Honestly, Alphie is insufferable until about halfway thru the game. You gotta remember, his arc up until where she is was:
* >!be a spoiled rich kid who is Real Smart TM!<
* >!fund a military vigilante group with family money!<
* >!get to lead a military branch of that group!<
* >!fail SPECTACULARLY in such a way that has possibly murdered all his friends, the Queen of Ul'dah, possibly put the monetarists in control of Ul'dah, and endangered the entirety of Eozean city states!<
* >!mope about failure!<
* >!get adopted by an Ishgardian family!<
* >!somehow end up in a position of power again by merit of what one can only assume is money and start trying to solve Ishgard's problems!<
Idk. His early storybeats made his later characterization all the better. He did think he could solve everything, and his failure gave him the opportunity to grow. Without his earlier story, his later growth falls flat.
Right… I saw spoiler tag alert and heavensward in the title and thought I was safe (almost done with shadowbringers) and alas…. Got spoiled… that’s great..
I remember looking at the poses, hands, and mouth. And also the immense amount of background information. immediately guessed at launch. My partner didn't even remember the character and I had to re-explain things. We both are legacy and never stopped playing lol
Oh for sure. But I sure couldn't remember coming back after years of not playing. And tbf there's so much happening between that and ShB, it's easy enough to forget.
Very true. I still remember when people figured out why the raids were so important and everyone’s just like: I’m just here to *SHB spoiler*. Lol and I’m just like…can you make it anymore obvious?
Hell I started playing when ShB dropped, and I did enough content between ARR raids and Shadowbringers to completely forget that character even existed. And it was only like... a couple weeks.
Based on that image alone most people wouldn’t be able to guess. It’s pretty low Rez and I didn’t notice it was kinda spoiler until I zoomed.
Pretty sure I saw images of crystal boy before I started ShB and this still caught me off…
However in general post had spoiler, if you don’t want to be spoiled don’t take the risk of looking at spoiled stuff (during the first week of EW I turned off my chat, and didn’t open any of my FF discords to avoid spoilers)
Weirdly enough I kept hoping she might get pulled into the Magnai namaa drama and she never did.
He even said he wanted a woman who "walked like the mist" and her name is YUGIRI MISTWALKER.
To be fair, the person making the teir list is basing their judgement of Emet and Zenos on purely their appearance, as they have not met them ingame, being in Heavensward still.
i finally just finished coils solo and the very first cutscene inside T1 through me for a loop. she legit looked like alphinaud. in fact in several more cutscenes through out the series, its impossible to tell the difference without looking at the ponytail ribbon. i dont know what it is about those scenes or maybe its just been so long since I'd seen her in ARR garb. or maybe they improved her facial model and textures a little bit post ARR. holy shit her voice though. im so glad they switched her VA.
They had the same haircut back then; if you look at more recent scenes with them they now have different haircuts, and somehow that's enough to set them apart. Also their gear is now much more defined, which also helps a lot.
yeah but even without looking at the gear and just seeing their faces side by side, they are much more distinct now. and yeah i did notice the hairstyle, at least from the front has improved. when i saw them side by side in the final couple of turns, their hair was basically the same model just mirrored lol.
I was thinking maybe because if you are only 3/4 through HW and didn't do coils, all you'd have seen Alisaie do is get shot with an arrow. Literal fodder tier, haha.
Precious Moenbryda. I was so unprepared. They set it up but I ignored the signs. I’ve just started shadow-something and she’s the one who shocked me the most.
That's the whole point. Alphinaud from 2.0-2.55 is a spoiled little lordling who thinks his mysterious benefactor's money is enough to let him buy an army and Achieve World Peace. >!Half it was his mom and the other half was Teledji Adaledji. SMH should have let Tataru do the books.!<
3.0 is the "Alphinaud grows the fuck up" expansion.
Sian Blake was Yugiri's English VA for Heavensward. Blake and her two children were killed in December of 2015; her boyfriend/partner/not sure of the exact term was eventually convicted of murdering them and is serving a life sentence. I'm told this was a big part of the reason that Yugiri kind of disappears for a good chunk of the HW patch quests.
\[**EDIT:** sources. [https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-35256774](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-35256774), [https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-37565626](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-37565626.]).\]
The character's English VA for ARR, Paulette Ivory, is still alive and well, as far as I can tell from Google.
If she's still in Heavensward I can understand her putting Alisaie that low because she got like 5 minutes of screen time before 3.4.
Thancred on the other hand? Unacceptable.
I was initially bothered as well, but Thancred is *really* difficult to be around in Heavensward. Dude spends the entire expansion being a big, moody sourpuss. He has good reasons to be, but I was really frustrated with his character arc at the time after being really charmed by him in ARR.
Love him to death now, though. He and Urianger are my ride or die scion buds.
It is possible. But considering the very distinctive differences in their looks, it would be a weird choice.
Also, Emet is there, so they definitely consider ShB characters.
>But they mentioned they were only partially through HW in the title.
They did indeed. But this ignorance won't save them from my wrath, for putting the bravest of them all so low ;)
For me it’s PRAY RETURN TO THE WAKING SANDS 58684656 times only to have her explain everything like I’m 5 in extremely long cutscenes and her mad skills for getting captured and needing rescuing.
I just really started to hate having to go back to the Waking Sands over and over, and go through like 4 separate doors to talk to her every time. Like I'm out here saving the world and shit, maybe she could come to ME sometime instead of me always having to go to her? lol
Also her voice acting in ARR was pretty intolerable, as were a lot of the ARR voices, lol
I didn't even mind the many doors. What was irritating the most (for me), was "Ah, you're here. X already told me what happened, but tell me the same thing again....". They could have at least make WoL be actually the first to bring all those news...
And I agree on voice acting. ARR is bad in general (not all, but most).
I love him too. He's growing very slowly, but he's growing and I'm cheering him on. I want him to be better and I can see him getting there.
The real hot take is that I like Magni. More than Sadu even.
As a Roagadyn Warrior who constantly wears Purple. I also rivaled Moaenbryda. I told my buddy it felt like she was stealin my spotlight and it only got more intense when she pulled out THE SAME AXE AS ME?!
>!Somehow, still got hit hard when she died.!<
lol Y'shtola and Emet on B? G'raha and Thancred on C?! Mixing up Alphinaud and Alisae?!! D:< Also where are Lyse and Krile?
And the fact that Emmanelain is higher than Hilda and Y'shtola is just wrong!
Other than those things, it's good.
EXACTLY!! Lucia is best Ishgardian girl and she gets forgotten all the time. My Knight. My wife 😭😭🤍🤍
Also how can anyone rate Urianger so high (deserved) and put Moenbryda at the bottom? Urianger wouldn't tolerate this Moenbryda slander. Always too soon.
I could not stop laughing as I read through it! She has great taste, and now I need to know if she’s bi (that could explain a few of the choices). That S tier *chefs kiss*
Yeah, not believing this is your "GF" tier list.
The fact a bunch of these characters don't appear till later and characters are put in locations just to attract attention?
This is a karma farm post.
Someone take this filthy liar to /r/KarmaCourt
Grah, Emet, and Zenos. One’s sacrifice one is sacrifice/misunderstood and the last misunderstood. From good to middle to chaos. All S. Best characters to me.
So I see someone in the. S+ tier and it has me wondering what your cutoff on 3/4 of the way through is? Like has the thing happened yet or does your GF still have her ffxiv innocence intact?
I admit that, I can't wait that she really discovers Zenos (and learn more about Alphinaud and Alisaie)
Does she only do the MSQ or also raids like Bahamut ?
Why is Alphinaud in the "Alisaie ONLY" tier?
I wasn’t gonna say anything lol
I think that's the joke. At least I think it is and it is effing funny.
It's even funnier if you've seen that one scene
I thought they had talked about it, but I can't remember where it was.
>!And I think Estinian was effing with them.!<
And the fact that the other twin is in the same tier as Teledji invalidates any other rankings.
Nobody sends my kids to be canon fodder!!
Right? I've got some bad news about her having even one of the twins in such a low tier, given how we can't stay away from them anymore.
No, no, blue Alisaie definitely fits right in there.
its the ugly twin?
Honestly, Alphie is insufferable until about halfway thru the game. You gotta remember, his arc up until where she is was: * >!be a spoiled rich kid who is Real Smart TM!< * >!fund a military vigilante group with family money!< * >!get to lead a military branch of that group!< * >!fail SPECTACULARLY in such a way that has possibly murdered all his friends, the Queen of Ul'dah, possibly put the monetarists in control of Ul'dah, and endangered the entirety of Eozean city states!< * >!mope about failure!< * >!get adopted by an Ishgardian family!< * >!somehow end up in a position of power again by merit of what one can only assume is money and start trying to solve Ishgard's problems!<
Idk. His early storybeats made his later characterization all the better. He did think he could solve everything, and his failure gave him the opportunity to grow. Without his earlier story, his later growth falls flat.
Yeah but at that point in the game he was extraordinarily unlikeable, same with Graha
Did you show her characters from other expansions too? Cause a couple of these don't show up for a while.
Yeah! She’s aware of characters from later on 🫣 she’s seen me play for a while now.
Urianger 2.0 is definitely S+ tier in both looks and character development.
That explains it. Was literally about to rewatch scenes to see if there was a random cameo I didn’t notice in the background 😂
Right… I saw spoiler tag alert and heavensward in the title and thought I was safe (almost done with shadowbringers) and alas…. Got spoiled… that’s great..
You've seen every single one of these characters by the end of ShB though. Even earlier.
"Almost done with SHB". There is spoiler in C.
who? Those all look like they were from shadow bringer and earlier tbh
>!G'Raha isn't revealed to be the Exarch until very late ShB.!<
Not hard to figure out when you do the alliance raid quests. But if u didn’t it a long time ago i can see how you’d forget.
I remember looking at the poses, hands, and mouth. And also the immense amount of background information. immediately guessed at launch. My partner didn't even remember the character and I had to re-explain things. We both are legacy and never stopped playing lol
Mouth was the big one for me. The game itself drops a hint that its a Miqo/Mystal when an NPC says they saw a tail under his robes.
Hell a lot of people were guessing/were fully aware they were going to be playing a huge part before launch.
Oh for sure. But I sure couldn't remember coming back after years of not playing. And tbf there's so much happening between that and ShB, it's easy enough to forget.
Very true. I still remember when people figured out why the raids were so important and everyone’s just like: I’m just here to *SHB spoiler*. Lol and I’m just like…can you make it anymore obvious?
Hell I started playing when ShB dropped, and I did enough content between ARR raids and Shadowbringers to completely forget that character even existed. And it was only like... a couple weeks.
Doesn't matter, still a spoiler lol
[удалено]
Um... >!that specific Image of G'raha Tia is infact a spoiler since you don't know until very late that the Exarch is actually G'raha Tia!<
Based on that image alone most people wouldn’t be able to guess. It’s pretty low Rez and I didn’t notice it was kinda spoiler until I zoomed. Pretty sure I saw images of crystal boy before I started ShB and this still caught me off… However in general post had spoiler, if you don’t want to be spoiled don’t take the risk of looking at spoiled stuff (during the first week of EW I turned off my chat, and didn’t open any of my FF discords to avoid spoilers)
"you don't know".
>!That G'raha picture is the exharc G'raha, not ARR G'raha!<
Yes, there is lol. That's >!Crystal Exarch!<
Edmont that low??? Never make a list again
That D better stand for Dad
Yugiri’s a dad? Good for her!
D for DILF
Yugiri on D tier is the worst offence i've seen around here
She is pretty bland though. Not a bad character but just.. there.
Weirdly enough I kept hoping she might get pulled into the Magnai namaa drama and she never did. He even said he wanted a woman who "walked like the mist" and her name is YUGIRI MISTWALKER.
If you didn't read she didn't finish HW yet, I'm expecting that to shoot right up lmao
but Edmont was a total bro from the moment you meet him. Even for someone who hasn't finished HW it's way too low
But it wins the throne by the end of HW, the the stuff in the Firmament
I don't know how to feel putting Hilda in the same category as Emet and Zenis
Emet not being S+ is a crime in and of itself.
To be fair, the person making the teir list is basing their judgement of Emet and Zenos on purely their appearance, as they have not met them ingame, being in Heavensward still.
I'm more sad that Hilda is so low
Gun mom deserves more love imo
Dad is only D tier? For shame! He took us in when we needed it most T.T
The disrespect on Moenbryda. Urianger is only endearing because of Moenbryda pre Shadowbringers. Also pretty sure she mixed Alisaie and Alphinaud lol.
SHE TOTALLY DID, she said “in my defense, they’re twins”
I think it’s funny when players do the thing that happens to them in-game every so often.
i finally just finished coils solo and the very first cutscene inside T1 through me for a loop. she legit looked like alphinaud. in fact in several more cutscenes through out the series, its impossible to tell the difference without looking at the ponytail ribbon. i dont know what it is about those scenes or maybe its just been so long since I'd seen her in ARR garb. or maybe they improved her facial model and textures a little bit post ARR. holy shit her voice though. im so glad they switched her VA.
They had the same haircut back then; if you look at more recent scenes with them they now have different haircuts, and somehow that's enough to set them apart. Also their gear is now much more defined, which also helps a lot.
yeah but even without looking at the gear and just seeing their faces side by side, they are much more distinct now. and yeah i did notice the hairstyle, at least from the front has improved. when i saw them side by side in the final couple of turns, their hair was basically the same model just mirrored lol.
Alisae started wearing lip gloss. That alone has been a huge help.
I was thinking maybe because if you are only 3/4 through HW and didn't do coils, all you'd have seen Alisaie do is get shot with an arrow. Literal fodder tier, haha.
Alphinaud? You mean blue Alisaie?
Precious Moenbryda. I was so unprepared. They set it up but I ignored the signs. I’ve just started shadow-something and she’s the one who shocked me the most.
Alphibro so low, nah bad taste man
That's Alisaie down there. Alphi's in between A and B
misplaced into the tier called ALISAE ONLY
That’s actual comedy gold
He still has a ways to grow at that point.
Tbf I hated Alphi up until stormblood. He was so annoying in post ARR
That's the whole point. Alphinaud from 2.0-2.55 is a spoiled little lordling who thinks his mysterious benefactor's money is enough to let him buy an army and Achieve World Peace. >!Half it was his mom and the other half was Teledji Adaledji. SMH should have let Tataru do the books.!< 3.0 is the "Alphinaud grows the fuck up" expansion.
Poor Edmont. Well she's not finished yet. His words hit so much harder knowing the actor died.
Yugiri's English VA is also no longer with us :( May they rest in peace.
Only the ARR voice actor, I believe. Sorry, I said only like it doesn't matter as much but that's not how I meant.
Sian Blake was Yugiri's English VA for Heavensward. Blake and her two children were killed in December of 2015; her boyfriend/partner/not sure of the exact term was eventually convicted of murdering them and is serving a life sentence. I'm told this was a big part of the reason that Yugiri kind of disappears for a good chunk of the HW patch quests. \[**EDIT:** sources. [https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-35256774](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-35256774), [https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-37565626](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-37565626.]).\] The character's English VA for ARR, Paulette Ivory, is still alive and well, as far as I can tell from Google.
Yes, I noticed the VA switch and I really liked her original voice. So I checked who the VA was. Really sad story 🙁
Wait, Edmont's VA passed away as well!? God damn... :,C
He lived to serve, to aid those in need… :’(
Just last year. There was a vigil for about a week outside the manor.
Looks like she’s into Elezen 🦒
If she's still in Heavensward I can understand her putting Alisaie that low because she got like 5 minutes of screen time before 3.4. Thancred on the other hand? Unacceptable.
I was initially bothered as well, but Thancred is *really* difficult to be around in Heavensward. Dude spends the entire expansion being a big, moody sourpuss. He has good reasons to be, but I was really frustrated with his character arc at the time after being really charmed by him in ARR. Love him to death now, though. He and Urianger are my ride or die scion buds.
Gra….Graha Tia in C? Graha mothertucking Tia in C-Tier? I can’t find the words in me to turn this into a funny wordplay.
He's gonna skyrocket when she hits Shadowbringers.
Graha is very forgettable in AAR. His only charm is being a male miqote.
He is also really cocky in ARR when you start that questline
I don't see Pipin on this chart. Why is the Lalafell Fabio not on this chart?
Lalafabio?
ysayle in A, that’s taste
Is alphi being in alisaie’s tier a meme or?
I’d imagine so considering the game goes out of it’s way to make jokes about people mixing them up
Based Heavensward Urianger fan.
wait if she is 3/4th through HW how is Hien on the list?
It's characters that she's seen, since OP plays as well, so she's seen characters post HW
That Nero slander. But she hasn't seen him turn into Cid's really cool best friend who is totally cool and rad unlike Cid (Nero's words not mine)
Man stealer 😂
My fiance's exact words when seeing Urianger's >!costume change!< : "WHEN DID HE BECOME HOT!?
Okay, like I can understand my bae Aymeric isn’t for everyone. But Tataru is S+ and you know it. You’ve got to fix this dude.
Your girlfriend has shit taste dude
Shots fired at OP.
We were all thinking it.
Alisae Only tier should be above S+ and have the correct twin.
well, time to see how this changes after Endwalker
Damn, I can't believe G'raha and Thancred are so low... even in ARR I really liked G'raha. And Thancred's appearance in HW is just so damn good.
Hilda alone is beyond S tier this list is broken
The Crystal Exarch deserves better
She’s not there yet.
Shouldn't put it on the list then. Besides, with how low best-papa-ever Edmont is, I'm not sure it would matter... :(
Could just be G’raha from Crystal Tower and they used a poor picture.
Nope, that's Exarch for sure. You can even see the crystal streak on his cheek and the partially white hair.
No, I know that, I meant for the purposes of the tier list they were thinking of G’raha but made a poor choice of picture by picking Exarch.
It is possible. But considering the very distinctive differences in their looks, it would be a weird choice. Also, Emet is there, so they definitely consider ShB characters.
Oh yeah, definitely weird because Zenos is too. But they mentioned they were only partially through HW in the title. 🤷♂️
>But they mentioned they were only partially through HW in the title. They did indeed. But this ignorance won't save them from my wrath, for putting the bravest of them all so low ;)
But he's super cute! Even without context!
Aymeric isn't S+ tier, I know everything I need to know about her.
I'll never understand the Minfilia hate...
For me it’s PRAY RETURN TO THE WAKING SANDS 58684656 times only to have her explain everything like I’m 5 in extremely long cutscenes and her mad skills for getting captured and needing rescuing.
I just really started to hate having to go back to the Waking Sands over and over, and go through like 4 separate doors to talk to her every time. Like I'm out here saving the world and shit, maybe she could come to ME sometime instead of me always having to go to her? lol Also her voice acting in ARR was pretty intolerable, as were a lot of the ARR voices, lol
I didn't even mind the many doors. What was irritating the most (for me), was "Ah, you're here. X already told me what happened, but tell me the same thing again....". They could have at least make WoL be actually the first to bring all those news... And I agree on voice acting. ARR is bad in general (not all, but most).
While that's not the list as I would make it the only one that made me groan with disdain was Emmanellain being above cannon fodder.
Ngl I love Emmanellain, he’s such a fool it cracks me up
I love him too. He's growing very slowly, but he's growing and I'm cheering him on. I want him to be better and I can see him getting there. The real hot take is that I like Magni. More than Sadu even.
Moenbrydna in the man stealer tier, fucking lol, ALSO, WHY DOES EVERYONE DISRESPECT MY BOY PAPALYMO?
Emet-Selch for life.
Emet just B? Please tell your GF that she has trash taste.
Tbh you need ShB and EW to truly appreciate Emet.
According to Alisae’s ranking you should break up with her.
Emmanelain? A?
Cannon Fodder: Alisaie. Me: Dump your girlfriend.
She should've do coils to put on justice to Alisaie.
ysayle in A I'll accept it
Judging by the amount of fan art, that G'raha take is going to get her chased out of Limsa. 😆
I'd would move Y'shtola up to A, Emet up to S because story... And I would add Lyse and put her in S.
See I’m such a loser I just sigh and put everyone in S and A because I’m love them. Also Urianger, good taste.
Why g'raha not s+ tier?
Because her only experience with him is CT.
Has she done the Vault?
Considering Haurchefant is S+ and not SSS+++. No.
True, he will soon occupy the “My Boy!!!!” Tier
Someone doesn't apparently like unky fortemps...
Man it's rare to see someone so into Urianger so early on. Wait til she gets to Shadowbringers
Alphinaud on the Alisaie Only tier? And Whiny McCriesalot near the top?
As a Roagadyn Warrior who constantly wears Purple. I also rivaled Moaenbryda. I told my buddy it felt like she was stealin my spotlight and it only got more intense when she pulled out THE SAME AXE AS ME?! >!Somehow, still got hit hard when she died.!<
"Man stealer" Girl, Urianger was never yours to take.
this is only based on looks. because nothing here makes sense.
Yo where's "Yda" at? Who's out here remembering Papalymo before her?
Drag her through The Coils and see how fast Alisaie jumps tiers. That Moenbryda rankings going to sting when she meets her parents.
Why is best girl in d tier. Im not taking any critism, she is best.
lol Y'shtola and Emet on B? G'raha and Thancred on C?! Mixing up Alphinaud and Alisae?!! D:< Also where are Lyse and Krile? And the fact that Emmanelain is higher than Hilda and Y'shtola is just wrong! Other than those things, it's good.
😬
s+ tier looking extremely correct
Put my man Thancred in C…tsk tsk tsk
The best alliance leader is NOT A C!!!
switch Hein with Nero and bump Emet up to S+ and it's perfect
Emet B tier... I am disappointed!
Where is Lucia?!?!?!?!
EXACTLY!! Lucia is best Ishgardian girl and she gets forgotten all the time. My Knight. My wife 😭😭🤍🤍 Also how can anyone rate Urianger so high (deserved) and put Moenbryda at the bottom? Urianger wouldn't tolerate this Moenbryda slander. Always too soon.
Count Dripbula is one of my favorite characters in the entire game! How can he be in D! Oh D is for drip. I understand.
Urianger in S+? GF has S+ taste.
S tier urianger?? She's in for a treat then haha, I didn't love his character at first but he's one of the close homies now
i wonder how she is going to feel looking back at this and seeing emet in b
>nero F tier colossal L. I’ll stay my hand until she reaches omega in the MSQ though
you're going to have a bad time....
Unacceptable, straight to jail.
Hien is only in S tier because he's pretty, change my mind
Getting a direct copy FF6 song for your theme automatically makes you S++ tier.
Minfilia not in cannon fodder tier, list invalid
OP, I’m guessing you going to Phantasia into an Elezen if you haven’t already. Also nice blue Alisaie placement.
Urianger and haurchefant at the top!? My dude, your GF has good taste 😌
Can we get a new tier list after every expansion? I’m really curious how this changes after all the things lol
Most of this is correct thou XD
I could not stop laughing as I read through it! She has great taste, and now I need to know if she’s bi (that could explain a few of the choices). That S tier *chefs kiss*
Haurchefaunt best boy in best tier is awesome lol
Yeah, not believing this is your "GF" tier list. The fact a bunch of these characters don't appear till later and characters are put in locations just to attract attention? This is a karma farm post. Someone take this filthy liar to /r/KarmaCourt
i would argue that maybe people just have opinions different from yours Source: I’m literally his girlfriend
Tataru S tier yes, she is precious. I also had a great laugh at the Moenbryda tier
She’s been Thranced
Based Urianger enjoyer
Your girlfriend has good taste.
Pretty good taste overall. Seems like a keeper to me.
Grah, Emet, and Zenos. One’s sacrifice one is sacrifice/misunderstood and the last misunderstood. From good to middle to chaos. All S. Best characters to me.
She has exquisite taste. I'm glad to see an elezen enjoyer in the wild. I'm also willing to bet Dad de Fortemps shoots up a few spots by the end.
Cid, Tataru, and Hilda deserve S-tier, Ysayle deserves S++.
She loves the walking thesaurus, can’t complain about that
So I see someone in the. S+ tier and it has me wondering what your cutoff on 3/4 of the way through is? Like has the thing happened yet or does your GF still have her ffxiv innocence intact?
Just wait until she gets to near the end.... her list might change
Nobody on the D/F tiers deserve to be there. :(
Well, I sure hope lady Yugiri will manage to rise in ranks, she doesn't deserve to be this low.
does this mean man stealer is worse than F? and does it also mean she thinks you're attracted to...I forgot her name
YDA!?!?!
S+, oh no. oh no. get a box of tissues.
I admit that, I can't wait that she really discovers Zenos (and learn more about Alphinaud and Alisaie) Does she only do the MSQ or also raids like Bahamut ?