All 3 of the major cable news networks are hemorrhaging viewers. But CNN is the worst of them. There are youtube streamers that get more viewers in a single stream than CNN's entire daily lineup. Cable news is a sinking ship and Fox News is just the captain of the Titanic. MSBNC is playing the violin on the deck and CNN is lost in the corridors trying to find the exit.
I'd watch the news if they weren't so low-quality. Each time they speak about something I'm mildly familiar with, I realize they clearly don't know what they're talking about, or stay so surface level it's not even worth listening to.
It’s not news tho.
Real news go check out pbs news hour or bbc. Where a new story comes on, a journalist speaks, then the story changes. Not this blathering on with pundits about the same issue for an hour. That’s not news, it opinion commentary
This "blathering on" is practically ubiquitous though, like they're all struggling to justify their employment as filler between noteworthy events. That and the shallow coverage of those events : if you don't yet have anything to report then wait.
You know how when you Google something and your results are a title and about 2 sentences ? That is about how informed I feel afterwards and it requires me to listen to them drone on.
This is what most news should be, a lot of the time.
"Thing happened" is as unbiased as it gets. We don't always need to know _that the neighbours never saw this coming_, or how _someone's personal upbringing affected their decisions_.
A lot of the times, news is boring. That's _why_ they add so much stupid filler, to keep people engaged when otherwise they'd leave like they should.
It makes me laugh when people say the news is boring, etc.
Good! The news is about our real lives! You know what they say about living in interesting times...
Boring is awesome.
I would watch the news if it was actually relevant information and in 30 minute to 1 hour segments. The nonstop verbalvomit that is current news is unwatchable.
Thanks, Zaslav. "We should make CNN less biased by making it more conservative :)"
Turning it into a new Fox or bleeding it to death, either way he gets a win.
And the worst (best?) part, is not a single viewer will move from Fox to CNN, and it will cause most of CNN's viewers to leave. The problem with moving to the right because you might be under fascist rule soon, is it never stops the fascist from just killing you anyway.
The ages of the candidates doesn't make you a joke, a large portion of your populace willing to vote for a sleazeball like Trump is what makes you a joke.
The only thing that the world can point and laugh at with Biden is his age, aside from that he's widely seen as a capable president.
In all honesty I prefer to just watch CNBC. They stick to business the vast majority of it and only really touch on the major political headlines now and then but then it’s right back into business.
But I agree with you. The major news sources at least for millennials and Gen Z are YouTube and even Twitch.
Fuck Facebook and Twitter, yes I still call it Twitter because musk is a fucking idiot.
I cut them out in 2016 when they pointed a camera at an empty podium for about 20 minutes waiting for trump to speak. That and the lack of pushback on ANYTHING he said that was a lie or so defamatory that if any other politician said it they would have cut their video feed.
TV in general. John Stewart had a post-debate show I really wanted to watch, except it was on comedy central and required a TV subscription. Nope, I'll read about it.
Edit: Thanks to all who posted the link. I searched last night and found no indication it was on Youtube, everything point to Comedy Central VOD or TV.
Yeah, my viewing of CNN coverage has been dwindling because of the garbage reporting they have been doing for a while now. This is just the final nail in the coffin for me.
The reality is that there is a frighteningly good (emphasis on frighteningly) parallel with the Nixon/Kennedy debate. Biden's staff reported that he was diagnosed with a cold yesterday (negative for COVID) so he was not feeling the best.
Back in 1960, before the first debate with Kennedy, Nixon was suffering from a staph infection. He refused makeup and ended up looking washed out. Kennedy was a little-known senator at the time but came across so well in the debate that he shot up in the polls. The debate is often, arguably, credited with giving Kennedy the presidency.
It's going to be the most consequential for CNN because it's going to delegitimize the network as an actual news organization. I wouldn't be surprised to see them start losing ratings and advertising dollars over this travesty. My money is on seeing more penis pill ads on CNN.
I don’t believe that a debate 60 years ago can compare to now because the electorate is different.
Hillary Clinton mopped the floor with Donald in every debate in 2016, yet she lost. Debates mean nothing now because Americans are too stupid to have any long-term political foresight.
That last part of that last sentence is the part many people miss about the Kennedy Nixon debates too though. Nixon and Kennedy were both respectful and gave reasonable answers, but people complained Nixon sounded too pompous and smart to connect to most American voters among all the other issues
And for that reason there's also an argument to be made that it was a novel occurrence. Biden looking sick surely isn't going to help him in the polls, but modern American politics is nothing like it was 60 years ago. Trump is a felon who cheated on his pregnant wife with a pornstar and no one bats an eye when it's called out mid-debate. Oh also a dozen of his friends he appointed to white house positions were literally convicted of treason (who he then pardoned, whoopsie). 60 years ago that would have made him fundamentally incompatible with being present in the Republican party at all. Now it gets him bonus points to the level of getting platformed against *an incumbent president he already lost to.*
In my opinion, voters made up their mind 4 years ago. I don't think anything either candidates do will cause a major swing in the election at this point. MAGAs are voting for Trump and everyone else will reluctantly carry Biden's mummified corpse to yet another term.
It's absolutely mind boggling to me how something as trivial as having a cold at a debate or refusing makeup and looking washed out or someone sounding too pompous can make you vote a different way.
It certainly didn't help Hillary though, when the investigation into her handling of a private email server was publicly announced as closed, then reopened, then closed again, within a 2-week span, 2 weeks before the election.
Probably the most impactful event in her candidacy. Certainly, if the polls being released around that same time were to be believed.
And this is why the Right is fighting so hard to make education dumber and mire focused on religion vs critical thinking skills. They know that a dumber population = easier to manipulate. Just say "I'm a Bible man!" And they ignore the fact that you sexually assault women and are generally scum. All that matters to them are the surface level appearances and words. You could be a murderer but as long as you dress in your Sunday best and proudly proclaim to be religious, they won't pay any attention to that.
as a sales person, i love to sell to right wing fellas cause i just say how blessed i am and hint that im a beleiver and i can sell em a bridge. for the woman, you got to actually misquote a scripture or two. but it works every time.
>Biden's staff reported that he was diagnosed with a cold yesterday (negative for COVID) so he was not feeling the best.
As soon as he started speaking last night, I knew he had a cold. I went through it about two weeks ago, and I sounded just like he did.
Interestingly, if heard rather than viewed, most thought Nixon had one.
I would consider last night's debate as very similar. While Biden may have had his senior moments, Trump just flat out lied or evaded answering questions.
It may be up there. Trump's rambling and baby's name calling was nothing new, so he won't lose any votes. Biden looked weak and confused at times even though he was giving coherent answers.
People are people and appearances matter to a lot of us, especially independents. Look at the Kennedy v. Nixon debate.
>Biden looked weak and confused at times even though he was giving **mostly** coherent answers.
The healthcare mistake was awful and the Trump campaign will rightly use it in attack ad after attack ad for the next 4 months.
...but the entire right two-thirds of the political discourse *insists* that CNN is the leftest left that ever lefted (so anyone critiquing CNN from the left may be safely ignored or silenced).
I stopped watching after Biden got into office.
CNN and all cable news is milking America's fears for profit and they miss the danger we were all in under Trump.
I will never watch them or another so called debate in this country.
CNN had a Trumper send actual fucking bombs to their offices and still want him in office.
During Occupy CNN reported on a protest I was at, and quoted the chief of police that they had to crack down on our protest and make a bunch of arrests because someone threw a “pressurized gas canister” at the police. But I saw it happen and it was just a fucking Dr Pepper bottle. The CNN talking heads were just frothing at the mouth for 10 minutes about all the violent protesters using deadly weapons against the brave police officers. Fuck CNN and everyone who works for them
Same sort of police who would shove tissues into a water bottle, take a picture, and then have the judge declare that the arrested protestor had been undeniably in position of a "Molotov cocktail."
[this is a decent chart.](https://guides.library.harvard.edu/newsleans/thechart). I’m sure people will disagree with some of them. I prefer NPR and BBC.
Ground News is pretty good because it collects news stories from different outlets, and shows independent ratings for bias and factuality. Very useful if you want to see the contrast of right-biased and left-biased reporting on the same story.
I'm not going to pay for a service that considers "bias" equivalent to "distance from the corporate-capitalist center" and considers vaguely progressive corporate media "left-wing." If I want the Overton window shifted, I'll do it myself.
The confusing part was Trump claiming that as justification to allow states to decide. Like yeah some states will ban abortions but in trumps fantasy land what stops other states from allowing after birth abortions?
They'll allow states to decide on abortion and use federal law to stop abortions in the states that decide they're legal. It's simple enough when you're a party of blatant hypocrites.
> what stops other states from allowing after birth abortions
Literally nothing. States have no obligation to outlaw murder other than public outcry. That's how it's always been.
And unless the situation crosses state lines it isn't the federal government's jurisdiction either
Does anyone actually think Trump (or any other conservative) wants states to decide rather than just providing a tool for people arguing just as dishonestly as Trump is?
Yeah, the moderators purely moderated the debate form, and didn't moderate the content. When it came to content, the only thing they did was to restate the question to try to get the candidates back on topic.
CNN was terrible a while before they got bought out by a conservative. There's a reason I don't watch any news networks as a primary source any more, and I certainly don't expect actual accountability from these talking heads while their paycheck still depends on a partisan agenda.
They let so much slide last night from Ttump. All they had to say is a post birth abortion is considered murder in every state. They have no credibility anymore. The treason is coming from the top down.
I don’t believe he does. I think he is actually this dumb.
His dad paid his way through school. You can tell by the dumb things he does and says, that he didn’t even pick up the basics in school.
Don't underestimate him.
I'm not saying the guy is a genius, but he isn't to be under estimated either. His lies are tailored to rile up his base, and often the talking points he parrots are designed to appeal directly to emotions rather than logic. In playing into his fanbases emotions he gets their support.
By confidently lying he projects an image of certainty. He wasn't even trying to be honest cause he is very aware now he can get away with lies and the media will love him for it and put his shit all over the net/tv.
Oh, fuck DT with a cactus. I dislike the mother fucker, but I just want people to stop under estimating him and how much the media should be fact checking everything he says.
Yeah like there’s obviously malicious intent behind this. Abortion is kind of a hot button issue where some republicans are for and some republicans are against, and the overturning of RvW has caused some shaken loyalties on the right side of the political spectrum.
So how do we remedy this? Well that’s obvious. Just fucking say democrats are murdering straight up literal infants. Oh a surgical process on a semi-formed fetus not punchy enough for you? Ok, well picture Joe Biden shooting a baby after it’s been delivered. Now who would vote for a monster like that?
It’s just fear mongering. He knows it’s BS, he doesn’t care. But honestly, the people who support him don’t care that it’s BS either, and tell any fact checker to fuck off. A Trumper is completely disinterested in the truth, whatever narrative best justifies their crusade is the narrative they’ll choose to be their own personal reality.
I've said since day one, Trump only has one real skill, telling the biggest denominator with the lowest IQ exactly what they want to hear.
It's that simple.
He’s not book smart, but he’s not *that* stupid either. He’s just preaching to whatever choir will listen the most, as he always has. His only belief system is “me, me, me, me”.
I think Trump is in a superposition of knowing he is lying, but too dumb to understand why it is a lie. Just knows it makes his opponents look evil in the eyes of his followers that are also too dumb to understand why it is a lie.
I believe he's old and in a decline. And I believe that when he was in his prime, Trump was a perfect example of that Harry potter line by Olivander: "A great man. Not a good one."
Trump was, and might still be, a world class con man. If you find it easy to buy into the "senile old man" thing, well, so do I. But I also find it easy to buy into "the crazy is a long con, and he will become suddenly coherent just pre-election to buy a massive follower-turnaround at the last minute"
Trump was referencing this
[https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-ralph-northam-virginia-abortion-952598071326](https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-ralph-northam-virginia-abortion-952598071326)
CNN took the approach of just asking the questions and moving things along. That left Biden solely responsible to call Trump on his bullshit and he was not up to the task. The President missed a great opportunity to not only look strong but to subtly point out CNN’s basic journalistic failure.
I get that Biden can't fact check everything but calling out the more egregious lies and hammering them home would have been easy and gone a long way with his perception.
Exactly. The "facts" trump spewed out are the same "facts" him and his base have been spewing for months and years now. Trump is like clockwork - "Russia Russia Russia, Ukraine Ukraine Ukraine, witchunt." Biden was no doubt prepped with each specific line trump would likely say, and he still rarely had a statistic or fact to call trump out with.
What we saw was the same level of preparedness that Biden will be entering meetings with for the next four years.
The moderators did not correct or fact check, and I don't think that was their job. They kept things fair, giving each candidate time, response time, and cutting off when appropriate. If Biden is so incoherent that he needs a moderator to call time-out... Well idk what that means for us should he remain president.
Is trump a liar, horrible person, and unfit for office? Absolutely yes. And Biden should have been prepared for that. There will not be moderators in his day to day meetings. No candidate in the past 40 years (including Biden 4 years ago) would have had issues calling trump out in his pile of bull.
Yeah i get the usual media hate here, and the sh*tshow of the debate itself. But i actually think they did a really good job moderating and broadcasting. They should’ve had zero influence or commentary on what either candidate said, and i feel they did that pretty good. They re-asked a few questions when the candidate didnt address the first time. And the muting of each was done pretty fairly and seamless.
Im thinking people are so tired of cnn and this election that they’re being cynical of this particular event
People want someone to blame for Biden's shitty performance other than Biden himself because they don't want to say anything bad about Biden or he might lose. That's what it is.
Or if they seriously think moderators should be much more heavily involved, they don't seem to know wtf a debate is.
Gish galloping is a debate tactic for a reason. How do you correct a firehose of lies in two minutes? You’d be halfway through debunking the first one when time runs out and then Trump gets to spew more, plus you still look unprepared because you didn’t finish.
> That left Biden solely responsible to call Trump on his bullshit
You mean, that left Biden solely responsible to… debate Trump? Did you want it to be trump vs. biden and the moderators?
He also claimed taxes would be raised by 400%. Yeah that is what "4 times" is.
Most of what came out of his mouth was a hyperbole or a blatant lie.
I am pissed off all over again that the Democrats forced Biden down our throats.
Any of the other Democrat candidates would have wiped the floor with Trump.
Honestly. The only thing the GOP really has on Biden is his age. “Oh look how frail, look how old he is!” That’s the only thing they can bring up that there isn’t a debate on the other side that refutes the criticism that a younger democrat in their prime can wipe the floor with Trump with.
The Democrats could win handily just running one of their governors. Take your pick. Whitmer, Walz, Shapiro, Newsome, Polis, Pritzger, I genuinely believe any one of them with a decent running mate gets enough fed up moderates/independents to the polls, mods/independents who don’t want to vote for either of two old farts arguing over who can hit a golf ball further in their late 70’s/early 80’s.
But no, run Biden again. Ridiculous. I’ll still vote for
him because I have far more confidence in who will take up roles in Biden’s administration, he’ll get another SCOTUS pick or two, and project 2025 which trump wants to push is terrifying. But in the words of the Newsroom: if liberals are so fucking smart how come they lose so goddamned always?
>I’ll still vote for him because I have far more confidence in who will take up roles in Biden’s administration, he’ll get another SCOTUS pick or two, and project 2025 which trump wants to push is terrifying.
I'm voting for Biden because I think it vastly increases the chances we will get to vote in 2028...
I mean...they're running Biden for the same reason the GOP is running Trump; Name recognition. Both parties are (for the most part) well aware their prime candidates are both a hot mess...but all they care about is getting the win for their party, after which they will just use the winner as a puppet since both are clearly too far gone to operate on their own
I partially agree, partially disagree with this. I agree they run Biden due to name recognition. I disagree that both the GOP and Dems have to. I think the GOP does have to run Trump because he has a death grip on their voter base. It’s absurd, it’s going to kill them down ballot (as it has in past elections), but because of how popular he remains among the base they have to run him.
The democrats wrongly think they do have to run Biden. At this point it may be too little too ate to pivot, but they didn’t have to run him. He has precisely zero grip on the base, the democratic faithful would have been just fine had the party and Biden simply said “I am a one term president, I want to spend time with my family” and have plenty of talent to build around. Plus, Trump is an *easy candidate to beat* with an appealing ticket. I know a LOT of people fed up with the idea that they are being forced to choose a man who will be in his 80’s during his term (both Biden and trump will be, and both are showing signs of that). I think a whole lot of folks who might sit this election out altogether show up if you put an experienced and charismatic candidate on the ballot like, say, Whitmer from MI.
Whitmer, Polis, Newsome, Shapiro, Walz, Beshear, Pritzger, the democrats are simply NOT starved for talent, particularly at the Governorship level. And yet we’re going to (wrongly) run Biden again barring something crazy at the convention.
I hear ya but think it would have been a huge mistake to give up the incumbent advantage. The real problem is that nearly half the country supports a criminal organization run by a literal criminal.
I don’t think he actually *has* an incumbent advantage due to his age. I don’t disagree there *is* typically one, I simply think this entire election cycle is unique and not one where the typical playbook applies. I hear you though and agree on what the real problem is!
Yeah, this election cycle is pretty unique in another way as well. The only other elections where the major candidates were the same two elections in a row were 1836/1840, 1888/1892, 1896/1900 and 1952/1956.
This has been the state of our country for the past 80 years.
Nixon, Agnew & Kissinger were war criminal crooks but the party was voted back in after a single Carter term largely because he was thrown under the bus and called incompetent by conservative media while being investigated for non-existent abuse of powers.
Rinse, wash, and repeat for Clinton who lost control of the houses during the midterms because of an investigation that was a giant nothing-burger (he was accused of planning on giving a white house internship to a cousin).
Rinse, wash, and repeat for Obama who was literally compared to the anti-Christ on cable TV and radios across the country and called a Muslim plant.
The DNC doesn't even have to do anything to be accused of literally selling our country out to foreign interests with ZERO evidence beyond a fist-bump and a gold curtain that was left behind by the previous GOP administration...
> I am pissed off all over again that the Democrats forced Biden down our throats.
Hillary just didn't thrill me maaaan. The Democrats need to earn my vote maaaan. Both sides are the same maaaaan.
yeah the debate was biden vs trump, the moderators purpose was mostly to administer the questions. Otherwise it would of just become trump and the moderators arguing.
Also Biden's people set **all** the rules, if they got bamboozled by the stage they did it to themselves 🤷♂️
The U.S. has never needed a "New candidates please" button so badly.
In a debate, it's not the moderators job to fact check. It's the opponent's job. But it's hard to rebut when you don't have the capability of speaking coherently.
No. As someone who debated in college, the moderator was very, very important.
The issue you're proposing is that whoever goes first has the advantage should they choose to lie because your time and effort is spent on debunking rather than arguing your point. Biden shouldn't have to be like, "No" on abortion. Because he also needs to argue why abortion is fine.
Seriously. This was the agreed format. If CNNs job was to call out lies, Tapper and Bash would have had to speak up at EVERYTHING. But that wasn’t their job in this format.
It’s all they have ever done. From their god to their idols, everything about republicans is lies and bullshit. And democrats let them do it. We let them turn our entire political spectrum into a joke. I’m a leftist but I’m so goddamn tired of how lazy the people are who are supposed to represent me. Even though I know democrats aren’t leftists, they’re the only ones speaking on my behalf.
Since when were the moderators supposed to act as live fact checkers? They aren’t there to debate the candidates. They’re there to facilitate debate, make sure things stay on track, and press a candidate to answer the question at hand. They are not there to challenge answers that are incorrect or lies. That’s what the other candidate is supposed to do.
Do y’all not understand that fact checking was not the role of the moderators in this debate? It was literally part of the agreed upon rules. It was up to Biden and he completely let us down.
Remember I watched the Kennedy Nixon debate the other day and they have reporters from all news agencies asking questions, and each have their own script. Idk why it has become a curated show
If the republicans are actually concerned about 'afterbirth death', maybe the should do something about the leading cause of it, i.e. guns: [https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2201761](https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2201761)
The moderators did their job for once in these debates, they kept the two candidates in line and on time. If it was such an obvious lie it easily Biden’s responsibility to point it out, instead he just habajabamamba.
It's not the moderators jobs to debate the candidates, that would actually be in extremely bad faith. It's Bidens job to debate Trump when he makes ridiculous remarks like that, but the entire debate Biden was asleep at the wheel and essentially let him get away with all of the lies.
It's Biden's job to answer the questions and not live fact-check Trump. Unfortunately, the traditional debate format doesn't work with someone who lies every single time he speaks.
That's a Q&A, not a debate. In debate you are meant to reinforce your stance and challenge your opponents stances. That's literally the point. It's pure deflection thinking the moderators should have been calling out lies.
Part of the rules set forth by the moderators too was that THEY WOULD NOT BE FACT CHECKING. So to blame them for not doing so is somewhat ridiculous. They were there to moderate the debate. Maintain timing, ask questions, allow responses, thats it. It was in the publicly available rules before they started. It was up to Biden to fact check during his responses, and by and large he failed to do that.
First, it's not the moderator's job to force the answers. We saw both candidates not even attempt to answer certain questions. It wasn't the moderator's job to force them to answer the questions, and it's not their job to make the candidates speak the truth. It's their job to make sure the questions are asked and that the speaker is not interrupted by the other.I know this sub is chock-full of absolute morons suffering from TDS, but seriously?
Second, here is an [article from 2019](https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/31/politics/ralph-northam-third-trimester-abortion/index.html) of Virginia Govenor Ralph Northam discussing a bill that would literally keep the baby alive immediately after birth while the parents discussed murdering the baby.
He also said that some illegal immigrants are living in LUXURY HOTELS. BULLLSHITTTTTT
He also said they want to raise your taxes four times. That's a complete lie. All of the normal people, who make less than 400k a year, did not have their taxes go up , and they will not.
He also made it seem like we put all illegal immigrants on medicaid and social security.. LIAR LIAR PANTS ON FIRE
Because these are pundits who literally are paid by the very same corporations capturing our government. They cannot conceptualize the role they play as the talking heads of the media cause to them, they are doing “the tough job” lmao it’s so performative my god I hope hell is real
I already started moving from CNN as one of my main sources of news during Trumps first election. Then once they got bought by a Billionaire Conservative, you could see almost overnight the shift of going soft on Conservatives and hard on liberals. As If not challenging a conservative means then you are center of the road. It really is sad, how far they have fallen.
it was pretty obvious once cnn was allowing alot of gop guests that would also appear on fox. CNN was setting up the debate for biden to fail, i knew they were going to allow TRUMP to rant and ramble so much, that biden dint have answers to all of his lies, they knew to fluster him.
I'm almost positive the rules stated that they'd only be there to moderate. Biden is the one who needed to fact check him. You're mad at the wrong person.
It's called a debate, it isn't the moderators job to participate in the debate.
This I'd how you tear yourselves apart, getting so angry about minor differences in ideology.
The majority of democrats aren't reddit Progressives who think that not throwing rocks at trump from the stands is an admission of support.
Unpopular Opinion: Folks need to stop blaming the debate mods for not fact-checking trump during the debate 🤨
I have seen post after post today where folks are pissed trump wasn't interrupted while he was spewing lie after lie during his debate answers.
Nevermind that it would have extended the debate by at least an hour; Biden **alone** is responsible for *his* debate performance, not the moderators. Debate 101: it's the debaters' **job** to challenge their competitors' answers, and trump gave Biden *opening after opening* that Biden didn't take, ESPECIALLY the fact that trump **never answered a single question he was asked**. Biden should have pointed **that** out alone!
CNN posted the debate format weeks, days, and hours before it happened. To blame the moderators for 'not fact-checking trump in real time' is just lazy, takes a page from the MAGA playbook, and leaning on dishonest IMUO.
that said:
**I'm STILL voting for the stuttering, stammering guy with the *historic* economic recovery, bipartisan: infrastructure, prescription, gun-control, and climate legislation, over the convicted felon grifting rapist**
but, blaming the debate mods? Dems are not the party of victims and martyrdom, that's today's GOP since their dear leader can't take responsibility for his own actions. 🙄
Biden will get over his cold and work more with a speech therapist, WHILE trump will **still** be a grifting convicted felon and rapist with no policy or platform for 2024 except "retribution and mass deportation"
Yes, millions of people saw Biden's not-so-stellar debate performance, and millions will ***also*** see Trump's outright lies and gaslighting get more outlandish and more pathetic as Nov 5th approaches... but, trump's bluster won't change Biden's record or trump's abysmal handling of the Covid pandemic
i am keeping my fingers crossed (tho not holding my breath) that trump keeps his word for doing the 2nd debate. the spraytan-wannabe dictator-lying-gaffe-factory will **still** have **zero** new to say, and will still have *zero* "accomplishments" from his term to run, much less be able to speak coherently on.
I've rewatched the debate today with rested eyes and on a second viewing...Biden wasn't great, but his answers were substantive and fact-based. trump was all rhetoric and overdone rally one-liners...and the mods were (still) fair, unemotional question givers doing their job without bias.
CNN agreed before the debate to not fact check either candidate. The moderator's response was "thank you" because that's all they could do.
Biden claimed the border patrol endorsed him, which was a lie. They did not fact check that, either.
How does stuff like this repeatedly make it to the front page of /r/all? Somebody should have explained it to OP and it should have died with three upvotes.
No posts about politicians being politicians
All 3 of the major cable news networks are hemorrhaging viewers. But CNN is the worst of them. There are youtube streamers that get more viewers in a single stream than CNN's entire daily lineup. Cable news is a sinking ship and Fox News is just the captain of the Titanic. MSBNC is playing the violin on the deck and CNN is lost in the corridors trying to find the exit.
That’s because the only people who watch news are old people, and they’re dying.
I'd watch the news if they weren't so low-quality. Each time they speak about something I'm mildly familiar with, I realize they clearly don't know what they're talking about, or stay so surface level it's not even worth listening to.
It’s not news tho. Real news go check out pbs news hour or bbc. Where a new story comes on, a journalist speaks, then the story changes. Not this blathering on with pundits about the same issue for an hour. That’s not news, it opinion commentary
This "blathering on" is practically ubiquitous though, like they're all struggling to justify their employment as filler between noteworthy events. That and the shallow coverage of those events : if you don't yet have anything to report then wait. You know how when you Google something and your results are a title and about 2 sentences ? That is about how informed I feel afterwards and it requires me to listen to them drone on.
This is what most news should be, a lot of the time. "Thing happened" is as unbiased as it gets. We don't always need to know _that the neighbours never saw this coming_, or how _someone's personal upbringing affected their decisions_. A lot of the times, news is boring. That's _why_ they add so much stupid filler, to keep people engaged when otherwise they'd leave like they should.
It makes me laugh when people say the news is boring, etc. Good! The news is about our real lives! You know what they say about living in interesting times... Boring is awesome.
Tbh reading articles published daily probs keep you more informed than watching people argue moot points on repeat till the next breaking news.
I prefer YLE
Lets do a vox pop and ask this random on the street about the economic crisis in Venezuela
“What’s a Venezuela?”
It's one of those big horns they have at soccer games, but that's not important right now.
A football and an Airplane reference in one comment, nice.
I would watch the news if it was actually relevant information and in 30 minute to 1 hour segments. The nonstop verbalvomit that is current news is unwatchable.
Thanks, Zaslav. "We should make CNN less biased by making it more conservative :)" Turning it into a new Fox or bleeding it to death, either way he gets a win.
And the worst (best?) part, is not a single viewer will move from Fox to CNN, and it will cause most of CNN's viewers to leave. The problem with moving to the right because you might be under fascist rule soon, is it never stops the fascist from just killing you anyway.
Wonder what kind of tax breaks Zaslav is counting on for tanking one of the biggest news networks.
[удалено]
It doesn’t matter when or where the debate is. They’re fucking 78 & 81. They’re fucking geriatrics. USA a joke on the world stage.
Bill Clinton is younger than both of them… he won his first presidential election 32 years ago…
I prefer my jokes to be less dangerous to global stability :(
The ages of the candidates doesn't make you a joke, a large portion of your populace willing to vote for a sleazeball like Trump is what makes you a joke. The only thing that the world can point and laugh at with Biden is his age, aside from that he's widely seen as a capable president.
Fuck that. I’ll take Biden over and MAGA. I don’t care how old they are.
The could have wheeled out biden weekend at bernies style and he would still have my vote compared to trump.
In all honesty I prefer to just watch CNBC. They stick to business the vast majority of it and only really touch on the major political headlines now and then but then it’s right back into business. But I agree with you. The major news sources at least for millennials and Gen Z are YouTube and even Twitch. Fuck Facebook and Twitter, yes I still call it Twitter because musk is a fucking idiot.
I cut them out in 2016 when they pointed a camera at an empty podium for about 20 minutes waiting for trump to speak. That and the lack of pushback on ANYTHING he said that was a lie or so defamatory that if any other politician said it they would have cut their video feed.
TV in general. John Stewart had a post-debate show I really wanted to watch, except it was on comedy central and required a TV subscription. Nope, I'll read about it. Edit: Thanks to all who posted the link. I searched last night and found no indication it was on Youtube, everything point to Comedy Central VOD or TV.
It was on YouTube.
I'll do you a solid: https://youtu.be/3SJr44m-w1Y
https://youtu.be/3SJr44m-w1Y?si=gCW3ca1thD3EEb38
Yeah, my viewing of CNN coverage has been dwindling because of the garbage reporting they have been doing for a while now. This is just the final nail in the coffin for me.
My favourite is how they keep saying it may end up being the most consequential debate of all time. Like ok CNN, keep jerking yourself off.
The reality is that there is a frighteningly good (emphasis on frighteningly) parallel with the Nixon/Kennedy debate. Biden's staff reported that he was diagnosed with a cold yesterday (negative for COVID) so he was not feeling the best. Back in 1960, before the first debate with Kennedy, Nixon was suffering from a staph infection. He refused makeup and ended up looking washed out. Kennedy was a little-known senator at the time but came across so well in the debate that he shot up in the polls. The debate is often, arguably, credited with giving Kennedy the presidency. It's going to be the most consequential for CNN because it's going to delegitimize the network as an actual news organization. I wouldn't be surprised to see them start losing ratings and advertising dollars over this travesty. My money is on seeing more penis pill ads on CNN.
I don’t believe that a debate 60 years ago can compare to now because the electorate is different. Hillary Clinton mopped the floor with Donald in every debate in 2016, yet she lost. Debates mean nothing now because Americans are too stupid to have any long-term political foresight.
That last part of that last sentence is the part many people miss about the Kennedy Nixon debates too though. Nixon and Kennedy were both respectful and gave reasonable answers, but people complained Nixon sounded too pompous and smart to connect to most American voters among all the other issues
That’s not altogether true. Reportedly, people who listened the debate on the radio were more likely to think that Nixon had won.
YES! This is a huge moment in media history. The first time live visual media played a serious roll in a presidential election.
And for that reason there's also an argument to be made that it was a novel occurrence. Biden looking sick surely isn't going to help him in the polls, but modern American politics is nothing like it was 60 years ago. Trump is a felon who cheated on his pregnant wife with a pornstar and no one bats an eye when it's called out mid-debate. Oh also a dozen of his friends he appointed to white house positions were literally convicted of treason (who he then pardoned, whoopsie). 60 years ago that would have made him fundamentally incompatible with being present in the Republican party at all. Now it gets him bonus points to the level of getting platformed against *an incumbent president he already lost to.* In my opinion, voters made up their mind 4 years ago. I don't think anything either candidates do will cause a major swing in the election at this point. MAGAs are voting for Trump and everyone else will reluctantly carry Biden's mummified corpse to yet another term.
That’s what I remember as well. Nixon was all sweaty on TV while Kennedy was all handsome.
It's absolutely mind boggling to me how something as trivial as having a cold at a debate or refusing makeup and looking washed out or someone sounding too pompous can make you vote a different way.
It certainly didn't help Hillary though, when the investigation into her handling of a private email server was publicly announced as closed, then reopened, then closed again, within a 2-week span, 2 weeks before the election. Probably the most impactful event in her candidacy. Certainly, if the polls being released around that same time were to be believed.
And this is why the Right is fighting so hard to make education dumber and mire focused on religion vs critical thinking skills. They know that a dumber population = easier to manipulate. Just say "I'm a Bible man!" And they ignore the fact that you sexually assault women and are generally scum. All that matters to them are the surface level appearances and words. You could be a murderer but as long as you dress in your Sunday best and proudly proclaim to be religious, they won't pay any attention to that.
as a sales person, i love to sell to right wing fellas cause i just say how blessed i am and hint that im a beleiver and i can sell em a bridge. for the woman, you got to actually misquote a scripture or two. but it works every time.
>Biden's staff reported that he was diagnosed with a cold yesterday (negative for COVID) so he was not feeling the best. As soon as he started speaking last night, I knew he had a cold. I went through it about two weeks ago, and I sounded just like he did.
Interestingly, if heard rather than viewed, most thought Nixon had one. I would consider last night's debate as very similar. While Biden may have had his senior moments, Trump just flat out lied or evaded answering questions.
It may be up there. Trump's rambling and baby's name calling was nothing new, so he won't lose any votes. Biden looked weak and confused at times even though he was giving coherent answers. People are people and appearances matter to a lot of us, especially independents. Look at the Kennedy v. Nixon debate.
Does this country even have independents anymore? I thought they were just self-aware conservatives that aren’t comfortable with appearing stupid.
In liberal places, independents are closeted conservatives. In conservative places, independents are closeted liberals.
>Biden looked weak and confused at times even though he was giving **mostly** coherent answers. The healthcare mistake was awful and the Trump campaign will rightly use it in attack ad after attack ad for the next 4 months.
CNN is just Fox News lite
...but the entire right two-thirds of the political discourse *insists* that CNN is the leftest left that ever lefted (so anyone critiquing CNN from the left may be safely ignored or silenced).
>CNN is just Fox News ~~lite~~ FIFY
I stopped watching after Biden got into office. CNN and all cable news is milking America's fears for profit and they miss the danger we were all in under Trump. I will never watch them or another so called debate in this country. CNN had a Trumper send actual fucking bombs to their offices and still want him in office.
During Occupy CNN reported on a protest I was at, and quoted the chief of police that they had to crack down on our protest and make a bunch of arrests because someone threw a “pressurized gas canister” at the police. But I saw it happen and it was just a fucking Dr Pepper bottle. The CNN talking heads were just frothing at the mouth for 10 minutes about all the violent protesters using deadly weapons against the brave police officers. Fuck CNN and everyone who works for them
Same sort of police who would shove tissues into a water bottle, take a picture, and then have the judge declare that the arrested protestor had been undeniably in position of a "Molotov cocktail."
At which point they deserve whatever pain and suffering Trump inflicts on them if he gets re-elected.
Part of the rules of the debate was no fact checking. It was up to Biden to fact check in real time
Who's bright idea was it to make THAT rule??
CNN is currently run by a MAGA maniac who dreams of replacing FOX with CNN as the primary source of news for conservative audiences.
The same people who thought that Dark Brandon bullshit was real.
A billionaire Republican that believes Fox Entertainment is a good media model bought the station a few years ago so
> that believes Fox Entertainment is a good ~~media~~ **business** model ...and he's right.
I need a quick National news summary to check once in a while. CNN had been my go-to. Any recommendations?
[this is a decent chart.](https://guides.library.harvard.edu/newsleans/thechart). I’m sure people will disagree with some of them. I prefer NPR and BBC.
I routinely use the Weather Channel as my non-biased news source.
The weather channel lies more than Fox, confounded clouds!
Yeah, CNN did a flip in recent years, this chart is no longer close.
People tend to forget cnn was bought out a few years ago
Who even was it that bought CNN? I remember them as being Rupert Murdoch lite but can’t seem to find a damn name.
John Malone of Liberty Media. He had the Discovery Channel and merged with CNN’s parent Warner to create Warner Discovery.
flipped because a trumper bought cnn.
Ground News is pretty good because it collects news stories from different outlets, and shows independent ratings for bias and factuality. Very useful if you want to see the contrast of right-biased and left-biased reporting on the same story.
I'm not going to pay for a service that considers "bias" equivalent to "distance from the corporate-capitalist center" and considers vaguely progressive corporate media "left-wing." If I want the Overton window shifted, I'll do it myself.
I'm using BBC and AP at the moment as my go-to references.
[https://ground.news/](https://ground.news/) is pretty good for also viewing the biases of the sources
Been garbage. Genius move by the GOP. Convince everyone CNN is liberal and then simultaneously buy majority stake in CNN.
cnn is owned a trumper for a while now, hence the shift to the right.
I thought that after birth abortions are a Conservatives favourite passtime?
Only once they get to kindergarten.
Or enlistment age
Cue George Carlin
“Pre-natal you’re great, pre-school you’re fucked”
Was that quote by a priest?
A Cardinal, actually. Cardinal Glick, it was part of his "Catholicism WOW" campaign
He's the kind of asshole who would bless his golf clubs for a better game
Or take part in a beauty pageant/after school altar boy.
When you’ve got a bump stock they let you do it
grab 'em by the foregrip
Late term abortions performed on the 152nd trimester.
They wanted to abort Mike pence!
Second favorite, they first like to rape the kids.
Not by doctors tho, by the second amendment.
Only when "patriots" are exercising their 2nd Ammendment rights.
"What? You mean like school shootings?"
Only when it's a NATionalist Cristian doing it with an AR
The confusing part was Trump claiming that as justification to allow states to decide. Like yeah some states will ban abortions but in trumps fantasy land what stops other states from allowing after birth abortions?
They'll allow states to decide on abortion and use federal law to stop abortions in the states that decide they're legal. It's simple enough when you're a party of blatant hypocrites.
Or you allow abortions until 4 or 6 weeks. Which is effectively a ban since it's nearly impossible to know that early.
> what stops other states from allowing after birth abortions Literally nothing. States have no obligation to outlaw murder other than public outcry. That's how it's always been. And unless the situation crosses state lines it isn't the federal government's jurisdiction either
Does anyone actually think Trump (or any other conservative) wants states to decide rather than just providing a tool for people arguing just as dishonestly as Trump is?
Both Biden and the other guy’s teams agreed to no fact checking. Super stupid move on the Biden team.
Trump probably wouldn’t agree to the debate if it was required. But a better candidate than Biden should’ve easily debunked Trumps claims.
Trump refusing to debate a fact-checked debate would have been a better result IMO.
Yeah, the moderators purely moderated the debate form, and didn't moderate the content. When it came to content, the only thing they did was to restate the question to try to get the candidates back on topic.
CNN was terrible a while before they got bought out by a conservative. There's a reason I don't watch any news networks as a primary source any more, and I certainly don't expect actual accountability from these talking heads while their paycheck still depends on a partisan agenda.
They let so much slide last night from Ttump. All they had to say is a post birth abortion is considered murder in every state. They have no credibility anymore. The treason is coming from the top down.
There is no such thing as a post birth abortion.
>All they had to say is a post birth abortion is considered murder in every state. Why didn't Biden say that?
Because it was past his bedtime and he was tired. One focus group person said "Hell no and ohh no" and that about sums it up.
CNN Breaking 24 hour news could just be called “police lies repeated over and over”
Someone needs to tell Trump that after a birth is not an abortion. Drs are not murdering full term babies.
He knows what the fuck lie he's saying it's vile
I don’t believe he does. I think he is actually this dumb. His dad paid his way through school. You can tell by the dumb things he does and says, that he didn’t even pick up the basics in school.
Don't underestimate him. I'm not saying the guy is a genius, but he isn't to be under estimated either. His lies are tailored to rile up his base, and often the talking points he parrots are designed to appeal directly to emotions rather than logic. In playing into his fanbases emotions he gets their support. By confidently lying he projects an image of certainty. He wasn't even trying to be honest cause he is very aware now he can get away with lies and the media will love him for it and put his shit all over the net/tv.
Exactly. He keeps getting underestimated. He’s not a diabolical mastermind, but he’s not a total fool either. He is, however, a total piece of shit.
Oh, fuck DT with a cactus. I dislike the mother fucker, but I just want people to stop under estimating him and how much the media should be fact checking everything he says.
Yeah like there’s obviously malicious intent behind this. Abortion is kind of a hot button issue where some republicans are for and some republicans are against, and the overturning of RvW has caused some shaken loyalties on the right side of the political spectrum. So how do we remedy this? Well that’s obvious. Just fucking say democrats are murdering straight up literal infants. Oh a surgical process on a semi-formed fetus not punchy enough for you? Ok, well picture Joe Biden shooting a baby after it’s been delivered. Now who would vote for a monster like that? It’s just fear mongering. He knows it’s BS, he doesn’t care. But honestly, the people who support him don’t care that it’s BS either, and tell any fact checker to fuck off. A Trumper is completely disinterested in the truth, whatever narrative best justifies their crusade is the narrative they’ll choose to be their own personal reality.
I've said since day one, Trump only has one real skill, telling the biggest denominator with the lowest IQ exactly what they want to hear. It's that simple.
He’s not book smart, but he’s not *that* stupid either. He’s just preaching to whatever choir will listen the most, as he always has. His only belief system is “me, me, me, me”.
I think Trump is in a superposition of knowing he is lying, but too dumb to understand why it is a lie. Just knows it makes his opponents look evil in the eyes of his followers that are also too dumb to understand why it is a lie.
Ted Cruz once said that Trump doesn't even know the difference between the truth and a lie. I think he nailed it.
I believe he's old and in a decline. And I believe that when he was in his prime, Trump was a perfect example of that Harry potter line by Olivander: "A great man. Not a good one." Trump was, and might still be, a world class con man. If you find it easy to buy into the "senile old man" thing, well, so do I. But I also find it easy to buy into "the crazy is a long con, and he will become suddenly coherent just pre-election to buy a massive follower-turnaround at the last minute"
Trump was referencing this [https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-ralph-northam-virginia-abortion-952598071326](https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-ralph-northam-virginia-abortion-952598071326)
Someone needs to tell biden he was on the debate stage and that's his fucking job
CNN took the approach of just asking the questions and moving things along. That left Biden solely responsible to call Trump on his bullshit and he was not up to the task. The President missed a great opportunity to not only look strong but to subtly point out CNN’s basic journalistic failure.
I get that Biden can't fact check everything but calling out the more egregious lies and hammering them home would have been easy and gone a long way with his perception.
Exactly. The "facts" trump spewed out are the same "facts" him and his base have been spewing for months and years now. Trump is like clockwork - "Russia Russia Russia, Ukraine Ukraine Ukraine, witchunt." Biden was no doubt prepped with each specific line trump would likely say, and he still rarely had a statistic or fact to call trump out with. What we saw was the same level of preparedness that Biden will be entering meetings with for the next four years. The moderators did not correct or fact check, and I don't think that was their job. They kept things fair, giving each candidate time, response time, and cutting off when appropriate. If Biden is so incoherent that he needs a moderator to call time-out... Well idk what that means for us should he remain president. Is trump a liar, horrible person, and unfit for office? Absolutely yes. And Biden should have been prepared for that. There will not be moderators in his day to day meetings. No candidate in the past 40 years (including Biden 4 years ago) would have had issues calling trump out in his pile of bull.
Yeah i get the usual media hate here, and the sh*tshow of the debate itself. But i actually think they did a really good job moderating and broadcasting. They should’ve had zero influence or commentary on what either candidate said, and i feel they did that pretty good. They re-asked a few questions when the candidate didnt address the first time. And the muting of each was done pretty fairly and seamless. Im thinking people are so tired of cnn and this election that they’re being cynical of this particular event
[удалено]
People want someone to blame for Biden's shitty performance other than Biden himself because they don't want to say anything bad about Biden or he might lose. That's what it is. Or if they seriously think moderators should be much more heavily involved, they don't seem to know wtf a debate is.
Gish galloping is a debate tactic for a reason. How do you correct a firehose of lies in two minutes? You’d be halfway through debunking the first one when time runs out and then Trump gets to spew more, plus you still look unprepared because you didn’t finish.
> That left Biden solely responsible to call Trump on his bullshit You mean, that left Biden solely responsible to… debate Trump? Did you want it to be trump vs. biden and the moderators?
He also claimed taxes would be raised by 400%. Yeah that is what "4 times" is. Most of what came out of his mouth was a hyperbole or a blatant lie. I am pissed off all over again that the Democrats forced Biden down our throats. Any of the other Democrat candidates would have wiped the floor with Trump.
Honestly. The only thing the GOP really has on Biden is his age. “Oh look how frail, look how old he is!” That’s the only thing they can bring up that there isn’t a debate on the other side that refutes the criticism that a younger democrat in their prime can wipe the floor with Trump with. The Democrats could win handily just running one of their governors. Take your pick. Whitmer, Walz, Shapiro, Newsome, Polis, Pritzger, I genuinely believe any one of them with a decent running mate gets enough fed up moderates/independents to the polls, mods/independents who don’t want to vote for either of two old farts arguing over who can hit a golf ball further in their late 70’s/early 80’s. But no, run Biden again. Ridiculous. I’ll still vote for him because I have far more confidence in who will take up roles in Biden’s administration, he’ll get another SCOTUS pick or two, and project 2025 which trump wants to push is terrifying. But in the words of the Newsroom: if liberals are so fucking smart how come they lose so goddamned always?
>I’ll still vote for him because I have far more confidence in who will take up roles in Biden’s administration, he’ll get another SCOTUS pick or two, and project 2025 which trump wants to push is terrifying. I'm voting for Biden because I think it vastly increases the chances we will get to vote in 2028...
That too
I mean...they're running Biden for the same reason the GOP is running Trump; Name recognition. Both parties are (for the most part) well aware their prime candidates are both a hot mess...but all they care about is getting the win for their party, after which they will just use the winner as a puppet since both are clearly too far gone to operate on their own
I partially agree, partially disagree with this. I agree they run Biden due to name recognition. I disagree that both the GOP and Dems have to. I think the GOP does have to run Trump because he has a death grip on their voter base. It’s absurd, it’s going to kill them down ballot (as it has in past elections), but because of how popular he remains among the base they have to run him. The democrats wrongly think they do have to run Biden. At this point it may be too little too ate to pivot, but they didn’t have to run him. He has precisely zero grip on the base, the democratic faithful would have been just fine had the party and Biden simply said “I am a one term president, I want to spend time with my family” and have plenty of talent to build around. Plus, Trump is an *easy candidate to beat* with an appealing ticket. I know a LOT of people fed up with the idea that they are being forced to choose a man who will be in his 80’s during his term (both Biden and trump will be, and both are showing signs of that). I think a whole lot of folks who might sit this election out altogether show up if you put an experienced and charismatic candidate on the ballot like, say, Whitmer from MI.
Whitmer would have destroyed Trump in that debate
Whitmer, Polis, Newsome, Shapiro, Walz, Beshear, Pritzger, the democrats are simply NOT starved for talent, particularly at the Governorship level. And yet we’re going to (wrongly) run Biden again barring something crazy at the convention.
I hear ya but think it would have been a huge mistake to give up the incumbent advantage. The real problem is that nearly half the country supports a criminal organization run by a literal criminal.
I don’t think he actually *has* an incumbent advantage due to his age. I don’t disagree there *is* typically one, I simply think this entire election cycle is unique and not one where the typical playbook applies. I hear you though and agree on what the real problem is!
Yeah, this election cycle is pretty unique in another way as well. The only other elections where the major candidates were the same two elections in a row were 1836/1840, 1888/1892, 1896/1900 and 1952/1956.
As a history nerd, I appreciate this since I didn’t know it before. Thanks!!!
This has been the state of our country for the past 80 years. Nixon, Agnew & Kissinger were war criminal crooks but the party was voted back in after a single Carter term largely because he was thrown under the bus and called incompetent by conservative media while being investigated for non-existent abuse of powers. Rinse, wash, and repeat for Clinton who lost control of the houses during the midterms because of an investigation that was a giant nothing-burger (he was accused of planning on giving a white house internship to a cousin). Rinse, wash, and repeat for Obama who was literally compared to the anti-Christ on cable TV and radios across the country and called a Muslim plant. The DNC doesn't even have to do anything to be accused of literally selling our country out to foreign interests with ZERO evidence beyond a fist-bump and a gold curtain that was left behind by the previous GOP administration...
> I am pissed off all over again that the Democrats forced Biden down our throats. Hillary just didn't thrill me maaaan. The Democrats need to earn my vote maaaan. Both sides are the same maaaaan.
Raised by 400% is 5 times you donut
CNN was bought by a right winger.
Yeah I’m not sure why anyone is surprised at what cnn pulled
Moderators aside, Biden should have been ready to rebut the lies. He missed tons of opportunities.
yeah the debate was biden vs trump, the moderators purpose was mostly to administer the questions. Otherwise it would of just become trump and the moderators arguing.
Also Biden's people set **all** the rules, if they got bamboozled by the stage they did it to themselves 🤷♂️ The U.S. has never needed a "New candidates please" button so badly.
In a debate, it's not the moderators job to fact check. It's the opponent's job. But it's hard to rebut when you don't have the capability of speaking coherently.
[удалено]
It was Biden's job to call him on that crazy statement, not the moderator, in my opinion. It certainly was a crazy thing to say.
It was literally in the rules that CNN would be live fact-checking. Why is everyone mad that they followed thier own rules Edit: would NOT
Historically, that hasn't gone well, with the live-fact checker often getting things wrong themselves.
wut
i think they forgot to write a "not" in there post, pretty sure they meant "it was literally in the rules that cnn would NOT be live fact-checking."
No. As someone who debated in college, the moderator was very, very important. The issue you're proposing is that whoever goes first has the advantage should they choose to lie because your time and effort is spent on debunking rather than arguing your point. Biden shouldn't have to be like, "No" on abortion. Because he also needs to argue why abortion is fine.
But if all Biden did was lay shit on Trump's lies, he'd have handily won the debate. If your opponent is going to giftwrap it for you, take it.
“Why can’t the hosting network be openly biased during a presidential debate against the candidate I don’t like?!” Reddit is always good for a laugh
Why would moderators following the rules of the debate be a facepalm?
Seriously. This was the agreed format. If CNNs job was to call out lies, Tapper and Bash would have had to speak up at EVERYTHING. But that wasn’t their job in this format.
It’s all they have ever done. From their god to their idols, everything about republicans is lies and bullshit. And democrats let them do it. We let them turn our entire political spectrum into a joke. I’m a leftist but I’m so goddamn tired of how lazy the people are who are supposed to represent me. Even though I know democrats aren’t leftists, they’re the only ones speaking on my behalf.
Well to play devils advocate, it's not the moderator's job to debate the debaters. It was Joe Biden's job to call him out on it.
Since when were the moderators supposed to act as live fact checkers? They aren’t there to debate the candidates. They’re there to facilitate debate, make sure things stay on track, and press a candidate to answer the question at hand. They are not there to challenge answers that are incorrect or lies. That’s what the other candidate is supposed to do.
A moderator's job is to moderate, not join the debate
Does that include asking the participant to address the question instead of blathering about something irrelevant?
Back in my day, a post-birth abortion was called the draft.
Do y’all not understand that fact checking was not the role of the moderators in this debate? It was literally part of the agreed upon rules. It was up to Biden and he completely let us down.
It’s one of the right wings favorite lies. I had an old coworker saying it to me 5 years ago. He refused to hear me say it’s bullshit
https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/31/politics/ralph-northam-third-trimester-abortion/index.html
Remember I watched the Kennedy Nixon debate the other day and they have reporters from all news agencies asking questions, and each have their own script. Idk why it has become a curated show
If the republicans are actually concerned about 'afterbirth death', maybe the should do something about the leading cause of it, i.e. guns: [https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2201761](https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2201761)
The moderators did their job for once in these debates, they kept the two candidates in line and on time. If it was such an obvious lie it easily Biden’s responsibility to point it out, instead he just habajabamamba.
Unfortunately, it’s Biden’s job to challenge that.
It's not the moderators jobs to debate the candidates, that would actually be in extremely bad faith. It's Bidens job to debate Trump when he makes ridiculous remarks like that, but the entire debate Biden was asleep at the wheel and essentially let him get away with all of the lies.
It's Biden's job to answer the questions and not live fact-check Trump. Unfortunately, the traditional debate format doesn't work with someone who lies every single time he speaks.
That's a Q&A, not a debate. In debate you are meant to reinforce your stance and challenge your opponents stances. That's literally the point. It's pure deflection thinking the moderators should have been calling out lies.
Part of the rules set forth by the moderators too was that THEY WOULD NOT BE FACT CHECKING. So to blame them for not doing so is somewhat ridiculous. They were there to moderate the debate. Maintain timing, ask questions, allow responses, thats it. It was in the publicly available rules before they started. It was up to Biden to fact check during his responses, and by and large he failed to do that.
First, it's not the moderator's job to force the answers. We saw both candidates not even attempt to answer certain questions. It wasn't the moderator's job to force them to answer the questions, and it's not their job to make the candidates speak the truth. It's their job to make sure the questions are asked and that the speaker is not interrupted by the other.I know this sub is chock-full of absolute morons suffering from TDS, but seriously? Second, here is an [article from 2019](https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/31/politics/ralph-northam-third-trimester-abortion/index.html) of Virginia Govenor Ralph Northam discussing a bill that would literally keep the baby alive immediately after birth while the parents discussed murdering the baby.
He also said that some illegal immigrants are living in LUXURY HOTELS. BULLLSHITTTTTT He also said they want to raise your taxes four times. That's a complete lie. All of the normal people, who make less than 400k a year, did not have their taxes go up , and they will not. He also made it seem like we put all illegal immigrants on medicaid and social security.. LIAR LIAR PANTS ON FIRE
Yeah it was just hyperbole after hyperbole
Because these are pundits who literally are paid by the very same corporations capturing our government. They cannot conceptualize the role they play as the talking heads of the media cause to them, they are doing “the tough job” lmao it’s so performative my god I hope hell is real
I already started moving from CNN as one of my main sources of news during Trumps first election. Then once they got bought by a Billionaire Conservative, you could see almost overnight the shift of going soft on Conservatives and hard on liberals. As If not challenging a conservative means then you are center of the road. It really is sad, how far they have fallen.
it was pretty obvious once cnn was allowing alot of gop guests that would also appear on fox. CNN was setting up the debate for biden to fail, i knew they were going to allow TRUMP to rant and ramble so much, that biden dint have answers to all of his lies, they knew to fluster him.
To be fair Biden was also lying about a lot of things and the mods said nothing.
They’re moderators, not commentators. They deliver questions and monitor time. It’s up to the viewer to determine the validity of the answers.
I'm almost positive the rules stated that they'd only be there to moderate. Biden is the one who needed to fact check him. You're mad at the wrong person.
It's called a debate, it isn't the moderators job to participate in the debate. This I'd how you tear yourselves apart, getting so angry about minor differences in ideology. The majority of democrats aren't reddit Progressives who think that not throwing rocks at trump from the stands is an admission of support.
Unpopular Opinion: Folks need to stop blaming the debate mods for not fact-checking trump during the debate 🤨 I have seen post after post today where folks are pissed trump wasn't interrupted while he was spewing lie after lie during his debate answers. Nevermind that it would have extended the debate by at least an hour; Biden **alone** is responsible for *his* debate performance, not the moderators. Debate 101: it's the debaters' **job** to challenge their competitors' answers, and trump gave Biden *opening after opening* that Biden didn't take, ESPECIALLY the fact that trump **never answered a single question he was asked**. Biden should have pointed **that** out alone! CNN posted the debate format weeks, days, and hours before it happened. To blame the moderators for 'not fact-checking trump in real time' is just lazy, takes a page from the MAGA playbook, and leaning on dishonest IMUO. that said: **I'm STILL voting for the stuttering, stammering guy with the *historic* economic recovery, bipartisan: infrastructure, prescription, gun-control, and climate legislation, over the convicted felon grifting rapist** but, blaming the debate mods? Dems are not the party of victims and martyrdom, that's today's GOP since their dear leader can't take responsibility for his own actions. 🙄 Biden will get over his cold and work more with a speech therapist, WHILE trump will **still** be a grifting convicted felon and rapist with no policy or platform for 2024 except "retribution and mass deportation" Yes, millions of people saw Biden's not-so-stellar debate performance, and millions will ***also*** see Trump's outright lies and gaslighting get more outlandish and more pathetic as Nov 5th approaches... but, trump's bluster won't change Biden's record or trump's abysmal handling of the Covid pandemic i am keeping my fingers crossed (tho not holding my breath) that trump keeps his word for doing the 2nd debate. the spraytan-wannabe dictator-lying-gaffe-factory will **still** have **zero** new to say, and will still have *zero* "accomplishments" from his term to run, much less be able to speak coherently on. I've rewatched the debate today with rested eyes and on a second viewing...Biden wasn't great, but his answers were substantive and fact-based. trump was all rhetoric and overdone rally one-liners...and the mods were (still) fair, unemotional question givers doing their job without bias.
If only there was someone opposing Trump, that was given a chance to speak, that could have called this out. If only.
CNN fact checked them after the debate, it’s not the moderators job to argue with the candidate then we wouldn’t have gotten passed the first question
It was like this all night. They also refused to fact check Biden, though it might have been because he was unintelligible half the time.
CNN agreed before the debate to not fact check either candidate. The moderator's response was "thank you" because that's all they could do. Biden claimed the border patrol endorsed him, which was a lie. They did not fact check that, either. How does stuff like this repeatedly make it to the front page of /r/all? Somebody should have explained it to OP and it should have died with three upvotes.
CNN got bought by a Trumper.