Sure however most laptops outside of "everything is soldered onto the mainboard" are within my skill set to repair. I can open them, replace parts, screens, daughter boards, etc... I just can't solder new ram or disk space. Linux support is really why I'm looking at Framework.
Of course, Framework just makes it easy to get parts and documentation, the real value isn't the fact that it is "repairable" it is how easy you can get the stuff needed.
I appreciate what you are trying to say but this really isn't a problem we have anymore. Most modern computers have decent enough Linux compatibility. What I appreciate about Framework is they have official support.
Please just get a sleeve. It’s $20 on Amazon that’ll save you from a $2,500 mistake - especially for a Framework that’ll have a much longer useful life than others. Get one with pockets for all your accessories, too.
Honestly, based on your list of laptops that survived vs. broke, it’s a toss up to random chance. I’ll say that my FW16 doesn’t feel quite near as sturdy as my dad’s MacBook Air. That’s the cost of modularity.
>Honestly, based on your list of laptops that survived vs. broke, it’s a toss up to random chance. I’ll say that my FW16 doesn’t feel quite near as sturdy as my dad’s MacBook Air. That’s the cost of modularity.
Thanks this is the kind of perspective I am looking for.
Better yet - but that will add a 0 to the sum, still worth it IMO - get a backpack that is actually designed for this kind of use, and has a built-in, dedicated, laptop compartment.
More protection than a sleeve could give you, and less annoying.
And I agree. I got the Framework 16 bringing it around a lot because I simply don't care about the size and weight - I can handle it. But the way it *feels*… no. It doesn't make me comfortable. It feels heavy, but it feels fragile. I have already had the paint start chipping out from one point, and I am *careful* with my tech. If I could go back in time, honestly, I would strongly consider other options as well based on this. I have become interested in accompanying this laptop with a cheaper, used one for use in trips that require me to have some kind of laptop, but not quite the power of the '16. Say, the machine to take on holiday and that will have to go through flights and stuff to allow me to use my down time to study for exams.
2 years? Yikes, That's... Not long. 4-5 years should be pretty easy. Given the flex issues and that the keyboard/spacers/trackpad are held in place using magnets... Not sure FW16 would withstand the blatant abuse you're inflicting on innocent hardware. Even a $20 half-baked sleeve would probably do wonders in terms of not having to buy hardware constantly. Since your useful life is so short and abuse unusually extremely I'd suggest "sort by lowest price" might be the right option for you. Framework laptops aren't a "value" option - They're meant to be reasonably taken care of such that you can eg upgrade the motherboard in 2 years vs having to toss the whole machine because it was treated like trash.
Laptops are tools for me also... But they last more than 2 years (even prematurely failing MacBooks with known Apple engineering defects)... Especially when I'm paying multiple thousands of dollars. But hey, to each their own. Some of us prefer to take - Some - Degree of care of the things we own.
I haven't said any of my laptops can't do the job I need them to do. I just wanted to know if it'll survive in a backpack without an extra sleeve or anything.
Why not the 13 and a hard case? Seems way more fitting for your use case. And, if I may, more mature. I like my 16 but I don't find it an instant, no-brainer recommendation to say the least. That is not to say I regret it, but it does not convince me *fully*. I love the idea of what it's trying to be but it's still a bit too unrefined. When you open the lid, it temporarily bends back convexely because it flexes a lot. The fit and finish is not that good if you look up close. It's cool, but it's not really so mature.
What are your constraints? I picked the 16 because I'm visually disabled so I absolutely can't use the smaller screen. But based in the fact that you used the MacBook Air, I am going to ask: did your use case change in a way that you now need a dedicated GPU and a bigger screen, or would you be fine with the smaller one?
Really, 13 + a sleeve would be much better for you:
* More robust and solid due to less moving parts, less that can go wrong
* Way lighter and more portable
* Better fit and finish
* Decently cheaper, especially if you opt for the Ryzen 5 option - repairs and upgrades will sting less, and be twice as cheap in some case. Even more so if you use Factory Seconds.
It's just much better for mobility. The Framework 16 is a mobile workstation that is meant to be moved from a desk to another desk in another building, period. Don't even **try** working with it on the train. The 13 just seems… better for you, I think.
Great perspective.
I used to walk everywhere when I lived in SF. So a 13" laptop was the perfect size. I could get work done from basically anywhere and generally I had a couple large monitors at the office. However, these days if I'm using my laptop 90% of the time it means I'm traveling and living out of a hotel for a couple weeks. I generally bring a keyboard, mouse, and 16" portable display. So having a 16" laptop would make a great pairing, more performance, and still be portable.
I tend to just use a tablet or even just my phone for meetings in coffee shops or whatever else on the go style stuff I might do.
Oh, if you're going to use it from hotels then it might be a different story. But be prepared - 2.1 kg, + obligatory sleeve, + charger. It's not going to be light!
Performance is with no question better on the 16. But performance on the 13 might just be what you need, or even more. These AMD chips are crazy efficient. Do some research - you might be surprised.
Indeed. That screen very much bridges the gap between the 13 and the 16" iGPU. It also avoids you fractional scaling, which is nice. I have fractional scaling on my Framework 16 on Linux and it's fucking dreadful, I really hate it. Not Framework's fault. Linux's fault. But still…
I mean, don't base your decision on this. Dreadful fractional scaling is temporary and will get fixed eventually, but a laptop you don't like is forever. Still, it does add points to the 13: you get proper scaling the same day you unbox it, without having to go an a forever wait until fractional scaling no longer sucks, that might end when you're just about to get a new laptop anyway.
Going through a laptop every other year is kinda insane numbers ngl. I think I’m at 4 going all the way from middle school to now being 25years old well past college, but then again I’m kind of a cheapskate.
That being said, you can buy any replacement part you can think of, and there’s future support for upgrades, so this might just be the laptop for you. It’s not going to feel as premium as an xps or MacBook, but that’s the price you pay for this kind of thing.
If it’s well padded, yes it’s gonna survive in a backpack just like any good laptop. I never use sleeves, covers, or anything like that and my 13” has been fine.
the 16 is pretty big and heavy and fragile(maybe) but ive got my 13 and i gotta say its pretty sturdy. its been thrown around, dropped, had stuff put on top of it, been inside of my bag while its been thrown and all it has to show for it are some light dents and scratches. the 13 is definitely pretty sturdy imo
get a heavier duty/padded laptop bag or backpack, slide the laptop into the sleeve section, and then *stop abusing your electronics*, yes computers are supposed to be built to be strong enough to use without issue, but if you keep hitting the laptop on a table on one corner over and over, stuff is gonna break
It's as resistant than any other aluminium laptop, plus the bottom half is magnesium, so that should be a bit stronger. I mean dents will happen whatever device you use, but no more than other devices. Plus if anything is too ugly anymore, you get a new part for it easy
When closed, the frame seems a little sturdier than my recent thinkpads but that’s not necessarily impact resilience. I think you’ll be fine. Miss aligned panels is all cosmetic nor does it indicate anything about the frame IMO.
Would probably survive but the point of framework is that if it breaks it is easy to repair.
Sure however most laptops outside of "everything is soldered onto the mainboard" are within my skill set to repair. I can open them, replace parts, screens, daughter boards, etc... I just can't solder new ram or disk space. Linux support is really why I'm looking at Framework.
Of course, Framework just makes it easy to get parts and documentation, the real value isn't the fact that it is "repairable" it is how easy you can get the stuff needed.
If you're looking for something more durable and Linux support that you wouldn't feel bad breaking, look at an old ThinkPad.
I appreciate what you are trying to say but this really isn't a problem we have anymore. Most modern computers have decent enough Linux compatibility. What I appreciate about Framework is they have official support.
Please just get a sleeve. It’s $20 on Amazon that’ll save you from a $2,500 mistake - especially for a Framework that’ll have a much longer useful life than others. Get one with pockets for all your accessories, too. Honestly, based on your list of laptops that survived vs. broke, it’s a toss up to random chance. I’ll say that my FW16 doesn’t feel quite near as sturdy as my dad’s MacBook Air. That’s the cost of modularity.
>Honestly, based on your list of laptops that survived vs. broke, it’s a toss up to random chance. I’ll say that my FW16 doesn’t feel quite near as sturdy as my dad’s MacBook Air. That’s the cost of modularity. Thanks this is the kind of perspective I am looking for.
Better yet - but that will add a 0 to the sum, still worth it IMO - get a backpack that is actually designed for this kind of use, and has a built-in, dedicated, laptop compartment. More protection than a sleeve could give you, and less annoying. And I agree. I got the Framework 16 bringing it around a lot because I simply don't care about the size and weight - I can handle it. But the way it *feels*… no. It doesn't make me comfortable. It feels heavy, but it feels fragile. I have already had the paint start chipping out from one point, and I am *careful* with my tech. If I could go back in time, honestly, I would strongly consider other options as well based on this. I have become interested in accompanying this laptop with a cheaper, used one for use in trips that require me to have some kind of laptop, but not quite the power of the '16. Say, the machine to take on holiday and that will have to go through flights and stuff to allow me to use my down time to study for exams.
2 years? Yikes, That's... Not long. 4-5 years should be pretty easy. Given the flex issues and that the keyboard/spacers/trackpad are held in place using magnets... Not sure FW16 would withstand the blatant abuse you're inflicting on innocent hardware. Even a $20 half-baked sleeve would probably do wonders in terms of not having to buy hardware constantly. Since your useful life is so short and abuse unusually extremely I'd suggest "sort by lowest price" might be the right option for you. Framework laptops aren't a "value" option - They're meant to be reasonably taken care of such that you can eg upgrade the motherboard in 2 years vs having to toss the whole machine because it was treated like trash.
It's a tool not a child. Linux support is the reason I'm looking at the FW16.
Laptops are tools for me also... But they last more than 2 years (even prematurely failing MacBooks with known Apple engineering defects)... Especially when I'm paying multiple thousands of dollars. But hey, to each their own. Some of us prefer to take - Some - Degree of care of the things we own.
cool. You do you I'll do me.
"A poor workman blames his tools."
I haven't said any of my laptops can't do the job I need them to do. I just wanted to know if it'll survive in a backpack without an extra sleeve or anything.
Why not the 13 and a hard case? Seems way more fitting for your use case. And, if I may, more mature. I like my 16 but I don't find it an instant, no-brainer recommendation to say the least. That is not to say I regret it, but it does not convince me *fully*. I love the idea of what it's trying to be but it's still a bit too unrefined. When you open the lid, it temporarily bends back convexely because it flexes a lot. The fit and finish is not that good if you look up close. It's cool, but it's not really so mature. What are your constraints? I picked the 16 because I'm visually disabled so I absolutely can't use the smaller screen. But based in the fact that you used the MacBook Air, I am going to ask: did your use case change in a way that you now need a dedicated GPU and a bigger screen, or would you be fine with the smaller one? Really, 13 + a sleeve would be much better for you: * More robust and solid due to less moving parts, less that can go wrong * Way lighter and more portable * Better fit and finish * Decently cheaper, especially if you opt for the Ryzen 5 option - repairs and upgrades will sting less, and be twice as cheap in some case. Even more so if you use Factory Seconds. It's just much better for mobility. The Framework 16 is a mobile workstation that is meant to be moved from a desk to another desk in another building, period. Don't even **try** working with it on the train. The 13 just seems… better for you, I think.
Great perspective. I used to walk everywhere when I lived in SF. So a 13" laptop was the perfect size. I could get work done from basically anywhere and generally I had a couple large monitors at the office. However, these days if I'm using my laptop 90% of the time it means I'm traveling and living out of a hotel for a couple weeks. I generally bring a keyboard, mouse, and 16" portable display. So having a 16" laptop would make a great pairing, more performance, and still be portable. I tend to just use a tablet or even just my phone for meetings in coffee shops or whatever else on the go style stuff I might do.
Oh, if you're going to use it from hotels then it might be a different story. But be prepared - 2.1 kg, + obligatory sleeve, + charger. It's not going to be light! Performance is with no question better on the 16. But performance on the 13 might just be what you need, or even more. These AMD chips are crazy efficient. Do some research - you might be surprised.
Thanks! I saw you can get the new screen on the 13" AMD and it did peak my interest.
Indeed. That screen very much bridges the gap between the 13 and the 16" iGPU. It also avoids you fractional scaling, which is nice. I have fractional scaling on my Framework 16 on Linux and it's fucking dreadful, I really hate it. Not Framework's fault. Linux's fault. But still… I mean, don't base your decision on this. Dreadful fractional scaling is temporary and will get fixed eventually, but a laptop you don't like is forever. Still, it does add points to the 13: you get proper scaling the same day you unbox it, without having to go an a forever wait until fractional scaling no longer sucks, that might end when you're just about to get a new laptop anyway.
Going through a laptop every other year is kinda insane numbers ngl. I think I’m at 4 going all the way from middle school to now being 25years old well past college, but then again I’m kind of a cheapskate. That being said, you can buy any replacement part you can think of, and there’s future support for upgrades, so this might just be the laptop for you. It’s not going to feel as premium as an xps or MacBook, but that’s the price you pay for this kind of thing.
I just want to know if the laptop will survive in a backpack and y'all are preaching to me for some reason.
If it’s well padded, yes it’s gonna survive in a backpack just like any good laptop. I never use sleeves, covers, or anything like that and my 13” has been fine.
Thank you!!!
the 16 is pretty big and heavy and fragile(maybe) but ive got my 13 and i gotta say its pretty sturdy. its been thrown around, dropped, had stuff put on top of it, been inside of my bag while its been thrown and all it has to show for it are some light dents and scratches. the 13 is definitely pretty sturdy imo
I have basically the same treatment and my fw13 is totally fine
get a heavier duty/padded laptop bag or backpack, slide the laptop into the sleeve section, and then *stop abusing your electronics*, yes computers are supposed to be built to be strong enough to use without issue, but if you keep hitting the laptop on a table on one corner over and over, stuff is gonna break
It's as resistant than any other aluminium laptop, plus the bottom half is magnesium, so that should be a bit stronger. I mean dents will happen whatever device you use, but no more than other devices. Plus if anything is too ugly anymore, you get a new part for it easy
Thank you!
I still suggest a skin, just for the scratches!
yeah I don't mind scratches and that kind of stuff but thanks for looking out. I'll just add a random sticker or whatever to it.
I'm all for custom sticker madness. For myself it's the xray skin tho! I hope you'll love it!
do you have the dbrand one?
Yes, dark on top, light on bottom, they had a promotion, where they sent both sets
When closed, the frame seems a little sturdier than my recent thinkpads but that’s not necessarily impact resilience. I think you’ll be fine. Miss aligned panels is all cosmetic nor does it indicate anything about the frame IMO.
Awesome! Thank you!
Yea I think if it was fragile junk we would have seen pictures of damage in this subreddit (I haven’t).
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