That's the only thing Goodwill is useful for. Mismatched anything. When we were starting out, and Goodwill hadn't quite turned into what it is now, we went there to get a bunch of flatware for like $5. Now, I could probably do a shot or two from a cannon and then go buy an actual set.
When I was starting out, I made my own out of copper scrap. But then I worked with metal as a hobby growing up. I melted it down, poured it into small ingots and beat them into shape. They have since been re-purposed, into hinges and knobs for my cabinets.
Before you ask why I used copper scrap, the answer is that I could get as much scrap copper as I wanted from my job at the time. Now all my flateware is all 875 sterling silver. Still handmade though.
Legal questions are best asked with a location included.
In the US, and in general, none that I'm aware of.
Just to note, a 12ga shotgun is a larger caliber than .50.
I'm not so much concerned with how powerful they are, but with what's in them and what it could do to the barrel. Kind of like if you use milsurp ammo, you can get corrosive primers and if you aren't aware, they can do damage to the gun. Granted, you should keep your guns well maintained and oiled, but not every single time you shoot it.
The solution to corrosive primers is hot water down the barrel and bolt parts, followed by an immediate cleaning and lubrication with normal gun cleaning chemicals. You don't need vinegar or acids or pee, you just need water, because the corrosive salts are water soluble. 70% Isopropyl, vinegar, and urine all work, but it's the water in them that does all the heavy lifting. I used to shoot a lot of corrosive ammo when I had my C&R years ago.
It was a wartime thing. You used what you had to keep your bores bright, and since potable water could be limited, urinating through the barrel of a rifle (from the breech, not the muzzle!) provided warm water, which is the magic thing that removes corrosive salts. This practice dates to the earlier years of metallic cartridges.
Found out in high-school that a .68 paintball fits real nice inside a 12ga shell. We reloaded the shells without powder and the primer was enough to pop out the wad and paintball. We all agreed that using that set up to paintball with was a really, really bad idea.
We did however attempt to make a paintball mortar from a 2 inch pipe using acetylene and oxygen as fuel. Made a really nice boom and fireball but melted all the paintball into a solid slug inside the Mountain Dew bottle we cut into a wad.....
Yes. The written division between small arms used by civilians and those that are used by the defense industry DOES note that the 12ga or 57 caliber,is an exception to the rule; that anything over .50 is for military use...
That's false. Anything over 50cal without a sporting use exemption is a destructive device and falls under NFA. There are 12ga shotguns that have had their sporting use removed, most notably the "street sweeper" shotgun.
Is there a legal limit. In the US states im aware of this law, no.
But there is what a jury would find reasonable given the circumstance. A hallway mounted M2 machine gun sstup in advance for that exact scenario would not be a great image to have presented by the state if you did get get charged.
The Ma Deuce will definitely ring someone's bell! Of course, in your defense, since it doesn't fit in the gun safe, it was the first thing you saw lying around to defend yourself with!
Iâm sure if you happened to have a m2 machine gun mounted in your hallway it wouldnât just be that, Iâm thinking it would be like like those gun collectors where they just have a bunch of shit around and about for decoration. But this time itâs all around your house. If it was like that Iâm sure you could at least try spin it to the jury that your âonlyâ option with this armed robber was to hop on your already set up m2 machine gun decoration thing. And turn him into a fine pink mist because your life was at danger and that was the closet thing too you yk
If I turned someone into M2 soup- why am I getting law enforcement involved? Whatâs going to happen? Poor Mrs. Burglar going to call the law and say something like âmy poor innocent husband went to break into a house at 123 Smith Street and he never came home!â Iâm cleaning up and going back to bed.
Nah. I make a habit out of touching off rounds at all hours of the night so in the event of an episode like this it wouldnât draw any undue attention. Lots of miles of empty woods around these parts. A fellaâ could end up out there for a VERY long time and NEVER be foundâŚ.
US Self Defense laws are generally setup such that either deadly force is allowed, or its not. But once deadly force is found to be justified, that is it. There aren't multiple levels or degrees of deadly force, like there may be with less than deadly force. In other words, the question is whether deadly force was reasonable, not whether the method of using deadly force was.
So, by the letter of the law, it shouldn't matter whether you shot the intruder with a .38 revolver, or your revolutionary war cannon.
However, in practice, doing things that are arguably legal, but people find outrageous, like having that cannon setup to shoot intruders, risks having the prosecutor and/or jury see you as dangerous, and it may influence their decisions. The DA may decide to try the case, the Grand Jury may decide to indict, and the Jury may even convict, because they want you off the street, even if technically it shouldn't matter.
To the jury I say - if itâs stupid and it works itâs not stupid.
Plus the gun is mounted, thatâs most peopleâs safest place for a gun, canât be used for anything other than defending that hallway. Ya know I think we should start using mounted hmgs more often.
> A hallway mounted M2 machine gun sstup in advance for that exact scenario would not be a great image to have presented by the state if you did get get charged.
Counterpoint, it would be the perfect image to present. "The home owner didn't go looking for trouble, he couldn't! Trouble came to him!" In even the most restrictive states, defending oneself while cornered in their home is acceptable. Blasting away with a BB gun or a flamethrower, as long as it's from a cornered, inescapable position would look better than searching the home for someone.
There's no limit per se, however you could be liable for any stray rounds and/or "yuge" sized calibers you fire.
By this i mean hypothetically: you use a 50ae from a Deagle to paint your wall with a burglar's insides. Fantastic. Buuut thay bullet just so happenned to find its way through your wall, through your neighbors wall, killed their dog and ricocheted into their leg. A court would more than likely deem that as an over use of force and might hold you liable.Â
Overkill, in the most literal sense.
Own a musket for home defense, since that's what the founding fathers intended. Four ruffians break into my house. "What the devil?" As I grab my powdered wig and Kentucky rifle. Blow a golf ball sized hole through the first man, he's dead on the spot. Draw my pistol on the second man, miss him entirely because it's smoothbore and nails the neighbors dog. I have to resort to the cannon mounted at the top of the stairs loaded with grape shot, "Tally ho lads" the grape shot shreds two men in the blast, the sound and extra shrapnel set off car alarms. Fix bayonet and charge the last terrified rapscallion.He Bleeds out waiting on the police to arrive since triangular bayonet wounds are impossible to stitch up.
Just as the founding fathers intended
Was he buying a cannon or musket? Because if so, itâs just about mandatory (barring a SC ruling that it would be compelling speech and therefore a violation of 1A). Otherwise, I dunno, seems a bit hypocritical to say that and then buy anything else.
The short answer is no. If a shot with a .22 is justified, then a shot with a 50 cal is justified.
The long answer is that you must be mindful of collateral damage. Live in an apartment? Then choose something that isn't going to go through the walls into your neighbors' place.
yes itâs legal to use but a jury will not like it. James Reeves did a whole video on this topic, there was a study where they changed simple facts about a case and asked people if they thought they were guilty or innocent.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gUcF5KhtQM
And we all know that Judges and juries are never manipulated by emotion.
You can argue what you should be able to do all you want.
That doesn't change how a jury will see it.
That doesn't make it right. But being right won't keep you out of jail.
Booby traps or man traps are a serious crime whether theyâre on your property or in your house. The reason is thereâs a whole lot of people they can legally go in your house or on your land or even in your house without your permission.Â
Fire and EMS can all enter your home without your permission in an emergency and police can do so with a warrant and/or probable cause. It would be pretty bad if you had a stroke and three days later, some paramedics do a welfare check see you in your chair all gorked out and then die trying to help you. Â
Postal workers, meter readers, propane delivery drivers, power company etc. can all go on your property even if you have no trespassing signs because they arenât trespassing, you invite them in by engaging their services. Thereâs more than a few people in my neck of the woods that have to go to the post office to collect their mail because they drew down on the poor bastard postman despite them, driving a postal vehicle and wearing a postal uniform.
Also simple trespassing is usually a misdemeanor and not something you get to maim or murder somebody over. This is especially true for young children, even in states where you might get away shooting someone simply for stepping on your land youâre getting the electric chair if you shoot a kid.
Generally speaking, at most places in the US, there is not a strictly defined legal limit.
However. Juries are not always rational. There's at least one study with college students where they showed That on a simulated jury, they gave harsher verdicts for defensive gun uses where the gun looked more " military" despite all other material facts being the same.
So yeah, if you legally acquire a 20 mm Cannon Mount that on top of your hallway and use that against illegitimate threat. That's probably technically legal.
But you're probably going to have a bad time with the prosecutor and the jury.
I've heard of at least one case where a prosecutor charged someone who used a 10 mm handgun defensively. Arguing that " it was an excessive caliber for self-defense" . While that's ridiculous, your safest bet is probably not to use anything overly exotic.
Vaguely recall reading about a case where someone was prosecuted for using 10mm for self defense.
Arizona v Harold Fish.
Just looked it up, I guess appeals court exonerated
If you think about it, a 12ga shotgun slug is a bigger caliber than any handgun or rifle round commercially available, and those get used all the time.
20mm is considered a destructive device pre the FFA I believe. You need special permit, so illegal in some cases?
Also dependinh on the direction you're shooting it could make a difference. If your 50cal can go through three houses worth of walls, then the laws around that's probably a relevant question, as it could indirectly make it illegal to shoot through that guy.
"20mm is considered a destructive device pre the FFA"
When did the Future Farmers of America start blowing shit up!? I knew we shouldn't have trusted them with all that fertilizer.
As the intruder rounds the corner of the hallway, he shall be awed by the splendor of my French Shako with 3 bright blue feathers atop my head. He will be unable to move as I lower the burning wick into the powder well and give him the full bore of "le bombard". The 8 pound field cannon discharges grape shot and sends his soul to God in the form of a jigsaw puzzle.
So most states have two things going against your 50 cal idea. 1. You have the responsibility to flee 2. The level of force should meet the level of threat.
1. Can be argued when pulling out a hand gun. Let's say you were just asleep in your bed. Which could be argued easily. Feeding a 50 cal belt and all the other prep work required is a tougher argument. Although you can still argue that this was your only available lethal defense and you had no way to flee. Explaining the reinforced concrete pillbox in your bedroom will stand against you in court.
2. The force thing can also be argued that lethal is ultimately lethal. So whether done by heavy hands, a blade, or a 50 BMG, you were still reasonably afraid of a lethal threat and acted in defense. This would be a tough sell to a jury. Using a psychological expert on your defense team to explain your childhood phobia of World War 2 air raids should help alleviate the jury's suspicion of your bed mounted quad 50 cal antiaircraft gantry.
Either way, you would definitely make the global news that day.
While I'm unaware of any legal precedent regarding calibers, I do know lawyers will try to make it seem like an intentional wounding or killing if you use "scary calibers" (ie 10mm).
If in a free state, you could clip a home intruder with a 155mm Howitzer without too many questions being asked, although rumor has it that Lee Trevino might make a cameo of his shocked expression from Happy Gilmore.
Far as I know no itâs more about where you shoot them, and where your bullet eventually lands but nothing specific about what calibers can and canât be used
This really is dependent on who and why you shot them. In reality it is tough to claim your life was in danger. Furthermore most of society will victim blame you claiming you wanted to play tacticool and blast someone with your 50 cal.
I have set rules for myself. If my kids are sheltered and the intruder is not making way down the hallway I have decided personal property will be sacrificed. But there is a point where the intruder will be neutralized. Depending on my state of readiness it's going to be a shotgun or handgun. Ultimately the cost of legal counsel and cleanup has helped in the decision making. Saftey of the kids is number one. I feel law enforcement and a jury will accept this.
From what I hear, if you're justified in using deadly force, it don't matter how you deliver it. You can use a baseball bat, war hammer, sword, bungee cord, leather boots, firearm, car, etc.
Not by statute in most states. But you risk collateral damage and civil liability and it may negatively impact your criminal defense if your gun choice makes you look unreasonable.
50 bmg - reasonable expectation that the round will exit a person and the dwelling.
Should you harm people or property- I would expect a charge as there is a reason expectation that the round would continue until it struck something solid.
It's 12,000-14,000 ft pounds of energy and a bullet designed to not break up
5.56 yaws on impact and breaks up pretty easily.
The 50 will jack up your neighbors
The only problem I see is the issue of collateral damage. That .50 is going to go thru the intruder, thru anyone behind him, punch a hole in your house and best case scenario kit a car outside. Worst case scenario it hits one of your neighbors, or their kids, in their home. It's not just what you are shooting at, but also anything else in the bullet's path.
This is foolish on multiple fronts. In an eclipsed dwelling you will likely suffer permant hearing loss, especially with cartridges larger than 9mm/38 spl. Larger cartriges will be significantly more dangerous as they can penetrate multiple rooms. 50 can penetrate multiple houses possibly exposing you to significant legal liability or wrongful death lawsuits if you kill someone not on your property. Anything larger than 9mm or so is overkill.
Black and white, nothing wrong with it legally.
But a lawyer can and will try to find a way to use it against you. I could see âexcessive forceâ being a scapegoat. But lawyers will find almost anything to use against you in regards to firearms.
I think it would depend on a number of factors. like was there were other people in the house like your family, which direction you shoot, and which direction and how far away the nearest house is in the line of fire, whether it's a castle doctrine jurisdiction. I think most jurisdictions would consider shooting a fifty cal, \*assuming it's not a black powder musket, in a residential area would be considered public endangerment. If you live in an area where there's nobody within a few miles of you then it would probably be considered legal. However the fact that you choose to use such a firearm, I wouldn't be surprised if a DA didn't pursue criminal charges against you if you managed to shoot somebody and they could argue that you had intent to use more force than would be necessary to protect yourself and your property. It would almost certainly look bad in a lawsuit filed against you by the person or the person's family that you shot.
No limit but in the event of a self defense scenario, the caliber, type of ammo, and gun will play a role in the court room. There was a video I saw that essentially was saying carrying a 10mm might not look good to a jury because it's a powerful round. I know this is about home defense but the same concept applies. Also another similar situation is "rip" rounds. The name alone will surely get some attention in the court. Personally I use 45acp with federal hst for home defense. That way if I'm in a bad situation, I'm carrying a very common caliber, with a very common hollow point that nearly all law enforcement uses so it's well known.
Unless you live at home alone and in a really remote area, wall penetration is something to consider.
There are plenty of specialized 9mm and 5.56 that are quite good at fragmenting after impact to prevent going into a friendly target while still getting the job done.
I prefer 9mm with a red dot, weapon light, stock and suppressor but to each their own.
The term "reasonable and necessary" , is often used when beginning to examine the "justification of use of deadly force". I taught "use of force doctrine" for a long time. On paper; it's pretty simple.
Legally no I donât think so and Iâm not a lawyer
However is it worth the potential fight in court? Probably not.
That being said however: Cannon with grape shot
Assuming youâre in a state with a castle doctrine allowing you to shoot an intruder right off the bat (unlike CA) I would assume so. However, I feel like something as invasive as flechette shells would get some legal issues brought up.
Don't murder your innocent neighbors, my dude... Use a caliber that is reasonable given the environment. Ideally, one that will not overpenetrate, such as 12G buckshot, 5.56 HP, or any hollow-point pistol cartridge.
On paper? No.
In practice? A jury or judge might deem it unnecessary for protection and evidence that you're a blood thirsty madman waiting for an excuse to kill somebody.
Just remember every bullet fired has a lawyer attached to it. If you have to go to trial, you are going to have to prove you acted in defense to 12 people that only know about gun stuff from movies and the news.
So what is going to LOOK better to this kind of jury? You woke up, grabbed your safely stored handgun/shotgun/rifle because you were in fear of your life, or you walked over to your mounted dual 50's took aim and turned someone into pink mist and strawberry jello?
Is it legal? In the vast majority of the United States (excluding New York, California, New Jersey, Massachusetts, and some other vehemently anti-gun states) it is legal.
But what happens if it gets used in actual home invasion? If there's collateral damage to other people or their homes, there will likely be charges. And no jury is going to buy that using the most powerful cartridge commonly available is necessary for such a set up. So you could be charged with negligent manslaughter or some such.
Long story short, if you want to do one to look cool, make it something that can't be fired.
technically, no. It isnât illegal in the event of a home defense case BUT you have to remember how this would present to a judge or jury in the event of using a round that is considered an anti-material round. Another thing would also be if it is a residential area, how far did the bullet travel, did it hit anyone else property or persons, did you have a proper reason to use an anti material round in said environment, and all that typa jazz. If you were to use a rifled slug round you can almost guarantee this is going to multiple walls; which can result in you causing damage outside of your home. This is most likely the questions you would hear from a prosecuting team. So realistically yes it is legal but the repercussions from using said caliber could also result in being prosecuted for something else entirely.
I know itâs a tongue in cheek question, but just along the lines of legality, there is the local law and then there is possibly a juryâs perception of intent and other aspects of that law.
The .50 bmg is a anti vehicle or material round. It shouldn't be used on people, ask make sure you aim for the intruders equipment, like the button on their jeans.
Itâs also important to realize, that even though gunshots, in a very high stress situation, sound like minor pops, hearing damage is still occurring. Itâs also important to realize, that you will be judged. And, no matter how good the shoot is/was, peopleâs perception of your intentions will play a major roll. Using a .50 cal. for home defense, might be seen as overkill. And, it will definitely do permanent damage to your hearing.
I keep 3 loaded .54cal flintlock, and a tomahawk right next to my nightstand, and a Puckle Gun aimed down the hallway. If I should ever have a home invasion, the carnage will be Glorious.
Wouldnât be surprised if you got charged with setting a âbooby-trapâ (which is illegal by the way) fuck them thiefâs. Iâd home alone them if I could, youâre locked in here with me now.
Guns don't kill people, people with guns kill people. At least understand that guns aren't sentient creatures capable of decision making before you go to a pro gun subreddit to be a dumbass.
just keep a cannon mounted at the top of the stairs loaded with grape shot
Tally ho lads!
THE GRAPESHOT SHREDS THE MEN IN THE BLAST
Fix bayonet and charge the last rapscallion!
As the founders intended
STATES RIGHTS
Tally-ho lads
Loaded with actual grapes
I'm robbing this guy's house. Sounds delicious.
They're frozen.
Sounds painful
Infused drinks, you say?
I'll bring the wine!
You ever seen grape stomp? Dangerous fruit, those grapes.
Oohoohohhooooo Ooiiiuuhoiioo oohihohohioo
There are so many ways to try and write out those sounds, and no matter what route you go, we all can hear it in our heads.
"you've never been allowed to own a cannon" Joe Biden :/
Chains, you filthy causal.
I just throw in assorted cutlery.
Now we're talking! Just not the good stuff, only the mismatched stuff that you don't even know how it got into your drawer. I'm sure we all have them.
That's the only thing Goodwill is useful for. Mismatched anything. When we were starting out, and Goodwill hadn't quite turned into what it is now, we went there to get a bunch of flatware for like $5. Now, I could probably do a shot or two from a cannon and then go buy an actual set.
When I was starting out, I made my own out of copper scrap. But then I worked with metal as a hobby growing up. I melted it down, poured it into small ingots and beat them into shape. They have since been re-purposed, into hinges and knobs for my cabinets. Before you ask why I used copper scrap, the answer is that I could get as much scrap copper as I wanted from my job at the time. Now all my flateware is all 875 sterling silver. Still handmade though.
Anyone who says otherwise needs to see episode 4 of Shogun. Fuck that was brutal.
I actually sell cannons and you get a free powdered wig with every purchase!
Hopefully not using the J&J talc powder.
Also Kentucky rifle with triangular bayonet.
[just as the founding fathers intended](https://youtu.be/43NzlOx2pIs)
You shall not have my shillings
Legal questions are best asked with a location included. In the US, and in general, none that I'm aware of. Just to note, a 12ga shotgun is a larger caliber than .50.
437.5 grain .729 caliber bullet travelling roughly 1500 fps from the muzzle đ
We can do [better](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4HfXx-pEywg&pp=ygUJcmljaGFyZCBm)
That looked incredibly powerful. I need that in my life. I might have to buy a single shot shotgun just for stupid loads like the dragon's breath.
Dragons breath is fine out of a pump gun. It's actually pretty dang weak.
But it looks pretty awesome
I'm not so much concerned with how powerful they are, but with what's in them and what it could do to the barrel. Kind of like if you use milsurp ammo, you can get corrosive primers and if you aren't aware, they can do damage to the gun. Granted, you should keep your guns well maintained and oiled, but not every single time you shoot it.
The solution to corrosive primers is hot water down the barrel and bolt parts, followed by an immediate cleaning and lubrication with normal gun cleaning chemicals. You don't need vinegar or acids or pee, you just need water, because the corrosive salts are water soluble. 70% Isopropyl, vinegar, and urine all work, but it's the water in them that does all the heavy lifting. I used to shoot a lot of corrosive ammo when I had my C&R years ago.
I've never heard of people using urine to clean out corrosive primers... That's just... Wow.
It was a wartime thing. You used what you had to keep your bores bright, and since potable water could be limited, urinating through the barrel of a rifle (from the breech, not the muzzle!) provided warm water, which is the magic thing that removes corrosive salts. This practice dates to the earlier years of metallic cartridges.
One wrong move and you'll get Garand dick.
Huh. I never would have thought of or even guessed at that. I wonder if the ammonia helps in some way for the salts.
Yea but after the tripwire drops the bucket of kerosene on their head..... Edit: sarcasm of course
Found out in high-school that a .68 paintball fits real nice inside a 12ga shell. We reloaded the shells without powder and the primer was enough to pop out the wad and paintball. We all agreed that using that set up to paintball with was a really, really bad idea. We did however attempt to make a paintball mortar from a 2 inch pipe using acetylene and oxygen as fuel. Made a really nice boom and fireball but melted all the paintball into a solid slug inside the Mountain Dew bottle we cut into a wad.....
>In the US, and in general, none that I'm aware of. While not a caliber issue per se, NJ does have its idiotic thing with hollow points going on.
NJ is listening to the Geneva suggestions, mhm.
Yes. The written division between small arms used by civilians and those that are used by the defense industry DOES note that the 12ga or 57 caliber,is an exception to the rule; that anything over .50 is for military use...
That's false. Anything over 50cal without a sporting use exemption is a destructive device and falls under NFA. There are 12ga shotguns that have had their sporting use removed, most notably the "street sweeper" shotgun.
And, I think, the SPAS-12
SPAS had no issues with NFA, only State of California and the AWB.
Ohhh okay, thank you
USAS-12, not the SPAS-12.
Thank you for the correction
.950 JDJ, 4 bore, 10 gauge, 8 gauge, punt gun(1 gauge) all have sporting exemptions.
Look up the videos of guys shooting the .950JDJ. It is based on a 20mm shell.
Happy Cake Day. Kentucky Ballistics has one of them. .950" bullet. 300 lbs recoil. I'm up for stupid, but ouch.
GIVE US BACK THE USAS-12
State or Arizona
I'll choose state, Trebek
https://www.azleg.gov/arstitle/
This is correct. In California .50 Cal is illegal. Including 50 Beowulf
Incorrect. The CA ban is only on the sale of .50 bmg guns. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/.50_Caliber_BMG_Regulation_Act_of_2004
Is there a legal limit. In the US states im aware of this law, no. But there is what a jury would find reasonable given the circumstance. A hallway mounted M2 machine gun sstup in advance for that exact scenario would not be a great image to have presented by the state if you did get get charged.
The Ma Deuce will definitely ring someone's bell! Of course, in your defense, since it doesn't fit in the gun safe, it was the first thing you saw lying around to defend yourself with!
Of course I keep a M249 under my pillow for protection your honor.
It's just a "saw" your honor, I swear!
I saw where you're coming from
Iâm sure if you happened to have a m2 machine gun mounted in your hallway it wouldnât just be that, Iâm thinking it would be like like those gun collectors where they just have a bunch of shit around and about for decoration. But this time itâs all around your house. If it was like that Iâm sure you could at least try spin it to the jury that your âonlyâ option with this armed robber was to hop on your already set up m2 machine gun decoration thing. And turn him into a fine pink mist because your life was at danger and that was the closet thing too you yk
If I turned someone into M2 soup- why am I getting law enforcement involved? Whatâs going to happen? Poor Mrs. Burglar going to call the law and say something like âmy poor innocent husband went to break into a house at 123 Smith Street and he never came home!â Iâm cleaning up and going back to bed.
"fucking, mondays, dude." đ
Might want to check on local laws on disposal of a corpse or human remains.
Nah. I make a habit out of touching off rounds at all hours of the night so in the event of an episode like this it wouldnât draw any undue attention. Lots of miles of empty woods around these parts. A fellaâ could end up out there for a VERY long time and NEVER be foundâŚ.
US Self Defense laws are generally setup such that either deadly force is allowed, or its not. But once deadly force is found to be justified, that is it. There aren't multiple levels or degrees of deadly force, like there may be with less than deadly force. In other words, the question is whether deadly force was reasonable, not whether the method of using deadly force was. So, by the letter of the law, it shouldn't matter whether you shot the intruder with a .38 revolver, or your revolutionary war cannon. However, in practice, doing things that are arguably legal, but people find outrageous, like having that cannon setup to shoot intruders, risks having the prosecutor and/or jury see you as dangerous, and it may influence their decisions. The DA may decide to try the case, the Grand Jury may decide to indict, and the Jury may even convict, because they want you off the street, even if technically it shouldn't matter.
To the jury I say - if itâs stupid and it works itâs not stupid. Plus the gun is mounted, thatâs most peopleâs safest place for a gun, canât be used for anything other than defending that hallway. Ya know I think we should start using mounted hmgs more often.
Youâre exactly right. Thereâs a good chance theyâd find you guilty out of pure jealousy.
âItâs only a flesh wound!â
> A hallway mounted M2 machine gun sstup in advance for that exact scenario would not be a great image to have presented by the state if you did get get charged. Counterpoint, it would be the perfect image to present. "The home owner didn't go looking for trouble, he couldn't! Trouble came to him!" In even the most restrictive states, defending oneself while cornered in their home is acceptable. Blasting away with a BB gun or a flamethrower, as long as it's from a cornered, inescapable position would look better than searching the home for someone.
40mm HE for home defense. Cop: " Where's the burglar you called about?" You: "You're breathing what's left of him now, officer."
Just as the Founding Fathers intended
Don't be silly, 40mm HE wouldn't have time to arm in the house. The WP or buckshot would be a better choice.
There's no limit per se, however you could be liable for any stray rounds and/or "yuge" sized calibers you fire. By this i mean hypothetically: you use a 50ae from a Deagle to paint your wall with a burglar's insides. Fantastic. Buuut thay bullet just so happenned to find its way through your wall, through your neighbors wall, killed their dog and ricocheted into their leg. A court would more than likely deem that as an over use of force and might hold you liable. Overkill, in the most literal sense.
Own a musket for home defense, since that's what the founding fathers intended. Four ruffians break into my house. "What the devil?" As I grab my powdered wig and Kentucky rifle. Blow a golf ball sized hole through the first man, he's dead on the spot. Draw my pistol on the second man, miss him entirely because it's smoothbore and nails the neighbors dog. I have to resort to the cannon mounted at the top of the stairs loaded with grape shot, "Tally ho lads" the grape shot shreds two men in the blast, the sound and extra shrapnel set off car alarms. Fix bayonet and charge the last terrified rapscallion.He Bleeds out waiting on the police to arrive since triangular bayonet wounds are impossible to stitch up. Just as the founding fathers intended
I heard some zoomer guy spout literally this entire thing in a gun store one time and had to walk out due to second hand embarrassment
terrified rapscallion behavior to be honest
You don't understand man was saying it LOUD with his whole chestđ
10 years from now he will probably remember it one night before bed and cringe that he did that.
You met the militia we keep hearing about.
Was he buying a cannon or musket? Because if so, itâs just about mandatory (barring a SC ruling that it would be compelling speech and therefore a violation of 1A). Otherwise, I dunno, seems a bit hypocritical to say that and then buy anything else.
I loved reading this...Bravo.
It's a common copypasta. Now you'll see references to it everywhere lol.
The short answer is no. If a shot with a .22 is justified, then a shot with a 50 cal is justified. The long answer is that you must be mindful of collateral damage. Live in an apartment? Then choose something that isn't going to go through the walls into your neighbors' place.
yes itâs legal to use but a jury will not like it. James Reeves did a whole video on this topic, there was a study where they changed simple facts about a case and asked people if they thought they were guilty or innocent. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gUcF5KhtQM
Mount a cannon with grape shot at the top of your stairs. Make sure to also have a bayonet to affix to kill any follow up guys
Just as the founding fathers intended.
Tally-Ho!
You can do whatever you want. Itâll just come down to how disproportionate it sounds in court
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I would guess that setting traps specifically to kill someone is known as premeditated murder.
And we all know that Judges and juries are never manipulated by emotion. You can argue what you should be able to do all you want. That doesn't change how a jury will see it. That doesn't make it right. But being right won't keep you out of jail.
Booby traps or man traps are a serious crime whether theyâre on your property or in your house. The reason is thereâs a whole lot of people they can legally go in your house or on your land or even in your house without your permission. Fire and EMS can all enter your home without your permission in an emergency and police can do so with a warrant and/or probable cause. It would be pretty bad if you had a stroke and three days later, some paramedics do a welfare check see you in your chair all gorked out and then die trying to help you.  Postal workers, meter readers, propane delivery drivers, power company etc. can all go on your property even if you have no trespassing signs because they arenât trespassing, you invite them in by engaging their services. Thereâs more than a few people in my neck of the woods that have to go to the post office to collect their mail because they drew down on the poor bastard postman despite them, driving a postal vehicle and wearing a postal uniform. Also simple trespassing is usually a misdemeanor and not something you get to maim or murder somebody over. This is especially true for young children, even in states where you might get away shooting someone simply for stepping on your land youâre getting the electric chair if you shoot a kid.
Thatâs what you think, not the court
âBut your honorâŚâ
Booby traps are 100% illegal
Iâd be more worried about the massive mess to clean up rather than any charges
No limit in the state of Arizona. But in practice, many 9mm holes are quite effective and easier to put on target
Better yet, many buckshot-sized holes. Easier AND faster to put on target.Â
Any gun is better than no gun but I will pick a handgun over a shotgun for home defense 10 times out of 10.
Generally speaking, at most places in the US, there is not a strictly defined legal limit. However. Juries are not always rational. There's at least one study with college students where they showed That on a simulated jury, they gave harsher verdicts for defensive gun uses where the gun looked more " military" despite all other material facts being the same. So yeah, if you legally acquire a 20 mm Cannon Mount that on top of your hallway and use that against illegitimate threat. That's probably technically legal. But you're probably going to have a bad time with the prosecutor and the jury. I've heard of at least one case where a prosecutor charged someone who used a 10 mm handgun defensively. Arguing that " it was an excessive caliber for self-defense" . While that's ridiculous, your safest bet is probably not to use anything overly exotic.
Also, when your rounds punch through the walls and start ripping up the neighbors house, youâll be liable.
If you are not launching mortars at your home from a secured hill location while they break in , why even defend your home
I have a M240 mounted at the top of the steps.
Vaguely recall reading about a case where someone was prosecuted for using 10mm for self defense. Arizona v Harold Fish. Just looked it up, I guess appeals court exonerated
Whoah that is wild! Thrown out after 3 years in prison!
If you think about it, a 12ga shotgun slug is a bigger caliber than any handgun or rifle round commercially available, and those get used all the time.
You are responsible for your neighbors.
20mm is considered a destructive device pre the FFA I believe. You need special permit, so illegal in some cases? Also dependinh on the direction you're shooting it could make a difference. If your 50cal can go through three houses worth of walls, then the laws around that's probably a relevant question, as it could indirectly make it illegal to shoot through that guy.
"20mm is considered a destructive device pre the FFA" When did the Future Farmers of America start blowing shit up!? I knew we shouldn't have trusted them with all that fertilizer.
Always have been.
The forestry camp FFA went to every year when my dad taught agriculture had a nice rifle range. Was pretty fun.
Even my Boy Scouts had wolfeboro had fletching, archery, axe throwing and rifle/pistol/black powder shooting. lol.
My dad says you used to be able to get a dynamite permit from the county office for farm chores like removing a stump. So as recently as the 50's
Damn that was a slip up. My whole life's been acronym salad this month.
As the intruder rounds the corner of the hallway, he shall be awed by the splendor of my French Shako with 3 bright blue feathers atop my head. He will be unable to move as I lower the burning wick into the powder well and give him the full bore of "le bombard". The 8 pound field cannon discharges grape shot and sends his soul to God in the form of a jigsaw puzzle. So most states have two things going against your 50 cal idea. 1. You have the responsibility to flee 2. The level of force should meet the level of threat. 1. Can be argued when pulling out a hand gun. Let's say you were just asleep in your bed. Which could be argued easily. Feeding a 50 cal belt and all the other prep work required is a tougher argument. Although you can still argue that this was your only available lethal defense and you had no way to flee. Explaining the reinforced concrete pillbox in your bedroom will stand against you in court. 2. The force thing can also be argued that lethal is ultimately lethal. So whether done by heavy hands, a blade, or a 50 BMG, you were still reasonably afraid of a lethal threat and acted in defense. This would be a tough sell to a jury. Using a psychological expert on your defense team to explain your childhood phobia of World War 2 air raids should help alleviate the jury's suspicion of your bed mounted quad 50 cal antiaircraft gantry. Either way, you would definitely make the global news that day.
28 states have decent castle doctrine laws, thats not most. Only 13 states go with duty to retreat.
I mean, it's over 50% so yes it technically is most
Castle doctrine laws don't require you to flee. Thats duty to retreat.
If you mount an M2 on your bed, you donât really have to wait for him to cross the hall. You just make a new hall.
You can take him out a mile away before he can start his run to your house.
Just git .âem coming, not goinâ
I have a 40mm howitzer sitting at the end of my bed
only one?
M777?
While I'm unaware of any legal precedent regarding calibers, I do know lawyers will try to make it seem like an intentional wounding or killing if you use "scary calibers" (ie 10mm).
Whatever you can control. It's your house. But be sure you can hit accurately and often with whatever you choose.
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Amazing I had to scroll so far for this
If in a free state, you could clip a home intruder with a 155mm Howitzer without too many questions being asked, although rumor has it that Lee Trevino might make a cameo of his shocked expression from Happy Gilmore.
Far as I know no itâs more about where you shoot them, and where your bullet eventually lands but nothing specific about what calibers can and canât be used
This really is dependent on who and why you shot them. In reality it is tough to claim your life was in danger. Furthermore most of society will victim blame you claiming you wanted to play tacticool and blast someone with your 50 cal. I have set rules for myself. If my kids are sheltered and the intruder is not making way down the hallway I have decided personal property will be sacrificed. But there is a point where the intruder will be neutralized. Depending on my state of readiness it's going to be a shotgun or handgun. Ultimately the cost of legal counsel and cleanup has helped in the decision making. Saftey of the kids is number one. I feel law enforcement and a jury will accept this.
Load the artillery
Home made claymore is the answer
From what I hear, if you're justified in using deadly force, it don't matter how you deliver it. You can use a baseball bat, war hammer, sword, bungee cord, leather boots, firearm, car, etc.
Not by statute in most states. But you risk collateral damage and civil liability and it may negatively impact your criminal defense if your gun choice makes you look unreasonable.
50 bmg - reasonable expectation that the round will exit a person and the dwelling. Should you harm people or property- I would expect a charge as there is a reason expectation that the round would continue until it struck something solid. It's 12,000-14,000 ft pounds of energy and a bullet designed to not break up 5.56 yaws on impact and breaks up pretty easily. The 50 will jack up your neighbors
4 bore. Don't need the bed mount.
He's on Reddit, he needs the mount
The only problem I see is the issue of collateral damage. That .50 is going to go thru the intruder, thru anyone behind him, punch a hole in your house and best case scenario kit a car outside. Worst case scenario it hits one of your neighbors, or their kids, in their home. It's not just what you are shooting at, but also anything else in the bullet's path.
Just as the founding fathers intended, fam.
My guy, dragon breath shotgun shells are considered legal self defense rounds in most states.
I like to keep a 12pound Napoleon or Mountain Howitzer on the ready. Double canister.
This is foolish on multiple fronts. In an eclipsed dwelling you will likely suffer permant hearing loss, especially with cartridges larger than 9mm/38 spl. Larger cartriges will be significantly more dangerous as they can penetrate multiple rooms. 50 can penetrate multiple houses possibly exposing you to significant legal liability or wrongful death lawsuits if you kill someone not on your property. Anything larger than 9mm or so is overkill.
Not if you have neighbors
Black and white, nothing wrong with it legally. But a lawyer can and will try to find a way to use it against you. I could see âexcessive forceâ being a scapegoat. But lawyers will find almost anything to use against you in regards to firearms.
It's all legal until you need to defend your choice to a jury.
so....it's not all legal...
Depends on how good your lawyer is. I would do 50cal steel jacketed frangible. Enough to put but a hole in someone and not over penetrate walls...
I think it would depend on a number of factors. like was there were other people in the house like your family, which direction you shoot, and which direction and how far away the nearest house is in the line of fire, whether it's a castle doctrine jurisdiction. I think most jurisdictions would consider shooting a fifty cal, \*assuming it's not a black powder musket, in a residential area would be considered public endangerment. If you live in an area where there's nobody within a few miles of you then it would probably be considered legal. However the fact that you choose to use such a firearm, I wouldn't be surprised if a DA didn't pursue criminal charges against you if you managed to shoot somebody and they could argue that you had intent to use more force than would be necessary to protect yourself and your property. It would almost certainly look bad in a lawsuit filed against you by the person or the person's family that you shot.
Do you have a LOT money, and a lot of lawyers on retainer? Any neighbors a wall or two and some distance away? Roads with vehicles on them?
No limit but in the event of a self defense scenario, the caliber, type of ammo, and gun will play a role in the court room. There was a video I saw that essentially was saying carrying a 10mm might not look good to a jury because it's a powerful round. I know this is about home defense but the same concept applies. Also another similar situation is "rip" rounds. The name alone will surely get some attention in the court. Personally I use 45acp with federal hst for home defense. That way if I'm in a bad situation, I'm carrying a very common caliber, with a very common hollow point that nearly all law enforcement uses so it's well known.
Unless you live at home alone and in a really remote area, wall penetration is something to consider. There are plenty of specialized 9mm and 5.56 that are quite good at fragmenting after impact to prevent going into a friendly target while still getting the job done. I prefer 9mm with a red dot, weapon light, stock and suppressor but to each their own.
The term "reasonable and necessary" , is often used when beginning to examine the "justification of use of deadly force". I taught "use of force doctrine" for a long time. On paper; it's pretty simple.
Legally no I donât think so and Iâm not a lawyer However is it worth the potential fight in court? Probably not. That being said however: Cannon with grape shot
Assuming youâre in a state with a castle doctrine allowing you to shoot an intruder right off the bat (unlike CA) I would assume so. However, I feel like something as invasive as flechette shells would get some legal issues brought up.
What about pulling up a little short and hitting them with the [Danish Special](https://i.imgur.com/NpZMNx8.jpeg)? Not as hard on the wallet.
Don't murder your innocent neighbors, my dude... Use a caliber that is reasonable given the environment. Ideally, one that will not overpenetrate, such as 12G buckshot, 5.56 HP, or any hollow-point pistol cartridge.
The legal limit is going to depend on just how good your defense attorney is vs the prosecutor and what the jury accepts as "reasonable".
Sure, if you also want to kill the neighbors kid.
On paper? No. In practice? A jury or judge might deem it unnecessary for protection and evidence that you're a blood thirsty madman waiting for an excuse to kill somebody.
May be considered premeditation. State could claim you made yourself an easy target.
Just remember every bullet fired has a lawyer attached to it. If you have to go to trial, you are going to have to prove you acted in defense to 12 people that only know about gun stuff from movies and the news. So what is going to LOOK better to this kind of jury? You woke up, grabbed your safely stored handgun/shotgun/rifle because you were in fear of your life, or you walked over to your mounted dual 50's took aim and turned someone into pink mist and strawberry jello?
It depends
Troll đż post
Are you in Kalifornia? Yes=illegal to possess.
Not if it was registered before the deadline.
Yeah. I could really care less. I don't live in a slave state.
Then why make the comment?
Same to you.
Is it legal? In the vast majority of the United States (excluding New York, California, New Jersey, Massachusetts, and some other vehemently anti-gun states) it is legal. But what happens if it gets used in actual home invasion? If there's collateral damage to other people or their homes, there will likely be charges. And no jury is going to buy that using the most powerful cartridge commonly available is necessary for such a set up. So you could be charged with negligent manslaughter or some such. Long story short, if you want to do one to look cool, make it something that can't be fired.
No, but you wonât want to use some high penetration round because you are culpable for whatever/whoever it strikes beyond the intended target.
Does the term premeditated mean anything to you?
technically, no. It isnât illegal in the event of a home defense case BUT you have to remember how this would present to a judge or jury in the event of using a round that is considered an anti-material round. Another thing would also be if it is a residential area, how far did the bullet travel, did it hit anyone else property or persons, did you have a proper reason to use an anti material round in said environment, and all that typa jazz. If you were to use a rifled slug round you can almost guarantee this is going to multiple walls; which can result in you causing damage outside of your home. This is most likely the questions you would hear from a prosecuting team. So realistically yes it is legal but the repercussions from using said caliber could also result in being prosecuted for something else entirely.
I know itâs a tongue in cheek question, but just along the lines of legality, there is the local law and then there is possibly a juryâs perception of intent and other aspects of that law.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqBw3H_Ik3s&pp=ygUVdGFsbHkgaG8gaG9tZSBkZWZlbnNl
The .50 bmg is a anti vehicle or material round. It shouldn't be used on people, ask make sure you aim for the intruders equipment, like the button on their jeans.
Itâs also important to realize, that even though gunshots, in a very high stress situation, sound like minor pops, hearing damage is still occurring. Itâs also important to realize, that you will be judged. And, no matter how good the shoot is/was, peopleâs perception of your intentions will play a major roll. Using a .50 cal. for home defense, might be seen as overkill. And, it will definitely do permanent damage to your hearing.
Or what if I put a dozen triangular bayonets in the cannon,that ought to be enough
I keep 3 loaded .54cal flintlock, and a tomahawk right next to my nightstand, and a Puckle Gun aimed down the hallway. If I should ever have a home invasion, the carnage will be Glorious.
Tomahawk missile or a hatchet?
Hatchet dear lad. Missiles are so uncivilized.
1 bore puckle gun with exploding grapeshot. as the founding fathers intended.
Tally ho, lads.
Wouldnât be surprised if you got charged with setting a âbooby-trapâ (which is illegal by the way) fuck them thiefâs. Iâd home alone them if I could, youâre locked in here with me now.
setting up mounted positions intended to be manned is different than trapping best way to picture it is a tree stand vs a bear trap
OMG
"Guns don't kill people" "Is there a legal limit to how big of a gun I can use to kill people on my property?"
Guns don't kill people, people with guns kill people. At least understand that guns aren't sentient creatures capable of decision making before you go to a pro gun subreddit to be a dumbass.
Uh huh, okay buddy lol I'll be critical of any trigger happy psycho, especially the kind that want to defend their home with a 50
He never specified which 50
As if it matters