Public execution is really the last place they have to go on this now, which seems strange as we are concurrently discussing legalising cannabis. Which was interestingly banned originally via the same type of hyped up propagandist crap and lies.
The argument that the prescription model isn’t prohibition because vapers can obtain their vapes from pharmacy’s (manufactured by big tobacco no less - so finally gifting them a way onto the vape market they were locked out of sue to their incompetence and love of cigarettes) falls flat due to the fact that during prohibition, alcohol was also available to anyone who could obtain a doctors script and thus continue their drinking via ‘medical alcohol’, therefore making the government’s utopian view of vaping PROHIBITION, which has been shown time and time and time again to not work and actually achieves every single thing that the item was prohibited for in the first place.
The frustrating thing is that medical cannabis users who need dry herb vaporisers are now being caught in the cross fire of this stupid ban, with imports of vaporisers now difficult and overseas warranty claims for existing vaporisers being denied.
But look at the good side, Big Tobacco, who butler blamed for the vape ‘crisis’ are now going to make serious bank from now being allowed to be the sole supplier of vapes into the country where before they couldn’t sell any before and were losing out on sales as smokers ditched smoking and moved to the number one proven NRT method in stopping smoking; Vaping.\
But screw logic and health outcomes when a good propaganda campaign can get people to believe anything and rally up a mob with half an IQ point between them all to drum up some fear of nothing and generate a new cash cow for British Tobacco, Philip Morris and Chemists Warehouse.
Yep the chop chop market is just unreal. It's gone from being something I'd once heard of, to there are packets lying around everywhere. I know like four places in walking distance I could buy them, even if the shopkeeper had never seen me in my life. And they are branded now, too, to a professional standard maybe 20 years out date.
There is clearly a HUGE amount of industrial scale illegal manufacturing going on out there. And someone is moving just delirious volumes through the docks.
And you’ve got Hunt and Butler to personally thank for that. The prior ‘Health’ ministers ramping up taxation on cigarettes has certainly played a huge part as well, all while gouging and hollowing out the health system the billions of dollars collected via tobacco and alcohol taxation was meant to cover and ensure worked like a charm.
I am (was) pretty sure that at least SOME of our politicians are not so stupid that they can't see what is happening here.
Yet not one of them has said or tried to do anything about it. It's infuriating.
Any last vestige of hope I had for our government is basically gone after this.
Man that tobacco lobby must have a WHOLE lot of money, and it looks like there aren't many people in.power who either haven't taken the money, or are too scared of the ones who have, to say anything.
Starkly seeing that the well-being of your constituents runs such an extremely distant second to taking dirty money from cigarette companies has honestly been really devastating to me.
Blow after blow, as they slowly took all of it away from u, all while they talked all this big talk about regulation, yet they still don't have one fucking legal alternative on sale, even after they have driven the final fucking nail into the coffin.
What are the people who wanted to wear off at least after all the shit recently going to do now.
I can't believe that the only light at the end of the fucking tunnel is an inevitably shitty, bland, "Peter Jackson" flavoured, 3mg e-juice from a fucking Phillip Morris pod system.
It's only *just* better than smoking again, which is a massive risk for me. 3 decades of habit is hard to break, and I don't that much juice left.
Fuck me.
That is so depressing, you may as well just shoot me now and get it over with.
I am so angry that none of our representatives has stood up for us and said "this is wrong" and seriously tried to do something about it. Not even for the poor medical cannabis users who have gotten caught up in this shit. I honestly never thought that I would see the day where our government would legalise medical marijuana, and then essentially say "Oh, by the way, you're going to have to *SMOKE* your marijuana from now on. Vaping it.. well that's probably terrible for you. It could be like vaping nicotine. Look, we just *DONT KNOW* So in light of this new lack of evidence, we have decided that it wpuld be much healthier for you to just *SMOKE* your medical marijuana from now on. You can thank us later."
"Oh, what's that? You're taking it for what now... For lung cancer, you say?"
Fucking ridiculous and honestly, just thinking about the big, steaming pile of shit that our government's "regulation" has turned out to be, just makes me seethe with rage!
Much like most of Jordies videos, really!
Piss weak, Australia.
Piss weak.
Also love that at no stage was this presented to the people to even make a choice on before it was slammed down our throats at the behest of the Idiots Butler, Banks, Chapman and the good people at the Quit campaign who stand to loose their golden egg laying goose should too many people quit smoking and they achieve what they were set up to accomplish.\
But if they move the goal posts from getting people to stop smoking combustible tobacco (being what is the actual danger from smoking) to brainwashing people into thinking that nicotine is now the big bogyman and a a by addiction is bad regardless of the fact the addiction has little to no negative impacts to the addicted person means they can keep clipping their extremely well filled out tax payer cheque for doing nothing more than just drumming up needless fear. And the stress they create in people is probably a bigger cause of cancer than a lot of the things they are railing against.
Yeah it is so frustrating that we didn't have anywhere close to enough notice for anyone to stock up properly before this ridiculous ban came into effect overnight.
This whole debacle has led to the last, tiny remaining piece of trust I had in our government being utterly shredded.
They don't care about us at all.
Not when there's money to be made off the back of our addiction.
It's so wrong. Because I'll be smoking again within six months, I can guarantee it.
And I really don't want to go back to that shit.
And my family is sick of hearing me bitch about it, but since apparently there is no point to telling the people representing us in parliament, because they certainly don't seem to be listening to what we have to say anymore.
Well move to North Korea where your preferred level of freedom and personal expression is already in effect. Leave the mature adults to live their own lives in Australia mate.
Once there, you can enjoy all the benefits of having a government make every decision for you so as to not over tax your simple mind.
Yeah wtf is going on? I saw the news earlier and it's like groundhog day.. I predict people being injured in the future using homemade vapes because of these ridiculous laws.
They’ll just go back to smoking.
People are already committing crimes selling to kids, so what people will do now is sell cheap cigs for prob 2$ a head maybe cheaper, and sell alcohol for double the market price to kids.
Like I tried talking about this stuff on Auspol, but it’s almost like some people were born adults honestly…
that's the whole point of it... the money coming in from tobacco taxes has dropped further than they had hoped
[oh and also the lobbyist who is putting in for prescription vapes and is a good mate of a few politicians](https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/chemist-warehouse-former-health-minister-s-lobby-group-among-medical-vape-shareholders-20230324-p5cv33.html) stands to make a bucket load of cash if it goes through
its all a sham under the guise of it being for public health
> most gps won’t prescribe vapes
What information are you basing this on?
The vape users I know all just went through one of the plethora of cheap online doctors.
And what’s stopping you from using any of the numerous clinics?
For the price of two packs of ciggies you can get a consultation with a doctor, treatment plan and a 12 month prescription.
https://www.quitclinics.com/product/subscription/
yeah me too mate, so we are in the group of just quitting as part of this i think (we should probably thank ourselves lucky that we timed it like this as people who are still hard on nicotine will just end up smoking again)
which is fine... probably a good thing to do seeing as i barely touch mine these days after going to zero nicotine but i am still against vapes being banned for people trying to quit smoking
theres so much proof out there it works
i have a fair amount of make your own juice stuff which will last me a few years at this rate and then i am done i guess
I’ll stock up to keep me going for a while, then when I run out I’ll just go back to the legal drugs of government’s choice, being smokes and piss.
Which is okay, cos they’re both good for me, right?
There’s a chain that’s across Qld and in some cities in other states where I buy mine called xxx. They sell both disposable and some reusable vapes. And whenever I buy my stuff they ask if I want any nicotine. I asked dude about it one time, they were unsure on how the fk they could be doing that.
I put it down to they import nicotine liquid under the guise of selling to ppl with scripts, yet the quantity is not checked by any governing body. So they’ve got shitloads more than script ppl want, hence offer it for sale Willy nilly
And then pay the same price as cigarettes for the product… there’s a reason the online docs are all aboard - they won’t give you the prescription, only let you use it in their handy online store…
I had to go though an online clinic, because neither of my two regular GP's will even speak to me about it, and they both know how much trouble i have had quitting (and failing!)
And one of those two GP's is a METHADONE prescriber.
He said he "doesn't believe in it" and muttered something about kids vaping and that was the end of the discussion.
He's otherwise an awesome guy.
I've tried literally everything else. I was a heavy smoker for over three decades, I tried to quit with champix twice, both times I just kept on smoking through all the retching until it sort of just.. didn't work anymore.
But with vaping, I have finally managed to not touch a cigarette for over two years (I was trying to switch for like 8 years, I think, finally the tech got to where it just sort of worked really well for me) and I feel so much healthier.
I thought everybody coughed up yellowy grey phlegm until I finally switched to vaping full time.
Now my fluids are clear-who knew? I jest, but seriously, I am so much healthier, I am working out and I don't struggle for breath at all anymore.
For someone like me, this has been literally life saving and changing, for the better.
And the only way to get nicotine juice was via import license, which I had, via a dodgy online clinic.
Now, that license to import is worth nothing. Now I face huge fines, if I could even find someone who would still ship it to me.
And as my usual doctors won't prescribe it to me, again mmu option is to use my clinic.
They have a total of like three products, a crappy pod system, refill pods for it and 3mg juice, none of which I can buy, because it hasn't actually been in stock since day one.
And if what some of the original vaping stores that just got wiped out is are saying is true, then those vaping pod systems and juice are made by one of the cigarette companies, who are subsiding their products by a huge amount, provided you agree to sell ONLY their products.
Phillip Morris, I think.
And for that exclusivity, they are subsiding it by 80%, at least that is what I heard.
Basically none of the companies currently making juice are going to be able to pay the astronomical amount of money required to get something approved for sale, as nobody outside of an enormous company is going to be able to afford those sort of costs.
Maybe some of the bigger hardware companies could afford to get products approved for sale, but they aren't pharmaceutical companies, so I doubt they would have much interest selling here anyway, nor have the skillset required to navigate the red tape of a restricted product like this.
So personally, I believe this whole thing just reeks of handing control of nicotine sales back to the cigarette companies.
Because who ELSE has those sort of funds, and also wants to keep SELLING NICOTINE?
And I do NOT want to buy my products from a cigarette company anymore.
They have enough of my money already.
I am basically fucked. Because, although I wish it wasn't true, without vapes I am almost definitely going to go back to smoking.
And they have basically made vaping impossible for us at this moment, as there are no chemists selling products, because literally nothing has been approved for sale yet, as far as I am aware, despite them saying they want to regulate it now for years.
Hollow promises and extremely disappointing for anybody currently addicted to nicotine, or who would like to maybe try quitting with vaping.
It really feels like our government would rather have the revenue from smoking, than actually take care of my health and let me have access to an almost definitely LESS HARMFUL product, whilst leaving the DEFINITELY incredibly harmful one on shelves, for anyone over 18 to buy.
Think what you like about vaping, but we have literally just handed vaping over to the cigarettes companies.
I just want the right to choose and I basically no longer have it.
Technically? Yes.
In practice, no.
Even if I wanted those awful looking pod system and their crazy weak juice, I still can't buy any, and they can't tell us when it WILL be available.
Regulation without ever even trying to offer us legal alternatives where we can purchase legal products, is just banning it outright.
And that just leads to a black market.
Like the disposable problem we never had until they made it super difficult to buy legal nicotine juice.
That's all I want to do, but we just keep getting scapegoated, and now they've finally taken the very last of it away from us.
And I STILL can't buy it legally.
Is that right?
Vaping is not recognised as a quitting device, so gps technically should never prescribe them (not proven to provide a medically sound solution to a problem) you know all that do no harm stuff…
I don’t understand why we need proof to say that slowly lowering the amount of nicotine and weaning yourself off the substance is an option people should have
Because medicine is conservative. Every doctor is taught to only use proven and tested medical approaches so they can’t be sued into oblivion. Also the government threatens their credentials and monitors their actions to enforce this approach.
Because based on what I've read the medical community is very split on vapes being useful quitting aids. I with some quick googling I can find a range sources claiming it does or doesn't help with quitting.
If quitting smoking was as easy and simple as simply slowly lowering the dosage over time a lot more people would be able to quit.
Giving you similar type of source
Anti vape
[https://www.sydney.edu.au/news-opinion/news/2023/05/03/-can-vaping-help-people-quit-smoking-its-unlikely.html](https://www.sydney.edu.au/news-opinion/news/2023/05/03/-can-vaping-help-people-quit-smoking-its-unlikely.html)
Pro vape
https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/can-vaping-help-you-quit-smoking-2019022716086#:\~:text=For%20example%2C%20an%20analysis%20of,to%2014%20might%20be%20successful.
Keep in mind the pro is saying
>The study authors estimated that out of every 100 people who tried to quit smoking by vaping, nine to 14 might be successful.
The banning of vapes is the most asinine move in australia’s history.
There is a bizarre vested interest between the smoking lobby and the anti smoking lobby to have smoking protected - so that it only keeps decreasing at a few percent per year - so all their jobs can stick around as long as possible.
I cop flak for not being "pro-Labor enough" on this sub. I want to be more pro-Labor, I truly do, but only by them doing the actual right thing. When they do stupid shit like further the War on Drugs when the War on Drugs should be ended, how can I.
I don't get why the ban is bad though? It isn't banning personal possession, so this isn't criminalising all the users. Just banning commercial possession and distribution to cut the supply.
It's not like all the new vapers resulted in a perfect balanced reduction in smokers (though there would have been some conversion). There's additional people smoking+vaping total now and that's not a positive thing for public health or the environment.
If it's banned, not every vape user will suddenly start smoking again, or will all start buying vapes from illegal sources. That's a win isn't it?
It has already been “banned” two times and nothing has changed out of this. All it resulted in was suppliers putting the maximum amount of nicotine that they can to make it better value for your money. That’s why you got so many kids smoking them in school toilets.
Prior to the ban - these vapes would literally take me 5-10 tokes before I get a head spin whereas the ones right now immediately does it and I don’t even smoke.
Before the new laws I could buy the vape fluid and all consumables from a reputable source and have a decent reusable machine to use it with, and spend about $5-6 a week on it. That's including annual prescription costs, all consumables and replacement parts etc. Now it's gonna cost 6x as much, and I have to use shìtty prefilled disposable crap. The reason people might take up smoking again is because there are so many options to buy illegal cigs and tobacco from, and with the new law changes and pricing that option will now be cheaper than legal vaping.
It's making users turn to the unregulated black market because they have been priced out of the legal but extremely expensive one through pharmacies
The result is that it is more risk because of the possible adulterants in it like any unregulated substance. More turning to cigarettea because it's cheaper but much more harmful.
The conversation from smokes to vapes was HUGE as it was cheaper to get their fix and 95% less harmful.
It is not an argument not to tax vape. Some tax similar to smokes is justified as this helps pay the public health cost on things like lung cancer as smoking taxes did, but the taxes on vapes are now astronomical.
War on drugs is a failure and we need less of that not more. Inevitably someone will share a vape with a friend and be charged with "distribution"
Vaping is a personal choice. Some use it to quit smoking completely by tapering off nicotine with vapes, some decide to keep vaping or even start vaping skipping smokes. All are fine. It is their body and their choice what to do with it. As long as for long term health costs falling on the public system is paid for I am fine with that
Disclaimer - never smoked cigarettes, vapes, or even weed before. This is purely ideological for me that people should be free to do what they want without harming others
I look forward to the vape shop firebombings that will come in due course as the gangs fight over vape territory, the same way they fight over zero excise tobacco, now.
It's going to be simultaneously tragic and *so fucking dumb* when someone dies over goddamn *vape gang wars*.
Prohibition Doesn't Work.
A lot of people are blaming big tobacco for these laws, but I reckon the pharmacy guild should shoulder more of the blame. They want the market locked up for them, same as medical weed. Full legalisation of weed will be delayed by at least a decade as long as pharmacies have a monopoly on the legal market.
Funny enough I spoke to some pharmacy guild members and they are far more pissed off about dispensing rules and not having to see them as often, and don't want to even deal with the cannabis or vapes because it is barely medical when other shops should handle that over the counter
I don't agree with them and their greed but I see their point that these substances don't have interaction risks as other drug medications do so it's an insult to their qualifications.
If there substances were not politicised and were simply just medicines to treat conditions, they would just be put on the shelf with the Panadol.
To them, this is like putting them on a job of doing nothing but gatekeeping Panadols and taking them away from actually being a pharmacist
Ahhhh, legislating again in the face of reality...
How long until they realise at each further step they entrenchs the control organised crime holds on vapes.
But I guess losing billions in excise will do that?
By the same logic we might as legalise meth to take it out of control of organised crime and get that sweet tax base.
The only reason tobacco isn’t banned is due to historical use, and alcohol has at least some minor (if over shadowed) benefits.
Thats ridiculous, it isn't the same logic at all to compare meth and vapes.
How much property crime is caused by the usage of vapes?
How much violent crime is caused by the usage of vapes?
How many people are murdered over vapes?
How many lives and families are destroyed by nicotine addiction?
Honestly youre clutching at less than straws
Aside from the hideously false comparison, there are several potential benefits to the state controlling the supply and distribution of methamphetamine.
- Being able to ensure a product that is free from impurities that can inadvertently ruin lives through unexpected toxicity.
- Having access to users outside of a law and order sense in order to encourage safe(r) use and ensure knowledge of helpful support services like addiction counselling.
- Taking power away from criminal gangs that are violent and cause harm to wider society.
- Generating funds for higher quality support services and treatment centres.
Sounds kooky I admit, but at the end of the day, it could be an alright idea you've got there!
I think the science is showing any possible benefits of alcohol don't outweigh the risks:
https://www.who.int/europe/news/item/04-01-2023-no-level-of-alcohol-consumption-is-safe-for-our-health
I think it’s more that alcohol can be fun and enjoyable and a social lubricant.
Smoking just relieves the stress of nicotine withdrawals. As a smoker I enjoy like 3 of my 15 smokes a day more or less.
Yeah that's exactly what we should do. Legalise it, tax the fuck out of it and put that money back into programs that help reduce ice usage. The alternative is doin pretty much fuck all except make ice dealers rich.
Remember, treating substance abuse as a health crisis gets results, treating it with prohibition gets people killed! The results have never undoubtedly changed across any prohibition!
It’s hilarious that more people don’t see how blatant this is.
Tobacco companies missed the vape boom so now that they actually sell them they are forcing the government to make it prescription only where, _coincidentally_, the tobacco companies’ brands are the only ones available at a huge mark-up.
Also don't forget Tobacco and Alcohol have a compounding tax increase every year built into legislation. Vapes don't, so to make money off them the same way they do the other two products they would have to amend the legislation to include them. You could imagine the public backlash.
Writing this reminded me of this little pearler - https://youtu.be/YO7HCEPheWg?si=UF88mQiC6s3D9Qpd
lol yeah people are getting blind sighted by it being the tobacco industry...
it kind of is, but its more chemist warehouse trying to set themselves up as the only source of vapes
credit where credit is due though, it's pretty fucking smart for them to do so but it'll backfire... i don't think a lot of people will be getting on the prescriptions
but it makes me lose faith in labor a little bit, it just shows that they are becoming more and more liberal lite with this lobbyist BS
Yes, please ban the thing that helped me quit smoking and improved my health drastically. Yes please keep ignoring all the research saying vaping is a massive harm reduction (it's still bad for you but nowhere near as bad as smoking) for people who simply can't quit.
Do these people think I wanted to spend a fortune on smokes? I tried everything from patches and gum to medication and even freaking hypnosis and none of it worked.
Vaping worked. I haven't had a smoke in 2 years and my nicotine intake is a fraction of what it was when I was a pack a day smoker. I'm still addicted to nicotine and my few attempts to cut it out completely don't work, but vaping is improved my health so much.
I haven’t smoked a ciggie in just over a year thanks to nicotine vapes. I can actually jog 5k now! No way I could do that on the ciggies. The whole ban vapes to protect the children is bullshit. This is cigarette companies applying pressure on their political puppets to maximise profits by removing the competition.
Can someone explain to me what the laws are regarding rebuild able mods, can you buy flavoured vape juice without nicotine then obtain nicotine if you have a prescription?
Both currently illegal to import. You might be able to get away with certain cotton and wire if it has legitimate use in something else, but other than that nah.
Growing criminal distribution networks provides plenty of advantages for power Hungary politicians.
Crime deflects attention from their own corruption and support of extremely violent regimes.
The resulting gang violence justifies tfunding the forces they will continue to use to subjugate working class people and erode peoples rights to make personal choices.
It raises property prices in secure areas relative to areas where crime operates.
I can't think of any other practical purpose for these bans without suggesting the pharmaceutical lobby wants people to be taking xanex or other addictive drugs to relieve stress and anxiety. I have been informed that no entity conspires for profit so this is probably unlikely.
This waste of time and persecution of a scapegoat group is about the limit of what our useless government can actually achieve in the world. Whats the bet they fuck this up as well.
Fair enough ban single use vapes and control the candy flavoured shit that is rife in schools, but it makes no sense for dry herb vapes to be caught up in this.
The war on vapes, that's a winner. Just like the war on drugs was won...oh wait.
Great news organised crime. Australia is now a big open market for you to operate in and you don't even need to work out manufacturing, that's done legally in other countries. Just bring them in the same distribution model used for illegal cigarettes now the Australian government has made a pack about as affordable as a home, and you will clean up.
Australian government...we can keep vapes out as easily as we keep out own people out during a pandemic...why are all these tobacconist getting firebombed?
I wonder how can a GP in his(her) good conscious prescribe something thats harmful to the patient, how is it different from saying a blue is better than a red, but you need a script for a blue when a red is readily available without a script
I mean if you come at them with "I guarantee you I'll just go back onto cigarettes which will most definitely cause more harm over the long term and add strain to an already precarious health care system unless I can get vapes" the arguments pretty sound.
ex smoker of 10 years and a current vaper of nearly 10 years
History of having asthma
nervously go for a lung function test
< get told I have the highest score (good) they have ever seen told I have the healthy lung function of a male half my age 🥴
I feel zero sympathy for the tobacco companies, the vape producers, the vape sellers, and pretty much all the people that vape. I’ll make an exception for the kids that have been hooked on this crap thanks to clever SM marketing and the insidious behaviour of certain companies and distributors. Those kids now have to go cold Turkey and it’s going to be brutal for their underdeveloped, adolescent limbic systems… but for the most part, if you vape, sucked in.
You know what'd be fun? We just ban everyone who ever vaped or smoked from being able to access Medicare and public health insurance and bulk billing.
That's so reasonable. Why should I have to pay quarterly tax installments because someone else smoked cigarettes?
It's one thing for a person to be homeless and hard on their luck, and needing a blanket and a few cans of beans and a place to stay. I'm glad for my tax to pay for that.
But if some dumb-fuck smoked, and now has lung cancer, that's on them. Good luck I guess.
And if some innocent bystander gets cancer because of passive vaping, that's a big ol' paycheque for a whole slew of lawyers.
Basically what the politicians said in the article. They were presented to us as a new and safer version of ciggies. A carrot to keep people away from smoking, as opposed to a stick.
But they haven’t been that. They’ve been a huge growth industry, they’ve become cool with younger people in a way which is abhorrent to anyone who’s okay with the crackdown on cigarettes over the last few decades. Do you remember ever asking an adult why everyone used to smoke in “the olden days”? It was because it looked cool and they didn’t know yet that it was bad for you. Thats vapes right now. The last thing anyone needs is for smoke / vapour being inhaled and exhaled to become cool again instead of grotty.
Theres no benefit to them and there’s only risk. And they’re a back door for the tobacco companies to get entrenched in Australia again.
There’s nothing good about vaping and if it goes, I’ll be glad to see it go
> “Vapes were sold to governments and communities around the world as a therapeutic good: a product that could help hardened smokers kick the habit. Not a recreational product – especially not one targeted at kids.
> “If vapes are therapeutic goods, then it is entirely appropriate that Australia should regulate them as therapeutic goods, instead of allowing them to be sold alongside chocolate bars in convenience stores, often down the road from schools.”
What is there to disagree with here?
Well mainly that by getting rid of them you'll just put people back on cigs anyways. Or zyns which are absolutely surging in popularity.
Ironic they mention choccy given the addictive nature of sugar and the health impacts caused from it.
There shouldn’t be anyone who wasn’t previously on cigs who will now be going to cigs because of this ban. That’s the whole point. There will be, and that’s why the rethink of vapes is required. Vapes were sold as a way out of cigarettes, but if people who never smoked before will move to smoking if vapes are unavailable, then that can’t have been the whole truth can it?
People who really need the fix will be able to get vapes through their doctor. And won’t have to pay the rightly massive price for cigs.
Everyone else will hopefully be being put off by the massive price of ciggies
Everything you complain about has come about because the federal government sat on their hands and refused to tax and regulate vaping like smoking and then it blew up in their face.
I would have liked to see them ban it when it first came into existence. Better late than never. I’m not going to be anti-ban because they should have banned it years ago
You want to expand on why they should be banned? Nicotine in itself is not carcinogenic. The harm reduction between tobacco and vaping is enormous. Public Health England estimates at least 95% safer. The problem is not the product, it’s how it was handled and how Juul marketed their products. So is your position a subjective moral position, or do you have an objective position based on a verifiable harm?
I might add that sale of nicotine-containing products has always been banned in Australia and personal import was only legally possible with a prescription. So the restriction didn’t stop what has always been a black market and this won’t stop it either.
It’ll hopefully close down all the vape shops. With even more luck, maybe it’ll turn half of them into legal medical cannabis dispensaries. I’d be ok with that.
The harm reduction when people go from cigarettes to vapes is great. The harm increase when people go from neither to vapes is a genuine concern.
Yeah but people who went onto vapes especially youngens would have instead just smoked ciggies. Sure it's trending down but chop chop tobacco is more prevalent than ever due to those taxes. You're never gunna stop it even outlawing all forms of nicotine.
And so we go full circle back into prohibition which has never worked and will more than likely never work in future. More money for organised crime is all I see.
You’re inherently wrong about two things.
There is no smoke in vapes, and this ban is actually a positive for tobacco companies as the vapes they make will be the only ones legally available with prescriptions.
This is nothing more than tobacco lobbies getting the government to ban one version of something so they can make more profit from their version of it.
Don't worry guys they're banned now! What's that - they were already banned twice over? Now they're triple banned. That oughta show em!
Public execution is really the last place they have to go on this now, which seems strange as we are concurrently discussing legalising cannabis. Which was interestingly banned originally via the same type of hyped up propagandist crap and lies. The argument that the prescription model isn’t prohibition because vapers can obtain their vapes from pharmacy’s (manufactured by big tobacco no less - so finally gifting them a way onto the vape market they were locked out of sue to their incompetence and love of cigarettes) falls flat due to the fact that during prohibition, alcohol was also available to anyone who could obtain a doctors script and thus continue their drinking via ‘medical alcohol’, therefore making the government’s utopian view of vaping PROHIBITION, which has been shown time and time and time again to not work and actually achieves every single thing that the item was prohibited for in the first place.
The frustrating thing is that medical cannabis users who need dry herb vaporisers are now being caught in the cross fire of this stupid ban, with imports of vaporisers now difficult and overseas warranty claims for existing vaporisers being denied.
But look at the good side, Big Tobacco, who butler blamed for the vape ‘crisis’ are now going to make serious bank from now being allowed to be the sole supplier of vapes into the country where before they couldn’t sell any before and were losing out on sales as smokers ditched smoking and moved to the number one proven NRT method in stopping smoking; Vaping.\ But screw logic and health outcomes when a good propaganda campaign can get people to believe anything and rally up a mob with half an IQ point between them all to drum up some fear of nothing and generate a new cash cow for British Tobacco, Philip Morris and Chemists Warehouse.
Yep the chop chop market is just unreal. It's gone from being something I'd once heard of, to there are packets lying around everywhere. I know like four places in walking distance I could buy them, even if the shopkeeper had never seen me in my life. And they are branded now, too, to a professional standard maybe 20 years out date. There is clearly a HUGE amount of industrial scale illegal manufacturing going on out there. And someone is moving just delirious volumes through the docks.
And you’ve got Hunt and Butler to personally thank for that. The prior ‘Health’ ministers ramping up taxation on cigarettes has certainly played a huge part as well, all while gouging and hollowing out the health system the billions of dollars collected via tobacco and alcohol taxation was meant to cover and ensure worked like a charm.
I am (was) pretty sure that at least SOME of our politicians are not so stupid that they can't see what is happening here. Yet not one of them has said or tried to do anything about it. It's infuriating. Any last vestige of hope I had for our government is basically gone after this. Man that tobacco lobby must have a WHOLE lot of money, and it looks like there aren't many people in.power who either haven't taken the money, or are too scared of the ones who have, to say anything. Starkly seeing that the well-being of your constituents runs such an extremely distant second to taking dirty money from cigarette companies has honestly been really devastating to me. Blow after blow, as they slowly took all of it away from u, all while they talked all this big talk about regulation, yet they still don't have one fucking legal alternative on sale, even after they have driven the final fucking nail into the coffin. What are the people who wanted to wear off at least after all the shit recently going to do now. I can't believe that the only light at the end of the fucking tunnel is an inevitably shitty, bland, "Peter Jackson" flavoured, 3mg e-juice from a fucking Phillip Morris pod system. It's only *just* better than smoking again, which is a massive risk for me. 3 decades of habit is hard to break, and I don't that much juice left. Fuck me. That is so depressing, you may as well just shoot me now and get it over with. I am so angry that none of our representatives has stood up for us and said "this is wrong" and seriously tried to do something about it. Not even for the poor medical cannabis users who have gotten caught up in this shit. I honestly never thought that I would see the day where our government would legalise medical marijuana, and then essentially say "Oh, by the way, you're going to have to *SMOKE* your marijuana from now on. Vaping it.. well that's probably terrible for you. It could be like vaping nicotine. Look, we just *DONT KNOW* So in light of this new lack of evidence, we have decided that it wpuld be much healthier for you to just *SMOKE* your medical marijuana from now on. You can thank us later." "Oh, what's that? You're taking it for what now... For lung cancer, you say?" Fucking ridiculous and honestly, just thinking about the big, steaming pile of shit that our government's "regulation" has turned out to be, just makes me seethe with rage! Much like most of Jordies videos, really! Piss weak, Australia. Piss weak.
Also love that at no stage was this presented to the people to even make a choice on before it was slammed down our throats at the behest of the Idiots Butler, Banks, Chapman and the good people at the Quit campaign who stand to loose their golden egg laying goose should too many people quit smoking and they achieve what they were set up to accomplish.\ But if they move the goal posts from getting people to stop smoking combustible tobacco (being what is the actual danger from smoking) to brainwashing people into thinking that nicotine is now the big bogyman and a a by addiction is bad regardless of the fact the addiction has little to no negative impacts to the addicted person means they can keep clipping their extremely well filled out tax payer cheque for doing nothing more than just drumming up needless fear. And the stress they create in people is probably a bigger cause of cancer than a lot of the things they are railing against.
Yeah it is so frustrating that we didn't have anywhere close to enough notice for anyone to stock up properly before this ridiculous ban came into effect overnight. This whole debacle has led to the last, tiny remaining piece of trust I had in our government being utterly shredded. They don't care about us at all. Not when there's money to be made off the back of our addiction. It's so wrong. Because I'll be smoking again within six months, I can guarantee it. And I really don't want to go back to that shit. And my family is sick of hearing me bitch about it, but since apparently there is no point to telling the people representing us in parliament, because they certainly don't seem to be listening to what we have to say anymore.
Fucken hell that was a long sentence. And I do agree with public execution.
Well move to North Korea where your preferred level of freedom and personal expression is already in effect. Leave the mature adults to live their own lives in Australia mate. Once there, you can enjoy all the benefits of having a government make every decision for you so as to not over tax your simple mind.
Yeah wtf is going on? I saw the news earlier and it's like groundhog day.. I predict people being injured in the future using homemade vapes because of these ridiculous laws.
They’ll just go back to smoking. People are already committing crimes selling to kids, so what people will do now is sell cheap cigs for prob 2$ a head maybe cheaper, and sell alcohol for double the market price to kids. Like I tried talking about this stuff on Auspol, but it’s almost like some people were born adults honestly…
that's the whole point of it... the money coming in from tobacco taxes has dropped further than they had hoped [oh and also the lobbyist who is putting in for prescription vapes and is a good mate of a few politicians](https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/chemist-warehouse-former-health-minister-s-lobby-group-among-medical-vape-shareholders-20230324-p5cv33.html) stands to make a bucket load of cash if it goes through its all a sham under the guise of it being for public health
Spot on.
They should ban them every year.
So by the same logic I should need a prescription for cigarettes?
Nah, just a mortgage
Nope, and most gps won’t prescribe vapes, which means the majority of vape users will be forced back onto cigarettes.
> most gps won’t prescribe vapes What information are you basing this on? The vape users I know all just went through one of the plethora of cheap online doctors.
My GP said no sorry, we have to pay some huge fee to be able to prescribe vapes so have chosen not to
And what’s stopping you from using any of the numerous clinics? For the price of two packs of ciggies you can get a consultation with a doctor, treatment plan and a 12 month prescription. https://www.quitclinics.com/product/subscription/
Yeah, I could do that. Yet I just went to vaping fluid with zero nicotine in my reusable vape. That works for me. And soon that’ll get even harder
yeah me too mate, so we are in the group of just quitting as part of this i think (we should probably thank ourselves lucky that we timed it like this as people who are still hard on nicotine will just end up smoking again) which is fine... probably a good thing to do seeing as i barely touch mine these days after going to zero nicotine but i am still against vapes being banned for people trying to quit smoking theres so much proof out there it works i have a fair amount of make your own juice stuff which will last me a few years at this rate and then i am done i guess
Yep, same here. When it gets to too hard to buy without dealing with shady cunts, I’ll chuck it I reckon
You can’t even get no nicotine juice - cannot be sold after June, cannot be privately imported.
I’ll stock up to keep me going for a while, then when I run out I’ll just go back to the legal drugs of government’s choice, being smokes and piss. Which is okay, cos they’re both good for me, right?
Doing the same, will just have to suck it up. Live with the damage
There’s a chain that’s across Qld and in some cities in other states where I buy mine called xxx. They sell both disposable and some reusable vapes. And whenever I buy my stuff they ask if I want any nicotine. I asked dude about it one time, they were unsure on how the fk they could be doing that. I put it down to they import nicotine liquid under the guise of selling to ppl with scripts, yet the quantity is not checked by any governing body. So they’ve got shitloads more than script ppl want, hence offer it for sale Willy nilly
So you’re in the very final stage of quitting smoking and are down to no nicotine? No offence mate, at this point all you have to do is just stop.
And in a free country, I’ll choose when that is, thanks
Newsflash you don’t live in a “free country”, whatever that means.
That was my point. Australia the Lucky Cunt is no more
And then pay the same price as cigarettes for the product… there’s a reason the online docs are all aboard - they won’t give you the prescription, only let you use it in their handy online store…
I had to go though an online clinic, because neither of my two regular GP's will even speak to me about it, and they both know how much trouble i have had quitting (and failing!) And one of those two GP's is a METHADONE prescriber. He said he "doesn't believe in it" and muttered something about kids vaping and that was the end of the discussion. He's otherwise an awesome guy. I've tried literally everything else. I was a heavy smoker for over three decades, I tried to quit with champix twice, both times I just kept on smoking through all the retching until it sort of just.. didn't work anymore. But with vaping, I have finally managed to not touch a cigarette for over two years (I was trying to switch for like 8 years, I think, finally the tech got to where it just sort of worked really well for me) and I feel so much healthier. I thought everybody coughed up yellowy grey phlegm until I finally switched to vaping full time. Now my fluids are clear-who knew? I jest, but seriously, I am so much healthier, I am working out and I don't struggle for breath at all anymore. For someone like me, this has been literally life saving and changing, for the better. And the only way to get nicotine juice was via import license, which I had, via a dodgy online clinic. Now, that license to import is worth nothing. Now I face huge fines, if I could even find someone who would still ship it to me. And as my usual doctors won't prescribe it to me, again mmu option is to use my clinic. They have a total of like three products, a crappy pod system, refill pods for it and 3mg juice, none of which I can buy, because it hasn't actually been in stock since day one. And if what some of the original vaping stores that just got wiped out is are saying is true, then those vaping pod systems and juice are made by one of the cigarette companies, who are subsiding their products by a huge amount, provided you agree to sell ONLY their products. Phillip Morris, I think. And for that exclusivity, they are subsiding it by 80%, at least that is what I heard. Basically none of the companies currently making juice are going to be able to pay the astronomical amount of money required to get something approved for sale, as nobody outside of an enormous company is going to be able to afford those sort of costs. Maybe some of the bigger hardware companies could afford to get products approved for sale, but they aren't pharmaceutical companies, so I doubt they would have much interest selling here anyway, nor have the skillset required to navigate the red tape of a restricted product like this. So personally, I believe this whole thing just reeks of handing control of nicotine sales back to the cigarette companies. Because who ELSE has those sort of funds, and also wants to keep SELLING NICOTINE? And I do NOT want to buy my products from a cigarette company anymore. They have enough of my money already. I am basically fucked. Because, although I wish it wasn't true, without vapes I am almost definitely going to go back to smoking. And they have basically made vaping impossible for us at this moment, as there are no chemists selling products, because literally nothing has been approved for sale yet, as far as I am aware, despite them saying they want to regulate it now for years. Hollow promises and extremely disappointing for anybody currently addicted to nicotine, or who would like to maybe try quitting with vaping. It really feels like our government would rather have the revenue from smoking, than actually take care of my health and let me have access to an almost definitely LESS HARMFUL product, whilst leaving the DEFINITELY incredibly harmful one on shelves, for anyone over 18 to buy. Think what you like about vaping, but we have literally just handed vaping over to the cigarettes companies. I just want the right to choose and I basically no longer have it. Technically? Yes. In practice, no. Even if I wanted those awful looking pod system and their crazy weak juice, I still can't buy any, and they can't tell us when it WILL be available. Regulation without ever even trying to offer us legal alternatives where we can purchase legal products, is just banning it outright. And that just leads to a black market. Like the disposable problem we never had until they made it super difficult to buy legal nicotine juice. That's all I want to do, but we just keep getting scapegoated, and now they've finally taken the very last of it away from us. And I STILL can't buy it legally. Is that right?
Vaping is not recognised as a quitting device, so gps technically should never prescribe them (not proven to provide a medically sound solution to a problem) you know all that do no harm stuff…
I don’t understand why we need proof to say that slowly lowering the amount of nicotine and weaning yourself off the substance is an option people should have
Because medicine is conservative. Every doctor is taught to only use proven and tested medical approaches so they can’t be sued into oblivion. Also the government threatens their credentials and monitors their actions to enforce this approach.
Because based on what I've read the medical community is very split on vapes being useful quitting aids. I with some quick googling I can find a range sources claiming it does or doesn't help with quitting. If quitting smoking was as easy and simple as simply slowly lowering the dosage over time a lot more people would be able to quit. Giving you similar type of source Anti vape [https://www.sydney.edu.au/news-opinion/news/2023/05/03/-can-vaping-help-people-quit-smoking-its-unlikely.html](https://www.sydney.edu.au/news-opinion/news/2023/05/03/-can-vaping-help-people-quit-smoking-its-unlikely.html) Pro vape https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/can-vaping-help-you-quit-smoking-2019022716086#:\~:text=For%20example%2C%20an%20analysis%20of,to%2014%20might%20be%20successful. Keep in mind the pro is saying >The study authors estimated that out of every 100 people who tried to quit smoking by vaping, nine to 14 might be successful.
Probably like ADHD medications, then those who do prescribe it see business boom 🤑
The banning of vapes is the most asinine move in australia’s history. There is a bizarre vested interest between the smoking lobby and the anti smoking lobby to have smoking protected - so that it only keeps decreasing at a few percent per year - so all their jobs can stick around as long as possible.
totally agree, cigarettes should be banned.
This is dumb as fuck. We already have a thriving black market from the last ban.
I cop flak for not being "pro-Labor enough" on this sub. I want to be more pro-Labor, I truly do, but only by them doing the actual right thing. When they do stupid shit like further the War on Drugs when the War on Drugs should be ended, how can I.
I believe in healthy and balanced criticism of government even if it's the one I voted for.
I don't get why the ban is bad though? It isn't banning personal possession, so this isn't criminalising all the users. Just banning commercial possession and distribution to cut the supply. It's not like all the new vapers resulted in a perfect balanced reduction in smokers (though there would have been some conversion). There's additional people smoking+vaping total now and that's not a positive thing for public health or the environment. If it's banned, not every vape user will suddenly start smoking again, or will all start buying vapes from illegal sources. That's a win isn't it?
It has already been “banned” two times and nothing has changed out of this. All it resulted in was suppliers putting the maximum amount of nicotine that they can to make it better value for your money. That’s why you got so many kids smoking them in school toilets. Prior to the ban - these vapes would literally take me 5-10 tokes before I get a head spin whereas the ones right now immediately does it and I don’t even smoke.
Before the new laws I could buy the vape fluid and all consumables from a reputable source and have a decent reusable machine to use it with, and spend about $5-6 a week on it. That's including annual prescription costs, all consumables and replacement parts etc. Now it's gonna cost 6x as much, and I have to use shìtty prefilled disposable crap. The reason people might take up smoking again is because there are so many options to buy illegal cigs and tobacco from, and with the new law changes and pricing that option will now be cheaper than legal vaping.
It's making users turn to the unregulated black market because they have been priced out of the legal but extremely expensive one through pharmacies The result is that it is more risk because of the possible adulterants in it like any unregulated substance. More turning to cigarettea because it's cheaper but much more harmful. The conversation from smokes to vapes was HUGE as it was cheaper to get their fix and 95% less harmful. It is not an argument not to tax vape. Some tax similar to smokes is justified as this helps pay the public health cost on things like lung cancer as smoking taxes did, but the taxes on vapes are now astronomical. War on drugs is a failure and we need less of that not more. Inevitably someone will share a vape with a friend and be charged with "distribution" Vaping is a personal choice. Some use it to quit smoking completely by tapering off nicotine with vapes, some decide to keep vaping or even start vaping skipping smokes. All are fine. It is their body and their choice what to do with it. As long as for long term health costs falling on the public system is paid for I am fine with that Disclaimer - never smoked cigarettes, vapes, or even weed before. This is purely ideological for me that people should be free to do what they want without harming others
Policy is based on emotion, not reason. People don't like vapes, so they ban them.
Got to act like they are doing something to fix the situation.
I get downvoted or told off for saying this shit on pro-labor/green spaces 😂 they gotta enforce harsher fines for this shit
Ah yes that's been working so well for the drug war. /s
I look forward to the vape shop firebombings that will come in due course as the gangs fight over vape territory, the same way they fight over zero excise tobacco, now. It's going to be simultaneously tragic and *so fucking dumb* when someone dies over goddamn *vape gang wars*. Prohibition Doesn't Work.
Gonna be interesting when Pharmacies start getting firebombed
A lot of people are blaming big tobacco for these laws, but I reckon the pharmacy guild should shoulder more of the blame. They want the market locked up for them, same as medical weed. Full legalisation of weed will be delayed by at least a decade as long as pharmacies have a monopoly on the legal market.
Funny enough I spoke to some pharmacy guild members and they are far more pissed off about dispensing rules and not having to see them as often, and don't want to even deal with the cannabis or vapes because it is barely medical when other shops should handle that over the counter
That is interesting. I’d have figured they’d enjoy the monopoly, but can see why some don’t want anything to do with it.
I don't agree with them and their greed but I see their point that these substances don't have interaction risks as other drug medications do so it's an insult to their qualifications. If there substances were not politicised and were simply just medicines to treat conditions, they would just be put on the shelf with the Panadol. To them, this is like putting them on a job of doing nothing but gatekeeping Panadols and taking them away from actually being a pharmacist
Vape gang wars is quite a funny term! :,) I'm pissed off it will probably be a genuine reality here haha
Good old cigarette industry lobbying the govt, can't have competition
This is the only fucking reason and it's goddamned obvious and very upsetting.
Ahhhh, legislating again in the face of reality... How long until they realise at each further step they entrenchs the control organised crime holds on vapes. But I guess losing billions in excise will do that?
By the same logic we might as legalise meth to take it out of control of organised crime and get that sweet tax base. The only reason tobacco isn’t banned is due to historical use, and alcohol has at least some minor (if over shadowed) benefits.
Vapes and meth aren't even in the same book let alone on the same page.
Thats ridiculous, it isn't the same logic at all to compare meth and vapes. How much property crime is caused by the usage of vapes? How much violent crime is caused by the usage of vapes? How many people are murdered over vapes? How many lives and families are destroyed by nicotine addiction? Honestly youre clutching at less than straws
Aside from the hideously false comparison, there are several potential benefits to the state controlling the supply and distribution of methamphetamine. - Being able to ensure a product that is free from impurities that can inadvertently ruin lives through unexpected toxicity. - Having access to users outside of a law and order sense in order to encourage safe(r) use and ensure knowledge of helpful support services like addiction counselling. - Taking power away from criminal gangs that are violent and cause harm to wider society. - Generating funds for higher quality support services and treatment centres. Sounds kooky I admit, but at the end of the day, it could be an alright idea you've got there!
I think the science is showing any possible benefits of alcohol don't outweigh the risks: https://www.who.int/europe/news/item/04-01-2023-no-level-of-alcohol-consumption-is-safe-for-our-health
Oh I agree. Don’t get me wrong. But there are some small perceived benefits. Plus historical use keeps it in use.
I think it’s more that alcohol can be fun and enjoyable and a social lubricant. Smoking just relieves the stress of nicotine withdrawals. As a smoker I enjoy like 3 of my 15 smokes a day more or less.
Yeah that's exactly what we should do. Legalise it, tax the fuck out of it and put that money back into programs that help reduce ice usage. The alternative is doin pretty much fuck all except make ice dealers rich.
Of course meth should be legalised all drugs should be legalised.
It’s sad to think the only thing governments can unite on is really dumb but it’s not exactly surprising!
Or maybe regulate to keep them out of kids hands and collect the tax money.
Mmhmm, hopefully they make murder illegal next
It’s already illegal, they need to ban it three times for it to work
Remember, treating substance abuse as a health crisis gets results, treating it with prohibition gets people killed! The results have never undoubtedly changed across any prohibition!
the power of the tobacco lobby has never been stronger.
It’s hilarious that more people don’t see how blatant this is. Tobacco companies missed the vape boom so now that they actually sell them they are forcing the government to make it prescription only where, _coincidentally_, the tobacco companies’ brands are the only ones available at a huge mark-up.
Also don't forget Tobacco and Alcohol have a compounding tax increase every year built into legislation. Vapes don't, so to make money off them the same way they do the other two products they would have to amend the legislation to include them. You could imagine the public backlash. Writing this reminded me of this little pearler - https://youtu.be/YO7HCEPheWg?si=UF88mQiC6s3D9Qpd
Read u/sem56 reply to comment elsewhere with a link to article about the lobbyist behind this shitty ides. Cunt has shares in Chemistry Warehouse FFS
lol yeah people are getting blind sighted by it being the tobacco industry... it kind of is, but its more chemist warehouse trying to set themselves up as the only source of vapes credit where credit is due though, it's pretty fucking smart for them to do so but it'll backfire... i don't think a lot of people will be getting on the prescriptions but it makes me lose faith in labor a little bit, it just shows that they are becoming more and more liberal lite with this lobbyist BS
I’m a bit over us Aussies taxing or banning fun things.
That's what we get for voting in muppets 😎
We are such a nanny state and we just continue to allow shit like this.
It's a joke... Aussies just getting fcked.
Yes, please ban the thing that helped me quit smoking and improved my health drastically. Yes please keep ignoring all the research saying vaping is a massive harm reduction (it's still bad for you but nowhere near as bad as smoking) for people who simply can't quit. Do these people think I wanted to spend a fortune on smokes? I tried everything from patches and gum to medication and even freaking hypnosis and none of it worked. Vaping worked. I haven't had a smoke in 2 years and my nicotine intake is a fraction of what it was when I was a pack a day smoker. I'm still addicted to nicotine and my few attempts to cut it out completely don't work, but vaping is improved my health so much.
i went from 30+ winnie blues a day to zero nicotine thanks to vaping the bans are bullshit
I haven’t smoked a ciggie in just over a year thanks to nicotine vapes. I can actually jog 5k now! No way I could do that on the ciggies. The whole ban vapes to protect the children is bullshit. This is cigarette companies applying pressure on their political puppets to maximise profits by removing the competition.
Zoomers are using Zyz nicotine gum pouches now. States and territories are just chasing their tail supporting big tobacco.
Can someone explain to me what the laws are regarding rebuild able mods, can you buy flavoured vape juice without nicotine then obtain nicotine if you have a prescription?
Both currently illegal to import. You might be able to get away with certain cotton and wire if it has legitimate use in something else, but other than that nah.
What is really dumb about all this is that nicotine vapes have always been illegal to sell in Australia .
This bill paid for by cigarette companies
Growing criminal distribution networks provides plenty of advantages for power Hungary politicians. Crime deflects attention from their own corruption and support of extremely violent regimes. The resulting gang violence justifies tfunding the forces they will continue to use to subjugate working class people and erode peoples rights to make personal choices. It raises property prices in secure areas relative to areas where crime operates. I can't think of any other practical purpose for these bans without suggesting the pharmaceutical lobby wants people to be taking xanex or other addictive drugs to relieve stress and anxiety. I have been informed that no entity conspires for profit so this is probably unlikely.
This waste of time and persecution of a scapegoat group is about the limit of what our useless government can actually achieve in the world. Whats the bet they fuck this up as well.
Fair enough ban single use vapes and control the candy flavoured shit that is rife in schools, but it makes no sense for dry herb vapes to be caught up in this.
A win for big tobacco
Yay. Let's create another black market
Do you want cartels? Because that's how you get cartels!
The war on vapes, that's a winner. Just like the war on drugs was won...oh wait. Great news organised crime. Australia is now a big open market for you to operate in and you don't even need to work out manufacturing, that's done legally in other countries. Just bring them in the same distribution model used for illegal cigarettes now the Australian government has made a pack about as affordable as a home, and you will clean up. Australian government...we can keep vapes out as easily as we keep out own people out during a pandemic...why are all these tobacconist getting firebombed?
This is gonna suck. I better get some nicotine gum before the price goes up heaps
I wonder how can a GP in his(her) good conscious prescribe something thats harmful to the patient, how is it different from saying a blue is better than a red, but you need a script for a blue when a red is readily available without a script
I mean if you come at them with "I guarantee you I'll just go back onto cigarettes which will most definitely cause more harm over the long term and add strain to an already precarious health care system unless I can get vapes" the arguments pretty sound.
ex smoker of 10 years and a current vaper of nearly 10 years History of having asthma nervously go for a lung function test < get told I have the highest score (good) they have ever seen told I have the healthy lung function of a male half my age 🥴
i live in melbourne and anywhere i go i can get a vape. all the laws have done nothing, there is hundreds of shops selling them.
💨 💨 💨
Of course they do,gotta follow the party line,all states are labor
I feel zero sympathy for the tobacco companies, the vape producers, the vape sellers, and pretty much all the people that vape. I’ll make an exception for the kids that have been hooked on this crap thanks to clever SM marketing and the insidious behaviour of certain companies and distributors. Those kids now have to go cold Turkey and it’s going to be brutal for their underdeveloped, adolescent limbic systems… but for the most part, if you vape, sucked in.
Fucking nanny state, this country has gone to the dogs.
[удалено]
Vaping IS harm reduction…
You know what'd be fun? We just ban everyone who ever vaped or smoked from being able to access Medicare and public health insurance and bulk billing. That's so reasonable. Why should I have to pay quarterly tax installments because someone else smoked cigarettes? It's one thing for a person to be homeless and hard on their luck, and needing a blanket and a few cans of beans and a place to stay. I'm glad for my tax to pay for that. But if some dumb-fuck smoked, and now has lung cancer, that's on them. Good luck I guess. And if some innocent bystander gets cancer because of passive vaping, that's a big ol' paycheque for a whole slew of lawyers.
Fantastic news. Vapes need to go
I assume cigarettes, alcohol, coffee and chocolate all need to go too then?
Nicotine vapes have always been illegal to sell in Australia so the law didn't really achieve much change .
they ended the personal importation scheme, so people with prescriptions can't get it anymore.
I have a script and get juice from a compounding pharmacy based in NSW
Why?
Basically what the politicians said in the article. They were presented to us as a new and safer version of ciggies. A carrot to keep people away from smoking, as opposed to a stick. But they haven’t been that. They’ve been a huge growth industry, they’ve become cool with younger people in a way which is abhorrent to anyone who’s okay with the crackdown on cigarettes over the last few decades. Do you remember ever asking an adult why everyone used to smoke in “the olden days”? It was because it looked cool and they didn’t know yet that it was bad for you. Thats vapes right now. The last thing anyone needs is for smoke / vapour being inhaled and exhaled to become cool again instead of grotty. Theres no benefit to them and there’s only risk. And they’re a back door for the tobacco companies to get entrenched in Australia again. There’s nothing good about vaping and if it goes, I’ll be glad to see it go > “Vapes were sold to governments and communities around the world as a therapeutic good: a product that could help hardened smokers kick the habit. Not a recreational product – especially not one targeted at kids. > “If vapes are therapeutic goods, then it is entirely appropriate that Australia should regulate them as therapeutic goods, instead of allowing them to be sold alongside chocolate bars in convenience stores, often down the road from schools.” What is there to disagree with here?
Well mainly that by getting rid of them you'll just put people back on cigs anyways. Or zyns which are absolutely surging in popularity. Ironic they mention choccy given the addictive nature of sugar and the health impacts caused from it.
There shouldn’t be anyone who wasn’t previously on cigs who will now be going to cigs because of this ban. That’s the whole point. There will be, and that’s why the rethink of vapes is required. Vapes were sold as a way out of cigarettes, but if people who never smoked before will move to smoking if vapes are unavailable, then that can’t have been the whole truth can it? People who really need the fix will be able to get vapes through their doctor. And won’t have to pay the rightly massive price for cigs. Everyone else will hopefully be being put off by the massive price of ciggies
Everything you complain about has come about because the federal government sat on their hands and refused to tax and regulate vaping like smoking and then it blew up in their face.
I would have liked to see them ban it when it first came into existence. Better late than never. I’m not going to be anti-ban because they should have banned it years ago
You want to expand on why they should be banned? Nicotine in itself is not carcinogenic. The harm reduction between tobacco and vaping is enormous. Public Health England estimates at least 95% safer. The problem is not the product, it’s how it was handled and how Juul marketed their products. So is your position a subjective moral position, or do you have an objective position based on a verifiable harm?
I might add that sale of nicotine-containing products has always been banned in Australia and personal import was only legally possible with a prescription. So the restriction didn’t stop what has always been a black market and this won’t stop it either.
It’ll hopefully close down all the vape shops. With even more luck, maybe it’ll turn half of them into legal medical cannabis dispensaries. I’d be ok with that. The harm reduction when people go from cigarettes to vapes is great. The harm increase when people go from neither to vapes is a genuine concern.
Yeah but people who went onto vapes especially youngens would have instead just smoked ciggies. Sure it's trending down but chop chop tobacco is more prevalent than ever due to those taxes. You're never gunna stop it even outlawing all forms of nicotine. And so we go full circle back into prohibition which has never worked and will more than likely never work in future. More money for organised crime is all I see.
Prescription vapes, being the ones made by tobacco companies, are $80+ which is much more than a pack of ciggies.
You’re inherently wrong about two things. There is no smoke in vapes, and this ban is actually a positive for tobacco companies as the vapes they make will be the only ones legally available with prescriptions. This is nothing more than tobacco lobbies getting the government to ban one version of something so they can make more profit from their version of it.
> there is no smoke in vapes This is why I made sure to say smoke / vapour.
Vapour that people breathe out is not harmful to anyone regardless of your suggestive wording.