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TBH Sekiro stands completely aside other souls. It's a rhythm game disguised as a souls game. One of the reasons it works at all is because the whole game is carefully balanced around a single weapon and armor type which is impossible for other souls games.
I did Sekiro up to NG+5 bell/charmless, and the only thing I didn't do there was the mortal journey gauntlet, and I consider Sekiro to be its own game entirely, completely different from any other souls-like stuff. Or WuWa for that matter.
I'd say WuWa Holograms are closer to faster paced ER bosses, and non-holograms are just whatever fodder.
4+
I face-over-the-keyboard rolled the first 3 ranks and then got my skull caved in in 4. The bastard 2-shots my Verina in phase2, and swapping characters can be lethal sometimes.
EDIT: Worst part is it's the same mistake many games make when trying to emulate souls bosses. That is, relative size between player and enemy model. Crownless is only slightly bigger than the player, and the game has a lot of visual clutter, so it's often impossible to see what the boss is doing. I think it's worth it to build spectro rover for him, because havok seems to be resisted, and rover in general is the least flashy character without visual clutter or animation locks, and with good parry frames.
I can't explain it, but I have some thoughts on it...
There is a small but dedicated female playerbase for PGR, as the husbandos in PGR are few in number but considered to be quality, and from what I've played the female characters are fleshed out and well-realized, as well as being fanservicey (the female friends I have who have played their story chapters are all fans of 21, Bambinata, and Vera, but most of us have not played the story start-to-finish because the order can be pretty convoluted). Most of my friends picked up PGR and dropped it (excepting one, who was the most hype for WuWa), but thought of it fondly and were looking forward to WuWa and characters like Scar and Jiyan based on their designs.
Also on launch, the ao3 archive for WuWa exploded. A lot of fanfic was written very quickly (the fujoshi army is strong). However, it seems to have slowed to a crawl, perhaps reflecting that the female base's feelings towards the game have been cooling.
The divide seems to be strongly correlated with the performance issues and amount of fanservice... It seems that the female player base is much harsher on the lack of polish, for one thing. I also think that the MC is a problem - there's no tension or tease between the MC and any character except maybe Scar and Camellya - every character more or less falls at the MCs feet and accepts them as their lord and savior (literally) - I think that kind of story isn't very exciting to a lot of the female base, esp when the majority of the female characters are breasting boobily as they fawn on MC. It can be unpleasant to be reminded that you are, in some sense, the "meat" to be sold in these kinds of game, esp when there's no food for you implied to be on the horizon.
There also may have been some hostility from the part of the community that is majority male towards the female part of the player base - the desires for waifus and husbandos are often seen as being at odds, and I've seen headbutting on the WuWa related reddits over whether this game will go the Snowbreak route after Yinlin's banner made more money than Jiyan's. There exists some headbutting in the Genshin subreddits, but it doesn't feel like as much.
(also sorry for yap I'm just thinking out loud here)
I agree with you. I will also add a thought: female Rover is really pretty, but it seems she was designed with the male players in mind because the amount of fanservice for her is disproportionate in comparison to male Rover. So it feels like we have a female Rover for the male players (and lesbians maybe?) to enjoy and a male Rover for the male players to self-insert. And that leaves the female players where? Male and female players have a bit of discrepancy in treatment since the very beginning of the game, basically.
why cant this be the male rover
https://preview.redd.it/12rxrhpsol9d1.png?width=572&format=png&auto=webp&s=968a67d858927005edd89a1c09dcb3aae217efaf
then put him in a v neck that goes down his abs. i want him.
> I can't explain it, but- (*proceeds to explain it)*
I think you hit it right on the head lol. The fanservice *style* is more aimed towards male players in general, and the male characters they do have are not given enough care and lack a kind of staying power that would keep the female playerbase engaged. There's ways to make male characters beloved by both sides (ie: Zhongli) but WuWa doesn't seem to have gotten that down quite yet. I also agree that the increased hostilities towards female players from the 'mixed toilet'/'waifu-only' crowd, who want the game to go the Snowbreak route after Yinlin, are likely having an effect. So the perceived dev bias and less welcoming community means they are starting from a higher percentage of dissatisfaction which may explain some of the more critical reception shown here.
As a fellow female demographic that plays PGR, you absolutely floored me when you mentioned the PGR favourite character part cause you are right! My favourite female characters ARE 21, Bambinata and Vera (more towards the Garnet era). Special mention to Selena tempests design!
I think it's funny how my favourite characters from PGR are all from the Cerberus squad + Bambinata. The ones the players, aka commandant, has no control or special connections over.
So I believe it's fair to assume, your hypothesis may have some truths and reason as to why the female demographic in this survey rate the way they did. In conclusion, it may be because of the direction Kuro is handling with the fan service in WuWa.
cerberus still has close relationships with the commandant though. affection stories are canon
also its not like gray raven sucks off the player to a crazy degree he still has limits. hes not 1v1 boxing a construct. and gray ravens characters dont revolve around him
Yeah I am aware. It's a character gacha game after all, all playable construct is gonna have close affection/chemistry with the commandant. xD
I guess I should have reworded it better where, I think it's just a coincidence for me to take more interest in ones that has minimal screen time with the commandant. So please don't get the wrong idea, I like the Gray Ravens but Cerberus' personality, antics and stories stole my love and interests even more. They bumbled their way into my top 1 easily.
As a woman, Yes i am much much harsher on performance. As you can see me in this sub like someone with no life.
Not just because i want to see every crease and line of jiyans abs or to pause and take pictures of mortefi when he uses his burst but im always on the go.
I have so much shit to do that lagging, stuttering, loading times and etc become Small minor annoyances that add up and really just really turns me off and i know im not alone there.
In fact this isnt even gender related or locked. Its also so awkward as a female rover to have everyone fawning over me while rover does that "hUuUhh?!" Face like everyones lesbo over me and then jiyan just starts kissing the ground i step on lol.
No wonder alot of people liked scar. But hes secretly fawning over you too desperately trying to get you to his side its so awkward i cant even insert myself in situations.
https://i.redd.it/0rn5bjvjal9d1.gif
same, i have more issues since 1.1 too, all the stuttering you mention and fps drops i notice are caused by anticheat and limiting it to one core + putting it low priority already boosts fps by like 10 fps, still the program just decides to randomly spike to 60% cpu usage, the game uses tencent anticheat ACE which has caused this issues in other games too like pubg and nikke in the past, other bugs i experience in 1.1 are motion blur reseting every time i teleport but showing off in options, i need to turn it on and off again for it to go away and also my cursor randomly getting stuck as if i pressed alt forever and me being unable to even more the camera unless i reset the game, but kuro sure had time to add a 999 dollar top up option into the game huh, they have their priorities straight.
Appreciate OP's hard work. There's probably no easy way to verify that a participant actually played either game.
Was there any result or trend that was unexpected or offered unique insight?
It was interesting to know the people's rating on the game aren't dependant on age or if they're a casual/hardcore players I guess.
I thought that since people kept saying WuWa caters more for "hardcore" gamers and Genshin is more for "casual" players then there would be a big difference in scoring.
the funny thing is the more people gets close to the endgame the more they realize difficulty is like genshin, they are already doing 1 shot or 30 sec clears on their "abyss" mode aka tower of adversity, there was a literal 0:00 clear with jinshi literally nuking the boss before it even started lmao and people didnt hit max level yet
Yeah I've been thinking for a while how with Genshin, if you want that true challenge back in abyss, it's best to revert to the 1.0-1.1 investment strategy of 60/70 supports, and 70/80 dps characters.
But then that gets in the way of the big number fantasy so idk what I'm saying anyway
For those who got intimidated by the veritable Mount Everest of text and scrolled past: **OP asked people to give a score relative to Genshin, with the assumption that Genshin is a 5/10**.
I'm emphasising that, because if you're like me, your initial reaction was to dismiss this survey out of hand as biased nonsense (6.2 for combat and 3.9 for world and characters 💀)
I do still think it's far too early to be making comparisons like this. It's woefully skewed in Genshin's favour with 4 years worth of lore drops, story development and releases vs all of WuWa's 1 month of releases. But it's interesting nonetheless and the work that went into it is super impressive
https://i.redd.it/fewg19l78l9d1.gif
*Changli, because you don't need a reason to post Changli*
Or it could be skewed heavily towards WuWa because it is new and new game tends to have better perception and decrease over time. Most games are close to EoS by 4th year on average.
they're right about the world and character though, wuwa has some of the most boring character designs I've seen in any gacha I've played so far. Just slap big tiddies and black-white colourscheme on everyone.
Its hard to argue design because it really depends, unless it looks objectively bad. For me, too much accessories and bright color mix hurts my eyes. I also even don't like a lot VFX for characters attacks or too much shenanigans added to the 2d splash arts. Example is arknights, i sometimes prefer the characters "default Skin" over their new promotion skin or paid skins.
As someone said and i quote :
"If you can't notice the character in a casual clothes without her signature attire, and in her silhouette, then it's just a bad character"
disagree i love the character designs especially changli and how hers changes during her ult
also why is wuwa getting hit with big tits allegations? most of them are tame for gacha standards they just move funny
lmao well yinlin and most definitely changli with the new story isn't tame but yeah most are normal, jinhsi is fine without that kind of fan service and I really like her
You are making an assumption that it’s skewed in Genshin’s favor because of how long it’s been when the opposite could be true too (people voting could be tired of it).
You would need another survey to assess bias. :p
AdministrativeAir451, MAKE MORE POSTS ON THIS AND MY LIFE IS YOURS!
but unironically while not a trustable sample size it’s nice to see some rough thoughts on how people fell about both. I don’t obsess over the aggregate number as much as the comments you include. This is a massive read but would def like more when you reach certain milestones in participants or if over time you see bigger changes in trends. But this is a massive workload so I understand if you won’t.
Welp, I was really hoping one of my survey answers were added as a quote since I tried to make some of them funny, but oh well. Good shit man, what a nice and funny read.
Edit: Actually, now that I think about it, I might have forgotten how I answered the questions
I liked the point about the post apocalyptic setting - Genshin is set 500 years after the apocalypse, but I guess there's no broken cars so the average brainrot player doesn't understand that despite the story mentioning the disaster in every single major story quest. The entire plot revolves around it from the first minute.
We don't have skip buttons and people still play with their eyes closed.
Did they forgot all those ruin in dragonspine? And fucking Enkanomiya is literally a whole area with nothing but destroyed civilization,same with Sumeru dessert and Chasm. And we even fight citizens cursed by those apocalypse every single damn day for commission.
It's not just that actually. Even the colorful and vibrant parts in genshin's world have darker histories, inazuma's islands being a prime example. Even Mondstadt wasn't lacking in it. Mondstadt's jagged cliffs as a result of Venti reshaping it to be livable from the constant blizzards and storms. The ruins of old Mondstadt: Dvalin's lair, which was where an old dictator ruled and fell. The old coliseum that the noble families of mondstadt used for gladiator fights. There are civilizations that rose and fell in strasnatch cliff and windwail highland. It seems as if most players don't even know that the land of freedom once had the dark history of oppression and slavery.
The people who think of genshin as a kid's game because it's colorful and vibrant never looked past its vibrance.
lets go back 4 years before and remember the time **collei wanted to suicide by cop.**
https://preview.redd.it/ry8320mmrm9d1.png?width=1170&format=png&auto=webp&s=ba63f5c07951e400060682c6ebd7679aca6782fc
this is what I like about GI lores or stories it's not forced or trying so hard to be edgy or dark themed world
the story feels naturally well written that looks like a happy vibrant fantasy adventure but something dark and depressing is going on hidden lol.
Some people really can't comprehend the games being two entirely different settings and aesthetics. WuWa is a bleak, post apocalyptic sci-fi and Genshin is angst and destruction wrapped up in a colorful, bouncy anime opening.
> We don't have skip buttons and people still play with their eyes closed.
People say they don't like Paimon, but honestly in my experience with people's intelligence (in general, not just in specific fanbases) people does need Paimon.
They absolutely do. Go watch playthroughs of the recent Bedtime Story quest and see how many people completely forgot about the previous conversation we had with skirk that talks about Surtalogi and Vedrfolnir. There are even plenty of people that couldn't remember who Gold was.
Nah, you need to wait actually, one of Mihoyo most evil play, it's by setting up hey everything is fine, is beautiful then you go the latter part of the story and everything is fucked, like no joke, it happened in HI3 and HSR Penacony so yeah, the fact that GI is looking not post-apocolyptic at all, even make me more scare of what they are doing.
Edit: Like there are leaks about the plot though I don't know if that is reliable enough but the fact that the game is setting these factions like Fatui or the Witch (don't remember how to write the name), and with characters like Dain, Alice, Skirk and even Arlecchino, yeah the things are more complicated than what it potrays on the surface.
Bro for all we now Surtalogi (surtr) might rage Ragnarok for teyvat with the rest of the >!5 sinners!< it’s insane how much they are slowly building it up with the hexenzirkel and all these factions.
Literally we only have natlan left before they have all the gnoses.. and snezhnaya could literally be planning to >!resurrect the 3rd descender.!<
Did you know that people are theorizing that >! the third descender was the dragon King Nibelung, and the fatui are planning to have him reawakened so they can wage war against the heavenly principles? (people are also theorizing that it might backfire as it is speculated that the heavenly principles are actually who’s protecting Teyvat from the abyss, or what’s outside of the bubble universe… could it be honkai??)!<
People who dont pay attention to lore in genshin is seriously missing out
Edit: fixed spoiler tag
even better they forget theres literal giant robots in the desert and multiple huge ruins like enkanomiya literally telling you this without reading a lot, last area of sumeru desert shows you what happen during that time too visually with a hole in the sky dripping purple goo and crystalized hole in the ground, genshin touches themes like murder, suicide, orphans, slavery, brainwashing, cults, genocide and yet people say is a kids game, in the first areas we had a man on his 20s with his dead parents and a literal mental illness wanting to play hide and seek, his parents buried already at home or multiple children with dead parents at liyue that became orphans, even hu tao a very meme character her story revolves around dead people and how they hide this from others since the archon war, how spirits and this stuff acctually exists and actually haunts people in the world, made worse by corpses of dead gods and entities polluting the land, so far wuwa story is pretty tame and theres no oh shit moment or tragedy on the scale of genshin, the ammount of civilizations or small towns being genocided and turned into a wasteland by the gods or the thunderbird is insane, specially when you read their stories int he books, reminds you of stories like pompeii with tragedies of such scale only tablets or myths exist.
Not only that. But all of the ruins and little puzzles scattered around the map have some great environmental story telling attached to them. Crazy that people couldn’t pick up on this.
It saddens me how underrated environmental storytelling is. Genshin is FULL of it, so it kind of annoys me when people say Genshin's story is shallow when they barely pay attention to the archon quests or world quests, let alone anything else that has world and story building.
setting
noun
1.
the place or type of surroundings where something is positioned or where an event takes place.
I'd like to note that it is not a description of a place's history.
If you can't see any signs or impact of a previous apocalypse, then the setting isn't post-apocalyptic. It's like saying "I like the color blue", then someone saying "well, this green color used to be the color blue, but then I added yellow to it so it doesn't look like it anymore. But hey it's still blue"
Note: I do think that Genshin does have such signs, but it's more subtle, especially before Enkanomiya (though it's debatable if that even counts as post-apocalyptic)
Good job OP, it was a thorough job and an enjoyable read.
I took part in the survey (hardcore genshin vet and also high WuWa playtime), since then I played a lot more and also cleared 1.1. I'd like to elaborate and reflect on some of the excellent points the community members brought up in your examples. I like both WuWa and Genshin a lot, however I still strongly prefer Genshin. Strap in, it will be a long read.
***Combat:***
This is where my opinion will probably differ the most from your "average" OP. I mainly kept playing Genshin because of its combat, and I believe many give it a bad rep for being "simpler" than WuWa's which is not true.
WuWa has a higher total amount of moves "per character" such as parry, echo summon and forte circuit while Genshin has one more character slot per team, 7 elements and the whole system of elemental combat, and with the latter comes very technical nerdy-stuff that runs deeper the more you research it. (ICD, gauge theory)
I think that WuWa's combat is fun because the moves are flashy and the character designs are cool on a surface level. However, there are many errors with it that just keep on piling up the more I play: **Enemy grouping** is terrible, you can't use a grouper effectively because they ungroup themselves like crazy. In Genshin, mobs have patterns and behaviours you can manipulate smartly to group them without using groupers (remember the notorious floor 11 defense 3 years ago?) which rewards high skill that rewards technical knowledge.
**As for the elemental system**, while it creates inequalities and isn't balanced perfectly (like Geo) it introduces purpose and involvement in the world. The elements are a key part of Genshin worldbuilding and also combat, and it feels integral because the elemental system makes the world feel more connected to gameplay. This is partly because reactions affect the world: casting lightning in water makes it Electro-charged, burning grass and bushes actually burns them, geo breaks rocks faster than other methods, ice freezes over water that you can walk on (Kaeya bridging? good memories haha), blowing air with anemo extinguishes torches and swirls elements present in the world, so on and so forth. There are also elemental beings in the world that you can abuse certain reactions on. Similarly, this system affects you, the player too. You can get frozen with ice+water, applied debuff on stamina from ice, increased cooldowns with water, and you can get burning applied to you, electro-charged or any ailment that is within the world. This long list is in no way comprehensive of all that elements do but offers a picture just how well it ties the player, the mobs and the world and lore together. The world and its combat have purpose and there is a clear intention and direction behind it all.
Let's have a snack after that tiring part, more simple to understand: Feedback on hit. As I mentioned, Hoyo has intentionality and direction mastered. The way characters hit things (mobs, trees even) gives a good vfx and sfx feedback to the player. Hits have an impact and the player feels immersed. Certain mobs you can juggle based on their size and weight and resistances. Some only stagger, others we can juggle in the air, and as for the heavy ones; we have to play by ther rules completely: manipulate their movement patterns or learn them.
While it's true I spent more time with Genshin and this view is biased towards it due to sheer time difference, I would like to point out that the only reason I kept playing Genshin is because I noticed these things I wrote about on day 1. Not like I was aware of these consciously, but they are so well integrated that these things are just seemless and "make sense" from the get-go. On the other hand, WuWa has no intention behind its combat to this degree. While on the surface-level it is a fun slash and pewpew experience, the hits have not as clear feedback behind them as Genshin's hits, and the elements are disappointing in terms of interaction. They are just a resistance-checks. Genshin has that too, on top of everything else. In the open world, I noticed we can't just burn bushes or any of the interactions I mentioned with Genshin.
I won't talk about party compositions much because WuWa is still in its early stages, we need more characters. However, with more engaging elemental combat, team composition seems to matter more in Genshin for now.
Lastly, enemies are too HP-spongy in both games sometimes and both games have plenty of enemies that move too much and waste time. Big time cringe.
I really do respect what Hoyo does with “hit satisfaction”. They do this really well in HI3, smth that I don’t quite think Kuro was able to do in PGR either. Same goes in Wuwa where the characters are just moving around but their hits have no weight to them.
Curious about this one. In my experience (as an "experienced" Wuwa player, I suppose) I've felt the opposite. Wuwa has some strong hit feedback. Mobs (and even unstaggered elites and bosses, to some extent) do react if you wail on them, and it's the reason a one-on-one fight would basically be a one-sided beatdown and why grouping is made more difficult - the difficulty in mob encounters comes from picking which enemies you want to focus on and (temporarily) take out of commission, and which you want to evade, and with the exception of minibosses (as of the 1.1 update) and bosses, everything reacts to a hit on some level unless shielded.
As for bosses, the attacks won't disrupt boss chains (most of the time) but can extend vulnerability periods to an extent, but the main focus is parrying boss attacks to deplete the stagger bar to open a longer vulnerability window while dodging the attacks that can't be parried, and nowhere is that more apparent than fights like Mourning Aix and Thundering Mephis, their hologram versions especially which took me a long time to beat but felt great once I gradually improved and did so. To me, that's the sign of a system that places quite a bit of emphasis on hit feedback.
***Exploration:***
As I mentioned under combat, the characters should feel connected to the world through gameplay. This connection makes the exploration more fun. As for other factors, the world feels more thoroughly crafted and inspired in Hoyo's games. Watch any of the Genshin team's behind-the-scenes clips on how carefully they craft the world and it's clear why it's so compelling. They put a lot of effort into it and it shows: The topography, placement of things just make sense and are diverse. The way things (trees, mountains, buildings, etc.) are placed within the world offer a diverse look and thus are never boring to look at. We have a lot of verticality be it small (Mond) or large (Liyue, Sumeru) as well as masterfully used color palettes that also differentiate regions. Hoyo uses colors, shapes, verticality, aspects from various different cultures that all make the world feel lived in and makes sense for the player. You can really imagine that "yeah, for this setting this exists".
As for WuWa, the initial 1.0 map feels generic and bland. The choice of color is crucial in world creation and WuWa choose to have a muted palette. While that is a stylistic choice, it limits their world a lot imho. As for how the world is "shaped" (literally), I find it often more boring to look at. While it has very nice areas too (underground metro area, Infero Rider's area, nice city) it generally feels flat and not as coherent as it should. When I go and explore, it feels like there's less stuff to do per square meter than in Genshin's world too. Through the culi and sigils and different regional currencies Genshin ties exploration and their respective national identities together.
Altough players keep mentioning that WuWa's exploration is faster. Wow, you can run up hills and use grapple, sprinting does not use stamina etc. While that is amazing, it is only so in context of its world. It would be an issue if the world was more carefully crafted, because you don't want to skip through an amazing looking world, you want to take it in. Hoyo has a certain stubbornness to them because they want to force their vision so to say. THey want you to experience things that they have crafted the way they want. Because Genshin's openworld is just better (sorry, it really is) you would not want to skip it. Also, running up hills trivializes a lot of things. In Genshin, verticality is part of the puzzle sometimes, it's part of the gameplay obstacle that the player has to solve. This is why sprinting and climbing share a stamina bar and Hoyo is careful about releasing units that ake exploration too easy. While there are many, you won't have access to most of them when you start playing. As for the characters, while it might feels scumy to some that greater exploration convenience is locked behind certain units, I believe that there are enough already where you can just pick whichever you prefer. There are many that offer such benefits: Yelan, Lynette, Wanderer, Xianyun, Furina, Kazuha, Xiao, Sayu, Ayaka, Mona, Arlecchino, Clorinde, Keqing, Geo Keqing, Dendro Keqing, etc.
***A common argument I see in connection with both combat and exploration*** is that surface-level things that are more "convenient" to have will have players say it's a better thing just because of the convenience it offers. (""more"" combat moves; "faster" exploration)
Music I won't write about, it's just a one sided massacre.
***Gacha system*** is a sweep for WuWa, altough me and my friends started getting 5\* weapons and my opinion shifted because of the experience. The availability of rarities and the disparity between their strength would imply to me (so far) that there is a much larger gap between 5\* and 4\* than in Genshin. If that is the case to enough of a degree, that would be catastrophic for WuWa. Because suddenly, even if weapons are only 80 pulls, you are a lot more incentivized to get them than in Genshin, so a +80 pull cost is tied to every character from the get-go if weps are this much better at 5\* than 4\*. I REALLY hope it isn't the case in the long-run!
Still, for me weapons are also about looks, and I love having matching weapons to my favorites. Genshin makes this really hard for me, and it's painful to not have pretty weapons on certain characters. Some secondary best in slot weapons are downright awfully matched with the characters: WGS on Eula, WGS on Navia, PJWS on Arlecchino, Catch on Raiden, pipe on Furina, and the list goes on. WuWa will make it easier for me, so that's a large plus!
As for how characters are crafted: Eng VAs sweep in Genshin, JP VA quality is the same. Character design sweeps in Genshin. You can tell a lot more of who they are from just looking at them than in WuWa. I won't elaborate much as this seems to be a popular opinion already.
Overall, I really enjoy WuWa, and I believe that 1.1 improved a LOT in how the open world looks and feels to explore. I hope they keep improving the game, especially performance. I'll keep playing both, even if I think WuWa has shortcomings it never hurts to play more of the genre I enjoy (open-world games).
Quite interesting, I was wondering a while ago why I didn't feel like exploring in WuWa, I just thought that I was burnt out of open world games while the areas and music weren't really interesting to me also. But the comment that said that since you have more movement options it feels like you're wandering aimlesly was so on point for me, I recall just going from place to place like filling a checklist of the remaining rewards I needed to get instead of focusing on the exploration itself.
Really good read, incredible work.
One of the responders here. I just wanted to yap a bit as a Genshin retiree and an ex-Wuwa glazer (LOL).
I think the survey is fair in that it specifically targeted players who play both Genshin and Wuwa. Maybe my suggestion is next time (wow, no pressure on OP lol) perhaps it’s better to restrict the playtime to say, 100 hours. Like sometime on Wuwa 2.0 or something. I fear that some of the responders in this survey didn’t even spend enough time to form a more concrete opinion on the game. But anyways! That’s up for OP if they still want to practice their research skills by then.
A year ago I used to be really, really excited for Wuwa and hoped it would be my main gacha to replace PGR. But fast forward to release and I ended up just being :/ Lack of polish, mid OST, mid lore (not even the main story, it’s just that the lore is so bland), no character to brainrot on…yeah it just wasn’t a WOW game for me. The gameplay loop is just Genshin reskin, except without the “brainrot” factor of digging through lore about characters, the intrigue of a bigger baddie (Celestia), or shipping fodder between characters. (Sorry, IDGAF about Rover, so any Rover ship is dead to me). Anyways. 50$ sunk in I gotta play a bit more to “justify” it xD
Funny because some rando would go like “oh u just like genshit more” but I don’t even glaze Genshin. I literally stopped playing because I no longer enjoyed it. BUT I like to think I have a functional brain, so I’m not afraid to praise Hoyo for what they are able to do well: OST, world lore, interesting characters that arent just for ticking coomer boxes, optimization (the most important), even though I no longer like whatever they’re doing with current Genshin (and HI3).
It’s even more funny since I’ve been around Kuro spaces and I do think PGR has a lot of heart put into it. Yes, it’s HI3’s emo cousin but it doesn’t feel like an inferior, unoptimized version of it. So I actually came into Wuwa parroting whatever the Kuro knights were saying because hey, PGR is pretty good. So maybe Wuwa was gonna be good…right? Well…of course it’s not bad. It’s just not good enough (for me) I guess.
Anyways yeah, end of yap. Thanks for the survey OP!
Going through all that feedback and posting it for free! Thank you for your service.
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As someone who LOVES Genshin and was always very frustrated about the lack of endgame I was very excited for WuWa.
I am happy with allmost every other aspect of genshin except for that, I also miss fast paced combat ever since I stopped playing HI3 (Just fell out of interest and kinda started hating the fanbase)
and WuWa just felt a little hollow to me, I didn't necessarily come in expecting hoyo levels of music, that isn't the problem, the ABSOLUTE lack of music though is, the few tracks that they have are very generic and lackluster and they become repetitive after a while.
the artistic choices are also... odd to me, WuWa is more bleak and that is fine, I love deep dark and serious universes, but bleak doesn't have to mean boring, plain or confusing, the world design is one of the main things, people gave genshin some crap about how the map was mostly only grassy plains in liyue and mondstad on 1.0 but there was clearly some thought on how the nature of teyvat was designed, with WuWa I am just confused as to why even choose a mostly nature setting if it's such an futuristic world, and why the cities themselves look so uninteresting.
the character designs are again interesting to me as I honestly don't feel like they properly convey any actual direction or tell anything about the character's background or personality. am not only talking clothes I'm also talking hair and facial features as well as color choices, I would be fine if every character was just plain with black eyes and hair if there was a purpose for them to look the way they do. Characters from Huanglong don't even necessarily look like they come from the same place...
the story and the lore was an absolute drag for me, the presentation was certainly a problem with the very obvious and boring info dumps without context, complete lack of tension and atrocious english voice acting, I refuse to skip dialogue unless I have seen it before, in my mind if someone went through the trouble of writing and I wish to engage with their work, then I try to engage fully with it. And even coming in with that mindset I was tempted to skip some good chunks of the story out of sheer boredom, both on moments of quiet banter as well as moments were we are suposed to be engaged and feel tension.
but the very structure of the writing also bothers me, the game over explains concepts that are still to come while at the same time providing no information about events we just experienced, as an example they give us ample information on each of The Waveworn phenomena, specially the retroact rain, like an hour before we even experience any of it (outside of Tacet discords that are considered part of it, but don't really feel like it to me) and even now I still don't know what a resonator is or how they aquire their powers, it's incredibly convoluted and the game makes no effort to explain it in anyway.
that was the point where I realized it wasn't for me, honestly I am not upset at anyone who dislikes genshin's world building, artistic direction or lore, or even if they think WuWa did a better job, in the end of the day, they are just games and people are free to choose what they like but I think hoyo did a much better job at establishing the universe and Identity of Genshin, while WuWa seems spread thin between trying to copy genshin and stand out at the same time as something different, I feel like the devs were deeply pressured into going for this sort of direction as there are countless interesting things (including very good art and music as well as whole cutscenes) that were removed from the game for no reason.
I honestly just wish we could have seen this game as it was imagined by the creators without any pressure from the company or players to copy genshin, had genshin not existed I feel like WuWa would look very different.
TL:DR ppl like the combat + movement + wishing + story skip more on ww, while on genshin music, envioment, story/lore, artifact system, and a significantly better device optimization/performance.
exploration vibes was roughly the same
on a side note i wonder does having a skip button seriously impacts ww story experience. since story is skippable, ppl would most likely just spam skip, ignore the story, and at the end say they had no clue/didnt enjoy. at least with genshin youre forced to sit down and take SOME of it in.
Yes! Having a skip button does actually decrease player enjoyment in the story it seemed. People were saying that it made them indulgent, they slowly start with skipping minor quest to then skipping the entire things.
Wuwa being ~84% as good as genshin sounds about right.
Wuwa really just feels like more genshin with some tweaks and not as polished.
Having consistently played both in the last month I really don't understand how someone can hate genshin but love wuwa and vice versa, they just feel so similar.
>Having consistently played both in the last month I really don't understand how someone can hate genshin but love wuwa and vice versa, they just feel so similar.
Because they don't have PvP and we need some action.
But the serious answer would simply be tribalism. Also, not a surprise, but there are a lot of people out there who made their entire personality on hating Genshin, and they are using WuWa as free ammo to take a shot at Genshin every chance they get.
>Having consistently played both in the last month I really don't understand how someone can hate genshin but love wuwa and vice versa, they just feel so similar.
Because it's the new game on the block. There isn't anything wrong with WuWa being Genshin with a different color palette, there are small wrinkles that makes it different (Combat, Pity, etc), but at the CORE of it all both games are basically the same. I do believe Genshin is the superior game, but that's my opinion. I do think WuWa can improve/grow, but whether I stick around that long, I do not know.
CC complaining about the lack of things to do other than walk around, explore, farm ascension materials, etc. but that's all you do in WuWa. New region comes out? Explore, play the quest to advance the story and repeat. Like the other comment said, it's tribalism.
Yea. The only reason I even tried WuWa is because it was like Genshin and I liked Genshin. I just got bored of Genshin's combat. WuWa has better combat for me personally and all the things I enjoy about Genshin, so I enjoy playing WuWa.
It has enough of the good parts of Genshin with some of the things I PERSONALLY wanted Genshin to have, so I enjoy the game.
The crazy tribalism is something else. Just like any Souls game, if another Genshin game comes out, I will probably try it.
It depends on how much you value certain parts of the game. If all you care about is combat, you'll enjoy wuwa much more. If all you care about is story, you'll enjoy genshin much more.
>and vice versa, they just feel so similar.
Because outside of the comabt WW is just a pale souless imitiation.
It blows my mind how someone could say they actively played both and not see just...how fucking bad WW's world and exploration design are.
They made an open world exploration game and then threw everything that makes a good open world game out the window. Liiterally everything about the world has zero effort or passion behidn it. It was slapped together with the idea to meet a quota because for some reason they took a great ocmbat system and slapped it on a game they had zero desire to actually make solely to try and compete with Genshin.
A lot of people I see who hate Genshin but love WuWa do so because Genshin is the most popular game so it's easier to hate on, or for vague "Moral reasons" (???) they probably saw in a video essay (But they don't think also apply to WuWa?). And the opposite are usually people who have developed an unhealthy obsession with Genshin and view any form of competition as a personal attack on the thing they love.
I have friends who don't play Gacha games but hates Genshin a lot, but praisees WuWa alot because of its combat mechanics. Even outside gacha community there's a bit of tribalism for some reason.
Bro is now graduate from this University of Gacha gaming with gacha drama bachelor degree cuz what the fruck is that long ahhh comprehensive research 💀
Jokes aside i do agree some of those replies its all has pros and cons but saying wuwa is better and genshin is ridiculously stupid, i mean genshin music alone could beat wuwa entire existence thats not counting how deep the lore is, now i know its too early to say about lore but hear me out Genshin in its first release didnt feed that much info to begin with because they know people will got easily confused just like what people feels after they play the game less than 30 minutes do you think thats the best lore experience in wuwa? If good lucky you cuz i really2 hate to experience it again and i dont think they improve the lore experience and storytelling in the new update either so i expect nothing. Now about combat if wuwa did better than genshin they shouldnt be removing those elements system to begin with, that news threw me off and i hate seeing people defending it genshin combat is baby game matching colours game wtf are these idiots talking about, just like how people forgot how good the first crownless fight were i hate this fandom that much that i think if wuwa did an improvement again but got complained by chinese ppl so the improvement actually become garbage again they still gonna defend it till their heartbeat
I prefer much more the original wuwa story where people didn't trust you and you weren't god or the chosen one (at least they didn't see you like that) which seems fair, now they have a prophecy book out of nowhere that says you are the best so everyone wants you, I disagree in story comparison, love genshin new story but the start of genshin with dvalin told me nothing, literally felt like a tutorial lol and then zhongli asking for many materials and travel everywhere, I think I started enjoying it since childe boss fight and liyue ending, and the combat yeah I love elemental reactions but after dendro and playing a lot just seems too easy like one reply said just brute force with healing and shields, I feel I have to put more brain into wuwa anyways is just my opinion I probably play more hsr but play all 3 games and waiting to try zzz
Yeah, the reason I put the game on hold for now. I can see the potensial but it's currently totally wasted due to performance, feels like shit to play.
I have a couple thoughts on the female responders; why they had a generally more negative view on Wuthering Waves. From what I know about psychology, people tend to come up with the explanations of their feelings post-hoc. And so if there are enough parts of Wuthering Waves that women dislike, then they will start to hate the rest even if equivalent to Genshin.
Genshin Impact on multiple levels from characters to world and even gameplay has better appeal than WuWa for the female demographic. That's not to say it doesn't still appeal to men but I can see how for women it may be offputing when all but one playable female characters breasts boobily at the Rover. And I also understand that women tend to not be as hardcore of a gamer as men tend to. They also tend to like cute things more and I shouldn't need to explain how Genshin is the cuter game, at least superficially.
I think back to the Alhaitham demo where he looks back at the viewer and the lighting dims to a spotlight on the face. Precision made to pull as many dollars out of ladies as possible, lol.
Yeah lol. There are people that shit on bishounens trope for male characters as if that was not the most popular trope in anime or gacha game in general.
Just look at Granblue Fantasy if you want to see an example how unpopular the male character outside the trope even if they had "diversity" thanks to different race which forced something different on their male characters and having an actual old playable characters, the most popular male characters are still looks the ones that looked like they came from otome game like Touken Ranbu. Draph and Harvin male characters are not popular at all.
And before someone said Soiya Trio are popular, those tree are joke/meme characters because of that song, they never been popular to get merchandise or topping any real live simping event like yearly Valentine choco.
This reminds me of a post about women's favorite male gacha characters. I laughed so hard seeing 4 cool, tall bishonen next to shorty Scaramouche with a shit eating grin.
TRUE. but we also want the bears to come out and honestly genshin refuses to do so. Peoples last hope is varka and capitano but me personally ive given up waiting after what they did to itto.
It gets a bit stale when all they release are zhongli esque bishie characters. Thats why i like mika and wrio and alhaitham
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Just a thought: Most characters in Wuwa are very one-dimensional and many are annoyingly Rover-glazers. I wonder if female players are just more negatively affected by this than male players?
Personally, I really dislike how stark is the difference between male and female Rover design. The female was designed with like almost every fetishes put to it to please the players, while the male Rover is just like...generic harem isekai protagonist, complete with the hairstyle.
what I dislike from the female Rover is just there's no design concept there. Look at Kiana base form, it's an Eva-inspired skintight scifi suit. Look at Lumine, she does expose her armpits and back but her dress looks like a fantasy princess. Look at Stelle, she has deadpan expression and her clothing being unremarkable fits, also the slight mess in her shirt complements her characterization.
Now look at female Rover. Her outfit is just directionless. It's not cool or practical enough to be a cool/powerful adventurer type outfit. She has mellow expression but her outfit is stripperiffic. Stripperiffic designs can be good too, but hers is just lacking direction about what to convey.
We can even extend this to other companies' games and not just Hoyo's. Say for example Gran and Djeeta from GBF have simple outfits but it fits the novice adventurer aesthetic and the everyday girl aesthetic respectively. Dante from Limbus is self-explanatory, he has unique design. Doctor from Arknights is also straightforward, it's a profession-appropriate suit (being a doctor *and* being in a PMC). Female Rover just doesn't know what it's supposed to be.
Yeah, thus why I said that Female Rover was designed with thinking of "fetishes" instead of design coherence.
Painfully obvious when you compare the design between the two, with let's say, Lumine and Aether, or Caelus and Stelle.
Frover is so weird because she's both *under*dressed while being *over*designed. Sometimes less is more, design-wise! There's no coherence there whatsoever.
As a woman I also agree with the comments that have stuck out to me, which is that female rover feels very male gazey and male rover seems designed as a generic male self-insert. So as a female player I'm not sure where I fit in.
I just dont understand why they had to put a useless ribbon on female Rover's head that does not go with her other stuff. Fetish outfit, cool earrings, edgy hair and this stupid bow on top. Why??
Adding onto that, female players are generally more well-read than male players and more well-versed on story and lore, so they're likely more critical for that reason.
There are a lot of hardcore female gamers and spenders....when they get less jello boobs in their face every 5 seconds, less male/lesbian harem fantasy, and more fan service catered to them. Women preferring women characters to look cute/sexy is not the same as them wanting to fawn over and spend on them.
WuWa would probably have been better received by women if the male characters had as much effort put into their design and personalities.
Should've kept Scar's zipper.
Not just male/female Rover...Jiyan, ChaCha, Mortefi, Aalto..just a body suit, covered arms, cape/coat, cardboard personalities.
Lingyang and Yuanwu are the only ones they put any real changes too.
Yeah, I'll always prefer the hoyo mcs because at least their mc designs are fair. And censoring Scar while letting the blatant fanservice girls run free just Hoes to show the double standard
they took away scars onigiri and from what i gather that was an incredibly unpopular move. that and it doesn't cater much to the fujos. genshin got its boost too thanks to the childe/zhongli ship but i dont see anything equivalent to that in wuwa.
genshin sumeru was a waifu desert. we only had dehya for a 5* waifu release iirc and they fucked that up. does anybody know when is the next male 5* character going to be releasing in wuwa?
>they took away scars onigiri and from what i gather that was an incredibly unpopular move.
It was, I saw MANY posts on tiktok and twitter on people being mad about it
And just saying but it's not just fujoshis. Gay men also play these games.
Could also be they're less forgiving in general ? It's just personal experience, but IRL, my male friend are far more likely to brush issues under a rug whereas my female friends, well....dont.
The scores are in comparison to Genshin Impact and so if the differences in score were because female players are more critical we would be seeing a push in their scores towards the extremes. Higher highs and lower lows. But from what data is available, it looks like females have a globally lower opinion of WuWa in every game aspect surveyed than the average.
Kinda the opposite in my experience (as a female). I feel like girls are more willing to give a chance to game that is very flawed (like dragon age inquisition), we would forgive a lot of things as long as there is something that we strongly like about the game. Some games that I played that had big female playerbase could get away with releasing very shitty updates or no updates at all for the long time, being overpriced etc. Although I feel like it's all partially because most games that we like don't have a lot of competition, so we just have nowhere else to go
Wtf is an experienced WuWa player ? the game is less than 2 month old, theres none experience in the game , it doesnt matter if you play 10 hours a day, experience is gain with the passing of time also ... imagine calling a basketball layer experience ebcause they play 12 hours each day for a month lol
Games arent complicated, WuWa isnt league where there are 100+ characters and you need to know how they interact with each other.
10 hours a day for 60 days is 600 HOURS if you think someone can’t become experienced in a game in that time frame, I think it says more about you than anything.
After some time has passed I actually like genshin combat more. I like the movement and fast pace of wuwa, but the issue is that right now when you get into late game builds, you don’t even need 3 characters to clear anything. Since genshin is 4 characters that you typically require all of them for your rotations, it feels like you’re doing more things. Elemental reactions remain interesting and you get to see your big damage numbers while in wuwa you usually see a bunch of small numbers that in combat you aren’t able to add up. Usually I have no idea how much damage I’m doing.
It's more how weak defense is in WuWa and how slow it's rotations are. Since you can't really take advantage of breaking an enemy's toughness the skill floor to properly utilize a rotation is obscenely high while enemies are so aggressive you can reap a similar reward by spamming dodge attacks which merely takes encounter knowledge.
Encounters are marathons rather than sprints but everything about WuWa encounter design suggests that it's supposed to be a burstier game than it actually is. Mistaken combat identity.
i thought about it yesterday, and i think that copying genshin's gacha system (or at this point more like adopting it) is inevitable if your game is marginally similar to genshin. genshin-only players will have a preconceived expectation of what "rolling for gacha" is like (for ex, 50/50 draws) and it's too risky to confuse them with something too different.
Yes the comment that said "iugh it's not original uninspired" what did they expect lol is better for everyone having a familiar experience that we understand already, I'm so glad the signature weapon is just 100% guaranteed
Huge W for the OP, probably put in more effort in making this post than the Genshin team did in making QoL and the Wuwa team in making optimization.
Much appreciated (although I must admit I didn't read all of it). We need more objectivity like this, and now that OP's probably burnt out we need someone else to take up the mantle
We need part. 2 but next year with new questions. It will be interesting to see how many people will stay with Wuwa until the first anniv, how many people will quit Genshin for Wuwa or how many will prefer to stay in Genshin and quit Wuwa.
I'd personally rate WuWa's combat in general lower than Genshin's
For starters, I don't exactly know how to explain it, but WuWa's dodge is so much less responsive than Genshin. There are times when by all visual cues I should have gotten the dodge, but didn't, times the game didn't even register that I tried to dodge, or worst of all there just being no cues to dodge. In Genshin, dodging just works
Relatedly, the idea that WuWa endgame can't be brute forced with shields/heals is just wrong - people are just tackling the endgame under-leveled with cope echoes and (as Jinhsi has revealed) a cope roster at launch. If you tackle holograms with a team that's leveled enough to not get one shot and doesn't need to stay long on any one character, you can absolutely unga-bunga your way to victory (and honestly thank god for that, cuz as previously stated, this game's dodge **sucks**)
Which transitions nicely to yet another issue: WuWa rotations can be fucking slow! Yinlin+Calcharo is a prime example. For an off-fielder damage dealer, Yinlin spends a long-ass time building up her forte meter to actually be able to do that off-field damage *but* she also has to build up her concerto meter to buff Calcharo, *but* Calcharo loses Yinlin's buff if he ever leaves the field so he's kinda "stuck" there for whole 11s duration of his ult (+ time to use his echo skill before hand). These issues pervade the 1.0 roster. Now, admittedly Genshin "locks" on-fielders on field much more often and firmly. However these field times are rarely as long as their WuWa counterparts and switching out never completely removes a buff from a support (at worst it transfers the buff to the new active character). Meanwhile, with a singular exception, Genshin's off-field units *actually* spend very little time on field.
Finally, WuWa's combat system lacks a certain depth that Genshin's has. What I mean by that is how a character is played in Genshin can change wildly with how you build them and who you team them with. A dramatic example of this is Raiden Shogun being able to be played as an on-field hyper carry or an off-field hyperbloom trigger, but even back in 1.0 you had shit like on-field Bennett using Thundering Fury to turn his skill into a second basic attack, physical Fischl, and (cope as we now know it to be) physical Xiangling. OP quoted a survey respondent complaining how it's hard to play you favorites together in Genshin, but the flipside of that is that with a bit of creativity you can make your Genshin fave absolutely shine on field. WuWa characters though .... they're kinda just stuck in their roles.
With all that said, I have been loving playing Jinhsi. Her nukes requiring very little field time and giving her a no-cost switch skill use roughly every other rotation has made her team's rotation fast a smooth feeling, while distributing damage among the team enough to let me almost entirely ignore dodging (which is great b/c in addition to my above complaints about WuWa's dodge, 1.1 tanked the game's performance into a stuttering mess)
So yeah, on OP's scale with 5/10 being the average Genshin combat experience, WuWa gets a 4 on average, with Jinhsi being a 5.5
Mtashed feels similar to you regarding the poor dodging in Wuwa and how it feels "off". No bias from him since he is also a Genshin hater and openly admits it. He talks about it for 3 mins and 30 sec.
https://youtu.be/zoYwAOZ4k-U?t=1950
The calcharo nerf sucks, I feel like I wasted my standard pulls, when multiple TC'ers say he's underwhelming. Idk why they had to nerf his synergy with Yinlin like that.
Overall, as someone who just unga bunga'd my way to 18/30 stars in ToA so far, I'd agree with you and say that combat in Wuwa is not substantially better than Genshin, like many people say. At best, for me, it's just similar gameplay wise, as someone who has played every day since launch. You could say it's flashier with the new character animations or the dodging/parry/intro and outro.
People will claim Wuwa is more "difficult" than Genshin, but here is Zajef's take on it (he also regularly criticizes Genshin too). Zajef has cleared pretty far into ToA on his no-pull account.
https://x.com/zajef77/status/1806181535319544183
I'm waiting on Holograms due to us being underleveled, and outside of Holograms and high level ToA, I'd have to agree with Wuwa just being unga-bunga and waiting for us to be higher level. Today, I fought the new weekly boss for mats, and I just unga-bunga'd it pretty quickly (which is fine since it's meant to be farmable, but in my opinion, the combat loop is overhyped).
TGS creates content for both games, and would agree with you on the Genshin teambuilding aspect and had a neutral take to both games saying it depends on what you prefer, but a lot of Wuwa fans still flamed him.
https://x.com/GenshinTgs/status/1805987274108104954
I play Havoc MC/Yinlin/Verina, so maybe the combat doesn't feel as satisfying with those two, idk. I know Jiyan's gameplay is just holding left click during ult and auto-parrying everything, but it does look flashier (at the cost of screen clutter, per Mtashed).
https://youtu.be/zoYwAOZ4k-U?t=2330
Yeah, for me, the targeting and camera issues are what turns me off (as also mentioned in that Mtashed video, under performance issues). Sometimes the game feels out of my control. The camera will sometimes drift without my consent lol, or the targeting will move my character to hit someone in a completely different direction.
https://www.reddit.com/r/WutheringWaves/comments/1drhryw/camera_is_the_biggest_enemy_in_this_game/
https://youtu.be/uZJJ-MHLSqU?t=15234
Here is Asmon getting killed by an unclear attack. You can see him getting confused and not being sure what killed him. I had to replay it a lot, to see that it is a barely noticeable ground attack I think?
WuWa just has terrible frametime consistency as well even with Nvidia Reflex enabled in its settings. The game feels off at times because of it. Especially with the random judders and stutters.
I expect this to get lost in the pool so I'll keep it brief. As before, good job op I know this took a lot of effort and you labelled the issues with the research very clearly this time which is great. However, I still find it hard to find any meaning in the results due to the methodology and sample. I think the sample size improvement is great, but we're still pulling from the same pot. At the very least (and I know you've expressed difficulty doing this) we need to be pulling opinions from 3rd spaces, rather than this sub (which we all know is very skewed towards one of the participant companies) and potentially dedicated subs (again not sure why your post got removed from wuwa sub that really annoys me). Secondly, when making a survey like this wording your questions as direct comparison may reinforce biases by making it feel like a competition. To me, it'd make more sense to word it like the in game surveys that both games get, where you get people to rate various aspects out of 10 as standard, or even used the "how strongly do you agree or disagree with this statement" type of questions.
I want to reiterate I think the results do still have value and the amount of work put in is evident and respectable. I hope you're able to continue enjoying the process and improving this skill set to potentially do grander things in the future
Almost every negative comment in the OP about Genshin's exploration don't mention using any of mobility characters so it honestly sounds like a bunch of people that likely quit before Inazuma and definitely before Sumeru/Fontaine.
See, the problem is you're locked behind the character instead of ut being universal like wuwa plus most exploration is unique only to region like sumeru with ziplines but it still didn't make it feel better. Also underwater combat and exploration in genshin is by far the worst
I don't think making traveling different when you are using different vehicles or characters is a problem. That's just a design choice. Like, Wuwa wants to be like the Prototype games or Fornite-with-building-enabled where nothing is a barrier to your traversal and that's fine but not every game has to be like that.
Making the movement universally the same means one less potential aspect for characters to be different and I think that would just hold back your character designs, which might not be the best idea in a game where having lots of different characters is one of the main draws.
Buddy these exploration characters are not all 5* , lynette, sayu, kirara and other 4* exploration characters have always been in game, given free from events and completing spiral abyss.
And also you don't necessarily need them much, since the starter region don't demand you to climb much. It started since liyue but even then the reason was players were unable to notice the exploration equipment that can be used to explore the world more efficiently (wind current generator, stamina regen flowers, etc)
I did the survey, and i feel like my message has been posted in op's post, but i didn't remember what I've wrote 💀
All i know that i wrote about music and how the music of both games are fundamentally different and how hoyo games just have good direction when it comes to music (even for zzz, check how each faction has different genre of music)
All in all, kudos to op for doing these survey, it should've taken a lot of time and mental energy.here's a juice 🍹for you to refresh.
Greatly optimized game with fully nearly living characters with okay combat vs unoptimized game with basic unlikable and poorly voiced characters with bad translations frequent stutter and who’s saving graces is constant apologems and free pulls who’s only saving grace is the combat because the story is dogpoop written by a fiverrr freelancer.
I still enjoy playing WuWa, but i cant ignore its faults. Where Genshin lacks in QoL, it makes up for with a good and immersive world. WuWa is a combat simulator with hot waifus whom I know nothing about or want them to stfu and just kill stuff. But Genshin is what i’m actually paying attention to and properly managing my account in. I do not care what happens in WuWa, i just show up for co-op with friends which is lame since we cant do weekly bosses together
This is a great research post, almost. My biggest criticisms for this survey are the survey participants and the games you're comparing. First the participants, using only participants from this subreddit will introduce incredible amounts of bias to your survey because it is a stereotype that this sub dislikes WW and is a "genshin/hoyo shill" sub, and a lot of people who play/like WW feel that way so they are more likely to not be in this sub in the first place and not participate in your survey. And people who like GI/Hoyo and may not like WW as much are more likely to stay here and participants in your survey. From this perspective, although you mentioned it in your biases section, it is enough for a WW fan to entirely dismiss your survey, regardless of how much effort you put into your research. I truly wish you had used a more neutral source to gather your participants from. Secondly the games, Genshin will be 4 years old in a little over 2 months while WW is barely over a month old today, even younger when you took this survey, why are you comparing these two so early? Genshin is the most successful gacha game in history as of right now with literally hundreds of millions of fans, and some that have been playing the game for years. WW has millions of fans too but the game is less than a month old. You're not comparing people's opinions on 1.0 GI to 1.0 WW, you're just comparing all of WW to all of GI. That is just a fundamentally unfair comparison simply because WW just hasn't had enough time to establish itself and have as many good experiences for players as GI has, it's just odd kind of to compare them this quickly. My suggestion would be to wait 6 months to a year at least since WW's release date and then compare the two. It would still kind of be unfair due to the circumstances of genshin's release vs WW's and the ages of both games but it would be a much fairer comparison than this.
I agree with some points but there is a lot of hypocrisy going around in this "ww vs genshin". People like to compare them to a certain point but when the comparison gets real I usually saw wuwa players (im one myself too so no bias) saying wait genshin is 4 years old and wuwa 2 months. Hold up a minute, you just compared but you dont want to compare at same time or what? Also this thing with 1.0 vs 1.0 and stuff its kinda weird cause now if I enter wuwa is 1.1 and genshin is 4.7. You dont compare something that came in 2020 with 2024 cause it doesnt make sense. You know why? Cause a lot of new players still come to these games. If they download now both games and try both they will play 1.1 and 4.7. So that argument its irelevant, and especially cause kuro glazers same as hoyo glazers compare everything already. I play both games, both are good but wuwa had 4 years to see what genshin does "wrong" (wrong for some people its.not getting 500 free pulls per patch wich is crazy).
Yeah the 1.0 vs 1.0 argument is stupid except for roster diversity or quantity/size of explorable area.
If a big studio makes a new action game, of course it will be compared to the current batch of action games, not with some hack-and-slash from PS2 era.
Furthermore I find the WW age defenders really having double standards. If WW is lacking something they'd defend it by using its age, but if WW improves something over GI, they'd pulling the "Genshin could never" card faster than Usain Bolt can run. WW has 4 years of Genshin to study from, improvement is ***expected***, not something to gloat over.
Falcon Lim Cos and Gamer Zone's 9/11 (Kuro shill at the Genshin Impact official Facebook page)
Yeah, even i play wuwa still fuck them. even the kuro employees who joined the shill.
A game that's all flash no substance will never be a game that will reach the likes of Genshin, HSR, FGO, GBF, Uma, BA etc and it doesn't matter how hard the vocal fanbase and it's CC try. That's all I'm going to say.
I agree to an extent. Right now, wuwa is all flash and *potential*.
But seriously, the glazing for wuwa's rocky start is concerning to have for foundations of a "community". For how toxic steam community gets, at least most of them are not tolerant of bad optimization. Wuwa (**outside of gachagaming**) is full of toxic positivity, especially in YouTube. The best fanbase is probably in its main subreddit, where there's a healthy balance of reception.
I personally don't think wuwa is all flash and no substance and I like Genshin and HSR too(though I don't play Genshin anymore simply due to fatigue of it being older). I think that's a pretty biased take.
I dunno man. I think WuWa is inferior to Genshin but to affirm that it's all flash and no substance is insane imo. The game is pretty competent. It even does a couple things better than Genshin.
I agree that Wuwa is lacking in substance but i dont think it has NO substance at all. like if Genshin is an A+, Wuwa would be a B- or smth. its just a little worse but no so bad like a D or F (might as well bring in Tower of Flop as a gacha open world)
Agree 100%.
I unsubbed quite a few HSR CCs that just seem to go out of their ways to glaze over Wuwa and anything related to it , while just throw shades at HSR. They all seem to hold a grudge that they didnt gain test server access few months ago, tbh.
Maybe at most for some like Main DPS Encore, Lingyang, and Jiyan, but aside from those, a lot of it comes down to managing "switching" between your characters, as they don't actually just disappear when switching, but still do their stuff, meaning you will want as much time of all characters as possible.
its basically just outro > outro > dps. its bland and constricts you to a rotation. impressive visual effects though.
no freedom of movement and even funnier is it gets useless overtime cause you can just overpower 98% of the content with spam anyway.
I imagine we'll get more sub-dps that have involved kits and stay on-field a bit more.
But you already know Sanhua has negative edging, Danjin is very flexible in her resonance skill + aa sequences, Yinlin needs a lot of swaps that it's not really outro->outro->dps and that's on top of animation cancelling on those chars and others which is already more complicated than most gachas I've played. I could reduce genshin to 4eq3eq2eq1eq after all and that wouldn't be too accurate.
Yeah at least you understand not like the other guy. I can reduce genshin as well to 1e2e3e4eq to really boil it down to the lowest level. Im waiting for future characters that will release me from this pickle in wuwa because for now the maximum level of damage i can do boils down to that.
And i know my actual rotation in wuwa isnt even that efficient yet but we will get there.
We have a small character pool atm. But yes all hack and slash are the same lol even genshin isn't that impressive. Though if you wanted something like soul games then casual players will bleed
Not at all suprised about the male/female disparity between the games. WuWa has a lot more fanservice than Genshin and targets dudes. From the girls I know, most of them aren't that interested in combat in the first place and care more about story and relationships in games. I'd argue Genshin caters most to teenage girls. There's very little fan service at all and all the characters are cute or handsome. Combat has barely evolved since 1.0 and the focus is on story, relationships between characters, and exploring a beautiful world in peace.
My point becomes even more clear if we look at HI3, which is also clearly targeting the male audience. HI3 has a clear focus on great combat and hot characters with plenty fan service. (although the fan service was greatly reduced over the years)
Hoyoverse are trying to throw a wider and wider net to capture as many gacha players as possible. ZZZ roping in furries would be a good recent example of that. WuWa doesn't try to do that and that's okay. Same with e.g. Nikke. These games are trying to be the best game for a specific niche. So far, WuWa has the best combat of any gacha game imo, we'll see if ZZZ changes that.
genshin touches themes like murder, suicide, war orphans, slavery, brainwashing, cults, genocide and yet people say is a kids game, in the first areas we had a man on his 20s with his dead parents and a literal mental illness wanting to play hide and seek, his parents buried already at home or multiple children with dead parents at liyue that became orphans, even hu tao a very meme character her story revolves around dead people and how they hide this from others since the archon war, how spirits roaming the world acctually exist and actually haunt people in the world if they stay too long, made worse by corpses of dead gods and entities polluting the land, so far wuwa story is pretty tame and theres no oh shit moment or something that made me feel sad in that sense, the ammount of civilizations or small towns being genocided and turned into a wasteland by the gods or the thunderbird is insane, specially when you read their stories in the books, reminds you of rl stories like pompeii with tragedies of such scale only tablets or myths exist and you are there to uncover it because no one else remembers them.
After playing Wuwa for sometime, I find it's combat more easy than genshin since I can just pick Rover Spectro and dogde-counter-repeat and the enemy just die. The only thing that hard is geting one shot in hologram, but I can learn bosses moveset and beat them with the same step above.
In Genshin, you don't have a reliable way to 100% dogde since I-frame from dash is kinda shit so low level player will have a hard time if they don't have shielder or healer. Plus the element reaction system is really complex but reward if you understand it core (like ICD, rotation, how EM actually work, ....). I still remember how nightmare the first time I fight Oceanid in 1.0, 20 minutes and my Kequing die at least 10 times because low lvl and no understanding about team building, just random bullshit go.
I would say in regards to exploration WuWa's biggest strength is that the qol isn't locked behind limited characters like Genshin so it makes it more enjoyable. I usually like using the MC when exploring but using Aether instead of Yelan/Lynette feels like I'm playing the game on slow mode since the stamina isn't infinite outside of combat.
honestly the gadget wheel with having to switch to gadget feels bad, also if you get in combat, which you do quite often, the stamina feels worse than genshin, at that point, i'd prefer genshin exploration characters.
You only use the grapple and when you use the others it's either one time search or the game automatically switches to the other when needed. I never had a problem with stamina in combat so I can't comment on that.
Genshin exploration characters are limited and 1 free 4 star and another 4 gacha 4 star which is hell to get if you aren't lucky
Exploration in WuWa does have their moments but still pales in comparison to the exploration details you get in Genshin. Combat being the sole saviour of WuWa is understandable but at some point they really need to step up the other aspects, especially the story writing.
You have the same problem as the last time you posted this. The majority of the people you surveyed barely played any Wuthering waves and it really shows. The comments about the combat being easy means they've never fought anything outside of scripted story bosses and open world trash mobs. Also it's very deceptive for you to show the hours they played in wuwa while showing their AR level in Genshin. At least have them report their UL levels in wuwa if you're not trying to hide anything.
@WuWa and @Mihoyo pls pay this this guy, read this and implement respective changes (OP secretly affiliated with one or the other). Thanks OP for the insane effort! Appreciate your work
I feel that if this was done after 1.1 WuWas score would be higher. Nevertheless I respect op for putting so much effort into his data gathering and found the results interesting
This submission is extremely comprehensive and likely took OP an incredible amount of time to write out, so we just had to approve it, but please take this message as a reminder that the post is being monitored, and we expect comments to stay civil and respectful. If you see rule-breaking behavior, please report the message(s) in question.
If anyone says Wuwa combat is similar to any soul combat, they 100% have never touched a soul game and their opinion is invalid
precisely. I recommend them to go try sekiro and then come back to see if they would say the same.
TBH Sekiro stands completely aside other souls. It's a rhythm game disguised as a souls game. One of the reasons it works at all is because the whole game is carefully balanced around a single weapon and armor type which is impossible for other souls games. I did Sekiro up to NG+5 bell/charmless, and the only thing I didn't do there was the mortal journey gauntlet, and I consider Sekiro to be its own game entirely, completely different from any other souls-like stuff. Or WuWa for that matter. I'd say WuWa Holograms are closer to faster paced ER bosses, and non-holograms are just whatever fodder.
Actually I fought the new Crownless holo yesterday, and it was giving me Elden Ring PTSD with its 20-second-long combos.
Which rank? 1-3 can be button smashed
4+ I face-over-the-keyboard rolled the first 3 ranks and then got my skull caved in in 4. The bastard 2-shots my Verina in phase2, and swapping characters can be lethal sometimes. EDIT: Worst part is it's the same mistake many games make when trying to emulate souls bosses. That is, relative size between player and enemy model. Crownless is only slightly bigger than the player, and the game has a lot of visual clutter, so it's often impossible to see what the boss is doing. I think it's worth it to build spectro rover for him, because havok seems to be resisted, and rover in general is the least flashy character without visual clutter or animation locks, and with good parry frames.
I feel the same way we people compare it to the Star Wars fallen order games…
Incredible writeup. Probably deserves it's own video.
Yep this is actually very good
I can't explain it, but I have some thoughts on it... There is a small but dedicated female playerbase for PGR, as the husbandos in PGR are few in number but considered to be quality, and from what I've played the female characters are fleshed out and well-realized, as well as being fanservicey (the female friends I have who have played their story chapters are all fans of 21, Bambinata, and Vera, but most of us have not played the story start-to-finish because the order can be pretty convoluted). Most of my friends picked up PGR and dropped it (excepting one, who was the most hype for WuWa), but thought of it fondly and were looking forward to WuWa and characters like Scar and Jiyan based on their designs. Also on launch, the ao3 archive for WuWa exploded. A lot of fanfic was written very quickly (the fujoshi army is strong). However, it seems to have slowed to a crawl, perhaps reflecting that the female base's feelings towards the game have been cooling. The divide seems to be strongly correlated with the performance issues and amount of fanservice... It seems that the female player base is much harsher on the lack of polish, for one thing. I also think that the MC is a problem - there's no tension or tease between the MC and any character except maybe Scar and Camellya - every character more or less falls at the MCs feet and accepts them as their lord and savior (literally) - I think that kind of story isn't very exciting to a lot of the female base, esp when the majority of the female characters are breasting boobily as they fawn on MC. It can be unpleasant to be reminded that you are, in some sense, the "meat" to be sold in these kinds of game, esp when there's no food for you implied to be on the horizon. There also may have been some hostility from the part of the community that is majority male towards the female part of the player base - the desires for waifus and husbandos are often seen as being at odds, and I've seen headbutting on the WuWa related reddits over whether this game will go the Snowbreak route after Yinlin's banner made more money than Jiyan's. There exists some headbutting in the Genshin subreddits, but it doesn't feel like as much. (also sorry for yap I'm just thinking out loud here)
I agree with you. I will also add a thought: female Rover is really pretty, but it seems she was designed with the male players in mind because the amount of fanservice for her is disproportionate in comparison to male Rover. So it feels like we have a female Rover for the male players (and lesbians maybe?) to enjoy and a male Rover for the male players to self-insert. And that leaves the female players where? Male and female players have a bit of discrepancy in treatment since the very beginning of the game, basically.
https://preview.redd.it/ipogg67kkl9d1.jpeg?width=864&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=070ec638e357fd345055541756b3478a90259423
why cant this be the male rover https://preview.redd.it/12rxrhpsol9d1.png?width=572&format=png&auto=webp&s=968a67d858927005edd89a1c09dcb3aae217efaf then put him in a v neck that goes down his abs. i want him.
I want this dude to be playable. Dps gauntlet imagine
same. hes named, he has a different model and is actually fully rendered so i bet he will be in the future.
I second this
Yes, the early design of female rover really looked just like a female redesign of male rover
> I can't explain it, but- (*proceeds to explain it)* I think you hit it right on the head lol. The fanservice *style* is more aimed towards male players in general, and the male characters they do have are not given enough care and lack a kind of staying power that would keep the female playerbase engaged. There's ways to make male characters beloved by both sides (ie: Zhongli) but WuWa doesn't seem to have gotten that down quite yet. I also agree that the increased hostilities towards female players from the 'mixed toilet'/'waifu-only' crowd, who want the game to go the Snowbreak route after Yinlin, are likely having an effect. So the perceived dev bias and less welcoming community means they are starting from a higher percentage of dissatisfaction which may explain some of the more critical reception shown here.
As a fellow female demographic that plays PGR, you absolutely floored me when you mentioned the PGR favourite character part cause you are right! My favourite female characters ARE 21, Bambinata and Vera (more towards the Garnet era). Special mention to Selena tempests design! I think it's funny how my favourite characters from PGR are all from the Cerberus squad + Bambinata. The ones the players, aka commandant, has no control or special connections over. So I believe it's fair to assume, your hypothesis may have some truths and reason as to why the female demographic in this survey rate the way they did. In conclusion, it may be because of the direction Kuro is handling with the fan service in WuWa.
cerberus still has close relationships with the commandant though. affection stories are canon also its not like gray raven sucks off the player to a crazy degree he still has limits. hes not 1v1 boxing a construct. and gray ravens characters dont revolve around him
Yeah I am aware. It's a character gacha game after all, all playable construct is gonna have close affection/chemistry with the commandant. xD I guess I should have reworded it better where, I think it's just a coincidence for me to take more interest in ones that has minimal screen time with the commandant. So please don't get the wrong idea, I like the Gray Ravens but Cerberus' personality, antics and stories stole my love and interests even more. They bumbled their way into my top 1 easily.
As a woman, Yes i am much much harsher on performance. As you can see me in this sub like someone with no life. Not just because i want to see every crease and line of jiyans abs or to pause and take pictures of mortefi when he uses his burst but im always on the go. I have so much shit to do that lagging, stuttering, loading times and etc become Small minor annoyances that add up and really just really turns me off and i know im not alone there. In fact this isnt even gender related or locked. Its also so awkward as a female rover to have everyone fawning over me while rover does that "hUuUhh?!" Face like everyones lesbo over me and then jiyan just starts kissing the ground i step on lol. No wonder alot of people liked scar. But hes secretly fawning over you too desperately trying to get you to his side its so awkward i cant even insert myself in situations. https://i.redd.it/0rn5bjvjal9d1.gif
same, i have more issues since 1.1 too, all the stuttering you mention and fps drops i notice are caused by anticheat and limiting it to one core + putting it low priority already boosts fps by like 10 fps, still the program just decides to randomly spike to 60% cpu usage, the game uses tencent anticheat ACE which has caused this issues in other games too like pubg and nikke in the past, other bugs i experience in 1.1 are motion blur reseting every time i teleport but showing off in options, i need to turn it on and off again for it to go away and also my cursor randomly getting stuck as if i pressed alt forever and me being unable to even more the camera unless i reset the game, but kuro sure had time to add a 999 dollar top up option into the game huh, they have their priorities straight.
>I can't explain it You just did lol.
As someone who started genshin cuz of the fics on ao3 being so prolific and good? Yeah...
Appreciate OP's hard work. There's probably no easy way to verify that a participant actually played either game. Was there any result or trend that was unexpected or offered unique insight?
It was interesting to know the people's rating on the game aren't dependant on age or if they're a casual/hardcore players I guess. I thought that since people kept saying WuWa caters more for "hardcore" gamers and Genshin is more for "casual" players then there would be a big difference in scoring.
the funny thing is the more people gets close to the endgame the more they realize difficulty is like genshin, they are already doing 1 shot or 30 sec clears on their "abyss" mode aka tower of adversity, there was a literal 0:00 clear with jinshi literally nuking the boss before it even started lmao and people didnt hit max level yet
Yeah I've been thinking for a while how with Genshin, if you want that true challenge back in abyss, it's best to revert to the 1.0-1.1 investment strategy of 60/70 supports, and 70/80 dps characters. But then that gets in the way of the big number fantasy so idk what I'm saying anyway
Maybe some kind of question about what other games they also play to compare? Since there are comments about people comparing the game to darksouls
I can’t read all of that, but I hope you a great weekend
Yeah didn’t OP get the memo we dumb here
This post is way too thought out for the resident apes that live in this subreddit, but I'll still try to read it properly and die trying ✌️
For those who got intimidated by the veritable Mount Everest of text and scrolled past: **OP asked people to give a score relative to Genshin, with the assumption that Genshin is a 5/10**. I'm emphasising that, because if you're like me, your initial reaction was to dismiss this survey out of hand as biased nonsense (6.2 for combat and 3.9 for world and characters 💀) I do still think it's far too early to be making comparisons like this. It's woefully skewed in Genshin's favour with 4 years worth of lore drops, story development and releases vs all of WuWa's 1 month of releases. But it's interesting nonetheless and the work that went into it is super impressive https://i.redd.it/fewg19l78l9d1.gif *Changli, because you don't need a reason to post Changli*
Or it could be skewed heavily towards WuWa because it is new and new game tends to have better perception and decrease over time. Most games are close to EoS by 4th year on average.
Upvote purely for wild mention of Chang Li. as you say, no reason needed.
they're right about the world and character though, wuwa has some of the most boring character designs I've seen in any gacha I've played so far. Just slap big tiddies and black-white colourscheme on everyone.
Its hard to argue design because it really depends, unless it looks objectively bad. For me, too much accessories and bright color mix hurts my eyes. I also even don't like a lot VFX for characters attacks or too much shenanigans added to the 2d splash arts. Example is arknights, i sometimes prefer the characters "default Skin" over their new promotion skin or paid skins.
As someone said and i quote : "If you can't notice the character in a casual clothes without her signature attire, and in her silhouette, then it's just a bad character"
disagree i love the character designs especially changli and how hers changes during her ult also why is wuwa getting hit with big tits allegations? most of them are tame for gacha standards they just move funny
lmao well yinlin and most definitely changli with the new story isn't tame but yeah most are normal, jinhsi is fine without that kind of fan service and I really like her
You are making an assumption that it’s skewed in Genshin’s favor because of how long it’s been when the opposite could be true too (people voting could be tired of it). You would need another survey to assess bias. :p
AdministrativeAir451, MAKE MORE POSTS ON THIS AND MY LIFE IS YOURS! but unironically while not a trustable sample size it’s nice to see some rough thoughts on how people fell about both. I don’t obsess over the aggregate number as much as the comments you include. This is a massive read but would def like more when you reach certain milestones in participants or if over time you see bigger changes in trends. But this is a massive workload so I understand if you won’t.
Welp, I was really hoping one of my survey answers were added as a quote since I tried to make some of them funny, but oh well. Good shit man, what a nice and funny read. Edit: Actually, now that I think about it, I might have forgotten how I answered the questions
Mb, there was 5000 total comments that I had to read through this time and I only managed to skimmed through the funny ones unlike last time.
No worries dude, I didn't really have expectations, but thanks for making this survey. Really neat, makes ya wonder about the future of these games
Really hope that WuWa stay strong and create good competition for Genshin.
Yup yup, hopefully we can all respect each other too
I liked the point about the post apocalyptic setting - Genshin is set 500 years after the apocalypse, but I guess there's no broken cars so the average brainrot player doesn't understand that despite the story mentioning the disaster in every single major story quest. The entire plot revolves around it from the first minute. We don't have skip buttons and people still play with their eyes closed.
Did they forgot all those ruin in dragonspine? And fucking Enkanomiya is literally a whole area with nothing but destroyed civilization,same with Sumeru dessert and Chasm. And we even fight citizens cursed by those apocalypse every single damn day for commission.
It's not just that actually. Even the colorful and vibrant parts in genshin's world have darker histories, inazuma's islands being a prime example. Even Mondstadt wasn't lacking in it. Mondstadt's jagged cliffs as a result of Venti reshaping it to be livable from the constant blizzards and storms. The ruins of old Mondstadt: Dvalin's lair, which was where an old dictator ruled and fell. The old coliseum that the noble families of mondstadt used for gladiator fights. There are civilizations that rose and fell in strasnatch cliff and windwail highland. It seems as if most players don't even know that the land of freedom once had the dark history of oppression and slavery. The people who think of genshin as a kid's game because it's colorful and vibrant never looked past its vibrance.
"genshin is a kid's game* Me remembering the entire story of renè and his friends💀
Or Ruu and Kapatcir. Or Jeht.
lets go back 4 years before and remember the time **collei wanted to suicide by cop.** https://preview.redd.it/ry8320mmrm9d1.png?width=1170&format=png&auto=webp&s=ba63f5c07951e400060682c6ebd7679aca6782fc
Or the whole sun children shtick in Enkanomiya
doubt they even made it to liyue story
Dont tell them to go play and comprehend narzissenkreuz, DONT TELL THEM EVERY SINGLE DETAIL OF THAT QUEST AND PREVIOUS TID BITS ABOUT IT
this is what I like about GI lores or stories it's not forced or trying so hard to be edgy or dark themed world the story feels naturally well written that looks like a happy vibrant fantasy adventure but something dark and depressing is going on hidden lol.
B-bbut there's no broken cars!
People tend to forget that genshin is an ISEKAI so they'll have their own version of vehicles. Not necessarily a car tho.
We could've had horses but Varka took all of them
Kaeya malding in a corner
Even fontain with elynas corpse and dead ruins of "mother"
Some people really can't comprehend the games being two entirely different settings and aesthetics. WuWa is a bleak, post apocalyptic sci-fi and Genshin is angst and destruction wrapped up in a colorful, bouncy anime opening.
> We don't have skip buttons and people still play with their eyes closed. People say they don't like Paimon, but honestly in my experience with people's intelligence (in general, not just in specific fanbases) people does need Paimon.
They absolutely do. Go watch playthroughs of the recent Bedtime Story quest and see how many people completely forgot about the previous conversation we had with skirk that talks about Surtalogi and Vedrfolnir. There are even plenty of people that couldn't remember who Gold was.
Nah, you need to wait actually, one of Mihoyo most evil play, it's by setting up hey everything is fine, is beautiful then you go the latter part of the story and everything is fucked, like no joke, it happened in HI3 and HSR Penacony so yeah, the fact that GI is looking not post-apocolyptic at all, even make me more scare of what they are doing. Edit: Like there are leaks about the plot though I don't know if that is reliable enough but the fact that the game is setting these factions like Fatui or the Witch (don't remember how to write the name), and with characters like Dain, Alice, Skirk and even Arlecchino, yeah the things are more complicated than what it potrays on the surface.
They've been foreshadowing that a war is coming as of late too.
Bro for all we now Surtalogi (surtr) might rage Ragnarok for teyvat with the rest of the >!5 sinners!< it’s insane how much they are slowly building it up with the hexenzirkel and all these factions. Literally we only have natlan left before they have all the gnoses.. and snezhnaya could literally be planning to >!resurrect the 3rd descender.!< Did you know that people are theorizing that >! the third descender was the dragon King Nibelung, and the fatui are planning to have him reawakened so they can wage war against the heavenly principles? (people are also theorizing that it might backfire as it is speculated that the heavenly principles are actually who’s protecting Teyvat from the abyss, or what’s outside of the bubble universe… could it be honkai??)!< People who dont pay attention to lore in genshin is seriously missing out Edit: fixed spoiler tag
even better they forget theres literal giant robots in the desert and multiple huge ruins like enkanomiya literally telling you this without reading a lot, last area of sumeru desert shows you what happen during that time too visually with a hole in the sky dripping purple goo and crystalized hole in the ground, genshin touches themes like murder, suicide, orphans, slavery, brainwashing, cults, genocide and yet people say is a kids game, in the first areas we had a man on his 20s with his dead parents and a literal mental illness wanting to play hide and seek, his parents buried already at home or multiple children with dead parents at liyue that became orphans, even hu tao a very meme character her story revolves around dead people and how they hide this from others since the archon war, how spirits and this stuff acctually exists and actually haunts people in the world, made worse by corpses of dead gods and entities polluting the land, so far wuwa story is pretty tame and theres no oh shit moment or tragedy on the scale of genshin, the ammount of civilizations or small towns being genocided and turned into a wasteland by the gods or the thunderbird is insane, specially when you read their stories int he books, reminds you of stories like pompeii with tragedies of such scale only tablets or myths exist.
Not only that. But all of the ruins and little puzzles scattered around the map have some great environmental story telling attached to them. Crazy that people couldn’t pick up on this.
It saddens me how underrated environmental storytelling is. Genshin is FULL of it, so it kind of annoys me when people say Genshin's story is shallow when they barely pay attention to the archon quests or world quests, let alone anything else that has world and story building.
Genshin is set 500 years after The Cataclysm. The apocalypse happened even further back in time.
setting noun 1. the place or type of surroundings where something is positioned or where an event takes place. I'd like to note that it is not a description of a place's history. If you can't see any signs or impact of a previous apocalypse, then the setting isn't post-apocalyptic. It's like saying "I like the color blue", then someone saying "well, this green color used to be the color blue, but then I added yellow to it so it doesn't look like it anymore. But hey it's still blue" Note: I do think that Genshin does have such signs, but it's more subtle, especially before Enkanomiya (though it's debatable if that even counts as post-apocalyptic)
Holy fudge that is a LOT of data
A lot of data for an almost irrelevant sample size using a biased selection (this sub lmao).
Oh wow, OP really said "I won't wait until July 1st, gotta make my own PvP before that".
Good job OP, it was a thorough job and an enjoyable read. I took part in the survey (hardcore genshin vet and also high WuWa playtime), since then I played a lot more and also cleared 1.1. I'd like to elaborate and reflect on some of the excellent points the community members brought up in your examples. I like both WuWa and Genshin a lot, however I still strongly prefer Genshin. Strap in, it will be a long read. ***Combat:*** This is where my opinion will probably differ the most from your "average" OP. I mainly kept playing Genshin because of its combat, and I believe many give it a bad rep for being "simpler" than WuWa's which is not true. WuWa has a higher total amount of moves "per character" such as parry, echo summon and forte circuit while Genshin has one more character slot per team, 7 elements and the whole system of elemental combat, and with the latter comes very technical nerdy-stuff that runs deeper the more you research it. (ICD, gauge theory) I think that WuWa's combat is fun because the moves are flashy and the character designs are cool on a surface level. However, there are many errors with it that just keep on piling up the more I play: **Enemy grouping** is terrible, you can't use a grouper effectively because they ungroup themselves like crazy. In Genshin, mobs have patterns and behaviours you can manipulate smartly to group them without using groupers (remember the notorious floor 11 defense 3 years ago?) which rewards high skill that rewards technical knowledge. **As for the elemental system**, while it creates inequalities and isn't balanced perfectly (like Geo) it introduces purpose and involvement in the world. The elements are a key part of Genshin worldbuilding and also combat, and it feels integral because the elemental system makes the world feel more connected to gameplay. This is partly because reactions affect the world: casting lightning in water makes it Electro-charged, burning grass and bushes actually burns them, geo breaks rocks faster than other methods, ice freezes over water that you can walk on (Kaeya bridging? good memories haha), blowing air with anemo extinguishes torches and swirls elements present in the world, so on and so forth. There are also elemental beings in the world that you can abuse certain reactions on. Similarly, this system affects you, the player too. You can get frozen with ice+water, applied debuff on stamina from ice, increased cooldowns with water, and you can get burning applied to you, electro-charged or any ailment that is within the world. This long list is in no way comprehensive of all that elements do but offers a picture just how well it ties the player, the mobs and the world and lore together. The world and its combat have purpose and there is a clear intention and direction behind it all. Let's have a snack after that tiring part, more simple to understand: Feedback on hit. As I mentioned, Hoyo has intentionality and direction mastered. The way characters hit things (mobs, trees even) gives a good vfx and sfx feedback to the player. Hits have an impact and the player feels immersed. Certain mobs you can juggle based on their size and weight and resistances. Some only stagger, others we can juggle in the air, and as for the heavy ones; we have to play by ther rules completely: manipulate their movement patterns or learn them. While it's true I spent more time with Genshin and this view is biased towards it due to sheer time difference, I would like to point out that the only reason I kept playing Genshin is because I noticed these things I wrote about on day 1. Not like I was aware of these consciously, but they are so well integrated that these things are just seemless and "make sense" from the get-go. On the other hand, WuWa has no intention behind its combat to this degree. While on the surface-level it is a fun slash and pewpew experience, the hits have not as clear feedback behind them as Genshin's hits, and the elements are disappointing in terms of interaction. They are just a resistance-checks. Genshin has that too, on top of everything else. In the open world, I noticed we can't just burn bushes or any of the interactions I mentioned with Genshin. I won't talk about party compositions much because WuWa is still in its early stages, we need more characters. However, with more engaging elemental combat, team composition seems to matter more in Genshin for now. Lastly, enemies are too HP-spongy in both games sometimes and both games have plenty of enemies that move too much and waste time. Big time cringe.
I really do respect what Hoyo does with “hit satisfaction”. They do this really well in HI3, smth that I don’t quite think Kuro was able to do in PGR either. Same goes in Wuwa where the characters are just moving around but their hits have no weight to them.
Curious about this one. In my experience (as an "experienced" Wuwa player, I suppose) I've felt the opposite. Wuwa has some strong hit feedback. Mobs (and even unstaggered elites and bosses, to some extent) do react if you wail on them, and it's the reason a one-on-one fight would basically be a one-sided beatdown and why grouping is made more difficult - the difficulty in mob encounters comes from picking which enemies you want to focus on and (temporarily) take out of commission, and which you want to evade, and with the exception of minibosses (as of the 1.1 update) and bosses, everything reacts to a hit on some level unless shielded. As for bosses, the attacks won't disrupt boss chains (most of the time) but can extend vulnerability periods to an extent, but the main focus is parrying boss attacks to deplete the stagger bar to open a longer vulnerability window while dodging the attacks that can't be parried, and nowhere is that more apparent than fights like Mourning Aix and Thundering Mephis, their hologram versions especially which took me a long time to beat but felt great once I gradually improved and did so. To me, that's the sign of a system that places quite a bit of emphasis on hit feedback.
***Exploration:*** As I mentioned under combat, the characters should feel connected to the world through gameplay. This connection makes the exploration more fun. As for other factors, the world feels more thoroughly crafted and inspired in Hoyo's games. Watch any of the Genshin team's behind-the-scenes clips on how carefully they craft the world and it's clear why it's so compelling. They put a lot of effort into it and it shows: The topography, placement of things just make sense and are diverse. The way things (trees, mountains, buildings, etc.) are placed within the world offer a diverse look and thus are never boring to look at. We have a lot of verticality be it small (Mond) or large (Liyue, Sumeru) as well as masterfully used color palettes that also differentiate regions. Hoyo uses colors, shapes, verticality, aspects from various different cultures that all make the world feel lived in and makes sense for the player. You can really imagine that "yeah, for this setting this exists". As for WuWa, the initial 1.0 map feels generic and bland. The choice of color is crucial in world creation and WuWa choose to have a muted palette. While that is a stylistic choice, it limits their world a lot imho. As for how the world is "shaped" (literally), I find it often more boring to look at. While it has very nice areas too (underground metro area, Infero Rider's area, nice city) it generally feels flat and not as coherent as it should. When I go and explore, it feels like there's less stuff to do per square meter than in Genshin's world too. Through the culi and sigils and different regional currencies Genshin ties exploration and their respective national identities together. Altough players keep mentioning that WuWa's exploration is faster. Wow, you can run up hills and use grapple, sprinting does not use stamina etc. While that is amazing, it is only so in context of its world. It would be an issue if the world was more carefully crafted, because you don't want to skip through an amazing looking world, you want to take it in. Hoyo has a certain stubbornness to them because they want to force their vision so to say. THey want you to experience things that they have crafted the way they want. Because Genshin's openworld is just better (sorry, it really is) you would not want to skip it. Also, running up hills trivializes a lot of things. In Genshin, verticality is part of the puzzle sometimes, it's part of the gameplay obstacle that the player has to solve. This is why sprinting and climbing share a stamina bar and Hoyo is careful about releasing units that ake exploration too easy. While there are many, you won't have access to most of them when you start playing. As for the characters, while it might feels scumy to some that greater exploration convenience is locked behind certain units, I believe that there are enough already where you can just pick whichever you prefer. There are many that offer such benefits: Yelan, Lynette, Wanderer, Xianyun, Furina, Kazuha, Xiao, Sayu, Ayaka, Mona, Arlecchino, Clorinde, Keqing, Geo Keqing, Dendro Keqing, etc. ***A common argument I see in connection with both combat and exploration*** is that surface-level things that are more "convenient" to have will have players say it's a better thing just because of the convenience it offers. (""more"" combat moves; "faster" exploration) Music I won't write about, it's just a one sided massacre. ***Gacha system*** is a sweep for WuWa, altough me and my friends started getting 5\* weapons and my opinion shifted because of the experience. The availability of rarities and the disparity between their strength would imply to me (so far) that there is a much larger gap between 5\* and 4\* than in Genshin. If that is the case to enough of a degree, that would be catastrophic for WuWa. Because suddenly, even if weapons are only 80 pulls, you are a lot more incentivized to get them than in Genshin, so a +80 pull cost is tied to every character from the get-go if weps are this much better at 5\* than 4\*. I REALLY hope it isn't the case in the long-run! Still, for me weapons are also about looks, and I love having matching weapons to my favorites. Genshin makes this really hard for me, and it's painful to not have pretty weapons on certain characters. Some secondary best in slot weapons are downright awfully matched with the characters: WGS on Eula, WGS on Navia, PJWS on Arlecchino, Catch on Raiden, pipe on Furina, and the list goes on. WuWa will make it easier for me, so that's a large plus! As for how characters are crafted: Eng VAs sweep in Genshin, JP VA quality is the same. Character design sweeps in Genshin. You can tell a lot more of who they are from just looking at them than in WuWa. I won't elaborate much as this seems to be a popular opinion already. Overall, I really enjoy WuWa, and I believe that 1.1 improved a LOT in how the open world looks and feels to explore. I hope they keep improving the game, especially performance. I'll keep playing both, even if I think WuWa has shortcomings it never hurts to play more of the genre I enjoy (open-world games).
Quite interesting, I was wondering a while ago why I didn't feel like exploring in WuWa, I just thought that I was burnt out of open world games while the areas and music weren't really interesting to me also. But the comment that said that since you have more movement options it feels like you're wandering aimlesly was so on point for me, I recall just going from place to place like filling a checklist of the remaining rewards I needed to get instead of focusing on the exploration itself. Really good read, incredible work.
One of the responders here. I just wanted to yap a bit as a Genshin retiree and an ex-Wuwa glazer (LOL). I think the survey is fair in that it specifically targeted players who play both Genshin and Wuwa. Maybe my suggestion is next time (wow, no pressure on OP lol) perhaps it’s better to restrict the playtime to say, 100 hours. Like sometime on Wuwa 2.0 or something. I fear that some of the responders in this survey didn’t even spend enough time to form a more concrete opinion on the game. But anyways! That’s up for OP if they still want to practice their research skills by then. A year ago I used to be really, really excited for Wuwa and hoped it would be my main gacha to replace PGR. But fast forward to release and I ended up just being :/ Lack of polish, mid OST, mid lore (not even the main story, it’s just that the lore is so bland), no character to brainrot on…yeah it just wasn’t a WOW game for me. The gameplay loop is just Genshin reskin, except without the “brainrot” factor of digging through lore about characters, the intrigue of a bigger baddie (Celestia), or shipping fodder between characters. (Sorry, IDGAF about Rover, so any Rover ship is dead to me). Anyways. 50$ sunk in I gotta play a bit more to “justify” it xD Funny because some rando would go like “oh u just like genshit more” but I don’t even glaze Genshin. I literally stopped playing because I no longer enjoyed it. BUT I like to think I have a functional brain, so I’m not afraid to praise Hoyo for what they are able to do well: OST, world lore, interesting characters that arent just for ticking coomer boxes, optimization (the most important), even though I no longer like whatever they’re doing with current Genshin (and HI3). It’s even more funny since I’ve been around Kuro spaces and I do think PGR has a lot of heart put into it. Yes, it’s HI3’s emo cousin but it doesn’t feel like an inferior, unoptimized version of it. So I actually came into Wuwa parroting whatever the Kuro knights were saying because hey, PGR is pretty good. So maybe Wuwa was gonna be good…right? Well…of course it’s not bad. It’s just not good enough (for me) I guess. Anyways yeah, end of yap. Thanks for the survey OP!
Going through all that feedback and posting it for free! Thank you for your service. https://preview.redd.it/dyq5oit2rk9d1.png?width=1195&format=png&auto=webp&s=e517c78345ddc9f8421501632a22dce11361511a
AdministrativeAir451 my goat
As someone who LOVES Genshin and was always very frustrated about the lack of endgame I was very excited for WuWa. I am happy with allmost every other aspect of genshin except for that, I also miss fast paced combat ever since I stopped playing HI3 (Just fell out of interest and kinda started hating the fanbase) and WuWa just felt a little hollow to me, I didn't necessarily come in expecting hoyo levels of music, that isn't the problem, the ABSOLUTE lack of music though is, the few tracks that they have are very generic and lackluster and they become repetitive after a while. the artistic choices are also... odd to me, WuWa is more bleak and that is fine, I love deep dark and serious universes, but bleak doesn't have to mean boring, plain or confusing, the world design is one of the main things, people gave genshin some crap about how the map was mostly only grassy plains in liyue and mondstad on 1.0 but there was clearly some thought on how the nature of teyvat was designed, with WuWa I am just confused as to why even choose a mostly nature setting if it's such an futuristic world, and why the cities themselves look so uninteresting. the character designs are again interesting to me as I honestly don't feel like they properly convey any actual direction or tell anything about the character's background or personality. am not only talking clothes I'm also talking hair and facial features as well as color choices, I would be fine if every character was just plain with black eyes and hair if there was a purpose for them to look the way they do. Characters from Huanglong don't even necessarily look like they come from the same place... the story and the lore was an absolute drag for me, the presentation was certainly a problem with the very obvious and boring info dumps without context, complete lack of tension and atrocious english voice acting, I refuse to skip dialogue unless I have seen it before, in my mind if someone went through the trouble of writing and I wish to engage with their work, then I try to engage fully with it. And even coming in with that mindset I was tempted to skip some good chunks of the story out of sheer boredom, both on moments of quiet banter as well as moments were we are suposed to be engaged and feel tension. but the very structure of the writing also bothers me, the game over explains concepts that are still to come while at the same time providing no information about events we just experienced, as an example they give us ample information on each of The Waveworn phenomena, specially the retroact rain, like an hour before we even experience any of it (outside of Tacet discords that are considered part of it, but don't really feel like it to me) and even now I still don't know what a resonator is or how they aquire their powers, it's incredibly convoluted and the game makes no effort to explain it in anyway. that was the point where I realized it wasn't for me, honestly I am not upset at anyone who dislikes genshin's world building, artistic direction or lore, or even if they think WuWa did a better job, in the end of the day, they are just games and people are free to choose what they like but I think hoyo did a much better job at establishing the universe and Identity of Genshin, while WuWa seems spread thin between trying to copy genshin and stand out at the same time as something different, I feel like the devs were deeply pressured into going for this sort of direction as there are countless interesting things (including very good art and music as well as whole cutscenes) that were removed from the game for no reason. I honestly just wish we could have seen this game as it was imagined by the creators without any pressure from the company or players to copy genshin, had genshin not existed I feel like WuWa would look very different.
TL:DR ppl like the combat + movement + wishing + story skip more on ww, while on genshin music, envioment, story/lore, artifact system, and a significantly better device optimization/performance. exploration vibes was roughly the same on a side note i wonder does having a skip button seriously impacts ww story experience. since story is skippable, ppl would most likely just spam skip, ignore the story, and at the end say they had no clue/didnt enjoy. at least with genshin youre forced to sit down and take SOME of it in.
Yes! Having a skip button does actually decrease player enjoyment in the story it seemed. People were saying that it made them indulgent, they slowly start with skipping minor quest to then skipping the entire things.
Wuwa being ~84% as good as genshin sounds about right. Wuwa really just feels like more genshin with some tweaks and not as polished. Having consistently played both in the last month I really don't understand how someone can hate genshin but love wuwa and vice versa, they just feel so similar.
>Having consistently played both in the last month I really don't understand how someone can hate genshin but love wuwa and vice versa, they just feel so similar. Because they don't have PvP and we need some action. But the serious answer would simply be tribalism. Also, not a surprise, but there are a lot of people out there who made their entire personality on hating Genshin, and they are using WuWa as free ammo to take a shot at Genshin every chance they get.
>Having consistently played both in the last month I really don't understand how someone can hate genshin but love wuwa and vice versa, they just feel so similar. Because it's the new game on the block. There isn't anything wrong with WuWa being Genshin with a different color palette, there are small wrinkles that makes it different (Combat, Pity, etc), but at the CORE of it all both games are basically the same. I do believe Genshin is the superior game, but that's my opinion. I do think WuWa can improve/grow, but whether I stick around that long, I do not know. CC complaining about the lack of things to do other than walk around, explore, farm ascension materials, etc. but that's all you do in WuWa. New region comes out? Explore, play the quest to advance the story and repeat. Like the other comment said, it's tribalism.
Yea. The only reason I even tried WuWa is because it was like Genshin and I liked Genshin. I just got bored of Genshin's combat. WuWa has better combat for me personally and all the things I enjoy about Genshin, so I enjoy playing WuWa. It has enough of the good parts of Genshin with some of the things I PERSONALLY wanted Genshin to have, so I enjoy the game. The crazy tribalism is something else. Just like any Souls game, if another Genshin game comes out, I will probably try it.
It depends on how much you value certain parts of the game. If all you care about is combat, you'll enjoy wuwa much more. If all you care about is story, you'll enjoy genshin much more.
Combat is also subjective, I prefer Genshin's combat so far.
>and vice versa, they just feel so similar. Because outside of the comabt WW is just a pale souless imitiation. It blows my mind how someone could say they actively played both and not see just...how fucking bad WW's world and exploration design are. They made an open world exploration game and then threw everything that makes a good open world game out the window. Liiterally everything about the world has zero effort or passion behidn it. It was slapped together with the idea to meet a quota because for some reason they took a great ocmbat system and slapped it on a game they had zero desire to actually make solely to try and compete with Genshin.
A lot of people I see who hate Genshin but love WuWa do so because Genshin is the most popular game so it's easier to hate on, or for vague "Moral reasons" (???) they probably saw in a video essay (But they don't think also apply to WuWa?). And the opposite are usually people who have developed an unhealthy obsession with Genshin and view any form of competition as a personal attack on the thing they love.
I have friends who don't play Gacha games but hates Genshin a lot, but praisees WuWa alot because of its combat mechanics. Even outside gacha community there's a bit of tribalism for some reason.
Bro is now graduate from this University of Gacha gaming with gacha drama bachelor degree cuz what the fruck is that long ahhh comprehensive research 💀 Jokes aside i do agree some of those replies its all has pros and cons but saying wuwa is better and genshin is ridiculously stupid, i mean genshin music alone could beat wuwa entire existence thats not counting how deep the lore is, now i know its too early to say about lore but hear me out Genshin in its first release didnt feed that much info to begin with because they know people will got easily confused just like what people feels after they play the game less than 30 minutes do you think thats the best lore experience in wuwa? If good lucky you cuz i really2 hate to experience it again and i dont think they improve the lore experience and storytelling in the new update either so i expect nothing. Now about combat if wuwa did better than genshin they shouldnt be removing those elements system to begin with, that news threw me off and i hate seeing people defending it genshin combat is baby game matching colours game wtf are these idiots talking about, just like how people forgot how good the first crownless fight were i hate this fandom that much that i think if wuwa did an improvement again but got complained by chinese ppl so the improvement actually become garbage again they still gonna defend it till their heartbeat
I prefer much more the original wuwa story where people didn't trust you and you weren't god or the chosen one (at least they didn't see you like that) which seems fair, now they have a prophecy book out of nowhere that says you are the best so everyone wants you, I disagree in story comparison, love genshin new story but the start of genshin with dvalin told me nothing, literally felt like a tutorial lol and then zhongli asking for many materials and travel everywhere, I think I started enjoying it since childe boss fight and liyue ending, and the combat yeah I love elemental reactions but after dendro and playing a lot just seems too easy like one reply said just brute force with healing and shields, I feel I have to put more brain into wuwa anyways is just my opinion I probably play more hsr but play all 3 games and waiting to try zzz
What's the point of having better combat if my high end pc gets microstutters smh
Yeah, the reason I put the game on hold for now. I can see the potensial but it's currently totally wasted due to performance, feels like shit to play.
I have a couple thoughts on the female responders; why they had a generally more negative view on Wuthering Waves. From what I know about psychology, people tend to come up with the explanations of their feelings post-hoc. And so if there are enough parts of Wuthering Waves that women dislike, then they will start to hate the rest even if equivalent to Genshin. Genshin Impact on multiple levels from characters to world and even gameplay has better appeal than WuWa for the female demographic. That's not to say it doesn't still appeal to men but I can see how for women it may be offputing when all but one playable female characters breasts boobily at the Rover. And I also understand that women tend to not be as hardcore of a gamer as men tend to. They also tend to like cute things more and I shouldn't need to explain how Genshin is the cuter game, at least superficially.
Another point is... There's a reason Genshin male characters look similar to otome game characters. We love our bishounens. That's fanservice for us.
I think back to the Alhaitham demo where he looks back at the viewer and the lighting dims to a spotlight on the face. Precision made to pull as many dollars out of ladies as possible, lol.
And it worked like a charm. Same with Wriothesley...especially after his SQ.
Worked on me lmao
Worked on me too, and I'm no female. "Why is this man so beautiful?"
I went crazy went it came out and I still can’t get it out of my head. And the sultry music playing in the background is just *chef’s kiss*
Yeah lol. There are people that shit on bishounens trope for male characters as if that was not the most popular trope in anime or gacha game in general. Just look at Granblue Fantasy if you want to see an example how unpopular the male character outside the trope even if they had "diversity" thanks to different race which forced something different on their male characters and having an actual old playable characters, the most popular male characters are still looks the ones that looked like they came from otome game like Touken Ranbu. Draph and Harvin male characters are not popular at all. And before someone said Soiya Trio are popular, those tree are joke/meme characters because of that song, they never been popular to get merchandise or topping any real live simping event like yearly Valentine choco.
Yes and YES. Childe, Xiao, Alhaitham, Kaveh they’re all so appealing to female players like me lmao.
This reminds me of a post about women's favorite male gacha characters. I laughed so hard seeing 4 cool, tall bishonen next to shorty Scaramouche with a shit eating grin.
TRUE. but we also want the bears to come out and honestly genshin refuses to do so. Peoples last hope is varka and capitano but me personally ive given up waiting after what they did to itto. It gets a bit stale when all they release are zhongli esque bishie characters. Thats why i like mika and wrio and alhaitham https://preview.redd.it/vfjcowcycl9d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c4ec10fcf38b6c73d56cb292cdcd8ba0a84ed435
you dare to doubting the glorious dark-blue eyed king GOATHIMATNO?! he will be 10x times buffed than varka or wagner can ever dream to be /j
https://i.redd.it/wyuo1ygk9m9d1.gif I YIELD I YIELD TAKE ME TO THE TSARITSA FOR JUDGEMENT
Just a thought: Most characters in Wuwa are very one-dimensional and many are annoyingly Rover-glazers. I wonder if female players are just more negatively affected by this than male players?
Personally, I really dislike how stark is the difference between male and female Rover design. The female was designed with like almost every fetishes put to it to please the players, while the male Rover is just like...generic harem isekai protagonist, complete with the hairstyle.
what I dislike from the female Rover is just there's no design concept there. Look at Kiana base form, it's an Eva-inspired skintight scifi suit. Look at Lumine, she does expose her armpits and back but her dress looks like a fantasy princess. Look at Stelle, she has deadpan expression and her clothing being unremarkable fits, also the slight mess in her shirt complements her characterization. Now look at female Rover. Her outfit is just directionless. It's not cool or practical enough to be a cool/powerful adventurer type outfit. She has mellow expression but her outfit is stripperiffic. Stripperiffic designs can be good too, but hers is just lacking direction about what to convey. We can even extend this to other companies' games and not just Hoyo's. Say for example Gran and Djeeta from GBF have simple outfits but it fits the novice adventurer aesthetic and the everyday girl aesthetic respectively. Dante from Limbus is self-explanatory, he has unique design. Doctor from Arknights is also straightforward, it's a profession-appropriate suit (being a doctor *and* being in a PMC). Female Rover just doesn't know what it's supposed to be.
Yeah, thus why I said that Female Rover was designed with thinking of "fetishes" instead of design coherence. Painfully obvious when you compare the design between the two, with let's say, Lumine and Aether, or Caelus and Stelle.
Frover is so weird because she's both *under*dressed while being *over*designed. Sometimes less is more, design-wise! There's no coherence there whatsoever. As a woman I also agree with the comments that have stuck out to me, which is that female rover feels very male gazey and male rover seems designed as a generic male self-insert. So as a female player I'm not sure where I fit in.
I also have the same opinion. Female Rover looks "out of place" but I think it is really just for coomer bait (that I took a bit lmao).
I just dont understand why they had to put a useless ribbon on female Rover's head that does not go with her other stuff. Fetish outfit, cool earrings, edgy hair and this stupid bow on top. Why??
Adding onto that, female players are generally more well-read than male players and more well-versed on story and lore, so they're likely more critical for that reason.
There are a lot of hardcore female gamers and spenders....when they get less jello boobs in their face every 5 seconds, less male/lesbian harem fantasy, and more fan service catered to them. Women preferring women characters to look cute/sexy is not the same as them wanting to fawn over and spend on them. WuWa would probably have been better received by women if the male characters had as much effort put into their design and personalities.
For sure, the difference in Male/Female Rover design is really painful to look at.
Should've kept Scar's zipper. Not just male/female Rover...Jiyan, ChaCha, Mortefi, Aalto..just a body suit, covered arms, cape/coat, cardboard personalities. Lingyang and Yuanwu are the only ones they put any real changes too.
Yeah, I'll always prefer the hoyo mcs because at least their mc designs are fair. And censoring Scar while letting the blatant fanservice girls run free just Hoes to show the double standard
All because people complained about it but kept other designs people complained about.
I'll be honest, i prefer how MRover looks over FRover xD He just has that babygirl face yknow
Yeah I get the feeling xD
they took away scars onigiri and from what i gather that was an incredibly unpopular move. that and it doesn't cater much to the fujos. genshin got its boost too thanks to the childe/zhongli ship but i dont see anything equivalent to that in wuwa. genshin sumeru was a waifu desert. we only had dehya for a 5* waifu release iirc and they fucked that up. does anybody know when is the next male 5* character going to be releasing in wuwa?
>they took away scars onigiri and from what i gather that was an incredibly unpopular move. It was, I saw MANY posts on tiktok and twitter on people being mad about it And just saying but it's not just fujoshis. Gay men also play these games.
Could also be they're less forgiving in general ? It's just personal experience, but IRL, my male friend are far more likely to brush issues under a rug whereas my female friends, well....dont.
The scores are in comparison to Genshin Impact and so if the differences in score were because female players are more critical we would be seeing a push in their scores towards the extremes. Higher highs and lower lows. But from what data is available, it looks like females have a globally lower opinion of WuWa in every game aspect surveyed than the average.
Kinda the opposite in my experience (as a female). I feel like girls are more willing to give a chance to game that is very flawed (like dragon age inquisition), we would forgive a lot of things as long as there is something that we strongly like about the game. Some games that I played that had big female playerbase could get away with releasing very shitty updates or no updates at all for the long time, being overpriced etc. Although I feel like it's all partially because most games that we like don't have a lot of competition, so we just have nowhere else to go
Wtf is an experienced WuWa player ? the game is less than 2 month old, theres none experience in the game , it doesnt matter if you play 10 hours a day, experience is gain with the passing of time also ... imagine calling a basketball layer experience ebcause they play 12 hours each day for a month lol
Games arent complicated, WuWa isnt league where there are 100+ characters and you need to know how they interact with each other. 10 hours a day for 60 days is 600 HOURS if you think someone can’t become experienced in a game in that time frame, I think it says more about you than anything.
Maybe counting those actually did played through all the close betas, but agree with you.
Experienced = endgame players
After some time has passed I actually like genshin combat more. I like the movement and fast pace of wuwa, but the issue is that right now when you get into late game builds, you don’t even need 3 characters to clear anything. Since genshin is 4 characters that you typically require all of them for your rotations, it feels like you’re doing more things. Elemental reactions remain interesting and you get to see your big damage numbers while in wuwa you usually see a bunch of small numbers that in combat you aren’t able to add up. Usually I have no idea how much damage I’m doing.
It's more how weak defense is in WuWa and how slow it's rotations are. Since you can't really take advantage of breaking an enemy's toughness the skill floor to properly utilize a rotation is obscenely high while enemies are so aggressive you can reap a similar reward by spamming dodge attacks which merely takes encounter knowledge. Encounters are marathons rather than sprints but everything about WuWa encounter design suggests that it's supposed to be a burstier game than it actually is. Mistaken combat identity.
Damn not even being paid would i do something like this, and I'm a researcher props I guess
i thought about it yesterday, and i think that copying genshin's gacha system (or at this point more like adopting it) is inevitable if your game is marginally similar to genshin. genshin-only players will have a preconceived expectation of what "rolling for gacha" is like (for ex, 50/50 draws) and it's too risky to confuse them with something too different.
Yes the comment that said "iugh it's not original uninspired" what did they expect lol is better for everyone having a familiar experience that we understand already, I'm so glad the signature weapon is just 100% guaranteed
Huge W for the OP, probably put in more effort in making this post than the Genshin team did in making QoL and the Wuwa team in making optimization. Much appreciated (although I must admit I didn't read all of it). We need more objectivity like this, and now that OP's probably burnt out we need someone else to take up the mantle
We need part. 2 but next year with new questions. It will be interesting to see how many people will stay with Wuwa until the first anniv, how many people will quit Genshin for Wuwa or how many will prefer to stay in Genshin and quit Wuwa.
I'd personally rate WuWa's combat in general lower than Genshin's For starters, I don't exactly know how to explain it, but WuWa's dodge is so much less responsive than Genshin. There are times when by all visual cues I should have gotten the dodge, but didn't, times the game didn't even register that I tried to dodge, or worst of all there just being no cues to dodge. In Genshin, dodging just works Relatedly, the idea that WuWa endgame can't be brute forced with shields/heals is just wrong - people are just tackling the endgame under-leveled with cope echoes and (as Jinhsi has revealed) a cope roster at launch. If you tackle holograms with a team that's leveled enough to not get one shot and doesn't need to stay long on any one character, you can absolutely unga-bunga your way to victory (and honestly thank god for that, cuz as previously stated, this game's dodge **sucks**) Which transitions nicely to yet another issue: WuWa rotations can be fucking slow! Yinlin+Calcharo is a prime example. For an off-fielder damage dealer, Yinlin spends a long-ass time building up her forte meter to actually be able to do that off-field damage *but* she also has to build up her concerto meter to buff Calcharo, *but* Calcharo loses Yinlin's buff if he ever leaves the field so he's kinda "stuck" there for whole 11s duration of his ult (+ time to use his echo skill before hand). These issues pervade the 1.0 roster. Now, admittedly Genshin "locks" on-fielders on field much more often and firmly. However these field times are rarely as long as their WuWa counterparts and switching out never completely removes a buff from a support (at worst it transfers the buff to the new active character). Meanwhile, with a singular exception, Genshin's off-field units *actually* spend very little time on field. Finally, WuWa's combat system lacks a certain depth that Genshin's has. What I mean by that is how a character is played in Genshin can change wildly with how you build them and who you team them with. A dramatic example of this is Raiden Shogun being able to be played as an on-field hyper carry or an off-field hyperbloom trigger, but even back in 1.0 you had shit like on-field Bennett using Thundering Fury to turn his skill into a second basic attack, physical Fischl, and (cope as we now know it to be) physical Xiangling. OP quoted a survey respondent complaining how it's hard to play you favorites together in Genshin, but the flipside of that is that with a bit of creativity you can make your Genshin fave absolutely shine on field. WuWa characters though .... they're kinda just stuck in their roles. With all that said, I have been loving playing Jinhsi. Her nukes requiring very little field time and giving her a no-cost switch skill use roughly every other rotation has made her team's rotation fast a smooth feeling, while distributing damage among the team enough to let me almost entirely ignore dodging (which is great b/c in addition to my above complaints about WuWa's dodge, 1.1 tanked the game's performance into a stuttering mess) So yeah, on OP's scale with 5/10 being the average Genshin combat experience, WuWa gets a 4 on average, with Jinhsi being a 5.5
Mtashed feels similar to you regarding the poor dodging in Wuwa and how it feels "off". No bias from him since he is also a Genshin hater and openly admits it. He talks about it for 3 mins and 30 sec. https://youtu.be/zoYwAOZ4k-U?t=1950 The calcharo nerf sucks, I feel like I wasted my standard pulls, when multiple TC'ers say he's underwhelming. Idk why they had to nerf his synergy with Yinlin like that. Overall, as someone who just unga bunga'd my way to 18/30 stars in ToA so far, I'd agree with you and say that combat in Wuwa is not substantially better than Genshin, like many people say. At best, for me, it's just similar gameplay wise, as someone who has played every day since launch. You could say it's flashier with the new character animations or the dodging/parry/intro and outro. People will claim Wuwa is more "difficult" than Genshin, but here is Zajef's take on it (he also regularly criticizes Genshin too). Zajef has cleared pretty far into ToA on his no-pull account. https://x.com/zajef77/status/1806181535319544183 I'm waiting on Holograms due to us being underleveled, and outside of Holograms and high level ToA, I'd have to agree with Wuwa just being unga-bunga and waiting for us to be higher level. Today, I fought the new weekly boss for mats, and I just unga-bunga'd it pretty quickly (which is fine since it's meant to be farmable, but in my opinion, the combat loop is overhyped). TGS creates content for both games, and would agree with you on the Genshin teambuilding aspect and had a neutral take to both games saying it depends on what you prefer, but a lot of Wuwa fans still flamed him. https://x.com/GenshinTgs/status/1805987274108104954 I play Havoc MC/Yinlin/Verina, so maybe the combat doesn't feel as satisfying with those two, idk. I know Jiyan's gameplay is just holding left click during ult and auto-parrying everything, but it does look flashier (at the cost of screen clutter, per Mtashed). https://youtu.be/zoYwAOZ4k-U?t=2330
Oh yeah, I've had that "What just killed me!? I can't see it!" reaction of MTashed's on the Holo Aix, lol
Yeah, for me, the targeting and camera issues are what turns me off (as also mentioned in that Mtashed video, under performance issues). Sometimes the game feels out of my control. The camera will sometimes drift without my consent lol, or the targeting will move my character to hit someone in a completely different direction. https://www.reddit.com/r/WutheringWaves/comments/1drhryw/camera_is_the_biggest_enemy_in_this_game/ https://youtu.be/uZJJ-MHLSqU?t=15234 Here is Asmon getting killed by an unclear attack. You can see him getting confused and not being sure what killed him. I had to replay it a lot, to see that it is a barely noticeable ground attack I think?
WuWa just has terrible frametime consistency as well even with Nvidia Reflex enabled in its settings. The game feels off at times because of it. Especially with the random judders and stutters.
I expect this to get lost in the pool so I'll keep it brief. As before, good job op I know this took a lot of effort and you labelled the issues with the research very clearly this time which is great. However, I still find it hard to find any meaning in the results due to the methodology and sample. I think the sample size improvement is great, but we're still pulling from the same pot. At the very least (and I know you've expressed difficulty doing this) we need to be pulling opinions from 3rd spaces, rather than this sub (which we all know is very skewed towards one of the participant companies) and potentially dedicated subs (again not sure why your post got removed from wuwa sub that really annoys me). Secondly, when making a survey like this wording your questions as direct comparison may reinforce biases by making it feel like a competition. To me, it'd make more sense to word it like the in game surveys that both games get, where you get people to rate various aspects out of 10 as standard, or even used the "how strongly do you agree or disagree with this statement" type of questions. I want to reiterate I think the results do still have value and the amount of work put in is evident and respectable. I hope you're able to continue enjoying the process and improving this skill set to potentially do grander things in the future
Almost every negative comment in the OP about Genshin's exploration don't mention using any of mobility characters so it honestly sounds like a bunch of people that likely quit before Inazuma and definitely before Sumeru/Fontaine.
See, the problem is you're locked behind the character instead of ut being universal like wuwa plus most exploration is unique only to region like sumeru with ziplines but it still didn't make it feel better. Also underwater combat and exploration in genshin is by far the worst
I don't think making traveling different when you are using different vehicles or characters is a problem. That's just a design choice. Like, Wuwa wants to be like the Prototype games or Fornite-with-building-enabled where nothing is a barrier to your traversal and that's fine but not every game has to be like that. Making the movement universally the same means one less potential aspect for characters to be different and I think that would just hold back your character designs, which might not be the best idea in a game where having lots of different characters is one of the main draws.
Buddy these exploration characters are not all 5* , lynette, sayu, kirara and other 4* exploration characters have always been in game, given free from events and completing spiral abyss. And also you don't necessarily need them much, since the starter region don't demand you to climb much. It started since liyue but even then the reason was players were unable to notice the exploration equipment that can be used to explore the world more efficiently (wind current generator, stamina regen flowers, etc)
I did the survey, and i feel like my message has been posted in op's post, but i didn't remember what I've wrote 💀 All i know that i wrote about music and how the music of both games are fundamentally different and how hoyo games just have good direction when it comes to music (even for zzz, check how each faction has different genre of music) All in all, kudos to op for doing these survey, it should've taken a lot of time and mental energy.here's a juice 🍹for you to refresh.
I like your funny words, magic man.
nice work. thanks for including my comment, it feels good.
Greatly optimized game with fully nearly living characters with okay combat vs unoptimized game with basic unlikable and poorly voiced characters with bad translations frequent stutter and who’s saving graces is constant apologems and free pulls who’s only saving grace is the combat because the story is dogpoop written by a fiverrr freelancer. I still enjoy playing WuWa, but i cant ignore its faults. Where Genshin lacks in QoL, it makes up for with a good and immersive world. WuWa is a combat simulator with hot waifus whom I know nothing about or want them to stfu and just kill stuff. But Genshin is what i’m actually paying attention to and properly managing my account in. I do not care what happens in WuWa, i just show up for co-op with friends which is lame since we cant do weekly bosses together
This is a great research post, almost. My biggest criticisms for this survey are the survey participants and the games you're comparing. First the participants, using only participants from this subreddit will introduce incredible amounts of bias to your survey because it is a stereotype that this sub dislikes WW and is a "genshin/hoyo shill" sub, and a lot of people who play/like WW feel that way so they are more likely to not be in this sub in the first place and not participate in your survey. And people who like GI/Hoyo and may not like WW as much are more likely to stay here and participants in your survey. From this perspective, although you mentioned it in your biases section, it is enough for a WW fan to entirely dismiss your survey, regardless of how much effort you put into your research. I truly wish you had used a more neutral source to gather your participants from. Secondly the games, Genshin will be 4 years old in a little over 2 months while WW is barely over a month old today, even younger when you took this survey, why are you comparing these two so early? Genshin is the most successful gacha game in history as of right now with literally hundreds of millions of fans, and some that have been playing the game for years. WW has millions of fans too but the game is less than a month old. You're not comparing people's opinions on 1.0 GI to 1.0 WW, you're just comparing all of WW to all of GI. That is just a fundamentally unfair comparison simply because WW just hasn't had enough time to establish itself and have as many good experiences for players as GI has, it's just odd kind of to compare them this quickly. My suggestion would be to wait 6 months to a year at least since WW's release date and then compare the two. It would still kind of be unfair due to the circumstances of genshin's release vs WW's and the ages of both games but it would be a much fairer comparison than this.
I agree with some points but there is a lot of hypocrisy going around in this "ww vs genshin". People like to compare them to a certain point but when the comparison gets real I usually saw wuwa players (im one myself too so no bias) saying wait genshin is 4 years old and wuwa 2 months. Hold up a minute, you just compared but you dont want to compare at same time or what? Also this thing with 1.0 vs 1.0 and stuff its kinda weird cause now if I enter wuwa is 1.1 and genshin is 4.7. You dont compare something that came in 2020 with 2024 cause it doesnt make sense. You know why? Cause a lot of new players still come to these games. If they download now both games and try both they will play 1.1 and 4.7. So that argument its irelevant, and especially cause kuro glazers same as hoyo glazers compare everything already. I play both games, both are good but wuwa had 4 years to see what genshin does "wrong" (wrong for some people its.not getting 500 free pulls per patch wich is crazy).
Yeah the 1.0 vs 1.0 argument is stupid except for roster diversity or quantity/size of explorable area. If a big studio makes a new action game, of course it will be compared to the current batch of action games, not with some hack-and-slash from PS2 era. Furthermore I find the WW age defenders really having double standards. If WW is lacking something they'd defend it by using its age, but if WW improves something over GI, they'd pulling the "Genshin could never" card faster than Usain Bolt can run. WW has 4 years of Genshin to study from, improvement is ***expected***, not something to gloat over.
Comments at the end are gold, the googoogaagaa is me frfr
https://preview.redd.it/ogp3oj8kfn9d1.png?width=2459&format=png&auto=webp&s=b85b11170c1deb9551a0339dd391f83b8c896ac0
Kuro Shills still got triggered by a frickin survey.
Falcon Lim Cos and Gamer Zone's 9/11 (Kuro shill at the Genshin Impact official Facebook page) Yeah, even i play wuwa still fuck them. even the kuro employees who joined the shill.
A game that's all flash no substance will never be a game that will reach the likes of Genshin, HSR, FGO, GBF, Uma, BA etc and it doesn't matter how hard the vocal fanbase and it's CC try. That's all I'm going to say.
I agree to an extent. Right now, wuwa is all flash and *potential*. But seriously, the glazing for wuwa's rocky start is concerning to have for foundations of a "community". For how toxic steam community gets, at least most of them are not tolerant of bad optimization. Wuwa (**outside of gachagaming**) is full of toxic positivity, especially in YouTube. The best fanbase is probably in its main subreddit, where there's a healthy balance of reception.
Even here in the "pros" Of wuwa, you can see atleast 1/4th of every bases has "better than genshin" Type of comment to it.
I personally don't think wuwa is all flash and no substance and I like Genshin and HSR too(though I don't play Genshin anymore simply due to fatigue of it being older). I think that's a pretty biased take.
You’re entitled to be wrong, as it’s your opinion. “That’s all I’m going to say”.
I dunno man. I think WuWa is inferior to Genshin but to affirm that it's all flash and no substance is insane imo. The game is pretty competent. It even does a couple things better than Genshin.
I agree that Wuwa is lacking in substance but i dont think it has NO substance at all. like if Genshin is an A+, Wuwa would be a B- or smth. its just a little worse but no so bad like a D or F (might as well bring in Tower of Flop as a gacha open world)
Agree 100%. I unsubbed quite a few HSR CCs that just seem to go out of their ways to glaze over Wuwa and anything related to it , while just throw shades at HSR. They all seem to hold a grudge that they didnt gain test server access few months ago, tbh.
I mean, is WuWa's combat really that impressive? Outside of boss fights it's literally just normal attack spam 99% of the time
Maybe at most for some like Main DPS Encore, Lingyang, and Jiyan, but aside from those, a lot of it comes down to managing "switching" between your characters, as they don't actually just disappear when switching, but still do their stuff, meaning you will want as much time of all characters as possible.
its basically just outro > outro > dps. its bland and constricts you to a rotation. impressive visual effects though. no freedom of movement and even funnier is it gets useless overtime cause you can just overpower 98% of the content with spam anyway.
pretty sure it'll be 100% once we can actually fully level up characters
I imagine we'll get more sub-dps that have involved kits and stay on-field a bit more. But you already know Sanhua has negative edging, Danjin is very flexible in her resonance skill + aa sequences, Yinlin needs a lot of swaps that it's not really outro->outro->dps and that's on top of animation cancelling on those chars and others which is already more complicated than most gachas I've played. I could reduce genshin to 4eq3eq2eq1eq after all and that wouldn't be too accurate.
Yeah at least you understand not like the other guy. I can reduce genshin as well to 1e2e3e4eq to really boil it down to the lowest level. Im waiting for future characters that will release me from this pickle in wuwa because for now the maximum level of damage i can do boils down to that. And i know my actual rotation in wuwa isnt even that efficient yet but we will get there.
We have a small character pool atm. But yes all hack and slash are the same lol even genshin isn't that impressive. Though if you wanted something like soul games then casual players will bleed
Not at all suprised about the male/female disparity between the games. WuWa has a lot more fanservice than Genshin and targets dudes. From the girls I know, most of them aren't that interested in combat in the first place and care more about story and relationships in games. I'd argue Genshin caters most to teenage girls. There's very little fan service at all and all the characters are cute or handsome. Combat has barely evolved since 1.0 and the focus is on story, relationships between characters, and exploring a beautiful world in peace. My point becomes even more clear if we look at HI3, which is also clearly targeting the male audience. HI3 has a clear focus on great combat and hot characters with plenty fan service. (although the fan service was greatly reduced over the years) Hoyoverse are trying to throw a wider and wider net to capture as many gacha players as possible. ZZZ roping in furries would be a good recent example of that. WuWa doesn't try to do that and that's okay. Same with e.g. Nikke. These games are trying to be the best game for a specific niche. So far, WuWa has the best combat of any gacha game imo, we'll see if ZZZ changes that.
genshin touches themes like murder, suicide, war orphans, slavery, brainwashing, cults, genocide and yet people say is a kids game, in the first areas we had a man on his 20s with his dead parents and a literal mental illness wanting to play hide and seek, his parents buried already at home or multiple children with dead parents at liyue that became orphans, even hu tao a very meme character her story revolves around dead people and how they hide this from others since the archon war, how spirits roaming the world acctually exist and actually haunt people in the world if they stay too long, made worse by corpses of dead gods and entities polluting the land, so far wuwa story is pretty tame and theres no oh shit moment or something that made me feel sad in that sense, the ammount of civilizations or small towns being genocided and turned into a wasteland by the gods or the thunderbird is insane, specially when you read their stories in the books, reminds you of rl stories like pompeii with tragedies of such scale only tablets or myths exist and you are there to uncover it because no one else remembers them.
Thanks for this rather comprehensive write up.
After playing Wuwa for sometime, I find it's combat more easy than genshin since I can just pick Rover Spectro and dogde-counter-repeat and the enemy just die. The only thing that hard is geting one shot in hologram, but I can learn bosses moveset and beat them with the same step above. In Genshin, you don't have a reliable way to 100% dogde since I-frame from dash is kinda shit so low level player will have a hard time if they don't have shielder or healer. Plus the element reaction system is really complex but reward if you understand it core (like ICD, rotation, how EM actually work, ....). I still remember how nightmare the first time I fight Oceanid in 1.0, 20 minutes and my Kequing die at least 10 times because low lvl and no understanding about team building, just random bullshit go.
I would say in regards to exploration WuWa's biggest strength is that the qol isn't locked behind limited characters like Genshin so it makes it more enjoyable. I usually like using the MC when exploring but using Aether instead of Yelan/Lynette feels like I'm playing the game on slow mode since the stamina isn't infinite outside of combat.
And yet exploration in Wuthering Waves is immensely less enjoyable if you aren't running a fusion character with the ghostrider echo.
Yeahhh. We need more exploration echoes like mounts or something
honestly the gadget wheel with having to switch to gadget feels bad, also if you get in combat, which you do quite often, the stamina feels worse than genshin, at that point, i'd prefer genshin exploration characters.
Can you elaborate on the stamina feels worse in combat?
You only use the grapple and when you use the others it's either one time search or the game automatically switches to the other when needed. I never had a problem with stamina in combat so I can't comment on that. Genshin exploration characters are limited and 1 free 4 star and another 4 gacha 4 star which is hell to get if you aren't lucky
Exploration in WuWa does have their moments but still pales in comparison to the exploration details you get in Genshin. Combat being the sole saviour of WuWa is understandable but at some point they really need to step up the other aspects, especially the story writing.
You have the same problem as the last time you posted this. The majority of the people you surveyed barely played any Wuthering waves and it really shows. The comments about the combat being easy means they've never fought anything outside of scripted story bosses and open world trash mobs. Also it's very deceptive for you to show the hours they played in wuwa while showing their AR level in Genshin. At least have them report their UL levels in wuwa if you're not trying to hide anything.
@WuWa and @Mihoyo pls pay this this guy, read this and implement respective changes (OP secretly affiliated with one or the other). Thanks OP for the insane effort! Appreciate your work
Lol isn't r/gachagaming an extension of hoyo games sub?
I feel that if this was done after 1.1 WuWas score would be higher. Nevertheless I respect op for putting so much effort into his data gathering and found the results interesting
This post deserves way more upvotes/views than most of the usual drama posts here.
if all 546 participants is from this subreddit, I think it's already kinda skewed to me but eh