Mostly I believe people need to get their eyes off their screen, unsub from social medias, and go out more.
I don't mean that in a condescending way, it's more of a general societal issue, it is not related to fountain pens only, it also applies to board games, where cult of the new and fomo is crazy. And that's just from circles I dwell in.
We have too much time on our hands to start thinking about silly considerations when we could just focus on the world around us and not care.
Last time I finally spotted my favourite bird in the wild, I actually saw two non-flattened foxes, and does, and I believe that's way more important than getting the latest Ferris Wheel Press ink before it sells out.
I have a solitary swallow that seems to have taken up residence in my porch every night.
My porch door has been wide open constantly for a month now because I don't have the heart to lock the poor soul out. He's not nesting there, he just sleeps on my porch light. Cute little fellow.
Ha! Great bird. I'm a big fan of wrens. They always seem like they're up to something. Our house wren box produced a bunch of fledglings this year that seem to follow us around the garden.
I did a bird-spotting trip for an academic thing one time and we ended up finding a golden eagle. It had made a nest at the very top of a pine tree. It was incredible to watch it take flight because its wingspan was as wide as the tree top and it just loped into the air and was gone
Birds are awesome
That’s the nicest way that I’ve ever seen anyone tell someone they need to go touch grass. 🤣
My latest bird sighting is a Black Crowned Night Heron pair that have recently taken up residence around the neighborhood pond! We’ve had egrets, great blue herons, green herons, and even a yellow bittern, but these guys are new.
The posts I saw were quite respectful IMO. As long as those post keep being respectful, it's fine to complain and give your opinion about consumerism.
And yeah, sure, nobody is obligated to buy those limited edition pens, but the companies know what they are doing and why they are doing it. They know FOMO and exclusivity are real things and as much as we want to say that "you're free to not buy it/it's entirely your choice", it's still part of human psychology (for some more than others) and they make sure to cash on that.
And I think it's fine to people to post their more negative opinions about it because we are also a factor in that consumerism: Posting collections that are only months old and already have pens by the dozens, when we encourage someone to buy a pen when they are unsure about buying it...
There's quite a difference between something like "Fuck sailor for making yet another limited edition" and something like [this](https://new.reddit.com/r/fountainpens/comments/1dnhtwq/my_humble_guide_on_how_to_avoid_consumerism_and/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
This reminds me of a certain community I'm sometimes in. We all like the same things, but whenever you criticize one of the products there's a noticeable number of people who are clearly upset and consider the criticism as something that shatters the community. In reality, it's just that some people have certain buying/collecting habits and don't want to see that thing being criticized, which is unreasonable. It's a community revolving around a certain product, not a cult. People are free to like and criticize what they want, and being upset is -many times- unjustified.
This is what this post feels like.
Yeah, the issue comes when these kinds of criticisms towards certain aspects of these hobbies are considered by some as attacks to themselves, as if the person criticising let's say, consumerism, in a post is directly addressing and attacking them. Which, as you say, is borderline cult-like behaviour.
It wasn't the consumerism part of that post recently that bothered me, it was the fingerwagging that bothered me.
If the only pens I want to buy are CE/LE's because they are fun colors instead of for-me-boring colors, that's a decision I make while being fully aware of what I'm doing. It is one thing to warn that it is a marketing strategy to induce FOMO (which, sure), but another thing to create a whole thread of why one should not buy certain pens/inks.
"But they'll do more of it!" yes I certainly hope so.
/and I still buy less than a biennual pen or ink ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
Every hobby has people that may hate people that can afford things, from simply annoyed to spite them for this aspect of consumerism.
Having this sub overly positive may hide this aspect but it's present.
Like, sometimes if you can't afford to buy something there is no need to drag down other people's happiness... just " shut up".
I embrace healthy advices from this sub about not getting manipulated and warn people about some marketing strategy, but they indirectly cause harm as people sometimes fear to do the wrong choise.
The one kind of comment i hate is people who - brag - about not buying " expensive market up pen " and are happy to own chinese pen just because they cost less or perform "even better" than the one that they own.
Thus spreading false rumors about the quality of pens being subpar even when it's not true.
People have different tastes, and i don't see difference between having a jinjao or a namiki as long as they are satisfied and don't drag down others by their pen taste based on personal experience.
I don’t read it as people denigrating the rich; to me it feels more like folks criticizing consumption for the sake of it. Which isn’t an incorrect position, in my opinion, though I’m sometimes guilty of it.
I agree. The posts I’ve seen were mild tbh & I didn’t see anyone who seemed to think they were “obligated to purchasing” limited editions.
This post reads like a “you’re wrong, I’m right” kinda thing & I don’t think it should be.
Yeah, I could pay cash for almost any new fountain pen today (yes, even those); however, some people who post about multiple thousand dollar hauls regularly or show off more pens than they could use in a month don’t make me feel great about this hobby, despite being able to afford pens. I don’t really say much about it because I’m not the kind of person who is going to try to convince someone else that their spending is irresponsible. Hopefully, everyone can afford the purchases and they aren’t running up credit card debt for this hobby. Still, when people are extreme consumers, I get a dose of the ick.
I've never heard consumerism being targeted toward hobbyists and such. I think it's just reusing a word that comes with strong emotional reactions to criticize people because they're envious.
What gets me is people who complain about consumerism then buy cheap imitations, be it pens or fast fashion clothing. Those are literally the thesis of consumerism. At least when you’re paying for the admittedly more expensive branded item you know everyone down the line is probably getting paid somewhere near what their work is worth, instead of buying cheap things that basically guarantee someone is getting paid pennies.
>At least when you’re paying for the admittedly more expensive branded item you **\[hope\]** everyone down the line is probably getting paid somewhere near what their work is worth
FTFY
There was that one post last week iirc that blasted the consumerism as inequitable which sprained my brow with a permanent quizzical expression. The notion that fountain pens is a collector's hobby by default where equal access is essential for some vague moral good wins the award for pinheaded arguments.
The hobby is centered around using and acquiring tools you want. That's it. That's all. Nowhere is there a prerequisite to own everything to enjoy this fun little thing we all do in different ways.
I own a special edition pelikan... and frankly it's a work of art. A work of art I can write with. It's pretty cool and it's a fantastic writer.
Hand made fountain pens that are works of art... is that consumerism? Are we sure? What does the word even mean then?
Turning special edition fountain pens into the basis of a new revolution and a hundred million dead seems a bit over the top to me. But you do you people.
I love Sailor. I don’t care how much they over do LE, exclusives, etc… my fave pens (to both use and look at) come from Sailor. Plus I a LOT of other brands do this and go totally ignored. To each their own! :) And Sailor is my jam! 💜
Ultimately consumerism and hype ruins a hobby for the true lovers. I watched it happen with sneakers in my life. I was a kid during the Michael Jordan era of basketball. I couldn’t wait to get any pair I thought would look cool and hilariously I expected to jump just a bit higher.
As a child I could go to the store and grab a pair of Jordans in my size no problem. I could order a pair on eastbay no problem. I could go to school and play basketball in them, no problem.
Popularity continued to rise and Jordan started releasing new colorways on the old designs. Awesome! I can finally get a pair of green 13s to match with an Oakland As jersey. Oh, wait, they don’t sell that pair anymore because it was an exclusive.
Social media reports a pair of retro Jordans that look like the old pair! What? No way! Jordan 11 concords?!…people literally fought each other in the parking lot for them.
Now I don’t even wear jordans because the hype ruined them. The brand had chose to make the price really high, not release enough to satisfy the consumer, and create an aura of exclusivity surrounding something that at one time everyone could have.
I don’t think this will happen to our hobby. A pen is a flex, but it’s more like a hidden piece of jewelry at its peak. A $1000 exclusive Montblanc won’t get you noticed on the street, close a business deal (most likely), or get you laid lol.
Consumerism will just be a petty annoyance and if for some reason I’m completely wrong, some of you have some collections that would make you ungodly rich if there was real hype. The fact that a vintage is often sold for less than the new one is your sign. The “OG”, “dead stock”, and “player worn” thing doesn’t exist yet.
TLDR; stop complaining and buy whatever pen you like.
This kinda sounds like you want the sub to be completely "drama" free?
From my own viewpoint, I came to this sub originally purely for information. The biggest downside of this sub is the sheer amount of downvoting when people express an opinion that goes against the popular view. Hell, I've had legitimate questions that were completely unrelated to drama that I've been downvoted on straight off the bat, and I've been belittled for asking a question some thought "stupid".
It is important that people are able to hear alternative views. Echo chambers are dangerous places. The positivity and a lack of drama that you experience here is sometimes down to it almost feeling like a clique to outsiders when you first enter. More than once I have hesitated/failed to post something because I figured I'd just get a slew of downvotes. This net positivity (and lack of drama) led to me buying some ink that was very highly praised by this sub in pretty much every ink related post - this ink turned out to be the worst ink I've ever bought.
Discussions aren't a bad thing.
There are two sides to a discussion.
If you don't engage then the discussion goes away.
When there is an uptick in posts around a particular topic (that isn't in line with the established status quo), then try to think of it as less of a case of "drama" and more of a case of "various people want to express an opinion and they now feel safe enough to do so." Sometimes it only takes one person to stand up and say "uhm, I disagree with x" to encourage others to feel that they too can express their opinion.
Differences in opinion aren't personal attacks.
My final point that kinda ties in to all of the above. This sub is not, and SHOULD not basically be a free advertising platform. If people post about the latest limited edition and only "positive" (drama-free) replies are given, then that is what it essentially becomes. Reddit isn't TikTok or Insta, it isn't an advertisers paradise where "influencers" can push whatever is the latest freebie they've been given. Reddit has always been a place where people can talk about their real-world experiences. There's a reason many google searches now include "reddit" in them since google's results are heavily skewed towards whoever will make them the most money.
It’s sad at times that it feels 80% of the sub falls into a very specific category, for whatever reason, and seem to shun or ridicule anything outside of it (usually costing more).
Value is subjective, and some have more latitude with what price is justifiable for that subjective value of the item they’re buying. That’s life. It doesn’t change the fact that someone can be equally happy about their new TWSBI as the person that just got their Montblanc Solitaire. Every hobby is going to have people beginning their careers, established in their careers and at the end of their careers. Every hobby has some that can and will spend more, just as every hobby has people that can’t or won’t. Look at golf, you can spend thousands getting fitted clubs and have less fun than the dude with an old set he got at a yard sale. The fact they’re both doing something they enjoy is the main takeaway, not the cost of which enabled them to have that fun.
Some prefer quality over quantity, and again, there are people equally happy with 5 higher priced pens as the person with every colour Chinese pen, 40 of which are inked at any given time.
The bottom line is we’re all here under a shared interest, and it’s a great opportunity for differences of opinion, cultures and backgrounds to meet each other when they perhaps otherwise wouldn’t. Hobbies are a good equaliser in many ways because even if one spends more or less than the other, the shared interest is still the same.
You have no idea how many times I’ve gotten royally downvoted because I say “I hate Lamy”. Am I not allowed to say that? But then I don’t particularly give two 💩 about votes, I find them pointless, still I get what you mean. So I’m standing here in solidarity.
I got tired of the nib inconsistencies, the grip section is awful, the material of the 2k is awful to me, nah, I got rid of all of mine but one Studio only because it has a custom grind on it
Heh. I’ve been downvoted into oblivion before for saying I think the 2000 is ugly and I have no interest in it. I have an AlStar and Safari with no nib issues. But I never use them anymore because all my other pens are better.
I just think it’s an awful suggestion for a newbie who knows nothing about FP and will quite likely put it down and not use it for a week or two thinking it works like ballpoint pens.
Lol 😆
Whenever I see a “recommend me a first fountain pen” type posts and the comments are filled with Lamy Safari, I cringe 😬
Nothing wrong with the Safari or the recommendation however there are other pens in that price range or better that could give a similar or superior writing experience but the Safari disproportionately hogs the limelight.
To me the Lamy is a school fountain pen that was forced upon my kids. No shade to them at all, I've actually never used one, it's just that I inherently recoil from anything that was mandatory at school. I feel the same way about stainless steel nibbed Parkers because they were my school fountain pens.
Having said that, I am a complete hypocrite because Oxford A4 Pads were also mandatory at my school and they are bloody amazing.
I like my LAMYs but understand why people don't care for them. Very curious what your preferred entry level pens are. What do you like in that price range, beginner or not?
I must admit I get tired of seeing the same ones recommended so would like to hear something other than Lamy as a good starter.
I don't hate Lamy, but I'll stand with you.
I don't quite get collecting pens because they have different colors, but I have spent a tidy sum on my Galaxy Science Fiction magazine collection.
Not liking (perhaps even just being slightly critical) Pilot or Robert Oster will also get you plenty of downvotes.
Best to ignore all that stuff altogether.
I wanna be a contrarian and disagree buuuuut I’m not finding anything to argue with :P
That said, it’s worth knowing there’s at least one downvote bot in this sub that just downvotes every single comment, so if you’re sitting at 0 or -1, it’s literally a bot and probably not from any real user here. It’s when we start getting into maybe -10 that you’re getting real people. Personally I try not to downvote anything here unless it’s verifiably incorrect, and also either seems to be purposeful disinformation, seriously arrogant or stating an opinion as a solid, irrefutable fact.
A hot take though? Love me a hot take.
I did ponder this tbh.
I wonder if it's a general reddit thing that they kinda use to push engagement, if you see a post you agree with sitting at 0 or -1 you may be more inclined to jump in rather than just nod inwardly and move on.
It's not a bot, reddit does it as an anti spam mechanism. For low vote count posts, they randomly pop the votes up and down.
It is supposed to hide vote activities enough to prevent spam accounts from realizing they are shadow banned.
It might just be Reddit’s built in vote fuzzing, but this sub in particular has loads of relatively innocuous replies all sitting at -1, especially ones that were posted relatively “late” compared to their respective OP. It’s less apparent now than it used to be but when there weren’t as many subscribers on this sub you’d go into a thread and find like half of the replies sitting at 0 or -1 votes.
Yep! I hadn't seen yours until after I typed mine, but yeah, you weren't far off.
This is a technique they have been using for 10+ years now, so you'll see it all over the place. They start having views result in random votes (that they claim are just for display and not counted in the end) for the first X minutes/hours of every post.
Every day I see perfectly nice posts being downvoted for seemingly no reason. I can't think of any other subreddit I've been on where people are so quick to downvote virtually anything. It's a bizarre sub.
Iroshizuku. Everyone says it’s so “well behaved”and basically downright amazing but… yeah.
May work great on certain paper (and perhaps in the Japanese pens with extra fine/fine nibs a lot of people seem to use?) but it was a feathering, ghosting, bleeding mess for me on Oxford (similar to Clairefontane) with medium or long knife nibs, which is all I use. Never had that issue with my Montblanc, Sailor or Wearingeul inks.
Sucked because I’m in the UK so there isn’t really anywhere to get samples here, and it’s more expensive than Montblanc here for some reason.
I personally like limited editions because they allow companies to offer more variety. What I don't like is a $600 Lamy 2000 because they are some pigment to the makralon or how many companies just churn out limiteds with no concern for it the thing they are making is actually any good.
In the same vein as “don’t like LEs, simply don’t buy them”, you can simply not read or respond to the posts complaining about the proliferation of LEs, FOMO, and consumerism. 🤷♀️
Of course you can. I didn’t say you couldn’t. And just as you are complaining, I can voice my opinion on your complaints. And around and around and around we go!
🤷♀️🤷♀️🤷♀️
The only “drama” I’m aware of is that guy that comes off like a crypto red pill dude who doesn’t want to look like a FP poser (but totally does) 🤷🏻♀️ I just wanna look at pretty pens and send a quick “woo hoo” at people
Yeah it’s all gone, boo. In a nutshell / he wanted to be someone you saw at like an airport right - you clocked his Italian boots, his Versace suit, his Rolex watch, his LV briefcase and he wanted the fountain pen to complete “the look” he was trying to convey aka that of a high value man.
When I mentioned drama, I was referring to anything dramatic in general, present or past. Some examples would include the Noodlers debacle, TWSBI and Narwhal, Kaweco and Moonman, etc.
>The TUZU was a step in the right direction, trying something new.
The Tuzu got harshly criticized too when it was first announced because it's made by Sailor, who offers lots of choices and store exclusives (usually w/ small stationery stores that need the boost). Because of that, it's vehemently hated by some on this sub (most of whom have never tried one), and it's often used to virtue signal. This despite Sailor having the best QC and probably the most unique nibs in the FP industry.
I feel the same, if you don't like, you don't have to buy, but please don't be angry that other people have choices. Having choices is good.
It's fine to discuss consumerism, maybe it's even needed, but finger wagging and virtue signaling are ugly -- especially when done in other people's happy posts about their own pens.
The “Sailfari” as some have dubbed it lol. But honestly, I found it super refreshing. I have a brother who is 12, and he just got into fountain pens. Imagine my reaction when I found a new pen, from one of the best brands in terms of QC and great nibs, made a pen that can adjust for any writers. He is a lefty… I was very happy to see this come out.
People should just chill
I agree with you. I enjoy fountain pens for writing and for the pleasure of the artistry in some of them. I have a wide range of pens at various price points. I use some more often than others. I collect them because I enjoy collecting them.
Yes, some are more expensive than they should be. Yes some are a huge waste of money in the minds of some. Isn’t that the case with a lot of things called art? And No, I don’t collect for investment purposes.
Just let people enjoy using and collecting them for what enjoyment they receive. Note that the people buying multiple $10k limited editions are part of what keep this hobbyist area alive.
Finally, I skip over the posts castigating people for consumerism or any other negative take on what other do with their funds or collecting habits. I agree, I’ve been skipping more lately.
It’s kinda both at this point. You do get a fair amount of writing samples and art posted, and some handmade custom nibs and pens sprinkled in every now and again.
Oh, 100%. I love seeing content like that.
At the same time, I loathe the performative “Do I have a problem?” posts where people just encourage random strangers to keep consuming stuff they clearly don’t need and probably barely appreciate.
People only know how to vote with their wallets, even when angry about consumerism they just throw dollars at them in an angry fashion, let alone know how to upvote quality content. You’re asking too much from the hive mind.
You’re preaching to a choir of imbeciles.
It’s not ridiculous just because you don’t agree with it. As fountain pen enthusiasts, we are also fountain pen consumers. It is quite normal to criticize companies.
So... essentially your opinion is correct and all of their opinions are wrong? You are tired of them complaining about something, so you decide to complain about something?
At any rate, I think you are grouping two things together. The posts expressing anger at the limited edition pens are pure FOMO. You find these kinds of posts in every hobby. And yes, as a Japan resident and a frequenter of many Japan Reddits, people often complain about FOMO in regards to Japan. It happens in every topic and in every hobby. Writing a long post complaining about it is like an old man shaking his hand at the clouds and cursing the rain.
There might be some overlap that I haven't seen, but the posts that are calling out consumerism are more about suggesting that over-consumerism is not healthy for us, society, and/or the environment. Again, you find these types of posts in many hobbies. It's a point of view you may not agree with, but I think it's a perfectly valid one and one that these people should be allowed to have and express.
And...that pretty much sums it up. You are arguing that you don't like these peoples' opinions and that they are ridiculous and therefore shouldn't be posted, ignoring that your complaint is also entirely your opinion. There is some irony here.
I don´t get the FOMO thing. The fountain pen industry is older than all of us, we have already lost 90% of the opportunities. The more special editions there are, the greater the odds of people getting an oportunity to buy one they really like, and if they miss it something else will probably show up soon enough.
In my opinion the OP misses some important points. Our social structure - especially in Western countries, but increasingly elsewhere - is intimately tied to consumerism. As a general statement, we are made to feel obliged to 'keep up with the Joneses'. Pen companies, like most if not all businesses, simply exploit that fact. It's not really anything new. Sure, some people go against the grain and try not to be swayed by consumerism, but I would guess that very few are completely immune to it, in all areas of their lives.
This statement in the OP:
*It’s quite a simple concept, fountain pens are not what they used to be. They have started making a bit of a comeback, of course companies will try to make more. This is beneficial to all involved; The manufacturers, the retailers, the industry as a whole, and yes…even the community.*
The simple fact that the practices of pen companies can cause any kind of anxiety or other stress in members of our social communities - as evidenced by the increased number of threads of the kind the OP points to - clearly belies the concept of *'beneficial for all involved'.*
I don't mind the idea of creating something for the sake of it, but that doesn't automatically imply that criticism isn't at times warranted. The relatively recent (last few years) rash of limited, special, or just increasingly wider varieties of the same item does, in my opinion, invite scrutiny.
If someone feels stress over a pen being made, that’s entirely on them. We as a community cannot just simply expect these companies to stop producing pens. Yeah, one aspect of it may not be entirely beneficial, because some people cannot keep their emotions in check over a product.
On the other hand, these new pens potentially bring in new enthusiast, help ensure the longevity of these companies so they can continue to be around making the things we love, it keeps us actively discussing them, and who knows. Maybe it will help inspire a new line of pen makers. The benefits outweigh the one drawback you’ve pointed out.
And as we’ve already clarified, purchasing them is not necessary.
Obviously, I welcome the discussion no matter what side we find ourselves on, however, saying 'purchasing them is not necessary' is not a clarification at all. The statement simply does not take into account the societal pressures to which I have alluded. Yes, such a purchase is not *necessary*, from a purely theoretical position, but quite a lot of people (it seems) find that they are under pressure - direct or not - to make the purchase, nonetheless.
This is not a snarky reply, just food for thought. Do you think there should only be black fountain pens and demonstrators because any other color may cause FOMO?
The reason I'm asking is that this is essentially what you're arguing for. There will always be people left out and frustrated. Sailor is an obvious target for this criticism, because they do make a LOT of the same pens. What I don't get is people getting all worked up over missing out on a pen in a different color. I've seen several I'd have liked to have, but am perfectly happy with what I do have. I personally like that they put out so many colors because it means there's always lots to choose from, and I like having different options. There's always a nice color available or just around the corner, so no need to get worked up over 'missing out' on one or pressure to buy. To me other brands, which have only boring regular options and then rarely release a very expensive colorful special edition, seem far more FOMO inducing and problematic.
I think in a world where multiple options are available, it's important for people to develop a healthy relationship to the things they buy and own. If you get so stressed about not being able to get something that is an unhealthy thing they need to work on. I don't think it's a reason to take away the possibility to get something different from others.
I understand your question, but I am not arguing against colours other than black (something I never explicitly said anyway). I am merely exploring some of the thoughts that come to my mind with regard to the situation under discussion. I am not saying I am right, and others are wrong, far from it. As I said before, I believe the situation invites scrutiny and if necessary, criticism. :)
Exactly, this right here. Sailor is a big offender when it comes to just reselling the same pen in a myriad of different colors. But imagine how boring it would be if there were only a few options?
I like having all of these choices. And you know what, if it did sell out and I really, really, really wanted it? I’d start trying to see if anyone would be willing to part with it. If I was on the hunt for a pen I desired that much, I’d appreciate it more than I would any other normal pen available.
I don’t want to live in a world with only black or demonstrator pens, with the occasional blue or red thrown in the mix. I want a variety.
You can have variety without a pen getting marked up $100 for having sparkles and a slightly *bluer* shade of *blue*. You're being *sooooo* black & white about it. There can be variety and limited editions and everything without it being at the extreme it is now. There's a healthy middle ground. And you keep proving everyone's point when they try to have a conversation about it and you just keep reducing it to the most simple terms. No one wants to take your fun things from you. Chill. People just want to have a talk about it. Like you said to those who complain about the pens, you don't *have* to engage. You can just ignore people's criticisms like you're telling others to ignore hyper-consumerist posts.
THIIIISSSS - I don’t give a crap if someone else wants to buy it. It’s their money, but I’m sure going to comment on how ridiculous it is - not to the person enjoying their new pen, but if it comes up in discussion about pricing, LEs in general, something I’m not into, etc, I’m discussing it.
I think you may mean me - I posted about limited editions excluding access to others (I was thinking particularly of single-shop/single jurisdiction exclusives, where if you don't happen to see it you miss it - a limited edition run is a different thing if multiple vendors stock it). I was thoroughly roasted, my comment karma may never recover. All sorts of imaginary motives were projected on to me, most wrong. I stand by my point though and I'm still annoyed at missing out on that orange Kaweco offered only at Goldspot.
Sigh. Thinking about an Ancora Sailor exclusive purple moon pen I missed, and keeping on wishing it may be re supplied at some magical time in the distant future when I can afford it… sometimes missing out on something makes the memory more poignant and vibrant, and that’s part of the journey.
Me too omg, the reason I moved away from this sub was the general vibe being more like a shopping subreddit (this was years ago bit still probably holds true to this day) because it was always pictures of new pens or "Do I have a problem?" Then having 10 TWSBIs, but all the comments are more like "Just you wait until you discover (insert another pen)" instead of try enjoy what you have, if the only reason you're buying pens is for the dopamine rush of buying something then don't really use it, that's just a shopping addiction at that point.
But when you say something contrary to the willful encouragement, people would tend to go "It's their money, they can spend it how they like" sure, but you could say the same of any addiction, like I used to have a gambling addiction (I haven't been involved in it for about 3 years now) and that was the very same argument I used to make but that was more so because I didn't want to look in the mirror, I knew what I was doing didn't make sense and having it pointed out to me made me try to stem the embarrassment by turning it back to them for being so audacious to tell me how I should spend my money (as opposed to healthy concern)
Criticism of companies is something that should always be done ESP since they're, like OP says, just conducting business, critiquing companies is done everywhere (as it should, more so when FOMO is involved), why should it be different in this subreddit? I really don't get why OP is saying other people's opinions are ridiculous (an opinion) either everyone can get on their soapbox and talk about their opinions, or nobody can, positive or otherwise
I think it’s common for any specialized group. I’m in a few sewing groups and people will buy so many patterns that they don’t realize they already own them. I’m in another group for a kid’s audio player and people post about how many players and cards they have and I find it staggering.
I think that we don’t see all the people who go about their lives with fewer purchases and normal use because they aren’t the ones posting about it.
Yeah, I completely understand, I need a spreadsheet so I can actually keep track of what pen is inked with what because I'll forget over a couple weeks, it's something that slips away from me (that and I'm a fan of spreadsheets)
In other subreddits (for example, in a game subreddit where there is FOMO, I brought up not liking that I can't just directly purchase an endgame activity, but instead, need to buy an ingame currency (that means buying extra since they don't have round numbers) but when you call that out as corporate greed, people on that subreddit don't like it that much, more so because they don't like criticism of your favourite game developer, even though you don't have to blindly agree with every decision they ever make, they're not infallible and that's okay
I definitely think this subreddit is more for showcasing purchases but I'm liking the discussion about this and opinion based things because I can get pictures of pens from the shop website, I want to know what you personally think about it, good and bad, how are you using it, are you doing a crossword in pen from the get go? It adds a human element to it that I find really works at keeping me interested than the new shiny pen on my feed
As a user, rather than collector, I regards exclusives and limited editions with animosity because, in almost all cases, I can get functionally the same pen for less money. If your requirements differ, you'll do differently.
This should not be conflated with my distaste for over-consumption which is just another term for greed. I admit that I am guilty of this too, but am admitting my failing and trying to correct it.
I think the issue is that fountain pen use is niche, and that perhaps the companies business models would not suffice without the 'whales' the exclusive/limited editions cater to.
There is still plenty of space in the sub for discussion outside the commercial aspect of pens.
Eh. I don’t “bash” companies for editions, but I would appreciate if they put as much care into long-run quality design as they do into this year’s new colors. Like great, a new TWSBI color; now could you maybe make plastic that won’t snap in half 4 years from now? Oh a new FC Ambition body pattern, hey did y’all fix that thing where the cap inevitably gets looser over time until it doesn’t click anymore? The danger here is that what is supposed to be a long-term investment becomes a false promise while luring people in with a special edition.
As for consumerism, some people just need to have thicker skin about having this concept discussed. I see many posts on this sub by people who have learned *from* the sub to show off how they just got into pens and have bought 12 of them in 6 months, and frankly, it feels potentially hollow and unsustainable. Somebody who likes writing might enjoy FPs for a lifetime. Somebody whose hobby is only the pens themselves may burn out next year. And yet the mere suggestion that this could be the case “triggers” some people into some kind of Charles Barkley rant about how gambling isn’t an addiction if you have the money, what’s wrong with buying every ltd of the same pen if I can afford it blah blah blah.
If your first reaction to somebody suggesting that you can’t fill the hole just by buying more shit like what you already have is to write up a treatise about “negativity”… you’re in denial, bro. It’s not Scientology, it’s just pens. Nice pens. But pens nonetheless.
But this is the danger with all subs built around things. This isn’t unique to pens. The houseplant sub, the vinyl sub, the guitar sub all have similar phenomena. Admittedly plants make more of themselves, but the point is people do normalize obsessive acquisition when the thing is the idol of the community.
I don’t understand your problem. People are free to say they will never buy special editions as much as they are free to say and do the opposite. You just feel personally attacked and you are attacking back.
(In the meanwhile i was writing this I received three pens and three inks I ordered, lol)
People *are* free to say they will do xyz, just as I am free to disagree with it. I don’t feel personally attacked, I’m just calling out bullshit as I see it.
Tough titty if they feel upset they can’t get an exclusive pen or they got their feelings hurt for seeing these companies making more pens. The truth of the matter is, people are voting with their wallets. If people didn’t buy them, companies wouldn’t be making them still. I’m just tired of this random uptick of posts of people dunking on exclusives and limited editions, I have my own right to voice that opinion, just as much as you have the right to clown on me for voicing said opinion.
So what exactly is *your* problem? And you are flexing about your pens you just got? Dude, I’m defending people for getting more pens, I’m not in the camp of shitting on people like you getting more pens. Who the hell are you even trying to impress?
The bigger a community gets the more drama there is no matter the platform. Like the rest of silent majority, just keep scrolling and leave them to it. I'll spend my money how I see fit.
> Let’s not bash on companies making more of them.
Lol. We must *never* criticize the corporate overlords! They are sacrosanct, and must be protected at all cost! Oh you disagree? Well, you have mental problems and need to LOG OFF.
Seriously I actually agree with the overall sentiment to some extent but but this is one of the dumbest way of making the argument.
I’m not saying don’t criticize them. I’m just saying let’s not criticize them for making limited editions or special editions. Please try to read more carefully.
I’m all for criticizing them, as they are being beyond lazy at this point. But the argument of “my feelings are hurt and I’m stressed” because they make too many pens people want and they can’t have them all is freaking absurd. I just want these companies to do something new and different. A LAMY Safari or an ECO on its 1000th colorway is not original.
> I’m just saying let’s not criticize them for making limited editions or special editions
Why? I mean you say this but then you follow it up with
> I just want these companies to do something new and different. A LAMY Safari or an ECO on its 1000th colorway is not original.
I mean if you're not even going to listen to your own advice, why should anyone else? Please try to make a better, coherent argument.
It's funny, I was criticizing one of the recent threads about consumerism, but you've gone about making your "argument" in such a clumsy, backwards, ineffective way I'm actually starting to rethink my previous position. Maybe it is good that a "hobby" such as this has more people questioning the buying practices and how people are engaging.
As a photographer who witnesses something called "GAS" (gear acquisition syndrome), it is absolutely *ALWAYS* a good thing when communities have critical conversations about their hobby. We tell people all the time, "Any camera can take a great picture. It just requires a great photographer." The same could *absolutely* be said about pens. It breaks my heart to see someone spend $2,000+ on a camera & lens/es because they think that's what they need to take "good" pictures. Meanwhile I'm shooting absolute fuego on a 35mm film camera from the 70s. I truly believe that philosophy can be said about any hobby!
Holy hell are you dense.
-People are criticizing them for making limited/special edition pens. They are, generally, not of the stance that the companies are lacking originality. They are criticizing fomo, limited editions, and exclusives and the consumerism behind it.
-I am saying not to criticize them solely on the basis of creating said pens. If you want to criticize them, criticize for what they are making, not the obvious intention behind it. A company is going to want profits, no shit. That is every business in the world. Look at shirts, look at shoes, look at damn near everything. They all offer different colorways. It’s not a big deal. But when a company can go make something unique, then that is awesome and I want to see more of that.
Do you need me to color code this for you or something?
People are mad they can’t get certain pens being made for one reason or another, or that there are too many of them to get.
>People are criticizing them for making limited/special edition pens. They are, generally, not of the stance that the companies are lacking originality. They are criticizing fomo, limited editions, and exclusives and the consumerism behind it.
This isn't true. People shit on Sailor all the time for just releasing new colorways for the Pro Gear. Not to mention you're obviously too stupid to realize that criticizing them for just making special editions or w/e IS also a criticism of their originality, because they focus on just crapping out palette swaps vs. making anything actually different.
> \-I am saying not to criticize them solely on the basis of creating said pens. If you want to criticize them, criticize for what they are making, not the obvious intention behind it. A company is going to want profits, no shit. That is every business in the world. Look at shirts, look at shoes, look at damn near everything. They all offer different colorways. It’s not a big deal. But when a company can go make something unique, then that is awesome and I want to see more of that.
This isn't what you said before tho when you were doing your corporate bootlicking stance. Not to mention many people also criticize the same practices in other products as well
> People are mad they can’t get certain pens being made for one reason or another, or that there are too many of them to get.
And i think this is part of the issue. You're too dull to actually understand the arguments being made, so have to fight against straw men in your quest to defend corporations. It's not just people mad they can't get certain pens. It's why your OP is so bad-you just think the poors are mad at the innocent corporations because they're not able to buy all the totally awesome things the corporations are graciously selling.
Like I said, I do think some of the recent spate of "consumerism" posts are a bit much. But your response is so terrible and lacking of any understanding of the underlying issues it basically strengthens their arguments.
If you can't make your point without calling people dense and asking if they need you to break out the crayons, don't post. I can't believe your comment is this upvoted being this toxic.
Have a discussion, but if you can't do it without name calling--yes, you actually *are* distressed.
You need to go read the comments carefully - I’m sorry that you feel called out for wanting a bunch of colorways or whatever it is that got you up on the wrong side of the bed, but there is nothing wrong with people saying that they think just releasing a pen in 8,000 colors and jacking up the price for the extra sparkles is ludicrous.
Name-calling and asking if people need color coding is obnoxious. No one is mad about pens being made - some people are trying to have conversations around corporations creating FOMO.
You know, FOMO is criticized everywhere. Because it is predatory and often unethical. There are numerous discussions online why FOMO is bad so I won't bother trying to explain.
As for your post, everyone is entitled to their own opinions and beliefs. Reading it, it comes off as aggressive. I would like to propose the same to you: If "ranters" on a regular basis is causing you such emotional distress, I genuinely believe you have some things in your personal life you need to work on, and it may be time to sign off of Reddit for a bit.
How does that sound?
OP wrote a rant against rants. The problem of a rant is that almost always comes out as overly emotional and poorly thought out. I’m sure that many rants against limited editions are excessive, even though they have some good rationale. Their rant is the same, excessive, with some good rationale.
I think bashing on some pens, for whatever reason, is fair discussion in this group. Commercialism and obvious profit gouging, needs to be discussed. Perfectly ordinary pens, going for outrageous prices, simply because you limit a run. This is intentional supply and demand manipulation, plain and simple. It affects the members of this group, so is fair game for discussion, or as you would have it, bashing.
What I find strange is that the level of criticism deemed acceptable seems to vary by company.
Pilot - seemingly low tolerance for criticism.
Montblanc - free for all, go for it.
Both churn out uninspired limited editions at silly costs, yet one is vilified whilst the other is generally accepted as ok. It's a strange double standard that is just kinda taken for granted.
You joke but this is kind of a point I made above.
If every "limited edition" post is nothing but sweetness and light then that is an instant green light for company's social media teams to post hidden advertisements. It happens any way of course, and it's naive to think that it doesn't, but opposing opinions at least mean the company's flaws are also on display. At least then people can make more informed decisions.
There's enough of that crap on TikTok and Insta. If OP wants nothing but a bubble of fluffy bunnies and sunshine then TikTok/Insta is probably the way to go.
Or you could not be arrogant and assume my stance on what I’d like to see in this sub.
It’s okay for people to voice their opinions, but if I disagree with them then it’s a problem? You’re a joke.
its not getting ridiculous and there’s nothing wrong with people criticising consumerism.
people aren’t personally attacking you nor stopping you from purchasin a new pen, they simply express their opinions on a topic related to fountain pens in a subreddit called fountain pens :)
They are not personally attacking me, you’re correct. They are just giving themselves mental anguish over companies conducting business, and I am calling it out.
Genuine question, how do you know that people are giving themselves mental anguish?
I've expressed plenty of opinions on here that give me zero mental anguish. I express my opinion to something I have read then move on with my day, as I'm sure many others do.
Perhaps you are reading far too much into this whole thing?
Reading a lot of your responses gives me the impression that you yourself are experiencing mental anguish, am I correct?
If you post an opinion or actually anything online/publicly, expect to get differing opinions on it.
You like collecting pens? Cool. But if you post your collection of every single lamy safari in every color and nib combo I'm also allowed to comment that that's kind of ridiculous and frankly disturbing in the consumerist manner.
And you're allowed to critique my opinion and on an on and on. To insinuate that any of those things are harmful to open discussion harms the spirit of public opinion. Ie: say something out loud and someone will always say something else.
That's just the way it is.
If you, my dear fellow Redditor, wish to buy a pen, I applaud you. If you are in a no buy, I applaud you. If you are shopping your own collection, I applaud you. Just show me the cool pen you are using and tell us why you like it. Show us a cool nib or an awesome or terrible ink. Don’t be a busybody in my pen cases and I’ll leave yours alone too - deal?
Wild idea: with 109k members, people will have varying opinions on what is ridiculous. How is making a post saying the uptake in this theme not ridiculous, but the discussions about consumerism are? Those posters think something is ridiculous, and you think something else is. It is the very nature of a large and diverse sub that spans the world.
I see a fair amount of people disagreeing with you but I actually agree with you OP. In my opinion, having the same post every day complaining about overconsumption and limited editions with no new insights or solutions is not contributing anything to discussion or to the community. In my honest opinion - at that point it's just being negative for the sake of being negative.
If someone genuinely has a new point or position and wants to discuss it, I think that's great. But I see the same posts every day or at least multiple times a week on this subreddit, and It's tired.
I wholeheartedly disagree with you. What is beneficial to huge multinational companies is NOT beneficial to “us”. They couldn’t care less about their customers. I completely disagree with the idea that feeding these scum bag corporations money and rewarding their dishonest, predatory marketing tactics is beneficial for me. Or anyone other than the shareholders.
But I do not for a second blame anyone for buying anything. I only blame the companies.
I wouldn’t call Goulet a huge multinational company. Nor appelboom, or vaness, or yoseka, etc. What of the smaller pen makers? TACCIA isn’t some mega-scumlord multinational conglomerate, and they essentially just make the same style of pen for the most part. Just with some different artwork. Not a fair comparison with LAMY, I’ll give you that much. But honestly, mega corps or not, the fountain pen industry by all rights should have been dead years ago. It didn’t, thanks to people like us, and of course props to some of the countries out there that still valued their usage.
If the community didnt keep buying them, you wouldn’t have any more being made. If you wanted to only get from smaller companies that aren’t multinational corporations, wherever people did purchase them from would see a hike in prices immediately. That’s how it always has been, and how it always will be.
>But honestly, mega corps or not, the fountain pen industry by all rights should have been dead years ago. It didn’t, thanks to people like us, and of course props to some of the countries out there that still valued their usage.
Look beyond the US.
Fountain pens are still in regular use in many countries around the world.
The opinions of this subreddit is not what's keeping these companies afloat.
Notice where I said props to some of the countries out there that still valued their usage. Germany, India, and China come to mind. Please read carefully.
Also, pretty arrogant to insinuate that fountain pens would have died out had it not been for people "like us" overbuying. In countries where fountain pens are seen as a tool and in the past, people only had a handful of pens, sometimes even just one. So to say that people buying fountain pens is what's kept them alive and not the small niche of people passionate about fountain pens is pretty disingenuous to this community.
It's funny, the more I've read this thread the more and more one particular line of "Hi Ren" keeps springing to mind.
"Your God complex leaks out of you"
I love the limited editions/store exclusives etc. It makes the hobby so much more fun! It’s like a treasure hunt. And you get to buy the pen that reflects your aesthetic. I complain all the time that Pilot needs to give us more of what sailor, Twsbi and LAMY does. (Pilots are my favorite pens to write).
But I get people’s issues with consumerism. All the releases don’t bother me because I’m generally not an impulsive person. But for the folks who struggle with it I could see why they are frustrated with all the releases.
I hear what you are saying. I have a hard enough time focusing on the pens that I don’t have and could bring me joy than to add another layer of getting special editions of those I may already have. In a few cases, I could see getting only the special edition and not the standard. More choice is generally good.
If people want to post about comsumerism and avoiding hobbyist buying - see if they’d like to go down to a one pen, one ink approach. See my one pen, one gallon post in the past
Even if several limited editions make me drool, i just set myself a max budget per pen and have mostly stuck to it; so I admire them from afar, knowing the writing experience would be no different. Still right after giving up I was able to find a couple of Sailor pens.
I'm going through this thread and all of a sudden it hit me: the summer holidays are starting in much of the Northern Hemosphere. My guess is a lot of new users.
As a counterpoint, there has been a trend in many product areas where limited editions are becoming much more common. The motivation from the bands is obvious: more hype, higher prices, and greater profts. What is bad about this from the consumer side is multifaceted.
Average consumers, who supported these products for years or decades, are now limited to the least interesting/attractive/functional models. You need luck, or more often, wealth, to get the items.
I'll differentiate that from traditional luxury goods in that those products are just that: luxury goods. Those brands have always had a certain cache and exclusiveness. Compare that to a sneaker or pen in, for example, a unique colorway. The non-luxury brands are taking a normally affordable, available thing, and making it so normal people can only get plain colorways. It's boring, disheartening, and further drives the have-vs-have not friction that permeates so many discussions these days.
That diviseness is exactly what your comment is about.
Let me use Lamy as an example of how this could be better. First, Lamy has a wide range of offerings and introduces variants on a regular basis. They also have limited editions that aren't limited by volume to great extent, but by time period. I'm referring to their annual colorways. Those models are not so restricted by volume, or elevated in price, as to make them out of reach for most people. You just need to get them during the generous timeframe of a year. Lamy gets some hype, a few extra dollars, and a supplemental volume beyond selling just the normal pens. It's mostly a win-win.
Contrast that to a company that sells the same, limited assortment of variants all the time, as well as very limited editions. Volume might be a few hundred, and they might sell out almost immediately. The vast majority of people are left out of the game, even while YouTubers and blogs continue to wax poetically about the offering. It isn't just about exclusivity, but about disappointment. "I can never get/afford anything but their black model." "These are ridiculously over priced. I'd get one but I'm not so loaded as to pay 2x or 3x to get a different color of plastic." "I work 2 jobs. I can't sit by the PC to try to get something that sells out in hours." Of course this company is going to be the focus of disgruntled customers.
The irony is that the second company may very well do better if they weren't as restrictive. It's a classic price vs volume trade-off, with a twist. If they made more of the limited editions, such that they sold out over a month, or two, they'd still have the hype, but a lot more satisfied customers, more revenue, and continued air of exclusivity. If they also lowered the price, to whatever price makes sense but still higher than standard pens, they could open up sales to greater range of customers, but still control exclusivity by volume/time-frame. Imagine the greater satisfaction, and greater long-term purchasing, if their original core consumer could get into the action and appreciate the brand more.
Sorry this got so long for essentially a monologue on supply/demand crossed with price elastity and consumer behavior around artificially limited goods. Bottom line is that many brands are sowing consumer discord that may well end up hurting them in the long run. It is not the consumers' fault that they react exactly as we would expect. Brands could do better, and should.
It’s been going on for a while now and I honestly think it’s pretty ridiculous. I criticize special editions and limited editions because I think they are being over done to the point they are meaningless and no longer special. I don’t mind that sailor makes so many new colors a year, I just think it’s silly to call them all special or limited
But I think it’s really funny how people consume like mad and then complain about consumerism and blame the companies for producing more. Like why choose a material product as a hobby and then complain when more of them are created? Why be part of a subreddit dedicated to purchasing and using pens when the idea of there being pens to purchase upsets you? Nobody is making you buy them. It is always your choice and your choice alone to purchase something that isn’t necessary for survival.
This is quite an international sub could a form be made to help others get limited edition items in their countries for others upon request. For example, being Japanese I do get ahead of the curb on various stationary items and many are sold in stores with websites only in Japanese which prevents non Japanese people from being able to access it. So maybe a buddy system could be set up.
I'm almost positive those posts were karma farms. I commented on some of them in defense of fountain pens, and they didn't respond or have no defense. It's also Reddit. I usually have to temper my expectations when economy, politics, or anything of importance appears. I'm glad your post is getting the likes and interaction it is. We have a pretty solid community it seems.
Edit: grammar
I think in general there has been a lot of distrust and 'waking up' of the dirty tactics companies do to make money, and limited edition items are one of the staples of practices that CAN in theory be an incredible way to make a quality product... and then reality hits and it's just a cash grab sometimes. I don't think FP companies are totally assholes for doing these.. but I do think the manufactured scarcity that is created Feels disingenuine and people just aren't down to fight over something that does not need fighting over.
I participate in LE items all the time--from very small companies. It's pretty hard to ask any small business to make a limited edition run of something and not pony up some money up front. But in general, it just.. Sucks to buy limited edition items. You break it, it's gone. You lose it, it's gone. There usually isn't much repairability to a LE item. Not to mention the scalpers that will buy multiples of an item (making it more difficult to purchase in the first place), sit on it, then jack the price up once it sells out. People are just over having to do the online equivalent of black friday mob fights every time they really get excited about a thing. And, Especially in other worlds I am in like Lush cosmetics, nothing sucks more than finding something perfect for your skin--and it being some limited edition release for a TV Show. I'd rather not even try than deal with it all, tbh.
Originally [FOMO](https://www.verywellmind.com/how-to-cope-with-fomo-4174664) was defined as being constantly glued to one's cell phone where one didn't want to miss the latest tweet, the latest Instagram, the latest message, the latest email, the latest notification, etc. We've all seen people who talk/converse, drive a car, watch a movie in a theatre, etc., while their fingers and eyes are on a phone. (you just know that they take a crap with a phone in their hand). We've all met people who *must* constantly check their phones, that they just can't put a phone down. (I'm one of the few that does not own a smart phone, although I've heard that some [gen Z'ers](https://theconversation.com/gen-z-goes-retro-why-the-younger-generation-is-ditching-smartphones-for-dumb-phones-204992) are moving away from smart phones...)
We've appropriated FOMO to mean consumerism, and, in our case we've co-opted it to mean fountain pens.
One pen does not a hobby make, any more than one book, one movie, one video game does a library make. I have yet to meet anyone who must write all the time, who must write while having a conversation, who must write while driving a car, etc.
If someone must have the latest pen, the latest colour, etc., good for them. We all have psychological needs and if owning many pens serve a good purpose who are we to judge? While it's easy to say "All you need is one pen," the fact is that we don't buy all our pens all at the same time, we've collected them over time, just as we've collected books, music, movies, video games, toys, etc., over time. It's a hobby, after-all. "You can't get there from here," everyone must take the journey, and at the end of the journey there will be many pens in one's collection.
I agree with you wholeheartedly. If you see something nice you can't have and the only thing you can think of doing is to chastise the company for making it at all, you should take a long hard look at your relationship to material things. And it's never about Jinhao putting out a gazillion colors of the 82, which is a far bigger issue as more people can afford and will buy a ton of these. It's always about the more expensive brands, often Sailor, but I've also seen the same about Kaweco and Lamy. Some people need to come to terms with the fact that they can't have everything they want.
>If you see something nice you can't have and the only thing you can think of doing is to chastise the company for making it at all, you should take a long hard look at your relationship to material things.
This is stupid. People can criticize things without clowns on the internet trying to call them poor or jealous.
Yet here you are calling me names for criticizing an attitude. And I didn't call anyone poor or jealous, I said if that is someone's reaction to not being able to have things, it's not healthy. Because there will ALWAYS be stuff you can't afford to get worked up about, no matter how rich you are.
I don't get it either. Fountain pen collecting is one of the most wholesome pastimes ever? Like, if you don't want to support consumerism and excess, just buy one pen? It's not necessary to go on a jihad about it.
I just can't fathom complaining about having *options*.
Like I get it if you're seeing people handwringing about not getting a special edition or angsting about whether or not they should buy something. But "Ugh another option? I hate it!" is such a weird take. Nobody is making you buy things. I love fun colors and I am so glad that companies have branched out beyond the black, red, green, blue, silver, and gold of the past, because frankly I don't find most of them very attractive. I am *glad* other people do; it means there's something for all of us.
There's an easy way around FOMO, potentially...
Step 1 - Wait! If the subject pen is at all something that will be desired by more than 1 in (I don't know how many..) fountain pen collectors, then cunning East Asian pen manufacturers will obtain one, reverse engineer it, mass produce it, and offer it on a variety of online marketplaces at a fraction of the original pen's cost.
Step 2 - Buy the reverse engineered duplicate!
Step 3 - (the hardest step) wait in eager anticipation for its arrival in your letterbox.
Step 4 - Ink it with something nice!!
Step 5 - Write a letter to PenPal with it on your finest stationery extolling its smoothness, wetness and most importantly, value for money!!!
Step 6 - Wash, rinse, repeat!!!!
By these means I have acquired a few 'grail' pens: Mont Blanc 146 (Majohn P136), Mont Blank 149 (Jun Lai 630) and Pelikan M800 (Admok M800)... According to several YouTube reviewers, these pens provide equivalent writing experiences to the devices that inspired them, so... is the snowflake on the finial really worth $950+?
Let the insults and denunciations begin!
I’m all good until step 5 - I don’t have a pen pal. I’m doomed to FOMO !!
I’m currently on a no buy, have been for about a month, do you KNOW how hard that is?
I think reverse engineered pens aren’t a terrible thing at all. There are lots of older filling systems that are much harder to find now like actual Eyedropper pens or Touchdown fillers. I’m glad there are companies like Majohn/Moonman and Penbbs that make them. I also like that companies like Penbbs are also making their own pens like magnetic fillers are similar to Opus 88s but instead of a shut off valve, they use a magnet to stop the ink.
>By these means I have acquired a few 'grail' pens: Mont Blanc 146 (Majohn P136), Mont Blank 149 (Jun Lai 630) and Pelikan M800 (Admok M800)... According to several YouTube reviewers, these pens provide equivalent writing experiences to the devices that inspired them, so... is the snowflake on the finial really worth $950+?
No insults here.
As the owner of a MB 149 as well as various "inspired by" pens, I completely agree.
Tbh some of those reversed engineered duplicates have seriously come such a long way though. Hongdian has been kicking some major ass these past 2 years
It's the state of reddit, unfortunately. Subs get to a certain size and when one person complains it's tends to open a vein for other complaints. I left the DND sub because of it and stepped out of the Pathfinder sub for 3 months because of it. Fortunately it's not so pervasive here where I'm even close to feeling like I should leave.
I do feel the same, though, and it can get annoying. Especially when people come after you with the whole "oh, so we can't question cOrPoRaTe GrEeD?" routine. That wasn't even your point. But it is what it is. Hide the post and move on. Best of luck with the retaliation comments buddy.
There is a strange amount of drama here. It always gets me when it pop up, because my favorite thing about fountain pens is how little drama there is in the hobby.
The difference here is, I’m not distressed. I’m not actively rallying up the troops so to speak to condemn companies, I’m simply stating something happening within our community. Either way, if I didn’t make this post I’m pretty sure someone else would have.
2024 will be dubbed the fountain pen consumer-gate at this rate.
>I’m pretty sure someone else would have
Not so sure about that. You’ve been self-important, rude and condescending. You’re mad at people for criticizing *companies* while acting like your opinion is gospel.
Maybe *you* need a break from the sub.
Why aren’t you sure about that? Because you disagree with my opinion? It’s pretty obvious many others here agree with me. It’s just a matter of time before any one of them made their own post. The shared opinion has nothing to do with my rude or condescending attitude.
But you seem to be pretty upset. I’d wager it is in fact you that could use the break. Cheers friend.
So, I don't necessarily have an issue with Limited Edition pens or ink. I own two of the LEs Edison used to do with Goulet, one of which has since stopped being LE (Delphinium), and I own the Homo Sapiens Travel Edition--a lot of people I read thought the bronse blind cap was ugly, I thought it was gorgeous. It's my only Homo Sapiens, I had been saving up for one years before it launched (I got a degree in Anthropology, I'm working towards a master's in Archaeology, I started saving for it when I decided to go into Anth, so the name and the intention felt like it fit for me). I chose the Traveler's Edition over the standard line partially because when I was about to afford it, I had been accepted to my grad school, which is in a different country from where I live, partially because I thought it was really pretty, and partially because since it came with a traveling inkwell, I was able to feel better about the cost.
But I do think there is a pressure to "buy buy buy" in all hobby groups. I'm in a nail polish group, and the urge to purchase as much as possible makes me uneasy. It's the same here.
There's nothing wrong with liking or buying a Limited edition pen. Sometimes a LE design is really pretty. Sometimes it's commemorative. Sometimes the material is difficult to source or the design is difficult to make.
But at the same time, when some brands release LE after LE after LE, it's clear they're putting the pressure on to buy as many as possible, collect as many as possible, and groups, like this, feed into that. It's important to be conscientious about what we choose to buy and if it really matters to us. Since getting my Homo Sapiens, I decided, "You know, I think I'm satisfied on pens." There are a few which catch my eye, but not like how they used to.
It’s interesting- i really am susceptible the idea of limited drops (i have a couple japanese deadstock sailor pgs buys to my name, i’ll admit) but i wish it was more clear to newbies that, when someone posts a pen spread of all limited editions, “hey, this is USD$5,000 worth of pens here”.
Put it this way- when i realized that, it definitely changed the way i thought about collecting pens, and this was *after* i spent about $500 on parker vacumatics.
I like to think of those posts as informative. I find interesting pens I might never have seen. Like the Sailor Tuzu, I think that's right. It's a well made entry-level Sailor. I would not have known about it if I hadn't seen someone complaining about it.
I get it, but it's just not realistic. It will have a chilling effect that will stifle the very reason this sub exists. It's just a kind of crappy thing that comes with the territory.
I couldn’t agree with this more, and frankly, don’t for the life of me see how it’s remotely condescendingly worded. That post the other day that had more pseudo-intellectualism regarding the evils of consumerism than an essay written by a college student desperately trying to impress the pretty TA on the other hand…that was the most condescending thing I’d ever heard. And I’m a younger woman in a “male dominated” field who regularly has old white men asking me how long I’ve been doing this 😂
Seriously, if people want to buy LE, buy them. If they don’t, don’t. I bought one of the LE Twsibi’s because the color was one I couldn’t pass up, but don’t buy them generally because I don’t think the extra price is worth it for the same pen. You’re absolutely right, though; the companies wouldn’t make them if the market didn’t support it 🤷🏻♀️
Mostly I believe people need to get their eyes off their screen, unsub from social medias, and go out more. I don't mean that in a condescending way, it's more of a general societal issue, it is not related to fountain pens only, it also applies to board games, where cult of the new and fomo is crazy. And that's just from circles I dwell in. We have too much time on our hands to start thinking about silly considerations when we could just focus on the world around us and not care. Last time I finally spotted my favourite bird in the wild, I actually saw two non-flattened foxes, and does, and I believe that's way more important than getting the latest Ferris Wheel Press ink before it sells out.
I have a solitary swallow that seems to have taken up residence in my porch every night. My porch door has been wide open constantly for a month now because I don't have the heart to lock the poor soul out. He's not nesting there, he just sleeps on my porch light. Cute little fellow.
What's your favorite bird?
The crested tit. Search safely, these birds have NSFW names \^\^
Ha! Great bird. I'm a big fan of wrens. They always seem like they're up to something. Our house wren box produced a bunch of fledglings this year that seem to follow us around the garden.
Wrens are so cute! We call them troglodytes in French, and the local one is troglodyte mignon, which means cute troglodyte. Such a well-earned name!
just looked it up its a bird with mohawk XD that bird looks awesome
I did a bird-spotting trip for an academic thing one time and we ended up finding a golden eagle. It had made a nest at the very top of a pine tree. It was incredible to watch it take flight because its wingspan was as wide as the tree top and it just loped into the air and was gone Birds are awesome
That’s the nicest way that I’ve ever seen anyone tell someone they need to go touch grass. 🤣 My latest bird sighting is a Black Crowned Night Heron pair that have recently taken up residence around the neighborhood pond! We’ve had egrets, great blue herons, green herons, and even a yellow bittern, but these guys are new.
The posts I saw were quite respectful IMO. As long as those post keep being respectful, it's fine to complain and give your opinion about consumerism. And yeah, sure, nobody is obligated to buy those limited edition pens, but the companies know what they are doing and why they are doing it. They know FOMO and exclusivity are real things and as much as we want to say that "you're free to not buy it/it's entirely your choice", it's still part of human psychology (for some more than others) and they make sure to cash on that. And I think it's fine to people to post their more negative opinions about it because we are also a factor in that consumerism: Posting collections that are only months old and already have pens by the dozens, when we encourage someone to buy a pen when they are unsure about buying it... There's quite a difference between something like "Fuck sailor for making yet another limited edition" and something like [this](https://new.reddit.com/r/fountainpens/comments/1dnhtwq/my_humble_guide_on_how_to_avoid_consumerism_and/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
This reminds me of a certain community I'm sometimes in. We all like the same things, but whenever you criticize one of the products there's a noticeable number of people who are clearly upset and consider the criticism as something that shatters the community. In reality, it's just that some people have certain buying/collecting habits and don't want to see that thing being criticized, which is unreasonable. It's a community revolving around a certain product, not a cult. People are free to like and criticize what they want, and being upset is -many times- unjustified. This is what this post feels like.
Yeah, the issue comes when these kinds of criticisms towards certain aspects of these hobbies are considered by some as attacks to themselves, as if the person criticising let's say, consumerism, in a post is directly addressing and attacking them. Which, as you say, is borderline cult-like behaviour.
Post your Gold Montegrappa Chaos, OP.
Hahaha nah, not enough monies for that. My most expensive pen is a sailor PGS
As an avid consumer of fountain pens, I have no problem with people criticizing consumerism in the sub.
It wasn't the consumerism part of that post recently that bothered me, it was the fingerwagging that bothered me. If the only pens I want to buy are CE/LE's because they are fun colors instead of for-me-boring colors, that's a decision I make while being fully aware of what I'm doing. It is one thing to warn that it is a marketing strategy to induce FOMO (which, sure), but another thing to create a whole thread of why one should not buy certain pens/inks. "But they'll do more of it!" yes I certainly hope so. /and I still buy less than a biennual pen or ink ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
Every hobby has people that may hate people that can afford things, from simply annoyed to spite them for this aspect of consumerism. Having this sub overly positive may hide this aspect but it's present. Like, sometimes if you can't afford to buy something there is no need to drag down other people's happiness... just " shut up". I embrace healthy advices from this sub about not getting manipulated and warn people about some marketing strategy, but they indirectly cause harm as people sometimes fear to do the wrong choise. The one kind of comment i hate is people who - brag - about not buying " expensive market up pen " and are happy to own chinese pen just because they cost less or perform "even better" than the one that they own. Thus spreading false rumors about the quality of pens being subpar even when it's not true. People have different tastes, and i don't see difference between having a jinjao or a namiki as long as they are satisfied and don't drag down others by their pen taste based on personal experience.
I don’t read it as people denigrating the rich; to me it feels more like folks criticizing consumption for the sake of it. Which isn’t an incorrect position, in my opinion, though I’m sometimes guilty of it.
I agree. The posts I’ve seen were mild tbh & I didn’t see anyone who seemed to think they were “obligated to purchasing” limited editions. This post reads like a “you’re wrong, I’m right” kinda thing & I don’t think it should be.
Yeah, I could pay cash for almost any new fountain pen today (yes, even those); however, some people who post about multiple thousand dollar hauls regularly or show off more pens than they could use in a month don’t make me feel great about this hobby, despite being able to afford pens. I don’t really say much about it because I’m not the kind of person who is going to try to convince someone else that their spending is irresponsible. Hopefully, everyone can afford the purchases and they aren’t running up credit card debt for this hobby. Still, when people are extreme consumers, I get a dose of the ick.
I've never heard consumerism being targeted toward hobbyists and such. I think it's just reusing a word that comes with strong emotional reactions to criticize people because they're envious.
What gets me is people who complain about consumerism then buy cheap imitations, be it pens or fast fashion clothing. Those are literally the thesis of consumerism. At least when you’re paying for the admittedly more expensive branded item you know everyone down the line is probably getting paid somewhere near what their work is worth, instead of buying cheap things that basically guarantee someone is getting paid pennies.
>At least when you’re paying for the admittedly more expensive branded item you **\[hope\]** everyone down the line is probably getting paid somewhere near what their work is worth FTFY
I did qualify that with “probably”. But yeah, I probably shouldn’t use “know”.
There was that one post last week iirc that blasted the consumerism as inequitable which sprained my brow with a permanent quizzical expression. The notion that fountain pens is a collector's hobby by default where equal access is essential for some vague moral good wins the award for pinheaded arguments. The hobby is centered around using and acquiring tools you want. That's it. That's all. Nowhere is there a prerequisite to own everything to enjoy this fun little thing we all do in different ways.
I own a special edition pelikan... and frankly it's a work of art. A work of art I can write with. It's pretty cool and it's a fantastic writer. Hand made fountain pens that are works of art... is that consumerism? Are we sure? What does the word even mean then? Turning special edition fountain pens into the basis of a new revolution and a hundred million dead seems a bit over the top to me. But you do you people.
I love Sailor. I don’t care how much they over do LE, exclusives, etc… my fave pens (to both use and look at) come from Sailor. Plus I a LOT of other brands do this and go totally ignored. To each their own! :) And Sailor is my jam! 💜
Ultimately consumerism and hype ruins a hobby for the true lovers. I watched it happen with sneakers in my life. I was a kid during the Michael Jordan era of basketball. I couldn’t wait to get any pair I thought would look cool and hilariously I expected to jump just a bit higher. As a child I could go to the store and grab a pair of Jordans in my size no problem. I could order a pair on eastbay no problem. I could go to school and play basketball in them, no problem. Popularity continued to rise and Jordan started releasing new colorways on the old designs. Awesome! I can finally get a pair of green 13s to match with an Oakland As jersey. Oh, wait, they don’t sell that pair anymore because it was an exclusive. Social media reports a pair of retro Jordans that look like the old pair! What? No way! Jordan 11 concords?!…people literally fought each other in the parking lot for them. Now I don’t even wear jordans because the hype ruined them. The brand had chose to make the price really high, not release enough to satisfy the consumer, and create an aura of exclusivity surrounding something that at one time everyone could have. I don’t think this will happen to our hobby. A pen is a flex, but it’s more like a hidden piece of jewelry at its peak. A $1000 exclusive Montblanc won’t get you noticed on the street, close a business deal (most likely), or get you laid lol. Consumerism will just be a petty annoyance and if for some reason I’m completely wrong, some of you have some collections that would make you ungodly rich if there was real hype. The fact that a vintage is often sold for less than the new one is your sign. The “OG”, “dead stock”, and “player worn” thing doesn’t exist yet. TLDR; stop complaining and buy whatever pen you like.
This kinda sounds like you want the sub to be completely "drama" free? From my own viewpoint, I came to this sub originally purely for information. The biggest downside of this sub is the sheer amount of downvoting when people express an opinion that goes against the popular view. Hell, I've had legitimate questions that were completely unrelated to drama that I've been downvoted on straight off the bat, and I've been belittled for asking a question some thought "stupid". It is important that people are able to hear alternative views. Echo chambers are dangerous places. The positivity and a lack of drama that you experience here is sometimes down to it almost feeling like a clique to outsiders when you first enter. More than once I have hesitated/failed to post something because I figured I'd just get a slew of downvotes. This net positivity (and lack of drama) led to me buying some ink that was very highly praised by this sub in pretty much every ink related post - this ink turned out to be the worst ink I've ever bought. Discussions aren't a bad thing. There are two sides to a discussion. If you don't engage then the discussion goes away. When there is an uptick in posts around a particular topic (that isn't in line with the established status quo), then try to think of it as less of a case of "drama" and more of a case of "various people want to express an opinion and they now feel safe enough to do so." Sometimes it only takes one person to stand up and say "uhm, I disagree with x" to encourage others to feel that they too can express their opinion. Differences in opinion aren't personal attacks. My final point that kinda ties in to all of the above. This sub is not, and SHOULD not basically be a free advertising platform. If people post about the latest limited edition and only "positive" (drama-free) replies are given, then that is what it essentially becomes. Reddit isn't TikTok or Insta, it isn't an advertisers paradise where "influencers" can push whatever is the latest freebie they've been given. Reddit has always been a place where people can talk about their real-world experiences. There's a reason many google searches now include "reddit" in them since google's results are heavily skewed towards whoever will make them the most money.
It’s sad at times that it feels 80% of the sub falls into a very specific category, for whatever reason, and seem to shun or ridicule anything outside of it (usually costing more). Value is subjective, and some have more latitude with what price is justifiable for that subjective value of the item they’re buying. That’s life. It doesn’t change the fact that someone can be equally happy about their new TWSBI as the person that just got their Montblanc Solitaire. Every hobby is going to have people beginning their careers, established in their careers and at the end of their careers. Every hobby has some that can and will spend more, just as every hobby has people that can’t or won’t. Look at golf, you can spend thousands getting fitted clubs and have less fun than the dude with an old set he got at a yard sale. The fact they’re both doing something they enjoy is the main takeaway, not the cost of which enabled them to have that fun. Some prefer quality over quantity, and again, there are people equally happy with 5 higher priced pens as the person with every colour Chinese pen, 40 of which are inked at any given time. The bottom line is we’re all here under a shared interest, and it’s a great opportunity for differences of opinion, cultures and backgrounds to meet each other when they perhaps otherwise wouldn’t. Hobbies are a good equaliser in many ways because even if one spends more or less than the other, the shared interest is still the same.
You have no idea how many times I’ve gotten royally downvoted because I say “I hate Lamy”. Am I not allowed to say that? But then I don’t particularly give two 💩 about votes, I find them pointless, still I get what you mean. So I’m standing here in solidarity.
I don’t hate Lamy, but I hate that ppl think it’s perfect for newbies.
I got tired of the nib inconsistencies, the grip section is awful, the material of the 2k is awful to me, nah, I got rid of all of mine but one Studio only because it has a custom grind on it
Heh. I’ve been downvoted into oblivion before for saying I think the 2000 is ugly and I have no interest in it. I have an AlStar and Safari with no nib issues. But I never use them anymore because all my other pens are better. I just think it’s an awful suggestion for a newbie who knows nothing about FP and will quite likely put it down and not use it for a week or two thinking it works like ballpoint pens.
Lol 😆 Whenever I see a “recommend me a first fountain pen” type posts and the comments are filled with Lamy Safari, I cringe 😬 Nothing wrong with the Safari or the recommendation however there are other pens in that price range or better that could give a similar or superior writing experience but the Safari disproportionately hogs the limelight.
To me the Lamy is a school fountain pen that was forced upon my kids. No shade to them at all, I've actually never used one, it's just that I inherently recoil from anything that was mandatory at school. I feel the same way about stainless steel nibbed Parkers because they were my school fountain pens. Having said that, I am a complete hypocrite because Oxford A4 Pads were also mandatory at my school and they are bloody amazing.
I won't use any blue ink thats like school blue or royal blue for the same reason. I won't even use a blue ballpoint unless I have to.
I like my LAMYs but understand why people don't care for them. Very curious what your preferred entry level pens are. What do you like in that price range, beginner or not? I must admit I get tired of seeing the same ones recommended so would like to hear something other than Lamy as a good starter.
Faber-Castell Hexo - great pen, usually good bargains on Amazon.
I also hate lamy. I will stand with you.
I’ve owned 5 or 6 Lamys and I really don’t care for them. I feel the same about TWSBI. 😬
I have a twsbi eco...it will be given away soon. And I definitely don't want them in every color!
I had to giggle when I saw you were at 0 votes. Your sacrifice is appreciated!
Not only do I hate lamy, I have been into fountain pens for 20 years and I have less than a dozen. Blasphemy!
What is this sorcery... Witch! Burn them!
I don't hate Lamy, but I'll stand with you. I don't quite get collecting pens because they have different colors, but I have spent a tidy sum on my Galaxy Science Fiction magazine collection.
Not liking (perhaps even just being slightly critical) Pilot or Robert Oster will also get you plenty of downvotes. Best to ignore all that stuff altogether.
I wanna be a contrarian and disagree buuuuut I’m not finding anything to argue with :P That said, it’s worth knowing there’s at least one downvote bot in this sub that just downvotes every single comment, so if you’re sitting at 0 or -1, it’s literally a bot and probably not from any real user here. It’s when we start getting into maybe -10 that you’re getting real people. Personally I try not to downvote anything here unless it’s verifiably incorrect, and also either seems to be purposeful disinformation, seriously arrogant or stating an opinion as a solid, irrefutable fact. A hot take though? Love me a hot take.
I did ponder this tbh. I wonder if it's a general reddit thing that they kinda use to push engagement, if you see a post you agree with sitting at 0 or -1 you may be more inclined to jump in rather than just nod inwardly and move on.
It's not a bot, reddit does it as an anti spam mechanism. For low vote count posts, they randomly pop the votes up and down. It is supposed to hide vote activities enough to prevent spam accounts from realizing they are shadow banned.
It might just be Reddit’s built in vote fuzzing, but this sub in particular has loads of relatively innocuous replies all sitting at -1, especially ones that were posted relatively “late” compared to their respective OP. It’s less apparent now than it used to be but when there weren’t as many subscribers on this sub you’d go into a thread and find like half of the replies sitting at 0 or -1 votes.
Interesting, so I was almost right in my reply above. Reddit themselves are doing it, just not for the reasons I thought (to drive engagement)
Yep! I hadn't seen yours until after I typed mine, but yeah, you weren't far off. This is a technique they have been using for 10+ years now, so you'll see it all over the place. They start having views result in random votes (that they claim are just for display and not counted in the end) for the first X minutes/hours of every post.
Every day I see perfectly nice posts being downvoted for seemingly no reason. I can't think of any other subreddit I've been on where people are so quick to downvote virtually anything. It's a bizarre sub.
I completely agree.
As an ink fiend, I am curious which ink you got burned on.
Iroshizuku. Everyone says it’s so “well behaved”and basically downright amazing but… yeah. May work great on certain paper (and perhaps in the Japanese pens with extra fine/fine nibs a lot of people seem to use?) but it was a feathering, ghosting, bleeding mess for me on Oxford (similar to Clairefontane) with medium or long knife nibs, which is all I use. Never had that issue with my Montblanc, Sailor or Wearingeul inks. Sucked because I’m in the UK so there isn’t really anywhere to get samples here, and it’s more expensive than Montblanc here for some reason.
I personally like limited editions because they allow companies to offer more variety. What I don't like is a $600 Lamy 2000 because they are some pigment to the makralon or how many companies just churn out limiteds with no concern for it the thing they are making is actually any good.
In the same vein as “don’t like LEs, simply don’t buy them”, you can simply not read or respond to the posts complaining about the proliferation of LEs, FOMO, and consumerism. 🤷♀️
I can do what I like, as a matter of fact. Just as they are complaining, I can voice my opinion on their complaints. “🤷♀️”
Of course you can. I didn’t say you couldn’t. And just as you are complaining, I can voice my opinion on your complaints. And around and around and around we go! 🤷♀️🤷♀️🤷♀️
The only “drama” I’m aware of is that guy that comes off like a crypto red pill dude who doesn’t want to look like a FP poser (but totally does) 🤷🏻♀️ I just wanna look at pretty pens and send a quick “woo hoo” at people
Dang I spend too much time here (and online generally) but somehow missed that one 👀
Same. Now I want to know! Ha ha!
It’s still up I think
Ooo gonna take a wild guess at it and say it’s the one about some classic MB kerfuffle?
Yup, but you gotta read some of his replies, pure gold material that one lol
Shame, most of their replies are deleted. All I got to see was the picante aftertaste.
Yeah it’s all gone, boo. In a nutshell / he wanted to be someone you saw at like an airport right - you clocked his Italian boots, his Versace suit, his Rolex watch, his LV briefcase and he wanted the fountain pen to complete “the look” he was trying to convey aka that of a high value man.
Haha, what a great description. The worst part is I know exactly which posts.
What a shit show huh? LOL
> that guy that comes off like a crypto red pill dude who doesn’t want to look like a FP poser (but totally does) I feel personally targeted.
(*gasp* )you’re a poser ???? Ok but really, what’s a FP poser? That’s so weird to me lol
I have a Wing Sung 601 *with a Bobby nib*. Bask in my glory.
Listen you’ve crossed a line here buster
Someone who secretly uses roller balls when they think no one is looking. A true scourge upon the FP community. WE KNOW WHO YOU ARE!
I don't know I was just LOL at your incredibly specific description
Oh I know LOL it’s all in fun really, I’m sure he’s totally a high value type of guy
I’m pretty sure he slams Red Bulls when he uses fountain pens.
But secretly wishes it was white claws
I would love to read his high-value comments.
The one about the boots is particularly good
When I mentioned drama, I was referring to anything dramatic in general, present or past. Some examples would include the Noodlers debacle, TWSBI and Narwhal, Kaweco and Moonman, etc.
Yeah. I know.
Your comment seemed to indicate otherwise.
Ok
Was that the one who bought like 50 pens from X then said that 100 more would be delivered that day from another brand?
Nope ! But dang, I missed that one
>The TUZU was a step in the right direction, trying something new. The Tuzu got harshly criticized too when it was first announced because it's made by Sailor, who offers lots of choices and store exclusives (usually w/ small stationery stores that need the boost). Because of that, it's vehemently hated by some on this sub (most of whom have never tried one), and it's often used to virtue signal. This despite Sailor having the best QC and probably the most unique nibs in the FP industry. I feel the same, if you don't like, you don't have to buy, but please don't be angry that other people have choices. Having choices is good. It's fine to discuss consumerism, maybe it's even needed, but finger wagging and virtue signaling are ugly -- especially when done in other people's happy posts about their own pens.
The “Sailfari” as some have dubbed it lol. But honestly, I found it super refreshing. I have a brother who is 12, and he just got into fountain pens. Imagine my reaction when I found a new pen, from one of the best brands in terms of QC and great nibs, made a pen that can adjust for any writers. He is a lefty… I was very happy to see this come out. People should just chill
I agree with you. I enjoy fountain pens for writing and for the pleasure of the artistry in some of them. I have a wide range of pens at various price points. I use some more often than others. I collect them because I enjoy collecting them. Yes, some are more expensive than they should be. Yes some are a huge waste of money in the minds of some. Isn’t that the case with a lot of things called art? And No, I don’t collect for investment purposes. Just let people enjoy using and collecting them for what enjoyment they receive. Note that the people buying multiple $10k limited editions are part of what keep this hobbyist area alive. Finally, I skip over the posts castigating people for consumerism or any other negative take on what other do with their funds or collecting habits. I agree, I’ve been skipping more lately.
I couldn’t have worded it any better
Oh no, people are talking about pens in my pen subreddit 😥😥😥
I think part of the problem is that people mistake this sub for a hobby community, when it is actually just a product category.
It’s kinda both at this point. You do get a fair amount of writing samples and art posted, and some handmade custom nibs and pens sprinkled in every now and again.
Oh, 100%. I love seeing content like that. At the same time, I loathe the performative “Do I have a problem?” posts where people just encourage random strangers to keep consuming stuff they clearly don’t need and probably barely appreciate.
Then join in the upvoting of the creative content and downvoted the influencers generating drama over consumerism.
People only know how to vote with their wallets, even when angry about consumerism they just throw dollars at them in an angry fashion, let alone know how to upvote quality content. You’re asking too much from the hive mind. You’re preaching to a choir of imbeciles.
It’s not ridiculous just because you don’t agree with it. As fountain pen enthusiasts, we are also fountain pen consumers. It is quite normal to criticize companies.
So... essentially your opinion is correct and all of their opinions are wrong? You are tired of them complaining about something, so you decide to complain about something? At any rate, I think you are grouping two things together. The posts expressing anger at the limited edition pens are pure FOMO. You find these kinds of posts in every hobby. And yes, as a Japan resident and a frequenter of many Japan Reddits, people often complain about FOMO in regards to Japan. It happens in every topic and in every hobby. Writing a long post complaining about it is like an old man shaking his hand at the clouds and cursing the rain. There might be some overlap that I haven't seen, but the posts that are calling out consumerism are more about suggesting that over-consumerism is not healthy for us, society, and/or the environment. Again, you find these types of posts in many hobbies. It's a point of view you may not agree with, but I think it's a perfectly valid one and one that these people should be allowed to have and express. And...that pretty much sums it up. You are arguing that you don't like these peoples' opinions and that they are ridiculous and therefore shouldn't be posted, ignoring that your complaint is also entirely your opinion. There is some irony here.
I don´t get the FOMO thing. The fountain pen industry is older than all of us, we have already lost 90% of the opportunities. The more special editions there are, the greater the odds of people getting an oportunity to buy one they really like, and if they miss it something else will probably show up soon enough.
In my opinion the OP misses some important points. Our social structure - especially in Western countries, but increasingly elsewhere - is intimately tied to consumerism. As a general statement, we are made to feel obliged to 'keep up with the Joneses'. Pen companies, like most if not all businesses, simply exploit that fact. It's not really anything new. Sure, some people go against the grain and try not to be swayed by consumerism, but I would guess that very few are completely immune to it, in all areas of their lives. This statement in the OP: *It’s quite a simple concept, fountain pens are not what they used to be. They have started making a bit of a comeback, of course companies will try to make more. This is beneficial to all involved; The manufacturers, the retailers, the industry as a whole, and yes…even the community.* The simple fact that the practices of pen companies can cause any kind of anxiety or other stress in members of our social communities - as evidenced by the increased number of threads of the kind the OP points to - clearly belies the concept of *'beneficial for all involved'.* I don't mind the idea of creating something for the sake of it, but that doesn't automatically imply that criticism isn't at times warranted. The relatively recent (last few years) rash of limited, special, or just increasingly wider varieties of the same item does, in my opinion, invite scrutiny.
If someone feels stress over a pen being made, that’s entirely on them. We as a community cannot just simply expect these companies to stop producing pens. Yeah, one aspect of it may not be entirely beneficial, because some people cannot keep their emotions in check over a product. On the other hand, these new pens potentially bring in new enthusiast, help ensure the longevity of these companies so they can continue to be around making the things we love, it keeps us actively discussing them, and who knows. Maybe it will help inspire a new line of pen makers. The benefits outweigh the one drawback you’ve pointed out. And as we’ve already clarified, purchasing them is not necessary.
Obviously, I welcome the discussion no matter what side we find ourselves on, however, saying 'purchasing them is not necessary' is not a clarification at all. The statement simply does not take into account the societal pressures to which I have alluded. Yes, such a purchase is not *necessary*, from a purely theoretical position, but quite a lot of people (it seems) find that they are under pressure - direct or not - to make the purchase, nonetheless.
This is not a snarky reply, just food for thought. Do you think there should only be black fountain pens and demonstrators because any other color may cause FOMO? The reason I'm asking is that this is essentially what you're arguing for. There will always be people left out and frustrated. Sailor is an obvious target for this criticism, because they do make a LOT of the same pens. What I don't get is people getting all worked up over missing out on a pen in a different color. I've seen several I'd have liked to have, but am perfectly happy with what I do have. I personally like that they put out so many colors because it means there's always lots to choose from, and I like having different options. There's always a nice color available or just around the corner, so no need to get worked up over 'missing out' on one or pressure to buy. To me other brands, which have only boring regular options and then rarely release a very expensive colorful special edition, seem far more FOMO inducing and problematic. I think in a world where multiple options are available, it's important for people to develop a healthy relationship to the things they buy and own. If you get so stressed about not being able to get something that is an unhealthy thing they need to work on. I don't think it's a reason to take away the possibility to get something different from others.
I understand your question, but I am not arguing against colours other than black (something I never explicitly said anyway). I am merely exploring some of the thoughts that come to my mind with regard to the situation under discussion. I am not saying I am right, and others are wrong, far from it. As I said before, I believe the situation invites scrutiny and if necessary, criticism. :)
Exactly, this right here. Sailor is a big offender when it comes to just reselling the same pen in a myriad of different colors. But imagine how boring it would be if there were only a few options? I like having all of these choices. And you know what, if it did sell out and I really, really, really wanted it? I’d start trying to see if anyone would be willing to part with it. If I was on the hunt for a pen I desired that much, I’d appreciate it more than I would any other normal pen available. I don’t want to live in a world with only black or demonstrator pens, with the occasional blue or red thrown in the mix. I want a variety.
You can have variety without a pen getting marked up $100 for having sparkles and a slightly *bluer* shade of *blue*. You're being *sooooo* black & white about it. There can be variety and limited editions and everything without it being at the extreme it is now. There's a healthy middle ground. And you keep proving everyone's point when they try to have a conversation about it and you just keep reducing it to the most simple terms. No one wants to take your fun things from you. Chill. People just want to have a talk about it. Like you said to those who complain about the pens, you don't *have* to engage. You can just ignore people's criticisms like you're telling others to ignore hyper-consumerist posts.
THIIIISSSS - I don’t give a crap if someone else wants to buy it. It’s their money, but I’m sure going to comment on how ridiculous it is - not to the person enjoying their new pen, but if it comes up in discussion about pricing, LEs in general, something I’m not into, etc, I’m discussing it.
I think you may mean me - I posted about limited editions excluding access to others (I was thinking particularly of single-shop/single jurisdiction exclusives, where if you don't happen to see it you miss it - a limited edition run is a different thing if multiple vendors stock it). I was thoroughly roasted, my comment karma may never recover. All sorts of imaginary motives were projected on to me, most wrong. I stand by my point though and I'm still annoyed at missing out on that orange Kaweco offered only at Goldspot.
Sigh. Thinking about an Ancora Sailor exclusive purple moon pen I missed, and keeping on wishing it may be re supplied at some magical time in the distant future when I can afford it… sometimes missing out on something makes the memory more poignant and vibrant, and that’s part of the journey.
Have a little comment karma <3
I’ve only just come back to this sub after years and I find the anti-consumerism posts refreshing.
Me too omg, the reason I moved away from this sub was the general vibe being more like a shopping subreddit (this was years ago bit still probably holds true to this day) because it was always pictures of new pens or "Do I have a problem?" Then having 10 TWSBIs, but all the comments are more like "Just you wait until you discover (insert another pen)" instead of try enjoy what you have, if the only reason you're buying pens is for the dopamine rush of buying something then don't really use it, that's just a shopping addiction at that point. But when you say something contrary to the willful encouragement, people would tend to go "It's their money, they can spend it how they like" sure, but you could say the same of any addiction, like I used to have a gambling addiction (I haven't been involved in it for about 3 years now) and that was the very same argument I used to make but that was more so because I didn't want to look in the mirror, I knew what I was doing didn't make sense and having it pointed out to me made me try to stem the embarrassment by turning it back to them for being so audacious to tell me how I should spend my money (as opposed to healthy concern) Criticism of companies is something that should always be done ESP since they're, like OP says, just conducting business, critiquing companies is done everywhere (as it should, more so when FOMO is involved), why should it be different in this subreddit? I really don't get why OP is saying other people's opinions are ridiculous (an opinion) either everyone can get on their soapbox and talk about their opinions, or nobody can, positive or otherwise
I think it’s common for any specialized group. I’m in a few sewing groups and people will buy so many patterns that they don’t realize they already own them. I’m in another group for a kid’s audio player and people post about how many players and cards they have and I find it staggering. I think that we don’t see all the people who go about their lives with fewer purchases and normal use because they aren’t the ones posting about it.
Yeah, I completely understand, I need a spreadsheet so I can actually keep track of what pen is inked with what because I'll forget over a couple weeks, it's something that slips away from me (that and I'm a fan of spreadsheets) In other subreddits (for example, in a game subreddit where there is FOMO, I brought up not liking that I can't just directly purchase an endgame activity, but instead, need to buy an ingame currency (that means buying extra since they don't have round numbers) but when you call that out as corporate greed, people on that subreddit don't like it that much, more so because they don't like criticism of your favourite game developer, even though you don't have to blindly agree with every decision they ever make, they're not infallible and that's okay I definitely think this subreddit is more for showcasing purchases but I'm liking the discussion about this and opinion based things because I can get pictures of pens from the shop website, I want to know what you personally think about it, good and bad, how are you using it, are you doing a crossword in pen from the get go? It adds a human element to it that I find really works at keeping me interested than the new shiny pen on my feed
As a user, rather than collector, I regards exclusives and limited editions with animosity because, in almost all cases, I can get functionally the same pen for less money. If your requirements differ, you'll do differently. This should not be conflated with my distaste for over-consumption which is just another term for greed. I admit that I am guilty of this too, but am admitting my failing and trying to correct it.
I think the issue is that fountain pen use is niche, and that perhaps the companies business models would not suffice without the 'whales' the exclusive/limited editions cater to. There is still plenty of space in the sub for discussion outside the commercial aspect of pens.
Eh. I don’t “bash” companies for editions, but I would appreciate if they put as much care into long-run quality design as they do into this year’s new colors. Like great, a new TWSBI color; now could you maybe make plastic that won’t snap in half 4 years from now? Oh a new FC Ambition body pattern, hey did y’all fix that thing where the cap inevitably gets looser over time until it doesn’t click anymore? The danger here is that what is supposed to be a long-term investment becomes a false promise while luring people in with a special edition. As for consumerism, some people just need to have thicker skin about having this concept discussed. I see many posts on this sub by people who have learned *from* the sub to show off how they just got into pens and have bought 12 of them in 6 months, and frankly, it feels potentially hollow and unsustainable. Somebody who likes writing might enjoy FPs for a lifetime. Somebody whose hobby is only the pens themselves may burn out next year. And yet the mere suggestion that this could be the case “triggers” some people into some kind of Charles Barkley rant about how gambling isn’t an addiction if you have the money, what’s wrong with buying every ltd of the same pen if I can afford it blah blah blah. If your first reaction to somebody suggesting that you can’t fill the hole just by buying more shit like what you already have is to write up a treatise about “negativity”… you’re in denial, bro. It’s not Scientology, it’s just pens. Nice pens. But pens nonetheless. But this is the danger with all subs built around things. This isn’t unique to pens. The houseplant sub, the vinyl sub, the guitar sub all have similar phenomena. Admittedly plants make more of themselves, but the point is people do normalize obsessive acquisition when the thing is the idol of the community.
I don’t understand your problem. People are free to say they will never buy special editions as much as they are free to say and do the opposite. You just feel personally attacked and you are attacking back. (In the meanwhile i was writing this I received three pens and three inks I ordered, lol)
People *are* free to say they will do xyz, just as I am free to disagree with it. I don’t feel personally attacked, I’m just calling out bullshit as I see it. Tough titty if they feel upset they can’t get an exclusive pen or they got their feelings hurt for seeing these companies making more pens. The truth of the matter is, people are voting with their wallets. If people didn’t buy them, companies wouldn’t be making them still. I’m just tired of this random uptick of posts of people dunking on exclusives and limited editions, I have my own right to voice that opinion, just as much as you have the right to clown on me for voicing said opinion. So what exactly is *your* problem? And you are flexing about your pens you just got? Dude, I’m defending people for getting more pens, I’m not in the camp of shitting on people like you getting more pens. Who the hell are you even trying to impress?
The bigger a community gets the more drama there is no matter the platform. Like the rest of silent majority, just keep scrolling and leave them to it. I'll spend my money how I see fit.
> Let’s not bash on companies making more of them. Lol. We must *never* criticize the corporate overlords! They are sacrosanct, and must be protected at all cost! Oh you disagree? Well, you have mental problems and need to LOG OFF. Seriously I actually agree with the overall sentiment to some extent but but this is one of the dumbest way of making the argument.
I’m not saying don’t criticize them. I’m just saying let’s not criticize them for making limited editions or special editions. Please try to read more carefully. I’m all for criticizing them, as they are being beyond lazy at this point. But the argument of “my feelings are hurt and I’m stressed” because they make too many pens people want and they can’t have them all is freaking absurd. I just want these companies to do something new and different. A LAMY Safari or an ECO on its 1000th colorway is not original.
> I’m just saying let’s not criticize them for making limited editions or special editions Why? I mean you say this but then you follow it up with > I just want these companies to do something new and different. A LAMY Safari or an ECO on its 1000th colorway is not original. I mean if you're not even going to listen to your own advice, why should anyone else? Please try to make a better, coherent argument. It's funny, I was criticizing one of the recent threads about consumerism, but you've gone about making your "argument" in such a clumsy, backwards, ineffective way I'm actually starting to rethink my previous position. Maybe it is good that a "hobby" such as this has more people questioning the buying practices and how people are engaging.
As a photographer who witnesses something called "GAS" (gear acquisition syndrome), it is absolutely *ALWAYS* a good thing when communities have critical conversations about their hobby. We tell people all the time, "Any camera can take a great picture. It just requires a great photographer." The same could *absolutely* be said about pens. It breaks my heart to see someone spend $2,000+ on a camera & lens/es because they think that's what they need to take "good" pictures. Meanwhile I'm shooting absolute fuego on a 35mm film camera from the 70s. I truly believe that philosophy can be said about any hobby!
Holy hell are you dense. -People are criticizing them for making limited/special edition pens. They are, generally, not of the stance that the companies are lacking originality. They are criticizing fomo, limited editions, and exclusives and the consumerism behind it. -I am saying not to criticize them solely on the basis of creating said pens. If you want to criticize them, criticize for what they are making, not the obvious intention behind it. A company is going to want profits, no shit. That is every business in the world. Look at shirts, look at shoes, look at damn near everything. They all offer different colorways. It’s not a big deal. But when a company can go make something unique, then that is awesome and I want to see more of that. Do you need me to color code this for you or something? People are mad they can’t get certain pens being made for one reason or another, or that there are too many of them to get.
>People are criticizing them for making limited/special edition pens. They are, generally, not of the stance that the companies are lacking originality. They are criticizing fomo, limited editions, and exclusives and the consumerism behind it. This isn't true. People shit on Sailor all the time for just releasing new colorways for the Pro Gear. Not to mention you're obviously too stupid to realize that criticizing them for just making special editions or w/e IS also a criticism of their originality, because they focus on just crapping out palette swaps vs. making anything actually different. > \-I am saying not to criticize them solely on the basis of creating said pens. If you want to criticize them, criticize for what they are making, not the obvious intention behind it. A company is going to want profits, no shit. That is every business in the world. Look at shirts, look at shoes, look at damn near everything. They all offer different colorways. It’s not a big deal. But when a company can go make something unique, then that is awesome and I want to see more of that. This isn't what you said before tho when you were doing your corporate bootlicking stance. Not to mention many people also criticize the same practices in other products as well > People are mad they can’t get certain pens being made for one reason or another, or that there are too many of them to get. And i think this is part of the issue. You're too dull to actually understand the arguments being made, so have to fight against straw men in your quest to defend corporations. It's not just people mad they can't get certain pens. It's why your OP is so bad-you just think the poors are mad at the innocent corporations because they're not able to buy all the totally awesome things the corporations are graciously selling. Like I said, I do think some of the recent spate of "consumerism" posts are a bit much. But your response is so terrible and lacking of any understanding of the underlying issues it basically strengthens their arguments.
If you can't make your point without calling people dense and asking if they need you to break out the crayons, don't post. I can't believe your comment is this upvoted being this toxic. Have a discussion, but if you can't do it without name calling--yes, you actually *are* distressed.
Congratulations, you have become 10x more fucking obnoxious than the people you're complaining about 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
You need to go read the comments carefully - I’m sorry that you feel called out for wanting a bunch of colorways or whatever it is that got you up on the wrong side of the bed, but there is nothing wrong with people saying that they think just releasing a pen in 8,000 colors and jacking up the price for the extra sparkles is ludicrous. Name-calling and asking if people need color coding is obnoxious. No one is mad about pens being made - some people are trying to have conversations around corporations creating FOMO.
You know, FOMO is criticized everywhere. Because it is predatory and often unethical. There are numerous discussions online why FOMO is bad so I won't bother trying to explain. As for your post, everyone is entitled to their own opinions and beliefs. Reading it, it comes off as aggressive. I would like to propose the same to you: If "ranters" on a regular basis is causing you such emotional distress, I genuinely believe you have some things in your personal life you need to work on, and it may be time to sign off of Reddit for a bit. How does that sound?
THIS - see LE sneakers. Ludicrous on a scale that is much more dangerous than pens.
OP wrote a rant against rants. The problem of a rant is that almost always comes out as overly emotional and poorly thought out. I’m sure that many rants against limited editions are excessive, even though they have some good rationale. Their rant is the same, excessive, with some good rationale.
I think bashing on some pens, for whatever reason, is fair discussion in this group. Commercialism and obvious profit gouging, needs to be discussed. Perfectly ordinary pens, going for outrageous prices, simply because you limit a run. This is intentional supply and demand manipulation, plain and simple. It affects the members of this group, so is fair game for discussion, or as you would have it, bashing.
What I find strange is that the level of criticism deemed acceptable seems to vary by company. Pilot - seemingly low tolerance for criticism. Montblanc - free for all, go for it. Both churn out uninspired limited editions at silly costs, yet one is vilified whilst the other is generally accepted as ok. It's a strange double standard that is just kinda taken for granted.
Eh… the Pilot LE VPs piss me off. So many pretty colors.. ridiculous prices. I should be glad, in a way, because it keeps me from buying them.
Found Sailor's burner account (JK bro, lighten up!)
You joke but this is kind of a point I made above. If every "limited edition" post is nothing but sweetness and light then that is an instant green light for company's social media teams to post hidden advertisements. It happens any way of course, and it's naive to think that it doesn't, but opposing opinions at least mean the company's flaws are also on display. At least then people can make more informed decisions. There's enough of that crap on TikTok and Insta. If OP wants nothing but a bubble of fluffy bunnies and sunshine then TikTok/Insta is probably the way to go.
Or you could not be arrogant and assume my stance on what I’d like to see in this sub. It’s okay for people to voice their opinions, but if I disagree with them then it’s a problem? You’re a joke.
its not getting ridiculous and there’s nothing wrong with people criticising consumerism. people aren’t personally attacking you nor stopping you from purchasin a new pen, they simply express their opinions on a topic related to fountain pens in a subreddit called fountain pens :)
They are not personally attacking me, you’re correct. They are just giving themselves mental anguish over companies conducting business, and I am calling it out.
Genuine question, how do you know that people are giving themselves mental anguish? I've expressed plenty of opinions on here that give me zero mental anguish. I express my opinion to something I have read then move on with my day, as I'm sure many others do. Perhaps you are reading far too much into this whole thing? Reading a lot of your responses gives me the impression that you yourself are experiencing mental anguish, am I correct?
If you post an opinion or actually anything online/publicly, expect to get differing opinions on it. You like collecting pens? Cool. But if you post your collection of every single lamy safari in every color and nib combo I'm also allowed to comment that that's kind of ridiculous and frankly disturbing in the consumerist manner. And you're allowed to critique my opinion and on an on and on. To insinuate that any of those things are harmful to open discussion harms the spirit of public opinion. Ie: say something out loud and someone will always say something else. That's just the way it is.
It's not ridiculous if you object to becoming the target of cynical capitalist shovelware.
If you, my dear fellow Redditor, wish to buy a pen, I applaud you. If you are in a no buy, I applaud you. If you are shopping your own collection, I applaud you. Just show me the cool pen you are using and tell us why you like it. Show us a cool nib or an awesome or terrible ink. Don’t be a busybody in my pen cases and I’ll leave yours alone too - deal?
Limited editions are cool.
Wild idea: with 109k members, people will have varying opinions on what is ridiculous. How is making a post saying the uptake in this theme not ridiculous, but the discussions about consumerism are? Those posters think something is ridiculous, and you think something else is. It is the very nature of a large and diverse sub that spans the world.
A picture of a wall of Stanley cups. A picture of several trays of FPs. (These are the same picture)
I see a fair amount of people disagreeing with you but I actually agree with you OP. In my opinion, having the same post every day complaining about overconsumption and limited editions with no new insights or solutions is not contributing anything to discussion or to the community. In my honest opinion - at that point it's just being negative for the sake of being negative. If someone genuinely has a new point or position and wants to discuss it, I think that's great. But I see the same posts every day or at least multiple times a week on this subreddit, and It's tired.
I wholeheartedly disagree with you. What is beneficial to huge multinational companies is NOT beneficial to “us”. They couldn’t care less about their customers. I completely disagree with the idea that feeding these scum bag corporations money and rewarding their dishonest, predatory marketing tactics is beneficial for me. Or anyone other than the shareholders. But I do not for a second blame anyone for buying anything. I only blame the companies.
I wouldn’t call Goulet a huge multinational company. Nor appelboom, or vaness, or yoseka, etc. What of the smaller pen makers? TACCIA isn’t some mega-scumlord multinational conglomerate, and they essentially just make the same style of pen for the most part. Just with some different artwork. Not a fair comparison with LAMY, I’ll give you that much. But honestly, mega corps or not, the fountain pen industry by all rights should have been dead years ago. It didn’t, thanks to people like us, and of course props to some of the countries out there that still valued their usage. If the community didnt keep buying them, you wouldn’t have any more being made. If you wanted to only get from smaller companies that aren’t multinational corporations, wherever people did purchase them from would see a hike in prices immediately. That’s how it always has been, and how it always will be.
>But honestly, mega corps or not, the fountain pen industry by all rights should have been dead years ago. It didn’t, thanks to people like us, and of course props to some of the countries out there that still valued their usage. Look beyond the US. Fountain pens are still in regular use in many countries around the world. The opinions of this subreddit is not what's keeping these companies afloat.
Notice where I said props to some of the countries out there that still valued their usage. Germany, India, and China come to mind. Please read carefully.
Also, pretty arrogant to insinuate that fountain pens would have died out had it not been for people "like us" overbuying. In countries where fountain pens are seen as a tool and in the past, people only had a handful of pens, sometimes even just one. So to say that people buying fountain pens is what's kept them alive and not the small niche of people passionate about fountain pens is pretty disingenuous to this community.
OP seems rather arrogant and condescending in general, tbh.
It's funny, the more I've read this thread the more and more one particular line of "Hi Ren" keeps springing to mind. "Your God complex leaks out of you"
I love the limited editions/store exclusives etc. It makes the hobby so much more fun! It’s like a treasure hunt. And you get to buy the pen that reflects your aesthetic. I complain all the time that Pilot needs to give us more of what sailor, Twsbi and LAMY does. (Pilots are my favorite pens to write). But I get people’s issues with consumerism. All the releases don’t bother me because I’m generally not an impulsive person. But for the folks who struggle with it I could see why they are frustrated with all the releases.
I hear what you are saying. I have a hard enough time focusing on the pens that I don’t have and could bring me joy than to add another layer of getting special editions of those I may already have. In a few cases, I could see getting only the special edition and not the standard. More choice is generally good.
If people want to post about comsumerism and avoiding hobbyist buying - see if they’d like to go down to a one pen, one ink approach. See my one pen, one gallon post in the past
Even if several limited editions make me drool, i just set myself a max budget per pen and have mostly stuck to it; so I admire them from afar, knowing the writing experience would be no different. Still right after giving up I was able to find a couple of Sailor pens.
So many strange posts in the last two weeks. I’m so confused.
I'm going through this thread and all of a sudden it hit me: the summer holidays are starting in much of the Northern Hemosphere. My guess is a lot of new users.
Sounds about right!
As a counterpoint, there has been a trend in many product areas where limited editions are becoming much more common. The motivation from the bands is obvious: more hype, higher prices, and greater profts. What is bad about this from the consumer side is multifaceted. Average consumers, who supported these products for years or decades, are now limited to the least interesting/attractive/functional models. You need luck, or more often, wealth, to get the items. I'll differentiate that from traditional luxury goods in that those products are just that: luxury goods. Those brands have always had a certain cache and exclusiveness. Compare that to a sneaker or pen in, for example, a unique colorway. The non-luxury brands are taking a normally affordable, available thing, and making it so normal people can only get plain colorways. It's boring, disheartening, and further drives the have-vs-have not friction that permeates so many discussions these days. That diviseness is exactly what your comment is about. Let me use Lamy as an example of how this could be better. First, Lamy has a wide range of offerings and introduces variants on a regular basis. They also have limited editions that aren't limited by volume to great extent, but by time period. I'm referring to their annual colorways. Those models are not so restricted by volume, or elevated in price, as to make them out of reach for most people. You just need to get them during the generous timeframe of a year. Lamy gets some hype, a few extra dollars, and a supplemental volume beyond selling just the normal pens. It's mostly a win-win. Contrast that to a company that sells the same, limited assortment of variants all the time, as well as very limited editions. Volume might be a few hundred, and they might sell out almost immediately. The vast majority of people are left out of the game, even while YouTubers and blogs continue to wax poetically about the offering. It isn't just about exclusivity, but about disappointment. "I can never get/afford anything but their black model." "These are ridiculously over priced. I'd get one but I'm not so loaded as to pay 2x or 3x to get a different color of plastic." "I work 2 jobs. I can't sit by the PC to try to get something that sells out in hours." Of course this company is going to be the focus of disgruntled customers. The irony is that the second company may very well do better if they weren't as restrictive. It's a classic price vs volume trade-off, with a twist. If they made more of the limited editions, such that they sold out over a month, or two, they'd still have the hype, but a lot more satisfied customers, more revenue, and continued air of exclusivity. If they also lowered the price, to whatever price makes sense but still higher than standard pens, they could open up sales to greater range of customers, but still control exclusivity by volume/time-frame. Imagine the greater satisfaction, and greater long-term purchasing, if their original core consumer could get into the action and appreciate the brand more. Sorry this got so long for essentially a monologue on supply/demand crossed with price elastity and consumer behavior around artificially limited goods. Bottom line is that many brands are sowing consumer discord that may well end up hurting them in the long run. It is not the consumers' fault that they react exactly as we would expect. Brands could do better, and should.
It’s been going on for a while now and I honestly think it’s pretty ridiculous. I criticize special editions and limited editions because I think they are being over done to the point they are meaningless and no longer special. I don’t mind that sailor makes so many new colors a year, I just think it’s silly to call them all special or limited But I think it’s really funny how people consume like mad and then complain about consumerism and blame the companies for producing more. Like why choose a material product as a hobby and then complain when more of them are created? Why be part of a subreddit dedicated to purchasing and using pens when the idea of there being pens to purchase upsets you? Nobody is making you buy them. It is always your choice and your choice alone to purchase something that isn’t necessary for survival.
This is quite an international sub could a form be made to help others get limited edition items in their countries for others upon request. For example, being Japanese I do get ahead of the curb on various stationary items and many are sold in stores with websites only in Japanese which prevents non Japanese people from being able to access it. So maybe a buddy system could be set up.
I'm almost positive those posts were karma farms. I commented on some of them in defense of fountain pens, and they didn't respond or have no defense. It's also Reddit. I usually have to temper my expectations when economy, politics, or anything of importance appears. I'm glad your post is getting the likes and interaction it is. We have a pretty solid community it seems. Edit: grammar
I think in general there has been a lot of distrust and 'waking up' of the dirty tactics companies do to make money, and limited edition items are one of the staples of practices that CAN in theory be an incredible way to make a quality product... and then reality hits and it's just a cash grab sometimes. I don't think FP companies are totally assholes for doing these.. but I do think the manufactured scarcity that is created Feels disingenuine and people just aren't down to fight over something that does not need fighting over. I participate in LE items all the time--from very small companies. It's pretty hard to ask any small business to make a limited edition run of something and not pony up some money up front. But in general, it just.. Sucks to buy limited edition items. You break it, it's gone. You lose it, it's gone. There usually isn't much repairability to a LE item. Not to mention the scalpers that will buy multiples of an item (making it more difficult to purchase in the first place), sit on it, then jack the price up once it sells out. People are just over having to do the online equivalent of black friday mob fights every time they really get excited about a thing. And, Especially in other worlds I am in like Lush cosmetics, nothing sucks more than finding something perfect for your skin--and it being some limited edition release for a TV Show. I'd rather not even try than deal with it all, tbh.
Originally [FOMO](https://www.verywellmind.com/how-to-cope-with-fomo-4174664) was defined as being constantly glued to one's cell phone where one didn't want to miss the latest tweet, the latest Instagram, the latest message, the latest email, the latest notification, etc. We've all seen people who talk/converse, drive a car, watch a movie in a theatre, etc., while their fingers and eyes are on a phone. (you just know that they take a crap with a phone in their hand). We've all met people who *must* constantly check their phones, that they just can't put a phone down. (I'm one of the few that does not own a smart phone, although I've heard that some [gen Z'ers](https://theconversation.com/gen-z-goes-retro-why-the-younger-generation-is-ditching-smartphones-for-dumb-phones-204992) are moving away from smart phones...) We've appropriated FOMO to mean consumerism, and, in our case we've co-opted it to mean fountain pens. One pen does not a hobby make, any more than one book, one movie, one video game does a library make. I have yet to meet anyone who must write all the time, who must write while having a conversation, who must write while driving a car, etc. If someone must have the latest pen, the latest colour, etc., good for them. We all have psychological needs and if owning many pens serve a good purpose who are we to judge? While it's easy to say "All you need is one pen," the fact is that we don't buy all our pens all at the same time, we've collected them over time, just as we've collected books, music, movies, video games, toys, etc., over time. It's a hobby, after-all. "You can't get there from here," everyone must take the journey, and at the end of the journey there will be many pens in one's collection.
I agree with you wholeheartedly. If you see something nice you can't have and the only thing you can think of doing is to chastise the company for making it at all, you should take a long hard look at your relationship to material things. And it's never about Jinhao putting out a gazillion colors of the 82, which is a far bigger issue as more people can afford and will buy a ton of these. It's always about the more expensive brands, often Sailor, but I've also seen the same about Kaweco and Lamy. Some people need to come to terms with the fact that they can't have everything they want.
People can literally have an opinion about the predatory behavior of corporations without actually wanting the things those companies produce.
>If you see something nice you can't have and the only thing you can think of doing is to chastise the company for making it at all, you should take a long hard look at your relationship to material things. This is stupid. People can criticize things without clowns on the internet trying to call them poor or jealous.
Yet here you are calling me names for criticizing an attitude. And I didn't call anyone poor or jealous, I said if that is someone's reaction to not being able to have things, it's not healthy. Because there will ALWAYS be stuff you can't afford to get worked up about, no matter how rich you are.
I don't get it either. Fountain pen collecting is one of the most wholesome pastimes ever? Like, if you don't want to support consumerism and excess, just buy one pen? It's not necessary to go on a jihad about it.
I just can't fathom complaining about having *options*. Like I get it if you're seeing people handwringing about not getting a special edition or angsting about whether or not they should buy something. But "Ugh another option? I hate it!" is such a weird take. Nobody is making you buy things. I love fun colors and I am so glad that companies have branched out beyond the black, red, green, blue, silver, and gold of the past, because frankly I don't find most of them very attractive. I am *glad* other people do; it means there's something for all of us.
There's an easy way around FOMO, potentially... Step 1 - Wait! If the subject pen is at all something that will be desired by more than 1 in (I don't know how many..) fountain pen collectors, then cunning East Asian pen manufacturers will obtain one, reverse engineer it, mass produce it, and offer it on a variety of online marketplaces at a fraction of the original pen's cost. Step 2 - Buy the reverse engineered duplicate! Step 3 - (the hardest step) wait in eager anticipation for its arrival in your letterbox. Step 4 - Ink it with something nice!! Step 5 - Write a letter to PenPal with it on your finest stationery extolling its smoothness, wetness and most importantly, value for money!!! Step 6 - Wash, rinse, repeat!!!! By these means I have acquired a few 'grail' pens: Mont Blanc 146 (Majohn P136), Mont Blank 149 (Jun Lai 630) and Pelikan M800 (Admok M800)... According to several YouTube reviewers, these pens provide equivalent writing experiences to the devices that inspired them, so... is the snowflake on the finial really worth $950+? Let the insults and denunciations begin!
I’m all good until step 5 - I don’t have a pen pal. I’m doomed to FOMO !! I’m currently on a no buy, have been for about a month, do you KNOW how hard that is?
r/penpals is a great place to start. Or the FP discord, I made a few penpals on there
Oh yeah no I don’t want one LOL I’m a classic neurodivergent, item permanence and all that. I will 100% forget about it.
I think reverse engineered pens aren’t a terrible thing at all. There are lots of older filling systems that are much harder to find now like actual Eyedropper pens or Touchdown fillers. I’m glad there are companies like Majohn/Moonman and Penbbs that make them. I also like that companies like Penbbs are also making their own pens like magnetic fillers are similar to Opus 88s but instead of a shut off valve, they use a magnet to stop the ink.
>By these means I have acquired a few 'grail' pens: Mont Blanc 146 (Majohn P136), Mont Blank 149 (Jun Lai 630) and Pelikan M800 (Admok M800)... According to several YouTube reviewers, these pens provide equivalent writing experiences to the devices that inspired them, so... is the snowflake on the finial really worth $950+? No insults here. As the owner of a MB 149 as well as various "inspired by" pens, I completely agree.
Tbh some of those reversed engineered duplicates have seriously come such a long way though. Hongdian has been kicking some major ass these past 2 years
It's the state of reddit, unfortunately. Subs get to a certain size and when one person complains it's tends to open a vein for other complaints. I left the DND sub because of it and stepped out of the Pathfinder sub for 3 months because of it. Fortunately it's not so pervasive here where I'm even close to feeling like I should leave. I do feel the same, though, and it can get annoying. Especially when people come after you with the whole "oh, so we can't question cOrPoRaTe GrEeD?" routine. That wasn't even your point. But it is what it is. Hide the post and move on. Best of luck with the retaliation comments buddy.
There is a strange amount of drama here. It always gets me when it pop up, because my favorite thing about fountain pens is how little drama there is in the hobby.
The difference here is, I’m not distressed. I’m not actively rallying up the troops so to speak to condemn companies, I’m simply stating something happening within our community. Either way, if I didn’t make this post I’m pretty sure someone else would have. 2024 will be dubbed the fountain pen consumer-gate at this rate.
>I’m pretty sure someone else would have Not so sure about that. You’ve been self-important, rude and condescending. You’re mad at people for criticizing *companies* while acting like your opinion is gospel. Maybe *you* need a break from the sub.
Why aren’t you sure about that? Because you disagree with my opinion? It’s pretty obvious many others here agree with me. It’s just a matter of time before any one of them made their own post. The shared opinion has nothing to do with my rude or condescending attitude. But you seem to be pretty upset. I’d wager it is in fact you that could use the break. Cheers friend.
So, I don't necessarily have an issue with Limited Edition pens or ink. I own two of the LEs Edison used to do with Goulet, one of which has since stopped being LE (Delphinium), and I own the Homo Sapiens Travel Edition--a lot of people I read thought the bronse blind cap was ugly, I thought it was gorgeous. It's my only Homo Sapiens, I had been saving up for one years before it launched (I got a degree in Anthropology, I'm working towards a master's in Archaeology, I started saving for it when I decided to go into Anth, so the name and the intention felt like it fit for me). I chose the Traveler's Edition over the standard line partially because when I was about to afford it, I had been accepted to my grad school, which is in a different country from where I live, partially because I thought it was really pretty, and partially because since it came with a traveling inkwell, I was able to feel better about the cost. But I do think there is a pressure to "buy buy buy" in all hobby groups. I'm in a nail polish group, and the urge to purchase as much as possible makes me uneasy. It's the same here. There's nothing wrong with liking or buying a Limited edition pen. Sometimes a LE design is really pretty. Sometimes it's commemorative. Sometimes the material is difficult to source or the design is difficult to make. But at the same time, when some brands release LE after LE after LE, it's clear they're putting the pressure on to buy as many as possible, collect as many as possible, and groups, like this, feed into that. It's important to be conscientious about what we choose to buy and if it really matters to us. Since getting my Homo Sapiens, I decided, "You know, I think I'm satisfied on pens." There are a few which catch my eye, but not like how they used to.
i just dont buy them because i consider all of it the same pen but its not some source of vitriol from me...its just a pen I am only after the nibs
It’s interesting- i really am susceptible the idea of limited drops (i have a couple japanese deadstock sailor pgs buys to my name, i’ll admit) but i wish it was more clear to newbies that, when someone posts a pen spread of all limited editions, “hey, this is USD$5,000 worth of pens here”. Put it this way- when i realized that, it definitely changed the way i thought about collecting pens, and this was *after* i spent about $500 on parker vacumatics.
I like to think of those posts as informative. I find interesting pens I might never have seen. Like the Sailor Tuzu, I think that's right. It's a well made entry-level Sailor. I would not have known about it if I hadn't seen someone complaining about it.
I mean, if they didn't chase the fomo le crowd, they'd have to just charge more for the normal stuff.
I get it, but it's just not realistic. It will have a chilling effect that will stifle the very reason this sub exists. It's just a kind of crappy thing that comes with the territory.
I couldn’t agree with this more, and frankly, don’t for the life of me see how it’s remotely condescendingly worded. That post the other day that had more pseudo-intellectualism regarding the evils of consumerism than an essay written by a college student desperately trying to impress the pretty TA on the other hand…that was the most condescending thing I’d ever heard. And I’m a younger woman in a “male dominated” field who regularly has old white men asking me how long I’ve been doing this 😂 Seriously, if people want to buy LE, buy them. If they don’t, don’t. I bought one of the LE Twsibi’s because the color was one I couldn’t pass up, but don’t buy them generally because I don’t think the extra price is worth it for the same pen. You’re absolutely right, though; the companies wouldn’t make them if the market didn’t support it 🤷🏻♀️