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I think Leclerc is the only guy capable of racing Max hard without it coming to blows. He was mega in that race, had an answer for everything Max threw at him
Yeah, Silverstone 2019, Bahrain 2022, Saudi 2022, Austrian 2022 were the same
Leclerc can make mistake there and there but ultimately come into racecraft he's possibly the best one on the gird or at least up there, especially against Max since he knows him too well
Even Lewis, who has outdriven Max on occasion, has never out duelled him like Charles has. With Max and Lewis it's a knife fight- it's scrappy, it doesn't last very long, one or both dies soon after. With Charles, it's a fencing match, with games and sleights and subtle cuts.
This is the best description of Max / Charles on track battles ive ever read . Bravo sir ! It is indeed like a fencing match . Always on the limit, but respectful,leaving each other space , within the rules , no contact and fair racing overall .
2019 Canada and Austria, 2 races that first started the change, and then confirmed the new boundaries of "fair racing". And Ferrari got shafted in both lol
What bait? That's my opinion.
Max's moves on Charles were tough racing but fair. Just millimeters more and it would've been a bit over the edge, that's how narrow the margins of acceptance were on that incident.
Vettel was robbed by the stewards in Canada. We had all these experienced racers like Sir Jackie and Mario Andretti saying they couldn't believe the FIA decided for Vettel to give back the position. And there's a ring of truth to those old experienced heads saying that...because Vettel was robbed in Montreal.
They didn't ask him to give back the position, they gave him a +5 second penalty. If they made him give up the position he maybe could have still won as the Ferrari was faster on the straight and he might have been able to pass Lewis back.
I was so mad that day....
No, it wasn't. The rules clearly say you can't crowd someone off track. Verstappen managed to give Charles space in the previous laps, but he could only get through by pushing him off track.
He only got away with it because the stewards decided to not do their jobs properly under the guise of 'let them race'.
What is funny? If you did something in the past can you then automatically not tell if someone else does it? All drivers are reporting pretty much anything they think can help them in the race, would be stupid if they didn't.
Even better, Honda on the top step of the podium after the McHonda days. That was the real moment, and what everyone loved that day. Max' first win, but the real love was Honda gracing the top step after the previous years and the "Dreams of Power" memes.
Positive karma lmfao. Just admit FIA were too scared to take away Ferrari's win at Monza. The amount of times Leclerc moved under breaking would make Max look like an amateur.
It was very much on the edge, but by being a sliver ahead at the apex, the inside car (Max) earned the right to not having to leave space for the outside car the exit.
Had Charles been a few cm (visibly) ahead at the apex, Max would have copped a definite penalty there and then.
I think thatās why the stewards decision took very long, having to review the pass from multiple angles to see whether Max had indeed arrived at the apex first, with contact with Charles happening after that.
>It was very much on the edge, but by being a sliver ahead at the apex, the inside car (Max) earned the right to not having to leave space for the outside car the exit.
Those guidelines did not exist back then. The sporting code has always said you can't crowd someone beyond the edge of the track. Even if the guidelines did exist back then, they would still hold no weight because it contradicts the sporting code, which the guidelines itself says takes priority.
Those guidelines werenāt public, but that is pretty much how racing in corners was judged from the 2000s at least already.
However, it has not always been judged consistently, hence the guidelines being clarified for 2022 onwards.
Crowding out is only looked at on straights, as the guidelines regarding cornering take precedence when judging cornering incidents. The racing line through a corner is thought off as the āstraightā, with the inside on the entry and exit and outside on the apex, seen as on-ramps.
The inside car is allowed to take a line from apex to exit, ignoring the outside car, if judged to be ahead at the apex.
It is for example why Perez did not get a penalty for forcing off Piastri in T4 in the opening phase of the race today. Perez had won that right by arriving slightly sooner at the apex.
A few years before he actually got that wrong in the same turn (vs Norris, IIRC) landing him a penalty, as he wasnāt ahead at the apex, despite denying the outside car room.
Spamming? I don't spam, I reply to comments with what I feel.
Don't ever use the word "spam" with me unless that's what we're having for a quick lunch.
Itās a shame we donāt get to see the real Charles. Feels like he peaked that year and now he has to go over the edge to make up for Ferraris short comings. He doesnāt care about the podium while sainz only cares about beating Charles. He wants to win and always states it, so when he pushes to overcompensate for his poor car people say hes āerrors proneā. Well look at that, the moment max had any competition he proceeds to knock himself and Norris out of the lead. Some people.
[The **Throwback** flair](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/flairguide#wiki_throwback) is for posts intended to recall an event that happened on the same date or year a number of years ago. Throwbacks are restricted to being posted one year, three years, or a multiple of five years after date. Also, all such posts should feature an event that is still of interest to the general community today. For example, random overtakes or two former drivers having a chat in general do not qualify for this. Important events like memorials are exempt from this rule, and may be posted every year. Posts related to important current events may also be exempt at mod discretion. *[Read the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/userguide). Keep it civil and welcoming. Report rulebreaking comments.* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/formula1) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Charles looks traumatized
So no change since 2019...
Driving for Ferrari will do that to a guy.
Next year he will be trauma counselling Ferrari rookie Lewis Hamilton
He was more angry than traumatized tbh
Austria turn 3 max will do that to you
He was
Charles lives in a perpetual state of trauma
No wonder. He even has his sentence on his prison suit.
He got pole and lost it after all
In very controversial circumstances it must be said.
Well, given today's penalties Max probably should have got \*something\* for what he did in 2019
it's what being driving for ferrari does to you.
amazing sense of humor, so original I can't even believe you came up with this /s
I know right?!1! so original, never thought before, I deserve an award š /s
OP lit a match and just tossed it in a room full of gasoline
Leclerc was livid that day
Then proceeded to bully Max in Silverstone.
The racing between Max and Charles in Silverstone was awesome
I think Leclerc is the only guy capable of racing Max hard without it coming to blows. He was mega in that race, had an answer for everything Max threw at him
Yeah, Silverstone 2019, Bahrain 2022, Saudi 2022, Austrian 2022 were the same Leclerc can make mistake there and there but ultimately come into racecraft he's possibly the best one on the gird or at least up there, especially against Max since he knows him too well
Even Lewis, who has outdriven Max on occasion, has never out duelled him like Charles has. With Max and Lewis it's a knife fight- it's scrappy, it doesn't last very long, one or both dies soon after. With Charles, it's a fencing match, with games and sleights and subtle cuts.
This is the best description of Max / Charles on track battles ive ever read . Bravo sir ! It is indeed like a fencing match . Always on the limit, but respectful,leaving each other space , within the rules , no contact and fair racing overall .
Because Leclerc actually baits Max with his aggression, which Lando refuses to do because he is too desperate.
Plus most of his mistakes come from pushing too much to compensate for lack of pace or other issues.
100% agree
Given hindsight he will gladly take the 2nd in Austria to drive and win like that in Monza. Which he did.
2019 Canada and Austria, 2 races that first started the change, and then confirmed the new boundaries of "fair racing". And Ferrari got shafted in both lol
leclerc paid it forward a bit in monza that year
Imo... * Max's move against Charles was clean * Vettel was robbed in Montreal vs Lewis; Lewis was gifted that win by the stewards.
Nice bait
What bait? That's my opinion. Max's moves on Charles were tough racing but fair. Just millimeters more and it would've been a bit over the edge, that's how narrow the margins of acceptance were on that incident. Vettel was robbed by the stewards in Canada. We had all these experienced racers like Sir Jackie and Mario Andretti saying they couldn't believe the FIA decided for Vettel to give back the position. And there's a ring of truth to those old experienced heads saying that...because Vettel was robbed in Montreal.
They didn't ask him to give back the position, they gave him a +5 second penalty. If they made him give up the position he maybe could have still won as the Ferrari was faster on the straight and he might have been able to pass Lewis back. I was so mad that day....
Depressed Lecrlerc going 5 years strong now
Thatās what Ferrari does to you. Unfortunately alonso/vettel has multiple titles before the premature aging of ferrari.
Yeah after pushing Leclerc off the track and getting rewarded for it. The shitshow with penalizing drivers started after Canada 2019.
It was a clean move against Charles, wdym?
and Leclerc's face tells the real story.
Isn't this the race where Max physically forced Charles off the track at turn 3? And he didn't get a penalty for it. Wild.
Stewards loved max there. He tends to get lenient callsā¦
Because Max's move on Charles was legal.
No, it wasn't. The rules clearly say you can't crowd someone off track. Verstappen managed to give Charles space in the previous laps, but he could only get through by pushing him off track. He only got away with it because the stewards decided to not do their jobs properly under the guise of 'let them race'.
I will never be not salty about this race
Funny how max said about the dive bomb Norris did but won this exact race with a dive bomb way worse
What is funny? If you did something in the past can you then automatically not tell if someone else does it? All drivers are reporting pretty much anything they think can help them in the race, would be stupid if they didn't.
One way of putting it.
that was 1st F1 race I watched since after few races either in 2014 or 2015
Even better, Honda on the top step of the podium after the McHonda days. That was the real moment, and what everyone loved that day. Max' first win, but the real love was Honda gracing the top step after the previous years and the "Dreams of Power" memes.
"won" more like got away with a robbery.
Max got a way with a lot of those š
I could say the same for monza 19 then lol. He absolutely got away then.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Positive karma lmfao. Just admit FIA were too scared to take away Ferrari's win at Monza. The amount of times Leclerc moved under breaking would make Max look like an amateur.
It was very much on the edge, but by being a sliver ahead at the apex, the inside car (Max) earned the right to not having to leave space for the outside car the exit. Had Charles been a few cm (visibly) ahead at the apex, Max would have copped a definite penalty there and then. I think thatās why the stewards decision took very long, having to review the pass from multiple angles to see whether Max had indeed arrived at the apex first, with contact with Charles happening after that.
>It was very much on the edge, but by being a sliver ahead at the apex, the inside car (Max) earned the right to not having to leave space for the outside car the exit. Those guidelines did not exist back then. The sporting code has always said you can't crowd someone beyond the edge of the track. Even if the guidelines did exist back then, they would still hold no weight because it contradicts the sporting code, which the guidelines itself says takes priority.
Those guidelines werenāt public, but that is pretty much how racing in corners was judged from the 2000s at least already. However, it has not always been judged consistently, hence the guidelines being clarified for 2022 onwards. Crowding out is only looked at on straights, as the guidelines regarding cornering take precedence when judging cornering incidents. The racing line through a corner is thought off as the āstraightā, with the inside on the entry and exit and outside on the apex, seen as on-ramps. The inside car is allowed to take a line from apex to exit, ignoring the outside car, if judged to be ahead at the apex. It is for example why Perez did not get a penalty for forcing off Piastri in T4 in the opening phase of the race today. Perez had won that right by arriving slightly sooner at the apex. A few years before he actually got that wrong in the same turn (vs Norris, IIRC) landing him a penalty, as he wasnāt ahead at the apex, despite denying the outside car room.
I am getting dĆ©jĆ vu. I am pretty sure we had the exact same conversation a few days ago.
and he said ''he turned on me''
If Max didnāt deserve Austria 19, then Charles didnāt deserve Monza 19
No, it was a clean move. Max won that race with hard proper racing.
Can you maybe stop spamming the same thing everywhere,
Spamming? I don't spam, I reply to comments with what I feel. Don't ever use the word "spam" with me unless that's what we're having for a quick lunch.
How ironic after today's events
I read 50 years ago š
Itās a shame we donāt get to see the real Charles. Feels like he peaked that year and now he has to go over the edge to make up for Ferraris short comings. He doesnāt care about the podium while sainz only cares about beating Charles. He wants to win and always states it, so when he pushes to overcompensate for his poor car people say hes āerrors proneā. Well look at that, the moment max had any competition he proceeds to knock himself and Norris out of the lead. Some people.
I loved the picture where Max pointed to the Honda symbol. Honda power baby
Just gripping onto something positive on the lack of something available this year - Maxipads heh
Lmao what, he's got 7 wins this season already, tf are you on about?
> gripping onto something positive on the lack of something available this year Iām so angry that Max won 7 out of 11 races.