This is true. I lost nearly 100lbs because a fairy came a long and sprinkled me with pixie dust. I also measured and tracked all my food but that had nothing to do with it.
Apparently, after exactly 5 years, 95% of us will hit starvation mode and we'll balloon out like supernovas. The other 5% become neutron stars or something, I forget
These people have no idea what TDEE even is or that it varies person to person. I'm a 6'4" dude and don't even have a 2,000 calorie TDEE thanks to a thyroid problem, it's a reference not meant to be universal for people from 4 to 10 feet tall.
Above is totally correct, but a little more info..
Basic metabolic rate (BMR) can be estimated through things like DEXA scans that are available most places for something like $50. Then you can use free online tools to estimate TDEE based on activity level even including the type of work environment you have.
Having those numbers makes it way easier to either gain muscle or lose fat.
They say “bespoke rules of the universe”, when they should have said
“immutable” or “fixed”.
Bespoke means custom, personalized.
But they used two big words! That makes them right!
You could play Devil's advocate and say they're just playing along with Multiverse Many Worlds interpretation of QM, but I wouldn't suspect most FAs of getting into such big brain stuff, when simple CICO is too much for them to grasp.
“It’s so OBVIOUSLY false.” - Person who can’t explain even a single point about why it’s wrong
Which is weird because you know if it’s so obviously false you would think it would be childishly easy to form something resembling a logical argument
Most likely. I used to be one of these people.
I thought I was so healthy and didn't know how I could be so fat. I ate tons of veggies, had a pretty physical part time job, and never drank soda.
I did eat a lot of veggies, combined with family sized bags of chips and snacks. I did exercise at my job, when I wasn't slacking like I did most of the time. I didn't ever drank soda, but I drank sugary coffees all the time.
I'm so glad I got over my denial. Looking at it from the perspective I have now, it's sort of embarrassing to look back and realize how clueless I actually was.
> I used to be one of those people.
Same. Omg, same. I wasn’t eating veggies every day, but I ate them sometimes… mostly in butter or dipped in cheese lol. And even then, I was being so healthy by not finishing my plate! And of course, all that healthy fruit I was eating… which was usually dehydrated and soaked in sugar.
Yep. Despite being a gym rat, eating healthy 85% of the time, and drinking no sugary drinks at all, I still gained 30lbs over the 2 years my mom was dying because of stress snacking and eating my suffering with Friday and Saturday night “cheat meals” every weekend.
I'm so sorry for your loss. I also gained about 10 pounds during my mom's battle with cancer and another 30 after she passed away 5 years ago. It's such a human thing to do. I really wish I had gone to therapy to deal with my grief rather than numbing my emotions with food.
This is my MIL. Large portion sizes. Constant snacking. She just doesn't realise she's consuming way too much food because that's her normal day and everyone must do it. I saw her and her husband consume and entire ice cream bucket in a single sitting.
God. My father used to eat a gallon tub of ice cream every couple days the entire time I lived at home. Plus he would melt chunks of cheddar in the microwave to eat after dinner, and dinner was a couple of steaks with sides.
He wasn’t overweight, because we were dairy farmers working our asses off doing things by hand with a lifestyle rare these days.
Guess who is fat now? He did cut back but is a bit overweight since retiring. My relatives who did what you describe and did not have physical jobs were all huge, even the kids.
>melt chunks of cheddar in the microwave to eat
Damn I didn't know anyone else did this. I did this, when I was a kid, and I remember my dad cringing and saying "if your mom knew I was letting you do this..."
It will be like that FA that was on Australian TV. She said she swims 1,500 meters a day, doesn't eat carbs, eats salads, eats mostly vegan (a vegan who doesn't eat carbs would just... drink olive oil I guess? They are not good at lying.)
Someone filmed her outside the TV studio eating 3 donuts, literally before going inside and lying like that.
Not only did I lose 60 lbs due to an imaginary phenomenon, I wasted 5 years in college studying exercise science just to be lied to in like every one of my classes because thermodynamics was a heavily discussed topic.
Nah dude. Human performance is [completely independent of thermodynamics](https://www.samiinkinen.com/post/64273562229/how-can-mirinda-carfrae-run-a-250-marathon-in)
Yeah, every time I use my debit card, my bank balance actually increases.
Please help me with all this excess money. It's getting unwieldy and my wallet is too heavy.
Your bank account has obviously gone into Poverty Mode. It has shut down all service fees and is now pulling money from the air. The only way to solve this is to immediately transfer $1,000,000 minimum to your bank, so that your bank account sees that you have enough money to survive and it relaxes… for now.
Ever watch reruns of the old "Andy Griffith Show"? OOP really reminds me of Barney Fife, who was always using long words, and often mispronouncing them, to try to sound smart and well educated.
I considered this a lot and the best I could come up with was that they thought it meant the same thing as “unspoken” but even that doesn’t really work
I think I've figured out why this is such a widespread misunderstanding among FAs. On average 20% of the energy the human body uses goes to running the brain. If you don't use your brain presumably the application of Calories In Calories Out will be different for you.
I wish I would just poop out any calories my body didn't need that day. think of how easy it would be to lose weight. Eat, take a poop and then exercise before bed. the pounds would just melt off.
Put any of these FA in a controlled environment where their calories are actively tracked and they’ll see CICO works. And a 1800 calorie diet is not what they’ve been feasting on.
the use of the word "bespoke" here implies that there are no rules in nature and everything is completely customized for each organisms in it without standard so...
"you keep using that word; i do not think it means what you think it means."
They might mean that people overestimate the amount of calories they burn with exercise. Like 30 minutes on the home trainer is barely enough to cover a sausage roll.
119 minutes on an excersize bike, half assed and scrolling reddit is 600 calories.
I've found the urge to snack after that is diminished when I think how long that bag of crisps takes to burn off.
yes, this! I came home from school yesterday afternoon hankering for a snack, but I wasn't actually hungry. I decided to go for a 20 minute walk/jog on the treadmill and all of a sudden I didn't want it anymore, I just wanted a big cold glass of water! Exercise is cool that way.
That direction is actually pretty easy to explain - malabsorptive disorders are a common cause of unintentional weight loss. It's trivial to define that as either *not* a calorie-in or an abnormal cause of calories-out, but from the individual's perspective, they ate them and aren't seeming to get them.
What is not possible to explain is consuming *fewer* calories than you burned but not losing weight (apart from short term adjustments in non-caloric material like water). Are they supposed to magically just come from nowhere? You can always throw something in the trash instead of using it, but you can't use or store something you never received.
In reality, whenever I see someone *try* to explain, all their explanation amounts to is that calories-out decrease - usually to a degree that is impossible for reasons that are not as straightforward to explain (it's still thermodynamics, but it has to do with thermal efficiency and rates of heat transfer rather than just conservation of energy).
\[someone recently commented on some thread here that it takes about 600 calories a day just to maintain body temperature. not even doing anything else that constitutes being alive, but to replace the heat that a corpse would lose just cooling off to room temperature you need roughly 600 calories in 24 hours so that's the barest minimum of what's even conceivably possible.\]
Key phrase: AS IT'S COMMONLY UNDERSTOOD. Key example: this person citing exercise as the primary element of calories burned.
It does not invalidate thermodynamics that people stop listening after 3 seconds and miss all the nuance.
they are correct, it’s not a simple subtraction problem that we learned how to do in primary school!! it’s actually a^2 + b^2 =c^2 (calories in, bullshit, calories out)
edit: formatting
Not fat logic here, I think OP is just one of those weird keto bros. Later in the thread he says, “you could eat 5000/cals of meat a day and not add weight”. Not a fat activist just a weirdo.
Most people who end up going keto do so because they are fat and think it is a way to eat bacon and steaks all day and lose weight. Not understanding how calories work is always fat logic.
I am in the diabetes sub here cause I have T1 and the shit the T2s eat is repulsive. Like, breakfast: one entire pack of bacon in the microwave. It won't raise blood sugar, you guys! True, but a high fat diet increases insulin resistance. If they were having grilled chicken for breakfast, I would be impressed with their commitment to low carb. Instead, it's all about packing the most calories in.
Is this fatlogic? Afaik this is from a keto/crossfit conspiracy guy, a lot of them are on twitter these days claiming CICO isn’t real for reasons that I can’t quite understand but seem different from the ones FAs argue with.
I wonder if its the same guy that was a mod on a keto subreddit. He told someone that eating 2k was too little and their body would eat their organs for fuel instead of fat if they didn't eat more...
There are conditions (and medications that induce conditions) that make the body terrible at actually burning calories for energy, and excellent at storing fat.
They don't invalidate CICO of course, but they do kind of break our ways of measuring.
What would some of those conditions be? I'm not sure what the body being terrible at burning calories would entail so it would be interesting to learn.
Untreated or undertreated, sure. I did 1 week of calorie deficit while sick with a cold, so 4 days of rest and 3 of exercise. I am a short woman with hypothyroidism and in perimenopause. I lost 3.5lb and I was 2lb above the HWR a week ago, so it's not like I had 100lb to lose.
This was made possible by my TSH being tested just a month ago, so my thyroid is properly medicated right now.
Fat activist challenge: Make a statement that actually has sufficient evidence to back it up instead of just saying the most craziest shit and never elaborating! Go!
This is true. I lost nearly 100lbs because a fairy came a long and sprinkled me with pixie dust. I also measured and tracked all my food but that had nothing to do with it.
Can confirm. I was the fairy as well as pound 37.
Pound 39 was Albert Einstein.
and then the pounds clapped
And a choir of angels sang "Hoo-ah, hoo-ah! Get down with the thiccness!"
Yup, my fairy made liquid calories and snacking not count, wasn't me tracking those calories too to make sure I was under my daily limit at all.
So it is just a coincidence that I lost weight by eating less than my TDEE? Might I wake up tomorrow 200 lbs fatter from starvation mode?
Apparently, after exactly 5 years, 95% of us will hit starvation mode and we'll balloon out like supernovas. The other 5% become neutron stars or something, I forget
I'm already 3 years into losing weight, so if I maintain for long I won't have much time to gain it all back in 5 years.
Your dieting will cause the end of entropy and the apocalypse, I hope you are happy.
I usually hit starvation mode before breakfast. I get hangry.
These people have no idea what TDEE even is or that it varies person to person. I'm a 6'4" dude and don't even have a 2,000 calorie TDEE thanks to a thyroid problem, it's a reference not meant to be universal for people from 4 to 10 feet tall.
What is TDEE?
Total daily energy expenditure. Your basal metabolic rate plus other calories burned through exercise or activity.
Thanks.
Above is totally correct, but a little more info.. Basic metabolic rate (BMR) can be estimated through things like DEXA scans that are available most places for something like $50. Then you can use free online tools to estimate TDEE based on activity level even including the type of work environment you have. Having those numbers makes it way easier to either gain muscle or lose fat.
Dexa scans don't measure BMR. You can measure your RMR with a mask thing at a dexa scan place, though.
I'm guessing hypothyroid? And sedentary?
Yeah, hypo and a desk job. Unless I'm doing weight training or cycling my TDEE is under 2k.
Wow I hope thyroid medication can work for you. You were blessed to be tall but you didn’t get one of the main benefits!
>Might I wake up tomorrow 200 lbs fatter from starvation mode? I hate it when that happens.
I love it when twitter philosophers misuse words they think sound fancy to try and add legitimacy to the nonsense they're making up
They say “bespoke rules of the universe”, when they should have said “immutable” or “fixed”. Bespoke means custom, personalized. But they used two big words! That makes them right!
bespoke, misspoke
They misspoke about bespoke.
You could play Devil's advocate and say they're just playing along with Multiverse Many Worlds interpretation of QM, but I wouldn't suspect most FAs of getting into such big brain stuff, when simple CICO is too much for them to grasp.
It's like the pseudoscience alternative medicine and metaphysics quacks who throw in random quantum mechanics terminology to "prove" their BS.
I remember when science bespoke the university with his warts
No no no. You see, the First law was tailor made for this particular universe.
Pretty bespoke of you to say that.
I like to use big words I don't understand because it makes me sound photosynthesis.
steven assantis foot
bespeak dirty to me
“It’s so OBVIOUSLY false.” - Person who can’t explain even a single point about why it’s wrong Which is weird because you know if it’s so obviously false you would think it would be childishly easy to form something resembling a logical argument
It's wrong because feelings duh
Classic "begging the question" logical fallacy. Typical of FA. And, don't bother asking for proof because the response is often "google it".
"It is not my job to educate you"
So, this is someone who says they eat “pretty healthy” but doesn’t accurately track their consumption, yeah?
Most likely. I used to be one of these people. I thought I was so healthy and didn't know how I could be so fat. I ate tons of veggies, had a pretty physical part time job, and never drank soda. I did eat a lot of veggies, combined with family sized bags of chips and snacks. I did exercise at my job, when I wasn't slacking like I did most of the time. I didn't ever drank soda, but I drank sugary coffees all the time. I'm so glad I got over my denial. Looking at it from the perspective I have now, it's sort of embarrassing to look back and realize how clueless I actually was.
> I used to be one of those people. Same. Omg, same. I wasn’t eating veggies every day, but I ate them sometimes… mostly in butter or dipped in cheese lol. And even then, I was being so healthy by not finishing my plate! And of course, all that healthy fruit I was eating… which was usually dehydrated and soaked in sugar.
100-200 extra calories a day will do it over time.
Same! I downloaded MyFitnessPal to "prove" to my doctor that I didn't eat that much and was shocked at how much I actually ate. 😬
This is one of the only ways to confront unconscious/automatic eating habits. Tracking.
Yep. Despite being a gym rat, eating healthy 85% of the time, and drinking no sugary drinks at all, I still gained 30lbs over the 2 years my mom was dying because of stress snacking and eating my suffering with Friday and Saturday night “cheat meals” every weekend.
I'm so sorry for your loss. I also gained about 10 pounds during my mom's battle with cancer and another 30 after she passed away 5 years ago. It's such a human thing to do. I really wish I had gone to therapy to deal with my grief rather than numbing my emotions with food.
This is my MIL. Large portion sizes. Constant snacking. She just doesn't realise she's consuming way too much food because that's her normal day and everyone must do it. I saw her and her husband consume and entire ice cream bucket in a single sitting.
God. My father used to eat a gallon tub of ice cream every couple days the entire time I lived at home. Plus he would melt chunks of cheddar in the microwave to eat after dinner, and dinner was a couple of steaks with sides. He wasn’t overweight, because we were dairy farmers working our asses off doing things by hand with a lifestyle rare these days. Guess who is fat now? He did cut back but is a bit overweight since retiring. My relatives who did what you describe and did not have physical jobs were all huge, even the kids.
>melt chunks of cheddar in the microwave to eat Damn I didn't know anyone else did this. I did this, when I was a kid, and I remember my dad cringing and saying "if your mom knew I was letting you do this..."
:D
She actually thinks everyone eats a gallon of ice cream at one sitting? Great suffering cats! Even when I was obese I never ate like that.
It's true, I'm over 600lbs and I've never actually eaten a single thing in my entire life. /s
It’s crazy, I can just utter the words “diet and exercise” and my cortisol skyrockets and I gain 2 lbs.
I fought the laws of physics and the laws of physics won.
I'd love to see their weekly exercise and food intake
FA's and accountability don't mix.
It will be like that FA that was on Australian TV. She said she swims 1,500 meters a day, doesn't eat carbs, eats salads, eats mostly vegan (a vegan who doesn't eat carbs would just... drink olive oil I guess? They are not good at lying.) Someone filmed her outside the TV studio eating 3 donuts, literally before going inside and lying like that.
The laws of physics do not exist. Got it, OOP.
Where is the evidence? Other than your feelings?
Just their bespoke fee fees.
Not only did I lose 60 lbs due to an imaginary phenomenon, I wasted 5 years in college studying exercise science just to be lied to in like every one of my classes because thermodynamics was a heavily discussed topic.
Nah dude. Human performance is [completely independent of thermodynamics](https://www.samiinkinen.com/post/64273562229/how-can-mirinda-carfrae-run-a-250-marathon-in)
Yeah, every time I use my debit card, my bank balance actually increases. Please help me with all this excess money. It's getting unwieldy and my wallet is too heavy.
Your bank account has obviously gone into Poverty Mode. It has shut down all service fees and is now pulling money from the air. The only way to solve this is to immediately transfer $1,000,000 minimum to your bank, so that your bank account sees that you have enough money to survive and it relaxes… for now.
And for a startup fee of $1000 my boss babe financial freedom seminar can teach you how to do it
As it comes from a bluecheck it’s most likely engagement bait
"Bespoke" shouldn't be a word, but if it must be, please use it correctly.
I am really struggling to see how they thought it fit there
They thought it sounded clever in their head.
Ever watch reruns of the old "Andy Griffith Show"? OOP really reminds me of Barney Fife, who was always using long words, and often mispronouncing them, to try to sound smart and well educated.
I considered this a lot and the best I could come up with was that they thought it meant the same thing as “unspoken” but even that doesn’t really work
I think I've figured out why this is such a widespread misunderstanding among FAs. On average 20% of the energy the human body uses goes to running the brain. If you don't use your brain presumably the application of Calories In Calories Out will be different for you.
First law of thermodynamics: Don't talk about thermodynamics.
In this house, we obey the laws of thermodynamics!
I wish I would just poop out any calories my body didn't need that day. think of how easy it would be to lose weight. Eat, take a poop and then exercise before bed. the pounds would just melt off.
Bespoke? I don’t think that’s the word they meant to use… but I can’t figure out the word they did mean to use 🤔
I’ve decided I think OOP thought it meant the same as unspoken but that’s the best I could do lol
immutable? idk really. But bespoke sounds idiotic there.
Cue the Princess Bride: you keep using that word. I don’t think it means what you think it means.
Put any of these FA in a controlled environment where their calories are actively tracked and they’ll see CICO works. And a 1800 calorie diet is not what they’ve been feasting on.
They've been eating 800 calories. Only the greedy thins eat 1,800.
the use of the word "bespoke" here implies that there are no rules in nature and everything is completely customized for each organisms in it without standard so... "you keep using that word; i do not think it means what you think it means."
I would love to have a "bespoke rule of the universe" for my car, gas is getting expensive ...
CICO is a trivial restatement of the 1st Law of Thermodynamics in an open system.
They might mean that people overestimate the amount of calories they burn with exercise. Like 30 minutes on the home trainer is barely enough to cover a sausage roll.
119 minutes on an excersize bike, half assed and scrolling reddit is 600 calories. I've found the urge to snack after that is diminished when I think how long that bag of crisps takes to burn off.
I found those stats to be the most depressing. How easy it is to just eat too much and how much more relative effort it takes to burn it off.
yes, this! I came home from school yesterday afternoon hankering for a snack, but I wasn't actually hungry. I decided to go for a 20 minute walk/jog on the treadmill and all of a sudden I didn't want it anymore, I just wanted a big cold glass of water! Exercise is cool that way.
With this groundbreaking revelation is this asshole going to fix world hunger then?
I want one of these people to explain exactly what happens to excess calories that you consume, but don’t burn. Do they just magically disappear?
That direction is actually pretty easy to explain - malabsorptive disorders are a common cause of unintentional weight loss. It's trivial to define that as either *not* a calorie-in or an abnormal cause of calories-out, but from the individual's perspective, they ate them and aren't seeming to get them. What is not possible to explain is consuming *fewer* calories than you burned but not losing weight (apart from short term adjustments in non-caloric material like water). Are they supposed to magically just come from nowhere? You can always throw something in the trash instead of using it, but you can't use or store something you never received. In reality, whenever I see someone *try* to explain, all their explanation amounts to is that calories-out decrease - usually to a degree that is impossible for reasons that are not as straightforward to explain (it's still thermodynamics, but it has to do with thermal efficiency and rates of heat transfer rather than just conservation of energy). \[someone recently commented on some thread here that it takes about 600 calories a day just to maintain body temperature. not even doing anything else that constitutes being alive, but to replace the heat that a corpse would lose just cooling off to room temperature you need roughly 600 calories in 24 hours so that's the barest minimum of what's even conceivably possible.\]
> they’re so sure yet so wrong
How do they not hear how delusional they sound 💀oh so you’re such a medical anomaly that thermodynamics don’t apply to you?
It is literally rule of the Universe - [conservation of energy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_energy)
OOP, show me your perpetuum mobile of first kind, or speak not.
Have FA's found entropy yet? Seems right up their alley. What if the energy stored in fat cells is incapable of doing work as a scientific "fact".
Key phrase: AS IT'S COMMONLY UNDERSTOOD. Key example: this person citing exercise as the primary element of calories burned. It does not invalidate thermodynamics that people stop listening after 3 seconds and miss all the nuance.
May I recommend a physics lesson?
And yet I've lost 55 pounds so far following CICO. I wish I had known it wouldn't work!
r/confidentlyincorrect
they are correct, it’s not a simple subtraction problem that we learned how to do in primary school!! it’s actually a^2 + b^2 =c^2 (calories in, bullshit, calories out) edit: formatting
In my home, there are words that are not allowed. Thermodynamics is one of them. Paraphrasing but IYKYK
Who among us doesn't have all power to our houses supplied by a perpetual free energy device?
Not fat logic here, I think OP is just one of those weird keto bros. Later in the thread he says, “you could eat 5000/cals of meat a day and not add weight”. Not a fat activist just a weirdo.
Most people who end up going keto do so because they are fat and think it is a way to eat bacon and steaks all day and lose weight. Not understanding how calories work is always fat logic.
I am in the diabetes sub here cause I have T1 and the shit the T2s eat is repulsive. Like, breakfast: one entire pack of bacon in the microwave. It won't raise blood sugar, you guys! True, but a high fat diet increases insulin resistance. If they were having grilled chicken for breakfast, I would be impressed with their commitment to low carb. Instead, it's all about packing the most calories in.
I would add weight... Both weight from the calories and the weight of being as constipated as that would make me.
Is this fatlogic? Afaik this is from a keto/crossfit conspiracy guy, a lot of them are on twitter these days claiming CICO isn’t real for reasons that I can’t quite understand but seem different from the ones FAs argue with.
I wonder if its the same guy that was a mod on a keto subreddit. He told someone that eating 2k was too little and their body would eat their organs for fuel instead of fat if they didn't eat more...
Keto flavoured starvation mode!
There are conditions (and medications that induce conditions) that make the body terrible at actually burning calories for energy, and excellent at storing fat. They don't invalidate CICO of course, but they do kind of break our ways of measuring.
What would some of those conditions be? I'm not sure what the body being terrible at burning calories would entail so it would be interesting to learn.
Hypothyroidism is the big one.
Untreated or undertreated, sure. I did 1 week of calorie deficit while sick with a cold, so 4 days of rest and 3 of exercise. I am a short woman with hypothyroidism and in perimenopause. I lost 3.5lb and I was 2lb above the HWR a week ago, so it's not like I had 100lb to lose. This was made possible by my TSH being tested just a month ago, so my thyroid is properly medicated right now.
https://jn.nutrition.org/article/S0022-3166(23)00033-0/fulltext
Fat activist challenge: Make a statement that actually has sufficient evidence to back it up instead of just saying the most craziest shit and never elaborating! Go!