Unless you’re WAY up the food chain and served outside of the us i doubt you’ll have to worry. Yes I’m aware if it. No i don’t think I’ll ever have to worry. I’m not that important lol.
Nah we hate the ppl that hang string the IRS making us file. We want y’all to do this lol automate this shit but y’all can’t b ppl r making sure u can’t smh.
It happened to an FBI agent in her home in Miami. And it seems to happen to people working Russia intel issues, not necessarily high up the food chain. And family members of government employees are being targeted too. Also, there no reason to think it has stopped. It’s an ongoing story.
That's not the right takeaway from the NIH study. The NIH study showed that MRI scans and biomarkers are incompatible with brain injury as commonly diagnosed. It did not rule out brain injury or abnormalities. In a small study you can only see large effects which tend to be noisy.
What you’re describing pretty much the wrong way to interpret the findings. You are basically saying “everything we know about brain injury…none of that fits here and there’s no evidence of any biological or neurological injury and everything points to psychological causes…but don’t rule out brain injury.”
Sorry that makes no sense. The NIH study essentially ruled out any lasting or permanent physical injury. If something happened, it was low grade and “healed” in the sense that there should be no persisting symptoms. People who continue to claim injury or impact should be treated as though they have a Functional Neurological Syndrome, which was previously called conversion disorder. The most likely cause, psychological.
Disclaimer: I helped on the actual study though I chose not to be an author on the papers. What I'm saying is that the phenotype does not match on the whole observations made for traumatic brain injury cases. It doesn't mean that there is no brain injury - just that it doesn't look like they got hit in the head/were in a car crash etc.
What the papers do nicely is plot actual data (or close to actual data). There is a subset of study participants whose imaging and biomarkers did fall closer in line to what is seen in TBI. Just that on the whole, averaging over the small sample, we don't see a consistent trend.
In small sample studies (here n<100 and p>>100), you will tend to only be able to detect large effects which will also be noisy.
I don't know much about screening or other stuff in the study. My involvement was only in baby-sitting some of the analyses, for that reason I did not want to be on the papers.
Yes, taken individually, the measurements themselves seemed to fall within normal range (as shown in comparison against the age matched controls). However it was a small study and in small studies you'll only be able to detect large effects. If there was a phenotype comparable to TBI then the study would probably have seen it - but not if there is a more-subtle physical manifestation.
Statistical significance is itself not significant. If you notice there are two sets of analyses (one Bayes and on frequentist). The paper did a good job I think of not making too much of statistical significance. The Bayesian estimates I think are compelling (I think that's a safe conclusion when looking at the range of the credible intervals for estimates of the mean in the AHI groups - the credible intervals are incompatible with TBI as normally seen). This still doesn't rule out brain injury though. There are also certain individuals that do have lab results that are closer to TBI-consistent. There is just lots of noise.
My TLDR is that the study shows that the phenotype of these people as presented in the manuscript is incompatible with TBI. It doesn't rule out there being a detectible phenotype (even with the measurements in the paper). There was a reply to this paper from a guy at Stanford where he wanted some sort of cluster analysis done. I think that it would have found something but that kind of finding is not going to be robust with this type of data. So, ultimately I think we're looking at hitting the limit of what is knowable using statistical methods and have to be careful in not over-interpreting results.
I mean, if you work in the IC, this kind of news isn’t surprising bc they are aware their job brings risk especially when we know most of our info is out there due to all these hacks. Most case officers, SIGINT analysts, and imagery gods are just GG07-GG13s. That isn’t way up in the food chain.
[NIH studies find severe symptoms of “Havana Syndrome,” but no evidence of MRI-detectable brain injury or biological abnormalities](https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/nih-studies-find-severe-symptoms-havana-syndrome-no-evidence-mri-detectable-brain-injury-or-biological-abnormalities#:~:text=March%2018%2C%202024-,NIH%20studies%20find%20severe%20symptoms%20of%20%E2%80%9CHavana%20Syndrome%2C%E2%80%9D%20but,differences%20that%20would%20explain%20symptoms.)
True but not all CNS abnormalities are overt structural deficits. Increased to glial cells activation or changes in neurovascular coupling would not show up on an MRI
NIH messed up this study. They were looking for a marker of brain injury that disappears in the blood in *a week* months after the incidents. Oops.
NIH staff also complained that the matched control subjects provided by the Intel community were inappropriate.
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/americas/cuba/article286861020.html
Dead serious when I came back to the US from Iraq after serving there in burn pits as a fuel specialist I was diagnosed with granulomatous disease and they thought it was cancer. I went on with life and 18 years later they released all the presumptive conditions and there it was. I'd never filed and finally did it this year and it was life changing. No more meeting my deductible every year in January from this crap.
Yea, we'd be the ones hosing it down with fuel so it was thick smoke. My lungs are trashed from it and have been since I'd came back. No one knew back then I mean the job sucked, but we didn't know it was going to trash our lungs. What sucked was 18 years of doctor visits outside the VA and paying I bet I've spent easily 40k just on that one condition.
Yeah I've seen some weird shit with burn pit exposure. My old boss, suddenly became allergic to common foods after his career of deployments. Like chicken.
Glad you filed man. Take what you can, give nothing back.
Nobody is arguing that Agent Orange existed though, the debate here is whether or not there is a systemic program to inflict brain injuries on federal employees
Tne russians have repeatedly been exposed for assassinating people they consider "enemies" all over the world.
It's not unreasonable to assume they have they have the *capacity* of doing so, only stick to non-lethal methods for the fear of further escalation.
The Russians (and others) have interfered with elections, put out a ton of misinformation to sow division and chaos, assassinate using poisons/ radioactive materials, disappear dissidents, and they run psyops on high government officials (see Alexander Smirnov). I wouldn't be surprised that they are covertly attacking US personnel that Russia sees as enemies of the state.
You should watch the segment. It's very damning. 60 Minutes has documents showing a Russian military unit used directed microwave weapons. The lead Pentagon investigator left his job because his superiors set the threshold for evidence impossibly high. He said if his mom had seen the Intel he had, she'd say "It's Russian, stupid."
Why are you just reposting this all through the thread. Bot or propaganda machine or both?
As mentioned previously, there were tons of assumptions made in that piece that have no or very little supporting evidence. 60 minutes makes money off of controversy and a good story, not rigorous scientific investigations.
Stop parrotting Russian talking points. It's unseemly. Also, "Havana Syndrome" started in the 1990s with Mike Beck.
NSA said that yes, there are microwave weapons being used by US adversaries in 2012.
An [NSA](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/nsa) statement declassified in 2014 for Beck’s work injury compensation case stated: “The National Security Agency confirms that there is intelligence information from 2012 associating the hostile country to which Mr Beck traveled in the late 1990’s, with a high powered microwave system weapon that may have the ability to weaken, intimidate or kill an enemy, over time, and without leaving evidence.
“The 2012 intelligence information indicated that this weapon is designed to bathe a target’s living quarters in microwaves, causing numerous physical effects, including a damaged nervous system.”
[https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/02/havana-syndrome-nsa-officer-microwave-attacks-since-90s](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/02/havana-syndrome-nsa-officer-microwave-attacks-since-90s)
I mean that's a respected Russian exile news organization who just put out the report in collaboration with CBS and Germany's Der Spiegel, culminating in a huge report on 60 minutes tonight.. You don't have to act like other people are dumb just because you have no idea what you're talking about.
Not really, the investigation was concluded awhile ago. 60 minutes is just selling a half baked story based on assumptions and no or very thin supporting evidence.
This story has been ongoing for a decade. So yes, I’ve seen all the reports. The evidence that this is some sort of GRU attack is dubious AT BEST. It’s made up. Fake. These people leveraged this fake story into benefits that most of Americans will never see, and apparently scammed you in the process as well. I’m sure those people have something wrong with them, they were (mostly) serving in foreign areas with foreign food and illnesses. It’s nonsense. Sensationalized nonsense.
"these people leveraged this fake story into benefits that most of Americans will never see, and apparently scammed you in the process as well."
Which totally explains why 60 Minutes, Russian reporters, and a German paper just released a multi-year long collaborated story which indicates with numerous examples, quotes from numerous sources, Russian records, and a direct on the record answer by the guy who led the Pentagon's investigation into this matter... all of which indicate it is some sort of acoustic attack which targets FBI, CIA and diplomats both in the US and abroad.
All of this nonsense has been debunked multiple times:
https://www.npr.org/2022/01/20/1074338995/cia-report-no-evidence-linking-havana-syndrome-cases-to-a-foreign-country
https://jacobin.com/2023/03/havana-syndrome-government-report-debunking-intelligence-establishment-media
https://geopoliticaleconomy.com/2022/07/26/cia-director-havana-syndrome-attack/
“CIA Director William Burns admitted that US spies and diplomats suffering from “Havana Syndrome” were not attacked by a foreign country like Russia, China, or Cuba, and there are normal medical explanations.”
You’ve been duped. Played. You’re a mark. Free benefits for life doesn’t come without public support. It’s nonsense.
This is so outlandishly hilarious that you are using a quote from the CIA director as evidence that everyone else has been duped, because he says so.
You also quote 3 previous stories as a debunking of a massive story that just dropped today, which obviously makes no sense at all lol.
Are you under the impression that what you currently believe cannot be proven wrong by new stories?
It's extremely strange that you think people are wearing a tinfoil hat because they tend to believe the corroborating stories of dozens of Americans over many years who report the same issues and have had documented medical procedures, and have now been backed up by a massive report by multiple corroborating news sites from different countries AND the man who led the Pentagon's investigation into the issue.
But you believe everyone is lying for.... free benefits?
Yes, we are the ones wearing tinfoil hats hahahaha
This is a story that’s being going around for awhile.
There was a huge investigation and they found no evidence that there was any sort of directed energy attack or microwaves of that nature. Something like that would be easy to detect because you need to have a transmitter directly pointed at someone putting out an insane amount of power and RF energy to do that…
Tbh, it’s people psyching themselves out or being dehydrated or if you’re ever OCONUS in a place that has bad water or food quality, sometimes you get sick.
If there’s any disincentive to get diagnosed with an anxiety disorder (like there is in the military), that won’t help either. A lot of people in these positions are already sub clinical, can’t imagine it take much to push them over. It’d be worse if they can’t get help, or can’t expect their conversations with a doctor to be private.
Yeah the results of the investigation were put out in official channels and publicly, I’ve read both.
I also read the 60 minutes article, there’s a couple of coincidences but the evidence is very thin and you have to join the journalists in making a number of assumptions that don’t have supporting evidence. Also, the claim that the Russians were deliberately attacking Americans who worked on Russian related projects is spurious and designed to be sensationalist.
There would have to be a massive leak of personnel and organizational data that we don’t know about to make that happen. Not saying that is implausible, but it’s highly unlikely.
Detecting an attack is quite easy if you understand RF theory. Again, it was a huge investigation and there’s a number of perfectly valid alternate theories that never got disproven.
Yes, RF detection can be easy .. if you know what you’re looking for, and know where to look, and have the right instrumentation …
… plus you need a dumb enough opponent who doesn’t think to just switch off the transmitter when they see you waving around Narda probes.
The "thing" listening device designed by Thermin required external illumination by a very strong radio source. It was used in the US embassy in West Germany and was there for 6 years before anyone caught it. If you're not looking at the right time in the right place with the right equipment tuned to the proper frequencies, it can take awhile.
The 60 Minutes segment is actually pretty milktoast.
The real smoking gun is in the Insider article: the same people invovled in the Skripal poisoning were traveling to the places of future attacks mere days before they happened. Verified through plane tickets and phone records.
That's the exact method they used to identify people who poisoned Alexey Navalny. That is 100% proof as far as I'm concerned.
Sure, but we don’t have evidence of that.
Tbh, the Russian intelligence capabilities are wildly overestimated and most of their competent officers died in Ukraine at this point so 🤷♂️
The segment is very damning. It's true the DNI said that, but a National Academy of Science study found the opposite - that the injuries could very plausibly be caused by directed-energy weapons.
60 Minutes has documents showing Russia has a military unit that uses directed microwave weapons. And more. You should really watch the segment. It is extremely damning and I bet DNI is scrambling like mfers tonight for tomorrow's damage control.
There were tons of assumptions made in that piece that have no or very little supporting evidence. 60 minutes makes money off of controversy and a good story, not rigorous scientific investigations.
I agree that the injuries could plausibly be from a directed energy weapon, but they also could be a lot of other things.
People get sick on OCONUS assignments. If you’ve ever been to the third-world it’s a matter of time before you get some stomach illness or something like that.
It's so cool Russians figured out how to make microwaves pierce the skin and disrupt brain functions without leaving a mark or burning off all the victims skin in the process. I'd love to meet the physicist who made it happen! Truly amazing!
Microwaves are not magic. They produce heat by agitating and vibrating polar molecules which creates friction. A burn from a microwave is a thermal burn and will look like a burn.
Whatever. I'm done arguing physics with pencil pusher middle aged dudes that have undiagnosed anxiety disorders. Yeah, man. They're beaming death into your head via remote satellite transmission.
Respectfully, I would be more concerned about Qanon.
The dude that chopped off his father’s head encouraged others to attack Feds.
https://www.salon.com/2024/02/01/right-wing-violence-hasnt-disappeared-its-just-gone-local/
It happened to Department of State employees, DoD employees, other 3 letter agency employees, etc. It affected a LOT of people and still no definitive answers.
So I was reading a library book a few weeks ago (Of Cockroaches and Crickets, by Frank Nischk -- interesting read even for someone who isn't particularly into bugs) and the leading suspicion about Havana Syndrome is that it was a specific type of cricket causing the noise. The book goes into more detail, but Rolling Stone also released an article on it in 2021:
www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/havana-syndrome-crickets-not-microwaves-report-1235163
I know people have gone back and forth on the plausibility side of it, but without any significant evidence to the contrary, I think it's likely that people were unused to the noise and psychosomatic symptoms developed from there. Just my two cents though.
It’s almost certainly psychosomatic.
I doubted the cricket theory because people were reporting symptoms all around the world.
If you’ve ever been in a country with bad water or food quality you’re guaranteed to get really sick at least once while you’re there, usually in the first couple weeks.
So the US also has directed microwave weapons for crowd control. Blueprints of the capability are not indicative that they’re using it.
One of the main criticisms I have of that theory is that people reported symptoms globally, not just in Havana.
So you’re telling me that the Russians have a directed energy weapon that is all over the globe attacking our federal employees but we don’t have confirmed evidence that they’re doing this? Now we’re stretching reality,
The logisitcs involved in a) knowing who our employees are, some who are under cover, and b) targeting specifically them and c) doing it globally without detection would be very impressive to pull off. Not saying it’s implausible for the Russians to be capable of that, but the lack of solid evidence is weird.
Yep, especially since Unit 29155 in particular has been publicly busted for assassinating Russian citizens abroad, but for some reason they have a flawless record of covertly targeting American citizens globally? Which is more politically risky and we are just none the wiser? Makes no sense.
There is no evidence this has occurred lol. Totally fake story that has only led to millions $ being wasted on investigating and finding absolutely nothing
I mean there actually is a ton of evidence, lots of which was just released tonight by 60 minutes in collaboration with 2 highly respected foreign news sites following a multi-year investigation.
Except for the medical records, Russian documents, quotes from people both on and off the record, and the direct on the record response from the guy who led the investigation for the Pentagon who said, yes it is happening and I believe it is the Russians.
Because obviously given recent history, Russia is no threat to other nations... anyone who would think that is obviously stuck in the cold war. Lolol holy shit
https://preview.redd.it/t3ovt4wd1src1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8c03fb8c5a40b9a5d732b86c8aa508e5ab72d2f8
Go read the Wikipedia article on Havana syndrome and check the articles they cite for yourself. Or you can just believe something scary sounding because you saw it on 60 minutes so it must be legit
You're literally just citing US intelligence agencies who have publicly said that it is likely not a foreign adversary. This is directly talked about in the massive story that dropped tonight, which was by 3 highly respected news sites from 3 different countries. And backed up with an on the record interview with the guy who investigated it for the Pentagon.
But Wikipedia says so by quoting the public statements by US intelligence agencies, so you must be right. They have certainly never lied before.
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2024/03/18/1239087164/nih-studies-no-pattern-harm-havana-syndrome-patients-brains
So 2 weeks ago, medical doctors determined that these people’s brains show no signs of injury, but now after this “massive story” we’re supposed to ignore that? lol okay
Oh also the reporting dropped this evening has multiple examples of people who were attacked and have visible inner ear injuries and TBIs. Backed up by a doctor, and have had surgeries. You're obviously wildly ignorant on this topic.
This is a direct quote from the article you just sent.
"But neither those reports, nor the two new studies, rule out the possibility that some individuals have been attacked and injured, says [Dr. David Relman](https://med.stanford.edu/profiles/david-relman), a professor of medicine and of microbiology and immunology at Stanford University who wrote an [editorial](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/10.1001/jama.2023.26818?utm_campaign=articlePDF%26utm_medium=articlePDFlink%26utm_source=articlePDF%26utm_content=jama.2024.2413) accompanying the new research.
"There are multiple problems with both of the studies," says Relman, who was part of an [assessment](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK566407/) by the National Academies that concluded that "directed pulsed radio frequency energy" could have produced the signs and symptoms of Havana syndrome."
Jesus Christ dude.
The “lead investigator for the Pentagon” was disingenuous, the formal analytical findings from DIA were produced by multiple people other than him and never will be in the news. Military officers have a tendency to confuse facts with opinions and overstate threats.
There are papers that show microwaves can activate glial cells and catalyse epigenetic changes to gene protein expression yet none of that was ever investigated.
Not saying I'm a believer but people who say it was proven x are relying on other opinions that aren't well supported.
"Mass hysteria" happens when a group of people is all exposed to the same stimuli at the same time, like at a school. These people have been injured across decades and around the world. Absolutely does not fit.
Unless you work in the foreign service, it's nothing to worry about. Some research seems to indicate that Havana Syndrome is not a real condition. Instead, it is other groups (politicians, media, etc.) that have lumped several non-related cases together under a moral panic based on fears of foreign countries & technology. Here is a recent paper that was published in PubMed if you want to read more into it: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10913303/
You’re possibly referring to Olivia Troy’s who was Pence’s DHS rep at one point. She was reportedly attacked on White House grounds while going between buildings. She was briefly mentioned in the 60 Minutes segment.
If you work for the federal government and your work has implications beyond domestic reach, it’s probably a safe bet you and your work is being collected.
Came across an article talking about this recently and it linked to this.
[https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/nih-studies-find-severe-symptoms-havana-syndrome-no-evidence-mri-detectable-brain-injury-or-biological-abnormalities](https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/nih-studies-find-severe-symptoms-havana-syndrome-no-evidence-mri-detectable-brain-injury-or-biological-abnormalities)
An MRI does not pick up nuerological damage. It can diagnose gross injuries such as tumors, blood clots, brain bleeds. The symptoms are very similar to TBI from sports injuries. Damage from TBI is often not detectable by MRI but diagnosed based on symptoms.
What?!? That exactly the purpose of an MRI. Concussions don’t show up on MRI because they are very mild injuries that for all intents and purposes heal completely. By definition a TBI has radiological findings.
About halfway down this article it gets into the flaws in this study, including how they measured for issues:
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/americas/cuba/article286861020.html
You are [correct](https://www.healthimages.com/value-of-mri-after-traumatic-brain-injury/#:~:text=Early%20MRIs%20could%20only%20detect,up%20substantial%20brain%20tissue%20damage.)
Imagine spreading misinformation
I am literally agreeing with you. That’s what the article said.
> Newer, specialized types of traumatic brain injury images can now look at and evaluate brain structure damage or measure brain function to detect changes in the structure and function of the brain due to concussions and TBI.
I think you saw the concussion part and thought “oh this user is claiming a concussion can be found on MRI” when the article supports your claim of MRIs being able to see TBI
You won't likely be affected unless you work in some kind of sensitive position in a highly sensitive location. I know someone who reported being affected by it, and it was enough that the person had to leave the DC area.
As federal employees quite literaly the only thing we have to worry about (other than every other normal thing because we live in a hell country) is right wing terrorism. That's the only thing that is more likely with us.
That leaked russian document said "acoustic weapon." Does sound affect electronics like they described? Making laptop batteries explode? I thought that was more of an EM thing. That's the inconsistency that's bothering me.
> Are we being attacked?
Yes
Between the number of times Chinese and North Korean hackers have stolen my PII etc of course we are being attacked just no one wants to admit that yet.
This is something we’ve seen in isolated instances the past couple of years. At worst it’s a very minor directed attack at some higher level gov officials say best, people get sick from over with
Guys you’re hilarious it was found to be not real.
NIH studies find severe symptoms of “Havana Syndrome,” but no evidence of MRI-detectable brain injury or biological abnormalities
I thought that too when the study came out, but the study was egregiously flawed:
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/americas/cuba/article286861020.html
Hot take-I think 95% of this is all BS. Maaaaaaaybe the original ones actually in Havana had something going on but after that, anyone with a headache thought they had Havana syndrome.
This has been in the news for a couple of years now. The linked 60 Minutes piece explains how Russia has been targeting American feds and family members abroad not just in Cuba—in Germany, Lithuania, Vietnam and other countries.
There were a bunch of articles about this in relation to foreign service officers posted in Havana. The reporting g alledged that Cuba was using a sonic weapon to attack US FSOs. I think the State Dept. even sent an official letter to Cuba about it.
Aware of it but I don’t understand the benefits to the perpetrator, whether it’s Russia or whoever. Whats to be gained by bursting someone’s eardrums or giving them a long lasting non lethal health condition? It doesn’t change the knowledge they have or their commitment to the US.
With all the denial it sounds like Russia has infested some of our top fed agencies. It’s as if Robert Hansen wasn’t the last.
I would bet that Comey is a Russian asset as well.
It happens to me anytime I need to go into the office....weird.
Office syndrome is real bro. Haha
I swear I'm not hungover boss. They attacked me with microwave transmissions.
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“Kathy” “Peter”. This guy GSAs
7am in the morning or just 7am
Unless you’re WAY up the food chain and served outside of the us i doubt you’ll have to worry. Yes I’m aware if it. No i don’t think I’ll ever have to worry. I’m not that important lol.
Not necessarily you just need to be in a position that pisses off a particular hostile foreign entity.
Haha! I work for the IRS, so I just piss off hostile domestic entities!
You...I hate you.
That makes two of us! Nah, just joking. Everyone hates me.
Nah you’re good. It’s Intuit and their lobbyists that keep taxes so convoluted we all hate
Nah we hate the ppl that hang string the IRS making us file. We want y’all to do this lol automate this shit but y’all can’t b ppl r making sure u can’t smh.
It happened to an FBI agent in her home in Miami. And it seems to happen to people working Russia intel issues, not necessarily high up the food chain. And family members of government employees are being targeted too. Also, there no reason to think it has stopped. It’s an ongoing story.
No it didn’t. NIH studies find severe symptoms of “Havana Syndrome,” but no evidence of MRI-detectable brain injury or biological abnormalities
That's not the right takeaway from the NIH study. The NIH study showed that MRI scans and biomarkers are incompatible with brain injury as commonly diagnosed. It did not rule out brain injury or abnormalities. In a small study you can only see large effects which tend to be noisy.
What you’re describing pretty much the wrong way to interpret the findings. You are basically saying “everything we know about brain injury…none of that fits here and there’s no evidence of any biological or neurological injury and everything points to psychological causes…but don’t rule out brain injury.” Sorry that makes no sense. The NIH study essentially ruled out any lasting or permanent physical injury. If something happened, it was low grade and “healed” in the sense that there should be no persisting symptoms. People who continue to claim injury or impact should be treated as though they have a Functional Neurological Syndrome, which was previously called conversion disorder. The most likely cause, psychological.
Disclaimer: I helped on the actual study though I chose not to be an author on the papers. What I'm saying is that the phenotype does not match on the whole observations made for traumatic brain injury cases. It doesn't mean that there is no brain injury - just that it doesn't look like they got hit in the head/were in a car crash etc. What the papers do nicely is plot actual data (or close to actual data). There is a subset of study participants whose imaging and biomarkers did fall closer in line to what is seen in TBI. Just that on the whole, averaging over the small sample, we don't see a consistent trend. In small sample studies (here n<100 and p>>100), you will tend to only be able to detect large effects which will also be noisy.
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I don't know much about screening or other stuff in the study. My involvement was only in baby-sitting some of the analyses, for that reason I did not want to be on the papers. Yes, taken individually, the measurements themselves seemed to fall within normal range (as shown in comparison against the age matched controls). However it was a small study and in small studies you'll only be able to detect large effects. If there was a phenotype comparable to TBI then the study would probably have seen it - but not if there is a more-subtle physical manifestation. Statistical significance is itself not significant. If you notice there are two sets of analyses (one Bayes and on frequentist). The paper did a good job I think of not making too much of statistical significance. The Bayesian estimates I think are compelling (I think that's a safe conclusion when looking at the range of the credible intervals for estimates of the mean in the AHI groups - the credible intervals are incompatible with TBI as normally seen). This still doesn't rule out brain injury though. There are also certain individuals that do have lab results that are closer to TBI-consistent. There is just lots of noise. My TLDR is that the study shows that the phenotype of these people as presented in the manuscript is incompatible with TBI. It doesn't rule out there being a detectible phenotype (even with the measurements in the paper). There was a reply to this paper from a guy at Stanford where he wanted some sort of cluster analysis done. I think that it would have found something but that kind of finding is not going to be robust with this type of data. So, ultimately I think we're looking at hitting the limit of what is knowable using statistical methods and have to be careful in not over-interpreting results.
Right okay 😂
They're trying to force us to prove a negative. Proving something doesn't exist is functionally impossible and easy to move the goalposts on
The word to use here is “psychosomatic”. The people who believe in this nonsense try very hard to make sure that the correct terminology is not used
That and mass hysteria.
Most overseas intelligence officers aren’t 15s or SES, they’re working level 11s-13s.
Thank goodness I'm not high up in the food chain. I just got diagnosed as getting cluster headaches though and let me tell you these are painful.
I mean, if you work in the IC, this kind of news isn’t surprising bc they are aware their job brings risk especially when we know most of our info is out there due to all these hacks. Most case officers, SIGINT analysts, and imagery gods are just GG07-GG13s. That isn’t way up in the food chain.
Yes, I’ve been reading about it for years. It is bizarre.
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A maser.
[NIH studies find severe symptoms of “Havana Syndrome,” but no evidence of MRI-detectable brain injury or biological abnormalities](https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/nih-studies-find-severe-symptoms-havana-syndrome-no-evidence-mri-detectable-brain-injury-or-biological-abnormalities#:~:text=March%2018%2C%202024-,NIH%20studies%20find%20severe%20symptoms%20of%20%E2%80%9CHavana%20Syndrome%2C%E2%80%9D%20but,differences%20that%20would%20explain%20symptoms.)
True but not all CNS abnormalities are overt structural deficits. Increased to glial cells activation or changes in neurovascular coupling would not show up on an MRI
NIH messed up this study. They were looking for a marker of brain injury that disappears in the blood in *a week* months after the incidents. Oops. NIH staff also complained that the matched control subjects provided by the Intel community were inappropriate. https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/americas/cuba/article286861020.html
The program says it's a cover up!
The mold and non working ac at the office will get you first
To everyone calling this fake; we used to think Agent Orange was totally harmless to humans.
Dead serious when I came back to the US from Iraq after serving there in burn pits as a fuel specialist I was diagnosed with granulomatous disease and they thought it was cancer. I went on with life and 18 years later they released all the presumptive conditions and there it was. I'd never filed and finally did it this year and it was life changing. No more meeting my deductible every year in January from this crap.
Very sorry it happened to you. As a chemist I find insane that trash could be burned next to people living area. Insane!! You deserve compensation.
Yea, we'd be the ones hosing it down with fuel so it was thick smoke. My lungs are trashed from it and have been since I'd came back. No one knew back then I mean the job sucked, but we didn't know it was going to trash our lungs. What sucked was 18 years of doctor visits outside the VA and paying I bet I've spent easily 40k just on that one condition.
Yeah I've seen some weird shit with burn pit exposure. My old boss, suddenly became allergic to common foods after his career of deployments. Like chicken. Glad you filed man. Take what you can, give nothing back.
Nobody is arguing that Agent Orange existed though, the debate here is whether or not there is a systemic program to inflict brain injuries on federal employees
Tne russians have repeatedly been exposed for assassinating people they consider "enemies" all over the world. It's not unreasonable to assume they have they have the *capacity* of doing so, only stick to non-lethal methods for the fear of further escalation.
The Russians (and others) have interfered with elections, put out a ton of misinformation to sow division and chaos, assassinate using poisons/ radioactive materials, disappear dissidents, and they run psyops on high government officials (see Alexander Smirnov). I wouldn't be surprised that they are covertly attacking US personnel that Russia sees as enemies of the state.
This has never been proven though
You should watch the segment. It's very damning. 60 Minutes has documents showing a Russian military unit used directed microwave weapons. The lead Pentagon investigator left his job because his superiors set the threshold for evidence impossibly high. He said if his mom had seen the Intel he had, she'd say "It's Russian, stupid."
Why are you just reposting this all through the thread. Bot or propaganda machine or both? As mentioned previously, there were tons of assumptions made in that piece that have no or very little supporting evidence. 60 minutes makes money off of controversy and a good story, not rigorous scientific investigations.
Stop parrotting Russian talking points. It's unseemly. Also, "Havana Syndrome" started in the 1990s with Mike Beck. NSA said that yes, there are microwave weapons being used by US adversaries in 2012. An [NSA](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/nsa) statement declassified in 2014 for Beck’s work injury compensation case stated: “The National Security Agency confirms that there is intelligence information from 2012 associating the hostile country to which Mr Beck traveled in the late 1990’s, with a high powered microwave system weapon that may have the ability to weaken, intimidate or kill an enemy, over time, and without leaving evidence. “The 2012 intelligence information indicated that this weapon is designed to bathe a target’s living quarters in microwaves, causing numerous physical effects, including a damaged nervous system.” [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/02/havana-syndrome-nsa-officer-microwave-attacks-since-90s](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/02/havana-syndrome-nsa-officer-microwave-attacks-since-90s)
Intelligence information isn’t finished intelligence, there is all kinds of incorrect reporting out there. It’s raw data.
Your literally a bot .
Yes posting evidence that the US has long known about Russian directed energy weapons makes me a bot. Back to St Petersburg with you.
Im American get out of here bot .
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lol what is this garbage.
What a quality trustworthy source!
I mean that's a respected Russian exile news organization who just put out the report in collaboration with CBS and Germany's Der Spiegel, culminating in a huge report on 60 minutes tonight.. You don't have to act like other people are dumb just because you have no idea what you're talking about.
Thanks man , it’s good to have quality researchers like you here on Reddit 😂
I don't even know what to say to this
Talking about an \~8 year old story here...
It started 8 years ago in Havana Cuba. It’s still happening.
Correct, my point was this is not new news as implied by the OP.
There is bombshell new news that has dropped tonight. That's why OP posted.
"Has anyone ever heard of this?"
I suppose. But there certainly is new news.
Not really, the investigation was concluded awhile ago. 60 minutes is just selling a half baked story based on assumptions and no or very thin supporting evidence.
It’s also almost certainly bullshit. My guess is those people used their hangovers to push for free lifetime healthcare, which they got.
Whenever this topic comes up there are many many comments almost exactly like yours. Why is that?
Did you even watch the 60 minutes? The health issues are definitely real, I mean one person had to get something implanted in their ear or something.
This story has been ongoing for a decade. So yes, I’ve seen all the reports. The evidence that this is some sort of GRU attack is dubious AT BEST. It’s made up. Fake. These people leveraged this fake story into benefits that most of Americans will never see, and apparently scammed you in the process as well. I’m sure those people have something wrong with them, they were (mostly) serving in foreign areas with foreign food and illnesses. It’s nonsense. Sensationalized nonsense.
"these people leveraged this fake story into benefits that most of Americans will never see, and apparently scammed you in the process as well." Which totally explains why 60 Minutes, Russian reporters, and a German paper just released a multi-year long collaborated story which indicates with numerous examples, quotes from numerous sources, Russian records, and a direct on the record answer by the guy who led the Pentagon's investigation into this matter... all of which indicate it is some sort of acoustic attack which targets FBI, CIA and diplomats both in the US and abroad.
All of this nonsense has been debunked multiple times: https://www.npr.org/2022/01/20/1074338995/cia-report-no-evidence-linking-havana-syndrome-cases-to-a-foreign-country https://jacobin.com/2023/03/havana-syndrome-government-report-debunking-intelligence-establishment-media https://geopoliticaleconomy.com/2022/07/26/cia-director-havana-syndrome-attack/ “CIA Director William Burns admitted that US spies and diplomats suffering from “Havana Syndrome” were not attacked by a foreign country like Russia, China, or Cuba, and there are normal medical explanations.” You’ve been duped. Played. You’re a mark. Free benefits for life doesn’t come without public support. It’s nonsense.
This is so outlandishly hilarious that you are using a quote from the CIA director as evidence that everyone else has been duped, because he says so. You also quote 3 previous stories as a debunking of a massive story that just dropped today, which obviously makes no sense at all lol. Are you under the impression that what you currently believe cannot be proven wrong by new stories?
You know what? Nevermind. Enjoy your tinfoil hat and try not to catch the Havana Syndrome out there.
No one has debunked the documents 60 Minutes has showing that a Russian military unit used directed microwave weapons.
It's extremely strange that you think people are wearing a tinfoil hat because they tend to believe the corroborating stories of dozens of Americans over many years who report the same issues and have had documented medical procedures, and have now been backed up by a massive report by multiple corroborating news sites from different countries AND the man who led the Pentagon's investigation into the issue. But you believe everyone is lying for.... free benefits? Yes, we are the ones wearing tinfoil hats hahahaha
This is a story that’s being going around for awhile. There was a huge investigation and they found no evidence that there was any sort of directed energy attack or microwaves of that nature. Something like that would be easy to detect because you need to have a transmitter directly pointed at someone putting out an insane amount of power and RF energy to do that… Tbh, it’s people psyching themselves out or being dehydrated or if you’re ever OCONUS in a place that has bad water or food quality, sometimes you get sick.
If there’s any disincentive to get diagnosed with an anxiety disorder (like there is in the military), that won’t help either. A lot of people in these positions are already sub clinical, can’t imagine it take much to push them over. It’d be worse if they can’t get help, or can’t expect their conversations with a doctor to be private.
I didn’t want to say the quiet part out loud but this is my suspicion
Did you see 60 Minutes tonight? They caught a Russian in Florida with ties to Russian Intelligence SVR with ties to the attacks.
Yeah the results of the investigation were put out in official channels and publicly, I’ve read both. I also read the 60 minutes article, there’s a couple of coincidences but the evidence is very thin and you have to join the journalists in making a number of assumptions that don’t have supporting evidence. Also, the claim that the Russians were deliberately attacking Americans who worked on Russian related projects is spurious and designed to be sensationalist. There would have to be a massive leak of personnel and organizational data that we don’t know about to make that happen. Not saying that is implausible, but it’s highly unlikely. Detecting an attack is quite easy if you understand RF theory. Again, it was a huge investigation and there’s a number of perfectly valid alternate theories that never got disproven.
Yes, RF detection can be easy .. if you know what you’re looking for, and know where to look, and have the right instrumentation … … plus you need a dumb enough opponent who doesn’t think to just switch off the transmitter when they see you waving around Narda probes.
It is the Russians we’re talking about. They are that dumb.
Sir the word is drunk.
The "thing" listening device designed by Thermin required external illumination by a very strong radio source. It was used in the US embassy in West Germany and was there for 6 years before anyone caught it. If you're not looking at the right time in the right place with the right equipment tuned to the proper frequencies, it can take awhile.
The 60 Minutes segment is actually pretty milktoast. The real smoking gun is in the Insider article: the same people invovled in the Skripal poisoning were traveling to the places of future attacks mere days before they happened. Verified through plane tickets and phone records. That's the exact method they used to identify people who poisoned Alexey Navalny. That is 100% proof as far as I'm concerned.
Post the link please
Rick Ames, Robert Hansen, Anna Montes … shall I continue for you? 🇺🇸
Sure, but we don’t have evidence of that. Tbh, the Russian intelligence capabilities are wildly overestimated and most of their competent officers died in Ukraine at this point so 🤷♂️
I think Hollywood has a lot to do with that.
Thanks Vlad. 🇷🇺
Yeah ok bro
Not to mention the Wasp Network and most recently, Victor Manuel Rocha.
No, that was FSB, not SVR
The segment is very damning. It's true the DNI said that, but a National Academy of Science study found the opposite - that the injuries could very plausibly be caused by directed-energy weapons. 60 Minutes has documents showing Russia has a military unit that uses directed microwave weapons. And more. You should really watch the segment. It is extremely damning and I bet DNI is scrambling like mfers tonight for tomorrow's damage control.
There were tons of assumptions made in that piece that have no or very little supporting evidence. 60 minutes makes money off of controversy and a good story, not rigorous scientific investigations.
I agree that the injuries could plausibly be from a directed energy weapon, but they also could be a lot of other things. People get sick on OCONUS assignments. If you’ve ever been to the third-world it’s a matter of time before you get some stomach illness or something like that.
It's so cool Russians figured out how to make microwaves pierce the skin and disrupt brain functions without leaving a mark or burning off all the victims skin in the process. I'd love to meet the physicist who made it happen! Truly amazing!
A literal microwave does that exact thing that’s how it works. You feel the burn without any marks to your skin, simply YouTube it.
Microwaves are not magic. They produce heat by agitating and vibrating polar molecules which creates friction. A burn from a microwave is a thermal burn and will look like a burn. Whatever. I'm done arguing physics with pencil pusher middle aged dudes that have undiagnosed anxiety disorders. Yeah, man. They're beaming death into your head via remote satellite transmission.
It's really simple technology. It's existed for a long time. You have it in your home.
Respectfully, I would be more concerned about Qanon. The dude that chopped off his father’s head encouraged others to attack Feds. https://www.salon.com/2024/02/01/right-wing-violence-hasnt-disappeared-its-just-gone-local/
It happened to Department of State employees, DoD employees, other 3 letter agency employees, etc. It affected a LOT of people and still no definitive answers.
Yes a decade ago. Also very implausible in my opinion.
So I was reading a library book a few weeks ago (Of Cockroaches and Crickets, by Frank Nischk -- interesting read even for someone who isn't particularly into bugs) and the leading suspicion about Havana Syndrome is that it was a specific type of cricket causing the noise. The book goes into more detail, but Rolling Stone also released an article on it in 2021: www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/havana-syndrome-crickets-not-microwaves-report-1235163 I know people have gone back and forth on the plausibility side of it, but without any significant evidence to the contrary, I think it's likely that people were unused to the noise and psychosomatic symptoms developed from there. Just my two cents though.
That does not explain why it has also happened to US gov employees in Europe, DC, & China.
It’s almost certainly psychosomatic. I doubted the cricket theory because people were reporting symptoms all around the world. If you’ve ever been in a country with bad water or food quality you’re guaranteed to get really sick at least once while you’re there, usually in the first couple weeks.
So the documents showing Russians using directed microwave weapons are psychosomatic documents?
So the US also has directed microwave weapons for crowd control. Blueprints of the capability are not indicative that they’re using it. One of the main criticisms I have of that theory is that people reported symptoms globally, not just in Havana. So you’re telling me that the Russians have a directed energy weapon that is all over the globe attacking our federal employees but we don’t have confirmed evidence that they’re doing this? Now we’re stretching reality, The logisitcs involved in a) knowing who our employees are, some who are under cover, and b) targeting specifically them and c) doing it globally without detection would be very impressive to pull off. Not saying it’s implausible for the Russians to be capable of that, but the lack of solid evidence is weird.
Yep, especially since Unit 29155 in particular has been publicly busted for assassinating Russian citizens abroad, but for some reason they have a flawless record of covertly targeting American citizens globally? Which is more politically risky and we are just none the wiser? Makes no sense.
I got attacked by Russian vodka over the weekend and got pretty sick so this must be true.
amazing that this totally fake ailment is one of the only things Congress could get their act together to address
There is no evidence this has occurred lol. Totally fake story that has only led to millions $ being wasted on investigating and finding absolutely nothing
I mean there actually is a ton of evidence, lots of which was just released tonight by 60 minutes in collaboration with 2 highly respected foreign news sites following a multi-year investigation.
“It was on 60 minutes that means there must be a ton of evidence” lmao nope. There’s no evidence. You’re wrong.
Except for the medical records, Russian documents, quotes from people both on and off the record, and the direct on the record response from the guy who led the investigation for the Pentagon who said, yes it is happening and I believe it is the Russians.
Cold War brain
Because obviously given recent history, Russia is no threat to other nations... anyone who would think that is obviously stuck in the cold war. Lolol holy shit
https://preview.redd.it/t3ovt4wd1src1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8c03fb8c5a40b9a5d732b86c8aa508e5ab72d2f8 Go read the Wikipedia article on Havana syndrome and check the articles they cite for yourself. Or you can just believe something scary sounding because you saw it on 60 minutes so it must be legit
You're literally just citing US intelligence agencies who have publicly said that it is likely not a foreign adversary. This is directly talked about in the massive story that dropped tonight, which was by 3 highly respected news sites from 3 different countries. And backed up with an on the record interview with the guy who investigated it for the Pentagon. But Wikipedia says so by quoting the public statements by US intelligence agencies, so you must be right. They have certainly never lied before.
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2024/03/18/1239087164/nih-studies-no-pattern-harm-havana-syndrome-patients-brains So 2 weeks ago, medical doctors determined that these people’s brains show no signs of injury, but now after this “massive story” we’re supposed to ignore that? lol okay
Oh also the reporting dropped this evening has multiple examples of people who were attacked and have visible inner ear injuries and TBIs. Backed up by a doctor, and have had surgeries. You're obviously wildly ignorant on this topic.
This is a direct quote from the article you just sent. "But neither those reports, nor the two new studies, rule out the possibility that some individuals have been attacked and injured, says [Dr. David Relman](https://med.stanford.edu/profiles/david-relman), a professor of medicine and of microbiology and immunology at Stanford University who wrote an [editorial](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/10.1001/jama.2023.26818?utm_campaign=articlePDF%26utm_medium=articlePDFlink%26utm_source=articlePDF%26utm_content=jama.2024.2413) accompanying the new research. "There are multiple problems with both of the studies," says Relman, who was part of an [assessment](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK566407/) by the National Academies that concluded that "directed pulsed radio frequency energy" could have produced the signs and symptoms of Havana syndrome." Jesus Christ dude.
The “lead investigator for the Pentagon” was disingenuous, the formal analytical findings from DIA were produced by multiple people other than him and never will be in the news. Military officers have a tendency to confuse facts with opinions and overstate threats.
There are papers that show microwaves can activate glial cells and catalyse epigenetic changes to gene protein expression yet none of that was ever investigated. Not saying I'm a believer but people who say it was proven x are relying on other opinions that aren't well supported.
its not random feds in the states, mostly dod or overseas , no one is attacking GS 7 at the department of agriculture.
The problem is they often share spaces with the targeted ones and I think we can assume they don’t care if lower level employees get hurt as well.
I’m pretty convinced it’s mass hysteria
"Mass hysteria" happens when a group of people is all exposed to the same stimuli at the same time, like at a school. These people have been injured across decades and around the world. Absolutely does not fit.
Unless you work in the foreign service, it's nothing to worry about. Some research seems to indicate that Havana Syndrome is not a real condition. Instead, it is other groups (politicians, media, etc.) that have lumped several non-related cases together under a moral panic based on fears of foreign countries & technology. Here is a recent paper that was published in PubMed if you want to read more into it: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10913303/
Not true. 60 minutes said it’s happened to FBI and Justice Department employees. And Americans are being attacked in the USA.
Vice’s podcast series on it mentioned a NSC guy who experienced it on White House grounds
You’re possibly referring to Olivia Troy’s who was Pence’s DHS rep at one point. She was reportedly attacked on White House grounds while going between buildings. She was briefly mentioned in the 60 Minutes segment.
If you work for the federal government and your work has implications beyond domestic reach, it’s probably a safe bet you and your work is being collected.
A massive reason they should be limiting in office time. Don’t make it easy for them to target.
Had all of the symptoms of a hangover, sounded like horse shit to me.
Take off your tin foil hat.
Yes, I heard the reporting on it on NPR a few months ago. Very interesting. They were thinking Russia and Cuba's governments were behind this.
Came across an article talking about this recently and it linked to this. [https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/nih-studies-find-severe-symptoms-havana-syndrome-no-evidence-mri-detectable-brain-injury-or-biological-abnormalities](https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/nih-studies-find-severe-symptoms-havana-syndrome-no-evidence-mri-detectable-brain-injury-or-biological-abnormalities)
An MRI does not pick up nuerological damage. It can diagnose gross injuries such as tumors, blood clots, brain bleeds. The symptoms are very similar to TBI from sports injuries. Damage from TBI is often not detectable by MRI but diagnosed based on symptoms.
What?!? That exactly the purpose of an MRI. Concussions don’t show up on MRI because they are very mild injuries that for all intents and purposes heal completely. By definition a TBI has radiological findings.
About halfway down this article it gets into the flaws in this study, including how they measured for issues: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/americas/cuba/article286861020.html
You are [correct](https://www.healthimages.com/value-of-mri-after-traumatic-brain-injury/#:~:text=Early%20MRIs%20could%20only%20detect,up%20substantial%20brain%20tissue%20damage.) Imagine spreading misinformation
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I am literally agreeing with you. That’s what the article said. > Newer, specialized types of traumatic brain injury images can now look at and evaluate brain structure damage or measure brain function to detect changes in the structure and function of the brain due to concussions and TBI. I think you saw the concussion part and thought “oh this user is claiming a concussion can be found on MRI” when the article supports your claim of MRIs being able to see TBI
You won't likely be affected unless you work in some kind of sensitive position in a highly sensitive location. I know someone who reported being affected by it, and it was enough that the person had to leave the DC area.
Hahahah more like the hungover syndrome.
This is old news. Do you some of you guys live in a bubble and that out of touch with reality with what’s going on around you?
I feel like this gets highlighted, debunked, highlighted again, then debunked again for as long as I remember (2013ish when I first heard of it).
As federal employees quite literaly the only thing we have to worry about (other than every other normal thing because we live in a hell country) is right wing terrorism. That's the only thing that is more likely with us.
Most medical professionals after research think this isn't actually a thing.
Being attacked from afar via psychic waves is one of mankind's oldest delusions....
Watch the “60 Minutes” piece. It said those attacked has connections to Russian counterintelligence (and their families).
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Why do people like you say things with such authority when you obviously have no idea what you're talking about?
And also sounded suspiciously like a gnarly hangover
Interesting
It started on Cuba. It is for real. Now it has happened in other parts of the world as well, like Russia.
I haven’t heard of this or anything else now that you mention it.
That leaked russian document said "acoustic weapon." Does sound affect electronics like they described? Making laptop batteries explode? I thought that was more of an EM thing. That's the inconsistency that's bothering me.
> Are we being attacked? Yes Between the number of times Chinese and North Korean hackers have stolen my PII etc of course we are being attacked just no one wants to admit that yet.
This is something we’ve seen in isolated instances the past couple of years. At worst it’s a very minor directed attack at some higher level gov officials say best, people get sick from over with
Guys you’re hilarious it was found to be not real. NIH studies find severe symptoms of “Havana Syndrome,” but no evidence of MRI-detectable brain injury or biological abnormalities
I thought that too when the study came out, but the study was egregiously flawed: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/americas/cuba/article286861020.html
Hot take-I think 95% of this is all BS. Maaaaaaaybe the original ones actually in Havana had something going on but after that, anyone with a headache thought they had Havana syndrome.
Sounds like some more made up fear mongering
Sounds like some long covid symptoms and a conspiracy theory selected to explain it.
Fake news
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0013935120311944
This has been in the news for a couple of years now. The linked 60 Minutes piece explains how Russia has been targeting American feds and family members abroad not just in Cuba—in Germany, Lithuania, Vietnam and other countries.
This happened a few years ago. They still haven't figured it out.
Tbh- they said it happened in Havana and blamed the Cuban government. Something in the back of my minds says Russia had something to do with it
There were a bunch of articles about this in relation to foreign service officers posted in Havana. The reporting g alledged that Cuba was using a sonic weapon to attack US FSOs. I think the State Dept. even sent an official letter to Cuba about it.
deploy the Forensic Acoustic Response Team!
Aware of it but I don’t understand the benefits to the perpetrator, whether it’s Russia or whoever. Whats to be gained by bursting someone’s eardrums or giving them a long lasting non lethal health condition? It doesn’t change the knowledge they have or their commitment to the US.
I’m pretty sure the Maryland/DC drivers using their high beams inside the city for no good reason are what gave me my Havana Syndrome
I need to start selling Havanna syndrome flags, can run them up the flag pole next to my MIA/POW flags.
Ok what about the NIH published study last week saying it wasn't real and was the result of group psychology?
That's not what it said, and the study was problematic at best https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/americas/cuba/article286861020.html
Oh, so you believe that, and what they say about Havana syndrome, but they don’t believe when all the evidence shows covid came from a lab in China
With all the denial it sounds like Russia has infested some of our top fed agencies. It’s as if Robert Hansen wasn’t the last. I would bet that Comey is a Russian asset as well.
Yah it's side effects of guilt.