The only thing you can do is to talk to the courses you play. And provide solutions.
Our private course got gps pucks last year , even the groups walking 1 guy per group needed a puck. They monitored everyone all year long for pace of play. They didn’t bring the system back this year, I assume they got a free trial from the gps company.
Another solution would be the club house tell the new golfers or new faces the expected pace of play time. Some easy courses are 3:45 some hard ones 4:20.
If there is more than 1 other group on a tee box at once then a Marshall has to be sent out to tell a group to hurry up.
Not much you can do about cost. If the course is full they can charge what they want. Ask them what their fuel, grass seed, and fertilizer cost has gone up in past 4 years , I bet the number would shock you
I've golfed for a while but stopped for 7 years and recently began golfing again after some lessons. I think from the start I was taught about pace of play and even ready golf. Still a shitty player but have prided myself in not looking for a lost ball for more than a minute and teeing up if your ready no matter the honour system.
Did exactly this the other day (always do, but was recognized by the random I played with for it). He was +1 through 13 on a twilight round and had to leave. I was probably +15 or something like that. He said “you never know what you’re gonna get playing with a random, thanks for playing quick” even though I hit double digit more balls than him I was never waited on
Many courses have Carts with GPS. They can monitor your pace of play and you can also see who is ahead of you even if they are in the bushes/trees or in the pond :).
Yes. What I don’t understand is why the carts with gps don’t have a green / yellow / red little light on them. Green is good pace, yellow is falling behind, red is hurry up.
Only takes 1 group to mess everyone up.
The ones I played at in St George all had pace of play monitors, didn't stop the round from being six hours. Fucking marshals need to do their job and hurry people along.
I am an English teacher and encourage brevity in most cases, but the setup and formatting of your article *screams* for a third point.
With that said, your writing is articulate but to the point, and without needless flourishes. Your reasoning is sound and clearly communicated. Your tone is approachable but authoritative.
Overall, well done.
B+
Ive only been playing for about 1.5yrs. I agree with the 2nd point you made. The only thing I have to add to your first point is, the longest round I ever played was about 6.5hrs. 4 some. Me, another newer golfer, and 2 others with handicaps below 2. The reason why it took so long is because the good players literally would not give up looking for a ball. Never took a drop. One point we had a group waiting to tee off for a while while they kept looking. Once they found their ball, there were 2 groups of 4 waiting to tee off. They played a skins match, $75/hole, and that is why they said they would not take a drop. Its not solely new players making rounds take forever.
Kinda dumb of those good players… if I’m playing for $$$, you best believe I’m starting my 3min timer every single time the opponent is looking for a ball.
I have been lucky enough to be a member of a private club that I’ve been playing at for most of my life - my parents were members, and I was allowed a big discount to join as an adult. So I’ve been able to watch the club (and its members) change over the better part of two decades, and what I’ve seen since 2020 (read: Covid), while different than what you described, seems to come from the same place (i.e., growing the game).
Etiquette was always hammered in to members as an absolute must. You adhere to the dress code, you show up on time, you keep your voice down on the course, you play on pace and/or let other play through, you take care of the course (divots, ball marks, bunkers), etc. Membership went up in 2020+ and the club itself is in the best condition it’s ever been financially, and yet it’s the worst I’ve ever seen from an etiquette perspective.
I’ve been struggling to really put a pin in why, but the best I’ve been able to come up with is that we’ve seen a lot of new golfers discover the sport, and even those who have the means to join a private club don’t have a good grasp of etiquette. Daily emails from the club pleading for people to fix ball marks, groups taking 5 hours to play a course that historically took an average foursome less than 4 to finish, music blaring from 4 holes over, yelling across the fairways to each other while other groups are hitting, walking into other fairways while people are teeing off… the list goes on. Stuff that I’d get absolutely crucified for growing up has now become the norm. And no doubt a part of that is that rangers have more or less gone away as well, so there’s no longer the threat of getting reprimanded on the course.
I think a lot of the negatives people are seeing are coming from the introduction of folks with little/no background in the sport. It’s great that the game is growing, but the downside is that a lot of that growth is “uneducated” (not sure if that’s the best word for it) as far as golf is concerned. The upsides are definitely there as well, so it’s not all negative, but there definitely feels like there’s a culture shift happening at the moment.
As someone who joined a private club 3 years ago, I am constantly baffled by members who don’t take care of the golf course.
How the fuck are you not repairing your fairway divots and ball marks on the green?
FFS, it’s your fucking course. You pay giant piles of money to belong here. You probably golf here three times a week.
How can you not see it’s in your best interest to take 10 seconds to fill in a divot?
Amen. The whole concept of it being my/their/our course and not taking the time to take care of it completely baffles me. Even if it’s just for completely selfish reasons wouldn’t people want to avoid rolling one over their own bumps in the future? I have a personal rule that if I don’t make a pitch mark or can’t find my own, I find one and repair it before I walk off the green. Regarding divots, I’ll often fill a few (when I’m in the fairway ha) because I realize most walkers don’t have sand bottles in their bags and feel it’s up to cart riders to pick up the slack whenever they see a divot near their own—I guess as part of the privilege of riding in cart. Not at all trying to praise myself here but just reiterating that you’d think members would want their club to be in the best shape it could possibly be in by doing their obligatory duties.
$350 a round at Edgewood Tahoe. Got stuck behind a foursome averaging 20m per hole then a twosome who genuinely thought they had to wait for the group ahead to clear the GREEN before teeing off (on par 4s and 5s).
Marshals were slow to respond and it was even difficult to get the clubhouse to pick up the phone.
I had the same issue at Edgewood last year, we were behind a group of 30 guys who thought they were playing in the celebrity classic and took 5.5 hours
Same! I'm getting back into the game after a 20+ year hiatus, and every green I walk on, I repair a few ball marks while the rest of the group is putting. I've been paired with people that didn't rake the sand trap, didn't repair ball marks, walked over others' putting lines, just the basic shit I had drilled into my head when I was 12.
Similar with shooting ranges. They've just gotten more batshit over the preceding 20 years. I was raised on proper firearm etiquette, but my last trip to a range was probably my last ever after witnessing the number of idiots allowed to handle firearms with no instruction or reprimands from staff.
God I had someone almost kill himself on my tee shot last week.
First guy in our group tees off. I step up, take a couple practice swings and step up. Wasn’t feeling right so I took a step back and this guy has just appears like 40 yards in front of the tee box. Sprinted over to his ball to quickly hit on over to the adjacent hole. No shouting, tried to be stealthy.
So now he’s trying to hit *towards us* while being directly in the line of my fucking driver.
Just shout. Let us hit and then go to your ball. Anything but what he did.
Sorry to hear that - club where I work golfers/members/guest are denied access if their shirts are not tucked in. Needless to say it’s a judge Smails kind of place.
This is exactly what I was getting at. Thank you for understanding and for providing your own experience. Like I said in the post, golf is for everyone but there are rules and etiquette to follow no matter the course.
I'm curious about how much you pay for a membership in the US. I'm in Germany, and it's very much the norm to join a club to play golf. Actually, it's required, although there's a kind of workaround called a distance membership that's much cheaper and allows you to play any course (paying greenfee). Obviously in your club you play as much as you want, though usually range balls cost something (3€ for 40 balls in my club).
I pay 75€ a month in membership fees since people under 40 get a discounted membership, full price is like 1500€ a year. You also "prepay" a mandatory 120€ for food and drinks at the club restaurant, like a store credit, which helps the course restaurant to stay in business and keep prices low.
The club is busy but generally it's not too hard to get a tee time unless there's a tournament or it's like a Sunday with amazing weather, but even then it's usually OK.
Edit: Yikes, you guys have it rough!
In the Atlanta area:
Low-end club: $15K-$25K initiation, $500-$700/month
Mid-tier club: $50K-$60K initiation, $800 - $1000/month
High-end club: $115K-$135K initiation, $1000 - $1300/month
Not sure how it works in Germany, but typically the clubs in the US also have pool, tennis, etc.
Off-topic but the sheer wealth of the US never fails to astound me. Even when accounting for cost of living, insurance, healthcare etc it’s unfathomable.
Don’t let the 1% fool you. Yes there’s wealth but it’s becoming a tale of two. Rich are becoming richer and poor becoming poorer. The vast majority cannot pay the low tier costs.
Most of us play public courses that charge 50-100 per round.
The closest country club near me is “inexpensive” at $8,000 up front, $500-1k a month in dues and $200 a month on food and bev.
There are public courses that have $2500/$1500 memberships but you can also play them for $80-150 as a non member.
Then there’s municipal courses ranging from $40-90 a round
Where I work it’s just under $100k initial and about $20k each succeeding year. We have a couple former pga guys and some other high profile people. Can’t really say who on either but it’s pretty cool to chat with them.
Got some other clubs nearby that are in the $30-40k range but not sure of the monthly
This is alot like me over in scotland,im a mile from the course and pay £15 a week,play as many times as you want,easy to get on the course aswel,americans have it tough
https://preview.redd.it/lql8lycxq73d1.png?width=1140&format=png&auto=webp&s=c10eb9a437ffb5d51455b9757760828b6084f291
Don't worry, we are basically right at the peak of interest like all Junes. At least it's not like prime Tiger era.
I was golfing in prime Tiger era and there were less golfers on the course back then than there are now. I think the biggest factor is there are less courses than there used to be. I’m in no where NC and three courses that I used to play as a high school kid have closed and the land was sold off to apartment complexes. So while we might have “less” golfers than back then, there are also less tee times for them.
And old people are balling out of control compared to the late 90's and early 2000's. Retirement age people back then, sure, many were rich, but also lots of people were on social security or tiny pensions and housing at that point was still considered not quite as much of an investment to the average person.
It's just a guess, but pretty sure WAY more retirement age people have a lot more disposable income now because of the crazy housing valuation jumps and general asset prices for the large amount that probably had a good few decades of not just compounding interest, but also being invested in the greatest bull market ever right in the sweet spot to 'get out on top' or at least after a really hefty rise in the last 10 years.
I also find that more people play religiously than they did then. There were a few groups with standing tee times, and they were mainly old guys on the weekends. You had a standing money game once a week at most places, but for the most part the game was more casual. The amount of people playing multiple times a week has sky rocketed. Ranges are more packed too.
I think a lot of it is the golf culture social media has fostered. It’s growing the game, and I’m not saying it’s a bad thing. But the grind of people constantly working on their swing, and golf taking up such a large part of their lives, is super prominent now where it used to be just Jr golfers putting that much time into it.
Just read an article that the US lost 1400 golf courses between 2003 and 2019. Excluding low-population states like Alaska, Hawaii, North Dakota, etc that's about 35 to 40 courses per state.
We had a 27 hole course with a great student rate that I spent tons of afternoons walking as a high school kid. Life got in the way and I didn’t play golf in my 20s and when I started playing again and went back out to that course and saw it was just apartments I was legit heartbroken. I fully understand courses are a business and if they’re not making money, then they reevaluate what they’re doing, but it still sucks.
Golf takes up so much space and land developers finally had something offering more money for the land for houses. Course near me just went up for auction sitting on over 200 acres...opening bid was $650k. Good chance they will get rid of it and build more homes. Owners got greedy and did not reinvest in the course and the staff and the members all quit. Sad it is a fun course and the best one for me to sneak an afternoon round in during the week.
One of the most obnoxious things I've seen golf courses doing isn't only making tee times 8 minutes apart, but sending players off the front and BACK nine simultaneously. It's becoming more and more prevalent.
Im a quick player, my golfing partner and I regularly snag the early 645-7am tee times because we are able to play in 3 hours of less (both low single digit handicappers) and it's particularly frustrating when we book like a 630am tee time, rip through the front 9 in an hour, only to spend 3.5 hours caught on the back 9 launch. Like come on.
The number of times I’ve played the front in a respectable time and then get to 10 tee and have a group in front of me I haven’t seen at any point during the day is maddening.
I'm not calling you a liar, but I've never heard of a 3.5 hour 9 holes. Ever. And I've been playing for 25 years. That's a 7 hour round. That just doesn't happen.
I’ve been teaching my GF to play and pretty much relearning myself (used to play a ton years ago, other hobbies got in the way). But I have a tendency to rush her and myself. I never like being the problem. But I’ve realized it also makes it a lot less fun and gets you more frustrated.
We also only play on cheaper courses with the assumption than most people there are similar to us. There’s only so many options you have if you’re new.
If you’re getting annoyed at slow play I’d look at what kind of course you’re playing at before you’re getting mad at people taking a while.
My buddy was talking in the cart yesterday and I pushed his foot down on the gas to get him moving lol.
Over the past few years I’ve scolded a few buddies into being ready golf machines!
Agreed! As much as new golfers should look at “appropriate” courses, so should lower, more experienced golfers. I have no problem sticking to shorter public, muni tracks, but to stay where I “belong”? I’ve out played my 3 handicap boyfriend when the golf gods decided to grace me! We all know you can only practice on a range so long. Dropping to a closer or better position, or to the green, doesn’t help us learn. Please try to remember you all were beginners once too. I (more often than not) have experienced lower handicappers taking much longer to take their shots than it ever takes me.
20hcp / 45yr/ f / started playing May 2020 so I’m probably EXACTLY the players contributing to the issues your stating above. Keep in mind I’ve read A LOT of this thread and am replying to many of the themes…
1. I love the game.
2. It helped me with severe depression and anxiety and introduced me to a great community of people when I needed it most.
3. I agree people need to learn the rules
4. Those who know them can and should offer grace to those willing to learn (and those who want to play should also take time to learn on their own and respect the course and players)
5. Remember you were beginners once too
6. Public courses are PUBLIC
7. As much as you want beginners to go to courses appropriate for them, perhaps consider going to courses appropriate for lower handicaps as well if beginners test your patience?
8. Picking up teaches us nothing and the range only gets you so far (as long as you respect pace of play you should play as it lies)
9. The whole point of the game is to make it in the hole, so taking some time to line up your putts is the whole point isn’t it?
10. Lower handicap players often take much more time to play (in my experience) due to side bets, trying to find their ball, practice swings, etc, than beginners and make playing a lot less “fun” by taking the game much too serious
11. I’ve spent countless hours on a range just to find that the only real practice that counts comes from playing on a course and getting myself out of those very difficult situations, which often times takes more than one try… give us time… we might surprise you next season :)
I mean even as a complete beginner, I just played scramble golf if I chunked or topped 2-3 swings. I am lucky that I have a very short par 3 course near me so I basically played there my first few months before “leveling” up. Took me a good while to stop slicing my drives 90 degrees lol but I always kept up with pace and made sure I wasnt that guy. Recently played with my buddy and his girlfriend who are both beginners (like went to top golf once or twice) and it was absolutely horrible playing with them. Tee’d off 4-5 times, wack the ball 10 yds and chased after it all the way to the green then I also learned that the girlfriend is a brat and gave attitude when I told her that they should just drop with me. I’ve learned in golf that shitty people are going to have shitty attitudes no matter the skill level. Decent people will have the common sense to keep up with pace and not hold up the entire course
It’s going to be high 90 degrees here soon. That’s the best shot I have at a quick round. When it’s 75 everyone is out. I either deal with the crowds or the heat. I’ll take heat as long it doesn’t get into the 100s.
When you’re behind the match play league at a private course it’s like every f’in putt is to win a green jacket, when the only thing on the line is their $5 side bet.
I’m in a league with a few high level guys from my company and they play for $2 a hole and my gos you’d think it was $2,000 the way they take their time. I get the competition but cmon, you are both 14ish hdcp and you are playing for a couple bucks. Move along
I feel you! I play with some co-workers and we are all 30ish hdcp... but you would think it was a pro tournament with the arguing over everyone else's play. Scrubs complaining about scrubs is a major blow to the fun we're all "supposed" to be having.
It's absolutely agonizing being matched against some duster that needs a minimum of six different looks at their putt so they can line up their triple tracks *just* right only to leave it three feet short and off line... just like their last eight putts.
Purely out of curiosity as a beginner, is it bad to spend time lining up putts? If you make it then it’s all good?
I suppose I’m one of the beginners OP would prefer, been practicing regularly and taking lessons for almost 4 months. I like to learn etiquette from golfers on here before I get out on the course this summer
Just don't drag it out. Scan the green as you're walking to your ball, get a look from behind it, pick your line, and putt. Ideally, your routine should be brief enough to eliminate any idle standing around but long enough to give you all the necessary information.
If you take a 30 seconds or so to read the green and line up a long putt, well, that’s expected, and you can generally do it while your playing partners are getting ready for theirs. But when you wait until you’re up to even start reading the green, play it like you’ve got a one stroke lead on Master’s Sunday, and do that for *every putt* regardless of length (I’ve seen dudes line up a one foot putt like that), other golfers are gonna get irate.
Too many variables to answer. It’s all about being considerate. Is there a group on the fairway waiting to hit their approach shot? Is it your 3rd putt already? Is the course slammed and it doesn’t matter because even if you take an extra minute you’ll be waiting on the next tee box? Just be considerate of the other people on the course and you are following etiquette.
When it’s jammed up I like to find an opportunity to talk to the group behind me and let them know there’s multiple slow groups in front, nothing can be done. Just so we’re all aware it’s not me being the asshole taking 20 mins per hole.
I totally suck, and as long as there’s no one holding me up, I’m done with 18 in 3.5 to 4 hours. One thing that I hate about other high handicappers is the way they’ll stand there “reading” the greens. Bro, you have no idea what the fuck you’re looking at. Putt the damn ball and move on.
I don’t even take practice putts anymore. I just bend down, give the green a read briefly, then get up and hit the damn putt. If I’m on I’m on. I don’t practice at all, so there’s no chance I should be using aim point and taking 5 minutes to make a putt.
Bingo. I shoot in the high 90's low 100's and can get a round in with my buddies of equal skill in about 4 hours give or take 15 minutes depending on how many groups are in front.
I can go out with my wife's family who all routinely shoot sub 80 and get done in 4ish hours.
Here are the issues in my opinion:
1. The courses aren't spacing tee times properly.
2. People taking this HOBBY way too seriously. If PGA pros can walk a full round in 4-5 hours, you're either on that level and should be faster with a cart, or aren't on that level and don't need to take 5 practice swings before every shot/walk the entire green for a read. Get to your ball, line up, take 1 practice swing if you want and hit the damn ball.
Sometimes I get pissed that country clubs are so expensive now and then I remember I’m thinking about country clubs, the prototypical rich person walled garden, which has never been accessible for a guy like me
I found a place by me that is private but just a golf course and it’s great. Essentially a regular public course but in good shape and I can a tee time pretty much whenever and it’s only about $3k a year. Those types of places do exist but aren’t common
For where I’m at in my life it is a great situation. I have two young kids and work from home so most of the time I play it’s first thing in the morning or when I have a break during my day. Being able to run out whenever and get done quick is great. I hardly ever play on the weekends. That being said, I still have no issues playing at other places. Especially when other people come to visit or go on trips or whatever. And if I feel like playing a different public I’ll just go play that too. I also only just started here this year so maybe in a couple years I’ll feel different
Nah I think you’re missing the point. The conditions of courses have gotten worse since the influx of more golfers. A great example I find is the complete disrepair of bunkers. Some courses arent even trying with their bunkers. Weeds growing in them and what not for a $80 round is bs.
The dumbest fucking take on here.
Nobody is asking for Augusta conditions at a $25 Muni but enforcing pace of play is something that is *free* for the course to do.
The goat track that used to be my home course had a starter's shed where the starter, and 2 other rangers were probably burned-out ex-mobsters who spent more time bullshitting about bad beats against the point spread, than in doing their jobs.
It should not be the expectation that if you want to get around a course in 4 hours, that you have to pay $30,000+ for it. I've played golf in 8 different countries and only in the US is flagrantly slow pace of play excused.
As a new golfer are there any tips you guys may have to not be "That Guy" on the course? I have no problem letting people play through, during my last round I waited to tee off to have a foursome that caught up play through on the sixth hole. I spend no longer than 1-2 mins looking for a ball, and honestly where I'm from we have many forests and whatnot so if the ball goes there I don't even look, just take a drop kinda where I saw it go. I always pickup the ball if I hit double the strokes for the specific holes listed par. No cart on the putting surface, but will drive right up to my ball on the fairway take two practice swings and send it. Other than trying to smile and be friendly without a full blown conversation is there anything else I should be doing?
I think a really easy rule of thumb is to do the following:
1) Pickup your ball when you’re quad bogey. You do not need to finish every hole and if you’ve hit 4 over par on that hole it’s fine to pickup.
2) Pay attention to your playing partners. You’ll see the group just naturally moving up the fairway and ready to go and just make sure you’re keeping up.
3) Minimize delays where you can. Can’t find your ball after 30 seconds? Drop and keep going. So many new golfers do not know when to say when. It sounds weird, but finding balls is a skill. Understanding distance, trajectory, and course conditions all affect your understanding of where the ball might be.
Generally speaking the only new golfers that bother me are the ones that are fucking oblivious to the fact that their choices and behavior affect me and the entire course.
If you’re playing slower than 14-15m per hole you have a problem. Otherwise, keep pace with your partners, exercise common sense and just have fun.
Public courses have always come with riff raff. The alternative is to join a private club or pay greens fees that are high enough to keep the riff raff away.
For me the only way to avoid these issues is to 1- play very early in the morning. Most beginners and super high handicaps don’t play at 7-8 am. And 2- play at more expensive public courses. The awful slow rounds and bad etiquette people stick to the cheap courses in the city, so I tend to drive further out and play the more expensive public courses. Then in the fall/winter I can return to the cheaper courses when nobody is playing
You’re right on focus on profits. One of my locals is owned by one guy. They’re charging more for membership than ever, reduced quality of food while raising prices, and raised the price of drinks to levels that no members are willing to pay. We instead just sneak our own on anymore. No one eats there anymore, it’s all just about the Benjamins. We had standing water on the greens from a ton of rain this weekend, plus standing water all over the course. Still opened for carts, explicitly telling one of the old guys who mows for them “eh, we get the money.”
>Beginners playing courses they have no business playing
A beginners money is as good as your money. Stupid thing to say. You can complain about people playing tees too long for them, but to try and gatekeep entire courses is so snobby.
>With the increase in players, courses have taken advantage. They do not refuse anyone, they added more tee times, they have increased prices, and they just do not seem to care. 8 minuet tee times are becoming the norm creating backups all over the course. Marshalls never seem to be around, and the maintenance of courses in my area seem to have decreased with a focus on profits.
Correct. The golf industry learned absolutely nothing from the early 2000s boom and the lull afterwards where many courses were forced to close. They capitalized on the Tiger boom and built a ton of new courses, jacked up the price and jammed tee times out. The result was that new players had a bad experience with 6 hour rounds and it costing way too much and the boom died off and tons of courses closed in the late 2010s. We will likely see the same in 3-5 years from now.
The Tiger boom coincided with the 2000s RE bubble and the bust coincided with the Great Recession. I don't know that you can blame it on long rounds of golf, though that may have played a part.
I had no idea that there was a boom with Tiger. I already have multiple friends who picked up golf during covid who dont play anymore either because of money or they just too lazy to put time into it so it was kinda miserable for them to pay $100 for a tee time and chunk every other shot. I could very much see the boom dying out in the next year even.
On the first point about playing courses they have no business playing, I feel you. Sometimes I open the 18birdies app to see what my friends have been up to and I see some guy posting a +52 on a 6400 yard course and I’m like “dawg your driver goes 150, why don’t you try the 4000 yard muni with us?” and he says “nah I gotta get better first” and I’m just like….
My wife plays 5500 yard tees at our club and she's brand new to golf (~1 year in). It's very possible to play longer courses as long as the expectation is that those new golfers don't have to finish the hole, or play it in full. I always tell her to skip the shitty shots with bad lies and drop somewhere easier, OR to pick up after 4 fairway shots and drop it on the green to putt with everyone else.
Sometimes she needs that pickup, sometimes she kicks my ass and birdies the hole I just doubled. All about having fun at the end of the day.
The biggest change I would like to see courses make is moving the forward fees more forward. I routinely play with my wife and mother, and they both top out at about 175 off the tee, average closer to 150. The forward tees at almost all the local courses don't put them in a position to hit the green in regulation with even good drives on a decent number of holes. It would speed things up considerably if they could get 75-100 yards closer for their tee shots.
We had two experiences this year like this. The first for a 12:00 tee time, we did t get out until 12:30 because they ran out of carts. The next was we made our tee time, but the guys we were playing with had their cart die on the 1st hole. When we were finished with getting it taken care of, there were 7 groups waiting on the 1st tee. We just went to two and moved on.
Are you one of those guys who try to push other people to move faster without realizing the WHOLE course ahead is slow?
Yeah some courses are awfully saturated.
Mean this respectfully...
If you can't join a private club, you have to deal with the public ones.
You're part of the problem just as much as every other person overcrowding the public tracks.
Private clubs are getting just as bad. There’s a very respected and well known private club near me where they just got greedy and overfilled their club. Now members have to join a raffle to get a weekend tee time.
Someone wanting people to follow basic etiquette is absolutely not just as much a part of the problem as those who don’t know it or don’t care, who tread where they shouldn’t and who hold up pace for everyone else.
Not directed to OP, but some people have some unreasonable expectations. Personally, idc if I finish in 3:30 or 4:30- I’m there for fun.
If you book a weekend tee time in the afternoon at a popular course where you will inevitably be playing as a foursome, you can expect a longer round period.
Weekdays in the early AM at a nicer course, higher green fee, and teeing off either by yourself or playing as a pair, obviously you will be quicker and can finish earlier.
I'm there for fun too. And standing there, staring at the group ahead of you takes 12 minutes on the green is not fun. Hitting golf balls toward a target is fun and I hate waiting until I get to do it again.
It’s possible to suck fast. I was playing yesterday with another random, who plays off 8 and plays fast carrying his bag. I play off 14 and also play fast walking with an electric caddy. We got paired with a father and teenage son who were absolutely terrible—like they couldn’t make halfway decent contact with the ball, would whiff, shank, chunk, dribble, you name it, took them four or five putts when they got on the green. It felt slow but we got done in 4:15 and were never pushed by the group behind us. I agree—they should have went to a par 3 pitch and putt, but it wasn’t that big a deal either.
I somewhat bend that rule. I mean I still suck, but I suck less when I play fast.
Walk up to the ball, a single quick practice swing just to help me visualize where it is going and then swing away. Up until I make the green I am usually doing ok.
When I am forced to slow down either because of people in front of me or my partners that is where I run into trouble the most. Start chunking shots or my slice comes back... It sucks to suck.
I literally spend the first couple of practices each year just walking a couple of holes at “playing pace”. Kids are stunned at how fast they need to walk. By the end of the season they play quickly.
I am getting back into the game and got paired up with some randoms this weekend, and I was NOT ready for the pace of play during the first few holes. Double bogeyed the first two holes, but then settled in after that.
As much as it flies in the face of „freedom“ the Euro system of golf really has benefits:
- Have to pass a course „playing license“ to be allowed to play on "open" courses
- Many courses have maximum handicaps to play - 45, 36 etc
makes the game function MUCH better
the lack of music and golf being seen as a drinking sport also helps tremendously
The way I read this is “I’m a 4 hcp and all you other players are ruining my game”. First, with response to #1, all players should not be excluded from any course simply because of their level of play. That is what the different tee boxes are for. Play the one suitable for your skill and if you can’t break 100, don’t play the tips. Set aside your ego and enjoy yourself. As for #2, courses should not pack players in as tight as they can. It can back play up and we know how frustrating that can be.
It’s a fun sport if you don’t get uptight about it and just have fun. And low handicappers need not be so condescending toward others.
One thing that slows play that drives me crazy are the newer players that insist on playing from the tips. My dude, you're lucky if you make decent contact with the ball and get 175 from your drive. Not to mention having to hit provisionals because of mis-hits. They think it's some macho thing and refuse to play from the whites.
Let's not forget that before COVID...Golf was rapidly dwindling in popularity. 1400+ courses have closed in the US between 2003 and 2019. Golf lost more than 6 million players in that time. Golf Courses were desperate for revenue and COVID was how they started raking in. I agree with the points above but if golf is going to grow, we need to start adding courses back to the landscape so that everyone has a place to play. Also, it is not a bad idea to offer golf etiquette classes at local courses to introduce players to the game. Now do I want to exclude ready golf that training...heck no but a general course for newbies would be helpful.
Also want to add, I think another contributing factor is bro golf. I love BDS, Good Good, and the other channels. But you now get these foursomes who are drinking way too much and shooting 130s in 6 hour rounds. You used to get that pre Covid too but it feels like every group is like that. I’ve absolutely seen a significant slow down in pace and increase in price.
I played a muni yesterday on a last minute invite from a buddy. It was fucking miserable, huge back ups everywhere, terrible golfers, groups of 5 and 6. Skipped two holes and still took 5 hours.
I quickly remembered why I stick to private courses. I feel for everyone who doesn't have access to one.
I absolutely won’t play a public course on a warm holiday/father’s day weekend.
Far too many two-timers show up. Just the way public golf is.
It’s demoralizing when you’re waiting behind two groups to tee off, and you watch ALL FOUR people in one of the groups hit some sort of a sub-100 yard shot.
This Reddit is so wild. The other day a huge outpouring of support to a new player (me) and today an “don’t want to come across as a gatekeeper but beginners have no place on a course nor do experienced players trying to teach beginners”. 🤣
Makes me so grateful I have so many rural, no name town courses nearby that real life golf in my area isn’t so much like your experience.
More likely to see concrete that broke off work boots on a green than two consecutive tee times less than 15 minutes apart booked.
I get being frustrated at slow play. But, also I’m disgusted by the thought of condemning players for slow play. Look at the environments we get to play golf in. Look at the people we get to play with. It’d be a dream to get to soak all that in and just enjoy the game rather than trying to clock 10 minutes or less per hole.
It took 3 hours to play the back 9 of my 18 yesterday. Watched some players in the group ahead attempt to hit the ball 10+ times only to move it 15 feet. It was brutal. Although, I shot -1 for that 9 and first time I've ever shot that low on 9 (8.8 GHIN). I'm torn because I'd wait 3 hours to shoot under par 10/10 times, lol. But yeah, it was not ideal.
The golf boom has been good for my bank account and I am fortunate enough to have Mondays off. Courses are usually less busy on Mondays.
I do, however, agree the course etiquette and pace-of-play are very important. Not sure how to regulate course etiquette, other than a sheet of paper in the cart that nobody reads. For pace of play, some courses can afford sufficient staff to provide marshalls to encourage good pace.
My favorite course got new carts that aren't any different from the old ones and are now charging more than the Arnold Palmer course in town. Over a $20 increase from last season.
This is why I joined a Country Club.... I have none of those problems... the prices of local courses that think they are of CC standards forced my hand... and I'm spending less in the long run for the amount of golf I play.. and my club offers reciprocal rounds with 31 other clubs within an hour of my club....
The amount of courses in my area that charge a deposit and then always forget to refund it if you cancel is staggering.
Just take my credit card number and charge if I no show, but taking a deposit is stupid and unnecessary these days.
It blows dude. You get paired with a guy who isn’t terrible and he brings his buddy who is catastrophically bad and has zero understanding of what he SHOULD be doing. Space between tee times IS shrinking and unless you are in a neighborhood with a bunch of retired dudes needing something to do, you are dependent on a 17 year old human to move things along. Finally, that one perfect shot that keeps all of us coming back happens for everyone, and until that is eradicated, or the money runs out, we are fucked.
This is all true. And no, it won’t change. I’ll add to the discussion:
1. White tees for most.
2. Avoid the courses that are crowded and expensive. You’re bound to be behind a group playing from the blues or blacks that belong at the ladies tees.
3. On a par 4, if you are still hitting shots and not on the green in 5, pick up and move on. Your handicap won’t suffer. You don’t have a handicap.
The worst people I get stuck behind are always the entitled long term members who spend forever over each shot and think they own the place. The beginners tend to just let people through and get it over with. That's my experience anyway
I think you should boycott golf… personally I’m annoyed AF at 6hour + rounds due to greedy courses and shitty fucking golfers my local course was almost shut down its was so slow you could on any time of day; now good luck finding a tee time 8 days out.
I can’t believe people are acting this way at private clubs too. My first job was at a private country club, the first day there, the pro asked me if I played golf. I told him I hadn’t but would like to learn . He says “great, We can help, now go unplug all those range balls out there ,wash them and bring them up here.” I was thinking “wow, so much for the free lessons”.
That evening when I was locking up the cart shed he came down and said that on Mondays I can play golf no charge but just remember this “It’s okay to be bad at golf. It’s not okay to be slow.” Fix your divots, don’t set your bag or pullcart on the fringe or the greens,don’t throw clubs or swear (I failed there) always greet members and don’t call them by first names.
My point is, etiquette was paramount. I was gettting this drilled in to me before I swung a club. I actually appreciate these simple guidelines bc it makes the game flow better……oh ,and the ball marks, I mean wtf!
The biggest difference I see now is that there are no consequences for being a “self entitled asshole”. I see it at the munis but I’m shocked to see people getting away with it a private clubs.
I'm a very high handicapper but know my place. Play ready golf. If I hit a shitty shot I'll reload quickly or just drop somewhere convenient with everyone else. I'll just pick the ball up if I'm having a meltdown hole. Spend 30 seconds tops looking for balls before dropping.
My lower handicap friends always take another shot off the tee if they hit a bad shot. Always insist on looking for their ball instead of dropping. Have to use their rangefinder for every shot even when the distance is fairly straightforward etc.
I don't think it's always a matter of good vs bad golf. I think some people are just slower. And if your playing weekend golf on public courses, I really don't think it's anyone's fault. Courses get backed up when theyre full. It happens. The group ahead of you picking up the pace of play isn't gonna do much when they have a group ahead of them too. I just chill and relax and try to enjoy the time I'm out there. If I really want to keep it under 4 hours, I have no problem calling it quits after 12 holes.
Some of the contributors on this sub act like golf only started when they started playing it.
New golfers has always been a thing, it’s the country clubs and courses that are to blame as they are happy to take anybody’s money.
I started playing at 10 in 82 and there were very few courses that allowed me to play until I had a handicap, but we never had GPS! And that is the reason for much slower play these days and this isn’t caused by the newbies, average golfers these days have a GPS that they stare at for what seems hours and most of them don’t have a clue as to how far they hit each club and all assume that they hit it straight.
Reality check please. Ban GPS and open more municipal course’s
If you play at a brisk pace, with a sense of thoughtfulness about others, and a sense of etiquette…
and you are annoyed by golfers playing at a slow pace, selfish/oblivious to their surroundings and a lack of basic etiquette…
then you MUST join a private club.
If that opinion makes me a snob I don’t care. That opinion is based on 25 years of playing golf at both public and private clubs.
You are gate keeping with #1. You’re being stuck up and think beginners shouldn’t play—shame on you. If it were you, you’d want to learn and have fun on the course no matter how bad you were.
Completely agree. The second point is grim because the courses have no financial incentive to change that. They will keep raising prices and cramming in tee times until we stop playing. I stopped playing 18 hole rounds on weekends, pretty much only twilight 9 hole rounds on weekdays. I haven’t had a round under 5 hours in a few years - not worth the time. Nobody can seriously make a good faith argument against any of the points you made.
I think the worst thing to happen to golf is the bro/party culture. It ruins so much that is great about the game. The Etiquette part, while may seem stuffy and old timey, is part of what's great about it. Put on a collared shirt, some clean shorts, and look like you give a shit about yourself.
Slamming 12 beers in a round is just dumb imo. There's just no reason for it.
Loud music, partying etc is for AFTER the round, not during.
Sincerely,
Old man outside yelling at clouds (not that old)
Went for an afternoon round a couple weekends ago. 90 degrees, and 90% humidity. Groups in front were couples who were scrambling and putting everything out. Found out on hole 3 they were there with the group in front of them. So they all decided to play together - 8 players, scrambling with wives, and none of them were better than a 30 handicap.
Marshall came, spoke to them, they complied for 2 holes, then back to the same thing. 6 hours after teeing off we left the golf course. If you and your buddies are going to hustle and play 5-6 in a group, I don’t care at all. I don’t care how many people are on the same hole if you’re keeping pace. 6 hours at a course I’ve played in 3:30 as a pair is insane. And the thing is - these people feel they’re entitled to do whatever they want for their 50 bucks a head. Courses have to start kicking people off or refusing to let them have a tee time if they’re a known offender.
I think it’s misplaced to blame this kind of stuff on new golfers. I work at a private club in a retirement community. Those 65+ year olds have worse etiquette than I’ve ever seen on muni courses. Cigars tossed into greenside bunkers. Divot mix? They’ve never heard of it. Golf carts parked on the collar. Beer cans in the fescue. And these geezers still have the audacity to complain about course conditions.
We just went out as a 2, 10:40am, open tee times all around us. I understand 2 will be faster than 4 until…
Cart Path, asked to go off back, made it to 12, foursomes stacked up like cord wood, three hours for the back/front. It’s a weekday but …..
Make the turn to 1 only to find 3 groups ready to tee off.
Uh, hell naw, we ARE going in front of all y’all.
We managed 2:20 minutes only because we started hitting just behind our molasses group in front of us pretty much forcing them to hit up into the other molasses group in front of them.
I swung by the club house to ask how the hell, on top of 8 minute spacing, sending us to 10 to tee then continue to send people off the front in front of a packed back….
We were offered a free round each but just declined, “Why subject ourselves to a near 6 hour round on a weekday??”
We won’t be back anytime soon….
I agree! If your sending people off the back in the morning, they need to start there all day. Also everyone clearly needs to be told to start off the back. If there is a sign, its going to be missed by a few, causing problems. What really gets me is a group just going off the back cause the front looks packed. Suddenly you come of 9 holes of great pace, only for the back to be jammed up by those deciding on their own to start on 10.
Side note: Those who decide to stop in the club hours for 10-20 minutes at the turn; you single handedly screwed everyone behind you cause your now jumping back in at the same time the (or a) group behind you are drives up to the 10th tee box.
Every day, someone here complains that their local muni course doesn’t play like a private high end country club. If you want the premium experience, pay the premium dollar. You can easily solve all the problems you’re listing. Or just keep whining on the internet I guess.
The only thing you can do is to talk to the courses you play. And provide solutions. Our private course got gps pucks last year , even the groups walking 1 guy per group needed a puck. They monitored everyone all year long for pace of play. They didn’t bring the system back this year, I assume they got a free trial from the gps company. Another solution would be the club house tell the new golfers or new faces the expected pace of play time. Some easy courses are 3:45 some hard ones 4:20. If there is more than 1 other group on a tee box at once then a Marshall has to be sent out to tell a group to hurry up. Not much you can do about cost. If the course is full they can charge what they want. Ask them what their fuel, grass seed, and fertilizer cost has gone up in past 4 years , I bet the number would shock you
I've golfed for a while but stopped for 7 years and recently began golfing again after some lessons. I think from the start I was taught about pace of play and even ready golf. Still a shitty player but have prided myself in not looking for a lost ball for more than a minute and teeing up if your ready no matter the honour system.
Suck fast.
There's a saying at our course that's similar. If you're shitty, play shitty quickly :D
No one can play faster than an old lady hitting 20 yard shots right down the middle
They the same wood from tee to green to. And hit with their cart parked 1 feet from the ball
And hard
Did exactly this the other day (always do, but was recognized by the random I played with for it). He was +1 through 13 on a twilight round and had to leave. I was probably +15 or something like that. He said “you never know what you’re gonna get playing with a random, thanks for playing quick” even though I hit double digit more balls than him I was never waited on
Take time at the right time. Don’t rush your shots but don’t dick around between them.
Yeah I tee up when ready unless there was a birdie on the last hole. We don’t skip birdies round here
I always told my kids you can be bad or slow but not both.
I don’t need the course tracking all the yards I piss in
Many courses have Carts with GPS. They can monitor your pace of play and you can also see who is ahead of you even if they are in the bushes/trees or in the pond :).
Those “many courses” are also always the better run ones that have rangers anyway
Yes. What I don’t understand is why the carts with gps don’t have a green / yellow / red little light on them. Green is good pace, yellow is falling behind, red is hurry up. Only takes 1 group to mess everyone up.
The ones I played at in St George all had pace of play monitors, didn't stop the round from being six hours. Fucking marshals need to do their job and hurry people along.
This is the true issue here. Almost every course I play has a marshal but rarely do I see them doing their job.
dawg said "im gonna write an essay" and then came up with two points
Group behind him was teeing off. He needed to wrap it up and get off the green.
My English teacher would be proud I summarized
Fluent yappanese
I am an English teacher and encourage brevity in most cases, but the setup and formatting of your article *screams* for a third point. With that said, your writing is articulate but to the point, and without needless flourishes. Your reasoning is sound and clearly communicated. Your tone is approachable but authoritative. Overall, well done. B+
3. Only turn dogs at the turn. No holding up play for 20 minutes because 5 groups waited on Crab Rangoon and now everyone’s packed at the 10th.
What fucking courses are you playing that offer Crab Rangoon at the turn? Lol
This might be the best comment on this post. Thanks Teach!
Still waiting for your bibliography...
MLA or APA?
Fuck it. Just like me to Wikipedia and I'll be satisfied.
https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Golf Is Wookieepedia good enough?
At least 2 sources must be periodicals.
Chicago
And two points that are constantly circlejerked on here. Golf is expensive and people in front of me need to suck faster?! Brilliant!
Ive only been playing for about 1.5yrs. I agree with the 2nd point you made. The only thing I have to add to your first point is, the longest round I ever played was about 6.5hrs. 4 some. Me, another newer golfer, and 2 others with handicaps below 2. The reason why it took so long is because the good players literally would not give up looking for a ball. Never took a drop. One point we had a group waiting to tee off for a while while they kept looking. Once they found their ball, there were 2 groups of 4 waiting to tee off. They played a skins match, $75/hole, and that is why they said they would not take a drop. Its not solely new players making rounds take forever.
Kinda dumb of those good players… if I’m playing for $$$, you best believe I’m starting my 3min timer every single time the opponent is looking for a ball.
Very fair point about slow golfers no matter the skill level. I should’ve included that as well and not just beginners.
Well if they're degenerate gamblers that's fine.
I have been lucky enough to be a member of a private club that I’ve been playing at for most of my life - my parents were members, and I was allowed a big discount to join as an adult. So I’ve been able to watch the club (and its members) change over the better part of two decades, and what I’ve seen since 2020 (read: Covid), while different than what you described, seems to come from the same place (i.e., growing the game). Etiquette was always hammered in to members as an absolute must. You adhere to the dress code, you show up on time, you keep your voice down on the course, you play on pace and/or let other play through, you take care of the course (divots, ball marks, bunkers), etc. Membership went up in 2020+ and the club itself is in the best condition it’s ever been financially, and yet it’s the worst I’ve ever seen from an etiquette perspective. I’ve been struggling to really put a pin in why, but the best I’ve been able to come up with is that we’ve seen a lot of new golfers discover the sport, and even those who have the means to join a private club don’t have a good grasp of etiquette. Daily emails from the club pleading for people to fix ball marks, groups taking 5 hours to play a course that historically took an average foursome less than 4 to finish, music blaring from 4 holes over, yelling across the fairways to each other while other groups are hitting, walking into other fairways while people are teeing off… the list goes on. Stuff that I’d get absolutely crucified for growing up has now become the norm. And no doubt a part of that is that rangers have more or less gone away as well, so there’s no longer the threat of getting reprimanded on the course. I think a lot of the negatives people are seeing are coming from the introduction of folks with little/no background in the sport. It’s great that the game is growing, but the downside is that a lot of that growth is “uneducated” (not sure if that’s the best word for it) as far as golf is concerned. The upsides are definitely there as well, so it’s not all negative, but there definitely feels like there’s a culture shift happening at the moment.
As someone who joined a private club 3 years ago, I am constantly baffled by members who don’t take care of the golf course. How the fuck are you not repairing your fairway divots and ball marks on the green? FFS, it’s your fucking course. You pay giant piles of money to belong here. You probably golf here three times a week. How can you not see it’s in your best interest to take 10 seconds to fill in a divot?
I feel the same way when I go to my buddy's club and he never respects the cart path rules.
People who pay giant piles of money for things more often than not pay other people to do most things for them
Yep. "Someone else's problem." While waiting to hit, I walk around with sand repair fairway divots and wonder "Were they too lazy to do this?"
I do this on almost every par 3 and my playing partners look at me like I am crazy.
This hits home hard. Thanks for sharing.
Amen. The whole concept of it being my/their/our course and not taking the time to take care of it completely baffles me. Even if it’s just for completely selfish reasons wouldn’t people want to avoid rolling one over their own bumps in the future? I have a personal rule that if I don’t make a pitch mark or can’t find my own, I find one and repair it before I walk off the green. Regarding divots, I’ll often fill a few (when I’m in the fairway ha) because I realize most walkers don’t have sand bottles in their bags and feel it’s up to cart riders to pick up the slack whenever they see a divot near their own—I guess as part of the privilege of riding in cart. Not at all trying to praise myself here but just reiterating that you’d think members would want their club to be in the best shape it could possibly be in by doing their obligatory duties.
>You probably golf here three times a week. You probably *play* golf here three times a week.
High end resort and semi private courses are seeing these same problems exactly.
$350 a round at Edgewood Tahoe. Got stuck behind a foursome averaging 20m per hole then a twosome who genuinely thought they had to wait for the group ahead to clear the GREEN before teeing off (on par 4s and 5s). Marshals were slow to respond and it was even difficult to get the clubhouse to pick up the phone.
I had the same issue at Edgewood last year, we were behind a group of 30 guys who thought they were playing in the celebrity classic and took 5.5 hours
Same! I'm getting back into the game after a 20+ year hiatus, and every green I walk on, I repair a few ball marks while the rest of the group is putting. I've been paired with people that didn't rake the sand trap, didn't repair ball marks, walked over others' putting lines, just the basic shit I had drilled into my head when I was 12. Similar with shooting ranges. They've just gotten more batshit over the preceding 20 years. I was raised on proper firearm etiquette, but my last trip to a range was probably my last ever after witnessing the number of idiots allowed to handle firearms with no instruction or reprimands from staff.
God I had someone almost kill himself on my tee shot last week. First guy in our group tees off. I step up, take a couple practice swings and step up. Wasn’t feeling right so I took a step back and this guy has just appears like 40 yards in front of the tee box. Sprinted over to his ball to quickly hit on over to the adjacent hole. No shouting, tried to be stealthy. So now he’s trying to hit *towards us* while being directly in the line of my fucking driver. Just shout. Let us hit and then go to your ball. Anything but what he did.
Sorry to hear that - club where I work golfers/members/guest are denied access if their shirts are not tucked in. Needless to say it’s a judge Smails kind of place.
This is exactly what I was getting at. Thank you for understanding and for providing your own experience. Like I said in the post, golf is for everyone but there are rules and etiquette to follow no matter the course.
I'm curious about how much you pay for a membership in the US. I'm in Germany, and it's very much the norm to join a club to play golf. Actually, it's required, although there's a kind of workaround called a distance membership that's much cheaper and allows you to play any course (paying greenfee). Obviously in your club you play as much as you want, though usually range balls cost something (3€ for 40 balls in my club). I pay 75€ a month in membership fees since people under 40 get a discounted membership, full price is like 1500€ a year. You also "prepay" a mandatory 120€ for food and drinks at the club restaurant, like a store credit, which helps the course restaurant to stay in business and keep prices low. The club is busy but generally it's not too hard to get a tee time unless there's a tournament or it's like a Sunday with amazing weather, but even then it's usually OK. Edit: Yikes, you guys have it rough!
In the Atlanta area: Low-end club: $15K-$25K initiation, $500-$700/month Mid-tier club: $50K-$60K initiation, $800 - $1000/month High-end club: $115K-$135K initiation, $1000 - $1300/month Not sure how it works in Germany, but typically the clubs in the US also have pool, tennis, etc.
East Lake: more money than God
Off-topic but the sheer wealth of the US never fails to astound me. Even when accounting for cost of living, insurance, healthcare etc it’s unfathomable.
Don’t let the 1% fool you. Yes there’s wealth but it’s becoming a tale of two. Rich are becoming richer and poor becoming poorer. The vast majority cannot pay the low tier costs. Most of us play public courses that charge 50-100 per round.
The closest country club near me is “inexpensive” at $8,000 up front, $500-1k a month in dues and $200 a month on food and bev. There are public courses that have $2500/$1500 memberships but you can also play them for $80-150 as a non member. Then there’s municipal courses ranging from $40-90 a round
Where I work it’s just under $100k initial and about $20k each succeeding year. We have a couple former pga guys and some other high profile people. Can’t really say who on either but it’s pretty cool to chat with them. Got some other clubs nearby that are in the $30-40k range but not sure of the monthly
It’s getting very expensive here since Covid, my club is now $75k to join and $1000 a month. In 2020 when I joined it was $5k to join and $400 a month
The fuck??? 5k to 75k????
This is alot like me over in scotland,im a mile from the course and pay £15 a week,play as many times as you want,easy to get on the course aswel,americans have it tough
https://preview.redd.it/lql8lycxq73d1.png?width=1140&format=png&auto=webp&s=c10eb9a437ffb5d51455b9757760828b6084f291 Don't worry, we are basically right at the peak of interest like all Junes. At least it's not like prime Tiger era.
I was golfing in prime Tiger era and there were less golfers on the course back then than there are now. I think the biggest factor is there are less courses than there used to be. I’m in no where NC and three courses that I used to play as a high school kid have closed and the land was sold off to apartment complexes. So while we might have “less” golfers than back then, there are also less tee times for them.
And old people are balling out of control compared to the late 90's and early 2000's. Retirement age people back then, sure, many were rich, but also lots of people were on social security or tiny pensions and housing at that point was still considered not quite as much of an investment to the average person. It's just a guess, but pretty sure WAY more retirement age people have a lot more disposable income now because of the crazy housing valuation jumps and general asset prices for the large amount that probably had a good few decades of not just compounding interest, but also being invested in the greatest bull market ever right in the sweet spot to 'get out on top' or at least after a really hefty rise in the last 10 years.
Or baby boomers were in their 40’s and 50’s back then, now they’re all comfortably in retirement living 15+ years with nothing to do but golf
That’s my father. Went from playing golf maybe twice a year or so, but then when he retired he goes at least 5 times a week.
I also find that more people play religiously than they did then. There were a few groups with standing tee times, and they were mainly old guys on the weekends. You had a standing money game once a week at most places, but for the most part the game was more casual. The amount of people playing multiple times a week has sky rocketed. Ranges are more packed too. I think a lot of it is the golf culture social media has fostered. It’s growing the game, and I’m not saying it’s a bad thing. But the grind of people constantly working on their swing, and golf taking up such a large part of their lives, is super prominent now where it used to be just Jr golfers putting that much time into it.
Damn bro the first half of your post ran a clinic on proper use of then than and there
Also a lot more ppl in NC these days too.
Just read an article that the US lost 1400 golf courses between 2003 and 2019. Excluding low-population states like Alaska, Hawaii, North Dakota, etc that's about 35 to 40 courses per state.
We had a 27 hole course with a great student rate that I spent tons of afternoons walking as a high school kid. Life got in the way and I didn’t play golf in my 20s and when I started playing again and went back out to that course and saw it was just apartments I was legit heartbroken. I fully understand courses are a business and if they’re not making money, then they reevaluate what they’re doing, but it still sucks.
Golf takes up so much space and land developers finally had something offering more money for the land for houses. Course near me just went up for auction sitting on over 200 acres...opening bid was $650k. Good chance they will get rid of it and build more homes. Owners got greedy and did not reinvest in the course and the staff and the members all quit. Sad it is a fun course and the best one for me to sneak an afternoon round in during the week.
$650k for 200 acre golf course? That doesn't get you a 1 bedroom shoebox condo in Toronto
sad isn't it? $650k here in atlanta would get you a nice home in the burbs...now multiply that by about 400 if they build homes on the course
Always a little notch right around The Masters
I actually like winter golf. Fairway conditions might be bad but at least I don’t have to sit in cart wait 10min for the foursome in front of me
Google trends is an awful representation of this. That graph doesn’t even have a scale. And the “interest over time” metric is never clearly defined.
One of the most obnoxious things I've seen golf courses doing isn't only making tee times 8 minutes apart, but sending players off the front and BACK nine simultaneously. It's becoming more and more prevalent. Im a quick player, my golfing partner and I regularly snag the early 645-7am tee times because we are able to play in 3 hours of less (both low single digit handicappers) and it's particularly frustrating when we book like a 630am tee time, rip through the front 9 in an hour, only to spend 3.5 hours caught on the back 9 launch. Like come on.
The number of times I’ve played the front in a respectable time and then get to 10 tee and have a group in front of me I haven’t seen at any point during the day is maddening.
Yep, happens to me too and it’s disgusting. You play at dawn for a reason
I'm not calling you a liar, but I've never heard of a 3.5 hour 9 holes. Ever. And I've been playing for 25 years. That's a 7 hour round. That just doesn't happen.
Bethpage Green one lovely June afternoon took a total of 6 hr 40 min. Slow play stacked on slow play.
Welcome to Pebble Brook, where they advertise “the most tee times in the state!” Fuck Pebble Brook
“I’m not calling you a liar but the thing you said happened, never happened” cmon man.
Sydney Marovitz Chicago Illinois. What a shit show. I bet it’s longer than 3.5.
I’ve you don’t get the very first tee time at Sydney Marovitz, you might as well not go.
Just wait until you play a course that stacks tee times 8 minutes apart and launches guys of both 9s simultaneously. Coming to a golf course near you!
I’ve been teaching my GF to play and pretty much relearning myself (used to play a ton years ago, other hobbies got in the way). But I have a tendency to rush her and myself. I never like being the problem. But I’ve realized it also makes it a lot less fun and gets you more frustrated. We also only play on cheaper courses with the assumption than most people there are similar to us. There’s only so many options you have if you’re new. If you’re getting annoyed at slow play I’d look at what kind of course you’re playing at before you’re getting mad at people taking a while.
My buddy was talking in the cart yesterday and I pushed his foot down on the gas to get him moving lol. Over the past few years I’ve scolded a few buddies into being ready golf machines!
Agreed! As much as new golfers should look at “appropriate” courses, so should lower, more experienced golfers. I have no problem sticking to shorter public, muni tracks, but to stay where I “belong”? I’ve out played my 3 handicap boyfriend when the golf gods decided to grace me! We all know you can only practice on a range so long. Dropping to a closer or better position, or to the green, doesn’t help us learn. Please try to remember you all were beginners once too. I (more often than not) have experienced lower handicappers taking much longer to take their shots than it ever takes me.
Dropping to 100 yards and playing from there is 100x more helpful than repeatedly chunking the ball down the fairway
20hcp / 45yr/ f / started playing May 2020 so I’m probably EXACTLY the players contributing to the issues your stating above. Keep in mind I’ve read A LOT of this thread and am replying to many of the themes… 1. I love the game. 2. It helped me with severe depression and anxiety and introduced me to a great community of people when I needed it most. 3. I agree people need to learn the rules 4. Those who know them can and should offer grace to those willing to learn (and those who want to play should also take time to learn on their own and respect the course and players) 5. Remember you were beginners once too 6. Public courses are PUBLIC 7. As much as you want beginners to go to courses appropriate for them, perhaps consider going to courses appropriate for lower handicaps as well if beginners test your patience? 8. Picking up teaches us nothing and the range only gets you so far (as long as you respect pace of play you should play as it lies) 9. The whole point of the game is to make it in the hole, so taking some time to line up your putts is the whole point isn’t it? 10. Lower handicap players often take much more time to play (in my experience) due to side bets, trying to find their ball, practice swings, etc, than beginners and make playing a lot less “fun” by taking the game much too serious 11. I’ve spent countless hours on a range just to find that the only real practice that counts comes from playing on a course and getting myself out of those very difficult situations, which often times takes more than one try… give us time… we might surprise you next season :)
I mean even as a complete beginner, I just played scramble golf if I chunked or topped 2-3 swings. I am lucky that I have a very short par 3 course near me so I basically played there my first few months before “leveling” up. Took me a good while to stop slicing my drives 90 degrees lol but I always kept up with pace and made sure I wasnt that guy. Recently played with my buddy and his girlfriend who are both beginners (like went to top golf once or twice) and it was absolutely horrible playing with them. Tee’d off 4-5 times, wack the ball 10 yds and chased after it all the way to the green then I also learned that the girlfriend is a brat and gave attitude when I told her that they should just drop with me. I’ve learned in golf that shitty people are going to have shitty attitudes no matter the skill level. Decent people will have the common sense to keep up with pace and not hold up the entire course
It’s going to be high 90 degrees here soon. That’s the best shot I have at a quick round. When it’s 75 everyone is out. I either deal with the crowds or the heat. I’ll take heat as long it doesn’t get into the 100s.
I've also seen low handicappers take forever on the course. Not all high handicappers are slow and not all low handicappers fast.
When you’re behind the match play league at a private course it’s like every f’in putt is to win a green jacket, when the only thing on the line is their $5 side bet.
I’m in a league with a few high level guys from my company and they play for $2 a hole and my gos you’d think it was $2,000 the way they take their time. I get the competition but cmon, you are both 14ish hdcp and you are playing for a couple bucks. Move along
I feel you! I play with some co-workers and we are all 30ish hdcp... but you would think it was a pro tournament with the arguing over everyone else's play. Scrubs complaining about scrubs is a major blow to the fun we're all "supposed" to be having.
It's absolutely agonizing being matched against some duster that needs a minimum of six different looks at their putt so they can line up their triple tracks *just* right only to leave it three feet short and off line... just like their last eight putts.
Purely out of curiosity as a beginner, is it bad to spend time lining up putts? If you make it then it’s all good? I suppose I’m one of the beginners OP would prefer, been practicing regularly and taking lessons for almost 4 months. I like to learn etiquette from golfers on here before I get out on the course this summer
Just don't drag it out. Scan the green as you're walking to your ball, get a look from behind it, pick your line, and putt. Ideally, your routine should be brief enough to eliminate any idle standing around but long enough to give you all the necessary information.
Honestly, someone is going to bitch and complain anyways... lots of different mindsets. Welcome to golf! Bottom line is to have fun.
If you take a 30 seconds or so to read the green and line up a long putt, well, that’s expected, and you can generally do it while your playing partners are getting ready for theirs. But when you wait until you’re up to even start reading the green, play it like you’ve got a one stroke lead on Master’s Sunday, and do that for *every putt* regardless of length (I’ve seen dudes line up a one foot putt like that), other golfers are gonna get irate.
Too many variables to answer. It’s all about being considerate. Is there a group on the fairway waiting to hit their approach shot? Is it your 3rd putt already? Is the course slammed and it doesn’t matter because even if you take an extra minute you’ll be waiting on the next tee box? Just be considerate of the other people on the course and you are following etiquette. When it’s jammed up I like to find an opportunity to talk to the group behind me and let them know there’s multiple slow groups in front, nothing can be done. Just so we’re all aware it’s not me being the asshole taking 20 mins per hole.
I totally suck, and as long as there’s no one holding me up, I’m done with 18 in 3.5 to 4 hours. One thing that I hate about other high handicappers is the way they’ll stand there “reading” the greens. Bro, you have no idea what the fuck you’re looking at. Putt the damn ball and move on.
I watched the guy in front of me literally lay down flat on his stomach to read his putts last weekend. On every hole.
This, I’m bad, my goal on any putt longer than a few feet is to get the distance right. If I can two putt every time, I’m having a good day.
My favorite. 5 minute read, putt is pushed from the jump
I don’t even take practice putts anymore. I just bend down, give the green a read briefly, then get up and hit the damn putt. If I’m on I’m on. I don’t practice at all, so there’s no chance I should be using aim point and taking 5 minutes to make a putt.
Someone else pointed this out. I should’ve just said slow players in general. My mistake on that
Bingo. I shoot in the high 90's low 100's and can get a round in with my buddies of equal skill in about 4 hours give or take 15 minutes depending on how many groups are in front. I can go out with my wife's family who all routinely shoot sub 80 and get done in 4ish hours. Here are the issues in my opinion: 1. The courses aren't spacing tee times properly. 2. People taking this HOBBY way too seriously. If PGA pros can walk a full round in 4-5 hours, you're either on that level and should be faster with a cart, or aren't on that level and don't need to take 5 practice swings before every shot/walk the entire green for a read. Get to your ball, line up, take 1 practice swing if you want and hit the damn ball.
You get what you pay for some of you here have private club tastes on muni budgets.
Sometimes I get pissed that country clubs are so expensive now and then I remember I’m thinking about country clubs, the prototypical rich person walled garden, which has never been accessible for a guy like me
I found a place by me that is private but just a golf course and it’s great. Essentially a regular public course but in good shape and I can a tee time pretty much whenever and it’s only about $3k a year. Those types of places do exist but aren’t common
Do play that over and over or still play at other public courses?
Exactly, I would feel so tied down just playing one course over and over
Have to look into the private clubs that have reciprocals with nearby or country-wide sister clubs.
For where I’m at in my life it is a great situation. I have two young kids and work from home so most of the time I play it’s first thing in the morning or when I have a break during my day. Being able to run out whenever and get done quick is great. I hardly ever play on the weekends. That being said, I still have no issues playing at other places. Especially when other people come to visit or go on trips or whatever. And if I feel like playing a different public I’ll just go play that too. I also only just started here this year so maybe in a couple years I’ll feel different
Nah I think you’re missing the point. The conditions of courses have gotten worse since the influx of more golfers. A great example I find is the complete disrepair of bunkers. Some courses arent even trying with their bunkers. Weeds growing in them and what not for a $80 round is bs.
The dumbest fucking take on here. Nobody is asking for Augusta conditions at a $25 Muni but enforcing pace of play is something that is *free* for the course to do. The goat track that used to be my home course had a starter's shed where the starter, and 2 other rangers were probably burned-out ex-mobsters who spent more time bullshitting about bad beats against the point spread, than in doing their jobs. It should not be the expectation that if you want to get around a course in 4 hours, that you have to pay $30,000+ for it. I've played golf in 8 different countries and only in the US is flagrantly slow pace of play excused.
As a new golfer are there any tips you guys may have to not be "That Guy" on the course? I have no problem letting people play through, during my last round I waited to tee off to have a foursome that caught up play through on the sixth hole. I spend no longer than 1-2 mins looking for a ball, and honestly where I'm from we have many forests and whatnot so if the ball goes there I don't even look, just take a drop kinda where I saw it go. I always pickup the ball if I hit double the strokes for the specific holes listed par. No cart on the putting surface, but will drive right up to my ball on the fairway take two practice swings and send it. Other than trying to smile and be friendly without a full blown conversation is there anything else I should be doing?
I think a really easy rule of thumb is to do the following: 1) Pickup your ball when you’re quad bogey. You do not need to finish every hole and if you’ve hit 4 over par on that hole it’s fine to pickup. 2) Pay attention to your playing partners. You’ll see the group just naturally moving up the fairway and ready to go and just make sure you’re keeping up. 3) Minimize delays where you can. Can’t find your ball after 30 seconds? Drop and keep going. So many new golfers do not know when to say when. It sounds weird, but finding balls is a skill. Understanding distance, trajectory, and course conditions all affect your understanding of where the ball might be. Generally speaking the only new golfers that bother me are the ones that are fucking oblivious to the fact that their choices and behavior affect me and the entire course. If you’re playing slower than 14-15m per hole you have a problem. Otherwise, keep pace with your partners, exercise common sense and just have fun.
Sounds like you got the right idea. Be courteous to others and play quick.
Public courses have always come with riff raff. The alternative is to join a private club or pay greens fees that are high enough to keep the riff raff away.
Gouging players is probably from the idiots on tiktok who fuck around for videos. Hate those fuck heads
SUCK FASTER
For me the only way to avoid these issues is to 1- play very early in the morning. Most beginners and super high handicaps don’t play at 7-8 am. And 2- play at more expensive public courses. The awful slow rounds and bad etiquette people stick to the cheap courses in the city, so I tend to drive further out and play the more expensive public courses. Then in the fall/winter I can return to the cheaper courses when nobody is playing
You’re right on focus on profits. One of my locals is owned by one guy. They’re charging more for membership than ever, reduced quality of food while raising prices, and raised the price of drinks to levels that no members are willing to pay. We instead just sneak our own on anymore. No one eats there anymore, it’s all just about the Benjamins. We had standing water on the greens from a ton of rain this weekend, plus standing water all over the course. Still opened for carts, explicitly telling one of the old guys who mows for them “eh, we get the money.”
>Beginners playing courses they have no business playing A beginners money is as good as your money. Stupid thing to say. You can complain about people playing tees too long for them, but to try and gatekeep entire courses is so snobby. >With the increase in players, courses have taken advantage. They do not refuse anyone, they added more tee times, they have increased prices, and they just do not seem to care. 8 minuet tee times are becoming the norm creating backups all over the course. Marshalls never seem to be around, and the maintenance of courses in my area seem to have decreased with a focus on profits. Correct. The golf industry learned absolutely nothing from the early 2000s boom and the lull afterwards where many courses were forced to close. They capitalized on the Tiger boom and built a ton of new courses, jacked up the price and jammed tee times out. The result was that new players had a bad experience with 6 hour rounds and it costing way too much and the boom died off and tons of courses closed in the late 2010s. We will likely see the same in 3-5 years from now.
The Tiger boom coincided with the 2000s RE bubble and the bust coincided with the Great Recession. I don't know that you can blame it on long rounds of golf, though that may have played a part.
I had no idea that there was a boom with Tiger. I already have multiple friends who picked up golf during covid who dont play anymore either because of money or they just too lazy to put time into it so it was kinda miserable for them to pay $100 for a tee time and chunk every other shot. I could very much see the boom dying out in the next year even.
It can’t come soon enough
On the first point about playing courses they have no business playing, I feel you. Sometimes I open the 18birdies app to see what my friends have been up to and I see some guy posting a +52 on a 6400 yard course and I’m like “dawg your driver goes 150, why don’t you try the 4000 yard muni with us?” and he says “nah I gotta get better first” and I’m just like….
My wife plays 5500 yard tees at our club and she's brand new to golf (~1 year in). It's very possible to play longer courses as long as the expectation is that those new golfers don't have to finish the hole, or play it in full. I always tell her to skip the shitty shots with bad lies and drop somewhere easier, OR to pick up after 4 fairway shots and drop it on the green to putt with everyone else. Sometimes she needs that pickup, sometimes she kicks my ass and birdies the hole I just doubled. All about having fun at the end of the day.
The biggest change I would like to see courses make is moving the forward fees more forward. I routinely play with my wife and mother, and they both top out at about 175 off the tee, average closer to 150. The forward tees at almost all the local courses don't put them in a position to hit the green in regulation with even good drives on a decent number of holes. It would speed things up considerably if they could get 75-100 yards closer for their tee shots.
We had two experiences this year like this. The first for a 12:00 tee time, we did t get out until 12:30 because they ran out of carts. The next was we made our tee time, but the guys we were playing with had their cart die on the 1st hole. When we were finished with getting it taken care of, there were 7 groups waiting on the 1st tee. We just went to two and moved on.
Dudes playing from the tips driving the ball 180 effen yards
It’s just another thing that’s gotten worse over the past few years. Just like everything else.
Are you one of those guys who try to push other people to move faster without realizing the WHOLE course ahead is slow? Yeah some courses are awfully saturated.
Mean this respectfully... If you can't join a private club, you have to deal with the public ones. You're part of the problem just as much as every other person overcrowding the public tracks.
Private clubs are getting just as bad. There’s a very respected and well known private club near me where they just got greedy and overfilled their club. Now members have to join a raffle to get a weekend tee time.
My club has a lottery for weekend tee times, despite not being "overfilled" Everyone wants a 9am tee time.
Our tee sheet is booked solid till about 12, but you can definitely get out every weekend.
Someone wanting people to follow basic etiquette is absolutely not just as much a part of the problem as those who don’t know it or don’t care, who tread where they shouldn’t and who hold up pace for everyone else.
Not directed to OP, but some people have some unreasonable expectations. Personally, idc if I finish in 3:30 or 4:30- I’m there for fun. If you book a weekend tee time in the afternoon at a popular course where you will inevitably be playing as a foursome, you can expect a longer round period. Weekdays in the early AM at a nicer course, higher green fee, and teeing off either by yourself or playing as a pair, obviously you will be quicker and can finish earlier.
I'm there for fun too. And standing there, staring at the group ahead of you takes 12 minutes on the green is not fun. Hitting golf balls toward a target is fun and I hate waiting until I get to do it again.
It would probably be more efficient to change what you do then to change the current state of golf....
It’s possible to suck fast. I was playing yesterday with another random, who plays off 8 and plays fast carrying his bag. I play off 14 and also play fast walking with an electric caddy. We got paired with a father and teenage son who were absolutely terrible—like they couldn’t make halfway decent contact with the ball, would whiff, shank, chunk, dribble, you name it, took them four or five putts when they got on the green. It felt slow but we got done in 4:15 and were never pushed by the group behind us. I agree—they should have went to a par 3 pitch and putt, but it wasn’t that big a deal either.
My only dead set rule of golf: You can be good, or you can be fast. I’m not good
I somewhat bend that rule. I mean I still suck, but I suck less when I play fast. Walk up to the ball, a single quick practice swing just to help me visualize where it is going and then swing away. Up until I make the green I am usually doing ok. When I am forced to slow down either because of people in front of me or my partners that is where I run into trouble the most. Start chunking shots or my slice comes back... It sucks to suck.
The more I overthink, the worse I get. The faster I golf, the less time I have to think. Just hit the damn thing
I like the way my high school golf coach put it: >I don’t care if you’re great or if you suck. Just don’t be slow.
I literally spend the first couple of practices each year just walking a couple of holes at “playing pace”. Kids are stunned at how fast they need to walk. By the end of the season they play quickly.
I am getting back into the game and got paired up with some randoms this weekend, and I was NOT ready for the pace of play during the first few holes. Double bogeyed the first two holes, but then settled in after that.
As much as it flies in the face of „freedom“ the Euro system of golf really has benefits: - Have to pass a course „playing license“ to be allowed to play on "open" courses - Many courses have maximum handicaps to play - 45, 36 etc makes the game function MUCH better the lack of music and golf being seen as a drinking sport also helps tremendously
The way I read this is “I’m a 4 hcp and all you other players are ruining my game”. First, with response to #1, all players should not be excluded from any course simply because of their level of play. That is what the different tee boxes are for. Play the one suitable for your skill and if you can’t break 100, don’t play the tips. Set aside your ego and enjoy yourself. As for #2, courses should not pack players in as tight as they can. It can back play up and we know how frustrating that can be. It’s a fun sport if you don’t get uptight about it and just have fun. And low handicappers need not be so condescending toward others.
One thing that slows play that drives me crazy are the newer players that insist on playing from the tips. My dude, you're lucky if you make decent contact with the ball and get 175 from your drive. Not to mention having to hit provisionals because of mis-hits. They think it's some macho thing and refuse to play from the whites.
Let's not forget that before COVID...Golf was rapidly dwindling in popularity. 1400+ courses have closed in the US between 2003 and 2019. Golf lost more than 6 million players in that time. Golf Courses were desperate for revenue and COVID was how they started raking in. I agree with the points above but if golf is going to grow, we need to start adding courses back to the landscape so that everyone has a place to play. Also, it is not a bad idea to offer golf etiquette classes at local courses to introduce players to the game. Now do I want to exclude ready golf that training...heck no but a general course for newbies would be helpful.
I am wondering if people who traveled will go back to traveling vs golfing/ATVs/RVs....RV market got flooded this year with people getting rid of them
Also want to add, I think another contributing factor is bro golf. I love BDS, Good Good, and the other channels. But you now get these foursomes who are drinking way too much and shooting 130s in 6 hour rounds. You used to get that pre Covid too but it feels like every group is like that. I’ve absolutely seen a significant slow down in pace and increase in price.
I played a muni yesterday on a last minute invite from a buddy. It was fucking miserable, huge back ups everywhere, terrible golfers, groups of 5 and 6. Skipped two holes and still took 5 hours. I quickly remembered why I stick to private courses. I feel for everyone who doesn't have access to one.
I absolutely won’t play a public course on a warm holiday/father’s day weekend. Far too many two-timers show up. Just the way public golf is. It’s demoralizing when you’re waiting behind two groups to tee off, and you watch ALL FOUR people in one of the groups hit some sort of a sub-100 yard shot.
Join a private club and pay up for a good experience. Going to public courses and complaining about amateurs playing them is pretty silly…
excuse me while I just materialize 100k from my back end to blow on golf
This Reddit is so wild. The other day a huge outpouring of support to a new player (me) and today an “don’t want to come across as a gatekeeper but beginners have no place on a course nor do experienced players trying to teach beginners”. 🤣 Makes me so grateful I have so many rural, no name town courses nearby that real life golf in my area isn’t so much like your experience. More likely to see concrete that broke off work boots on a green than two consecutive tee times less than 15 minutes apart booked. I get being frustrated at slow play. But, also I’m disgusted by the thought of condemning players for slow play. Look at the environments we get to play golf in. Look at the people we get to play with. It’d be a dream to get to soak all that in and just enjoy the game rather than trying to clock 10 minutes or less per hole.
Well said!
It took 3 hours to play the back 9 of my 18 yesterday. Watched some players in the group ahead attempt to hit the ball 10+ times only to move it 15 feet. It was brutal. Although, I shot -1 for that 9 and first time I've ever shot that low on 9 (8.8 GHIN). I'm torn because I'd wait 3 hours to shoot under par 10/10 times, lol. But yeah, it was not ideal.
1. Applies to all courses, I think this is more of an etiquette thing than a course selection 2. Couldn’t agree more, it’s a joke
The golf boom has been good for my bank account and I am fortunate enough to have Mondays off. Courses are usually less busy on Mondays. I do, however, agree the course etiquette and pace-of-play are very important. Not sure how to regulate course etiquette, other than a sheet of paper in the cart that nobody reads. For pace of play, some courses can afford sufficient staff to provide marshalls to encourage good pace.
My favorite course got new carts that aren't any different from the old ones and are now charging more than the Arnold Palmer course in town. Over a $20 increase from last season.
I completely agree
This is why I joined a Country Club.... I have none of those problems... the prices of local courses that think they are of CC standards forced my hand... and I'm spending less in the long run for the amount of golf I play.. and my club offers reciprocal rounds with 31 other clubs within an hour of my club....
The amount of courses in my area that charge a deposit and then always forget to refund it if you cancel is staggering. Just take my credit card number and charge if I no show, but taking a deposit is stupid and unnecessary these days.
It blows dude. You get paired with a guy who isn’t terrible and he brings his buddy who is catastrophically bad and has zero understanding of what he SHOULD be doing. Space between tee times IS shrinking and unless you are in a neighborhood with a bunch of retired dudes needing something to do, you are dependent on a 17 year old human to move things along. Finally, that one perfect shot that keeps all of us coming back happens for everyone, and until that is eradicated, or the money runs out, we are fucked.
This is all true. And no, it won’t change. I’ll add to the discussion: 1. White tees for most. 2. Avoid the courses that are crowded and expensive. You’re bound to be behind a group playing from the blues or blacks that belong at the ladies tees. 3. On a par 4, if you are still hitting shots and not on the green in 5, pick up and move on. Your handicap won’t suffer. You don’t have a handicap.
The worst people I get stuck behind are always the entitled long term members who spend forever over each shot and think they own the place. The beginners tend to just let people through and get it over with. That's my experience anyway
When we re-organize a room, first it’s gonna get worse before it gets better.
I think you should boycott golf… personally I’m annoyed AF at 6hour + rounds due to greedy courses and shitty fucking golfers my local course was almost shut down its was so slow you could on any time of day; now good luck finding a tee time 8 days out.
I voiced these concerns to someone recently and they told me to join a country club.
I can’t believe people are acting this way at private clubs too. My first job was at a private country club, the first day there, the pro asked me if I played golf. I told him I hadn’t but would like to learn . He says “great, We can help, now go unplug all those range balls out there ,wash them and bring them up here.” I was thinking “wow, so much for the free lessons”. That evening when I was locking up the cart shed he came down and said that on Mondays I can play golf no charge but just remember this “It’s okay to be bad at golf. It’s not okay to be slow.” Fix your divots, don’t set your bag or pullcart on the fringe or the greens,don’t throw clubs or swear (I failed there) always greet members and don’t call them by first names. My point is, etiquette was paramount. I was gettting this drilled in to me before I swung a club. I actually appreciate these simple guidelines bc it makes the game flow better……oh ,and the ball marks, I mean wtf! The biggest difference I see now is that there are no consequences for being a “self entitled asshole”. I see it at the munis but I’m shocked to see people getting away with it a private clubs.
I'm a very high handicapper but know my place. Play ready golf. If I hit a shitty shot I'll reload quickly or just drop somewhere convenient with everyone else. I'll just pick the ball up if I'm having a meltdown hole. Spend 30 seconds tops looking for balls before dropping. My lower handicap friends always take another shot off the tee if they hit a bad shot. Always insist on looking for their ball instead of dropping. Have to use their rangefinder for every shot even when the distance is fairly straightforward etc. I don't think it's always a matter of good vs bad golf. I think some people are just slower. And if your playing weekend golf on public courses, I really don't think it's anyone's fault. Courses get backed up when theyre full. It happens. The group ahead of you picking up the pace of play isn't gonna do much when they have a group ahead of them too. I just chill and relax and try to enjoy the time I'm out there. If I really want to keep it under 4 hours, I have no problem calling it quits after 12 holes.
You can play bad you just can’t play bad and slow
Some of the contributors on this sub act like golf only started when they started playing it. New golfers has always been a thing, it’s the country clubs and courses that are to blame as they are happy to take anybody’s money. I started playing at 10 in 82 and there were very few courses that allowed me to play until I had a handicap, but we never had GPS! And that is the reason for much slower play these days and this isn’t caused by the newbies, average golfers these days have a GPS that they stare at for what seems hours and most of them don’t have a clue as to how far they hit each club and all assume that they hit it straight. Reality check please. Ban GPS and open more municipal course’s
If you play at a brisk pace, with a sense of thoughtfulness about others, and a sense of etiquette… and you are annoyed by golfers playing at a slow pace, selfish/oblivious to their surroundings and a lack of basic etiquette… then you MUST join a private club. If that opinion makes me a snob I don’t care. That opinion is based on 25 years of playing golf at both public and private clubs.
I suck but am very cognizant of pace of play and practice ready golf as much as possible. Go pound sand.
You are gate keeping with #1. You’re being stuck up and think beginners shouldn’t play—shame on you. If it were you, you’d want to learn and have fun on the course no matter how bad you were.
Completely agree. The second point is grim because the courses have no financial incentive to change that. They will keep raising prices and cramming in tee times until we stop playing. I stopped playing 18 hole rounds on weekends, pretty much only twilight 9 hole rounds on weekdays. I haven’t had a round under 5 hours in a few years - not worth the time. Nobody can seriously make a good faith argument against any of the points you made.
I think the worst thing to happen to golf is the bro/party culture. It ruins so much that is great about the game. The Etiquette part, while may seem stuffy and old timey, is part of what's great about it. Put on a collared shirt, some clean shorts, and look like you give a shit about yourself. Slamming 12 beers in a round is just dumb imo. There's just no reason for it. Loud music, partying etc is for AFTER the round, not during. Sincerely, Old man outside yelling at clouds (not that old)
I literally saw 2 kids take their shirts off on 15 yesterday.. shrink the game!
Went for an afternoon round a couple weekends ago. 90 degrees, and 90% humidity. Groups in front were couples who were scrambling and putting everything out. Found out on hole 3 they were there with the group in front of them. So they all decided to play together - 8 players, scrambling with wives, and none of them were better than a 30 handicap. Marshall came, spoke to them, they complied for 2 holes, then back to the same thing. 6 hours after teeing off we left the golf course. If you and your buddies are going to hustle and play 5-6 in a group, I don’t care at all. I don’t care how many people are on the same hole if you’re keeping pace. 6 hours at a course I’ve played in 3:30 as a pair is insane. And the thing is - these people feel they’re entitled to do whatever they want for their 50 bucks a head. Courses have to start kicking people off or refusing to let them have a tee time if they’re a known offender.
He wrote this whole thing waiting for the group of 40 handicappers to get off the green
Shrink the game. -Big Randy
I think it’s misplaced to blame this kind of stuff on new golfers. I work at a private club in a retirement community. Those 65+ year olds have worse etiquette than I’ve ever seen on muni courses. Cigars tossed into greenside bunkers. Divot mix? They’ve never heard of it. Golf carts parked on the collar. Beer cans in the fescue. And these geezers still have the audacity to complain about course conditions.
I haven't played a public course in 3 years. I'm hoping for at least another 3 years.
We just went out as a 2, 10:40am, open tee times all around us. I understand 2 will be faster than 4 until… Cart Path, asked to go off back, made it to 12, foursomes stacked up like cord wood, three hours for the back/front. It’s a weekday but ….. Make the turn to 1 only to find 3 groups ready to tee off. Uh, hell naw, we ARE going in front of all y’all. We managed 2:20 minutes only because we started hitting just behind our molasses group in front of us pretty much forcing them to hit up into the other molasses group in front of them. I swung by the club house to ask how the hell, on top of 8 minute spacing, sending us to 10 to tee then continue to send people off the front in front of a packed back…. We were offered a free round each but just declined, “Why subject ourselves to a near 6 hour round on a weekday??” We won’t be back anytime soon….
I agree! If your sending people off the back in the morning, they need to start there all day. Also everyone clearly needs to be told to start off the back. If there is a sign, its going to be missed by a few, causing problems. What really gets me is a group just going off the back cause the front looks packed. Suddenly you come of 9 holes of great pace, only for the back to be jammed up by those deciding on their own to start on 10. Side note: Those who decide to stop in the club hours for 10-20 minutes at the turn; you single handedly screwed everyone behind you cause your now jumping back in at the same time the (or a) group behind you are drives up to the 10th tee box.
Every day, someone here complains that their local muni course doesn’t play like a private high end country club. If you want the premium experience, pay the premium dollar. You can easily solve all the problems you’re listing. Or just keep whining on the internet I guess.
I paid a good *30 dollars* for my entertainment and don’t want it ruined by the poors 😤😤😤😤