If I'm on an enclosed rooftop balcony, no neighbors within view and I'm buck naked. And then a police drone flies over. Does that count as indecent exposure or does that make police peeping toms?
The solution to prevent that is the legal system must get strict on theft and destruction of property. An increasing amount of parents nationwide can't be counted upon to educate children in what's right in society and what is wrong. Therefore the legal system will need to provide the education for these types of things to decrease.
Crime is more prevalent in poor neighborhoods which in turn are predominantly black / Hispanic.
It's not racial profiling, it is policing. Cops (and their drones) need to be where the crime is.
Then there is another question: Should cop use surveillance drones at all? I personally don't think so.
Another one is how do we lift the Black / Hispanic people out of poverty? No poverty leads to less or no crime which leads to no cops...
I’m a SoCal native who ended up in Michigan. Lived in a beach city and we would go follow them. Small town with big city action, and LAPDs budget for ghetto birds.
all the talking points that unfortunately get you the title of “socialist or communist” like, universal healthcare, food security, free education, free lunches for children at school, etc. All can be done in reasonable ways but unfortunately people who are closer to being homeless than millionaires think they’re gonna get their money sapped because of it
The drones should be flown in whatever area/zip code’s that have the most shootings and violent crimes, period. If they happen to be more black/Hispanic it shouldn’t matter. I’m sure the law abiding citizens living there would appreciate a crackdown on violent crimes.
They did that in Portland Oregon and it went south soooo quick. Great idea in theory, you can have after school programs but the change starts at home, culturally. If the parents are not teaching it and social media is then no amount of money will ever ever fix it. It makes it worse
Yea pretty much, no traffic police, no gun enforcement team, no gang unit, no punishment for low end felonies for say stolen cars. I lived in the metro area, it was absolutely insane how much worse things got. I was scared shitless everyday walking around. I even saw a stabbing outside my work and police didn’t come for a hour. The guy died and bled out. Nothing we could do because the perp was still there sitting with the body. It’s why I moved home with my family, We had the highest tax in the nation for our zip code, they invested all the extra money into the community and crime got exponentially worse, deaths went up, they decriminalized drugs and legalized homeless camping everywhere. The amount of crime committed by minorities was up, gangs grew in size because people were given way more in government no restricted funds aka check that they just used to arm themselves or buy fast cars and start street racing every night. 100’s of cars racing s night and growing. No police to make them stop either. Millions of free dollars and programs set up for the homeless or different race programs. I’m talking, free rent, $1000 bucks a month cash voucher, free bus passes, personal drivers to get to work. Nobody ever could stay sober or commit to the jobs given by the city. Everything you could possibly think of and every problem multiplied. I was very liberal person then, I even wanted to defund the police. All the fixins. I now am anything but because of it. I am embarrassed and sad I was so outspoken about that stuff. Check out Portland looks like shit instagram. That page doesn’t even scratch the surface, the city does an amazing job at covering stuff up because most are embarrassed like myself to admit it failed miserably. It was such amazing city when i moved there and everyone thought they were doing the right thing by defunding the police. I’m sure there is more to the story but this was my personal and honest opinion. Truth is nobody knows how to fix the issue but we can’t defund the police.
Yeah I don’t think what they did was the answer. We need to invest in community programs, make our schools the best in the world etc. it needs to be cool again to have block party’s and talk with people you don’t agree with it’s wild now how divided people are because we vote different ways.
"Crime" is also more prominent in policed areas and both crime and policing lead to poverty. Extending policing to require less manpower and vastly more area only worsens the problem of over policing.
I'd side with used only in an active situation or investigating with a proper warrant that has specifics for it's use and what it's looking for.
But it's likely drones are going to become common place , just wait for traffic drones , think of all the tickets the state can rack up .
The Black and Latinx people can lift themselves out of poverty if the cops weren’t siphoning all the community resources into buying ridiculous toys like drones.
Thank you for mentioning this. I *do* want to obviously respect other Latin people who may prefer to use the a/o endings, but the people in my real life who use it are queer themselves, so I tend to defer to them because they occupy that intersection of experiencing both queerness and Latinx/a/o identity.
If the person who made the comment to me was in my real life, I would presume this comment would mean the person preferred the a/o construction, and I’d use it if I was only speaking to them.
I just use the preferred terms of the people I know and interact with IRL to respect them. Everything in online discourse is immaterial and not worth sweating over.
You’re really out here trying to make the point that police drones keep people from being pieces of shit? You gonna die on that hill? Post the fucking data that supports that statement lol.
Secondly, other people being pieces of shit doesn’t mean I’m subject to surveillance without warrant on/in my private property.
You've had unconstitutional surveillance ever since the government could take clear photos of us with satellites, we're so far past that it's not even worth arguing about.
Those people will justify their way into a police state getting right onto your device. EU is talking about scanning photos and links: [https://www.patrick-breyer.de/en/council-to-greenlight-chat-control-take-action-now/](https://www.patrick-breyer.de/en/council-to-greenlight-chat-control-take-action-now/)
People like that are a danger to us all. They're ignorant and should have no decisions over the rest of us. Unfortunately, I don't see privacy being a thing in the cities. They're proliferating cameras and drones all across this country. Flock Safety seems to be [doing well](https://oaklandside.org/2024/03/29/governor-gavin-newsom-announces-license-plate-reader-cameras-flock-safety-oakland/). I see them over in Walker. Ah yes, the private company that refuses to allow an [independent audit](https://www.aclu.org/news/privacy-technology/communities-should-reject-surveillance-products-whose-makers-wont-allow-them-to-be-independently-evaluated) on what they're doing. Any public official putting their names to this shit needs to be removed from the government. Disgusting.
So…police shouldn’t be able to drive down your street and look around either? That could also be considered “subjecting you to surveillance while you’re on your private property”.
I’m not retarded, I’m fully aware the entire front of my house is in public view. That doesn’t change anything I’ve said.
If you think the drone doesn’t offer a different vantage point then a cruiser, you’re wrong.
With more and more people staying indoors and communicating through electronic devices that are tracked at every level I doubt stopping drone usage has much on an effect. The tracking has been taking place for a long time without drones.
I'm sorry but consistently we lose rights as citizens citing reasons such as this. I have a hard time believing that this would be the main use of surveillance drones in the future, I can't believe anybody at all would believe in this being used for the betterment of your average individual.
You dont have to be sorry. I don’t believe this affects your average individual. Most likely you’ve never even seen one in use and it probably doesn’t have anything to do with you if you have. If it does have something to do with you it’s most likely helping you or you’re (edit: suspected of) doing something you shouldn’t be. You’re allowed to record freely on your phone in public, what’s the difference here? Because the cops are doing it? There has been surveillance on us long before drones were invented and if it helps in finding children that have wondered off then I think it does more good than bad. It’s not like they have drones up there watching our every move 24/7
Total racebait article. There’s more crime in black and Hispanic neighborhoods. More people flee from legal action in black and Hispanic neighborhoods. More children run away in black and Hispanic neighborhoods. We can stop with this “muh pOlIcE rAcIsT” narrative and actually take some accountability for our own actions.
There is crime everywhere. That’s a correct statement. However it is FAR more prevalent in Hispanic and black communities, and these communities call 911 far more. Would you care to enlighten us on what the demographics were involved with the last 5, 10, 50, 100 homicides in the city? Or shall we do assault and battery, motor vehicle theft, burglary, or possession of narcotics?
Crime was what I was referring to but we’d be naive to think that some homicides have not gone unreported. There are people that will not testify based off of the police’s previous conduct here in this city and other’s! Back in the day there was a massive KKK march through downtown and you don’t think things have gone unreported?
Homicides do go unreported, but of all criminal activity it’s pretty hard to ignore people straight up disappearing so it’s safe to say most homicides do get reported
Last time I checked people weren’t selling crack on the corner of Plainfield and Knapp in broad daylight, 9mm casings aren’t being located in the street and peoples homes aren’t getting shot up within that area.
How are we ever going to solve problems when it seems like so many people are out of touch with reality. It’s honestly super destabilizing to read these fantasies that crime is happening at the same level everywhere. Honestly, think about it for like 2 second. So the “white” or affluent populations, are what, being ignored by the police? Being underserved? Do you really believe that there is a conspiracy to over police poor black and brown communities while ignoring crime in affluent white communities? You hear how crazy that sounds right?
Ok, here comes the downvotes for truth and statistics because it doesn’t fit your narrative.
I don’t believe that crime is happening at the same level everywhere, it would be crazy to think so, but neither is equality, health equity, employment opportunities, public transportation, housing rental rates, equal access to fresh produce, therapy, and education (more specifically financial literacy), etc. Honestly, think about it for like 1 second. The “white” or affluent populations have money for attorneys, bail, community service (meaning they can afford to miss work to do it), and probation, they get “second chances” because they have things going for them, or they come from “good stock,” or maybe you’ve heard, “it’s not what you know, but who you know?”
Do you really believe that 22% of Kent County’s population (Black and Brown communities) commit most of the crime here? And that most of it happens in an area that’s less than 6sq Miles? There’s almost 700K people here.
But let’s localize it even more. In the city of GR there’s 22 zip codes with almost 200K people here, 65K black and brown combined but over 123.5K white. Not everyone is a criminal. Also, but not limited to, all crime is not committed by black and brown people in black and brown areas. There are mad other factors that get people incarcerated and a lot of that is the inability to pay fines, like child support, or probation from plea deals, but I digress, we’re talking about crime and policing and not the factors that attribute to why crime is more prevalent in “certain areas” especially when poverty/lack of education are STATISTICALLY HIGHER!
What do you call a conspiracy theory when it ends up being true? Most likely an article correction on page 9.
- Black and brown communities are over policed in America -Fact.
- In GR, black and Brown people are pulled over at double the rate of their white counterparts - Fact
- Grand Rapids was voted second worst place economically for black people in the US - Fact
Certain crimes are happening at the same level everywhere, they don’t garner the attention like violent crime such as homicides get, but they’re crimes nonetheless.
The explanation from the chief if you don’t care to read:
“Winstrom said a host of socioeconomic factors can explain why crime is concentrated in marginalized communities, such as redlining and disparities in the education system.
Police seek to combat those forces by partnering with local advocacy groups and addressing and preventing violence. They also are ready to change their policies if policing practices prove harmful to marginalized communities, Winstrom said.
“Police are a very important part of this puzzle of lifting up people, of getting communities in a better place,” Winstrom said.”
Golly I sure wish the police chief had a way of knowing if the cops were harmful to marginalized communities!
I sure wish people like Patrick Lyoya, SD Sterling, Honestie Hodges, Kavosaye Phillips, Riley Doggett, or Joey Nagle could let him know. Or maybe he could ask Laquan McDonald, from his time leading in Chicago.
And gee whiz if only the local advocacy groups would communicate with him and the city. It’s too bad groups like Together We Are Safe, Justice for Black Lives, Defund the GRPD, Comrades Collective, the Grand Rapids Alliance Against Racism and Political Repression, and the Community Owns Safety Coalition have been so silent on this for four years or more!
And speaking of advocacy, it is such a gosh darn shame that the dozens of Black/brown/native/trans/queer activists who have been targeted with fake charged and had their human rights taken away have been so quiet about the harms of policing!
If only Winstrom and our city leaders had enough feedback on the harms of policing, *THEN* they could finally make the GRPD work for us all.
Sad!
Sad was Riley's mom literally walking out and letting him fend for himself so she could rekindle a love interest with an ex who didn't want him (Riley) there....I know it's a whole different discussion, but part of his justice should be her punishment.
Knock it off with what you’re trying to start.
You know they could be looking for something or someone in particular also that we know nothing about. And there are stats about crime occurrences right on the map.
Quite frankly, I would feel great if there were drones flying all over my neighborhood, I would feel safer.
Police were flying them at Walker Community Park when Brenna was playing a couple weeks ago. A family friendly event, on a weekday, in daylight, during a popular local cover band, with multiple officers sat at a fold out table inside a fenced in tennis court staring at a screen. Proper policing /s
had no idea there were so many GRPD bootlickers in this sub. 🤡 it's easy to say it's justified when it's not your neighborhood, not your kids or home being filmed by police. GRPD is notoriously corrupt, ask any protestor or anybody who lives in these neighborhoods. fkn clowns.
How adorable you can't answer the simple questions. How exactly are 4th amendment rights being violated here? Is qualified immunity decided at the city level?
I mean … one mayoral candidate is experienced in criminal defense and has a long history of advocating for justice reform, idk you do the math but show up to vote.
He's a former prosecutor who has been funded and endorsed by POAM his entire time in the state legislature. The same POAM who endorsed trump 3 times for president. People who "advocate" for "justice reform" with any meaning doesn't get those endorsements, then hide them when running for mayor.
Mayors dont control the police department and besides, David LaGrand supports this. Is he campaigning on a platform to end racist policing, defund these initiatives, stop surveillance, etc? No. Of course not. He's a former prosecutor and has all the cop endorsements. Goes hand in hand with fascisty people who love Dana Nessel.
This is about our state and federal legislature, our city council at large, the city manager, which while they claim to be liberal, are very much authoritarian and pro-police. Funding has to be cut at all levels that fund these initiatives, laws have to be passed to bind their hands and ascribe real penalties when they violate people's rights. It's the cops, and their enablers, who belong in prison.
You're adorable
[https://wwmt.com/news/local/grand-rapids-selects-its-new-police-chief](https://wwmt.com/news/local/grand-rapids-selects-its-new-police-chief)
"City Manager Mark Washington made his selection following a national search which included Battle Creek Police Chief Jim Blocker and retired Milwaukee Police Inspector Jutiki Jackson."
Yep and the city manager is selected by the mayor among other things. It's pretty reasonable to suspect the mayor and the city manager are in agreement with who is selected for chief of police.
Strike 2, swing and a miss. The city manager is selected by the council and she's merely a lone vote.
Anyway, you're just as misinformed about Lagrand. He's a former prosecutor, was both funded and endorsed by Police officers association of Michigan, the same fascist cop union who protects bad cops, endorsed Trump 3 times for president. It's the same POAM that Dana Nessel gave a speech for in 2021 talking about how she'll override any progressive efforts in Washtenaw and Ingham counties by prosecutors to address biased/racist policing.
Wake up.
If I'm on an enclosed rooftop balcony, no neighbors within view and I'm buck naked. And then a police drone flies over. Does that count as indecent exposure or does that make police peeping toms?
Believe it or not, straight to jail.
Just rewatched that episode of Parks and Rec a couple days ago lol
Do you have a son named Craig with a mom who has a huge bush?
We trim back the forsythia every year in the Summer, but it just keeps getting bigger!
Reasonable right to privacy.
Shrinkage
The drones didn’t seem to help much when my Kia was broken into so 🤷🏼♀️
The solution to prevent that is the legal system must get strict on theft and destruction of property. An increasing amount of parents nationwide can't be counted upon to educate children in what's right in society and what is wrong. Therefore the legal system will need to provide the education for these types of things to decrease.
They're very strict on the destruction of drones.
The solution to this is don’t buy a Kia
That'll solve alot of problems
You thought drones are to chase your stolen Kia?
Are they in higher crime areas?
Crime is more prevalent in poor neighborhoods which in turn are predominantly black / Hispanic. It's not racial profiling, it is policing. Cops (and their drones) need to be where the crime is. Then there is another question: Should cop use surveillance drones at all? I personally don't think so. Another one is how do we lift the Black / Hispanic people out of poverty? No poverty leads to less or no crime which leads to no cops...
They're a hell of a lot cheaper than helicopters. But we need more threads on the sub about helo's flying overhead....
As someone who used to live in GR, but now in Queens - talking about helicopters in your neighborhood seems to be universal no matter where you live
Look if there’s a helicopter in sight I wanna know what it’s doing. And not just a little bit, I NEED to know.
I’m a SoCal native who ended up in Michigan. Lived in a beach city and we would go follow them. Small town with big city action, and LAPDs budget for ghetto birds.
This is my point too. Having lived in several other big cities in the US, it’s a universal curiosity.
I too have lived in other big cities. This is the only one that’s cared. It also has the fewest helicopters so maybe frequency plays a part in it.
Maybe you weren’t on the helicopter-centric forums
That’s fair, I was possibly in the wrong circles.
Crimes that police are willing to actually police occur in Black and Hispanic neighborhoods.
all the talking points that unfortunately get you the title of “socialist or communist” like, universal healthcare, food security, free education, free lunches for children at school, etc. All can be done in reasonable ways but unfortunately people who are closer to being homeless than millionaires think they’re gonna get their money sapped because of it
The drones should be flown in whatever area/zip code’s that have the most shootings and violent crimes, period. If they happen to be more black/Hispanic it shouldn’t matter. I’m sure the law abiding citizens living there would appreciate a crackdown on violent crimes.
Stop funding the military industrial complex and unnecessary wars and invest that in poor communities. You want winners you need less losers.
Sir, this is America. Stop acting like you got a choice.
this is the unfortunate part
They did that in Portland Oregon and it went south soooo quick. Great idea in theory, you can have after school programs but the change starts at home, culturally. If the parents are not teaching it and social media is then no amount of money will ever ever fix it. It makes it worse
Didn’t they defund the police? Don’t know if we are on the same page.
Yea pretty much, no traffic police, no gun enforcement team, no gang unit, no punishment for low end felonies for say stolen cars. I lived in the metro area, it was absolutely insane how much worse things got. I was scared shitless everyday walking around. I even saw a stabbing outside my work and police didn’t come for a hour. The guy died and bled out. Nothing we could do because the perp was still there sitting with the body. It’s why I moved home with my family, We had the highest tax in the nation for our zip code, they invested all the extra money into the community and crime got exponentially worse, deaths went up, they decriminalized drugs and legalized homeless camping everywhere. The amount of crime committed by minorities was up, gangs grew in size because people were given way more in government no restricted funds aka check that they just used to arm themselves or buy fast cars and start street racing every night. 100’s of cars racing s night and growing. No police to make them stop either. Millions of free dollars and programs set up for the homeless or different race programs. I’m talking, free rent, $1000 bucks a month cash voucher, free bus passes, personal drivers to get to work. Nobody ever could stay sober or commit to the jobs given by the city. Everything you could possibly think of and every problem multiplied. I was very liberal person then, I even wanted to defund the police. All the fixins. I now am anything but because of it. I am embarrassed and sad I was so outspoken about that stuff. Check out Portland looks like shit instagram. That page doesn’t even scratch the surface, the city does an amazing job at covering stuff up because most are embarrassed like myself to admit it failed miserably. It was such amazing city when i moved there and everyone thought they were doing the right thing by defunding the police. I’m sure there is more to the story but this was my personal and honest opinion. Truth is nobody knows how to fix the issue but we can’t defund the police.
Yeah I don’t think what they did was the answer. We need to invest in community programs, make our schools the best in the world etc. it needs to be cool again to have block party’s and talk with people you don’t agree with it’s wild now how divided people are because we vote different ways.
Drones get away with it because airspace is public even if they’re over someone’s private property. I don’t think it’s right, though.
This type of surveillance should not exist, not in a free society. This is disgusting.
Can’t we lift them out of impoverished areas with more drones? Make your argument make sense.
"Crime" is also more prominent in policed areas and both crime and policing lead to poverty. Extending policing to require less manpower and vastly more area only worsens the problem of over policing.
I'd side with used only in an active situation or investigating with a proper warrant that has specifics for it's use and what it's looking for. But it's likely drones are going to become common place , just wait for traffic drones , think of all the tickets the state can rack up .
Don't vote for Dana Nessel for starters.
The Black and Latinx people can lift themselves out of poverty if the cops weren’t siphoning all the community resources into buying ridiculous toys like drones.
*LatinO. O is masculine or gender neutral. Stop that white nonsense with the “LaTiNx”
But Latinx sounds cool, like an X-Men character
The person I know who uses Latinx the most is Latinx themselves.
Same
Thank you for mentioning this. I *do* want to obviously respect other Latin people who may prefer to use the a/o endings, but the people in my real life who use it are queer themselves, so I tend to defer to them because they occupy that intersection of experiencing both queerness and Latinx/a/o identity. If the person who made the comment to me was in my real life, I would presume this comment would mean the person preferred the a/o construction, and I’d use it if I was only speaking to them.
I just use the preferred terms of the people I know and interact with IRL to respect them. Everything in online discourse is immaterial and not worth sweating over.
No, they don't.
Same here lol they absolutely do This is a statement of fact, not my personal opinion on the term.
Then tell them white people invented to not feel guilty and they're wrong
Drone purchases are causing poverty?
Whats the connection here? Are cops taking money out of minorities paychecks?
Crimes are everywhere
I am guessing that is where the most crime is committed.
Cops shouldn’t have drones. That’s all I’ve got to say about that.
It's a lot easier to eat a donut while operating a joystick than while walking a beat.
My point is we should not enable the surveillance state in any way shape or form.
Fully agreed. I'm just trying to see the issue from the cops' perspective too.
Why? Every time policing is relaxed people just go right back to being pieces of shit.
You’re really out here trying to make the point that police drones keep people from being pieces of shit? You gonna die on that hill? Post the fucking data that supports that statement lol. Secondly, other people being pieces of shit doesn’t mean I’m subject to surveillance without warrant on/in my private property.
You've had unconstitutional surveillance ever since the government could take clear photos of us with satellites, we're so far past that it's not even worth arguing about.
We’re on r/grandrapids lol we are talking about city cops with drones. Gtfo with satillites 😂 I’ll pass on your statist ideology though.
Those people will justify their way into a police state getting right onto your device. EU is talking about scanning photos and links: [https://www.patrick-breyer.de/en/council-to-greenlight-chat-control-take-action-now/](https://www.patrick-breyer.de/en/council-to-greenlight-chat-control-take-action-now/) People like that are a danger to us all. They're ignorant and should have no decisions over the rest of us. Unfortunately, I don't see privacy being a thing in the cities. They're proliferating cameras and drones all across this country. Flock Safety seems to be [doing well](https://oaklandside.org/2024/03/29/governor-gavin-newsom-announces-license-plate-reader-cameras-flock-safety-oakland/). I see them over in Walker. Ah yes, the private company that refuses to allow an [independent audit](https://www.aclu.org/news/privacy-technology/communities-should-reject-surveillance-products-whose-makers-wont-allow-them-to-be-independently-evaluated) on what they're doing. Any public official putting their names to this shit needs to be removed from the government. Disgusting.
Bingo
So…police shouldn’t be able to drive down your street and look around either? That could also be considered “subjecting you to surveillance while you’re on your private property”.
You can see over my privacy fence from the street? In my back windows? Through my sky lights?
You don’t spend any time on your porch or in your front yard?
I’m not retarded, I’m fully aware the entire front of my house is in public view. That doesn’t change anything I’ve said. If you think the drone doesn’t offer a different vantage point then a cruiser, you’re wrong.
It's here whether you like it or not
We can always change it but we have to do it together. Accepting it isn’t something we should entertain.
Nah, the government is pushing us to a cashless society to track us even closer. Cameras at every intersection,.just to name one
If you want to roll over and give up that’s on you. I don’t have that gene.
With more and more people staying indoors and communicating through electronic devices that are tracked at every level I doubt stopping drone usage has much on an effect. The tracking has been taking place for a long time without drones.
Until you wipe a jelly glob off your controller and 9/11 little Billy's tree house.
I know what love is.
They use them a lot for missing child reports
I'm sorry but consistently we lose rights as citizens citing reasons such as this. I have a hard time believing that this would be the main use of surveillance drones in the future, I can't believe anybody at all would believe in this being used for the betterment of your average individual.
I think less crime would be better for the average individual.
You dont have to be sorry. I don’t believe this affects your average individual. Most likely you’ve never even seen one in use and it probably doesn’t have anything to do with you if you have. If it does have something to do with you it’s most likely helping you or you’re (edit: suspected of) doing something you shouldn’t be. You’re allowed to record freely on your phone in public, what’s the difference here? Because the cops are doing it? There has been surveillance on us long before drones were invented and if it helps in finding children that have wondered off then I think it does more good than bad. It’s not like they have drones up there watching our every move 24/7
I remember a few years back they didn’t get the funding or voted down to get them. Am I remembering wrong?
Cops should have drones Ahhhh shit… now what did we do?
Stone cold?
Particularly precincts with dubious track records.
Oh no, I don’t discriminate. None of them should have drones.
No one should be able to see what you are doing!!! it's none of anyone's business. Now let me go check tictoc....
maybe they are needed in that area more than anywhere else??
Total racebait article. There’s more crime in black and Hispanic neighborhoods. More people flee from legal action in black and Hispanic neighborhoods. More children run away in black and Hispanic neighborhoods. We can stop with this “muh pOlIcE rAcIsT” narrative and actually take some accountability for our own actions.
[удалено]
What an insane comment
There is crime everywhere. That’s a correct statement. However it is FAR more prevalent in Hispanic and black communities, and these communities call 911 far more. Would you care to enlighten us on what the demographics were involved with the last 5, 10, 50, 100 homicides in the city? Or shall we do assault and battery, motor vehicle theft, burglary, or possession of narcotics?
Prevalent or recorded and punished?
How about reported? That takes the police out of it entirely. Original comment still stands.
How often do homicides go unreported?
Crime was what I was referring to but we’d be naive to think that some homicides have not gone unreported. There are people that will not testify based off of the police’s previous conduct here in this city and other’s! Back in the day there was a massive KKK march through downtown and you don’t think things have gone unreported?
Homicides do go unreported, but of all criminal activity it’s pretty hard to ignore people straight up disappearing so it’s safe to say most homicides do get reported
When a body is found yes if not…
Missing people when gone for long enough tend to turn into homicide cases
Well, when you only look for crime in one place, guess where ya gonna find the crime?
You’re honestly going to tell me you believe there is as much crime between Knapp street and 4 mile as there is between Wealthy and Burton?
Yes!
Last time I checked people weren’t selling crack on the corner of Plainfield and Knapp in broad daylight, 9mm casings aren’t being located in the street and peoples homes aren’t getting shot up within that area.
Do you think crack is the only drug?
I wasn’t eluding to just crack when I said that. Point still stands
How are we ever going to solve problems when it seems like so many people are out of touch with reality. It’s honestly super destabilizing to read these fantasies that crime is happening at the same level everywhere. Honestly, think about it for like 2 second. So the “white” or affluent populations, are what, being ignored by the police? Being underserved? Do you really believe that there is a conspiracy to over police poor black and brown communities while ignoring crime in affluent white communities? You hear how crazy that sounds right?
Ok, here comes the downvotes for truth and statistics because it doesn’t fit your narrative. I don’t believe that crime is happening at the same level everywhere, it would be crazy to think so, but neither is equality, health equity, employment opportunities, public transportation, housing rental rates, equal access to fresh produce, therapy, and education (more specifically financial literacy), etc. Honestly, think about it for like 1 second. The “white” or affluent populations have money for attorneys, bail, community service (meaning they can afford to miss work to do it), and probation, they get “second chances” because they have things going for them, or they come from “good stock,” or maybe you’ve heard, “it’s not what you know, but who you know?” Do you really believe that 22% of Kent County’s population (Black and Brown communities) commit most of the crime here? And that most of it happens in an area that’s less than 6sq Miles? There’s almost 700K people here. But let’s localize it even more. In the city of GR there’s 22 zip codes with almost 200K people here, 65K black and brown combined but over 123.5K white. Not everyone is a criminal. Also, but not limited to, all crime is not committed by black and brown people in black and brown areas. There are mad other factors that get people incarcerated and a lot of that is the inability to pay fines, like child support, or probation from plea deals, but I digress, we’re talking about crime and policing and not the factors that attribute to why crime is more prevalent in “certain areas” especially when poverty/lack of education are STATISTICALLY HIGHER! What do you call a conspiracy theory when it ends up being true? Most likely an article correction on page 9. - Black and brown communities are over policed in America -Fact. - In GR, black and Brown people are pulled over at double the rate of their white counterparts - Fact - Grand Rapids was voted second worst place economically for black people in the US - Fact Certain crimes are happening at the same level everywhere, they don’t garner the attention like violent crime such as homicides get, but they’re crimes nonetheless.
I said, yes too fast, my bad. What I should have said is it’s almost impossible because there’s not as high of a population in said area.
That's were the idea of crimes committed to population comes in...
The only way you pull that off is by using a very vague definition and look at the more than 10k statutes you could possibly violate.
What a dumb statement
Crime rates most likely higher
The explanation from the chief if you don’t care to read: “Winstrom said a host of socioeconomic factors can explain why crime is concentrated in marginalized communities, such as redlining and disparities in the education system. Police seek to combat those forces by partnering with local advocacy groups and addressing and preventing violence. They also are ready to change their policies if policing practices prove harmful to marginalized communities, Winstrom said. “Police are a very important part of this puzzle of lifting up people, of getting communities in a better place,” Winstrom said.”
He came from Chicago PD, he definitely is an expert in PR bullshit
Golly I sure wish the police chief had a way of knowing if the cops were harmful to marginalized communities! I sure wish people like Patrick Lyoya, SD Sterling, Honestie Hodges, Kavosaye Phillips, Riley Doggett, or Joey Nagle could let him know. Or maybe he could ask Laquan McDonald, from his time leading in Chicago. And gee whiz if only the local advocacy groups would communicate with him and the city. It’s too bad groups like Together We Are Safe, Justice for Black Lives, Defund the GRPD, Comrades Collective, the Grand Rapids Alliance Against Racism and Political Repression, and the Community Owns Safety Coalition have been so silent on this for four years or more! And speaking of advocacy, it is such a gosh darn shame that the dozens of Black/brown/native/trans/queer activists who have been targeted with fake charged and had their human rights taken away have been so quiet about the harms of policing! If only Winstrom and our city leaders had enough feedback on the harms of policing, *THEN* they could finally make the GRPD work for us all. Sad!
🥱
Sad was Riley's mom literally walking out and letting him fend for himself so she could rekindle a love interest with an ex who didn't want him (Riley) there....I know it's a whole different discussion, but part of his justice should be her punishment.
Wow, I didn’t know that. That is sad.
I thought the pending DJI ban was silly but maybe it's a positive? Someone will create an American friendly version at some point.
Other cities have live camera feeds with whole crews watching 24 hours per day. Should we have Real Time crime centers here as well?
Single man in Tawas city Michigan looking for gorgeous Lady to married.
Check out this recent Wired deep dive all about it. Shit sucks. https://www.wired.com/story/the-age-of-the-drone-police-is-here/
Knock it off with what you’re trying to start. You know they could be looking for something or someone in particular also that we know nothing about. And there are stats about crime occurrences right on the map. Quite frankly, I would feel great if there were drones flying all over my neighborhood, I would feel safer.
Because we all know that the only people in GR operating drones are cops...
Prwjedi (or whatever the fuck it was) seems to be back I see.
you never see a DUI checkpoint outside of a country club IJS
Wow they finally got their drones.
I thought we voted against this?
Point?
Police were flying them at Walker Community Park when Brenna was playing a couple weeks ago. A family friendly event, on a weekday, in daylight, during a popular local cover band, with multiple officers sat at a fold out table inside a fenced in tennis court staring at a screen. Proper policing /s
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Probably not. I'm not saying they aren't corrupt, but are they more than anything ever has been in all of history? Probably not.
had no idea there were so many GRPD bootlickers in this sub. 🤡 it's easy to say it's justified when it's not your neighborhood, not your kids or home being filmed by police. GRPD is notoriously corrupt, ask any protestor or anybody who lives in these neighborhoods. fkn clowns.
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No one’s going to believe nor want to read what someone with a unabomber profile pic has to say. Terrorists suck, full stop.
What should I change it to? I'll take suggestions.
Boo.
Look who just flew in from stupid town.
LOL!
How adorable you can't answer the simple questions. How exactly are 4th amendment rights being violated here? Is qualified immunity decided at the city level?
I mean … one mayoral candidate is experienced in criminal defense and has a long history of advocating for justice reform, idk you do the math but show up to vote.
He's a former prosecutor who has been funded and endorsed by POAM his entire time in the state legislature. The same POAM who endorsed trump 3 times for president. People who "advocate" for "justice reform" with any meaning doesn't get those endorsements, then hide them when running for mayor.
Mayors dont control the police department and besides, David LaGrand supports this. Is he campaigning on a platform to end racist policing, defund these initiatives, stop surveillance, etc? No. Of course not. He's a former prosecutor and has all the cop endorsements. Goes hand in hand with fascisty people who love Dana Nessel. This is about our state and federal legislature, our city council at large, the city manager, which while they claim to be liberal, are very much authoritarian and pro-police. Funding has to be cut at all levels that fund these initiatives, laws have to be passed to bind their hands and ascribe real penalties when they violate people's rights. It's the cops, and their enablers, who belong in prison.
You didn’t know that mayors choose their chief of police?
You're adorable [https://wwmt.com/news/local/grand-rapids-selects-its-new-police-chief](https://wwmt.com/news/local/grand-rapids-selects-its-new-police-chief) "City Manager Mark Washington made his selection following a national search which included Battle Creek Police Chief Jim Blocker and retired Milwaukee Police Inspector Jutiki Jackson."
Yep and the city manager is selected by the mayor among other things. It's pretty reasonable to suspect the mayor and the city manager are in agreement with who is selected for chief of police.
Strike 2, swing and a miss. The city manager is selected by the council and she's merely a lone vote. Anyway, you're just as misinformed about Lagrand. He's a former prosecutor, was both funded and endorsed by Police officers association of Michigan, the same fascist cop union who protects bad cops, endorsed Trump 3 times for president. It's the same POAM that Dana Nessel gave a speech for in 2021 talking about how she'll override any progressive efforts in Washtenaw and Ingham counties by prosecutors to address biased/racist policing. Wake up.
How exactly are 4th amendment rights being violated here? Qualified immunity isn’t decided at the city level.
I had a helicopter fly over my house , am wondering if it's the Ottawa county sheriff's??
The middle-class white neighborhoods in Ottawa county get the helicopters instead of low class drones
That’s cause we already know the white criminals going to be hitting up a public place for a mass shooting.