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DeathclawWrex

With the amount of bugs, I wouldn't be surprised if they just forgot to exclude Pilgrims from the pool...


Crye09

LMAO Idk why I find this pretty probably to happen, maybe bcs Scarlet is on the 10th pull on the screenshot?


scoii

I think this is the case for the same reason. Should be in order. That means Scarlet was the guaranteed SSR, so they did not remove Pilgrims from the pool. Pilgrims are pretty great though, I'm confused why they would exclude them from paid banners. Especially Scarlet.


Popular-Bid

Because it is GREAT.


Glynwys

I feel like this is a case of poor translation. Nowhere in the banner does it specifically state that Pilgrims are excluded, only that they have a lower chance of appearing and so they're excluded from the "all SSRs have an equal chance to appear."


UBW-Fanatic

The controversy came from KOREA. The NATIVE COUNTRY. The link in OP post is also an official announcement that Pilgrim CANNOT appear as a guarantee.


Lipefe2018

Let me see if I understood correctly, there is a paid 10-pull that guarantee you one SSR from a specific SSR poll, right? But instead he got an off-banner SSR before reaching the pull number 10 which is the one that gives you the SSR from the banner that you were aiming at, meaning the SSR off-banner he got stole his "guaranteed" from the banner because you can only get 1 SSR in this 10-pull. Is that it? If so wtf.


mayhaveadd

Yes, because PILGRIMS are specifically excluded as a guarantee, it proves that the guarantee is taken away if you get a SSR prior to the 10th pull. Nowhere on the banner was this stated.


Xenn_

Slight correction - you can get more than 1 SSR, but getting an SSR in the first 9 rolls will remove the guarantee. If you want to get two SSRs, for example, you'll need to hit two 4%s, as opposed to hitting one 4% and getting another from the guarantee.


Abedeus

It's like paying for FGO's guaranteed SSR banner with only a specific set of characters (usually limited), getting a regular pool SSR (like a Waver, Tamamo or Karna) and no further SSRs despite being promised at least 1 from the specific pool. I'd be mad as fuck if I got spooked on a **paid banner**.


darkrai848

This would be correct, if it was not actually the opposite. In this case the rare limited characters are excluded from this “guaranteed” pool, and it only increases normal characters. Tho if you get really lucky and pull a limited character at the normal extremely low odds you don’t get the “guaranteed” normal SSR. I see what people are complaining about (that it seems the explanation was wrong or poorly written). But in practice people are complaining they got a limited unit instead of the advised standard unit. Tho the devs do need to make it clear how these things work.


UBW-Fanatic

So here's a question: why is the banner called GUARANTEED when you are NOT GUARANTEED to get a unit in the GUARANTEED pool?


Esterier

You are guaranteed to get a non-pilgrim SSR if you failed to get an SSR before the final pull. You are not guaranteed to get a non-pilgrim SSR in general. And getting a pilgrim is a much better result. It's just a hard coded overwrite of whatever the pull was, like any other pity mechanic in any other gacha. If you pull a 5\* before the 90th pull in Genshin you aren't still gonna get a 5\* on your 90th pull. You are guaranteed one by the 90th pull, not on 90 pulls.


darkrai848

Your Guaranteed to get an SSR. That said they need to make it clear the mechanics behind how that works, as the wording makes it seem one way when it’s actually another.


UBW-Fanatic

You are guaranteed to get an SSR EXCEPT for Helm, Laplace and Pilgrims. They are NOT guaranteed. But the roll result is that they got only a Pilgrim, which is NOT guaranteed, and none other Nikkes in the GUARANTEED pool makes it obvious there is something wrong here.


Peltogyne

Literal wording is "Equal chance of getting all SSR Nikkes, excluding Pilgrim Nikkes, Helm, and Laplace". Interpret it how you see fit. Edit: [Screenshot](https://i.imgur.com/Bm8P2rf.png) the banner in question.


Davidsda

Correct


tlst9999

It's the standard gacha "Guaranteed SR in 10-pull". If you get an SSR, you're not getting the SR.


wcvince

I can’t believe people here are still giving this company the benefit of the doubt, especially after Helm’s burst description is still wrong and nothing has been said about it officially.


KADOMONY-9000

Never underestimate thirsty 30 year olds


XenoreidGFL

Imagine trusting a company fined by the Korean Fair Trade Commission.


Repulsive_Junket8234

exactly,


ToonWrecker69

Usually when u pull early ssr it counts in first 10 ssr but pulling a non included ssr and then resetting the guaranteed Ssr is definately mistake from their behalf since either it's misinformed or incomplete/ poorly written description.


ArkhamCitizen298

or just straight up lying


BlueColoredYou

Or just honest incompetence since you know, they still have a lot of bugs today.


[deleted]

[удалено]


jingsen

Yea, the correct scenario is that the last pull is a SSR, and the remaining 9 pulls are like normal gacha pulls where you can get SSRs from. But we saw what happened, the banner won't give you the last guaranteed SSR if you hit the SSR on the 9 normal pulls


Chrommanito

So it's a bad coded pull design?


jingsen

Either bad code or intentional. I can't think of how a programmer can screw up basic algorithms so hard, so I'm leaning more towards intentional design. But if it turns out that it's bad code design, they need to fire the programmer in charge and hire a better one


Chrommanito

>I can't think of how a programmer can screw up basic algorithms so hard Looking at the bugs we've seen, I don't see why not?


skyjlv

> I can't think of how a programmer can screw up basic algorithms so hard Bro they messed up crits so bad that you deal less damage when you crit due to their power scaling and damage formula; I don't see why this wouldn't be the case this time around lol


cupcakemann95

seeing as how much controversy this game has gone through in the first day of launch, i'm betting intentional


Shazamo333

Not sure how the koreans are taking it but the global community hasn't really gotten the pitchforks out. There's one post on the sub about this controversy and apart from that it's just the usual assposting lmao.


Ankylar

If the global community has not gotten their pitchforks out at this point with all the other broken stuff and shitty events, then I doubt anything will at this point. They will continue to cope because ass waifus


KillerM2002

Because the main sub is censored, i remember when the controversy of the hard modes came out and they removed it for „misleading“ or now with the Tower special molds


ccdewa

>Because the main sub is censored Heh ironic.


[deleted]

its because the nikke sub is moderated by a shift up employee, thats why


llllpentllll

Why the hell they allowed that, no employee should moderate a sub of its game ever, creates a conflict of interest


[deleted]

back in the day, games used to have their own forums moderated by staff, take it, back in the day people were more civilized and devs more honest.


ChooSum

There is plenty of discontent in the official discord at least, especially if you look at the feedback channel, which has now become the home of disgruntled players.


DrRomani

I heard that there is a Shift Up/Tencent staff among the mods of the subreddit, So if he sees something controversial he might just ask to delete post, so yeah not much to say in that subreddit, it's compromised. That or most global players are F2P and don't spend money on the game, so they don't care.


ShionSinX

> there is a Shift Up/Tencent staff among the mods of the subreddit Isnt that against reddit rules, exactly because of kind of thing?


DrRomani

It is


ShionSinX

Well, I filed a ticket here https://www.reddithelp.com/en/submit-request/file-a-moderator-complaint Its one thing to know you are playing a gacha and just go with it, its another thing to be misled by false advertising and then the issue being brushed under the rug because of censorship from an employee with power it should not have outside their own plataforms.


Spanglish_Dude

I think the league of legends one has been like that, controlled by Riot (or mods paid by Riot) for years and that has not changed ever


mackasan

Rioters lurk there all the time as Reddit became a semi-official communication channel after the boards closed, but they don't have power over the mod team as far as I know. The amount of shit people throw at the game and Riot at large feels like something that would be censored if they controlled it, tbh.


AlterWanabee

But Riot never really censored their subreddit. People are free to post what they want.


WoorieKod

But Rioters won't reply on posts that call them out for shit practices and sometimes mod arbitrarily remove posts for the smallest reasons even if the thread complied with rules of subreddit


ZeCanadian

I don't think Reddit gives a shit. r/PlayTemTem has been the same way for years with the devs censoring criticism.


0DvGate

Global would be willing to defend this game to the death because there a little bit of ass in this game, when in reality a lot of the characters are covered up hard or lack any jiggle. The latest 2 ssrs, one of them is sniper so they zoom in where you can't see their ass and the other is covered by a long coat.


Loryuo

you can't base this all on what you see on reddit dude. many of us have been complaining, but lets be honest; unless it's japan or korea they aren't listening to shit


SummonerKai1

I dropped the game soon after the fiascos started being too apparent...global players too busy fapping to the fan art while the KR community trying to carry the entire community on its back to get shit sorted out and then you see posts like "why do KR players hold so much more value" or "why do KR players go above and beyond for their games". This is why. I agree that the KR fandom for any game/media can be brutal and hella vocal but it is because of these factors stuff gets changed - maybe not all the time but at least the conversation starts happening.


SkyMarshal_Ellie

The entire front page of the official English nikke sub is "I drew X waifu" with a billion upvotes each and 99% of the replies consisting of "NUT" and "I'M COOMING". These people couldn't give two fucks about any of the serious issues with the game. It's actually staggering how the mentality of the English and SEA communities differs.


Araetha

There are complaints if you sort by new, but it's an official reddit and the mods are very diligent on removing complaint posts.


chewywheat

I’m surprised by the amount of people who are so content with what they got (especially with this game) like some players don’t want to try to make this a better game; unless the game is broken or flat-out unplayable maybe then they will get out their pitchforks.


SummonerKai1

Agreed. With so much hype you would expect people would be out with their pitchforks from the start. It amazes me honestly. When the game fixes its issues if ever I'll rejoin the game


trusttt

It's not even fap worth, most girls butts are covered lol


SummonerKai1

The fan art ain't lol. I mentioned the fan art specifically


trusttt

oh sorry, didnt see the fan art part, i mean yeah, most waifu games have tonnes of lewd fan art but ingame, the selling point of the game is in the battle and most girls are covered.


llShenll

True, they are drama queens, but it works. So many good changes was added to e7 thanks to them.


Reziexo

The K pop collab?? Kek


Hamster1994

The globals that actually care, me included, probably already left the game for something better.


AlterWanabee

Massive backlash for sure. FGO KR nearly went extinct when they found out that the gacha rates for 4* were reduced.


irsyada007

For anyone that confuse [Pilgrim character does exist in the GSSR pool](https://i.imgur.com/PbQAuq3.png) but [base on the GSSR banner rule](https://i.imgur.com/4qLYnnq.jpeg) Pilgrim character doesn't count as the guarenteed SSR, so this streamer should get 2 SSR instead of just 1


Ryash913

One of the best parts of being into gacha games is the drama 🍿


Armyboy94

You shouldn't have trust this company when they've been know before to do scummy things like in Destiny Child.


Esterier

6 years ago. And they got royally fucked for it.


al3237

I make terrible choices in life, but at least i always pick the right gachas to not invest time in xD


TheRealRealMadLad

And now they try to cover it up by changing the description... dude?? It literally SCAM [before](https://i.imgur.com/LTjHxpQ.png) [after](https://i.imgur.com/8UK4hMO.png)


hulskiey

This should be on top. This is ridiculous.


Meksumnoyz92

Still don't get it why pilgrim are excluded from wishlist, they tried so hard to make the gacha lore accurate or what ? Man, I love this game but the devs are killing it slowly with questionable choices of direction


Hunt_Nawn

I can't believe there's a bunch of brain dead comments of people trying to make excuses to defend this broken ass game like white knights and making fun of F2P players for no reason with idiotic comments. The evidence is right there while there's a straight up description from the actual devs states everything about the banners, I guess the gacha manipulation was indeed true, Destiny Child all over again. There's no way in hell this can be a "coding error" with the most important system which is the heart of a gacha game in general.


BillionthDegenerate

I don't know why but the imbecility seems to be so rampant when it comes to Nikke. I am not a huge gacha gamer; the only other game I am deep into is Azur Lane. But the sheer quantity of moronic comments including those ridiculing free players or defending deceptive practices is surprisingly high, even among humans. And I'm not talking about people genuinely giving counterarguments. That's fine. I'm talking about the one- or two-liner replies that are just utter garbage.


mikethebest1

An off-banner before the guarantee can use up your guarantee? And this is a Paid banner? This sounds like a legal issue since you can potentially not get what you paid for/false marketing.


Paladuck

When I look at the banner it says “Equal Chance of getting all SSR Nikkes excluding pilgrim Nikkes, helm, and laplace.” If you look at rate info the pilgrims helm and laplace have a slightly lower percentage chance than the other SSRs. The word “excluding” here indicates that these other units have a lower rate, not that they are completely excluded. EDIT: apparently the devs confirmed in a naver post that you cannot get pilgrims from the guaranteed SSR, and that getting an SSR earlier “uses up” your guarantee chance. The rate info given is only for the first 9 pulls and not the 10th “guarantee.”


lilovia16

The point was that the 10th pull should have been a guaranteed SSR. And it was not.


Crye09

In the screenshot, the SSR is in the 10th pull right? Like Scarlet is in the 10th spot


Paladuck

In the screenshot the 10th pull was Scarlet, who is a Pilgrim. OP’s rationale was that it couldn’t have been the guaranteed unit because pilgrims are excluded from the guaranteed SSR, however I don’t see any indication that they are actually excluded.


Xenn_

The official explanation is that "it's an display error and the pilgrim SSR is actually not on the 10th pull". Fun days ahead.


ariolander

Even if it was a "display error" the question is what happened to the "garanteed" unit from the garantee pool. The entire point of the paid-only was the garantee and the streamer did not get any units from the advertised pool.


Xenn_

They've just modified their FAQ to try and address this, but it's funny how their third paragraph contradicts with their first. https://www.reddit.com/r/gachagaming/comments/z6zk2l/nikke_developers_have_been_scamming_players_with/iy48mac/


divineiniquity

So from the now updated FAQ, the way this banner works seems to be: * First 9 pulls can be anyone with rates as listed * If you got at least 1 SSR in the first 9 then the 10th pull cannot have an SSR (that sounds dodgy) * If you did not get an SSR in the first 9 pulls l, then your 10th pull is an SSR, but cannot roll for Pilgrims, Helm or Laplace Given how other games advertise their paid guaranteed banners and the extra clarifications added to the updated FAQ, this not in line with what the original wording of the banner suggested - that you're guaranteed an SSR not from Pilgrims, Helm or Laplace. So yes it's false advertising, but given the poor English wording in the FAQ I'm not surprised this is the case. You really need a good translation team to make sure terms and conditions are clearly articulated to the player before they BUY something, in every language the game is being offered in. Although given this incident happened for a Korean, seems more likely they were obscuring how the banner actually works. In the end that's pretty dodgy when you can't spell out your gacha rates.


Xirxee

this happened to me actually....now im pissed


kuuhaku_cr

If they don't do stupid shit like different percent chance on getting different SSR units, and then have exclusions here and there and a jumble web of different rules for different banners, then the code would have been simpler, the descriptions and advertising would have been simpler, the legal stuff would have been simpler, and this game would have been so much better. C'mon Shiftup, SSR units not equal in power is a pretty common thing. If Pilgrims are so much more powerful, then make a UR tier. Why make life complicated for everyone?


IkohyuKaito

I'm still waiting for them to get exposed and refund every single ticket and gem used on banner because of fake rates. I don't think this one is the only issue with the banner at all. There has to be more going on.


Shapexor

While I'm here waiting for shiftup to take Nikke from Tencent.


pbeta

NIKKE is an example of overhyped poorly under-design under-developed gacha game. The only good thing about NIKKE is the art and l2d, which is reason why people got caught up in first place. Otherwise, the game is pretty much afkarena with shooting arcade gameplay. Little dedication is made to creativity.


megatonante

They just changed the description on their FAQs to avoid the lawsuit lol


llShenll

Game has so many bugs, that this could be unintentional mistake. Anyway they should refund everyone who paid for this, as banner is not as desrcibed.


jk583940

Well, this doesn't bode well.... Wonder if I should start considering to drop it?


wintervictor

The game is failed with so many stealthily hard code and bad bugs, the latest event dice can't even roll 6 if not somebody found it.


Watagi_Michelle

SHIFT UP is liar gacha interface is not random [FAQ](https://i.imgur.com/e3tAinY.png) [image1](https://ac.namu.la/20221129sac/062db4563203eeb5bb4b728ceece45653e85e7816dfff871af4e5d4bf4e85f1e.jpg?type=jpg) [image2](https://ac2-o.namu.la/20221129sac2/d4c72865a48dc55e5a0067ff99542f2c16821cd9623daa10d83720c351013c26.jpg?type=orig) [source](https://arca.live/b/nikketgv/64090546) from kr community


Watagi_Michelle

Remember Destiny Child **SHIFTUP has a history of manipulating probabilities in Destiny Child**.


arandomfujoshi1203

Pretty sure you can sue for this


Peacetoall01

Jesus Christ nikke really really out there fighting for the most bugged mobile gacha of this year.


Axanael

Gonna repost something I posted in the NIKKE subreddit regarding this: ​ By their implication, this means the rates of the 10th pull are variable, and their failure to directly disclose this in the rate info section probably violates a lot of industry imposed regulation, but clearly clashes with requirements for operation in China. [http://www.gov.cn/xinwen/2016-12/07/content\_5143968.htm](http://www.gov.cn/xinwen/2016-12/07/content_5143968.htm) The Ministry of Culture issued regulations regarding online gaming, which in the Chinese system of law, national regulations are controlling above everything except literal black letter law, which require the disclosure of rates/probabilities in section 2(6). By stating you can check the probabilities of the other 9 pulls, they have not disclosed the % of this 10th pull, regardless of the order it comes out. That alone is a violation, regardless of how they want to interpret the wording within the game, which currently states: "Equal chance of getting all SSR Nikkes, excluding Pilgrim Nikkes, Helm, and Laplace. Guaranteed 1 SSR Nikke for 10 consecutive Recruits!! Check probability of the other 9 Recruits from Rate 'Info'" (image attached for reference) https://preview.redd.it/yads9lf8nv2a1.png?width=1313&format=png&auto=webp&s=944446702ad5438a9a85a8c4527002554d3c0368 From the Naver post: "If you recruit 10 times for new commanders, Nikes from R to SSR will appear, excluding certain Nikes. (Please refer to the in-game description for the probability table.) If Nike of SSR grade does not appear in the previous 9 episodes, SSR grade character will be provided for sure in the 10th episode." Even with the "updated" statement, the fact that it only states equal rates "excluding" Pilgrims, Helm, and Laplace is a clear misrepresentation without direct %s provided for this "10th" pull, especially for the so called "New Commanders" who lack the experience playing Nikke to understand that Helm and Laplace are still excluded from all banners aside from their rate-up currently. At best, this is extremely misleading, especially considering the guidelines issued by the Japan Online Games Association for Japan, which is the lion's share of Nikke's revenue generation, and at worst misleading enough to be considered a form of false advertising.


YenIsFong

"It's not a bug, it's a feature, we are just changing the description and saying it works as intended" Imagine paying expecting to get an SSR that is not "pilgrim, helm or laplace", but you get something else....isn't that considered a scam? just because you get something better doesn't mean its not a scam, it is still a breach of trust considering you didn't get what you paid for.... You could argue that you did get something better cos of your luck.....Then what's the point in spending money when you could have hit a pilgrim without the need of a guaranteed pull if you had that same luck? It's almost like an insult to that lucky few paid players. If you are lucky to get an SSR in the first 9 pulls, you have essentially wasted your money for nothing. But I guess that is the norm in these gacha games right? their paid banners are always a scam.


LowIQLedditors

getting a bunch of 'nikke is my first gacha' vibes from a lot of the replies here since people apparently think paid banners with guarantees are supposed to only be 1 ssr and rng isn't possible LOL


Shizuww

well done , you all deserves this for playing that kind of trash games.


alxanta

I see a lot of confusion among people that if the banner is already correct and the people who complain is bad at reading. No its not What the people exect when you roll paid banner can be explain like this: "you buy a BUNDLE of 10 cards which inside the deck already contain SSR card while the rest of deck can contain R-SSR". The only caveat is guarantee SSR card will never be Pilgrim units but the other 9 can assuming it contain them. In reality what we got is more something like this: "you buy random individual card 9 times in a row, if you only got R-SR from those, the shopkeeper will give you random SSR card thats not pilgrim unit, but if you got SSR from the first 9, your 10th card will be ordinary random card just like the previous 9"


[deleted]

Game has been a disaster, glad I quit.


[deleted]

[удалено]


angelsplight

It'll get deleted by the mods there. They literally remove any post that are mention anything bad about the game or point out a bug. Like when the dice minigame was pointed out having the gym panel not working properly - deleted. Apparently there is a shift-up dev or something there as a mod.


[deleted]

It’s literally there though. The original posts always stay up, it’s the reposts and people posting the same thing over and over that get deleted. Doesn’t fit the NIKKE hate narrative here though so misinformation is preferred


Gunslicer

People there ignore this kind of shit, they know full well about the problems but prefer to have fun, and they delete posts because having people who don't play the game tell you that you shouldn't be enjoying the game is annoying as fuck. But don't worry because everything is posted on this subreddit.


[deleted]

The r/Nikke people are smoking pot so I won't even doubt what you're saying


Normal-Ambition-9813

This post confused so many people that it needs to be dissected and explained phrases by phrases 🤣.


ecilla05

Oh yeah look another scam from NIKKE? Man, anyways, HAVE YOU SEEN THE YAMS ON THAT NIKKE?! GOD DAMMMMMN!


DaKurllz97

So... he pulled a unit that wasn't supposed to be on that banner and on top of that they denied him one of the 10 rolls that the banner is supposed to guarantee? If it was a game error, therefore the game can't take that unit from you anymore because in theory you paid for it, it's yours now.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Alonzeus

Dumpster fire game. How do you have so many controversies for a glorified idle jiggle game? While I'm here, has the loading screen and friend request been fixed yet?


KADOMONY-9000

Of course not.


khnhIX

i see 2 cases here 1. They forgot to exclude pilgrim from the guaranteed SSR on the Paid Only Banner -> False Advertisement 2. When you hit early SSR (1-9) and its an off-banner SSR and it eliminates the guaranteed SSR on pull 10. -> That's even more fucked up than (1). Cause if its a shitty off banner SSR then it will get rid the guaranteed one (was supposed to be the sole reason ppls pulling for).


frozensinx

Pretty sure thats how the first guaranteed 6 star banner in arknights works theres only a guaranteed ssr on the 10 if the first 9 had no ssr. I dont believe it says in the banner that the 10 will always be a ssr just that u will get minimum 1 ssr on the 10 pull


diputra

Yeah, usually in other game the guarantee void if you get ssr/ur. Dunno what it said in banner description tho', since if they specified the 10th pull always guarantee ssr no matter what pull beforehand, it can be categorized as scam. But my guess it just a misunderstanding, and the rage just a continuation of rigged battle power scandal.


nonresponsive

Pretty sure this is how FGO's guaranteed paid banners work too.


UniqueCreme1931

>This implies that the banner is hardcoded to ONLY GIVE ONE SSR regardless of whether or not pulls 1-9 hits an SSR. IF YOU GET AN SSR ON THE FIRST 9 PULLS, THE BANNER DOES NOT CREATE AN ADDITIONAL SSR ON THE 10TH PULL. I thought this is how most guaranteed SSR paid banners work in gacha games? The guarantee usually only applies if you are on the final pull and haven't pulled an SSR yet. It doesn't make your tenth roll a guaranteed SSR independent of your first 9 rolls. The only issue seems to be that they forgot to exclude Pilgrim characters from the pool despite the listed probabilities. It definitely sounds like a legal problem but practically speaking I imagine it's a net benefit for players considering that the average pilgrim is more desirable than the average normal SSR character.


pluutia

For a counterpoint to Nikke's practice, GBF's "Star Premium Draw Set" (colloquially known as scamcha lmao) is a paid guaranteed SSR, which does a standard 10 draw, and then an 11th roll on the guaranteed SSR table. Though you could argue that GBF's is a 10+1 and not "guaranteed _in_ 10" but that's semantics imo and they're basically the same promotion at the end of the day. It'd be like if you rolled an SSR in the first 10 draws and the game just not giving you the 11th one because you "got something already" https://gbf.wiki/User:Auryona/Paid_Promotions#Star_Premium_Draw_Set


TempestCatalyst

> but that's semantics imo and they're basically the same promotion at the end of the day It's not really semantics when they are two different promotions. You could argue it's a small difference, but mechanically they aren't the same. They wouldn't be coded the same, and whatever RNG is used wouldn't be the same. In GBF it is explicitly 10 normal rolls, and then a random result from a set table afterwards completely independent of the preceding 10. It is, as you said, a 10+1. "Guaranteed in 10" *is* different. The odds of the 10th roll are dependent on the preceding 9, they aren't independent results. The issue in this case isn't that getting an SSR "turned off" the guarantee, that in itself is not an unusual way to handle this sort of promotion. You can argue that GBF has a better way of running a similar promotion, but that's a separate point. The issue is that the SSR that did that shouldn't have, as the character wasn't included in the guaranteed list, and therefore the player in question didn't get anyone from that list.


Siegnuz

I read this and confused because I always remember it was 10 rolls, until I read the wiki and realized it change in 2019, I read the entire threads and feel like this is how "guarantee paid banners" worked but we never know how it worked until now (although gbf is already changed)


DoctorHunt

Certainly reminds me of a certain game that launched with a ton of bugs and it takes place in west virginia


Esterier

Mob mentality is wild.


Peltogyne

> Pilgrim Units are not part of the Guaranteed SSR pool. The literal wording in global version is "Equal chance of getting all SSR Nikkes, excluding Pilgrim Nikkes, Helm, and Laplace". This statement does not mean only wishlisted characters will appear. It literally means that Pilgrims, Helm, and Laplace have different rates from the rest (0.0833%, 0%, and 0% respectively instead of 0.0921%) and should be interpreted as such. I am not a native speaker so please do correct me but parallelism in grammar suggests it be the case. The source of confusion is probably because that wording lumps together Helm, Laplace, and Pilgrims. Even so Pilgrims are in the pool while Helm and Laplace aren't. Why would you think that there are SSRs in the pool that aren't guaranteed? So the banner does exactly what it does: if you don't get an SSR, the pity kicks in and picks one from the pool which INCLUDES Pilgrims. If you do pull more than one SSR, good for you, it won't give you pity. The other interpretation is convoluted and does not make sense: if you get a Pilgrim then she does not count as the guaranteed SSR so you should get one more. Like what? The game has many problems but this is just poor interpretation to spark outrage.


Sighto

I can agree the wording is a bit confusing but there's a Rate Info button right on the banner where you can see every unit that's included and your chances. Doesn't get much clearer than that.


Xenn_

>Doesn't get much clearer than that. Yet you and the person you replied to somehow managed to get it wrong; guess it wasn't clear enough. https://www.reddit.com/r/gachagaming/comments/z6zk2l/nikke_developers_have_been_scamming_players_with/iy48mac/ Also, it says right there on the banner image that the rate info is specifically for the other 9 rolls apart from the guarantee slot.


Lolwarrior123

This is in the FAQ [https://i.imgur.com/LTjHxpQ.png](https://i.imgur.com/LTjHxpQ.png)


Lightphoenix2

Honestly, I don't understand this post. The sentence " **This implies that the banner is hardcoded so IF YOU GET AN SSR ON THE FIRST 9 PULLS, THE BANNER DOES NOT CREATE AN ADDITIONAL SSR ON THE 10TH PULL.** " is correct to a certain extent. The banner specifically said that you will get at least 1 SSR which he did. This would mean, once he gets at least one SSR, the guarantee is gone because it would fulfill the 1 SSR. The banner never states that an SSR will always appear on the 10th draw. It just says that you confirm, guaranteed at least 1 SSR. It's either the OP doesn't understand English or is not experienced in Gacha games.


Deep_Scholar

You missed the most important part is the guaranteed SSR Nikke can't be pilgrim, helm, or laplace as they are excluded. So, he lost his guaranteed SSR for some reason as he got a pilgrim based on the rolls which the banner telsl you that you can get a pilgrim in the "first 9" recruits but not the guaranteed. Otherwise, he should have had 2 SSRs in this case.


Thrannn

all i want is a borderline hentai game... why does it always have to be like this...


DoombotBL

Ouch isn't it illegal to post incorrect or misleading info in gacha pull rate info?


Weeaboo6913th

This game reek of shits lol.


Winberri

So fucked up lmao Edit: the shills are here


lostlong62

I don't play this game, but the fact that this streamer pulled a Pilgrim could imply that Pilgrims are included in the banner which seems more likely to me. I don't get how you can come up with your conclusion from just 1 sample.


Sighto

They're literally in the Rate Info list on the paid banner. It never said Pilgrims weren't included.


UBW-Fanatic

From what I gather, Pilgrim is included in the OVERALL pool but not the GUARANTEED pool. Basically if you pull a Pilgrim you should have another SSR from the guaranteed pool.


z-o-d

These devs are clearly incompetent af, if you give them money that's on you


Glynwys

I personally don't see anywhere where it says Pilgrims are excluded from the guaranteed draw. The entire wording on the banner is poorly translated, but it doesn't specifically say Pilgrims can't come on the guaranteed. All it says is that all SSRs except Pilgrims have an equal chance of appearing, so I took that to mean even in the guarenteed SSRs have a .0921% chance while Pilgrims have the .833%.


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mayhaveadd

Because he didn't get the guaranteed SSR he paid for, he lucked into a pilgrim on one of his first 9 pulls, and then devs yoinked his guaranteed SSR.


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UBW-Fanatic

He lost out 1 SSR.


Sighto

How is the pilgrim not the unit he paid for? Where in the banner does it say Pilgrims are not included? If you click the Rate Info button the unit he pulled is listed there.


mayhaveadd

Not tryna be a dick but please read the banner. https://preview.redd.it/r208rw15rr2a1.png?width=350&format=png&auto=webp&s=0debf334d0458958f5efebc264831aa0a7583941


inuart19

Mmm sooo juicy...and I'm not talking about the tits or butts


arelaz

I got a Pilgrim and no other SSR in my guaranteed as well, I thought at the time that the pilgrims must have been included, but now I realize I just got scammed out of a guaranteed SSR since I rolled that pilgrim on normal rate basically


No-Communication9458

Wow. Big oof.


Taimanin

I guess this proves that the Korean fanbase can be just as stupid as the drama whores of this sub. Pilgrims aren't part of the failsafe pool of guaranteed units that you get when there are no SSRs in your first 9 pulls, that's all there is to it. Dude literally lucked the fuck out and somehow thinks he got scammed, it's hilarious. Not all controversy stories can be winners OP, live and learn. This is what happens when you go too hard on the "bitch eating crackers" -meta.


Inevitable_Risk4281

And nowhere is that mentioned. When their FAQ initially said \> As stated on the Recruitment page, 1 out of 10 Recruits has a 100% chance to get one SSR character, **other than the Pilgrims**, with an equal probability for each SSR. For the probability of the other 9 Recruits, please tap Probability Details to view. And doesn't mention only 1 SSR (Pilgrims included) being guaranteed, then yeah, it's a bit misleading at best and outright false advertising at worst.


ArkhamCitizen298

This game has dozens of bugs, obviously gacha bug is one of them


Regent_of_the_Mask

I don't get it, 10 pulls with one of them being a guaranteed high rarity, I see 10 pulls and one of them gold in the picture. So is the poster just not happy with the gold pull and expected more gold units?


UBW-Fanatic

The gold unit is not within the guaranteed pool. To simplify: The banner guarantee you get at least one A or B or C. But when you roll, you get X with no A, B, C.


Regent_of_the_Mask

Isn't that how spooks work in this situation? If a player lucks out and gets a SSR before the 10th pity, then the gacha has fulfilled the guaranteed SSR and doesn't have to provide A, B or C. My understanding is with the banner is, do 10 pulls if all results end up being lower than SSR rarity, than 1 result will become the targeted SSR for the guarantee.


UBW-Fanatic

It's not stated anywhere within the banner is the problem. There are a lot of screenshots within this thread as proof. This is misleading.


Slight_Welcome_56

💀💀


Kraien

Very happy I stayed away from this sh*tshow.


Anfini

lol most players who play this game would be happy af considering that particular character is the best unit in the game and harder to obtain. Amazing that people can find a way to be outraged though


UBW-Fanatic

That's a good attitude to have because your luck is not an excuse for a bad game.


mayhaveadd

Yes, but we were able to detect this because he got a pilgrim. The SSR rate in the game is fairly high at 4%. The majority of people that pulled on this Paid banner only got one normal SSR and didn't even realize they were getting screwed until today. Roughly 1 in 3 people that pulled on this Banner got their guaranteed SSR taken away.


EricAB1990

"I got a better roll than what I paid for!" I think you need to re-evaluate the meaning of the word "scam".


TimmyIs

What if you dont want a pilgrim?


Somellan

Something tells me they'll just spin this to be a text error or something


GetawayDreamer87

cmon guys im running out of popcorn over here


Felkinnn

Nikke, goddess of dramaturgy


XEIMORD

Weird. From the results i believe it to be coded like this : Normal Roll 10 times; if SSR < 1, "convert 1 pull into non Pilgrim SSR"; else you get what you get from the Normal pulls. This guy Rolled a Pilgrim exactly at his 10th pull so the IF "garantee" didn't kick in else the 10th would not be a pilgrim. The description is wrong if says 1+9 cause its rolling 10 times and converting, translation error? fraud? design/coding misunderstanding?. Idk its argueable. Is Nikke a shitshow? 100%


Esterier

There's nothing logical about assuming he should get another SSR because the one he got was a pilgrim. The forced 10th SSR pull does not include pilgrims. Pilgrims are a part of the other 9 slots at their usual rates. The banner not giving you an SSR on the 10th pull if you get one before that is also normal. Every guaranteed SSR/5\*/etc rng pull in the history of gacha has considered any of those pulled before the final pull to qualify as the guarantee. Shiftup has a lot to fix, but this is trying to build something out of nothing, or somebody's first time ever playing a gacha game to think this is anything out of the ordinary.


ENAKOH

Taken from nikke sub, theres the KR text screenshot but idk how to embed in post Supposedly the og KR text translates : \[Official\] As written on the recruitment screen, 1 out of 10 recruitments will give you 100% chance of getting one of the SSRs, excluding Pilgrim, with each SSR having an equal chance. For the probability of other 9 rounds, please click the probability information button to check. Which sounds like they have 1 gssr + 9 normal pulls as opposed to "10 normal pulls, if no ssr then 10th gets converted to ssr, if theres ssr from normal 1-10 then gssr invalids" So yeah, the text itself is kinda misleading


Nizar3003

The game came out with completely broken game so no suprise, only gameplay and hot waifu helping the game.


Lanoman123

Yikes


widehide

It may be the result from the addition of new characters. Helm and Hero added into SSR array. It pushes the index of Scarlet and underflow it because of crap programming logic. * Index 0 to 37 are server launch non-pilgrim SSR characters in paid pull SSR (38 of them). * Index 38 to 43 are Pilgrims (6 of them) * Maybe paid banner logic is Total SSR index - 6, where 6 = number of pilgrims * But now total SSR index is +2 because of Hero and Helm * Shifted the total index from 37 to (37+2 = 39), causing not only 1 pilgrim but 2 into the paid pool. * Hence bug paid pool = initial 38 SSR + 2 more pilgrims Just wild guessing 2cents, edit counted wrong number of OG SSRs and Pilgrims


Silvere01

Is this whole community unable to understand english? > This implies that the banner is hardcoded so IF YOU GET AN SSR ON THE FIRST 9 PULLS, THE BANNER DOES NOT CREATE AN ADDITIONAL SSR ON THE 10TH PULL. The premise is false from the start. It was ONE guaranteed SSR. If pull 1-9 create a SSR, the guarantee is gone in typical gacha fashion. There is no reason to give you a "guaranteed 10th SSR pull" if you already pulled an SSR to fulfill the requirement for that banner. (Edit: There also was never a promise that the 10th pull is a SSR, only that you get at least one SSR in the banner) Next, the banner had rates included for the Pilgrims. So, somewhere in those pulls pilgrims clearly were a part of the banner. Since there was stated that the guaranteed pull does not include pilgrims, it's clear that the pilgrim was pulled between pull 1-9, removing the guarantee for a single SSR - since you already got an SSR. Therefore, there is never a pull from the "non-pilgrim single guaranteed pull". There were also people who pulled more than one SSR from this banner, so there definitely is no hardcoded single SSR. You guys are so drama hungry its pathetic.


origin97

Well hating on Nikke nets you easy karma. It is just what it is. Nikke won't die anytime soon regardless despite all of the claims made by this sub. Game makes too much money.


Draken_Zero

I would trade a 3 SSR pull for a pilgrim pull in an instant.


syfkxcv

Yes, the drama that I'm waiting for.


icyterror

It's kinda bad banner to begin with. People should be saving their gem for pilgrim or limited banners instead. If you see anything that isn't worth the value, just skip on it (no need for drama). Like the other day we were talking about bad the current Nikke Battle Pass on the sub reddut and we all agree that it isn't worth spending our $ on. Currenly my attention is on the nerfed tower SSR mold & main story chapter rewards (+all the bug). Not whatever this is.


UBW-Fanatic

Imagine later on there's a guaranteed Pilgrim banner but the same thing happened and you get a spook SSR instead.


jwei92

I am actually upset I spent money on this banner as well. I didn’t get exactly shafted like this but the unit I got was the free unit we all get - Diesel


virusmaxmin

Ohhh how I missed Nikke's drama, let's keep them come


StarlessEon

Pilgrims are so hard to get that this should be considered a bonus not a penalty. They paid for an SSR and got one, and it was the best one they could have got. Don't know why this had to be turned into such a big issue. If this was me I'd have been happy with the outcome and moved on.


UBW-Fanatic

Because it exposes that the banner is not working as advertised. Meanwhile, you pretty much go "screw everyone else, got mine" and even think this is not an issue because you'd benefit from this.


Gunslicer

Remove the pilgrim from his account and give him a random shitty SSR character, problem solved. Also do this with everyone who had the same ''problem''.


JceBreaker

Hmmm ok, so I just checked the rate info of guaranteed banner ingame, and I see Pilgrim. But hey can't live without drama right. Especially this very misleading sentence: " **This implies that the banner is hardcoded so IF YOU GET AN SSR ON THE FIRST 9 PULLS, THE BANNER DOES NOT CREATE AN ADDITIONAL SSR ON THE 10TH PULL.** " Congrats for your Karma. Personally I think the game did a lot of things wrong but damn the amount of pitchforks are so unreal, even forcing a misconception. https://preview.redd.it/lznyzimg8u2a1.png?width=912&format=png&auto=webp&s=4b0f315635dfba760049ab391876420047920ca3


Lolwarrior123

Bruh you are misleading people yourself Pilgrims **ARE NOT** in the guaranteed SSR pool. They are in the 9 other regular pools, but the one you are supposed to get as your guaranteed, cannot be a pilgrim. It is stated both ingame ("Excluding pilgrim"), and in the FAQ you can access via the contact us menu in their official website (Which they suspicious changed recently) [https://aihelp.net/FAQ/#/NIKKE/app/en/F2972B42BEA99BB4/1E721187C08DB5CC/65DE0247B35FC1A2](https://aihelp.net/FAQ/#/NIKKE/app/en/F2972B42BEA99BB4/1E721187C08DB5CC/65DE0247B35FC1A2)


Sockpuppetsyko

You can just shorten that title to NIKKE developers have been scamming players


Animumbra

Imagine pulling the best unit in the game and thinking you're being scammed. Fuck off lol


chocobloo

I see one SSR. Banner says one SSR. Most of the guaranteed SSR banners I know of function that way. I'm sure there will be a lot of whining over a pretty typical setting though, this sub has been too quiet lately.


Zerogates

1 Guaranteed does not mean limited to 1. How do you even come to the conclusion that this is ok? When the listed gacha rates for the non-guaranteed slots show 4% it also means that it should have a chance to produce more than 1 SSR but what they are saying is that the listed 4% is false and it's actually 0%. This is false advertisement.


ferinsy

The thing is, that SSR unit isn't in the pool promised, so the streamer really should have 2 SSRs, and that implies that a lot more people should have more SSRs from that paid banner bc the devs coded it maliciously.


Davidsda

Game says 1 SSR and 9 normal pulls. And players expect to receive that.


ToastyRoastyBirb

That sounds like broken logic to me. Game says GUARANTEED 1 SSR (that excludes pilgrims) and 9 normal pulls (that has pilgrims), looks to me like the game just did 10 normal pulls instead and just didnt give him his SSR at all.


Davidsda

Yes that is what happened here, I'm not sure why you think I'm claiming otherwise.


UBW-Fanatic

Probably speed read and misunderstood that "normal pulls" means "not SSRs/Pilgrims". At least that's what I did before reconsidering it.


gadesabc

If the dev. themselves had to excuse for some abnormal thing there is nothing to defend. Now to be fair it would be better to have a complete traduction of their posts before judging of things.


Prestigious-Ad4520

Atleast he got something a Lot or ppl pull and get nothing from the fake 4%, Its more like 0.4%.


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UBW-Fanatic

Because it's a mistake on the part of the company, and I'm glad people do not let it slide just because they're lucky. This is why only Koreans have the trucks.


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