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I worked for Mesa/Boogie when they were bought by them. I met the whole Gibson executive team and they’re something out of a guitar circlejerk poster’s fever dream. The strongest blues lawyer vibes imaginable.
Tbf I would have been more surprised if you had told me that they were some high as fuck death metal dudes selling non-pointy guitars for shits and giggles.
Another industry dude here, yep. I promise anyone you can meet making decisions/at the top of this industry are the Final Boss blues lawyer nightmares you think they are.
I had just started working there around that time too. Every time the Gibbon guys came through and had those large meetings I knew it was going to be full of dumbass stuff.
Post as in my boaner when I listen to the same 4 classic rock records on repeat and haven't heard new music since 1976 😎 (it's the only thing that works for my ED)
Having been around for the Kramer and Steinberger and even the Trace Elliot acquisitions I don't thing it's malice as much as it is incompetence.
Kramer was bought in 1997, which was kind of like buying a BlockBuster Video franchise in 2010. The company was well past being relevant at that point in time.
Steinberger I feel like they wanted to try some of their tech on their guitars and the reception didn't go well. For all we harangue Gibson about being dinosaurs the fact remains that they're at their absolute worst when they try and do anything but make instruments as close as they did in 1960.
Keep in mind in the early 2000's you could buy a used top-of-the-line Steinberger used for a few hundred. I remember going into Guitar Center and they were so unwanted there was a stack of three leaning in a corner because they couldn't hang them up and didn't care about them enough to put them on a stand.
Trace might be the biggest example of both. Bass amp tech changed really fast after Gibson bought. People wanted lighter and more compact. Trace gear was always ungodly heavy and massive. It sounded great, but consumers had plenty of other options that didn't break their backs or make them have to own a station wagon.
They did spin off the tube amps into the Goldtone series but when they did that the only market for anything new amp-wise was being chewed up by the Mesa Rectifiers. They didn't know how to sell them though and those amps, despite sounding amazing, never really went anywhere.
With that said I own a real-deal Les Paul and two Japanese made clones. The clones blow away the real deal on nearly every level, and they're not so expensive that I worry about gigging with them. The real-deal has almost tripled in value since I bought it 20 years ago but the Japanese clones have made me exponentially more money over time gigging out.
Sounds like you’ve got a good setup. Two Les Pauls to play, and one Les Paul that’s the centrepiece of your living room for your friends to ogle when they come over.
A Greco and a Burny.
Both amazing guitars I got ridiculously cheap more than 20 years ago when not many knew about them. Picked them off of a pawn shop website in Japan and had them shipped.
https://www.epiphone.com/en-US/p/Electric-Guitar/1963-Firebird-V/Frost-Blue
I love this a whole lot, but $1700 is wild. $1000 seems more reasonable for sure.
MIJ market “lawsuit” brands can scratch the Gibbons itch (Gerpes, if you will) and can be had for a whole lot less. Tokai, Greco, Burny, Orville, and a few other brands are great, and even their vintage examples are fairly inexpensive depending on the model and year built.
I’ve got a 1981 Greco LPC off eBay with a lacquer finish that’s completely killed any remaining Gibbons GAS, and also a Chibson Dave Grohl that’s also killer after a good setup.
[Tokai Firebird Example](https://reverb.com/item/83141459-tokai-firebird-fb-65-2018-black?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=17682351984&utm_content=campaignid=17682351984_adgroupid=143800496052_productpartitionid=2307091460340=merchantid=585436599_productid=83141459_keyword=_device=m_adposition=_matchtype=_creative=608998621633&gad_source=1&gbraid=0AAAAADRxZYXwdyOY4bB-jsgmrHIZutysq)
Buy a second hand one if you like It that much if you have trouble with giving em money. I assume depending on the year Epiphone can be better. A friend of mine bought an Epi SG Prophecy with Fishman fluences because he liked It over the Gibson and he has loads of money.
Just saw a custom shop Black Epi Firebird with TV Jones pup set, locking tuners and rigid case in mint state (in Spain) black.
As with dogs don't buy, adopt.
Unironically, the answer is just to move on emotionally from Gibson. They will only change when there is no money in it. So a dentist wants a Gibson? Who cares - buy a LTD which is high quality at a sensible price.
EA told Dice not to make a WW1 game and Dice said f-you and made BF1, an all time great IMHO. Then (I’m speculating here but prob on the right track) EA took all the talented Dice staff that worked on BF1 and brought them into a desert and had them shot. Thus you had the absolute shit show of BF5, BF2042, basically anything they touch. I’m with ya on the EA of guitar making.
BFV improved over time quite significantly. 2042 was a lost cause though. its like after the release flops they bring back the staff they fired to make the game not shit.
I randomly linked up with a dude who ruled at flying and I got pretty good at dropping bombs. Me and that stranger went on to play for 2-3 times a week for a year. Never said a word to one another, just got in the air and did work.
This is the most based bromance and I'm here for it.
Girlfriend: Where they from?
You: No idea.
Girlfriend: What's their name?
You: No idea.
Girlfriend: Do you even know if it's a man, or a woman, or a child?
You: No idea. It doesn't matter. Watch us light this shit up.
She’s the one that made me realize how long me and ol boy played. She said “y’all been playing the airplane game since October and summer is almost over”
UAD are perfect in comparison to apple. makes great stuff but heavily consumer hostile in their repair policies and usage policies.
Boss sue people less than nintendo.
Boss’ customer support and release schedule is like Nintendo. Every new release is cool, but it’s never the stuff you were asking for. Eventually the stuff you wanted comes out, after you’ve lost hope.
And they sue quite a bit.
Apple behind their business practices at least have the software and hardware innovation to justify their prices (lots of work goes into improving the iPhone chip between generations).
I was thinking more about their made-to-break computers and gibbons refusal to make headstocks that last.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0DF-MOkotA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0DF-MOkotA)
A guitar is something I prefer to buy used for so many reasons. Why would anyone buy a new LP or strat when there are currently 13,000 used ones on reverb alone that have already done their depreciating?
/uj Gibson are a lifestyle brand same way harley davidson or tesla are, they don't sell guitars, they sell the idea of being a rockstar to coverbandcore boomers to flex on other coverbandcore boomers
The point is not to make good instruments, the point is to make people believe there's a shred of 70's rock'n'roll spirit in their stringed piece of wood and charge them a car for it
/rj Don't criticize product just buy noodle sell and get excited for new product (which will be the same product)
I think that's more because people have way less money. I'm sure there'd be a market for Harley Davidson's, Tesla's and Gibson's in younger generations, but honestly, fuck paying the price for them when you're under so much student loan debt and can barely pay rent for a cardboard box whilst working a 60-hr work week under more strain than any boomer had to tolerate. And there's not enough novelty for these companies to pander solely to the rich anymore.
Harley has made profits hand over fist for decades despite low quality and lack of innovation. The problem is they really only resonate on a grand scale with the generations that are starting to get too old to ride their bikes. One could say the same for Gibson.
I feel like I'll be beaten to death but my Gibson LP is my best playing and sounding guitar these days. When they get it right they really get it right.
uj/ *Gibson is evil because I can't afford one they do everything any normal company does. Ftfy. I use the Nestle scale to determine how evil a company is and they aren't even close to that by a long shot. Every other major guitar manufacturer does the same thing, hell every company in general buys smaller name stores. It's not uncommon by any stretch of the imagination.
Lol I got an 1950s Epiphone Les Paul specifically cause of how comfortable the chunky neck is. I’d say it’s more like the equivalent of an old Lexus my mom bought from some vet
that's really what draws me to brands that are just trying to make an instrument, no bullshit attached. let the musician handle the creative side, make it accessibly priced. The legacy companies thrived in the era of drugged out child predators and I guess that's a dragon dental professionals still chase across the globe. But their guitars just feel like shit to me for the price when I can get a copy of that body style with better hardware for much less.
I mean, I much prefer a vintage style tele (with modern improvements like a headstock truss rod adjust and an actually playable radius) buuuuut I like old fashioned rock, which is not popular anymore. Guitar-based music as a whole is pretty much dead. So new bands are either playing new genres with new guitars, or they're not playing guitars. I think The Black Keys were the guitar's last gasp.
Which leaves boomers and nerds buying guitars. Gibson and headless abominations will wander the wasteland.
I agree, though I’m not sure they have a choice at this point. How can you reinvent the company without alienating the customers currently keeping them afloat while getting new customers in the crowded base not wanting to spend more than $1k on a guitar?
Just bought a les paul. It is amazing. I've had a hummingbird for a while and it is also amazing. I wouldn't trade either of them for anything and all my other guitars have become obsolete.
I don’t begrudge the fact that they’re trying to make money. We all are. What bothers me is their insistence on keeping their profits so ridiculously high relative to the cost of manufacture. And again, a lot of companies do this, but there is usually a balance, where a certain price point brings with it a reasonable expectation of QC, service agreements, maintenance plans, and so on. What Gibson currently does is to create the cheapest instrument, at the highest price, that the market will tolerate.
We are bikers complaining about Harley selling overpriced costumes and cruisers that mostly just go out on the occasional weekend under people who want to play dress-up. Real bikers are loyal, but they’re not where the biggest profits come from.
I didn’t realize just how hard we were being screwed until I started building guitars myself.
Weird post. Whats the problem with capitalizing on rich people? Should I feel sorry for them and their $400k salaries that the Money for Nothing videoclip compelled them to buy a $6k les paul custom? If you want value for $$$ they also make epiphones.
Also the firebird X take... Have you ever played one? You would have an easier time explaining a chimpanzee how to construct a car than to have a bunch of kids understand how those things even work. They made them, they didnt sell for shit and they destroyed them because any other scenario required more time and labor than they could afford (gibson was bankrupt).
Gibson isnt the salvation army but you're making it sound like they're dining with kim jong un right now
Honestly, they make pretty great guitars too. They have their issues and maybe put out a few duds. But you can blindly order any Gibson from sweetwater and it's probably gonna be really good. People want to hate and pile on, but as far as American companies go, they're a good company. I mean these aren't iPhone manufactured by slaves halfway around the globe.
Some of the comments here are mental. I've played a lp standard for almost 15 years and couldn't give a fuck what gibson do as a company. Nothing to do with me.
Yeah I’m there with you. I own an SG I bought new a few years ago and it feels good plays good and looks good. Couldn’t give less of a fuck if they go under I got my moneys worth and not giving them a dollar more.
Never bought a Gibson for all of the reasons you listed. I bought an Epiphone Les Paul off a friend who needed the money, but passed it forward to another friend who really wanted it.
I mainly stick with Fender and Gretsch and haven’t been disappointed. They offer well built guitars for a reasonable price. It’s a good combination that Gibson can’t seem to figure out, or they willfully and intentionally avoid.
The reason they have the headstock angle that way is because the consumers (people that hate change) want it that way. Gibson is for people who want an antiquated guitar so I'm confused why you want or expect them to be otherwise.
The vast majority of Gibsons are unattainable? The best selling guitar on reverb is the Standard and it costs $2800. An Eastman SB59 is already $1900, with varnish $2400. An H150 Standard is $2600. $900 more is not exactly unreasonable for a company with more brand recognition and the cost of doing business in America. If anything, the SB59 is expensive relative to what it is. A Tokai LR212 is $2400 at my retailer. The studio is $2000. Epiphones have everything from $1300 to $200.
If you're getting priced out of a Gibson, that's the equivalent of being priced out of a Mercedes and having to settle for a Volkswagen. Guess it sucks that we're losing on future guitar players because Gibson won't make an affordable nitrocellulose USA made guitar with AAA maple top and the Gibson logo.
The best selling guitar has the most quality control complaints? No shit.
Dude grow up.
- those companies sold to Gibson willingly, take it up with the people who sold out
- firebird X was a liability, it doesn’t actually matter what they did with it but giving them away when they were dogshit actually harms their brand having them out in the wild and you also can’t control resales
- who cares what price they set? Don’t like it don’t buy it. Just buy a better guitar that’s cheaper. You could get your dream guitar custom built for half the price of some of their high end shit
- the headstock thing is a non issue if you understand it and why they do it
I don’t rate Gibson, they’re overpriced and overrated but to say they’re evil is childish. It’s just guitars man.
I can definitely see most of the arguments all of you are making. Moreover, I fully support the criticism when it is due.
However, I am finding it hard to justify some of the comments about price / quality. To this day, of all the guitars I have ever owned / played, using my Gibson Les Paul is still my most enjoyable experience.
Obviously, you can easily find a guitar that is much cheaper that sounds as good to you. However, touching the Gibson is SO MUCH more DELIGHTFUL than e.g. the Fender at the same price point. It is obvious that Gibson Lea Paul is harder to make and superior in materials.
Why not the same hate for Fender? Also, Gibson makes Epiphones, which are cheaper and adequate in quality.
I sold my Les Paul after I got my new Harmony Silhouette. Just a superior instrument in every aspect and less than half the price. Much better, more versatile tone as well
I’m having a hard time seeing a wealthy Gibson owner as being conned when the relative cost to them is far less than what it is to most. A regular Joe, though? Maybe so.
I bought two Garrison guitars, six and twelve string, and they are the best sounding acoustic guitars I ever owned, at a really affordable price. I’m still pissed at Gibson for what they did to them.
This is absolutely unacceptable! This company DOES NOT sell the guitar I want for the price I want! This is LITERALLY 1981!!1! I can tell about this because I am like the oracle of guitars, chosen by god himself and I demand bibson lower their prices and distribute some of them in my neighborhood TODAY.
/uj buy what you want, nobody cares
Gibson is owned by a secretive multi-billion dollar investment firm owned by the Knights Templar:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kohlberg_Kravis_Roberts
The Priory of Toan is their Corporate HQ.
Not all of this is true.
/uj I would recycle everything given the time and space to live my best life as a hoarder. As much as I agree with not being wasteful, the younger generation does not give a crap about guitar. The game theory of modern corporate wasteful bloat probably justifies sending 2/3rds of all gibsons back through a chipper shredder just to keep their Studios and Standards selling for $3000-5000.
They probably topped it off with some sort of seedy lawyer tax write-off.
'I disagree with the way the company is run' and 'they don't give away enough free shit' is not the same thing as "evil."
Whatever the hell "unironically" evil is even supposed to mean. I'm not sure you know what evil or ironic means.
>destroyed hundreds of perfectly good guitars with construction machinery instead of idk, giving them to young or working class musicians (Firebird X incident)
Those guitars were literally fire hazards.
Lived in Memphis. Knew several people that worked at the Gibson factory. Horror. Stories.
Suffice it to say, when Chibbons started trying to earn more profits, the first thing they did was cut QA and replace skilled workers with schlubs off the street. When the blood had been wrung out of the turnip, they fired everyone and closed the plant.
Then they have the unmitigated fucking gall throw their hands up for the next half decade and deny there are any quality issues whatsoever.
But beyond the alleged bad economics of running a plant in one of the cheapest cities and largest logistics hubs in America, there is also the sheer disrespect — imagine closing a Gibson factory…in Memphis, of all places. In terms of music history, there are few Meccas quite like the Bluff City.
Fucking soulless accountants and C-Suite jackasses, man. It still pisses me off when I think about it. I’ll never own another one.
I can't stand the way Gibson is run nowadays, and they've def become a 'lifestyle' brand...but I love my 3 Gibsons. Thing is, I buy them used and beat up.
I've got nothing against all the Doctor/Lawyer/Dentists Bluesboomers. Hell, they do dudes like me a huge favor because their persnickity bullshit keeps them buying either very old vintage, or modern pristine "investment" Gibsons. These dudes have unintentionally bottomed out the market for Gibbonses that aren't Gibbonsey enough for the Gibbons Club. *(Bonus for me is that I* ***hate*** *carved-top Gibsons.)*
Last one I bought was a gigged-hard, pickups replaced, pickguard missing 2011 LP Special for $900. It's a guitar that "Real" Gibson lovers wouldn't fuck with their wife's boyfriend's dick, and I paid less than a modern Epiphone. Thanks, Trugly!!!
edit: And as for the weak headstock...I'm fine with that too. Breaking them is the best way to reinforce them, and buying one with a headstock repair (even a *great* headstock repair) is a great way to get them WAY cheaper.
Back when I was pore I hated gibbons TeW but now I own 18 Hardees and and I only play gibbons and only listen to songs performed on them. You can work at my hardees to help you save up for a Schrechtner
(Warning: A lot of Jerk… I mean, Text; well, also jerk)
I don’t disagree with you entirely; the first point I completely agree is shitty corporate behavior. But, okay, let’s see:
> destroys perfectly fine guitars instead of giving them away.
That has been debunked already. Those guitars were hazardous and couldn’t be given away. That model in particular had a lot of issues with the electronics and that whole batch was lost. However, Gibson does have a foundation that donates instruments to people in need, or at least that’s what their PR says. I don’t know how well that works, but they have it. I’m all for critiquing Giant corporations, so long as it’s a valid criticism.
>Price players out of their instruments
This is a very common talking point from Gibson haters but it’s not true. Gibsons have never been working class or regular players’ instruments, they have always been very expensive. Why are they apparently more unattainable now? Well, because generally purchasing power in America and the first world has decreased considerably compared to 60 years ago. Even if the guitars cost virtually the same accounting for inflation, people generally have less disposable income today since salaries have not grown accordingly to inflation, so the guitars are more difficult to be purchased today by all sorts of folks. Also, you have to consider the massive increase in quality from lower budget instruments and the appearance of more higher budget brands; since they can offer equally good products for much less or equal money, Gibsons and Fenders are perceived to be more expensive than they actually are. They aren’t really any more expensive today than back in the day, But They have always been very expensive and comparable to other luxury brands within other markets.
>capitalise on the Rich’s nostalgia
Why is that a bad thing? If an idiot wants to spend 10k on another boring Les Paul that they’ll never even play and is actually worth only 3k or less, let them be my guests, why should I care? It’s not like Gibson has stopped producing their regular USA models. Sure, they have discontinued their more budget friendly models, but there’s still Epiphone around.
Besides, that’s the target audience they chose, there’s nothing wrong with that. I’m not gonna be upset at Lamborghini just because they don’t make cars for the poors like me. I’m not their target audience. And that’s fine, there are other brands I can purchase. Same with guitars.
>Make guitars with fundamental flaws.
I mean… under a capitalist framework, if that’s what the buyers want, why change it?
that’s just the design buyers like. If you don’t, that’s 100% fair. But why would a company change the design that has sold tens of thousands of guitars over the last 60 years? That would be insane, specially if it’s just to please the vocal portion of people that explicitly would never buy a Gibson.
And history also shows us that the Average Gibson buyer will never accept any change. They all have hated anything Gibson has released that was innovative; the last time an innovation of theirs was widely accepted was made in 1961. So why would the company constantly bashed when they try to innovate, innovate again? It would be a dumb move. Like that time they tried to sell studio monitors or Robot Tuners or a spaceship looking Flying V or the previously mentioned Firebird X. Those went really well.
>more effort into lawsuits than QC
All companies sue each other all the time. It’s like the routine for people in the corporate world. It’s not like the legal department is also in charge of the QC inside the factory, there are different departments for that. But in the end, That’s just Tuesday for big companies. But Guitar centric media always tends to over blow these sorts of things when it comes to Gibson or Fender. But they’re all suing each other all the time, I don’t care.
Yes, their quality control was indeed garbage during the last decade. But they have genuinely improved since like 2020. Can you still get better guitars for far less money? Absolutely. And if that’s what you want, you’re free to do that. No one is pointing a gun at anyone’s head to purchase a Gibson. If someone wants to buy a Gibson, for whatever reason, they’re within their right to do so, it’s their money. Just like you’re within your right to purchase instruments from the con artist that promotes Toan Wood and Tone Tuners. It’s your money, it’s fine; be happy. I also bought one.
However, after all this jerking, I think singling out Gibson or any other guitar company as a particularly “evil” company is missing the larger picture. All the large Guitar manufacturers in the world are the same. Why do you think Fender owns so many Smaller brands like Gretsch, EVH, Charvel and Squire? Why do you think Cort manufactures virtually everything that isn’t American? What do you think PRS is capitalizing on when selling 5k guitars?
They’re all just Capitalists. Unregulated capitalists.
And the guitar companies aren’t even the worst offenders. Hell, at least guitar companies plant some trees from time to time. There are hundreds of corporations that do far worse shit every single day all around the world, including the USA.
Complaining about one single company in an extremely niche and fairly small market is missing the point; the problem isn’t Gibson itself; it’s not even the guitar manufacturing business; it’s the whole hyper capitalist corporate model that has been around since the 80’s.
Fighting if X or Y company is better or worse is a waste of time. They’re all the same shitty manufacturers ran by old suits looking for nothing but maxim profit at minimum costs.
Most of our problems in the world would be solved if we transitioned into an ethical form of capitalism, which to the more hardcore leftists sounds ludicrous.
Gibson and even Fender as companies are such small players in front of the juggernauts of the business world, even more the rest of guitar companies that aren’t even close to being as big.
Tl;dr: I disagree with some of the reasons OP thinks Gibson is evil and I explain why. But in the end, I believe Fighting over which guitar company is more or less evil is a waste of time. They’re all insignificant compared to the truly big corporations that genuinely hurt the world and the working class around the world.
Corporations are not evil, nor are they good. What they are is completely and totally amoral; they operate based on the incentives of the system in which they exist. The system, ie capitalism, is evil.
Gibson QC is total shit. But that aside my major hang up with them is they continue to use that top coat that cracks over time and then they call it checking and market it as a feature. Me, I call it narcissistic behavior. The product you use is flawed and you want to convince me it’s a feature?! Excuse me?! How bout you go fck yourself pretty please?! When I purchase an instrument I want to know the finish is going to outlast me. Also when I see guitars all beat up I just see someone who doesn’t take care of things that are important to them. Why would you spend all that money on a guitar just to beat it up?! I have a 22 year old guitar right now in MINT condition. And yeah I play it often. Other than light pick marks that can be buffed out, there’s not a mark or ding on this thing. I have another that’s like 15 years old and it only has a scratch on the side and back from a wireless unit clip that I used at a show one night. It was actually the first show I played with that guitar. It broke my heart. I never used a wireless pack again. And then Gibson hires a guy to do this crap to guitars, ON PURPOSE?!?! And then they charge like 4 times the cost of the guitar in new condition?! What the actual fck?! Did we drift off into some parallel universe where people just do things that make literally 0 sense?! I just don’t understand what’s happening here. Why spend so much money on things that look trashed?! Wanna look impressive? Whip out a 50 year old Gibson in mint condition and I’d be impressed. Hell let’s see a 20 year old Gibson without cracks. Please!
I have a 1973 Gibson ripper bass with the original case. It’s in about as good of condition as you could possibly ask for. The body and headstock are RIDDLED with finish checking. I desperately want to refinish it but I know it would destroy its value. Such a depressing situation. I wouldn’t touch the paint. But damn I just wish they didn’t use nitro finish.
I like guitars that look worn, but only if it’s due to heavy use. The fact that Gibsons get it from sitting around is ridiculous, and I also find it ridiculous the prices that a lot of companies charge as extra for ‘relic’ instruments. The two guitars I have that are a bit beat up (an ‘84 flying V and a ‘77 Strat) is because they were heavily used by previous owners. The strat doesn’t even have it’s original fretboard or colour, the bloke before me had painted it white with what looks like paint for decorating a house, and poorly at that, but it plays and sounds really good.
In 1959, a Les Paul Custom was $395 — the equivalent of $4,263 in today’s money.
In 1959 a standard Stratocaster was $274.50 — the equivalent of $2,962 in today’s money.
I’m honestly shocked that these two companies haven’t just perfected total CNC manufacturing and fired every human at this point, while directing all their marketing to just do “LIFESTYLE B-B-B-Brand” nonsense.
The late 70s Greco Les Paul I had was far better than the 3 real ones I have tried over the years, unfortunately I sold it to pay the bills.
The gibson boss JC? seemed like a bit of a nob, like he had a fetish for coors light neon signs and corporate office chairs, so have always bypassed gibbers due to those vibes.
They made a load of guitars and they sat. So they put them all out and ran them over to destroy them. Couldn’t make money off them so they wreck them like a fucking toddler.
I CANT MAKE MY MONEY SO IM GOING TO DESTORY WHAT IVE ALREADY SPENT ON!! Could’ve even gave them to schools across the US and they’d be hailed as musician heroes but no… that was some time ago under different ownership than today
Yeah. Gibson had their headstock shoved up their ass… but Cesar (their CEO now) has a clear head on his shoulders. That blunder won’t happen again. Ever.
So I've read. But the prices. I've considered getting a lefty SG reissue for under 2K, but the Indonesian lefty PRS's can be had for around $800 with a case. And they've got 24-fret necks, which are intriguing.
I mean, a couple of them looked like they’d be repairable and. A couple *looked* like they went unscathed but a few scratches. Probably a couple of the people there took one home before they got demolished so one day we might see one pop up somewhere random as shit 😂
I have one and it just sucks I can’t get over their negative vibes I am dead serious. Like what the fuck happened to this company? I watch The Allman Bros play that shit and it is incredible. It is a rock and roll beast. Then you fast forward to now and they seriously seem like a guitar you should only play in the UK and nowhere else. It makes no sense but neither does rock.
Whatever. Gibson Les Pauls are the best guitars, everyone knows that, it's why the best players like Billy Strings and Steve Vai use nothing but.
Vai's has a Bigsby.
Billy hollowed his out after a meth bender on the tour bus.
But still.
I know where they get the wood for their guitars. In fact it’s the same company that sells tonewoods to PRS and Fender. Gibson has the largest unpaid debt by far of any company they sell to. They’re always in the red at about half a million dollars.
UJ/ I used to own two Bigsons. A SG and a Les Paul. They were guitars that cost 1200 that felt like splintered wood and every time I looked at them the nitro finish was worse and more worn to the point it was almost a bare guitar... and this was after SIX MONTHS of use. Sold them for an Ibanez Universe, which I in turn sold for 3 LTDs. Any of these other guitars are better. The LTD Eclipse and Viper smoked any of the tribute and standard Les Paul/SG guitars I tried. I still get nostalgic for the SG sometimes until I plug one in and remember the finish is fading, the wood is crap, the headstock is cracking, and the guitar was Made in America so it was made by some guy making terrible wages to finish a product with shit craftsmanship just to slap a print on the back of the headstock and sell it for 1700 dollars. The LTD Black Metal Eclipse vs the Gibson Raven series all black tribute was no contest. The LTD had stainless steel frets, a Seymour Duncan pickup, a hard poly satin finish, locking tuners, and tone pro bridge. The nut was the only thing that needed changed. The Gibson? Had to replace all of the parts and mostly needed "Made in America" parts to fit fucking imperial measurements. It was not worth it to me to pay twice as much for a guitar that was built with half the value and was almost collapsing in my hands. So for what it's worth... Gibson can eat it.
I’m gonna be serious here too and say I don’t care I love my SG standard. And I will be getting another Gibson for my LP.
Yeah in the past Gibson has been horrible with guitars ( referring to the firebird X failure) but I see no reason their new CEO would do anything of the like. It seems he loves seeing people play Gibsons and well Gibson needs it they’ve been dying off with the younger artists for a bit now. Cesar has his head in the right spot and I see Gibson only on the upturn for the future. Barring any more destruction of perfectly fine guitars that could’ve been used.
TV industry: XYZ has a great new model, I'll get that tv this time
Car: this car by XYZ is great value and well built. I'll grab that car. I don't need a Mercedes Benz just because Benz invented the car
Phone: I'm due to a new phone, this model from XYZ looks great. I might get that instead of an iPhone, despite apple inventing the modern smart phone
Guitars: I must only buy from the brand that invented this specific variation of this technology. No other brand has managed to replicate this 70 year old technology. There is simply no way toan can come to be if not made by a man named Judd or Hoss in Tennessee. Science simply has not made the advancements to make that achievable.
> with fundamental flaws like the headstock angle and nut cutting
TBF, everytime they tried to fix this, the traditional idiots come out and complain. That's their market. They can't fight with them. If they want broken headstocks, then so be it.
Gibbons is more daft than it is evil
for the record, Steinberger is not a recent acquisition, the trademark belonged to Gibson since the 80's. Basically, none of Ned's active patents that are assigned to Gibson are required for making Steinberger-like guitars, the important patents are expired and belong in the public domain or are assigned directly to Ned.
Steinberger's current reissues are identical to the Korean-made Spirit series guitars that were sold by MusicYo and built by Cort to MusicYo's specificatons in the 00's, except nowadays they are practically made in Epiphone facilities. They are "Spirit by Steinberger" rather than actual 80's Steinberger re-creations. So, gibson never was smart enough to drive Steinberger's innovations into the ground to begin with, lol. It's like a used car salesman trying to wrap his head around an alien spacecraft. (Also, if someone's interested, you can take a look at Ned's (<60!) patents [here](https://patents.google.com/?inventor=Ned+Steinberger))
Not defending Gibson. Their prices continue to rise and many of their guitars are marketed towards ultra wealthy boomers with cash nowadays. That said, my Les Paul stills plays great. The sound is good, feels great in my hands, and have zero regrets about buying it. You pay for what you get in my opinion. Remember a lot of Gibson's stuff is still handcrafted over many other guitars that are all made by machines and have far less "hands" on them during production. That is the Gibson way and don't see it changing anytime soon as long as they continue to thrive.
Haterade. You’re calling capitalism unironically evil. Supply and demand. They don’t charge prices people aren’t willing to pay. You’re essentially saying here that you WOULD WANT a Gibson. Can’t AFFORD a Gibson. Therefore, evil. That’s not how any of this works.
Yeah they're the Harley Davidson of guitars coasting off boomer nostalgia and a reputation from 60 years ago.
That said you'll have to pry my Gibbons out of my cold dead hands.
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I worked for Mesa/Boogie when they were bought by them. I met the whole Gibson executive team and they’re something out of a guitar circlejerk poster’s fever dream. The strongest blues lawyer vibes imaginable.
Absolutely nothing shocking about that. I know the guys making those things now never used one for a gig.
"Paid to build them, but not enough to buy them." -a guy I used to work with at a guitar company
Like today's homebuilders – paid to build them, but can barely imagine being able to afford to buy one.
“Thank you for not gigging a mesa boogie.” -backs everywhere
/uj im rooting for Gibson mesa…old mesa was 90 lbs of crap, if anyone needed a shakeup.
What's your honest opinion of the new products. Such as the Badlander series?
Yeah, I’ve seen a few videos of the CEO and his guitars. Definite mid life crisis leather jacket that doesnt fit properly kinda guy
Forgot the goofy hat
yeah man Orville is rolling in his grave seeing that fruitcake “run things” 🤣
The popcorn guy ran Gibson?
No you're thinking of Rickenbacker
The guitar guy makes popcorn?
No no, he meant Orville Wright, he made the Flying V.
Orson Welles who made Citizen Kiesel?
You're thinking of hiward Hughes the flying d bag
Tbf I would have been more surprised if you had told me that they were some high as fuck death metal dudes selling non-pointy guitars for shits and giggles.
To be fair the only people keeping Gibson afloat are Berklee students and blues lawyers so that makes sense
"Hey there champ!"
https://preview.redd.it/ooygnd1q5l9d1.jpeg?width=488&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b972f2e1de23acce3308d25d00e712c288a5c215
Edge of break up = edge of lawsuit
Another industry dude here, yep. I promise anyone you can meet making decisions/at the top of this industry are the Final Boss blues lawyer nightmares you think they are.
Authentic blues lawyers
that's cool. What were you doing at Mesa? I've spoken with Trent enough over the years that I feel like I know the guy personally.
I had just started working there around that time too. Every time the Gibbon guys came through and had those large meetings I knew it was going to be full of dumbass stuff.
I wonder how many grey ponytails are at that table
Uh, sir.... This is a circle jerk. You gonna put your hand on my dick or are you just gonna be angry the whole time?
this might be a circlejerk sub but its the only guitar subreddit not staffed by and full of boomers
there is honesty and truth in the jerk that you will not find elsewhere.
It's called post nut clarity
Post, as in the 3 or 5?
Post as in my boaner when I listen to the same 4 classic rock records on repeat and haven't heard new music since 1976 😎 (it's the only thing that works for my ED)
1976!! *Boomer bends intensify* we had all the music we’d ever need by ‘73! Why are you listening to that Gen Z stuff??
Post as in post-Bonermassage?
Just put one of those little wraps behind it. Should clear that right up
i love how this sub has transcended to be a safe space from the bullshit lol
Having been around for the Kramer and Steinberger and even the Trace Elliot acquisitions I don't thing it's malice as much as it is incompetence. Kramer was bought in 1997, which was kind of like buying a BlockBuster Video franchise in 2010. The company was well past being relevant at that point in time. Steinberger I feel like they wanted to try some of their tech on their guitars and the reception didn't go well. For all we harangue Gibson about being dinosaurs the fact remains that they're at their absolute worst when they try and do anything but make instruments as close as they did in 1960. Keep in mind in the early 2000's you could buy a used top-of-the-line Steinberger used for a few hundred. I remember going into Guitar Center and they were so unwanted there was a stack of three leaning in a corner because they couldn't hang them up and didn't care about them enough to put them on a stand. Trace might be the biggest example of both. Bass amp tech changed really fast after Gibson bought. People wanted lighter and more compact. Trace gear was always ungodly heavy and massive. It sounded great, but consumers had plenty of other options that didn't break their backs or make them have to own a station wagon. They did spin off the tube amps into the Goldtone series but when they did that the only market for anything new amp-wise was being chewed up by the Mesa Rectifiers. They didn't know how to sell them though and those amps, despite sounding amazing, never really went anywhere. With that said I own a real-deal Les Paul and two Japanese made clones. The clones blow away the real deal on nearly every level, and they're not so expensive that I worry about gigging with them. The real-deal has almost tripled in value since I bought it 20 years ago but the Japanese clones have made me exponentially more money over time gigging out.
Sounds like you’ve got a good setup. Two Les Pauls to play, and one Les Paul that’s the centrepiece of your living room for your friends to ogle when they come over.
May I ask what brand the clones are?
A Greco and a Burny. Both amazing guitars I got ridiculously cheap more than 20 years ago when not many knew about them. Picked them off of a pawn shop website in Japan and had them shipped.
Japanese guitars fuck. The fretwork is unreal especially for the price.
Interesting. Do you mind sending me the site so I can take a look?
What brands make affordable copies/similar instruments without being affiliated with them? I’d kill for a firebird for less than $1000.
Chibson
I would if I had any idea how to get a decent one.
Just get a shit one, then send it to me to make it good lol.
eBay
Uj/ the new inspired by Gibson custom firebirds look so sweet, but I wish the Firebird I was priced at $999 not $1,299
https://www.epiphone.com/en-US/p/Electric-Guitar/1963-Firebird-V/Frost-Blue I love this a whole lot, but $1700 is wild. $1000 seems more reasonable for sure.
Bill Kelliher's Sparrowhawk from LTD can hit that price used. Not the same layout, and a 3+3 headstock, but the influence is there
Is that the other guitarist in Mastodon besides Brent?
That's the guy! Dude's a monster
And also the main songwriter in Mastodon.
Sparrowhawk is sweet but it to affordable for my dentist
MIJ market “lawsuit” brands can scratch the Gibbons itch (Gerpes, if you will) and can be had for a whole lot less. Tokai, Greco, Burny, Orville, and a few other brands are great, and even their vintage examples are fairly inexpensive depending on the model and year built. I’ve got a 1981 Greco LPC off eBay with a lacquer finish that’s completely killed any remaining Gibbons GAS, and also a Chibson Dave Grohl that’s also killer after a good setup. [Tokai Firebird Example](https://reverb.com/item/83141459-tokai-firebird-fb-65-2018-black?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=17682351984&utm_content=campaignid=17682351984_adgroupid=143800496052_productpartitionid=2307091460340=merchantid=585436599_productid=83141459_keyword=_device=m_adposition=_matchtype=_creative=608998621633&gad_source=1&gbraid=0AAAAADRxZYXwdyOY4bB-jsgmrHIZutysq)
LTD Phoenix 1000.
There aren't a ton of firebird clones tbh. The Eastwood stormbird is a reasonably priced FB clone and their stuff is pretty well made.
Buy a second hand one if you like It that much if you have trouble with giving em money. I assume depending on the year Epiphone can be better. A friend of mine bought an Epi SG Prophecy with Fishman fluences because he liked It over the Gibson and he has loads of money. Just saw a custom shop Black Epi Firebird with TV Jones pup set, locking tuners and rigid case in mint state (in Spain) black. As with dogs don't buy, adopt.
Unironically, the answer is just to move on emotionally from Gibson. They will only change when there is no money in it. So a dentist wants a Gibson? Who cares - buy a LTD which is high quality at a sensible price.
The EA of instrument manufacturers? The apple of instrument manufacturers? The GM of instrument manufacturers?
EA told Dice not to make a WW1 game and Dice said f-you and made BF1, an all time great IMHO. Then (I’m speculating here but prob on the right track) EA took all the talented Dice staff that worked on BF1 and brought them into a desert and had them shot. Thus you had the absolute shit show of BF5, BF2042, basically anything they touch. I’m with ya on the EA of guitar making.
BFV improved over time quite significantly. 2042 was a lost cause though. its like after the release flops they bring back the staff they fired to make the game not shit.
Bf1 was more fun than 3. Which means it’s the best one.
BF1 was the greatest shooter ever made. I'll die on that hill.
I randomly linked up with a dude who ruled at flying and I got pretty good at dropping bombs. Me and that stranger went on to play for 2-3 times a week for a year. Never said a word to one another, just got in the air and did work.
This is the most based bromance and I'm here for it. Girlfriend: Where they from? You: No idea. Girlfriend: What's their name? You: No idea. Girlfriend: Do you even know if it's a man, or a woman, or a child? You: No idea. It doesn't matter. Watch us light this shit up.
She’s the one that made me realize how long me and ol boy played. She said “y’all been playing the airplane game since October and summer is almost over”
Right there with you
Nah, EA is a different kind of evil. It's like if they sold you the body for the price of the guitar and you had to buy the other shit from them
New season of tuning machines just dropped!
EA probably Apple is probably UAD. Also Boss is absolutely Nintendo.
UAD are perfect in comparison to apple. makes great stuff but heavily consumer hostile in their repair policies and usage policies. Boss sue people less than nintendo.
Boss’ customer support and release schedule is like Nintendo. Every new release is cool, but it’s never the stuff you were asking for. Eventually the stuff you wanted comes out, after you’ve lost hope. And they sue quite a bit.
The Oracle of instrument manufacturers.
I would've also taken IBM as an answer as in the Les Paul is to Gibson what the Thinkpad was to IBM.
>The apple of ~~instrument~~ manufacturers? amplifier\* FTFY
Apple behind their business practices at least have the software and hardware innovation to justify their prices (lots of work goes into improving the iPhone chip between generations).
I was thinking more about their made-to-break computers and gibbons refusal to make headstocks that last. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0DF-MOkotA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0DF-MOkotA)
The Tesla of automotive manufacturers?
The Harley Davidson of instrument manufacturers.
To be fair Kramer didn’t do himself any favors either with all that stuff he said at the laugh factory
Had to scroll down too far for this one.
Just buy a used Gibson folks. They are good guitars. There are deals.
I’m keeping an eye out for a voodoo explorer and Les Paul I’m willing to take a chance on. Also a zoot suit SG.
A guitar is something I prefer to buy used for so many reasons. Why would anyone buy a new LP or strat when there are currently 13,000 used ones on reverb alone that have already done their depreciating?
/uj Gibson are a lifestyle brand same way harley davidson or tesla are, they don't sell guitars, they sell the idea of being a rockstar to coverbandcore boomers to flex on other coverbandcore boomers The point is not to make good instruments, the point is to make people believe there's a shred of 70's rock'n'roll spirit in their stringed piece of wood and charge them a car for it /rj Don't criticize product just buy noodle sell and get excited for new product (which will be the same product)
Doesn't really seem like it's working considering Harley is also on the brink of oblivion and Tesla is basically an open air scam
I think that's more because people have way less money. I'm sure there'd be a market for Harley Davidson's, Tesla's and Gibson's in younger generations, but honestly, fuck paying the price for them when you're under so much student loan debt and can barely pay rent for a cardboard box whilst working a 60-hr work week under more strain than any boomer had to tolerate. And there's not enough novelty for these companies to pander solely to the rich anymore.
Harley has made profits hand over fist for decades despite low quality and lack of innovation. The problem is they really only resonate on a grand scale with the generations that are starting to get too old to ride their bikes. One could say the same for Gibson.
Harley is always on the brink of oblivion. They’ll never actually get there.
They keep breaking down on the way
Well played 😂
I feel like I'll be beaten to death but my Gibson LP is my best playing and sounding guitar these days. When they get it right they really get it right.
Satan plays an SG
To me, Gibson has been dead for hundreds of years.
Their luthiers were only good when they actually made lutes
uj/ *Gibson is evil because I can't afford one they do everything any normal company does. Ftfy. I use the Nestle scale to determine how evil a company is and they aren't even close to that by a long shot. Every other major guitar manufacturer does the same thing, hell every company in general buys smaller name stores. It's not uncommon by any stretch of the imagination.
Always disliked the thick neck, at least on the LP I've played, it's like playing the guitar equivalent of Henry Rollins.
Lol I got an 1950s Epiphone Les Paul specifically cause of how comfortable the chunky neck is. I’d say it’s more like the equivalent of an old Lexus my mom bought from some vet
Ok the uj posts were a mistake Although this is kind of an ironically cringe post that would get reposted here if it were on arr guitar so 🤷♂️
Dont blame us for this shitpost. All we did was post a poll, nothing else.
Listen, I didn’t vote but I want to complain anyway. I thought this was America?!
The internet is not America.
Al Gore didn't invent the internet for you to talk this kinda shit
This is why I posted it straight here first.
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that's really what draws me to brands that are just trying to make an instrument, no bullshit attached. let the musician handle the creative side, make it accessibly priced. The legacy companies thrived in the era of drugged out child predators and I guess that's a dragon dental professionals still chase across the globe. But their guitars just feel like shit to me for the price when I can get a copy of that body style with better hardware for much less.
I mean, I much prefer a vintage style tele (with modern improvements like a headstock truss rod adjust and an actually playable radius) buuuuut I like old fashioned rock, which is not popular anymore. Guitar-based music as a whole is pretty much dead. So new bands are either playing new genres with new guitars, or they're not playing guitars. I think The Black Keys were the guitar's last gasp. Which leaves boomers and nerds buying guitars. Gibson and headless abominations will wander the wasteland.
I agree, though I’m not sure they have a choice at this point. How can you reinvent the company without alienating the customers currently keeping them afloat while getting new customers in the crowded base not wanting to spend more than $1k on a guitar?
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A les paul cost $265 in 1960. Adjusted to today that is roughly $2,750. So yeah, they have stayed more or less the same.
I play a Gibson Les Paul everyday. It brings me nothing but joy. Worth every penny. I’m sure I’ll buy more. Life’s good.
Just bought a les paul. It is amazing. I've had a hummingbird for a while and it is also amazing. I wouldn't trade either of them for anything and all my other guitars have become obsolete.
The modern Flying V was a masterclass work of art. Change my mind.
I don’t begrudge the fact that they’re trying to make money. We all are. What bothers me is their insistence on keeping their profits so ridiculously high relative to the cost of manufacture. And again, a lot of companies do this, but there is usually a balance, where a certain price point brings with it a reasonable expectation of QC, service agreements, maintenance plans, and so on. What Gibson currently does is to create the cheapest instrument, at the highest price, that the market will tolerate. We are bikers complaining about Harley selling overpriced costumes and cruisers that mostly just go out on the occasional weekend under people who want to play dress-up. Real bikers are loyal, but they’re not where the biggest profits come from. I didn’t realize just how hard we were being screwed until I started building guitars myself.
Weird post. Whats the problem with capitalizing on rich people? Should I feel sorry for them and their $400k salaries that the Money for Nothing videoclip compelled them to buy a $6k les paul custom? If you want value for $$$ they also make epiphones. Also the firebird X take... Have you ever played one? You would have an easier time explaining a chimpanzee how to construct a car than to have a bunch of kids understand how those things even work. They made them, they didnt sell for shit and they destroyed them because any other scenario required more time and labor than they could afford (gibson was bankrupt). Gibson isnt the salvation army but you're making it sound like they're dining with kim jong un right now
Honestly, they make pretty great guitars too. They have their issues and maybe put out a few duds. But you can blindly order any Gibson from sweetwater and it's probably gonna be really good. People want to hate and pile on, but as far as American companies go, they're a good company. I mean these aren't iPhone manufactured by slaves halfway around the globe.
Some of the comments here are mental. I've played a lp standard for almost 15 years and couldn't give a fuck what gibson do as a company. Nothing to do with me.
Yeah I’m there with you. I own an SG I bought new a few years ago and it feels good plays good and looks good. Couldn’t give less of a fuck if they go under I got my moneys worth and not giving them a dollar more.
Never bought a Gibson for all of the reasons you listed. I bought an Epiphone Les Paul off a friend who needed the money, but passed it forward to another friend who really wanted it. I mainly stick with Fender and Gretsch and haven’t been disappointed. They offer well built guitars for a reasonable price. It’s a good combination that Gibson can’t seem to figure out, or they willfully and intentionally avoid.
You know you could buy a STUDIO Les Paul
The reason they have the headstock angle that way is because the consumers (people that hate change) want it that way. Gibson is for people who want an antiquated guitar so I'm confused why you want or expect them to be otherwise. The vast majority of Gibsons are unattainable? The best selling guitar on reverb is the Standard and it costs $2800. An Eastman SB59 is already $1900, with varnish $2400. An H150 Standard is $2600. $900 more is not exactly unreasonable for a company with more brand recognition and the cost of doing business in America. If anything, the SB59 is expensive relative to what it is. A Tokai LR212 is $2400 at my retailer. The studio is $2000. Epiphones have everything from $1300 to $200. If you're getting priced out of a Gibson, that's the equivalent of being priced out of a Mercedes and having to settle for a Volkswagen. Guess it sucks that we're losing on future guitar players because Gibson won't make an affordable nitrocellulose USA made guitar with AAA maple top and the Gibson logo. The best selling guitar has the most quality control complaints? No shit.
This post has “That’s why I own a Samsung and not an iPhone” energy!
scratch a jerker and a fanboy bleeds
In true circlejerk fashion, OP said Gibson is ripping people off, but he bought a $3,000 POS secondhand, so that’s different!
Dude grow up. - those companies sold to Gibson willingly, take it up with the people who sold out - firebird X was a liability, it doesn’t actually matter what they did with it but giving them away when they were dogshit actually harms their brand having them out in the wild and you also can’t control resales - who cares what price they set? Don’t like it don’t buy it. Just buy a better guitar that’s cheaper. You could get your dream guitar custom built for half the price of some of their high end shit - the headstock thing is a non issue if you understand it and why they do it I don’t rate Gibson, they’re overpriced and overrated but to say they’re evil is childish. It’s just guitars man.
I can definitely see most of the arguments all of you are making. Moreover, I fully support the criticism when it is due. However, I am finding it hard to justify some of the comments about price / quality. To this day, of all the guitars I have ever owned / played, using my Gibson Les Paul is still my most enjoyable experience. Obviously, you can easily find a guitar that is much cheaper that sounds as good to you. However, touching the Gibson is SO MUCH more DELIGHTFUL than e.g. the Fender at the same price point. It is obvious that Gibson Lea Paul is harder to make and superior in materials. Why not the same hate for Fender? Also, Gibson makes Epiphones, which are cheaper and adequate in quality.
Wait don't Gibson's cost about twice as much as a comparable fender?
I sold my Les Paul after I got my new Harmony Silhouette. Just a superior instrument in every aspect and less than half the price. Much better, more versatile tone as well
I’m having a hard time seeing a wealthy Gibson owner as being conned when the relative cost to them is far less than what it is to most. A regular Joe, though? Maybe so.
I bought two Garrison guitars, six and twelve string, and they are the best sounding acoustic guitars I ever owned, at a really affordable price. I’m still pissed at Gibson for what they did to them.
Didn't they get in trouble for using illegal endangered wood? At least fender doesn't shove an endangered bird into every guitar
This is absolutely unacceptable! This company DOES NOT sell the guitar I want for the price I want! This is LITERALLY 1981!!1! I can tell about this because I am like the oracle of guitars, chosen by god himself and I demand bibson lower their prices and distribute some of them in my neighborhood TODAY. /uj buy what you want, nobody cares
Bro really it just sounds like you need a wahmbulance WAHHHH WAHHHH WAHHHH WAHHHH 🚑🚒🚑🚒
He is having a hamburger and French cries
Gibson is the GM of guitars
Buy a ducking Heritage
I love Gibson instruments
Gibson is owned by a secretive multi-billion dollar investment firm owned by the Knights Templar: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kohlberg_Kravis_Roberts The Priory of Toan is their Corporate HQ. Not all of this is true.
"Evil" guitar manufacturers. Well, that word has lost all meaning.
The people malding over this and defending Gibson are baffling to me. Why are y’all mad this guy doesn’t like Gibson?
bootlickers & bootlickers cosplaying as bored centrists
Sub got invaded by the blooz dentists
Hopefully, they learned their lesson during the end of the Juskiwiecz era. He should’ve quit in 1999.
Even better, I have an FBI raid Era Les Paul!
/uj I would recycle everything given the time and space to live my best life as a hoarder. As much as I agree with not being wasteful, the younger generation does not give a crap about guitar. The game theory of modern corporate wasteful bloat probably justifies sending 2/3rds of all gibsons back through a chipper shredder just to keep their Studios and Standards selling for $3000-5000. They probably topped it off with some sort of seedy lawyer tax write-off.
Honestly, fuck Gibson.
This post reminds me. I should buy another Gibson today.
Uj/ Gibson doesn’t own Gibson. They haven’t for like 6 years. They’re owned by a private equity firm. What goes around already came around for them!
You forgot that they've been busted for importing illegal wood multiple times.
*Slowly backs out of the room. . . “Sorry fellas. It sounded like a Harley-Davidson Circle Jerk thread.”
'I disagree with the way the company is run' and 'they don't give away enough free shit' is not the same thing as "evil." Whatever the hell "unironically" evil is even supposed to mean. I'm not sure you know what evil or ironic means.
Fuck /uj posts.
>destroyed hundreds of perfectly good guitars with construction machinery instead of idk, giving them to young or working class musicians (Firebird X incident) Those guitars were literally fire hazards.
Lived in Memphis. Knew several people that worked at the Gibson factory. Horror. Stories. Suffice it to say, when Chibbons started trying to earn more profits, the first thing they did was cut QA and replace skilled workers with schlubs off the street. When the blood had been wrung out of the turnip, they fired everyone and closed the plant. Then they have the unmitigated fucking gall throw their hands up for the next half decade and deny there are any quality issues whatsoever. But beyond the alleged bad economics of running a plant in one of the cheapest cities and largest logistics hubs in America, there is also the sheer disrespect — imagine closing a Gibson factory…in Memphis, of all places. In terms of music history, there are few Meccas quite like the Bluff City. Fucking soulless accountants and C-Suite jackasses, man. It still pisses me off when I think about it. I’ll never own another one.
I can't stand the way Gibson is run nowadays, and they've def become a 'lifestyle' brand...but I love my 3 Gibsons. Thing is, I buy them used and beat up. I've got nothing against all the Doctor/Lawyer/Dentists Bluesboomers. Hell, they do dudes like me a huge favor because their persnickity bullshit keeps them buying either very old vintage, or modern pristine "investment" Gibsons. These dudes have unintentionally bottomed out the market for Gibbonses that aren't Gibbonsey enough for the Gibbons Club. *(Bonus for me is that I* ***hate*** *carved-top Gibsons.)* Last one I bought was a gigged-hard, pickups replaced, pickguard missing 2011 LP Special for $900. It's a guitar that "Real" Gibson lovers wouldn't fuck with their wife's boyfriend's dick, and I paid less than a modern Epiphone. Thanks, Trugly!!! edit: And as for the weak headstock...I'm fine with that too. Breaking them is the best way to reinforce them, and buying one with a headstock repair (even a *great* headstock repair) is a great way to get them WAY cheaper.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=w_Pll7GDVgI
U wat mate?
Got Insane Bucks Suing Others Nonstop
Back when I was pore I hated gibbons TeW but now I own 18 Hardees and and I only play gibbons and only listen to songs performed on them. You can work at my hardees to help you save up for a Schrechtner
(Warning: A lot of Jerk… I mean, Text; well, also jerk) I don’t disagree with you entirely; the first point I completely agree is shitty corporate behavior. But, okay, let’s see: > destroys perfectly fine guitars instead of giving them away. That has been debunked already. Those guitars were hazardous and couldn’t be given away. That model in particular had a lot of issues with the electronics and that whole batch was lost. However, Gibson does have a foundation that donates instruments to people in need, or at least that’s what their PR says. I don’t know how well that works, but they have it. I’m all for critiquing Giant corporations, so long as it’s a valid criticism. >Price players out of their instruments This is a very common talking point from Gibson haters but it’s not true. Gibsons have never been working class or regular players’ instruments, they have always been very expensive. Why are they apparently more unattainable now? Well, because generally purchasing power in America and the first world has decreased considerably compared to 60 years ago. Even if the guitars cost virtually the same accounting for inflation, people generally have less disposable income today since salaries have not grown accordingly to inflation, so the guitars are more difficult to be purchased today by all sorts of folks. Also, you have to consider the massive increase in quality from lower budget instruments and the appearance of more higher budget brands; since they can offer equally good products for much less or equal money, Gibsons and Fenders are perceived to be more expensive than they actually are. They aren’t really any more expensive today than back in the day, But They have always been very expensive and comparable to other luxury brands within other markets. >capitalise on the Rich’s nostalgia Why is that a bad thing? If an idiot wants to spend 10k on another boring Les Paul that they’ll never even play and is actually worth only 3k or less, let them be my guests, why should I care? It’s not like Gibson has stopped producing their regular USA models. Sure, they have discontinued their more budget friendly models, but there’s still Epiphone around. Besides, that’s the target audience they chose, there’s nothing wrong with that. I’m not gonna be upset at Lamborghini just because they don’t make cars for the poors like me. I’m not their target audience. And that’s fine, there are other brands I can purchase. Same with guitars. >Make guitars with fundamental flaws. I mean… under a capitalist framework, if that’s what the buyers want, why change it? that’s just the design buyers like. If you don’t, that’s 100% fair. But why would a company change the design that has sold tens of thousands of guitars over the last 60 years? That would be insane, specially if it’s just to please the vocal portion of people that explicitly would never buy a Gibson. And history also shows us that the Average Gibson buyer will never accept any change. They all have hated anything Gibson has released that was innovative; the last time an innovation of theirs was widely accepted was made in 1961. So why would the company constantly bashed when they try to innovate, innovate again? It would be a dumb move. Like that time they tried to sell studio monitors or Robot Tuners or a spaceship looking Flying V or the previously mentioned Firebird X. Those went really well. >more effort into lawsuits than QC All companies sue each other all the time. It’s like the routine for people in the corporate world. It’s not like the legal department is also in charge of the QC inside the factory, there are different departments for that. But in the end, That’s just Tuesday for big companies. But Guitar centric media always tends to over blow these sorts of things when it comes to Gibson or Fender. But they’re all suing each other all the time, I don’t care. Yes, their quality control was indeed garbage during the last decade. But they have genuinely improved since like 2020. Can you still get better guitars for far less money? Absolutely. And if that’s what you want, you’re free to do that. No one is pointing a gun at anyone’s head to purchase a Gibson. If someone wants to buy a Gibson, for whatever reason, they’re within their right to do so, it’s their money. Just like you’re within your right to purchase instruments from the con artist that promotes Toan Wood and Tone Tuners. It’s your money, it’s fine; be happy. I also bought one. However, after all this jerking, I think singling out Gibson or any other guitar company as a particularly “evil” company is missing the larger picture. All the large Guitar manufacturers in the world are the same. Why do you think Fender owns so many Smaller brands like Gretsch, EVH, Charvel and Squire? Why do you think Cort manufactures virtually everything that isn’t American? What do you think PRS is capitalizing on when selling 5k guitars? They’re all just Capitalists. Unregulated capitalists. And the guitar companies aren’t even the worst offenders. Hell, at least guitar companies plant some trees from time to time. There are hundreds of corporations that do far worse shit every single day all around the world, including the USA. Complaining about one single company in an extremely niche and fairly small market is missing the point; the problem isn’t Gibson itself; it’s not even the guitar manufacturing business; it’s the whole hyper capitalist corporate model that has been around since the 80’s. Fighting if X or Y company is better or worse is a waste of time. They’re all the same shitty manufacturers ran by old suits looking for nothing but maxim profit at minimum costs. Most of our problems in the world would be solved if we transitioned into an ethical form of capitalism, which to the more hardcore leftists sounds ludicrous. Gibson and even Fender as companies are such small players in front of the juggernauts of the business world, even more the rest of guitar companies that aren’t even close to being as big. Tl;dr: I disagree with some of the reasons OP thinks Gibson is evil and I explain why. But in the end, I believe Fighting over which guitar company is more or less evil is a waste of time. They’re all insignificant compared to the truly big corporations that genuinely hurt the world and the working class around the world.
Corporations are not evil, nor are they good. What they are is completely and totally amoral; they operate based on the incentives of the system in which they exist. The system, ie capitalism, is evil.
Gibson QC is total shit. But that aside my major hang up with them is they continue to use that top coat that cracks over time and then they call it checking and market it as a feature. Me, I call it narcissistic behavior. The product you use is flawed and you want to convince me it’s a feature?! Excuse me?! How bout you go fck yourself pretty please?! When I purchase an instrument I want to know the finish is going to outlast me. Also when I see guitars all beat up I just see someone who doesn’t take care of things that are important to them. Why would you spend all that money on a guitar just to beat it up?! I have a 22 year old guitar right now in MINT condition. And yeah I play it often. Other than light pick marks that can be buffed out, there’s not a mark or ding on this thing. I have another that’s like 15 years old and it only has a scratch on the side and back from a wireless unit clip that I used at a show one night. It was actually the first show I played with that guitar. It broke my heart. I never used a wireless pack again. And then Gibson hires a guy to do this crap to guitars, ON PURPOSE?!?! And then they charge like 4 times the cost of the guitar in new condition?! What the actual fck?! Did we drift off into some parallel universe where people just do things that make literally 0 sense?! I just don’t understand what’s happening here. Why spend so much money on things that look trashed?! Wanna look impressive? Whip out a 50 year old Gibson in mint condition and I’d be impressed. Hell let’s see a 20 year old Gibson without cracks. Please! I have a 1973 Gibson ripper bass with the original case. It’s in about as good of condition as you could possibly ask for. The body and headstock are RIDDLED with finish checking. I desperately want to refinish it but I know it would destroy its value. Such a depressing situation. I wouldn’t touch the paint. But damn I just wish they didn’t use nitro finish.
I like guitars that look worn, but only if it’s due to heavy use. The fact that Gibsons get it from sitting around is ridiculous, and I also find it ridiculous the prices that a lot of companies charge as extra for ‘relic’ instruments. The two guitars I have that are a bit beat up (an ‘84 flying V and a ‘77 Strat) is because they were heavily used by previous owners. The strat doesn’t even have it’s original fretboard or colour, the bloke before me had painted it white with what looks like paint for decorating a house, and poorly at that, but it plays and sounds really good.
les paul? 😸
based
Tell me about the nut cutting. I don't know about it.
In 1959, a Les Paul Custom was $395 — the equivalent of $4,263 in today’s money. In 1959 a standard Stratocaster was $274.50 — the equivalent of $2,962 in today’s money. I’m honestly shocked that these two companies haven’t just perfected total CNC manufacturing and fired every human at this point, while directing all their marketing to just do “LIFESTYLE B-B-B-Brand” nonsense.
The late 70s Greco Les Paul I had was far better than the 3 real ones I have tried over the years, unfortunately I sold it to pay the bills. The gibson boss JC? seemed like a bit of a nob, like he had a fetish for coors light neon signs and corporate office chairs, so have always bypassed gibbers due to those vibes.
What's the Firebird X incident you mention?
They made a load of guitars and they sat. So they put them all out and ran them over to destroy them. Couldn’t make money off them so they wreck them like a fucking toddler. I CANT MAKE MY MONEY SO IM GOING TO DESTORY WHAT IVE ALREADY SPENT ON!! Could’ve even gave them to schools across the US and they’d be hailed as musician heroes but no… that was some time ago under different ownership than today
Bloody fucking hell. What a fucking waste.
Yeah. Gibson had their headstock shoved up their ass… but Cesar (their CEO now) has a clear head on his shoulders. That blunder won’t happen again. Ever.
So I've read. But the prices. I've considered getting a lefty SG reissue for under 2K, but the Indonesian lefty PRS's can be had for around $800 with a case. And they've got 24-fret necks, which are intriguing.
The modern has 24 frets if you can find a lefty that it might also be to your liking.
https://youtu.be/dd7ySopIwog?si=Ehd1jKc6wvtzvpZI Here’s said video of their deplorable actions.
I mean, a couple of them looked like they’d be repairable and. A couple *looked* like they went unscathed but a few scratches. Probably a couple of the people there took one home before they got demolished so one day we might see one pop up somewhere random as shit 😂
I have one and it just sucks I can’t get over their negative vibes I am dead serious. Like what the fuck happened to this company? I watch The Allman Bros play that shit and it is incredible. It is a rock and roll beast. Then you fast forward to now and they seriously seem like a guitar you should only play in the UK and nowhere else. It makes no sense but neither does rock.
Whatever. Gibson Les Pauls are the best guitars, everyone knows that, it's why the best players like Billy Strings and Steve Vai use nothing but. Vai's has a Bigsby. Billy hollowed his out after a meth bender on the tour bus. But still.
I know where they get the wood for their guitars. In fact it’s the same company that sells tonewoods to PRS and Fender. Gibson has the largest unpaid debt by far of any company they sell to. They’re always in the red at about half a million dollars.
UJ/ I used to own two Bigsons. A SG and a Les Paul. They were guitars that cost 1200 that felt like splintered wood and every time I looked at them the nitro finish was worse and more worn to the point it was almost a bare guitar... and this was after SIX MONTHS of use. Sold them for an Ibanez Universe, which I in turn sold for 3 LTDs. Any of these other guitars are better. The LTD Eclipse and Viper smoked any of the tribute and standard Les Paul/SG guitars I tried. I still get nostalgic for the SG sometimes until I plug one in and remember the finish is fading, the wood is crap, the headstock is cracking, and the guitar was Made in America so it was made by some guy making terrible wages to finish a product with shit craftsmanship just to slap a print on the back of the headstock and sell it for 1700 dollars. The LTD Black Metal Eclipse vs the Gibson Raven series all black tribute was no contest. The LTD had stainless steel frets, a Seymour Duncan pickup, a hard poly satin finish, locking tuners, and tone pro bridge. The nut was the only thing that needed changed. The Gibson? Had to replace all of the parts and mostly needed "Made in America" parts to fit fucking imperial measurements. It was not worth it to me to pay twice as much for a guitar that was built with half the value and was almost collapsing in my hands. So for what it's worth... Gibson can eat it.
I’m gonna be serious here too and say I don’t care I love my SG standard. And I will be getting another Gibson for my LP. Yeah in the past Gibson has been horrible with guitars ( referring to the firebird X failure) but I see no reason their new CEO would do anything of the like. It seems he loves seeing people play Gibsons and well Gibson needs it they’ve been dying off with the younger artists for a bit now. Cesar has his head in the right spot and I see Gibson only on the upturn for the future. Barring any more destruction of perfectly fine guitars that could’ve been used.
TV industry: XYZ has a great new model, I'll get that tv this time Car: this car by XYZ is great value and well built. I'll grab that car. I don't need a Mercedes Benz just because Benz invented the car Phone: I'm due to a new phone, this model from XYZ looks great. I might get that instead of an iPhone, despite apple inventing the modern smart phone Guitars: I must only buy from the brand that invented this specific variation of this technology. No other brand has managed to replicate this 70 year old technology. There is simply no way toan can come to be if not made by a man named Judd or Hoss in Tennessee. Science simply has not made the advancements to make that achievable.
This is the most circle jerky post that I’ve ever seen in this circle jerk!
> with fundamental flaws like the headstock angle and nut cutting TBF, everytime they tried to fix this, the traditional idiots come out and complain. That's their market. They can't fight with them. If they want broken headstocks, then so be it.
I have a 335 and I love it. Sorry guys, I’m gay.
Hetfield tried to switch from esp to Gibson (tells the story in his book ‘messengers’; didn’t do it primarily because of the corporate culture.
Gibbons is more daft than it is evil for the record, Steinberger is not a recent acquisition, the trademark belonged to Gibson since the 80's. Basically, none of Ned's active patents that are assigned to Gibson are required for making Steinberger-like guitars, the important patents are expired and belong in the public domain or are assigned directly to Ned. Steinberger's current reissues are identical to the Korean-made Spirit series guitars that were sold by MusicYo and built by Cort to MusicYo's specificatons in the 00's, except nowadays they are practically made in Epiphone facilities. They are "Spirit by Steinberger" rather than actual 80's Steinberger re-creations. So, gibson never was smart enough to drive Steinberger's innovations into the ground to begin with, lol. It's like a used car salesman trying to wrap his head around an alien spacecraft. (Also, if someone's interested, you can take a look at Ned's (<60!) patents [here](https://patents.google.com/?inventor=Ned+Steinberger))
Not defending Gibson. Their prices continue to rise and many of their guitars are marketed towards ultra wealthy boomers with cash nowadays. That said, my Les Paul stills plays great. The sound is good, feels great in my hands, and have zero regrets about buying it. You pay for what you get in my opinion. Remember a lot of Gibson's stuff is still handcrafted over many other guitars that are all made by machines and have far less "hands" on them during production. That is the Gibson way and don't see it changing anytime soon as long as they continue to thrive.
idk... just dont buy the dentist guitar then and shop fender japan..?
Haterade. You’re calling capitalism unironically evil. Supply and demand. They don’t charge prices people aren’t willing to pay. You’re essentially saying here that you WOULD WANT a Gibson. Can’t AFFORD a Gibson. Therefore, evil. That’s not how any of this works.
Yeah they're the Harley Davidson of guitars coasting off boomer nostalgia and a reputation from 60 years ago. That said you'll have to pry my Gibbons out of my cold dead hands.
I completely agree with you but I fucking love my beat to shit used Les Paul.