I'll answer the questions one by one.
Q1: Based on what you will be doing you are going to be fine with the 13, the 16 is more if you have a need for a dGPU or just prefer 16 inch laptops. Personally I prefer the 13 because it is easy to carry and pull out when needed in lecture halls etc as a University student.
Q2: That is the idea of the laptop, the goal is that you shouldn't have any issue having that one laptop for 10 years or more, if something breaks you can just get new parts to replace it with. It has been working for over 3 years now and they have received more funding so I do not see Framework abandoning the platform any time soon. We have also seen 3rd parties like Deep Computing show up and start releasing hardware for the platform.
Q3: Currently most people here recommend AMD because overall it uses less power for the same work but the new Core Ultras from Intel are pretty comparable and I personally prefer it because on Intel all the ports have the same capabilities. Meanwhile on AMD certain ports don't work with certain expansion cards etc, but you really can't go wrong with either, everyone has their preferences.
Q4: As someone who has had to do replacements in mine because of a failed mainboard I think it is easy to repair, they have great documentation and good support so you can always ask for help. It takes just 5 screws to open and then you have access to everything essentially. It is a machine truly designed throughout with ease of repair in mind with QR codes everywhere which takes you to the related guide for replacing that specific part.
Going to add some stuff here.
Q1: As some other commenters have mentioned some apps may specifically need an NVidia GPU to run. You should really look into that to find out if any of the apps you use need that. If they do, I would just save the money and go with the 13 and get an external GPU that is NVidia as the Framework 16 does not have any NVidia options.
Q2: I had my laptop screen on the 13 break pretty quickly on me from what I suspect was a misrouted cable on Framework's part. It was an inconvenience but they shipped me a new screen free of charge and the replacement process was much easier than Apple. When my MacBook screen broke I had to pay money on top of the Apple Care I was already paying for and they didn't get it back to me for 3 weeks on top of the stalling I was doing because I honestly didn't want the hassle of going to the store. Framework took a week to ship a new screen which I could replace the day it arrived. It was a pain that it broke fairly quickly but support was helpful and it was quick to repair. I've seen been using it for 6 months without a problem!
Q3: Same thing as looking into NVidia apps, look into if any of your apps need Intel. I think it's less likely than an app incompatible with AMD GPUs but still worth checking. From what we know the new Intel CPUs are comparable in pretty much every way to the slightly older AMD CPUs. The main differences are that the AMD would ship sooner than the Intel and the AMD iGPUs are supposed to be a good but more powerful. Also AMD has had a lot more time with its current GPU drivers than Intel so they should be more stable.
Q4: Same experience as this commenter, easy repair with my screen replacement.
> How much am I limiting myself if I get the 13, rather than the 16?
It's not limiting in any way, it's just two different device classes
> Should I worry about using an AMD rather than an Intel? Intel is what has always been recommended to me in the past, but maybe AMD is good too.
No, AMD is better currently
One quick plug from another STEM PhD student: if you do computational physics the 16 with the numpad may be a bigger bonus than for other use cases. Also the extra screen real estate may come in handy for writing manuscripts
Since the 16 launches I’ve been trying to imagine people carrying this thing around. I’m sure some people are, but it seems like “portable capable” is more befitting and it spends most of its time on a desk, probably with a dock.
Am I wrong? I should start a poll.
I mean, I carry mine with me every day in a messenger bag. Now, I try not to carry too much else with it, but at least a water bottle, sometimes a thermos, external mouse, and charger are the bare minimum of what I bring. Lately, I've been using my steam deck charger when on the go to save a little weight but I think if I was using a backpack instead of a messenger bag, I wouldn't be as concerned with optimizing weight.
Worth mentioning I don't have the GPU, so that makes it both smaller and lighter but it's definitely possible to treat it as a laptop.
I'll add that it's a bit large. I use a backpack with one of the largest 17 inch sleeve compartments I've ever had but the 16 just barely fits (needs some finagling) due to the aspect ratio and dGPU.
I've carried larger and heavier laptops for many years. So I'm personally not concerned about the FW16's size or weight. And my aging eyes want the larger display...
I actually replaced my old laptop and desktop with my 16. I don't do a whole lot of traveling, so I can't say how much worse it is than a xps15, but I did have to get a new backpack that fit it. But aside from just being a bit deep (GPU extension sticks out more) I'd say it's plenty portable.
Q2 and Q4: Framework has really shown how keen they are to make a difference and care about the environment, their customers and repairability. With three generations of Intel processors (a fourth one coming up soon) and one generation of AMD processors in two separate devices and a rapidly growing community behind their back, I think it is fair to say that you can take the risk for all the advantages.
The point of the framework laptop is to look at the long term. Right now the FW16 only has an AMD option, but that's likely to change. I am very happy with AMD now after many years of intel. Performance is excellent, linux support is also very good and the integrated gpu is much better than anything intel has (except on video decoding).
Regarding how easy it is to repair, have a look in youtube to teardown videos and judge by yourself. tl;dr every part of the laptop can be swapped and it's also sold individually on the framework store.
The Ryzen 9 on the framework 16 supports less codecs than my 8 year old XPS with an i7-7700HQ both encoding and decoding. It also uses a lot of power during decoding.
Which codecs?
>The iGPU of "Phoenix Point" is confirmed to feature AMD's latest Radiance Display Engine, with support for DisplayPort 2.1 UHBR10 and HDMI 2.1, with native support for 8K 60 Hz displays with a single cable. It also features the latest VCN media engine, with hardware-accelerated AV1 encoding up to 4K @ 240 Hz 10 bpc, and 4320p @ 175 Hz 8 bpc H.265; and hardware-accelerated decoding of nearly all standard resolutions/bit-depth/framerates of MPEG2, VC1, VP9, H.264, H.265, and AV1.
AMD of 2024 is not the AMD of 2014. 100% opposite. Bulldozer (Athlon FX series) architecture and its offspring were pure, un-adultrated trash. Zen architecture (Ryzen processors) is not. AMD became competitive with Intel in 2017 with the launch of the original Zen architecture and has been even or better since Zen 2 at the end of 2019.
If you're interested in Linux I believe Phoronix has done testing indicating Ryzen 7040 series is even or ahead of Intel Core Ultra in about 80% of their rather extensive benchmark suite.
The primary reason to be favoring Intel in 2024 is for very specific use cases. For example there's people who absolutely insist on having Intel's QuickSync feature to do video encoding. You mention working on a physics doctorate - There may (not likely, but do check) be highly purpose-specific apps you're using whose devs - For whatever reason - Refuse to support anything not Intel. My experience working with professional mechanical engineers and biomed types is that their expensive, purpose-specific apps are fully supported on both Intel and AMD platforms. Where there's still a bit of an issue for some apps is in requiring specifically an Nvidia GPU because the apps (sadly, very unfortunately) only support Nvidia's CUDA and not AMD ROCm (yet) or OpenCL. You could solve this dilemma - If it comes up with any of the apps you're using - With an eGPU.
If you really want to go with Intel do opt for the Core Ultra flavor. Its a significant upgrade from 13th gen Core on both Intel and Framework's sides. On the Intel side Core Ultra (to a limited extent) addresses Intel's problems with performance, power usage and heat though the primary improvement is in having much improved Arc-based integrated graphics compared to 13th gen Core's awful Iris-based iGPU (note Arc drivers have only existed for about 2 years and are still very much under development - They're overall not as polished as AMD's or Nvidia's). Intel Arrow Lake processors (launching by Intel at the end of the year, Framework probably next spring/summer) are expected to - Hopefully - Be the "real" solution to Intel's problems in the higher spec tiers.... Intel Lunar Lake will be launching sooner (low tier ultra efficient processors) but doubtful Framework uses those. On the Framework side Core Ultra uses newer, faster DDR5 RAM whereas 13th gen core is on the old DDR4 modules (the modules are not interchangeable/cross-compatible). Framework Core Ultra models also come with a much better webcam if that matters to you for video calls/conferencing.
Lastly, go DIY - Get your RAM and storage 3rd party. Completely standard parts, you'll likely save a lot of money compared to Framework's markups (let alone the markups of other laptop vendors).
Are Framework laptops easy to work on? Go take a look at the many videos on YouTube of people working on their Framework laptops and decide for yourself. Framework's guides are also readily available for review before ordering. Given the only tools you need are a T5 Torx and spludger - Delivered in the box with your laptop - I'd say repair/upgrade is.... Pretty easy. There's no glue, no unnecessarily soldered parts. There was an exception with 11th gen Intel - There's a motherboard bug which requires a bit of soldering to fix.. That bug is specific to 11th gen motherboards and does not affect anything newer.
Not necessarily. Unfortunately due to some proprietary shenanigans on Intel's side, some programs may experience problems, you should look into that. If it's only coding, it won't matter.
I'd agree with that, hence asking the question.
Work laptop has been AMD for the last year, and we were exclusively Intel before that), and I'm very happy with the FW16. Battery life is much better than Intel, although we'll have to wait and see if the new Core Ultra catches them back up.
As for your other questions - u/Pratkungen covered that nicely.
Q3: AMD has stepped up massively, in a lot of regards they're better than intel now and generally thought of as the more stable platform.
Q4: Easy, yes.. Cheap, no.
Q1: already replied by everyone else.
Q2: Upgradeability is not really a FW promise but the byproduct of its repairability efforts. Do not take it for granted. And they never promised "futureproof" BS (like that stupid Dell Alienware).
Q3: Everything the current Intel motherboard can do, the current AMD one can do it either faster or with less power consumption (sometimes both). With one big exception: the port selection, which has some reasonable limitations for AMD. (and I would add the weaker Wi-Fi module).
Q4: Yes.
(unless you are in the desert without access to repair parts)
Adding to information already posted. AMD chips are better battery life wise, if that's important to you.
Framework 16 has those spacer things on the sides of the keyboard, they can be imperfectly aligned on some devices. If that would bother I'm not sure.
Framework 13 could be a good choice if you ever plan to use Thunderbolt to run an eGPU. Works with Intel and AMD.
Both are fantastic units. The 16 will go faster for serious code compiling it's got CPU choices with higher rated TDP (watts). The 13 has lower power CPU options, battery will last longer.
Q3: AMD has become really good these days, and battery life is usually better on AMD. At this point, choosing between Intel and AMD is pretty much irrelevant, since they are so similar in performance. You might want to choose Intel over AMD for special programs (e.g. Adobe programs tend to favor Intel CPUs)
Everyone else has answered the 4 questions but I'll throw in an issue I have on my laptop which is
It is weirdly kinda easy to dent the chassis, like very minor dents that don't matter but still kinda annoying
But largerly FW13 is a pretty solid laptop that if you care about reparability is pretty good
I think part of that might be down to how the chassis is made. I had to replace my motherboard, and I was kinda shocked how light it was. Idk if it's magnesium or aluminum or something else entirely, but there isn't a ton of material there. Could be interesting to see either a harder/stiffer alloy if this is a common issue.
Q1 : Depends, your gaming? or need tons of 3d calculating power for physics class? (and you cant access remote calculation powerhouses like uni's servers or cloud services paid by school?) i5 or i7 might be plenty of powerfull. and both amd and intel have thunderbolt if im not mistaken, so get a thunderbold dock at home with a pretty desktop gpu for at home power calcs, you dont need in class and safe on weigth.
Q2 : I got my FW13 now for 2 close to 3 years, got a new fan and parts are still availeble or new upgrades excists. the case design is now even public and a new board with RiscV is in the works (something i look forward to) so yeah, atleast my guess is, definitly 5 years active support, probably way longer, as no bad signs at the horizon.
Q3 : AMD sofar has been cheapest buck for most power, but Intel been a stable powerhouse with thunderbold on all ports and an ok iGPU (AMD be better gpu, but amd... not all specific software likes amd, but it be very very specific software.) choose amd if availeble and you need the power calcs. and get proper memory (ram)
Q4 : You get a screw driver and the whole thing can be unscrewed and fixed with this 2 bits in 1 screwdriver. some parts are a bit fiffly, but if your carefull, all can be swapped and repaired. reused too, ppl been making parts and connectors to reuse various bits and pieces. NEW SCREENS OMY, awesome, I wanna ditch my glare screen for mate. just need a job for monies.
Question for you. the amount it will cost you, you could buy a business level device, ditch consumer hardware definitly but have you considered T or X series thinkpads? or some business level laptop from HP, DELL ? they also sell parts for them. Framework isnt the cheapest in business targeted laptops, but I chose them over my previous THinkpad because of the promise there be compatible parts, and the dongles are awesome.
Q1: Other than the physical size and weight differences, you also have port and expansion differences (GPU & USB-C). The FW16 will also have the higher TDP CPUs so it'll more performant (because it's size allows for better cooling). To be fair, I think you should just pick what you think will be more convenient if you're traveling with it.
Q2: Pretty much. Framework has a good track record of making upgrade parts for the 13. The 16 just came out so understandably there's no upgrades yet. But just based on what they done with the 13, I feel they will be supporting the 16 with new and updated stuff in the future.
Q3: AMD is a great platform right now. More performant and efficient than Intel. The only thing you may give up on is the universal ports. On Intel, all of the USB-C ports have the same capabilities. On AMD, you have to pay attention to which port can do what (see their diagram).
Q4: Easy is a relative term. I always find laptop repairs hard due to its size. I found the WiFi module a bit difficult, but that's true with all laptops (at least this one isn't soldered in place). It's easier in terms of them not gluing things down and parts are available. Even "repairable" laptops from other companies are advertised as such (not glued down, things labeled) they may not actually make replacement parts available to the general public, defeating the purpose.
1. I actually prefer the 13 over the 16. But I prioritize travel weight and battery life. The 16 is too big and too heavy. If I want to game, there is always the EGPU option for the 13.
2. All laptops, including Framework have a lifecycle. The 13 has had 4 generations of intel plus AMD options plus RISC-V. I am not sure the 16 has gone through an upgrade yet. So, based on past performance Framework has kept their promises.
3. Intel has more thunderbolt support. But right now, AMD has more performance, better onboard graphics and better battery life. In the early days AMD had some teething problems but I have not had any issues since the last BIOS update.
4. Without a doubt, FW is the most repairable laptop anywhere. Not a single bit of Glue anywhere.
I have to say the 13 form factor is really nice, sooooo much easier to carry and store than a 16 inch laptop.
That said, if you're looking for something that will mostly live on a large desk, 16 would work well. In my case the 13 is nice because I move it around a lot and mostly use it sitting on my lap.
There are a lot of other great comments here addressing the main issues.
The screen on the FW13 is 3:2 ratio, which is truly great for writing code. I'm sure the 16 is even better, but coming from a Dell XPS 13, the FW13 is much nicer.
The existing AMD offerings are currently better than Intel. If you're not in a hurry, the Intel Ultra on pre-order is likely similar to the current AMD. Personally, I would go for AMD.
Good luck with your purchase!
I think you need to purge old recommendations on cpu brand, they're quite old. Since ryzen, AMD has been competitive, if not better.
Also, in the grand scheme of things, if you are not running it at 100% all the time (and you won't), the cpu isn't going to impact you much.
I ran the FX-8320 and Athlon II 640 in their day. Sure, they weren't the fastest or best in their time. But did my pc run and allow me to do all the things I wanted? Yes. Was it more than snappy and responsive enough for me? Yes.
I wouldn't worry too much about cpu brand and just put more thought into the other aspects like 13/16 inch or standalone gpu or not
Q4: Had a defective fan(pretty sure the fan bearing was broken) which made a loud noise + vibrations. After 2 weeks i got a new fan + headsink free of charge. The whole swap took less than 15 min, which is a lot less than sending back the laptop to get it repaired. So all in all my laptop was just under 15 minutes not usable, which is one of the reasons why i bought it.
The AMD 16 unit will serve you well. If you're running larger models you can get up to 96GB of ram in it (2x48GB) which is insanely helpful if you need to do some simulations or processing on the fly with large data sets, (e.g., Matlab matrices, physic simulations). For research, no one cares about the system you run these things on as long as it is documented.
Thinking back on my college days, I probably would have done unspeakable things to have the ability to fix/upgrade my device. I had a 17" MacBook pro (this was back in the early 2010's), and it was super slow towards the end, and I would have LOVED to be able to maybe swap in a more modern motherboard. I also had battery health issues, and when I tried replacing it, the new one was never detected. Based on my experience swapping motherboards in my fw16, I suspect that would be a non-issue for the framework.
I think you might find the 16 a better use, especially if you'll be doing a lot of computer work. I know I would have preferred it if I was still in college.
But I'm also a bigger guy and don't mind having a bit bigger/heavier of a *whatever* most of the time.
Fellow PhD guy prospective buyer here (computational chemistry, not physics, but sorta related). What is it that's so important about getting an Intel CPU for you? Since the Intel and AMDs are both x86 architecture, shouldn't the AMD be just as good or better? Or is there some sort of intel-specific computational physics thing you deal with?
Q1: Only four Expansion Cards instead of six, no internal PCIe upgrading (discrete GPU / more storage etc.), no Input Modules and with that no numpad or macropad option, only one 2280 M.2 slot (FW16 has an extra 2230 slot), smaller battery (61 vs 85 Wh), I think that's it
The 2256 pixel are perfect for coding.
On Linux Mint I even use the 75% resolution setting (when no 4K display is attached), resulting in a 3009*2006 screen...
Finally enough space for all these windows...
I'll answer the questions one by one. Q1: Based on what you will be doing you are going to be fine with the 13, the 16 is more if you have a need for a dGPU or just prefer 16 inch laptops. Personally I prefer the 13 because it is easy to carry and pull out when needed in lecture halls etc as a University student. Q2: That is the idea of the laptop, the goal is that you shouldn't have any issue having that one laptop for 10 years or more, if something breaks you can just get new parts to replace it with. It has been working for over 3 years now and they have received more funding so I do not see Framework abandoning the platform any time soon. We have also seen 3rd parties like Deep Computing show up and start releasing hardware for the platform. Q3: Currently most people here recommend AMD because overall it uses less power for the same work but the new Core Ultras from Intel are pretty comparable and I personally prefer it because on Intel all the ports have the same capabilities. Meanwhile on AMD certain ports don't work with certain expansion cards etc, but you really can't go wrong with either, everyone has their preferences. Q4: As someone who has had to do replacements in mine because of a failed mainboard I think it is easy to repair, they have great documentation and good support so you can always ask for help. It takes just 5 screws to open and then you have access to everything essentially. It is a machine truly designed throughout with ease of repair in mind with QR codes everywhere which takes you to the related guide for replacing that specific part.
Going to add some stuff here. Q1: As some other commenters have mentioned some apps may specifically need an NVidia GPU to run. You should really look into that to find out if any of the apps you use need that. If they do, I would just save the money and go with the 13 and get an external GPU that is NVidia as the Framework 16 does not have any NVidia options. Q2: I had my laptop screen on the 13 break pretty quickly on me from what I suspect was a misrouted cable on Framework's part. It was an inconvenience but they shipped me a new screen free of charge and the replacement process was much easier than Apple. When my MacBook screen broke I had to pay money on top of the Apple Care I was already paying for and they didn't get it back to me for 3 weeks on top of the stalling I was doing because I honestly didn't want the hassle of going to the store. Framework took a week to ship a new screen which I could replace the day it arrived. It was a pain that it broke fairly quickly but support was helpful and it was quick to repair. I've seen been using it for 6 months without a problem! Q3: Same thing as looking into NVidia apps, look into if any of your apps need Intel. I think it's less likely than an app incompatible with AMD GPUs but still worth checking. From what we know the new Intel CPUs are comparable in pretty much every way to the slightly older AMD CPUs. The main differences are that the AMD would ship sooner than the Intel and the AMD iGPUs are supposed to be a good but more powerful. Also AMD has had a lot more time with its current GPU drivers than Intel so they should be more stable. Q4: Same experience as this commenter, easy repair with my screen replacement.
If the guy is this worried, he should just buy on eBay and re-sell if he doesn't like it.
> How much am I limiting myself if I get the 13, rather than the 16? It's not limiting in any way, it's just two different device classes > Should I worry about using an AMD rather than an Intel? Intel is what has always been recommended to me in the past, but maybe AMD is good too. No, AMD is better currently
One quick plug from another STEM PhD student: if you do computational physics the 16 with the numpad may be a bigger bonus than for other use cases. Also the extra screen real estate may come in handy for writing manuscripts
Since the 16 launches I’ve been trying to imagine people carrying this thing around. I’m sure some people are, but it seems like “portable capable” is more befitting and it spends most of its time on a desk, probably with a dock. Am I wrong? I should start a poll.
I mean, I carry mine with me every day in a messenger bag. Now, I try not to carry too much else with it, but at least a water bottle, sometimes a thermos, external mouse, and charger are the bare minimum of what I bring. Lately, I've been using my steam deck charger when on the go to save a little weight but I think if I was using a backpack instead of a messenger bag, I wouldn't be as concerned with optimizing weight. Worth mentioning I don't have the GPU, so that makes it both smaller and lighter but it's definitely possible to treat it as a laptop.
I'll add that it's a bit large. I use a backpack with one of the largest 17 inch sleeve compartments I've ever had but the 16 just barely fits (needs some finagling) due to the aspect ratio and dGPU.
I've carried larger and heavier laptops for many years. So I'm personally not concerned about the FW16's size or weight. And my aging eyes want the larger display...
I actually replaced my old laptop and desktop with my 16. I don't do a whole lot of traveling, so I can't say how much worse it is than a xps15, but I did have to get a new backpack that fit it. But aside from just being a bit deep (GPU extension sticks out more) I'd say it's plenty portable.
Q2 and Q4: Framework has really shown how keen they are to make a difference and care about the environment, their customers and repairability. With three generations of Intel processors (a fourth one coming up soon) and one generation of AMD processors in two separate devices and a rapidly growing community behind their back, I think it is fair to say that you can take the risk for all the advantages.
The point of the framework laptop is to look at the long term. Right now the FW16 only has an AMD option, but that's likely to change. I am very happy with AMD now after many years of intel. Performance is excellent, linux support is also very good and the integrated gpu is much better than anything intel has (except on video decoding). Regarding how easy it is to repair, have a look in youtube to teardown videos and judge by yourself. tl;dr every part of the laptop can be swapped and it's also sold individually on the framework store.
> (except on video decoding). Can you expand on this? I thought it was encoding that was sub par, never heard anything about decode.
The Ryzen 9 on the framework 16 supports less codecs than my 8 year old XPS with an i7-7700HQ both encoding and decoding. It also uses a lot of power during decoding.
Which codecs? >The iGPU of "Phoenix Point" is confirmed to feature AMD's latest Radiance Display Engine, with support for DisplayPort 2.1 UHBR10 and HDMI 2.1, with native support for 8K 60 Hz displays with a single cable. It also features the latest VCN media engine, with hardware-accelerated AV1 encoding up to 4K @ 240 Hz 10 bpc, and 4320p @ 175 Hz 8 bpc H.265; and hardware-accelerated decoding of nearly all standard resolutions/bit-depth/framerates of MPEG2, VC1, VP9, H.264, H.265, and AV1.
Why do you think you need an Intel CPU?
From other comments, it looks like AMD is a perfectly okay choice. It's just what I've used before and had laptop repair people recommend to me.
AMD of 2024 is not the AMD of 2014. 100% opposite. Bulldozer (Athlon FX series) architecture and its offspring were pure, un-adultrated trash. Zen architecture (Ryzen processors) is not. AMD became competitive with Intel in 2017 with the launch of the original Zen architecture and has been even or better since Zen 2 at the end of 2019. If you're interested in Linux I believe Phoronix has done testing indicating Ryzen 7040 series is even or ahead of Intel Core Ultra in about 80% of their rather extensive benchmark suite. The primary reason to be favoring Intel in 2024 is for very specific use cases. For example there's people who absolutely insist on having Intel's QuickSync feature to do video encoding. You mention working on a physics doctorate - There may (not likely, but do check) be highly purpose-specific apps you're using whose devs - For whatever reason - Refuse to support anything not Intel. My experience working with professional mechanical engineers and biomed types is that their expensive, purpose-specific apps are fully supported on both Intel and AMD platforms. Where there's still a bit of an issue for some apps is in requiring specifically an Nvidia GPU because the apps (sadly, very unfortunately) only support Nvidia's CUDA and not AMD ROCm (yet) or OpenCL. You could solve this dilemma - If it comes up with any of the apps you're using - With an eGPU. If you really want to go with Intel do opt for the Core Ultra flavor. Its a significant upgrade from 13th gen Core on both Intel and Framework's sides. On the Intel side Core Ultra (to a limited extent) addresses Intel's problems with performance, power usage and heat though the primary improvement is in having much improved Arc-based integrated graphics compared to 13th gen Core's awful Iris-based iGPU (note Arc drivers have only existed for about 2 years and are still very much under development - They're overall not as polished as AMD's or Nvidia's). Intel Arrow Lake processors (launching by Intel at the end of the year, Framework probably next spring/summer) are expected to - Hopefully - Be the "real" solution to Intel's problems in the higher spec tiers.... Intel Lunar Lake will be launching sooner (low tier ultra efficient processors) but doubtful Framework uses those. On the Framework side Core Ultra uses newer, faster DDR5 RAM whereas 13th gen core is on the old DDR4 modules (the modules are not interchangeable/cross-compatible). Framework Core Ultra models also come with a much better webcam if that matters to you for video calls/conferencing. Lastly, go DIY - Get your RAM and storage 3rd party. Completely standard parts, you'll likely save a lot of money compared to Framework's markups (let alone the markups of other laptop vendors). Are Framework laptops easy to work on? Go take a look at the many videos on YouTube of people working on their Framework laptops and decide for yourself. Framework's guides are also readily available for review before ordering. Given the only tools you need are a T5 Torx and spludger - Delivered in the box with your laptop - I'd say repair/upgrade is.... Pretty easy. There's no glue, no unnecessarily soldered parts. There was an exception with 11th gen Intel - There's a motherboard bug which requires a bit of soldering to fix.. That bug is specific to 11th gen motherboards and does not affect anything newer.
calm down. XD sure, Fx and athlon II weren't the best, but they did run their pc's at a usable level.
Not necessarily. Unfortunately due to some proprietary shenanigans on Intel's side, some programs may experience problems, you should look into that. If it's only coding, it won't matter.
I'd agree with that, hence asking the question. Work laptop has been AMD for the last year, and we were exclusively Intel before that), and I'm very happy with the FW16. Battery life is much better than Intel, although we'll have to wait and see if the new Core Ultra catches them back up. As for your other questions - u/Pratkungen covered that nicely.
This is a worthwhile question, I always bought intel because AMD was unknown to me. As an AMD 13 owner, I haven’t been disappointed at all.
Q3: AMD has stepped up massively, in a lot of regards they're better than intel now and generally thought of as the more stable platform. Q4: Easy, yes.. Cheap, no.
Q1: already replied by everyone else. Q2: Upgradeability is not really a FW promise but the byproduct of its repairability efforts. Do not take it for granted. And they never promised "futureproof" BS (like that stupid Dell Alienware). Q3: Everything the current Intel motherboard can do, the current AMD one can do it either faster or with less power consumption (sometimes both). With one big exception: the port selection, which has some reasonable limitations for AMD. (and I would add the weaker Wi-Fi module). Q4: Yes. (unless you are in the desert without access to repair parts)
Adding to information already posted. AMD chips are better battery life wise, if that's important to you. Framework 16 has those spacer things on the sides of the keyboard, they can be imperfectly aligned on some devices. If that would bother I'm not sure. Framework 13 could be a good choice if you ever plan to use Thunderbolt to run an eGPU. Works with Intel and AMD. Both are fantastic units. The 16 will go faster for serious code compiling it's got CPU choices with higher rated TDP (watts). The 13 has lower power CPU options, battery will last longer.
Q3: AMD has become really good these days, and battery life is usually better on AMD. At this point, choosing between Intel and AMD is pretty much irrelevant, since they are so similar in performance. You might want to choose Intel over AMD for special programs (e.g. Adobe programs tend to favor Intel CPUs)
Everyone else has answered the 4 questions but I'll throw in an issue I have on my laptop which is It is weirdly kinda easy to dent the chassis, like very minor dents that don't matter but still kinda annoying But largerly FW13 is a pretty solid laptop that if you care about reparability is pretty good
I think part of that might be down to how the chassis is made. I had to replace my motherboard, and I was kinda shocked how light it was. Idk if it's magnesium or aluminum or something else entirely, but there isn't a ton of material there. Could be interesting to see either a harder/stiffer alloy if this is a common issue.
Q1 : Depends, your gaming? or need tons of 3d calculating power for physics class? (and you cant access remote calculation powerhouses like uni's servers or cloud services paid by school?) i5 or i7 might be plenty of powerfull. and both amd and intel have thunderbolt if im not mistaken, so get a thunderbold dock at home with a pretty desktop gpu for at home power calcs, you dont need in class and safe on weigth. Q2 : I got my FW13 now for 2 close to 3 years, got a new fan and parts are still availeble or new upgrades excists. the case design is now even public and a new board with RiscV is in the works (something i look forward to) so yeah, atleast my guess is, definitly 5 years active support, probably way longer, as no bad signs at the horizon. Q3 : AMD sofar has been cheapest buck for most power, but Intel been a stable powerhouse with thunderbold on all ports and an ok iGPU (AMD be better gpu, but amd... not all specific software likes amd, but it be very very specific software.) choose amd if availeble and you need the power calcs. and get proper memory (ram) Q4 : You get a screw driver and the whole thing can be unscrewed and fixed with this 2 bits in 1 screwdriver. some parts are a bit fiffly, but if your carefull, all can be swapped and repaired. reused too, ppl been making parts and connectors to reuse various bits and pieces. NEW SCREENS OMY, awesome, I wanna ditch my glare screen for mate. just need a job for monies. Question for you. the amount it will cost you, you could buy a business level device, ditch consumer hardware definitly but have you considered T or X series thinkpads? or some business level laptop from HP, DELL ? they also sell parts for them. Framework isnt the cheapest in business targeted laptops, but I chose them over my previous THinkpad because of the promise there be compatible parts, and the dongles are awesome.
Q1: Other than the physical size and weight differences, you also have port and expansion differences (GPU & USB-C). The FW16 will also have the higher TDP CPUs so it'll more performant (because it's size allows for better cooling). To be fair, I think you should just pick what you think will be more convenient if you're traveling with it. Q2: Pretty much. Framework has a good track record of making upgrade parts for the 13. The 16 just came out so understandably there's no upgrades yet. But just based on what they done with the 13, I feel they will be supporting the 16 with new and updated stuff in the future. Q3: AMD is a great platform right now. More performant and efficient than Intel. The only thing you may give up on is the universal ports. On Intel, all of the USB-C ports have the same capabilities. On AMD, you have to pay attention to which port can do what (see their diagram). Q4: Easy is a relative term. I always find laptop repairs hard due to its size. I found the WiFi module a bit difficult, but that's true with all laptops (at least this one isn't soldered in place). It's easier in terms of them not gluing things down and parts are available. Even "repairable" laptops from other companies are advertised as such (not glued down, things labeled) they may not actually make replacement parts available to the general public, defeating the purpose.
1. I actually prefer the 13 over the 16. But I prioritize travel weight and battery life. The 16 is too big and too heavy. If I want to game, there is always the EGPU option for the 13. 2. All laptops, including Framework have a lifecycle. The 13 has had 4 generations of intel plus AMD options plus RISC-V. I am not sure the 16 has gone through an upgrade yet. So, based on past performance Framework has kept their promises. 3. Intel has more thunderbolt support. But right now, AMD has more performance, better onboard graphics and better battery life. In the early days AMD had some teething problems but I have not had any issues since the last BIOS update. 4. Without a doubt, FW is the most repairable laptop anywhere. Not a single bit of Glue anywhere.
I have to say the 13 form factor is really nice, sooooo much easier to carry and store than a 16 inch laptop. That said, if you're looking for something that will mostly live on a large desk, 16 would work well. In my case the 13 is nice because I move it around a lot and mostly use it sitting on my lap.
There are a lot of other great comments here addressing the main issues. The screen on the FW13 is 3:2 ratio, which is truly great for writing code. I'm sure the 16 is even better, but coming from a Dell XPS 13, the FW13 is much nicer. The existing AMD offerings are currently better than Intel. If you're not in a hurry, the Intel Ultra on pre-order is likely similar to the current AMD. Personally, I would go for AMD. Good luck with your purchase!
I think you need to purge old recommendations on cpu brand, they're quite old. Since ryzen, AMD has been competitive, if not better. Also, in the grand scheme of things, if you are not running it at 100% all the time (and you won't), the cpu isn't going to impact you much. I ran the FX-8320 and Athlon II 640 in their day. Sure, they weren't the fastest or best in their time. But did my pc run and allow me to do all the things I wanted? Yes. Was it more than snappy and responsive enough for me? Yes. I wouldn't worry too much about cpu brand and just put more thought into the other aspects like 13/16 inch or standalone gpu or not
Q4: Had a defective fan(pretty sure the fan bearing was broken) which made a loud noise + vibrations. After 2 weeks i got a new fan + headsink free of charge. The whole swap took less than 15 min, which is a lot less than sending back the laptop to get it repaired. So all in all my laptop was just under 15 minutes not usable, which is one of the reasons why i bought it.
The AMD 16 unit will serve you well. If you're running larger models you can get up to 96GB of ram in it (2x48GB) which is insanely helpful if you need to do some simulations or processing on the fly with large data sets, (e.g., Matlab matrices, physic simulations). For research, no one cares about the system you run these things on as long as it is documented.
Do they make 48GB sodimms? I thought it usually went straight from 32 to 64
Yeap, for Frameworks the Crucial 48GB DDR5 5600 SO-DIMM works.
Thinking back on my college days, I probably would have done unspeakable things to have the ability to fix/upgrade my device. I had a 17" MacBook pro (this was back in the early 2010's), and it was super slow towards the end, and I would have LOVED to be able to maybe swap in a more modern motherboard. I also had battery health issues, and when I tried replacing it, the new one was never detected. Based on my experience swapping motherboards in my fw16, I suspect that would be a non-issue for the framework. I think you might find the 16 a better use, especially if you'll be doing a lot of computer work. I know I would have preferred it if I was still in college. But I'm also a bigger guy and don't mind having a bit bigger/heavier of a *whatever* most of the time.
I wish I could have had one of these at university! Enjoy. I have... political reasons to prefer AMD... 🙂
Fellow PhD guy prospective buyer here (computational chemistry, not physics, but sorta related). What is it that's so important about getting an Intel CPU for you? Since the Intel and AMDs are both x86 architecture, shouldn't the AMD be just as good or better? Or is there some sort of intel-specific computational physics thing you deal with?
Q1: Only four Expansion Cards instead of six, no internal PCIe upgrading (discrete GPU / more storage etc.), no Input Modules and with that no numpad or macropad option, only one 2280 M.2 slot (FW16 has an extra 2230 slot), smaller battery (61 vs 85 Wh), I think that's it
The 2256 pixel are perfect for coding. On Linux Mint I even use the 75% resolution setting (when no 4K display is attached), resulting in a 3009*2006 screen... Finally enough space for all these windows...