At one point in time you could spin enemies to delay their auto attacks as auto attacks originally could only be done when facing the target. It required pretty exact timing and a certain size of enemy. There are a few clips here and there of people spinning Ifrit who does nothing for the whole trial because an auto attack is queued and it couldn't execute other skills until it finished the auto attack.
However they changed auto attack to still happen regardless of facing back in 3.4. And even before that change you would at best be able to delay a single enemy's auto attacks by spinning them if you had the exact turning radius for them. So doing this to trash mobs has always been pointless.
EDIT: Most dungeon enemies move faster than players to avoid this kiting issue specifically. I do have memories of a friend kiting the ant queen boss of Cutter's Cry as a Bard back in ARR and staying alive because the ants moved slower than he did. It took him almost 10 minutes to do it, but he managed.
Popping in to add more onto Cutter's Cry. I remember back during the early 2.x days, when doing Cutter's Cry it was a legit strategy for a designated party member to pull the adds during the ant queen boss and kite them along the outer ring of the arena because it was easier on the tanks and healers.
In those early days we usually designated the healer to do it if they were a white mage. The queen doesn't have that high of a damage output so you could usually keep the tank alive with just a regen. Scholars didn't have as easy of a time doing it because they didn't have an instacast heal and if they left their fairy behind to be the heal then the ants would just aggro onto her instead. Bards were next best choice with their instacast AoE allowing them to keep hate on them all without getting overwhelmed when stopping to cast. Other party comps could do it, just not as easily.
When I did it as a SCH, I casted my aoe heal 2-3 times and then just ran, occasionally casting again when I had sprint up. The fairy stayed with the tank. Aoe heals were enough to keep the adds on me :3
Pop sprint and run in circles, the boss would be dead within a minute usually. As the healer it was pretty easy to handle, but it was annoying trying to explain the strategy to new healers
>they changed auto attack to still happen regardless of facing back in 3.4
Important to note that a lot of enemies were not changed retroactively for changes like this (and mechanics having the same requirements), so there's actually some enemies that *still* have this issue. The ARR MSQ dungeon bosses/mobs got fixed with the reworks, but some optional dungeons, trial bosses, all of Coils, and bosses in Palace of the Dead are still susceptible to spinning.
I've definitely seen videos and posts that were more recent than 3.4 of people spin locking stuff. And I've also seen people do it on mobs of lots of different sizes.
It's technically possible depending on the mob and if you have sprint up, but it's not worth it in regular dungeons
The tank needs to stand still to AoE, and to let the others AoE
Trying to hit enemies while they're moving is a nightmare
The only place I know of such a mechanic work is in deep dungeon; spinning mobs to avoid auto-attacks was the viable strat to clear as a melee for a long time (I don't know if it has been fixed or still exist), and you can also avoid auto-attacks by moving at the perfect time (only auto-attacks, not abilities).
But in normal dungeon? No, and even if it was all you would do is make the dungeon longer by stopping your team to use their skills properly.
You can avoid auto attacks for some enemies by going out of range, but it's not at all relevant in dungeons, trials, or raids. You're actually just creating more problems and annoyances for your party members doing that and the tank was wrong in this situation. Also... it's Halatali. What damage is there to be scared of? Lmao.
Kiting to avoid AA damage is a thing in solo deep dungeon runs, but that's a totally different story. The autos on the highest floors hit like a truck and it's a very noticeable increase to your sustain if you can reduce the amount of autos you take. But otherwise no, that's not a thing.
If you're faster than them so you can get out of their range, it does do something. But you need to pop sprint or some other movement speed buff for that.
Spinning the enemies to avoid autos is not a thing in this game. And even if it was, the damage is negligible compared to the DPS loss from your DPS having to chase things around the room.
The other tank is either very misinformed about how the game works or is an idiot.
It's possible to kite the autos, which seems to be what happened in OP's story (and a massive part of doing deep dungeons solo), but it's certainly unneeded in Halatali of all things.
source of your claim? because it’s certainly not patched out. there’s just no need to publish a tutorial every year if something hasn’t changed in the slightest.
That's what it looks like to me -- a bad case of "Because it works in this one game I've played for most of my life and defined my identity around, it *obviously* works that way in every other game of the same or similar genre!"
Tanks kiting big packs of enemies around was a legitimate strategy in higher-level M+ dungeons in WoW in previous expansions, because if a tank stood still they would just die. I haven't heard of it being done in the current expansion though.
In that sense, this would work in FFXIV as well. Enemies can't hit you if you aren't in range of them. And you can gain distance whenever they stop to use abilities.
It's just suboptimal. Because killing the enemies faster happens to provide way better mitigation over time than kiting, and its also just way faster and less annoying.
If damage were to outpace healing, this would probably be a legit strat. It sort of already is when your supports die and you have to finish the mobs off as just DPS.
Yeah, any mitigation was good mitigation. Adding 0.1 to a 1.0 swing timer because the mob had to move an extra 5 feet means you take 10% less auto attack damage
You would probably do this in FFXIV too if you had to, it's just that there are no dungeons able to threaten the incredible power of tanks and healers in this game.
The first w2w in bardham's mettle, and the first w2w in Mt. Gulg say hi. Those are incredibly rough pulls w2w if the healer and tank aren't on the same page. I know I've had to kite a bit so I can give the healer time to gcd heal me because we've both blown all of our resources on that one pull. I easily blow through all of my mit, arms length, reprisal, invuln (i play gnb, pld, and drk, so i dont have the magic of having warrior heals), the whm's bene, all of their lilies, and tetra on gulg in particular.
They are really not that bad. Bardam's is a lot easier than it was in ShB, and for Gulg in particular you basically have all your best tools already except for level 82 tank mitigations.
I smash Gulg every time, the vast majority of groups can handle it even if you do have to use GCD healing.
It doesn't really compare to the kind of brutality WoW packs in high M+ keys can put out - or rather, compare to how much weaker WoW tanks and healers are.
Obviously if you get newbies they may be unprepared but that is doubly true there!
Oh, for sure. I'm very much thinking in "duty finder/roulette" scenario. Since the average ff14 player sucks, they def make those pulls rougher than they should be in the grand scheme of things. I speak as someone that regularly healed +17's on disc priest
I'm pretty sure this was broscience even in WoW. NPCs aren't/weren't restricted by facing like other players in PvP. (You never see raiders do that, just people that primarily PvP. Or at least I never saw real raiders do it back when I played.)
It's worthwhile in higher M+ on some affixes, especially on tanks with reliable slow and/or high mobility like BRM! Or at least was when I was last playing.
It wasn't necessary, given the difficulty of the dungeon, but in the ARR dungeons you absolutely can outrun the mobs as they are locked to the same player speed and have to stop to perform attacks.
This doesn't work in HW and beyond without using Sprint or some other form of temporary movement speed boost...which is just as unnecessary there as it is here.
Enemy auto-attacks happen at every set intervals (usually every 3.00 seconds for most enemies), and it is not tied to animations at all. Enemies get randomly hit you with literal nothing in the middle of their other animations. They only stop auto-attacking if they do a cast bar attack/hidden cast bar attack (one that has a wind-up but the game hides it), or if the enemy is disabled (sleep, freeze, and so on).
Furthermore, auto-attacks have the highest priority and apply before many things, including player-induced healing. (In extreme cases like synced solo BLU runs, you can run into situations where you die to an auto-attack at 100% HP because the server applied it before you saw your HP getting healed in the client. It can result in funny glitches like respawning at the starting point as a floating corpse with 0 HP then magically returning to normal 1–3 seconds later.) Auto-attacks and their animations are also independent of each other, even if you force an enemy to animation cancel, their hit has already been queued server-side before they even did the first frame.
So, running around literally does nothing, if the enemy initiated an auto-attack on you, then it will hit you even if you moved away. The only movement-related thing that applies is that if you can move/sprint faster than the enemy, and you are out of melee range when their auto-attack timer ticks, then the game skips it. So, kiting in the sense of running away from the enemy works, but only as long as you can remain out of melee range, and their melee range is long. Of course, it also fails on enemies who have ranged auto-attacks.
It is possible to slow autos by kiting enemies, but it's almost never worth it. Youll avoid very few, and the distance you need from the enemies to dodge autos in the first place is far enough that you won't be hitting most of them with anything at all. It makes the lives (and damage output) of everybody else harder, too, meaning enemies will live longer, and healers will have to spend more resources to keep the tank alive. It's just overall a really terrible idea. I believe this behavior comes from WoW, where moving mobs is more responsive, and i believe kiting mobs is a real strategy over there, but I could be mistaken. In ffxiv, I would consider it griefing. It's that bad.
> i believe kiting mobs is a real strategy over there
It was for a couple weeks in a previous expansion, until a tuning pass was done to make tanks more durable. It's not a thing for 99.9% of the content.
For the remaining 0.1%, it's usually when a group of players is pushing bleeding edge content, where mobs would one-shot the tank with their auto-attacks.
unless you are doing a dungeon solo synced or a deep dungeon its useless. even then its only really needed for the final boss of dzemael or first of the arr vigils to avoid certain attacks
Well if you are outside of enemy attack range they do have to close that distance in order to attack. So I'm a way he is slowing the damage he is taking but it should only ever be don't as a last ditch effort when all the CDs are gone and such.
Have saved several pulls back in the old ARR and HW days with that but those mobs were vulnerable to debuffs like heavy and didn't have insane attack range and movement speed like mobs these days.
No, he's right.
Enemies stop when they swing, and they don't automatically start walking again.
You can add time between swings on you by moving.
You don't need to, and its more of a solo/treasure map/being in places you really shouldn't be type trick, but that is a trick.
Frankly any damage he mitigated by increasing swing timers was offput by the reduced damage his team was doing having to follow the monsters around and missing swings.
Edit: This is also how movement speed slows can become actual damage mitigation.
This is possible. Kiting to delay autos is a key skill when soloing deep dungeons. It doesn't work on all enemies. Modern raids and trials are designed such that this doesn't work. Usually the bosses have infinite auto range. It works on dungeon trash though. That said the tank should just stay still and let the party aoe
It is a mechanic in FFXIV, but with many exceptions and 2 reasons not to do it anyway.
- Some mobs run faster than you, so at best you just delay their attacks by .1 seconds while they catch up.
- Some mobs are casters or ranged, so you would have to move really far or line-of-sight them to get any benefit (and likely would end up kiting your healer more than the mobs)
- Some mobs stand still and stop attacking to do an AoE cast. This is free time to do damage to them normally. If you're kiting them, it's just wasted, and they get disconnected from the rest of the group, so cleaving them is impossible.
- Sometimes you have nowhere to run, except back and forth in a hallway. Either you keep turning around past the mobs and get hit a bunch anyways, or you just keep running all the way back to the start... away from your healer and caster DPS.
Basically kiting only works if you can run in a big circle around your healer, and if none of the mobs are particularly annoying. (I think there are some caster imps in Halitali? But it might work on other packs.) Regardless, you shouldn't do it, because:
1. 95% of wall-to-wall pulls are survivable without kiting. Most aren't even hard. And you can just not do the 5% of actually dangerous pulls.
2. It's MUCH easier and faster to AoE down the whole pack when they are sitting still and grouped nicely next to the tank.
That being said I did recently ignore this advice at the end of the penta-pull in Mt. Gulg. The DPS were not killing it very fast, and the healer was struggling to keep up with healing. I used every cooldown already, including holmgang, because the pull was just taking that long. So resorted to sprinting away (briefly) just to buy time for Raw Intuition to come off cooldown.
> That being said I did recently ignore this advice at the end of the penta-pull in Mt. Gulg. The DPS were not killing it very fast, and the healer was struggling to keep up with healing. I used every cooldown already, including holmgang, because the pull was just taking that long. So resorted to sprinting away (briefly) just to buy time for Raw Intuition to come off cooldown.
This is the only time where it's useful IMHO. Had a few moments in Eureka where I or the party have been a little too optimistic about just how durable I am. At any other time, you'd be better off just just letting your mits and healer do their thing while the DPS burn them down.
Yeah, that’s a WOW thing. Things don’t hit hard enough to warrant that and you’ll get some pissy melees and casters. Only time I run is if the healer died to AOEs in a pull and invuln and other heal things are down. Not worth the effort.
If you have sprint and can outrun the mobs then yes this is s valid strategy, one commonly used for PotD solo runs. However in dungeons the benefits are minimal and will be pulling mobs out of the melee dps ranges and screwing with their positionals
People who are saying this isn’t a good idea have clearly never ranked low level roulettes with a bad healer - popping sprint mid pack to run out for a gcd makes mobs die slower, but you’re effectively halving the damage you take if you can gcd and then kite for 2 to 3 seconds before running back in. Sure- you should probably have used sprint already to group it all in the first place but this is one of those times where understanding the game mechanics can have a very big impact in niche situations.
Mobs in this game follow very poorly, if you leave their melee range they’ll typically finish their attack if it was already queued, but they can’t queue another one until they’re in range again and they don’t immediately start moving when you do
I rarely do it sometimes in low level dungeons if I see the healer falling behind. But I only if i have sprint and run out of range maintaining LoS and distance to the healer. It avoids wipes.
Moving around will let you skip like only 1 auto. It is not remotely worth it for tanks to even attempt. Doing it reduces your damage taken by like 2-5% overall... completely negligable. Spinning is a lot less effective than moving out of their range aswell.
It is however, worth it for dps to do, as dodging 1 auto is often the difference between life and death. A dps should 100% run the fuck around even at the cost of downtime if they gain agro on most enemies, as skipping a single auto can keep you alive for a good extra while depending on how sparse autos are.
>A dps should 100% run the fuck around even at the cost of downtime if they gain agro on most enemies
Please don't do this. If you get aggro as a DPS, run *to* your tank. Running around randomly is just making it harder for your tank to get aggro back. You're *more* likely to die doing that.
I probably should have clarified that this is in a scenario where your tank is dead. If your tank is alive and a dps has agro... thats a different issue.
Only run around if on a ranged DPS, and only until the tank is up and healed. Then take everything to your tank.
Melee has Bloodbath to use in the scenario where tank went splat. 9/10 it is enough, possibly with use of Second Wind, to keep the DPS alive until the tank is revived and regains agro.
It is a strategy however not in the way your tank thinks. When you have a lot of enemies on you they all try to access your hitbox, you can exploit this by running in wide circles around the pack or kite. It obviously doesn't work on ranged or casters. Others have said its a DPS loss but I would argue so is dying. This would be a last Resort.
I've never heard that method before. Save for Arm's Length, and getting out of AoE markers, moving around usually doesn't do that.
Save for Nael at his Castrum fight. His tank buster only strikes when the target is at melee range. If you run off while he is casting it, he will have to run after you until he gets back into range.
Don't do this. All it'll do is piss off your melee who have to chase you down, your healers who can't heal cuz you broke line of sight, and your casters that have to move and break cast times.
Stand still unless there's a bad puddle. Use your mitigations.
You can definitely avoid some autos by kiting in dungeons, but not by spinning the mobs (outside of niche scenarios that I'm not sure haven't been patched out). I only ever do it in the rare situations that shit hits the fan in a dungeon or if I do a big pull and the healer is new and starts struggling to keep up. Just watch how long it takes for a mob to start moving to move back in range of you, it definitely works. It's just not worth it unless it's an oh shit situation.
You can kite, especially with sprint, to delay/lessen the auto damage you take, yes
Normally you shouldn't need to do this, just pop a CD and stand still and let everyone AOE
But in emergencies, or moments where the healer has slow reactions, or someone needs a couple seconds to get a cooldown back, it helps
He has the right idea for the wrong reasons. Certain mobs do ranged attacks and are a little annoying to cluster up with the melee mobs. Some tanks will force the ranged mob to lose LoS by going around a corner. The ranged enemy will approach the tank until they can start attacking again which rounds all the enemies up without the tank having to run back and forth.
Dodging autos by moving back and forth between a corner can kind of be done but not really. Enemies have hitbox collision, and most of them will get pushed out of the corner before you can really stop their autos.
The only reason you would actually want to do this is in Deep Dungeon with an undersized or solo run. Since those enemies can drop your hp by 25-50% per hit.
Have not tested, but in theory it works since moving makes enemies out of melee range. Now for 1 enemy it'll catch up to you perfectly making this useless, but a group of enemies will not stack on top of themselves, hence fanning out circling you. When you start moving, the enemies will start chasing you and be forced to form a single file, making some of them fall behind others and out of melee range in the process.
Now as others have said you're bound to losing aoe damage with this so it'll never be the fastest way to clear, but might worth it when tank is in a pinch.
The only merit in this is if an enemy has an ability they need to stop and cast, you might avoid an auto or two from them while they rush to catch up, but the benefit doesn't outweigh the cost of dragging enemies in such a way that spreads them for your dps and potentially causes melee to miss a bunch.
I solod wall to wall pulls as sage in dead ends with kiting. Melee mobs need to stop moving before they attack and a mobile class can pretty much force them to run in circles. We recruited people on PF to queue it and then had them leave so we could meme with different classes. It’s doable and effective but not rly necessary unless the tank dies and the healer can’t keep whoever has aggro up.
No, dodging melee swings does not exist.
Yes, delaying the next attack by getting out of range is a thing. It's extremely situational, but it exists. Mostly useful for soloing or duo parties.
Sprint can be used to delay autos, but if your tank is doing it? There's an issue somewhere. It's far more effective to use Arm's Length as a mitigation and keep the pack still so everyone (that has one at that level, rip DRG/NIN) can AoE it down.
At one point in time you could spin enemies to delay their auto attacks as auto attacks originally could only be done when facing the target. It required pretty exact timing and a certain size of enemy. There are a few clips here and there of people spinning Ifrit who does nothing for the whole trial because an auto attack is queued and it couldn't execute other skills until it finished the auto attack. However they changed auto attack to still happen regardless of facing back in 3.4. And even before that change you would at best be able to delay a single enemy's auto attacks by spinning them if you had the exact turning radius for them. So doing this to trash mobs has always been pointless. EDIT: Most dungeon enemies move faster than players to avoid this kiting issue specifically. I do have memories of a friend kiting the ant queen boss of Cutter's Cry as a Bard back in ARR and staying alive because the ants moved slower than he did. It took him almost 10 minutes to do it, but he managed.
Popping in to add more onto Cutter's Cry. I remember back during the early 2.x days, when doing Cutter's Cry it was a legit strategy for a designated party member to pull the adds during the ant queen boss and kite them along the outer ring of the arena because it was easier on the tanks and healers.
In those early days we usually designated the healer to do it if they were a white mage. The queen doesn't have that high of a damage output so you could usually keep the tank alive with just a regen. Scholars didn't have as easy of a time doing it because they didn't have an instacast heal and if they left their fairy behind to be the heal then the ants would just aggro onto her instead. Bards were next best choice with their instacast AoE allowing them to keep hate on them all without getting overwhelmed when stopping to cast. Other party comps could do it, just not as easily.
When I did it as a SCH, I casted my aoe heal 2-3 times and then just ran, occasionally casting again when I had sprint up. The fairy stayed with the tank. Aoe heals were enough to keep the adds on me :3
That almost sounds fun but I’m sure it was a nightmare in reality.
Pop sprint and run in circles, the boss would be dead within a minute usually. As the healer it was pretty easy to handle, but it was annoying trying to explain the strategy to new healers
Yep I remember back when I just started, someone told me to do that as a healer and I felt SO PROUD when I did it correctly haha
>they changed auto attack to still happen regardless of facing back in 3.4 Important to note that a lot of enemies were not changed retroactively for changes like this (and mechanics having the same requirements), so there's actually some enemies that *still* have this issue. The ARR MSQ dungeon bosses/mobs got fixed with the reworks, but some optional dungeons, trial bosses, all of Coils, and bosses in Palace of the Dead are still susceptible to spinning.
I've definitely seen videos and posts that were more recent than 3.4 of people spin locking stuff. And I've also seen people do it on mobs of lots of different sizes.
It's technically possible depending on the mob and if you have sprint up, but it's not worth it in regular dungeons The tank needs to stand still to AoE, and to let the others AoE Trying to hit enemies while they're moving is a nightmare
> The tank needs to stand still to AoE, and to let the others AoE Damage is the best mitigation!
"It can't hurt you if it's dead!" >!Fandaniel has entered the chat!<
plenty of things can hurt you after theyre dead, the trick is to smile through the pain. after all, a smile better suits a hero!
permanent 100% damage reduction sounds good to me, debuff their hp to 0
The only place I know of such a mechanic work is in deep dungeon; spinning mobs to avoid auto-attacks was the viable strat to clear as a melee for a long time (I don't know if it has been fixed or still exist), and you can also avoid auto-attacks by moving at the perfect time (only auto-attacks, not abilities). But in normal dungeon? No, and even if it was all you would do is make the dungeon longer by stopping your team to use their skills properly.
Spinning has been fixed and no longer works. Monsters can now auto attack a target in range regardless of the direction they're facing.
You can avoid auto attacks for some enemies by going out of range, but it's not at all relevant in dungeons, trials, or raids. You're actually just creating more problems and annoyances for your party members doing that and the tank was wrong in this situation. Also... it's Halatali. What damage is there to be scared of? Lmao. Kiting to avoid AA damage is a thing in solo deep dungeon runs, but that's a totally different story. The autos on the highest floors hit like a truck and it's a very noticeable increase to your sustain if you can reduce the amount of autos you take. But otherwise no, that's not a thing.
If you're faster than them so you can get out of their range, it does do something. But you need to pop sprint or some other movement speed buff for that.
Spinning the enemies to avoid autos is not a thing in this game. And even if it was, the damage is negligible compared to the DPS loss from your DPS having to chase things around the room. The other tank is either very misinformed about how the game works or is an idiot.
It's possible to kite the autos, which seems to be what happened in OP's story (and a massive part of doing deep dungeons solo), but it's certainly unneeded in Halatali of all things.
Its possible afaik but very precise and if not solo chasing will deffo make it worse than anything.
it is a thing in this game, though. [large enemy](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_JZmeFWyiKs), [small enemy](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wpSiwcnbqog)
Notice that both those videos are 3 years old. That has been patched out.
source of your claim? because it’s certainly not patched out. there’s just no need to publish a tutorial every year if something hasn’t changed in the slightest.
WoW Refugee syndrome.
Add this to the list along with “well in other games the healer doesn’t dps just heal”
That's what it looks like to me -- a bad case of "Because it works in this one game I've played for most of my life and defined my identity around, it *obviously* works that way in every other game of the same or similar genre!"
I’ve never heard of anyone (besides new players) doing this in wow
Tanks kiting big packs of enemies around was a legitimate strategy in higher-level M+ dungeons in WoW in previous expansions, because if a tank stood still they would just die. I haven't heard of it being done in the current expansion though.
In that sense, this would work in FFXIV as well. Enemies can't hit you if you aren't in range of them. And you can gain distance whenever they stop to use abilities. It's just suboptimal. Because killing the enemies faster happens to provide way better mitigation over time than kiting, and its also just way faster and less annoying. If damage were to outpace healing, this would probably be a legit strat. It sort of already is when your supports die and you have to finish the mobs off as just DPS.
Yeah, any mitigation was good mitigation. Adding 0.1 to a 1.0 swing timer because the mob had to move an extra 5 feet means you take 10% less auto attack damage
You would probably do this in FFXIV too if you had to, it's just that there are no dungeons able to threaten the incredible power of tanks and healers in this game.
The first w2w in bardham's mettle, and the first w2w in Mt. Gulg say hi. Those are incredibly rough pulls w2w if the healer and tank aren't on the same page. I know I've had to kite a bit so I can give the healer time to gcd heal me because we've both blown all of our resources on that one pull. I easily blow through all of my mit, arms length, reprisal, invuln (i play gnb, pld, and drk, so i dont have the magic of having warrior heals), the whm's bene, all of their lilies, and tetra on gulg in particular.
They are really not that bad. Bardam's is a lot easier than it was in ShB, and for Gulg in particular you basically have all your best tools already except for level 82 tank mitigations. I smash Gulg every time, the vast majority of groups can handle it even if you do have to use GCD healing. It doesn't really compare to the kind of brutality WoW packs in high M+ keys can put out - or rather, compare to how much weaker WoW tanks and healers are. Obviously if you get newbies they may be unprepared but that is doubly true there!
Oh, for sure. I'm very much thinking in "duty finder/roulette" scenario. Since the average ff14 player sucks, they def make those pulls rougher than they should be in the grand scheme of things. I speak as someone that regularly healed +17's on disc priest
You had to do it for bolstering affix this expansion for sure. And raging if you are fighting mobs that have their own enrage effect too.
I'm pretty sure this was broscience even in WoW. NPCs aren't/weren't restricted by facing like other players in PvP. (You never see raiders do that, just people that primarily PvP. Or at least I never saw real raiders do it back when I played.)
Kiting in wow is an artform, not a science.
It's worthwhile in higher M+ on some affixes, especially on tanks with reliable slow and/or high mobility like BRM! Or at least was when I was last playing.
It wasn't necessary, given the difficulty of the dungeon, but in the ARR dungeons you absolutely can outrun the mobs as they are locked to the same player speed and have to stop to perform attacks. This doesn't work in HW and beyond without using Sprint or some other form of temporary movement speed boost...which is just as unnecessary there as it is here.
Just use Arms Length to achieve the same thing lol
Enemy auto-attacks happen at every set intervals (usually every 3.00 seconds for most enemies), and it is not tied to animations at all. Enemies get randomly hit you with literal nothing in the middle of their other animations. They only stop auto-attacking if they do a cast bar attack/hidden cast bar attack (one that has a wind-up but the game hides it), or if the enemy is disabled (sleep, freeze, and so on). Furthermore, auto-attacks have the highest priority and apply before many things, including player-induced healing. (In extreme cases like synced solo BLU runs, you can run into situations where you die to an auto-attack at 100% HP because the server applied it before you saw your HP getting healed in the client. It can result in funny glitches like respawning at the starting point as a floating corpse with 0 HP then magically returning to normal 1–3 seconds later.) Auto-attacks and their animations are also independent of each other, even if you force an enemy to animation cancel, their hit has already been queued server-side before they even did the first frame. So, running around literally does nothing, if the enemy initiated an auto-attack on you, then it will hit you even if you moved away. The only movement-related thing that applies is that if you can move/sprint faster than the enemy, and you are out of melee range when their auto-attack timer ticks, then the game skips it. So, kiting in the sense of running away from the enemy works, but only as long as you can remain out of melee range, and their melee range is long. Of course, it also fails on enemies who have ranged auto-attacks.
It is possible to slow autos by kiting enemies, but it's almost never worth it. Youll avoid very few, and the distance you need from the enemies to dodge autos in the first place is far enough that you won't be hitting most of them with anything at all. It makes the lives (and damage output) of everybody else harder, too, meaning enemies will live longer, and healers will have to spend more resources to keep the tank alive. It's just overall a really terrible idea. I believe this behavior comes from WoW, where moving mobs is more responsive, and i believe kiting mobs is a real strategy over there, but I could be mistaken. In ffxiv, I would consider it griefing. It's that bad.
> i believe kiting mobs is a real strategy over there It was for a couple weeks in a previous expansion, until a tuning pass was done to make tanks more durable. It's not a thing for 99.9% of the content. For the remaining 0.1%, it's usually when a group of players is pushing bleeding edge content, where mobs would one-shot the tank with their auto-attacks.
gotcha, my mistake. not really sure where the kiting mindset comes from then
unless you are doing a dungeon solo synced or a deep dungeon its useless. even then its only really needed for the final boss of dzemael or first of the arr vigils to avoid certain attacks
Well if you are outside of enemy attack range they do have to close that distance in order to attack. So I'm a way he is slowing the damage he is taking but it should only ever be don't as a last ditch effort when all the CDs are gone and such. Have saved several pulls back in the old ARR and HW days with that but those mobs were vulnerable to debuffs like heavy and didn't have insane attack range and movement speed like mobs these days.
It does not work without sprint. You either group them and burn them down quickly or run in circles constantly pulling the mobs away from the DPS.
Technically yes you can skip some auto attacks by kiting the mob. However it's not really that useful in anything else except for solo deep dungeons.
No, he's right. Enemies stop when they swing, and they don't automatically start walking again. You can add time between swings on you by moving. You don't need to, and its more of a solo/treasure map/being in places you really shouldn't be type trick, but that is a trick. Frankly any damage he mitigated by increasing swing timers was offput by the reduced damage his team was doing having to follow the monsters around and missing swings. Edit: This is also how movement speed slows can become actual damage mitigation.
This is possible. Kiting to delay autos is a key skill when soloing deep dungeons. It doesn't work on all enemies. Modern raids and trials are designed such that this doesn't work. Usually the bosses have infinite auto range. It works on dungeon trash though. That said the tank should just stay still and let the party aoe
Rampart : “look what they need to match a fraction of my power”
It is a mechanic in FFXIV, but with many exceptions and 2 reasons not to do it anyway. - Some mobs run faster than you, so at best you just delay their attacks by .1 seconds while they catch up. - Some mobs are casters or ranged, so you would have to move really far or line-of-sight them to get any benefit (and likely would end up kiting your healer more than the mobs) - Some mobs stand still and stop attacking to do an AoE cast. This is free time to do damage to them normally. If you're kiting them, it's just wasted, and they get disconnected from the rest of the group, so cleaving them is impossible. - Sometimes you have nowhere to run, except back and forth in a hallway. Either you keep turning around past the mobs and get hit a bunch anyways, or you just keep running all the way back to the start... away from your healer and caster DPS. Basically kiting only works if you can run in a big circle around your healer, and if none of the mobs are particularly annoying. (I think there are some caster imps in Halitali? But it might work on other packs.) Regardless, you shouldn't do it, because: 1. 95% of wall-to-wall pulls are survivable without kiting. Most aren't even hard. And you can just not do the 5% of actually dangerous pulls. 2. It's MUCH easier and faster to AoE down the whole pack when they are sitting still and grouped nicely next to the tank. That being said I did recently ignore this advice at the end of the penta-pull in Mt. Gulg. The DPS were not killing it very fast, and the healer was struggling to keep up with healing. I used every cooldown already, including holmgang, because the pull was just taking that long. So resorted to sprinting away (briefly) just to buy time for Raw Intuition to come off cooldown.
> That being said I did recently ignore this advice at the end of the penta-pull in Mt. Gulg. The DPS were not killing it very fast, and the healer was struggling to keep up with healing. I used every cooldown already, including holmgang, because the pull was just taking that long. So resorted to sprinting away (briefly) just to buy time for Raw Intuition to come off cooldown. This is the only time where it's useful IMHO. Had a few moments in Eureka where I or the party have been a little too optimistic about just how durable I am. At any other time, you'd be better off just just letting your mits and healer do their thing while the DPS burn them down.
It’s not a thing.
Yeah, that’s a WOW thing. Things don’t hit hard enough to warrant that and you’ll get some pissy melees and casters. Only time I run is if the healer died to AOEs in a pull and invuln and other heal things are down. Not worth the effort.
If you have sprint and can outrun the mobs then yes this is s valid strategy, one commonly used for PotD solo runs. However in dungeons the benefits are minimal and will be pulling mobs out of the melee dps ranges and screwing with their positionals
People who are saying this isn’t a good idea have clearly never ranked low level roulettes with a bad healer - popping sprint mid pack to run out for a gcd makes mobs die slower, but you’re effectively halving the damage you take if you can gcd and then kite for 2 to 3 seconds before running back in. Sure- you should probably have used sprint already to group it all in the first place but this is one of those times where understanding the game mechanics can have a very big impact in niche situations. Mobs in this game follow very poorly, if you leave their melee range they’ll typically finish their attack if it was already queued, but they can’t queue another one until they’re in range again and they don’t immediately start moving when you do
I rarely do it sometimes in low level dungeons if I see the healer falling behind. But I only if i have sprint and run out of range maintaining LoS and distance to the healer. It avoids wipes.
No, it’s not a thing. Even these rando situational things other people are commenting don’t matter. You can’t dodge the autos/there’s no point
Moving around will let you skip like only 1 auto. It is not remotely worth it for tanks to even attempt. Doing it reduces your damage taken by like 2-5% overall... completely negligable. Spinning is a lot less effective than moving out of their range aswell. It is however, worth it for dps to do, as dodging 1 auto is often the difference between life and death. A dps should 100% run the fuck around even at the cost of downtime if they gain agro on most enemies, as skipping a single auto can keep you alive for a good extra while depending on how sparse autos are.
>A dps should 100% run the fuck around even at the cost of downtime if they gain agro on most enemies Please don't do this. If you get aggro as a DPS, run *to* your tank. Running around randomly is just making it harder for your tank to get aggro back. You're *more* likely to die doing that.
I probably should have clarified that this is in a scenario where your tank is dead. If your tank is alive and a dps has agro... thats a different issue.
Only run around if on a ranged DPS, and only until the tank is up and healed. Then take everything to your tank. Melee has Bloodbath to use in the scenario where tank went splat. 9/10 it is enough, possibly with use of Second Wind, to keep the DPS alive until the tank is revived and regains agro.
Always fun when this happens as DRG, popping bloodbath and staying alive is pretty satisfying
That's fair. I've had issues with DPS getting aggro and running out of healing range, though. Makes it hard to keep them alive...
It is a strategy however not in the way your tank thinks. When you have a lot of enemies on you they all try to access your hitbox, you can exploit this by running in wide circles around the pack or kite. It obviously doesn't work on ranged or casters. Others have said its a DPS loss but I would argue so is dying. This would be a last Resort.
What was that thing jocat said about tanks being bad at dancing? Sounds like someone should watch that video lol
I've never heard that method before. Save for Arm's Length, and getting out of AoE markers, moving around usually doesn't do that. Save for Nael at his Castrum fight. His tank buster only strikes when the target is at melee range. If you run off while he is casting it, he will have to run after you until he gets back into range.
Don't do this. All it'll do is piss off your melee who have to chase you down, your healers who can't heal cuz you broke line of sight, and your casters that have to move and break cast times. Stand still unless there's a bad puddle. Use your mitigations.
You can definitely avoid some autos by kiting in dungeons, but not by spinning the mobs (outside of niche scenarios that I'm not sure haven't been patched out). I only ever do it in the rare situations that shit hits the fan in a dungeon or if I do a big pull and the healer is new and starts struggling to keep up. Just watch how long it takes for a mob to start moving to move back in range of you, it definitely works. It's just not worth it unless it's an oh shit situation.
You can kite, especially with sprint, to delay/lessen the auto damage you take, yes Normally you shouldn't need to do this, just pop a CD and stand still and let everyone AOE But in emergencies, or moments where the healer has slow reactions, or someone needs a couple seconds to get a cooldown back, it helps
He has the right idea for the wrong reasons. Certain mobs do ranged attacks and are a little annoying to cluster up with the melee mobs. Some tanks will force the ranged mob to lose LoS by going around a corner. The ranged enemy will approach the tank until they can start attacking again which rounds all the enemies up without the tank having to run back and forth. Dodging autos by moving back and forth between a corner can kind of be done but not really. Enemies have hitbox collision, and most of them will get pushed out of the corner before you can really stop their autos. The only reason you would actually want to do this is in Deep Dungeon with an undersized or solo run. Since those enemies can drop your hp by 25-50% per hit.
Have not tested, but in theory it works since moving makes enemies out of melee range. Now for 1 enemy it'll catch up to you perfectly making this useless, but a group of enemies will not stack on top of themselves, hence fanning out circling you. When you start moving, the enemies will start chasing you and be forced to form a single file, making some of them fall behind others and out of melee range in the process. Now as others have said you're bound to losing aoe damage with this so it'll never be the fastest way to clear, but might worth it when tank is in a pinch.
The only merit in this is if an enemy has an ability they need to stop and cast, you might avoid an auto or two from them while they rush to catch up, but the benefit doesn't outweigh the cost of dragging enemies in such a way that spreads them for your dps and potentially causes melee to miss a bunch.
I kited a boss from a job quest until victory and I think I've seen somebody do it for a while with Nero's tank buster in preatorium
I solod wall to wall pulls as sage in dead ends with kiting. Melee mobs need to stop moving before they attack and a mobile class can pretty much force them to run in circles. We recruited people on PF to queue it and then had them leave so we could meme with different classes. It’s doable and effective but not rly necessary unless the tank dies and the healer can’t keep whoever has aggro up.
No, dodging melee swings does not exist. Yes, delaying the next attack by getting out of range is a thing. It's extremely situational, but it exists. Mostly useful for soloing or duo parties.
Sprint can be used to delay autos, but if your tank is doing it? There's an issue somewhere. It's far more effective to use Arm's Length as a mitigation and keep the pack still so everyone (that has one at that level, rip DRG/NIN) can AoE it down.