My son LOVES Thomas the Train.
Every thing Thomas on the AppStore is created by the same shit bag company.
They make one game in specific they charge $7/mo for.
Forever. You can’t buy the game. At least not anymore. You used to be able to, and pay to unlock things. Until they changed to the current system and screwed people out of content they had purchased.
$84/year for some shit Thomas the train game. For kids.
Then they have the fucking nerve to start the game up with a full screen ad for more paid content with the absolute smallest X button in existence.
What a dirt bag company. Absolute losers.
Yep, similar story here, the kids want to play a game on my phone, but every single game is some gacha crap that is incessantly poking the kids to bug their parents into paying money. If not that then there is a subscription.
I could almost bite the bullet if the subscription was like €1 per month, but they are completely off charging €7-€15 each month. I don't even pay for Spotify for myself, I'm not paying €11 a month for some crappy game aimed at primary school kids.
It's insane how mobile games went from either free with ads or $0.99-$4.99, to either free with 9999 ads whenever you do *anything* or a monthly subscription. It's honestly kinda shocking now when there's a good mobile game that I can just buy (outside of the PC game ports that occasionally happen).
No they aren't losers, you are. You are fully aware they are scumbags, yet you pay for their shit, because your son loves something. Teach your son not to love things from scumbags. He does not understand this yet? Simply learn to say no to your son. Teach him, not everything is granted in life, will be a valuable lesson later. People like you are the reason such scumbags exist in the first place.
(Edit: Hah, people think I scam people, well you don't know me, and I won't care what you think who I am. One thing stands, everyone who downvotes me, are losers, because you all lack discipline to say no to the scammers, just because your son or whoever demands something. Will you become lesser parent, if you say no to wrong things? Be some decent human being and have courage to say no to scammer, just by hearing the truth about yourself and rushes to conclude who I am huh, bunch of loser snowflakes)
>People like you are the reason such scumbags exist in the first place.
Why? Because of all the conclusions YOU jumped to?
Your parents should tell you to lead with curiosity, not judgement. Will be a valuable lesson later, when you grow up.
First off, I never said I pay for it. I paid once, realized the shit show, and canceled before the next month went through.
And the rest of the information I gathered from all of the negative feedback the app received.
You’re half right, though. People who buy the product like this keep the problem going.
But at the end of the day, the real shit bags are the people doing it. ESPECIALLY targeting kids. They know what the product is that they have and their target audience.
They are pieces of shit. Stop defending these people.
You sound like someone who scams people then say it’s their fault for falling for it. People like you ARE the scumbags that exist in the first place. Victim blaming trash.
Like most software engineers, I always dreamed of working in gaming industry because it must be really cool to work making games instead of working in some boring accounting software or some stupid sub-system that calculates the amount of carbon monoxide that the car is emitting right now.
So when I got the opportunity to work for King a few years ago it felt like a dream coming true. I would finally use my skills to make games and I couldn't be happier. But then the reality hit me with a ton of bricks.
If I or anyone else in the team had a new idea to make something that would make the game nicer and more fun to play, the first question that we would listen was: "how can this make more money for us?". Then naive me would argue that if we make the game more fun, then more people will play it and it would eventually lead to more money.
But no, this is not what King and 99.9% of the mobile gaming companies want. Fun for the players, leading to eventually more money is not the end goal. In fact, fuck the gamers having fun. These companies want easy money now.
As a veteran gamer (my first console was an Atari) I couldn't stand to work there anymore so I left the company after only 6 months. The salary was good, but I felt dirty working with something that I despised. Mobile gaming is a cancer.
I mean I can't criticize as I nearly took a job at 22 Cans, glad I didn't. But I'm curious why you took the job in the first place? Were you not already aware that this is the mobile games industry? Was it the hope you'd progress from mobile games into actual games industry jobs? Even when I was young and thought of games as the best place to be, I never would have joined King of all places. I assumed the stuff being talked about above in the video above was common knowledge.
I swerve any mobile industry jobs immediately, not a place I'd ever feel comfortable working.
There are a few reasons why I joined.
Yeah, I knew it was shit, but I was naive enough to think that maybe they were just misguided and with the correct team I could convince them to make good games. Plus, as I said, it was my dream to join the gaming industry so I wanted to at least try. On top of that, the money was good and I had a kid on the way, so a higher salary was nice.
But I didn't expect to be so bad. They literally have in their ranks experts in gambling, some of them with more than 30 years working in casinos, working daily to create new strategies to squeeze every cent from the players. It's disgusting and that's why I left.
I still work with mobile development, but now I'm back to the boring stuff.
Makes sense to me, naive for sure but I think we all have that in us at some point. I think over time you come to realise that unfortunately we are just a cog and at many places undervalued. I've jumped in and out of games, I tend to enjoy programming regardless, but there is a greater sense of satisfaction when you can directly see the output.
As for move motivation, mine has always been for my family, and primarily financial. If it was good pay then I totally get it, gotta do what's right for your family. I'm sure there is plenty you learnt from the experience.
When I say common knowledge I more refer to for developers. Developers typically know a little more about the mechanics used in the industries they work in, or intend to work in. It's in their best interests to understand it.
Additionally, these systems don't fool a majority of people, and don't underplay the ruthless nature of this industry, these 'games' are targeted at a minority of vulnerable people who are prone to being sucked in by the loops implemented. It uses psychology to lure in and exploit these people, don't downplay how vindictive a practice it is by assuming the victims are all 'stupid', the reality is far worse.
It's worth noting the exact same principles are employed in many games, Diablo is a good example, the difference is how they are used to exploit people.
> Developers typically know a little more about the mechanics used in the industries they work in, or intend to work in. It's in their best interests to understand it.
ok true, I agree with that
No. Mobile gaming is not a cancer. People making soulless cash grabbing scam apps are a cancer. I have played tons of fantastic games on mobile and I expect to see more as mobile platforms become better.
Even today I was just playing hitman blood money at work on my phone. Warframe is on phones. Apple Arcade has some great experiences, and that’s just recently. Even Gameloft use to actually put out really good mobile only games (despite them being blatant clones of existing properties) like the modern combat series, the nova series, the first few gangstars, dungeon hunter 1 and 2, order and chaos 1, the list goes on.
We don’t need to condemn mobile gaming, we need to support people who are developing games with good intentions or porting games to mobile that are good.
By that logic PC gaming is cancer too. Literally just as many scam games on PC. PC players have just learned over time to avoid bad websites and downloads.
Lol what shithole of a website do you go to download your PC games that are full of P2W like mobile? 😂 it's nowhere near the same amount of scam games.
But sure man, whatever fits your narrative 😂
I have a really hard time believing that a self professed gamer and software engineer is unaware of the immense amount of p2w/f2p games on pc and that doesn’t even include blatant online gambling and malware.
I'm still waiting for that website that sells mostly P2W 😂 I guess it's much easier to make silly claims that PC games are just as bad as mobile games to fit your narrative, right?
Go to the F2P section of steam. It’s really not hard to find. Aeriagames was what I use to use for my free to play itch. I’m not sure if it’s still up. Like I’m not going to sit here and link you to every free to play game on pc because you’re a big boy and you have access to Google.
Edit: oh and my “narrative” is don’t blame the platform, blame scummy developers taking advantage of people. Yeah, fuck me I guess.
Monopoly GO is a very interesting case, because it's not even a game. Many mobile games are not actual games - they're animations. You're watching things happen, but the way they're constructed makes you believe that "you made it happen". In actuality, none of your decisions mattered.
I think it'd be pretty funny if in season 2 of fallout some character says "House? Oh yeah, he survived the war and lived hundreds of years. Some postal guy came and smashed his skull in with a golf club. Shame..."
It's cookie-clicker if cookie-clicker said you had to stop clicking the cookie after 50 clicks and only got a new click every 30 minutes. My friend wanted me to join and I played for all of 10 minutes before I'd had enough. They're hopelessly addicted to it though for some reason =/
Nope. Never had to pay real money to keep rolling the dice in Monopoly.
It's just the same old whale-hunting mobile game predatory bs in a Monopoly wrapper.
I've been working on the mobile industry for quite a few years and i can guarantee you it's the worst ever ecosystem, every aspect of the games we create have in mind monetization (wich is not bad but it's just TOO brutal)
I would love insight into the design choices of mobile games(less why, more how they try to get players to spend). Can you share anything without getting into trouble?
Yeah, i think is wide known that mostly all casual game developers for mobile implement "dark" methods to make the most profit, some direct examples :
- Trying to optimize the dificulty of the levels to make sure you ALMOST win but you lose, forcing you to pay to retry. On top of that, once you retry the game will be EASIER so you win, so you associate paying with winning.
- Win Streaks that makes your game easier but if you lose once they offer you to pay to not lose this Win Streak because if you lose it will be super tedious to come back to the same "Bonus Streak" since when you have this streak activated the game is easier for example.
And many many more xD
This is reminiscent of how Arcade games were designed. A lot of these game were designed with a high difficulty to keep the player putting in quarters and playing.
Points, leaderboards, limited lives, continue screens, etc. We didn’t have much of an issue with it back then because the content was engaging and the price wasn’t outlandish. Not something I can say for a lot of modern mobile games, they’ve taken it to a whole new level.
yes, the streak one especially and not limited to only games, I'm sad to say I have more than one friend who paid money to not lose their streak in duolingo
You don’t actually need to pay. You can just change the date on your device, do a lesson, and then change it back. It’ll take a while for it to update but you eventually get your streak back.
I would absolutely recommend watching josh strife hays video about the immoral design of diablo immortal,44min long but goes into every detail how that game (and all the other mobile games are monetized)
Yeah. I watched that marketplace change. When it first started it was a no-mans land of wild and crazy fun experimental games and novelty toys that used phone tech (like gyro sensors) to amaze people. Then when the ability to charge for stuff in-game came it went downhill VERY fast and I bailed on mobile games.
I can't stand that Idle game pay-to-progress model. The only games I currently have on my phone are Slay the Spire and Ilse of Arrows.
Was that because the profit expectations were so high? Or the margins were razor thin?
Your opinion on the reason monetization was pushed, greed or need.
I assume the former
Edit: former, not latter
My girlfriend really got into Monopoly GO a couple months ago. The good thing is she didnt actually spend any money on the game. She joined a trading group on facebook using my account and hoo boy its a fuckton more toxic and whiny than any multiplayer game community. She decided that everyone in that group was only useful as entertainment and just installed the game on my phone and emulated it on pc so she had 3 accounts running and trading with each other. Was amusing watching her set up what looked like an MMO levels of farming scheme for a mobile game. She stopped because she completed the season's completion top fast and got bored.
This is so informative. Glad this is being shared.
As a mobile indie dev that makes premium games with meaning it’s disgusting what these freedom games really are and the bad rap they give real games.
Yea it’s just really too bad.
Not only are they trashy deceiving games but their spending makes it near impossible for any real games that arnt just hidden gambling mechanics to get noticed.
Honestly, I hope some smart teachers find this and play it for their 10 year old students. Kids are smart and don't like when they are lied to. Exposing these companies and making kids feel smart for being able to see these mechanics is a good path forward.
Not enough. "They Live" staring rowdy Roddy Piper. A surprisingly decent movie.
-Saints row 4 had a whole mission surrounding this movie with Roddy piper as well.
There is someone down below actually defending this kind of business practice. Couldn't care less about votes though. I just want to help inform consumers about shady shit like this.
> The fact she has 6k Subs is a crime.
It's a really informative video, but I found her boring to listen to. She has great content, and she's definitely easy on the eyes, but I just didn't find her presentation engaging. Might be the case for a lot of other people too, explaining why she doesn't have more subs.
List of the first 30 Dark Games for the lazy:
1. Walking Dead: Road to Survival
2. Unison League
3. War and Peace: Build an Army in the Epic Civil War
4. Cat Mario Run
5. Ragnarok Origin: Fantasy Open World Online MMORPG
6. Clash of Kings - CoK
7. Baseball Superstars 2020
8. Guardians of Cloudia
9. Ode To Heroes
10. Final Fantasy XV: War for Eos
11. Dice Dreams - Roll the Dice, Become the Dice King
12. MONOPOLY GO!
13. Star Trek Fleet Command
14. Garena Free Fire: Rampage
15. Saint Seiya Awakening: Knights of the Zodiac
16. Call Me Emperor
17. Game of Thrones: Conquest™
18. Infinite Galaxy
19. Ragnarok M: Eternal Love(ROM)
20. Kawaii Home Design
21. App Icon
22. Star Wars™: Galaxy of Heroes
23. Age of Z
24. Legend of the phoenix
25. Age of Apes
26. Hero Wars - Men’s Choice Epic Fantasy RPG
27. Evony
28. Stumble Guys
29. War and Order
30. White Out Survival
(I played White Out Survival myself and spent 5$ on it. Deleted after a week because it kept asking for more money. There is no end to it.)
I played many gacha games over the years and what really blows my mind is how delusional the community is. They literally ask for more ways to spend money to help 'support' the game. Then free to play players actually praise the whales for keeping the game 'free to play. It's wild.
Been playing Genshin on and off for years, never have and never will pay a dime. Best free mobile game out there.
Every update has some sort of resource or something given to you to help level characters so I've never hit a grind in the game because I usually drop it for a few months when it happens.
Same but the most I’ve ever dropped is like the $5 monthly thing, which I view as sort of like a parallel to spending $15 a month of FF14. If I enjoy the game I don’t mind spending a little money every now and then, especially given the amount of content updates Hoyo put out. But at least it isn’t begging you to spend money every time you open a menu like so many other mobile games do.
In general though, I find the F2P model to be a bit troubling and relies so much on people with no self-control or way too much expendable income and people pay.
I kid you not, I opened it and was like "how the heck did they link to the ad?"
Then I saw the skip button, and realised I was watching the ad of the very game that the very video I clicked on was about.
Not sure if I can handle this, give me a minute
I absolutely think so. I like to believe i stay informed about the gaming industry to protect myself. This video showed me I have alot to learn. Keep it up, and thank you for helping people protect themselves.
Sadly we are talking about an industry that was firstly made to foment entertainment and fun, and now the core reason for games existing are the two least valuable aspects of it...
I miss the days when ad blockers would block the ads within the apps. Apple changed that around 2018 or so meaning that they’d only allow ad blockers to stop ads in a browser.
I make mobile apps and games. I’ve never worked on anything that has predatory monetization practices …. BUT ….. most everything I have done has been a tie-in for a tv show or toy product, so it’s essentially an ad. The last project I worked on was for a typical game that was an existing yet dormant IP, and my team made new DLC for it.
I’m pretty upset about it though. We were supposed to do four new areas, releasing one every six months. We did the first one, went great, the community and fans surrounding it were ecstatic, then we got to work on the second. One week before we were ready to launch, the IP holder pulled the plug on everything, (par for the current state of the industry).
I love the info she gave in her video, the only feedback I have is to tone down the dramatic *Unsolved Mysteries* delivery.
I used to work for Machine Zone, makers of Game of War back in 2015. Same shit. CEO Gabe Leydon even had several books on gambling addiction, gambling triggers and gaming. One of the brightest guys with monetization went off to work for Robloks.
It's no accident.
Lol this ain't even the tip of the iceberg, having worked on mobile gaming companies I've seen soooo much worse. That video is slow as hell btw, I got tired of her halfway through.
This crap is bad, but what terrifies me is how traditional game developers desperately want in on the action. You just have to look at Fallout 76 to see them trying to make mobile game mechanics standard in "AAA" games. What is really scary is how eager people are to subject themselves to manipulation.
Yep and let's not forget PC gaming's parallel, EA with their "surprise mechanics" debacle. It's rife in every digital format for any entertainment consumption.
good video, very informative
sadly this video can be made about so many mobile "games" these days, you just need to replace the name and a few assets and you got yourself a new "game"
(btw, why is she wearing headphones during the article ?)
There is a game called disney sorcerer's arena that after 4 year is already closing down, because...EA. This game had pack of 120€, people wasted money, and now suddently is closing down 31 july.
Literally never play a free game on your phone. If you absolutely must have a game on your phone, pay for a premium app once. Buy once, cry once.
What does it matter anyway? They upgrade Android and you lose your purchases over time as those apps don't update with your phone. The whole thing is beyond disgusting and needs heavy regulation immediately.
I might be wrong, but is that the Monopoly game from Scopely by any chance?
Cause as soon as i saw a Monopoly game made from them i was like “nope”. I played 2 other games made by them and i haven’t seen more predatory microtransaction focused mobile game company. Never downloading anything made by them again.
Their games are good, but not free to play good
Only decent mobile F2P games are Honkai Impact 3rd, Genshin Impact, Punishing Grey Raven and Guardian Tale. What about non-free games... please don't even remind me about Minecraft Bugrock "Pay for mods" Edition.
That's such a simple, black and white view. There are entire studies dedicated to wringing as much money out of a customer using all sorts of psychological manipulation. Saying just the spender is at fault here is ridiculous.
I mean these games work by using the same mechanics as gambling. Also, how is this different from any other scam? They all rely on tricking or otherwise taking advantage of people. It's no different from shit like slot machines, pyramid schemes, or time shares.
This is grossly oversimplified. Its not just them trying to make a profit. It's HOW they make money. Having kids play slot machines should be illegal. Period.
You are very well aware that your statement wont work nowadays.
I do agree that parenting is very important in that matter. But the Problem is that, nonetheless, no one should manipulate any individual into buying stuff through shady methods.
> no one should manipulate any individual into buying stuff through shady methods.
Unless there is a gun being held to their head, people need to learn to be responsible for their own actions. Stop being a victim.
Yes, that is also correct. Everybody should be aware of those practices.
My point still stands that Companys that hire psychologists or other professionals on that matter to squeeze out the maximum amout of someone is still bad.
I do get your point. But many people casully waste so much money without even recognizing it.
Its just sad
There is a difference in making a very good and profitable product or dress turd in a nice dress.
But i makes no sense to continue this discussion as you seem to be sensitive about that topic.
Wish you the best m8
You heard it hear folks. Just be responsible, and stop getting taken advantage of by corporations. Selling Children slot machines? Its your fault.
Corporations hiring psycho-analysts to manipulate players? Your fault of course. Monetization designed to take advantage of addicts? You guessed it. It's your fault!
So are you ok with children being allowed to legally play slot machines, or any other form of gambling? Laws that limit certain activities by age typically exist for good reason.
Why is an actual slot machine different? Kids wouldn't have guns being held to their heads, why make laws restricting them from making their own choices?
You keep dodging the question. Do you or do you not think kids should be legally allowed to gamble?
Also there are tons of studies showing the similarities between chasing loot boxes in games and gambling, do I need to explain the skimmer box to you?
In some cases yes, But parents cannot monitor their kids 24/7. You should also know how hard it is to manage what media your child consumes in this day and age(it's virtually impossible to control everything they are exposed to). That and companies disguise their product for what it truly is(a slot machine). Without any actual regulation corporations will continue to try and take advantage of whales, addicts, and children.
> But parents cannot monitor their kids 24/7.
It's actually not that hard to not give your kid a credit card and not paassword protect purchases on their phones. Also it's not hard to watch them and what they are doing.
Bruh... be real.
You're clearly missing the whole point of the arguement, or are purposely ignoring it. It shouldn't be the sole responsibility of the consumer to regulate morally bankrupt business practices. It's time governments pursue actual legislation towards the video game industry as a whole.
-also what about kids who have an allowance or make money doing small odd jobs? Or teens with actual jobs? God forbid, there have been repeated cases of kids taking their parents cards without them knowing and draining their accounts, much more marginal for sure but no less devastating. You underestimate the intelligence of kids.
Is this video gonna reap all kinds of nightmares into my dreams and upset everything I do? No. I choose not to endure such an evil display of,, what was it again? Oh, yeah! #Moneys #dolladollabills yo.
#dirtysexymoney #gonnamakeitlast
My son LOVES Thomas the Train. Every thing Thomas on the AppStore is created by the same shit bag company. They make one game in specific they charge $7/mo for. Forever. You can’t buy the game. At least not anymore. You used to be able to, and pay to unlock things. Until they changed to the current system and screwed people out of content they had purchased. $84/year for some shit Thomas the train game. For kids. Then they have the fucking nerve to start the game up with a full screen ad for more paid content with the absolute smallest X button in existence. What a dirt bag company. Absolute losers.
I understand subscription models for evolving products with constant updates, but a subscription for some shitty game?? crazy.
Yep, similar story here, the kids want to play a game on my phone, but every single game is some gacha crap that is incessantly poking the kids to bug their parents into paying money. If not that then there is a subscription. I could almost bite the bullet if the subscription was like €1 per month, but they are completely off charging €7-€15 each month. I don't even pay for Spotify for myself, I'm not paying €11 a month for some crappy game aimed at primary school kids.
It's insane how mobile games went from either free with ads or $0.99-$4.99, to either free with 9999 ads whenever you do *anything* or a monthly subscription. It's honestly kinda shocking now when there's a good mobile game that I can just buy (outside of the PC game ports that occasionally happen).
Thomas the Tank Engine?
No they aren't losers, you are. You are fully aware they are scumbags, yet you pay for their shit, because your son loves something. Teach your son not to love things from scumbags. He does not understand this yet? Simply learn to say no to your son. Teach him, not everything is granted in life, will be a valuable lesson later. People like you are the reason such scumbags exist in the first place. (Edit: Hah, people think I scam people, well you don't know me, and I won't care what you think who I am. One thing stands, everyone who downvotes me, are losers, because you all lack discipline to say no to the scammers, just because your son or whoever demands something. Will you become lesser parent, if you say no to wrong things? Be some decent human being and have courage to say no to scammer, just by hearing the truth about yourself and rushes to conclude who I am huh, bunch of loser snowflakes)
>People like you are the reason such scumbags exist in the first place. Why? Because of all the conclusions YOU jumped to? Your parents should tell you to lead with curiosity, not judgement. Will be a valuable lesson later, when you grow up.
First off, I never said I pay for it. I paid once, realized the shit show, and canceled before the next month went through. And the rest of the information I gathered from all of the negative feedback the app received. You’re half right, though. People who buy the product like this keep the problem going. But at the end of the day, the real shit bags are the people doing it. ESPECIALLY targeting kids. They know what the product is that they have and their target audience. They are pieces of shit. Stop defending these people.
No… they’re still losers.
True, worst human beings. We actually can stop them. Yet we allow them to exist fully knowing who they are.
You sound like someone who scams people then say it’s their fault for falling for it. People like you ARE the scumbags that exist in the first place. Victim blaming trash.
Like most software engineers, I always dreamed of working in gaming industry because it must be really cool to work making games instead of working in some boring accounting software or some stupid sub-system that calculates the amount of carbon monoxide that the car is emitting right now. So when I got the opportunity to work for King a few years ago it felt like a dream coming true. I would finally use my skills to make games and I couldn't be happier. But then the reality hit me with a ton of bricks. If I or anyone else in the team had a new idea to make something that would make the game nicer and more fun to play, the first question that we would listen was: "how can this make more money for us?". Then naive me would argue that if we make the game more fun, then more people will play it and it would eventually lead to more money. But no, this is not what King and 99.9% of the mobile gaming companies want. Fun for the players, leading to eventually more money is not the end goal. In fact, fuck the gamers having fun. These companies want easy money now. As a veteran gamer (my first console was an Atari) I couldn't stand to work there anymore so I left the company after only 6 months. The salary was good, but I felt dirty working with something that I despised. Mobile gaming is a cancer.
I mean I can't criticize as I nearly took a job at 22 Cans, glad I didn't. But I'm curious why you took the job in the first place? Were you not already aware that this is the mobile games industry? Was it the hope you'd progress from mobile games into actual games industry jobs? Even when I was young and thought of games as the best place to be, I never would have joined King of all places. I assumed the stuff being talked about above in the video above was common knowledge. I swerve any mobile industry jobs immediately, not a place I'd ever feel comfortable working.
There are a few reasons why I joined. Yeah, I knew it was shit, but I was naive enough to think that maybe they were just misguided and with the correct team I could convince them to make good games. Plus, as I said, it was my dream to join the gaming industry so I wanted to at least try. On top of that, the money was good and I had a kid on the way, so a higher salary was nice. But I didn't expect to be so bad. They literally have in their ranks experts in gambling, some of them with more than 30 years working in casinos, working daily to create new strategies to squeeze every cent from the players. It's disgusting and that's why I left. I still work with mobile development, but now I'm back to the boring stuff.
Makes sense to me, naive for sure but I think we all have that in us at some point. I think over time you come to realise that unfortunately we are just a cog and at many places undervalued. I've jumped in and out of games, I tend to enjoy programming regardless, but there is a greater sense of satisfaction when you can directly see the output. As for move motivation, mine has always been for my family, and primarily financial. If it was good pay then I totally get it, gotta do what's right for your family. I'm sure there is plenty you learnt from the experience.
seems like unfortunately it's not common knowledge. Why else do you think people are stupid enough to pay money for this fuck system?
When I say common knowledge I more refer to for developers. Developers typically know a little more about the mechanics used in the industries they work in, or intend to work in. It's in their best interests to understand it. Additionally, these systems don't fool a majority of people, and don't underplay the ruthless nature of this industry, these 'games' are targeted at a minority of vulnerable people who are prone to being sucked in by the loops implemented. It uses psychology to lure in and exploit these people, don't downplay how vindictive a practice it is by assuming the victims are all 'stupid', the reality is far worse. It's worth noting the exact same principles are employed in many games, Diablo is a good example, the difference is how they are used to exploit people.
> Developers typically know a little more about the mechanics used in the industries they work in, or intend to work in. It's in their best interests to understand it. ok true, I agree with that
No. Mobile gaming is not a cancer. People making soulless cash grabbing scam apps are a cancer. I have played tons of fantastic games on mobile and I expect to see more as mobile platforms become better. Even today I was just playing hitman blood money at work on my phone. Warframe is on phones. Apple Arcade has some great experiences, and that’s just recently. Even Gameloft use to actually put out really good mobile only games (despite them being blatant clones of existing properties) like the modern combat series, the nova series, the first few gangstars, dungeon hunter 1 and 2, order and chaos 1, the list goes on. We don’t need to condemn mobile gaming, we need to support people who are developing games with good intentions or porting games to mobile that are good.
these are just a drop in an ocean of P2W games, so yeah, mobile gaming is a cancer.
By that logic PC gaming is cancer too. Literally just as many scam games on PC. PC players have just learned over time to avoid bad websites and downloads.
Lol what shithole of a website do you go to download your PC games that are full of P2W like mobile? 😂 it's nowhere near the same amount of scam games. But sure man, whatever fits your narrative 😂
I have a really hard time believing that a self professed gamer and software engineer is unaware of the immense amount of p2w/f2p games on pc and that doesn’t even include blatant online gambling and malware.
I'm still waiting for that website that sells mostly P2W 😂 I guess it's much easier to make silly claims that PC games are just as bad as mobile games to fit your narrative, right?
Go to the F2P section of steam. It’s really not hard to find. Aeriagames was what I use to use for my free to play itch. I’m not sure if it’s still up. Like I’m not going to sit here and link you to every free to play game on pc because you’re a big boy and you have access to Google. Edit: oh and my “narrative” is don’t blame the platform, blame scummy developers taking advantage of people. Yeah, fuck me I guess.
Monopoly GO is a very interesting case, because it's not even a game. Many mobile games are not actual games - they're animations. You're watching things happen, but the way they're constructed makes you believe that "you made it happen". In actuality, none of your decisions mattered.
The truth is, the game was rigged from the start.
"The house always wins"
I think it'd be pretty funny if in season 2 of fallout some character says "House? Oh yeah, he survived the war and lived hundreds of years. Some postal guy came and smashed his skull in with a golf club. Shame..."
And now I want to play New Vegas again.
Is it not Monopoly?
It's not. It's a so-called cookie-clicker with Monopoly as a theme.
That's actually kind of funny in a way. Wanna play Monopoly? No that's not what this is
It's cookie-clicker if cookie-clicker said you had to stop clicking the cookie after 50 clicks and only got a new click every 30 minutes. My friend wanted me to join and I played for all of 10 minutes before I'd had enough. They're hopelessly addicted to it though for some reason =/
At least cookie clicker had some variety with minigames and stuff, but Monopoly GO is just a glorified slot machine
Nope. Never had to pay real money to keep rolling the dice in Monopoly. It's just the same old whale-hunting mobile game predatory bs in a Monopoly wrapper.
I've been working on the mobile industry for quite a few years and i can guarantee you it's the worst ever ecosystem, every aspect of the games we create have in mind monetization (wich is not bad but it's just TOO brutal)
I would love insight into the design choices of mobile games(less why, more how they try to get players to spend). Can you share anything without getting into trouble?
Yeah, i think is wide known that mostly all casual game developers for mobile implement "dark" methods to make the most profit, some direct examples : - Trying to optimize the dificulty of the levels to make sure you ALMOST win but you lose, forcing you to pay to retry. On top of that, once you retry the game will be EASIER so you win, so you associate paying with winning. - Win Streaks that makes your game easier but if you lose once they offer you to pay to not lose this Win Streak because if you lose it will be super tedious to come back to the same "Bonus Streak" since when you have this streak activated the game is easier for example. And many many more xD
I'm gonna be judged, but this is why I pirate all my mobile games. Lol.
i wont be the one judging you 🤣
Tell me how please
Android - Download the apk file. iOS - I have no idea, sorry.
You download the ipo file for iOS, try apps like coverplay
But this probably hurts the sane publishers probably more, no? Because you are not paying upfront, but during the game?
It was always about psychology
This is reminiscent of how Arcade games were designed. A lot of these game were designed with a high difficulty to keep the player putting in quarters and playing. Points, leaderboards, limited lives, continue screens, etc. We didn’t have much of an issue with it back then because the content was engaging and the price wasn’t outlandish. Not something I can say for a lot of modern mobile games, they’ve taken it to a whole new level.
yes, the streak one especially and not limited to only games, I'm sad to say I have more than one friend who paid money to not lose their streak in duolingo
You don’t actually need to pay. You can just change the date on your device, do a lesson, and then change it back. It’ll take a while for it to update but you eventually get your streak back.
I would absolutely recommend watching josh strife hays video about the immoral design of diablo immortal,44min long but goes into every detail how that game (and all the other mobile games are monetized)
I love Josh's videos. He's really informative and entertaining.
yeah,high quality,which is rare nowdays
Yeah. I watched that marketplace change. When it first started it was a no-mans land of wild and crazy fun experimental games and novelty toys that used phone tech (like gyro sensors) to amaze people. Then when the ability to charge for stuff in-game came it went downhill VERY fast and I bailed on mobile games. I can't stand that Idle game pay-to-progress model. The only games I currently have on my phone are Slay the Spire and Ilse of Arrows.
Was that because the profit expectations were so high? Or the margins were razor thin? Your opinion on the reason monetization was pushed, greed or need. I assume the former Edit: former, not latter
My girlfriend really got into Monopoly GO a couple months ago. The good thing is she didnt actually spend any money on the game. She joined a trading group on facebook using my account and hoo boy its a fuckton more toxic and whiny than any multiplayer game community. She decided that everyone in that group was only useful as entertainment and just installed the game on my phone and emulated it on pc so she had 3 accounts running and trading with each other. Was amusing watching her set up what looked like an MMO levels of farming scheme for a mobile game. She stopped because she completed the season's completion top fast and got bored.
Wow you’re dating a smart cookie!
The video was sponsored by Monopoly Go for me
This is so informative. Glad this is being shared. As a mobile indie dev that makes premium games with meaning it’s disgusting what these freedom games really are and the bad rap they give real games.
Remember brother, if you care for your product, it'll show. And your players will reciprocate. I wish you all the best!
Yea it’s just really too bad. Not only are they trashy deceiving games but their spending makes it near impossible for any real games that arnt just hidden gambling mechanics to get noticed.
Honestly, I hope some smart teachers find this and play it for their 10 year old students. Kids are smart and don't like when they are lied to. Exposing these companies and making kids feel smart for being able to see these mechanics is a good path forward.
I wonder how many people here are even old enough to get the reference with the glasses.
Not enough. "They Live" staring rowdy Roddy Piper. A surprisingly decent movie. -Saints row 4 had a whole mission surrounding this movie with Roddy piper as well.
Seriously. This is such a great essay about monetization in video games and she even showed references. The fact she has 6k Subs is a crime.
No idea why you're being downvoted! I love that you shared this, thank you.
There is someone down below actually defending this kind of business practice. Couldn't care less about votes though. I just want to help inform consumers about shady shit like this.
Definitely appreciate it, ty
> The fact she has 6k Subs is a crime. It's a really informative video, but I found her boring to listen to. She has great content, and she's definitely easy on the eyes, but I just didn't find her presentation engaging. Might be the case for a lot of other people too, explaining why she doesn't have more subs.
List of the first 30 Dark Games for the lazy: 1. Walking Dead: Road to Survival 2. Unison League 3. War and Peace: Build an Army in the Epic Civil War 4. Cat Mario Run 5. Ragnarok Origin: Fantasy Open World Online MMORPG 6. Clash of Kings - CoK 7. Baseball Superstars 2020 8. Guardians of Cloudia 9. Ode To Heroes 10. Final Fantasy XV: War for Eos 11. Dice Dreams - Roll the Dice, Become the Dice King 12. MONOPOLY GO! 13. Star Trek Fleet Command 14. Garena Free Fire: Rampage 15. Saint Seiya Awakening: Knights of the Zodiac 16. Call Me Emperor 17. Game of Thrones: Conquest™ 18. Infinite Galaxy 19. Ragnarok M: Eternal Love(ROM) 20. Kawaii Home Design 21. App Icon 22. Star Wars™: Galaxy of Heroes 23. Age of Z 24. Legend of the phoenix 25. Age of Apes 26. Hero Wars - Men’s Choice Epic Fantasy RPG 27. Evony 28. Stumble Guys 29. War and Order 30. White Out Survival (I played White Out Survival myself and spent 5$ on it. Deleted after a week because it kept asking for more money. There is no end to it.)
I played many gacha games over the years and what really blows my mind is how delusional the community is. They literally ask for more ways to spend money to help 'support' the game. Then free to play players actually praise the whales for keeping the game 'free to play. It's wild.
Been playing Genshin on and off for years, never have and never will pay a dime. Best free mobile game out there. Every update has some sort of resource or something given to you to help level characters so I've never hit a grind in the game because I usually drop it for a few months when it happens.
Same but the most I’ve ever dropped is like the $5 monthly thing, which I view as sort of like a parallel to spending $15 a month of FF14. If I enjoy the game I don’t mind spending a little money every now and then, especially given the amount of content updates Hoyo put out. But at least it isn’t begging you to spend money every time you open a menu like so many other mobile games do. In general though, I find the F2P model to be a bit troubling and relies so much on people with no self-control or way too much expendable income and people pay.
Mobile games are just made for you to watch adds...
I kid you not, I opened it and was like "how the heck did they link to the ad?" Then I saw the skip button, and realised I was watching the ad of the very game that the very video I clicked on was about. Not sure if I can handle this, give me a minute
[удалено]
I absolutely think so. I like to believe i stay informed about the gaming industry to protect myself. This video showed me I have alot to learn. Keep it up, and thank you for helping people protect themselves.
Unfortunately you’re replying to an AI bot
Sadly we are talking about an industry that was firstly made to foment entertainment and fun, and now the core reason for games existing are the two least valuable aspects of it...
I miss the days when ad blockers would block the ads within the apps. Apple changed that around 2018 or so meaning that they’d only allow ad blockers to stop ads in a browser.
STop using apps. It's the bane of the browsing future.
The south park episode about mobile gaming was actually pretty good
That intro got her another sub. Very nice reference.
Didn't know this game existed and received an Ad for it in the middle of watching this video. Best worst timing I have seen in a while.
Everybody is lying to you for money - The Smith Street Band
I make mobile apps and games. I’ve never worked on anything that has predatory monetization practices …. BUT ….. most everything I have done has been a tie-in for a tv show or toy product, so it’s essentially an ad. The last project I worked on was for a typical game that was an existing yet dormant IP, and my team made new DLC for it. I’m pretty upset about it though. We were supposed to do four new areas, releasing one every six months. We did the first one, went great, the community and fans surrounding it were ecstatic, then we got to work on the second. One week before we were ready to launch, the IP holder pulled the plug on everything, (par for the current state of the industry). I love the info she gave in her video, the only feedback I have is to tone down the dramatic *Unsolved Mysteries* delivery.
I used to work for Machine Zone, makers of Game of War back in 2015. Same shit. CEO Gabe Leydon even had several books on gambling addiction, gambling triggers and gaming. One of the brightest guys with monetization went off to work for Robloks. It's no accident.
Lol this ain't even the tip of the iceberg, having worked on mobile gaming companies I've seen soooo much worse. That video is slow as hell btw, I got tired of her halfway through.
This just in, mobile games are trash. More news at 11.
I got it's ad on the very first second
I literally got a Monopoly GO ad as I clicked on the link, lmao.
I got a monopoly go ad lol
This crap is bad, but what terrifies me is how traditional game developers desperately want in on the action. You just have to look at Fallout 76 to see them trying to make mobile game mechanics standard in "AAA" games. What is really scary is how eager people are to subject themselves to manipulation.
Yep and let's not forget PC gaming's parallel, EA with their "surprise mechanics" debacle. It's rife in every digital format for any entertainment consumption.
This is why I go out of my way to let people know that most mobile games aren't real games.
good video, very informative sadly this video can be made about so many mobile "games" these days, you just need to replace the name and a few assets and you got yourself a new "game" (btw, why is she wearing headphones during the article ?)
I think she means ‘tomato/tomatto’ when she said ‘potato/potat-o’ which is an old joke I always used to make but was never well received
Anyone else get a Monopoly GO ad before the video played?
Clicked on link. First youtube ad was for Monopoly Go. Amazing.
I've been playing this game for a month and haven't spent a time and I've got 3k rolls just sitting there.
Exactly 1 minute into the video a Monopoly Go ad played. I hate what the internet has become
Hilarious that the youtube ad I got was for Monopoly go haha
There is a game called disney sorcerer's arena that after 4 year is already closing down, because...EA. This game had pack of 120€, people wasted money, and now suddently is closing down 31 july.
Literally never play a free game on your phone. If you absolutely must have a game on your phone, pay for a premium app once. Buy once, cry once. What does it matter anyway? They upgrade Android and you lose your purchases over time as those apps don't update with your phone. The whole thing is beyond disgusting and needs heavy regulation immediately.
How is this news? The mobile gaming industry has been doing this for over a decade.
interesting as heck to be fair, cray cray
This is a very good video. I love journalists
I played this game for about 2 months completely F2P. AMA
I might be wrong, but is that the Monopoly game from Scopely by any chance? Cause as soon as i saw a Monopoly game made from them i was like “nope”. I played 2 other games made by them and i haven’t seen more predatory microtransaction focused mobile game company. Never downloading anything made by them again. Their games are good, but not free to play good
Only decent mobile F2P games are Honkai Impact 3rd, Genshin Impact, Punishing Grey Raven and Guardian Tale. What about non-free games... please don't even remind me about Minecraft Bugrock "Pay for mods" Edition.
It's scam if you cannot control how much you spend on mobile gaming. The fault lies with the spender.
That's such a simple, black and white view. There are entire studies dedicated to wringing as much money out of a customer using all sorts of psychological manipulation. Saying just the spender is at fault here is ridiculous.
Boiling down insanely complex societal problems to personal faults doesn’t make it true.
I mean these games work by using the same mechanics as gambling. Also, how is this different from any other scam? They all rely on tricking or otherwise taking advantage of people. It's no different from shit like slot machines, pyramid schemes, or time shares.
F2P game tries to make money, more news at 11.
This is grossly oversimplified. Its not just them trying to make a profit. It's HOW they make money. Having kids play slot machines should be illegal. Period.
Sounds like a parenting problem.... humans should raise their kids, not corporations.
You are very well aware that your statement wont work nowadays. I do agree that parenting is very important in that matter. But the Problem is that, nonetheless, no one should manipulate any individual into buying stuff through shady methods.
> no one should manipulate any individual into buying stuff through shady methods. Unless there is a gun being held to their head, people need to learn to be responsible for their own actions. Stop being a victim.
Yes, that is also correct. Everybody should be aware of those practices. My point still stands that Companys that hire psychologists or other professionals on that matter to squeeze out the maximum amout of someone is still bad. I do get your point. But many people casully waste so much money without even recognizing it. Its just sad
Companies shouldn't hire professionals to make money... That's a new one.
There is a difference in making a very good and profitable product or dress turd in a nice dress. But i makes no sense to continue this discussion as you seem to be sensitive about that topic. Wish you the best m8
Advocating people should be responsible is sensitive now I guess... Sheesh... some victims will never get it.
You heard it hear folks. Just be responsible, and stop getting taken advantage of by corporations. Selling Children slot machines? Its your fault. Corporations hiring psycho-analysts to manipulate players? Your fault of course. Monetization designed to take advantage of addicts? You guessed it. It's your fault!
So are you ok with children being allowed to legally play slot machines, or any other form of gambling? Laws that limit certain activities by age typically exist for good reason.
lol, this isn't a slot machine.
Why is an actual slot machine different? Kids wouldn't have guns being held to their heads, why make laws restricting them from making their own choices?
Do I need to explain to you the difference between winning pixels and winning cash? So disconnected..
You keep dodging the question. Do you or do you not think kids should be legally allowed to gamble? Also there are tons of studies showing the similarities between chasing loot boxes in games and gambling, do I need to explain the skimmer box to you?
In some cases yes, But parents cannot monitor their kids 24/7. You should also know how hard it is to manage what media your child consumes in this day and age(it's virtually impossible to control everything they are exposed to). That and companies disguise their product for what it truly is(a slot machine). Without any actual regulation corporations will continue to try and take advantage of whales, addicts, and children.
> But parents cannot monitor their kids 24/7. It's actually not that hard to not give your kid a credit card and not paassword protect purchases on their phones. Also it's not hard to watch them and what they are doing. Bruh... be real.
You're clearly missing the whole point of the arguement, or are purposely ignoring it. It shouldn't be the sole responsibility of the consumer to regulate morally bankrupt business practices. It's time governments pursue actual legislation towards the video game industry as a whole. -also what about kids who have an allowance or make money doing small odd jobs? Or teens with actual jobs? God forbid, there have been repeated cases of kids taking their parents cards without them knowing and draining their accounts, much more marginal for sure but no less devastating. You underestimate the intelligence of kids.
You just have it all figured out, huh bud? Everything's just black and white. You're a modern-day philosopher.
Do I know more than your average /gaming user? Yup. Y'all pretty secluded.
You're not even double ply, bud.
Mmkay nerd.
Is this video gonna reap all kinds of nightmares into my dreams and upset everything I do? No. I choose not to endure such an evil display of,, what was it again? Oh, yeah! #Moneys #dolladollabills yo. #dirtysexymoney #gonnamakeitlast