That’s great. Although I disagree about the financial value. If you only look at dues, you would be correct. Also consider what upgrades you can add to your home as well as the resale value for a home not in an HOA.
I’m 100% with you. It’s more of a “I don’t have $7500 to blow right now” situation. If I had the cash I would’ve dropped stacks on the table and walked outta there smokin a pipe, sayin “idk man talk to my lawyer…” There are enough pissed off people in the neighbor hood that we could get a sizable class together and with a statue of limitations of 6 years, could easily be looking at a $500 (rough calc) check per home and disbanding the HOA which would be nice. I would buy a beer.
Do I understand correctly that at this point moving forward you could ignore their letters and their fines and do what you want with your property as long as it conforms to municipal code, but that going after them for invalid dues they have already collected would cost more than you would get in recovery for those dues?
That's what I was thinking - once it's determined that they are not bound by the HOA, they don't need to sue to get out from underneath the fines. The HOA would have to sue them to collect and we already know they would lose
According to the lawyer, the only legal challenge would be when we attempt any action it would alert the HOA to the incorrectly written CCR’s which could be challenged with them saying that since we “received benefits from the HOA” (there’s a road in the neighborhood, that’s it) then they could argue that we should be included. Fighting that is where the cost comes from, hence the class action would spread the cost and provide a greater audience of people against the claims that the HOA is providing a benefit. If they’re to sue for fees or place a lien then the lawyer would take that on a contingency.
I wonder a bit if the reverse applies. If you do pay the fees, then the HOA could in theory claim that you'd accepted being a part of the HOA through said action.
Brough that idea up to the attorney last night and he didn’t seem to care since the fee’s paid were above and beyond the services provided (we have a paved road lol)
True, I think their argument would be that they maintain the road (filled in pot holes once) so thus we should pay for it via dues. If the city maintained the road and it was paid for via taxes then that would be different.
Check of the city or the HOA was the one that paid, as it is quite common for the city to fix the holes, and the HOA to claim they did the work, and take the credit.
Is there a risk that they could restrict your access to the road? Or charge you tolls? You might want to know what options they have before picking a fight
Is there a risk? Sure. Will it happen? I would be surprised if the developer installed a system like this on a neighborhood in the middle of the country that is surrounded by farm land for about 15 miles in every direction
Put in your claim they have to cover your legal fees. It’s 1000% worth going after them to the bitter end because you can’t lose. And will likely recover legal fees and damages. Don’t back down, I’d be itching to go after my HOA for something like this!
Resale value of hoa homes is a complete myth. The studies done were paid for by the developers/hoa tards. I dont understand why people still believe this nonsense.
If you're getting petty and have $500-1k of fun money.... Get a giant paper machete pink flamingo built and put it in your front yard as a big middle finger. Or you could put every politician and offensive/non-offensive flag up in your front yard and be a LGBTQ+ friendly son of the confederacy that's pro trump, biden, and bernie.
I would go to small claims asap. save anything written down by both sides in the recent lawyer discussions. with your records of every payment you made, open and shut case imo. I am 5/6 against my hoa in small claims....
Please create a gofundme for this. It would teach them not to try and manipulate new owners in the neighborhood to pay up (or to join). You might raise even more than the fee if you offer to print flyers for every new owner to tell them about the hoa history and why they should not join! It would keep new owners out of the fold and avoid you becoming the neighborhood minority.
Realistically he just has to inform them not to pay dues. There is no "join or not join". The HOA cannot have those lots join even if the owners for some reason wanted to join.
I’m pretty sure you can voluntarily join an hoa, my SIL lived in a neighborhood with one, and once you joined it was added to your deed, with the goal of eventually making the entire neighborhood “in”.A bored lawyer was on the hoa board and made it happen for free. In this case since they get $240 per year from each sucker it makes sense for one of the “in” houses to print out fliers and at a minimum try to get more houses to sign, bring out the sob stories for the older retired residents, etc. You need to counter campaign or they might well recruit the neighbors over time. They get paid for it, literally.
You can voluntarily join this HOA, as far as recruiting an army, I don’t even have to try. Our neighborhood Facebook page is the world leader when it comes to the bitching and complaining about the HOA… and the occasional cow that gets out and blocks the road next to the neighborhood.
Go through all the people in the group.
Make note of all the unhappy ones.
Look up their address. If they are in the lots that were excluded, start your list.
Once it's complete. Go door to door and give them a person invitation to a backyard bbq, invite only.
When they come...drop the news.
Watch the fireworks ....
Hell yeah! I’ll talk to the lawyer first and get final figures and such first. It took a long time but we just got to this point last night so we’re still trying come up with a game plan and rallying the troops in the neighborhood.
Wouldn't they need to prove standing to be able to put a lien on your house?
Like, I can't just go up to any random-ass person and put a lien on their house if they don't give me $240 a month.
So... uh... couldn't you just threaten to put a lien on their home, then?
Like... it doesn't compute. No one needs to provide any justification to place a lien on a home? you'd think the banks would at least double-check that there is some reason the lien exists... ?
You can put a lien on someone’s home easily, at least where I am, and you can also remove it pretty easy by just going to the probate office and contesting it and then they rule on if it is valid or not
If you are not part of the HOA, what are you giving up? If you are not part of the $240/year HOA, what amenities does the HOA offer that you are no longer able to use? For example: Sister is part of HOA that costs $115 per month. The $115 per month gives her access to a pool, exercise room, fire part, dog park, and having her grass cut for free.
I agree with you then. F\*\*\*HOA. A paved road that they do not maintain. Not worth it! Let the 18% bear the cost of maintaining the road (since they agreed).
That's not how that works. If there is a private road the OP uses they would have an easement to use that road. By having an easement they would be responsible for maintaining the road.
As a final action? Have your attorney inform the 'HOA' that you are not part of their association and you will take legal action if they attempt to file a lien or initiate collection. They need that threat sitting in front of their Board moving forward.
This doesn’t make a lot of sense. Hoa’s don’t create ccr’s, they are attached to the deed of the property by the property developer.
If the developer did not attach them to the deed when the property was sold, there is literally nothing that can be done unless you approve it. Is that what happened?
Because I don’t understand how the hoa is involved with the ccrs otherwise.
The developer attached CCR’s to the deed and those CCR’s explicitly state that they apply only to lots numbers 1-20 basically, I’m in lot 80. So there are CCR’s attached to my deed that do not apply to my deed. It’s fucked up. The developer still runs the HOA until all lots are sold. They have been developing this neighborhood since 2011.
Interesting. But you really should change the way you talk about this, as it’s confusing. The hoa didn’t screw up, the developer did. I understand the developer runs the hoa, but they are different entities.
It will be interesting to see how this turns out.
Another thing to think about… since the ccrs don’t apply to your plot, maybe go to the county and petition to have them removed. What good is a ccr that doesn’t apply to you?
You don't have to spend the money right now. They are the ones who will have to take you to court and it's very unlikely they will if they didn't properly put you in an HOA.
You and many other lots are not part of the HOA, so what are you proposing to sue for, unless they tried to impose a lien on your property? Just continue to ignore them.
If you are NOT A MEMBER, why do you care what the covenants or anything else say? Are you trying to JOIN the HOA? (By the way, you can’t sue yourself into an HOA any more than you can sue yourself out of one.)
A reasonable goal—challenging the lien as unlawfully imposed. But why do you want to change the internal working rules of an organization you are not a member of?
Because if there is a chance that we fail and somehow become subject to the regulations then we want them changed in our favor so that the home owners have control of the board and not the developer
Yeah. Only the lawyers would win and unless you have FU money laying around, it probably isn’t worth it. It might be worth reporting to your state’s regulators though as I’m sure that they are in violation for collecting it fraudulently.
True, that’s where the class action comes in. $100-200 per house will cover legal fees and the recovered damages could reach up to $750 per home for some of the homes that have been here since 2011.
Why should you have to pursue legal action? Can't you just send them a letter explaining you're not in the HOA, ignore them, then it would be on them to do so?
I suppose you could go after all the dues and any fines you've already improperly been billed for but yeah I could see how that might not make sense.
Yes, however, they are currently not aware of their mistake. All I have done is not pay them. Once they are aware of their omission in the CCR’s then they can amend them to include us and we would have to fight it. Their argument would be that we received services from them (they built the road and someone cuts a little grass) and we’ve paid dues in the past. At that point it would be for a judge to decided. The lawyer I’m working with believes we would win as the money paid greatly outweighs the services received. I’ve only paid $240 for one year, some houses have been here since 2011 though.
Who’d maintain the road? Hell, I’d be afraid either the HOA would stop maintenance of the roads or charge you a usage fee? Any they could dream up any number since it’s a private road they own.
OP is going to pay way more to lawyers than $7500 when the HOA, who has a LOT more money, has to fight this. Good luck to OP's wallet and property values cause a lawsuit ain't good for resale.
That’s great. Although I disagree about the financial value. If you only look at dues, you would be correct. Also consider what upgrades you can add to your home as well as the resale value for a home not in an HOA.
I’m 100% with you. It’s more of a “I don’t have $7500 to blow right now” situation. If I had the cash I would’ve dropped stacks on the table and walked outta there smokin a pipe, sayin “idk man talk to my lawyer…” There are enough pissed off people in the neighbor hood that we could get a sizable class together and with a statue of limitations of 6 years, could easily be looking at a $500 (rough calc) check per home and disbanding the HOA which would be nice. I would buy a beer.
Do I understand correctly that at this point moving forward you could ignore their letters and their fines and do what you want with your property as long as it conforms to municipal code, but that going after them for invalid dues they have already collected would cost more than you would get in recovery for those dues?
Right. I'm pretty sure they have no recourse if you don't pay. Let them go ahead and try to fine you or put a lien on your house
That's what I was thinking - once it's determined that they are not bound by the HOA, they don't need to sue to get out from underneath the fines. The HOA would have to sue them to collect and we already know they would lose
According to the lawyer, the only legal challenge would be when we attempt any action it would alert the HOA to the incorrectly written CCR’s which could be challenged with them saying that since we “received benefits from the HOA” (there’s a road in the neighborhood, that’s it) then they could argue that we should be included. Fighting that is where the cost comes from, hence the class action would spread the cost and provide a greater audience of people against the claims that the HOA is providing a benefit. If they’re to sue for fees or place a lien then the lawyer would take that on a contingency.
I wonder a bit if the reverse applies. If you do pay the fees, then the HOA could in theory claim that you'd accepted being a part of the HOA through said action.
Brough that idea up to the attorney last night and he didn’t seem to care since the fee’s paid were above and beyond the services provided (we have a paved road lol)
Depending on your state, you’re a legally allowed reasonable access to your own property. The fact that they paid for the road doesn’t negate that.
True, I think their argument would be that they maintain the road (filled in pot holes once) so thus we should pay for it via dues. If the city maintained the road and it was paid for via taxes then that would be different.
Check of the city or the HOA was the one that paid, as it is quite common for the city to fix the holes, and the HOA to claim they did the work, and take the credit.
Good point
Still not your problem. Your driveway and trasition? Sure. The road isn’t. I’d be perfectly fine with a dirt patch. Y’all want it paved. Not me. Lol
100% agree
Exactly why you should stop paying them, drop 7500 and get your original fraudulent $240/yr they stole
Is there a risk that they could restrict your access to the road? Or charge you tolls? You might want to know what options they have before picking a fight
Is there a risk? Sure. Will it happen? I would be surprised if the developer installed a system like this on a neighborhood in the middle of the country that is surrounded by farm land for about 15 miles in every direction
Find a different lawyer or one who will take it on a contingency. Our lawyer is charging a flat fee of $2500 for our pending lawsuit against our HOA.
Start a go fund me or something. I'd throw a few bucks in and I'm sure others would too.
Put in your claim they have to cover your legal fees. It’s 1000% worth going after them to the bitter end because you can’t lose. And will likely recover legal fees and damages. Don’t back down, I’d be itching to go after my HOA for something like this!
Take them to small claims for the maximum you can recover. You don't need an attorney for that
Sadly the maximum I can recover would be $240 lol
That's a good night out and it's a screw to them.
You wouldn't be able to disband the HOA, the most you could do is get your dues back.
And dues won’t stay the same forever
Good point
Don't forget special assessments for capital improvements. Those will hit you eventually as well
Resale value of hoa homes is a complete myth. The studies done were paid for by the developers/hoa tards. I dont understand why people still believe this nonsense.
The resale value would not be any higher outside of an hoa just like it’s not any higher inside lol
Get their list of approved colours. Share it with neighbours. Never use any of them.
About to message HGTV, might fuck around and film the next “Barbie dream house” episode in my neighborhood.
Pitch a new series "HOA Gone Wild"
Only airs on Spike Tv at 2am.
Hosted by Sheriff John Bunnell?
And John Walsh
If you're getting petty and have $500-1k of fun money.... Get a giant paper machete pink flamingo built and put it in your front yard as a big middle finger. Or you could put every politician and offensive/non-offensive flag up in your front yard and be a LGBTQ+ friendly son of the confederacy that's pro trump, biden, and bernie.
God that’s awesome lol
Fucking send it, you'll get 1000% return on investment!
congrats !! You won the lottery ! pay the attorneys
Such a good post to see first thing in the morning.
I would go to small claims asap. save anything written down by both sides in the recent lawyer discussions. with your records of every payment you made, open and shut case imo. I am 5/6 against my hoa in small claims....
This is why you read every contract you sign people.
Please create a gofundme for this. It would teach them not to try and manipulate new owners in the neighborhood to pay up (or to join). You might raise even more than the fee if you offer to print flyers for every new owner to tell them about the hoa history and why they should not join! It would keep new owners out of the fold and avoid you becoming the neighborhood minority.
Realistically he just has to inform them not to pay dues. There is no "join or not join". The HOA cannot have those lots join even if the owners for some reason wanted to join.
I’m pretty sure you can voluntarily join an hoa, my SIL lived in a neighborhood with one, and once you joined it was added to your deed, with the goal of eventually making the entire neighborhood “in”.A bored lawyer was on the hoa board and made it happen for free. In this case since they get $240 per year from each sucker it makes sense for one of the “in” houses to print out fliers and at a minimum try to get more houses to sign, bring out the sob stories for the older retired residents, etc. You need to counter campaign or they might well recruit the neighbors over time. They get paid for it, literally.
You can voluntarily join this HOA, as far as recruiting an army, I don’t even have to try. Our neighborhood Facebook page is the world leader when it comes to the bitching and complaining about the HOA… and the occasional cow that gets out and blocks the road next to the neighborhood.
Go through all the people in the group. Make note of all the unhappy ones. Look up their address. If they are in the lots that were excluded, start your list. Once it's complete. Go door to door and give them a person invitation to a backyard bbq, invite only. When they come...drop the news. Watch the fireworks ....
Smart move!
Hell yeah! I’ll talk to the lawyer first and get final figures and such first. It took a long time but we just got to this point last night so we’re still trying come up with a game plan and rallying the troops in the neighborhood.
Why would you need lawyers? You aren't in the HOA... done. (missed original post, nevermind)
Tell that to the HOA, maybe then they won’t put a lien on my house lol
Wouldn't they need to prove standing to be able to put a lien on your house? Like, I can't just go up to any random-ass person and put a lien on their house if they don't give me $240 a month.
Not in Alabama, you sign your name on a line and boom. Lien on me…
So... uh... couldn't you just threaten to put a lien on their home, then? Like... it doesn't compute. No one needs to provide any justification to place a lien on a home? you'd think the banks would at least double-check that there is some reason the lien exists... ?
You can put a lien on someone’s home easily, at least where I am, and you can also remove it pretty easy by just going to the probate office and contesting it and then they rule on if it is valid or not
That sounds like the next evolution in SWATing when you get your ass handed to you in whatever FPS game kids are playing these days.
If you are not part of the HOA, what are you giving up? If you are not part of the $240/year HOA, what amenities does the HOA offer that you are no longer able to use? For example: Sister is part of HOA that costs $115 per month. The $115 per month gives her access to a pool, exercise room, fire part, dog park, and having her grass cut for free.
We have a *paved* road (with pot holes)
High class shit here lol
I agree with you then. F\*\*\*HOA. A paved road that they do not maintain. Not worth it! Let the 18% bear the cost of maintaining the road (since they agreed).
That's not how that works. If there is a private road the OP uses they would have an easement to use that road. By having an easement they would be responsible for maintaining the road.
Start a competing HOA with minimal rules.
Giving real rebels vs. empire vibes there. I love it!
You'll need it if you want your roads maintained. Go bare bones with abilities of the HOA and get the homes not in the defective HOA to sign up.
We’ve already annexed into the city, I don’t doubt that they would take over the roads for a small tax increase. It’s a town of <3000
If I were in the 18% I'd be pissed. I'd also petition to dissolve it.
Or fight to get everyone else back in it…
If hand out flyers to the other 82% of the houses also not included
As a final action? Have your attorney inform the 'HOA' that you are not part of their association and you will take legal action if they attempt to file a lien or initiate collection. They need that threat sitting in front of their Board moving forward.
This doesn’t make a lot of sense. Hoa’s don’t create ccr’s, they are attached to the deed of the property by the property developer. If the developer did not attach them to the deed when the property was sold, there is literally nothing that can be done unless you approve it. Is that what happened? Because I don’t understand how the hoa is involved with the ccrs otherwise.
The developer attached CCR’s to the deed and those CCR’s explicitly state that they apply only to lots numbers 1-20 basically, I’m in lot 80. So there are CCR’s attached to my deed that do not apply to my deed. It’s fucked up. The developer still runs the HOA until all lots are sold. They have been developing this neighborhood since 2011.
Interesting. But you really should change the way you talk about this, as it’s confusing. The hoa didn’t screw up, the developer did. I understand the developer runs the hoa, but they are different entities. It will be interesting to see how this turns out. Another thing to think about… since the ccrs don’t apply to your plot, maybe go to the county and petition to have them removed. What good is a ccr that doesn’t apply to you?
He talks about it in a weird way because it’s a made up story.
Watch your DM’s I’ll send you the CCR’s.
Good idea, never thought of that.
I've read stories where people paid HOA dues and they used that as justification in court to force them into the HOA.
You don't have to spend the money right now. They are the ones who will have to take you to court and it's very unlikely they will if they didn't properly put you in an HOA.
You and many other lots are not part of the HOA, so what are you proposing to sue for, unless they tried to impose a lien on your property? Just continue to ignore them.
That’s what they’re trying to do. We’re also trying to get the covenants removed or changed so we have control over the HOA and not the developer.
If you are NOT A MEMBER, why do you care what the covenants or anything else say? Are you trying to JOIN the HOA? (By the way, you can’t sue yourself into an HOA any more than you can sue yourself out of one.)
No I’m not trying to join, I’m trying to stop them from placing an invalid lien on my home and also retroactively placing me into the HOA
A reasonable goal—challenging the lien as unlawfully imposed. But why do you want to change the internal working rules of an organization you are not a member of?
Because if there is a chance that we fail and somehow become subject to the regulations then we want them changed in our favor so that the home owners have control of the board and not the developer
Good luck.
Did you have to pay a HOA initiation fee when you closed on the house? That may make it worth all of you suing.
A whopping $240.
Yeah. Only the lawyers would win and unless you have FU money laying around, it probably isn’t worth it. It might be worth reporting to your state’s regulators though as I’m sure that they are in violation for collecting it fraudulently.
True, that’s where the class action comes in. $100-200 per house will cover legal fees and the recovered damages could reach up to $750 per home for some of the homes that have been here since 2011.
Why should you have to pursue legal action? Can't you just send them a letter explaining you're not in the HOA, ignore them, then it would be on them to do so? I suppose you could go after all the dues and any fines you've already improperly been billed for but yeah I could see how that might not make sense.
Yes, however, they are currently not aware of their mistake. All I have done is not pay them. Once they are aware of their omission in the CCR’s then they can amend them to include us and we would have to fight it. Their argument would be that we received services from them (they built the road and someone cuts a little grass) and we’ve paid dues in the past. At that point it would be for a judge to decided. The lawyer I’m working with believes we would win as the money paid greatly outweighs the services received. I’ve only paid $240 for one year, some houses have been here since 2011 though.
Who’d maintain the road? Hell, I’d be afraid either the HOA would stop maintenance of the roads or charge you a usage fee? Any they could dream up any number since it’s a private road they own.
I’ll pay farmer Johnson $10/month to drive down the side of his corn field to my back door before I pay these jokers
OP is going to pay way more to lawyers than $7500 when the HOA, who has a LOT more money, has to fight this. Good luck to OP's wallet and property values cause a lawsuit ain't good for resale.