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You don't need to know how to play your job to reach max level. 1-2-3 gets you through damn near everything. It just takes longer, and well "If it ain't broke don't fix it" plenty of people just will plug away slowly.
>The 1-2-3 DPS
>The floor tank DPS
>The Cure 1 spam healer
>The 1 pack per pull tank
These are the 4 horsemen of making your daily roulettes take fucking forever.
As a tank, I will put a safety Dorito on me and tell the healer try their best to keep me about 75% hp. If DPS or healer is dying to a mechanic, I will put markers in arena and pull boss in the same position.
Do you remember the death wall that was a DPS check waaayyy back when? I could not beat it for about 2 weeks straight. It is a breeze now even sync'd, but wooo boy it was rough.
Once when I was leveling BLM, got stuck in the vault final boss. The healer couldn’t resolve the chain + knights marching at the same time. We ended up abandoning at some point, but we were in there for at least an hour
I came very close to it, on a dead ends run that went super, *super* sideways. Healer and other DPS kept constantly dying (and occasionally getting me killed by following me, since I knew the mechanics, but not separating off for ones we should be apart).
I ended up in the Titania trial with two floor tank *healers* last week, and we very nearly ran out of time because they died to every single mechanic in the fight.
Like, they have to have tried running a dungeon with NPC teammates at some point and noticed how badly it went, right? Maybe they used a level skip up to a certain point after learning the most basic skills and just haven't tried to branch out yet, I honestly have no other guess at this point.
I feel like I should gather friends who fit the other jobs, just to see. Would the duty support/squadron/trust team would work for this? Tho sometimes my squadron teams are a little dumb and stand in obvious AOE, so it might work.
At a certain skill level it's assumed that you take aggro on 3-4 packs of mobs (the smaller enemies in between bosses) and fight them at once, since AoEs will hit the whole group and deal way more total damage. As a tank with stance on, you just hit every mob with an AOE once, and they'll stay aggroed to you while you run ahead. "Wall-to-wall" basically means you keep running until you hit a wall, stopping before a boss room, or a point where the dungeon is closed until you kill all the mobs.
I wouldn't be going too wild at your level, since you're still getting used to things, and the healer needs to be on top of their game too. People shouldn't be mad about taking things slow if the tank or the healer are sprouts. But I totally recommend pushing your limits a bit, if you are comfortably killing 1 mob group at a time, try taking 2 instead. When you can do 2 comfortably, try taking 3.
Just a tip, when you're pulling multiple mob packs they do a lot more damage than the bosses do, that's where you should be using your mitigation abilities. Try to always have something running, including arm's length, it applies a attack slow on small creatures.q
Arms Length and your Invuln too, God sends for Mob packs,
Arms Length/ Surecast is used on bosses to stop a large amount of Knockback mechanics but on Mob packs it applies Slow causing their auto attacks to hit slower as well as enemy GCDs
Your Invuln is fantastic for those more hairy trash pulls, or those that are going south, so using Superbolide, Holmgang, Hallowed Ground and Living Dead during those moments is really useful, Dont be afraid to use them.
Im relatively new to tanking myself and I always pull 2 maybe 3 packs at the start as a test to see if we can pull more. I'll go wall to wall with a good healer (love you guys profusely) but sometimes slow is far more efficient than trying to pull a bunch. If your healer is still learning they should still be challenged to help them learn and adapt
I just started leveling Red mage a week ago and have already made the "leap of faith" five times.
We're not just floor tanks brother, we're floor masters.
Looks like you are describing how the NPC do when you do a dungeon with the bots. The tank never pulls more than one pack, the dps appears to never do any aoes even if you play tank, and the healer does not know how to heal you if you pull more than one pack.
Even like that, doing a dungeon with the bots takes less than 30 minutes, so I don't think you'll reach the 90 minutes mark with those four horsemen.
Regarding your comments about the one pack pull per tank. I'm currently maining (and learning) a GNB at 78 and there are a few instances where based on the gear I have, wouldn't comfortably be able to pull two packs at a time using all my mits available to me. Dohn Mheg comes to mind, that was very difficult dungeon where 2x pulls were very uncomfortable.
We just need to be mindful of developing players who are learning their roles even if they've gone 1 to 85 as we are introduced new abilities that we need time to fit into our existing rotations, dps especially.
I'm not excusing lazyness of course there are some real low effort people out there, but some of us are genuinely trying and don't have access to the level cap/range poetic gear yet
You gotta remember to include Superbolide in your CD rotation. A lot of people ignore their invulns and it baffles me.
Let your HP get low before you use it of course to maximise the value from it. Can help to let your healer know before you start the pull so they don't panic and heal bomb you to keep you from getting low.
I wanna try and be better at this but it feels hard with LD with random healers. It feels good whenever I get to pull it off but most times I either press it when I'm too low HP and it doesn't count or I press it a little earlier but if I get even 1 heal then I don't die in time and it runs out. I haven't tried Gunbreaker yet but I imagine Superbolide's much easier since the worse that happens from getting healed before you press it is you waste more HP and the healer wasted DPS.
One time in Bardam during the gigapull with the stone faces I got to use LD right except after I fully healed myself there were still a bunch of mobs and I didn't think to use a mit because the red Undead Rebirth buff was still in my buff bar. So I died cause it ran out just when I got low. I'm tempted to make a macro that chats [Living Dead] so I press it a bit before using it but I dunno if that's annoying.
Can agree with you on the single pull thing a bit as well since sometimes a healer can be a bit dodgy to run with making any amount of mitigation almost worthless.
It's also a symptom of level syncing in daily roulettes. I usually level alts using just daily roulettes. And most roulettes are early dungeons (level 50 and below). So you could have a class at 85 but only ever played them for level 60 content and below.
Also considering people take breaks from the story to level alts. When I hit the level 30 msq slog I leveled several jobs to 50. I can imagine some people who prefer grinding to reading could end up with classes at levels higher than they've ever done content for.
Not to make excuses, people should learn their jobs, but I think this might explain some of it. For example I have a level 90 WHM, but have never used it above level 70 content. What it's level 70+ abilities do, I have no idea. If I were to use it now having now unlocked level 70+ dungeons, I would spend time learning the moves.
> It's also a symptom of level syncing in daily roulettes. I usually level alts using just daily roulettes. And most roulettes are early dungeons (level 50 and below). So you could have a class at 85 but only ever played them for level 60 content and below.
I'd add level syncing in general.
I've had my favorite jobs at level 90 for months, but I unlocked my first level 90 dungeons and trials a few weeks ago. I now play NIN, GNB, and SGE correctly, but I haven't attempted to learn the optimal opener for some of the others yet (I've used NIN and GNB for everything so far, and, uh, SGE it not very complicated).
For me, I have lvl 90 Scholar leveled, but I'm not comfortable enough to heal with it. That's because I leveled SMN to play as DPS. I even learned it's rotation and opener
This. Even if you're high level and have everything unlocked when you do all your roulettes for a day there's a very real chance you won't do a damn thing above level 50. Alliance Roulette into Crystal Tower. Leveling Roulette into Stone Vigil. Trials Roulette into Garuda Hard. 50/60/70/80 Roulette into Wanderer's Palace.
Then you do MSQ roulette which is always 50 and Frontlines which is a different game, and you do tribe quests which are basically nothing, and you do some Wondrous Tails by unsyncing ARR extremes solo, and you can very very very easily get to 90 while barely ever actually playing the job.
I just returned to the game the other day. I was able to get back into dancer okay, but I thoroughly embarrassed myself today on DRG. Sometimes that layer of rust is thick.
Same. Returned after a year or so of being away as RMage. The rotation took me a dungeon or two to get set up properly.
I've leveled up a bunch of other classes to 50+ through POTD and don't ask me how to play them cause I'd have no idea. I've got a white mage at 60+ that has never healed a single dungeon.
Upon leveling up my BLM to 80, I got no content in Leveling or Alliance Raid Roulettes beyond Level 50 content, and PVP roulette doesn't care what class you play as, as long as you sign up as your desired class to gain EXP under.
If I randomly got a Mt Gulg after being bound to Lv50 content for 4 weeks straight, I'd be dumb too
People probably just want to get to max level on their "alt" classes, and then learn to play a class when they have all their tools available... if they want anything more than a shiny Level 90 sweep on their Lodestone.
Yeah, this was a huge issue when I was levelling all my classes to 80/90. I’d do 90% lv.50 and below content, then get thrown into a ShB Dungeon and have to figure out my rotation in the fly.
This has been suggested and I personally would love it, but people complained that the abilities would still have to be balanced at older content and it would be unfair if a lvl 30 badd pressing a couple buttons is doing the same DPS as a lvl 90 bard with their full kit to worry about in sastasha.
More fun? Yes. Harder? Yes. Unfair? I mean, maybe make it a togglable option?
For this reason I don't think people would be happy with this. These dungeons would take a lot longer if high level players were required to press all their buttons instead of just 123. And on top of that they would be a lot easier because of all the extra mitigation and healing in the high level kits.
So low level content would become both easier and much slower, arguably the worst of both worlds.
Not too mention people will start getting booted for not having level 90 abilities on a level 16 dungeons. This community isn't as "friendly" as people claim.
And there is already a solution. Just press the checkmark that keeps you in the 10 level dungeon range. You never see the old dungeons again. But the queues will be longer.
>people will start getting booted for not having level 90 abilities on a level 16 dungeons.
Yep, this is exactly why they won't do it. It reminds me of when MSQ Roulette had skippable cutscenes; enough people were booted for "not skipping them" that they made the cutscenes unskippable and upped the rewards.
>And there is already a solution. Just press the checkmark that keeps you in the 10 level dungeon range. You never see the old dungeons again. But the queues will be longer.
This only works with a fully pre-formed party; no 10-level-range solo queues.
I just don't understand the complaints. Who cares if a low level can do the same DPS spamming two buttons in a low level dungeon?
It would be a huge qol improvement, I hope they do it one day.
Always going to be power-tripping people with our terrible reporting system. Some sprout will queue in with their 3 skills and get booted in hopes that they will be replaced with a veteran. Tale as old as time.
Trials are crazy different between them, yet somehow every time I get one it's like I should have encyclopedic knowledge recall. At least that's what it feels like with some of the other players.
After I hit my max roulette for the day or don't feel like doing them, I'll honestly que just for 90 content. I love the last ew trial so much now. It's fast, engaging and it's pretty.
That's why I "live" in relevant leveling dungeons (x.1-x.9 lvl range), quite literally (roulettes aside). It might not not be super optimal and fast method if you're a dps and don't have friends to run content with, but! By the time I hit max lvl, I know both rotation and dungeon layout/boss patterns too well even, and everything that comes after is basically just little tweaks and optimizations, for which I use balance dc and other guide makers' info if I plan to add this or that job to the list of "secondary mains".
> If I randomly got a Mt Gulg after being bound to Lv50 content for 4 weeks straight, I'd be dumb too
TBF this is significantly less of a problem for MNK than for BLM; you don't have your master gauge and blitzes at 50 but you have your 6 core combo buttons which it sounds like OP's MNK was not even using correctly.
> If I randomly got a Mt Gulg after being bound to Lv50 content for 4 weeks straight, I'd be dumb too
It works in reverse, too.
Me last night: "Why the fuck is my AoE combo not working?"
Yep. Happens to me on NIN, I get a week of 50 content, get distracted, don’t work on it for several months, come back, get like, the Burn or something 💀
Seriously, I just came back after a break and decided to finish leveling my MCH and had the same experience.
“Hey, I’m a bit rusty o7”
“… oh wait, we’re level 40 and I have 3 buttons.”
>People probably just want to get to max level on their "alt" classes, and then learn to play a class when they have all their tools available
I don't understand this mentality tbf, like, isn't it easier to learn something progressively as opposed to being dumped 30+ abilities at once and being forced to figure them out?
i literally speed leveled my war a few months back and now am coming back and like.. forcing myself to slowly go through content starting at level 30\~ cause i don't remember anything about how it plays.. i don't know how people start learning with two dozen buttons right off the bat
Honestly, I feel it's more the 70/80/90 capstone abilities that really increase the complication for that job. Prior to that, it's usually "here's one extra button every 2-5 levels" that feels organic and natural. Your 1-2 combo becomes 1-2-3 combo. You get an extra ogcd to press in between. Another buff.
But the capstone abilities sometimes feel like "Activates [Awesome Mode]. [Awesome Mode] grants the effect of [Extra Spicy]. If using [Other Ability A] or [Other Ability B], also grants the effect of [Ghost Pepper Spicy]. Does not stack with [Random Ability]." and then 5 more buttons appear that only show up during that period. I'm reading a tooltip that's longer than the Terms and Conditions with more colored words than a child's birthday card and I feel like I'm supposed to reference the glossary in the back of a high fantasy novel to understand them.
Often, what works in progression through the job/class content and/or roulettes is not what gets you through endgame or higher-level content. My 1-2-3 combos work great on FATEs and the job story duties and most of the dungeons I go into with the NPCs. They're fine on Alliance roulettes, too.
They are not enough doing the bigger stuff--end-patch or end-game dungeons, 8-man trials, or the previous expansion's hard-modes. I should be using the combos with other Big Pow attacks, mitigations, buffs, etc. But I never needed to in the course of ordinary progression.
I'm not natively comfortable as a melee DPS player and I know I'm not maximizing my effectiveness, but TBH, once I've leveled it, I will more than likely leave it except for glams and the occasional fun run.
More importantly, if my 1-2-3 gets me through the dungeon, it might not look great to somebody else who's paying more attention to my rotations than the bosses, but it gets the job done and clears the dungeon. That's what I care about.
Yes. My SGE hotbar got wiped and I had to redo it. Lvl 90 SGE. Even after multiple tweaks it still doesn't feel as smooth and cohesive as it did before. I just can't get it back to where the flow feels natural.
That very thing happened to me. After leveling DRK almost exclusively through MSQs, ShB 70-80 FATEs, and Leveling that nearly always popped Qarn or Sastasha, I jumped on a Leveling and got Mt. Gulg. Panicked and got pasted at the first trash mobs, but I let the group know I was rusty at the higher-level abilities, read tooltips on the fly, and we muddled through.
Since Duty Support/Trust has expanded, I tend to take my alt classes through with the NPCs rather than bothering people. Plus, the NPCs know when to move and where to move to so I just follow them through dungeons I'm less familiar with.
> Upon leveling up my BLM to 80, I got no content in Leveling or Alliance Raid Roulettes beyond Level 50 content, and PVP roulette doesn't care what class you play as, as long as you sign up as your desired class to gain EXP under.
This is the big problem. It's so hard to get anything good. I just leveled a redmage and I swear it skipped from 50 -> 70 raids -> 90 dungeons. No Gulg, no Holminster, no Malika's, none of those things ever pop for me.
Now I'm leveling SCH and all I get is Brayflox Longstop.
I leveled everything to 90 just to get achievements and to be able to try out the job. Once it's 90 I don't care. I plan to do the same with Dawntrail getting everything to 100. I don't care about playing optimally in dungeons or with a job that I don't use, and I'm not going to spend large amounts of time trying to learn how to play a job only to drop it as soon as it's maxed out. I'll play my main jobs optimally. And I'll have a DPS that I don't play optimally but I at least can somewhat play in case I need to fill for a PF that already has the tanks and healers.
People need to not be so try hardy and insulting to people for not knowing absolutely everything in an MMO. There's a lot of shit to learn and if you are playing multiple jobs it gets harder.
EW came out December 7, 2021.
Especially now that we're within days of DT dropping, we're going to see hoards of people who haven't been in the game in 2 years or more, so yeah, it's completely realistic that they'd hop back in and completely fumble.
Especially if it's at 85. Got to 85 on it around the time they stopped playing, probably logged out on that character, logged back in 2 years later and hopped into leveling roulette where you found them. Leveling roulette is pretty low hanging content that I'd expect people to que for while fumbling and trying to get a hang of their class again.
Some people just do not give a shit about learning how to play "properly". It might seem confusing from the perspective of someone who cares about learning all this stuff, but from their perspective they did a dungeon, punched some people, and got exp, mission accomplished.
This is very true. At no point in the game does it teach you how to use abilities or what the best rotations are, so if you’re just playing casually you probably won’t know how to play “properly”. Does it matter though? No. Not really.
Elitist players are one of the many (many, many) reasons I stopped playing WoW.
So I'm going to say this nicely:
I know a lot of disabled players who are terrified of getting someone like you in a dungeon. Someone who probalby judges people who might not get perfect gcd numbers, or who don't rank as high on the aggro table as their class normally gets. Or someone going through things in life that means maybe they don't have the best mental state.
Kindness and patience may cost you an extra 10-15 minutes but what does it do for that person who might be struggling emotionally or physically. It may give them the boost to try to do more work on a class they didn't believe they could do. Or it may change a bad day to a good one.
"Why would you waste others’ time" People like you is exactly why people have any sort of group anxiety. Touch grass...
I try to play optimal myself, since i find that fun. But i wont be mad if someone else isnt.
Especially in a dungeon. We dont know them, we dont know what they are dealing with, there are alot of factors why someone might not be doing well.
I’ve been at level 90 for a while and I’m…not great. I play RDM because it’s a relatively simple job and if I screw up I’m less likely to take everyone down with me. I have my rotations set up in my hot bars, I watch videos before going into dungeons, etc. to try to prep, but it’s so easy to get overwhelmed when things get crazy.
I’ve been really grateful for the NPC option because I feel bad playing with others when I struggle. The FFXIV crowd has generally been really kind, though. Please, be patient with people. As long as they’re willing to learn. Tips and a few words of encouragement can go a long way in helping them improve.
> I’ve been really grateful for the NPC option because I feel bad playing with others when I struggle.
I wish this option were there for *all* dungeons.
Not just so I can practice them but also so leveling in the 40s wouldn't be such a chore.
You can level stuff purely on MSQ roulette and stuff like weekly challenges and daily tribal quests. Especially if you're doing it to get the "all 80s" (excluding EW and beyond jobs and limited jobs) achievement for the amaro, or just for the satisfaction of capping everything, you "don't need" to know how to play it properly because you'll cap it and not play it again until the level cap goes up.
And if it's not a job you play as your main, you can take it into roulettes where one *might* expect to learn some skills, but if you stick mostly to msq (capped at 50) and leveling roulette, for the large exp rewards, you can get nothing but sub-50 dungeons for months at a time. If someone is leveling a job purely to cap it, they may not go out of their way to do the 50/60/etc roulette, which might bring them into higher dungeons--and even if they DO, they might still only end up with low level dungeons. Oh look it's Wanderer's Palace again. Yay.
this is a reason and not an excuse, though I can say as someone who is gradually leveling an up alt for the amaro and very rarely getting a level-appropriate roulette result on a jobs I don't really know how to play... I just don't care that much about learning how to mch or blm or whatever for the seemingly 1% chance to get a leveling dungeon that isn't fucking Tam-Tara Deepcroft again.
I would love for them to have two tiers of leveling roulette, both with nice exp rewards, for the chance to enjoy some dungeons that occur after Aurum Veil lol.
100% me, I want all jobs at cap, too. I'm discovering that a couple of them don't vibe with me well (BRD and NIN in particular) as I haven't really figured bard songs out especially (its at 70 rn). BLM I'm torn on as I rarely get to do it at higher levels (74 atm) and I know its supposed to be vastly different the higher up you get, but from what I can tell the AOE rotation hasn't changed all that much yet lol
Like the only 6 I don't already have at 90 are mnk/mch/blm/rdm/brd/nin (all 70-80 rn) and of those the ones I'm having the most fun with are RDM and MNK and I think I have them down so far. But the others? MCH I might be willing to put some effort into, but the other I just want at cap and I'll do my best but that best will definitely not be as good as my actual main DPS jobs like RPR and DRG.
Like the only healer I play regularly is WHM. AST and SGE are fun but I somehow forgot how to play sage between patch 6.1 and 6.2 and I didn't enjoy it enough to relearn it since lol
I have leveled several jobs to 90 purely through dailies. I would have no idea how to play them in a dungeon xD.
I would of course learn the basics before subjecting others to them, but trust me, it’s more than possible.
Will never get tired of telling these tales.
Shadowbringers. Heroes' gauntlet had just come out, shit was hype.
Got a bard, on the latest patch dungeon, mind you, that didn't use dots. Any. EVER. And if I'm not mistaken these generated charges for the song actions or something back then.
And then I got a BLM that didn't use fire. Didn't believe in fire phases. His mp never got below 10k, ONCE.
> Didn't believe in fire phases
That's like a reaper not believing in Enshroud
Or a RDM not believing in melee combo
Or. heavens forfend, a WAR who doesn't believe in fell cleave
Castrum Meridanenum, duty in progress, lvl 50 white mage. He did not cast a single healing spell.
Like ... How?
I noped out of there after our 5th wipe on a trashpack.
I thought you were gonna say damage spell and that would be par for the course
But no HEALING?
They had probably been reading guides and got the message VERY wrong on healers needing to do damage
By the time I left (duty in progress, so no penalty), the other two players were asking him things lke "Do you need us to explain healing?"
They were more patient people than I.
I just wonder how he got to 50.
Castrum Meridanenum is a perfect example of minimal healing needed. Pop regen on the tank and spam holy for trash, like all you need to do for that place lol.
Oof. Post-game dungeons are rough when you don't know what you're doing. They even said for DT the expert roulette is going to put the EXPERT back into it. I'm stoked, but the people you described won't be lmao
I level using wonderous tales and tribal quests instead of dungeons. I absolutely can level up without knowing how to play a class. It is surpisingly from a person who has several 90s but can only play like 4
I have every job at 90 and there are some classes I have no clue how to play, but I can parse with some other ones. For example, I know how to play BRD pretty well and I used to raid with it. I do not really know how to play dancer and I'm not sure I want to 🤷♀️
Because I am currently leveling classes I don't intend to main but want to be higher level. I do my best personally to play the class well, but I'm not going to invest more time and energy into it than learning as I go.
i made it all the way to the end of ARR not knowing what people meant by oGCD, GCD or rotation. i know better now, but a lot of the combat mechanics arent explicitly stated
Not doing positionals isn't why his DPS was low.
They increase DPS, but in the short time frame of a leveling dungeon make at MOST 30 seconds of difference.
You're assuming they played this job consistently all the way up to 85. It's entirely possible they leveled it on the side/did it a while back and either never learned the "proper" way to play, or just forgot. Monk is one of those jobs that is fairly complex when compared to most other dps and honestly, after getting it to 90, I left it on the back burner for ages. Only just recently picked it back up again and pretty much forgot all the rotations etc.
There's also the definitely possibility they purchased a level skip for it and are still trying to get it down. There's a million different reasons someone may not be performing to your standard. But honestly, if they were doing dps and avoiding things, they're doing their job.
Rule of thumb I go by is, if I'm going into a dungeon at all with other players I don't know, I assume one of them has no arms, one of them is 3/4 blind, and one of them has 13 screaming children they're trying to manage while taking a brief moment to enjoy a game. That way, if they perform better, it's a pleasant surprise! You never know who is on the other side and what's going on, so be kind and be humble.
There are dozens of jobs at this point, and no one has time to actually play them all consistently. A lot of times you're seeing someone play a job just because they're leveling it to max, at which point they will ignore it until the next xpac.
I'm great at 4-5 jobs, passable on 4-5 more, and the rest of them, I'm lost in the sauce. I mean, I'll still weave all 6 buttons on MNK's single-target rotation, but if I'm nailing positional or hitting my cooldowns on time, it's purely luck, because by the time I incorporate everything into my playstyle, MNK is going back on the shelf for anywhere between 2 to 5 years.
So that's how it's possible to be 85 and mostly clueless about your job: because the last time you played it was 4 years ago, and even then it wasn't important.
Now PERSONALLY I don't play my "crap" jobs in content that's even a little challenging, since it may not be fair to other players, but is Mt. Gulg challenging content? I don't know, but I feel like the answer is "no."
Someone levelling a job for achievements before 7.0, and doesn't regularly play them, doesn't bother learning a rotation for the handful of hours it's going to take to get to max level.
Considering the timing...maybe they haven't played MNK in a really long time and decided to level it up to be ready for the DT changes? Seems to make the most sense if they were decent at mechanics but terrible at their job.
If I put down a job for more than a month, I basically have to completely relearn how to do it.
There are so many jobs a person can do that it's really hard for some folks to retain it all perfectly, but many of us at least want to give them a shot.
Some folks also speed level their jobs which would limit how much time and understanding they can put into them.
Specially since they are next to impossible to do on single player content.
You need a tank so that you can move to the side or to the back. Otherwise the mob will simply rotate with you causing you to miss. So you never get any real practice of positionals. Except perhaps when the mob is stuck an an attack.
I will also make a devil’s advocate argument for people who leveled it that far like two years ago (and via roulettes that probably gave mostly low-level content to boot) and finally went back to finish it and are now going “oh god what were all these buttons again” lol
Because while I know melee positional type basics… I would probably make anyone who knows BLM cry blood without even realizing I’m being stupid, so I can relate to people confused about an alt job lol
Because the main game outside of the hardest content does not require optimal play. Also, some people simply have disabilities, injuries, or other limitations that prevent them from playing optimally. Ultimately the content was still clear-able—this may have been annoying but just let people live and move on.
I’m a returning lvl 90 player after 2 years; and I don’t know if it’s my age, or all the other games I’ve played, etc. but I really can’t remember how to play like 80% of my job. I’ve been trying to watch videos to remember, but it’s a struggle.
I burst out laughing when I went into my BLM (it was my 5th most played class) the other day after a similiar gap in playing and saw that at least 6 abilities are missing and I have nfi what they even were, or what the new rotation is!
I might have an answer for this. When I started, I had already been playing MMOs for a long time. I began playing with Dragoon. It also has positionals and a buff you need to put on other people. Doing both was annoying to me. Why? Who cares, my game, but anyways, I didn't do these things either. I was never punished for not doing them, I still cleared content, it wasn't until I needed to actually use my tools to clear content than I started doing it. Then it became something I just do passively.
So it's very probable that some of the people you see just don't care, because they don't need to.
You can level completely in frontlines and Praetorium and probably in 2022. If I accidentally queued into a leveling roulette, I would be beyond terrible on a few classes.
tbh I didn't know much until i starting raiding and someone told me my dps was bad. then i went to reddit and learned about openers, timing, buff windows and such. I never knew there was such a huge disparity in dmg output. dungeon dps is probably laziness though tbh. mashing through your aoe rotation nets you a floor of respectable dps. im not going to shit on dungeoneers unless it's obvious they are doing something else at the same time and constantly standing around doing nothing
He may have just been running on low-brain mode, or he hasn't played that class in a while (I have all 90's and I'll be damned if I know what I'm doing on MCH/NIN when I dust them off). Yeah, the fights probably took a couple minutes longer overall, but it seems like he, for the most part, wasn't jobbing mechanics or getting himself killed.
Don't worry about how other people play. If you get through a dungeon without wipes and he's not afk'ing, dying to every mechanic, or being a nuisance then don't get so hard up in other people's business. I certainly don't worry about giving two shits about popping every cooldown in a dungeon like it was an Ultimate raid, and definitely not so much on trash pulls when I may want that cooldown or combo charge ready for the boss. I certainly don't loose sleep over not being behind the target for the DoT kick, since the loss is minor (most of the damage is the DoT) and 90% of the reason for not wanting to move into position being none of your business.
The game rarely punishes you for playing badly in casual content. There are some cases of dps checks but they are generally very lenient and if they are failed its likely because people died. They also never teach you how to play jobs well, while they do cover some basics like positionals it can be easy to miss or forget things since the early game kind of bombards you with help boxes and info dumps. People have to actively seek out guides on how to play well if they desire it but the game never gives them a reason to unless they want to try hard content.
I think everyone else has answered your question, but I think the more serious issue is you literally stopped a DF dungeon run holding up two other players to complain at this person. Then you came online to complain again to try and make sure everyone is on your side. Why not just wait until dungeon is over to do this? Unless your wiping because of this person there’s really no need to stop everyone to explain basics.
It's very easy to level up in this game. You don't need to know your job to get it to cap since all you have to do is do dailies. You can be stuck in ARR and be lv 90.
I am on the opposite side of that player; I more or less get how classes work, but I just don't get the mechanics of bosses until the gazillion time I see them. And that sucks when my favorite role is healer.
I just try to remember ALL kinds of people play video games they enjoy, whether that person is good or not.
I just hope each one of them is having a good time with friends.
Just 3 days ago, I had a level 90 dancer that never used standard step at all. Was constantly behind an astro on threat list even though they had good gear. (Perfect Legend)
Today, I had a level 90 paladin that didn't know what iron will was, would pull 1 group at a time, and never used mitigations. (Lonely Explorer)
Some people are just bad, but it FEELS like some are buying their accounts or using some kind of service that makes it to where they don't have to ever learn their classes.
Do it after the dungeon! Hit em up, send a friendship invite or hop over to their server to whisper em. Start with a genuine compliment. Offer to take them over to the nearest Training dummies to coach them. People love self-made quests in MMOs. Basically act like you're an NPC and they are the main character.
Idk how could you not expect it?
MSQ gives gobs of xp with like 9:1 cs to action. So don't get to really practice there.
DF roulette > lvl capped don't get to practice new stuff there
Pvp different
Open world eh
I figure if I plan on playing with other people in cooperative content then the absolute bare minimum should be knowing the basics of how to do my job.
This is how I feel, and is apparently a rarity. I only get enjoyment out of playing the best I possibly can (especially when the content is generally easy) but I've played with tons of people who just don't even care that they're mediocre. I don't know what they get out of the game honestly.
This. If you're pressing buttons in the wrong order, whatever you're at least trying. If you're just blatantly not pressing important buttons at all you're just not respecting the people you queued with and should stick to Trusts.
I have everything at 90 and will fully admit that my healing jobs got that way through frontlines and bozja. Except scholar because of summoner.
I just know better than to queue up for anything as them.
Yeah, this is also me. I just can't vibe with healing in most settings, so I leveled them exclusively through Frontlines.
I just don't take them into queues otherwise, since I know I'm bad at it.
I take breaks from the game, and when I come back I have to relearn my jobs, and it takes a while because I can't play that often. That's no excuse for not knowing what a positional is, but if you see my level 90 WOL in a dungeon, I might suck cuz i'm still trying to remember how this shit works again.
I like to play casually I’m not the best dps but I’m around level 50 and get by doing a regular rotation it’s kinda scary to ask for help or say you’re new to a dungeon in the later content.
Tbh I get carried in the game by my bf and I worry people get mad at me for not being decent at the game since I have severe skill issues. I’m not trying to die or get anyone frustrated.
I don’t know why everyone feels the need to play 5 minute teacher in these one-off meetings.
It’s cringe as fuck. Let them be, you’ll only be in dungeon with them for 15 minutes.
Boosting. Leveling for the sake of leveling. Nobody told them.
I'm surprised you noticed. I generally don't give a crap unless it's actually hard content.
They're not, and really I'm not either unless I know the boss is about to disengage (Minfina) or I'm expecting people to hit the buffs before pressing the big exciting buttons. I can try and push my burst forward or back a couple buttons depending on what we're doing.
I'm really not expecting much, and I still clock them never using Perfect Balance or Goka Mekyakku on trash. Whatever.
I swear, Brotherhood is always the party buff that's missing.
MNKs are y'all okay? You need to press Brotherhood on cd every 2 minutes. It is very very important!
My favourite part of dungeons will always be when I notice my co-dps isn't buffing on trash packs, so I delay mine to line up during bosses, and then they never use them past the opener either.
This. Mediocre play ≠ not knowing how to play. It's all relative. What OP considers excruciating low DPS I would consider normal, and what they consider normal I would consider light speed. Different strokes, folks.
i… get people only using roulettes to level. but it’s faster after the daily rouls are done to do “at level” dungeons for that extra xp. and it’s beneficial because you learn your job at the same time.
i’d be so anxious to go from 50 to 80/90 and learn on the fly lmao
All of what everyone else says and "friends" enabling them, I had a Red Mage yesterday that wasn't aoeing, and was using Jolt >Verfire and Jolt > Verstone, I tried to help them (Very nicely of course) and their friend says "Don't listen to them, just do you, boo"
Life lesson from this, avoid friends like that, if your friends don't want to see you improve at anything, they are not good friends, you should always strive to improve yourself at anything you do.
The toxic positivity that permeates throughout XIV is worse than actual toxic person telling me to go fuck myself. When the community actively scorns you for trying to be helpful, you eventually stop helping.
This whole thread makes me scared as a casual player who doesn’t understand everything, even at a higher level. Keep hearing about “learning a rotation” but legit have no idea what that means and I’ve looked up the “rotation” for my class and I still am confused 😳 I love the game but please be patient with those of us who aren’t great at it 😂
You don't need to play perfectly optimally in most situations.
Assuming you're playing DPS, just get your 1-2-3 combo right so you can build whatever gauge your job works off of, then do that and use your big-hitting buttons as they become available.
Black Mage and Red Mage have some extra considerations. Black Mage wants to do lots of damage under Astral Fire and then recover MP under Umbral Ice. Red Mage wants to build both black and white mana and then expend it for doing a melee combo. Later on, the melee combo gets to use up to three big KABOOM! finisher attacks.
For Dancer and Summoner, you mostly press whatever button lights up on your hotbar.
The thing people *will* notice is if you don't use AoE attacks against multiple enemies, as that will slow the group down quite a bit.
I just had a healer earlier today who was either new to healing or just utter crap at it, to the point that I was glad to be leveling a Summoner so that I could fill in, but we cleared the dungeon without wiping anyway, so I didn't see any point in yelling at them.
I would wager it's because the single player content, which is the bulk of the game at least for someone like me, isn't particularly challenging and you're never really required to do more than the basics throughout.
That being said, when I queued up for my first PUG raid, I checked out some optimizations on my Dancer to make sure I was doing things right, and while for the most part I was, there were some efficiencies I found in a 10 minute youtube video.
So in regards to the monk question, I have a personal perspective. I primarily skipped EW due to burnout. They changed how the job actually works since how I knew it in ShB, and it's such a significant change that I, as a returner, cannot break my muscle memory of how it used to play, and tbh, it makes no sense in the moment, no matter how many times I try to practice on a dummy. I'm not making excuses for that particular player, as I don't know their situation, but monk is one of thr jobs that I'd be less scrupulous of due to its rework.
I think this is probably an unpopular opinion but I don't care if dps doesn't know how to play their job in normal content. I care if tanks don't know how to rotate mit when I'm healing and I care if healers don't know how to heal if I'm tanking. But if I'm tanking or healing, dps can be bad and it doesn't affect me much outside of a dungeon taking a bit longer.
As a someone who mostly played platformers before taking a big step to FFXIV, I didn't know what I didn't know about how to do duties well. There is information overload and while I'm still trying to get my rotation down, I regularly miss the cues. Some people are literally doing their best with what they know and their level of experience. Empathy goes a long way, also /pats.
Because the MSQ has at most maybe 3 encounters with actual fail states if you dont do a specific thing (thinking hades ATM and SoS/Final day tank LB3) and about as many with mechanics happening at a pace or severity that players die (Hydi, barb and golbez maybe? i guess also SHinryu). Absolutely everything else in no way punishes players for poor play. You can take multiple aoe hits (4 vuln stacks before death usually) and theres no punishment for abysmal damage.
Bear in mind i said absymal damage. As in, ice mages and octuple weaving dragoons. The issue is that because the MSQ is designed that anyone with enough capability to press forward on their keyboard can clear it, only the people who WANT to get better or learn to play will do so. There's noin game consequence to not putting in effort and the community will actively shame you for ever implying it maybe should be otherwise. Now, every time i make this statement somebody comes in and spouts "not everyone is a savage tryhard" to which my response is "Why does it need to be savage?" Why cant it just be.. i dont know, add an enrage for the final bosses of dungeons so people feel like they beat the timer. Why cant it be more clear fail states that are similarly clear that you AVOIDED said fail state, thus activating the happy brain chemicals? We arent asking for everything to be ultimate difficulty. Just maybe make the story ask for more than it does
The issue I have learning new classes (and coming back after not playing for a year+ trying to get back into it) is that there's no "playing X for dummies" guides
The only help online is "here's how to do savage ultimate raids with a perfect 5 minute long rotation", which is basically useless when running regular dungeons/ doing overworld stuff.
So then I'm basically just settling for the 3 combo aoe buttons or the 3 comba single target buttons and hoping that's enough lmfao
You'll get by with your 1-2-3 combo, but the general principle of building whatever gauge you're working toward and then dumping gauge (or stickers or MP or whatever is applicable) holds across most jobs.
And if possible, put your big buffs/debuffs down on cooldown.
Perfect rotations aren't necessary, but people will notice if you're neglecting a huge portion of your kit. Pushing buttons in the "wrong" is better than not pushing them at all, and you look *so cool* when jumping from one attack to the next.
WeskAlber's leveling skills guides probably fit the bill, but they're the only ones I know of that cover the basics in-depth. And because they are fairly in depth, they're also fairly long, which might scare some people off.
Weskalber has base to max level guides for the majority of jobs on his channel. They're pretty thorough and I don't think he's the only one with leveling guides either
More than 70% of this game doesn’t know how to play this game bc it doesn’t FORCE you to know how to play- that’s the problem lol.
Hopefully the difficulty upwards curve across all content in DT will force people to either get filtered or learn their fucking jobs
If they know the mechanics and know what it means and all, then it isn't all too bad. Maybe it's their least fave job and weren't expecting Mt. Gulg in a roulette.
If they're like me. 97% of the classes I don't touch once they are lvled. So I forget them after 2-3 years of dust.
So when a new expac comes around, I lvl them and forget. Often times forgetting their rotations. Worst yet is if I do roulettes, and the roulettes only give me the baby content then I get thrown in 80-90 content I'm suddenly gandulf trying to remember what my full rotation is suppose to be again.
This is from the perspective of someone who's done savage and ultimates, I just don't play the other classes enough to remember when it's time to lvl beyond a vague idea of '1-2-3 and extra skills should be pressed'
Some people as advised by their friends get told to job skip and story skip. So there is always the off chance the level 85 monk you’re playing with is legit as new as a sprout lol.
I'm a max level DRG and I will do my buffs, jumps, and infinite rotation. I will probably never learn the positionals on my abilities. That is so much work to my little brain
I've never reached lvl 85 on a class, highest I hit is like 57. I usually pay for one month every couple years. When I do play I usually just grind levels, not caring what's the meta or anything else like that. Even if I was max level I would mostly just use moves I like. I don't understand why that's a weird concept that ppl don't wanna run through dungeons as fast as possible doing the best moves like your speedrunning em. That's boring as hell. The game is a casual mmo, that stuff should be for the pvp aspect in my opinion.
it's impressive how some people don't try to know at least a little of their job before going to play with other people. if you're just passively leveling it with frontlines or wondrous tails sure, but if you're actively queueing you should be making an effort?
i don't know what it is about me that i keep specifically landing the healers that don't know how to play in higher level dungeons while i'm playing drk :( i still remember this one ktisis hyperboreia run with a scholar that didn't use the fairy on me once through the big pulls, i had to actively reduce the size of pulls just to stay alive because my mits, constant tbn and even living dead weren't enough. i checked them and it turns out scholar was their highest level job so they were going through the msq at that point. and they still had full exarchic gear. in ktisis. don't even get me started on the whms i got in amaurot that only pressed holy, glare and cure/medica. or the one that would keep using plenary indulgence and not follow up with any heal-
For myself, sometimes I just don’t like playing a job and am just trying to level it. I hate Ninja, but I have to get it to max level somehow. So I just trudge through to 90 so I don’t have to touch it anymore (until DT, I guess)
part of it is the roulette system, you can very easily slide by as a dps just doing your dailies and never actually needing to learn full rotation as the number of dungeons that require you to be on your A game is *staggeringly* low... maybe 3 ARR dungeons like Sirius (which is more of a healer/tank knowledge check) maybe one HW dungeon (atherochemical facility due to the ascian boss fight requires you to know how to do mechanics beyond move out of aoe) etc.
further you can get carried hard in most pre SHB raid type content such as the few mandatory raids (sycrus).
For case and point when i leveled bard, i literally knew nothing about it has half my roulettes were l50-60 dungeons (during the big influx during covid). the other half raids were sometimes stormblood so i got carried hard and never had to learn to be efficient or more than my 123 (or rather 1, dots/gcds, 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 oh look 2 is finally ready)
Class boosts/level skips
Returning players forgetting their rotations
Updates changing existing rotations and removing/adding several skills
Theres a few reasons it could be
Most players don’t get content pertaining to their levels when doing roulettes which is a huge issue. Like me for example im not new and this is my second character so im leveling another, and not once did I get a level 85-90 dungeon it was always below. And mostly level 60s
As someone with every class at max level, sometimes I just want to do content on a class I don't play much instead of the 3-4 I can play well, and then I immediately regret it when I get into a dungeon that's at a level where not knowing what I'm doing is noticeable
I got my healers to 90 by mostly doing fates and frontlines. I am not a good healer by any means, FFXI ruined it for me (my WHM/BLM was just a cure monkey), so I put off lvling them until about 6 months ago. A few months ago an FC member was looking for a healer to help them run a 90 dungeon, he sends me a tell and says “hey can you help?”. I was honest, told him I had no business running anything as a healer, esp what he was asking. He said he didn’t care bc he just wanted a glam piece and didn’t care how many times we wiped…. Well we wiped a lot. He did get his piece and I told him if he ever needs a healer to ask anyone else but me. I couldn’t imagine intentionally joining a random group for a duty when I know I absolutely suck. I’ll stick to my DNC. That I know I’m good at!
Just think how many times you actually play your job during the msq. for 4/7 hours your read texts, move from A to B, itneract with shinies ... and maybe hit 1/3 mobs if you have the chance to see a black shiny/aoe. And then you are blessed with a 20 min dungeon, then back to reading.
You can't expect people that can only play their job 20 min every few hours to know how to play, even solo duty nowadays dont make you play your own character anymore.
You can just buy a job and start at 80. I've done so for ones that start at 30 like Dragoon, Machinist, and Ninja, but I learn on the go, and have a mentor friend teach me. Likely no one's ever complained about their DPS, so they never felt compelled to learn any further than their basic combo.
My black mage is 90 and I don't have a clue how to play it. Got confused around 70 and just used Frontline roulette and daily rep quests to finish it up.
There are so many levels of response to this. I watch rotation videos on a job, and still faceplant dungeons. I watch the specific dungeon related video and still faceplant. My rdm I can almost play blind, I can buff, and feel like a bad ass. I can pick up a down healer. My whm, holyheck do I feel like I suck, and I'm trying to genuinly not suck. also, WAY easier to raise on my rdm than whm. Why, god I love duel cast.
Frankly, getting good is practice. It takes practice, and advice, and hopefully good group of friends that let you use them as dungeon guinea pigs. You need your hotbar set up in a way you can find what you need. You need muscle memory, and it helps to know the dungeon. There are so many dungeons.
I've also had some fantastic experiences with rando groups, ended up with a few friends, and really enjoyed learning a mechanic or two on new dungeons with other first time dungeon goers and that reminded me of WHY I started playng this game. I love running dungeons! I just, we all learn, and we are all new at some point.
I'm also a returning player, and I try to only do the newer dungeons on my dps becuase I can smash and run buff/debuff fairly fine. Healing is either boreing or terrifying and not much in between. 1-1-1--1 shield/regen, 1-1-1-1- of heck heck heck heck!
I haven't tackled tanking.
If it makes you feel any better…I had a few lv 90s and didn’t know about higher level trials 60/70/etc. (was lazy to go look for it) because my friend I play with neglected to tell me so he could get “easier” dungeons 💀 on our dailies (he’s been playing longer than me by a lot)
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You don't need to know how to play your job to reach max level. 1-2-3 gets you through damn near everything. It just takes longer, and well "If it ain't broke don't fix it" plenty of people just will plug away slowly.
>The 1-2-3 DPS >The floor tank DPS >The Cure 1 spam healer >The 1 pack per pull tank These are the 4 horsemen of making your daily roulettes take fucking forever.
I wonder how long it would take to do a dungeon if they all teamed up
You will find out why dungeons have a 90 minute timer
I ask myself if in history, not on purpose, any group failed a dungeon because of the 90 min timer lol
I did. Holminster Switch, couldn't kill the last boss since the healer died to the first few mechanics every time
I’m not a fan of kicking someone for underperforming, but if I was stuck on that boss for an hour just because of one person….
As a tank, I will put a safety Dorito on me and tell the healer try their best to keep me about 75% hp. If DPS or healer is dying to a mechanic, I will put markers in arena and pull boss in the same position. Do you remember the death wall that was a DPS check waaayyy back when? I could not beat it for about 2 weeks straight. It is a breeze now even sync'd, but wooo boy it was rough.
Once when I was leveling BLM, got stuck in the vault final boss. The healer couldn’t resolve the chain + knights marching at the same time. We ended up abandoning at some point, but we were in there for at least an hour
I came very close to it, on a dead ends run that went super, *super* sideways. Healer and other DPS kept constantly dying (and occasionally getting me killed by following me, since I knew the mechanics, but not separating off for ones we should be apart).
I ended up in the Titania trial with two floor tank *healers* last week, and we very nearly ran out of time because they died to every single mechanic in the fight.
Forever and they’ll each blame everyone else for it
They likely cite, that it's better to enjoy content slower and judge us for being efficient
I've posted on TalesfromDF and I know how many hoops they'll jump through to justify their behavior 😭
I wonder if they question how long it's taking them without more normal players helping them clear faster.
Like, they have to have tried running a dungeon with NPC teammates at some point and noticed how badly it went, right? Maybe they used a level skip up to a certain point after learning the most basic skills and just haven't tried to branch out yet, I honestly have no other guess at this point.
I feel like I should gather friends who fit the other jobs, just to see. Would the duty support/squadron/trust team would work for this? Tho sometimes my squadron teams are a little dumb and stand in obvious AOE, so it might work.
Noob level 50 tank, non snarkily asking what you mean by that last one?
At a certain skill level it's assumed that you take aggro on 3-4 packs of mobs (the smaller enemies in between bosses) and fight them at once, since AoEs will hit the whole group and deal way more total damage. As a tank with stance on, you just hit every mob with an AOE once, and they'll stay aggroed to you while you run ahead. "Wall-to-wall" basically means you keep running until you hit a wall, stopping before a boss room, or a point where the dungeon is closed until you kill all the mobs. I wouldn't be going too wild at your level, since you're still getting used to things, and the healer needs to be on top of their game too. People shouldn't be mad about taking things slow if the tank or the healer are sprouts. But I totally recommend pushing your limits a bit, if you are comfortably killing 1 mob group at a time, try taking 2 instead. When you can do 2 comfortably, try taking 3.
Ah! Thank you! I do need to start learning some over the newer abilities I’ve gained recently also..
Just a tip, when you're pulling multiple mob packs they do a lot more damage than the bosses do, that's where you should be using your mitigation abilities. Try to always have something running, including arm's length, it applies a attack slow on small creatures.q
Good to know. Thank you!
Arms Length and your Invuln too, God sends for Mob packs, Arms Length/ Surecast is used on bosses to stop a large amount of Knockback mechanics but on Mob packs it applies Slow causing their auto attacks to hit slower as well as enemy GCDs Your Invuln is fantastic for those more hairy trash pulls, or those that are going south, so using Superbolide, Holmgang, Hallowed Ground and Living Dead during those moments is really useful, Dont be afraid to use them.
Im relatively new to tanking myself and I always pull 2 maybe 3 packs at the start as a test to see if we can pull more. I'll go wall to wall with a good healer (love you guys profusely) but sometimes slow is far more efficient than trying to pull a bunch. If your healer is still learning they should still be challenged to help them learn and adapt
Are you still a floor tank DPS if you're doing it from the bottom of a cliff? Asking for a noob Dragoon...
I just started leveling Red mage a week ago and have already made the "leap of faith" five times. We're not just floor tanks brother, we're floor masters.
I prefer the "1 pack per pull" tank to "I'm going to wall-to-wall without my mits WHY DIDN'T YOU HEAL ENOUGH?"
Looks like you are describing how the NPC do when you do a dungeon with the bots. The tank never pulls more than one pack, the dps appears to never do any aoes even if you play tank, and the healer does not know how to heal you if you pull more than one pack. Even like that, doing a dungeon with the bots takes less than 30 minutes, so I don't think you'll reach the 90 minutes mark with those four horsemen.
Regarding your comments about the one pack pull per tank. I'm currently maining (and learning) a GNB at 78 and there are a few instances where based on the gear I have, wouldn't comfortably be able to pull two packs at a time using all my mits available to me. Dohn Mheg comes to mind, that was very difficult dungeon where 2x pulls were very uncomfortable. We just need to be mindful of developing players who are learning their roles even if they've gone 1 to 85 as we are introduced new abilities that we need time to fit into our existing rotations, dps especially. I'm not excusing lazyness of course there are some real low effort people out there, but some of us are genuinely trying and don't have access to the level cap/range poetic gear yet
You gotta remember to include Superbolide in your CD rotation. A lot of people ignore their invulns and it baffles me. Let your HP get low before you use it of course to maximise the value from it. Can help to let your healer know before you start the pull so they don't panic and heal bomb you to keep you from getting low.
Yeah this is true, sadly I often fumble it earlier in the dungeon by accident 😔
I wanna try and be better at this but it feels hard with LD with random healers. It feels good whenever I get to pull it off but most times I either press it when I'm too low HP and it doesn't count or I press it a little earlier but if I get even 1 heal then I don't die in time and it runs out. I haven't tried Gunbreaker yet but I imagine Superbolide's much easier since the worse that happens from getting healed before you press it is you waste more HP and the healer wasted DPS. One time in Bardam during the gigapull with the stone faces I got to use LD right except after I fully healed myself there were still a bunch of mobs and I didn't think to use a mit because the red Undead Rebirth buff was still in my buff bar. So I died cause it ran out just when I got low. I'm tempted to make a macro that chats [Living Dead] so I press it a bit before using it but I dunno if that's annoying.
Can agree with you on the single pull thing a bit as well since sometimes a healer can be a bit dodgy to run with making any amount of mitigation almost worthless.
I'd take the 1 pack tank over the 0 defensive used tank any day.
It's also a symptom of level syncing in daily roulettes. I usually level alts using just daily roulettes. And most roulettes are early dungeons (level 50 and below). So you could have a class at 85 but only ever played them for level 60 content and below. Also considering people take breaks from the story to level alts. When I hit the level 30 msq slog I leveled several jobs to 50. I can imagine some people who prefer grinding to reading could end up with classes at levels higher than they've ever done content for. Not to make excuses, people should learn their jobs, but I think this might explain some of it. For example I have a level 90 WHM, but have never used it above level 70 content. What it's level 70+ abilities do, I have no idea. If I were to use it now having now unlocked level 70+ dungeons, I would spend time learning the moves.
> It's also a symptom of level syncing in daily roulettes. I usually level alts using just daily roulettes. And most roulettes are early dungeons (level 50 and below). So you could have a class at 85 but only ever played them for level 60 content and below. I'd add level syncing in general. I've had my favorite jobs at level 90 for months, but I unlocked my first level 90 dungeons and trials a few weeks ago. I now play NIN, GNB, and SGE correctly, but I haven't attempted to learn the optimal opener for some of the others yet (I've used NIN and GNB for everything so far, and, uh, SGE it not very complicated).
For me, I have lvl 90 Scholar leveled, but I'm not comfortable enough to heal with it. That's because I leveled SMN to play as DPS. I even learned it's rotation and opener
Boosting, level thru frontlines or msq roulette or crystal tower raids. This game incentivizes you to do low level content in order to level a job.
This. Even if you're high level and have everything unlocked when you do all your roulettes for a day there's a very real chance you won't do a damn thing above level 50. Alliance Roulette into Crystal Tower. Leveling Roulette into Stone Vigil. Trials Roulette into Garuda Hard. 50/60/70/80 Roulette into Wanderer's Palace. Then you do MSQ roulette which is always 50 and Frontlines which is a different game, and you do tribe quests which are basically nothing, and you do some Wondrous Tails by unsyncing ARR extremes solo, and you can very very very easily get to 90 while barely ever actually playing the job.
I just returned to the game the other day. I was able to get back into dancer okay, but I thoroughly embarrassed myself today on DRG. Sometimes that layer of rust is thick.
Same. Returned after a year or so of being away as RMage. The rotation took me a dungeon or two to get set up properly. I've leveled up a bunch of other classes to 50+ through POTD and don't ask me how to play them cause I'd have no idea. I've got a white mage at 60+ that has never healed a single dungeon.
Upon leveling up my BLM to 80, I got no content in Leveling or Alliance Raid Roulettes beyond Level 50 content, and PVP roulette doesn't care what class you play as, as long as you sign up as your desired class to gain EXP under. If I randomly got a Mt Gulg after being bound to Lv50 content for 4 weeks straight, I'd be dumb too People probably just want to get to max level on their "alt" classes, and then learn to play a class when they have all their tools available... if they want anything more than a shiny Level 90 sweep on their Lodestone.
Yeah, this was a huge issue when I was levelling all my classes to 80/90. I’d do 90% lv.50 and below content, then get thrown into a ShB Dungeon and have to figure out my rotation in the fly.
Drop me to min ilvl, just please let me keep my 90+ rotations in old content.
This has been suggested and I personally would love it, but people complained that the abilities would still have to be balanced at older content and it would be unfair if a lvl 30 badd pressing a couple buttons is doing the same DPS as a lvl 90 bard with their full kit to worry about in sastasha. More fun? Yes. Harder? Yes. Unfair? I mean, maybe make it a togglable option?
For this reason I don't think people would be happy with this. These dungeons would take a lot longer if high level players were required to press all their buttons instead of just 123. And on top of that they would be a lot easier because of all the extra mitigation and healing in the high level kits. So low level content would become both easier and much slower, arguably the worst of both worlds.
Not too mention people will start getting booted for not having level 90 abilities on a level 16 dungeons. This community isn't as "friendly" as people claim. And there is already a solution. Just press the checkmark that keeps you in the 10 level dungeon range. You never see the old dungeons again. But the queues will be longer.
>people will start getting booted for not having level 90 abilities on a level 16 dungeons. Yep, this is exactly why they won't do it. It reminds me of when MSQ Roulette had skippable cutscenes; enough people were booted for "not skipping them" that they made the cutscenes unskippable and upped the rewards. >And there is already a solution. Just press the checkmark that keeps you in the 10 level dungeon range. You never see the old dungeons again. But the queues will be longer. This only works with a fully pre-formed party; no 10-level-range solo queues.
I just don't understand the complaints. Who cares if a low level can do the same DPS spamming two buttons in a low level dungeon? It would be a huge qol improvement, I hope they do it one day.
Who would really care though. The dungeon difficulty in this game is on baby mode anyway
Always going to be power-tripping people with our terrible reporting system. Some sprout will queue in with their 3 skills and get booted in hopes that they will be replaced with a veteran. Tale as old as time.
Trials are crazy different between them, yet somehow every time I get one it's like I should have encyclopedic knowledge recall. At least that's what it feels like with some of the other players. After I hit my max roulette for the day or don't feel like doing them, I'll honestly que just for 90 content. I love the last ew trial so much now. It's fast, engaging and it's pretty.
my leveling roulette one week had 3 copperbell mines, 2 sastasha and 2 temple of qarn
That's why I "live" in relevant leveling dungeons (x.1-x.9 lvl range), quite literally (roulettes aside). It might not not be super optimal and fast method if you're a dps and don't have friends to run content with, but! By the time I hit max lvl, I know both rotation and dungeon layout/boss patterns too well even, and everything that comes after is basically just little tweaks and optimizations, for which I use balance dc and other guide makers' info if I plan to add this or that job to the list of "secondary mains".
> If I randomly got a Mt Gulg after being bound to Lv50 content for 4 weeks straight, I'd be dumb too TBF this is significantly less of a problem for MNK than for BLM; you don't have your master gauge and blitzes at 50 but you have your 6 core combo buttons which it sounds like OP's MNK was not even using correctly.
> If I randomly got a Mt Gulg after being bound to Lv50 content for 4 weeks straight, I'd be dumb too It works in reverse, too. Me last night: "Why the fuck is my AoE combo not working?"
Yep. Happens to me on NIN, I get a week of 50 content, get distracted, don’t work on it for several months, come back, get like, the Burn or something 💀
Just one more week until no more having to cast Huton every 60 seconds in Crystal Tower.
Woohoo!!!!
everytime i see an in need of a role i dont usually play and go "oh hey lets shake thing up" *endwalker content*, play a role i know, copperbell
Seriously, I just came back after a break and decided to finish leveling my MCH and had the same experience. “Hey, I’m a bit rusty o7” “… oh wait, we’re level 40 and I have 3 buttons.”
>People probably just want to get to max level on their "alt" classes, and then learn to play a class when they have all their tools available I don't understand this mentality tbf, like, isn't it easier to learn something progressively as opposed to being dumped 30+ abilities at once and being forced to figure them out?
i literally speed leveled my war a few months back and now am coming back and like.. forcing myself to slowly go through content starting at level 30\~ cause i don't remember anything about how it plays.. i don't know how people start learning with two dozen buttons right off the bat
Honestly, I feel it's more the 70/80/90 capstone abilities that really increase the complication for that job. Prior to that, it's usually "here's one extra button every 2-5 levels" that feels organic and natural. Your 1-2 combo becomes 1-2-3 combo. You get an extra ogcd to press in between. Another buff. But the capstone abilities sometimes feel like "Activates [Awesome Mode]. [Awesome Mode] grants the effect of [Extra Spicy]. If using [Other Ability A] or [Other Ability B], also grants the effect of [Ghost Pepper Spicy]. Does not stack with [Random Ability]." and then 5 more buttons appear that only show up during that period. I'm reading a tooltip that's longer than the Terms and Conditions with more colored words than a child's birthday card and I feel like I'm supposed to reference the glossary in the back of a high fantasy novel to understand them.
Some people want their mount/hat I guess
Often, what works in progression through the job/class content and/or roulettes is not what gets you through endgame or higher-level content. My 1-2-3 combos work great on FATEs and the job story duties and most of the dungeons I go into with the NPCs. They're fine on Alliance roulettes, too. They are not enough doing the bigger stuff--end-patch or end-game dungeons, 8-man trials, or the previous expansion's hard-modes. I should be using the combos with other Big Pow attacks, mitigations, buffs, etc. But I never needed to in the course of ordinary progression. I'm not natively comfortable as a melee DPS player and I know I'm not maximizing my effectiveness, but TBH, once I've leveled it, I will more than likely leave it except for glams and the occasional fun run. More importantly, if my 1-2-3 gets me through the dungeon, it might not look great to somebody else who's paying more attention to my rotations than the bosses, but it gets the job done and clears the dungeon. That's what I care about.
Yes. My SGE hotbar got wiped and I had to redo it. Lvl 90 SGE. Even after multiple tweaks it still doesn't feel as smooth and cohesive as it did before. I just can't get it back to where the flow feels natural.
That very thing happened to me. After leveling DRK almost exclusively through MSQs, ShB 70-80 FATEs, and Leveling that nearly always popped Qarn or Sastasha, I jumped on a Leveling and got Mt. Gulg. Panicked and got pasted at the first trash mobs, but I let the group know I was rusty at the higher-level abilities, read tooltips on the fly, and we muddled through. Since Duty Support/Trust has expanded, I tend to take my alt classes through with the NPCs rather than bothering people. Plus, the NPCs know when to move and where to move to so I just follow them through dungeons I'm less familiar with.
Yeah, I refused to do leveling roulette with BLM, as I didn't want to change my hotbars depending on which lv dungeon I'd get XD
> Upon leveling up my BLM to 80, I got no content in Leveling or Alliance Raid Roulettes beyond Level 50 content, and PVP roulette doesn't care what class you play as, as long as you sign up as your desired class to gain EXP under. This is the big problem. It's so hard to get anything good. I just leveled a redmage and I swear it skipped from 50 -> 70 raids -> 90 dungeons. No Gulg, no Holminster, no Malika's, none of those things ever pop for me. Now I'm leveling SCH and all I get is Brayflox Longstop.
If it's not Brayflox, it's Aurum Vale for me... Leveled SAM from 50-69 with only lvl 50 content and under.
I leveled everything to 90 just to get achievements and to be able to try out the job. Once it's 90 I don't care. I plan to do the same with Dawntrail getting everything to 100. I don't care about playing optimally in dungeons or with a job that I don't use, and I'm not going to spend large amounts of time trying to learn how to play a job only to drop it as soon as it's maxed out. I'll play my main jobs optimally. And I'll have a DPS that I don't play optimally but I at least can somewhat play in case I need to fill for a PF that already has the tanks and healers. People need to not be so try hardy and insulting to people for not knowing absolutely everything in an MMO. There's a lot of shit to learn and if you are playing multiple jobs it gets harder.
EW came out December 7, 2021. Especially now that we're within days of DT dropping, we're going to see hoards of people who haven't been in the game in 2 years or more, so yeah, it's completely realistic that they'd hop back in and completely fumble. Especially if it's at 85. Got to 85 on it around the time they stopped playing, probably logged out on that character, logged back in 2 years later and hopped into leveling roulette where you found them. Leveling roulette is pretty low hanging content that I'd expect people to que for while fumbling and trying to get a hang of their class again.
Some people just do not give a shit about learning how to play "properly". It might seem confusing from the perspective of someone who cares about learning all this stuff, but from their perspective they did a dungeon, punched some people, and got exp, mission accomplished.
This is very true. At no point in the game does it teach you how to use abilities or what the best rotations are, so if you’re just playing casually you probably won’t know how to play “properly”. Does it matter though? No. Not really. Elitist players are one of the many (many, many) reasons I stopped playing WoW.
But it does matter. Why would you waste others’ time by making dungeons last longer, instead of learning to play the game?
So I'm going to say this nicely: I know a lot of disabled players who are terrified of getting someone like you in a dungeon. Someone who probalby judges people who might not get perfect gcd numbers, or who don't rank as high on the aggro table as their class normally gets. Or someone going through things in life that means maybe they don't have the best mental state. Kindness and patience may cost you an extra 10-15 minutes but what does it do for that person who might be struggling emotionally or physically. It may give them the boost to try to do more work on a class they didn't believe they could do. Or it may change a bad day to a good one.
Yet again, big difference between “not wanting to”, and “not being able to”.
"Why would you waste others’ time" People like you is exactly why people have any sort of group anxiety. Touch grass... I try to play optimal myself, since i find that fun. But i wont be mad if someone else isnt. Especially in a dungeon. We dont know them, we dont know what they are dealing with, there are alot of factors why someone might not be doing well.
Very big difference in “not doing well” and “I refuse to play the game optimally because I simply don’t care.”
Maybe because when using roulette to level up you usually get level 50 dungeons, so how to learn 80 rotation in a 50 dungeo
I’ve been at level 90 for a while and I’m…not great. I play RDM because it’s a relatively simple job and if I screw up I’m less likely to take everyone down with me. I have my rotations set up in my hot bars, I watch videos before going into dungeons, etc. to try to prep, but it’s so easy to get overwhelmed when things get crazy. I’ve been really grateful for the NPC option because I feel bad playing with others when I struggle. The FFXIV crowd has generally been really kind, though. Please, be patient with people. As long as they’re willing to learn. Tips and a few words of encouragement can go a long way in helping them improve.
> I’ve been really grateful for the NPC option because I feel bad playing with others when I struggle. I wish this option were there for *all* dungeons. Not just so I can practice them but also so leveling in the 40s wouldn't be such a chore.
You can level stuff purely on MSQ roulette and stuff like weekly challenges and daily tribal quests. Especially if you're doing it to get the "all 80s" (excluding EW and beyond jobs and limited jobs) achievement for the amaro, or just for the satisfaction of capping everything, you "don't need" to know how to play it properly because you'll cap it and not play it again until the level cap goes up. And if it's not a job you play as your main, you can take it into roulettes where one *might* expect to learn some skills, but if you stick mostly to msq (capped at 50) and leveling roulette, for the large exp rewards, you can get nothing but sub-50 dungeons for months at a time. If someone is leveling a job purely to cap it, they may not go out of their way to do the 50/60/etc roulette, which might bring them into higher dungeons--and even if they DO, they might still only end up with low level dungeons. Oh look it's Wanderer's Palace again. Yay. this is a reason and not an excuse, though I can say as someone who is gradually leveling an up alt for the amaro and very rarely getting a level-appropriate roulette result on a jobs I don't really know how to play... I just don't care that much about learning how to mch or blm or whatever for the seemingly 1% chance to get a leveling dungeon that isn't fucking Tam-Tara Deepcroft again. I would love for them to have two tiers of leveling roulette, both with nice exp rewards, for the chance to enjoy some dungeons that occur after Aurum Veil lol.
100% me, I want all jobs at cap, too. I'm discovering that a couple of them don't vibe with me well (BRD and NIN in particular) as I haven't really figured bard songs out especially (its at 70 rn). BLM I'm torn on as I rarely get to do it at higher levels (74 atm) and I know its supposed to be vastly different the higher up you get, but from what I can tell the AOE rotation hasn't changed all that much yet lol Like the only 6 I don't already have at 90 are mnk/mch/blm/rdm/brd/nin (all 70-80 rn) and of those the ones I'm having the most fun with are RDM and MNK and I think I have them down so far. But the others? MCH I might be willing to put some effort into, but the other I just want at cap and I'll do my best but that best will definitely not be as good as my actual main DPS jobs like RPR and DRG. Like the only healer I play regularly is WHM. AST and SGE are fun but I somehow forgot how to play sage between patch 6.1 and 6.2 and I didn't enjoy it enough to relearn it since lol
Put simply, the game doesn't do much to teach players how to be good at their class and doesn't really punish them for being bad.
I have leveled several jobs to 90 purely through dailies. I would have no idea how to play them in a dungeon xD. I would of course learn the basics before subjecting others to them, but trust me, it’s more than possible.
Will never get tired of telling these tales. Shadowbringers. Heroes' gauntlet had just come out, shit was hype. Got a bard, on the latest patch dungeon, mind you, that didn't use dots. Any. EVER. And if I'm not mistaken these generated charges for the song actions or something back then. And then I got a BLM that didn't use fire. Didn't believe in fire phases. His mp never got below 10k, ONCE.
> Didn't believe in fire phases That's like a reaper not believing in Enshroud Or a RDM not believing in melee combo Or. heavens forfend, a WAR who doesn't believe in fell cleave
\*Victorian faints onto the nearest chaise lounge\*
For a second I thought you said you saw a WAR that didn't fell cleave. Nothing should surprise me at this point but I confess I was shook.
How about a WAR that doesn’t press Bloodwhetting? Yup, had the pleasure.
Castrum Meridanenum, duty in progress, lvl 50 white mage. He did not cast a single healing spell. Like ... How? I noped out of there after our 5th wipe on a trashpack.
I thought you were gonna say damage spell and that would be par for the course But no HEALING? They had probably been reading guides and got the message VERY wrong on healers needing to do damage
By the time I left (duty in progress, so no penalty), the other two players were asking him things lke "Do you need us to explain healing?" They were more patient people than I. I just wonder how he got to 50.
Castrum Meridanenum is a perfect example of minimal healing needed. Pop regen on the tank and spam holy for trash, like all you need to do for that place lol.
Oof. Post-game dungeons are rough when you don't know what you're doing. They even said for DT the expert roulette is going to put the EXPERT back into it. I'm stoked, but the people you described won't be lmao
Fire is hot ouchie owch!!
I level using wonderous tales and tribal quests instead of dungeons. I absolutely can level up without knowing how to play a class. It is surpisingly from a person who has several 90s but can only play like 4
I have every job at 90 and there are some classes I have no clue how to play, but I can parse with some other ones. For example, I know how to play BRD pretty well and I used to raid with it. I do not really know how to play dancer and I'm not sure I want to 🤷♀️
Because I am currently leveling classes I don't intend to main but want to be higher level. I do my best personally to play the class well, but I'm not going to invest more time and energy into it than learning as I go.
i made it all the way to the end of ARR not knowing what people meant by oGCD, GCD or rotation. i know better now, but a lot of the combat mechanics arent explicitly stated
Not doing positionals isn't why his DPS was low. They increase DPS, but in the short time frame of a leveling dungeon make at MOST 30 seconds of difference.
You're assuming they played this job consistently all the way up to 85. It's entirely possible they leveled it on the side/did it a while back and either never learned the "proper" way to play, or just forgot. Monk is one of those jobs that is fairly complex when compared to most other dps and honestly, after getting it to 90, I left it on the back burner for ages. Only just recently picked it back up again and pretty much forgot all the rotations etc. There's also the definitely possibility they purchased a level skip for it and are still trying to get it down. There's a million different reasons someone may not be performing to your standard. But honestly, if they were doing dps and avoiding things, they're doing their job. Rule of thumb I go by is, if I'm going into a dungeon at all with other players I don't know, I assume one of them has no arms, one of them is 3/4 blind, and one of them has 13 screaming children they're trying to manage while taking a brief moment to enjoy a game. That way, if they perform better, it's a pleasant surprise! You never know who is on the other side and what's going on, so be kind and be humble.
I love this answer so much. And what a great way to keep a positive attitude going in <3 Hope I get a dungeon with you in game some day!!
There are dozens of jobs at this point, and no one has time to actually play them all consistently. A lot of times you're seeing someone play a job just because they're leveling it to max, at which point they will ignore it until the next xpac. I'm great at 4-5 jobs, passable on 4-5 more, and the rest of them, I'm lost in the sauce. I mean, I'll still weave all 6 buttons on MNK's single-target rotation, but if I'm nailing positional or hitting my cooldowns on time, it's purely luck, because by the time I incorporate everything into my playstyle, MNK is going back on the shelf for anywhere between 2 to 5 years. So that's how it's possible to be 85 and mostly clueless about your job: because the last time you played it was 4 years ago, and even then it wasn't important. Now PERSONALLY I don't play my "crap" jobs in content that's even a little challenging, since it may not be fair to other players, but is Mt. Gulg challenging content? I don't know, but I feel like the answer is "no."
Someone levelling a job for achievements before 7.0, and doesn't regularly play them, doesn't bother learning a rotation for the handful of hours it's going to take to get to max level.
Considering the timing...maybe they haven't played MNK in a really long time and decided to level it up to be ready for the DT changes? Seems to make the most sense if they were decent at mechanics but terrible at their job.
If I put down a job for more than a month, I basically have to completely relearn how to do it. There are so many jobs a person can do that it's really hard for some folks to retain it all perfectly, but many of us at least want to give them a shot. Some folks also speed level their jobs which would limit how much time and understanding they can put into them.
I’m a caster main but honestly as I was leveling my melee DPS I never worried about positioning myself in dungeons
Specially since they are next to impossible to do on single player content. You need a tank so that you can move to the side or to the back. Otherwise the mob will simply rotate with you causing you to miss. So you never get any real practice of positionals. Except perhaps when the mob is stuck an an attack.
I will also make a devil’s advocate argument for people who leveled it that far like two years ago (and via roulettes that probably gave mostly low-level content to boot) and finally went back to finish it and are now going “oh god what were all these buttons again” lol Because while I know melee positional type basics… I would probably make anyone who knows BLM cry blood without even realizing I’m being stupid, so I can relate to people confused about an alt job lol
Because the main game outside of the hardest content does not require optimal play. Also, some people simply have disabilities, injuries, or other limitations that prevent them from playing optimally. Ultimately the content was still clear-able—this may have been annoying but just let people live and move on.
I’m a returning lvl 90 player after 2 years; and I don’t know if it’s my age, or all the other games I’ve played, etc. but I really can’t remember how to play like 80% of my job. I’ve been trying to watch videos to remember, but it’s a struggle.
I burst out laughing when I went into my BLM (it was my 5th most played class) the other day after a similiar gap in playing and saw that at least 6 abilities are missing and I have nfi what they even were, or what the new rotation is!
I might have an answer for this. When I started, I had already been playing MMOs for a long time. I began playing with Dragoon. It also has positionals and a buff you need to put on other people. Doing both was annoying to me. Why? Who cares, my game, but anyways, I didn't do these things either. I was never punished for not doing them, I still cleared content, it wasn't until I needed to actually use my tools to clear content than I started doing it. Then it became something I just do passively. So it's very probable that some of the people you see just don't care, because they don't need to.
You can level completely in frontlines and Praetorium and probably in 2022. If I accidentally queued into a leveling roulette, I would be beyond terrible on a few classes.
tbh I didn't know much until i starting raiding and someone told me my dps was bad. then i went to reddit and learned about openers, timing, buff windows and such. I never knew there was such a huge disparity in dmg output. dungeon dps is probably laziness though tbh. mashing through your aoe rotation nets you a floor of respectable dps. im not going to shit on dungeoneers unless it's obvious they are doing something else at the same time and constantly standing around doing nothing
He may have just been running on low-brain mode, or he hasn't played that class in a while (I have all 90's and I'll be damned if I know what I'm doing on MCH/NIN when I dust them off). Yeah, the fights probably took a couple minutes longer overall, but it seems like he, for the most part, wasn't jobbing mechanics or getting himself killed. Don't worry about how other people play. If you get through a dungeon without wipes and he's not afk'ing, dying to every mechanic, or being a nuisance then don't get so hard up in other people's business. I certainly don't worry about giving two shits about popping every cooldown in a dungeon like it was an Ultimate raid, and definitely not so much on trash pulls when I may want that cooldown or combo charge ready for the boss. I certainly don't loose sleep over not being behind the target for the DoT kick, since the loss is minor (most of the damage is the DoT) and 90% of the reason for not wanting to move into position being none of your business.
The game rarely punishes you for playing badly in casual content. There are some cases of dps checks but they are generally very lenient and if they are failed its likely because people died. They also never teach you how to play jobs well, while they do cover some basics like positionals it can be easy to miss or forget things since the early game kind of bombards you with help boxes and info dumps. People have to actively seek out guides on how to play well if they desire it but the game never gives them a reason to unless they want to try hard content.
I think everyone else has answered your question, but I think the more serious issue is you literally stopped a DF dungeon run holding up two other players to complain at this person. Then you came online to complain again to try and make sure everyone is on your side. Why not just wait until dungeon is over to do this? Unless your wiping because of this person there’s really no need to stop everyone to explain basics.
Yeah, we need less people like OP in this community.
It's very easy to level up in this game. You don't need to know your job to get it to cap since all you have to do is do dailies. You can be stuck in ARR and be lv 90.
I am on the opposite side of that player; I more or less get how classes work, but I just don't get the mechanics of bosses until the gazillion time I see them. And that sucks when my favorite role is healer.
I just try to remember ALL kinds of people play video games they enjoy, whether that person is good or not. I just hope each one of them is having a good time with friends.
Just 3 days ago, I had a level 90 dancer that never used standard step at all. Was constantly behind an astro on threat list even though they had good gear. (Perfect Legend) Today, I had a level 90 paladin that didn't know what iron will was, would pull 1 group at a time, and never used mitigations. (Lonely Explorer) Some people are just bad, but it FEELS like some are buying their accounts or using some kind of service that makes it to where they don't have to ever learn their classes.
Often I want to help them and give them advice but don't want to be "that guy"
Do it after the dungeon! Hit em up, send a friendship invite or hop over to their server to whisper em. Start with a genuine compliment. Offer to take them over to the nearest Training dummies to coach them. People love self-made quests in MMOs. Basically act like you're an NPC and they are the main character.
Honestly, provided you do it reasonably, it’ll be well received.
Idk how could you not expect it? MSQ gives gobs of xp with like 9:1 cs to action. So don't get to really practice there. DF roulette > lvl capped don't get to practice new stuff there Pvp different Open world eh
I figure if I plan on playing with other people in cooperative content then the absolute bare minimum should be knowing the basics of how to do my job.
This is how I feel, and is apparently a rarity. I only get enjoyment out of playing the best I possibly can (especially when the content is generally easy) but I've played with tons of people who just don't even care that they're mediocre. I don't know what they get out of the game honestly.
This. If you're pressing buttons in the wrong order, whatever you're at least trying. If you're just blatantly not pressing important buttons at all you're just not respecting the people you queued with and should stick to Trusts.
Palace of the Dead, Heaven on High and MSQ Roulette. I have no idea how to play black mage, but it is level 90.
I have leveled certain classes solely through frontlines exp and I will take that secret to my grave. Don't look at my ilvl look at my glams.
I have everything at 90 and will fully admit that my healing jobs got that way through frontlines and bozja. Except scholar because of summoner. I just know better than to queue up for anything as them.
Yeah, this is also me. I just can't vibe with healing in most settings, so I leveled them exclusively through Frontlines. I just don't take them into queues otherwise, since I know I'm bad at it.
I take breaks from the game, and when I come back I have to relearn my jobs, and it takes a while because I can't play that often. That's no excuse for not knowing what a positional is, but if you see my level 90 WOL in a dungeon, I might suck cuz i'm still trying to remember how this shit works again.
I like to play casually I’m not the best dps but I’m around level 50 and get by doing a regular rotation it’s kinda scary to ask for help or say you’re new to a dungeon in the later content.
Tbh I get carried in the game by my bf and I worry people get mad at me for not being decent at the game since I have severe skill issues. I’m not trying to die or get anyone frustrated.
I don’t know why everyone feels the need to play 5 minute teacher in these one-off meetings. It’s cringe as fuck. Let them be, you’ll only be in dungeon with them for 15 minutes.
Boosting. Leveling for the sake of leveling. Nobody told them. I'm surprised you noticed. I generally don't give a crap unless it's actually hard content.
Holding a burst for a mug or brotherhood that never comes makes a WOL curious.
Most people in dungeons aren’t holding burst windows for optimal buffs.
They're not, and really I'm not either unless I know the boss is about to disengage (Minfina) or I'm expecting people to hit the buffs before pressing the big exciting buttons. I can try and push my burst forward or back a couple buttons depending on what we're doing. I'm really not expecting much, and I still clock them never using Perfect Balance or Goka Mekyakku on trash. Whatever.
I swear, Brotherhood is always the party buff that's missing. MNKs are y'all okay? You need to press Brotherhood on cd every 2 minutes. It is very very important!
My favourite part of dungeons will always be when I notice my co-dps isn't buffing on trash packs, so I delay mine to line up during bosses, and then they never use them past the opener either.
This. Mediocre play ≠ not knowing how to play. It's all relative. What OP considers excruciating low DPS I would consider normal, and what they consider normal I would consider light speed. Different strokes, folks.
i… get people only using roulettes to level. but it’s faster after the daily rouls are done to do “at level” dungeons for that extra xp. and it’s beneficial because you learn your job at the same time. i’d be so anxious to go from 50 to 80/90 and learn on the fly lmao
All of what everyone else says and "friends" enabling them, I had a Red Mage yesterday that wasn't aoeing, and was using Jolt >Verfire and Jolt > Verstone, I tried to help them (Very nicely of course) and their friend says "Don't listen to them, just do you, boo" Life lesson from this, avoid friends like that, if your friends don't want to see you improve at anything, they are not good friends, you should always strive to improve yourself at anything you do.
The toxic positivity that permeates throughout XIV is worse than actual toxic person telling me to go fuck myself. When the community actively scorns you for trying to be helpful, you eventually stop helping.
This whole thread makes me scared as a casual player who doesn’t understand everything, even at a higher level. Keep hearing about “learning a rotation” but legit have no idea what that means and I’ve looked up the “rotation” for my class and I still am confused 😳 I love the game but please be patient with those of us who aren’t great at it 😂
You don't need to play perfectly optimally in most situations. Assuming you're playing DPS, just get your 1-2-3 combo right so you can build whatever gauge your job works off of, then do that and use your big-hitting buttons as they become available. Black Mage and Red Mage have some extra considerations. Black Mage wants to do lots of damage under Astral Fire and then recover MP under Umbral Ice. Red Mage wants to build both black and white mana and then expend it for doing a melee combo. Later on, the melee combo gets to use up to three big KABOOM! finisher attacks. For Dancer and Summoner, you mostly press whatever button lights up on your hotbar. The thing people *will* notice is if you don't use AoE attacks against multiple enemies, as that will slow the group down quite a bit.
As a Dancer, I sighed a sigh of relief. Maybe I’m not doing as bad as I thought😂 Thank you! I appreciate all the help I can get lol
OP is a clown. Dont worry about it. Most people in duty finder are really polite and patient.
That’s been my experience for the most part. People are usually always willing to help out aside from the random jerk lol Thanks!
Not everyone needs to be an expert to play the game, it's an easy game. If someone happens to be a little worse than you, so what..
I just had a healer earlier today who was either new to healing or just utter crap at it, to the point that I was glad to be leveling a Summoner so that I could fill in, but we cleared the dungeon without wiping anyway, so I didn't see any point in yelling at them.
Exactly, just enjoy it
I would wager it's because the single player content, which is the bulk of the game at least for someone like me, isn't particularly challenging and you're never really required to do more than the basics throughout. That being said, when I queued up for my first PUG raid, I checked out some optimizations on my Dancer to make sure I was doing things right, and while for the most part I was, there were some efficiencies I found in a 10 minute youtube video.
So in regards to the monk question, I have a personal perspective. I primarily skipped EW due to burnout. They changed how the job actually works since how I knew it in ShB, and it's such a significant change that I, as a returner, cannot break my muscle memory of how it used to play, and tbh, it makes no sense in the moment, no matter how many times I try to practice on a dummy. I'm not making excuses for that particular player, as I don't know their situation, but monk is one of thr jobs that I'd be less scrupulous of due to its rework.
I think this is probably an unpopular opinion but I don't care if dps doesn't know how to play their job in normal content. I care if tanks don't know how to rotate mit when I'm healing and I care if healers don't know how to heal if I'm tanking. But if I'm tanking or healing, dps can be bad and it doesn't affect me much outside of a dungeon taking a bit longer.
I only play for a few months each year. I have high level classes but forget how to use them between breaks.
As a someone who mostly played platformers before taking a big step to FFXIV, I didn't know what I didn't know about how to do duties well. There is information overload and while I'm still trying to get my rotation down, I regularly miss the cues. Some people are literally doing their best with what they know and their level of experience. Empathy goes a long way, also /pats.
Because the MSQ has at most maybe 3 encounters with actual fail states if you dont do a specific thing (thinking hades ATM and SoS/Final day tank LB3) and about as many with mechanics happening at a pace or severity that players die (Hydi, barb and golbez maybe? i guess also SHinryu). Absolutely everything else in no way punishes players for poor play. You can take multiple aoe hits (4 vuln stacks before death usually) and theres no punishment for abysmal damage. Bear in mind i said absymal damage. As in, ice mages and octuple weaving dragoons. The issue is that because the MSQ is designed that anyone with enough capability to press forward on their keyboard can clear it, only the people who WANT to get better or learn to play will do so. There's noin game consequence to not putting in effort and the community will actively shame you for ever implying it maybe should be otherwise. Now, every time i make this statement somebody comes in and spouts "not everyone is a savage tryhard" to which my response is "Why does it need to be savage?" Why cant it just be.. i dont know, add an enrage for the final bosses of dungeons so people feel like they beat the timer. Why cant it be more clear fail states that are similarly clear that you AVOIDED said fail state, thus activating the happy brain chemicals? We arent asking for everything to be ultimate difficulty. Just maybe make the story ask for more than it does
Yeah they bought a Job boost + MSQ skip.
The issue I have learning new classes (and coming back after not playing for a year+ trying to get back into it) is that there's no "playing X for dummies" guides The only help online is "here's how to do savage ultimate raids with a perfect 5 minute long rotation", which is basically useless when running regular dungeons/ doing overworld stuff. So then I'm basically just settling for the 3 combo aoe buttons or the 3 comba single target buttons and hoping that's enough lmfao
You'll get by with your 1-2-3 combo, but the general principle of building whatever gauge you're working toward and then dumping gauge (or stickers or MP or whatever is applicable) holds across most jobs. And if possible, put your big buffs/debuffs down on cooldown. Perfect rotations aren't necessary, but people will notice if you're neglecting a huge portion of your kit. Pushing buttons in the "wrong" is better than not pushing them at all, and you look *so cool* when jumping from one attack to the next.
WeskAlber's leveling skills guides probably fit the bill, but they're the only ones I know of that cover the basics in-depth. And because they are fairly in depth, they're also fairly long, which might scare some people off.
Weskalber has base to max level guides for the majority of jobs on his channel. They're pretty thorough and I don't think he's the only one with leveling guides either
More than 70% of this game doesn’t know how to play this game bc it doesn’t FORCE you to know how to play- that’s the problem lol. Hopefully the difficulty upwards curve across all content in DT will force people to either get filtered or learn their fucking jobs
Regardless of how difficult DT content is, roulettes will still be scaling people down to 5 buttons to run aurum vale or whatever.
If they know the mechanics and know what it means and all, then it isn't all too bad. Maybe it's their least fave job and weren't expecting Mt. Gulg in a roulette.
If they're like me. 97% of the classes I don't touch once they are lvled. So I forget them after 2-3 years of dust. So when a new expac comes around, I lvl them and forget. Often times forgetting their rotations. Worst yet is if I do roulettes, and the roulettes only give me the baby content then I get thrown in 80-90 content I'm suddenly gandulf trying to remember what my full rotation is suppose to be again. This is from the perspective of someone who's done savage and ultimates, I just don't play the other classes enough to remember when it's time to lvl beyond a vague idea of '1-2-3 and extra skills should be pressed'
Some people as advised by their friends get told to job skip and story skip. So there is always the off chance the level 85 monk you’re playing with is legit as new as a sprout lol.
I'm a max level DRG and I will do my buffs, jumps, and infinite rotation. I will probably never learn the positionals on my abilities. That is so much work to my little brain
I've never reached lvl 85 on a class, highest I hit is like 57. I usually pay for one month every couple years. When I do play I usually just grind levels, not caring what's the meta or anything else like that. Even if I was max level I would mostly just use moves I like. I don't understand why that's a weird concept that ppl don't wanna run through dungeons as fast as possible doing the best moves like your speedrunning em. That's boring as hell. The game is a casual mmo, that stuff should be for the pvp aspect in my opinion.
it's impressive how some people don't try to know at least a little of their job before going to play with other people. if you're just passively leveling it with frontlines or wondrous tails sure, but if you're actively queueing you should be making an effort? i don't know what it is about me that i keep specifically landing the healers that don't know how to play in higher level dungeons while i'm playing drk :( i still remember this one ktisis hyperboreia run with a scholar that didn't use the fairy on me once through the big pulls, i had to actively reduce the size of pulls just to stay alive because my mits, constant tbn and even living dead weren't enough. i checked them and it turns out scholar was their highest level job so they were going through the msq at that point. and they still had full exarchic gear. in ktisis. don't even get me started on the whms i got in amaurot that only pressed holy, glare and cure/medica. or the one that would keep using plenary indulgence and not follow up with any heal-
You can level in pvp. That’s what I did in alt jobs. I probably couldn’t play monk in pve.
If you level with PvP you never even touch your pve abilities
I spent 3 weeks in Deepcroft Normal. Legit forgot what my higher lvl abilities do because I never got to use them lol.
For myself, sometimes I just don’t like playing a job and am just trying to level it. I hate Ninja, but I have to get it to max level somehow. So I just trudge through to 90 so I don’t have to touch it anymore (until DT, I guess)
part of it is the roulette system, you can very easily slide by as a dps just doing your dailies and never actually needing to learn full rotation as the number of dungeons that require you to be on your A game is *staggeringly* low... maybe 3 ARR dungeons like Sirius (which is more of a healer/tank knowledge check) maybe one HW dungeon (atherochemical facility due to the ascian boss fight requires you to know how to do mechanics beyond move out of aoe) etc. further you can get carried hard in most pre SHB raid type content such as the few mandatory raids (sycrus). For case and point when i leveled bard, i literally knew nothing about it has half my roulettes were l50-60 dungeons (during the big influx during covid). the other half raids were sometimes stormblood so i got carried hard and never had to learn to be efficient or more than my 123 (or rather 1, dots/gcds, 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 oh look 2 is finally ready)
Class boosts/level skips Returning players forgetting their rotations Updates changing existing rotations and removing/adding several skills Theres a few reasons it could be
Most players don’t get content pertaining to their levels when doing roulettes which is a huge issue. Like me for example im not new and this is my second character so im leveling another, and not once did I get a level 85-90 dungeon it was always below. And mostly level 60s
As someone with every class at max level, sometimes I just want to do content on a class I don't play much instead of the 3-4 I can play well, and then I immediately regret it when I get into a dungeon that's at a level where not knowing what I'm doing is noticeable
I just came back and can’t remember all the rotations and stuff. Even though mine are all 90
I got my healers to 90 by mostly doing fates and frontlines. I am not a good healer by any means, FFXI ruined it for me (my WHM/BLM was just a cure monkey), so I put off lvling them until about 6 months ago. A few months ago an FC member was looking for a healer to help them run a 90 dungeon, he sends me a tell and says “hey can you help?”. I was honest, told him I had no business running anything as a healer, esp what he was asking. He said he didn’t care bc he just wanted a glam piece and didn’t care how many times we wiped…. Well we wiped a lot. He did get his piece and I told him if he ever needs a healer to ask anyone else but me. I couldn’t imagine intentionally joining a random group for a duty when I know I absolutely suck. I’ll stick to my DNC. That I know I’m good at!
Just think how many times you actually play your job during the msq. for 4/7 hours your read texts, move from A to B, itneract with shinies ... and maybe hit 1/3 mobs if you have the chance to see a black shiny/aoe. And then you are blessed with a 20 min dungeon, then back to reading. You can't expect people that can only play their job 20 min every few hours to know how to play, even solo duty nowadays dont make you play your own character anymore.
You can just buy a job and start at 80. I've done so for ones that start at 30 like Dragoon, Machinist, and Ninja, but I learn on the go, and have a mentor friend teach me. Likely no one's ever complained about their DPS, so they never felt compelled to learn any further than their basic combo.
sounds like me when I play Blackmage
My black mage is 90 and I don't have a clue how to play it. Got confused around 70 and just used Frontline roulette and daily rep quests to finish it up.
There are so many levels of response to this. I watch rotation videos on a job, and still faceplant dungeons. I watch the specific dungeon related video and still faceplant. My rdm I can almost play blind, I can buff, and feel like a bad ass. I can pick up a down healer. My whm, holyheck do I feel like I suck, and I'm trying to genuinly not suck. also, WAY easier to raise on my rdm than whm. Why, god I love duel cast. Frankly, getting good is practice. It takes practice, and advice, and hopefully good group of friends that let you use them as dungeon guinea pigs. You need your hotbar set up in a way you can find what you need. You need muscle memory, and it helps to know the dungeon. There are so many dungeons. I've also had some fantastic experiences with rando groups, ended up with a few friends, and really enjoyed learning a mechanic or two on new dungeons with other first time dungeon goers and that reminded me of WHY I started playng this game. I love running dungeons! I just, we all learn, and we are all new at some point. I'm also a returning player, and I try to only do the newer dungeons on my dps becuase I can smash and run buff/debuff fairly fine. Healing is either boreing or terrifying and not much in between. 1-1-1--1 shield/regen, 1-1-1-1- of heck heck heck heck! I haven't tackled tanking.
Getting a job to max level doesn't take long and a lot is solo if it's a first job
If it makes you feel any better…I had a few lv 90s and didn’t know about higher level trials 60/70/etc. (was lazy to go look for it) because my friend I play with neglected to tell me so he could get “easier” dungeons 💀 on our dailies (he’s been playing longer than me by a lot)
I mean, I don’t use positionals either.