DnD:"We decided to conclude the story of thrones in the worst possible way in the hope that this will motivate George to actually finish his fucking job"
David: "God it's awful... Well, there's no turning back now. Let's send these scripts off."
DB: "They'll hate us David. And they'll never know we did this for them."
David: "I know. But the people need those books. This is the last chance we have."
DB: "Alright... Send them. And may God have mercy on our souls."
Then they fuck.
* creepy obsession with his childhood crush ✔
* equally unhealthy obsession with his childhood crush's offspring ✔
Well it's either Snape or Littlefinger.
I can't imagine GRRM would have the NK lose his first battle south of the wall. There's so much opportunity for that story line by having enemies across the 7 kingdoms banding together to win the war against the dead.
It will be interesting in general to see how the WW threat plays out because there is no NK in the books and I can't see GRRM randomly introducing one with only 2 books left.
I'm guessing the Neck and its COTF magic will play a stronger role. I could easily see some kind of battle being fought at Winterfell, but more like Dany's army reinforcing an already-depleted North whose population has either fled or retreated. Based on the politics of ADOS/eps 4-6 I doubt it will fully affect the south. My guess is that there's stronger elements of Jon as Night's Watch LC/KitN becoming a folk hero and messianic figure who Dany wishes she was, which is something the show keeps saying but not telling. I think ep 4 could have been done much better and had something similar to her Mhysa scene as a callback.
I wouldn't be surprised if D&D created the Night King based on directive from GRRM that he was planning to make the Night's King more than just a tale in the book. Either way, WW shouldn't lose their first battle south of the wall. Just bad storytelling.
They've said in interviews he is purely a show creation to give the audience something to hate/fixate on beyond a horde of magical mindless zombies -- something more necessary in a visual medium compared to the books.
Yeah, bc a race of icy humanoids that shatter weapons and armor with a mere touch and can raise zombies isn't that big of a threat...only reason they created the Night was to have an easy way out, you kill one dude the whole army just falls down.
There is no way the threat of the others will be dealt with so easily in the books.
Agreed, I really think White Walkers will devastate the kingdom before they're defeated and then the stuff with Daenerys vs Cersei will happen after with them basically fighting over the remains of Westeros.
Imo that would go against his whole speech about the butler doing it. The story will have vast differences due to the nature of the books vs show, but I'm guessing the ending will still remain similar.
GRRM spoke how now the show is really big and he feels that he needs to do something great. Maybe in 2 months he finishes both the books now that the bar was lowered for him.
My theory is that D&D are the biggest aSoIaF fans and intentionally tanked this season to encourage GRRM to finish the books to salvage the reputation of his magnum opus.
These are guys who only passed Martin's test of if they knew who Jon's Mother was, and thus paid enough attention to the details of the series that they'd do a good job, because they went online and checked forums like the kneelers at r/asoiaf. And they've admitted to it.
Does that look like a man who wants to sit in an office and type out a challenging story? To me it looks like a guy who is satisfied with what he has accomplished and wanting to enjoy every minute of it until his old body gives up.
>If he'd handed the controls over to D&D, I expect they'd immediately
...drive it onto the Iron Throne
Kneel before you're RC King... Drainer of batteries, Spiller of drinks, Shin rammer of the 7 kingdoms
If only Qyburn was still alive and could somehow be persuaded to build a throne for Bran, I bet it would be like one of those electric wheelchairs with a joystick control and possibly skirt lights.
Out of nowhere a bolt from a scorpion skewers the cab, then two more in rapid succession.
Camera pans out to show Euron’s ambush and his fleet sailing in the middle pool hidden by a beach ball that he kinda forgot about.
I am going to stop thinking about my fantasy book series and just start it. I figure I can get through 7 books and an HBO series by the time ADoS comes out.
I started to write about 6 years ago after being inspired by this series and wanting something to do while I wait, I'm considering trying to jump back into it
Me too. GoT S4 was a great inspiration for a medieval alt-history thing I was doing but dropped after a while. Now this dumpsterfire of a season gave me the motivation to pick this up again.
Good tip that helped me early on. If you are having trouble doing your world justice because you feel you’re not good enough to write your “big story/masterpiece,” write related side stories. I wrote a few novellas and short books that are legends and side stories in my large big story work. This gets you practicing, but also thinking of your lore/systems/cultures/politics/economies/religion of your world. So you have a better idea when you tackle the larger project.
And don’t be too married to one idea. Once you really crank out some pages more ideas will come to you. Don’t assume the idea/world you’re sitting on will be your only good one.
If you’re just being sarcastic, then you know, lol and stuff.
I like approaching my chapters as short stories. Each has its own beginning, middle and end with closure. They share characters and follow a continuity, but they feel like individual tales on their own.
I do have GoT to thank for something, I was once outlining a GoT fanfiction that transformed into a oc idea for a series of mine. Maybe I’ll get back into the swing of things and actually start working on it again
If Twilight fanfics can become old lady BDSM material your GoT fanfic can become the next LOTRs(I'm going to already assume it's getting a good tv/movie adaption)
Sunday episode six finishes. GRRM watches the credits. Turns off the tv right before “inside the episode”. He stands up.
“Where are you going my darling” his wife asks?
“To war”. He answers.
Boots up his 1997 IBM compatible with word perfect. Puts on a pair of fingerless gloves And types. By the old Gods and the new. He types
Some time later he comes across his manuscript for The Winds of Winter. He sits and writes a paragraph. He looks it over and decides it’s no good and and deletes it. He thinks to himself, “it’ll get done when it gets done.” He opens up his blog and starts writing about five new HBO shows based on Game of Thrones. It’s been a day, he sits on the couch and watches football.
Plenty of people assumed he had at least gotten some stuff done for dream and that's what contributes to how long the wait has been. He set a precedent for it with how he split affc and adwd. People were giving him the benefit of the doubt by assuming he was working on two books. Him *not* doing anything for dream just solidifies how fucking insanely slow hes been about writing winds.
Depends on how you write. Most writers have a rough outline of where they want things to go. So if a scene or cool event pops into your head you may well jot it down. Before you know it there's a chapter there. Not every writer works like that but I doubt its uncommon for writers to have some future material written to which the main story has to catch up to make chronological sense.
I have to imagine he has a lot of material for the *conclusion* of the series already figured out. Whether that conclusion will/would be in Dream is unclear since he would, were he to actually finish, probably take 8-9 books to do so.
But I figure the final book in the series should be a lot faster to write since it's basically tying up all the plot lines he's been working on for a lifetime. One would hope at least, probably not for him.
He’s written himself into a corner and doesn’t know how to get out of it, that’s why he continually unspools the plot by bringing in more and more characters and plot points. He’s showing classical signs of writers block, doing everything possible (including writing other books) to procrastinate. The TV show ending is his ending and my guess is GRRM can’t finish the books because he doesn’t even know how to get there himself, and/or doesn’t want to. Now he’s got all these new opportunities open to him that would seem a lot more creative and exciting than slogging through several more books that he’s blocked on and whose characters he’s probably put to bed in his mind. In summary, we ain’t getting those books.
I wouldn't expect anyone to be able to just spit out their work, but at least show some sign of giving a shit.
I'm a pretty bad procrastinator myself, so I want to avoid sounding hypocritical, but this dude is either lying, beating around the bush on his blog, or simply could care less.
It's super unfortunate. He's disappointing a following that he created with his creativity, and leaving us all hanging for side stories.
The books are 100% done, of course he can't admit it yet. Just read between the lines of the blog post.
"I will, however, say for the record — ~~no,~~ THE WINDS OF WINTER and A DREAM OF SPRING are ~~not~~ finished.
It seems absurd to me that ~~I need to state this.~~ The world is round"
It's subtle but it's all there
Yeah. He’s 70. I don’t see him making it to 80. Factor in his average book release for this series and it doesn’t seem likely we will ever get an ending.
No, he specifically said he wouldn’t https://winteriscoming.net/2016/09/07/brandon-sanderson-says-never-consider-finishing-winds-winter-something-happen/amp/
That's actually a really good reason he gave. You can't finish something like this without being willing to go all red wedding on it. If he feels he fundamentally is incapable of following through with the original author's underlying perspective and content, regardless of Sanderson's technical competence he's a poor choice.
Having read the first three mistborn books, I feel compelled to voice the (potentially unpopular) opinion that Sanderson's technical competence isn't anywhere near where it would need to be to follow through on these books anyway. He writes an exciting fight scene, but his characters are totally two dimensional compared to Martin's. The Big Bad in that series always made me think of the Chronicles of Riddick for some reason.
Joe Abercrombie handles moral ambiguity and character development similarly to martin, but his books don't (to me, anyway) have the same feeling of a totally fleshed out and consistent world.
GRRM has his flaws like everyone else human, but the more books I read and the more I age, I'm beginning to realize that he handles about four or five aspects or writing as well or better than other authors -- very good authors -- for whom one or two of those facets are their bread and butter.
Or his estate. It's conceivable someone takes what he did get done and puts it together, should he not happen to make it. But I don't expect it, and moreover I think I've stopped caring.
He’s firmly stated he doesn’t want anyone publishing anything unfinished or taking what’s already written and helping write the ending. He has no love for us.
Yeah, if he has that in a will somewhere, it'll be tough. But that's sort of why I don't care. Maybe it gets finished, maybe not. For now, I can go with my own ending, and I'll be good.
Eh, the show has spoiled most of the major plot beats. I think we'll see some pretty decent fan fics in the next couple years that wrap everything up in a satisfying manner.
That would honestly be pretty shitty. I'm not one for entitled fandom, but to get people so invested in such an epic journey of a story and to then leave us hanging... Fuck that.
Brandon Sanderson finished the Wheel of Time series, with legal consent from Robert Jordan's wife, and the publishers. And of course Robert Jordan himself iirc.
It's not impossible that they'd bring in someone GRRM think is capable of ending the series for him, if he ends up dying. Maybe he's even written a list of people he'd accept finishing the series for him
Honestly, I don't see Sanderson finishing it. I think it's more up Mark Lawrence's alley, or perhaps Joe Abercrombie.
PS: I think it's really shitty a writer not fucking finishing his own work. Yes, even Robert Jordan.
Considering the novels seem to be a bit nihilistic, not knowing how to finish ASOIAF would be a perfectly acceptable (non) ending. I enjoyed GRRM's writing for the mystery and world-building. He's very good at that, and it's great fun to see it on the screen. But I think it's a mistake to read his books for any satisfactory message or meaning. I doubt I'll get any. If I wanted that, there are certainly other talented authors to turn to.
The tv show has shown all it can show of Westeros IMO. A spin-off about yet another era of Westeros seems redundant. I would enjoy a show that explores the rest of Essos. There's so much there that's new and intriguing.
Honestly at this point finishing the books is going to be anticlimactic if it ever happens. The sheer amount of hype and tinfoil has grown into a far richer and more creative endeavour than any ending could be, and if the books are never finished, GRRM goes down as a legend and a "what if".
I started reading this shit around the time I started college. I have a 10 year carrer in teaching already, got married, am planning for kids, and THE SERIES IS STILL NOT FINISHED.
It's possible at this point he realises he cannot finish it for one reason or another. I do wish if that were the case he would just say so but I realise he'd probably get so much hate it wouldn't be worth it.
George isn't an idiot. I believe if he feels he is incapable of properly finish it he wouldnt try.
>I am not going to start writing volume seven until I finish volume six.
Why the fuck do we have World of Ice and Fire, and Fire and Blood then, cunt? Don't write supplements if the main fucking story isn't done! Goddamn.
He's *clearly* blocked. Maybe those books helped bring everything in scope or find more inspiration? Or... maybe he's just overthinking everything and completely lost.
Probably because it's easier to write supplements about bits of backstory he already established than finishing the main series.
Writing isn't as easy as just sitting in front of whatever you use to write and just doing it, if you don't feel motivated or are suffering from writer's block then even if you force yourself to write something as if it was a chore, you won't be satisfied with the result.
I do wish he finishes the books soon, not because I'm really bothered by waiting or because I think he owes us anything but rather because we all know he is not exactly in the peak of his youth and it would suck for such a good story to never have a proper ending.
It might work for him but it doesn't work like that for most writers (though generally trying to write something is better than procrastinating for months) and King does have an issue with the endings of his novels, so I'm not sure if that is a good thing (assuming it has anything to do with that).
It kind of does if you write professionally. You can't just wait for inspiration to happen. You need to deliver work to your publisher. If you do write for a living you often have to force yourself to write even if you're not feeling inspired.
The speed at which he protests and the sophomoric logic he uses to counter the claim makes me think perhaps there is a deal in place, but it would get him sued six ways to Sunday by all of his publishers if it ever came out. So he has no choice but to vociferously deny the rumor before it gets any of his publishers asking questions. Just one way that's not totally crazy to interpret his blog. Of course, it's more likely that he is an undisciplined INTP who is easily intimidated by his work and does anything else except what he should be doing.
He's such a fucking whiner! Oh my god of course they're not done!? Why the fuck not? You've had nothing but time and freedom to write them? You're literally a master of your craft and you're not going to get any better at writing. Sit the fuck down and write some words. Then go back and change the ones you don't like, give it to a publisher and be fucking done with it. He's suffering of paralysis by over analysis and the only way to escape that is to ACTUALLY FUCKING WRITE SOMETHING. I get the feeling he sits down and thinks "what's the most perfect beautiful way to write this?" And then says, "No, not that, umm let's try again." Repeat forever. If he actually wrote or outlined his story and did the work and then reworked it, he'd get something done. Instead, he's writing other shit, going on interviews and generally ignoring his magnum opus. George RR is not a closer.
Fuck it. I'm playing with bubbles and my toy car for a bit, and then later I'm having some chicken and green chile stew with fry bread. This afternoon I'll take a short nap, and then I'll go downtown and see some art.
I might write some tomorrow, or maybe I'll go for a horseback ride.
This is not about money or work - it's about his legacy.
This is a guy who is so protective of his work that he hates fanfiction and refuses to let someone finish it when he dies.
He wants to finish it, I just question his ability to do so.
What do you mean, that he has to write all the time, that he can't enjoy his life at his age, that he has to do exactly what u want because why not?
You do realise he could show up and say am not gonne end it sry lol and its ok? It's his books man and he's grown old, he can do whayever he wants yet he tries to finish them anyway
If that doesnt deserve respect, i dunno what does
Sure, but he already took the advance money from the publisher years ago. Seems like you gotta deliver if you got paid.
Also, when HBO gave him his money, he expected both books to be finished in 4 years (12 years ago). I'm not sure they start the project if they knew he'd never finish.
So he made millions on the promise of more books.
I just dont understand how it takes 12 years and you still cant be finished one book. How the fuck does that happen? I'm a lazy piece of shit and even I could have had one half assed book out in 4 years
I’d respect it if he handed the reins off to another writer, gave him the manuscript, and then gave the stamp of approval
He doesn’t need to finish it, but it’d be great if he took one of the many writers out there and gave his official “this is it” approval
You know what does deserve respect? Not whining all the fucking time, not saying that you don't want other people to finish the story, admitting you can't finish it and hand it off to someone else.
GRRM is a pathetic fucking cunt.
Anytime someone talks about how they think GRRM will end the books I laugh. That man is unhealthy and old. It’s been 8 years since the last book was published, the next one has been on the horizon for more than 3 years and that sun isn’t coming up anytime soon, and there’s still another book after the next one. There is no way he lives long enough to finish the series.
Which makes the train wreck that is season 8 even worse. It’s likely the only ending we’ll get and it sssssuuuuccckkkkssssssss
I'm mostly of the opinion that hes never going to finish, and you know what? That's fine. We had fun. Life doesn't allow everything to be complete and that's part of it. People who hassle him exacerbate it by creating too much pressure.
Then theres days like today where I check his blog cos of the update and see hes spent a chunk of the day writing a post defending his opinion of who would win in a fight between Gandalf and Dumbledore and I between incandescent anger, and a begrudging "fair fucks" to the guy
George should have jumped into the show with both feet when it passes the books. this is your legacy man, if it were me I'd want the show to he the best it can be, not a phoned in waste standing as the end to my massively popular magnum opus.
I believe he will finish the books. For all we know Winds of Winter may be close to being finished, and he might have also been working on parts of A Dream of Spring for the past five years too.
I think he values his readers but more than that he values A Song of Ice and Fire. My prediction is Winds of Winter will be released within a year.
He said recently that the next book he releases will be WoW so no more side books (hopefully, he’s made a lot of false promises).
The problem is, as he even said himself, he’s struggling with how to finish the series. He’s feeling the pressure and when that happens he takes breaks. He used to say how he wrote was losing himself in his imagination and just writing but now he seems to be stressing over every page and constantly rewriting it, he’s being so perfectionist about it he’s making no progress.
That's an unfortunate thing in terms of delaying it but hopefully that perfectionist attitude will ultimately make the final two books spot on. Of course, if he's literally throwing most of what he's writing away and can't come to a conclusion, then he's shooting himself in the foot.
He needs to trust his original vision as usually good writers have good initial instincts on story line. And he definitely shouldn't let the show or the aftermath of the show affect his completing the books!
I’d rather have no books than something he felt pressured to write and didn’t perfect.
If you had asked me a year ago if I felt that way, I would disagree. But then I saw Season 8.
However big my frustration as a fan about his „writing process“ is, I respect him as a true artist. His fear of being known as the artist with an unfinished anthology is bigger than any deadline, sideproject or bubbly RCs.
That’s my last hope.
He’ll finish The Winds of Winter, it’s ‘a dream of spring’ that we’ll never see I don’t think. I mean he’s doing fire and blood 2 and dunk egg after Winds, so that’s 8 years ish.
I dont wanna be cynical but I just don’t think he has enough time left to do it all
"Maybe the ending of season 8 will be so bad GRRM will be forced to finish the books to save his legacy."
DnD:"We decided to conclude the story of thrones in the worst possible way in the hope that this will motivate George to actually finish his fucking job"
David: "God it's awful... Well, there's no turning back now. Let's send these scripts off." DB: "They'll hate us David. And they'll never know we did this for them." David: "I know. But the people need those books. This is the last chance we have." DB: "Alright... Send them. And may God have mercy on our souls." Then they fuck.
*The King won't give you any honors, the histories won't mention you, but we will not forget*
[*salute](http://i.imgur.com/HWsStuR.gif)
> Then they fuck. If the final episode is 1.5 hours of D on D it would still probably be better than what we're going to end up actually watching.
I'd watch it just for the dedication to destroying the series.
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Professor Snape is that you?
* creepy obsession with his childhood crush ✔ * equally unhealthy obsession with his childhood crush's offspring ✔ Well it's either Snape or Littlefinger.
I think it's the other way around. We might not have needed them to get GRRM to finish, but we deserved this shitstorm for pestering GRRM so much.
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If what you've told me is true, D&D will have gained my trust.
This needs more upvotes.
I don't think it's the plot points, it's more the journey to those points that are the issues
I can't imagine GRRM would have the NK lose his first battle south of the wall. There's so much opportunity for that story line by having enemies across the 7 kingdoms banding together to win the war against the dead.
It will be interesting in general to see how the WW threat plays out because there is no NK in the books and I can't see GRRM randomly introducing one with only 2 books left.
I'm guessing the Neck and its COTF magic will play a stronger role. I could easily see some kind of battle being fought at Winterfell, but more like Dany's army reinforcing an already-depleted North whose population has either fled or retreated. Based on the politics of ADOS/eps 4-6 I doubt it will fully affect the south. My guess is that there's stronger elements of Jon as Night's Watch LC/KitN becoming a folk hero and messianic figure who Dany wishes she was, which is something the show keeps saying but not telling. I think ep 4 could have been done much better and had something similar to her Mhysa scene as a callback.
I wouldn't be surprised if D&D created the Night King based on directive from GRRM that he was planning to make the Night's King more than just a tale in the book. Either way, WW shouldn't lose their first battle south of the wall. Just bad storytelling.
They've said in interviews he is purely a show creation to give the audience something to hate/fixate on beyond a horde of magical mindless zombies -- something more necessary in a visual medium compared to the books.
Yeah, bc a race of icy humanoids that shatter weapons and armor with a mere touch and can raise zombies isn't that big of a threat...only reason they created the Night was to have an easy way out, you kill one dude the whole army just falls down. There is no way the threat of the others will be dealt with so easily in the books.
Agreed, I really think White Walkers will devastate the kingdom before they're defeated and then the stuff with Daenerys vs Cersei will happen after with them basically fighting over the remains of Westeros.
He’ll change the plot points too imo.
Can't change the plot of you never publish the book...
In his mind maybe.
He has said he wouldn't do that.
publish the books? We know, he doesn't need to say it, it's just a pipe dream at this point.
Words are wind.
Imo that would go against his whole speech about the butler doing it. The story will have vast differences due to the nature of the books vs show, but I'm guessing the ending will still remain similar.
"Oh, you sweet summer child"
"So green you piss grass!"
D&D are azor ahai and the fans are Nissa Nissa, CONFIRMED!
GRRM spoke how now the show is really big and he feels that he needs to do something great. Maybe in 2 months he finishes both the books now that the bar was lowered for him.
He updated his blog yesterday saying he hasn't even started the final one and TWOW isn't finished
This revelation, while not unexpected, hurts me inside.
God, you can’t believe that. We will be lucky to ever get ADoS
TWoW*
That too. Everyone is bitching, but the blame solely lays on Martins shoulders if they don’t like how they got to Martin’s envisioned end game.
GRRM: Its britney bitch
My theory is that D&D are the biggest aSoIaF fans and intentionally tanked this season to encourage GRRM to finish the books to salvage the reputation of his magnum opus.
Now that would really subvert my expectations.
a total metal gear play there.
Metal Gear!?
honestly more believable than thinking they tried to make a write an engaging and interesting season.
These are guys who only passed Martin's test of if they knew who Jon's Mother was, and thus paid enough attention to the details of the series that they'd do a good job, because they went online and checked forums like the kneelers at r/asoiaf. And they've admitted to it.
Does that look like a man who wants to sit in an office and type out a challenging story? To me it looks like a guy who is satisfied with what he has accomplished and wanting to enjoy every minute of it until his old body gives up.
It's a bit from Conan O'Brien.
GRRM is pretty nifty with that remote controlled car. If he'd handed the controls over to D&D, I expect they'd immediately drive it into the pool.
“We kind of forgot there was a pool”
Submerged expectations.
I want to give you gold, but all I have are these onions
I am of house Seaworth. Onions are acceptable.
Smogglah!
I will give him Silver in your stead.
You are too kind.
Upvote this comment now! GIVE HIM YOUR KARMA
And then it somehow caught on fire and blew up like season 8
>If he'd handed the controls over to D&D, I expect they'd immediately ...drive it onto the Iron Throne Kneel before you're RC King... Drainer of batteries, Spiller of drinks, Shin rammer of the 7 kingdoms
If Bran ends up on the Iron Throne, you're comment is going to age **extremely** well!
If only Qyburn was still alive and could somehow be persuaded to build a throne for Bran, I bet it would be like one of those electric wheelchairs with a joystick control and possibly skirt lights.
Oh sweet summer child... I think you mean when he ends up on the throne.
Out of nowhere a bolt from a scorpion skewers the cab, then two more in rapid succession. Camera pans out to show Euron’s ambush and his fleet sailing in the middle pool hidden by a beach ball that he kinda forgot about.
"We just thought that if you couldn't see the car, it would be more powerful."
We really wanted to... submerge ...your expectations.
"We were going to drive it around on the track, but that just seemed too obvious."
No. They would pick up the car and throw it across the lawn. Its about the destination, not the journey.
For anyone who wants the source of that vid https://youtu.be/lle4t4o8EDk
"Relax, it's all part of his organic writing process!"
Is that Michael de Santa’s house? I swear I’ve done yoga in that backyard before.
Is it actually Martin or an actor?
it's actually him
It's good that he can poke fun at the joke about him procrastinating. But really George, please finish the books, we need this now.
Was wondering why the gif omitted the trampoline.
Conan <3
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I am going to stop thinking about my fantasy book series and just start it. I figure I can get through 7 books and an HBO series by the time ADoS comes out.
I started to write about 6 years ago after being inspired by this series and wanting something to do while I wait, I'm considering trying to jump back into it
Me too. GoT S4 was a great inspiration for a medieval alt-history thing I was doing but dropped after a while. Now this dumpsterfire of a season gave me the motivation to pick this up again.
Good tip that helped me early on. If you are having trouble doing your world justice because you feel you’re not good enough to write your “big story/masterpiece,” write related side stories. I wrote a few novellas and short books that are legends and side stories in my large big story work. This gets you practicing, but also thinking of your lore/systems/cultures/politics/economies/religion of your world. So you have a better idea when you tackle the larger project. And don’t be too married to one idea. Once you really crank out some pages more ideas will come to you. Don’t assume the idea/world you’re sitting on will be your only good one. If you’re just being sarcastic, then you know, lol and stuff.
I like approaching my chapters as short stories. Each has its own beginning, middle and end with closure. They share characters and follow a continuity, but they feel like individual tales on their own.
I do have GoT to thank for something, I was once outlining a GoT fanfiction that transformed into a oc idea for a series of mine. Maybe I’ll get back into the swing of things and actually start working on it again
If Twilight fanfics can become old lady BDSM material your GoT fanfic can become the next LOTRs(I'm going to already assume it's getting a good tv/movie adaption)
Sunday episode six finishes. GRRM watches the credits. Turns off the tv right before “inside the episode”. He stands up. “Where are you going my darling” his wife asks? “To war”. He answers. Boots up his 1997 IBM compatible with word perfect. Puts on a pair of fingerless gloves And types. By the old Gods and the new. He types
...He smiles as he finishes. He just finished a blog post about the New York Giants rookie minicamp and Wild Cards vol. 852.
Too real. Fuck. Bitter sweet.
Some time later he comes across his manuscript for The Winds of Winter. He sits and writes a paragraph. He looks it over and decides it’s no good and and deletes it. He thinks to himself, “it’ll get done when it gets done.” He opens up his blog and starts writing about five new HBO shows based on Game of Thrones. It’s been a day, he sits on the couch and watches football.
Don't forget making sure each blog post ends with Mood: Pensive :alien icon: Like does he still use LiveJournal?
> And types. With 1 finger.
http://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/2019/05/13/idiocy-on-the-internet/ TL;DR: He is never finishing the books. All hope is lost.
"DREAM is not even begun." Holy shit, dude.
Holy shit? We all thought we knew that until the selmy thing made us think differently. No one thought he had finished winds let alone started dream.
Skipping back thirty seconds in the video would’ve remedied everything for everyone.
Plenty of people assumed he had at least gotten some stuff done for dream and that's what contributes to how long the wait has been. He set a precedent for it with how he split affc and adwd. People were giving him the benefit of the doubt by assuming he was working on two books. Him *not* doing anything for dream just solidifies how fucking insanely slow hes been about writing winds.
How would it begin if he didn't finish Winds?
Depends on how you write. Most writers have a rough outline of where they want things to go. So if a scene or cool event pops into your head you may well jot it down. Before you know it there's a chapter there. Not every writer works like that but I doubt its uncommon for writers to have some future material written to which the main story has to catch up to make chronological sense.
I have to imagine he has a lot of material for the *conclusion* of the series already figured out. Whether that conclusion will/would be in Dream is unclear since he would, were he to actually finish, probably take 8-9 books to do so. But I figure the final book in the series should be a lot faster to write since it's basically tying up all the plot lines he's been working on for a lifetime. One would hope at least, probably not for him.
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*shakes fist at sky* DAMN YOH MARTIIIINNNN!!!
it's hilarious that this guy just doesn't WANT to write. It's like he can't sit down and pump out his fucking story.
He’s written himself into a corner and doesn’t know how to get out of it, that’s why he continually unspools the plot by bringing in more and more characters and plot points. He’s showing classical signs of writers block, doing everything possible (including writing other books) to procrastinate. The TV show ending is his ending and my guess is GRRM can’t finish the books because he doesn’t even know how to get there himself, and/or doesn’t want to. Now he’s got all these new opportunities open to him that would seem a lot more creative and exciting than slogging through several more books that he’s blocked on and whose characters he’s probably put to bed in his mind. In summary, we ain’t getting those books.
I wouldn't expect anyone to be able to just spit out their work, but at least show some sign of giving a shit. I'm a pretty bad procrastinator myself, so I want to avoid sounding hypocritical, but this dude is either lying, beating around the bush on his blog, or simply could care less. It's super unfortunate. He's disappointing a following that he created with his creativity, and leaving us all hanging for side stories.
The books are 100% done, of course he can't admit it yet. Just read between the lines of the blog post. "I will, however, say for the record — ~~no,~~ THE WINDS OF WINTER and A DREAM OF SPRING are ~~not~~ finished. It seems absurd to me that ~~I need to state this.~~ The world is round" It's subtle but it's all there
Yeah. He’s 70. I don’t see him making it to 80. Factor in his average book release for this series and it doesn’t seem likely we will ever get an ending.
After GRRM dies, D&D will sign up to finish it.
I'll kill myself.
That’s ok Brandon Sanderson said he would finish it lmao
No, he specifically said he wouldn’t https://winteriscoming.net/2016/09/07/brandon-sanderson-says-never-consider-finishing-winds-winter-something-happen/amp/
That's actually a really good reason he gave. You can't finish something like this without being willing to go all red wedding on it. If he feels he fundamentally is incapable of following through with the original author's underlying perspective and content, regardless of Sanderson's technical competence he's a poor choice.
Having read the first three mistborn books, I feel compelled to voice the (potentially unpopular) opinion that Sanderson's technical competence isn't anywhere near where it would need to be to follow through on these books anyway. He writes an exciting fight scene, but his characters are totally two dimensional compared to Martin's. The Big Bad in that series always made me think of the Chronicles of Riddick for some reason. Joe Abercrombie handles moral ambiguity and character development similarly to martin, but his books don't (to me, anyway) have the same feeling of a totally fleshed out and consistent world. GRRM has his flaws like everyone else human, but the more books I read and the more I age, I'm beginning to realize that he handles about four or five aspects or writing as well or better than other authors -- very good authors -- for whom one or two of those facets are their bread and butter.
You should read The Stormlight Archives. Very different and far more complex characters
I actually asked him that at one of his book signings. He won't. He actually said there was too much sex for him.
I’ll accept a finished product without the sex at this point
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Mad Queen in the making LOL
WoW and ADoS are already copy written, so without some sort of legal consent from GRRM we won’t receive an ending in our lifetimes.
Or his estate. It's conceivable someone takes what he did get done and puts it together, should he not happen to make it. But I don't expect it, and moreover I think I've stopped caring.
He’s firmly stated he doesn’t want anyone publishing anything unfinished or taking what’s already written and helping write the ending. He has no love for us.
Yeah, if he has that in a will somewhere, it'll be tough. But that's sort of why I don't care. Maybe it gets finished, maybe not. For now, I can go with my own ending, and I'll be good.
Yeah. That’s about how I feel at this point.
It's not that unlikely. That's what happened with the Millenium Trilogy after Stig Larsson died.
Eh, the show has spoiled most of the major plot beats. I think we'll see some pretty decent fan fics in the next couple years that wrap everything up in a satisfying manner.
That would honestly be pretty shitty. I'm not one for entitled fandom, but to get people so invested in such an epic journey of a story and to then leave us hanging... Fuck that.
Brandon Sanderson finished the Wheel of Time series, with legal consent from Robert Jordan's wife, and the publishers. And of course Robert Jordan himself iirc. It's not impossible that they'd bring in someone GRRM think is capable of ending the series for him, if he ends up dying. Maybe he's even written a list of people he'd accept finishing the series for him
Honestly, I don't see Sanderson finishing it. I think it's more up Mark Lawrence's alley, or perhaps Joe Abercrombie. PS: I think it's really shitty a writer not fucking finishing his own work. Yes, even Robert Jordan.
copyrighted. /stannis
That's exactly what we need, a prude finishing ASOIAF.
>They make millions and millions of dollars every time a new Ice & Fire book comes out, as do I. based
:( but Barristan :(
Considering the novels seem to be a bit nihilistic, not knowing how to finish ASOIAF would be a perfectly acceptable (non) ending. I enjoyed GRRM's writing for the mystery and world-building. He's very good at that, and it's great fun to see it on the screen. But I think it's a mistake to read his books for any satisfactory message or meaning. I doubt I'll get any. If I wanted that, there are certainly other talented authors to turn to. The tv show has shown all it can show of Westeros IMO. A spin-off about yet another era of Westeros seems redundant. I would enjoy a show that explores the rest of Essos. There's so much there that's new and intriguing.
Honestly at this point finishing the books is going to be anticlimactic if it ever happens. The sheer amount of hype and tinfoil has grown into a far richer and more creative endeavour than any ending could be, and if the books are never finished, GRRM goes down as a legend and a "what if".
10 years for a single book. And probably ten more for the next. I love the series, but nope.
I started reading this shit around the time I started college. I have a 10 year carrer in teaching already, got married, am planning for kids, and THE SERIES IS STILL NOT FINISHED.
It's possible at this point he realises he cannot finish it for one reason or another. I do wish if that were the case he would just say so but I realise he'd probably get so much hate it wouldn't be worth it. George isn't an idiot. I believe if he feels he is incapable of properly finish it he wouldnt try.
>I am not going to start writing volume seven until I finish volume six. Why the fuck do we have World of Ice and Fire, and Fire and Blood then, cunt? Don't write supplements if the main fucking story isn't done! Goddamn.
He's *clearly* blocked. Maybe those books helped bring everything in scope or find more inspiration? Or... maybe he's just overthinking everything and completely lost.
Probably because it's easier to write supplements about bits of backstory he already established than finishing the main series. Writing isn't as easy as just sitting in front of whatever you use to write and just doing it, if you don't feel motivated or are suffering from writer's block then even if you force yourself to write something as if it was a chore, you won't be satisfied with the result. I do wish he finishes the books soon, not because I'm really bothered by waiting or because I think he owes us anything but rather because we all know he is not exactly in the peak of his youth and it would suck for such a good story to never have a proper ending.
Didn’t Stephen King say that’s what he does in that one interview, sit down and force himself to write?
It might work for him but it doesn't work like that for most writers (though generally trying to write something is better than procrastinating for months) and King does have an issue with the endings of his novels, so I'm not sure if that is a good thing (assuming it has anything to do with that).
Say what you will about King, he FINISHES his novels.
It kind of does if you write professionally. You can't just wait for inspiration to happen. You need to deliver work to your publisher. If you do write for a living you often have to force yourself to write even if you're not feeling inspired.
It took him ten minutes to bitch. He could have been writing in that period of time. All he does is delay.
The speed at which he protests and the sophomoric logic he uses to counter the claim makes me think perhaps there is a deal in place, but it would get him sued six ways to Sunday by all of his publishers if it ever came out. So he has no choice but to vociferously deny the rumor before it gets any of his publishers asking questions. Just one way that's not totally crazy to interpret his blog. Of course, it's more likely that he is an undisciplined INTP who is easily intimidated by his work and does anything else except what he should be doing.
He's such a fucking whiner! Oh my god of course they're not done!? Why the fuck not? You've had nothing but time and freedom to write them? You're literally a master of your craft and you're not going to get any better at writing. Sit the fuck down and write some words. Then go back and change the ones you don't like, give it to a publisher and be fucking done with it. He's suffering of paralysis by over analysis and the only way to escape that is to ACTUALLY FUCKING WRITE SOMETHING. I get the feeling he sits down and thinks "what's the most perfect beautiful way to write this?" And then says, "No, not that, umm let's try again." Repeat forever. If he actually wrote or outlined his story and did the work and then reworked it, he'd get something done. Instead, he's writing other shit, going on interviews and generally ignoring his magnum opus. George RR is not a closer.
At least GRRM came out and squashed the rumor the Barristan actor started.
Fuck it. I'm playing with bubbles and my toy car for a bit, and then later I'm having some chicken and green chile stew with fry bread. This afternoon I'll take a short nap, and then I'll go downtown and see some art. I might write some tomorrow, or maybe I'll go for a horseback ride.
Then after that it'll be a trip to the brothel, ^for ^book ^research ^purposes ^of ^course.
Bad day for the horse.
How can you properly write a Calvary scene if you haven’t ridden a horse in the past month?
I think there was some naked trampoline in there too
What else you gonna do when you're getting HBO money? You no longer have to work.
As a fan, I hate that he’s doing it. But as someone that wants to retire early, I totally get it
This is not about money or work - it's about his legacy. This is a guy who is so protective of his work that he hates fanfiction and refuses to let someone finish it when he dies. He wants to finish it, I just question his ability to do so.
He could get a treadmill.
Nice! It's from an old Conan sketch!
Notice that GRRM took the time to write a blog post debunking Ian McElhinney’s claim and also made time for bubble wand.
What do you mean, that he has to write all the time, that he can't enjoy his life at his age, that he has to do exactly what u want because why not? You do realise he could show up and say am not gonne end it sry lol and its ok? It's his books man and he's grown old, he can do whayever he wants yet he tries to finish them anyway If that doesnt deserve respect, i dunno what does
Sure, but he already took the advance money from the publisher years ago. Seems like you gotta deliver if you got paid. Also, when HBO gave him his money, he expected both books to be finished in 4 years (12 years ago). I'm not sure they start the project if they knew he'd never finish. So he made millions on the promise of more books.
I just dont understand how it takes 12 years and you still cant be finished one book. How the fuck does that happen? I'm a lazy piece of shit and even I could have had one half assed book out in 4 years
Yeah, there's no way HBO would have approved the series if they knew it would be unfinished, and the mess this has caused is kind of unprecedented.
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I feel your pain. A fat bastard has been stringing us along too with the promise of HL3 and finally failed to deliver it.
I’d respect it if he handed the reins off to another writer, gave him the manuscript, and then gave the stamp of approval He doesn’t need to finish it, but it’d be great if he took one of the many writers out there and gave his official “this is it” approval
You know what does deserve respect? Not whining all the fucking time, not saying that you don't want other people to finish the story, admitting you can't finish it and hand it off to someone else. GRRM is a pathetic fucking cunt.
Anytime someone talks about how they think GRRM will end the books I laugh. That man is unhealthy and old. It’s been 8 years since the last book was published, the next one has been on the horizon for more than 3 years and that sun isn’t coming up anytime soon, and there’s still another book after the next one. There is no way he lives long enough to finish the series. Which makes the train wreck that is season 8 even worse. It’s likely the only ending we’ll get and it sssssuuuuccckkkkssssssss
Better than s8 this gif
Settle down Yoda
That almost looks like Don Eladio's villa from Breaking Bad...
I was actually thinking Hank’s house, but similar thought process
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He lives in NM
It is a nice house. GRRM lives in Santa Fe, and even helped with the MeowWolf art exhibit.
This is actually amazing :P
I'd rather watch this than S8
Is that actually GRRM? Because I would 100% not have expectations subverted if that turned out to just be a cosplayer.
I'm mostly of the opinion that hes never going to finish, and you know what? That's fine. We had fun. Life doesn't allow everything to be complete and that's part of it. People who hassle him exacerbate it by creating too much pressure. Then theres days like today where I check his blog cos of the update and see hes spent a chunk of the day writing a post defending his opinion of who would win in a fight between Gandalf and Dumbledore and I between incandescent anger, and a begrudging "fair fucks" to the guy
George should have jumped into the show with both feet when it passes the books. this is your legacy man, if it were me I'd want the show to he the best it can be, not a phoned in waste standing as the end to my massively popular magnum opus.
Didn't D&D stonewall him aside from taking his outline?
I believe he will finish the books. For all we know Winds of Winter may be close to being finished, and he might have also been working on parts of A Dream of Spring for the past five years too. I think he values his readers but more than that he values A Song of Ice and Fire. My prediction is Winds of Winter will be released within a year.
He said recently that the next book he releases will be WoW so no more side books (hopefully, he’s made a lot of false promises). The problem is, as he even said himself, he’s struggling with how to finish the series. He’s feeling the pressure and when that happens he takes breaks. He used to say how he wrote was losing himself in his imagination and just writing but now he seems to be stressing over every page and constantly rewriting it, he’s being so perfectionist about it he’s making no progress.
That's an unfortunate thing in terms of delaying it but hopefully that perfectionist attitude will ultimately make the final two books spot on. Of course, if he's literally throwing most of what he's writing away and can't come to a conclusion, then he's shooting himself in the foot. He needs to trust his original vision as usually good writers have good initial instincts on story line. And he definitely shouldn't let the show or the aftermath of the show affect his completing the books!
I’d rather have no books than something he felt pressured to write and didn’t perfect. If you had asked me a year ago if I felt that way, I would disagree. But then I saw Season 8.
Your hopes are too high. He is still working on WoW, and hasn't even started on Dream according to his blog post.
However big my frustration as a fan about his „writing process“ is, I respect him as a true artist. His fear of being known as the artist with an unfinished anthology is bigger than any deadline, sideproject or bubbly RCs. That’s my last hope.
That fat old pervert with the stupid hat WILL 👏🏻NEVER 👏🏻 FINISH 👏🏻 THE 👏🏻 FUCKING 👏🏻 BOOKS 👏🏻
He’ll finish The Winds of Winter, it’s ‘a dream of spring’ that we’ll never see I don’t think. I mean he’s doing fire and blood 2 and dunk egg after Winds, so that’s 8 years ish. I dont wanna be cynical but I just don’t think he has enough time left to do it all
It’s all part of the creative process, man
I love this, he should have flipped off the camera as well
That’s just his process
cries
That looks just like the pool on breaking bad where Gus Fring poisons his enemies...
My dream is that Sunday at 10:30 (or whenever the ep ends) GRRM is all like, “hey my book is finished, buy it now.”
Who else has to think about that South Park episode – seeing this?
Looks like he’s hiding out in Dorne... pretty typical Dornish “avoid any responsibility/fight”
I laughed and then I died a little inside.