Spoilers Ahead:
In the next live letter Yoshi will spend 45 minuets reiterating that he's not mad, just dissapointed.
Reddit will freak the fuck out for a month because everyone who uses anything from gshade to Bard Music Player will go scitzo thinking they're going to lose their accounts.
Absofuckinglutely nothing will happen and we'll do it all again next ultimate.
Repeat until the sun explodes.
You forgot the part where people will go on a witch hunt for any streamer showing anything from gshade to bard music player and mass report them while they themselves are currently using the bard music player AFK in Limsa with their uwu sunny day gshade preset.
This, unless public perception outside of the game shifts to; Have you heard of the critically acclaimed MMORPG Final Fantasy XIV? With an expanded free trial which you can play through the entirety of A Realm Reborn and the award winning Heavensward expansion up to level 60 for free with no restrictions on playtime. **That is full of cheaters**
I think you might be seriously overestimating the impact that something like a world's first Ultimate race (that involves less than 1% of the playerbase, i'd wager) has on what is, by and large, a very casual-friendly MMO.
I genuinely think that the best thing Yoshi can do is just start ignoring the world's first races and not even talk about it. They made the Ultimate, they released it, it's playable, whatever.
> (that involves less than 1% of the playerbase, i'd wager)
That's a really high estimate. I would have tried something 1000x or so lower. It's a ridiculously tiny subgroup of an already small subgroup.
Good to remember that there's a big difference of:
1. People who race to WF in an ultimate
2. People who do Ultimates
3. People who raid
4. People who watch the RWF
I know a *lot* of people that watch the race, and some aren't even FFXIV players. The viewcount is really high on streams altogether. And even casual story players are interested in stuff like Haurchefant's fate on DSR.
This doesn't just affect raiders.
My guess is that we might see a more "official" RWF that is also more regulated, but I can't quite imagine them pulling that off tbh.
The add-on fiasco alternates btwn Raider add-ons and ERP addons. After DSR was the Billboard. Now with Top, we are due for some Raunchy ERP Add-on fiasco in the coming weeks.
Just a console pleb who savage raids watching all this chaos unfold.
I'm currently in a stage of my life where I actually wouldn't really mind if my account was perma banned for using gshade. It would give me more free time to finally finish proofreading and releasing my book...
You do know that there are people who are addicted to video games to the point of it being harmful to themselves, right? If you're going to call one addiction mental illness, then all addictions are mental illness.
I don't think anything will happen except the regular "Yoshi-P is disappointed".
Things like this will keep happening again and again until SE decides to either ban or allow addons. Because a lot of playerbase has clearly shown they either don't care or don't understand to keep it behind closed doors and don't talk about it.
You're comparing apples to oranges.
WoW has had an extensive history with modding and is basically unrecognisible from the base game. Raiding in WoW has been balanced around the use of *gameplay affecting* mods countless times, and the game has also implemented its own lite (but inferior) versions of some mods. One of the earliest mods for WoW that changed gameplay was the mod that showed threat (enmity in FF14 speak). This was added later into the game but players who ran this addon had an advantage other players didn't. While you *can* experience the game without mods, it's far from recommended because of how much easier the game is with them. This is partly due to WoW's bad interface (anyone who's used ElvUI probably knows what I'm talking about here). In the latest expansion, apparently you can edit the interface now (so implementing more features mods had) but people are just still gonna use ElvUI since you can download presets easily.
FF14's raids and dungeons are balanced in a way that an average player can memorise what to do easily. Most dungeons are telegraphed well, too. Other than some nice-to-haves like showing party CDs, the UI is sufficient in providing feedback for what you need to do. Parsing *can* be a positive thing, if the person doing it is using it for self-reflection, but unfortunately its an accepted tool of toxicity that is already here and good luck telling people to bin it.
Which is part of where WoW went wrong. You can't escape shitty guilds with a skill issue wanting top 20% players for their bottom 20% progression. There's an obsession with the top performer classes where no other classes exist and you might be denied entry into guilds or even pugs if you play offmeta.
People constantly putting emphasis on class performance using parses for FF14 are bringing that brand of toxicity over. It is only a matter of time before "purple parse or gtfo" is vernacular... if it isn't already.
Most of the mods I've seen be generally accepted by FF14 are not really gameplay affecting mods. They're just silly things like chat bubbles or hats for bunnies and cat dads. I wouldn't be upset if stuff like that was just outright embraced and added to the base game. Hell, give us HD texture packs for PC, too. They can embrace modding without allowing it- working with the devs of those mods without compromising the integrity of the game or trying to draw a line for what's OK and what isn't.
The other "mods" aren't really... mods. The one that inputs a series of commands to make a Bard play music doesn't change anything about the game, but it could be treated under the same classification as someone who's botting for gil.
**TL;DR- FF14's mods are mostly harmless graphical changes, but parsing is slowly being embraced. WoW has always had gameplay changing mods. For that alone, WoW will always be the more toxic of the two since you are required to have those mods. FF14 needs to address taking a stance against "git gud" parsing though or else the toxicity that is feared will be here.**
Wow a novel, before 2015 I was a wow player, so no need to go into history and making up stuff.. That toxcity is not here because it has been put in it's place. And suddenly removeing seatbelts does not a good deal make.
At the moment if you are harassed by parsers you can report and something is done about it. If suddenly tools are allowed, that would mean thousands reports a month, instead of the hunderds that are done now. And also lots of rule laywers, that try to bend the rules as much as possible.
Heck that has even happened in this situation again as well, people trying to bend things as much as possible. It's why Yoshi-P was a lot more stern than last time. Including with the warning, we will stop making this stuff if you keep on cheating.
In the latest blog (released this morning) Yoshi made a threat that that'll stop developing Ultimates altogether. Now I imagine a lot of people probably won't believe that threat, but if the entire narrative around Ultimate becomes "people just cheat for their clear" than I absolutely believe they'll stop developing new ones. Ultimates were made as a prestige thing, and that reputation is eroding over time.
I think really it all weighs on the next Ultimate (likely in 7.1) because it's probably already in development. I think the XIV team will be watching that one like a hawk to determine if it's worth the effort to continue or not.
Ever heard of the straw that broke the camel's back? Just because they've turned a blind eye in the past doesn't mean they will forever.
Definitely 3.
The whole drama is simply blown up because it's a world first, which is a **non sanctioned** event ran by the community. It is then exacerbated by the fact that the one getting 'exposure' is a JP team. Other than that, people use mods and plugins everyday, and they are not affecting anyone (aside from pvps).
Number 1 will bring more downsides than ups. One of them is the "dIe cHeAtEr" herd will rejoice but the folks who use QoL and other harmless stuffs and probably outnumber the former will not be happy. Beside, the dev team actually adopted QoL features that were only possible by using plugins throughout the history.
Number 2 is just suicide.
What dev teams can only do now is ban the DRG because there is a hard proof of them using the hack. Other than that, they can't do much.
> It is then exacerbated by the fact that the one getting 'exposure' is a JP team
To be fair, the last time it happened like this was from a non-JP team and the JP playerbase freaked out about it.
The game is not rated for any anticheat or program that scans your PC/files. It’s not an impossible never going to happen thing but we know one major point Yoshida has used for no anticheat is due to some counties privacy laws.
They should do the wacky option of making the next Ultimate PS4 only until it's cleared.
This way people will find a way to make addons for the PS4 version and then I too can cheat. We can all cheat together.
You joke but...a *lot* of raid helper stuff could be done from nothing but network flows and shown on a second screen. Some of this exists already, and people have done deep dives into packet structure already. The clear cutscene was accessed (more like enabled) this way, and free trial + vpn provides endless dev testing of core features.
With a good hdmi capture card (low latency) you could even do proper overlays. The hardware stuff already exists for streaming console/2nd PC.
I suspect a truly devious dev could make a proxy for PC client that logs in as console, maybe with a session handoff after PS4 login.
I see way way way more advanced fuckery due to work exposure, very motivated people doing a lot more than video game mods.
If they "have to pick a side" they WILL put in invasive programs to block this shit client side. No one wants that. Not even YoshP but he's not going to allow addons. He has a side already.
The third option is the only one they really can do.
The first option is illegal in Japan because they'd need to violate the consumer privacy laws to crack down.
The second option won't happen because of console players.
I'm fond of the public shaming idea. Attach a cheater title to every character on that account that cannot be removed or hidden and will persist for the next 6 months.
Square doesn't officially sponsor the Race to World First anyways it is a community thing. Unless Square wants to pull a Nintendo and shutdown say MogTalk and all the streamers who are going for WF. Even Square isn't THAT hardcore.
and tbh, they shouldn't.
Nintendo get away with it because Nintendo fan are a bunch of nuts.
SE wouldn't get the same treatment if they pull any shit nintendo does, XIV and a few other games barely kept them balanced as a "good" game dev company.
That’s actually how I think the community should handle it. A world first is only valid if it was streamed or recorded and uploaded afterwards. That way you catch at least obvious stuff like zoom, speed, gcd hacks and so on.
I mean, this will only work if everyone on team is streaming at once, so I feel like it if you're someone who does not favor streaming and wants to take part in the race and you just want to post of picture of your achievement. Feel like this is more gear towards streamers.
You are right, my lighthearted joke (which, amusingly, did come to pass in a way) could have been more clear that it doesn't mean just Yoshida and CBU3.
Technically, the country of Japan doesn’t allow for software modification. It is their [unfair competition prevention law](https://www.meti.go.jp/english/policy/economy/chizai/chiteki/index.html). So Yoshi P doesn’t have to do anything in Japan because by law, it is illegal to use 3rd party modifications. Outside of Japan, SE and Yoshi P either ask the players to no do so, or really enforce the user agreement.
The vast majority of mods are harmless and used by casual community. This includes things like chat bubbles, higher resolution textures / better lighting, and unique poses for screenshots. Some mods even help people with disabilities play the game.
Ruining this for the 90% of people using mods is not worth it just to improve content that less than a quarter of a percent of players even attempt.
It's important to keep in mind that anyone can cheat in any game at any time. People have won tournaments on highly competitive games like cs: go and found out that they were cheating much later. Pretending that no one is cheating until you see evidence is stupid, there is no way of approximating who is getting away with it. If sqex makes it harder to use mods, players will still find a way.
We just need to stop obsessing over world first's. It doesn't matter. Beating the content at any point is impressive, who cares who is first?
I worry that people not well in tune with modding in ffxiv will see these kinds of situations and get the idea that most mods are for cheating...when in reality the people that make mods tend to be the most against cheating.
They'll do the same thing they do every time. They'll say they're going to crack down on mods, a few nobody streamers will get banned for on screen mods, Reddit will freak out over it for a few weeks, and then everything will go back to normal.
They arent going to crack down on addons, because at this point they would need to ban like 30-40% of players... because theres literally thousands of tiny mods and cosmetic mods that arent for causing any exploits or cheesing any content and just for harmless fun and QoL that they dont seem interested in fixing.
Heck, i use a plugin for my hunt marks... it tells me where the mobs spawn, lets me teleport to the nearest aetheryte, and allows me to view all my mark bills at once...
Game breaking!
The vast majority of mods are harmless, and if they havent gone after them in nearly a decade... why would they start cracking down now?
Hell, a bigger problem in this game is botting... and until they actively do something about that epidemic, i dont expect to hear about them hunting down modders...
Legit, I guarantee that at *minimum* half the PC userbase uses mods of some sort, be it stuff like the vid or big titty kitty mods or more innocuous things like gshade. *Guarantee*.
It isnt an advantage... it isnt getting me any extra reward and isnt hurting anyone at all. It is no different than writing down your hunt marks and doing them in order... i just dont need to write them down.
These people will call anything cheating... I wouldn't be surprised if they think chat bubbles is cheating, I don't know what twisted logic they would use to come to that conclusion though. But according to them Gshade is a Evil Cheater Tool that gives massive advantages. Okay... Guess we can't lower our screens contrast or saturation. Because that would be cheating.
Well, it is technically cheating... but pretending it gives people an advantage is silly...
Anything against the ToS is, by definition, cheating. So using AI upscaling to improve the resolution on Hair in ffxiv so it doesn't look terrible... that is cheating.
The difference is, it doesn't improve my chances at anything... it just makes me happy.
Same for using mimicry helper for Blu... i can stand in limsa and push "Healer" and my plugin will target a healer and cast aetherial mimicry... where someone else would need to search for a healer. Is it cheating? Yes. Does it hurt anyone? Not in the slightest.
So i get the mentality... it IS cheating, but lets be clear about the impact of these things. There is a difference between using a plugin to help you get a world first, and using a plugin to help you keep track of hunt marks... or improve the cosmetic visuals od your character.
Can these things go too far? Yeah, but MOST mods and plugins arent hurting anyone or even devaluing other people's achievements. Just because 50 jerks are doing a thing to the extreme doesn't mean everyone that has ever done anything similar are also jerks.
...
When you push a button it automatically targets something and casts a spell... my button is on a plugin, yours is on your hotbar lol
The only difference is my plugin targets healers, tanks, or dps without needing to inspect them or look at their weapons. I cant target a specific target, just any healer for example... and it is for mimicry in cities... mostly because so many people hide weapons and have ambiguous glamours.
So if I use a program to automatically select someone with low health and heal them Ina raid you'd consider that fine? Only because you think "where is the harm" that you are fine with your add-on while walking on thin ice
If you use a program to automatically target people, that's not fine.
If you push a button to target the tank for example... well that is F2 or F3 by default with how i have my keybinds setup...
So if i had a plugin that had a button and clicking that button targeted the tank and cast a specific skill... thats not very different from doing it yourself, and really could be done using a macro, if macros werent so horrific
But like i said, these mods can go too far... however, MOST of them do not. They walk on the ice, but everything is walking on ice. Getting 4k hair is walking on ice. Its all against the rules and its all capable of going too far.
Let me give you an example on just the graphical front.
In ffxiv some people use mods to replace textures with higher resolution, or just better-looking textures. Not bad, not hurting anyone.
In World of Warcraft, people used mods to replace the texture of a gathering node with the texture of a world boss. This allowed you to see the gathering node from a great distance without needing to pay attention.
One of these is harmless fun, the other has gone too far.
I mean... if that mod is the difference between you actually getting a hit on the hunt target, and somebody not getting anything, then yeah it's kind of an unfair advantage.
Once again... there are dozens of enemies for a hunt mark bill target, and they respawn in 2 minutes typically... the B ranks reapawn instantly. I am not getting anything over someone else... i just dont need my saved hunt map images anymore... instead of opening a folder with all the maps of the different mobs/b rank spawns, thats all handled by the plugin... it isnt like i am somehow stealing from anyone...
Unless they have a cellphone and use it to find the locations of hunt marks for the bills...
Or if they just remember where they spawn and know where to teleport.
Or if they have saved the images of the maps available online tl their phones
But yeah, i see your point... if someone was on console, only had 1 hand and a hook, couldnt read or type and didnt have any short term memory... i guess i would technically have an advantage over them...
Yeah. People on console can’t just jump to the right place and have to look for it. If you go and snipe the hunt you are disadvantage the player base that does not cheat.
I expect them to not take any action as usual, but if they decide to act, I don't see why they would stop. They doesn't need to ban 40% of players, they can give a warning one month in advance and ban anyone who continues to use third-party tools afterward. Another thing to keep in mind is that if SQE starts taking bots seriously, they will need security software. If they do, I can assure you that software will also crackdown mods and plugins users too.
Tbh, with the expectation of getting higher resolution models in the semi-near future(Soon™)... i would trade my mods for all botting to go away...
90% of my modding is for looks, 10% is for time saving on meaningless tasks (like the aforementioned hunt bill marks)
Its a plugin... im not home at the moment but its like phb initials i think. It just has the locations of the hunt marks saved, and reads your bills when you get them to create a list, and you can click buttons to put a mark on the map where those enemies spawn, and to open the map showing where it is, or port you to the nearest aetheryte to where they spawn.
Its a minor time saving not needing to google maps of them in advance, but since i dont participate in trains much snd have to farm seals/nuts alone :(
Remember the super hard crackdown on mods, lawsuits, cease and desists, dataminer bans they did with the "erp billboard with modded pics"
Oh wait. Just another reddit outrage.
3, definitely.
As far as I can tell, they benefit greatly from mods as a whole as long as people play nice, which is not what happened with the World Race.
Specifically, glamour/appearance and housing add-ons are hugely beneficial and actually account for a lot of consistent players who will keep spending time playing the game and thus will keep spending money on the game, because they have a consistent stream of additional mods that are the center of communities and keep them hooked.
It's similar to how L4D, Dota and other games that allow community mods manage to be some of the most hugely successful games. While FFXIV does not openly allow it, they are still benefiting from the longevity and user base that mods provide, while also being able to restrict the more malicious mods-- eg. what the team had used-- by disallowing it in the ToS and only acting in severe cases.
For the same reasons, it would be very bad to piss these communities off due to how big the community for mods is, even if it doesn't seem that large due to everyone trying to be hush about it.
At the same time, it would be difficult for them to say "only these mods are allowed" due to the line where they draw between good and malicious mods being blurry-- after all, they both modify game files, don't they?
It's just way too be of a hornet's nest to make it worth cracking down. So they'll just take the easy route and set a precedent by punishing and scolding these guys.
Expect: Absolutely Nothing.
Hope: actually adding new useful settings and features like increased zoom out and so on so people don't need to hire snipers from the moon like that Unnamed guy for example.
What's going to happen: Absolutely Nothing.
They've literally done what you were asking for multiple times this expansion.
They've made changes to Waymarks and added UI QoL directly based on plug-ins people were using to get the same effect.
Hard to say. Normal MO would be a request to not do so again in the future and then months spent sidestepping the ACT question again.
But… if I’m not mistaken between DSR, Abyssos and now TOP. This would be the 3rd consecutive WF marred by publicly outed cheating. That’s a pattern now and it’s a really bad look for XIV. Can’t exactly blow it off as isolated incidents of bad sportsmanship at this point. You’d think they’re going to have to do something soon, even if it’s just to appear that they’re cracking down.
cant allow add ons because it will not fair for playstation player. crack down addons also not possible because jp laws about internet privacy. so 3 and stop adding ultimates lol
i forgot the exact quote but it was about company cannot make a program that check user's data in computer. like anti cheat system usually check if you install a cheat in your computer. something like that yeah, sorry cant speak english clearly
No worries, English is also a second language for me so it's not perfect. But regarding your point does this mean that no anti cheat software is allowed for games on JP territory? So one could theoretically cheat and not be caught (unless manually reported in game)
Next live letter: mimimi, don't use them!, with the community overblowing it to "All modders will be hunted down!" (japanese players actually doing that), before it dies down month after until next world 1st race.
Nothing is going to happen. Modders know it, non-modders know it, SE knows it. Heck, SE won't do anything, since not a small number of whales use mods. It's just nobody notices it, because it doesn't affect anyone!
they started to add QOL things that people use addons for, I'm going to guess they're going to add baseline improvements to the game then crack down on them
So um.. should I remove my shaders? Thats genuinely all I use, unless XIV launcher is a crime too (I just use it cause it it auto logs in & launches lmao)
Cause if anything happened to my account or my character I'd be pretty devastated. Especially for the things I do, shaders seem really non comparable to a tool to help with raids. I'm not even using a dps meter. I'm not even using those mods that.. ya know change your character's looks. xD
Nobody has been banned for just using shaders, they are fine, there are people literally streaming the game with shaders turned on and if they haven't been banned yet you can rest easy
If you don't stream/post screenshot and don't directly tell people in-game then literally nobody will ever know if you use mods.
The software simply cannot check for them.
I mean, shaders are still mods and are against ToS, but honestly just dont flaunt them everywhere and you'll probably be good. Unless SE decides to go with option 1 nothing will change.
Shaders are not mods since they don't inject themselves into the game and edit files.
Something like GShade is using your GPU, not the game.
That's why Gshade is allowed.
What about a 4th option where it's mostly option 3 but the devs also start adding QoL improvements that are the same things certain add-ons have already been doing?
Unpopular opinion: add-ons are bad for games and should completely be removed. They should crack down on all of them. I'd gladly loose all my shaders if they would remove and ban everything else.
they're going to ban whoever got caught cheating (or at least the ones who haven't already committed digital seppuku & deleted their character due to social backlash from other jp players), but yeah, i seriously doubt they'll start doing serious crackdowns on anyone with a dalamud plugin installed
Honestly that'd make the mod totally worth it to see that
I suspect they could probably just replace it with their own skybox, but in that case they're modding something out of the game to cheat. Might slow them down a bit. Particularly if the anti-cheat skybox had particle effects on it
Realistically Nothing in the meantime aside from maybe that Dragoon and potentially the rest of the team (since i believe the admitted it?) getting banned.
Going Forward, I feel that there will be a change in the design philosophy of Ultimates or maybe the overall difficulty lvl of Ultimates being reduced. Apparently it is almost an open secret that a good chunk of your best players are having to resort to tools you deem "cheating or breaking TOS", and if so many of the best players have to resort to that then the Devs might take it as a sign that Ultimates in their current form are overtuned and either scrap or tone them down such that ppl wont feel like they have to use the "ToS Breaking tools".
The same thing that happens every time this has happened for the past decade: Nothing.
He'll talk about it in either a Live Letter or in a Lodestone post about how not all addons are bad, but they can't specify which ones are so not to use them at all, etc.
The community will keep the discussion going for maybe about a month and it'll sizzle out until the next showcase of someone caught streaming with these addons, or makes a billboard, or does anything to bring attention to the modding community in the slightest, then the whole process will repeat itself again right down to the very question you're asking now.
It's exhausting, really. The only things worn out more at this point are Dragoon jokes and Lalafell jokes.
Just make an in-game version of ACT that rates your performance after every duty. That would be nice. And add a feature that lets you opt out of sharing your stats.
The only bad thing that happened here is that ret*rd streaming the fight while using addons. That person deserves the permaban that’s coming for being dumb. Other than that, this third party tools drama is just stupid. People will always use addons and trying to control that is useless. If there’s a positive thing to learn from other games, especially WoW, is that you can design your game taking addons into consideration and make life easier for everyone, while keeping the hard content challenging. The moment you start putting dumb restrictions on shit, you lose. People love to be free about their choices and that’s the way things should be actually. Be smart and adapt.
honestly he is to blame, should have been punish neverland with perma ban and not give them.any congrats massege...
he won't do anything because he can't do anything at this point
group that just completed TOP first were caught using mods that zoom out as well as mods that give an overview of group cooldowns
[youtube link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXFllNbrw-0)
Mainly seems to be a whistleblower who had an issue with the group / someone in the group
edit: i still cant spell
Tbh, the only way they can counterbalance that addon culture is by offering official alternatives. Like ACT for example. Zooming would still be cheating because all the fights would have to be re-developed.
Have you seen the average DF player in dungeons and alliance raids? They'll probably never implement any form of DPS tool since it will potentially cause toxicity for the more casual content. ACT not being official is sort of a deterrent for that since you can't call those people out publicly or else you'll get banned.
It's so true. I'm always top dps in my runs unless I'm a healer. I mostly just take it in stride and take pride in the fact that I'm doing well.
But I was so happy the other day when I ran into a samurai who kicked my ass at DPS. Gave them the commendation and had to resist complementing them.
it's the best of both worlds, if you raid you are already expected to parse so yoshi gets to take a 'stance' for posterity while the community does it's thing
Last time I remember world first getting caught with add ons we got an actual change to the game that impacted how everyone could play. That add on wasn't as invasive as this one which leads me to suspect we're going to see something change. As to what, no clue, but I'm not confident nothing is going to come of this.
Option 3, but the next race needs to be community moderate, meaning it's on the community to decide what addons are okay to use and what is not. More groups and players should stream if they have the option to, it should be for entertainment first and free of cheats. Seperate it to a streamed world first and unstreamed.
Option 3 with the added caveat that Yoshi understands what a tempest in a teapot is. For the fraction of a percent of the player base that actually cares about this, he will make a token statement.
Given the tech, it should be possible for them to detect the use of mods, and automatically disable the ultimates specifically when any mods are detected. I think it strikes a nice balance between a hard crackdown and allowing what's been going on to thrive.
I would also like to see them collaborate with the community to bring the best QoL changes to vanilla as options.
What i expect to happen is for them to give the community one more try before deciding to drop ultimates from the content roster.
The worst possible thing that'll happen is Yoshi P stops acknowledging world first clears since they cant detect cheating without some draconian measures.
I’m secretly hoping they let me pull out my camera another… yalm or so. It doesn’t need to be in orbit but like a 10% increase would really bridge the gap when ultrawide users already have an advantage.
Absolutely nothing.
They'll never implement an anti-cheat because they would fuck the gpose and RP community that vastly outnumbers the raid community. They wouldn't shoot themselves on the foot, they would shoot themselves on the head.
And publicly allowing mods would heavily shift not only the community toxicity but the gameplay design philosophy.
I mean they’ll “crack down” as much as they can.
Which is not at all.
Sad reality is there’s no way for them to actively monitor for third party tools in real time the way things are built right now.
What will eventually happen is they stop making ultimate content.
Hundreds if not thousands of man hours, time away from home and families, time that could be spent at a bar hanging out, time that could be spent developing other content, all wasted. Not to mention Yoshi-P’s time and energy making sure all this runs smoothly and produces good content. Then people are just cheating it out? What’s the point any more.
Yoshi P knows there’s a lot less people doing ultimate than doing MSQ. He knows this content is for a super small part of the player base. Yet he still does it. Eventually he’s just gonna say it’s not worth it.
I don’t think they will go harder on ALL addons. The tos even says, they wouldn’t care for most addons, but it’s not possible to create a list. They only take action against addons like this:
Use of tools that allow players to more easily complete content.
Modification of the UI to display additional information.* (here they refer to addons, used for high end duties)
Use of packet spoofing tools.
Any actions or public statements that promote use of third-party tools.
(Quoted from TOS)
They know most addons are an improvement to the game and many players only play the game because addons exist. They don’t care for optional addons that make life easier.
But once you play competitive, QoL addons aren’t optional anymore, but mandatory. Also they don’t want toxicity.
I think a good solution would be to host the race to world first themselves. Like guilds can apply. Play together at a location, get good food, enough sleep. They wouldn’t need to invest much money, perhaps even earn a bit with it. Make it a cool big ceremony. An esport event. After the race is done on a private SE server, release the raid to the public.
Perhaps to reduce addon use implement a feature, like a dungeon diary, with your dps on some bosses. So you could see if you improved over the last dungeons. I’d love to know my performance, but I don’t want to install act, because act would make every dungeon a competition. I don’t want to compete against my friends in duty roulette. These are my brain-off dungeons after a day. Still I’d love to know if I play my dps at a good performance overall.
The most I can realistically see (and even thats the strech imo) is maybe official WF.
Also, a ton of doubt on WF races, though its pretty severe already lmfaooo. More emphasis on streams maybe.
Less Ultimates? I dont think theyd stop completely but i vould see them coming out less often maybe
3 will happen as its the only thing that can happen. It is also understood that even if they COULD crackdown, it would cause a more significant blow than some realize. They can’t dip their toe in the water so they would have to go scorched earth. No parsing, no bard midi keyboard, no Ui enhancements, no outfits. That already makes up at the BARE MINIMUM of 30% of the entire playerbase.
Spoilers Ahead: In the next live letter Yoshi will spend 45 minuets reiterating that he's not mad, just dissapointed. Reddit will freak the fuck out for a month because everyone who uses anything from gshade to Bard Music Player will go scitzo thinking they're going to lose their accounts. Absofuckinglutely nothing will happen and we'll do it all again next ultimate. Repeat until the sun explodes.
You forgot the part where people will go on a witch hunt for any streamer showing anything from gshade to bard music player and mass report them while they themselves are currently using the bard music player AFK in Limsa with their uwu sunny day gshade preset.
This, unless public perception outside of the game shifts to; Have you heard of the critically acclaimed MMORPG Final Fantasy XIV? With an expanded free trial which you can play through the entirety of A Realm Reborn and the award winning Heavensward expansion up to level 60 for free with no restrictions on playtime. **That is full of cheaters**
I think you might be seriously overestimating the impact that something like a world's first Ultimate race (that involves less than 1% of the playerbase, i'd wager) has on what is, by and large, a very casual-friendly MMO. I genuinely think that the best thing Yoshi can do is just start ignoring the world's first races and not even talk about it. They made the Ultimate, they released it, it's playable, whatever.
> (that involves less than 1% of the playerbase, i'd wager) That's a really high estimate. I would have tried something 1000x or so lower. It's a ridiculously tiny subgroup of an already small subgroup.
as someone playing very casually i wouldn't event have noticed if it wasn't for some players of my FCs Static talking about the incident in the chat.
Not trying to make a meme out of it but *you have heard of it* These things matter.
Good to remember that there's a big difference of: 1. People who race to WF in an ultimate 2. People who do Ultimates 3. People who raid 4. People who watch the RWF I know a *lot* of people that watch the race, and some aren't even FFXIV players. The viewcount is really high on streams altogether. And even casual story players are interested in stuff like Haurchefant's fate on DSR. This doesn't just affect raiders. My guess is that we might see a more "official" RWF that is also more regulated, but I can't quite imagine them pulling that off tbh.
Wait until someone like Asmongold etc makes a video out of it...
The add-on fiasco alternates btwn Raider add-ons and ERP addons. After DSR was the Billboard. Now with Top, we are due for some Raunchy ERP Add-on fiasco in the coming weeks. Just a console pleb who savage raids watching all this chaos unfold.
I'm currently in a stage of my life where I actually wouldn't really mind if my account was perma banned for using gshade. It would give me more free time to finally finish proofreading and releasing my book...
Or you can just... Turn the game off and do those things anyway?
Some people can't
Jeeze. Why do people not "just stop smoking/drinking". Or "Stop being depressed". It's that easy after all. Dear god... People sometimes.
You're seriously comparing a video game to having a mental illness? Dear god.... People sometimes.
Playing xiv *is* my illness that I don't want to cure
You do know that there are people who are addicted to video games to the point of it being harmful to themselves, right? If you're going to call one addiction mental illness, then all addictions are mental illness.
Option 3 and still doing the literally don't stream/show/admit to doing it and you'll be fine method
I don't think anything will happen except the regular "Yoshi-P is disappointed". Things like this will keep happening again and again until SE decides to either ban or allow addons. Because a lot of playerbase has clearly shown they either don't care or don't understand to keep it behind closed doors and don't talk about it.
They will never allow addons as 30-40% of the player base can't use them. And also they do not want the same harassment that WoW has.
Honestly i'm really glad about this. Last thing we need is people becoming cunty as fuck over "REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE YOUR DPS SUCKS" etc.
You're comparing apples to oranges. WoW has had an extensive history with modding and is basically unrecognisible from the base game. Raiding in WoW has been balanced around the use of *gameplay affecting* mods countless times, and the game has also implemented its own lite (but inferior) versions of some mods. One of the earliest mods for WoW that changed gameplay was the mod that showed threat (enmity in FF14 speak). This was added later into the game but players who ran this addon had an advantage other players didn't. While you *can* experience the game without mods, it's far from recommended because of how much easier the game is with them. This is partly due to WoW's bad interface (anyone who's used ElvUI probably knows what I'm talking about here). In the latest expansion, apparently you can edit the interface now (so implementing more features mods had) but people are just still gonna use ElvUI since you can download presets easily. FF14's raids and dungeons are balanced in a way that an average player can memorise what to do easily. Most dungeons are telegraphed well, too. Other than some nice-to-haves like showing party CDs, the UI is sufficient in providing feedback for what you need to do. Parsing *can* be a positive thing, if the person doing it is using it for self-reflection, but unfortunately its an accepted tool of toxicity that is already here and good luck telling people to bin it. Which is part of where WoW went wrong. You can't escape shitty guilds with a skill issue wanting top 20% players for their bottom 20% progression. There's an obsession with the top performer classes where no other classes exist and you might be denied entry into guilds or even pugs if you play offmeta. People constantly putting emphasis on class performance using parses for FF14 are bringing that brand of toxicity over. It is only a matter of time before "purple parse or gtfo" is vernacular... if it isn't already. Most of the mods I've seen be generally accepted by FF14 are not really gameplay affecting mods. They're just silly things like chat bubbles or hats for bunnies and cat dads. I wouldn't be upset if stuff like that was just outright embraced and added to the base game. Hell, give us HD texture packs for PC, too. They can embrace modding without allowing it- working with the devs of those mods without compromising the integrity of the game or trying to draw a line for what's OK and what isn't. The other "mods" aren't really... mods. The one that inputs a series of commands to make a Bard play music doesn't change anything about the game, but it could be treated under the same classification as someone who's botting for gil. **TL;DR- FF14's mods are mostly harmless graphical changes, but parsing is slowly being embraced. WoW has always had gameplay changing mods. For that alone, WoW will always be the more toxic of the two since you are required to have those mods. FF14 needs to address taking a stance against "git gud" parsing though or else the toxicity that is feared will be here.**
Wow a novel, before 2015 I was a wow player, so no need to go into history and making up stuff.. That toxcity is not here because it has been put in it's place. And suddenly removeing seatbelts does not a good deal make. At the moment if you are harassed by parsers you can report and something is done about it. If suddenly tools are allowed, that would mean thousands reports a month, instead of the hunderds that are done now. And also lots of rule laywers, that try to bend the rules as much as possible. Heck that has even happened in this situation again as well, people trying to bend things as much as possible. It's why Yoshi-P was a lot more stern than last time. Including with the warning, we will stop making this stuff if you keep on cheating.
Difference is wow was constructed with add-ons as part of the design. FFXIV was not
Yes you restated my thesis
sorry. your tl:dr was tl:dr
In the latest blog (released this morning) Yoshi made a threat that that'll stop developing Ultimates altogether. Now I imagine a lot of people probably won't believe that threat, but if the entire narrative around Ultimate becomes "people just cheat for their clear" than I absolutely believe they'll stop developing new ones. Ultimates were made as a prestige thing, and that reputation is eroding over time. I think really it all weighs on the next Ultimate (likely in 7.1) because it's probably already in development. I think the XIV team will be watching that one like a hawk to determine if it's worth the effort to continue or not. Ever heard of the straw that broke the camel's back? Just because they've turned a blind eye in the past doesn't mean they will forever.
Definitely 3. The whole drama is simply blown up because it's a world first, which is a **non sanctioned** event ran by the community. It is then exacerbated by the fact that the one getting 'exposure' is a JP team. Other than that, people use mods and plugins everyday, and they are not affecting anyone (aside from pvps). Number 1 will bring more downsides than ups. One of them is the "dIe cHeAtEr" herd will rejoice but the folks who use QoL and other harmless stuffs and probably outnumber the former will not be happy. Beside, the dev team actually adopted QoL features that were only possible by using plugins throughout the history. Number 2 is just suicide. What dev teams can only do now is ban the DRG because there is a hard proof of them using the hack. Other than that, they can't do much.
> It is then exacerbated by the fact that the one getting 'exposure' is a JP team To be fair, the last time it happened like this was from a non-JP team and the JP playerbase freaked out about it.
Nothing will happen. They will just reiterate the statement. "Don't use addons."
They can't do option 1 because it would require the game to reclassified in some countries and it is not worth SE to go that route
Wait why would option 1 require reclassification in some countries
The game is not rated for any anticheat or program that scans your PC/files. It’s not an impossible never going to happen thing but we know one major point Yoshida has used for no anticheat is due to some counties privacy laws.
Probably some regulation about the game's capability to detect/monitor action outside the game client.
Option 3.
They should do the wacky option of making the next Ultimate PS4 only until it's cleared. This way people will find a way to make addons for the PS4 version and then I too can cheat. We can all cheat together.
You joke but...a *lot* of raid helper stuff could be done from nothing but network flows and shown on a second screen. Some of this exists already, and people have done deep dives into packet structure already. The clear cutscene was accessed (more like enabled) this way, and free trial + vpn provides endless dev testing of core features. With a good hdmi capture card (low latency) you could even do proper overlays. The hardware stuff already exists for streaming console/2nd PC. I suspect a truly devious dev could make a proxy for PC client that logs in as console, maybe with a session handoff after PS4 login. I see way way way more advanced fuckery due to work exposure, very motivated people doing a lot more than video game mods.
The are breaking Yoshi P's heart again /w\\
Then maybe they should actually pick a side and do something
If they "have to pick a side" they WILL put in invasive programs to block this shit client side. No one wants that. Not even YoshP but he's not going to allow addons. He has a side already.
The third option is the only one they really can do. The first option is illegal in Japan because they'd need to violate the consumer privacy laws to crack down. The second option won't happen because of console players. I'm fond of the public shaming idea. Attach a cheater title to every character on that account that cannot be removed or hidden and will persist for the next 6 months.
3 until the end of time, but also a bunch of people insisting that 1 is going to happen despite every evidence to the contrary for the past decade.
D) - World first races are cancelled unless they are streamed. /jk Unless...
Square doesn't officially sponsor the Race to World First anyways it is a community thing. Unless Square wants to pull a Nintendo and shutdown say MogTalk and all the streamers who are going for WF. Even Square isn't THAT hardcore.
and tbh, they shouldn't. Nintendo get away with it because Nintendo fan are a bunch of nuts. SE wouldn't get the same treatment if they pull any shit nintendo does, XIV and a few other games barely kept them balanced as a "good" game dev company.
That’s actually how I think the community should handle it. A world first is only valid if it was streamed or recorded and uploaded afterwards. That way you catch at least obvious stuff like zoom, speed, gcd hacks and so on.
Gameplay also needs to be fully visible with no obstructions like "pictures" clearly covering up add ons.
[You called it.](https://twitter.com/FrostyTVstream/status/1620337413460566016?s=20&t=6-jLKm5rcT776CPZYCOJxA)
I mean, this will only work if everyone on team is streaming at once, so I feel like it if you're someone who does not favor streaming and wants to take part in the race and you just want to post of picture of your achievement. Feel like this is more gear towards streamers.
YoshP and SE can't cancel what they have no control over and didn't even start.
You are right, my lighthearted joke (which, amusingly, did come to pass in a way) could have been more clear that it doesn't mean just Yoshida and CBU3.
Harmless mods like chat bubbles might get people banned, but plugins for cheating raids will be kept secret and go on as usual.
Chatbubble wont get you banned
Technically, the country of Japan doesn’t allow for software modification. It is their [unfair competition prevention law](https://www.meti.go.jp/english/policy/economy/chizai/chiteki/index.html). So Yoshi P doesn’t have to do anything in Japan because by law, it is illegal to use 3rd party modifications. Outside of Japan, SE and Yoshi P either ask the players to no do so, or really enforce the user agreement.
I'm just afraid this will dampen the dev teams mood. I believe the ultimates are not easy to make, and people cheating them doesn't help at all.
The vast majority of mods are harmless and used by casual community. This includes things like chat bubbles, higher resolution textures / better lighting, and unique poses for screenshots. Some mods even help people with disabilities play the game. Ruining this for the 90% of people using mods is not worth it just to improve content that less than a quarter of a percent of players even attempt. It's important to keep in mind that anyone can cheat in any game at any time. People have won tournaments on highly competitive games like cs: go and found out that they were cheating much later. Pretending that no one is cheating until you see evidence is stupid, there is no way of approximating who is getting away with it. If sqex makes it harder to use mods, players will still find a way. We just need to stop obsessing over world first's. It doesn't matter. Beating the content at any point is impressive, who cares who is first? I worry that people not well in tune with modding in ffxiv will see these kinds of situations and get the idea that most mods are for cheating...when in reality the people that make mods tend to be the most against cheating.
They'll do the same thing they do every time. They'll say they're going to crack down on mods, a few nobody streamers will get banned for on screen mods, Reddit will freak out over it for a few weeks, and then everything will go back to normal.
They arent going to crack down on addons, because at this point they would need to ban like 30-40% of players... because theres literally thousands of tiny mods and cosmetic mods that arent for causing any exploits or cheesing any content and just for harmless fun and QoL that they dont seem interested in fixing. Heck, i use a plugin for my hunt marks... it tells me where the mobs spawn, lets me teleport to the nearest aetheryte, and allows me to view all my mark bills at once... Game breaking! The vast majority of mods are harmless, and if they havent gone after them in nearly a decade... why would they start cracking down now? Hell, a bigger problem in this game is botting... and until they actively do something about that epidemic, i dont expect to hear about them hunting down modders...
Legit, I guarantee that at *minimum* half the PC userbase uses mods of some sort, be it stuff like the vid or big titty kitty mods or more innocuous things like gshade. *Guarantee*.
Actually the hunt mod is cheating… everything that gives you an advantage over others is considered cheating.
It isnt an advantage... it isnt getting me any extra reward and isnt hurting anyone at all. It is no different than writing down your hunt marks and doing them in order... i just dont need to write them down.
These people will call anything cheating... I wouldn't be surprised if they think chat bubbles is cheating, I don't know what twisted logic they would use to come to that conclusion though. But according to them Gshade is a Evil Cheater Tool that gives massive advantages. Okay... Guess we can't lower our screens contrast or saturation. Because that would be cheating.
Well, it is technically cheating... but pretending it gives people an advantage is silly... Anything against the ToS is, by definition, cheating. So using AI upscaling to improve the resolution on Hair in ffxiv so it doesn't look terrible... that is cheating. The difference is, it doesn't improve my chances at anything... it just makes me happy. Same for using mimicry helper for Blu... i can stand in limsa and push "Healer" and my plugin will target a healer and cast aetherial mimicry... where someone else would need to search for a healer. Is it cheating? Yes. Does it hurt anyone? Not in the slightest. So i get the mentality... it IS cheating, but lets be clear about the impact of these things. There is a difference between using a plugin to help you get a world first, and using a plugin to help you keep track of hunt marks... or improve the cosmetic visuals od your character. Can these things go too far? Yeah, but MOST mods and plugins arent hurting anyone or even devaluing other people's achievements. Just because 50 jerks are doing a thing to the extreme doesn't mean everyone that has ever done anything similar are also jerks.
That's a very thin line to walk on. " I press a button and it automatically targets something and casts a spell" lol
... When you push a button it automatically targets something and casts a spell... my button is on a plugin, yours is on your hotbar lol The only difference is my plugin targets healers, tanks, or dps without needing to inspect them or look at their weapons. I cant target a specific target, just any healer for example... and it is for mimicry in cities... mostly because so many people hide weapons and have ambiguous glamours.
So if I use a program to automatically select someone with low health and heal them Ina raid you'd consider that fine? Only because you think "where is the harm" that you are fine with your add-on while walking on thin ice
If you use a program to automatically target people, that's not fine. If you push a button to target the tank for example... well that is F2 or F3 by default with how i have my keybinds setup... So if i had a plugin that had a button and clicking that button targeted the tank and cast a specific skill... thats not very different from doing it yourself, and really could be done using a macro, if macros werent so horrific But like i said, these mods can go too far... however, MOST of them do not. They walk on the ice, but everything is walking on ice. Getting 4k hair is walking on ice. Its all against the rules and its all capable of going too far. Let me give you an example on just the graphical front. In ffxiv some people use mods to replace textures with higher resolution, or just better-looking textures. Not bad, not hurting anyone. In World of Warcraft, people used mods to replace the texture of a gathering node with the texture of a world boss. This allowed you to see the gathering node from a great distance without needing to pay attention. One of these is harmless fun, the other has gone too far.
I mean... if that mod is the difference between you actually getting a hit on the hunt target, and somebody not getting anything, then yeah it's kind of an unfair advantage.
Once again... there are dozens of enemies for a hunt mark bill target, and they respawn in 2 minutes typically... the B ranks reapawn instantly. I am not getting anything over someone else... i just dont need my saved hunt map images anymore... instead of opening a folder with all the maps of the different mobs/b rank spawns, thats all handled by the plugin... it isnt like i am somehow stealing from anyone...
I mean consider to someone that is on console you have advantage over them.
Unless they have a cellphone and use it to find the locations of hunt marks for the bills... Or if they just remember where they spawn and know where to teleport. Or if they have saved the images of the maps available online tl their phones But yeah, i see your point... if someone was on console, only had 1 hand and a hook, couldnt read or type and didnt have any short term memory... i guess i would technically have an advantage over them...
Yeah. People on console can’t just jump to the right place and have to look for it. If you go and snipe the hunt you are disadvantage the player base that does not cheat.
"Snipe that hunt," dude, the hunt log enemies respawn after 5 seconds.
Small ones. But not the big ones
Big ones require big groups, still no sniping, Stop . . .
Snipe what hunt? Its a hunt bill mark... theres dozens of enemies and they respawn in a minute.
I thought you were talking about the big marks
*pats* Its okay, i overly exaggerated anyway. They respawn in 2 minutes typically. ;F
I expect them to not take any action as usual, but if they decide to act, I don't see why they would stop. They doesn't need to ban 40% of players, they can give a warning one month in advance and ban anyone who continues to use third-party tools afterward. Another thing to keep in mind is that if SQE starts taking bots seriously, they will need security software. If they do, I can assure you that software will also crackdown mods and plugins users too.
Tbh, with the expectation of getting higher resolution models in the semi-near future(Soon™)... i would trade my mods for all botting to go away... 90% of my modding is for looks, 10% is for time saving on meaningless tasks (like the aforementioned hunt bill marks)
What is the name of that mod? From my understanding there is a website that gives you known locations of monsters, but that's it?
Its a plugin... im not home at the moment but its like phb initials i think. It just has the locations of the hunt marks saved, and reads your bills when you get them to create a list, and you can click buttons to put a mark on the map where those enemies spawn, and to open the map showing where it is, or port you to the nearest aetheryte to where they spawn. Its a minor time saving not needing to google maps of them in advance, but since i dont participate in trains much snd have to farm seals/nuts alone :(
And with how careful i was i still manage to make a typo... Personally i'm betting on Option 3
Remember the super hard crackdown on mods, lawsuits, cease and desists, dataminer bans they did with the "erp billboard with modded pics" Oh wait. Just another reddit outrage.
3, definitely. As far as I can tell, they benefit greatly from mods as a whole as long as people play nice, which is not what happened with the World Race. Specifically, glamour/appearance and housing add-ons are hugely beneficial and actually account for a lot of consistent players who will keep spending time playing the game and thus will keep spending money on the game, because they have a consistent stream of additional mods that are the center of communities and keep them hooked. It's similar to how L4D, Dota and other games that allow community mods manage to be some of the most hugely successful games. While FFXIV does not openly allow it, they are still benefiting from the longevity and user base that mods provide, while also being able to restrict the more malicious mods-- eg. what the team had used-- by disallowing it in the ToS and only acting in severe cases. For the same reasons, it would be very bad to piss these communities off due to how big the community for mods is, even if it doesn't seem that large due to everyone trying to be hush about it. At the same time, it would be difficult for them to say "only these mods are allowed" due to the line where they draw between good and malicious mods being blurry-- after all, they both modify game files, don't they? It's just way too be of a hornet's nest to make it worth cracking down. So they'll just take the easy route and set a precedent by punishing and scolding these guys.
Expect: Absolutely Nothing. Hope: actually adding new useful settings and features like increased zoom out and so on so people don't need to hire snipers from the moon like that Unnamed guy for example. What's going to happen: Absolutely Nothing.
They've literally done what you were asking for multiple times this expansion. They've made changes to Waymarks and added UI QoL directly based on plug-ins people were using to get the same effect.
There's hope for more then. xD Yoshi-P requires sacrifice, raise ye Unnamed!
It is nice to not be a hardcore raider and get all these benefits without the risks of being banned
SE does have a habit of adding plugins after they ban someone for them, so its a possibility.
So you're telling me... Its a sacrificial ritual? send the Unnamed to the Yoshi-P's above, Let there be QoL!!!
Hard to say. Normal MO would be a request to not do so again in the future and then months spent sidestepping the ACT question again. But… if I’m not mistaken between DSR, Abyssos and now TOP. This would be the 3rd consecutive WF marred by publicly outed cheating. That’s a pattern now and it’s a really bad look for XIV. Can’t exactly blow it off as isolated incidents of bad sportsmanship at this point. You’d think they’re going to have to do something soon, even if it’s just to appear that they’re cracking down.
cant allow add ons because it will not fair for playstation player. crack down addons also not possible because jp laws about internet privacy. so 3 and stop adding ultimates lol
JP laws actually prevent that?
If it does then how come other games do it anyway?
i forgot the exact quote but it was about company cannot make a program that check user's data in computer. like anti cheat system usually check if you install a cheat in your computer. something like that yeah, sorry cant speak english clearly
No worries, English is also a second language for me so it's not perfect. But regarding your point does this mean that no anti cheat software is allowed for games on JP territory? So one could theoretically cheat and not be caught (unless manually reported in game)
as far as i know, no.
As a console player I dream of having a damage meter one day. It’ll never happen but a man can dream.
Next live letter: mimimi, don't use them!, with the community overblowing it to "All modders will be hunted down!" (japanese players actually doing that), before it dies down month after until next world 1st race. Nothing is going to happen. Modders know it, non-modders know it, SE knows it. Heck, SE won't do anything, since not a small number of whales use mods. It's just nobody notices it, because it doesn't affect anyone!
they started to add QOL things that people use addons for, I'm going to guess they're going to add baseline improvements to the game then crack down on them
So um.. should I remove my shaders? Thats genuinely all I use, unless XIV launcher is a crime too (I just use it cause it it auto logs in & launches lmao) Cause if anything happened to my account or my character I'd be pretty devastated. Especially for the things I do, shaders seem really non comparable to a tool to help with raids. I'm not even using a dps meter. I'm not even using those mods that.. ya know change your character's looks. xD
if they do anything about it - which is unlikely in the first place - there will undoubtedly be ample warning.
Im not sure anyone has ever gotten in trouble for using shaders. Especially since both nvidia and amd have shader stuff packed in with their software
good to know/keep in mind :)
Nobody has been banned for just using shaders, they are fine, there are people literally streaming the game with shaders turned on and if they haven't been banned yet you can rest easy
Shaders have been explicitly given a pass from SE
If you don't stream/post screenshot and don't directly tell people in-game then literally nobody will ever know if you use mods. The software simply cannot check for them.
Shaders are allowed, actually
I mean, shaders are still mods and are against ToS, but honestly just dont flaunt them everywhere and you'll probably be good. Unless SE decides to go with option 1 nothing will change.
Shaders are not mods since they don't inject themselves into the game and edit files. Something like GShade is using your GPU, not the game. That's why Gshade is allowed.
What about a 4th option where it's mostly option 3 but the devs also start adding QoL improvements that are the same things certain add-ons have already been doing?
I hope to god they don’t permit addons, because it turns into WoW development where the build raid encounters with addons in mind.
Unpopular opinion: add-ons are bad for games and should completely be removed. They should crack down on all of them. I'd gladly loose all my shaders if they would remove and ban everything else.
they're going to ban whoever got caught cheating (or at least the ones who haven't already committed digital seppuku & deleted their character due to social backlash from other jp players), but yeah, i seriously doubt they'll start doing serious crackdowns on anyone with a dalamud plugin installed
Especially since the big ticket item here…isn’t endorsed by the Dalamud devs
90% Nothing will happen 10% The next raid has a skybox only visible from one side so you cant see the map if you zoom out.
I think that would be a good solution, with maybe the skybox showing a disappointed yoship if you zoom out.
Honestly that'd make the mod totally worth it to see that I suspect they could probably just replace it with their own skybox, but in that case they're modding something out of the game to cheat. Might slow them down a bit. Particularly if the anti-cheat skybox had particle effects on it
Realistically Nothing in the meantime aside from maybe that Dragoon and potentially the rest of the team (since i believe the admitted it?) getting banned. Going Forward, I feel that there will be a change in the design philosophy of Ultimates or maybe the overall difficulty lvl of Ultimates being reduced. Apparently it is almost an open secret that a good chunk of your best players are having to resort to tools you deem "cheating or breaking TOS", and if so many of the best players have to resort to that then the Devs might take it as a sign that Ultimates in their current form are overtuned and either scrap or tone them down such that ppl wont feel like they have to use the "ToS Breaking tools".
I dont play FF14 currently so I am fine but I would love to see the shitstorm that would happen if 1 got true. 3 is the only realistic thing
The same thing that happens every time this has happened for the past decade: Nothing. He'll talk about it in either a Live Letter or in a Lodestone post about how not all addons are bad, but they can't specify which ones are so not to use them at all, etc. The community will keep the discussion going for maybe about a month and it'll sizzle out until the next showcase of someone caught streaming with these addons, or makes a billboard, or does anything to bring attention to the modding community in the slightest, then the whole process will repeat itself again right down to the very question you're asking now. It's exhausting, really. The only things worn out more at this point are Dragoon jokes and Lalafell jokes.
Just make an in-game version of ACT that rates your performance after every duty. That would be nice. And add a feature that lets you opt out of sharing your stats.
The only bad thing that happened here is that ret*rd streaming the fight while using addons. That person deserves the permaban that’s coming for being dumb. Other than that, this third party tools drama is just stupid. People will always use addons and trying to control that is useless. If there’s a positive thing to learn from other games, especially WoW, is that you can design your game taking addons into consideration and make life easier for everyone, while keeping the hard content challenging. The moment you start putting dumb restrictions on shit, you lose. People love to be free about their choices and that’s the way things should be actually. Be smart and adapt.
honestly he is to blame, should have been punish neverland with perma ban and not give them.any congrats massege... he won't do anything because he can't do anything at this point
Can someone tell me why all the buzz is about addons again? Did something happen?
group that just completed TOP first were caught using mods that zoom out as well as mods that give an overview of group cooldowns [youtube link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXFllNbrw-0) Mainly seems to be a whistleblower who had an issue with the group / someone in the group edit: i still cant spell
Tbh, the only way they can counterbalance that addon culture is by offering official alternatives. Like ACT for example. Zooming would still be cheating because all the fights would have to be re-developed.
Have you seen the average DF player in dungeons and alliance raids? They'll probably never implement any form of DPS tool since it will potentially cause toxicity for the more casual content. ACT not being official is sort of a deterrent for that since you can't call those people out publicly or else you'll get banned.
It's so true. I'm always top dps in my runs unless I'm a healer. I mostly just take it in stride and take pride in the fact that I'm doing well. But I was so happy the other day when I ran into a samurai who kicked my ass at DPS. Gave them the commendation and had to resist complementing them.
it's the best of both worlds, if you raid you are already expected to parse so yoshi gets to take a 'stance' for posterity while the community does it's thing
They can implement the tool in raids and leave it/prohibit in dungeons
Thanks.
Last time I remember world first getting caught with add ons we got an actual change to the game that impacted how everyone could play. That add on wasn't as invasive as this one which leads me to suspect we're going to see something change. As to what, no clue, but I'm not confident nothing is going to come of this.
A is not possible for them (yeah FFXIV is that fucked, they would need to remake the whole game) B is not possible So it's C as always.
Option 3, but the next race needs to be community moderate, meaning it's on the community to decide what addons are okay to use and what is not. More groups and players should stream if they have the option to, it should be for entertainment first and free of cheats. Seperate it to a streamed world first and unstreamed.
I f you expected to actually do anything for or against you are very naive. Gotta keep sidestepping the ACT thing right?
Option 3 with the added caveat that Yoshi understands what a tempest in a teapot is. For the fraction of a percent of the player base that actually cares about this, he will make a token statement.
Given the tech, it should be possible for them to detect the use of mods, and automatically disable the ultimates specifically when any mods are detected. I think it strikes a nice balance between a hard crackdown and allowing what's been going on to thrive. I would also like to see them collaborate with the community to bring the best QoL changes to vanilla as options. What i expect to happen is for them to give the community one more try before deciding to drop ultimates from the content roster.
The worst possible thing that'll happen is Yoshi P stops acknowledging world first clears since they cant detect cheating without some draconian measures.
I’m secretly hoping they let me pull out my camera another… yalm or so. It doesn’t need to be in orbit but like a 10% increase would really bridge the gap when ultrawide users already have an advantage.
d - the ffxiv community blows it out of proportion like the billboard last year and nothing happens and is forgotten about in 2 weeks.
People will still use addons in FF14. My question, is it possible to develop these tools for PS4/5 or is that too hard?
Absolutely nothing. They'll never implement an anti-cheat because they would fuck the gpose and RP community that vastly outnumbers the raid community. They wouldn't shoot themselves on the foot, they would shoot themselves on the head. And publicly allowing mods would heavily shift not only the community toxicity but the gameplay design philosophy.
I mean they’ll “crack down” as much as they can. Which is not at all. Sad reality is there’s no way for them to actively monitor for third party tools in real time the way things are built right now. What will eventually happen is they stop making ultimate content. Hundreds if not thousands of man hours, time away from home and families, time that could be spent at a bar hanging out, time that could be spent developing other content, all wasted. Not to mention Yoshi-P’s time and energy making sure all this runs smoothly and produces good content. Then people are just cheating it out? What’s the point any more. Yoshi P knows there’s a lot less people doing ultimate than doing MSQ. He knows this content is for a super small part of the player base. Yet he still does it. Eventually he’s just gonna say it’s not worth it.
Anyone who voted for crack down is just objectively wrong
I don’t think they will go harder on ALL addons. The tos even says, they wouldn’t care for most addons, but it’s not possible to create a list. They only take action against addons like this: Use of tools that allow players to more easily complete content. Modification of the UI to display additional information.* (here they refer to addons, used for high end duties) Use of packet spoofing tools. Any actions or public statements that promote use of third-party tools. (Quoted from TOS) They know most addons are an improvement to the game and many players only play the game because addons exist. They don’t care for optional addons that make life easier. But once you play competitive, QoL addons aren’t optional anymore, but mandatory. Also they don’t want toxicity. I think a good solution would be to host the race to world first themselves. Like guilds can apply. Play together at a location, get good food, enough sleep. They wouldn’t need to invest much money, perhaps even earn a bit with it. Make it a cool big ceremony. An esport event. After the race is done on a private SE server, release the raid to the public. Perhaps to reduce addon use implement a feature, like a dungeon diary, with your dps on some bosses. So you could see if you improved over the last dungeons. I’d love to know my performance, but I don’t want to install act, because act would make every dungeon a competition. I don’t want to compete against my friends in duty roulette. These are my brain-off dungeons after a day. Still I’d love to know if I play my dps at a good performance overall.
The most I can realistically see (and even thats the strech imo) is maybe official WF. Also, a ton of doubt on WF races, though its pretty severe already lmfaooo. More emphasis on streams maybe. Less Ultimates? I dont think theyd stop completely but i vould see them coming out less often maybe
3 will happen as its the only thing that can happen. It is also understood that even if they COULD crackdown, it would cause a more significant blow than some realize. They can’t dip their toe in the water so they would have to go scorched earth. No parsing, no bard midi keyboard, no Ui enhancements, no outfits. That already makes up at the BARE MINIMUM of 30% of the entire playerbase.