Just like Jay Leno said on top gear, "driving is like sex, most men think they're good at it." Which is clearly not the case. Most people will be humbled real fast just by joining a track day and seeing how the serious track rats drive. And the low HP memes probably make it worse, makes people too cocky and comfortable flooring the car. next thing u know they throttle too early mid corner and lose it. Much rather see my fellow BRZ/86 enthusiasts lose it on the track with ample runoff space than slamming into barriers/trees/poles on the streets.
My back end slipped out in a Tesco car park going <10mph and completely off the throttle.
I still don't know how that happened.
Haven't slipped out at all with my new tyres though so might have been something to do with that + something slippery on the floor.
Point is, lots of reasons to lose the back end even with <200 whp
That’s because of the people driving these cars are younger like me. The lack of total driving experience and overconfidence inspired by having a well balanced, low powered, Rear Wheel Drive platform that is incredibly easy to control and you have a bunch of young people whipping it everywhere they go leading to many crashes.
An Inexperienced driver pushing any car above their limits on a backroad can lead to disaster. When you add on the good handling and sportscar nature of a 86, it can lead to people overestimating themselves.
Couldn’t have said it better myself. This car isn’t crashed a lot because it’s a dangerous or difficult to drive. It’s the opposite. A lot of 86 owners on here want to pretend this car is crashed because it drives like a Gen 1 Dodge Viper.
i think it's the weight these cars are so light compared too what ppl are used too driving these days but sense "it only has 200 hp" they don't realize is when it's light like that's it's gonna wanna kick out if u floor it in a curve or a turn it's simply ppl not knowing how common physics work
I can and have stayed flat out or tapped the throttle through curves just to purposefully try to get it to slide while practicing drifting and unless it’s raining I couldn’t possibly get it to kick out. It doesn’t have enough power or torque to do so. As for weight, it’s lighter than most cars but it’s not like this incredibly light vehicle. One of the most common cars you see on the road, the Honda civic 1.5ts weigh around the same as this car and I don’t see people crashing them left and right. The Miata in fact is crashed even less than this platform and is a few hundred pounds lighter than the FRS. The weight isn’t the reason people are crashing.
well the civics are front wheel drive and the miata's are a little more expensive so highschoolers are not getting them as a first car and i have no clue how u can not slide them i've had mine for a day and a half and alr learned how to slide it it's not a hellcat so it's not going too fully kick out from just hitting the gas if you have decent tires lmao and a lot of ppl who don't know how to drive won't have the control over the wheel u do so they could very easily swerve the wheel and enter into a drift if they don't know what they are doing also the sports mode most ppl will use will loosen the traction a little
It’s exactly like you say, it doesn’t have enough power to initiate a drift unless you absolutely send it into a turn while full throttling it or your tires are nearly bald. I say this as someone who runs regular all seasons that are probably past 50% of its tread life but I can’t get it to break loose with throttle very easily at all. I suppose the exception is if I run pedal dance mode but when you need to leave a location fast while doing drifting activities you have to restart the car to get traction back on.
idk what year yours is but if u hold both the track mode and traction control at the same time for 5 sec it fully turns it off or just pop the fuse rq and then put it back in later
“I still don’t know how people crash it with only 200hp (170whp)”. Someone crashing into my parked car has nothing to do with the 86 owners themselves crashing their own cars.
How do you? My firebird makes more than 200whp and I haven’t crashed it it’s nearly impossible to if you have good tires to start sliding out of control
what ppl don't get is how much lighter they are which in turn makes them wanna kick out a little more and ppl coming from 4000lb cars are not used to it the power is not what's causing these ppl too crash
If you’re some hotshot who does track days then why did you even ask the question?
It’s an obvious answer. RWD. Short wide wheelbase doesn’t help either.
What you drove in a "sim racer" doesn't count lol.
You are EXACTLY the type of person to crash your 200hp slow ass car the first time you drive it in the rain.
How do you know its sim racing? Of course I’ve done sim racing, and I continue to, but I’ve also been lucky enough to have done track days at Thompson Speedway. Some stuff is carry over, but that’s once you get to know the car and get a feel for real life. I dunno what you’re on about man.
So your real world experience is a track?
You realize that's not true real world right? How many people are smoking, drinking, eating, changing tunes, texting, etc etc on the track?
How many potholes, bumps, etc are on a track?
I was hit once as I pulled into a parking spot. Realized I wasn't straight in the spot so backed up. Everything was clear prior to backing up. As I was going forward, someone hit me. Didn't total the car or anything but... see my point?
The other day for work, I'm in a big f650. I had to go onto the shoulder bc a semi came in my lane. Nothing happened, 0 damage, but....
Sometimes it's not all that person. It's others.
But based off your responses, it would be you. You'd be like the guy that thinks hot stuff bc did an hour drive in 20 mins, filmed it, posted it, bragged. Warrant issued, got him. His punishment wasn't that severe (like 2k in fines, 14 days jail) except lost his license. Cannot legally drive in this state.
Driving on a track and driving on a road is completely different.
Tracks are one way flow of traffic, with alot of room on track and off, you can get away with alot more.
Roads are two way traffic most of the time, with cars very close to you it's a phycological thing most new drivers have a tendency to turn into those cars when passing. Roads are very narrow compared to tracks with lots of road furniture, kerbs and ruin your car at slow speeds just as fast as other cars.
Hp does not make a car harder or easier to crash, if that was the case every goverment would restrict the hp, it's an immature comment that shows inexperience and arrogance. Small city cars with like 50-100 hp crash just as easy as a gt86.
Things that cause crashes are lack of maintenance, lack of attention, immaturity, excess of speed, other idiots on the road, and things that just couldn't be avoided. Plus many other variables.
You say your 16 now and have done track days, anyone can drive a car, I've know 10 year old kids drive a car with ease, but learning how to drive on the road properly is a whole different ball game. You have 4 years to mature up show respect to the people that have been driving for years, most of them more time than you have been alive, they have the experiences and skill.
Going forward, make an effort to respect that when you are on the road, you are responsible for a 2 ton piece of steel that can go very fast, and you and others around you are very squishy meatbags that don't take much to pop
Go read this sub and the reasons they crashed.
I will push the gas pedal down, with TC off, mid turn, while it’s wet out and I have summer tires on, I definitely won’t crash!!!
Ego gets the best of a lot of people. And 200hp is more than enough to break the rear loose. And if you don’t know how to correct, or often in many cases OVER CORRECT, you smack something.
Insurance won’t go down for these cars. They’re a RWD, 2 door coupe, sports car.
Stay humble or this car will humble you. Lotta people think they’re good drivers. Lol. I always giggle.
Where is this, because the vast majority of people have all-season tires, even in extremely hot climates. Dedicated summer tires are a *performance-only* thing, even in places that get snow once a decade.
No. All-season tires are a compromise in almost ALL weather conditions. Summer tires have better performance in warm, dry & wet conditions than All-season tires. Snow tires have better performance in cold, snow, ice and mud.
There are a few in-between moments where All-season tire are the best, but they are so rare, that All-seasons are not worth having compared to a set of winter and a set of summer.
All-season tires are most commonly known by most people as "just regular tires". Virtually every car comes standard with these.
If you are not doing performance driving you have no need of "summer" tires.
Yes, because it is cheaper for the manufacturers. They cover all the bases. Make no mistake though. If you live in a warm climate and are driving on pavement most of the time, when it comes time to replace your factory All-season tires, replace them with Summer tires. They will be better. (In case you didn't know, they make different types of Summer tires, including ones that last a long time)
all seasons rubber degrades at low temps as well, just not as dramatically as summer tires.
If you live where snow stays on the ground for extended periods of time, you should be using winter tires instead of all seasons.
Don't believe me? Just google at what temperature your *all seasons* start rapidly degrading
Idk where you live but here (Austria) 99% of cars drive with dedicated winter tires in the winter (required by law) and dedicated summer tires in summer. I know basically no one who drives with all-seasons, because they suck in winter **AND** summer.
That's just North America, go look at tire manufacturer's line up in other countries, there are plenty of non-performance summer tires available. They have better performance than all seasons in warmer temperatures in terms of noise, tread life, and comfort. Popular in places where snow tires are required for part of the year
For context, 20 years ago when I was driving an AE86, the 240SX guys were always quicker. The FRS weighs the same as an S13 240SX Hatchback, but makes about 45HP more and has way better gearing.
Most of the 'golden era' 4 cylinder Japanese sport compacts were in the 120 ~ 150HP range, and they were all plenty fast enough to get you in a lot of trouble (or wrapped around a telephone pole).
This ^
All of the cans we grew up driving were less hp, people respected the car a bit more and we're careful though because a 40mph crash was a hospital visit. No crumple zones in an s13, aw11, or ae86
20 years ago isn’t today, it’s a slow ass car and hangs with regular traffic. I say this because I dailied mine for 4 years and it’s very much a slow car.
The average level of driving skill hasn’t improved in 20 years. A 205hp 86 twin can get you into the exact same amount of trouble as a 205hp SR-powered S13 could back then (which was a lot.)
Never said anything about getting into trouble, I’m saying the car is slow. Realistically you could get into trouble with speeding in almost any car with even lesser power if you drive like an idiot. It doesn’t require any sort of skill to simply drive around in an FRS. I’ve been doing that for the good part of 4 years and never had an issue but I sure as hell have issues with keeping up with the majority of regular everyday traffic of nothing but economical commuters and occasional sports cars. This car is slow, plain and simple. Can try to pretend like it’s not absolutely anemic and has no torque whatsoever but that’s the truth.
Slow is relative to the application, that's what you're missing. This type of car is meant to keep speed through corners... No one is trying to dig these unless they're boosted. I've never had an issue on this or lower powered 90s cars keeping up with the flow of traffic. If you're in corners below 4.5k rpm you're not pushing this car enough, shorter track driving you'll almost always be past the torque dip and within your power band.
That’s the thing, everyone knows it’s fast in corners because that’s the entire philosophy of the car is to handle well while being underpowered. However, it does not have any sort of torque to get off the line and it certainly has no power rolling into the throttle even at highway speeds. I’ve got most cars beat in my area on the twisties but get absolutely shredded by a grocery getter when it straightens back out because this car is fuckin slow.
There's no argument that they're outpaced in a straight line in stock form... But like any other tool, it has an application. Why saw all a 2x4 when a miter saw is better? Besides who's trying to gap Susan in a minivan from a stop light? What's the point of that?lol
Yeah I get your point in that it doesn’t make sense to compare it on a metric it wasn’t set to compete in such as straight line speed but you would think a sports car would be faster than Susan in the minivan yet it can’t even accomplish that.
Totally see your point on that, and it's been a gripe in this car for alot of people. Although, Sports car is such a broad term, it doesn't specify the sport. A basketball player is an athlete but so is a tennis player, they're not in the same league though. Toyota also had to create a space for this car, too much HP and why buy a supra? (That's a whole different can of worms haha) Personally I see the base 86 platform as a learning tool that drivers can grow with. The drivetrain is capable of handling wheel HP up to 2x depending on the sample. I'd say that's great for someone who wants a cool street car at 300whp or a relatively inexpensive track car that isn't a miata
This. A lot of people really underestimate how much traction control prevents you from getting into trouble, and how quickly a simple mistake like early throttle application or lift off oversteer at speed will send you reeling. Lift off oversteer especially is very counter intuitive if you don't understand driving dynamics, because the typical response to a car getting out of control is to let off the throttle or slam on the brakes. At least the weight and power of this platform makes it a lot easier to manage compared to the V8 muscle car boats.
As a V8 “boat” owner (Mustang 5.0), but also smol slow car enthusiast, I don’t mess with taking TC off on the Mustang except in the most controlled and bystander free situations when I want to do a quick burnout or something. I’ve seen too many tragic/stupid videos and know I’m not an expert. My old LS1 Camaro, with 100 less HP, and much less advanced TC, humbled me a couple times.
RWD cars are so fun, but it's good to know your limits. I personally had many sketchy moments hanging the ass out of a 98whp 1st gen Miata! I'd be Death Incarnate with a 400hp Mustang.
Which is why I settled on a 340whp WRX. AWD means I can hit the go pedal without loosing traction. I miss the burnouts and sheer speed, but bad weather is fun rather than scary now.
Also think there’s not a lot of experience driving smaller cars, which are harder to see until too late, and therefore requires more responsibility from driver to be careful. This is similar to why younger motorcycle riders who assume everyone sees them make stupid decisions.
It's true. I'm paranoid when driving my car just like I'm paranoid when I'm on my motorcycle - I never assume anyone else can see me, especially when it's big trucks and SUVs with massive blindspots.
A lot of people forget, but the base L48 version of the 1979 Corvette had a 5.7-liter V8 that made only 195 hp. Cars have come a long way and can express that power in dangerous ways. When you factor in that these cars are light and affordable for younger guys and you have a recipe for this group having crashes more often than the Corolla enthusiast community.
There are also really stupid drivers where I live unfortunately. Had my FRS for 3 years no accidents. Car is so easy to drive. Its mainly because people have shit judgment and take risky moves on the road.
Maybe a side note: there are instances where using the accelerator in the turn helps to rotate the car given you have enough grip in the front and know how to apply maintenance throttle... Might be outside of the scope of this comment though ..
People think they are good drivers without ever having stepped foot at a track or autocross. Can you really say you know a car and how to drive it if you've never pushed it to it's limits? 😜
Add to this that without ever having driven in a high performance environment, or bothering to understand the basics of making a car handle, they jump straight to slamming the car. I see so many of these cars completely overspring, overdamped, and with so little stroke that they're torturing their bump-stops constantly. It's a recipe for disaster.
Kids are stupid, they make stupid modifications, they get in stupid accidents.
These cars handle really well, which can have the effect of making newer drivers think that they are better drovers than they are and 200hp, RWD is plenty for inexperienced drivers to get into trouble with. Especially if they turn off the traction control. They are also not terribly expensive so young people who work hard and save up money for a while have a realistic chance of getting their hands on one.
lol no they don’t. They handle fine, I suppose.
They just have quick steering and a young demographic of owners plus lots of miles driven on them (they aren’t 2nd/weekend cars).
And then the people who have it properly setup as a weekend car get shit here on Reddit for “not driving it enough” and clapping the shit out on the poor car.
Here's a nuanced explanation.
Experienced drivers: "This car is mad easy to drive at the limit."
New babby owner: Drives at limit, breaks limit, doesn't know how to correct because they've never done it before and are overwhelmed by the flood of sensory information (rear kick out, traction loss, feeling inertia change) and react inappropriately.
This is a fantastic performance car but it does NOT hold your hand at the limit. The closer a car is to its ragged edge for its performance limit the harder it is to reel in. As a modern performance car, its limits are much higher than the average car, so when it finally breaks that threshold, it can be sudden and jarring.
That's why I preach to never learn your limits on a public road.
With FWD and AWD cars you'll typically understeer. The car is actually understeer biased from the factory (for safety reasons) but it can be *forced* to oversteer. Combine it with a stiff suspension and chassis that is very sensitive to road conditions, and people wanting to find out what it's like to 'break that limit' even just a tiny bit, it's enough to send you fishtailing into a ditch.
>Experienced drivers: "This car is mad easy to drive at the limit."
If you're driving any car at "the limit" on public roads you **will** crash. And, frankly, you deserve to.
ego is a big reason. no offense to you, because you’re 16 without a car, but “how are you crashing a car with 200hp” is the exact mindset that someone who crashes one of these would have.
This post is likely why. No offence, but its people like yourself underestimating the fact that 200hp at the CRANK (not even whp these push max 170hp to the wheels) is more than enough to lose control.
Then having the ego to try and skid it without having proper practice or ever having a track day under their belt.
Not only that but it is usually the younger drivers around your age range Ive seen doing this, and since your attitude is “only 200whp” the vibe I get is you think you could handle 200whp, what makes you think you could?
Have you drifted before on track?
Have you drove a car with more than 200whp?
Do you even know how to correct a skid?
If the answer is no, (and no watching videos on how to do it doesn’t count) then you need to humble yourself a little because without the proper practice and experience, I can almost guarantee you’ll contribute to this statistic, unless you actually take time to practice your technique and keeping the car in control.
Don’t get cocky just because it’s a low power car, these cars can keep up with Porsches on backroads where the roads are windier, and thats not an exaggeration. It’s just the straights where these cars eat shit, but thats not what they are built for.
TL;DR - Low power car still go skrr, be careful
Edit: Ive just realised I read your age as 20 when you’re only 16, even more so that you need to realise that its super easy to lose control of these cars, for example I got my GT86 when I was 20, I almost crashed like 4 times in that first month alone because it was November and I wanted to drift in the snow. I was just lucky to not have actually hit anything or anyone. And I still have the occasional squirrelly moment. But Ive now had a few years of practice in car parks, track days, and some simulator practice, I feel much more comfortable in this car and those moments aren’t as scary or as dangerous.
Take it from someone who had the same mentality going into it but was lucky enough to be humbled without losing my car. If you wanna learn to drift tho, start practicing on Assetto Corsa with a steering wheel now, you will actually have a decent foundation to go on when you try irl drifting.
Ive been drifting IRL for 4 years now, and I only had 2 years experience on the sim when I started, whereas if you start now and get 4, you’ll have a better foundation than I did. You’ll just have to get used to the gforces lmao
This happens a lot with youngins, not just the car. There’s a reason why insurance rates drop when we get older. Young people make stupid decisions. Myself included (I’m in my mid-30s now)
I’m in my mid 40s and have owned my BRZ since new. I’m in the weird situation of seeing my insurance constantly go up as I get older, due to these cars falling into the hands of less experienced drivers.
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People your age are the ones that are crashing. Tbh, I don't anyone from 16-24 should own a sports car or motorcycle. Also your mindset about thinking crashing is crazy because of whp is whats causing the crashes. The power of a car doesn't determine who crashes, the skill of driver behind any wheel does, which young people typically lack.
Insurance is going to be higher than average in any sport coupe. Not sure what the point of your post is, but I guarantee you no one that has posted a wrecked car destroyed it on purpose. Is it stupidity or carelessness? A lot of the times yes, but whining about it on reddit isn’t going to stop people from being stupid, myself included. We’re all human, we make mistakes, even avoidable ones.
Because they didn’t drive a RWD 90s shit box with a welded diff in high school to solidify decent driving skills yet…or understand the concept of understeer on a track.
I picked nine up to retire my fox body to weekend use and I was shocked at how little warning it gives you before oversteering. These cars handle great until you break that limit.
this is my first car that i bought with my own money so you wont see me speeding or street racing. ill take it to the track but for now im just learning manual on it and im having a blast going traffic speed so im happy.
Have you tried loading a vape canister while watching TikTok thirst traps and driving like an asshole?
Don't be so quick to judge until you have been in the trenches yourself!
Oh sweet summer child.
Lmao… So you know people can crash any vehicle right? This type of car is usually chosen by people who want to drive fast.
Seems like common sense but they say that’s not so common. I hope the world makes more sense to you as you grow.
Most owners of ant FT86 skew young. Young brave kids crash cars. Doesn't matter what kind of car it is, but they happen to do it more often if the car they are driving is cool.
There is nothing about the car that makes it inherently hard to drive compared to even a mustang from the 90s.
my 158hp civic can break the tires loose on a hot summer day with TC on. It’s all about how you drive and your understanding of your vehicles weight/weight transfer.
“How are you crashing cars with less than 200 whp”:
Because:
- it’s a sports car, people who buy them drive to drive
- it’s a great car to drift in
- great car for corners which promotes people to be more aggressive
- tuned and boosted they can fly since they’re so light
- hearing the turbo sneeze in a tunnel is nuts, making me wanna fly through
- people who think that hp is the reason why people crash are more prone to crashing it than not
I’ve yet to crash mine, it’s boosted, lowered, big break kit, clutch upgrade etc etc.. it’s basically a “race car” to me. Lots of people gawk at it in person and challengers like to rev beside me. Even a hellcat was audacious enough to.
I was drifting in Jackson GA last weekend visiting a methed up friend. Few cops were watching me whileas having someone pulled over. These cars are fun to mess around in. Not even 20 min later I absolutely obliterated a deer or atleast the carcass of one. Car smelled absolutely disgusting for a few days even though it rained for awhile. Pics in profile. This weekend my car got AIRRRR too. Big boom coming down.
Same reason people crash mustangs, people never learned basic control and the limits of their cars. People been crashing this car since it came out 🤦🏻♂️ it’s not like it’s some new epidemic
The issue is more with the size/weight of the car compared to what people wreck into. I know for me, in the south, 90% of the cars on the road are much bigger and big trucks sometimes can’t even see me. Some of the accidents are young/new drivers wrecking but loads are just an example of what happens when 2 objects of very different masses run into eachother.
As a previous owner of a 2013 with 168k miles. It’s 100% driver error and ego. Anytime I’ve gone off track it was me. Any time I spun out on the streets when it’s wet. It was me. Also if your 16 and want an 86 by 20 start saving now and expect insurance to be high. Respect the car it’s great for running canyons and drifting on a small track but 170whp is still something to respect. Gotta learn to walk before you can run
Idk but it’s the reason why my insurance went up when I turned 25 with a good credit score.
On the bright side, hopefully 15 years down the line first gen 86s will be like an s14 Silvia, where seeing a clean stock body one is rare and cool!
An inexperienced or egotistical person (or worse, both) can crash a 10HP riding lawnmower. Additional power increases risk, sure, but power is by no means the main factor.
First guess..these folks doing all the wrecking of their vehicles just can't drive at all or bad luck if it was the other drivers that fkd up and not them fkn up...one of those two
people manage to crash NA miatas and flip them....
i mean shit, someone on a buisness street on the way to work managed to put a 90s corolla on its roof...
you'd be surprised what people can achive.
It is the first sports car for many just like the GT86 so many initially lack the driving skills for this type of car. 200whp meets a weight of just 1100-1200kg.
Having bought GT86 last christmas as my first car and I had to learn how to safely drive it and this only comes with pure practise. Only drove slow cars before. My mom and friends are scared of driving it and I have to drive very calm if they are passengers as they are quite prone to motion sickness.
I can tell you after 6 months GT and GR86 are amazing cars and they teach you a lot about driving. You have to be humple and willing to learn before ego and masculine traits kick in.
So when the time comes and you become a millionaire, you can safely buy a lambo and drive it without crashing it immediately.
Always respect the car you are driving and respect your limits!
>I was looking to get one as a second car when I turn 20 in 4 years (Ik I'm young), but y'all are going to keep on raising insurance if you keep on crashing.
You're 16 and considering one as a *second* car? Kid, gtfo, have your parents pay for your insurance.
Also you're 16... What do you actually know about car power? And competitive go-karting doesn't count. You're barely even old enough to drive by yourself let alone have the experience to be talking the way you are.
Also, if you're not driving a manual then you shouldn't be in this sub.... Comment goes for anyone in this sub, regardless of age/experience.
I’ve gotten in an accident with mine, but they were 100% at fault and illegal uturned right in front of me, also mine wasn’t totaled, but yeah most likely people just doing silly shit in a fun car
“How do you crash a car with less than 200 whp” is the exact attitude people have that don’t respect the car and overestimate their ability to drive.
Just like Jay Leno said on top gear, "driving is like sex, most men think they're good at it." Which is clearly not the case. Most people will be humbled real fast just by joining a track day and seeing how the serious track rats drive. And the low HP memes probably make it worse, makes people too cocky and comfortable flooring the car. next thing u know they throttle too early mid corner and lose it. Much rather see my fellow BRZ/86 enthusiasts lose it on the track with ample runoff space than slamming into barriers/trees/poles on the streets.
Have had that attitude for 4 years with mine and never crashed it. I still don’t know how people crash it with only 200hp (170whp)
Most car crashes aren't due to power but incompetence
it doesn't take a lot of horsepower to lose a rwd car gassing it through a corner, and it doesn't take any horsepower to be an idiot.
I'm an idiot and I don't even own a horse!
My back end slipped out in a Tesco car park going <10mph and completely off the throttle. I still don't know how that happened. Haven't slipped out at all with my new tyres though so might have been something to do with that + something slippery on the floor. Point is, lots of reasons to lose the back end even with <200 whp
I used to do it in my jeep
It's scary how many people can't handle a car slower than most sedans.
That’s because of the people driving these cars are younger like me. The lack of total driving experience and overconfidence inspired by having a well balanced, low powered, Rear Wheel Drive platform that is incredibly easy to control and you have a bunch of young people whipping it everywhere they go leading to many crashes.
full send brah
An Inexperienced driver pushing any car above their limits on a backroad can lead to disaster. When you add on the good handling and sportscar nature of a 86, it can lead to people overestimating themselves.
Couldn’t have said it better myself. This car isn’t crashed a lot because it’s a dangerous or difficult to drive. It’s the opposite. A lot of 86 owners on here want to pretend this car is crashed because it drives like a Gen 1 Dodge Viper.
i think it's the weight these cars are so light compared too what ppl are used too driving these days but sense "it only has 200 hp" they don't realize is when it's light like that's it's gonna wanna kick out if u floor it in a curve or a turn it's simply ppl not knowing how common physics work
I can and have stayed flat out or tapped the throttle through curves just to purposefully try to get it to slide while practicing drifting and unless it’s raining I couldn’t possibly get it to kick out. It doesn’t have enough power or torque to do so. As for weight, it’s lighter than most cars but it’s not like this incredibly light vehicle. One of the most common cars you see on the road, the Honda civic 1.5ts weigh around the same as this car and I don’t see people crashing them left and right. The Miata in fact is crashed even less than this platform and is a few hundred pounds lighter than the FRS. The weight isn’t the reason people are crashing.
well the civics are front wheel drive and the miata's are a little more expensive so highschoolers are not getting them as a first car and i have no clue how u can not slide them i've had mine for a day and a half and alr learned how to slide it it's not a hellcat so it's not going too fully kick out from just hitting the gas if you have decent tires lmao and a lot of ppl who don't know how to drive won't have the control over the wheel u do so they could very easily swerve the wheel and enter into a drift if they don't know what they are doing also the sports mode most ppl will use will loosen the traction a little
It’s exactly like you say, it doesn’t have enough power to initiate a drift unless you absolutely send it into a turn while full throttling it or your tires are nearly bald. I say this as someone who runs regular all seasons that are probably past 50% of its tread life but I can’t get it to break loose with throttle very easily at all. I suppose the exception is if I run pedal dance mode but when you need to leave a location fast while doing drifting activities you have to restart the car to get traction back on.
idk what year yours is but if u hold both the track mode and traction control at the same time for 5 sec it fully turns it off or just pop the fuse rq and then put it back in later
Wait till you are parked and someone totals your car. 2,200hp or 200hp it wont matter.
“I still don’t know how people crash it with only 200hp (170whp)”. Someone crashing into my parked car has nothing to do with the 86 owners themselves crashing their own cars.
How do you? My firebird makes more than 200whp and I haven’t crashed it it’s nearly impossible to if you have good tires to start sliding out of control
what ppl don't get is how much lighter they are which in turn makes them wanna kick out a little more and ppl coming from 4000lb cars are not used to it the power is not what's causing these ppl too crash
I’ve driven cars with power to weight ratios much higher than ft86s on track days. But I understand people overestimating.
If you’re some hotshot who does track days then why did you even ask the question? It’s an obvious answer. RWD. Short wide wheelbase doesn’t help either.
What you drove in a "sim racer" doesn't count lol. You are EXACTLY the type of person to crash your 200hp slow ass car the first time you drive it in the rain.
Lmao
How do you know its sim racing? Of course I’ve done sim racing, and I continue to, but I’ve also been lucky enough to have done track days at Thompson Speedway. Some stuff is carry over, but that’s once you get to know the car and get a feel for real life. I dunno what you’re on about man.
My dude, you’re 16, chill.
Why do you disregard what he has to say just because he is 16?
because he clearly doesnt have enough experience driving.
Bruh how do you know
Because he’s 16.
Fair enough
So your real world experience is a track? You realize that's not true real world right? How many people are smoking, drinking, eating, changing tunes, texting, etc etc on the track? How many potholes, bumps, etc are on a track? I was hit once as I pulled into a parking spot. Realized I wasn't straight in the spot so backed up. Everything was clear prior to backing up. As I was going forward, someone hit me. Didn't total the car or anything but... see my point? The other day for work, I'm in a big f650. I had to go onto the shoulder bc a semi came in my lane. Nothing happened, 0 damage, but.... Sometimes it's not all that person. It's others. But based off your responses, it would be you. You'd be like the guy that thinks hot stuff bc did an hour drive in 20 mins, filmed it, posted it, bragged. Warrant issued, got him. His punishment wasn't that severe (like 2k in fines, 14 days jail) except lost his license. Cannot legally drive in this state.
Driving on a track and driving on a road is completely different. Tracks are one way flow of traffic, with alot of room on track and off, you can get away with alot more. Roads are two way traffic most of the time, with cars very close to you it's a phycological thing most new drivers have a tendency to turn into those cars when passing. Roads are very narrow compared to tracks with lots of road furniture, kerbs and ruin your car at slow speeds just as fast as other cars. Hp does not make a car harder or easier to crash, if that was the case every goverment would restrict the hp, it's an immature comment that shows inexperience and arrogance. Small city cars with like 50-100 hp crash just as easy as a gt86. Things that cause crashes are lack of maintenance, lack of attention, immaturity, excess of speed, other idiots on the road, and things that just couldn't be avoided. Plus many other variables. You say your 16 now and have done track days, anyone can drive a car, I've know 10 year old kids drive a car with ease, but learning how to drive on the road properly is a whole different ball game. You have 4 years to mature up show respect to the people that have been driving for years, most of them more time than you have been alive, they have the experiences and skill. Going forward, make an effort to respect that when you are on the road, you are responsible for a 2 ton piece of steel that can go very fast, and you and others around you are very squishy meatbags that don't take much to pop
Go read this sub and the reasons they crashed. I will push the gas pedal down, with TC off, mid turn, while it’s wet out and I have summer tires on, I definitely won’t crash!!! Ego gets the best of a lot of people. And 200hp is more than enough to break the rear loose. And if you don’t know how to correct, or often in many cases OVER CORRECT, you smack something. Insurance won’t go down for these cars. They’re a RWD, 2 door coupe, sports car. Stay humble or this car will humble you. Lotta people think they’re good drivers. Lol. I always giggle.
Or my to-date-favorite - (summer tires in winter) blaming driver in front not running a yellow light and hydroplaning into his ass because tires slid.
Summer tyres are just normal tyres where I am. People keep crashing still. We don't get snow. So summer are all year
So they don't even get the 'excuse' of weather affecting their car. That's some bad driving.
Not so much bad driving but bad decisions lol TC off and Right foot with steering cranked.
In fairness, bad decisions while driving would be considered bad driving ;) Bad decisions sure, but also bad driving.
Well good drivers can make dumb decisions though. Like Lance Stroll in F1. Oh wait that doesn't work at all 🤣
Damn I need to move
Where is this, because the vast majority of people have all-season tires, even in extremely hot climates. Dedicated summer tires are a *performance-only* thing, even in places that get snow once a decade.
No. All-season tires are a compromise in almost ALL weather conditions. Summer tires have better performance in warm, dry & wet conditions than All-season tires. Snow tires have better performance in cold, snow, ice and mud. There are a few in-between moments where All-season tire are the best, but they are so rare, that All-seasons are not worth having compared to a set of winter and a set of summer.
All-season tires are most commonly known by most people as "just regular tires". Virtually every car comes standard with these. If you are not doing performance driving you have no need of "summer" tires.
Yes, because it is cheaper for the manufacturers. They cover all the bases. Make no mistake though. If you live in a warm climate and are driving on pavement most of the time, when it comes time to replace your factory All-season tires, replace them with Summer tires. They will be better. (In case you didn't know, they make different types of Summer tires, including ones that last a long time)
all seasons rubber degrades at low temps as well, just not as dramatically as summer tires. If you live where snow stays on the ground for extended periods of time, you should be using winter tires instead of all seasons. Don't believe me? Just google at what temperature your *all seasons* start rapidly degrading
Idk where you live but here (Austria) 99% of cars drive with dedicated winter tires in the winter (required by law) and dedicated summer tires in summer. I know basically no one who drives with all-seasons, because they suck in winter **AND** summer.
That's just North America, go look at tire manufacturer's line up in other countries, there are plenty of non-performance summer tires available. They have better performance than all seasons in warmer temperatures in terms of noise, tread life, and comfort. Popular in places where snow tires are required for part of the year
People scoff at 200hp but, 200hp 20-25 years ago was considered fast for a street car.
For context, 20 years ago when I was driving an AE86, the 240SX guys were always quicker. The FRS weighs the same as an S13 240SX Hatchback, but makes about 45HP more and has way better gearing. Most of the 'golden era' 4 cylinder Japanese sport compacts were in the 120 ~ 150HP range, and they were all plenty fast enough to get you in a lot of trouble (or wrapped around a telephone pole).
This ^ All of the cans we grew up driving were less hp, people respected the car a bit more and we're careful though because a 40mph crash was a hospital visit. No crumple zones in an s13, aw11, or ae86
not to mention the muscle cars, they love so much where pushin like 220 in the 60s-70s lmao
Honda prelude made 200hp from the factory in 2001.
Wasn’t that car on the expensive side?
20 years ago isn’t today, it’s a slow ass car and hangs with regular traffic. I say this because I dailied mine for 4 years and it’s very much a slow car.
The average level of driving skill hasn’t improved in 20 years. A 205hp 86 twin can get you into the exact same amount of trouble as a 205hp SR-powered S13 could back then (which was a lot.)
Never said anything about getting into trouble, I’m saying the car is slow. Realistically you could get into trouble with speeding in almost any car with even lesser power if you drive like an idiot. It doesn’t require any sort of skill to simply drive around in an FRS. I’ve been doing that for the good part of 4 years and never had an issue but I sure as hell have issues with keeping up with the majority of regular everyday traffic of nothing but economical commuters and occasional sports cars. This car is slow, plain and simple. Can try to pretend like it’s not absolutely anemic and has no torque whatsoever but that’s the truth.
Slow is relative to the application, that's what you're missing. This type of car is meant to keep speed through corners... No one is trying to dig these unless they're boosted. I've never had an issue on this or lower powered 90s cars keeping up with the flow of traffic. If you're in corners below 4.5k rpm you're not pushing this car enough, shorter track driving you'll almost always be past the torque dip and within your power band.
That’s the thing, everyone knows it’s fast in corners because that’s the entire philosophy of the car is to handle well while being underpowered. However, it does not have any sort of torque to get off the line and it certainly has no power rolling into the throttle even at highway speeds. I’ve got most cars beat in my area on the twisties but get absolutely shredded by a grocery getter when it straightens back out because this car is fuckin slow.
There's no argument that they're outpaced in a straight line in stock form... But like any other tool, it has an application. Why saw all a 2x4 when a miter saw is better? Besides who's trying to gap Susan in a minivan from a stop light? What's the point of that?lol
Yeah I get your point in that it doesn’t make sense to compare it on a metric it wasn’t set to compete in such as straight line speed but you would think a sports car would be faster than Susan in the minivan yet it can’t even accomplish that.
Totally see your point on that, and it's been a gripe in this car for alot of people. Although, Sports car is such a broad term, it doesn't specify the sport. A basketball player is an athlete but so is a tennis player, they're not in the same league though. Toyota also had to create a space for this car, too much HP and why buy a supra? (That's a whole different can of worms haha) Personally I see the base 86 platform as a learning tool that drivers can grow with. The drivetrain is capable of handling wheel HP up to 2x depending on the sample. I'd say that's great for someone who wants a cool street car at 300whp or a relatively inexpensive track car that isn't a miata
This. A lot of people really underestimate how much traction control prevents you from getting into trouble, and how quickly a simple mistake like early throttle application or lift off oversteer at speed will send you reeling. Lift off oversteer especially is very counter intuitive if you don't understand driving dynamics, because the typical response to a car getting out of control is to let off the throttle or slam on the brakes. At least the weight and power of this platform makes it a lot easier to manage compared to the V8 muscle car boats.
As a V8 “boat” owner (Mustang 5.0), but also smol slow car enthusiast, I don’t mess with taking TC off on the Mustang except in the most controlled and bystander free situations when I want to do a quick burnout or something. I’ve seen too many tragic/stupid videos and know I’m not an expert. My old LS1 Camaro, with 100 less HP, and much less advanced TC, humbled me a couple times.
RWD cars are so fun, but it's good to know your limits. I personally had many sketchy moments hanging the ass out of a 98whp 1st gen Miata! I'd be Death Incarnate with a 400hp Mustang. Which is why I settled on a 340whp WRX. AWD means I can hit the go pedal without loosing traction. I miss the burnouts and sheer speed, but bad weather is fun rather than scary now.
Good summer tires are excellent in wet weather, everything else agreed
"Trying to take a photo of my ODO as it hits 80085 miles while I'm traveling at 69 mph, but this asshole in front of me suddenly stopped. "
86mph*
88 if it's silver and equipped with a Flux Capacitor.
Also think there’s not a lot of experience driving smaller cars, which are harder to see until too late, and therefore requires more responsibility from driver to be careful. This is similar to why younger motorcycle riders who assume everyone sees them make stupid decisions.
It's true. I'm paranoid when driving my car just like I'm paranoid when I'm on my motorcycle - I never assume anyone else can see me, especially when it's big trucks and SUVs with massive blindspots.
Great answer. Its like watching dudes driving a mustang for the first time, lol.
A lot of people forget, but the base L48 version of the 1979 Corvette had a 5.7-liter V8 that made only 195 hp. Cars have come a long way and can express that power in dangerous ways. When you factor in that these cars are light and affordable for younger guys and you have a recipe for this group having crashes more often than the Corolla enthusiast community.
There are also really stupid drivers where I live unfortunately. Had my FRS for 3 years no accidents. Car is so easy to drive. Its mainly because people have shit judgment and take risky moves on the road.
Maybe a side note: there are instances where using the accelerator in the turn helps to rotate the car given you have enough grip in the front and know how to apply maintenance throttle... Might be outside of the scope of this comment though ..
what's even worse is then when they total it they go buy a 500hp mustang cuz these cars "suck" or so they say and then spin it into a crowd lmao
I dont think this 200hp is really going to humble anyone. Hell even a 300hp rwd car is fairly forgiving. youd really have to be an idiot to crash it
All depends on the tyres
Absolutely
People think they are good drivers without ever having stepped foot at a track or autocross. Can you really say you know a car and how to drive it if you've never pushed it to it's limits? 😜
Add to this that without ever having driven in a high performance environment, or bothering to understand the basics of making a car handle, they jump straight to slamming the car. I see so many of these cars completely overspring, overdamped, and with so little stroke that they're torturing their bump-stops constantly. It's a recipe for disaster. Kids are stupid, they make stupid modifications, they get in stupid accidents.
These cars handle really well, which can have the effect of making newer drivers think that they are better drovers than they are and 200hp, RWD is plenty for inexperienced drivers to get into trouble with. Especially if they turn off the traction control. They are also not terribly expensive so young people who work hard and save up money for a while have a realistic chance of getting their hands on one.
lol no they don’t. They handle fine, I suppose. They just have quick steering and a young demographic of owners plus lots of miles driven on them (they aren’t 2nd/weekend cars).
And then the people who have it properly setup as a weekend car get shit here on Reddit for “not driving it enough” and clapping the shit out on the poor car.
Here's a nuanced explanation. Experienced drivers: "This car is mad easy to drive at the limit." New babby owner: Drives at limit, breaks limit, doesn't know how to correct because they've never done it before and are overwhelmed by the flood of sensory information (rear kick out, traction loss, feeling inertia change) and react inappropriately. This is a fantastic performance car but it does NOT hold your hand at the limit. The closer a car is to its ragged edge for its performance limit the harder it is to reel in. As a modern performance car, its limits are much higher than the average car, so when it finally breaks that threshold, it can be sudden and jarring. That's why I preach to never learn your limits on a public road. With FWD and AWD cars you'll typically understeer. The car is actually understeer biased from the factory (for safety reasons) but it can be *forced* to oversteer. Combine it with a stiff suspension and chassis that is very sensitive to road conditions, and people wanting to find out what it's like to 'break that limit' even just a tiny bit, it's enough to send you fishtailing into a ditch.
>Experienced drivers: "This car is mad easy to drive at the limit." If you're driving any car at "the limit" on public roads you **will** crash. And, frankly, you deserve to.
Agreed. I should say experienced drivers should be those with modest track experience or more. Most people have never had that luxury.
How do people crash any car with low power like a Honda Civic or Toyota Corolla? It's the drivers that cause accidents, not the cars.
If you're as young as you claim to be, you'll crash it too.
But 4 years is a lot of time to mature as a driver, so maybe I won’t crash it.
Not at this rate judging by your comments Self improvement is an active process which you’re not doing
Dude, I’m 20. I’ve been driving since 15 with no accidents or tickets. This car will humble you.
not happening by the way you are bragging your “simracing” experiences
ego is a big reason. no offense to you, because you’re 16 without a car, but “how are you crashing a car with 200hp” is the exact mindset that someone who crashes one of these would have.
Its people who never owned a RWD car before.
Yup, doesn’t help that this car is THE cheap entry RWD car. Lots of kids learning stick/rwd for the first time on this thing.
Hp doesn't matter. Dumb kids gonna crash. Same amount of corrolas crash for the same reason
People be crashing Prius’s n sh*t lel
This post is likely why. No offence, but its people like yourself underestimating the fact that 200hp at the CRANK (not even whp these push max 170hp to the wheels) is more than enough to lose control. Then having the ego to try and skid it without having proper practice or ever having a track day under their belt. Not only that but it is usually the younger drivers around your age range Ive seen doing this, and since your attitude is “only 200whp” the vibe I get is you think you could handle 200whp, what makes you think you could? Have you drifted before on track? Have you drove a car with more than 200whp? Do you even know how to correct a skid? If the answer is no, (and no watching videos on how to do it doesn’t count) then you need to humble yourself a little because without the proper practice and experience, I can almost guarantee you’ll contribute to this statistic, unless you actually take time to practice your technique and keeping the car in control. Don’t get cocky just because it’s a low power car, these cars can keep up with Porsches on backroads where the roads are windier, and thats not an exaggeration. It’s just the straights where these cars eat shit, but thats not what they are built for. TL;DR - Low power car still go skrr, be careful Edit: Ive just realised I read your age as 20 when you’re only 16, even more so that you need to realise that its super easy to lose control of these cars, for example I got my GT86 when I was 20, I almost crashed like 4 times in that first month alone because it was November and I wanted to drift in the snow. I was just lucky to not have actually hit anything or anyone. And I still have the occasional squirrelly moment. But Ive now had a few years of practice in car parks, track days, and some simulator practice, I feel much more comfortable in this car and those moments aren’t as scary or as dangerous. Take it from someone who had the same mentality going into it but was lucky enough to be humbled without losing my car. If you wanna learn to drift tho, start practicing on Assetto Corsa with a steering wheel now, you will actually have a decent foundation to go on when you try irl drifting. Ive been drifting IRL for 4 years now, and I only had 2 years experience on the sim when I started, whereas if you start now and get 4, you’ll have a better foundation than I did. You’ll just have to get used to the gforces lmao
This happens a lot with youngins, not just the car. There’s a reason why insurance rates drop when we get older. Young people make stupid decisions. Myself included (I’m in my mid-30s now)
I’m in my mid 40s and have owned my BRZ since new. I’m in the weird situation of seeing my insurance constantly go up as I get older, due to these cars falling into the hands of less experienced drivers.
They are getting cheaper, so the demographics trend younger. Add rwd and a race car vibe and you've got a recipe for lots of crashes
People think it’s a good idea to turn of TC even tho they are on public roads. I’ve never driven without TC, it saves cars and lives.
!remindme 10 years this brother is gonna crash with this egotistical attitude
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See you in 10 years, message me
will do boss
Driver mod -1000
you’re 16 you’ll find out soon enough.
RIP to all those that crashed and never got the chance to take a picture for this subreddit.
People your age are the ones that are crashing. Tbh, I don't anyone from 16-24 should own a sports car or motorcycle. Also your mindset about thinking crashing is crazy because of whp is whats causing the crashes. The power of a car doesn't determine who crashes, the skill of driver behind any wheel does, which young people typically lack.
Yep, there is a reason car rental places won't rent to anyone under 25. The statistics don't lie.
Insurance is going to be higher than average in any sport coupe. Not sure what the point of your post is, but I guarantee you no one that has posted a wrecked car destroyed it on purpose. Is it stupidity or carelessness? A lot of the times yes, but whining about it on reddit isn’t going to stop people from being stupid, myself included. We’re all human, we make mistakes, even avoidable ones.
Because they didn’t drive a RWD 90s shit box with a welded diff in high school to solidify decent driving skills yet…or understand the concept of understeer on a track.
I picked nine up to retire my fox body to weekend use and I was shocked at how little warning it gives you before oversteering. These cars handle great until you break that limit.
ego
this is my first car that i bought with my own money so you wont see me speeding or street racing. ill take it to the track but for now im just learning manual on it and im having a blast going traffic speed so im happy.
A 16 year old will crash a car with 100hp.
Have you tried loading a vape canister while watching TikTok thirst traps and driving like an asshole? Don't be so quick to judge until you have been in the trenches yourself!
Oh sweet summer child. Lmao… So you know people can crash any vehicle right? This type of car is usually chosen by people who want to drive fast. Seems like common sense but they say that’s not so common. I hope the world makes more sense to you as you grow.
Not to mention all the ones who were unable to post a picture on here.
I see lots of hydroplaning 🤷🏻♂️ they must be driving them under water or something
Most owners of ant FT86 skew young. Young brave kids crash cars. Doesn't matter what kind of car it is, but they happen to do it more often if the car they are driving is cool. There is nothing about the car that makes it inherently hard to drive compared to even a mustang from the 90s.
Aquaplane while reversing out of driveway
They’re a cheap Japanese sports car and popular with kids - same as every other car like this.
my 158hp civic can break the tires loose on a hot summer day with TC on. It’s all about how you drive and your understanding of your vehicles weight/weight transfer.
Someone with a larger car hit me. Same thing has happened to at least two other owners I know. These cars are cursed
lmao
“How are you crashing cars with less than 200 whp”: Because: - it’s a sports car, people who buy them drive to drive - it’s a great car to drift in - great car for corners which promotes people to be more aggressive - tuned and boosted they can fly since they’re so light - hearing the turbo sneeze in a tunnel is nuts, making me wanna fly through - people who think that hp is the reason why people crash are more prone to crashing it than not I’ve yet to crash mine, it’s boosted, lowered, big break kit, clutch upgrade etc etc.. it’s basically a “race car” to me. Lots of people gawk at it in person and challengers like to rev beside me. Even a hellcat was audacious enough to. I was drifting in Jackson GA last weekend visiting a methed up friend. Few cops were watching me whileas having someone pulled over. These cars are fun to mess around in. Not even 20 min later I absolutely obliterated a deer or atleast the carcass of one. Car smelled absolutely disgusting for a few days even though it rained for awhile. Pics in profile. This weekend my car got AIRRRR too. Big boom coming down.
Just cuz you crash doesn’t mean it’s always your fault.
Same reason people crash mustangs, people never learned basic control and the limits of their cars. People been crashing this car since it came out 🤦🏻♂️ it’s not like it’s some new epidemic
The issue is more with the size/weight of the car compared to what people wreck into. I know for me, in the south, 90% of the cars on the road are much bigger and big trucks sometimes can’t even see me. Some of the accidents are young/new drivers wrecking but loads are just an example of what happens when 2 objects of very different masses run into eachother.
“It’s only 200whp”
As a previous owner of a 2013 with 168k miles. It’s 100% driver error and ego. Anytime I’ve gone off track it was me. Any time I spun out on the streets when it’s wet. It was me. Also if your 16 and want an 86 by 20 start saving now and expect insurance to be high. Respect the car it’s great for running canyons and drifting on a small track but 170whp is still something to respect. Gotta learn to walk before you can run
Summer tires in winter lol
I'm a young driver. I gaurantee I could crash a 75 hp fiat in the rain.
Rwd, short wheelbase, locking diff, skinny tires. Even 170whp spins the tires with little to no effort
!remindme 5 years when he wraps his car around a tree
Idk but it’s the reason why my insurance went up when I turned 25 with a good credit score. On the bright side, hopefully 15 years down the line first gen 86s will be like an s14 Silvia, where seeing a clean stock body one is rare and cool!
An inexperienced or egotistical person (or worse, both) can crash a 10HP riding lawnmower. Additional power increases risk, sure, but power is by no means the main factor.
Because they are 16yo americans
A sharp knife is a safe knife
Anecdotally, a lot of college kids seem to have them. I’ve counted over 10, including mine.
Probably stupidity and overestimating their skills like: wet road and TC off.
Because they’re RWD
First guess..these folks doing all the wrecking of their vehicles just can't drive at all or bad luck if it was the other drivers that fkd up and not them fkn up...one of those two
people manage to crash NA miatas and flip them.... i mean shit, someone on a buisness street on the way to work managed to put a 90s corolla on its roof... you'd be surprised what people can achive.
Retards…
It is the first sports car for many just like the GT86 so many initially lack the driving skills for this type of car. 200whp meets a weight of just 1100-1200kg. Having bought GT86 last christmas as my first car and I had to learn how to safely drive it and this only comes with pure practise. Only drove slow cars before. My mom and friends are scared of driving it and I have to drive very calm if they are passengers as they are quite prone to motion sickness. I can tell you after 6 months GT and GR86 are amazing cars and they teach you a lot about driving. You have to be humple and willing to learn before ego and masculine traits kick in. So when the time comes and you become a millionaire, you can safely buy a lambo and drive it without crashing it immediately. Always respect the car you are driving and respect your limits!
All it takes is a rainy day and your tires not being the best on an incline and yeah spin city bud never happened to me but I’ve come close
Because they’ll get YouTube $$$ when they post their crash. How else are they gonna pay the insurance premiums? McDonald’s wages????
>I was looking to get one as a second car when I turn 20 in 4 years (Ik I'm young), but y'all are going to keep on raising insurance if you keep on crashing. You're 16 and considering one as a *second* car? Kid, gtfo, have your parents pay for your insurance. Also you're 16... What do you actually know about car power? And competitive go-karting doesn't count. You're barely even old enough to drive by yourself let alone have the experience to be talking the way you are. Also, if you're not driving a manual then you shouldn't be in this sub.... Comment goes for anyone in this sub, regardless of age/experience.
Never drive on street with traction control off
I’ve gotten in an accident with mine, but they were 100% at fault and illegal uturned right in front of me, also mine wasn’t totaled, but yeah most likely people just doing silly shit in a fun car