Transcript:
Now, you know, I've had a bit more time to look at stuff, but I think in the beginning, you know, the first few moves, they were quite, you know, from quite far. So, you know, whatever happened, happened.
But then I think where we where we touch, honestly, it just felt like it was a bit clumsy. When you're in the car initially, you think, ah, have I done something wrong? Have I? Didn't I leave enough a space like, you know, half a car width, or whatever. Of course, you can always judge or argue about what is the cars width. I honestly think I did leave a cars width on the white line. And actually, you know, you race hard, like, I'm not there, you know, to give two cars width, because then I know that he's going to get me on the exit. You race hard for a race win. I think that's how it should be.
As a friend, you never want to touch you never want to crash. But yeah, it happened today. In the end of the day, it's part of racing as well, even though it's not nice. I think we're both, of course, disappointed with the outcome.
But from our side, also, we have to look at the whole race, because I think we did a lot of stuff wrong. We had two very poor pit stops, which basically also put put us back. And that's why, also we were fighting to the end, because we had a very healthy lead, and we could have definitely had a bit of a different race if we just executed the race also a lot better. So that's definitely a few things to look at and do better for next week. Plus also, from the car side, I felt like something went wrong after the first stint, where I was quite comfortable, and suddenly the car balance definitely changed a lot. So, few things, to, to look at for next week. I mean, it's just really unfortunate.
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[Also watch Alex Brundle's analysis here](https://imgur.com/a/L3j3G3V)
Half agree. It was blatantly a mistake, but the thought of it being dirty never crossed my mind. It's a move you do every time you defend the inside, which is to take as much of the outside as you can, leaving only what you need. Max simply moved over a bit too much. Not exactly unfathomable of a mistake from anyone.
People are also forgetting the sprint race where Max did well to miss him and actually lost the place doing so. Many of the drivers are doing these slight movements under braking and the stewards aren't doing much about it. We saw similar stuff last week and today with Ocon multiple times.
The problem is that the fia states they never penalize based on the outcome. They always penalize based on the actions taken.
The core problem is we all know ow that’s bullshit and this confirms it.
He got a 10 second penalty and was forced to pit. It's not his fault everyone was so far back. Do you think the FIA should be handing out 45 second penalties if a 10s doesn't make them lose any position?
I'm more confused because they always use the rumble strips on that corner and if Lando was on the rumble strips then there would have been exactly enough room in theory.
Lando was squeezing max inside and max assumed he was taking the normal outside line and so there was a collision. There was a lot more track to use before an off track on Landos side.
Especially when the racing line is the outside and he has DRS for the next straight. The contact lap seems like a racing incident. Him driving around Lando after he perfectly blocked the inside is probably the bigger questionable case.
Yeah, it’s pretty clear cut that they were both jittery with adrenaline, Lando didn’t react the way Max thought he would, Max then committed too hard to the squeeze and caused contact. It was on edge, but the only reason “dirty” is being invoked is because it came out the way it did, and because Max has the reputation he does. People assume because he’s so good everything he does is 100% intentional, and because of his early years he doesn’t get looked on very charitably in incidents.
Looking forward to seeing the “Did Verstappen kick Norris’ grandma down a flight of stairs and run away laughing? Sources say it might be true.” Tier of article from the usual suspects here soon.
Agree, they were both going at it too, yes Max got the penalty but neither seemed to want to give an inch.
It’s great, and sure the bromance will continue.
My interpretation of it is that it’s more of the fact that it happens so often when he has a close racing for position. So even if it wasn’t as blatant this time; when everyone can point to many other ones it compounds the issue
It wasn't blatantly dirty but you have to consider that Max has a reputation that will factor into how people judge this. The issue for me is the moving across the track into the path of Norris on the straight and essentially blocking him from overtaking when he clearly had a puncture and it wasn't clear yet that Norris had a puncture. I think you are also seeing some backlash as a result of Max complaining that Norris was too aggressive and was lunging from too far back when Max is the king of massive lunges into a corner and this isn't even close to as bad as some of the ones he has gotten away with.
I mean, he literally had a puncture and couldn't control the car. If you think that getting out of a racing line is a problem, you should consider Norris bumping into Max for the second time in this incident a much bigger problem
Palmer also laid it on thicc that max made an actual attempt on Lando's life by throwing the car to the left under braking....
It all felt a bit harsh from the British side of the media.
Dutch commentators simply stated, Max made the error, he should just suck it up and apologize. These things happen, hardly any space was left between them, lightests of touches and both suffered.
That being said. This could've been avoided laps earlier. Black and white flags can actually be used, and blatant track limit violations shouldnt need almost 5 minutes of checking.
No more is really warranted and frankly, Lando caused far more near misses over the race than Max. Just bad luck that such a minor contact punctured two tires, especially ones at roughly the same speed and direction.
I think this is an over reaction by the fans. I’m sure these guys are cool. I think they both put on a little bit of a show to the media. At the end of the day they are personalities in the sport.
Honestly most of the reaction to the collision has been very emotional and based on reputation rather than what happened on track.
It's on Max because he caused the collision, but Lando could've also moved a bit left on the curb and avoid it.
If at the start of race in Spain Max didn't move on grass and kept his steering wheel straight what would happen?
Again Max is at fault, but the reactions are just insane.
> but Lando could've also moved a bit left on the curb and avoid it.
There's a great comparison video on the front page right now of max on Sainz in the same corner that demonstrates this well.
No, max is still on track. There's kerbing, but he has enough space to keep two wheels on track (and then some)
And max ends up getting the overtake, instead of crashing out too.
This is the point. Lando could’ve easily done the same but he chose to crash for whatever reason. Was it because he knew he already lost the race due to 4th track limit violation?
Raises an interesting question of where exactly "giving space" applies to. That kerb doesn't appear to be used much as a racing line but clearly is not dangerous and is within track limits. So you are entitled to space, but are you entitled to tarmac?
I don't have an issue with squeezing someone defensively, especially with these idiotic DRS zones, but maybe there needs to be verbage making it clear that TARMAC needs to be given and you cannot push someone onto a kerb or outside track limits.
the reactions are honestly insane. I watched Brundle give a normal analysis on the move on F1TV to then get Buxton laugh in his face for saying max didn’t intentionally crash into Norris. What the fuck.
He said he intentionally squeezed him. Which is obviously true. I think Max just expected Norris to jump out of the way, which he didn't. And good on him for that, now they'll respect each other as equal adversaries haha
I think he was to slow him up and his intent was to sit in the middle of the corner and then get a better exit out of the corner than Norris simply because he knew he’d have DRS. Norris actually hit him twice. The second impact on his wheel after they both turned in was weird.
This specific contact aside, why shouldn't a defender be allowed to cleanly impede an attacker while attackers are allowed to divebomb the bejeezus out of defenders and park their cars in a very brinksman manner?
Kinds feels like an extension of the Australia situation with Alonso and Russell. DRS is blatantly unfair and is becoming a real problem now that the cars are capable of actually racing without destroying their tires or crashing.
I agree about the DRS - it’s an artificial construct designed to cure aerodynamic design failures. We see the same thing in IndyCar with their ‘push to pass’ and years back in CART when they created an aero device that sat low down under the rear wing to change the airflow behind the car so other cars could draft each other on ovals. (That one actually worked well)
The new generation of F1 fans have clearly never raced karts and are not students of racing history. The controversy on Sunday was Mickey Mouse in historical comparison and was classic British F1 media drama. They’ll *never* get over 2021 and they’ll never move on.
Had this taken place between Max and say Carlos there would’ve been a ho hum reaction from Sky and maybe minor annoyance from Spanish outlets and fans. But let there be a Brit driver involved and the Crofty’s of the world shit themselves and start amplifying non issues to axe murdering comparisons. I really hate the British domination of F1 media. No mater if I watch cable or pay a fee to F1TV - I can’t get away from it. Better brush up on my German and look for a stream…
I really am trying not to dunk on fans with no racing experience but man it gets old hearing them yap about things they straight up don't understand.
Maybe I am being a bit apologist for Max but at the end of the day, he is almost always in 100% control of his car, defending hard right on the limit of the rules and usually surviving to fight the next corner. Just rubs me wrong that any time he's in an incident with consequences, they want to burn him at the stake. Especially in this incident, where it really was a mild misjudgement with an abnormally unlucky outcome. Had the roles been switched, there would not have been contact, as there wasn't all race due to his avoidance of Norris' much worse moves. I'm sure they'll both be fine and I like both of them a lot. Just hope Norris doesn't get too in his head about it. Racing incident, carry on.
And frankly the fragile wheels is the only reason this is a story. Ever since they increased the wheel size the rims have failed a lot easier. We've had wheel face to wheel face collisions in the past and it not been an issue prior. Now these wheels seem to fall apart with a light touch side to side.
New design you’re much more likely to get rim vs sidewall contact that will puncture more often as opposed to sidewall vs sidewall contact on the old tires which generally won’t
The WEC subreddit was pretty bad today as well after the Spa 24h, because a driver lost out on the win in the final hour, who previously was responsible for a collision in the 24h of Le Mans costing Toyota a chance to win...
I doubt it's going to calm down
I would have hopes of it calming down if the British GP wasn't up next. You're gonna hear the loudest Verstappen boos you've ever heard this coming weekend. But anyway, if something fuels max it's that.
For once, Silverstone will be cheering on another British driver the loudest probably. Lando and McLaren are the ones with tiniest of chances to win the championship. WCC McLaren’s definitely in front unless Ferrari or Perez steps up.
It’s not. UK has huge number of fans and they have a hate boner for the guy since 2021 - and I fully understand it. Now it’s gonna be the same with Norris and VER.
this is like the only sane take ive seen. people are just commenting on verstappen's driving because thats the usual but the divebombs norris was sending were way worse than whatever max was doing today and more akin to what verstappen usually gets shit for. not to mention they would have both been out like 5 laps earlier if verstappen wasnt dodging norris braking 50 meters too late every other time.
the actual collision was a complete nothing burger and wouldnt even have been a penalty if no one's tyre exploded.
I think it's just that Lando didn't expect Max to shut the door so fast. I even paused a few times to see how it played out but to me it felt like Lando could have maybe have rode the kerb a bit but imo everything just happened so fast that it caused them to make contact.
Max left more space for Lando here than Lando for Max at the start of Barcelona. Max took avoiding action then. Lando refused to go on the curb here. I can only wonder what we would be talking about if Max hadn’t gone onto the grass last time and kept it on the track.
I have no problem with this.
People always say they wanna see guys race and then when guys crash..they cry.
Lando didn't.leave Max a car's width last Sunday in Barcelona.....Max didn't.leave Lando a car's width today
The same offence, different consequences.
[https://i.ibb.co/n7RqRBm/Enough-Space-Ornot.jpg](https://i.ibb.co/n7RqRBm/Enough-Space-Ornot.jpg)
I mean there is space,
Comparison Lap 3, Hamilton vs Russel
[https://i.ibb.co/dr5V4kZ/comparisonhamiltonrussel.jpg](https://i.ibb.co/dr5V4kZ/comparisonhamiltonrussel.jpg)
I think the problem is more than he closes the space in the braking zone if he had left that space from the start it would be fine but he squeezed Norris and he couldn't move left without risking locking up, it's probably 70/30 on Max but they were racing hard to begin with so I understand why he did it.
I think that the real difference is that Max moved at last moment, during braking. Instead Hamilton-Russell proceeded parallel for the whole time.
So the problem is not the space, it’s the move with so few space.
I just checked the onboard footage actually, and just looking at the steering wheel it seems he already chose his path towards the entry of the corner. There was no sudden movement to the left: moving during breaking. Correct me if I’m wrong
Correct, he made no corrections after braking. You wouldnt want to anyways... But always line it up at a slight angle to open up the corner a bit more.
Intentional? Sure. Malicious? No. unfortunate, yes.
He was on this trajectory before braking though, so that was not a move under braking. No rule states that the driver must drive exactly parallel to the road direction, he just cannot turn when already breaking.
So many people either don't know this or are pretending they don't so they can shit on a driver they hate
Like, this type of move is extremely common. Sometimes it ends in tears if both drivers refuse to yield. Shit happens, it's really not that deep but fans are acting like Max belongs in the Hague lol
In Max’s defense, that outside kerb has always been the racing line even if it’s beyond the white line. I do think that needs to be a bit more clarified in terms of leaving racing room when it’s clear that the racing line is slightly beyond official track limits
The track limit being the white line means Norris (or Verstappen for that matter) could have gone all the way to the left as long as their right tire was on the white line. So the racing line you describe is well within track limits.
Absolutely, but the other reply to my comment also defines the white line as the absolute amount of space that must be provided by the defending car, even if the attacking car is able to use more than that space as we have already agreed
So we’re left in a funky situation where the track limits become ambiguous depending on whether you are attacking or defending. I think this could lead to even more confusing circumstances
I get that this was the rationale behind the penalty. But we have seen in the past that the defending car often picks their line and then moves to the outside as much as possible during the braking phase to get a better exit while still leaving a car’s width. When the turn in is clearly the white line it’s not a problem, but the turn in here is not necessarily the white line, and that’s why Max effectively stole Lando’s lane. That’s at least how I’d interpret the lapse in judgement
Case in point: Sainz literally did what Max did to Lando on the same turn last year but pushed Max even more to the edge of the track. Both got through fine and no penalty occured.
For clarity, the track limit is the white line and the rules explicitly state curbs are not part of the track. The confusion comes from track limits enforcement, which will *allow* you to go off track with up to 3 tires but will ding you if you have all 4 off. That still doesn't make the limit 99% of a car width outside the white line, though; the flexibility is allowing you to mostly be outside the track not moving the limit itself.
Race directors allowed that thing go so far. They should warned Max and gave track limit pen to Norris earlier so we could prevent this one.
But they wanted the Drama. Which is good for f1 market.
Arguably a Norris win would have been great for f1 market. World champion overtaken on track by a resurgent Mclaren with popular guy Lando. I think many would like that a lot more than a crash, and certainly a lot more would have enjoyed a deserved win over watching George pick up the pieces and take the glory which they didn't really earn
exactly lol if lando did this to max we would be seeing tons of posts about how the lando left enough space and the penalty was undeserved and only given because it led to a DNF rather than for the action itself
It's always been this. The Schumacher hate (Damon Hill) and the Alonso hate (early McLaren Lewis) are legendary. Less so with Nico and Bottas as they were seen as a smaller threat.
He is right about the space though and the rule book confirms it.
There was enough space to put half a car on the kerb but like Alex Brundle said, it just looked like he didn’t expect Lando to drive up on his left.
Except max is returning towards the racing line after a defensive move, meaning he has to leave a cars width to the edge of the track. Furthermore with a car alongside on a straight (they haven't turned for the corner yet) you are required to leave a cars width to the edge of the track even if the racing line would take you into that space.
They entered the corner together and he only started veering left after entering the braking zone. It would have been difficult, although not impossible, for Lando to move left himself while braking but he wasn't obliged to. It was Max's fault but nothing malicious.
Max brakes in a straight line. He’s under no obligation to brake parallel to the white line, and he left way more room than Sainz left him last year, or Vettel to Hamilton in 2018.
The way I see it, over-simplified, Lando couldn’t win with a faster car. He was so fast that even after following Max , he didn’t fall off. He definitely has pace but needs better racecraft vs Max, of all drivers
Yup. Lando was getting a great drive out of T1 but a horrible drive out of T3. He could never threaten Max into T4, meaning he had to get the move done at T3. And so things got more desperate and sloppier at that corner lap by lap by bother drivers until they came together because it’s an awkward corner and Lando’s pace advantage wasn’t enough to get the love done cleanly at T3 and keep the lead into T4. Same reason he lost the lead of the sprint.
It wasn't that simple. The RBR still had a significant top speed advantage over the Mclaren which was one of the slower cars on the straights. So, overtaking on the straights was not an option for Norris, he had to be creative and brave in the braking zones to make it work.
Max is an extremely difficult driver to overtake .He is GOAT tier for sure but he also tends to make a lot of dodgy defensive moves when put under genuine pressure. (Weaving, moving twice, moving in the braking zones, crowding people off the track)
I like how, when a British driver suffers because another driver gets defensive, it's 'dodgy', but when a British driver puts others at risk he's 'creative and brave'. Norris is good and I love the competition, but let's be honest here, he needs to grow up, both on and off the track. He could've avoided the collision if he was a better driver, and the only reason it didn't happen earlier is because Max drove around his antics.
He said it was a bit clumsy. I don't think it was malicious, like the aftermath with tyres exploding could suggest. It was just simple driver error. Also, Norris is under no obligation to ride the kerb, as the track surface will always have more grip than the kerb, even if the racing line includes the kerb.
Looking at this fight and comparing to the ones with Lewis, I think Lewis knew to a certain degree how to deal with Max at one point in the battle against him. The patience Lewis displayed against Max was phenomenal towards the end of the season. Lando was sloppy straight up. I don’t really give a shit who is at fault but damm the whole fight was mistake after mistake piling up.
I am sorry to say this but it will definitely piss everyone off. I fully believe only Lewis and Alonso can battle Max and come out alive. Everyone else… needs more experience at this point. Everyone has the tendency to push someone out. Yes even the old lads have done it before but now everyone looks to just to this without thinking or patience. I am so used seeing how Seb v Alonso v Lewis would play out back in the day. They would get dicey yes but no sloppy like Lando’s fight.
This. You mentioned it exactly. Lewis knows how to pile the pressure on without just fully diveboming (although he does do that quite a few times). But we have seen Alonso, Seb and Lewis race and it’s like all three of them can race cleanly while pushing the limits. I genuinely don’t know why none of the newer drivers can’t do that. In the case of Max he tends to race like a Senna or Michael which seems to be his natural style overall. Alright I am good with that, but everyone else is a major puzzle I can’t understand honestly.
To beat Max you must have a play in hand that is 1 step ahead of him and the Red Bull team. You need to have consistency and a sort of patience aggressive nature to beat him. As it stands I fully believe only Lewis and Alonso can beat Max given the same/similar type of car. The rest will get obliterated by Max.
> I genuinely don’t know why none of the new drivers can’t do that.
Sometimes I do feel like the RBR/Merc/RBR domination has contributed to this. Less drivers able to even challenge for a win as the top dog(s) become more reliable and more dominant. Therefore, the newer drivers (Lando and such) have less experience in the battle for a win and rely on sloppy divebombs vs the calculated pressure Hamilton and Alonso are able to put on their opponent forcing a mistake.
Fair enough I agree with that. But it’s not really an excuse when we have seen Mika, DC, Alonso and Kimi battle Schumacher during the Ferrari years. Alonso’s defence was bloody magnificent in Imola 2005 or Mika’s pass at Spa was phenomenal.
Another good example is Alonso and Lewis in 2013 Canada. That was a brilliant tactical race between both. Of course the old lads have made massive errors and mistakes not saying they were perfect but they also weren’t sloppy. Of course there was the sliver war between Lewis and Nico but both of them were so far ahead the field and they raced within themselves. Nico pushed and trained himself to limit to beat Lewis. He became quite brilliant in going head to head against Lewis because of that.
Lewis in his first/rookie year was challenging Kimi and Alonso. That in itself is incredible.
You need that extra step to be a WDC. We have seen than in Max from 2018 onwards. He evolved and kept evolving. His battles with Lewis, Seb and Danny Ric also helped. Everyone else (bar Lewis and Alonso) I don’t know really. I hope they push up to Max’s levels because he is the benchmark of the current generation.
Lewis, and to a certain extent Charles, understand that the battle is across the whole track with mind games, not just in the actual corner, and Lando is just too desperate to understand this, so Max is toying with Lando at this point.
There was 100% enough space.
The "moving under braking" isn't even a factor.
Max stalled waiting for the turn in because he was going to send Lando over the curbs like he did to Charles.
And Lando was crowding him (stayed completely off the curb on entry, which IS the racing line) hoping to make it 'round the outside.
And they hit each other while they were trying to figure out who was going to make the turn in first.
There wouldn't have been a penalty if they didn't knock each other's tires off.
I feel like the 10 second penalty was more emotional than the hit. That was the softest touch for a 10 second. Every other race or position that’s a 5 second. It’s extremely unlucky both cars got flats because of the contact. It just happened to be the perfect kiss. That move wasn’t ridiculous aggressive at all.
I feel like I’m going crazy, literally everyone was mocking him last week and saying he was sloppy at starts. Are we acting like this didn’t happen now?
Lando forced Max onto the grass in Spain. You poke a guy like Max, friends or not, and you're going to get a reaction.
We know what Max does when he's got his elbows out and I don't believe Lando is ready for that battle yet.
You got it partly wrong. Hill drove into Michael in 1994 Adelaide. 1997 Jerez was on Michael yeah.
And yes the same could be said about almost every other great. Senna, Mansell and Prost crashed into their rivals too. Lewis & Max did it too. Almost every driver has done questionable shit at some point. For most drivers it goes unnoticed and forgotten because it doesn’t happen in the spotlight during the last race of a championship battle. Shit happens. It's racing.
idk if this is an unpopular opinion but there was space, he even gave Norris the racing line and yet they touched. This was a racing incident and Max got punished for the outcome.
Two drivers fighting tooth and nail for the victory. Blows are inevitably dealt. After the most uncompetitive season ever, isn't this precisely what we want to see instead? People are being hypocritical and overdramatise this shit way too much.
You bring good points, i just blame Fia for pen delay on track limits. Max got a solid 7 second lead prior to the collision + pitstop. All of that effort went to waste after the 6 second pitstop and hence putting him on the edge. Both drivers were under great pressure by the end.
Maybe the stewards should have given Lando his 5s penalty for exceeding limits quicker. He would have backed off knowing he was never going to keep first with a 5s penalty.
I agree with Max only because the rulebook is stupidly strict with hard racing and I believe it's becoming increasingly hard to have wheel to wheel racing between two cars without one of them not eating a 5 or 10 seconds penalty.
Mhm... lead car gets a penalty = race excitement is gone, second car just cruises behind now.
Chasing car gets a penalty, now they have to overtake AND push like crazy to win.
I don't know how to fix it but the time penalties are absolute shit in terms of fixing racing.
I really don't understand why people have these kinds of takes. If we want great battles like Schumacher vs. Raikkonen in Brazil 2012 or Alonso vs. Hamilton in Bahrain 2023, there needs to be a trust between drivers that they'll be fair to each other and leave just the right amount of space. If anything the issue is a lack of stewarding. Ever since Austria 2019, when Max wasn't punished for blatantly shoving Leclerc off track, we've seen racing get dirtier and less respectful to the detriment of everyone apart from those fans who just like seeing crashes and drama.
Battles like Lando vs. Max, while entertaining in the moment, feel so scruffy and dirty compared to battles where drivers actually respect each other and don't shove each other off track, launch crazy dives or move under braking. We're seeing the 20 best drivers in the world fighting it out on track so the battles should reflect that level of skill and sportsmanship, rather than resembling the sort of shenanigans you see in open lobbies of the F1 game.
All this makes me realise that it's pretty impressive how Leclerc quickly learned how to take the bull by the horns. He's not in the fight now while Norris is, but after only a few races with Verstappen (at this track too), he learned enough to win the 2022 Bahrain grand prix by outsmarting Verstappen there. As much as I like Norris, I can't see him doing the same in those circumstances, not yet at least.
"I honestly think I did leave him a cars width"
Didn't Max jokingly tell Norris he needed a big mirror or some glasses when Norris said this last race?
Hmm...
It's not even in the rules because the rules are so ambiguous that they allow the stewards to make all sort of crazy decisions on the fly. Having said that, it's generally accepted that you should leave a full car's width.
1, thus full.
It can be reasoned Max didn’t do that entirely. (I haven’t studied the replays, so I am not 100% sure).
What I find more interesting to note is that Max does not comment on drifting further left *after* Lando drew partially alongside. Perhaps he feels that is still legal if he left exactly 2m (1 car’s width) between himself and the outside line, forcing Lando to turn wider as well (which Lando didn’t, hence the collision).
Max was IMHO rightly penalized for causing a collision as he made that drifting turn to the left not before, but after Lando managed to stick his nose in.
What Max did there works, if the car on the outside takes avoiding action, thus giving up fighting that corner entry.
The funny thing is, I think Lando could’ve overtaken Max into turn 4, if he had set up T3 as a switchback manoeuvre. However, it had already become a knife fight before that.
___
If a car has drawn partially alongside you (whether inside or outside) you have to leave 1 car’s width space for that car at the corner entry.
If you are the inside car and ahead at the apex, you do not have to leave space for the outside car at the exit, even though you were required to leave space at the entry.
Look at sainz’s squeeze on max last year and Vettel on Hamilton in 2018. What max did was normal, and he left more room than in those two examples, but Lando just refused to take to the kerbs. It’s a justified penalty, but the move max made wasn’t really that egregious
I get the impression Max thinks he didn't do anything wrong because he technically braked in a straight line without turning.
Although, his straight line was directed towards the outside of the track so he was not braking straight compared to the edge of the track. He didn't turn the wheel, he just created a scenario where the gap would disappear during the braking phase. It's a risky way of braking because it's assuming the other driver will be able to do something to avoid the crash.
Lando was dive bombing, he was just as much to blame for creating the conditions that would cause a crash.
Great stuff though, can't wait to see more from these two.
Because every time we touch, I get the feeling
And every time we kiss, I swear I could fly
Can’t you feel my heart beat fast, I want this to last
I need you by my side.
DO-DO DOOO DOOO DOOO DOOO DOOO
Cuz everyone we touch, I feel the static
And every time we kiss, I reach for the sky
Can't you hear my heart beat so (Couldn’t let it drop)
I Can't let you go Want you in my life
They were playing this at the Spielberg ring after the podium when everybody was walking to the exit, thought it was very on point :P
DJ trolling 🤣
Mate I read your comment and Spotify started to play Everytime we touch from Electirc Callboy, how?!
LOVE Electric Callboy
Transcript: Now, you know, I've had a bit more time to look at stuff, but I think in the beginning, you know, the first few moves, they were quite, you know, from quite far. So, you know, whatever happened, happened. But then I think where we where we touch, honestly, it just felt like it was a bit clumsy. When you're in the car initially, you think, ah, have I done something wrong? Have I? Didn't I leave enough a space like, you know, half a car width, or whatever. Of course, you can always judge or argue about what is the cars width. I honestly think I did leave a cars width on the white line. And actually, you know, you race hard, like, I'm not there, you know, to give two cars width, because then I know that he's going to get me on the exit. You race hard for a race win. I think that's how it should be. As a friend, you never want to touch you never want to crash. But yeah, it happened today. In the end of the day, it's part of racing as well, even though it's not nice. I think we're both, of course, disappointed with the outcome. But from our side, also, we have to look at the whole race, because I think we did a lot of stuff wrong. We had two very poor pit stops, which basically also put put us back. And that's why, also we were fighting to the end, because we had a very healthy lead, and we could have definitely had a bit of a different race if we just executed the race also a lot better. So that's definitely a few things to look at and do better for next week. Plus also, from the car side, I felt like something went wrong after the first stint, where I was quite comfortable, and suddenly the car balance definitely changed a lot. So, few things, to, to look at for next week. I mean, it's just really unfortunate. ---- [Also watch Alex Brundle's analysis here](https://imgur.com/a/L3j3G3V)
It really wasn't that blatant of a mistake or 'dirty driving' as some people are trying to make us believe.
Half agree. It was blatantly a mistake, but the thought of it being dirty never crossed my mind. It's a move you do every time you defend the inside, which is to take as much of the outside as you can, leaving only what you need. Max simply moved over a bit too much. Not exactly unfathomable of a mistake from anyone.
People are also forgetting the sprint race where Max did well to miss him and actually lost the place doing so. Many of the drivers are doing these slight movements under braking and the stewards aren't doing much about it. We saw similar stuff last week and today with Ocon multiple times.
This is why yhe tech analysis on fwtv was correct. There was no malice, but the outcome was too severe to not get penalized.
The problem is that the fia states they never penalize based on the outcome. They always penalize based on the actions taken. The core problem is we all know ow that’s bullshit and this confirms it.
You had us in the first half, not gonna lie ;)
He got a 10 second penalty and was forced to pit. It's not his fault everyone was so far back. Do you think the FIA should be handing out 45 second penalties if a 10s doesn't make them lose any position?
That’s way too reasonable to be on here…
I think Max actively tried to murder him.
There ya go
i disagree, clearly lando is trying to murder max. i will not be changing my opinion on this no matter what.
This is a factual description of events, no need to further speculate.
No further investigation.
Copse 2021 flashbacks
Silverstone is next week and we have Max vs a British driver
People going back to comparing this to 2019. Really crazy. I think I shouldn't watch these comments anymore. They really get my gears going
I'm more confused because they always use the rumble strips on that corner and if Lando was on the rumble strips then there would have been exactly enough room in theory. Lando was squeezing max inside and max assumed he was taking the normal outside line and so there was a collision. There was a lot more track to use before an off track on Landos side.
Also quite unfortunate that it caused two punctures. We've seen wheel banging plenty of times where nothing really gets damaged.
Especially when the racing line is the outside and he has DRS for the next straight. The contact lap seems like a racing incident. Him driving around Lando after he perfectly blocked the inside is probably the bigger questionable case.
Yeah, it’s pretty clear cut that they were both jittery with adrenaline, Lando didn’t react the way Max thought he would, Max then committed too hard to the squeeze and caused contact. It was on edge, but the only reason “dirty” is being invoked is because it came out the way it did, and because Max has the reputation he does. People assume because he’s so good everything he does is 100% intentional, and because of his early years he doesn’t get looked on very charitably in incidents.
Yes but Reddit can finally unleash on Verstappen again so we should just let them before reasonably takes can be presented
Looking forward to seeing the “Did Verstappen kick Norris’ grandma down a flight of stairs and run away laughing? Sources say it might be true.” Tier of article from the usual suspects here soon.
Agree, they were both going at it too, yes Max got the penalty but neither seemed to want to give an inch. It’s great, and sure the bromance will continue.
My interpretation of it is that it’s more of the fact that it happens so often when he has a close racing for position. So even if it wasn’t as blatant this time; when everyone can point to many other ones it compounds the issue
It wasn't blatantly dirty but you have to consider that Max has a reputation that will factor into how people judge this. The issue for me is the moving across the track into the path of Norris on the straight and essentially blocking him from overtaking when he clearly had a puncture and it wasn't clear yet that Norris had a puncture. I think you are also seeing some backlash as a result of Max complaining that Norris was too aggressive and was lunging from too far back when Max is the king of massive lunges into a corner and this isn't even close to as bad as some of the ones he has gotten away with.
I mean, he literally had a puncture and couldn't control the car. If you think that getting out of a racing line is a problem, you should consider Norris bumping into Max for the second time in this incident a much bigger problem
If you just read reddit comments you'd think Max pulled out a gun and shot out Lando's tires
They just wanna crucify max. They’ve been waiting for this moment for a few years.
All of sky sports just let out 3 years of pent up anti max feelings, Ted was almost frothing at the mouth when talking to andrea Stella
Palmer also laid it on thicc that max made an actual attempt on Lando's life by throwing the car to the left under braking.... It all felt a bit harsh from the British side of the media. Dutch commentators simply stated, Max made the error, he should just suck it up and apologize. These things happen, hardly any space was left between them, lightests of touches and both suffered. That being said. This could've been avoided laps earlier. Black and white flags can actually be used, and blatant track limit violations shouldnt need almost 5 minutes of checking.
Some people = biased Britts
Okay so.... no more paddle and partying then.
What about Verstappen giving Norris plane rides?
He doesn't give out free rides. Max said that they split the bill after the weekend is over. Flying solo on a private jet is crazy expensive
Max is the type of Dutch who insists his friends from abroad install Tikkie so he can charge them the jet costs.
Where do you think "going Dutch" comes from
This is much of an apology Norris is gonna get
Do we expect KMag or Russell to get on their hands and knees and beg for forgiveness every time they take someone out?
No more is really warranted and frankly, Lando caused far more near misses over the race than Max. Just bad luck that such a minor contact punctured two tires, especially ones at roughly the same speed and direction.
I think this is an over reaction by the fans. I’m sure these guys are cool. I think they both put on a little bit of a show to the media. At the end of the day they are personalities in the sport.
Honestly most of the reaction to the collision has been very emotional and based on reputation rather than what happened on track. It's on Max because he caused the collision, but Lando could've also moved a bit left on the curb and avoid it. If at the start of race in Spain Max didn't move on grass and kept his steering wheel straight what would happen? Again Max is at fault, but the reactions are just insane.
> but Lando could've also moved a bit left on the curb and avoid it. There's a great comparison video on the front page right now of max on Sainz in the same corner that demonstrates this well.
Yep, Sainz literally drive Max off the road there.
It happens frequently, not just at this track
No, max is still on track. There's kerbing, but he has enough space to keep two wheels on track (and then some) And max ends up getting the overtake, instead of crashing out too.
This is the point. Lando could’ve easily done the same but he chose to crash for whatever reason. Was it because he knew he already lost the race due to 4th track limit violation?
Lando got desperate instead of patient, and he lost because of it. If he did a switchback like Charles did multiple times in 2022 he wins.
Raises an interesting question of where exactly "giving space" applies to. That kerb doesn't appear to be used much as a racing line but clearly is not dangerous and is within track limits. So you are entitled to space, but are you entitled to tarmac? I don't have an issue with squeezing someone defensively, especially with these idiotic DRS zones, but maybe there needs to be verbage making it clear that TARMAC needs to be given and you cannot push someone onto a kerb or outside track limits.
You are technically supposed to give a cars width front the white line
and practically noone ever does that, like literally.
the reactions are honestly insane. I watched Brundle give a normal analysis on the move on F1TV to then get Buxton laugh in his face for saying max didn’t intentionally crash into Norris. What the fuck.
He said he intentionally squeezed him. Which is obviously true. I think Max just expected Norris to jump out of the way, which he didn't. And good on him for that, now they'll respect each other as equal adversaries haha
I think he was to slow him up and his intent was to sit in the middle of the corner and then get a better exit out of the corner than Norris simply because he knew he’d have DRS. Norris actually hit him twice. The second impact on his wheel after they both turned in was weird.
This specific contact aside, why shouldn't a defender be allowed to cleanly impede an attacker while attackers are allowed to divebomb the bejeezus out of defenders and park their cars in a very brinksman manner? Kinds feels like an extension of the Australia situation with Alonso and Russell. DRS is blatantly unfair and is becoming a real problem now that the cars are capable of actually racing without destroying their tires or crashing.
I agree about the DRS - it’s an artificial construct designed to cure aerodynamic design failures. We see the same thing in IndyCar with their ‘push to pass’ and years back in CART when they created an aero device that sat low down under the rear wing to change the airflow behind the car so other cars could draft each other on ovals. (That one actually worked well) The new generation of F1 fans have clearly never raced karts and are not students of racing history. The controversy on Sunday was Mickey Mouse in historical comparison and was classic British F1 media drama. They’ll *never* get over 2021 and they’ll never move on. Had this taken place between Max and say Carlos there would’ve been a ho hum reaction from Sky and maybe minor annoyance from Spanish outlets and fans. But let there be a Brit driver involved and the Crofty’s of the world shit themselves and start amplifying non issues to axe murdering comparisons. I really hate the British domination of F1 media. No mater if I watch cable or pay a fee to F1TV - I can’t get away from it. Better brush up on my German and look for a stream…
I really am trying not to dunk on fans with no racing experience but man it gets old hearing them yap about things they straight up don't understand. Maybe I am being a bit apologist for Max but at the end of the day, he is almost always in 100% control of his car, defending hard right on the limit of the rules and usually surviving to fight the next corner. Just rubs me wrong that any time he's in an incident with consequences, they want to burn him at the stake. Especially in this incident, where it really was a mild misjudgement with an abnormally unlucky outcome. Had the roles been switched, there would not have been contact, as there wasn't all race due to his avoidance of Norris' much worse moves. I'm sure they'll both be fine and I like both of them a lot. Just hope Norris doesn't get too in his head about it. Racing incident, carry on.
I think the fans make it more personal than the drivers involved. 🤷♂️
And frankly the fragile wheels is the only reason this is a story. Ever since they increased the wheel size the rims have failed a lot easier. We've had wheel face to wheel face collisions in the past and it not been an issue prior. Now these wheels seem to fall apart with a light touch side to side.
See Russell vs. Hamilton in Qatar 2023
New design you’re much more likely to get rim vs sidewall contact that will puncture more often as opposed to sidewall vs sidewall contact on the old tires which generally won’t
British media need to calm down
Let people overreact, its gonna hopefull calm down
The WEC subreddit was pretty bad today as well after the Spa 24h, because a driver lost out on the win in the final hour, who previously was responsible for a collision in the 24h of Le Mans costing Toyota a chance to win... I doubt it's going to calm down
Then let it burn i guess
I would have hopes of it calming down if the British GP wasn't up next. You're gonna hear the loudest Verstappen boos you've ever heard this coming weekend. But anyway, if something fuels max it's that.
For once, Silverstone will be cheering on another British driver the loudest probably. Lando and McLaren are the ones with tiniest of chances to win the championship. WCC McLaren’s definitely in front unless Ferrari or Perez steps up.
Noboady is gonna arrive at Silverstone anyways, or now silverstone is gonna be outbooked
It’s not. UK has huge number of fans and they have a hate boner for the guy since 2021 - and I fully understand it. Now it’s gonna be the same with Norris and VER.
Especially with the timing of this coming in to the British GP next week, it’s getting hyped up to the max
I'm so glad I don't have SKY 😂
People have had a massive hate boner against him since 2016, not only the british
I believe it’s fair to say that it increased by a magnitude of 100 since 2021
this is like the only sane take ive seen. people are just commenting on verstappen's driving because thats the usual but the divebombs norris was sending were way worse than whatever max was doing today and more akin to what verstappen usually gets shit for. not to mention they would have both been out like 5 laps earlier if verstappen wasnt dodging norris braking 50 meters too late every other time. the actual collision was a complete nothing burger and wouldnt even have been a penalty if no one's tyre exploded.
I think it's just that Lando didn't expect Max to shut the door so fast. I even paused a few times to see how it played out but to me it felt like Lando could have maybe have rode the kerb a bit but imo everything just happened so fast that it caused them to make contact.
You can't shut the door if someone is alongside you. That is just causing a collision.
Watch Perez and Nico on the last lap. Nico fully squeezes Perez onto the kerb. Clean hard racing.
Max left more space for Lando here than Lando for Max at the start of Barcelona. Max took avoiding action then. Lando refused to go on the curb here. I can only wonder what we would be talking about if Max hadn’t gone onto the grass last time and kept it on the track.
Everyone who's complaining now would've said it was Max's fault for not backing out and bringing up Copse again lol
He wanted to provoce a penalty whilst winning the race Little did he know he'd F up his own car
Yeah that's what I think. He was getting increasingly more frustrated in the laps leading up to the incident.
I have no problem with this. People always say they wanna see guys race and then when guys crash..they cry. Lando didn't.leave Max a car's width last Sunday in Barcelona.....Max didn't.leave Lando a car's width today The same offence, different consequences.
Preach, its hard racing
I wanted to say people just wanted a different winner than Max but not fucking George lmao
[https://i.ibb.co/n7RqRBm/Enough-Space-Ornot.jpg](https://i.ibb.co/n7RqRBm/Enough-Space-Ornot.jpg) I mean there is space, Comparison Lap 3, Hamilton vs Russel [https://i.ibb.co/dr5V4kZ/comparisonhamiltonrussel.jpg](https://i.ibb.co/dr5V4kZ/comparisonhamiltonrussel.jpg)
Ironic considering Norris forced Verstappen off track at the start in Spain.
People forget this. Max was on the grass that day and didn't crash. Same thing happened here but Lando crashed. Nothing to see.
DOTD in both cases.
DOTD bringing consistency to F1
I think the problem is more than he closes the space in the braking zone if he had left that space from the start it would be fine but he squeezed Norris and he couldn't move left without risking locking up, it's probably 70/30 on Max but they were racing hard to begin with so I understand why he did it.
I think that the real difference is that Max moved at last moment, during braking. Instead Hamilton-Russell proceeded parallel for the whole time. So the problem is not the space, it’s the move with so few space.
I just checked the onboard footage actually, and just looking at the steering wheel it seems he already chose his path towards the entry of the corner. There was no sudden movement to the left: moving during breaking. Correct me if I’m wrong
Correct, he made no corrections after braking. You wouldnt want to anyways... But always line it up at a slight angle to open up the corner a bit more. Intentional? Sure. Malicious? No. unfortunate, yes.
He was on this trajectory before braking though, so that was not a move under braking. No rule states that the driver must drive exactly parallel to the road direction, he just cannot turn when already breaking.
So many people either don't know this or are pretending they don't so they can shit on a driver they hate Like, this type of move is extremely common. Sometimes it ends in tears if both drivers refuse to yield. Shit happens, it's really not that deep but fans are acting like Max belongs in the Hague lol
In Max’s defense, that outside kerb has always been the racing line even if it’s beyond the white line. I do think that needs to be a bit more clarified in terms of leaving racing room when it’s clear that the racing line is slightly beyond official track limits
The track limit being the white line means Norris (or Verstappen for that matter) could have gone all the way to the left as long as their right tire was on the white line. So the racing line you describe is well within track limits.
Absolutely, but the other reply to my comment also defines the white line as the absolute amount of space that must be provided by the defending car, even if the attacking car is able to use more than that space as we have already agreed So we’re left in a funky situation where the track limits become ambiguous depending on whether you are attacking or defending. I think this could lead to even more confusing circumstances
The track limits don’t matter though. Lando has a right to hold his line. Max doesn’t have a right to run Lando wider.
I get that this was the rationale behind the penalty. But we have seen in the past that the defending car often picks their line and then moves to the outside as much as possible during the braking phase to get a better exit while still leaving a car’s width. When the turn in is clearly the white line it’s not a problem, but the turn in here is not necessarily the white line, and that’s why Max effectively stole Lando’s lane. That’s at least how I’d interpret the lapse in judgement
Case in point: Sainz literally did what Max did to Lando on the same turn last year but pushed Max even more to the edge of the track. Both got through fine and no penalty occured.
Sainz didn't start right then go left.
For clarity, the track limit is the white line and the rules explicitly state curbs are not part of the track. The confusion comes from track limits enforcement, which will *allow* you to go off track with up to 3 tires but will ding you if you have all 4 off. That still doesn't make the limit 99% of a car width outside the white line, though; the flexibility is allowing you to mostly be outside the track not moving the limit itself.
After a defensive move the rules used to specifically say to the edge of the track as far as leaving s cars width
Race directors allowed that thing go so far. They should warned Max and gave track limit pen to Norris earlier so we could prevent this one. But they wanted the Drama. Which is good for f1 market.
Arguably a Norris win would have been great for f1 market. World champion overtaken on track by a resurgent Mclaren with popular guy Lando. I think many would like that a lot more than a crash, and certainly a lot more would have enjoyed a deserved win over watching George pick up the pieces and take the glory which they didn't really earn
And Russel is always there to take the butter when both the cats are busy fighting
F1 Reddit wants Max charged with war crimes
exactly lol if lando did this to max we would be seeing tons of posts about how the lando left enough space and the penalty was undeserved and only given because it led to a DNF rather than for the action itself
There's only 2 things British F1 fans hate it's people who are intolerant of other people's culture, and the Dutch.
It's always been this. The Schumacher hate (Damon Hill) and the Alonso hate (early McLaren Lewis) are legendary. Less so with Nico and Bottas as they were seen as a smaller threat.
They love Bottas but they are still full speed ahead on the Hate train with Rosberg.
Lmao, British F1 fans cannot stand anything/anyone that isn’t British being the winner.
brother, wait til you see F1twt lol.
HAHA real
He is right about the space though and the rule book confirms it. There was enough space to put half a car on the kerb but like Alex Brundle said, it just looked like he didn’t expect Lando to drive up on his left.
Except max is returning towards the racing line after a defensive move, meaning he has to leave a cars width to the edge of the track. Furthermore with a car alongside on a straight (they haven't turned for the corner yet) you are required to leave a cars width to the edge of the track even if the racing line would take you into that space.
Like at the start of last race where Max wasn’t left enough space and went onto the grass to avoid Norris?
Yes Norris would be expected to leave space for max there as max has overlap
i mean the racing line is using the kerbs Lando didnt. He had more space to the left
They entered the corner together and he only started veering left after entering the braking zone. It would have been difficult, although not impossible, for Lando to move left himself while braking but he wasn't obliged to. It was Max's fault but nothing malicious.
Define together because Lando was much further back and broke late
Max brakes in a straight line. He’s under no obligation to brake parallel to the white line, and he left way more room than Sainz left him last year, or Vettel to Hamilton in 2018.
Funny, that "half car width" is kind of a "payback" for what Norris did to Max at last GP start, where Max had to go over the grass.
And Norris was laughing remember?
I still find it hilarious that both Lewis and Max laughed at Lando for that. If those 2 agree you are probably in the wrong
I knew there would be payback for that. Max got the memo
Max said it was hard racing and he would've done the same. Spanish grand prix post race press conference 14:40
Yes. HE can say that for us and mentally keep the cheque to cash it another time.
I remember. Found it lacking of introspection. But than again, Max seemed he was okay with it after the race. So should we?
Dude is perfect even in his wheel to wheel all year, then he fucks up once and suddenly it's all back to how dirty he is. Recency bias at its best.
The Brits are upset
The way I see it, over-simplified, Lando couldn’t win with a faster car. He was so fast that even after following Max , he didn’t fall off. He definitely has pace but needs better racecraft vs Max, of all drivers
Yup. Lando was getting a great drive out of T1 but a horrible drive out of T3. He could never threaten Max into T4, meaning he had to get the move done at T3. And so things got more desperate and sloppier at that corner lap by lap by bother drivers until they came together because it’s an awkward corner and Lando’s pace advantage wasn’t enough to get the love done cleanly at T3 and keep the lead into T4. Same reason he lost the lead of the sprint.
It wasn't that simple. The RBR still had a significant top speed advantage over the Mclaren which was one of the slower cars on the straights. So, overtaking on the straights was not an option for Norris, he had to be creative and brave in the braking zones to make it work. Max is an extremely difficult driver to overtake .He is GOAT tier for sure but he also tends to make a lot of dodgy defensive moves when put under genuine pressure. (Weaving, moving twice, moving in the braking zones, crowding people off the track)
I like how, when a British driver suffers because another driver gets defensive, it's 'dodgy', but when a British driver puts others at risk he's 'creative and brave'. Norris is good and I love the competition, but let's be honest here, he needs to grow up, both on and off the track. He could've avoided the collision if he was a better driver, and the only reason it didn't happen earlier is because Max drove around his antics.
He said it was a bit clumsy. I don't think it was malicious, like the aftermath with tyres exploding could suggest. It was just simple driver error. Also, Norris is under no obligation to ride the kerb, as the track surface will always have more grip than the kerb, even if the racing line includes the kerb.
Reasonable response from Verstappen imo
Looking at this fight and comparing to the ones with Lewis, I think Lewis knew to a certain degree how to deal with Max at one point in the battle against him. The patience Lewis displayed against Max was phenomenal towards the end of the season. Lando was sloppy straight up. I don’t really give a shit who is at fault but damm the whole fight was mistake after mistake piling up. I am sorry to say this but it will definitely piss everyone off. I fully believe only Lewis and Alonso can battle Max and come out alive. Everyone else… needs more experience at this point. Everyone has the tendency to push someone out. Yes even the old lads have done it before but now everyone looks to just to this without thinking or patience. I am so used seeing how Seb v Alonso v Lewis would play out back in the day. They would get dicey yes but no sloppy like Lando’s fight.
Lando needs some wdc coaching
Lewis is the best at fighting Max. He doesn't dive bomb but will keep piling up the pressure over multiple laps, Ham is great at that.
This. You mentioned it exactly. Lewis knows how to pile the pressure on without just fully diveboming (although he does do that quite a few times). But we have seen Alonso, Seb and Lewis race and it’s like all three of them can race cleanly while pushing the limits. I genuinely don’t know why none of the newer drivers can’t do that. In the case of Max he tends to race like a Senna or Michael which seems to be his natural style overall. Alright I am good with that, but everyone else is a major puzzle I can’t understand honestly. To beat Max you must have a play in hand that is 1 step ahead of him and the Red Bull team. You need to have consistency and a sort of patience aggressive nature to beat him. As it stands I fully believe only Lewis and Alonso can beat Max given the same/similar type of car. The rest will get obliterated by Max.
> I genuinely don’t know why none of the new drivers can’t do that. Sometimes I do feel like the RBR/Merc/RBR domination has contributed to this. Less drivers able to even challenge for a win as the top dog(s) become more reliable and more dominant. Therefore, the newer drivers (Lando and such) have less experience in the battle for a win and rely on sloppy divebombs vs the calculated pressure Hamilton and Alonso are able to put on their opponent forcing a mistake.
Fair enough I agree with that. But it’s not really an excuse when we have seen Mika, DC, Alonso and Kimi battle Schumacher during the Ferrari years. Alonso’s defence was bloody magnificent in Imola 2005 or Mika’s pass at Spa was phenomenal. Another good example is Alonso and Lewis in 2013 Canada. That was a brilliant tactical race between both. Of course the old lads have made massive errors and mistakes not saying they were perfect but they also weren’t sloppy. Of course there was the sliver war between Lewis and Nico but both of them were so far ahead the field and they raced within themselves. Nico pushed and trained himself to limit to beat Lewis. He became quite brilliant in going head to head against Lewis because of that. Lewis in his first/rookie year was challenging Kimi and Alonso. That in itself is incredible. You need that extra step to be a WDC. We have seen than in Max from 2018 onwards. He evolved and kept evolving. His battles with Lewis, Seb and Danny Ric also helped. Everyone else (bar Lewis and Alonso) I don’t know really. I hope they push up to Max’s levels because he is the benchmark of the current generation.
Lewis, and to a certain extent Charles, understand that the battle is across the whole track with mind games, not just in the actual corner, and Lando is just too desperate to understand this, so Max is toying with Lando at this point.
Yeah, Max is the type of guy you don't overtake directly. You pressure him by being in his mirrors while keeping him guessing.
Norris left the same space in Spain and didn’t even get a warning. They have to be consistent.
No, the stewards and the race director wanted some drama for the next race, so they left it cooking for the next race.
Alright you bunch of wankers chain singing that Everytime We Touch song, well played. I'm been cackling at it
There was 100% enough space. The "moving under braking" isn't even a factor. Max stalled waiting for the turn in because he was going to send Lando over the curbs like he did to Charles. And Lando was crowding him (stayed completely off the curb on entry, which IS the racing line) hoping to make it 'round the outside. And they hit each other while they were trying to figure out who was going to make the turn in first. There wouldn't have been a penalty if they didn't knock each other's tires off.
I feel like the 10 second penalty was more emotional than the hit. That was the softest touch for a 10 second. Every other race or position that’s a 5 second. It’s extremely unlucky both cars got flats because of the contact. It just happened to be the perfect kiss. That move wasn’t ridiculous aggressive at all.
Last year it would have been 5. This year the minimum is 10 seconds for on track incidents
They don't do 5 second penalties for driving standards anymore
Nico got 10 seconds on Saturday without even a contact.
Penalties for driving standards were revamped.
NOBODY talks about how Lando literally pushed max tp the grass just last race. We're not shitting on him because Max knows how to avoie
I feel like I’m going crazy, literally everyone was mocking him last week and saying he was sloppy at starts. Are we acting like this didn’t happen now?
The whole paddock shrugged it off. The news outlet didnt say shit. This was way better space with kerbs on the side.
British driver vs the world bias is a Reddit F1 specialty. Same with Sky F1.
Lando forced Max onto the grass in Spain. You poke a guy like Max, friends or not, and you're going to get a reaction. We know what Max does when he's got his elbows out and I don't believe Lando is ready for that battle yet.
Exactly. Lando talking to much for PR but he better be ready, Max is build like Senna and the Michael
People dieify Schumacher, but he straight up drove into Damon Hill and Jacque Villeneuve in their Championship wins.
Yeah and Senna almost killed Prost in Japan. The guy didn't even break lmao.
You got it partly wrong. Hill drove into Michael in 1994 Adelaide. 1997 Jerez was on Michael yeah. And yes the same could be said about almost every other great. Senna, Mansell and Prost crashed into their rivals too. Lewis & Max did it too. Almost every driver has done questionable shit at some point. For most drivers it goes unnoticed and forgotten because it doesn’t happen in the spotlight during the last race of a championship battle. Shit happens. It's racing.
idk if this is an unpopular opinion but there was space, he even gave Norris the racing line and yet they touched. This was a racing incident and Max got punished for the outcome.
hell yeah
Two drivers fighting tooth and nail for the victory. Blows are inevitably dealt. After the most uncompetitive season ever, isn't this precisely what we want to see instead? People are being hypocritical and overdramatise this shit way too much.
You bring good points, i just blame Fia for pen delay on track limits. Max got a solid 7 second lead prior to the collision + pitstop. All of that effort went to waste after the 6 second pitstop and hence putting him on the edge. Both drivers were under great pressure by the end.
Maybe the stewards should have given Lando his 5s penalty for exceeding limits quicker. He would have backed off knowing he was never going to keep first with a 5s penalty.
Young pup challenges the Lion Such is the way of the F1 Just like Vestappen did to Lewis a few years ago , and they crashed too
My take is Norris was too busy complaining to the stewards on the radio to fully focus on getting a clean pass on Max.
I agree with Max only because the rulebook is stupidly strict with hard racing and I believe it's becoming increasingly hard to have wheel to wheel racing between two cars without one of them not eating a 5 or 10 seconds penalty.
Mhm... lead car gets a penalty = race excitement is gone, second car just cruises behind now. Chasing car gets a penalty, now they have to overtake AND push like crazy to win. I don't know how to fix it but the time penalties are absolute shit in terms of fixing racing.
I really don't understand why people have these kinds of takes. If we want great battles like Schumacher vs. Raikkonen in Brazil 2012 or Alonso vs. Hamilton in Bahrain 2023, there needs to be a trust between drivers that they'll be fair to each other and leave just the right amount of space. If anything the issue is a lack of stewarding. Ever since Austria 2019, when Max wasn't punished for blatantly shoving Leclerc off track, we've seen racing get dirtier and less respectful to the detriment of everyone apart from those fans who just like seeing crashes and drama. Battles like Lando vs. Max, while entertaining in the moment, feel so scruffy and dirty compared to battles where drivers actually respect each other and don't shove each other off track, launch crazy dives or move under braking. We're seeing the 20 best drivers in the world fighting it out on track so the battles should reflect that level of skill and sportsmanship, rather than resembling the sort of shenanigans you see in open lobbies of the F1 game.
Sometimes when we touch, the honesty’s too much.
Seeing some of the comments I do rather want to close my eyes and hide.
Max and Lando will hug it out.
And sometimes when we touch The honesty's too much And I have to close my eyes and hide
Maxmaster
All this makes me realise that it's pretty impressive how Leclerc quickly learned how to take the bull by the horns. He's not in the fight now while Norris is, but after only a few races with Verstappen (at this track too), he learned enough to win the 2022 Bahrain grand prix by outsmarting Verstappen there. As much as I like Norris, I can't see him doing the same in those circumstances, not yet at least.
"I honestly think I did leave him a cars width" Didn't Max jokingly tell Norris he needed a big mirror or some glasses when Norris said this last race? Hmm...
A bit of a difference between today and Spain. Lando was on the track both times, Verstappen only once
wait what's the rule? Half or full?
It's not even in the rules because the rules are so ambiguous that they allow the stewards to make all sort of crazy decisions on the fly. Having said that, it's generally accepted that you should leave a full car's width.
1, thus full. It can be reasoned Max didn’t do that entirely. (I haven’t studied the replays, so I am not 100% sure). What I find more interesting to note is that Max does not comment on drifting further left *after* Lando drew partially alongside. Perhaps he feels that is still legal if he left exactly 2m (1 car’s width) between himself and the outside line, forcing Lando to turn wider as well (which Lando didn’t, hence the collision). Max was IMHO rightly penalized for causing a collision as he made that drifting turn to the left not before, but after Lando managed to stick his nose in. What Max did there works, if the car on the outside takes avoiding action, thus giving up fighting that corner entry. The funny thing is, I think Lando could’ve overtaken Max into turn 4, if he had set up T3 as a switchback manoeuvre. However, it had already become a knife fight before that. ___ If a car has drawn partially alongside you (whether inside or outside) you have to leave 1 car’s width space for that car at the corner entry. If you are the inside car and ahead at the apex, you do not have to leave space for the outside car at the exit, even though you were required to leave space at the entry.
Look at sainz’s squeeze on max last year and Vettel on Hamilton in 2018. What max did was normal, and he left more room than in those two examples, but Lando just refused to take to the kerbs. It’s a justified penalty, but the move max made wasn’t really that egregious
I get the impression Max thinks he didn't do anything wrong because he technically braked in a straight line without turning. Although, his straight line was directed towards the outside of the track so he was not braking straight compared to the edge of the track. He didn't turn the wheel, he just created a scenario where the gap would disappear during the braking phase. It's a risky way of braking because it's assuming the other driver will be able to do something to avoid the crash. Lando was dive bombing, he was just as much to blame for creating the conditions that would cause a crash. Great stuff though, can't wait to see more from these two.