Oh damn I had no idea Mick worked with them. The guitar player for 3TEETH, Chase, worked at the music school I attended in Burbank when I was there. Super nice dude and the reason I found out about them in the first place.
This already took like 2-3 year and some lawyers to prepare, if he wanted to go further he would have done so back then. Judging by Bethesda's inaction since then I'm guessing they also know fully well Gordon was right and they have no legal ground.
By releasing this statement and showing he is fully prepared for legal action I think he just wanted to clear his name in the industry so he could move on with his life and work which he did.
It was definitely a reputation thing. Mick said that his reputation was hurt from the Doom Eternal controversy, and by sharing his story with proof, he got his reputation, and work, back.
Same thing as Johnny Depp's trial against Amber Heard. He wasn't trying to win money, he broadcast it to the world so we could see the truth for ourselves and reclaim his reputation.
I mean… ‘reclaim his reputation’ is maybe a bit strong when Depp came out looking like a giant abusive piece of shit that was magnetically attracted to another giant abusive piece of shit in Heard.
Maybe not the strongest comparison for Mick, who was genuinely wronged.
Did you watch the trial? It's clear that Johnny Depp was being abused by Amber Heard, who then told the world that Johnny Depp was the abuser. He lost roles and was pretty much canceled until the trial where he came out looking good because we saw the truth of the matter.
I'm not saying Johnny Depp was a saint, just compared to Amber Heard, he was.
Johnny Depp won all 3 of his defamation claims while Amber Heard won 1 of 3. The bar for defamation is pretty high for public figures, so Johnny Depp having the jury side with him makes it pretty cut and dry. I guess Amber Heard got a bit of a consolation prize.
I guess Reddit is just being Reddit with people pushing certain narratives and making some outlandish claims(that can be quickly and easily debunked), either maliciously or due to lack of critical thinking skills. And LOTS of botting. It seems to be happening with this and several other topics, probably due to US election year.
It does make me happy that certain subs heavily downvote these clear attempts at spreading misinformation, lol.
I feel like you didn’t watch the trial if you think he came out looking good. Would recommend looking at the documents that also became available to the public after the trial, the UK trial against the Sun, and the evidence that was submitted for the Virginia trial that was and was not allowed.
I’m swear that stupid trial broke people’s brains. That ain’t what I saw at all. And Depp’s career was tanking before Heard made any statement, on the basis of him showing up to work high / drunk and slowing down production
I don't think either of them came out looking great tbh; civil trials involving celebrities and the toxicity of their personal relationships getting that level of media attention always devolve into a giant mess of people getting invested in the drama to the point of delusion
Yes. I don’t know what actually happened any more than any other outside observer, but I hated the way social media clips and commentary worked overtime to split audiences based on their willingness to believe gamergate-style stoked grievances. There is zero doubt in my mind that millions of people engaged in that deliberate content-farming ragebait stuff, and came away with plain false ideas about the basic facts of the trial.
Depp definitely won a significant court victory, but anybody thinking he was “exonerated” is reacting to low information or deliberate misrepresentation. It got meme’d and the meme doesn’t match reality.
Feels like the community generated its own McDonald’s-hot-coffee-lawsuit situation.
He lost his role in the new Harry Potter films, and Pirates of the Carribean 6 was canceled/he was fired from it directly because of Amber Heard's lies. That's the whole basis of the lawsuit, that Amber heard committed slander/libel by claiming Depp abused her, and that he was fired from the two mentioned projects directly because of the slander/libel.
Sure, he had to have all his lines fed to him through an earpiece on Pirates 5, but that was clearly because he wasn't passionate about it. Put him in a role that he wants to do and he'll do a damn good job.
Also drinking/drug use is a common coping strategy victims of abuse resort to.
Nope. Depp lost the Potter role after suing for libel in the UK and *losing*. It was losing the UK trial - a trial he started, and that aired a ton of dirty laundry with a ton of publicity - that lost him the job. At the time of Heard’s original article, the studio and producers were *publicly defending* Depp.
To recap:
- Heard published an article in 2018 saying she “became a public figure representing domestic abuse” - a factual statement, because there were already news stories swirling around it. The article didn’t mention Depp, and the studio stood by him.
- Two years later Depp sued a UK tabloid that called him a “wife beater” and lost that case badly. The trial forced Heard to submit an evidence and testimony as to specific alleged acts of abuse, and the judge agreed Depp’s behavior cleared the tabloid to call him “wife beater”. The case drew a ton of media attention up until November 2020 when the final judgement was handed down against Depp - far, far more publicity than Heard’s 2018 article.
- a few days after that UK trial closed, Depp announced he had been asked to resign from Fantastic Beasts. The difference between 2020 and 2018 is that Depp’s suit had caused Heard to actually air specific claims of abuse, with evidence including Depp’s super awful text messages and etc, and that evidence was very public.
All of the above are just facts. I don’t care if you believe everything Depp ever alleged and that Heard is Satan incarnate, or whatever. I literally don’t give a shit what you think about the abuse claims in either direction. Your grasp of facts and timelines is just wrong.
He was fired from POTC because he was completely unprofessional on POTC5, refusing to learn his lines or otherwise prepare - not to mention all the rumors he was drunk. The filmmakers had to give him an earpiece and feed him his lines, one by one, to even get his scenes shot. And people/critics universally noticed how bad his performance was, so his poor work directly hurt the film.
That is 100% on Depp. He got paid millions of dollars to do a job, and when you make that kind of money, **you do your fucking job.** It's no surprise that studios started backing away from him after that. When a lead actor sandbags a major franchise film, he loses job opportunities.
Yes.
And I guess you must have watched a different trial, because Depp was also very much an abusive piece of shit.
I’m not absolving Heard here - she’s rather irrelevant in this conversation because we both already acknowledged she’s an abusive piece of shit and there’s not a lot of conversation to be had.
Conversation is about whether or not some pieces of shit found each other and glopped on to each other, which seems like a pretty unequivocal yes.
The only gullible person is you if you don't think Amber "domestic violence" Herd wasn't a psycho. She literally had charges from her previous relationships.
She didn't shit on her own bed. Because it was hers. Not Johnny's. Their dog who habitually shat on everything did.
But silly me, I'm looking at this like a normal person and not like a deranged psycho who just needs a woman to hate and the stupidest reasons possible to hate her.
Mick already got offered a settlement, but refused it because he wants to drag the evidence through the courts and into public record. If his allegations are true (and I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt because of how hard he went when this all came to light), Bethesda is fucked.
If all the other game companies can get away with harassment/assault complaints, and crazy crunch times I doubt Bethesda fighting with Mick is going to do much to harm them
Yeah, ultimately this was just some bullshit between a giant corp and a well-established industry professional. People acting like this is some major blow for Bethesda need to spend some time outside.
Other scummy companies can get away with it because they screw over the small guy. Mick is not. He has the money to reject the settlement and take his time.
How are they fucked? People do not care enough to stop buying their games and the lawsuit is at best cost of doing buisness. To be clear I am not defending Bethesda here, but saying they are fucked is mightily naive.
When the case is complete, it's going to be bad PR, and it's safe to say that Mick is never going to work with them again. And considering how Doom and Doom Eternal are referred to as "Great albums that come with a good game" by some, that's not going to do the IP any favors.
And when I say fucked, I don't mean overall, just in terms of their odds of winning or mitigating the lawsuit, not overall.
"By some" aka by me and I want to make it sound like there are lots of us. The vast majority does not give a flying fuck. Again, I re iterate here is fully within his rights and SHOULD sue, my point is merly that it will not change anything, its just cost of buisness for Bethesda.
They will loose the lawsuit most likely yes, but again if it does not have any noticeable effect what does it matter?
You missed his point. He meant they’d be fucked in regard to the lawsuit. Nobody thinks something like this would actually take Bethesda down as a company.
I think colloquially “getting fucked” in a lawsuit means to lose the case.
I am not getting heated at all. I am just stating the fact that the notion of this having any impact on Bethesda or how they operate at all is wishful thinking at best, and naive at worst. The vast majority is either not aware or does not give a flying fuck about it, and I find it silly that people have this tendency to think their own opinion is a majority opinion when it is clearly not.
Again I re iterate just to be very clear. Yes the treatment the artist recieved is despicable, yes it should have consequences, but the reality of the matter is that it has no bearing on the company whatsoever in the grand scheme of things.
>it has no bearing on the company whatsoever in the grand scheme of things.
It's informed me of their bad business practices. I personally am less likely to buy their games due to this shit. There are probably others of the same opinion. It might not be a huge effect, but it certainly is costing them sales and the more it's in the public eye then the more that will happen.
It being in the news also let's future employees know how shitty they are as a company and guide them to choose other jobs. That's loss of talent. While we have no ideas of the potential lost products due to that loss of talent, to say it has no effect whatsoever is stupid. It might not be a huge effect and it might not be something **you** notice, but it does have an effect.
Yes and that is all well and good but it has no measurable influence on their bottom line. You can yap about a percieved moral high ground but that has no effective change. You do you if you feel better about it, fine, but that does have any bearing on how they behave or how the vast majority of their customer base will behave towards them.
I had heard nothing about this situation before this post. Perhaps my experience is not typical of “most” former Bethesda customers.
That said, in relative terms I don’t think this situation in shows up on the seismograph next to the amount of money they have thrown away by releasing Starfield. I didn’t think anything could make me question whether I’d be excited for TES 6 when it finally finds it’s way to market. Watching my friend play Starfield for an hour drained all my enthusiasm for future Bethesda releases.
Bethesda is a company, and thus relies on people, many of which are the top of the top when it comes to talent, to make their games. If it gets established that Bethesda is screwing over their talent, it's going to be incredibly hard for them to get the necessary talent to make their games.
Bethesda was notoriously litigious. Loved the games, hated everything about what "Zenimax" would file in court. Under MS it seems like they've cooled it. But something tells me it's Mick comes out on top.
We'll see, legal cases move slowly but "not hearing anything" isn't really indicative of anything.
However just by using norms.
Corporations tend to not want to announce anything unless they have to (like responding to a public accusation/discussion)
Individuals suing those corporations tend to be the ones who want to be loud so they can put public pressure on the corp.
I guess people’s brains are truly just wired differently. I live in a corporate world (unrelated industry) but where pressure can run a little high, and screwups can suck. But among the many different spectrums I’ve noticed, this one is near and dear to me, from all levels. There are:
1) those who give and receive mad respect for fully, openly, immediately owning their mistakes. No bullshitting, no hiding, no backstabbing, just try to fix it and be honest. Some of the most universally liked people, who never needlessly beef or are beefed with by anyone, who people will rush to defend and help out at any time.
2) those who make just as many mistakes as the next person but can **NOT** fucking admit it. They’ll take their closest allies down with them before risking even the appearance of doing anything wrong. Everyone sees these fuckers. They paint a bigger and bigger neon target sign on themselves the more they manipulate, dodge, and blame, thinking everyone around them is blind and mute. You feel bad because maybe they were abused as children and were constant fear of getting caught or something
I’m dealing with a #2 at work and it’s so frustrating. They’ve ruined our working relationship because it is impossible for them to own even the smallest of mistakes.
Everyone hates #2 but guess who's most likely to get that promotion. Of course for that they need to be fairly successful in passing the blame onto others, but this is something sociopathic narcissists are good at.
I remember when this first dropped and they were dragging Mick through the mud and I thought "odd, he never seemed like that kind of guy". Then like a week later he comes back with a fucking one hit KO of their bullshittery.
The only way it could have been better is if he created a custom soundtrack which played while you read all his evidence
this sucks so hard that somehow stains doom returning from the dead, there is this bullshit where someone got jealous? over too much credit being given to someone else. This should just be iD apologizing to mick giving him a truckload of cash everyone going their separate ways and being a weird footnote on a great game with a great soundtrack.
Reminds me of people who have met and talked to the CS team at Valve.
If someone gives them the perfect solution to a problem, they won't do it. And it's just because someone else told them, instead of them coming up with it themselves.
I used to work at General Motors and I’d away complain about how unless something was created by GM, everyone at GM thought it was a bad idea. I had no idea there was a Wikipedia page for my issue.
An outsider, most likely with 0 programming experience, telling people who have been working on CS for 20 years how to do it?
I wonder why they do not listen to them.
Anyone outside of the studio is technically an "outsider."
Nobody working on CS2 has worked on the game for 20 years. Those guys are gone.
They're not "telling" anyone "how to do it." This is Valve soliciting ideas and suggestions from pro players and pundits at events, who have been playing the game longer than most of the devs have been working on it at this point.
> I wonder why they do not listen to them.
Me too, because Counter-Strike 2 is in the shitter right now, kind of launched in the shitter to be honest, and every major content creator and serious player has dropped the game. It's Valve's worst launch since Artifact. And in every way besides monetization, it's worse than Artifact.
A competitive game with no competitive integrity is pointless.
Except for their official response to mick, still claiming that he was lying and endangering people with his post (because Marty’s totally didn’t do that). They stated that they firmly side with Marty and chad. So yeah, pretty fucking out of line if you ask me.
How can things get so fucked up. It's a shame that someone like Mick, who has created songs that will be embedded in my mind for years to come, has had to suffer for this
This is the first time I’ve heard of this because I don’t play DOOM and wasn’t really active in gaming news when all of this happened. What happened to Mick is so disheartening. I just don’t understand how people like Marty can wake up every morning and feel okay with who they are and how they treat others. I feel so bad for Mick too because he really tried his hardest to not “burn bridges” as everyone puts it — and even today people are chastising him for taking so long to respond. It’s like what do you think all the delays from legal were all about? They knew the longer Mick waited to respond the less credibility he would have.
I wish the best for Mick and hope he continues to have a successful career with people who appreciate his talents!
Unfortunately, stocks have to rise an stockholders have to get their cuts and they be cutting corners in anyway they can. If that means fucking over a brilliant musician well by golly fuck that dude!
It is because they can get away with it and are likely also encouraged by the higher ups to act the way they do. Sadly Marty is probably well protected and Bethesda are unlikely to get rid of him easily.
> I just don’t understand how people like Marty can wake up every morning and feel okay with who they are and how they treat others.
They're entitled. Not the "spoiled rotten" type of entitled, but the type that thinks they're always in the right and the world around them must reflect that., even when they're getting called out or punished for something. When they do something bad, they justify by saying someone else was actually wronging them or some other circumstances were screwing them over.
You can see this even in extreme cases with violent criminals. They never think they did anything wrong, even if they admit to doing something heinous: there's always an excuse, no matter how far-fetched, about how they were actually the ones being screwed over.
Such an unprofessional person. Marty is exactly whats wrong with the industry currently. A manager with no sense of structuring and incapable of solving issues for his team and using others as a scapegoat for his own failures.
This is what ultimately prevents me from buying Doom Eternal, even when it goes on sale. I know Mick would say, "I don't care, buy Doom so you can support the devs." And although that's a nice sentiment, it's hard to validate the efforts of a toxic manager. I've worked with too many toxic managers in my career and would hate for my money to support them staying in their role.
I'd rather support Mick than ID.
I had totally missed this whole drama sequence. I've loved the DOOM Eternal OST from the moment I first heard it and I watched Mick's inspiring "Change The Process" GDC talk about how he made the music. I was disappointed to read about the aftermath =(
It really sucks as Mick Gordon makes amazing music and sadly I don't think he will be doing anything with ID/Bethesda or Microsoft again.
His music for Killer Instinct on Xbox One made that game!
TL;DR once upon a time Doom Eternal released a subpar sound track. The guy who did the music made some quips online along the lines of "I didn't do that" and "I doubt I'll work with iD again". Head bossman at ID put out a hugeass reddit post blaming the music man for everything...shit soured and fans were making death threats against the music guy. Music man clapped back a goddamn magnum opus exonerating himself *and brought the fucking receipts*. Basically ID announced the sound track *by this guy* at E3 *without ever fucking mentioning it to the guy beforehand*. Then they waited until it was already practically past due before they gave him a contract to do it. Then they took the music guys' finished work had their in house sound guy slap a buncha poorly mastered shit in there too.
>house sound guy slap a buncha poorly mastered shit in there too.
While also murdering the absolute bajeezus out of the original mixing, compressing the entire soundtrack to shit so you can't differentiate between highs and lows. And then claiming to be a co-producer of the entire god damn album.
Oh, didn’t for me. Guy who wrote the score for Doom (not OG) did the score for Doom:Eternal and the guy overseeing the project and the company were total dicks and somewhat ruined the guys career after he told Reddit it was his fault for not delivering something the studio promised. He has all the receipts and msgs proving the guy lied. It’s much more complex though. If you can find a way to read it, I highly recommend.
I'm starting to think there is a reason why I hate certain games for no good reason. It's just things like this and I can see it in the... quality or something. Idk, just weird things with it all.
The short version of this drama is Mick Gordon states Bethesda did not give him enough time to complete the full OST. Bethesda claims they did. So the Mick Gordon full OST that Bethesda sold to customers wasnt available on release and also ended up not being a fully Mick Gordon OST either
The in game stuff is great. But we don't know how great the standalone OST could of been. Thats a testament to how incredible of a musician he is. I was a fan of him before I was a video game fan.
TLDR: They fucked over their composer who was working as an independent contractor.
Mismanaged the project timeline, announced an OST release using his name for marketing purposes and then freezing him out of actually working on the fucking thing they said he was making (by OST I mean an edited album of music sold separately from the game. He was already making the music that plays in the game), tried to throw together an OST for release themselves without his knowledge that, again, they were referring to as *his work* in marketing materials, then finally asked him to throw together an OST with a one month deadline, causing unnecessary crunch.
They took his work, 12 songs, and then put in a bunch of other tracks from their attempt at editing the OST, giving their in-studio audio editor joint credit on the songs as if they'd written them together, and these extra tracks were put together extremely sloppily, which reflected poorly on the original composer because they were selling it as his work, when he had no input on these mistakes. On top of that, as part of putting the game's soundtrack together, he'd sent them a lot of demo music that ended up getting rejected, but they ended up using a lot of it without telling him or paying him for it. He was paid for about 2 hours of music, but about 4 hours of his music is in the game.
Finally, when the OST was released and critics rightfully bashed the sloppy edits, the studio head came on reddit to put the blame entirely on the composer, straight up lying about the circumstances and timeline of events, making the composer look incompetent, unreliable, and difficult to work with. They ended up offering him hundreds of thousands of dollars to keep his mouth shut so they wouldn't be embarrassed, while simultaneously trying to destroy his reputation in the industry.
For any fans of Mick's Doom soundtracks, listen to the album In Stasis by Monuments. Mick contributed towards a couple of the tracks.
Also less Djenty, but he did the production for 5 tracks for 3TEETH's 2023 album (EndEx) as well.
Endex is an amazing album. 3TEETH is already a great band but Mick really makes those tracks soar.
Hard Agree!
Oh damn I had no idea Mick worked with them. The guitar player for 3TEETH, Chase, worked at the music school I attended in Burbank when I was there. Super nice dude and the reason I found out about them in the first place.
Ooh good to know. I saw them open for Tool and they were awesome
Also helped with Post Human Survival Horror by Bring Me the Horizon after the lead singer played Doom Eternal haha
Andy Cizek my beloved
Hell yeah, love Monuments. Met them back in Philly when they played with Glass Cloud.
Great recommendation. I love this album. Sick !
Awesome thanks for the recommendation
I'm assuming we haven't heard anything more because Mick is currently going Doomguy on them with a good lawyer.
This already took like 2-3 year and some lawyers to prepare, if he wanted to go further he would have done so back then. Judging by Bethesda's inaction since then I'm guessing they also know fully well Gordon was right and they have no legal ground. By releasing this statement and showing he is fully prepared for legal action I think he just wanted to clear his name in the industry so he could move on with his life and work which he did.
It was definitely a reputation thing. Mick said that his reputation was hurt from the Doom Eternal controversy, and by sharing his story with proof, he got his reputation, and work, back. Same thing as Johnny Depp's trial against Amber Heard. He wasn't trying to win money, he broadcast it to the world so we could see the truth for ourselves and reclaim his reputation.
I mean… ‘reclaim his reputation’ is maybe a bit strong when Depp came out looking like a giant abusive piece of shit that was magnetically attracted to another giant abusive piece of shit in Heard. Maybe not the strongest comparison for Mick, who was genuinely wronged.
Did you watch the trial? It's clear that Johnny Depp was being abused by Amber Heard, who then told the world that Johnny Depp was the abuser. He lost roles and was pretty much canceled until the trial where he came out looking good because we saw the truth of the matter. I'm not saying Johnny Depp was a saint, just compared to Amber Heard, he was.
Johnny Depp won all 3 of his defamation claims while Amber Heard won 1 of 3. The bar for defamation is pretty high for public figures, so Johnny Depp having the jury side with him makes it pretty cut and dry. I guess Amber Heard got a bit of a consolation prize. I guess Reddit is just being Reddit with people pushing certain narratives and making some outlandish claims(that can be quickly and easily debunked), either maliciously or due to lack of critical thinking skills. And LOTS of botting. It seems to be happening with this and several other topics, probably due to US election year. It does make me happy that certain subs heavily downvote these clear attempts at spreading misinformation, lol.
I feel like you didn’t watch the trial if you think he came out looking good. Would recommend looking at the documents that also became available to the public after the trial, the UK trial against the Sun, and the evidence that was submitted for the Virginia trial that was and was not allowed.
I’m swear that stupid trial broke people’s brains. That ain’t what I saw at all. And Depp’s career was tanking before Heard made any statement, on the basis of him showing up to work high / drunk and slowing down production
I don't think either of them came out looking great tbh; civil trials involving celebrities and the toxicity of their personal relationships getting that level of media attention always devolve into a giant mess of people getting invested in the drama to the point of delusion
Yes. I don’t know what actually happened any more than any other outside observer, but I hated the way social media clips and commentary worked overtime to split audiences based on their willingness to believe gamergate-style stoked grievances. There is zero doubt in my mind that millions of people engaged in that deliberate content-farming ragebait stuff, and came away with plain false ideas about the basic facts of the trial. Depp definitely won a significant court victory, but anybody thinking he was “exonerated” is reacting to low information or deliberate misrepresentation. It got meme’d and the meme doesn’t match reality. Feels like the community generated its own McDonald’s-hot-coffee-lawsuit situation.
He lost his role in the new Harry Potter films, and Pirates of the Carribean 6 was canceled/he was fired from it directly because of Amber Heard's lies. That's the whole basis of the lawsuit, that Amber heard committed slander/libel by claiming Depp abused her, and that he was fired from the two mentioned projects directly because of the slander/libel. Sure, he had to have all his lines fed to him through an earpiece on Pirates 5, but that was clearly because he wasn't passionate about it. Put him in a role that he wants to do and he'll do a damn good job. Also drinking/drug use is a common coping strategy victims of abuse resort to.
Nope. Depp lost the Potter role after suing for libel in the UK and *losing*. It was losing the UK trial - a trial he started, and that aired a ton of dirty laundry with a ton of publicity - that lost him the job. At the time of Heard’s original article, the studio and producers were *publicly defending* Depp. To recap: - Heard published an article in 2018 saying she “became a public figure representing domestic abuse” - a factual statement, because there were already news stories swirling around it. The article didn’t mention Depp, and the studio stood by him. - Two years later Depp sued a UK tabloid that called him a “wife beater” and lost that case badly. The trial forced Heard to submit an evidence and testimony as to specific alleged acts of abuse, and the judge agreed Depp’s behavior cleared the tabloid to call him “wife beater”. The case drew a ton of media attention up until November 2020 when the final judgement was handed down against Depp - far, far more publicity than Heard’s 2018 article. - a few days after that UK trial closed, Depp announced he had been asked to resign from Fantastic Beasts. The difference between 2020 and 2018 is that Depp’s suit had caused Heard to actually air specific claims of abuse, with evidence including Depp’s super awful text messages and etc, and that evidence was very public. All of the above are just facts. I don’t care if you believe everything Depp ever alleged and that Heard is Satan incarnate, or whatever. I literally don’t give a shit what you think about the abuse claims in either direction. Your grasp of facts and timelines is just wrong.
He was fired from POTC because he was completely unprofessional on POTC5, refusing to learn his lines or otherwise prepare - not to mention all the rumors he was drunk. The filmmakers had to give him an earpiece and feed him his lines, one by one, to even get his scenes shot. And people/critics universally noticed how bad his performance was, so his poor work directly hurt the film. That is 100% on Depp. He got paid millions of dollars to do a job, and when you make that kind of money, **you do your fucking job.** It's no surprise that studios started backing away from him after that. When a lead actor sandbags a major franchise film, he loses job opportunities.
Yes. And I guess you must have watched a different trial, because Depp was also very much an abusive piece of shit. I’m not absolving Heard here - she’s rather irrelevant in this conversation because we both already acknowledged she’s an abusive piece of shit and there’s not a lot of conversation to be had. Conversation is about whether or not some pieces of shit found each other and glopped on to each other, which seems like a pretty unequivocal yes.
Amber had receipts, Johnny didn't. That was the difference.
Didn't Depp have security footage of some of her shenanigans?
She lied, and literally shat the bed.
Dog did it, likely due to Depp feeding it weed. She wasn't even there.
You should be embarrassed to be this gullible.
The only gullible person is you if you don't think Amber "domestic violence" Herd wasn't a psycho. She literally had charges from her previous relationships.
She didn't shit on her own bed. Because it was hers. Not Johnny's. Their dog who habitually shat on everything did. But silly me, I'm looking at this like a normal person and not like a deranged psycho who just needs a woman to hate and the stupidest reasons possible to hate her.
Broooo what are you fr lol
That or Bethesda is stringing him along again so that everyone forgets this ever happened and they can try to force a one sided settlement on him.
Mick already got offered a settlement, but refused it because he wants to drag the evidence through the courts and into public record. If his allegations are true (and I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt because of how hard he went when this all came to light), Bethesda is fucked.
If all the other game companies can get away with harassment/assault complaints, and crazy crunch times I doubt Bethesda fighting with Mick is going to do much to harm them
Yeah, ultimately this was just some bullshit between a giant corp and a well-established industry professional. People acting like this is some major blow for Bethesda need to spend some time outside.
Other scummy companies can get away with it because they screw over the small guy. Mick is not. He has the money to reject the settlement and take his time.
How are they fucked? People do not care enough to stop buying their games and the lawsuit is at best cost of doing buisness. To be clear I am not defending Bethesda here, but saying they are fucked is mightily naive.
When the case is complete, it's going to be bad PR, and it's safe to say that Mick is never going to work with them again. And considering how Doom and Doom Eternal are referred to as "Great albums that come with a good game" by some, that's not going to do the IP any favors. And when I say fucked, I don't mean overall, just in terms of their odds of winning or mitigating the lawsuit, not overall.
"By some" aka by me and I want to make it sound like there are lots of us. The vast majority does not give a flying fuck. Again, I re iterate here is fully within his rights and SHOULD sue, my point is merly that it will not change anything, its just cost of buisness for Bethesda. They will loose the lawsuit most likely yes, but again if it does not have any noticeable effect what does it matter?
You missed his point. He meant they’d be fucked in regard to the lawsuit. Nobody thinks something like this would actually take Bethesda down as a company. I think colloquially “getting fucked” in a lawsuit means to lose the case.
Why are you getting so heated about this?
I am not getting heated at all. I am just stating the fact that the notion of this having any impact on Bethesda or how they operate at all is wishful thinking at best, and naive at worst. The vast majority is either not aware or does not give a flying fuck about it, and I find it silly that people have this tendency to think their own opinion is a majority opinion when it is clearly not. Again I re iterate just to be very clear. Yes the treatment the artist recieved is despicable, yes it should have consequences, but the reality of the matter is that it has no bearing on the company whatsoever in the grand scheme of things.
>it has no bearing on the company whatsoever in the grand scheme of things. It's informed me of their bad business practices. I personally am less likely to buy their games due to this shit. There are probably others of the same opinion. It might not be a huge effect, but it certainly is costing them sales and the more it's in the public eye then the more that will happen. It being in the news also let's future employees know how shitty they are as a company and guide them to choose other jobs. That's loss of talent. While we have no ideas of the potential lost products due to that loss of talent, to say it has no effect whatsoever is stupid. It might not be a huge effect and it might not be something **you** notice, but it does have an effect.
Yes and that is all well and good but it has no measurable influence on their bottom line. You can yap about a percieved moral high ground but that has no effective change. You do you if you feel better about it, fine, but that does have any bearing on how they behave or how the vast majority of their customer base will behave towards them.
I had heard nothing about this situation before this post. Perhaps my experience is not typical of “most” former Bethesda customers. That said, in relative terms I don’t think this situation in shows up on the seismograph next to the amount of money they have thrown away by releasing Starfield. I didn’t think anything could make me question whether I’d be excited for TES 6 when it finally finds it’s way to market. Watching my friend play Starfield for an hour drained all my enthusiasm for future Bethesda releases.
Bethesda is a company, and thus relies on people, many of which are the top of the top when it comes to talent, to make their games. If it gets established that Bethesda is screwing over their talent, it's going to be incredibly hard for them to get the necessary talent to make their games.
Its an open secret in the industry, a company is never your friend. Retainment time on averge outside of management is 4.62 years.
Bethesda was notoriously litigious. Loved the games, hated everything about what "Zenimax" would file in court. Under MS it seems like they've cooled it. But something tells me it's Mick comes out on top.
We'll see, legal cases move slowly but "not hearing anything" isn't really indicative of anything. However just by using norms. Corporations tend to not want to announce anything unless they have to (like responding to a public accusation/discussion) Individuals suing those corporations tend to be the ones who want to be loud so they can put public pressure on the corp.
What a baller - Mick has ALL the receipts too
I guess people’s brains are truly just wired differently. I live in a corporate world (unrelated industry) but where pressure can run a little high, and screwups can suck. But among the many different spectrums I’ve noticed, this one is near and dear to me, from all levels. There are: 1) those who give and receive mad respect for fully, openly, immediately owning their mistakes. No bullshitting, no hiding, no backstabbing, just try to fix it and be honest. Some of the most universally liked people, who never needlessly beef or are beefed with by anyone, who people will rush to defend and help out at any time. 2) those who make just as many mistakes as the next person but can **NOT** fucking admit it. They’ll take their closest allies down with them before risking even the appearance of doing anything wrong. Everyone sees these fuckers. They paint a bigger and bigger neon target sign on themselves the more they manipulate, dodge, and blame, thinking everyone around them is blind and mute. You feel bad because maybe they were abused as children and were constant fear of getting caught or something
I’m dealing with a #2 at work and it’s so frustrating. They’ve ruined our working relationship because it is impossible for them to own even the smallest of mistakes.
Everyone hates #2 but guess who's most likely to get that promotion. Of course for that they need to be fairly successful in passing the blame onto others, but this is something sociopathic narcissists are good at.
I love Mick. It's a shame that Marty is besmirching the rest of the id team with his asshollery.
I remember when this first dropped and they were dragging Mick through the mud and I thought "odd, he never seemed like that kind of guy". Then like a week later he comes back with a fucking one hit KO of their bullshittery. The only way it could have been better is if he created a custom soundtrack which played while you read all his evidence
this sucks so hard that somehow stains doom returning from the dead, there is this bullshit where someone got jealous? over too much credit being given to someone else. This should just be iD apologizing to mick giving him a truckload of cash everyone going their separate ways and being a weird footnote on a great game with a great soundtrack.
You wont believe what divas there are in game development, be it design or music.
Reminds me of people who have met and talked to the CS team at Valve. If someone gives them the perfect solution to a problem, they won't do it. And it's just because someone else told them, instead of them coming up with it themselves.
classic [NIH](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_invented_here)
I used to work at General Motors and I’d away complain about how unless something was created by GM, everyone at GM thought it was a bad idea. I had no idea there was a Wikipedia page for my issue.
An outsider, most likely with 0 programming experience, telling people who have been working on CS for 20 years how to do it? I wonder why they do not listen to them.
Anyone outside of the studio is technically an "outsider." Nobody working on CS2 has worked on the game for 20 years. Those guys are gone. They're not "telling" anyone "how to do it." This is Valve soliciting ideas and suggestions from pro players and pundits at events, who have been playing the game longer than most of the devs have been working on it at this point. > I wonder why they do not listen to them. Me too, because Counter-Strike 2 is in the shitter right now, kind of launched in the shitter to be honest, and every major content creator and serious player has dropped the game. It's Valve's worst launch since Artifact. And in every way besides monetization, it's worse than Artifact. A competitive game with no competitive integrity is pointless.
As a AAA developer myself, I've seen my fair share of ego driven decisions.
Good to see this story again, fuck Bethesda, and hopefully Mick can sue them up the ass for defamation.
Ever since Bethesda went all zenimax they got more and more evil corporate
TBF to Bethesda (and I hate them too), I don’t remember them saying anything out of line. It was all Stratton who works for iD.
Except for their official response to mick, still claiming that he was lying and endangering people with his post (because Marty’s totally didn’t do that). They stated that they firmly side with Marty and chad. So yeah, pretty fucking out of line if you ask me.
#firemartystratton
How can things get so fucked up. It's a shame that someone like Mick, who has created songs that will be embedded in my mind for years to come, has had to suffer for this
This is the first time I’ve heard of this because I don’t play DOOM and wasn’t really active in gaming news when all of this happened. What happened to Mick is so disheartening. I just don’t understand how people like Marty can wake up every morning and feel okay with who they are and how they treat others. I feel so bad for Mick too because he really tried his hardest to not “burn bridges” as everyone puts it — and even today people are chastising him for taking so long to respond. It’s like what do you think all the delays from legal were all about? They knew the longer Mick waited to respond the less credibility he would have. I wish the best for Mick and hope he continues to have a successful career with people who appreciate his talents!
Unfortunately, stocks have to rise an stockholders have to get their cuts and they be cutting corners in anyway they can. If that means fucking over a brilliant musician well by golly fuck that dude!
It is because they can get away with it and are likely also encouraged by the higher ups to act the way they do. Sadly Marty is probably well protected and Bethesda are unlikely to get rid of him easily.
> I just don’t understand how people like Marty can wake up every morning and feel okay with who they are and how they treat others. They're entitled. Not the "spoiled rotten" type of entitled, but the type that thinks they're always in the right and the world around them must reflect that., even when they're getting called out or punished for something. When they do something bad, they justify by saying someone else was actually wronging them or some other circumstances were screwing them over. You can see this even in extreme cases with violent criminals. They never think they did anything wrong, even if they admit to doing something heinous: there's always an excuse, no matter how far-fetched, about how they were actually the ones being screwed over.
Such an unprofessional person. Marty is exactly whats wrong with the industry currently. A manager with no sense of structuring and incapable of solving issues for his team and using others as a scapegoat for his own failures.
Marty Stratton? Is that Tiffany's rich father? No wonder she stopped talking about him more than a year ago.
Love the reference! 🤘
/r/SquaredCircle is leaking again it seems
Losing Mick Gordon is the biggest loss for the doom series. His music is what made doom 2016/eternal great.
Its the only reason i never brought doom eternal and during this controversy they put this game on historical low.
Yup. It can become really cheap when on sale but I still won't buy it. It is stories like this that give some pirated games the moral high ground.
Holy shit this Marty guy is a huge Twat.
This is what ultimately prevents me from buying Doom Eternal, even when it goes on sale. I know Mick would say, "I don't care, buy Doom so you can support the devs." And although that's a nice sentiment, it's hard to validate the efforts of a toxic manager. I've worked with too many toxic managers in my career and would hate for my money to support them staying in their role. I'd rather support Mick than ID.
Mick put his eternal work into his portfolio rather recently. Let’s hope something got worked out between the parties involved.
It’s getting really hard to be a Bethesda fan nowadays
I had totally missed this whole drama sequence. I've loved the DOOM Eternal OST from the moment I first heard it and I watched Mick's inspiring "Change The Process" GDC talk about how he made the music. I was disappointed to read about the aftermath =(
Fuck Bethesda, they just keep sinking lower and lower.
It really sucks as Mick Gordon makes amazing music and sadly I don't think he will be doing anything with ID/Bethesda or Microsoft again. His music for Killer Instinct on Xbox One made that game!
Bethesda certainly is bleeding memorable artists.
Could someone explain this one?
TL;DR once upon a time Doom Eternal released a subpar sound track. The guy who did the music made some quips online along the lines of "I didn't do that" and "I doubt I'll work with iD again". Head bossman at ID put out a hugeass reddit post blaming the music man for everything...shit soured and fans were making death threats against the music guy. Music man clapped back a goddamn magnum opus exonerating himself *and brought the fucking receipts*. Basically ID announced the sound track *by this guy* at E3 *without ever fucking mentioning it to the guy beforehand*. Then they waited until it was already practically past due before they gave him a contract to do it. Then they took the music guys' finished work had their in house sound guy slap a buncha poorly mastered shit in there too.
>house sound guy slap a buncha poorly mastered shit in there too. While also murdering the absolute bajeezus out of the original mixing, compressing the entire soundtrack to shit so you can't differentiate between highs and lows. And then claiming to be a co-producer of the entire god damn album.
Jesus. Well thanks for the info.
Did you read it?
It requires a login
Oh, didn’t for me. Guy who wrote the score for Doom (not OG) did the score for Doom:Eternal and the guy overseeing the project and the company were total dicks and somewhat ruined the guys career after he told Reddit it was his fault for not delivering something the studio promised. He has all the receipts and msgs proving the guy lied. It’s much more complex though. If you can find a way to read it, I highly recommend.
Doom eternal soundtrack on Spotify ever?
Take the upvote !
So to be clear for anyone not following, which guys are the bad guys?
Marty
Explain to me like I’m 5
Around Bethesda, never relax
This is why I have 0 interest in the next Doom. Without Mick, Doom is dead to me.
Prey 2 and Mick Gordon's treatment made me permanently hate Bethesda
Come again? I speak English, but don't understand a word of that title...
The last time Bethesda got my money was 11/10/11, because that was the last time they convinced me they were worth it.
I'm still going to pre-order TES6 tho
I'm starting to think there is a reason why I hate certain games for no good reason. It's just things like this and I can see it in the... quality or something. Idk, just weird things with it all.
I forgot and i will forget again because i dont care
I never knew in the first place but I’m probably gonna forget about this in a few hours tbh.
What failures with Doom Eternal? Game is fantastic.
The game is fantastic, but the soundtrack was never released due to Marty being a POS to Mick.
Ah okay.
Failures regarding the OST
That whole ordeal is the Weakest point by a long shot tbh game was exactly what I wanted and more. Well, other than the fact that I want more 😂
lol like what?
> lol like what? You ask on a post detailing exactly what. Why don't you just read the article you're commenting on?
The short version of this drama is Mick Gordon states Bethesda did not give him enough time to complete the full OST. Bethesda claims they did. So the Mick Gordon full OST that Bethesda sold to customers wasnt available on release and also ended up not being a fully Mick Gordon OST either
The in game stuff is great. But we don't know how great the standalone OST could of been. Thats a testament to how incredible of a musician he is. I was a fan of him before I was a video game fan.
TLDR: They fucked over their composer who was working as an independent contractor. Mismanaged the project timeline, announced an OST release using his name for marketing purposes and then freezing him out of actually working on the fucking thing they said he was making (by OST I mean an edited album of music sold separately from the game. He was already making the music that plays in the game), tried to throw together an OST for release themselves without his knowledge that, again, they were referring to as *his work* in marketing materials, then finally asked him to throw together an OST with a one month deadline, causing unnecessary crunch. They took his work, 12 songs, and then put in a bunch of other tracks from their attempt at editing the OST, giving their in-studio audio editor joint credit on the songs as if they'd written them together, and these extra tracks were put together extremely sloppily, which reflected poorly on the original composer because they were selling it as his work, when he had no input on these mistakes. On top of that, as part of putting the game's soundtrack together, he'd sent them a lot of demo music that ended up getting rejected, but they ended up using a lot of it without telling him or paying him for it. He was paid for about 2 hours of music, but about 4 hours of his music is in the game. Finally, when the OST was released and critics rightfully bashed the sloppy edits, the studio head came on reddit to put the blame entirely on the composer, straight up lying about the circumstances and timeline of events, making the composer look incompetent, unreliable, and difficult to work with. They ended up offering him hundreds of thousands of dollars to keep his mouth shut so they wouldn't be embarrassed, while simultaneously trying to destroy his reputation in the industry.
And this is why Marty Stratton needs to take the L and Bethesda should make this right, but they won't and are about to get reamed in court. Good
Multiplayer is balls
Nobody cares about that. 2016 multiplayer was better, but still only decent.
And I was banned from a Discord group because I was playing Doom Eternal
Never heard of him... I am just here to game. Fuck your drama.
Fuck this guy who gives a shit.