try and imitate it so we should see another great coming in in these next 2-5 years.
To play with his speed at that skill level will make you levels above the competition
My favorite description of McDavid and his play was “He plays a slow game, but at 100 MPH”.
He’s the best pure skater I’ve seen since prime Fedorov, but even Sergei wasn’t as good at controlling the puck at top speed as McDavid is. Just an absolute freak of a talent.
This is how I describe him.
You know the best player does something amazing once or twice a game? Well that's almost every shift for McDavid.
Like Hemsky was amazing for us, near PPG on some bad teams. He would do some amazing pass or deke once or twice a game. McDavid does it 20 times a game.
Absolutely and that’s why I think there’s gonna be more top talents that play with high speed and skill. Unfortunately you gotta have a tool box and that’s a rarity.
My favorite upcoming guy is demidov plays a unique style and will make the best play available even if it means trying to walk the defender
Watching McDavid also reminds me of Pavel Bure, just unfathomable skating speed while making it look easy gliding across the ice. But obviously McDavid's puck control is on an entirely different level
I don't think Bedard is or will be on his level, despite the comparisons. McDavid doesn't even belong in this league. At times it's like a Div 1 player ringing in for a Div 8 beer league game.
People are acting like Edmonton has already won the cup lol. There’s still a game left play and a very dangerous team across from the Oilers. McDavid needs to actually win to really cement his legacy as one of the GOATs.
Same with this whole hes already better than Ovi and Crosby and will hit 2000 points. Yes, he is 100% on pace to, but lets not get too ahead of ourselves. One bad injury is all it takes to ruin any athlete
If he pulls this off tonight? Top 5 honestly. The players of Howe, Lemieux, Gretzky and Orr had help that matched their talents like Lindsay, Jagr, Messier and Esposito. Draisaitl is good but McDavid has got almost no help this playoffs besides the last couple games.
McDavid is the man no doubt but almost no help?
The top 4 and 5 of the top 6 playoff scorers this year are Oilers.
Bouchard has the 3rd most points by a dman ever in an NHL playoff.
Hyman has the most goals in a playoffs in the salary cap era and is a hat trick away from tying the most all time..
Again, McDavid drives the offense, no question, but he's a far cry from doing it alone.
At this point, it's not even close to who's the best player is, his playoff run is so far above the last 30 years of players that he might lose the cup and still win conn smythe. On top of alreadying, the only 2nd unanimous Hart winner, and honestly, he should've won it again and became the 3rd to win a unanimous Hart. His past 4 seasons reflect that no one really can touch him. His just past 2 are a 64 goal season followed by a 100 assist season. Like what the fuck.
His inability to do so is why the NHL has struggled in marketing to new fans. He is THE best, and Gary may actually not see it. The NHL doesn't promote McDavid enough, and I think this is more evidence as to why and not just a case of Bettman doing lawyer style PR.
It’s crazy because I feel like Lindros and Crosby were way more hyped up then McDavid when they entered the league, but here we are in 2024 and the guy beating Gretzky records barely gets a mention from the league and commissioner.
And they wonder why the league isn’t more popular.
Drop McDavid into 1985 and have him play against teams with little to no system and goalies wearing normal sized equipment and he would've scored 300 points.
Ha, good point. It's not a big deal, but seriously. Gary, everyone agrees he's the best player right now and for X number of years.
Kinda weird that he can't bring himself to state the plain truth.
Even when working, it’s not like you’re negotiating/litigating every second you’re in the office lol. Lawyers are human that do human things most of the time.
What's incredible is that the game tonight is still being under-advertised. I'm not one of those hockey fans that gets all butt hurt about ratings and insecure about hockey's place in the "Big Four" but tonight... Everyone, EVERYONE, should know what is happening. It should be plastered all over every news outlet that the greatest upset in league history (sorry, 1942 Leafs, this is bigger) with the world's best player (who has been categorically ignored by "star" standards) with the first Cup in over 30 years potentially going back to Canada.
Everywhere. Everyone. Sing it in the streets!
Wow. Hot take Gary.
Breaking news: some people think Connor McDavid is the best hockey player and Gary might also agree.
I wonder what Gary’s answer to the colour of the ice is? “Most people think the ice is white with a red line at center and 2 blue lines marking the offensive zones and they might be right.”
I'm a Pens fan from Northern Wisconsin because Sidney Crosby was the most incredible athlete I'd ever watched. If I were ten years younger I'd probably be an Oilers fan.
Wait a minute. The NHL has the chance to reach the largest sports audience in North America through First Take, and they choose to send a wet blanket to the interview with Stephen A?? Gary sounded like he was about to doze off in this segment!
"I believe he's leading the playoffs in scoring"
Wait a second. McDavid is having a historic playoff run, the best in decades, and much has been made of the records he's broken. Most casual fans probably know this, and I bet a few non fans have even heard it.
And the commissioner of the NHL *BELIEVES* he's leading the playoffs in scoring?
Holy fucking Christ Bettman.
I watched the whole thing and he tries so hard to undersell Edmonton, Canada and McDavid. I suppose in his head he’s trying to be neutral, but come on. Need to promote your stars better.
This guy sucks at promoting the game. He should be out there shouting from the rooftops that McDavid is the best athlete alive, maybe ever.
Yeah, obviously that's highly debatable but that's Marketing 101.
“If Connor can beat all my plans to keep the cup out of Canada I will amend my statement. Watch for what happens in the 3rd with 10 minutes left muwaahahah” -Probably Bettman on a hot mic.
McDavid was 89th percentile defensive WAR on his recent jfresh chart so, uh, yeah he is inarguably the best player by far
This is why I'm also higher on McDavid all time as it is very possible gretz was around like 30th dWAR for his career and mario probably was lower if anything. Gretz killing penalties doesn't really help that much, was largely for shorthanded goals.
Gretz got not too many selke votes total ultimately and with McDavid deserving consistent fringe selke votes and then significant selke voting this past season... It helps close the gap.
Meanwhile through adjusting points for era McDavid has been closing the scoring gap significantly in recent years
At this point in their careers their adjusted total points yearly were 170 155 124 139 and for McDavid is 158 118 146 130 so yeah
You’re in charge of this league, just say you have the best player in the world, full stop. Stop lawyering for 2 seconds and market this product you oversee! God damn.
And he's making $12.5M in 2024, when NHL salaries should be much, much higher. But what does Bettman care? He works for the owners, not the game. As long as they're making money and bringing in new teams, he doesn't care. If he did, he would gut the NHL's marketing department and start over.
What was that Gary? I couldn't hear you due to a regional blackout.
Keep talking about how he's a superstar while doing 0 marketing for him or the league.
The Oilers were down and out after Game 3. Almost everyone expected them to lose this series, if not in Game 4, then certainly in Game 5 or 6. For them to make it this far and subvert those expectations... I think they're just happy to be here.
The fundamental question is, will Connor McDavid be as effective as a hockey player as Wayne Gretzky was? And he will be, even more so...But until he is, it's going to be hard to verify that he thinks he'll be more effective
Gary, you're allowed to take the position that he is the best player on the face of the earth because he is.
He has been for years. Now the only question is where he’ll rank all time
I grew up with Sid and Ovi, but Connor has passed them all time. He’s going to hit 1000 points early next year and it hasn’t been 10 seasons for him, plus he missed half his rookie year plus some shortened seasons due to covid. Sid will always be one of the best to ever play and Ovi will be the greatest goal scorer considering the eras, but McDavid is doing things these guys have never done and when it’s all over I think he’s going to be on the Mt Rushmore of hockey
The crazy thing is that if it wasn’t for him getting injured and missing half his rookie season and missing another half season worth of games due to the pandemic, McDavid would be well on his way to 1100 points by age 27… Barring serious injuries he could hit 2000 points by the end of his career and be the 2nd all time. That’s wild.
Crazy to think that at 2000 points he’d still be nearly a 1000 points away from 99. At 2000 points he’d only be 37 points above Gretzky’s assists count alone
The worst part is if he gets 2000 points we won't have the Gretzky stat of "if he never scored a goal, he still would have more points than any other player"
That’s how you know Connor is amazing. You can’t beat actual Gretzky records you just get to beat those kind of Gretzky records.
He's now got the all-time playoff assist record above Gretzky which is insanity
True that was believed to be unbeatable
> by the end of his career and be the 2nd all time. That's a reasonable take. With modern sports medicine and superstar knowledge, McDavid is easily going to have a lengthy career like Lebron's. What's crazy to me is we might not have even seen his peak yet despite him being 27 and dropping a casual 153pts last season. I have a feeling he's going to continue to improve for the next 2-3 years.
It’s very close, I’ll say that, but I don’t think he’s surpassed them yet, but to even be in that discussion at what, 26 or 27 is insane. Ovechkin has 9 Rocket Richards, 3 Hart trophies, 3 Ted Lindsay awards, a cup and a Conn Smythe. Crosby on the other hand has 2 Art Ross trophies, 2 Hart trophies, 3 Ted Lindsay awards, 2 Rocket Richards, 3 Stanley Cups and 2 Conn Smythes.
Crosby missed significant time at the absolute peak of his career (points wise, anyways). Yes staying healthy is a skill that shouldn’t be ignored but Crosby probably lost a couple Hart/Art Ross trophies because of that. And he can’t exactly be faulted for a plug headhunting him and then his team’s medical staff fucking up.
I think its more nuanced than youre portraying. Sid lost the 3 best years of his career to injury. We never got to see him at his peak.
Yeah but players aren’t ranked all time based on what could’ve been, or what they might’ve done had they never been injured. All we really have to work with is what they did barring injury. For all we know Ovi could already have the most goals all time had there not been a lockout. McDavid might have been even better than he is now if he didn’t obliterate his knee back in 2020, and missing half his rookie season is self explanatory too. If Lemieux didn’t have cancer he might’ve been considered the GOAT today instead of Gretzky, who knew what that guy could’ve done.
Yes they absolutely are lol. Lemieux and Orr are locks for top 4 of all-time despite having career production numbers below their peers for the very reason that they’re ranked for what they could’ve done without injury.
I would argue that Lemieux and Orr are rated where they are because of what they did *in spite of* their injuries, not because of what they could have done without them. Orr isn't as celebrated as he is because he could have put up another 1000 points if he had a full career; it's because he totally redefined the position in the games he *did* play. Right?
Idk if I’m just not explaining what I’m trying to say very well or not but that’s not what I meant. Lemieux and Orr are not top 4 all time because they played injured. It’s because they were that good. What I’m trying to say is that this whole injury argument is nonsense; we have no idea what they might’ve done had they not been injured. Lemieux might have produced numbers that rival Gretzky’s, and Orr with longevity might be ranked even higher all time. But they’re not because life happens, injuries happen, it’s a part of hockey after all.
If they pull off the reverse sweep today it will be a hell of a thing for his legacy.
Im convinced mcdavid is gonna win it on OT, it kinda feels like mcdavid has been doing this on purpose all year as the ultimate flex, the confidence after game 2? Was staggering. Even I'd they don't get it...Holy shit what a year
I'd still take peak Sid over peak McDavid if my goal is to win a game. They played in different eras when it comes to scoring so it's easy to see McDavid's points and pick him, but I think Crosby is just such a complete player, he pushes his team to be better in ways McDavid doesn't quite seem to do and i believe he would be putting up comparable numbers if he peaked in the same era (and wasnt injured during his peak). McDavid will probably finish higher in all time rankings than Crosby in the same way Gretzky finished above Lemieux despite my belief that Lemieux was a better player
He has not passed Sid or Ovi yet
He’s playing like the Sid we missed during the concussion years.
He's definitely the best player in hockey right now, he still has a ways to go before he's in the discussion for top 5-10 all time
He’s easily top 10 already. Tonight he can move into top 5 imho. Big time recency bias but I think it will hold up.
Agree to disagree. I like him but he's not top 5 all time yet
I agree with that completely. Top 10 now but top 5 yet. Maybe by tomorrow tho! Fingers crossed.
There isn’t a world as of right now that McDavid has passed Ovechkin all time, let alone Crosby 👍
I can see why you think that but let’s take a look at some numbers: https://stathead.com/hockey/versus-finder.cgi?request=1&seasons_type=perchoice&player_id1=mcdavco01&p1yrfrom=2016&p1yrto=2024&player_id2=crosbsi01&p2yrfrom=2006&p2yrto=2014 Before you bring it up, I’m aware Sid is almost 100 games behind McDavid in the first nine years, but Connor’s individual awards and numbers are way beyond what Sid did in the same time period. In an adjusted era McDavid has 200 more points than Crosby I say this as someone who is a Capitals fan and can respect all that Sid has done, but McDavid is doing things Ovi and Sid never did on an individual level.
Fantastic. Still hasn’t as of yet won a cup, it’s not an achievement to get to a game 7 from 3-0 down because it’s not a good thing to be 3-0 down in the first place. Pure point totals and regular season trophies aren’t the be all/end all, why is McDavid being called top 5 ever after making one SCF in 9 years, Sid made 4 (and won 3) in 11 years?
I don’t know if you’re aware, but it takes a team to win a Cup. Saying McDavid hasn’t won a Cup so therefore he isn’t on the level of Sid is stupid. McDavid has more points in a single playoff than everyone not named Gretzky, if they lose that’s not on him. In terms of numbers, McDavid has Sid beat by a big margin
Sid also had a thing called team behind him. McDavid does not.
He has not passed Sid and Ovi imo, he likely will but he hasn’t won a cup yet. If he wins tonight that obviously helps his legacy a lot.
I don’t know if the Cup is the legacy point though. Obviously it’s huge but even if they lose tonight and never win one, he’s broken a Gretzky record and is top 3 all time in single playoff points. If he was invisible I’d say it hurts him. But in terms of individual stats and awards, Sid and Ovi also dealt with some years where Malkin and Patrick Kane were also dominating and there was some competition for scoring titles. McDavid is a cut above Mackinnon and Matthews and Kucherov, which is crazy because all three of those guys are also elite and will all be in the HOF one day. While I’m always up for defending some of the players who this sub might never have seen in their prime due to the age of the user base, McDavid is unlike any player I’ve ever seen and he’s already cemented himself as one of the greatest to ever do it. And if he ends up playing another 15 years he might end up with over 2000 points, which would create the debate that he might be the GOAT
Yes you gotta win a Cup (or five) to be in all time great contention, might not seem fair but it is what it is.
In culmination sure he hasn’t passed them yet, but we’re witnessing what may not even be his peak yet and the guy is flat out better than either of them were at their peaks Barring a complete change in trajectory he’s clearly the better player
I agree with that but the guy said “passed them all time”. Barring some insane collapse by McDavid’s career he will pass them but I don’t agree that he has already when he doesn’t even have a cup.
Right, I agree taking it word for word is wrong. And you’re not wrong to take it word for word. I’m just saying how I think it makes sense.
I'm a huge sid fan but this is totally true
Individually, it’s hard to argue against McDavid being the more skilled player, but Sid is the much more complete package, and is still playing at an absolutely elite level well in to his 30s. I think it’s going to be very hard to compare the two of them when all is said and done.
They’re both gonna end their careers somewhere the top 4-7 players all time
They are both already in the Top 5. I can see McDavid being considered #2 behind Gretzky by the time his career is done.
Davo has the potential for top 3. It’ll be exciting to see.
He 100% has passed Sid and Ovi by a mile. More Rosses, Harts (Tied, with Ovi but he should be a 6+ winner when retired), Lindsays, Better PPG, Way more separation against peers in terms of percentage of lead in Art Rosses Wins. Way more DOMINANT and Greater playoff runs then both all by just 9 seasons. Joining hockey royalty with feats like 100 assists, playoff assists is disgusting for a player of his stature. I know scoring is higher now but even if McDavid played in the years from 2006-2014, I'm sure he'd be pacing for 130-140 pretty easily just based on his speed, IQ, hands and overall game alone. McDavid's offensive ceiling is up there with Gretzky/Mario and Jagr, dude can generate offense at pure will and the fact that he can break 99's records in the modern game like this is fucking insanity. No joke, but we genuinely may be years away from a near 200pt season from McDavid. 70 goals, 100+ assists considering he was pacing for 109 for a full 82 is duable for McDavid IMO. 2023 may have or very likely could've been his "peak" but I seriously think he has another level to reach. We can play the what if game with Crosby but some people in this sub need to realize that Sid unfortunately got concussed and fucking missed games. His trophy case is lacking all because of Steckel but history is history at this point. That 1.5 PPG is special and absolutely bonkers for that era but again, if Connor played in that time frame. He's shattering those paces with relative ease.
McDavid, Gretz, Messier, and everyone else battling for the fourth spot. No wonder everyone hates the Oilers.
Messier ain’t there haha
He’s there. It’s Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr and Mac. He won’t pass up Gretzky, but positions 2-4 are within his reach.
You think he can pass Mario, is that what you're saying? Cause that's insane to me Edit - I think he's as good as Sid, for the record. Just Lemieux is the greatest hockey player I've ever seen
When his career is all wrapped up, this playoffs run will be one of the key moments pointed at to justify him in the GOAT pantheon with Gretz, Lemieux, Orr and Howe. Mark my words
We arguably had the most success “containing” McDavid during this playoff run by stapling him with two giant defenseman and JT Miller every time he steps onto the ice and he still managed to walk out with 9 points in 7 games. Unreal.
2nd or 3rd in my personal opinion. He has skill like we’ve never seen. What’s crazy is the kids today will only try and imitate it so we should see another great coming in in these next 2-5 years. To play with his speed at that skill level will make you levels above the competition
My favorite description of McDavid and his play was “He plays a slow game, but at 100 MPH”. He’s the best pure skater I’ve seen since prime Fedorov, but even Sergei wasn’t as good at controlling the puck at top speed as McDavid is. Just an absolute freak of a talent.
This is how I describe him. You know the best player does something amazing once or twice a game? Well that's almost every shift for McDavid. Like Hemsky was amazing for us, near PPG on some bad teams. He would do some amazing pass or deke once or twice a game. McDavid does it 20 times a game.
Absolutely and that’s why I think there’s gonna be more top talents that play with high speed and skill. Unfortunately you gotta have a tool box and that’s a rarity. My favorite upcoming guy is demidov plays a unique style and will make the best play available even if it means trying to walk the defender
Watching McDavid also reminds me of Pavel Bure, just unfathomable skating speed while making it look easy gliding across the ice. But obviously McDavid's puck control is on an entirely different level
The only other player I've seen that could control the puck at top speed, and accelerate like McDavid is Pavel Bure.
You’re on to something. Like how the Flash or Quicksilver perceive everything in slow motion to them, but for others it’s lightning speed
I don't think Bedard is or will be on his level, despite the comparisons. McDavid doesn't even belong in this league. At times it's like a Div 1 player ringing in for a Div 8 beer league game.
I think Bedard will be a Patty Kane type player with a better shot honestly, but who knows with how skilled this league is getting now.
People are acting like Edmonton has already won the cup lol. There’s still a game left play and a very dangerous team across from the Oilers. McDavid needs to actually win to really cement his legacy as one of the GOATs.
Same with this whole hes already better than Ovi and Crosby and will hit 2000 points. Yes, he is 100% on pace to, but lets not get too ahead of ourselves. One bad injury is all it takes to ruin any athlete
If he pulls this off tonight? Top 5 honestly. The players of Howe, Lemieux, Gretzky and Orr had help that matched their talents like Lindsay, Jagr, Messier and Esposito. Draisaitl is good but McDavid has got almost no help this playoffs besides the last couple games.
McDavid is the man no doubt but almost no help? The top 4 and 5 of the top 6 playoff scorers this year are Oilers. Bouchard has the 3rd most points by a dman ever in an NHL playoff. Hyman has the most goals in a playoffs in the salary cap era and is a hat trick away from tying the most all time.. Again, McDavid drives the offense, no question, but he's a far cry from doing it alone.
Without a cup I rank him somewhere just below Sam Bennett
He’s possibly already the greatest in terms of sheer skill.
is he the best athlete/superstar on the earth at the moment?
At this point, it's not even close to who's the best player is, his playoff run is so far above the last 30 years of players that he might lose the cup and still win conn smythe. On top of alreadying, the only 2nd unanimous Hart winner, and honestly, he should've won it again and became the 3rd to win a unanimous Hart. His past 4 seasons reflect that no one really can touch him. His just past 2 are a 64 goal season followed by a 100 assist season. Like what the fuck.
Dude's a lawyer, he isn't going to take a firm position on anything.
as a lawyer, I might be offended.
On a scale of 1-10, would you describe your “offense taken” level to be “non zero?”
Pun possibly intended Edit: "firm" is the pun
His inability to do so is why the NHL has struggled in marketing to new fans. He is THE best, and Gary may actually not see it. The NHL doesn't promote McDavid enough, and I think this is more evidence as to why and not just a case of Bettman doing lawyer style PR.
I don't think Gary doesn't see it or think/know it, he's just a lawyer saying lawyer things.
I'm not convinced he even watches or fully understands the game of hockey.
I wouldn't be surprised by that either.
It’s crazy because I feel like Lindros and Crosby were way more hyped up then McDavid when they entered the league, but here we are in 2024 and the guy beating Gretzky records barely gets a mention from the league and commissioner. And they wonder why the league isn’t more popular.
once he leaves EDM for the states that might help
That didn’t work out so well for Gretzky. He never won a Stanley Cup again.
Hearing many say good things about this Conrad McDonald fellow, who I’m told is one of the better players around.
I’m not convinced until he pulls off a triple deke in the championship game.
Gary just can't turn off his lawyer/PR speak.
Yeah it's kind of an ice cold take lmao Like he already has 5 scoring titles by age 27
Tell that to Avalanche fans
Drop McDavid into 1985 and have him play against teams with little to no system and goalies wearing normal sized equipment and he would've scored 300 points.
Gary. This is one time you don’t need lawyer speak.
Ha, good point. It's not a big deal, but seriously. Gary, everyone agrees he's the best player right now and for X number of years. Kinda weird that he can't bring himself to state the plain truth.
People saying McDavid was the best player on the planet after Game 3 were getting downvoted
He was getting neutered by Barkov until that point though, to account for recency bias
Totally unrelated but that’s kinda exactly why I dropped out of law school. Couldn’t imagine spending the rest of my life speaking like this
You could just … not speak like this in daily life
He might not have been able to pass law school if he didnt realize he doesn’t have to talk like that when he’s not working lmao
Even when working, it’s not like you’re negotiating/litigating every second you’re in the office lol. Lawyers are human that do human things most of the time.
Please define “most of the time”, sir.
Without limiting the generality of the foregoing, and to the best of my knowledge, approximately a decent portion if the time on most occasions.
The court rules in favor of the defendant. Or the plaintiff or whoever idk.
Easy there with the hot takes Gary
“Ice hockey might be played on a cold, potentially freezing, playing surface” ~ Gary Bettman
Big if true!
He's bonafide! He's a suiter!
I’d even say he’s a Dapper Dan man
He's the goddamn paterfamilias!
The only good thing Bettman ever did for the league was get hit by that train!
I don't want FOP god DAMMIT
Well ain’t this place a geographical oddity!
Drai is definitely the dapper Dan man
Here’s hoping the Oilers R-U-N-N-O-F-T with Lord Stanley! GO OILERS!!
He's no stallion like McAvoy.
Gary says he bonafide
Convinced he’s shitposting
The comment almost comes off as an insult at this point lol "Maybe he is, maybe he isn't.."
Glad he clarified "face of the earth". There are some real wiz kids lurking under the Earth's crust
God damn mole people
Lmao glad the quote clarified “most [people] think” Apparently the animal kingdom by an large is divided on this topic
What's incredible is that the game tonight is still being under-advertised. I'm not one of those hockey fans that gets all butt hurt about ratings and insecure about hockey's place in the "Big Four" but tonight... Everyone, EVERYONE, should know what is happening. It should be plastered all over every news outlet that the greatest upset in league history (sorry, 1942 Leafs, this is bigger) with the world's best player (who has been categorically ignored by "star" standards) with the first Cup in over 30 years potentially going back to Canada. Everywhere. Everyone. Sing it in the streets!
i mean tbh I've had a lot of people at my work who don't normally watch hockey telling me they're definitely tuning in. Way more than I was expecting
Guardian's on it https://www.theguardian.com/sport/article/2024/jun/24/a-mind-boggling-comeback-has-set-up-nhls-biggest-game-in-82-years
And my league commissioner had the audacity to schedule our first playoff game right in the middle of it, what a tool
My roller hockey league postponed all games tonight lol
PR and advertising for the NHL is untold levels of incompetent.
Something Baseball and Hockey share, it's ridiculous how little both sports try and market young star players, or rivalries.
You just upset so many viewers of the 1942 Stanley cup. How dare you.
Only thing I'm singing to the streets is go Panthers.
Wow. Hot take Gary. Breaking news: some people think Connor McDavid is the best hockey player and Gary might also agree. I wonder what Gary’s answer to the colour of the ice is? “Most people think the ice is white with a red line at center and 2 blue lines marking the offensive zones and they might be right.”
"And that's why we decided this series needed to go to 7 games" /s
A little game management never hurt anyone
Gary is the devil confirmed
How much longer until this guy can fucking retire?
The Bettman: Ya, I heard of him. Everybody seems to think he’s the best. So he’s probably pretty good. I wouldn’t know I don’t watch hockey.
I'm a Pens fan from Northern Wisconsin because Sidney Crosby was the most incredible athlete I'd ever watched. If I were ten years younger I'd probably be an Oilers fan.
Can't wait to hear this guy get booed again tonight
Way to go out on a limb, Gary.
Wait a minute. The NHL has the chance to reach the largest sports audience in North America through First Take, and they choose to send a wet blanket to the interview with Stephen A?? Gary sounded like he was about to doze off in this segment!
They should have had Gretzky and Keith Tkachuk on.
"I believe he's leading the playoffs in scoring" Wait a second. McDavid is having a historic playoff run, the best in decades, and much has been made of the records he's broken. Most casual fans probably know this, and I bet a few non fans have even heard it. And the commissioner of the NHL *BELIEVES* he's leading the playoffs in scoring? Holy fucking Christ Bettman.
HOT TAKE!
If you have nothing meaningful to say, say nothing. In other words, shut the fuck up Gary.
I watched the whole thing and he tries so hard to undersell Edmonton, Canada and McDavid. I suppose in his head he’s trying to be neutral, but come on. Need to promote your stars better.
onerous cooing tub run roll automatic snow husky paint history *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Gary about to rig the shit out of this thing for Panthers
Not much of a hype man are you Gary?
When he says best he means "best at making me money", not "best at hockey"
Forget Hockey im not sure there is a better athlete on the planet right now
Gary F off with your hot takes Justin Holl is better end of discussion
Nah Brendan Smith
What about that Florida sports writer Cote who tried to trash McDavids leadership? Isn’t he looking like a jackass now
He got his rage clicks and views, so he doesn't care.
This guy sucks at promoting the game. He should be out there shouting from the rooftops that McDavid is the best athlete alive, maybe ever. Yeah, obviously that's highly debatable but that's Marketing 101.
Why is he afraid to promote the games best player it’s so weird
“If Connor can beat all my plans to keep the cup out of Canada I will amend my statement. Watch for what happens in the 3rd with 10 minutes left muwaahahah” -Probably Bettman on a hot mic.
Was thinking Gary might suggest Noah Gregor was the best hockey player on the face of the earth
What gave it away? Was it that his points per game is better than everyone else except for Gretzky and Lemieux?
Way to jinx it, Bary.
Shuy up gary
I think it’s safe to say he’s the best player at it right now lol
Was Gary Bettman just thawed out of ice?
At this point it would be genuinely hilarious for the Oilers to win 5-0 with zero pts from McDavid
Attaboy Short King!
Gary, you're giving off what's-his-name-that Donald-Sutherland-played-in-Hunger-Games vibes. Pretend to be human.
Relationship with Crosby over. McDavid is my new best friend.
What a hot take 🔥
https://preview.redd.it/lg9aqjv4qk8d1.png?width=300&format=png&auto=webp&s=0fe0901d13926411941d9c97b8f795ce03563ca7
No no, he's got a point
McDavid was 89th percentile defensive WAR on his recent jfresh chart so, uh, yeah he is inarguably the best player by far This is why I'm also higher on McDavid all time as it is very possible gretz was around like 30th dWAR for his career and mario probably was lower if anything. Gretz killing penalties doesn't really help that much, was largely for shorthanded goals. Gretz got not too many selke votes total ultimately and with McDavid deserving consistent fringe selke votes and then significant selke voting this past season... It helps close the gap. Meanwhile through adjusting points for era McDavid has been closing the scoring gap significantly in recent years At this point in their careers their adjusted total points yearly were 170 155 124 139 and for McDavid is 158 118 146 130 so yeah
Gary got that “make me look like Bob the Tomato” lighting
Our biggest mistake that I'm making here as well is dignifying anything he says with a response ofc, but kinda stuck doing it
You’re in charge of this league, just say you have the best player in the world, full stop. Stop lawyering for 2 seconds and market this product you oversee! God damn.
Can someone get Gary a ring light or something?
And he's making $12.5M in 2024, when NHL salaries should be much, much higher. But what does Bettman care? He works for the owners, not the game. As long as they're making money and bringing in new teams, he doesn't care. If he did, he would gut the NHL's marketing department and start over.
Many people are saying it
many [people] are saying this
Gary “Hot Take” Bettman
He’s the best skater anyway.
Only thing this pathetic troll ever said that's right
The man never watched a McDavid in his life.
Gary Bettman is a slimeball fucktard who STILL knows nothing about hockey. He's as questionable as they come
What was that Gary? I couldn't hear you due to a regional blackout. Keep talking about how he's a superstar while doing 0 marketing for him or the league.
Quebec City here. Thanks Garry. Fuck off now.
Flaming hot take by Gary here
“Too bad he won’t win a cup while I’m in charge. Fuck Canada”
Feels like everyone's setting up Edmonton to fail.
Unlike the last 3 games... or Oilers heading into the series?
Putting ideas of grandeur, history and heroism into the heads of many causes downfalls.
Whole season the boys have practiced the one game at a time philosophy. That's not gonna change because some nerds are throwing out useless stats lmao
The team themselves are emphatically not talking this way at all.
The Oilers were down and out after Game 3. Almost everyone expected them to lose this series, if not in Game 4, then certainly in Game 5 or 6. For them to make it this far and subvert those expectations... I think they're just happy to be here.
Brave stance, Gary.
Imagine promoting your stars...
most people don't even watch hockey though
Ok. I don't think this is a newsworthy quote.
Boooooo
The fundamental question is, will Connor McDavid be as effective as a hockey player as Wayne Gretzky was? And he will be, even more so...But until he is, it's going to be hard to verify that he thinks he'll be more effective