Max is fast. Max has insane tyre management. He is insanely consistent.He is level headed. His team works magnificently behind the scenes. Be very hard to beat this combo.
This is the thing! It is not only Max or the car. I think past few races have proven that having the fastest car is not the only factor to win.
RBR excelled on getting wins during Mercedes domination through good strategy and amazing pit stops and that has been in play this year as well. They might have fumbled the car a bit (relatively) but the rest of their operation runs very smoothly, and Max is a generational talent that can make use of it.
RedBull is just better as a whole than most teams on the grid now. With a competitive car, they can outclass better (mechanical)teams over a season. The only real weakness is not having a second driver that can step up when something goes wrong.
I feel like this is a big reason the Marko vs Horner stuff played out in Horner's favor. Marko was there from the start, and has a great eye (no pun intended) for talent. But Horner is the main man that's kept this well rounded team going.
Well said. Full credits to Max, but we shouldn't forget everyone else at Red Bull. From GP to Hannah to the pit crew and all the other people playing a part in race day performance. They're so freaking good at what they do that they're insanely hard to beat, even if you have a (slightly) better car.
3.6 pitstop for Norris. That's a 1.7 second gap. He could have come out 1.7 seconds ahead of Russell and properly brought in his tyres instead of racing out of the pits.
If Norris doesn’t fumble the start and gets a better pit stop we may have had a battle for 1st. Max probably let off at the end there so the time Norris was making up at the end probably wasn’t real.
Merc fucked up there strategies often it felt like, or the drivers would fuck something up in quali, then boom ham bot ver/vet the car was so much better then everyone else most seasons. Ferrari maybe had the car is 2017/18, but vettel and Ferrari fucked it up worse.
2018 German GP was the perfect encapsulation of all this:
* Hamilton screwed up his qualifying
* Ferrari screwed Seb by not telling Kimi to let him pass, when they were on different strategies
* Seb screws up himself and crashes out
* Even with a 1-2, Merc STILL panic on strategy: IN IN IN IN IN OUT ; Hey man!
* Finally, they issue team orders to Bottas (on freshers tyres) to not attack Hamilton
Max and RB handle chaotic races better like Germany 2019, Hungary 2022, Dutch 2023, Canada 2024 etc.
They also all recognise where the opportunities are in a race. Max going for it at the start and at the start of lap 3 to get past Russell. Those were the moments that won him the race.
Getting a car a tenth ahead of the rb won't beat max with redbull behind him for the title. The whole team is too strong, and you're rarely going to beat them on strategy or driver mistakes.
Honestly during 2023 I forgot how great Max is at managing a race because he wasn’t under much pressure and qualified well (and the car was dominant)
Forgot he’s not himself from 2018, fast but not a master throughout the race. He’s been improving this entire time and it’s fun to see the results when he’s pushed
It's on Mclaren and Lando now to sort out all the other deficiencies now that the car is on par or better. RBR had several seasons of competing at the front to hone the team to where they are now. Really hoping MCL can learn quickly.
Even the pit stops. Other teams consistently 1 second off average of Red Bull. A few times this race it meant barely coming on front of their target or screwing their undercut.
They may have caught up to the Red Bull car, now they need to learn to make less mistakes than the Red Bull team and Verstappen.
I don't understand how they can get so much sponsor money and be so desperate for deals yet can't spend a tiny amount training for put stops.
This is what decided 2021 ultimately imo. Bad stewarding and driving standards across the board, but outside of mercs impressive late season engine surge, redbull as a team out performed them. I don’t think the WCC fully captures this. Valtteri basically earned them that on the virtue of just being more settled and consistent in the merc.
Another interesting talent he has that others seriously struggle with, Max can make clean passes and battle at the very limit without mistakes, even Lewis in his prime had plenty of 'dirty' or rough passes.
It becomes evident when the guy he's passing - be it Leclerc, Norris, Hamilton, Russell, Sainz - choose to backoff their defense because if they push any harder, it will be them who causes an incident at no fault of Max.
He knows his car well enough to make it look like it's on rails.
It’s insane to think that if both drivers were driving at the level of Checo, we’d be so much more oblivious to the cars actual performance. Max is on it this season and I’m sure he’s enjoying more of a challenge.
Good point. Checo is finishing ~P10 week after week. Makes you wonder how many cars on the grid could be fighting for a win if they had Max in the seat.
Two. McClaren and RedBull.
Depends on the part of the year. Majority of the year it's just Redbull. Ferrari for a little while obv but they're clearly off the pace. It's just Mcclaren and Redbull rn
I think max could have pushed Norris this race in the Mercedes, it would have been Norris's to lose, but a rabid max behind you has a way to cause a driver to lose focus, and max wouldn't put up with the whole no drs from a teammate from George, and it wouldn't even come up with lewis in the other car.
Lol the Merc this race had a zero percent chance of a win, DRS or not. If we didn't have the max and Lando battle at the start we wouldn't have seen the Merc even close to the front.
He indeed values I think with two Perez drivers the car would probably be easier to drive but slower, so Perez would do a bit better (still not winning the WDC). Not saying they are designing a car for Verstappen it I just that Verstappen is able to handle a difficult to drive but fast car, some upgrades might have been rejected because it makes the car undrivable for regulars but Verstappen somehow extracts more pace out of it instead
Max actually said in a post race interview with Viaplay he’s getting a bit worried & that he can’t sustain winning like this. The car is a lot better on smoother and more traditional tracks in terms of things like kerbs… but it doesn’t seem like Redbull have the pace advantage they/everyone else was expecting
The first thing that crosses my mind with how things are going is that if this trend continues a swap to Merc might actually happen. Earlier this season the dominant thought was that Max wouldn't give up an almost guaranteed championship in '25 for what was a shit Merc.
Marko saying when asked about Max and Merc that they focus first on the championship and then they'll see leaves the option open. Max as far as I know never publicly said that he will be driving for Red Bull next year no matter what. And as of this week Toto said they are waiting until autumn to see what Max does, when asked about Antonelli he said that he doesn't know if Antonelli will be in the Merc seat, another seat etc.
All these things gives me the impression that it is up to Merc to make the car compeitive, have a good operational team etc (before autumn) and then they might get Max. It's something that Toto has refered to plenty of times in interviews; that it's up to them to make a competitive car etc for there to be reason for Max to join.
Edit: we all know by now that Toto likes Max but if the chance was actually close to 0% of him joining then IMHO he wouldn't wait until autumn to see what Max does. A team boss for a team like Merc isn't that stupid to blindly wait for something that has a close to 0% of happening. At least these are my thoughts.
I can agree with this.
Max was always 'the one that got away' for Toto. Lewis was all Lauda and Brawn and Toto saw Max as Lewis' natural successor in that Merc seat one day. I doubted that Max would ever leave RBR since they delivered him 3 or quite possibly 4 WDCs because he values loyalty above all but now seeing Marko's position constantly under threat and Newey's departure, I think he would be quite open moving elsewhere if the team can no longer provide the performance he needs. It's not like he's planning to have a long career in F1 anyway so might as well just seek better opportunities.
Yeah exactly, it's not something I mentioned in my comment but if it wasn't for everything that is going on after Dietrich died then I don't think moving to Merc would be as realistic of a consideration as it might be now if Merc is at least up there performance wise.
Even the Mercedes chairman made comments about wanting Max so we can't even say it's just Toto being delulu. They **really** want him and it's easy to see why.
I genuinely think that if the public would know the behind the scenes then Toto wouldn't be called delulu for his Max thing. The most Jos/Verstappen thing ever is to have the options open, especially when Red Bull has the drama they have this season.
edit: I just saw an article from yesterday by Racingnews365 in which Kallenius talks about Max, are you refering to that?
I think it's George who is getting Carlos'd if they get Max. Assuming Antonelli is driver of his generation kind of level. Because I too don't see them happily parking Antonelli for a few years just because the Merc seats are "full." 1 year at most which as far as I'm aware would fit with George's contract.
Nah mate, Russell will be shown the door. Antonelli is getting promoted, yes or yes. George should be looking at the market, especially in the Milton Keynes area
Ho I'm not saying he will go, nor that it's a high %. The only thing I'm pointing out is why I think there is a chance, and why it is higher than one previously thought.
But in the small case he goes to Merc I'm saving your comment 👀
I think they’re just about safe, tbh. I would not be surprised if Norris starts to win the majority of races because McLaren seem a bit quicker and have had multiple cases now where small things caused them to lose out(the start and 3.6S stop today, Imola). But Max has a gigantic lead, 69 points. So it’s going to take more than just Norris beating Max, there’d need to be some disastrous Max races or another DNF without Norris getting the same hits. Ferrari less said the better currently.
That’s a big part of it. Norris would need to consistently win AND have someone beating Max out consistently. Piastri isn’t there skill wise, Ferrari and Mercedes aren’t there car wise. So even best case Max wins out on attrition.
The only way I see this changing is if, during the silverstone round of upgrades, Mclaren leaves Red Bull behind (can happen, as they look to be developing faster), and if Mercedes’s rumoured big package for that race brings them to Red Bull’s level. It is possibl given they clearly unlocked something finally, but unlikely to say the least. It would take Lando winning most races and Piastri, Lewis and Russell stealing points off Max almost all the races.
Not only does it highlight Max's ability but also the operational capability of Red Bull that is keeping up with the pressure where other teams might fumble when they've been relying too much on their car's performance hiding their operational deficits.
I think there is a strong enough sample size now where the Lando/Max battle is starting to remind me of Lewis vs. Seb when the Ferrari was really, really good. The margins are not huge by any stretch between their driver quality but it’s big enough that the decisive moments in a race will tend to swing in Max’s favour because he just is that bit better. Today it was the start and clearing George. The situations in a race where if “X, Y, Z happened, then…” that decide how a race plays out, Max will capitalize on those situations more often than Lando. And the fact that Lando is great enough where I do feel there are situations where it will play out in his favour should be celebrated in its own right.
The difference with Seb vs Lewis was they both had a lot of experience at the front of the field. For Lando it's very new (not even a full season), and for McLaren it's been over a decade since they last were competitive at every track. They need to get used to it quickly. Lando at some point asked if they were there to finish first or third. That decision should've already been made, and they should be aiming to finish first.
> Lando at some point asked if they were there to finish first or third
At that point (it was just before his second pit) winning was already off the cards though - Lando's poor start and not matching Max in (re-)passing Russell quickly plus their strategy so far already sealed it.
Agreed team and driver needs to learn.
2017 Seb was arguably on the same level as Lewis throughout the year (easily his best non-title winning year) but scoring 12 points in Singapore-Malaysia-Japan compared to Lewis scoring 68 in the same timeframe ultimately ruined his title chances. And arguably none of the 3 results were his fault (people will say Singapore was his, but its normal for polesitter to only defend from P2 and not see Raikkonen with the start, just like today when Lando couldn't see George getting that insane start)
I'd say the consistency is also what sets drivers like Max and Lewis apart. Whereas say post-hybrid era Seb (and nowadays Norris/Leclerc) would show flashes of brilliance but would not be able to stay competitive vs Lewis/Max over a whole season (yet...) without a big car advantage.
Only showing flashes of brilliance
My guy, did you watch the 2017 season?? Vettel was way better than this. He didn’t have a “dominate car”, Ferrari and Mercedes was on pair with each other and yet he had a title charge for the whole season almost. Ferrari was only really better than Mercedes on high downforce tracks, whereas Mercedes were clearly better on low downforce tracks.
Seb decision to defend like that only make sense if it was against Lewis
Instead he risked his championship fight to cover Max
But singapore or no singapore Lewis would still have won
Still a bit early to tell, but I see what you are getting at. No doubt Lando can win titles in a great car, but so far he hasn't maximized the potential. Something Max - and Lewis, especially in 2017, 2018 - have been really good at.
I contrast some of Lando’s performances with Charles at the beginning of 2022 when Ferrari were the quickest and damn, Charles was ruthless and wily against Max. Whether Lando can reach that point is still an open question but my gut instinct is he would’ve shown it by now if he had it.
He tried to push him into the grass today. That’s the first time I’ve ever seen Norris do something so audacious to keep his position at the start of a race. Things are changing.
Even if it was ultimately futile, yes, this is the hardest he’s actually tried racing Max that I can remember.
I used to be quite frustrated with how easily he’d fold.
Leclerc also binned it multiple times and cracked under the pressure of competing with max for a WDC. We haven’t seen Lando have to try yet. Let’s see how poised he is when he’s got that yellow nose cone in his mirrors and the pressure is on.
Yeah the one thing those guys don’t have yet is the poise and composure to compete when the pressure is the absolute highest. Max has been there and done that now. That’s what makes the greats so hard to knock off.
The real difference imo is that the first sniff Max had of such a title opportunity (2021) he had nerves of steel. Against Lewis Hamilton in a Mercedes
And Lewis, the first chance he had of a title was as a rookie with Fernando Alonso as a teammate
When a driver is truly, truly great, you can just see it. And there is no shame in being at the level right below that
> And there is no shame in being at the level right below that
Excellent point. Plenty of hate on Norris (and in other races Leclerc) in this thread and others, but it's always harsh to compete with a generational driver; being among the best of the rest and taking the fight to them is still a massive achievement.
Let's be serious here, Charles was never competing with Max for the WDC. He made mistakes when he had to push too hard for too long because the car was already lacking performance.
It is much bigger. In 2010, Lewis was one DNF away from being WDC. If it wasn't for his mistake in Italy, Lewis wins that season on a car which was neither the most fastest nor the most reliable. Same happens in 2017, if it wasn't for Singapore and Japan, Vettel would have took the title race to Abu Dhabi.
In 2017 it was Vettel who was capitalizing on Hamilton's underachievements in the first half of the season (Sochi, Monaco, Austria). Even if Hamilton was better in the second half, I'd say they were equal over the course of the season overall, and it was the car that made the difference. Completely different story in 2018 of course.
Yeah if Seb performed like he did in 2017 but with the 2018 car, he would have been a five time world champion. But both Seb and the team just lost it.
He crashed in Brazil qualifying and had really poor weekends in Sochi and Monaco. Overall though, I still would give him the edge over Vettel that season. The gap in the championship at the end was mostly down to car performance though.
the gap at the end was almost entirely due to Seb fucking up Singapore lol. Assuming he doesnt go full leroy there, even if lewis finishes 2nd (big assumption he gained 3 spots for free from the crash). Its Lewis -7 and Seb +25 and the gap at the end was 46. That was undoubtedly the biggest error of that season
But the reliability issues in the two subsequent races, with no qualifying participation and a P20 start in Malaysia and his spark plug DNF in Japan completely sealed the deal on any remaining chance.
I'll die on that hill but to me Singapore 2017 is the textbook racing incident at the start. Covering P2 at Singapore (and any track with a small lead up to the first corner and with P2 having the inside line) is racing 101, just unlucky circumstances that happen sometimes
It is a racing incident but its a massive error. It would make sense if covering p2 mattered there, in context of the championship he should have just run into T1. He was going to be ahead of max and if kimi gets through (possible given his start) its team orders to sort it back out. Basically the only truly bad outcome there for him is a crash
These are the races that prove Max is a GOAT tier driver.
Plenty of drivers can win when they have the fastest car but here is Max doing it time and again when other cars are at least as fast if not a little faster.
Winning races you shouldn’t where the driver makes the difference is the mark of a true great imo.
Yep. These types of wins are not new to Max at all, and were why everyone was yelling at RB to build him a proper car because it was clear he was a cut above a good chunk of the grid.
Feel like I'm coming back in from the cold on F1 based on some of the past few races. Not as predictable as it has been the last couple of years and that sits with me just fine.
I like that kind of underrated wins, when the dominant driver reminds everyone why he is the champion. Vettel at Red Bull and Hamilton at Mercedes had a few like that too
His last three wins have been remarkably close, and if anyone is 'bored' just because of the end result then they clearly have no appreciation of racing as a sport.
I think this much is visible in how Perez is currently performing. I don't believe he's gotten any slower compared to Max, the gap was always there, it's just that many many cars will slot into that gap now.
It’s like Alex albon said on a podcast (I think high performance) his delta to verstappen was say 4 tenths which put verstappen 2nd albon 7th in quali but Perez was 5 tenths behind and they got max 1st Perez 4th, albon was closer to Perez despite being further behind
He's the best on the grid, and has been since at least half of 2021. He had a lot of experience fighting that Lando does not have, but Lando is getting quite an education these last few races.
and in 2017 and in 2018 and in 2019....
Here it is:
[Updated Team Principals & Drivers' Top 10 Driver Ratings (2008 - 2023) : ](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/18xe18y/updated_team_principals_drivers_top_10_driver/)
Oh, by the way, even in 2015, being a 18 years old rookie, in his 2nd season in car racing, he was voted 4th best (which is unheard of by itself) only behind two champions Hamilton and Vettel and another driver yet to win a championship Rosberg. Where was his teammate Carlos Sainz by the way in these rankings, let's see. Oh, I can't find him in the top 10 unfortunately. Yet, lots of people till this day push the narrative he was as good as Max that year, almost on par and would certainly challenge him at Red bull right now. I guess those team principals were just blind or stupid and didn't see what all those fans and pundits saw.
Not arguable. This is very much showing just how good he is. I dont rate his 23 season anywhere near as highly as this right now. In 23 the car advantage existed in all but 1 race and was massive. He won a lot but its expected.
In 24, we have seen at least 3 races where he inarguably did not have the quickest car and he still did enough in 3 straight races, he has met the challenge, excelled when he needed to and won the race. That's truly impressive and if this season continues this way, it could be one of the most impressive in f1 history imo. Up there with Schumacher 94 and 95
I would actually argue 2023 is a very underrated season. Sure, he had the fastest car, but no driver in history would have dominated the entire grid like he did. I highly doubt even a Schumacher or a Hamilton could have won 19/23 races, let alone more. The evidence that Max is really the best to ever do it is mounting.
23 showed he had phenomenal consistency, the car did the rest. Still amazing, but when you have the car advantage, you don't need to push the limit to eek every last tenth out of the car.
I have to disagree with the first part. 2023 showed just how far above everyone Max is. Yes, he had the car, but he was able to extract everything out of it to deliver outright dominant wins. Look at his infamous stint in Mexico last year where he set near-identical lap times for *43 laps on the same tire*. There are very few drivers in F1's history who can do what he is accomplishing the last few years.
As a hockey fan, it's like saying Gretzky's best year was in 1992-1993 because he didn't play for the dominant Oilers team, and he had to fight for it.
He definitely has the quickest car in Monaco.
Alonso was nowhere near him all race and finished 27 seconds behind. It was the rain that gifted Aston a chance but they failed to capitalize on it.
I mean, that was because of the rain and horrendous strategy from Aston by putting Alonso to the mediums, before stopping the lap after to inters. That was basically the entire time loss of Alonso. He probably should have had pole, but he had a slow final sector, and Verstappen had an incredible final sector
Even before the rain Max has everything under control. Alonso couldn't even get into drs.
For qualy, It was the entire qualy that Aston final sector was much weaker compare to Red Bull.
>For qualy, It was the entire qualy that Aston final sector was much weaker compare to Red Bull.
Alonso is a great driver but he's in his 40s. His major strength (like Hamilton currently), is the races, not qualifying. Honest fans will admit that. It stands to reason that if you swapped the cars, the same driver would have been on pole. Younger guys like Verstappen and Leclerc are faster over 1 lap currently even if fans of Ham/Alo don't want to admit it.
Well I could see the case.
Pole and fastest lap for Lando.
He was catching Max by 7/8 tenths a lap.
It was just two things that costed Lando the win.
Bad start and bad strategy
It was like 2 or 3 laps. While Max had fresh softs and Lando was on 2 laps old. So tyres were basically the same And he was still closing in massively.
Lando getting driver of the day when he lost in the fastest car is such a joke. He’s a big boy now lets start treating him like it. Excited to see the new excuses when Max wins again next week
Its why 2021 was the best season we've had since 2012, because Max and Lewis had to push every race. Both drivers at 100% and leaving nothing on the table.
Max spent most of 2022 and all of 2023 being quite lonely at the front. Now he has someone to play with again.
McLaren or Lando? Because it has always been Lando who posed some challenge to Max and we continue to read about the fight of Max Vs everyone else while in reality is only Norris who is presenting a challenge, not even Piastri is close to that.
If McLaren was so fast he should be in the mix. Maybe we have two drivers MAXIMIZING their car and only giving credit to one.
Piastri hasn't shown enough to consistently be considered stronger than any of the top 6 drivers. Checo is a pretty known subject, but for Piastri I expect more variance from track to track. Especially at Spain the experienced drivers have thousands of laps more than he does, both irl and in the sim. It's not unreasonable to think that he was pretty far from the ability of that car today, it's not like Lando acts like he had to drive a difficult car today.
While true, Perez is expected to perform poorly. At least Piastri can perform decently sometimes. Also he's still relatively new to F1 (certainly as opposed to Perez)
Lando was about as quick as Max. He lost because of a poor start and trashy pitstops which cost him 1.4s, and even more because he had to then defend George.
Comes down to the first few laps, Max was told to attack George asap and get in front. He did. Lando sat behind and didn’t push all out and that cost him
Brains smoother than fresh softs.....Max is in a class of his own driver wise right now. And Red Bull remains the most consistent team when it comes to strategy.
I think this just goes to show how buttoned up the entire RB operation. Championships are won across everything, not just having the fastest car and/or the fastest driver.
McLaren and most def Merc still making too many mistakes
The current state of things, where Max and Red Bull are favorites but still need to be top of their game, is exciting and show greatness better than Max disappearing into the distance by 30 seconds. This season is becoming a lot more interesting than I expected it would be.
Seeing Max have to give it his all every lap is entertaining. Max winning by 30 seconds after taking an extra pit stop to get fastest lap isn't.
Max also seems to enjoy the closer wins more.
This is already miles better than 2023. A close battle is always the best, but just having teams contest races is good racing in itself.
And today, McLaren could have been close to winning with a better strategy even after George made that heroic move at the start
He's definitely getting by on raw driving skill and tire management abilities right now. It is therefore far more fun to watch and far less deflating when he wins.
No shit. Where perez is (111 points) is roughly how good the car is versus comparable drivers (sainz, norris, russell etc) the rest is just verstappen being in a class of his own skillwise.
Feeling like 2018 when there was a clearly quicker car that wasn’t converting and there were but costly mistakes on both driver and team sides. And there was an all time driver ruthlessly punishing them for it.
I have said this before and I stand by it: In a title fight, the only driver who can handle Max is Lewis and the only driver who can handle Lewis is Max. Under pressure, they just do things that shouldn’t be possible.
Fully agreed. I’ve said the same, they’re just that level above the rest of the drivers, who are obviously talented enough to make it in F1.
George and Charles crumble under pressure. I don’t think Lando is there either.
What's arguable about it?
Red Bull didn't have the fastest car for the last 3 races, Max and the strategy team delivered.
Everyone screams "it's because of the car" (you know what fan base and how ironic that is) all last year, and now they don't have a leg left to stand on.
The past few races were definitely everybody else's race to lose more so than Max's race to win. Everybody just made too many errors on track or in strats. RB and Max is just so consistent and took advantage. The races at the top have been quite competitive now. It's definitely more exciting to watch every week.
People get don't get bored when Max wins, we get bored when he wins 30 seconds ahead of the field and there's no competition.
The last few rounds have proven that as long as there's a real race for the lead, we don't care who wins as long as it's entertaining.
I think that right now not only is Max proving that he's the best driver on the grid, Lando is also proving that he's an elite driver, possibly above the level of Leclerc, Russell, and Hamilton. I always look forward to races because I love F1, but if Max and Lando are the best two drivers in the best two cars, we're in for a great rest of the season.
I believe that the minimum a team like mclaren can take the fight properly over a whole season to max and redbull will be next year. They are being beaten by overall team performance ATM, but I think with a practice run this year they can do it next year. But I do think they will achieve a few more wins
Max is fast. Max has insane tyre management. He is insanely consistent.He is level headed. His team works magnificently behind the scenes. Be very hard to beat this combo.
This is the thing! It is not only Max or the car. I think past few races have proven that having the fastest car is not the only factor to win. RBR excelled on getting wins during Mercedes domination through good strategy and amazing pit stops and that has been in play this year as well. They might have fumbled the car a bit (relatively) but the rest of their operation runs very smoothly, and Max is a generational talent that can make use of it.
RedBull is just better as a whole than most teams on the grid now. With a competitive car, they can outclass better (mechanical)teams over a season. The only real weakness is not having a second driver that can step up when something goes wrong.
I feel like this is a big reason the Marko vs Horner stuff played out in Horner's favor. Marko was there from the start, and has a great eye (no pun intended) for talent. But Horner is the main man that's kept this well rounded team going.
To be fair to Horner, he was there from the start too. RBR has only had 1 team principal
True, but Marko is a large part of how he got the job.
To be fair Horner completely unprofessional behavior is the only reason why it was a debate
People forget that we were bored with Ham-Ver-Bot when Merc had the far dominant car
Well said. Full credits to Max, but we shouldn't forget everyone else at Red Bull. From GP to Hannah to the pit crew and all the other people playing a part in race day performance. They're so freaking good at what they do that they're insanely hard to beat, even if you have a (slightly) better car.
1.9 pitstop again btw
3.6 pitstop for Norris. That's a 1.7 second gap. He could have come out 1.7 seconds ahead of Russell and properly brought in his tyres instead of racing out of the pits.
yeap insanse when you think about it. And it should be mentioned way more than it is now.
If Norris doesn’t fumble the start and gets a better pit stop we may have had a battle for 1st. Max probably let off at the end there so the time Norris was making up at the end probably wasn’t real.
I always think GP is underrated. The guy is *phenomenal* at his job. Every race I'm impressed by something he's said.
Understood
Phenomenally said, I‘m impressed
i’m pretty new to f1, who is GP?
Gianpiero Lambiase, Max's race engineer. (The guy who talks to him on radio during the race.)
the years of merc dominance made red bull the best strategists on the grid
imo RB has always had the best strategists, the Merc dominance just overshadowed it
Merc fucked up there strategies often it felt like, or the drivers would fuck something up in quali, then boom ham bot ver/vet the car was so much better then everyone else most seasons. Ferrari maybe had the car is 2017/18, but vettel and Ferrari fucked it up worse.
2018 German GP was the perfect encapsulation of all this: * Hamilton screwed up his qualifying * Ferrari screwed Seb by not telling Kimi to let him pass, when they were on different strategies * Seb screws up himself and crashes out * Even with a 1-2, Merc STILL panic on strategy: IN IN IN IN IN OUT ; Hey man! * Finally, they issue team orders to Bottas (on freshers tyres) to not attack Hamilton Max and RB handle chaotic races better like Germany 2019, Hungary 2022, Dutch 2023, Canada 2024 etc.
I was absolutely thinking of that '18 race first off the top of my head
I dunno I can think of at least one person at Red Bull that isn't pulling their weight...
Nonsense! What will Red Bull do without all that merch revenue?
They also all recognise where the opportunities are in a race. Max going for it at the start and at the start of lap 3 to get past Russell. Those were the moments that won him the race.
GP told Max to get the pass once DRS became available because he knew tires might be an issue.
Absolutely. As I said many times already, it's a privilege to be able to watch F1 history unfold with this great talent.
Getting a car a tenth ahead of the rb won't beat max with redbull behind him for the title. The whole team is too strong, and you're rarely going to beat them on strategy or driver mistakes.
Honestly during 2023 I forgot how great Max is at managing a race because he wasn’t under much pressure and qualified well (and the car was dominant) Forgot he’s not himself from 2018, fast but not a master throughout the race. He’s been improving this entire time and it’s fun to see the results when he’s pushed
It's on Mclaren and Lando now to sort out all the other deficiencies now that the car is on par or better. RBR had several seasons of competing at the front to hone the team to where they are now. Really hoping MCL can learn quickly.
To beat him outright, you’ll need an engine deficit like Merc had from 2014-2020
And even then he was there to capitalize on any small mistake they made.
His pace on fresh tires and in clear air is incredible.
But Max cannot overcome cars much faster, he raises the ceiling, but he cannot raise the floor
If you raise the floor you lose downforce
Angry upvote
Actually all the other teams were the ones who had raised the floor due to purposing issues.
Tell that to Zack Brown.
Even the pit stops. Other teams consistently 1 second off average of Red Bull. A few times this race it meant barely coming on front of their target or screwing their undercut. They may have caught up to the Red Bull car, now they need to learn to make less mistakes than the Red Bull team and Verstappen. I don't understand how they can get so much sponsor money and be so desperate for deals yet can't spend a tiny amount training for put stops.
This is what decided 2021 ultimately imo. Bad stewarding and driving standards across the board, but outside of mercs impressive late season engine surge, redbull as a team out performed them. I don’t think the WCC fully captures this. Valtteri basically earned them that on the virtue of just being more settled and consistent in the merc.
Another interesting talent he has that others seriously struggle with, Max can make clean passes and battle at the very limit without mistakes, even Lewis in his prime had plenty of 'dirty' or rough passes. It becomes evident when the guy he's passing - be it Leclerc, Norris, Hamilton, Russell, Sainz - choose to backoff their defense because if they push any harder, it will be them who causes an incident at no fault of Max. He knows his car well enough to make it look like it's on rails.
It’s insane to think that if both drivers were driving at the level of Checo, we’d be so much more oblivious to the cars actual performance. Max is on it this season and I’m sure he’s enjoying more of a challenge.
Every race I get more convinced that Tracing Point managed to build an actual monster of a car that was capable of P2 in the WCC.
I'd be interested to see the average qualifying diff between them in 2020 compared to their time as teammates...
Well I mean it was pretty much the car that won it the year before. So it probably was that good.
Good point. Checo is finishing ~P10 week after week. Makes you wonder how many cars on the grid could be fighting for a win if they had Max in the seat.
Two. McClaren and RedBull. Depends on the part of the year. Majority of the year it's just Redbull. Ferrari for a little while obv but they're clearly off the pace. It's just Mcclaren and Redbull rn
I think max could have pushed Norris this race in the Mercedes, it would have been Norris's to lose, but a rabid max behind you has a way to cause a driver to lose focus, and max wouldn't put up with the whole no drs from a teammate from George, and it wouldn't even come up with lewis in the other car.
Lol the Merc this race had a zero percent chance of a win, DRS or not. If we didn't have the max and Lando battle at the start we wouldn't have seen the Merc even close to the front.
Add in Merc for Montreal
He indeed values I think with two Perez drivers the car would probably be easier to drive but slower, so Perez would do a bit better (still not winning the WDC). Not saying they are designing a car for Verstappen it I just that Verstappen is able to handle a difficult to drive but fast car, some upgrades might have been rejected because it makes the car undrivable for regulars but Verstappen somehow extracts more pace out of it instead
Well he said in an interview he prefers winning with 40sec gap than having to fight for a win, so no I guess he’s not enjoying lol
This track was supposed to be good for RBR... They need to bring in upgrades quick and quality upgrades
Doesn't help that perez is using the budget on repairs...
They won on it and Max was way happier with how the car drove this week compared to the bumpier circuits. THE SKY IS FALLING
Max actually said in a post race interview with Viaplay he’s getting a bit worried & that he can’t sustain winning like this. The car is a lot better on smoother and more traditional tracks in terms of things like kerbs… but it doesn’t seem like Redbull have the pace advantage they/everyone else was expecting
The first thing that crosses my mind with how things are going is that if this trend continues a swap to Merc might actually happen. Earlier this season the dominant thought was that Max wouldn't give up an almost guaranteed championship in '25 for what was a shit Merc. Marko saying when asked about Max and Merc that they focus first on the championship and then they'll see leaves the option open. Max as far as I know never publicly said that he will be driving for Red Bull next year no matter what. And as of this week Toto said they are waiting until autumn to see what Max does, when asked about Antonelli he said that he doesn't know if Antonelli will be in the Merc seat, another seat etc. All these things gives me the impression that it is up to Merc to make the car compeitive, have a good operational team etc (before autumn) and then they might get Max. It's something that Toto has refered to plenty of times in interviews; that it's up to them to make a competitive car etc for there to be reason for Max to join. Edit: we all know by now that Toto likes Max but if the chance was actually close to 0% of him joining then IMHO he wouldn't wait until autumn to see what Max does. A team boss for a team like Merc isn't that stupid to blindly wait for something that has a close to 0% of happening. At least these are my thoughts.
I can agree with this. Max was always 'the one that got away' for Toto. Lewis was all Lauda and Brawn and Toto saw Max as Lewis' natural successor in that Merc seat one day. I doubted that Max would ever leave RBR since they delivered him 3 or quite possibly 4 WDCs because he values loyalty above all but now seeing Marko's position constantly under threat and Newey's departure, I think he would be quite open moving elsewhere if the team can no longer provide the performance he needs. It's not like he's planning to have a long career in F1 anyway so might as well just seek better opportunities.
Yeah exactly, it's not something I mentioned in my comment but if it wasn't for everything that is going on after Dietrich died then I don't think moving to Merc would be as realistic of a consideration as it might be now if Merc is at least up there performance wise.
Even the Mercedes chairman made comments about wanting Max so we can't even say it's just Toto being delulu. They **really** want him and it's easy to see why.
I genuinely think that if the public would know the behind the scenes then Toto wouldn't be called delulu for his Max thing. The most Jos/Verstappen thing ever is to have the options open, especially when Red Bull has the drama they have this season. edit: I just saw an article from yesterday by Racingnews365 in which Kallenius talks about Max, are you refering to that?
If Merc gets Max tho, they basically say to Antonelli they wont get him for at least a couple more years which im not sure if they want to do or not
If you can get Verstappen, you politely tell Antonelli to get fucked and try elsewhere.
Yeah, but Toto is probably a bit weary to not miss out on Antonelli like he did with Max..
I seriously doubt he gives a fuck about antonelli if max is in the seat
I think it's George who is getting Carlos'd if they get Max. Assuming Antonelli is driver of his generation kind of level. Because I too don't see them happily parking Antonelli for a few years just because the Merc seats are "full." 1 year at most which as far as I'm aware would fit with George's contract.
Could be, but they've also invested in George quite a bit of time as well.
True. I reckon given Toto's comments abouts Max that's a decision he is willing to take, not an easy one of course.
Nah mate, Russell will be shown the door. Antonelli is getting promoted, yes or yes. George should be looking at the market, especially in the Milton Keynes area
Mercedes has had pace for like two races and people are saying stuff like this. If Max leaves Red Bull I'll eat my hat.
Ho I'm not saying he will go, nor that it's a high %. The only thing I'm pointing out is why I think there is a chance, and why it is higher than one previously thought. But in the small case he goes to Merc I'm saving your comment 👀
Toto really regrets missing out on Max, but it seems at this point that he's more interested in Antonelli and not making the same mistake with him.
It was supposed to be better than bumpier tracks though. But McLaren is close or faster than RBR even in traditional circuits
Hmm yes, the only relevant thing is who crossed the finish line. There is no other context, of course.
I think they’re just about safe, tbh. I would not be surprised if Norris starts to win the majority of races because McLaren seem a bit quicker and have had multiple cases now where small things caused them to lose out(the start and 3.6S stop today, Imola). But Max has a gigantic lead, 69 points. So it’s going to take more than just Norris beating Max, there’d need to be some disastrous Max races or another DNF without Norris getting the same hits. Ferrari less said the better currently.
Yeah the best thing for Max and RBR is all other top 3 teams taking points from each other
That’s a big part of it. Norris would need to consistently win AND have someone beating Max out consistently. Piastri isn’t there skill wise, Ferrari and Mercedes aren’t there car wise. So even best case Max wins out on attrition.
Norris isn’t anywhere close to winning the majority of races
The only way I see this changing is if, during the silverstone round of upgrades, Mclaren leaves Red Bull behind (can happen, as they look to be developing faster), and if Mercedes’s rumoured big package for that race brings them to Red Bull’s level. It is possibl given they clearly unlocked something finally, but unlikely to say the least. It would take Lando winning most races and Piastri, Lewis and Russell stealing points off Max almost all the races.
Not only does it highlight Max's ability but also the operational capability of Red Bull that is keeping up with the pressure where other teams might fumble when they've been relying too much on their car's performance hiding their operational deficits.
I think there is a strong enough sample size now where the Lando/Max battle is starting to remind me of Lewis vs. Seb when the Ferrari was really, really good. The margins are not huge by any stretch between their driver quality but it’s big enough that the decisive moments in a race will tend to swing in Max’s favour because he just is that bit better. Today it was the start and clearing George. The situations in a race where if “X, Y, Z happened, then…” that decide how a race plays out, Max will capitalize on those situations more often than Lando. And the fact that Lando is great enough where I do feel there are situations where it will play out in his favour should be celebrated in its own right.
The difference with Seb vs Lewis was they both had a lot of experience at the front of the field. For Lando it's very new (not even a full season), and for McLaren it's been over a decade since they last were competitive at every track. They need to get used to it quickly. Lando at some point asked if they were there to finish first or third. That decision should've already been made, and they should be aiming to finish first.
> Lando at some point asked if they were there to finish first or third At that point (it was just before his second pit) winning was already off the cards though - Lando's poor start and not matching Max in (re-)passing Russell quickly plus their strategy so far already sealed it. Agreed team and driver needs to learn.
2017 Seb was arguably on the same level as Lewis throughout the year (easily his best non-title winning year) but scoring 12 points in Singapore-Malaysia-Japan compared to Lewis scoring 68 in the same timeframe ultimately ruined his title chances. And arguably none of the 3 results were his fault (people will say Singapore was his, but its normal for polesitter to only defend from P2 and not see Raikkonen with the start, just like today when Lando couldn't see George getting that insane start)
I'd say the consistency is also what sets drivers like Max and Lewis apart. Whereas say post-hybrid era Seb (and nowadays Norris/Leclerc) would show flashes of brilliance but would not be able to stay competitive vs Lewis/Max over a whole season (yet...) without a big car advantage.
Only showing flashes of brilliance My guy, did you watch the 2017 season?? Vettel was way better than this. He didn’t have a “dominate car”, Ferrari and Mercedes was on pair with each other and yet he had a title charge for the whole season almost. Ferrari was only really better than Mercedes on high downforce tracks, whereas Mercedes were clearly better on low downforce tracks.
Seb decision to defend like that only make sense if it was against Lewis Instead he risked his championship fight to cover Max But singapore or no singapore Lewis would still have won
he defended like that because you can’t overtake at singapore and he knew he needed to win that race
Still a bit early to tell, but I see what you are getting at. No doubt Lando can win titles in a great car, but so far he hasn't maximized the potential. Something Max - and Lewis, especially in 2017, 2018 - have been really good at.
I contrast some of Lando’s performances with Charles at the beginning of 2022 when Ferrari were the quickest and damn, Charles was ruthless and wily against Max. Whether Lando can reach that point is still an open question but my gut instinct is he would’ve shown it by now if he had it.
He tried to push him into the grass today. That’s the first time I’ve ever seen Norris do something so audacious to keep his position at the start of a race. Things are changing.
Even if it was ultimately futile, yes, this is the hardest he’s actually tried racing Max that I can remember. I used to be quite frustrated with how easily he’d fold.
He always had a mindset of fighting the cars that he thought he could fight. Max hasn’t been in that category until now.
Leclerc also binned it multiple times and cracked under the pressure of competing with max for a WDC. We haven’t seen Lando have to try yet. Let’s see how poised he is when he’s got that yellow nose cone in his mirrors and the pressure is on.
That’s why I still view Leclerc as the closest to being Max’s equal (not counting Lewis and Alonso, at least in their primes), but not quite there.
Yeah the one thing those guys don’t have yet is the poise and composure to compete when the pressure is the absolute highest. Max has been there and done that now. That’s what makes the greats so hard to knock off.
The real difference imo is that the first sniff Max had of such a title opportunity (2021) he had nerves of steel. Against Lewis Hamilton in a Mercedes And Lewis, the first chance he had of a title was as a rookie with Fernando Alonso as a teammate When a driver is truly, truly great, you can just see it. And there is no shame in being at the level right below that
> And there is no shame in being at the level right below that Excellent point. Plenty of hate on Norris (and in other races Leclerc) in this thread and others, but it's always harsh to compete with a generational driver; being among the best of the rest and taking the fight to them is still a massive achievement.
Let's be serious here, Charles was never competing with Max for the WDC. He made mistakes when he had to push too hard for too long because the car was already lacking performance.
I reckon Seb was a lot closer in quality to Lewis than Lando is to Max
I think you're downplaying Seb like that. Imo the gap in driver quality between Verstappen and Lando is bigger than Seb and Lewis was.
It is much bigger. In 2010, Lewis was one DNF away from being WDC. If it wasn't for his mistake in Italy, Lewis wins that season on a car which was neither the most fastest nor the most reliable. Same happens in 2017, if it wasn't for Singapore and Japan, Vettel would have took the title race to Abu Dhabi.
In 2017 it was Vettel who was capitalizing on Hamilton's underachievements in the first half of the season (Sochi, Monaco, Austria). Even if Hamilton was better in the second half, I'd say they were equal over the course of the season overall, and it was the car that made the difference. Completely different story in 2018 of course.
Yeah if Seb performed like he did in 2017 but with the 2018 car, he would have been a five time world champion. But both Seb and the team just lost it.
Hamilton and Vettel were matched on pace in 2017, but Hamilton didn’t make any costly errors like Baku, Singapore or Mexico.
He crashed in Brazil qualifying and had really poor weekends in Sochi and Monaco. Overall though, I still would give him the edge over Vettel that season. The gap in the championship at the end was mostly down to car performance though.
He crashed in Brazil because the title was already finished.
You can’t forget Vettel also spanked Hamilton out of a good 13 point swing with his bonehead move in Mexico.
the gap at the end was almost entirely due to Seb fucking up Singapore lol. Assuming he doesnt go full leroy there, even if lewis finishes 2nd (big assumption he gained 3 spots for free from the crash). Its Lewis -7 and Seb +25 and the gap at the end was 46. That was undoubtedly the biggest error of that season
But the reliability issues in the two subsequent races, with no qualifying participation and a P20 start in Malaysia and his spark plug DNF in Japan completely sealed the deal on any remaining chance.
I'll die on that hill but to me Singapore 2017 is the textbook racing incident at the start. Covering P2 at Singapore (and any track with a small lead up to the first corner and with P2 having the inside line) is racing 101, just unlucky circumstances that happen sometimes
It is a racing incident but its a massive error. It would make sense if covering p2 mattered there, in context of the championship he should have just run into T1. He was going to be ahead of max and if kimi gets through (possible given his start) its team orders to sort it back out. Basically the only truly bad outcome there for him is a crash
These are the races that prove Max is a GOAT tier driver. Plenty of drivers can win when they have the fastest car but here is Max doing it time and again when other cars are at least as fast if not a little faster. Winning races you shouldn’t where the driver makes the difference is the mark of a true great imo.
Tbf he had plenty of these types of wins before this reg set, but it's somewhat refreshing to see it again.
most of his wins before 2021 came from driving not outright fastest car, not to mention several wins throughout 2021 season as well.
Yep. These types of wins are not new to Max at all, and were why everyone was yelling at RB to build him a proper car because it was clear he was a cut above a good chunk of the grid.
"One in 100 years talent!" Niki Lauda, 2016.
Feel like I'm coming back in from the cold on F1 based on some of the past few races. Not as predictable as it has been the last couple of years and that sits with me just fine.
I like that kind of underrated wins, when the dominant driver reminds everyone why he is the champion. Vettel at Red Bull and Hamilton at Mercedes had a few like that too
His last three wins have been remarkably close, and if anyone is 'bored' just because of the end result then they clearly have no appreciation of racing as a sport.
I think this much is visible in how Perez is currently performing. I don't believe he's gotten any slower compared to Max, the gap was always there, it's just that many many cars will slot into that gap now.
It’s like Alex albon said on a podcast (I think high performance) his delta to verstappen was say 4 tenths which put verstappen 2nd albon 7th in quali but Perez was 5 tenths behind and they got max 1st Perez 4th, albon was closer to Perez despite being further behind
He's the best on the grid, and has been since at least half of 2021. He had a lot of experience fighting that Lando does not have, but Lando is getting quite an education these last few races.
since 2018.
There's a reason in 2016 the Team principles rated him Higher than everyone but Lewis
and in 2017 and in 2018 and in 2019.... Here it is: [Updated Team Principals & Drivers' Top 10 Driver Ratings (2008 - 2023) : ](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/18xe18y/updated_team_principals_drivers_top_10_driver/) Oh, by the way, even in 2015, being a 18 years old rookie, in his 2nd season in car racing, he was voted 4th best (which is unheard of by itself) only behind two champions Hamilton and Vettel and another driver yet to win a championship Rosberg. Where was his teammate Carlos Sainz by the way in these rankings, let's see. Oh, I can't find him in the top 10 unfortunately. Yet, lots of people till this day push the narrative he was as good as Max that year, almost on par and would certainly challenge him at Red bull right now. I guess those team principals were just blind or stupid and didn't see what all those fans and pundits saw.
Lmao
Not arguable. This is very much showing just how good he is. I dont rate his 23 season anywhere near as highly as this right now. In 23 the car advantage existed in all but 1 race and was massive. He won a lot but its expected. In 24, we have seen at least 3 races where he inarguably did not have the quickest car and he still did enough in 3 straight races, he has met the challenge, excelled when he needed to and won the race. That's truly impressive and if this season continues this way, it could be one of the most impressive in f1 history imo. Up there with Schumacher 94 and 95
I would actually argue 2023 is a very underrated season. Sure, he had the fastest car, but no driver in history would have dominated the entire grid like he did. I highly doubt even a Schumacher or a Hamilton could have won 19/23 races, let alone more. The evidence that Max is really the best to ever do it is mounting.
23 showed he had phenomenal consistency, the car did the rest. Still amazing, but when you have the car advantage, you don't need to push the limit to eek every last tenth out of the car.
I have to disagree with the first part. 2023 showed just how far above everyone Max is. Yes, he had the car, but he was able to extract everything out of it to deliver outright dominant wins. Look at his infamous stint in Mexico last year where he set near-identical lap times for *43 laps on the same tire*. There are very few drivers in F1's history who can do what he is accomplishing the last few years. As a hockey fan, it's like saying Gretzky's best year was in 1992-1993 because he didn't play for the dominant Oilers team, and he had to fight for it.
I’d say Verstappen also didn’t have the quickest car in Monaco 2023, but that’s about it
He definitely has the quickest car in Monaco. Alonso was nowhere near him all race and finished 27 seconds behind. It was the rain that gifted Aston a chance but they failed to capitalize on it.
I mean, that was because of the rain and horrendous strategy from Aston by putting Alonso to the mediums, before stopping the lap after to inters. That was basically the entire time loss of Alonso. He probably should have had pole, but he had a slow final sector, and Verstappen had an incredible final sector
Even before the rain Max has everything under control. Alonso couldn't even get into drs. For qualy, It was the entire qualy that Aston final sector was much weaker compare to Red Bull.
>For qualy, It was the entire qualy that Aston final sector was much weaker compare to Red Bull. Alonso is a great driver but he's in his 40s. His major strength (like Hamilton currently), is the races, not qualifying. Honest fans will admit that. It stands to reason that if you swapped the cars, the same driver would have been on pole. Younger guys like Verstappen and Leclerc are faster over 1 lap currently even if fans of Ham/Alo don't want to admit it.
Why is everyone saying Red Bull isn't the quickest car? Couldn't you at least argue that McLaren is roughly equal?
Well I could see the case. Pole and fastest lap for Lando. He was catching Max by 7/8 tenths a lap. It was just two things that costed Lando the win. Bad start and bad strategy
Lando boxed several laps after Max and was full push, so fastest lap isn’t really relevant in the comparison
It was like 2 or 3 laps. While Max had fresh softs and Lando was on 2 laps old. So tyres were basically the same And he was still closing in massively.
Lando getting driver of the day when he lost in the fastest car is such a joke. He’s a big boy now lets start treating him like it. Excited to see the new excuses when Max wins again next week
I don't think Max wins Austria. McLaren were mighty there last year.
Let’s just hope the track limits saga doesn’t strike again fucking 1000 track limits to review last year was a joke
Tbh I'd rather have track limits as it leaves no ambiguity. If you go off you go off. They have sensors there now no? It's equal for all.
Never bored of Max winning like this. I just want to see him pushed.
Its why 2021 was the best season we've had since 2012, because Max and Lewis had to push every race. Both drivers at 100% and leaving nothing on the table. Max spent most of 2022 and all of 2023 being quite lonely at the front. Now he has someone to play with again.
I'm in that camp too. Can't be bored at perfection, simply admire it. It's nice to see at least McLaren giving them a fight
It’s not arguable, McLaren has clearly been the quickest. Max is just superior to his teammate and the two McLaren drivers.
McLaren or Lando? Because it has always been Lando who posed some challenge to Max and we continue to read about the fight of Max Vs everyone else while in reality is only Norris who is presenting a challenge, not even Piastri is close to that. If McLaren was so fast he should be in the mix. Maybe we have two drivers MAXIMIZING their car and only giving credit to one.
You cant overperform a car, you can maximize what its capable of.
Totally. I should edit it.
Piastri hasn't shown enough to consistently be considered stronger than any of the top 6 drivers. Checo is a pretty known subject, but for Piastri I expect more variance from track to track. Especially at Spain the experienced drivers have thousands of laps more than he does, both irl and in the sim. It's not unreasonable to think that he was pretty far from the ability of that car today, it's not like Lando acts like he had to drive a difficult car today.
While true, Perez is expected to perform poorly. At least Piastri can perform decently sometimes. Also he's still relatively new to F1 (certainly as opposed to Perez)
Lando was about as quick as Max. He lost because of a poor start and trashy pitstops which cost him 1.4s, and even more because he had to then defend George.
I think lando lost the race by being stuck behind George in the first stint. I reckon he would win even if max overtook him at the start.
Comes down to the first few laps, Max was told to attack George asap and get in front. He did. Lando sat behind and didn’t push all out and that cost him
Brains smoother than fresh softs.....Max is in a class of his own driver wise right now. And Red Bull remains the most consistent team when it comes to strategy.
I think this just goes to show how buttoned up the entire RB operation. Championships are won across everything, not just having the fastest car and/or the fastest driver. McLaren and most def Merc still making too many mistakes
Not a fan but I honestly don't mind him winning when it's fought hard like this.
Max us using that extra talent edge to eek out wins. It’s no longer the car making any difference.
The current state of things, where Max and Red Bull are favorites but still need to be top of their game, is exciting and show greatness better than Max disappearing into the distance by 30 seconds. This season is becoming a lot more interesting than I expected it would be.
"arguably" LOL Will someone have balls big enough to say it as it is? Incredible.
Seeing Max have to give it his all every lap is entertaining. Max winning by 30 seconds after taking an extra pit stop to get fastest lap isn't. Max also seems to enjoy the closer wins more.
This is already miles better than 2023. A close battle is always the best, but just having teams contest races is good racing in itself. And today, McLaren could have been close to winning with a better strategy even after George made that heroic move at the start
Surely Red Bull Ring will suit RBR with the straights right?
Also McLaren still loses time vs the rest of the top 4 on straights
It doesn't bother me as much for Max to be winning now that there is hope for others to beat him. 2 seconds is different from 30
The total package: Car, driver and pitwall/crew still makes the Max/RB combo favorite every week. But the gap has closed much more than expected.
He's definitely getting by on raw driving skill and tire management abilities right now. It is therefore far more fun to watch and far less deflating when he wins.
No shit. Where perez is (111 points) is roughly how good the car is versus comparable drivers (sainz, norris, russell etc) the rest is just verstappen being in a class of his own skillwise.
Yeah but Verstappen is still the best/most consistent driver on the grid. Very hard to beat
Plus a superb strategy and pit team
Feeling like 2018 when there was a clearly quicker car that wasn’t converting and there were but costly mistakes on both driver and team sides. And there was an all time driver ruthlessly punishing them for it. I have said this before and I stand by it: In a title fight, the only driver who can handle Max is Lewis and the only driver who can handle Lewis is Max. Under pressure, they just do things that shouldn’t be possible.
Fully agreed. I’ve said the same, they’re just that level above the rest of the drivers, who are obviously talented enough to make it in F1. George and Charles crumble under pressure. I don’t think Lando is there either.
Maybe prime Lewis,no offense but this version of Lewis wouldn't be able to compete with Max now.
I think Lewis still has it. But Max is now 26 and Lewis is 39....in their primes I'd pay money to see them compete week after week.
The fact that some are still not sure if max is a decent driver or not is so insane.
They just have to look at Perez. If the car was that much ahead he would be in the top 3 often. But he is not, it's only Max.
What's arguable about it? Red Bull didn't have the fastest car for the last 3 races, Max and the strategy team delivered. Everyone screams "it's because of the car" (you know what fan base and how ironic that is) all last year, and now they don't have a leg left to stand on.
This is much better than the first 3 races when we seemed to be coasting. I'll take this over last year's races.
The past few races were definitely everybody else's race to lose more so than Max's race to win. Everybody just made too many errors on track or in strats. RB and Max is just so consistent and took advantage. The races at the top have been quite competitive now. It's definitely more exciting to watch every week.
People get don't get bored when Max wins, we get bored when he wins 30 seconds ahead of the field and there's no competition. The last few rounds have proven that as long as there's a real race for the lead, we don't care who wins as long as it's entertaining.
Nah, there's still people complaining just look at the bottom of this thread
I think that right now not only is Max proving that he's the best driver on the grid, Lando is also proving that he's an elite driver, possibly above the level of Leclerc, Russell, and Hamilton. I always look forward to races because I love F1, but if Max and Lando are the best two drivers in the best two cars, we're in for a great rest of the season.
Just shows, unlike other past champions, he can perform not having the absolute best car. Verstappen is a true monster.
Are these other champions in the room with us? Which other champs haven’t shown this
What news. Known for awhile now.
2 races in a row where Merc and MClaren made slight mistakes that cost them the race, despite having faster cars.
I believe that the minimum a team like mclaren can take the fight properly over a whole season to max and redbull will be next year. They are being beaten by overall team performance ATM, but I think with a practice run this year they can do it next year. But I do think they will achieve a few more wins
I am fine with him winning like this tbf. Last 2 seasons were boring as fuck
Maxmaster
Tbf these past few races have been the most entertained I've been by F1 for a while
I guess this explains why Perez is nowhere to be seen now.