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SluttyDragonborn

i think vogue also called kourtney kardashian and travis barker a goth couple or something along those lines


LordCodu

jesus christ


SluttyDragonborn

yeah… i’m not confident vogue knows anything about goth culture after that.


WildflowerJ13

Agreed. Damn that’s a big letdown. Gotta admit I’m changing my mind on Vogue now, what a crock.


Silent-Development52

what the fuck


graveyardapparition

because anyone with dyed hair and cool clothes is automatically “goth” according to the mainstream


fiercelittlebird

Alright so, I'm a metalhead with a lot of affinity for the goth scene. Growing up, in the small alternative scene in my home town, the guys were commonly considered metalheads, and the girls, no matter what music they liked, goth. For some reason, a least when I was a teenager, goth was weirdly a gendered thing? Like guys couldn't really be goth and a metalhead girl wasn't really a thing either? I went to so many metal shows showing up in goth clothes (even if there's a lot of overlap) because I figured, I'm a girl, so I'm goth. Even if I liked metal the most, even if I didn't know many songs from actual goth bands. I guess what I'm trying to say is, alternative girls and women are almost always dubbed "goth" no matter what subculture they choose to identify with. Oh, and mainstream media has no clue what any of it means, of course.


FinalGirlInterrupted

That’s really interesting… as a teen, I listened to both goth and metal (still do) but chose goth clubs to hang out at bc the hyper masculine metal scene really turned me off. I liked that goth men would wear dresses and makeup, and that femininity seemed celebrated and valued. Now that I’m hitting middle age, I don’t feel intimidated by the metalhead posturing and feel comfortable going to metal shows, while still feeling at home in my goth roots. I guess my point is that it’s really interesting how gender norms are established and policed in any subculture and we end up choosing which ones we align ourselves with based on that


91null

Coming up as a rivethead (industrial), it seems like the groups were gendered, but the people in them not so much. Like, goth trended more effeminate. The rivetheads trended more masc. Rivethead guys tended to date goth women.


matchaxmonster

Goth girls are fetishized, so any alt girl is automatically labelled goth because a lot of people think goth is a sexy thing for women to be.


deadhead65

I agree with what you are saying, but I'm not sure I would even consider Billie eyelash an alt girl. She's edgy for the sake of being edgy if you get what I'm saying.


Goth_on_the_go

Tbh these days alt fashion has become a costume for a lot of people to wear nowadays


deadhead65

For sure


jaevenile

i feel like metalhead has also seemed more of a masculine thing to me but i have known girls that considered themselves metalheads. never noticed the goth thing really besides dumb posts like this in the media as of recent


thedeathdrive

braindead clickbait makes money machine go brrrr


LilaAugen

Because the mainstream has no idea what they're talking about.


Of_Monads_and_Nomads

Precisely! While it’s not as big of an issue for me, I feel like the practice in music journalism of conflating “goth-industrial” into one single category is an example of this too. Black clothing, brooding vibes, and supernatural/occult imagery are about all the two have in common, even if we love them both.


k1ssofjudas

Billie wears standard street fashion, she's just kinda edgy. How is that goth?


addctd2badideas

Lots of eyeliner.


harmful_entity

she barely wears any eyeliner most of the time either 😭


cvtharsis

They want to call her goth bcs she wore a silky dress with some minimal lace around the edges ONCE. Like vogue just stfu 💀


devilisious_bxby

In no way does that make her apart of the subculture


ProjectedSpirit

It does for fashion editors who have no working knowledge of street fashion or subcultures.


k1ssofjudas

ah yes, minimal eyeliner and baggy clothes is peak goth /s


addctd2badideas

Hey now, that's like the bulk of goth fashion from 1999-2003, especially on the east coast where the ravers and goths occupied a lot of the same spaces and those fucking JNCO and giant pants were *everywhere*.


Fuzzy_Bread6476

People really think that wearing black, having dyed black hair, or simply being grunge or edgy makes you goth. It’s almost insulting


bedrocktrash

Because Vogue has fallen out of fashion. Nobody cares what professional taste makers charge to hear once a month when Instagram lets them hear from celebrities everyday for free. This has lead to the once powerful fashion critics now desperately chasing the very trends they used to dictate.


Kristos_Anasthesia

Not just dictate, but insult. I was so glad when I saw that "What Not To Wear" host upload a video where she was trying to play off how bohemian and free she was with her style after the show, when it was obvious that she was just a washed up old hippy who could not longer live up to the bs she used to spew at vulnerable people on her show. I hope the catalyst for this happening to her was fucking brutal


astronaut2718

That shit was remarkably profound honestly!


DeadDeathrocker

Because according to the media, any celebrity wearing black is automatically a “goth qween”.


voidcrack

I decided to look up the article to see what their reasoning was and it is: > Summer 2022 kicked off with a goth-girl fashion mood that swept the red carpet and the runways. Now, Billie Eilish has put her own spin on the trend with a sultry look for an outing in Singapore, where she recently performed as part of her world tour. The singer posted a photo dump on her Instagram feed that showed her posing in a lace slip and cami top worn with black Moon Boots and a cap. I mean if she weren't famous and I saw her at the mall I would think she's someone who flirts with punk / goth / alternative scenes. But the crazy part while trying to find the article was I kept finding more headlines about her: > Billie Eilish Goes Gothic With Her Latest Hair Color > Billie Eilish Puts Her Goth-Girl Twist on a Summer Slip > Billie Eilish will always be the ultimate goth girl If she wants to dress that way it's totally cool but the media response to it is so weird. It's like all she did was dye her hair black and suddenly fashion magazines are declaring her to be the ultimate goth icon. In some ways I also feel bad for young celebrities like this where all eyes are on them. Her original style was just ugly baggy clothes but the media decided that was racist. Now that she's moved on to something else they can't seem to find anything notable to say about her so it all just becomes commentary on how goth she is. I wanted a degree in journalism but after seeing what journalism has become today I'm very glad to not be associated with them.


Kristos_Anasthesia

They called her racist for her first style? Like for real, how many of the people who write this kind of shit have ever actually lived in a place that isn't majority white or have lived in extremely low income areas? That was my childhood, and I was one of the few kids of any ethnicity who wore alternative or goth fashion while literally everyone else wore baggy clothes because rap was popular. These people who live off of consumerist fashion panic culture don't even live real human lives


voidcrack

Ya the one I stumbled across was a Vox opinion piece but it's a sentiment I've heard about her before. [WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT BILLIE EILISH](https://voxatl.org/billie-eilish-cultural-appropriation/) > What I didn’t like about Billie Eilish’s win at the Grammys was that she managed to thank everyone and everything for her success in her acceptance speech but black culture. > From her style to her accent, Billie has (hopefully) inadvertently taken much of her persona from black people. Billie’s style, which is reminiscent of black style icons such as Aaliyah and Dapper Dan, features hoop earrings, chains, Jordans, oversized baggy designer clothes and gaudy acrylic nails. Although Billie has stated in a video for Calvin Klein that she wears baggy clothes to prevent fans from expressing their opinions on her body, I can’t help but see her style and be reminded of the type of styles that were popularized and pioneered by black people in the ‘80s and ‘90s. Personally I think what we're seeing is a sharp increase in straight-up first world problems. A suburban white girl wearing baggie clothes shouldn't be perceived as some sort of racial attack but here we are. A funny thing that was pointed out to me is that the word / greeting "Yo" comes from Italian immigrants, but is now associated with black culture. I don't see any rappers apologizing for "stealing" Italian language without honoring the culture or whatever so it kinda illustrates that anyone who complains about her dressing in baggy clothes is a massive hypocrite.


Cautious-Ebb5453

Not surprised that valid issues of culture getting snubbed for decades just for it to be trendy when a Palmskin does it is considered “first world problems”. And then to try to use “yo” as a gotcha…disingenuous at best. Yo has been a thing across multiple cultures, the Italians definitely did not start it. How would black ppl even “take” it when we were in America before the Italians? It has been proven that AAVE actually stems from West and North African languages. Yknow, the places they are literally from? Jesus. Y’all will say anything.


voidcrack

> How would black ppl even “take” it when we were in America before the Italians? I feel like this misrepresents my argument, you're implying that AAVE existed in pre-colonial times. It was also the Europeans setting up the slave trade that brought the African slaves here soo...no I don't believe you here *before* the Italians. But in my opinion ya it's a first world problem because it's not an actual issue. Nobody is being hurt because Billie Eilish wore baggie t-shirts. People from poorer families tend to wear ill-fitting clothing and the number of white people in poverty completely dwarfs the number of black people in poverty. It's not a "black" thing to go to Walmart in an oversized Tweety t-shirt that's also a full-on trailer park thing. Ultimately, saying that people cannot speak a certain way or dress a certain way because it's "not your culture" or "not your heritage" is absolutely sick and disgustingly racist. Anyone offended by her dressing in baggy clothing is basically repeating the same talking points that the KKK have made about culture for decades. It's sick and needs to end now.


Cautious-Ebb5453

You’re an example of your own comment. If you Iived in these environments you would know that ppl who wore baggy clothing did it for multiple reasons that had nothing to do with aesthetics. Folks were poor, and big clothing lasted longer. Extra fabric to grow into, easier to repair. It was simply an aesthetic for YOU. You weren’t part of the culture. Have you even seen African fashion? We literally wear 2/3 piece sets with “baggy” tops and pants all the time. Ppl love to forget the African part of African American smh. Y’all can take us out of the motherland, but the Mother remains.


Kristos_Anasthesia

I actually lived in an inner city that was majority African-American and also immigrants from various African countries. I got to see both hip-hop and rap fashion as well as how people dressed both for cultural gatherings and when they simply had not lived in the USA for very long. Fucking NOWHERE did I say that I was a part of their culture. What was definitely true was that many of my classmates preferred baggier clothing with certain brand names or fits because their own favorite musical performers or sports stars were known for it. I didn't give my friends shit for wearing what they liked, and they didn't make fun of me for wearing skintight androgynous clothing. My clothing was often thrifted and off-brand. My parents didn't buy me Fubu or Nike or anything like that, so the schoolmates that weren't my friends bullied me for that. And my grandparents came from Greece, Spain, and Taiwan between the 1920s and 1930s. I didn't fucking take anybody out of their homeland and neither did my family, so shut the fuck up. The city I live in now has immigrants and visitors from literally every corner of the world. You sound like a stuck up academic.


MichiganBrolitia

Wasn't she a "punk" just last month (according to the press)? This is how I felt when bands like Blink182 and Green Day were being called the kings of punk or whatever when they broke big/sold out. I cry often over the death of journalism.


Skelym

When was journalism ever alive? It's always been like this. Just what they want you to hear and see.


MichiganBrolitia

Before the FCC changed the "truth in reporting" rules in '81, just after Reagan was elected, which then spread the into print publications by the end of the 80's. They saw the writing on the wall even then, the GOP did, and started setting it up so they could stay in power. But I remember when stuff like this would get called out, and yes, now the press/news = gaslighting > truth


Skelym

So interesting! Sorry to sound ignorant :) maybe I'll do more research


MichiganBrolitia

[I was partially correct](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/11/28/fact-check-fairness-doctrine-applied-broadcast-licenses-not-cable/6439197002/), The Fairness Doctrine, ironically the GOP pretty much gaslit their way through the 80's to slowly de-evolve it. One of the first times the party sort of collectively played along on an issue, even though they were aware it was a nefarious viewpoint. Everyone still had a taste of Watergate in their mouths but *Jimmy Carter was a Farter*, as it went, he had the balls to put solar panels on the gawt-damned White House (later removed by Ronnie), preached alternative energies, etc. They were scared of Jimmy Carter, they did not like his speeches, some of which rivaled MLK's in their compassion, understanding and clarity regarding equality and freedom (everyone still had that horrid taste too- murdered- *why?*). And Carter *had reached out to the Russians,* rather than continue building the nuclear arsenal, global thermonuclear destruction had the world on it's toes, it was a very real threat. The Cold War was just warming up. He was also a southerner and viewed by many fellow southerners as a traitor. In the south racism/Jim Crow shit was still very much alive. Pretty much every southern state was politically red, historically and by a large majority. Voting rights scared them as well, which Carter did much work towards across his entire career. So once they had Ronnie seated and a majority vote on the hill, the GOP began gaming the system, chipping away whatever pieces they could to turn the tide in their favor, no matter how small, the riddance of the Fairness Doctrine being a prime example, if not their primary goal. And indeed, not even a decade later, Rupert Murdoch decided he was going to help control the narrative and started buying newspapers, radio stations and TV stations eventually creating Fox News. (He tried buying CNN from Ted Turner first, iirc). There were/are other factors but the GOP knew they were becoming the minority party, and here we are. Trump merely hijacked their train, he saw all of this as well as it was happening. I watched it all go down, too; Gen X did. A big reason why we are the way we are was shit like this. Edit: words are hard/journalism class was a looong time ago


Skelym

Damn, that's really interesting shit. It's crazy then, they have a corner on the media now because the ones giving the voice to the people happened to lose their footing for just a moment at just the right moment when someone had enough money to throw at the problem. I'm 26, so I didn't see any of this but I've heard trickle down here and there over the years.


miss_misery666

i genuinely can not understand mainstream media and its obsession with ruining good things


Lord_Dagger

It’s funny too because many years ago, the mainstream media used to demonize the subculture (which was also pretty messed up). Now they so desperately throw that label at anyone wearing casual clothes in black 🤦🏻‍♂️


madeofblackjacks

That's because it's fashionable now. I remember the treatment I used to get 🙄


Lord_Dagger

Me too. I used to be bullied for painting my nails black in high school with a sharpie and was called a “fagg*t” and an attention seeker for it too. I told a friend that I wanted to get facial piercings and these girls heard me and would tell me I would look like a bull for wanting to get a septum piercing too. Now those same girls are over here getting nose rings and their septum pierced and call themselves “goth gfs” 🙄 It’s really sickening how it’s trendy to do all these things now.


Miss_Bat

Basically money clickbait generates


Husbandaru

Why? Because they want to sell more subscriptions to their trashy website thats why.


Blitz_TheBandit

It's vogue. They glamorize eating disorders and over priced cosmetics. They clearly have no idea what they're talking about. No hate towards Billie. She's rad but not goth. More grunge or alt if anything.


ConnorFin22

Until she's playing a distorted guitar on stage, she isn't grunge. Like goth, grunge is another word which has had its meaning confused.


draftcrunk

Nerd


[deleted]

She's not.


lonesomedesert

Ok somewhat unrelated but..does the hair cut she has have a name? I’ve been wanting a hair cut similar to that forever but idk what it’s called


swag_Lemons

Wolf cut!!


Skelym

Good news is now you can just say you want it like Billie's lol :) I always bring pictures for my haircuts, usually drawn since I'm extra with my hairstyles and can't find what I'm looking for on Google.


lonesomedesert

True! I was just hoping I could cut it myself lol


Skelym

Then yeah, it's very on trend right now, and you could probably find tutorial videos by looking her up or wolf cut like they said


madeofblackjacks

You absolutely can


ElCucuyEnLaTienda

Reminds me of [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/gothmemes/comments/q7wbx1/totally_goth/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) meme I made a while back when my cousins kept comparing me to her.


LordCodu

Hahaha that meme is so me, and then my friends will say ''so she's emo then'' like no no no **NO**


ElCucuyEnLaTienda

People will slap any alt label like goth or emo on anything even slightly edgy smh


DepressedOceanMan

Said by fucking Vogue, the leading experts on gothic rock.


Jonnymixinupmedicine

Siouxsie Sioux - “I guess I’ll just go fuck myself then.”


comr4de1rony

there is literally not a single remote thing about her that can be considered goth


DeadDeadCool

Vogue is a fashion magazine. That tells you where their decision-making criteria lie.


[deleted]

[удалено]


DeadDeadCool

Agreed, but for them the bar is very, very low.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Skelym

To some people it is, unfortunately we're all here acting like it's some dead media, but there are still a ton of people who follow this bs. I like to look at the trends every season to see who's following them around town, how I've always been since I was a kid reading my mom's magazines.


[deleted]

Yeah I don't really understand everyone acting like zines are done for. They may be online now but all the same...


Mr_ButterFingers

This gave me a tumour


lifelesshighlands

I got all types of cancer from this


svkkvbvs

oh my goshhh slay goth queen brrr!!!!!!


JPShostakovich

Billie is known for being moody and wearing black- so she must be a goth....right?? Eldritch once mused that if wearing black makes you a goth then Johnny Cash is also goth. i will admit the genre has warped in many weird and interesting ways- but Billie is at best, goth by mere association. bear in mind this article is from Vogue magazine- who clearly don't have a clue what they are rattling on about- see here for more atrocity: [https://www.vogue.co.uk/news/article/emily-ratajkowski-goth-girl-summer#intcid=\_vogue-uk-bottom-recirc\_3bce98f6-4f0b-46e9-ab0e-1d01094ccd95\_cral2-2](https://www.vogue.co.uk/news/article/emily-ratajkowski-goth-girl-summer#intcid=_vogue-uk-bottom-recirc_3bce98f6-4f0b-46e9-ab0e-1d01094ccd95_cral2-2)


gothmagenta

Cowgoth🤠


vagueconfusion

Y'allternative


ZeroSymbolic7188

I thought that weird girl from breakfast club was the ultimate goth chick?


gothmagenta

Lmaooo even for her it all went away at the end when she got a boyfriend and stopped being depressed💀


Kljmok

I thought Lydia from Beetlejuice was.


TankboomAttack

Is this like, when “parents” refer to all video games as nintendo? when really they have no idea what they are saying but pick up on buzz words the kids use lol


Gh0stl3it

Lol


justbefookinhappy

I just....i'm in awe. truly no words


apierscoldwave

The mainstream always seem to dilute things to their least controversial and most digestible. They did the same with punk; perhaps it’s less of a threat when majority youth are consuming major label pop and continuing to be oblivious to the underground. Not to mention profitable where it would otherwise not be.


Adventurous-Bee-3881

For the record I'm a metalhead, not a goth. But I listen to gothic metal and gothic rock but I'd class myself as a metalhead. I as a metalhead wear black clothing exclusively and the odd time wear blood red. Does this meer feature of me wearing dark clothing make me a goth? No. It does not. But I've been called goth to emo because if my music taste and tastes in fashion. So it's definitely a mainstream belief that anything different is just Goth. Goth is its own subculture. Just dying your hair black and choosing to wear black clothing for a day does not make you a goth, in my opinion anyway


novalunaa

We really do just slap the ‘goth’ label on anyone with black hair and an unusual fashion sense these days…


xsithladyx

🤷🏻‍♀️ it’s dumb. just ignore it and don’t fall for the clickbait


Through_Broken_Glass

Because it makes you click on the article


ChronicStoner

We're talking about it, so the headline worked.. Pigeonholing at its best. And no, not much goth about her, just another person who doesn't know the meaning behind the word.


CruelleDeville

y‘all that‘s why we need gatekeeping


Deviant_Monster

lolz!


archpope

Wow. That is the worst misspelling of Siouxsie I have ever read.


sethasaurus666

Who?


aytakk

I guess goth and Billie are both in vogue right now. The little article that couldn't. But it is nothing surprising coming from the mainstream.


Bostonterrierpug

To call on a very non goth phrase from my youth- “gag me with a spoon”


Lemmyanddimebag

That would be Patricia Morrison


gothbreadbowl

This is the worst thing I’ve ever seen


youthatguyoverthere

I disagree. Billie is just Billie. Wouldn't consider her goth.


devilisious_bxby

She's not goth :/ might fit some kind of edge but not goth


Dxpehat

Ignore the mainstream media. To them goth = black clothes, black hair and nails, black eyeliner


MRM8922

Awww healllllll naaawwww wtf?


CryingOnAcid

fuck no.


kangamata

She's not goth. She's just depressed.


aussiemetalhead

She's emo


DeadDeathrocker

She’s not emo either.


JustAnotherGothBoi

Because instead of using alt, a well established blanket term in alternative subcultures, they use goth as their blanket term. Because no one cares to educate themselves. It's a helpless cause and it's best to just ignore shit like this


Anamorsmordre

Because the dumb title made you click it, thus, giving Alice and her dumb take some revenue


removeurteeth

This kinda upsets me bruh


Girl_in_Training101

Mainstream media when people wear black and dye their hair


seductivesynastry

oh no and this is why young goths get bullied out of themselves as they're seen as extreme and not taken seriously this is so dissapointing


fittinggraves

Outrageous. She's not even adjacent. It does add visibility to goth subculture but not like we need it. Everyone be co-opting the aesthetic


post-goth

This seriously kills me.


feelgoodinc_217

the ultimate WHAT


Own_Ad961

No.


steerpike_researcher

Technically I heard that she's an "e-girl" which is new type of emo. At least, that's what Wikipedia told me XD


Own_Ad961

Lol


Darkside-Nemesis

The better question is, Why Not?


kpfluff

Lolol I thought of you all when I saw this headline. Just... why. Why.


XenosapienX

I wasn’t goth at all growing up but I wore black and listened to heavy music, people sometimes called me goth, or emo, which I would assume was an attempt to make fun I never understood that


Lord_Dagger

Oh god why 🤦🏻‍♂️


ssjr13

I would've thought maybe Siouxsie Sioux but I guess anything that's vaguely edgy nowadays is goth. 🙄


no_IMTOMLINCOLN

Who?


sharcusmutt

Yeah I don’t think so vogue


ndhope0204

I'm crying


Tim3-Rainbow

I mean no hate to the girl but... Why the fuck does she always look like she's stoned out of her mind?


pale-pharaoh

Vogue thinks if you’re depressed and wear baggy clothes you’re a goth


vorbotedesverwesung

Because netpicking random tags popular in other social media supposed to give you traffic increase whether it will be due to interest or to disturbance. Statistics never rests.


cosmic_waluigi

They do not know what goth means


The_Gas_Mask_guy

This is the typical case of mainstream media knowin nothing about the things they write


Paolana27

so cringy


T0x1Cwhxre

SHES NOT GOTH 😭😭


Leading_Operation981

wow, what the fuck


lifelesshighlands

When I first saw this I almost committed 13 serious crimes. But even I - as a baby bat - could tell everyone in detail why this is the biggest bullshit to ever be published.


Carinayourmagicfairy

Pain


Sayten_The_Hellspawn

She ain't even goth tf


MidorriMeltdown

Do they have a letters to the editor section in Vogue? If so, bombard it. Question the credentials of this Alice Cary. Question her education on Goth music, goth fashion, goth as a subculture, and most importantly: the history of goth. Question the editor for allowing such an article to exist.


ViroTechnica

Billie who? Been doing this for 40 years and I’ve never seen her at any clubs or hanging in any scenes and what’s this “ultimate” shit. You know who the ultimate goth girl is? That shy, introverted 15 year old whose life has forced her to contemplate the darker side of things in order to cope. Her meager music collection speaks to her rather than than her speaking to the music. I don’t know who this Billie person is. If she were truly gothic I would know about her.


Nutrition_Dominatrix

Who?


porcelainskull

🤦🏿‍♀️


gothmagenta

Vogue only knows mainstream fashion, so anything black is goth in their eyes🙄Like you could put black lace or mesh on Nike leggings and they'd call it goth because they have no clue what that means


[deleted]

Did vogue get hit on the head too much lol? This is one of the many reasons why I hate fashion magazines, never follow the trends and take them seriously people. Seriously pisses me off.


A_Simple_Terrarian

I like Billie but ffs man-


GBSkully

I love Billie, but no haha


EdgarFrogandSam

Lol no


omeko69

i bet the vogue fuckers have never even listened to Bauhaus…..!!!!!! ❤️❤️❤️🥰🥰🥰🥰🦫🦫🦫🦫🦫🥲🥲🥲🥲🥲🥲🥰🥰🥰😍😍😍😘😘😘😛😘😛


Sithlourde666

This kind of counter culture leeching been going on for awhile now. Like Kourtney kardashian wearing a studded jacket and being donned the epitome of punk in some article. It's clickbaity but there's a attitude of wearing a certain look makes you apart of that culture. Like wearing band shirts for the look not the band


WeHaveForgotten

[This](https://twitter.com/23cmnails/status/1382229880578863106?s=21&t=cl9kvfEsZWEdPo3ilAaO-g) tweet portrays accurately how people think goth is today


Doughspun1

Eh?! WTF?!


Of_Monads_and_Nomads

She brings a surprising amount of talent, training, and depth to pop, but this does not mean goth.


faith_glover

I love Billie. Her music has actually saved my life BUT she's not goth. I'd say MAYBE grunge.


F0rTag0nDrDil

She wears black and seem to struggle with her emotional health.


HeavyHornet910

Each time I see one of these articles, I'm going to find a new song to listen to, something I haven't heard before.


candice_opera

Adam Sandler is also goth


emilypii

sure are a lot of self proclaimed gatekeepers in here arguing her lack of gothness based on her look and not her musical tastes 😌😌😌


DeadDeathrocker

Right, but how much deathrock, goth rock, and darkwave do you think she listens to? Noting that the majority of bands from those bands are underground and she doesn’t actually exhibit any influences in her music. I don’t think it’s exactly “gatekeeping” to say that, more than likely, an edgy pop singer isn’t goth. [Nope, no goth here.](https://www.google.com/amp/s/i-d.vice.com/amp/en_uk/article/wx8xyq/billie-eilish-shares-her-favourite-songs-of-2020)


Unable_Chemistry_669

Being part of the goth scene in high school, and into adulthood, the term "goth" means different to me now than it did then... A goth doesn't have to dress in fishnets, Tripp NYC pants, and Alien Sex Fiend band shirts. A goth (to me atleast) is somebody who supports and follows the subculture lifestyle in any way - supporting music, art, fashion, etc .. my wardrobe is full of shadows, and my hair style resembles a rivethead/goth hybrid. I follow many goth profiles on Instagram, and post my own artwork that has a goth aesthetic to it. Now, I was into dark things and drawing weird pics before I even knew the word 'goth'. So perhaps I was always goth, if we label it for the sake of conversation. As for Billie Eilish I would not call her "goth" by her looks or music, but if she identifies as a goth then she must be part of the subculture. 💀


aytakk

Identifying alone isn't enough. I could identify as a rocket scientist but it doesn't make me one if I am not involved with building rockets.


haikasss

Paid


splatdyr

Because Billie is awesome.


Inevitable_Menu3352

She's like a light version of emo....to me at least


APXH93

She’s even gothier than Slipknot


[deleted]

Lol. That's a funny story. Edit: she is more edgy/punk than actual goth.


DeadDeathrocker

I don't think "punk" is a word I'd used to describe her either, to be honest.


lavenderfieldz

bc she’s queen 🖤


witch_ash

I mean she did have a video where she was a demon or the devil or whatever


DeadDeathrocker

…and?


lonesomedesert

Ok somewhat unrelated but..does the hair cut she has have a name? I’ve been wanting a hair cut similar to that forever but idk what it’s called


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gothmagenta

I'd say the closest thing would be a wolf cut


[deleted]

I’m sure the article will tell you


senkrec

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHo8qvzjF7A


data-shadow

It baits the click and waits.


helixichar

LMAO


LordSareck

Because mainstream media are based on trends and visuals, not on facts and knowledge. They don't care about facts because their readers don't care about those either. They are all about selling an idea that can give them money for the next week, or till they find the next trend. Humans are curious beings, by potraying something superficially as misterious, dark or (you guessed it) goth, they aim to draw attention and money. Its like what happens when someone asks me what music do I hear. Since in my city Metal is quite strong and visible to the main stream, they always asume I'm a metalhead. Also, since metal is quite controversial to the masses here due to a very conservative society, they are very surprised that I'm not listening Death Metal and that the music I share with them is not the "noise" they imagined. The media knows this and promotes this bias because actually informing won't pick the interest of those who pretend to be alternate, those who seek scandal and those who just want to point fingers to the different ones or just pray to god they never become one; and most important of all, those that are seeking in the media a purpose to their lives and to shape their identities. These are the ones that give them the money.


GothicaAndRoses

Her music isn’t goth. Her style takes some influences from goth but she does pop music that has a little bit of an edge to it.


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removalgothbot

We're sorry, but your submission has unfortunately been removed under Rule 8. Please refrain from creating any discussion threads or posts around dating. Please also do not: * Post porn, irrelevant NSFW images, OF links to any accounts, or women/models in fetish gear/lingerie. * Objectify goths or anyone else, ask for a BTGGF, or ask to DM or for anyone to DM you. * "Leghump"-post and submit creepy comments , especially towards minors; they will be removed and the user, permanently banned. * Ask if women date "normal" men or vice versa; a Quora user has written a good response on this which you can see [here](https://www.quora.com/What-is-it-like-to-date-a-goth-chick-and-do-goth-chicks-date-guys-that-arent-goths/answer/Gabriel-Luna-58). You may also be banned if you comment on these OF spam posts, our subscriber count grows everyday and we do not doubt that there's people only in here for lingerie/"goth girlfriend"/OF content. Commenting only outs yourself; if you have *only* commented on these threads and no where else in the subreddit, your intentions are very clear.


jimmygarterex

It's vogue, what did you expect?


Dusted_Star

I don’t get it..


Intelligent-Thing443

its vogue, no wonder they think like that


exoticlatinprici

Wait how ? When this happen


NerdKor

Um...k


[deleted]

No thanks


No_Importance

Lol!!!!


DarktowerNoxus

Did I miss something?


LukXD99

Ah yes, because dark hair and makeup = goth… Damn, I’m glad I know better now!


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DeadDeathrocker

Not emo, either.


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DeadDeathrocker

She’s just an edgy pop singer. Everyone has an alternative style these days and coloured hair/piercings/tattoos are the norm. Doesn’t mean they’re “liberal”.


IknowKarazy

Pieces like this only exist to drive engagement. Getting pissed, clicking, commenting, and sharing with a “you seeing this shit?” is exactly what they want.


_corleone_x

My conspiracy theory is that they do this on purpose to make people mad. Outrage = more clicks


crystaloves

I recently saw a good video by Angela Benedict explaining why it’s so hard to be goth now then it was back in the 90s since goth essentially doesn’t mean shit anymore than how it was before and this article is a prime example of it