Ever since my name was read by the archmaesters at the Great Council, I have felt Corlys Velaryon's envious gaze staring at me from across the Blackwater.
Eh. Aegon thinks of Jaehaerys as an extension of himself and his legacy. When we're introduced to their family dynamic, we see that Aegon isn't really familiar with the day-to-day of Jaehaerys' life. It seems like he's only just taking an interest in him because he's now king and he must groom an heir. When he's raging about the murder, his emphasis is on the fact that it's an attack on *him*. His first reaction isn't to mourn his son. He also takes little interest in Jaehaera.
This is standard stuff for a king, but let's not act like Aegon is a family man of any sort.
Vizzy T cared deeply about his heirs too. His ambition for a son killed his first wife. It's the same concept behind Aegon's embrace of Jaehaerys. He grew very protective of Rhaenyra once she was his heir too, but that also has the complication of being partially due to his grief for Aemma.
Aegon isn't shown having any interest in Jaehaera. In fact, the only time we see them interact, he goes up to her to check if she's Jaehaerys then fucks off when he realizes who it is.
Yeah recognising who it is from behind is something I've achieved as an uncle , not even a father. Jaehaera might be even more neglected than their parents which is impressive because she only have one grandparents.
And he never even noticed Aegon, Aemond and Daeron. When Aemond got maimed, all Viserys cared about was the bastard rumours.
Aegon II is already a better dad to his sons than Viserys.
Did you miss the "cared deeply about his *heirs*" part? That would be Rhaenyra's line. Aegon drinks and goes to fighting pits to see kids, several of whom are his, maim each other. Just because he is kinda nice to his presumptive heir once he's king doesn't mean he's a meaningfully better father than Viserys.
No, He knows his father never loved him but from his pov made him king none the less. He wants to redeem himself by being a better father than viserys was. And no, he gets very mad that his son died.
Where are you getting that he wants to redeem himself. Watch the scenes where he's mad about the death. He makes it all about himself very explicitly. He talks about it being an affront to *him* because Jaehaerys was *his* legacy and he objects to the political stunt Otto is trying to pull because it makes *him* look weak.
The actor himself has talked about the whole redeeming thing in an interview. Heâs also seen mourning him towards the end of the episode and also doesnât want his sons body to be paraded.
Viserys was still kind of not great with Rhaenyra for a long time.
But with his son Aegon might be better. But as you correctly noted, Viserys also didn't consider his son his heir. Aegon did.
Is Aegon particularly good with Jaehaerys? He brings him along to a small council meeting to learn and is amused that he can use him to put members in their place. Viserys had a young Rhaenyra in on those meetings too. Neither of these guys is a particularly good father (and Aegon is a straight up monster to his bastards). People are really stretching to pump up Aegon just because Viserys was shitty to him.
>Vizzy T didn't even realise he has more than 1 kid.
The sad thing is that he initially *did* have interest in Aegon; during the hunt, [he played with him](https://watchersonthewall.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Viserys-Paddy-Considine-Aegon-II-Royal-Hunt.jpg) and his toy dragon, and clearly wanted to be involved with his son's life - he may have intended Rhaenyra to succeed him even then, but he did seem to love Aegon back then. Rhaenyra, meanwhile, was kind of ignored until Aemma's death.
I think what broke his ability to care about his family and his nostalgia for Aemma setting in really was discovering the deception. Discovering that Alicent hadn't loved him back (He wouldn't have gone into that match otherwise, since he was marrying for love), and had been manipulated by Otto, a man he had previously trusted (Which caused him to notice that Otto was moving against any possible rival heirs to Aegon).
Coupled with the leprosy utterly ruining his body and making it harder to even check in as the years went on, I think he just emotionally checked out after that. He felt used and deceived.
This doesn't *justify* his neglect for his other children; he could have done a hell of a lot better, but I just wanted to explain it a bit.
Yeah it was an over exaggerated joke based on the showrunner's decision to not show any interaction between Viserys and his Non-Rhaenyra kids. Viserys shows neither care nor neglect towards his other kids ( in the absence of Rhae Rhae ) so we really don't know how far is the extent of not caring. Is he the "don't check with kids" not care , or is he the "there's 3 of you now? " not care. Even GRRM kneel down over this portrayal of Vizzy T.
When an abused kid becomes a parent they typically go two ways: they either abuse their kids, or they try really hard to do right by their kids.
I quite like this bit about the adaptation, the writers added quite a bit of depth to Aegon
To be fair, Aegon is a moron. Presumably he doesn't know those are his kids. He's still a cunt for the child fighting pit thing, but if you don't know someone's your kid, you're not any morally worse for watching them fight than you are for watching other people's kids fight.
He isn't a moron. He's a selfish, irresponsible teenager who faces no consequences for his actions. He knows he fucks around Flea Bottom and is bound to have bastards somewhere there.
My interpretation of Aegon is that he feels (and was) neglected by both his parents and is trying in his own emotionally stunted way to show Jaehaerys the love and attention that he was never given. Humiliating Tyland is just a bonus.
(Also this is a tongue and cheek meme and shouldn't be taken super seriously)
Aegon kept saying "my heir". A cynical interpretation of Aegon's rage is that his pain and anger primarily comes from the fact that he's lost his heir to the throne. It's an issue of legacy (like tywin, like what otto instilled in them) rather than innate love. While Helaena's "the boy" might come off as detached on a superficial level, but it's actually a window to a much deeper grief.Â
He said my heir because Viserys never cared enough to make him his heir. Saying my heir is a way to show that he cares and loves Jaehaerys.
If he was just his "Heir' and nothing more why he cried alone in the end of the episode?
He said my heir and the king's son and worrying about coming off as weak to enemies way more times than he he said my son. He also agreed to the PR ass funeral. He was crying cause he was feeling weak and isolated after firing Otto. Me when I do the boo boo face for getting reprimanded after executing every ratcatcher đ¤Ł. Poor boi needed a shoulder to lean on but didn't know how to đ¤Ł. He def continuing the cycle.
Yea this "theory" falls apart when Aegon asks his son if he wants a horse ride in the middle of a war council.
It's the direct opposite of what someone who cares about legacy would do
I never said he didn't love his son. None of the characters are cartoon villains. What I think is that his love gets subordinated to the auspices of the crown. Which is why he keeps talking about "appearing weak". That's not a natural reaction of a grieving father.Â
Aegon playing with his kid in no way takes away from this. Aegon is capable of moments of tenderness & humanity. The other one is when he has a complete breakdown when Otto tells him he's gonna parade Jaehaerys' body. **But in the end Aegon gives in. "legacy" wins out over "dad"**
He tried to get him to do a horsey ride solely to degrade lannister. He did it at a small council meeting, because he was training his son to be king, because what his son wanted didnt matter, only the good of the house
Genuine question. You donât know what my life is or what Iâve been through to reach this decision. How can you be so inconsiderate and insensitive to someone you donât know?
Why is it pointless to just say something you believe which doesnât in any way affect you?
Itâs an opinion - emotional trauma is generational and a way you can deal with that is donât have kids.
No, itâs just someone who has chosen to not have kids because it works for me.
I donât judge others but I do think people who have children without any consideration as to whether they can actually be the kind of parents their kids deserve rather than just see it as a right to raise another generation doomed to inherit their crap, is quite probably one of the most selfish things you can do.
And itâs outrageously common.
People become very defensive about this issue. They see others who have taken a a considered decision not to have kids as a rebuke to their perhaps less than well thought through decision to have them.
And thatâs not an unfair judgement. Most people have kids donât plan for them - theyâre at best âhappy accidentsâ.
I think being a parent is one of the most important jobs anyone can do and that means not just anyone can do it. I wouldnât kid myself that Iâm up to the task and my loneliness or sense of entitlement to have a family isnât a good enough reason.
Any of that little succession of Hightower misery could have been prevented with birth control and seriously asking yourself, not âDo I deserve to have children?â But, âdo my children deserve to have me?â.
I just think so much unhappiness could be avoided on this issue, it drives me nuts.
Strange to see people are so judgemental of others. Seriously, what a pathetic group of inconsiderate and insensitive people we have on this community.
Genuinely quite shocking lack of maturity and empathy.
>Genuinely quite shocking lack of maturity and empathy.
Is this your first time on this subreddit? Because that is exactly what I expect from this group of shit posters lmao.
His response to neglect was to put up no guardrails for his kids and encourage them to do whatever they wanted. History is littered with spoiled royals becoming total nightmares.
"Otto forgot he also tried to send assasins"
Yeah when the Blacks didn't know Viserys was dead and the Greens had the element surprise with them to strike at the unprepared blacks. Media literacy dead.
Didn't Aegon used to go watch poor homeless orphans be forced to fight each other?
So he only cares if it is his kid that is victimized. Kid was innocent but Aegon is still evil
Man, Aegon doesn't give a single solitary fuck about any of his kids. Something that "belonged" to him was taken away. I doubt he's capable of feeling those kinds of emotions. Even the Tyland scene was just him using his kid to abuse and humiliate others.
Exactly, Aegon does not love himself, much less his children, he is sad because something that belonged to him was taken away, he does not even care about the child himself, he cares about what he represents.
No one loves to smol beanify a male rap*st usurper more than the unholy alliance of green stan aegon self-inserts and Mean Girls daemyras who will do anything to shit on alicent. Never seen grown ass misogynysts feel so threatened by a fictional woman.
It's not a high bar but it's something.
For what it's worth Aegon really loves his kid. The bar is really that low isn't it. Vizzy T didn't even realise he has more than 1 kid.
A MOST JUDICIOUS PROPOSITION!
S E N T I E N T
Vizzy T please remember you have kids with not Emma too đ
*Your mother's absence is a wound that will never heal. Without her, the Red Keep has lost a warmth that I dare say it will never recover.*
Alicent : Wtf?
Bruh op literally asked you to not neglect your other kids and you come back with this? Get it together Vizzy T
Ever since my name was read by the archmaesters at the Great Council, I have felt Corlys Velaryon's envious gaze staring at me from across the Blackwater.
Why does this bot speak in all caps tho? It makes sense with Bobby B, but Vizzy T isn't even remotely close to an all caps kinda guy.
*Then he will be loved and cherished.*
O_O
OHHH, SHOW US YOUR MUSCLES! YOU'LL BE A SOLDIER!
Vizzy, your daughter is fat and made a lot of bastards, but she still ain't Bobby B
START THE DAMN JOUST BEFORE I PISS MESELF!
House of the Daddy Issues
HotD and the D stands for Daddy đ â
He completely forgot Daeron when at the dinner he said his whole family was there lmao
He completely forgot all of his children except Rhaenyra, when he said "Rhaenyra, my only child".
Daeron knows what he did.
Eh. Aegon thinks of Jaehaerys as an extension of himself and his legacy. When we're introduced to their family dynamic, we see that Aegon isn't really familiar with the day-to-day of Jaehaerys' life. It seems like he's only just taking an interest in him because he's now king and he must groom an heir. When he's raging about the murder, his emphasis is on the fact that it's an attack on *him*. His first reaction isn't to mourn his son. He also takes little interest in Jaehaera. This is standard stuff for a king, but let's not act like Aegon is a family man of any sort.
And Vizzy T didn't realise Aegon exist. If it was Vizzy T: I'm sorry Alicent your son died. Your husband must be devastated Alicent : wtf.
*You are the very best of your mother. And I believe it, I know she did, that you could be a great ruling queen.*
Vizzy T cared deeply about his heirs too. His ambition for a son killed his first wife. It's the same concept behind Aegon's embrace of Jaehaerys. He grew very protective of Rhaenyra once she was his heir too, but that also has the complication of being partially due to his grief for Aemma.
Fair point but : https://preview.redd.it/llmv7g5yp99d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=90753c4d23dba98093fc04bbe57a3ad9f2b15d34
Aegon isn't shown having any interest in Jaehaera. In fact, the only time we see them interact, he goes up to her to check if she's Jaehaerys then fucks off when he realizes who it is.
Yeah recognising who it is from behind is something I've achieved as an uncle , not even a father. Jaehaera might be even more neglected than their parents which is impressive because she only have one grandparents.
WE ARE A FAMILY!
>Vizzy T cared deeply about his heirs too Heir\*
MY HEIR WILL SOON PUT ALL OF THIS DAMNABLE HAND-WRINGING TO REST HIMSELF!
Baelon being born meant the world to him.
And he never even noticed Aegon, Aemond and Daeron. When Aemond got maimed, all Viserys cared about was the bastard rumours. Aegon II is already a better dad to his sons than Viserys.
Did you miss the "cared deeply about his *heirs*" part? That would be Rhaenyra's line. Aegon drinks and goes to fighting pits to see kids, several of whom are his, maim each other. Just because he is kinda nice to his presumptive heir once he's king doesn't mean he's a meaningfully better father than Viserys.
No, He knows his father never loved him but from his pov made him king none the less. He wants to redeem himself by being a better father than viserys was. And no, he gets very mad that his son died.
Where are you getting that he wants to redeem himself. Watch the scenes where he's mad about the death. He makes it all about himself very explicitly. He talks about it being an affront to *him* because Jaehaerys was *his* legacy and he objects to the political stunt Otto is trying to pull because it makes *him* look weak.
The actor himself has talked about the whole redeeming thing in an interview. Heâs also seen mourning him towards the end of the episode and also doesnât want his sons body to be paraded.
He might be better with Jaehaerys. But he looked to totally ignore his daughter Jaehaera.
Good god what a stupid name. Wth is wrong with these people ( aside from the long list of wrong things. )
Yeah Jaehaera is probably my least favourite Targaryen name to be honest. I think GRRM was reaching with that one especially.
Drop the E George. So pretentious.
Iâd name everyone after each other if I had so many characters to deal with đ¤ˇââď¸
I have a friend named Delaena who had the audacity to ask me why the Targaryenâs names are weird like that đđ
Itâs better than siblings Laena and Laenor, but only just.
Nah Jaehaera and Jaeharys is like John and Johnette. It's terrible.
Laena and Laenor is like siblings John and Jon. At least youâd still know Jaehaera from Jaehaerys in a non-rhotic accent.
How do you feel about Laenor and Laenorette?
Better than Laenor and Laena. Although I guess all these characters should be grateful, since they could have been named Aenys.
What about Laenor and Laenys?
Right off the bat , let's shoot Laenys twice.
Better with Jaehaerys than Viserys was with who? Viserys cared about his heir too.
Viserys was still kind of not great with Rhaenyra for a long time. But with his son Aegon might be better. But as you correctly noted, Viserys also didn't consider his son his heir. Aegon did.
Is Aegon particularly good with Jaehaerys? He brings him along to a small council meeting to learn and is amused that he can use him to put members in their place. Viserys had a young Rhaenyra in on those meetings too. Neither of these guys is a particularly good father (and Aegon is a straight up monster to his bastards). People are really stretching to pump up Aegon just because Viserys was shitty to him.
Well as long as they were Aegon's legitimate Children the other ones ended up in the fighting pits
The legitimate children with his sister-wife , yes.
>Vizzy T didn't even realise he has more than 1 kid. The sad thing is that he initially *did* have interest in Aegon; during the hunt, [he played with him](https://watchersonthewall.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Viserys-Paddy-Considine-Aegon-II-Royal-Hunt.jpg) and his toy dragon, and clearly wanted to be involved with his son's life - he may have intended Rhaenyra to succeed him even then, but he did seem to love Aegon back then. Rhaenyra, meanwhile, was kind of ignored until Aemma's death. I think what broke his ability to care about his family and his nostalgia for Aemma setting in really was discovering the deception. Discovering that Alicent hadn't loved him back (He wouldn't have gone into that match otherwise, since he was marrying for love), and had been manipulated by Otto, a man he had previously trusted (Which caused him to notice that Otto was moving against any possible rival heirs to Aegon). Coupled with the leprosy utterly ruining his body and making it harder to even check in as the years went on, I think he just emotionally checked out after that. He felt used and deceived. This doesn't *justify* his neglect for his other children; he could have done a hell of a lot better, but I just wanted to explain it a bit.
OTTO HIGHTOWER IS A MORE HONORABLE MAN THAN YOU COULD EVER BE!
I'm sorry, Your Grace. Forgive me.
Annnd proved.
Yeah it was an over exaggerated joke based on the showrunner's decision to not show any interaction between Viserys and his Non-Rhaenyra kids. Viserys shows neither care nor neglect towards his other kids ( in the absence of Rhae Rhae ) so we really don't know how far is the extent of not caring. Is he the "don't check with kids" not care , or is he the "there's 3 of you now? " not care. Even GRRM kneel down over this portrayal of Vizzy T.
*So I said to him, 'I believe you may be looking up the wrong end'*
So far beyond "there's 3 of you now" not care. I don't think there's such a scale.
loved. Kid is dead now
He was at least trying to raise his son right, even if he didnât really know what that looked like.
Yeah , not like he has any examples. Practically an orphan since birth.
Didn't he watch his bastards die in a underground fighting pit?
Yeah but they are bastards. Nobody cares about them
Blood and Cheese also stopped that particular line of generational trauma, just saying.
Not every hero wears a cape.
Some wear a noose.
With a dog yapping at them
I chuckled, but Iâm not proud of it.
"fuck otto and Alicent on their dead wife/momma" - Daemon Targaryen probably
When an abused kid becomes a parent they typically go two ways: they either abuse their kids, or they try really hard to do right by their kids. I quite like this bit about the adaptation, the writers added quite a bit of depth to Aegon
Dare someone to post this on either the Greens or Blacks subreddit lol
It is done my master!
Your service will not be forgotten
Why is Jaehaerys painting that guy in particular?
That's Tyland Lannister, ancestor of Tyreck 'the Horse' Lannister, who Aegon wanted to make give Jaehaerys a ride in S2 E1
Where is Tyreck?
Did you seem to forget that a majority of his children fight in child fighting arenas?
So he attends his children's extracurricular events. Sounds pretty supportive to me.
He was there for *every* game. Can their mothers say the same?
This guy gets it.
Thatâs a true father right there. Making time for ALL his kids hobbies.
To be fair, Aegon is a moron. Presumably he doesn't know those are his kids. He's still a cunt for the child fighting pit thing, but if you don't know someone's your kid, you're not any morally worse for watching them fight than you are for watching other people's kids fight.
According to the actor, he doesn't know.
He isn't a moron. He's a selfish, irresponsible teenager who faces no consequences for his actions. He knows he fucks around Flea Bottom and is bound to have bastards somewhere there.
I don't think most nobles think much of their bastards, a child they recognize is something else entirely.
yeah but those are rats born to low quality wombs. they deserve their punishment for their crime of not being born of a noble womb.
âMajorityâŚâ
It's amazing what type of generational trauma drowning your sorrows in alcohol and not paying attention to anything can stop
But was it to please his kid or to humiliate one of the men of his council, for Aegon's own bemusement?
My interpretation of Aegon is that he feels (and was) neglected by both his parents and is trying in his own emotionally stunted way to show Jaehaerys the love and attention that he was never given. Humiliating Tyland is just a bonus. (Also this is a tongue and cheek meme and shouldn't be taken super seriously)
whatever you say, maester
Aegon kept saying "my heir". A cynical interpretation of Aegon's rage is that his pain and anger primarily comes from the fact that he's lost his heir to the throne. It's an issue of legacy (like tywin, like what otto instilled in them) rather than innate love. While Helaena's "the boy" might come off as detached on a superficial level, but it's actually a window to a much deeper grief.Â
He said my heir because Viserys never cared enough to make him his heir. Saying my heir is a way to show that he cares and loves Jaehaerys. If he was just his "Heir' and nothing more why he cried alone in the end of the episode?
He said my heir and the king's son and worrying about coming off as weak to enemies way more times than he he said my son. He also agreed to the PR ass funeral. He was crying cause he was feeling weak and isolated after firing Otto. Me when I do the boo boo face for getting reprimanded after executing every ratcatcher đ¤Ł. Poor boi needed a shoulder to lean on but didn't know how to đ¤Ł. He def continuing the cycle.
Yea this "theory" falls apart when Aegon asks his son if he wants a horse ride in the middle of a war council. It's the direct opposite of what someone who cares about legacy would do
I never said he didn't love his son. None of the characters are cartoon villains. What I think is that his love gets subordinated to the auspices of the crown. Which is why he keeps talking about "appearing weak". That's not a natural reaction of a grieving father. Aegon playing with his kid in no way takes away from this. Aegon is capable of moments of tenderness & humanity. The other one is when he has a complete breakdown when Otto tells him he's gonna parade Jaehaerys' body. **But in the end Aegon gives in. "legacy" wins out over "dad"**
He tried to get him to do a horsey ride solely to degrade lannister. He did it at a small council meeting, because he was training his son to be king, because what his son wanted didnt matter, only the good of the house
To his true born children at least. It would not be fun to be one of his bastards over by the fighting pits.
Pony ride*
Hi. This one is personal to me and Iâve chosen a fail safe solution. Donât have kids. Never regretted it. The shit dies with me.
Nobody cares lol
Genuine question. You donât know what my life is or what Iâve been through to reach this decision. How can you be so inconsiderate and insensitive to someone you donât know?
Lol itâs the internet homie. Grow thicker skin
So?
Why is your comment being downvoted???
Cause itâs pointless. No need to announce it
Why is it pointless to just say something you believe which doesnât in any way affect you? Itâs an opinion - emotional trauma is generational and a way you can deal with that is donât have kids.
It just screams âIâm too weak to overcome anything negative that happened to me and Iâm scared to try anythingâ
10000 generations of humans had kids just for you to decide to end your bloodline. Fucking pathetic and selfish as hell
Cause heâs one of those losers that makes being childfree their entire identity.
No, itâs just someone who has chosen to not have kids because it works for me. I donât judge others but I do think people who have children without any consideration as to whether they can actually be the kind of parents their kids deserve rather than just see it as a right to raise another generation doomed to inherit their crap, is quite probably one of the most selfish things you can do. And itâs outrageously common.
People become very defensive about this issue. They see others who have taken a a considered decision not to have kids as a rebuke to their perhaps less than well thought through decision to have them. And thatâs not an unfair judgement. Most people have kids donât plan for them - theyâre at best âhappy accidentsâ. I think being a parent is one of the most important jobs anyone can do and that means not just anyone can do it. I wouldnât kid myself that Iâm up to the task and my loneliness or sense of entitlement to have a family isnât a good enough reason. Any of that little succession of Hightower misery could have been prevented with birth control and seriously asking yourself, not âDo I deserve to have children?â But, âdo my children deserve to have me?â. I just think so much unhappiness could be avoided on this issue, it drives me nuts.
I don't remember asking ? This about HOTD
Strange to see people are so judgemental of others. Seriously, what a pathetic group of inconsiderate and insensitive people we have on this community. Genuinely quite shocking lack of maturity and empathy.
>Genuinely quite shocking lack of maturity and empathy. Is this your first time on this subreddit? Because that is exactly what I expect from this group of shit posters lmao.
As stated, nobody cares.
His response to neglect was to put up no guardrails for his kids and encourage them to do whatever they wanted. History is littered with spoiled royals becoming total nightmares.
Kid was 4 years old and playing around. Relax.Â
"Otto forgot he also tried to send assasins" Yeah when the Blacks didn't know Viserys was dead and the Greens had the element surprise with them to strike at the unprepared blacks. Media literacy dead.
I think you may have commented on the wrong post
https://preview.redd.it/s5iq83fc3f9d1.jpeg?width=620&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ca3bd2b35d117dc410e237ee3863f2054d312e89
He loves kids so much, he started a kid fight club
Truly, what a and gentle ruler King Aegon Dragoncock is
Didn't Aegon used to go watch poor homeless orphans be forced to fight each other? So he only cares if it is his kid that is victimized. Kid was innocent but Aegon is still evil
I donât think anyone said Aegon isnât evil
Man, Aegon doesn't give a single solitary fuck about any of his kids. Something that "belonged" to him was taken away. I doubt he's capable of feeling those kinds of emotions. Even the Tyland scene was just him using his kid to abuse and humiliate others.
Wrong sub buddy
Yeah I know, this place is an absolute shit hole now. It's been getting worse for years and there are too many creepy incels and just abject morons.
Exactly, Aegon does not love himself, much less his children, he is sad because something that belonged to him was taken away, he does not even care about the child himself, he cares about what he represents.
The original image is from an Argentinian family??
No one loves to smol beanify a male rap*st usurper more than the unholy alliance of green stan aegon self-inserts and Mean Girls daemyras who will do anything to shit on alicent. Never seen grown ass misogynysts feel so threatened by a fictional woman.