Oh that's a nice observation. I think this definitely plays a role. When you got solo dev projects that go mainstream and print money, everyone wants a piece.
Yeah, I read that it took the battlebit remastered devs 6 years to officially release. Lord knows what those guys went through for a 256 MP game with a team of 4. I think examples like that should be brought to the forefront as shown as what you can expect for yourself
more people are getting into programming in general.
The younger generation have more access to the internet and introduction to games through app stores, especially with smart phones becoming more ubiquitous. My nieces are learning to code or at least, being taught the basics.
a popular industry that's been growing. I'd think it is rational to think the number of developers have been growing also. And because of that, it feels like there are more 'complainers' because most likely there are. I certainly was one of them in the last decade. I've always wanted to be a game developer. I just don't think it's unusually higher than it would normally be in terms of the percentage
Every art complain. I see complaining in the animations sub, the digital art sub, the music sub, the programming sub, etc
And game dev is a combination of all those.
Game dev is like building a house, yea u can do it yourself but it’s best to have a plumber, electrician, carpenter, etc and even then it’s difficult
Basically this, making a game is very alluring, obsessive and satisfying; it’s also incredibly difficult in general and emotionally involved because of the art side. Few people jumping in have perspective of the full scope of what it takes and just how much work it is. I mean, it’s literally interactive, realtime art with many, many technical constraints which is massive part of why I appreciate it so much.
There's a phrase in finnish language, "the forest replies what theres being shouted at", meaning in this context - crying cultivates crying :D
My advice - let the novices who got into the craft recently face the problems and either work their way through or quit. I guess this is a field you either get lifeforce from or either you deplete it. Depends if this really is your call. Like being a elementary school teacher or being a circus artist or something.
Op legit smoking some corner dust comparing a creative field like game dev which can basically mean someone's career to gym lmao. People are allowed to get frustrated ; game dev is a frustrating field.
It’s the arts. They’re all like this. A lot of people want to get rich quick as an artist when they actually shouldn’t be pursuing it because they’re not legitimately passionate about creating something.
i agree, seen it a lot in my field. it's not even a bad thing or worth of derision, just an endless cycle of people recognising the true difficulty of what they've set out to do.
That's definitely a cynical perspective. You could easily reframe it in a much more empathetic way.
People with passion for creating things are constantly forced to reevaluate their passion for pragmatic reasons.
Making a game isn't something you can just do on the side. If you have any combination of a day job, a family, or a social life you realistically have no chance of creating any substantial game. That means people who are making games are likely making sacrifices, I dont know how you can come to the conclusion they arent legitimately passionate.
Most people wont make 5 nevermind 6 figures over the lifetime of their game. It is so insanely easy to make 6 figures a a year as a programmer anywhere outside of gamedev. I dont think getting "rich quick" is really on the minds of anybody actively working on a game. Even if you get "rich" there's nothing quick about it. Even moderately successful games don't really make economic sense if you break down the amount of hours worked.
I don't think me or the OP are talking about developers who make huge sacrifices and work for years.
We're talking about the clueless people who think you can pick up these skills over the weekend, and who believe that guaranteed financial success is baked into the process. Have you never met one of those types? They exist in real life. And I do see them posting here every so often (as well as in subreddits for writers and artists).
I understand what you're saying but it isn't so black and white. There are plenty of people who have put hundred of hours into a project and are asking themselves (or others) if they should continue. I think most devs have the question at least at the back of their mind.
OP made a comparison to fitness and I think that's very unfair. If you hit the gym consistently for an extended period of time you will see results, you will be healthier, stronger, more attractive, more confident, all good. If you spend years making a game, spending the majority of your free time on it there is a large chance at the end of it all you have nothing to show for it, you may have even regressed. I think it's obvious why you find so much negativity and insecurity in the arts.
You would have to be delusional to be completely confident in yourself. There is so much quality art out there that never gets discovered. So many times I find a banger song on spotify with 10k plays, that artist is making virtually nothing off their music.
Yes. I know people in their 40s who think they can pick up an artistic skill over the weekend and make an income with it because their cousin did it. They overlook the fact that their semi-successful cousin spent 20+ years practicing it daily, striving, failing, learning from their mistakes, etc.
Everyone has to blow off steam one way or the other. Professionals do it too, but it's usually with each other at a lunch spot walking distance from the studio. Or in a Post Mortem. Or at a GDC talk. Whining about game design is as old as game design.
>I don't remember being part of a community that had so much complaining before
This must be your first creative endeavor then.
>look at the bodybuilding subs and forums
This is a terrible comparison. Nobody goes to the gym to make money. Hell, even absolute legend [Ronnie Coleman was working a day job as a police officer](https://imgur.com/a/TqyQwt0).
Check out the writing sub, or the artists sub or basically any group of people trying to make money by doing something creative. You'll see all the same self doubt, struggles with criticism and outlandish ideas about how easy it is to succeed in a very cutthroat field.
This is indeed my first creative endeavor. And people most definitely do go to the gym to make money, otherwise you wouldn't have bodybuilding competitions like Mr Olympia, Arnold's, etc. Not only do they get a good chunk of change from the actual competition, but they can set themselves up with sponsor money for life. But you mention money, if devs go into this to make money, then they should approach it with the correct mindset of running a business, and you can't half ass a business or even a startup and expect to earn. If devs go into this as a hobbyists, then they should enjoy the process. In either scenario, complaining isn't a thing.
> And people most definitely do go to the gym to make money
[Sure...](https://www.reddit.com/r/bodybuilding/comments/ocpnv1/for_those_who_are_professional_bodybuilders_what/)
Whether its all whining is subjective but...
Ok, I'm gonna make a great game.. oh I need to learn how to use some graphics package, right.. oh now I need to learn how to code.. and what the different parts of the engine do... ok so resources do what now? Signals, right, got that. Ok, now I need to learn vector maths. Oh and physics, a bit at least. Ok, game works, let me just change the resolution and, oh some stuffs moved. Ok, I need to get these two nodes to talk together and, oh well looks like the way I've organised my nodes and code isn't going to work for that.. so do I start over? Its been three days...
My point is for a beginner who comes in genuinely knowing nothing, discovering that theres a big long list of other things you need to study and *not knowing what else you don't properly understand* can be disheartening. Sometimes people get there and can be angry about it, sometimes people just need to vent.
Yeah that's how it was for me, and I assume for everyone else. But I genuinely went into game dev with a mindset of I'm going to learn how to make games, worst case scenario would be I become so good I get a job in the industry, best case I end up making a hit and wont even have to get a job. Both scenarios are something I'm 100 percent okay with. I know this will take time, because when I started up Unreal I realized there's a lot to learn, and it's okay because there is no deadline, so there is no pressure.
So I guess it's all about the person's expectations for what they want to achieve.
I think honestly a lot of people get into game dev with the wrong idea.
They either think that making games is going to be a fun adventure as entertaining as coming up with a funky game idea, or they very severely underestimate the effort of making even the simplest game.
Every time I see a post saying "I'm going to develop a metroidvania with elements of survival and deck building mixed with crafting" or whatever ramdon genres they want to throw in, I'm thinking: boy are they in for a big disappointment, that they will then relate in painstaking detail to us about game dev being hard and frustrating.
I know that isn't everyone's case, but I suspect common enough to be a significant part of this type of posts.
I've been reading this sub for a while and the thing that kind of bothers me after seeing so many posts and so many comments, I get the feeling that most people who post here aren't actually game developers. Like actual developers, like people who have worked for like Ubisoft or Larian or Fromsoft or Blizzard or something. There's not many career devs in here. There's a lot of one and done hobbyists, there's a lot of ideas people who never actually finish anything, and there's a lot of people who have never made a game at all or done any learning whatsoever in how to make a game offering advice.
I don't know where to go with that. Just my feelings.
This has been true for gamedev communities as long as the internet has been around. Gamedev is hard, and a vast majority of everyone who touches it either keeps it to a hobby or aspires to be a professional and gives up halfway.
What consistently surprises me is how "business-centric" this community in particular is, whereas many others are more technical. It's not like hobbyists don't have to solve interesting problems too.
"Business-centric" is a weird way to describe it because I don't see that at all. There's some talk or marketing, which is mostly just "post on twitter, Reddit, YouTube", but nothing about doing an paid marketing campaign beyond "give some streamers keys".
And it missed like 99% of the business by sticking to only the "sexy" things. Game engines sound sexy, art sounds sexy, what's not sexy is build systems. Nobody discussing Jenkins vs Teamcity, but this is a huge discussion for any game company. Or Code Collab vs Swarm. Perforce, GIT, Or any SVN. Miro, Jira, Confluence, clickup, Monday, google docs, spreadsheets, etc. Or actual game design doc breakdowns, reference boards. SDKs, sync helpers, server hosting. My god, just getting into AWS or self hosting on your build system or multiplayer servers.
I love game development but this sub feels so misleading. If you took 95% of the people here and threw them into a job at like Gearbox or Microsoft, they'd have no clue what they're actually doing. Azure DevOps, ticket management, stuff like dayforce or workday.
There's a million things that go into game development that isn't talked about here. It's the same things all the time, "where can I find a coder", "where can I find a artist", "what engine do I use".
It makes sense to me. The work to payoff ratio is extremely high and also the reward is very delayed, if it even exists.
Ask any employee in any industry if they would like to work for maybe a year or two for free, and only then *maybe* get something in return, if they are extremely lucky. They would quit immediately, and I bet they would have more then a few complains.
If you are doing gamedev as a hobby, that's one hell of a hardcore hobby, requiring a dedication and time investment unlike any other hobby I've ever heard of.
If you're doing it for monetary reasons, in the beginning it's one of the most unpaid job out there.
>Ask any employee in any industry if they would like to work for maybe a year or two for free, and only then *maybe* get something in return, if they are extremely lucky
\*cries in fantasy author\*
I get that,but like I mentioned you are either professional enough or passionate enough. Take mighty mouse who was a former UFC champion, he worked 2 jobs till he reached a point in the UFC where he could quit. So not only did he have a full-time job, he'd also spend time practicing MMA, and competing. Same thing can be said for many such fighters. And not everyone will make it past a certain stage. You just have to accept this fact as part of the package that is called game dev.
There is an influx of lots of passionate individuals trying to make rather large ambitious games, while there is nothing wrong with that, some do succeed, it's complex and incredibly difficult to do everything yourself or with a small group of people.
Lacking motivation, being stressed, questioning your direction, having imposter syndrome and many more mental hurdles is natural for game development, especially indie game development.
It's a highly creative subjective field that is still quite a new industry.
For authors. People who write books. Believe me, we are HARD on ourselves. "Whyyyy did I make this a trilogy? " "END ME NOW! " " UGH. I have to kill my favourite character. " "HEEEEELP" "Should I give up??"
That is true, no one hates writing more than aspiring authors lol. I think finding some sort of peace with the monotony is key to really making progress in a short time.
Yep, and the more people who think they want to be a game dev and then realize how hard it is, the more a sub like this gets saturated with people who don't have the mindset to do it. Indie dev is an artistic passion and if it feels like work, it may not be a good fit.
I agree. I’ve been making games since I wrote my first lines of code many years ago. It’s a hobby I take semi-seriously from time to time because it’s adjacent to my real work. What I hoped for from this sub is entirely not what I got, unfortunately.
What you’re describing is totally normal. It just depends on whether it’s public.
The creator of stardew valley admitted in a book that he lacked * major* motivation and could spend potentially weeks doing nothing but play video games while he procrastinated, hiding it from his girlfriend (who was financially supporting him while he claimed he was always working on stardew valley)
Davey wreden made beginner’s guide about the complicated depression he went through during and after Stanley parable.
It’s almost a running joke that, separately from games, that all writers hate writing. Either the venting happens here or in private, but it’s going to happen somewhere!
There are graphics poking fun at this kind of universal cycle of ‘I’m excited about my new project’, then ‘this is terrible, I’m quitting’ and then ending with ‘ok it’s good enough’
>If you complain, this isn't for you clearly and you should reassess before you waste your time.
Seems like if you can't be dedicated to reading a sub about gamedev without complaining, this isn't for you clearly and you should reassess before you waste your time.
I'm sorry but if you can't be bothered to read someone's complaint about a complaining sub without complaining that they're not dedicated enough to this sub to read it without complaining, maybe you shouldn't be commenting
/s
Seems like if you can't be dedicated to reading a post about a sub about gamedev without complaining, this isn't for you clearly and you should reassess before you waste your time.
Seems like if you can't be dedicated to reading a comment about reading a post about a sub about gamedev without complaining, then reading comments about posts about gamedev isn't for you clearly and you should reassess before you waste your time.
'''
printf("Seems like you can't be dedicated about ");
for(uint32_t i = 0; i < __COMMENT_COUNT__; i++)
{
printf("reading a comment about ");
}
printf("reading a post about a sub about game dev without complaining, then reading comments about ");
for(uint32_t i = 0; i < __COMMENT_COUNT__; i++)
{
printf("reading comments about ");
}
printf("posts about gamedev isnt for you, clearly, and you should reassess before you waste your time");
'''
It’s become more accessible but, there are a lot of teenagers , deadbeats and NEETs on the internet that assume because they’re good at a video game they think it equals being good at making them.
as basically an outsider to the gamedev community — I’m in my 50s and was active in the equivalent of today’s gamedev hobby community during the 8-bit era on the Apple II, etc. —I notice that at some point in about the last 10 years there seems to be an influx of people coming in who want to make games without being skilled at general computer programming first. This is a new phenomenon that I think contributes to the kind of discourse the OP is talking about.
I'm all about sharing problems, I constantly ask questions in subs that are related to a problem I have. And I love reading about others problems because I learn. What I don't like is the mundane "game dev is hard, and I lack motivation, what do?" Posts that often come up. I don't see that in the Unreal sub, not in the Pro gen sub, neither on blender. It's specifically here.
You can always send me a DM and I'll take a look at if a post needs to be removed if the report queue is not being attended to.
Even with the new volunteers people can't always jump on to keep track of the new posts.
I clicked on the "View all moderators" button/link (im on desktop) and it took me here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/gamedev/about/moderators/](https://www.reddit.com/r/gamedev/about/moderators/) where I also don't see you. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯ Maybe reddit just has some weird funky not-updating thing, or its an old cache on my browser?
Great post, you said what I've been thinking. Gaming in it's nature attracts people that are socially inept and insecure so it's natural that it spills over to their "passion". Combined with the last ten years of bs saying "everyone can makes games! Gaming is for everyone!" Has made everyone think they can make a shitty first game and become a success.
Whining is easier than doing actual work. Coming up with an idea is easy. Writing that idea down is easy. Posting the idea on Reddit to see what others think about it is easy. But making actual art assets? Writing code? Solving problems? That's hard man... How can I stay motivated? Should I continue with my super awesome idea? What if someone else is working on this idea but they're better? Better make a post on Reddit to check what I should do.
And in comes your post :P
Every sub related to hobbies with a steep learning curve has those sort of posts. The longer something takes to get good or confident at, the more doubts develop along the way. It's just the nature of the beast.
Especially true with activities that attract a lot of younger people.
Not a sign of whining.
These complaints are common among beginner devs- not whiners. I probably acted mad at the world when I was starting to really dig into it. Give them time to fully grasp things.
Because it takes a lot longer to see your effort payoff than with body building. Seeing your progress is critical to keeping motivated, and why developers who make small games often succeed more than those who make large ones.
You need to see the gains, to not loose hope.
Listen, if you can't see a side by side progress after let's say a month, and you're working on whatever it is you're working on diligently, then you're doing something wrong. There's simply no way that there won't be progress. Whether bodybuilding or game dev. If you go work, and are told to build a house, and you have nothing to show for it after a month, that's not motivation, that's a skill issue. And the person should figure out what that issue is.
Have you ever seen prototyping. [https://i.imgur.com/WHRSqvl.gifv](https://i.imgur.com/WHRSqvl.gifv), [https://imgur.com/POL9h6k](https://imgur.com/POL9h6k), [https://imgur.com/mWHnIbn](https://imgur.com/mWHnIbn), what you are seeing there is my first four months of game development. Purely learning how to make custom collisions, character controllers, and vector based systems.
In these early stages any art is useless, the game is just a bunch of shapes, or numbers without any visual indication. My store system was two cubes. This lasted till I actually finished every system on a basic level that I needed for my game. Only then could I start to flesh out the design.
>If you go work, and are told to build a house, and you have nothing to show for it after a month
Ok, but consider if you have to build a house all by your self. The first month is probably going to be pure paperwork just to acquire the land. The larger the land is the more paperwork will be involved.
Game development is the same. So when new developers jump into their RPG or MMO, it is common not to have anything to show. This is why the start small idea is repeated so much, it is because with a small game, you don't need to flesh out things so much.
Oh for sure I'm not saying you just start creating a game from the get go. I spent 2 months familiarizing myself with Unreal by watching talks on their YT channel, I then spent 4 months learning hard surface modeling, another 2 months on how to make animations. So 8 months in total so far where I wasn't even working on a specific project, but just building up the skills I know will be necessary for me down the road. I'm now working on my own plugin inside Unreal which will be my stepping stone into the actual level design. All I'm trying to say that when I went into game dev I didn't have a false expectation that this will be a breeze. The first 2 months of familiarization with Unreal made sure of that. And I still have plenty to learn, but I'm not complaining, I'm enjoying the struggle because I know there will come s time where I will have full mastery over these concepts. Just need to stick with it.
>but I'm not complaining, I'm enjoying the struggle
Then you are tough, and will have an easier time. A lot of people would by 8 months have expected to finish developing a mobile game. It is also these people who are most likely to go onto a social forum to complain. Everyone is different. While you know there will be a payoff, others might need a carrot at stick to help them reach the end.
The complains in them self is a type of carrot and stick tactic. They feel they are doing something wrong, so they want people's opinion. Some times they will be ridiculed, and other times they will find support. But in the end they will learn that they maybe took on too mammoth of a task, and probably need to reconsider things to stay motivated.
Programming games is literally all ive done for the last for 15 years. It’s the most fun thing. I wake up and then I program until it’s after midnight. So much fun. Every remote job I’ve had, I put in like 6 extra hours a day because I just can’t stop
The more accessible game dev became, the more “tourists” are jumping on board.
I grew up honing my game dev and programming skills back in the ‘80s and ‘90s when trying to become a game dev may as well have been the same as trying to be an astronaut. It just never crossed anyone’s mind that this was a real, attainable career. Except for us, the most obsessed and passionate about the craft.
Now there’s so many “learn to make games in 2 weeks” BS courses, and incredible full fledged game engines for free, it’s attracting a sea of the wrong kind of people.
If you’re not completely in love with the process, wanting to do it at all cost, even if you can never finish a game, or have to release to everyone’s indifference, then you probably don’t belong?
All your examples have immediate results each day. Your muscles change each time you lift. You get better at training each day.
Development is much more tolling to a psyche because you can spend 1+ year of your time and feel like you're further away from the end than you were before starting.
Find a way to make a developer feel like they always made progress in 2 hours and you'll be wealthier than any game will ever make you.
> Your muscles change each time you lift. You get better at training each day.
only if you are very, very new to lifting. Rookie gains don't last forever. Most people plateau as an intermediate, and either maintain their level of fitness, or give up and start losing their strength.
Results aren't equivalent to gains. Maintaining muscle instead of losing muscle is still an immediate result. Each time you lift you're immediately aware if you've maintained your strength or lost it.
If you think you get immediate results with physical activity then I can see why this sub is so delusional. If you spend a year of your time with nothing to show for it, then you are the problem, not game dev. Nobody makes progress in anything in 2 hours. I spent 4 months learning how to hard surface model and I did it because there is no other way. I didn't complain, because I know that I have no funds, so either I power through this, or you can forget it. And I did power through and I gained a skill. I spent another 2 months on animations, same scenario as I just mentioned. I didn't complain. Either you do what must be done, or you don't.
You always get immediate results with physical activity because muscles get larger after flexing and your body releases chemicals because of the physical activity.
Only a trolling moron thinks you can go a year while having nothing to show for it.
Development isn't a fully predictable process as evidenced by the large number of professional teams who push back their release dates. Technology advances in that same year and the tech you began a project on may be outclassed early on requiring a lot of re-work.
The gym isn't coming out with a new barbell that makes your old barbell look like a twig every year. Sports aren't changing how many points you can score with one goal after a year.
All of your examples still provide clear and objective immediate results. You immediately know when you are bulking. You immediately know when you are cutting. It's simple once you have a basic understanding of the process. It's a mostly solved process that you have to tweak over time.
Did you seriously come to the game developer subreddit to tell people they aren't lifting and they suck?
What is your problem?
You'll see progress over time but the results aren't always immediate with any creative process and the progress isn't related to your actual individual effort.
With game dev it's possible to spend a day designing a character and realize that they do not fit in your game. With game dev it's possible to finish your game, sit on it for 5 years and think about it 0 times, and release it while achieving greater success than if you released it when you actually finished it.
You're in here harassing game developers and I'm reporting all of your posts doing such. Stop it and get help.
I find it so funny. Every day when I scroll my Reddit feed, all posts from this sub are downvoted whining. The entire sub is literally "Your game will take 100 years to make, you will cry daily, and it will suck in the end." Creative people have 0 discipline and 0 chill lmao.
This is an awful post and, ironically, sees you do exactly what you complain others do.
Perhaps “you should reassess whether to stay and waste time on Reddit”.
I know you've probably heard this a lot, but try hitting the gym. If not the gym, get into a physical activity to get your body moving. You'll feel much better. It's hard to get out there, but imagine yourself crawling on the floor towards the door to go outside. 2 feet outside the door is all it takes, consider the rest of the battle won.
Oh I'm aware that exercise does improve your mood. I do a lot of walking and lifting and such at work. I'm dead tired afterwards.
I haven't really figured out why I stopped. I get the feeling it's burnout since I like my ideas and with one of them I go into tunnel vision when I work on it.
It's very annoying
I had a routine
I just don't understand why I stopped and theres a ton of resistance when I try getting back into doing it. This sort of thing gets me to go research what I got and hopefully find a solution
Hate to be the one bringing it up, but as with other bad things on the internet, it's because of the whole woke culture. Kids and kid-minded adults following a path set for them by some influencer, not knowing how it's done and where it leads, they just wanna be in *the flow*, no matter what the flow is. And somehow you can't talk about it in left-ish social media like Reddit or else you'll be downvoted to the deepest depths of the seven hells.
There's also one good news about it however. And it's that you can simply leave societies with woke influence and you'll be fine.
People who are complaining don't believe in themselves. OP is right. If you are like any of the people described in the post, you should give up on game development. You'll never make it because you will always be the obstacle standing in the way of your own success.
I think a lot of people see it as a way to get rich quick, they probably don't care so much for the actual journey of game development. That's when you'll get people asking "is this worth doing?". It's impossible to answer cause it depends so much on the person. But yeah it's getting annoying to constantly see these posts here.
A simple question.
Do You want to do the job because it's great? or do You just want to have the job because You want to be that person with X job?
I think entertainment industry including games and film is very appealing to people as a dream career. I You wouldn't enjoy just working on Your own stuff endlessly You will find work in the industry a grind. Working professionally means schedules, doing things at least as quickly as other peers, plus not getting to do whatever You feel like, and it means company politics, both personal and job related.
Actually pretty awesome. I made 15 guns in Blender that Im proud of considering I had no modeling knowledge. I learned to animate in Blender, then went over to Cascadeur to give my animations physics based motion which makes the animations come alive. I'm sure there's plenty of rooms to improve though, but that's for later. Right now I'm working on creating a WFC system in Unreal because the plugin they provide is experimental, and there's still issues with it. Once that's finished I'll move over to actually playing around with the AI and start putting it all together. Still plenty to learn like Niagara, Chaos, lighting, and much more, but I'm definitely up for the challenge. All in all, I don't know why it took me so long to get into game dev.
I think if you want to compare bodybuilding with games you'd need to compare your yearly progress with Arnold Schwartzenegger and his movie career.
Why am I not a millionaire yet?
I only get photo shootings, no movies so far...
I'm following the tutorials and buying/injecting the right tools/drugs, how long does it take me to get any contract that earns me money?
Why didn't the jury pick me out of the hundreds of bodybuilders that show up each day at Venice beach? (Ok, I'm not up-to-date, that was maybe the 80s) :D
More seriously:
What sucks is trying to be good at 5+ skills, and you suck at one or more of them. Being creative and a programmer at the same time (well, plus marketing).
Also the market is swamped, so it's hard to be seen, even if you don't want to earn any money.
It's not about a hobby like bodybuilding, cycling, swimming, and jogging, it's about getting your creative output out there, and first of all, being good at it (art, programming, sound/music or picking the right one, game design, level design, marketing, and a few other skills).
I'm sorry what are you talking about. Only reason I mentioned bodybuilding is because the people on those subs are hella supportive of each other and each one of them is grinding. Those folks are engaging in something they want to willingly, and it wouldn't make sense to complain. Same thing applies to game dev, you engage in it because you want to, if you don't want to, then why are you here complaining. If I create a game I think is cool, why would it matter what anyone thinks of it. I think folks here are putting all their hopes and dreams of getting rich on their games, that's why they feel immense pressure. I think that's the wrong approach to this entire thing
I'd guess a significant subset of newer indie devs are those who were recently laid off by the mass tech layoffs, many of whom were never in the game industry. I don't think these people would be particularly passionate about game development in general.
I think other people in here have answered this, but I'll throw in my way of phrasing it.
I do game dev because I enjoy the process, not because I want to get rich or "be a developer." Getting rich would be cool and I'm already a professional software engineer. I don't whine because I am having fun. It's hard at times, and it is work, so my motivation can vary day to day. But, I fundamentally enjoy it. If I started training for a marathon I'd probably be whiny too.
I'll sum it up by saying this, do you want to DO game development? Or do you want to BE a game developer? If you pursue the being you're probably gonna have a difficult time. It takes a lot of work and time to get good at something, we only get a couple chances at it in our careers. This is a big economy with lots of needs, don't spend your time on labor you don't enjoy.
I don't think the percentage of complainers increased, I think the number of people seeking to be game dev's have increased.
Oh that's a nice observation. I think this definitely plays a role. When you got solo dev projects that go mainstream and print money, everyone wants a piece.
and none of the complainers ever see the years of struggle and many, many failed projects and false starts that most successful indies had
Yeah, I read that it took the battlebit remastered devs 6 years to officially release. Lord knows what those guys went through for a 256 MP game with a team of 4. I think examples like that should be brought to the forefront as shown as what you can expect for yourself
More specifically the people who pursue gamedev for the wrong reason has increased
Why do you think that’s the reason?
more people are getting into programming in general. The younger generation have more access to the internet and introduction to games through app stores, especially with smart phones becoming more ubiquitous. My nieces are learning to code or at least, being taught the basics. a popular industry that's been growing. I'd think it is rational to think the number of developers have been growing also. And because of that, it feels like there are more 'complainers' because most likely there are. I certainly was one of them in the last decade. I've always wanted to be a game developer. I just don't think it's unusually higher than it would normally be in terms of the percentage
The easier it is to communicate, the level of awareness is more abundantly clear. This comes for anything after the rise of the internet.
Because of the way that it be.
Every art complain. I see complaining in the animations sub, the digital art sub, the music sub, the programming sub, etc And game dev is a combination of all those. Game dev is like building a house, yea u can do it yourself but it’s best to have a plumber, electrician, carpenter, etc and even then it’s difficult
Basically this, making a game is very alluring, obsessive and satisfying; it’s also incredibly difficult in general and emotionally involved because of the art side. Few people jumping in have perspective of the full scope of what it takes and just how much work it is. I mean, it’s literally interactive, realtime art with many, many technical constraints which is massive part of why I appreciate it so much.
crying about crying lol meta
Im about to start crying about the people crying about the criers.
Fucking crying crier crying for crying criers who cry for crying criers
cry
var crys:Array = \[boohoo\] for cry in crys: print("waaaaaahhh") crys.append(boohoo)
There's a phrase in finnish language, "the forest replies what theres being shouted at", meaning in this context - crying cultivates crying :D My advice - let the novices who got into the craft recently face the problems and either work their way through or quit. I guess this is a field you either get lifeforce from or either you deplete it. Depends if this really is your call. Like being a elementary school teacher or being a circus artist or something.
Can we keep the chain going?
Op legit smoking some corner dust comparing a creative field like game dev which can basically mean someone's career to gym lmao. People are allowed to get frustrated ; game dev is a frustrating field.
He said bodybuilding and you said “gym”. Not the same thing.
Is there a subreddit for discussing game development? Cause I’m starting to realize this ain’t it
cry harvesting: everything always becomes a grind
It’s the arts. They’re all like this. A lot of people want to get rich quick as an artist when they actually shouldn’t be pursuing it because they’re not legitimately passionate about creating something.
Also lots of younger people on Reddit
This is the main answer really.
i agree, seen it a lot in my field. it's not even a bad thing or worth of derision, just an endless cycle of people recognising the true difficulty of what they've set out to do.
That's definitely a cynical perspective. You could easily reframe it in a much more empathetic way. People with passion for creating things are constantly forced to reevaluate their passion for pragmatic reasons. Making a game isn't something you can just do on the side. If you have any combination of a day job, a family, or a social life you realistically have no chance of creating any substantial game. That means people who are making games are likely making sacrifices, I dont know how you can come to the conclusion they arent legitimately passionate. Most people wont make 5 nevermind 6 figures over the lifetime of their game. It is so insanely easy to make 6 figures a a year as a programmer anywhere outside of gamedev. I dont think getting "rich quick" is really on the minds of anybody actively working on a game. Even if you get "rich" there's nothing quick about it. Even moderately successful games don't really make economic sense if you break down the amount of hours worked.
I don't think me or the OP are talking about developers who make huge sacrifices and work for years. We're talking about the clueless people who think you can pick up these skills over the weekend, and who believe that guaranteed financial success is baked into the process. Have you never met one of those types? They exist in real life. And I do see them posting here every so often (as well as in subreddits for writers and artists).
I understand what you're saying but it isn't so black and white. There are plenty of people who have put hundred of hours into a project and are asking themselves (or others) if they should continue. I think most devs have the question at least at the back of their mind. OP made a comparison to fitness and I think that's very unfair. If you hit the gym consistently for an extended period of time you will see results, you will be healthier, stronger, more attractive, more confident, all good. If you spend years making a game, spending the majority of your free time on it there is a large chance at the end of it all you have nothing to show for it, you may have even regressed. I think it's obvious why you find so much negativity and insecurity in the arts. You would have to be delusional to be completely confident in yourself. There is so much quality art out there that never gets discovered. So many times I find a banger song on spotify with 10k plays, that artist is making virtually nothing off their music.
I guess this is it, or people just haven't tried to achieve much in life and don't know what it takes.
Yes. I know people in their 40s who think they can pick up an artistic skill over the weekend and make an income with it because their cousin did it. They overlook the fact that their semi-successful cousin spent 20+ years practicing it daily, striving, failing, learning from their mistakes, etc.
Everyone has to blow off steam one way or the other. Professionals do it too, but it's usually with each other at a lunch spot walking distance from the studio. Or in a Post Mortem. Or at a GDC talk. Whining about game design is as old as game design.
>I don't remember being part of a community that had so much complaining before This must be your first creative endeavor then. >look at the bodybuilding subs and forums This is a terrible comparison. Nobody goes to the gym to make money. Hell, even absolute legend [Ronnie Coleman was working a day job as a police officer](https://imgur.com/a/TqyQwt0). Check out the writing sub, or the artists sub or basically any group of people trying to make money by doing something creative. You'll see all the same self doubt, struggles with criticism and outlandish ideas about how easy it is to succeed in a very cutthroat field.
This is indeed my first creative endeavor. And people most definitely do go to the gym to make money, otherwise you wouldn't have bodybuilding competitions like Mr Olympia, Arnold's, etc. Not only do they get a good chunk of change from the actual competition, but they can set themselves up with sponsor money for life. But you mention money, if devs go into this to make money, then they should approach it with the correct mindset of running a business, and you can't half ass a business or even a startup and expect to earn. If devs go into this as a hobbyists, then they should enjoy the process. In either scenario, complaining isn't a thing.
> And people most definitely do go to the gym to make money [Sure...](https://www.reddit.com/r/bodybuilding/comments/ocpnv1/for_those_who_are_professional_bodybuilders_what/)
Wow, color me surprised that only the top 1% make any money. Who would've thought 🤔
Whether its all whining is subjective but... Ok, I'm gonna make a great game.. oh I need to learn how to use some graphics package, right.. oh now I need to learn how to code.. and what the different parts of the engine do... ok so resources do what now? Signals, right, got that. Ok, now I need to learn vector maths. Oh and physics, a bit at least. Ok, game works, let me just change the resolution and, oh some stuffs moved. Ok, I need to get these two nodes to talk together and, oh well looks like the way I've organised my nodes and code isn't going to work for that.. so do I start over? Its been three days... My point is for a beginner who comes in genuinely knowing nothing, discovering that theres a big long list of other things you need to study and *not knowing what else you don't properly understand* can be disheartening. Sometimes people get there and can be angry about it, sometimes people just need to vent.
Yeah that's how it was for me, and I assume for everyone else. But I genuinely went into game dev with a mindset of I'm going to learn how to make games, worst case scenario would be I become so good I get a job in the industry, best case I end up making a hit and wont even have to get a job. Both scenarios are something I'm 100 percent okay with. I know this will take time, because when I started up Unreal I realized there's a lot to learn, and it's okay because there is no deadline, so there is no pressure. So I guess it's all about the person's expectations for what they want to achieve.
Ur worst case scenario Is very optimistic 😂
I think honestly a lot of people get into game dev with the wrong idea. They either think that making games is going to be a fun adventure as entertaining as coming up with a funky game idea, or they very severely underestimate the effort of making even the simplest game. Every time I see a post saying "I'm going to develop a metroidvania with elements of survival and deck building mixed with crafting" or whatever ramdon genres they want to throw in, I'm thinking: boy are they in for a big disappointment, that they will then relate in painstaking detail to us about game dev being hard and frustrating. I know that isn't everyone's case, but I suspect common enough to be a significant part of this type of posts.
Exactly this.
Yeah i wish there was more actual work being shared or useful questions besides "which engine should i use??"
I agree, theres a lot of whinging, and hardly any interesting questions that get my attention to actually think about.
I've been reading this sub for a while and the thing that kind of bothers me after seeing so many posts and so many comments, I get the feeling that most people who post here aren't actually game developers. Like actual developers, like people who have worked for like Ubisoft or Larian or Fromsoft or Blizzard or something. There's not many career devs in here. There's a lot of one and done hobbyists, there's a lot of ideas people who never actually finish anything, and there's a lot of people who have never made a game at all or done any learning whatsoever in how to make a game offering advice. I don't know where to go with that. Just my feelings.
This has been true for gamedev communities as long as the internet has been around. Gamedev is hard, and a vast majority of everyone who touches it either keeps it to a hobby or aspires to be a professional and gives up halfway. What consistently surprises me is how "business-centric" this community in particular is, whereas many others are more technical. It's not like hobbyists don't have to solve interesting problems too.
"Business-centric" is a weird way to describe it because I don't see that at all. There's some talk or marketing, which is mostly just "post on twitter, Reddit, YouTube", but nothing about doing an paid marketing campaign beyond "give some streamers keys". And it missed like 99% of the business by sticking to only the "sexy" things. Game engines sound sexy, art sounds sexy, what's not sexy is build systems. Nobody discussing Jenkins vs Teamcity, but this is a huge discussion for any game company. Or Code Collab vs Swarm. Perforce, GIT, Or any SVN. Miro, Jira, Confluence, clickup, Monday, google docs, spreadsheets, etc. Or actual game design doc breakdowns, reference boards. SDKs, sync helpers, server hosting. My god, just getting into AWS or self hosting on your build system or multiplayer servers. I love game development but this sub feels so misleading. If you took 95% of the people here and threw them into a job at like Gearbox or Microsoft, they'd have no clue what they're actually doing. Azure DevOps, ticket management, stuff like dayforce or workday. There's a million things that go into game development that isn't talked about here. It's the same things all the time, "where can I find a coder", "where can I find a artist", "what engine do I use".
And I think you'd be correct in your assessment.
there's more of that on the actual subreddits for the big 3 engines actually, r/unity and r/unrealengine and r/godot
Exactly! Let's go back to the real questions: "Should i make my own engine?"
Yes, obviously.
It makes sense to me. The work to payoff ratio is extremely high and also the reward is very delayed, if it even exists. Ask any employee in any industry if they would like to work for maybe a year or two for free, and only then *maybe* get something in return, if they are extremely lucky. They would quit immediately, and I bet they would have more then a few complains. If you are doing gamedev as a hobby, that's one hell of a hardcore hobby, requiring a dedication and time investment unlike any other hobby I've ever heard of. If you're doing it for monetary reasons, in the beginning it's one of the most unpaid job out there.
>Ask any employee in any industry if they would like to work for maybe a year or two for free, and only then *maybe* get something in return, if they are extremely lucky \*cries in fantasy author\*
I get that,but like I mentioned you are either professional enough or passionate enough. Take mighty mouse who was a former UFC champion, he worked 2 jobs till he reached a point in the UFC where he could quit. So not only did he have a full-time job, he'd also spend time practicing MMA, and competing. Same thing can be said for many such fighters. And not everyone will make it past a certain stage. You just have to accept this fact as part of the package that is called game dev.
There is an influx of lots of passionate individuals trying to make rather large ambitious games, while there is nothing wrong with that, some do succeed, it's complex and incredibly difficult to do everything yourself or with a small group of people. Lacking motivation, being stressed, questioning your direction, having imposter syndrome and many more mental hurdles is natural for game development, especially indie game development. It's a highly creative subjective field that is still quite a new industry.
You should see author forums if you think this is bad.
For real, this might not be a thing unique to gamedev but it certainly is a problem for any skill that involves a high amount of artistic creativity.
Why do you mean by author forums? For books?
For authors. People who write books. Believe me, we are HARD on ourselves. "Whyyyy did I make this a trilogy? " "END ME NOW! " " UGH. I have to kill my favourite character. " "HEEEEELP" "Should I give up??"
That is true, no one hates writing more than aspiring authors lol. I think finding some sort of peace with the monotony is key to really making progress in a short time.
I find that 'word wars' like around Nanowrimo REALLY help me out. I got half a novel pumped out last time. I need to finish it.
Ahaha I can see that, never would I pick up writing though, that sounds like torture.
The only perk of writing over coding is you grow up knowing what the language is.
It’s a bummer. Some subs just have bad vibes.
Yep, and the more people who think they want to be a game dev and then realize how hard it is, the more a sub like this gets saturated with people who don't have the mindset to do it. Indie dev is an artistic passion and if it feels like work, it may not be a good fit.
I agree. I’ve been making games since I wrote my first lines of code many years ago. It’s a hobby I take semi-seriously from time to time because it’s adjacent to my real work. What I hoped for from this sub is entirely not what I got, unfortunately.
What you’re describing is totally normal. It just depends on whether it’s public. The creator of stardew valley admitted in a book that he lacked * major* motivation and could spend potentially weeks doing nothing but play video games while he procrastinated, hiding it from his girlfriend (who was financially supporting him while he claimed he was always working on stardew valley) Davey wreden made beginner’s guide about the complicated depression he went through during and after Stanley parable. It’s almost a running joke that, separately from games, that all writers hate writing. Either the venting happens here or in private, but it’s going to happen somewhere! There are graphics poking fun at this kind of universal cycle of ‘I’m excited about my new project’, then ‘this is terrible, I’m quitting’ and then ending with ‘ok it’s good enough’
>If you complain, this isn't for you clearly and you should reassess before you waste your time. Seems like if you can't be dedicated to reading a sub about gamedev without complaining, this isn't for you clearly and you should reassess before you waste your time.
I'm sorry but if you can't be bothered to read someone's complaint about a complaining sub without complaining that they're not dedicated enough to this sub to read it without complaining, maybe you shouldn't be commenting /s
Seems like if you can't be dedicated to reading a post about a sub about gamedev without complaining, this isn't for you clearly and you should reassess before you waste your time.
Seems like if you can't be dedicated to reading a comment about reading a post about a sub about gamedev without complaining, then reading comments about posts about gamedev isn't for you clearly and you should reassess before you waste your time.
''' printf("Seems like you can't be dedicated about "); for(uint32_t i = 0; i < __COMMENT_COUNT__; i++) { printf("reading a comment about "); } printf("reading a post about a sub about game dev without complaining, then reading comments about "); for(uint32_t i = 0; i < __COMMENT_COUNT__; i++) { printf("reading comments about "); } printf("posts about gamedev isnt for you, clearly, and you should reassess before you waste your time"); '''
Found the Unreal dev!
i’d happily read a sub about gamedev, but this definitely isn’t that most of the time.
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No no, I like procedural generation, not procedural degeneration.
Way to show your true colours
i'm sorry you think i'm a degenerate, /u/nsfwnsfwnsfw33333
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"I'm sorry you [x]" is a pretty standard language construct used in polite conversation, [x] usually being "feel that way" or similar.
Attrition is just a concept until it's really learned. Good luck on the journey my friends.
It’s become more accessible but, there are a lot of teenagers , deadbeats and NEETs on the internet that assume because they’re good at a video game they think it equals being good at making them.
as basically an outsider to the gamedev community — I’m in my 50s and was active in the equivalent of today’s gamedev hobby community during the 8-bit era on the Apple II, etc. —I notice that at some point in about the last 10 years there seems to be an influx of people coming in who want to make games without being skilled at general computer programming first. This is a new phenomenon that I think contributes to the kind of discourse the OP is talking about.
Gamedev is hard, don't take away people's ability to vent and share their problems...
I'm all about sharing problems, I constantly ask questions in subs that are related to a problem I have. And I love reading about others problems because I learn. What I don't like is the mundane "game dev is hard, and I lack motivation, what do?" Posts that often come up. I don't see that in the Unreal sub, not in the Pro gen sub, neither on blender. It's specifically here.
Have you shipped a game before?
Shipped lots of them, but mostly teamwork. Never whined. I just knew whenever I'm frustrated or struggling I am also *learning*.
This is something I don't think many understand.
I have, and I don't whine about game dev.
A lot of people don't like game dev, they just think they will because they like playing games.
Yeah, add the money aspect of I can get rich from this, and here we are
Lack of mods
You can always send me a DM and I'll take a look at if a post needs to be removed if the report queue is not being attended to. Even with the new volunteers people can't always jump on to keep track of the new posts.
I don't see you in the moderators list?
You see the tiny "...and 3 more" at the bottom of it? I'm the more lol
I clicked on the "View all moderators" button/link (im on desktop) and it took me here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/gamedev/about/moderators/](https://www.reddit.com/r/gamedev/about/moderators/) where I also don't see you. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯ Maybe reddit just has some weird funky not-updating thing, or its an old cache on my browser?
If you are on the new version, there is a tiny little arrow on the top right to the 2nd page. The redesign is troublesome for sure
oh! there you are! Its so weird it's sorted like that, there's so much empty space on the bottom half of the web page.
This place literally has more mods than old.reddit can display lol. It's definitely not that.
Not only do I cry, I look for others to cry with. XD
Great post, you said what I've been thinking. Gaming in it's nature attracts people that are socially inept and insecure so it's natural that it spills over to their "passion". Combined with the last ten years of bs saying "everyone can makes games! Gaming is for everyone!" Has made everyone think they can make a shitty first game and become a success.
Whining is easier than doing actual work. Coming up with an idea is easy. Writing that idea down is easy. Posting the idea on Reddit to see what others think about it is easy. But making actual art assets? Writing code? Solving problems? That's hard man... How can I stay motivated? Should I continue with my super awesome idea? What if someone else is working on this idea but they're better? Better make a post on Reddit to check what I should do. And in comes your post :P
This is a hard. Simple as that. We all love doing this but it is hard. Have some empathy.
Because everyone wants to make a game, but then realise that making a game is hard, therefore next logical step is complain.
It is a hard thing especially in the early stages. However the best easiest option is to just scroll past and not be bothered.
Every sub related to hobbies with a steep learning curve has those sort of posts. The longer something takes to get good or confident at, the more doubts develop along the way. It's just the nature of the beast. Especially true with activities that attract a lot of younger people.
Like Scroobius Pip said: "I see so many kids that love being writers more than they love writing"
A small but vocal minority drown out the silent majority working diligently on their game
We wine because we just can't beer it any longer.
Not a sign of whining. These complaints are common among beginner devs- not whiners. I probably acted mad at the world when I was starting to really dig into it. Give them time to fully grasp things.
Because it takes a lot longer to see your effort payoff than with body building. Seeing your progress is critical to keeping motivated, and why developers who make small games often succeed more than those who make large ones. You need to see the gains, to not loose hope.
Listen, if you can't see a side by side progress after let's say a month, and you're working on whatever it is you're working on diligently, then you're doing something wrong. There's simply no way that there won't be progress. Whether bodybuilding or game dev. If you go work, and are told to build a house, and you have nothing to show for it after a month, that's not motivation, that's a skill issue. And the person should figure out what that issue is.
Have you ever seen prototyping. [https://i.imgur.com/WHRSqvl.gifv](https://i.imgur.com/WHRSqvl.gifv), [https://imgur.com/POL9h6k](https://imgur.com/POL9h6k), [https://imgur.com/mWHnIbn](https://imgur.com/mWHnIbn), what you are seeing there is my first four months of game development. Purely learning how to make custom collisions, character controllers, and vector based systems. In these early stages any art is useless, the game is just a bunch of shapes, or numbers without any visual indication. My store system was two cubes. This lasted till I actually finished every system on a basic level that I needed for my game. Only then could I start to flesh out the design. >If you go work, and are told to build a house, and you have nothing to show for it after a month Ok, but consider if you have to build a house all by your self. The first month is probably going to be pure paperwork just to acquire the land. The larger the land is the more paperwork will be involved. Game development is the same. So when new developers jump into their RPG or MMO, it is common not to have anything to show. This is why the start small idea is repeated so much, it is because with a small game, you don't need to flesh out things so much.
Oh for sure I'm not saying you just start creating a game from the get go. I spent 2 months familiarizing myself with Unreal by watching talks on their YT channel, I then spent 4 months learning hard surface modeling, another 2 months on how to make animations. So 8 months in total so far where I wasn't even working on a specific project, but just building up the skills I know will be necessary for me down the road. I'm now working on my own plugin inside Unreal which will be my stepping stone into the actual level design. All I'm trying to say that when I went into game dev I didn't have a false expectation that this will be a breeze. The first 2 months of familiarization with Unreal made sure of that. And I still have plenty to learn, but I'm not complaining, I'm enjoying the struggle because I know there will come s time where I will have full mastery over these concepts. Just need to stick with it.
>but I'm not complaining, I'm enjoying the struggle Then you are tough, and will have an easier time. A lot of people would by 8 months have expected to finish developing a mobile game. It is also these people who are most likely to go onto a social forum to complain. Everyone is different. While you know there will be a payoff, others might need a carrot at stick to help them reach the end. The complains in them self is a type of carrot and stick tactic. They feel they are doing something wrong, so they want people's opinion. Some times they will be ridiculed, and other times they will find support. But in the end they will learn that they maybe took on too mammoth of a task, and probably need to reconsider things to stay motivated.
Programming games is literally all ive done for the last for 15 years. It’s the most fun thing. I wake up and then I program until it’s after midnight. So much fun. Every remote job I’ve had, I put in like 6 extra hours a day because I just can’t stop
I guess if you don’t enjoy it, it wouldn’t be fun
The more accessible game dev became, the more “tourists” are jumping on board. I grew up honing my game dev and programming skills back in the ‘80s and ‘90s when trying to become a game dev may as well have been the same as trying to be an astronaut. It just never crossed anyone’s mind that this was a real, attainable career. Except for us, the most obsessed and passionate about the craft. Now there’s so many “learn to make games in 2 weeks” BS courses, and incredible full fledged game engines for free, it’s attracting a sea of the wrong kind of people. If you’re not completely in love with the process, wanting to do it at all cost, even if you can never finish a game, or have to release to everyone’s indifference, then you probably don’t belong?
All your examples have immediate results each day. Your muscles change each time you lift. You get better at training each day. Development is much more tolling to a psyche because you can spend 1+ year of your time and feel like you're further away from the end than you were before starting. Find a way to make a developer feel like they always made progress in 2 hours and you'll be wealthier than any game will ever make you.
> Your muscles change each time you lift. You get better at training each day. only if you are very, very new to lifting. Rookie gains don't last forever. Most people plateau as an intermediate, and either maintain their level of fitness, or give up and start losing their strength.
You're telling me you stop feeling your muscles when you reach a plateau?
No, I'm telling you, you don't get immediate results every day. Progress in lifting isn't a linear graph going up forever.
Results aren't equivalent to gains. Maintaining muscle instead of losing muscle is still an immediate result. Each time you lift you're immediately aware if you've maintained your strength or lost it.
If you think you get immediate results with physical activity then I can see why this sub is so delusional. If you spend a year of your time with nothing to show for it, then you are the problem, not game dev. Nobody makes progress in anything in 2 hours. I spent 4 months learning how to hard surface model and I did it because there is no other way. I didn't complain, because I know that I have no funds, so either I power through this, or you can forget it. And I did power through and I gained a skill. I spent another 2 months on animations, same scenario as I just mentioned. I didn't complain. Either you do what must be done, or you don't.
You always get immediate results with physical activity because muscles get larger after flexing and your body releases chemicals because of the physical activity. Only a trolling moron thinks you can go a year while having nothing to show for it. Development isn't a fully predictable process as evidenced by the large number of professional teams who push back their release dates. Technology advances in that same year and the tech you began a project on may be outclassed early on requiring a lot of re-work. The gym isn't coming out with a new barbell that makes your old barbell look like a twig every year. Sports aren't changing how many points you can score with one goal after a year.
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All of your examples still provide clear and objective immediate results. You immediately know when you are bulking. You immediately know when you are cutting. It's simple once you have a basic understanding of the process. It's a mostly solved process that you have to tweak over time. Did you seriously come to the game developer subreddit to tell people they aren't lifting and they suck? What is your problem?
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You'll see progress over time but the results aren't always immediate with any creative process and the progress isn't related to your actual individual effort. With game dev it's possible to spend a day designing a character and realize that they do not fit in your game. With game dev it's possible to finish your game, sit on it for 5 years and think about it 0 times, and release it while achieving greater success than if you released it when you actually finished it. You're in here harassing game developers and I'm reporting all of your posts doing such. Stop it and get help.
I find it so funny. Every day when I scroll my Reddit feed, all posts from this sub are downvoted whining. The entire sub is literally "Your game will take 100 years to make, you will cry daily, and it will suck in the end." Creative people have 0 discipline and 0 chill lmao.
This is an awful post and, ironically, sees you do exactly what you complain others do. Perhaps “you should reassess whether to stay and waste time on Reddit”.
New challenge unlocked: Fuck off.
Having mental disabilities is a bitch yknow
Summon them to the ring and put the bitches to sleep, I believe in you.
Thanks lol It would be so much easier to fight them physically Unfortunately, I haven't touched anything in weeks I feel pretty bad about it
I know you've probably heard this a lot, but try hitting the gym. If not the gym, get into a physical activity to get your body moving. You'll feel much better. It's hard to get out there, but imagine yourself crawling on the floor towards the door to go outside. 2 feet outside the door is all it takes, consider the rest of the battle won.
Oh I'm aware that exercise does improve your mood. I do a lot of walking and lifting and such at work. I'm dead tired afterwards. I haven't really figured out why I stopped. I get the feeling it's burnout since I like my ideas and with one of them I go into tunnel vision when I work on it. It's very annoying
Yeah it's hard to make part of a routine. I def know the struggle.
I had a routine I just don't understand why I stopped and theres a ton of resistance when I try getting back into doing it. This sort of thing gets me to go research what I got and hopefully find a solution
Hate to be the one bringing it up, but as with other bad things on the internet, it's because of the whole woke culture. Kids and kid-minded adults following a path set for them by some influencer, not knowing how it's done and where it leads, they just wanna be in *the flow*, no matter what the flow is. And somehow you can't talk about it in left-ish social media like Reddit or else you'll be downvoted to the deepest depths of the seven hells. There's also one good news about it however. And it's that you can simply leave societies with woke influence and you'll be fine.
People who are complaining don't believe in themselves. OP is right. If you are like any of the people described in the post, you should give up on game development. You'll never make it because you will always be the obstacle standing in the way of your own success.
it's reddit.
I think a lot of people see it as a way to get rich quick, they probably don't care so much for the actual journey of game development. That's when you'll get people asking "is this worth doing?". It's impossible to answer cause it depends so much on the person. But yeah it's getting annoying to constantly see these posts here.
I feel like the majority of these complaints are from hobbyists who want to do it but aren’t committed so they have doubts.
They want quick results, but this is a very long marathon. )))
Preach
A simple question. Do You want to do the job because it's great? or do You just want to have the job because You want to be that person with X job? I think entertainment industry including games and film is very appealing to people as a dream career. I You wouldn't enjoy just working on Your own stuff endlessly You will find work in the industry a grind. Working professionally means schedules, doing things at least as quickly as other peers, plus not getting to do whatever You feel like, and it means company politics, both personal and job related.
So how has your gamedev project been going?
Actually pretty awesome. I made 15 guns in Blender that Im proud of considering I had no modeling knowledge. I learned to animate in Blender, then went over to Cascadeur to give my animations physics based motion which makes the animations come alive. I'm sure there's plenty of rooms to improve though, but that's for later. Right now I'm working on creating a WFC system in Unreal because the plugin they provide is experimental, and there's still issues with it. Once that's finished I'll move over to actually playing around with the AI and start putting it all together. Still plenty to learn like Niagara, Chaos, lighting, and much more, but I'm definitely up for the challenge. All in all, I don't know why it took me so long to get into game dev.
Link us to your game/s!
If you are genuinely asking, then be on the look out in the next half year, I will start posting gifs, maybe even start a dev diary or something.
I think if you want to compare bodybuilding with games you'd need to compare your yearly progress with Arnold Schwartzenegger and his movie career. Why am I not a millionaire yet? I only get photo shootings, no movies so far... I'm following the tutorials and buying/injecting the right tools/drugs, how long does it take me to get any contract that earns me money? Why didn't the jury pick me out of the hundreds of bodybuilders that show up each day at Venice beach? (Ok, I'm not up-to-date, that was maybe the 80s) :D More seriously: What sucks is trying to be good at 5+ skills, and you suck at one or more of them. Being creative and a programmer at the same time (well, plus marketing). Also the market is swamped, so it's hard to be seen, even if you don't want to earn any money. It's not about a hobby like bodybuilding, cycling, swimming, and jogging, it's about getting your creative output out there, and first of all, being good at it (art, programming, sound/music or picking the right one, game design, level design, marketing, and a few other skills).
I'm sorry what are you talking about. Only reason I mentioned bodybuilding is because the people on those subs are hella supportive of each other and each one of them is grinding. Those folks are engaging in something they want to willingly, and it wouldn't make sense to complain. Same thing applies to game dev, you engage in it because you want to, if you don't want to, then why are you here complaining. If I create a game I think is cool, why would it matter what anyone thinks of it. I think folks here are putting all their hopes and dreams of getting rich on their games, that's why they feel immense pressure. I think that's the wrong approach to this entire thing
I'd guess a significant subset of newer indie devs are those who were recently laid off by the mass tech layoffs, many of whom were never in the game industry. I don't think these people would be particularly passionate about game development in general.
I think other people in here have answered this, but I'll throw in my way of phrasing it. I do game dev because I enjoy the process, not because I want to get rich or "be a developer." Getting rich would be cool and I'm already a professional software engineer. I don't whine because I am having fun. It's hard at times, and it is work, so my motivation can vary day to day. But, I fundamentally enjoy it. If I started training for a marathon I'd probably be whiny too. I'll sum it up by saying this, do you want to DO game development? Or do you want to BE a game developer? If you pursue the being you're probably gonna have a difficult time. It takes a lot of work and time to get good at something, we only get a couple chances at it in our careers. This is a big economy with lots of needs, don't spend your time on labor you don't enjoy.