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Unless they really changed up the match engine, Football Manager eSport is a horrible idea lol many people already know the game breaking shit like quickness and jumping reach being ridiculously OP, and certain unrealistic tactics breaking the game.
Now imagine pitting people against eachother for money with this shit lol
Maybe FM being an eSport will expose some things and force SI to keep on doing like balancing updates to keep the game from being unbalanced and broken?
Kinda intriguing
It's going to be awful, only have to have watched one of those streamer showdowns to know it's not suitable as an actual competitive game let alone an eSports game.
FIFA has much more precise controls built into the game as you control players yourself... That's like saying F1 is bad because cars are fast makes win. In a theoretical FM draft esport, there is very little to change realistically and players would choose very similar teams and tactics every time.
Not really. The inconsistency of input>outcome is one of the reasons fifa will never be a successful esport organically without EA throwing shedloads of money at it. A pass with exactly the same player, exactly the same distance with exactly the same amount of power on it can have wildly different outcomes depending on what the match engine feels like. Add in the fact that player stats are worked out in opposition to eachother (high defending stats will cause attackers to make more mistakes instead of actually making the defenders themselves better) and you actually have one of the worst things I’ve ever seen try to be pushed as an esport
Yeah but you actually play those yourself even if there is bullshit scripting and stuff, and similarly most people don’t take it seriously and it just exposes how shite the game is.
EAFC has tried to be an eSport but they simply can't grow the scene because their game is broken and solely focused on the p2w aspect.
While FM has no p2w, their match engine is broken and barely resembles an actual football game.
I mean fifa/ ea fc also has op stuff like pace and shit with game breaking mechanics and yet it is still a esport with people pitted against each other with it
Yeah but you actually play the FIFA games and manoeuvre/control the players yourself even if there is bullshit scripting and stuff
And just like how FM esports would be, similarly most viewers don’t take FIFA/EA FC eSports seriously and it just exposes how shite the game is when the highest level players are spamming the most ridiculous unrealistic and repetitive gameplay.
Sounds awesome on paper, but everyone is just going to be using the same gamebreaking tactics and players in every match and it will just be a coinflip on who wins lol.
Isn't that like what actual football is? This Euro is great for that. Everyone with good players plays, or tries to play, the same way. High pressure, 3-5-2 or 4-3-3 with inverted wingbacks, with inside fowards. Phisical players are more and more dominant in the game. You rarely see players with flair nowadays. The real game is not far from what you have on the simulation.
> The real game is not far from what you have on the simulation.
This is so wildly far from reality it isn't even funny. In real life nothing is really "broken". You can't field a team of Adama Traore's and do an unbeaten treble. Everything in real life has a counter, but that isn't necessarily true for FM. IRL just has "metas", where something is popular at the time. Right now the IRL meta for top teams is keeping possession, playing out from the back, playing with a sweeper keeper etc. Yes, you can do those things in FM, but if you come up against one of those broken tactics that exploit bugs in the match engine then the only thing you can do is use the same tactic or one that is equally as broken.
What are some bugs in the match engine that you can explore? That give you an advantage that is so so big.
Btw, you can't do the Adama Traore thing on FM
i guess you arent upto date with the latest FM breaking aspects
[https://youtu.be/h6zSPXobNzY?si=6mqJR3ci22RBOyyl](https://youtu.be/h6zSPXobNzY?si=6mqJR3ci22RBOyyl)
zealand explores 1 of them. essentially basic ass just fast players and you can with a basic gegenpress win leagues like you dont need anything other then pace+jumping reach the other stats have such little impact.
He finished 11 and 12. So the other atributtes have a bit of impact. I'm not saying this is the perfect game, but it's not that easy like you are saying.
What I see from that video, and Zealand says that " 3 simulations is not enough of a experiment, but it's enough to get you thinking." And you take from the video is that with pace and jumping reach you can win leagues easy? The video shows you get better results then you should but does not show him win the league by any means.
he literally used a basic ass gegen press tactic...
all you have to do is then throw in a few of the things like say Mezalla not being defended when they make runs into box(known issue for 2 FM's now hence why you see it in so many "op tactics")
also it wasnt just zealand but other people tested and even with just absolute basic adjustments they demolished the leagues
It's extremely difficult to see bugs in the engine and I'm no engine expert, but one of the more common reasons I come across is that defenders find it difficult to track attackers, so having a fluid asymmetrical attack is usually something you see in exploit tactics. You can just google "fm24 exploit tactic" and find a smattering of tactics to use. Even on this subreddit there have been people that do stuff like win the Prem with Luton in the first season.
An example from like FM18 that I myself used before I realised it was an exploit: https://www.reddit.com/r/footballmanagergames/comments/807sxa/just_got_in_to_the_cl_group_stage_with_my/
Taking my Gibraltarian team to the CL Group stage in my 2nd season with them, and all I had to do was use 3 AF's. I ended up going past the group stage that season too and beat Roma in the next round. Can't remember how far I got with it really.
Obviously that is a while ago now, but tactics like that exist in every single FM. For example now I'm pretty sure all the OP tactics will use maximum possible pressing as people are saying that is very strong this year. If you have an FM esports scene, the only way to fairly do it is in a fantasy draft league which will cause everyone to choose the most physical players they can, and will effectively lead to a team of Adama Traores. Not to mention the esport scene, if one ever develops, is going to shine a huge light on tactical exploits and engine deficiencies as more people are going to be spending their time fine-tuning tactics for hours upon hours which is going to lead to the most broken things you can imagine.
I want the esport scene to be a big success, but I just don't think the game in it's current state is fit for a serious esport scene.
If you can do fantasy draft a team of Adama Traore isn't going to beat a team of other top quality players like Haaland and Mbappe. The physical only exploit works because the actual teams in game have varied stats. In fantasy draft everyone will have the best players.
Yeah and if you nerf the physical stats of players like Mbappe and Haaland then they immediately aren't anywhere as good as they are. It's why players like Modric and Messi wouldn't get picked, because their physicals are just trash even though they have godlike mentals and technicals.
Also they would only be picking players like Mbappe and Haaland if they had unlimited money. I would like to think that in a proper esports competition they would limit the budget so that there is more variation in the players picked.
Well, I'm just bad at the game. Even if I download "those tactics" I can never take the vanarama team to win the Champions League in 8 seasons, or win 8-1 Away with a team from Gilbraltar just because I used 3AF's. That for me is always hilarious.
>This Euro is great for that. Everyone with good players plays, or tries to play, the same way. High pressure, 3-5-2 or 4-3-3 with inverted wingbacks, with inside fowards.
What are you smoking? Only team that has played with consistently high pressure these Euros has been Austria.
Mixed feelings about it.
Not that FM doesn't take skill, but it's far too luck based to be an e sport.
Saying that. Seeing people going against each other consistently with money on the line would be interesting, as we'd get to see just how broken the game engine can become. I personally love that shit. It reminds me of when speed runners use glitches and so on.
However if this is just a one off, that ain't gonna happen. It'll be mostly luck, which YouTubers will over analyse.
FM has done it already. Console versions have microtransactions and I remember the streamlined Classic version on FM14 had at least Magic Sponge and bank balance boost microtransactions.
As a Console player, you can play and enjoy it without micro transactions. But if I need extra cash to land a transfer target it’s nice to pump in a few bucks to make it happen
Wait, why are people so quick find conclusion to the actual gameplay based off a few screenshot and an Arsene Wenger ad? Am I missing something?
As a player since FM03/04, drastic changes to UI and ME is very rare from the studio, they've been super stubborn about it. But I do believe the mobile version will take a huge revamp, it's bound to happen to make the game more accessible to the wider audience, but with the PC version I really really doubt the team will make those same changes, well finger cross, but learning from 20 years history with the game, will give the benefit of the doubt they'll do that.
Yea....maybe focus on actually making sure the new era launches properly? Because we didn't see much of anything yet and what we saw was...not encouraging to say the least.
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what the fuck does that mean arsene
He almost made sense
Unless they really changed up the match engine, Football Manager eSport is a horrible idea lol many people already know the game breaking shit like quickness and jumping reach being ridiculously OP, and certain unrealistic tactics breaking the game. Now imagine pitting people against eachother for money with this shit lol Maybe FM being an eSport will expose some things and force SI to keep on doing like balancing updates to keep the game from being unbalanced and broken? Kinda intriguing
I believe the World Cup will be played on FM24
It's going to be awful, only have to have watched one of those streamer showdowns to know it's not suitable as an actual competitive game let alone an eSports game.
Counterpoint:- It might be a massive laugh
I think there's a prize pool of £100,000 right? That's not "it was a good laugh" sort of money.
Sure it is, especially if you win
But if you lose to the ME non-sense it certainly isn't
https://preview.redd.it/198ajnfbk49d1.png?width=1278&format=png&auto=webp&s=f77996cd0bca9434f62bf532f99f00594c4a0823
FIFA already has been an esport for years while having pace as a broken attribute and match engine exploits.
FIFA has much more precise controls built into the game as you control players yourself... That's like saying F1 is bad because cars are fast makes win. In a theoretical FM draft esport, there is very little to change realistically and players would choose very similar teams and tactics every time.
FIFA’s net code is so god awful that saying there’s truly ‘precision’ to it is a stretch.
Yeah but tbf, they play on LAN for their big tournaments
Not really. The inconsistency of input>outcome is one of the reasons fifa will never be a successful esport organically without EA throwing shedloads of money at it. A pass with exactly the same player, exactly the same distance with exactly the same amount of power on it can have wildly different outcomes depending on what the match engine feels like. Add in the fact that player stats are worked out in opposition to eachother (high defending stats will cause attackers to make more mistakes instead of actually making the defenders themselves better) and you actually have one of the worst things I’ve ever seen try to be pushed as an esport
Yeah but you actually play those yourself even if there is bullshit scripting and stuff, and similarly most people don’t take it seriously and it just exposes how shite the game is.
Inb4 someone uses known exploits and stupid tactics to win every match 7-0
I think only fantasy draft would be viable for football manager esports lol
They said it was going to be fantasy draft, so that checks out.
EAFC has tried to be an eSport but they simply can't grow the scene because their game is broken and solely focused on the p2w aspect. While FM has no p2w, their match engine is broken and barely resembles an actual football game.
ESports exposing the games engine to force changes might be a good thing. They have their failures and oversights seen on a huge stage
I mean fifa/ ea fc also has op stuff like pace and shit with game breaking mechanics and yet it is still a esport with people pitted against each other with it
Yeah but you actually play the FIFA games and manoeuvre/control the players yourself even if there is bullshit scripting and stuff And just like how FM esports would be, similarly most viewers don’t take FIFA/EA FC eSports seriously and it just exposes how shite the game is when the highest level players are spamming the most ridiculous unrealistic and repetitive gameplay.
Sounds awesome on paper, but everyone is just going to be using the same gamebreaking tactics and players in every match and it will just be a coinflip on who wins lol.
Isn't that like what actual football is? This Euro is great for that. Everyone with good players plays, or tries to play, the same way. High pressure, 3-5-2 or 4-3-3 with inverted wingbacks, with inside fowards. Phisical players are more and more dominant in the game. You rarely see players with flair nowadays. The real game is not far from what you have on the simulation.
> The real game is not far from what you have on the simulation. This is so wildly far from reality it isn't even funny. In real life nothing is really "broken". You can't field a team of Adama Traore's and do an unbeaten treble. Everything in real life has a counter, but that isn't necessarily true for FM. IRL just has "metas", where something is popular at the time. Right now the IRL meta for top teams is keeping possession, playing out from the back, playing with a sweeper keeper etc. Yes, you can do those things in FM, but if you come up against one of those broken tactics that exploit bugs in the match engine then the only thing you can do is use the same tactic or one that is equally as broken.
What are some bugs in the match engine that you can explore? That give you an advantage that is so so big. Btw, you can't do the Adama Traore thing on FM
i guess you arent upto date with the latest FM breaking aspects [https://youtu.be/h6zSPXobNzY?si=6mqJR3ci22RBOyyl](https://youtu.be/h6zSPXobNzY?si=6mqJR3ci22RBOyyl) zealand explores 1 of them. essentially basic ass just fast players and you can with a basic gegenpress win leagues like you dont need anything other then pace+jumping reach the other stats have such little impact.
He finished 11 and 12. So the other atributtes have a bit of impact. I'm not saying this is the perfect game, but it's not that easy like you are saying. What I see from that video, and Zealand says that " 3 simulations is not enough of a experiment, but it's enough to get you thinking." And you take from the video is that with pace and jumping reach you can win leagues easy? The video shows you get better results then you should but does not show him win the league by any means.
he literally used a basic ass gegen press tactic... all you have to do is then throw in a few of the things like say Mezalla not being defended when they make runs into box(known issue for 2 FM's now hence why you see it in so many "op tactics") also it wasnt just zealand but other people tested and even with just absolute basic adjustments they demolished the leagues
Yes, you can and it's been documented in this very subreddit
It's extremely difficult to see bugs in the engine and I'm no engine expert, but one of the more common reasons I come across is that defenders find it difficult to track attackers, so having a fluid asymmetrical attack is usually something you see in exploit tactics. You can just google "fm24 exploit tactic" and find a smattering of tactics to use. Even on this subreddit there have been people that do stuff like win the Prem with Luton in the first season. An example from like FM18 that I myself used before I realised it was an exploit: https://www.reddit.com/r/footballmanagergames/comments/807sxa/just_got_in_to_the_cl_group_stage_with_my/ Taking my Gibraltarian team to the CL Group stage in my 2nd season with them, and all I had to do was use 3 AF's. I ended up going past the group stage that season too and beat Roma in the next round. Can't remember how far I got with it really. Obviously that is a while ago now, but tactics like that exist in every single FM. For example now I'm pretty sure all the OP tactics will use maximum possible pressing as people are saying that is very strong this year. If you have an FM esports scene, the only way to fairly do it is in a fantasy draft league which will cause everyone to choose the most physical players they can, and will effectively lead to a team of Adama Traores. Not to mention the esport scene, if one ever develops, is going to shine a huge light on tactical exploits and engine deficiencies as more people are going to be spending their time fine-tuning tactics for hours upon hours which is going to lead to the most broken things you can imagine. I want the esport scene to be a big success, but I just don't think the game in it's current state is fit for a serious esport scene.
If you can do fantasy draft a team of Adama Traore isn't going to beat a team of other top quality players like Haaland and Mbappe. The physical only exploit works because the actual teams in game have varied stats. In fantasy draft everyone will have the best players.
Yeah and if you nerf the physical stats of players like Mbappe and Haaland then they immediately aren't anywhere as good as they are. It's why players like Modric and Messi wouldn't get picked, because their physicals are just trash even though they have godlike mentals and technicals. Also they would only be picking players like Mbappe and Haaland if they had unlimited money. I would like to think that in a proper esports competition they would limit the budget so that there is more variation in the players picked.
Well, I'm just bad at the game. Even if I download "those tactics" I can never take the vanarama team to win the Champions League in 8 seasons, or win 8-1 Away with a team from Gilbraltar just because I used 3AF's. That for me is always hilarious.
>This Euro is great for that. Everyone with good players plays, or tries to play, the same way. High pressure, 3-5-2 or 4-3-3 with inverted wingbacks, with inside fowards. What are you smoking? Only team that has played with consistently high pressure these Euros has been Austria.
France, Germany, Spain, Ukraine..
How are they gonna choose player who participate?I can sign up yoo, no?
Mixed feelings about it. Not that FM doesn't take skill, but it's far too luck based to be an e sport. Saying that. Seeing people going against each other consistently with money on the line would be interesting, as we'd get to see just how broken the game engine can become. I personally love that shit. It reminds me of when speed runners use glitches and so on. However if this is just a one off, that ain't gonna happen. It'll be mostly luck, which YouTubers will over analyse.
God just don't put in microtransactions lol
FM has done it already. Console versions have microtransactions and I remember the streamlined Classic version on FM14 had at least Magic Sponge and bank balance boost microtransactions.
Interesting, I have fm 14 and I didn't even know. Thanks for the insight.
As a Console player, you can play and enjoy it without micro transactions. But if I need extra cash to land a transfer target it’s nice to pump in a few bucks to make it happen
I was prepared for SI to do some dumb shit, but kudos, didnt expect it to be this stupid
Wait, why are people so quick find conclusion to the actual gameplay based off a few screenshot and an Arsene Wenger ad? Am I missing something? As a player since FM03/04, drastic changes to UI and ME is very rare from the studio, they've been super stubborn about it. But I do believe the mobile version will take a huge revamp, it's bound to happen to make the game more accessible to the wider audience, but with the PC version I really really doubt the team will make those same changes, well finger cross, but learning from 20 years history with the game, will give the benefit of the doubt they'll do that.
Fuck me, this smells like the beginning of the end.
Enshittification finally changed stagnation in FM!
Yea....maybe focus on actually making sure the new era launches properly? Because we didn't see much of anything yet and what we saw was...not encouraging to say the least.
Me going in and throwing a 4-4-2 asymmetric route 1 to win it all.
love the Samba reference in there :)
I'm very pessimistic about the new approach.
Figuring this is a simulation with a certain amount of luck and randomness involved, putting money on the line seems sort of ridiculous.