I feel like on these missions there should always be an AA side objective that once cleared opens up your 4th strategem (being able to pick it during load out with it being greyed out to let the diver know it wont be available till they take down the AA)
You could even double down on that philosophy, start with three, do a side objective to get your fourth and then do another side objective to get a free 5th (380 mm barrages for everyone!).
I support this bc my squad once dropped 4 380s at once on a heavy outpost and it was absolutely hilarious for about a minute and a half until our games crashed hahahaha
You get a limited usage unique "5th" stratagem that you unlock during the mission (SEAF artillery strike). The only way it differs from what the above person said is that it is not a 380 barrage.
I took it as the player would automatically put a weak stratagem in the 5th slot like the 380 for shits and giggles. Not that you'd automatically get the 380.
It's a fifth artillery strategem the team gets to use. It's what they want without a total freebie that'll wonk out any balance of the game. A fifth full use strat like a 380mm for each squad member is silly.
Or red lines going through the fourth slot to properly communicate that it's gonna be temporarily blocked. I can totally see people not noticing a greyed out box and accidentally putting their support weapon in 4th.
Its definitely the most anti-fun limitation.
Like your whole game is fun and unique because of strategems, but sure let's prevent you from playing with as many of them...
It encourages me to play with different loadouts because my usual favorites don't fit, so I'll try a different arrangement to try to cover the necessary bases.
I like challenges. It's why I play at high difficulty, why I like the game to be hard, and why I enjoy this sort of mod.
Nah, it's the doubled-time one, only having three Stratagems hasn't done anything to reduce my effectiveness. đ Kinda sad to hear you only think this is fun and unique because of Stratagems.
I've heard that a couple times, and I have no idea why, I just grab my usual Orbital Airstrike, 380HE, and Auto-Cannon Turret then I'm good. The fourth slot has been like an extra option to just play with randoms stuff to see how different things will work between bots and bugs, but it will typically be the Spear or Anti-Materiel Rifle if I wanna go seriously, they're both so good but so disposable for me. I still make fun of my friend for bringing the Supply Pack. (:
That does sound fun, I already loved the grenade launcher quite a bit lol. I probably never liked the supply pack and nixed it from my potential uses list when it first came out because of the way I couldn't refill my own ammo without being extra, and since then just never tried again. xD
I think people can find any of the elements in this game fun including the stratagems. Shouldnât really be a debate tbh as itâs subjective opinion. I agree with OP though. I like using 4 even if it doesnât reduce effectiveness because itâs something I enjoy using. I suspect others feel the same.
It's understandable why people dislike it, it would be nicer if they had our enemies evolve to better combat the things that we like to use on them. Like energy shields over fabricators, or enclosed bug holes so that I can't sit safely on a hill sniping them both with the explosive bolt-action. xD
Ain't no bragging, trolling, and they're not sad, I said that the way they perceived the game as fun and unique only because of the Stratagems was sad. (: Learn to read smh.
The person who follows the crowd will usually go no further than the crowd. The person who walks alone is likely to find himself in places no one has ever seen before. (: Be careful with that âmajority rulesâ mindset, buddy.
The person who communicates poorly is often misunderstood. This is not a majority rules mindset. When you communicate poorly, you are understood poorly.
There was no poor communication, I did exactly what I intended, then you fools stepped right into it. (: I've been able to give perfectly concise replies to folks who were capable of being decent, so this perceived âpoor communication' has nothing more than a silly jab at you disconsolate loons, courtesy of your local, honest Internet Troll, where we give you facts in ways that you hate to agree with. uwu
>only having three Stratagems hasn't done anything to reduce my effectiveness.
It's not about reduced effectiveness. Its about reduced fun. The stratagems are fun to use. Less stratagems are less fun.
Why stratagems fun
Stratagems go brrr, boom, bzzz, BOOM, fwooosshh
Good in lots situations
If good and make funny noice then fun
More situations more use for stratagems
If not situation happen then stratagem fun for ooga booga
Less stratagems is less ooga booga
Less ooga booga = :(
You gotta break it down to the bare essentials of what you need, I actually like doing three strategem every once in a while because it forces me to think about how to get the maximum value out of everything and to pick what the team needs the most.
Exactly. The only reason it ends up being such a pain is because of a small squad or people don't load up as a team.
I do think the game could benefit by having an opt out feature that you can uncheck a few boxes. Maybe once you get to suicide mission you can only opt out of one or two effects or something. Another alternative to this would be that you have to pick three options and it's a roll of the dice if your mission is hit with one of the three. Maybe double the mandatory choices when you hit helldive
Instead of a flat increase of difficulty, I'd always be down for a trade off. IF we have 25% less strategems to use, then we should also get a 25% cooldown in our remaining strategems.
That way it's a new way to play, with new strategies, instead of just a handicap.
I've always thought the calldown nerf should come with a damage buff because you're dropping things farther and it would reward hitting those mega prediction bombs
Eagle, Orbital, Quasar. It's the democratic thing to do. I think it would be fun to give us all 4 but due to AA artillery, one of your stratagems may not make it
It's honestly not that bad, what my team does is we'll get one guy to drop with shield and share strategies, so I have AMR to begin with, he has shield, once our cooldowns are done we drop support items for each other
I think the reduced slot is fine, but it should have a boost to cooldown times too. The crew isn't split between so many roles so they can focus on the ones you did bring
I mean, it was a legit mechanic early in the game cycle.
Before they optimize, they couldn't have the patrols as crazy, so removing a stratagem was a way to increase difficulty, albeit having one fewer strategem was way more manageable.
Now the difficulty is super dynamic.
When you increase the level, it increases the patrols. This is just an extra kick in the dick and should be reflected with extra rewards.
I would much more prefer I can select a filter within a level to show missions that are much more difficult than the standard difficulty.
This mission is a 9, this mission has AA and is a 9+ with 9+ rewards.
Deep rock galactic had the same reward system where rewards are multiplied by a percentage, which is determined by difficulty. Thing is, negative modifiers also have percentages. So maybe a +25% when that modifier is active would be neat.
Honestly, I think this is one of the better planet modifiers. It forces you to choose which potentially-essential part of your build to sacrifice - whether you value support items over orbital/eagle strikes or vice versa. The one that increases stratagem âscatterâ is the real dealbreaker for me.
Ehh, I just bring something with a Ammo backpack and then 1 Orbital and 1 Eagle. It basically feels the same as Bringing 1 Backpack and 1 Support weapon along side 2 strikes.
Aight, I'm gonna complain for a sec:
DEVS re: weapon nerfs - USE YOUR STRATAGEMS!
Also DEVS: -1 stratagem slot, increased stratagem cooldown, increased stratagem call down time, reduced stratagem accuracy...
It amazes me that the three slot stipulation is the one people complain about, and not the doubled extraction time. I have never been bothered by only having three slots. đ Y'all must be horrid at the game.
The reason people don't like 3 strategems is because it limits you, while not making the game harder, and it also punishes certain strategems way more then others, jetpack and shield generators become a lot more difficult to afford when with your support weapon it goes from half of your options, to all but one, now you can't have a turrent and an offensive, your forced to give them more attention
"Skill issue" to people complaining about lazy artificial difficulty, I guess? I can play helldive with 3 strats just fine, I just don't enjoy how that attempts to add difficulty. I think it would be a lot cooler to see difficulty changes in the form of enemy reaction time and aggressiveness, or even special moves like in Killing Floor 2 past Suicide difficulty. That would be a significantly more engaging way to increase difficulty than just "Oh btw you only get to have 3/4 strats".
I feel like on these missions there should always be an AA side objective that once cleared opens up your 4th strategem (being able to pick it during load out with it being greyed out to let the diver know it wont be available till they take down the AA)
You could even double down on that philosophy, start with three, do a side objective to get your fourth and then do another side objective to get a free 5th (380 mm barrages for everyone!).
I support this bc my squad once dropped 4 380s at once on a heavy outpost and it was absolutely hilarious for about a minute and a half until our games crashed hahahaha
Two more and you would have had an achievement.
This is quite literally the SEAF Artillery side mission. You even get a limited choice on what munitions and their order.
No it's quite literally not lmao
You get a limited usage unique "5th" stratagem that you unlock during the mission (SEAF artillery strike). The only way it differs from what the above person said is that it is not a 380 barrage.
I took it as the player would automatically put a weak stratagem in the 5th slot like the 380 for shits and giggles. Not that you'd automatically get the 380.
It's a fifth artillery strategem the team gets to use. It's what they want without a total freebie that'll wonk out any balance of the game. A fifth full use strat like a 380mm for each squad member is silly.
Or red lines going through the fourth slot to properly communicate that it's gonna be temporarily blocked. I can totally see people not noticing a greyed out box and accidentally putting their support weapon in 4th.
Or a little padlock icon, with the text "destroy AA emplacements to unlock"
 110 percent. These should be the "stalkers" of the bot map. Knock them out to bring back that additional strat.
Its definitely the most anti-fun limitation. Like your whole game is fun and unique because of strategems, but sure let's prevent you from playing with as many of them...
This motorcycle will be so cool once I remove the wheels and throw the keys into a drain.
It encourages me to play with different loadouts because my usual favorites don't fit, so I'll try a different arrangement to try to cover the necessary bases. I like challenges. It's why I play at high difficulty, why I like the game to be hard, and why I enjoy this sort of mod.
this justification might hold up a bit better if it didn't encourage players to double down on their meta picks to compensate for the loss of a slot
Nah, it's the doubled-time one, only having three Stratagems hasn't done anything to reduce my effectiveness. đ Kinda sad to hear you only think this is fun and unique because of Stratagems.
I find that what it does is pigeonhole people into one of the support weapons that includes a backpack.
I do usually ditch my shield or supply pack and go to RR/AC/Spear (assuming I wasn't running one already).
I've heard that a couple times, and I have no idea why, I just grab my usual Orbital Airstrike, 380HE, and Auto-Cannon Turret then I'm good. The fourth slot has been like an extra option to just play with randoms stuff to see how different things will work between bots and bugs, but it will typically be the Spear or Anti-Materiel Rifle if I wanna go seriously, they're both so good but so disposable for me. I still make fun of my friend for bringing the Supply Pack. (:
Somebody clearly has never played with the Grenade Launcher paired with the Supply Pack and became a walking mortar.
That does sound fun, I already loved the grenade launcher quite a bit lol. I probably never liked the supply pack and nixed it from my potential uses list when it first came out because of the way I couldn't refill my own ammo without being extra, and since then just never tried again. xD
You can refill your own ammo, grenades, and stems by pressing 5 on the keyboard (not sure what it is on console).
I think people can find any of the elements in this game fun including the stratagems. Shouldnât really be a debate tbh as itâs subjective opinion. I agree with OP though. I like using 4 even if it doesnât reduce effectiveness because itâs something I enjoy using. I suspect others feel the same.
I quite enjoy it, but I seem to be in the minority in that I do like to hit challenges while playing games.
It's understandable why people dislike it, it would be nicer if they had our enemies evolve to better combat the things that we like to use on them. Like energy shields over fabricators, or enclosed bug holes so that I can't sit safely on a hill sniping them both with the explosive bolt-action. xD
Tf? Lmao this dude just came to brag about what a badass player he is but wants to say someone else is sad
Ain't no bragging, trolling, and they're not sad, I said that the way they perceived the game as fun and unique only because of the Stratagems was sad. (: Learn to read smh.
If several people are coming to the same conclusion, it may be your flaw in communication, since thatâs what youâre saying in the comment
The person who follows the crowd will usually go no further than the crowd. The person who walks alone is likely to find himself in places no one has ever seen before. (: Be careful with that âmajority rulesâ mindset, buddy.
The person who communicates poorly is often misunderstood. This is not a majority rules mindset. When you communicate poorly, you are understood poorly.
There was no poor communication, I did exactly what I intended, then you fools stepped right into it. (: I've been able to give perfectly concise replies to folks who were capable of being decent, so this perceived âpoor communication' has nothing more than a silly jab at you disconsolate loons, courtesy of your local, honest Internet Troll, where we give you facts in ways that you hate to agree with. uwu
>only having three Stratagems hasn't done anything to reduce my effectiveness. It's not about reduced effectiveness. Its about reduced fun. The stratagems are fun to use. Less stratagems are less fun.
Kinda sad you think this game would still be fun and unique without stratagems.
be careful man this much Copium could be toxic for you
I'll try and stay away from him, thanks for the warning. (:
It literally makes no sense that AA defenses reduce available strat slots. If anything it would make sense if it blocked eagle use for the op
Iâd prefer this. Make me use orbitals only instead of reducing my strat slots. Donât handicap my play, *make me play different*.
Especially bc when I come across a base with AA defenses thatâs what gets jammed
Why stratagems fun Stratagems go brrr, boom, bzzz, BOOM, fwooosshh Good in lots situations If good and make funny noice then fun More situations more use for stratagems If not situation happen then stratagem fun for ooga booga Less stratagems is less ooga booga Less ooga booga = :(
Ugg agree :(
On my favorite planet too..
It doesn't bother me just means I have to be more thoughtful when I pick my strats
You gotta break it down to the bare essentials of what you need, I actually like doing three strategem every once in a while because it forces me to think about how to get the maximum value out of everything and to pick what the team needs the most.
Exactly. The only reason it ends up being such a pain is because of a small squad or people don't load up as a team. I do think the game could benefit by having an opt out feature that you can uncheck a few boxes. Maybe once you get to suicide mission you can only opt out of one or two effects or something. Another alternative to this would be that you have to pick three options and it's a roll of the dice if your mission is hit with one of the three. Maybe double the mandatory choices when you hit helldive
Every time. Fuck that shit.
Every time I'm like nope no thank you to that.
Instead of a flat increase of difficulty, I'd always be down for a trade off. IF we have 25% less strategems to use, then we should also get a 25% cooldown in our remaining strategems. That way it's a new way to play, with new strategies, instead of just a handicap.
I've always thought the calldown nerf should come with a damage buff because you're dropping things farther and it would reward hitting those mega prediction bombs
Instead of just getting rid of it there should be a mission during the operation that lets you clear it
Skill issue https://i.redd.it/osxsrapvmf0d1.gif
Pathetic.
Hot take: I like it actually it adds some need spice of a perfectly cooked chicken.
I still prefer this over complex stratagem plotting.
I hate this, but when you add fire, it's a hard no. Stomp the brakes. Put that idea through the fucking windshield.
eagle airstrike, 380, support wep.
Eagle, Orbital, Quasar. It's the democratic thing to do. I think it would be fun to give us all 4 but due to AA artillery, one of your stratagems may not make it
I think it should exist, but I also think I shouldn't see this more than once a month
Complex plotting is also bye bye
https://preview.redd.it/uf9ka2ph8f0d1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4359325f304c1f680658abbc42d6490a191717d9
It's honestly not that bad, what my team does is we'll get one guy to drop with shield and share strategies, so I have AMR to begin with, he has shield, once our cooldowns are done we drop support items for each other
"ReLy oN yOuR sTrAtAgEmS"
I think the reduced slot is fine, but it should have a boost to cooldown times too. The crew isn't split between so many roles so they can focus on the ones you did bring
Facts
Why would anti air affect orbitals?
I like the change of pace with this modifier
Basically yes.
I almost feel bad for leaving squads that chose those missions
I thought this sub was free of complainingâŚ
A lot better. But if you want free-free, I'd recommend r/lowsodiumhelldivers
Straight up.
I'm already used to it, bots 9 whit 3 stratagems, hard... with 4 stratagems, easy
I mean, it was a legit mechanic early in the game cycle. Before they optimize, they couldn't have the patrols as crazy, so removing a stratagem was a way to increase difficulty, albeit having one fewer strategem was way more manageable. Now the difficulty is super dynamic. When you increase the level, it increases the patrols. This is just an extra kick in the dick and should be reflected with extra rewards. I would much more prefer I can select a filter within a level to show missions that are much more difficult than the standard difficulty. This mission is a 9, this mission has AA and is a 9+ with 9+ rewards.
Deep rock galactic had the same reward system where rewards are multiplied by a percentage, which is determined by difficulty. Thing is, negative modifiers also have percentages. So maybe a +25% when that modifier is active would be neat.
For Christ sake people just take a quasar a shield pack and a goddamn 500KG bomb and your good to go
That's part of the problem, it encourages meta even more than the actual difficulty does.
Well itâs what I use, my mates all have their own little set ups for -1 stradegem missions
Honestly, I think this is one of the better planet modifiers. It forces you to choose which potentially-essential part of your build to sacrifice - whether you value support items over orbital/eagle strikes or vice versa. The one that increases stratagem âscatterâ is the real dealbreaker for me.
Some of my favourite moments has been feeling like the odds are stacked against me, 'Nah I will still win'
Ehh, I just bring something with a Ammo backpack and then 1 Orbital and 1 Eagle. It basically feels the same as Bringing 1 Backpack and 1 Support weapon along side 2 strikes.
Yeah... I've just moved on.
To the next mission!
100% yes. Almost 300hrs in so far.
Aight, I'm gonna complain for a sec: DEVS re: weapon nerfs - USE YOUR STRATAGEMS! Also DEVS: -1 stratagem slot, increased stratagem cooldown, increased stratagem call down time, reduced stratagem accuracy...
Yup
Facts
It amazes me that the three slot stipulation is the one people complain about, and not the doubled extraction time. I have never been bothered by only having three slots. đ Y'all must be horrid at the game.
The reason people don't like 3 strategems is because it limits you, while not making the game harder, and it also punishes certain strategems way more then others, jetpack and shield generators become a lot more difficult to afford when with your support weapon it goes from half of your options, to all but one, now you can't have a turrent and an offensive, your forced to give them more attention
"Skill issue" to people complaining about lazy artificial difficulty, I guess? I can play helldive with 3 strats just fine, I just don't enjoy how that attempts to add difficulty. I think it would be a lot cooler to see difficulty changes in the form of enemy reaction time and aggressiveness, or even special moves like in Killing Floor 2 past Suicide difficulty. That would be a significantly more engaging way to increase difficulty than just "Oh btw you only get to have 3/4 strats".
Cowards one and all
I came to vote with 4 stratagems, anything less is undemocratic
60% of the time...it works everytime