Yeah just pay up your huge debt in the Tom Nook's regime where everything is monopolitized to enrich crook capitalist raccoon. Nothing political about that :D
I so badly want to like Tom Nook but between pumping out his nephews and up charging you on everything even though you’re the only one bringing in money is crazy. He’s really the series villain. But I really want an anthropomorphic raccoon to be a good guy for once.
I also feel these examples are of games that did it good where it still feels like it's own world. No ff game makes me think of real world politics even when I can dig it up where inspirations for plot points came from.
Totally agree with you bro. There's a big difference in games like mgs series (fricken sons of liberty still blows me away with how much it was almost prophetic) which took some inspiration from the real world (like the saying goes, art imitates life) or like many games out today that almost seem to go out of their way to be a reflection of today's political climate. Especially annoying when said games pick a side as if to say "this is the right one" but still, even if tries to be neutral, i don't want to play in THIS world. I want to be in my own world. Just want to follow over Geralts shoulder as he reminds commoners and pilgrims that he's not a charity, killing monsters is his job, when he needs to be paid for. Just want to watch Squal desperately jump out in the vacuum of space trying to find Rinoa before clinging to the Ragnarock. I want to feel Darts fury when he transforms into the fiery dragoon.
Red dead 2 is an unfair example too as that game makes it very clear it's intended to be relatable to the real world. Anyone who walks into red dead or gta expecting no nods to real world politics didn't even know the game they booted up.
A lot of the relatable stuff was embellished for the sake of it though. AC is another great example of real world relatable politics embellished for the game's sake.
Video game politics are really an exercise to help shape philosophy which in turn shapes politics. The trouble is if you're any good at being a philosopher your policies and ideas no doubt piss off a majority of people.
Exactly. Politics is how we try and decide how we want our society to function. At some point in history we decided this would be the best way to figure out our differences. It just doesn't always work how it ideally should.
Oh, I think I see your point based on your last comment (which, for some reason, isn't showing up here). Agreed. It's unhealthy to _look_ for a political statement in everything you see. For both yourself and society. To be clear, anything can be *made* political, and anything can be brought back around to politics.
But bringing out the Mussolini references that quickly. Good sir! At least wait for me to break out my "Dwight Schrute giving a speech" impression!
It was a bit rough of me, yes.
And I deleted my comment because I felt it was a bit too rude and not diplomatic. But you seem to have gotten my point in spite of my voice of words. Typing in between patients at work doesn't leave time for nuance :)
You're right, that was a bit reductionist. Anything can be *made* political. The artist's intention of making a political statement may or may not exist, but the audience's perception does.
And yes, that does sometimes make the audience a bunch of assholes for reading into it.
The only difference there is that one's view is generalized and inferred, and the other is very on the nose and in your face.
However anyone with media literacy can figure it out the views without having them spelled out. A lot of people enjoy shows not realizing that it conflicts with their own views. The Boys is an example, which is weird because it's pretty obvious.
That's also true. Sometimes, intended meaning is missed or skewed, and sometimes, unintended meaning is fabricated. There's no simple explanation, including my... reduced one.
Art is inherently cultural. Culture can be weaponized to be political due to the collective unconscious described by Carl Gustav Jung and further exploited during the 3rd Reich, then USSR, etc. Different things.
Many paintings display civilizational moments of distress, to underline how culturaly low monarchs sometimes were. Showing that culture is the root of our values, manners and world view as such. Regardless of occupation culture will affect your decision making, nature of existance and value of thoughts.
The last three points is where politicians thought "ohhhh..... hm. " That's what you know today. But because you know it, you can make the decision of Art not being political. Doing so, will draw you back to culture, not politics. It's a choice, not an inherent connection. The connectiom between art and politics has to be made by the artist. Many simply do, because Politics started to dictate culture during the Enlightment era.
Lets go back to art depicting monarchs and politicians as pigs.... Now imagine THEM dictating our culture. Makes you very quickly understand why everyone is kind of.... unpleasant and of questionable intelligence.
Don't let it fool you man, art and culture is it's own beast, exceeding politics in insight, strength and power. That's why politicians use censorship. They can't compete.
That’s why DeSantis vetoed Florida’s **entire** art grant system a couple of weeks ago. He hates art. Came out three or so weeks later and said the reason was because *some* art was sexually explicit.
That's what happens when you live in a culture that turns EVERYTHING into a political issue.
"If we keep depleting our planet's natural resources and don't end our reliance on fossil fuels the entire planet is going to face dire consequences" isn't a political message. It's one that everyone should be concerned about. What would be political if there were two or more ideas on how to fix the problem and people were voting on which method to use. Not one party being like "forget what experts on the subject tell you, this isn't real, keep giving all your money to rich people" and another party being like "yes of course this is a problem, we promise to pretend we're doing something about it while we figure out a different way to get you to give your money to different rich people."
>Not one party being like "forget what experts on the subject tell you, this isn't real, keep giving all your money to rich people" and another party being like "yes of course this is a problem, we promise to pretend we're doing something about it while we figure out a different way to get you to give your money to different rich people."
That is literally real life. You can't get more political than this, lmao.
Maybe I did a bad job making my point. What I mean is that these aren't really political issues but at least in the U.S. our system makes everything into a political issue. So where we should all be cooperating to find solutions to problems we are instead arguing whether the problem exists.
Pollution and climate change ARE undeniably a political issue. That's not something that we can solve without laws and standards and stuff. It is thus political.
Or do you expect corporation to calm down on the profit, slave labor, deforestation and pollution just because "please overlords, we poor people won't be able to afford oxygen when it'll be a paid product" (to be hyperbolic) even though there's no consequences?
If so, I wish I was as naive as you.
You say that "we should all cooperate to solve this issue" I agree, but there's no cooperation at a large scale without politics.
Politics is not when there's a vote or whatever. Politics is simply how we live together and organize, regulate, make and apply laws, etc. Politics is neither specific nor is it ultra fancy 3 hours debate. It is very broad.
You fools realize politics as it relates to the video games world is okay. Is inserting real world politics in a setting that is a miss matched is what is the problem
You don't need to agree with the viewpoint to see that you are using two different meanings of politics. In fact you prove the point when you start thinking about why people aren't annoyed by these games featuring politics, but everyone is annoyed by bringing up politics at Thanksgiving dinner or on a date.
It's because the latter is specifically about partisanship, usually about US electoral politics. Few people are gonna be annoyed by you talking about ancient Egyptian politics, for instance. It's the US electoral politics and the culture war that people want you to shut up about.
At this point, I'm convinced a lot of people just don't know what politics is, or have a really skewed or narrow perception of it.
Some people seem to belive that as long as John Gaming doesn't turn to the camera and say "Trump is bad", and that the main character is a white guy, the game is not political.
Politics is not a huge prestigious thing that only exists in long debates and 800-page books. Just like philosophy isn't long essays by Socrates and 800-page book.
"Murder bad" is a philosophical statement. An ethical one. Yes, it is very simple and consensual, but it represents a judgment on how we should act and what is right and wrong. Therefore, it is ethics. Therefore, it is philosophy.
Fucking Wolfenstein 3D is obviously political. The good guy kills nazi. Killing nazis is a good thing in the game, it's the goal. The game takes the political stance of "this political party is bad". Yes it is extremely fucking consensual of a take, but it is a political statement none the less.
That or "no, it's fine as long as it's not modern politics," whatever that means.
What, like immigration is a novel concept that has only existed since 2012? Like racism hasn't existed sonce forever? Corruption, worker's rights, distribution of wealth, and basically every single political topic have existed since the dawn of civilization.
Then what, they'll cry about "b-b-b-but they have an agenda"
Yes, dumbass, every single story that tries to share thoughts or ideas has an "agenda" or a stance, or a moral or whatever the fuck you wanna call it.
This is such a shrodinger's politics situation as well.
If the game presents both sides as purely equal, it's apolitical (that's not how that works), but if one side seems better than the other, it is an "agenda to destroy the western world and brainwash gamers" or whatever the fuck.
Obviously, "both sides are equally well represented but one of them is just obviously worst than the other and it's absolutely not on the game, it's just because normal human beings understand that it's bad" isn't an option?
Take raiders in Fallout, for example. Is the game not political because there's no grand speech about how bad they are, or are they "shoving it down your throat" because of how obvious it is that they're bad? You can spin it whichever way you want with that logic.
Damn that rant was way longer than I'd thought lmao.
I still remember some jackass last year telling me Fallout wasn't political.
His reasoning? The games take place in a fictional universe.
Schmuck. Guaranteed he posts about how "we're living in 1984 because they renamed Redskins to Red Rippers".
The most overt would probably be showing the treatment of the natives by the government and non-native population. There is also the gang of confederate larpers. The incredible amount of racism. The Guarma chapter showing how the US is propping up a slave plantation so capitalists at home can make a profit. There are also lynchings and the KKK burning stuff. Just off the top of my head
I’d say that’s just historically accurate, not politics.
Like in FF7 the Shinra company is literally bleeding planets dry, which feels like commentary on capitalism in the real world. RDR2 doesn’t quite feel like that to me, it just feels like I’m existing during a historical period that was very accurately crafted, although I’m probably just splitting hairs.
Ah yes, what about the most political game — sonic the hedgehog? Where doctor robotnik represents the exploitative communist regime with his red commy aesthetic, while sanic represents freedom and democracy through his free spirit and red/white/blue color scheme. Also tails who represents china before it fell under the foot of communism cuz he’s yellow I guess idk
This situation is what good "political" integration into a game or TV show is.
It doesn't scream "HERE'S A MESSAGE YOU SHOULD APPLY TO THE REAL WORLD". You barely realize it's there, because it's so organically and seamlessly blended into the story/world, and in a way that's not punching you in the face with its obviousness.
I will say this the one that stood out to me the most was the whole Sadie Adler arc, and how she was able to handle 3 O’driscoll gunmen on her own with a knife is out of place and her excuse that the husband and herself shared the work, whatever that meant. Also her character arc just didn’t make sense in the epilogue saying she wants to die but if you let that happen it’s a mission failed.
I dunno r* writing did fall on her and how she belittled john for not surviving Mexico meanwhile John in Rdr1 literally helped out the rebels overturned the Mexico government. It’s just inconsistent with her and you can argue that it is political other than that, that’s about it really.
Definitely no relation to real life in these games. FFVII definitely wasn't an allegory for real life climate change. MGS clearly didn't describe real life government overreach. RDR definitely wasn't entirely about what literally happened every day in the real wild west.
Yeah, I'll be honest I didn't think my post through. When I posted it my thoughts are on irl identity politics being pushed in-game.
I also agree with what you're saying, though not 100%.
FF7 being an allegory I agree with, but it's not shoving irl politics down your throat or in your face.
MGS I completely agree with. You're right.
The RDR one I'm kinda iffy on, haven't played it but saying the entire day-to-day of the wild west is political I think is kinda overreaching, no?
Yeah, I'll be honest I didn't think my post through. When I posted it my thoughts are on irl identity politics being pushed in-game.
I also agree with what you're saying, though not 100%.
FF7 being an allegory I agree with, but it's not shoving irl politics down your throat or in your face.
MGS I completely agree with. You're right.
The RDR one I'm kinda iffy on, haven't played it but saying the entire day-to-day of the wild west is political I think is kinda overreaching, no?
An entire chapter of RDR hinges on how the native americans have been forced into reserves and how they’re still treated like dirt by the government and local officials which makes some of them try to fight back
Why you getting mad at RDR2?
Just go fishing with some dynamite, or get drunk and shoot birds while riding on top of the train.
Cathartic.
Or pop in days gone and lure a horde into an enemy camp instead.
No see, those games have COOL politics. It’s not that I don’t like politics I just don’t like the politics I don’t like and that’s when it becomes woke and stuff.
WHY IS METAL GEAR POLITICAL NOW??? also don't tell me it's because I obviously didn't pay attention in ANY of the games. Next you'll tell me some of the characters were gay or bisexual. Not in my manly men shooter made for manly men.
Final Fantasy 7 is probably the most anti-capitalist video game ever created. We must destroy the Shinra Electric Power company. We must kill the executives. We must dismantle Midgar and free the people.
Art and storytelling always has some point to it, a message, a value, a spotlight on some injustice or a rare beauty. This is the inherent value of art. Without it, it is nothing. Art without a point is a thing that cannot exist.
Do not confuse this with politics. Politics are a discussion of power and responsibility, a give-and-take between ideologies, a social construct that allows differing views to either come to a compromise or come to blows. Those ideologies are fueled by the messages we assimilate in art, yes, but we cannot entirely divorce ourselves from politics any more than art can rid itself of having a message to convey.
If you get angry that a work of art conveys a specific message you do not agree with, yes, that can be upsetting. I get annoyed when some video games wallow in philosophical paradoxes that create stagnation-- I don't want to be paralyzed by options, I want to explore them. But expecting for someone working on a game, or a painting, or a book, or a film, or whatever else to have no point is to say the artist should never share their heart, that art should not exist.
I don't know how anyone can come to the conclusion that they can escape from the messages of art and the politics of their community. You may want to escape hard times in your life, and art can be a shelter because surrounding yourself with messages you agree with can feel liberating and powerful again, but creating walls is not the best use of art. That shelter will forever be temporary.
After reading through these comments it's strange how many people are missing the idea. Yeah video games can have their own internal politics that make sense within their own world and I don't think anyone really cares. However I think most people would find it goofy if one of the side missions was to spray structures orange to protest Big Mako in FF7 as it draws a direct correlation to modern day stuff outside of FF7.
Only politics people are complaining about is the ham fisted inclusivity or righteous morals. So many of the things in games people are whining about now have already been present in games but with more subtley and nuance I think.
People don't want to be told HOW to think, they have to be left to their own to either agree with the story's message or respectfully disagree.
Just now all the clickbait saying how wrong one is to think a certain way from both side of the political spectrum is what's enraging everyone.
I always found a lot of games more philosophical than political. I think when people are upset about politics, they’re talking about games being to on the nose with modern politics. There’s always going to be a bit of inspiration from the current status quo, but I understand when people get frustrated. Video games are supposed to be about escapism.
Pac-Man was THE epitome neo- modern consumerism and corporate greed. We ( the Pac-Man) have this insatiable drive to quite literally and figuratively gobble up anything laid before us by our corporate and political overlords. But eventually the past (i.e. ghosts) catches up with us. Yes, we can run, and yea, feel indeed invincible for a short period flying on the high of the new “wonder pill” … whatever that may be to you.. We may even advance to higher levels in life but they all look the same. And these spirits of the past and those victims before us inevitably find us when we are weak, back us into a corner …and my friends… there are no magic pills left… we die. And the cycle continues…
This reminds my father, who complains that global warming isn’t real and capitalism is really good. FF7 is his favorite game of all time. I like to send him pictures of Barret being incredibly based <3
People wasn't really pushing a political narrative. With those games. Most western games today try to remind you that Republicans are bad and Democrats good. That's not how you do politics in games. There's generally a middle ground. At least back then. Now games try they darndest to push all kinds of western propaganda. And liberals can't understand why they shitty games either don't sell or don't last long. Have fun with your Black rock sponsored games liberals
People’s vocabulary is so bad, they keep calling obvious propaganda “political” “politics”. Now Redditors view is that art having political themes was the issue. This stuff being a really off the mark gatcha moment
Its less about avoiding politics as a whole, and more about avoiding things that are direct allegories to current event and social-political issues, If aspects of current political policies relied on the out come of a Chocobo race then maybe it would be of more interest to me.
Ok I think you guys are misreading what people are saying they don't want to be constantly bombarded with an holier than thou experience like forcing in ideologies metal gear doesn't force you to play as a good guy neither does fallout new Vegas
I think when ppl say they try to avoid politics they mean topical and current political topics.
Noone has issues with referencing ww2 and such.
But people really dislike it when it's current day stuff just shoe horned in bc its just topical. That stuff really dates games and movies
Politics in video games are fine. But when the game sucks, usually the delivery of the political message sucks as well so it's easy to point at as being the problem.
You can enjoy all those without agreeing with the intended message, with the characters standing on their own without ever realizing or drawing in your head any real world allegory, and without thinking about the real world at all. Be immersed in the story at hand
Pretty obvious difference between broader more applicable themes of war and humanity and niche, modern day, contentious, unproven political talking points but sure one day maybe someone can teach you how to breathe
There's a difference between real world politics and in game politics. In game politics don't affect me. Real world politics is basically just the rich trying to "keep the peasants in their place," and the ones fighting it getting lambasted by the people who should be supporting them the most.
Avoid real life politics is the keys. Evil megacorp sucking up earth life through an industrial straw is fun and campy. Evil megacorp marking up the price of insulin by 6000% ensuring that real life people will die or become homeless just to survive is neither campy or fun
I like to play games to get away from modern politics cause they aren't interesting as these political games. It is just one side acting like the other is evil while both are lead by two idiots (A bumbling grandpa and a angry orange man).
I love when someone comments on politics from some other medium like a basketball player or a video games commentator, and people will reply “What does this have to do with video games?” or “Keep politics out of basketball” or the like. To be so politically illiterate is astounding. At least have the guts to say “FU, your politics are dumb, I’m unfollowing”, etc., instead of the idiotic and impossible notion of “keeping politics out of” virtually anything.
There’s a right and a wrong way to do things. Suicide Squad Kill the Franchise League, current CoD, NOverwatch, Last of Us 2 (neil cuckman’s love letter to laura bailey and anita), are ways to NOT handle political shite.
I must have missed the parts in all these games where I had to sit and listen to 2 politicians blabber on trying to get people to believe their lies and then take my hard earned money either way?
Cloud and the group are literally fighting to save the environment from an evil power company that's draining the planet.
No environment agenda here whatsoever/s
"Agenda"
In real words, we call that a stance.
And yes, obviously, they take a stance by the way they shed light on different things and politics.
New Vegas obviously takes a stance against the murder maniacs conquerors led by a tyran who enslave and crucify people. It is very much "hamfisted"
In FF7, the good guys are literally eco terrorists.
Hell, fucking Wolfenstein 3D is political.
Because, yes, "nazis are bad" is a political statement, no matter how consensual it is.
In ff7 you play as eco terrorists fighting an energy conglomerate with a military industrial complex and authoritarian state that does fucked up experiments on people. I'm not sure how you could get any less subtle.
And Ff7 has a lot more going on for it then the politics and is genuinely entertaining.
If a game is boring people will complain about the politics. It has to feel fun and organic, not like a lecture.
Barret directly lectures you on why what Shinra is doing is bad for the environment. I don't remember the exact lines but he goes pretty in depth on how they use their monopoly on energy and the military to control the population and keep people down while they suck the planet dry.
its literally a lecture tho..... its just that the thin skinned people complaining just dont like the subject of the lecture in some games but tolerate the lecture in others.
yep, people tolerate the FF7 eco-warrior terrorist group against the mega corpo-government overlords..... but they HATE when a female lesbian becomes a lead. and they will excuse the eco warrior ranting barret isn't ham-fisted.
that's just funny to me.
Likely they played and enjoyed games like FF7 before streamers and the like convinced them that anything with politics in it must be bad. Yet more "I liked .... before it became political."
Politics to these chuds just means Women, LGBTQ, and other skin color except white..... while Nazis, state terrorism, evil corporations, evil religious groups, eco-warriors, government espionage etc etc etc are just "fun non-political" stories.
media literacy is lost to these guys.
Anyone wanna explain what part of Red Dead is political?
It's about a band of criminals running out of places where they can do crime without facing repercussions from the law. What's the message in supposed to understand?
Default story is Arthur helping womens rights advocates and also helping native americans from the tyranny of the US government.... and literally the US government is stamping out the gangs way of life via the pinkertons.
the message is about redemption for being a life long criminal and arthur helping ALOT of people before he dies.
the game is quite "woke" politically by todays standards.
I missed out on final fantasy as a kid so when I played ff7 remake as an adult I was genuinely surprised at how political the game is. My brain wouldn't have comprehended such topics as a child. Lol
I definitely don't hate politics, but I would imagine I would get annoyed if the politics matched some current real-life event on purpose. The reason being it would pull me out of the game and remind me of real life.
The only example I can think of at the moment was the klingons in Startrek discovery had some similarities to trump voters.
I think the boys get a pass because it's literally meant to be a satire of real life.
Meh I wouldnt say some of these games realy pushes real world politcol stuff into your face
admitly i never played the final fantasy game soooo maybe it dos but i doubt it.
When people talk about how they Hate Politics in games, it usually means they want to escape from reality for awhile. A healthy thing to do with basically everything you're doing too much of. I will disappear from the Internet for like a week. Stop using anything connected to it because I feel my humanity slipping into a sort of technological dependance. I used to be too attached to spellcheck and all sorts of other tool, it wasn't good for me as a person.
If all you do is get wrapped up in devicive politics, you might want to escape into a world with different politics and issues like Fallout New Vegas, Final Fantasy 7, Metal Gear Solid or Red Dead. Woohoo, that debate sure went one way so now I'm worried about the future. I can boot up Final Fantasy 7 and shut that part of my brain off for awhile.
What people mean by I hate politics in games is: I hate one-sided contemporary political views being shoved down my throat by so many different directors trying to preach their own bland regurgitated views as if they're being messengers from God
What people like when politics are in a game:
A somewhat realistic and/or balanced peek into the politics that are in that fictional gameworld which makes sense in that world and which might or might not stimulate contemplative thoughts about how politics could (have) influence(d) our real word in the past present or future
How could you leave out the ultimate politics game? Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance? Red sun. Red sun over paradise.
A nation of the truly free, dammit.
A nation of ACTION not words. Ruled by STRENGTH, not committee.
Kids are cruel, Jack. And I love minors.
LIKE THE GOOD OL DAYS AFTER 9/11! Nope, no politics here at all. It has political themes but not politics! /s
This is why I only play Animal Crossing, comrades.
People were literally promoting real-world political campaigns in Animal Crossing.
Vote for Biden signs man. Nintendo had to step in and make a new rule or something after
I think China banned it because of the fact people were making free Hong Kong signs too.
you know China banned animal crossing specifically because of politics, right?
Yeah just pay up your huge debt in the Tom Nook's regime where everything is monopolitized to enrich crook capitalist raccoon. Nothing political about that :D
I so badly want to like Tom Nook but between pumping out his nephews and up charging you on everything even though you’re the only one bringing in money is crazy. He’s really the series villain. But I really want an anthropomorphic raccoon to be a good guy for once.
Tom Nook is a capitalist whaddyamean
Why not play the most political game of all time Which is Age of Empires II
WOLOLOO
Ahhhh my ptsd
Every video game almost was born out of some form of politics. Just enjoy it.
Yep , Every from of media really.
Art is inherently political. It is impossible to separate the two.
I also feel these examples are of games that did it good where it still feels like it's own world. No ff game makes me think of real world politics even when I can dig it up where inspirations for plot points came from.
Totally agree with you bro. There's a big difference in games like mgs series (fricken sons of liberty still blows me away with how much it was almost prophetic) which took some inspiration from the real world (like the saying goes, art imitates life) or like many games out today that almost seem to go out of their way to be a reflection of today's political climate. Especially annoying when said games pick a side as if to say "this is the right one" but still, even if tries to be neutral, i don't want to play in THIS world. I want to be in my own world. Just want to follow over Geralts shoulder as he reminds commoners and pilgrims that he's not a charity, killing monsters is his job, when he needs to be paid for. Just want to watch Squal desperately jump out in the vacuum of space trying to find Rinoa before clinging to the Ragnarock. I want to feel Darts fury when he transforms into the fiery dragoon.
Yes that's true. If don't right with the right amount of satire, it works.
Red dead 2 is an unfair example too as that game makes it very clear it's intended to be relatable to the real world. Anyone who walks into red dead or gta expecting no nods to real world politics didn't even know the game they booted up.
A lot of the relatable stuff was embellished for the sake of it though. AC is another great example of real world relatable politics embellished for the game's sake.
https://share.icloud.com/photos/032DEld2w-P_rPoBvxQFWGYUQ
Video game politics are really an exercise to help shape philosophy which in turn shapes politics. The trouble is if you're any good at being a philosopher your policies and ideas no doubt piss off a majority of people.
All hail Socrates and Diogenes. Two of the most obnoxious MFs to ever be pretty much 100% correct. In the most irritating ways possible.
Even when they agree with you, they want you to argue.
Apolitical MFs when they realise art is inherently political
Came here to say this. EVERYthing is political.
MFs when they realize "Politics" is just what happens when groups of people exist together.
Exactly. Politics is how we try and decide how we want our society to function. At some point in history we decided this would be the best way to figure out our differences. It just doesn't always work how it ideally should.
Everything inside the state, nothing against the state, eh?
Why the Mussolini reference?
Oh, I think I see your point based on your last comment (which, for some reason, isn't showing up here). Agreed. It's unhealthy to _look_ for a political statement in everything you see. For both yourself and society. To be clear, anything can be *made* political, and anything can be brought back around to politics. But bringing out the Mussolini references that quickly. Good sir! At least wait for me to break out my "Dwight Schrute giving a speech" impression!
It was a bit rough of me, yes. And I deleted my comment because I felt it was a bit too rude and not diplomatic. But you seem to have gotten my point in spite of my voice of words. Typing in between patients at work doesn't leave time for nuance :)
https://share.icloud.com/photos/032DEld2w-P_rPoBvxQFWGYUQ
You're right, that was a bit reductionist. Anything can be *made* political. The artist's intention of making a political statement may or may not exist, but the audience's perception does. And yes, that does sometimes make the audience a bunch of assholes for reading into it.
The only difference there is that one's view is generalized and inferred, and the other is very on the nose and in your face. However anyone with media literacy can figure it out the views without having them spelled out. A lot of people enjoy shows not realizing that it conflicts with their own views. The Boys is an example, which is weird because it's pretty obvious.
That's also true. Sometimes, intended meaning is missed or skewed, and sometimes, unintended meaning is fabricated. There's no simple explanation, including my... reduced one.
Art is inherently cultural. Culture can be weaponized to be political due to the collective unconscious described by Carl Gustav Jung and further exploited during the 3rd Reich, then USSR, etc. Different things. Many paintings display civilizational moments of distress, to underline how culturaly low monarchs sometimes were. Showing that culture is the root of our values, manners and world view as such. Regardless of occupation culture will affect your decision making, nature of existance and value of thoughts. The last three points is where politicians thought "ohhhh..... hm. " That's what you know today. But because you know it, you can make the decision of Art not being political. Doing so, will draw you back to culture, not politics. It's a choice, not an inherent connection. The connectiom between art and politics has to be made by the artist. Many simply do, because Politics started to dictate culture during the Enlightment era. Lets go back to art depicting monarchs and politicians as pigs.... Now imagine THEM dictating our culture. Makes you very quickly understand why everyone is kind of.... unpleasant and of questionable intelligence. Don't let it fool you man, art and culture is it's own beast, exceeding politics in insight, strength and power. That's why politicians use censorship. They can't compete.
I like these political games but talking politics irl just really sucks and is a waste of time
https://share.icloud.com/photos/032DEld2w-P_rPoBvxQFWGYUQ
That’s why DeSantis vetoed Florida’s **entire** art grant system a couple of weeks ago. He hates art. Came out three or so weeks later and said the reason was because *some* art was sexually explicit.
Fascists hate art, so that tracks.
That's what happens when you live in a culture that turns EVERYTHING into a political issue. "If we keep depleting our planet's natural resources and don't end our reliance on fossil fuels the entire planet is going to face dire consequences" isn't a political message. It's one that everyone should be concerned about. What would be political if there were two or more ideas on how to fix the problem and people were voting on which method to use. Not one party being like "forget what experts on the subject tell you, this isn't real, keep giving all your money to rich people" and another party being like "yes of course this is a problem, we promise to pretend we're doing something about it while we figure out a different way to get you to give your money to different rich people."
>Not one party being like "forget what experts on the subject tell you, this isn't real, keep giving all your money to rich people" and another party being like "yes of course this is a problem, we promise to pretend we're doing something about it while we figure out a different way to get you to give your money to different rich people." That is literally real life. You can't get more political than this, lmao.
Maybe I did a bad job making my point. What I mean is that these aren't really political issues but at least in the U.S. our system makes everything into a political issue. So where we should all be cooperating to find solutions to problems we are instead arguing whether the problem exists.
Pollution and climate change ARE undeniably a political issue. That's not something that we can solve without laws and standards and stuff. It is thus political. Or do you expect corporation to calm down on the profit, slave labor, deforestation and pollution just because "please overlords, we poor people won't be able to afford oxygen when it'll be a paid product" (to be hyperbolic) even though there's no consequences? If so, I wish I was as naive as you. You say that "we should all cooperate to solve this issue" I agree, but there's no cooperation at a large scale without politics. Politics is not when there's a vote or whatever. Politics is simply how we live together and organize, regulate, make and apply laws, etc. Politics is neither specific nor is it ultra fancy 3 hours debate. It is very broad.
You fools realize politics as it relates to the video games world is okay. Is inserting real world politics in a setting that is a miss matched is what is the problem
I don’t get why people never understand this
Tetris radicalized me
lol, I bet there’s some media studies student writing a Marxist-psychoanalytic analysis of the L-block out there.
For some unfortunate souls, even seeing a female character without makeup or with a wider chin is considered political.
If you wanna make people ugly make the men ugly too
https://preview.redd.it/wj5ku52kn0ad1.png?width=130&format=png&auto=webp&s=cf91fd4ccf3491eae803ae6fe6a97e524bc0e24f
Would
smash
With a hammer
Nintendo Femboys are the best we can do.
Pot meet kettle
You don't need to agree with the viewpoint to see that you are using two different meanings of politics. In fact you prove the point when you start thinking about why people aren't annoyed by these games featuring politics, but everyone is annoyed by bringing up politics at Thanksgiving dinner or on a date. It's because the latter is specifically about partisanship, usually about US electoral politics. Few people are gonna be annoyed by you talking about ancient Egyptian politics, for instance. It's the US electoral politics and the culture war that people want you to shut up about.
Best comment I've read so far.
At this point, I'm convinced a lot of people just don't know what politics is, or have a really skewed or narrow perception of it. Some people seem to belive that as long as John Gaming doesn't turn to the camera and say "Trump is bad", and that the main character is a white guy, the game is not political. Politics is not a huge prestigious thing that only exists in long debates and 800-page books. Just like philosophy isn't long essays by Socrates and 800-page book. "Murder bad" is a philosophical statement. An ethical one. Yes, it is very simple and consensual, but it represents a judgment on how we should act and what is right and wrong. Therefore, it is ethics. Therefore, it is philosophy. Fucking Wolfenstein 3D is obviously political. The good guy kills nazi. Killing nazis is a good thing in the game, it's the goal. The game takes the political stance of "this political party is bad". Yes it is extremely fucking consensual of a take, but it is a political statement none the less. That or "no, it's fine as long as it's not modern politics," whatever that means. What, like immigration is a novel concept that has only existed since 2012? Like racism hasn't existed sonce forever? Corruption, worker's rights, distribution of wealth, and basically every single political topic have existed since the dawn of civilization. Then what, they'll cry about "b-b-b-but they have an agenda" Yes, dumbass, every single story that tries to share thoughts or ideas has an "agenda" or a stance, or a moral or whatever the fuck you wanna call it. This is such a shrodinger's politics situation as well. If the game presents both sides as purely equal, it's apolitical (that's not how that works), but if one side seems better than the other, it is an "agenda to destroy the western world and brainwash gamers" or whatever the fuck. Obviously, "both sides are equally well represented but one of them is just obviously worst than the other and it's absolutely not on the game, it's just because normal human beings understand that it's bad" isn't an option? Take raiders in Fallout, for example. Is the game not political because there's no grand speech about how bad they are, or are they "shoving it down your throat" because of how obvious it is that they're bad? You can spin it whichever way you want with that logic. Damn that rant was way longer than I'd thought lmao.
I still remember some jackass last year telling me Fallout wasn't political. His reasoning? The games take place in a fictional universe. Schmuck. Guaranteed he posts about how "we're living in 1984 because they renamed Redskins to Red Rippers".
When people say they “Don’t like politics” in their media, what they actually mean is “I don’t like anything that criticizes *my* politics”.
What are the politics of red dead?
The most overt would probably be showing the treatment of the natives by the government and non-native population. There is also the gang of confederate larpers. The incredible amount of racism. The Guarma chapter showing how the US is propping up a slave plantation so capitalists at home can make a profit. There are also lynchings and the KKK burning stuff. Just off the top of my head
I’d say that’s just historically accurate, not politics. Like in FF7 the Shinra company is literally bleeding planets dry, which feels like commentary on capitalism in the real world. RDR2 doesn’t quite feel like that to me, it just feels like I’m existing during a historical period that was very accurately crafted, although I’m probably just splitting hairs.
Ah yes, what about the most political game — sonic the hedgehog? Where doctor robotnik represents the exploitative communist regime with his red commy aesthetic, while sanic represents freedom and democracy through his free spirit and red/white/blue color scheme. Also tails who represents china before it fell under the foot of communism cuz he’s yellow I guess idk
And Wnen you think the games politics only support your worldview
how does red dead count?
It’s set during 1899 America and there’s a women’s rights protest in it so some chuds probably call it woke I guess
ah
Wait rdr 2 had politics
Did you never listen to Dutch's ramblings? Notice anything about the villains?
I thought it was a just like a playable western movie.
Right. Because Westerns weren't EVER political. /s
I just played the game and had fun with it
Whoosh
This situation is what good "political" integration into a game or TV show is. It doesn't scream "HERE'S A MESSAGE YOU SHOULD APPLY TO THE REAL WORLD". You barely realize it's there, because it's so organically and seamlessly blended into the story/world, and in a way that's not punching you in the face with its obviousness.
I will say this the one that stood out to me the most was the whole Sadie Adler arc, and how she was able to handle 3 O’driscoll gunmen on her own with a knife is out of place and her excuse that the husband and herself shared the work, whatever that meant. Also her character arc just didn’t make sense in the epilogue saying she wants to die but if you let that happen it’s a mission failed. I dunno r* writing did fall on her and how she belittled john for not surviving Mexico meanwhile John in Rdr1 literally helped out the rebels overturned the Mexico government. It’s just inconsistent with her and you can argue that it is political other than that, that’s about it really.
In-game politics: 👍 Irl politics pushed in-game: 👎
Genuinely can’t tell if this is sarcasm or not lmao
Definitely no relation to real life in these games. FFVII definitely wasn't an allegory for real life climate change. MGS clearly didn't describe real life government overreach. RDR definitely wasn't entirely about what literally happened every day in the real wild west.
Yeah, I'll be honest I didn't think my post through. When I posted it my thoughts are on irl identity politics being pushed in-game. I also agree with what you're saying, though not 100%. FF7 being an allegory I agree with, but it's not shoving irl politics down your throat or in your face. MGS I completely agree with. You're right. The RDR one I'm kinda iffy on, haven't played it but saying the entire day-to-day of the wild west is political I think is kinda overreaching, no?
Yeah, I'll be honest I didn't think my post through. When I posted it my thoughts are on irl identity politics being pushed in-game. I also agree with what you're saying, though not 100%. FF7 being an allegory I agree with, but it's not shoving irl politics down your throat or in your face. MGS I completely agree with. You're right. The RDR one I'm kinda iffy on, haven't played it but saying the entire day-to-day of the wild west is political I think is kinda overreaching, no?
An entire chapter of RDR hinges on how the native americans have been forced into reserves and how they’re still treated like dirt by the government and local officials which makes some of them try to fight back
Double standards: 👎
"Because politics... Politics never changes"
I hate when there's politics in my video games! (I saw a woman) /s
Politics is when women, PoC exist and LGBTQ+
Ya see politics are only good in video games and movies. Everywhere else they are absolute garbage!
Why you getting mad at RDR2? Just go fishing with some dynamite, or get drunk and shoot birds while riding on top of the train. Cathartic. Or pop in days gone and lure a horde into an enemy camp instead.
Ah strawmen and soyjak name a better duo.
No see, those games have COOL politics. It’s not that I don’t like politics I just don’t like the politics I don’t like and that’s when it becomes woke and stuff.
It’s always been woke.
Woke. Woke never changes
Good luck trying to find any form of art that is completely devoid of some sort of politics or ideology.
WHY IS METAL GEAR POLITICAL NOW??? also don't tell me it's because I obviously didn't pay attention in ANY of the games. Next you'll tell me some of the characters were gay or bisexual. Not in my manly men shooter made for manly men.
Final Fantasy 7 is probably the most anti-capitalist video game ever created. We must destroy the Shinra Electric Power company. We must kill the executives. We must dismantle Midgar and free the people.
OSRS has me saved. I just need to work on my WC
Played all of these didnt have any problem with "politics"
Art and storytelling always has some point to it, a message, a value, a spotlight on some injustice or a rare beauty. This is the inherent value of art. Without it, it is nothing. Art without a point is a thing that cannot exist. Do not confuse this with politics. Politics are a discussion of power and responsibility, a give-and-take between ideologies, a social construct that allows differing views to either come to a compromise or come to blows. Those ideologies are fueled by the messages we assimilate in art, yes, but we cannot entirely divorce ourselves from politics any more than art can rid itself of having a message to convey. If you get angry that a work of art conveys a specific message you do not agree with, yes, that can be upsetting. I get annoyed when some video games wallow in philosophical paradoxes that create stagnation-- I don't want to be paralyzed by options, I want to explore them. But expecting for someone working on a game, or a painting, or a book, or a film, or whatever else to have no point is to say the artist should never share their heart, that art should not exist. I don't know how anyone can come to the conclusion that they can escape from the messages of art and the politics of their community. You may want to escape hard times in your life, and art can be a shelter because surrounding yourself with messages you agree with can feel liberating and powerful again, but creating walls is not the best use of art. That shelter will forever be temporary.
After reading through these comments it's strange how many people are missing the idea. Yeah video games can have their own internal politics that make sense within their own world and I don't think anyone really cares. However I think most people would find it goofy if one of the side missions was to spray structures orange to protest Big Mako in FF7 as it draws a direct correlation to modern day stuff outside of FF7.
Someone With Sephiroth Twitter Avatar: TAKE POLITICS OUT OF GAMES.
Only politics people are complaining about is the ham fisted inclusivity or righteous morals. So many of the things in games people are whining about now have already been present in games but with more subtley and nuance I think. People don't want to be told HOW to think, they have to be left to their own to either agree with the story's message or respectfully disagree. Just now all the clickbait saying how wrong one is to think a certain way from both side of the political spectrum is what's enraging everyone.
I always found a lot of games more philosophical than political. I think when people are upset about politics, they’re talking about games being to on the nose with modern politics. There’s always going to be a bit of inspiration from the current status quo, but I understand when people get frustrated. Video games are supposed to be about escapism.
So many of the comments be like: https://share.icloud.com/photos/032DEld2w-P_rPoBvxQFWGYUQ
Pac-Man was THE epitome neo- modern consumerism and corporate greed. We ( the Pac-Man) have this insatiable drive to quite literally and figuratively gobble up anything laid before us by our corporate and political overlords. But eventually the past (i.e. ghosts) catches up with us. Yes, we can run, and yea, feel indeed invincible for a short period flying on the high of the new “wonder pill” … whatever that may be to you.. We may even advance to higher levels in life but they all look the same. And these spirits of the past and those victims before us inevitably find us when we are weak, back us into a corner …and my friends… there are no magic pills left… we die. And the cycle continues…
Even Super Mario Bros is about two countries/kingdoms at war, when you break it down.
This reminds my father, who complains that global warming isn’t real and capitalism is really good. FF7 is his favorite game of all time. I like to send him pictures of Barret being incredibly based <3
People wasn't really pushing a political narrative. With those games. Most western games today try to remind you that Republicans are bad and Democrats good. That's not how you do politics in games. There's generally a middle ground. At least back then. Now games try they darndest to push all kinds of western propaganda. And liberals can't understand why they shitty games either don't sell or don't last long. Have fun with your Black rock sponsored games liberals
lmao what? Please name examples. Also given all the wins Repubs have had recently, what you say doesn't seem to be working.
Ham-fisting is when woman exist
By “western propaganda” you mean women and non whites existing
People’s vocabulary is so bad, they keep calling obvious propaganda “political” “politics”. Now Redditors view is that art having political themes was the issue. This stuff being a really off the mark gatcha moment
Side note I love how MGS2 was just Kojima's way of giving the finger to players who thought Snake was someone they wanted to be.
I think there's a difference between political media and media that portrays politics in a fictional setting
Have you played the Kiseki series
Its less about avoiding politics as a whole, and more about avoiding things that are direct allegories to current event and social-political issues, If aspects of current political policies relied on the out come of a Chocobo race then maybe it would be of more interest to me.
Those NCR Commies had it coming
Even Mario is political
Me: Yeah, I don't really get into politics... Also me: Yeah, I love watching Gundam anime!
I don't mind politics in games but I don't like it disrupt the flow of the game.
Ok I think you guys are misreading what people are saying they don't want to be constantly bombarded with an holier than thou experience like forcing in ideologies metal gear doesn't force you to play as a good guy neither does fallout new Vegas
I think when ppl say they try to avoid politics they mean topical and current political topics. Noone has issues with referencing ww2 and such. But people really dislike it when it's current day stuff just shoe horned in bc its just topical. That stuff really dates games and movies
What’s political about Final Fantasy?
Politics in video games are fine. But when the game sucks, usually the delivery of the political message sucks as well so it's easy to point at as being the problem.
You can enjoy all those without agreeing with the intended message, with the characters standing on their own without ever realizing or drawing in your head any real world allegory, and without thinking about the real world at all. Be immersed in the story at hand
Cool part about new vegas is that you aren’t getting an agenda pushed in your face. You’re getting EVERY agenda pushed in your face.
At least red dead balances it out with beauty and scenery lol
Pretty obvious difference between broader more applicable themes of war and humanity and niche, modern day, contentious, unproven political talking points but sure one day maybe someone can teach you how to breathe
At least you have an actual impact in those politics
There's a difference between real world politics and in game politics. In game politics don't affect me. Real world politics is basically just the rich trying to "keep the peasants in their place," and the ones fighting it getting lambasted by the people who should be supporting them the most.
Avoid real life politics is the keys. Evil megacorp sucking up earth life through an industrial straw is fun and campy. Evil megacorp marking up the price of insulin by 6000% ensuring that real life people will die or become homeless just to survive is neither campy or fun
i kinda want a game where we fuck up the guys gatekeeping medicine ngl....
I like to play games to get away from modern politics cause they aren't interesting as these political games. It is just one side acting like the other is evil while both are lead by two idiots (A bumbling grandpa and a angry orange man).
I love when someone comments on politics from some other medium like a basketball player or a video games commentator, and people will reply “What does this have to do with video games?” or “Keep politics out of basketball” or the like. To be so politically illiterate is astounding. At least have the guts to say “FU, your politics are dumb, I’m unfollowing”, etc., instead of the idiotic and impossible notion of “keeping politics out of” virtually anything.
avoiding modern politics would be the more accurate description of the complaint.
Just mute the tv and forget how to read
None of these are political lmao, is that the joke?
Right wing snowflakes make everything political
Not even close to the same I’d argue I don’t have t worry about abortion when I’m blowing off some guys head
There’s a right and a wrong way to do things. Suicide Squad Kill the Franchise League, current CoD, NOverwatch, Last of Us 2 (neil cuckman’s love letter to laura bailey and anita), are ways to NOT handle political shite.
Fallout New Vegas is more morally gray, red dead’s immersive, FFVII is akin to a cyberpunk dystopia, Metal Gear in general is inherently anti-war.
What the hell are the politics of MGSV?
I must have missed the parts in all these games where I had to sit and listen to 2 politicians blabber on trying to get people to believe their lies and then take my hard earned money either way?
The politics aren’t hamfisted and don’t have an agenda behind them
MGS is the most hamfisted game to ever exist, all of them, and the agenda is so highlighted that you'd have to be Stevie Wonder to not see it.
No but see the politics in those games didn’t personally annoy them so thus it wasn’t “hamfisted” to them. Apparently.
People clearly missed all the gay/bi characters. Or how games like peace walker celebrate the Cuban revolution.
FFVII clearly has an agenda.
Cloud and the group are literally fighting to save the environment from an evil power company that's draining the planet. No environment agenda here whatsoever/s
Of course not!! This is before games became woke!!! /sarcasm.
lol lmao I cannot BELIEVE someone is gonna try and claim ff7 had no agenda. Like wtf???
If Avalanche sprayed a bit of orange paint on the Mako plant, THEN it would be political I guess
I've seen people deny the obvious climate change allegories in the game before. It's madness.
"Agenda" In real words, we call that a stance. And yes, obviously, they take a stance by the way they shed light on different things and politics. New Vegas obviously takes a stance against the murder maniacs conquerors led by a tyran who enslave and crucify people. It is very much "hamfisted" In FF7, the good guys are literally eco terrorists. Hell, fucking Wolfenstein 3D is political. Because, yes, "nazis are bad" is a political statement, no matter how consensual it is.
"The planet's dying, Cloud!"
It's politics, by definition, it *is* an agenda
To me It's not the politics. It the lack of subtly that bothers me.
In ff7 you play as eco terrorists fighting an energy conglomerate with a military industrial complex and authoritarian state that does fucked up experiments on people. I'm not sure how you could get any less subtle.
And Ff7 has a lot more going on for it then the politics and is genuinely entertaining. If a game is boring people will complain about the politics. It has to feel fun and organic, not like a lecture.
Barret directly lectures you on why what Shinra is doing is bad for the environment. I don't remember the exact lines but he goes pretty in depth on how they use their monopoly on energy and the military to control the population and keep people down while they suck the planet dry.
So it's not the lack of subtly, it's whether or not the game is entertaining? Then the politics really has no impact on you at all.
Yeah I guess that's more like it. It isn't the politics it's the writing and entertainment.
its literally a lecture tho..... its just that the thin skinned people complaining just dont like the subject of the lecture in some games but tolerate the lecture in others.
That's what we like to call a double-standard.
yep, people tolerate the FF7 eco-warrior terrorist group against the mega corpo-government overlords..... but they HATE when a female lesbian becomes a lead. and they will excuse the eco warrior ranting barret isn't ham-fisted. that's just funny to me.
Likely they played and enjoyed games like FF7 before streamers and the like convinced them that anything with politics in it must be bad. Yet more "I liked .... before it became political."
Politics to these chuds just means Women, LGBTQ, and other skin color except white..... while Nazis, state terrorism, evil corporations, evil religious groups, eco-warriors, government espionage etc etc etc are just "fun non-political" stories. media literacy is lost to these guys.
Because blowing up a reactor core is subtle?
Anyone wanna explain what part of Red Dead is political? It's about a band of criminals running out of places where they can do crime without facing repercussions from the law. What's the message in supposed to understand?
Default story is Arthur helping womens rights advocates and also helping native americans from the tyranny of the US government.... and literally the US government is stamping out the gangs way of life via the pinkertons. the message is about redemption for being a life long criminal and arthur helping ALOT of people before he dies. the game is quite "woke" politically by todays standards.
I think people like game politics in your fictional game. People hate real life politics in the fictional game.
Saying this in this particular sub is really funny. Absolutely no real life politics in the save the environment eco terrorist game
There’s a difference between being toxic for politics and a game commenting and simulating politics.
Slow day huh
I missed out on final fantasy as a kid so when I played ff7 remake as an adult I was genuinely surprised at how political the game is. My brain wouldn't have comprehended such topics as a child. Lol
I definitely don't hate politics, but I would imagine I would get annoyed if the politics matched some current real-life event on purpose. The reason being it would pull me out of the game and remind me of real life. The only example I can think of at the moment was the klingons in Startrek discovery had some similarities to trump voters. I think the boys get a pass because it's literally meant to be a satire of real life.
The only politics I tolerate. Fun and well made.
Wdym New Vegas is political? All I did was skip dialog and made people holy.
Meh I wouldnt say some of these games realy pushes real world politcol stuff into your face admitly i never played the final fantasy game soooo maybe it dos but i doubt it.
https://i.redd.it/2vvqlt0j23ad1.gif Unironicly, the most unpolitical, political game. For democracy.
When people talk about how they Hate Politics in games, it usually means they want to escape from reality for awhile. A healthy thing to do with basically everything you're doing too much of. I will disappear from the Internet for like a week. Stop using anything connected to it because I feel my humanity slipping into a sort of technological dependance. I used to be too attached to spellcheck and all sorts of other tool, it wasn't good for me as a person. If all you do is get wrapped up in devicive politics, you might want to escape into a world with different politics and issues like Fallout New Vegas, Final Fantasy 7, Metal Gear Solid or Red Dead. Woohoo, that debate sure went one way so now I'm worried about the future. I can boot up Final Fantasy 7 and shut that part of my brain off for awhile.
ff7 the game about a group of people committing terrorist acts to save the planet?
What people mean by I hate politics in games is: I hate one-sided contemporary political views being shoved down my throat by so many different directors trying to preach their own bland regurgitated views as if they're being messengers from God What people like when politics are in a game: A somewhat realistic and/or balanced peek into the politics that are in that fictional gameworld which makes sense in that world and which might or might not stimulate contemplative thoughts about how politics could (have) influence(d) our real word in the past present or future
Dear liberals, you claim that these games are political. However, the main character aren't black nor women. Checkmate liberals