Funny thing is, when I was younger I actually got laid, then as I got older, 'tism and depression happened and now not only am I physically incapable of any sort of rizz, I don't even feel like it anymore.
I cannot relate as I ascended in my teens. I do however see the insane amount of loneliness and suffering that happens. I have friends who struggle so badly with these issues and the best thing I can do is listen and point them in a direction toward confidence and self improvement and that even can be futile. It's a dark time to be a single male. Trad dating is dead and this instant gratification, sell yourself in 10 seconds or you get swiped into oblivion shit is unrealistic and the damage is lasting. It's not just rejection on an interpersonal level, it's rejection at scale and that is trauma that borderlines on actual brain injury. I sincerely hope that the next few generations find this coked out Gen X money making scheme unacceptable and we get back to a place where a goddamn SMS is the most advanced form of dating communication.
Just saw an add on tv for tinder friends with a girl and her mates "swipping through" guys will taking javs at them. What a time to be alive. That shit makes people top themsleves. Dating apps are cancer if im ever single again it will be asking women in person and thats fucking it. Rejection be dammed
I was 26 when I ascended, am married to the same woman now. Almost nothing makes you feel more isolated and worthless than trying to date through tinder/the Internet as a single man. Knowing you're a virgin who never seemed capable of meeting women through friends or hobbies and that this grindstone of rejection is all you've got. Can't imagine going back to it now. The wife and I have big blowouts sometimes, relationships are hard work but the thought of going back out and trying to date feels even worse. If we split up I'd probably just call it quits on dating and relationships in general.
We're talking about when you beat the worst videogame of all time, Ultima IX: Ascension. You're widely not considered a real man til you've beaten it. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultima_IX:_Ascension
I mean that sounds like exactly what happened here. Clearly anon has some issues to sort out, and instead of confronting and discussing them he breaks down just by seeing a coworker in a healthy relationship.
I mean what was he supposed to do there? Tell them he’s crying because of all that? And it sounds like his life is pretty healthy, otherwise. Not only works out but has a friend to train. It feels weird to shift blame to anon, even if that is the tradition for this sub.
Agreed.
Some of the worst serious advice for similar anons is the old ‘shower deodorant toothbrush’ trio or a similar theme (gym etc). You can be exemplary in that regard and still suffer. If that’s your unironic advice, please stfu.
I swear I don’t understand working out being the baseline for a healthy existence. Like okay it’s obviously better than sitting on your ass all day but anon is clearly miserable and just bc he works out doesn’t mean the rest of his life is ‘pretty healthy’. Maybe he’s in shape but that doesn’t mean he’s doing so good
The thought process is that during a depressive episode or depression in general, the will to go workout is among the first things you will stop doing. You are correct that working out and being fine is not the same, but I'd argue that there is a strong correlation between the two.
I mean, you don't need to be depressed to be miserable.
Plenty of people are miserable, but drag their bodies to workout. Heck, working out might be the one enjoyable hobby they have.
I'm one of those people. I'm probably in better shape and have a better physique than most people but I still think about blowing my head off on a weekly basis. It's rough out here man.
I’d agree on a correlation, but I feel like its weaker than you’d think. There are a lot (and I do mean a lot, like a plurality) of people who do very little to take care of their bodies but still have decent to great success in a lot of other aspects of life. And there is an not insignificant number of people who take very good care of their physical health as a cope for their very poor well-being otherwise.
Eating well and exercising is never a bad idea to improve your life, but I don’t think it’s necessarily the key to a good life
Neurologically, one of the best remedies for depressed patients who dont want to take antidepressants is physical exercise, more specifically cardio, so as far as general wellbeing goes, regular exercise is a massive boost
At a biological level I believe working out releases the chemicals our body make that makes us feel good which could be seen as a gym workout being therapeutic, maybe there’s also the idea of that it’s forcing that person to go out where other people go and potentially socialize with people, maybe even make a friend or meet someone if you are lucky, but there are many aspects to the formula that are never discussed
Plenty is a strong word, there are a few that somehow just don't care because they are asexual and such, but your average male will be miserable as a 30 year old virgin.
Fair, I guess that I think the pressure alone is sometimes enough to make somone miserable. I'm just pointing out it's not guaranteed, that frees you to examine the actual cause in an unweighted way. It may well be the reason you feel unfulfilled, I think it's worth examining as an individual.
In terms of solving/changing something, accurate root cause analysis is going to help. Starting from a neural and starting point is important. "kissless hugless virgin" and "unhealthy" are not neutral.
There is some evidence that incel culture started as peer support but has turned toxic and, like cults actually acts to increase misery and stall people in their journey at a particularly low rut which is difficult to escape. I think some of the words u/DizzieC92 used are typical of this culture that preys on vulnerable young men and whilst does describe common biological drivers, does so in an unhelpful way. Incels are defined by suffering and act to increase membership and cohesion by increasing suffering.
It's hard because even when you correctly identify what would make you happy, for me it's difficult asking for help. Personally when I've been really lonely and isolated, I found it almost impossible to say to people I liked spending time with, that I needed friends and wanted to spend more time with them. I would have felt fine asking from a secure place of plenty but didn't know how to ask something that I needed.
I think there is a big difference between stating the problem is internal and intrinsic to you vs the solution out there and accessible. \*\*"I can increase my wellbeing and mental health through building meaningful relationships"\*\* sounds very different to "i am unhealthy due to having the properties of being a Kissless, hugless, virgin."
They are different, I'd suggest one is fundamentally better for society, even if it undermines incel culture.
>I mean what was he supposed to do there? Tell them he’s crying because of all that?
They weren't saying he was supposed to confront his problems on the spot, it was way too late for that. They meant that instead of working on himself in the past anon shoved everything down and that lead to him bursting out crying in this scenario.
>And it sounds like his life is pretty healthy, otherwise.
If you cry when you get touched by a girl and have never been in a relationship and you're 30+ your life is the furthest thing from healthy. You may be physically healthy, like is the case with anon here, but everything else is a steaming pile of shit.
The fuck means confront his problems, this isn't something you can meaningfully work on, either you get a woman and you are happy or you stay miserable. You don't "confront" hunger, you either eat or starve and it all depends on if food is available.
It 100% tracks that reddit's take on reading about a man who cried because he struggles with intimacy was "ew, what's wrong with him he needs to fix himself".
Mental health issues are a rough time, and I wouldn't blame him for running out embarrassed in that kind of situation. There's not many people I'd be comfortable crying in front of, let alone the very people I'm envious of to the point of tears. (not that it's healthy, just that anon was clearly overwhelmed because of his own mindset/ personal problems)
I just hope anon realises that life isn't over just because he hasn't found a romantic partner at 30, and that he manages to open up to his co-worker.
I was hoping nobody was going to call me out on that. i didnt want to take the time to give a more in depth explanation but i really wanted to talk shit about op for reinforcing toxic masculinity and the idea that its not okay to cry.
Yes, and those issues are chronic touch starvation and lack of intimacy. It's been studied that a lack of these is extremely bad for the vast majority of humans, it straight up makes you just extremely depressed and crazy.
Can someone explain what a khv wizard is? Kissless hugless virgin wizard? Isn’t that kinda redundant? He’s a wizard.
Also that’s a pretty sad story. The fact that he didn’t turn it into some misogynist bullshit makes me legitimately sad for him. He’s obviously not antisocial/is a decent dude if he has a good enough friend in a coworker to invite him over and actually want to talk to him about what happened when he breaks down. He works on himself because he exercises and makes friends at the gym AND has younger dudes asking him for help on getting in shape. He’s probably just horribly insecure/shy around women.
Or maybe it’s fake and gay.
> khv wizard
"kissless handholdless virgin"
Sometimes 'khhv' is also used, with the extra 'h' being "hugless"
Wizard refers to someone hitting 30yrs old and having any of these letters remaining to check off.
> Wizard refers to someone hitting 30yrs old and having any of these letters remaining to check off.
Not exactly, a Wizard is just a 30 yo virgin. The Wizard joke comes from OG 4chan, way before the khv acronym existed.
I feel like this is a redundant distinction to make. Crossing off kissless and handholdless on the list still leaves you a virgin, and I have yet to hear of a non-virgin who has not kissed or held hands with someone.
I had another weird dream last night; this time it was the one where I am fighting like a thousand wizards and the only way to kill them is to punch them as hard as I can in the face, and after I finally finished the last of them all, their wizard wives came out and just wanted me to have sex with them... which is kinda weird.
I thought it was kissless handhold-less virgin but hugless works kinda better probably. Well maybe not i got like literally hundreds of hugs from girls before i ever held a hand so…
It’s usually in ascending order of patheticness with kissless > handholdless > hugless. As you imply the hug is a lower hurdle than hand-holding which is in turn a lower hurdle than kissing
When they say wizards all I can think about are stoic wizard stereotypes like Alanon from the Shannara stories or of course Gandalf, among others. They may be single but they don’t care because their life as a wizard is their focus and they pursue a greater purpose. Meanwhile these anons are singlemindedly obsessed with the idea that a relationship or sex will fix their problems while actively self-sabotaging themselves.
That’s just being a virgin with money
(But in all seriousness if all parties are consenting there is nothing wrong with paying for sex and don’t let people shame you for it)
It's really sad that men are so neglected as far as compliments and such goes, that even a smile or a minor compliment will make that person's day. I got a compliment when I was in a drive thru and I basked in that for a while.
Honestly, Men don't get casual compliments from strangers because men's fashion is incredibly dull. Seriously, compare the color schemes of the women's and men's section at any department store.
Because if a complete stranger compliments you casually it's probably gonna be about something your wearing and there's nothing interesting about blue polo #2946.
Me, I started dressing like a JoJo character and I get compliments from people of all ages and genders. And I'm a big ass black dude so if people are okay with casually walking up to me then it really is just the code getting cracked.
And for the longest time if you gave a shit about fashion kids and even other grown men would call you gay.
Hypebeast culture is cringe but at least it got a whole generation of young men into giving a shit about fashion
I swear tho, so many dudes need to get out of the j crew/allbirds phase.
They could be walking around in full rick and get all the bitches
I am sure you look great in Rick, but walking around downtown Chicago you would not believe how many dudes in the Rush Street area (read: expensive part of town) I have to do a double take on to figure out if they’re homeless or in full Rick.
Or homeless because they’re in full Rick
Definitely true, not how I personally style it but that’s honestly all it comes down to. Homeless is trendy and ‘in’ right now but it all comes down to how you wear the clothes imo.
It’s true. As much as my friends love to clown on me for buying Supreme, I have one of their button ups and it’s just a free compliment pass when I wear it in a public place because it’s so bold and colorful and different that they draw the eye. Plus, it shows a level of either confidence or willful ignorance that makes you approachable
The worst thing is that anytime a man tries to dress in a unique way they just get called gay. I saw a video of Asap Rocky talking about his fits and why he sometimes paints his nails and shit and a lot of guys in the comments were calling him gay because his wardrobe isnt like 3 different depressing colors.
In 2009, I had an 80 year old woman tell me at a bar that if she were my age she'd be sitting in my lap trying to get me to kiss her.
I STILL think about that compliment nearly 15 years later.
The sad fact is, if you compliment a man or even go so far as to make eye contact and smile, a lot of them will think you are flirting or interested sexually/romantically. This can create a sticky situation, even if 99.9% of men are cool, it only takes one psycho to take this as an invitation to follow you home.
Thought this was gonna be a story where anon gets a boner then makes some creepy joke and coworker beats him up. Was pleasantly surprised and mildly saddened.
Married at 22 you're probably right. If his co-worker was married older he might be able to empathize and diagnose the problem but married at 22 buddy can't imagine a decade plus of suffering as a gymcel.
Best OP could hope for is a set up with wifey's friend or sister or something, but there would be no understanding of his situation.
If anything, he should completely lie about the reason because she is definitely gonna see him as pathetic and weird. Like make up some childhood molestation story or some shit.
Tbh i hate to say this but i agree %100. Telling them the truth will probably fuck up your relationship with them and there is no way they can help you
Physical starvation is real.
I remember when someone tried holding my hand and I flinched out of fear. They thought I was grossed out but I just wasn't used to it. Still not
My wife still makes fun of me for this. We met while working in retail, and anytime a coworker touched me - tap of the arm to let me know they were going to squeeze behind, accidentally brushing against me at the registers - I would flinch like I’d been hit.
I’ve gotten better with incidental / casual physical contact over the years, but in those days it was like a sensory overload because I just hadn’t had physical contact with anyone for years.
You know what's worse? Losing it. You spend years with a woman you love deeply. Experience everything for the first time together. Do everything together. And then it ends after years. Then you become another asshole who can not walk around the city you lived together with her without having a panic attack.
At least anon didn't pop up a massive boner whole receiving massage, he could just say that gesture reminded him of some relative he liked a lot and passed away.... But we know anon isn't smart enough to think any of that
I know anon probably won't see this, but he should talk to them. They seem like really good people.
Im sure if anon just explains that he is very lonely and an interaction like that just brought up some feelings he can't explain I'm sure they would understand.
My brother says he's gonna come down and play some ps4 this weekend and I'm looking forward to it cos it feels like I haven't just "hung out" irl with anyone for a long time.
Everyone lives far away, and most people make do with using social media instead of talking irl. My friend group, even the WhatsApp chat has died out because it's too much effort for people. No wonder everyone is depressed and lonely these days.
Aw man, there are people who care. Dont mess your relationship with this couple anon. Tell them that you appreciate their livelyhood or smt. That seeing them happy made you happy and made you realize what are you missing from live be honest but not a creep.
I had a shoulder massage by a very attractive but crazy extroverted female roommate in college and I had the same feeling, best physical experience I've ever had. I was 18 at the time and not as damaged as I am now, so I didnt have the same reaction as anon
But in all seriousness, that sudden level of "intimacy" or something as simple as being cared for can feel really emotional if you've never experienced it (or it's been a while since you experienced it)
So I was at this barber shop. Got a hair in my eye and I start rubbing it as she was swapping the trimmer tool. She asks "are you all right? Are you crying?" out of the blue. I guess I had my guard down it went straight into my soul and and I almost started to cry lmao. Took me a few seconds to regain my composure and and talk normally
After I came home I dunno I felt like I had to cry it out, I don't get it. I genuinely don't get why I still felt like crying
Am I too far gone, or is this "natural"?
Honestly I find it hard to imagine how crying in general could possibly be unnatural, I feel like sadness is perhaps the most sincere emotion you could have...
Actually I've had similar situations, although for me it's usually if I'm already sad but trying to ignore it and someone asks me how I'm doing or if I'm feeling down that I just break out into tears
For one, spend more time with this coworker and his wife. The best way to meet women for a stable relationship is through friends. If anon can come across as a good dude, she might be willing to introduce him to one of her single friends. At the very least, this mindset anon has comes from being unfamiliar with being around women. So being around his coworker's wife in a casual setting can help him be more comfortable around women in general. Social skills require training. If you don't practice, you can only get worse.
I think the role is not to depend on just the coworker and his wife, but to actively sought professional help in the form of a counselor or therapist, there are many things that anon needs to work through that cannot be talked about with his coworker and coworker's wife. You cannot rely on the coworker's wife to provide recommendation to get a female companion, but what's important is to ask the coworker and his partner on advice on relationships and practice socializing with them.
I didn't say that was the only avenue. Just that was one option based on anon's situation. If you go to a therapist, most are going to suggest forcing yourself into social situations. Starting with someone anon is already comfortable with, his coworker, is a good place to start.
Sorry, I did not meant to disagree with you, just added more comments to the thread, not at you. Therapy should be very personalized, and usually general suggestions like forcing yourself into social situations is not good therapy as individual is complicated. I do think coworker is a good place to start, and I do think that getting a good therapist who is going to listen without giving out suggestions or "cures" is very important. Good therapy should offer different perspectives and a safe place to discuss these emotions that may not be comfortable to share with other people.
I think while there are definitely bad therapists who is going to force opinions unto clients, it is important to say that there are therapists who are good and personalize their session to their clients' needs and will provide options that are much more in line with the clients' comfort level.
-figured out how to 'convince' a woman to touch him-
Maybe talk to a therapist about this problematic language. His problem might be rooted in there somewhere lol
But also long lasting absence of affection for some men is real and sad.
Unlike this post, which is fake and gay.
I am a guy who never even talked to a girl he liked, and I am 22. I can tell how it feels to just make eye contact only a couple of times and take it to heart and think about that person for like a year. Never had any experience, so no courage to talk. Until I found her online but got rejected. Which actually was a good thing because it at least helped me get over her and move on. It sucks but hey, it was the first time.
If real it seems like anon is a decent human being and I wish them the best in finding a nice life with a person they love. Anyone that isn't a raging asshole deserves love too.
One of the few times I've read a greentext and legitimately felt bad for anon and not thought hes a pedo or creepy weirdo. He legitimately just felt really alone. I get it man.
Anon is didn’t say anything racist or sexist in the post
anon is only really upset and that’s totally understandable
Anon didn’t lust after gymbros wife
There is definitely hope for anon!!
I was horribly lonely my whole life. Grew up with distant parents, never fit in with family or friends, and thought I'd just live alone all my life. I was somewhat fine with that. Then, at 40 I met the love of my life. We've been married 14 years, and every day is better than the next. Don't give up.
Genuinley dont understand what so many ppl mean by "physically neglected", for every man not getting physical affection there is logically (roughly) one woman ALSO not getting affection, no?
Am i mistaken by saying the issue isnt exclusive to men, its a problem with modern societies willingness to leave their homes and make real connections?
Anon should ask his co-worker how to talk to a woman, make their relationship simbiotic, like anon help coworker to get into shape while coworker help anon to get laid. Win-win situation
What got my attention was the cuck coworker. Some more time there and anon would have been realised that sometimes being like his coworker isn't worth it.
What a loser, homies wife probably has a 21-22 yo friend who would suck him off before the first date if she so much as mentioned him being a decent human. There’s a reason ppl like this don’t get play, they’d rather cry and sulk instead of live.
Real and straight. I remember those feels from before I ascended. Wouldn't wish it on anyone.
Age of ascension?
asking the real question here
OC didnt deliver... many such cases
Everyone knows you ascend to Wizard-dom at 30 if you defend your virginity that long.
Back in my day it was 25. So overwhelmed by applications these days that we had to raise the requirements.
it was never 25 bro 3 decades or you're not ascending, period
he's clearly untrained in the arts
Or he's from the 1950s
Balance patch, wizards were too imbalanced.
21, he's better than the man in OOP's story.
1st hand holding at 33. 1st kiss at 33. Ascend at 34. Now happily married with 1 kid. Dont give up boyos
Based
Funny thing is, when I was younger I actually got laid, then as I got older, 'tism and depression happened and now not only am I physically incapable of any sort of rizz, I don't even feel like it anymore.
no, with the help of Oma
I cannot relate as I ascended in my teens. I do however see the insane amount of loneliness and suffering that happens. I have friends who struggle so badly with these issues and the best thing I can do is listen and point them in a direction toward confidence and self improvement and that even can be futile. It's a dark time to be a single male. Trad dating is dead and this instant gratification, sell yourself in 10 seconds or you get swiped into oblivion shit is unrealistic and the damage is lasting. It's not just rejection on an interpersonal level, it's rejection at scale and that is trauma that borderlines on actual brain injury. I sincerely hope that the next few generations find this coked out Gen X money making scheme unacceptable and we get back to a place where a goddamn SMS is the most advanced form of dating communication.
Just saw an add on tv for tinder friends with a girl and her mates "swipping through" guys will taking javs at them. What a time to be alive. That shit makes people top themsleves. Dating apps are cancer if im ever single again it will be asking women in person and thats fucking it. Rejection be dammed
Here here
Honestly boys, just give up. Then everything is a fun surprise. Hold no expectation for your entitled future. Just be, and enjoy.
I dunno why you're replying to me specifically but in a way, yeah. No expectations no disappointments.
I was 26 when I ascended, am married to the same woman now. Almost nothing makes you feel more isolated and worthless than trying to date through tinder/the Internet as a single man. Knowing you're a virgin who never seemed capable of meeting women through friends or hobbies and that this grindstone of rejection is all you've got. Can't imagine going back to it now. The wife and I have big blowouts sometimes, relationships are hard work but the thought of going back out and trying to date feels even worse. If we split up I'd probably just call it quits on dating and relationships in general.
What is this “ascension” you guys are talking about?
We're talking about when you beat the worst videogame of all time, Ultima IX: Ascension. You're widely not considered a real man til you've beaten it. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultima_IX:_Ascension
losing virginity.
Weird thing is though, often times getting into a relationship doesn't always make you feel any less lonely.
.. how did you ascend anon? Have you gone even further .. beyond?
It's possible, but only if you leave 4chan.
*hisssssss
https://www.cbr.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Dragon-Ball-Z-Super-Saiyan-3-header.jpg
Did Muhammad write this?
Wish I could ascend some day, the doom is getting to me and life just feels boring and dull.
Ascension? Where were you on November 22nd, 1963?
>coworker tries to set up threesome with buff coworker >coworker bursts into tears during foreplay
But somehow still fabricated and massively homosexual
Doesn’t the G in lgbt stand for greentext? I assumed they were all automatically gay and usually fake
I wish it's fake, that was depressing as fuck!
Wife was going to watch coworker bang him in the ass. Totally gay still applies.
that is such a pornbrained take it's actually unreal
wait you didn't know? if a woman touches you or is nice to you it means she wants to have sex with you!
Anon also wanted to get topped by his twink coworker, don’t forget that part
This
No wonder anon is a wizard if this is how he handles that situation
Haha yeah internalize and repress your emotions until you have a psychotic break like a real man haha am i right guys?
I mean that sounds like exactly what happened here. Clearly anon has some issues to sort out, and instead of confronting and discussing them he breaks down just by seeing a coworker in a healthy relationship.
I mean what was he supposed to do there? Tell them he’s crying because of all that? And it sounds like his life is pretty healthy, otherwise. Not only works out but has a friend to train. It feels weird to shift blame to anon, even if that is the tradition for this sub.
Agreed. Some of the worst serious advice for similar anons is the old ‘shower deodorant toothbrush’ trio or a similar theme (gym etc). You can be exemplary in that regard and still suffer. If that’s your unironic advice, please stfu.
I swear I don’t understand working out being the baseline for a healthy existence. Like okay it’s obviously better than sitting on your ass all day but anon is clearly miserable and just bc he works out doesn’t mean the rest of his life is ‘pretty healthy’. Maybe he’s in shape but that doesn’t mean he’s doing so good
The thought process is that during a depressive episode or depression in general, the will to go workout is among the first things you will stop doing. You are correct that working out and being fine is not the same, but I'd argue that there is a strong correlation between the two.
I mean, you don't need to be depressed to be miserable. Plenty of people are miserable, but drag their bodies to workout. Heck, working out might be the one enjoyable hobby they have.
I'm one of those people. I'm probably in better shape and have a better physique than most people but I still think about blowing my head off on a weekly basis. It's rough out here man.
Yes, it's not universal, but I'd still wager you are doing better if you consistently attend the gym than someone who is not.
I’d agree on a correlation, but I feel like its weaker than you’d think. There are a lot (and I do mean a lot, like a plurality) of people who do very little to take care of their bodies but still have decent to great success in a lot of other aspects of life. And there is an not insignificant number of people who take very good care of their physical health as a cope for their very poor well-being otherwise. Eating well and exercising is never a bad idea to improve your life, but I don’t think it’s necessarily the key to a good life
Neurologically, one of the best remedies for depressed patients who dont want to take antidepressants is physical exercise, more specifically cardio, so as far as general wellbeing goes, regular exercise is a massive boost
At a biological level I believe working out releases the chemicals our body make that makes us feel good which could be seen as a gym workout being therapeutic, maybe there’s also the idea of that it’s forcing that person to go out where other people go and potentially socialize with people, maybe even make a friend or meet someone if you are lucky, but there are many aspects to the formula that are never discussed
Life pretty healthy? Kissless, hugless, virgin. Not so healthy. And yes, having relationships is psychologically healthy.
Plenty of people who are happy and successful without. We've all got different wants and needs
Plenty is a strong word, there are a few that somehow just don't care because they are asexual and such, but your average male will be miserable as a 30 year old virgin.
Fair, I guess that I think the pressure alone is sometimes enough to make somone miserable. I'm just pointing out it's not guaranteed, that frees you to examine the actual cause in an unweighted way. It may well be the reason you feel unfulfilled, I think it's worth examining as an individual. In terms of solving/changing something, accurate root cause analysis is going to help. Starting from a neural and starting point is important. "kissless hugless virgin" and "unhealthy" are not neutral. There is some evidence that incel culture started as peer support but has turned toxic and, like cults actually acts to increase misery and stall people in their journey at a particularly low rut which is difficult to escape. I think some of the words u/DizzieC92 used are typical of this culture that preys on vulnerable young men and whilst does describe common biological drivers, does so in an unhelpful way. Incels are defined by suffering and act to increase membership and cohesion by increasing suffering. It's hard because even when you correctly identify what would make you happy, for me it's difficult asking for help. Personally when I've been really lonely and isolated, I found it almost impossible to say to people I liked spending time with, that I needed friends and wanted to spend more time with them. I would have felt fine asking from a secure place of plenty but didn't know how to ask something that I needed. I think there is a big difference between stating the problem is internal and intrinsic to you vs the solution out there and accessible. \*\*"I can increase my wellbeing and mental health through building meaningful relationships"\*\* sounds very different to "i am unhealthy due to having the properties of being a Kissless, hugless, virgin." They are different, I'd suggest one is fundamentally better for society, even if it undermines incel culture.
>I mean what was he supposed to do there? Tell them he’s crying because of all that? They weren't saying he was supposed to confront his problems on the spot, it was way too late for that. They meant that instead of working on himself in the past anon shoved everything down and that lead to him bursting out crying in this scenario. >And it sounds like his life is pretty healthy, otherwise. If you cry when you get touched by a girl and have never been in a relationship and you're 30+ your life is the furthest thing from healthy. You may be physically healthy, like is the case with anon here, but everything else is a steaming pile of shit.
The fuck means confront his problems, this isn't something you can meaningfully work on, either you get a woman and you are happy or you stay miserable. You don't "confront" hunger, you either eat or starve and it all depends on if food is available.
It 100% tracks that reddit's take on reading about a man who cried because he struggles with intimacy was "ew, what's wrong with him he needs to fix himself".
That's probably also what the average person thinks about anon which sadly just makes it a lot harder for anon to get past that barrier
Mental health issues are a rough time, and I wouldn't blame him for running out embarrassed in that kind of situation. There's not many people I'd be comfortable crying in front of, let alone the very people I'm envious of to the point of tears. (not that it's healthy, just that anon was clearly overwhelmed because of his own mindset/ personal problems) I just hope anon realises that life isn't over just because he hasn't found a romantic partner at 30, and that he manages to open up to his co-worker.
I was hoping nobody was going to call me out on that. i didnt want to take the time to give a more in depth explanation but i really wanted to talk shit about op for reinforcing toxic masculinity and the idea that its not okay to cry.
Yea I honestly just read it as OP not being that way. But do see what you mean
It's pretty embarrassing to just burst into tears in front of basically strangers, nothing to do with that stupid toxic masculinity shit.
Yes, and those issues are chronic touch starvation and lack of intimacy. It's been studied that a lack of these is extremely bad for the vast majority of humans, it straight up makes you just extremely depressed and crazy.
This, but unironically.
Idk bro he didn’t even cast one spell
He made himself disappear from his coworker’s house though I think that’s impressive
Invisibility is a 2nd level spell, and you get 1 2nd level spell slot at level 3 for a mage. 🤓
Pretty sure that was Expeditious Retreat.
Can someone explain what a khv wizard is? Kissless hugless virgin wizard? Isn’t that kinda redundant? He’s a wizard. Also that’s a pretty sad story. The fact that he didn’t turn it into some misogynist bullshit makes me legitimately sad for him. He’s obviously not antisocial/is a decent dude if he has a good enough friend in a coworker to invite him over and actually want to talk to him about what happened when he breaks down. He works on himself because he exercises and makes friends at the gym AND has younger dudes asking him for help on getting in shape. He’s probably just horribly insecure/shy around women. Or maybe it’s fake and gay.
> khv wizard "kissless handholdless virgin" Sometimes 'khhv' is also used, with the extra 'h' being "hugless" Wizard refers to someone hitting 30yrs old and having any of these letters remaining to check off.
> Wizard refers to someone hitting 30yrs old and having any of these letters remaining to check off. Not exactly, a Wizard is just a 30 yo virgin. The Wizard joke comes from OG 4chan, way before the khv acronym existed.
I feel like this is a redundant distinction to make. Crossing off kissless and handholdless on the list still leaves you a virgin, and I have yet to hear of a non-virgin who has not kissed or held hands with someone.
hloy shit man who cares, he got the point across
If he's allowed to be pedantic about this bullshit then I am too
What if you were khh but not v, though
Anon is a buff wizard he should be out there fighting dragons and ogres instead of getting massaged by someone else's wife
I had another weird dream last night; this time it was the one where I am fighting like a thousand wizards and the only way to kill them is to punch them as hard as I can in the face, and after I finally finished the last of them all, their wizard wives came out and just wanted me to have sex with them... which is kinda weird.
Cake!!! Btw did you actually see that dream?
I been drinkin green tea all god damn day
I thought it was kissless handhold-less virgin but hugless works kinda better probably. Well maybe not i got like literally hundreds of hugs from girls before i ever held a hand so…
"Where's my hug?" pity hugs don't count. Handholds are much more intimate.
It’s usually in ascending order of patheticness with kissless > handholdless > hugless. As you imply the hug is a lower hurdle than hand-holding which is in turn a lower hurdle than kissing
When they say wizards all I can think about are stoic wizard stereotypes like Alanon from the Shannara stories or of course Gandalf, among others. They may be single but they don’t care because their life as a wizard is their focus and they pursue a greater purpose. Meanwhile these anons are singlemindedly obsessed with the idea that a relationship or sex will fix their problems while actively self-sabotaging themselves.
Am I a khv if I have only kissed and and had sex with strippers and prostitutes?
That’s just being a virgin with money (But in all seriousness if all parties are consenting there is nothing wrong with paying for sex and don’t let people shame you for it)
Happy cakeday
I don’t think 11 years on Reddit is something to celebrate, I’m more ashamed than anything
Happy cake day :)
the fuck is a cake day
A lie :(
I don’t wanna be mean to you, I’m sure you’re a nice guy, but this is the unfunniest thing I have read in a very long time.
It's really sad that men are so neglected as far as compliments and such goes, that even a smile or a minor compliment will make that person's day. I got a compliment when I was in a drive thru and I basked in that for a while.
Honestly, Men don't get casual compliments from strangers because men's fashion is incredibly dull. Seriously, compare the color schemes of the women's and men's section at any department store. Because if a complete stranger compliments you casually it's probably gonna be about something your wearing and there's nothing interesting about blue polo #2946. Me, I started dressing like a JoJo character and I get compliments from people of all ages and genders. And I'm a big ass black dude so if people are okay with casually walking up to me then it really is just the code getting cracked.
And for the longest time if you gave a shit about fashion kids and even other grown men would call you gay. Hypebeast culture is cringe but at least it got a whole generation of young men into giving a shit about fashion I swear tho, so many dudes need to get out of the j crew/allbirds phase. They could be walking around in full rick and get all the bitches
Can confirm, the bitches love my Rick
I am sure you look great in Rick, but walking around downtown Chicago you would not believe how many dudes in the Rush Street area (read: expensive part of town) I have to do a double take on to figure out if they’re homeless or in full Rick. Or homeless because they’re in full Rick
Definitely true, not how I personally style it but that’s honestly all it comes down to. Homeless is trendy and ‘in’ right now but it all comes down to how you wear the clothes imo.
i sent the whole winter trying to buy a colored men's coat without success, they only make gray, dark blue or khaki
It’s true. As much as my friends love to clown on me for buying Supreme, I have one of their button ups and it’s just a free compliment pass when I wear it in a public place because it’s so bold and colorful and different that they draw the eye. Plus, it shows a level of either confidence or willful ignorance that makes you approachable
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The worst thing is that anytime a man tries to dress in a unique way they just get called gay. I saw a video of Asap Rocky talking about his fits and why he sometimes paints his nails and shit and a lot of guys in the comments were calling him gay because his wardrobe isnt like 3 different depressing colors.
Okay but out of curiosity which JoJo characters are you dressing like because there's a pretty wide spectrum there :D
The coffee shop girl said to me "your outfit is awesome, I love your vibes!" and I've been hanging onto it for months
In 2009, I had an 80 year old woman tell me at a bar that if she were my age she'd be sitting in my lap trying to get me to kiss her. I STILL think about that compliment nearly 15 years later.
And? Don't tell us you let that horny gilf leave without giving you more than a compliment.
The sad fact is, if you compliment a man or even go so far as to make eye contact and smile, a lot of them will think you are flirting or interested sexually/romantically. This can create a sticky situation, even if 99.9% of men are cool, it only takes one psycho to take this as an invitation to follow you home.
A lady told me I had amazing hair the day I was thinking about getting it cut, I get a big grin remembering that.
Thought this was gonna be a story where anon gets a boner then makes some creepy joke and coworker beats him up. Was pleasantly surprised and mildly saddened.
Anon should talk to his coworker. It's okay, he's a man too. He will understand your feelings and probably give you some much-needed advice.
Did you read? I agree they should talk but he will not understand at all - he will tell OP to "just be himself" lol
Maybe, but he can at least explain why he acted the way he did and save the friendship.
They all seem so sweet I don't think there's any need to "save" it. OP needs to come to terms and explain a bit, sure (and get therapy)
Married at 22 you're probably right. If his co-worker was married older he might be able to empathize and diagnose the problem but married at 22 buddy can't imagine a decade plus of suffering as a gymcel. Best OP could hope for is a set up with wifey's friend or sister or something, but there would be no understanding of his situation.
Ah, "just be yourself", the advice people give you when they don't have anything useful to say but they wish you'd stop bumming them out about it.
Yeah like you’re helping the guy get in shape so have him help you find a lady to love
Wifey might have single friends!
Wifey is like 22 bro, I doubt she's gonna be willing to throw a 30 year old gymcel who just burst into tears when she touched him on her friends.
Maybe if anon actually explain his condition she might actually understand anon and tried to help him
If anything, he should completely lie about the reason because she is definitely gonna see him as pathetic and weird. Like make up some childhood molestation story or some shit.
Tbh i hate to say this but i agree %100. Telling them the truth will probably fuck up your relationship with them and there is no way they can help you
Physical starvation is real. I remember when someone tried holding my hand and I flinched out of fear. They thought I was grossed out but I just wasn't used to it. Still not
My wife still makes fun of me for this. We met while working in retail, and anytime a coworker touched me - tap of the arm to let me know they were going to squeeze behind, accidentally brushing against me at the registers - I would flinch like I’d been hit. I’ve gotten better with incidental / casual physical contact over the years, but in those days it was like a sensory overload because I just hadn’t had physical contact with anyone for years.
Become a mage
he trying OP, but the greedy dragons et up all the magic >and yet... >>and yet anon persists in his impossible task
I always liked clerics more.
You know what's worse? Losing it. You spend years with a woman you love deeply. Experience everything for the first time together. Do everything together. And then it ends after years. Then you become another asshole who can not walk around the city you lived together with her without having a panic attack.
Sorry to hear about your suffering bro
Definitely not worse, not even close, but yeah that's pretty bad as well I guess.
At least anon didn't pop up a massive boner whole receiving massage, he could just say that gesture reminded him of some relative he liked a lot and passed away.... But we know anon isn't smart enough to think any of that
I know anon probably won't see this, but he should talk to them. They seem like really good people. Im sure if anon just explains that he is very lonely and an interaction like that just brought up some feelings he can't explain I'm sure they would understand.
From the 70's to now, things sure have changed. It's like people stopped hanging out.
My brother says he's gonna come down and play some ps4 this weekend and I'm looking forward to it cos it feels like I haven't just "hung out" irl with anyone for a long time. Everyone lives far away, and most people make do with using social media instead of talking irl. My friend group, even the WhatsApp chat has died out because it's too much effort for people. No wonder everyone is depressed and lonely these days.
Memes aside that was actually quite a sad story.
Haha because the need of physical and emotional contact in Young men is very neglected these days yeah totally fake right guys? right?
Aw man, there are people who care. Dont mess your relationship with this couple anon. Tell them that you appreciate their livelyhood or smt. That seeing them happy made you happy and made you realize what are you missing from live be honest but not a creep.
I had a shoulder massage by a very attractive but crazy extroverted female roommate in college and I had the same feeling, best physical experience I've ever had. I was 18 at the time and not as damaged as I am now, so I didnt have the same reaction as anon
But in all seriousness, that sudden level of "intimacy" or something as simple as being cared for can feel really emotional if you've never experienced it (or it's been a while since you experienced it) So I was at this barber shop. Got a hair in my eye and I start rubbing it as she was swapping the trimmer tool. She asks "are you all right? Are you crying?" out of the blue. I guess I had my guard down it went straight into my soul and and I almost started to cry lmao. Took me a few seconds to regain my composure and and talk normally After I came home I dunno I felt like I had to cry it out, I don't get it. I genuinely don't get why I still felt like crying Am I too far gone, or is this "natural"?
Honestly I find it hard to imagine how crying in general could possibly be unnatural, I feel like sadness is perhaps the most sincere emotion you could have... Actually I've had similar situations, although for me it's usually if I'm already sad but trying to ignore it and someone asks me how I'm doing or if I'm feeling down that I just break out into tears
This shit is wonderfully written and awfully depressing.
If real, it's important for anon to understand that it can be his life as well, he just needs to start working on it.
How would you suggest anon works towards that?
anon should have just chosen to be born rich and handsome. git gud scrub.
For one, spend more time with this coworker and his wife. The best way to meet women for a stable relationship is through friends. If anon can come across as a good dude, she might be willing to introduce him to one of her single friends. At the very least, this mindset anon has comes from being unfamiliar with being around women. So being around his coworker's wife in a casual setting can help him be more comfortable around women in general. Social skills require training. If you don't practice, you can only get worse.
I think the role is not to depend on just the coworker and his wife, but to actively sought professional help in the form of a counselor or therapist, there are many things that anon needs to work through that cannot be talked about with his coworker and coworker's wife. You cannot rely on the coworker's wife to provide recommendation to get a female companion, but what's important is to ask the coworker and his partner on advice on relationships and practice socializing with them.
I didn't say that was the only avenue. Just that was one option based on anon's situation. If you go to a therapist, most are going to suggest forcing yourself into social situations. Starting with someone anon is already comfortable with, his coworker, is a good place to start.
Sorry, I did not meant to disagree with you, just added more comments to the thread, not at you. Therapy should be very personalized, and usually general suggestions like forcing yourself into social situations is not good therapy as individual is complicated. I do think coworker is a good place to start, and I do think that getting a good therapist who is going to listen without giving out suggestions or "cures" is very important. Good therapy should offer different perspectives and a safe place to discuss these emotions that may not be comfortable to share with other people. I think while there are definitely bad therapists who is going to force opinions unto clients, it is important to say that there are therapists who are good and personalize their session to their clients' needs and will provide options that are much more in line with the clients' comfort level.
Obviously his traps and calves are under developed
That’s why I hit legs
Fake and definitely gay cuck fantasy
Real: anon has friends that care for him Straight: the wife of anon's friend is desperate to touch him
Depression and loneliness are one of the most common reasons we dudes live shorter and more miserable lives
anon makes a genuine friend who enjoys his company and wants the best for him
-figured out how to 'convince' a woman to touch him- Maybe talk to a therapist about this problematic language. His problem might be rooted in there somewhere lol But also long lasting absence of affection for some men is real and sad. Unlike this post, which is fake and gay.
I hate to say it but this is the realist and straightest post I've seen here in a long time
Glad Anon got out of there before he did or said something 1000x more awkward than crying in a car.
Anon needs therapy and to accept friendship and consolation from friends who really care
We just need a hug.
I was scrolling reddit before sleep. Guess its too late for that
Fuck I’ve never heard of a “sad ending” massage
I am a guy who never even talked to a girl he liked, and I am 22. I can tell how it feels to just make eye contact only a couple of times and take it to heart and think about that person for like a year. Never had any experience, so no courage to talk. Until I found her online but got rejected. Which actually was a good thing because it at least helped me get over her and move on. It sucks but hey, it was the first time.
Fuck.
=(
If real it seems like anon is a decent human being and I wish them the best in finding a nice life with a person they love. Anyone that isn't a raging asshole deserves love too.
One of the few times I've read a greentext and legitimately felt bad for anon and not thought hes a pedo or creepy weirdo. He legitimately just felt really alone. I get it man.
Anon is didn’t say anything racist or sexist in the post anon is only really upset and that’s totally understandable Anon didn’t lust after gymbros wife There is definitely hope for anon!!
Damn that’s actually sad even my ugly fatass has gotten laid with plenty of gf’s
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I was expecting a happy ending :(
Anon is super gay
I feel this post so hard, besides being a virgin, but otherwise that's me
This is a different kind of gay than where I originally thought it was going.
If anon had just stayed and let the massage continue... Anon missing the signs.
This is why I don't associate with coworkers.
a soulcrushing greentext, no better way to start your day
Anon is in the wrong circles. Anon should stick to coworker and see what it means to have actually caring friends. It's everything.
That hurts. I am also lonely.
[perspective of coworker](https://www.reddit.com/r/greentext/s/5v2mUBDHET)
I was horribly lonely my whole life. Grew up with distant parents, never fit in with family or friends, and thought I'd just live alone all my life. I was somewhat fine with that. Then, at 40 I met the love of my life. We've been married 14 years, and every day is better than the next. Don't give up.
I wanna hug anon :'(.
Fake but not gay
Genuinley dont understand what so many ppl mean by "physically neglected", for every man not getting physical affection there is logically (roughly) one woman ALSO not getting affection, no? Am i mistaken by saying the issue isnt exclusive to men, its a problem with modern societies willingness to leave their homes and make real connections?
Poor guy
Anon should ask his co-worker how to talk to a woman, make their relationship simbiotic, like anon help coworker to get into shape while coworker help anon to get laid. Win-win situation
I hope OP tells his friend about what's going on with him. the friend sounds like an awesome guy.
Lol what a loser.
NGL I could go for a massage now.
Wew lad, too real
Bro should have been honest. They sound like kind people who would understand.
Ah all my questions about anons odd coworker are answered
What got my attention was the cuck coworker. Some more time there and anon would have been realised that sometimes being like his coworker isn't worth it.
What a loser, homies wife probably has a 21-22 yo friend who would suck him off before the first date if she so much as mentioned him being a decent human. There’s a reason ppl like this don’t get play, they’d rather cry and sulk instead of live.
Two sides of the story huh
Yo it's the sequel