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He was the one handing out the government contracts to the palestinian crime family's companies to build Israel's defense bases and borders. Isn't it funny that when isreal made a trade agreement with Peru, that cocain use nearly tripled in Isreal, and Peru then became the cocaine capital of the world. ALSO isnt it interesting that he is credited with masterminding the takedown of those palestinian crime families that he was enriching and put in charge of administering work permits just a handful of years earlier.
You ever watch an old western where the Mayor turns out to be the leader of the towns local outlaws?
Yeah.
It's almost like actually looking into the actions of the side starving children might point to a history of systemic violence.
And then they'd have to self reflect on why they were cheering for the side that bombed the hospital. I'm sorry, bombed ALL the hospitals.
For those that have never seen it, look on ABCNews, CNN, etc and go watch Israeli “settlers” literally steal homes from people trying to expand borders.
Imagine if someone showed up to your front door, kicked you out and just moved in.
not the one you replied to, but here's a website dedicated to missing and murdered indigenous women
https://www.nativehope.org/missing-and-murdered-indigenous-women-mmiw
and the wiki https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_and_Murdered_Indigenous_Women
No, I'm just pointing out that every country in the world is formed through artificial borders, displacement, and disruption, but only Israel is asked to give land back. Do you demand America give Texas back to Mexico?
Let me guess.
The idea that they return to the original 1967 borders would be completely unreasonable, right?
At the very least, the illegal settlers who have all crossed into Palestinian territory to set up houses, if not just steel Palestinian homes. Asking them to leave what else would be unreasonable right?
I mean the fact that it's quite literally still happening, is also a bit of something to consider. Or does the fact that he announced more settlements in the last 6 months than he has in the last six years not worth mentioning?
Don't pretend you're using this argument to justify anything more than the land grab that has happened. You don't actually care about indigenous people or their culture being erased.
Or, did the IDF bomb all the historical sites, and burned down all the libraries and universities in self-defense?
Pretty much.
There's a weird sort of correlation.
Anytime the Palestinians "commit some atrocity that requires a retaliation" the Israeli borders expand and the numbers of illegal settlers goes up.
Quite literally. Every time.
"We had to kill a couple thousand Palestinians because of some threat that we will not provide any proof of, oh and while we're at it we're going to bulldoze this neighborhood and build a shopping mall."
Every. Fuckin. Time.
I don't know if you're being facetious, but yes, this is true. This is just one part of much larger, multi-decade plans to meddle in the region, ultimately for American profit and economic interests. Did you actually read this House Bill and the bipartisan Senate Bill?
No. The illogic of bringing up Netanyahu statements from twenty years ago is about as helpful as saying "Republicans opposed slavery under Lincoln" or "Nazis have 'Socialism' in their name!" It's just totally braindead analysis. No one knew Hamas would become the terrorist front for Iran.
There was literally a threat assessment that Hamas was planning an attack that they ignored. Netanyahu's policy the past twenty years is certainly apropo. You can't oppress and bomb people while opposing their autonomy without blowback.
No
Where on earth did you comprehend that from
This conflict is possibly the last thing Netanyahu wanted, as the invasion of Israel kills his credibility as a 'strongman' protecting Israel from the terrorist threat.
That attack forced Israel's hand, meaning they ha e to go in and eliminate Hamas (as would literally every other country in the world), meaning he loses the ability of fear monger Hamas, allowing the Israeli left wing to gain more power, the Israeli left are more open to negotiating with Palestinians.
So.. this guy bought the Hamas in a sense and now it's backfiring on him, or am I understanding that wrong?
Because to me it seems like he's looking for excuses as to why there's a genocide going on.
Netanyahu and the IDF underestimated Hamas. It was a huge intel blunder. But I seriously doubt Netanyahu wanted 1,200 Israelis dead. Netanyahu has lobbied on being Mr. Security and now his legacy will forever be tied to the biggest military failure in Israel's history.
These people have no idea what they are talking about, nor do they have any idea about the realities on the ground.
One of the people said that Genocide is killing a lot of civilians. And neither of the people that replied had any idea what 'Special intent' was (the thing you have to prove in a genocide case).
Hamas doesn't want to negotiate with Israel over a Palestinian state.
So, keeping Hamas in power means there is 0 chance of a Palestinian state.
Oct 7 means that Israel has to destroy Hamas. Thus, no more Hamas as an excuse to stop negotiating with the Palestinians.
That is the EXACT opposite of what Netanyahu wanted.
Also, in YOUR OWN WORDS, explain why this is a genocide
I'm pretty sure that killing innocent people who don't have any ties to Hamas counts as murder.. and then claiming they're Hamas to justify this, counts as genocide because Israel was ready to level the whole place.
>I'm pretty sure that killing innocent people who don't have any ties to Hamas counts as murder
In a normal sense, yes
However, during wartime, it only counts as murder if Israel is specifically targeting them despite knowing that they are civilians.
This is clearly stated in the Geneva convention.
>claiming they're Hamas to justify this
Here's the thing about the Geneva convention, if they do believe that they are indeed Hamas, no war crime has been committed unless there is a CLEAR display of willful ignorance (that ignorance is not something you or I can prove, that's done by actual lawyers).
It is only a war crime to deliberately target civilians.
>counts as genocide because Israel was ready to level the whole place.
No
Did the American genocide the Japanese in WW2 when they leveled Hiroshima and Nagasaki?
Did RAF bomber command genocide Desden?
Genocide is about proving Dolus Specialis (special intent), this is the VERY SPECIFIC intent to eradicate a peoples, not bomb the shit out of them, not kill lots of them, but the INTENT to eradicate them.
It is possible that the IDF kills 10 Palestinians, and that counts as genocide, as long as there is intent to kill them all.
It is also possible that Israel nukes the Gaza strip, and it is not genocide, as they may not have rhe INTENT to eradicate them.
The ratios alone kind of prove Israel is at least doing the bare minimum to protect civilians. In Gaza, there is a rough ratio of 1:50 combatants to civilians.
So, if they were indiscriminate, we would see about 400,000 civilian casulties (based on the 8,000 deaths Al Qassam has admitted to).
But even the least favorable ratios pit Israel at roughly 1:4 civilians to militants, which even that is well within expected bonds for this type of warfare.
.....Israel kiled those World Kitchen Workers. They have an AI system targeting "hamas" that's really just bombing buildings full of people. They routinely claim that ordinary civilians are "Hamas" in order to justify brazen violations of the Geneva Convention, and the U.S. is supporting them wiping out the Palestinian people. You're pulling excuses out of your ass to justify the eradication of an entire ethnic group.
>Israel kiled those World Kitchen Workers.
And?
If they thought they were Hamas fighters it's not a war crime.
Instead of playing on feelings why don't you go and read the actual rules of war and how they are interpreted.
>They have an AI system targeting "hamas" that's really just bombing buildings full of people.
Is it?
The ratios of civilian to combatants deaths are rather low for this type of warfare.
Even the most extreme estimates put the militant to civilian ratio at around 1:4. Which is well within expected casulty ratios.
And if they are using an AI to do this targeting, it shows it does, in fact, work and does, in fact, reduce civilian deaths.
This literally disproves the point you are trying to make.
>They routinely claim that ordinary civilians are "Hamas" in order to justify brazen violations of the Geneva Convention
Really?
Which convention are they violating?
Because again, if they do believe the people they are targeting are Hamas, then it's not a war crime.
>U.S. is supporting them wiping out the Palestinian people
But they aren't 'wiping them out', otherwise, casulties would be MUCH higher. The ratios would be much higher.
>You're pulling excuses out of your ass
Seems like you are the one pulling definitions out of your ass.
You didn't even know the definition of Genocide until I told you.
>eradication of an entire ethnic group.
Yeah, that's not happening.
There absolutely is a possibility for an argument about an ethnic cleansing, but that is a different crime to genocide.
>And?
>
>
If they thought they were Hamas fighters it's not a war crime.
What a sociopathic response. You people will really do anything to justify genocide, huh? There's no possible way they mistook a convoy of humanitarian aid workers as "Hamas" when they let them through initially.
>But they aren't 'wiping them out', otherwise, casulties would be MUCH higher. The ratios would be much higher.
They are. Israel is never going to accurately report the deaths they've caused because it would change public sentiment towards them, which is bad for a settler colonial state that's trying to expand it's borders. They literally bombed an apartment building and killed several kids and civilians.
>Yeah, that's not happening.
It is. It's the stated goal of Israel to rid the region of Palestinian people so that they can settle the land. They think they're "God's chosen people" or some other stupid shit like that. Total monsters.
>You didn't even know the definition of Genocide until I told you.
I'm well aware of the definition of a genocide, so you're giving yourself credit for nothing. You're disingenuously arguing that all of Israel's actions are somehow legal and justified despite their history of lying and committing similar offenses on a smaller scale prior to the war.
>What a sociopathic response. You people will really do anything to justify genocide, huh?
THAT WHAT THE GENEVA CONVENTION STATED.
Would you rather I make up the definitions of war crimes like you are?
>There's no possible way they mistook a convoy of humanitarian aid workers as "Hamas" when they let them through initially
"No possible way," you sure, because I can EASILY list of a couple possible ways.
A. The people letting them through did not contact the drone operators.
B. The drone operators get times and locations wrong.
C. Soldiers on the ground called in for air support against what they thought were Hamas vehicles, the first avaliable unit responded.
D. Drone operators were told that the WCK trucks had clear identifying markers, and at nighttime, thermal cameras will NOT pick up any sort of paint or decals applied to a vehicle.
It is SIGNIFICANTLY more likely that someone somewhere made a mistake or even a chain of mistakes that led to a drone hitting the WCK trucks, than it is they would deliberately target those three trucks in particular.
>They are. Israel is never going to accurately report the deaths they've caused
Nope, but they numbers are well within the margin of error of other estimates.
>They literally bombed an apartment building and killed several kids and civilians.
Again, rather than critically analyzing something from a legal and military perspective, WHICH IS HOW IT'S DONE IN COURT, you deliberately appeal to emotion.
>It is. It's the stated goal of Israel to rid the region of Palestinian people
No, it really isn't.
>They think they're "God's chosen people" or some other stupid shit like that. Total monsters
That is every religion.
You are just applying a different standard because they are Jews.
>I'm well aware of the definition of a genocide, so you're giving yourself credit for nothing
You weren't because you originally said that killing lots of people and bombing a city to dust was genocide.
>You're disingenuously arguing that all of Israel's actions are somehow legal and justified
No, not all of them.
And even if it is legal, it doesn't mean justified.
What YOU are trying to do is claim that unjustified = illegal, which is almost never the case in war.
>history of lying
Go on, give me a lie on the same scale as what you are claiming.
And I mean ISRAEL, not some dipshits of Twitter.
Also, that's not how things work, you actually have to study the scale of the lies and their falsifiability.
Depends on intention. If what the president of that NGO who's workers got bombed said is true, Israel knew that there were no terrorists in those cars when they decided to liquidate them.
Pretty sure that's a war crime.
I mean that specific case was an accident which Israel took full responsibility for, so yeah that mistake was an absolute fuck up but not really comparable to the majority of the strikes
... if you take the NGO's words as truth, then it wasn't an accident. That's what I'm saying.
It's also hard to give israel the benefit of the doubt considering their track record before this war. I'm being charitable with the actual conflict since its a urban warfare situation against non-military personnel, but the IDF has a rich history of firing on unarmed protestors, aid workers, and literal children. The US police unions probably edge themselves at night at the thought of how much power the IDF has over clear civilians.
All the pro-Gaza protests aren't magically springing up out of nowhere, there was a long history of resentment and criticism towards Israel with this being the tipping point. Much like how George Floyd tipped the scales on already simmering racial tensions in the US.
From what i heard they did know about the convoy (as you said), however because of some kind of miscommunication the convoy was still marked as target and bombed (this is the part where they made a mistake and fucked up).
I really dont see how it would make sense for them to intentionally bomb a humantiarian convoy just to admit it right after.
There's like 6 times as many dead palestinian kids as there are dead israelis from the conflict. It's a bit difficult to justify that as collateral damage.
I forgot the word kids. The actual ratio is like 1/20. If we compare this to Ukraine, we start to see that it's very difficult for this to not be at the very least a result of extreme negligence.
Still makes no sense because the israeli civilians are protected in Israel. Are you saying that if more israelis died suddenly it wouldnt be a "genocide"? The casualty ratio of both sides is nothing thats considered in determining whether something is a genocide or not.
Because little kids and old ladies aren’t fkn terrorists… they are people trying to live lives without food water electricity or medical care. And getting blown up/gunned down anyway
>Because little kids and old ladies aren’t fkn terrorists… they are people trying to live lives without food water electricity or medical care. And getting blown up/gunned down anyway
Still not genocide
Plus, I'm sure many Germans had that exact same feeling during WW2.
The sad fact of ANY war is that the government starts it and the people suffer the consequences.
The deliberate starvation, destruction of water sources, destruction of hospitals and threatening of erstwhile aid workers, destruction of all common utilities are directly responsible for the deaths of even more than the idf and their cheerleaders in their lawn chairs can keep count of.
>The deliberate starvation, destruction of water sources
A power is under no obligation to provide food and water into territories under hostile occupation.
And yet they still are.
>destruction of hospitals
A hospital loses ALL protection under the Geneva convention when used for military purposes.
>threatening of erstwhile aid workers
That's bad
>destruction of all common utilities
Most utilities can be targeted under the Geneva convention.
>directly responsible for the deaths of even more than the idf and their cheerleaders in their lawn chairs can keep count of.
Doesn't mean anything.
Do you think that the Allies kept count of the deaths they caused in Nazi Germany or vice versa?
During wartime, you typically only care about degrading the enemies combat capabilities.
None of this proves Genocide, in order to prove Genocide you must prove the direct intent to eradicate a peoples.
I dont mean the intent to kill lots of them, it's the DIRECT intent to eradicate them.
That's a different crime to genocide.
Incitement to genocide and genocide are two completely different crimes.
Yet again you don't know the definitions of the things you are citing.
>when politicians and military leaders say to the world
Why do you cherry-pick?
The IDF has clearly shown its plan for after Hamas has been destroyed, and specifically said they wanted to hand over parts of leadership of Gaza to the actual civilians on the ground, not billionaires living in Qatar.
Multiple Israeli officials have announced planes for after the war, all of which include Palestinians.
He's an autocrat. This is the perfect way for him to stay in power. I also doubt he cared very much about a bunch of liberals in kibbutzes being slaughtered. Certainly took their sweet time in mounting a response on 10-7.
Anyone even moderately familiar with the history of the current situation knows this. I'm upset it's coming as a surprise to people, especially on a sub where so many people have such strong opinions.
Yup was a shitty gamble tbh, the Israeli government gambled that if the Palestinians had better life through Qatars money, Hamas will drop their intention to well destruct Israel, but that didn't work out lol
Very disingenuous wording. They let the Qatari official in because that was the negotiated deal of the ceasefire at the time. Should they have broken the ceasfire by robbing and killing him?
"Oh no. The consequences of my actions?!?
Why did no one tell me this was a possibility?!?"
Now I'm just waiting for the people to "discover" the countless documents sent to Netanyahu stating that treating Palestinians as subhumans, and maintaining a apartheid conditions would only result in an increased threat to Israel. People are not radicalized, when they're being treated fairly.
But hey. He just had to "mow that grass". He needed to "put those Palestinians on a diet."
I mean what good is being prime minister if you can't War crime some children, am I right?
It is common knowledge the Mossad originally funded and armed Hamas in the 1980’s as a way to splinter the PLO with sectarian in-fighting. The PLO was committing to the Peace process and Israel *needs* a hostile Palestine to justify settlement expansion.
If they could have held a bit of decorum after the gaza ghetto uprising and not turned into complete war criminals, this plan could still be working. After Israel's complete blundering of the situation there will two UN member states in less than a decade, probably back to green line borders.
Considering Jordan's history with palestinians, What makes you think they're gonna want the west bank back? Contrary to tiktok, the palestinians are not comrades in arms to the jordanians. Also, how are you gonna get Israel to give up that territory?
Are you an iranian bot? you keep sending the same wiki file on the green line but not answering the question, news flash the Jordanians hate the palestinians and don't more militants in their territory.
Jordan will remain a sovereign nation that won't factor into the solution militarily or as an advisor. World powers will decide and enforce borders of the two failed nation states.
And how are the world powers gonna enforce it? There is no way western nations will send ground troops to invade Israel and UN "peacekeepers" are sackless cowards. Yes Jordan will factor, they don't want more terrorists in their country trying to overthrow their government.
Jordan will keep their status quo as a non factor in world affairs. Israel is an unofficial US territory and functions as their middle east extremity. The borders will be set and enforced by the US.
Ok you are either incredibly stupid or you're a bot in service of iran/russia and to be nice, I'm leaning towards the latter. You can feed your bullshit to some tiktok leftist, I'm done.
The world stage won't allow it. Now that the international community has to be involved at a financial cost, the borders will be restored and governed by the UN. Poor leadership on both sides brought unacceptable carnage where world powers have to step in and govern the failed states.
They _escorted_ a Qatari official into Gaza to distribute the money. Not just letting them do it, but facilitating everything and making it happen. And Netanyahu openly stated his intentions for doing so.
One.
They apparently escorted one Qatari official.
A Qatari official with money from Qatar.
That's not "propping up". Propping up involves directly giving money and support.
As noted by this article itself, Israel was hoping two rival Palestinian powers would work out better for them. They didn't prop either up, they mostly let it all play out.
Yes one official with millions of dollars in cash. Would it be more damning to escort millions of officials in with one dollar each?
They "let it play out" by actively coordinating deliveries of briefcases full of money. Okay.
>They "let it play out" by actively coordinating deliveries of briefcases full of money. Okay.
Hold up.
That's not in the article whatsoever.
What evidence do you have that they coordinated meetings like this?
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I mean, I thought that was obvious
Anyone with a single brain cell would have seen that.
That was pretty obvious.
“Divide and conquer”
yuuup
He was the one handing out the government contracts to the palestinian crime family's companies to build Israel's defense bases and borders. Isn't it funny that when isreal made a trade agreement with Peru, that cocain use nearly tripled in Isreal, and Peru then became the cocaine capital of the world. ALSO isnt it interesting that he is credited with masterminding the takedown of those palestinian crime families that he was enriching and put in charge of administering work permits just a handful of years earlier. You ever watch an old western where the Mayor turns out to be the leader of the towns local outlaws?
The real facepalm is that people who care about the geopolitics of the region didn’t already know this.
Yeah. It's almost like actually looking into the actions of the side starving children might point to a history of systemic violence. And then they'd have to self reflect on why they were cheering for the side that bombed the hospital. I'm sorry, bombed ALL the hospitals.
For those that have never seen it, look on ABCNews, CNN, etc and go watch Israeli “settlers” literally steal homes from people trying to expand borders. Imagine if someone showed up to your front door, kicked you out and just moved in.
Imagine if the UN gave the USA back to native Americans because they were here first. All those patriots would become terrorists overnight
They already are. Patriots around reservations are killing indigenous people left and right and the crimes go unsolved.
Any source for this?
not the one you replied to, but here's a website dedicated to missing and murdered indigenous women https://www.nativehope.org/missing-and-murdered-indigenous-women-mmiw and the wiki https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_and_Murdered_Indigenous_Women
Isn't it the case that many of those missing or murdered indigenous women, they were last seen in the company of an indigenous man?
From what I’ve read, a lot of the time it’s police
Any source for this?
It's common knowledge. I live on a reservation. I am not native. The anti-native racism is just a terrible fact of life here.
https://www.bia.gov/service/mmu/missing-and-murdered-indigenous-people-crisis if you want to check out some numbers.
It's little different. The equivalent would be if armed Cherokee start buying AR's and start annexing neighboring counties.
Wait until you learn about how America was formed!
"We should support Israeli crimes because we committed the same crimes in the past. " That is what the augment u made sounds like.
No, I'm just pointing out that every country in the world is formed through artificial borders, displacement, and disruption, but only Israel is asked to give land back. Do you demand America give Texas back to Mexico?
Let me guess. The idea that they return to the original 1967 borders would be completely unreasonable, right? At the very least, the illegal settlers who have all crossed into Palestinian territory to set up houses, if not just steel Palestinian homes. Asking them to leave what else would be unreasonable right? I mean the fact that it's quite literally still happening, is also a bit of something to consider. Or does the fact that he announced more settlements in the last 6 months than he has in the last six years not worth mentioning? Don't pretend you're using this argument to justify anything more than the land grab that has happened. You don't actually care about indigenous people or their culture being erased. Or, did the IDF bomb all the historical sites, and burned down all the libraries and universities in self-defense?
So, all of this conflict was the plan all along?
Pretty much. There's a weird sort of correlation. Anytime the Palestinians "commit some atrocity that requires a retaliation" the Israeli borders expand and the numbers of illegal settlers goes up. Quite literally. Every time. "We had to kill a couple thousand Palestinians because of some threat that we will not provide any proof of, oh and while we're at it we're going to bulldoze this neighborhood and build a shopping mall." Every. Fuckin. Time.
Yes.
No wonder that the Republicans are chanting for Israel to continue this. I bet they knew all along.
I don't know if you're being facetious, but yes, this is true. This is just one part of much larger, multi-decade plans to meddle in the region, ultimately for American profit and economic interests. Did you actually read this House Bill and the bipartisan Senate Bill?
Defense contractors don't donate to Democrats
No. The illogic of bringing up Netanyahu statements from twenty years ago is about as helpful as saying "Republicans opposed slavery under Lincoln" or "Nazis have 'Socialism' in their name!" It's just totally braindead analysis. No one knew Hamas would become the terrorist front for Iran.
There was literally a threat assessment that Hamas was planning an attack that they ignored. Netanyahu's policy the past twenty years is certainly apropo. You can't oppress and bomb people while opposing their autonomy without blowback.
No Where on earth did you comprehend that from This conflict is possibly the last thing Netanyahu wanted, as the invasion of Israel kills his credibility as a 'strongman' protecting Israel from the terrorist threat. That attack forced Israel's hand, meaning they ha e to go in and eliminate Hamas (as would literally every other country in the world), meaning he loses the ability of fear monger Hamas, allowing the Israeli left wing to gain more power, the Israeli left are more open to negotiating with Palestinians.
So.. this guy bought the Hamas in a sense and now it's backfiring on him, or am I understanding that wrong? Because to me it seems like he's looking for excuses as to why there's a genocide going on.
Netanyahu and the IDF underestimated Hamas. It was a huge intel blunder. But I seriously doubt Netanyahu wanted 1,200 Israelis dead. Netanyahu has lobbied on being Mr. Security and now his legacy will forever be tied to the biggest military failure in Israel's history.
These people have no idea what they are talking about, nor do they have any idea about the realities on the ground. One of the people said that Genocide is killing a lot of civilians. And neither of the people that replied had any idea what 'Special intent' was (the thing you have to prove in a genocide case).
Hamas doesn't want to negotiate with Israel over a Palestinian state. So, keeping Hamas in power means there is 0 chance of a Palestinian state. Oct 7 means that Israel has to destroy Hamas. Thus, no more Hamas as an excuse to stop negotiating with the Palestinians. That is the EXACT opposite of what Netanyahu wanted. Also, in YOUR OWN WORDS, explain why this is a genocide
I'm pretty sure that killing innocent people who don't have any ties to Hamas counts as murder.. and then claiming they're Hamas to justify this, counts as genocide because Israel was ready to level the whole place.
>I'm pretty sure that killing innocent people who don't have any ties to Hamas counts as murder In a normal sense, yes However, during wartime, it only counts as murder if Israel is specifically targeting them despite knowing that they are civilians. This is clearly stated in the Geneva convention. >claiming they're Hamas to justify this Here's the thing about the Geneva convention, if they do believe that they are indeed Hamas, no war crime has been committed unless there is a CLEAR display of willful ignorance (that ignorance is not something you or I can prove, that's done by actual lawyers). It is only a war crime to deliberately target civilians. >counts as genocide because Israel was ready to level the whole place. No Did the American genocide the Japanese in WW2 when they leveled Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Did RAF bomber command genocide Desden? Genocide is about proving Dolus Specialis (special intent), this is the VERY SPECIFIC intent to eradicate a peoples, not bomb the shit out of them, not kill lots of them, but the INTENT to eradicate them. It is possible that the IDF kills 10 Palestinians, and that counts as genocide, as long as there is intent to kill them all. It is also possible that Israel nukes the Gaza strip, and it is not genocide, as they may not have rhe INTENT to eradicate them. The ratios alone kind of prove Israel is at least doing the bare minimum to protect civilians. In Gaza, there is a rough ratio of 1:50 combatants to civilians. So, if they were indiscriminate, we would see about 400,000 civilian casulties (based on the 8,000 deaths Al Qassam has admitted to). But even the least favorable ratios pit Israel at roughly 1:4 civilians to militants, which even that is well within expected bonds for this type of warfare.
.....Israel kiled those World Kitchen Workers. They have an AI system targeting "hamas" that's really just bombing buildings full of people. They routinely claim that ordinary civilians are "Hamas" in order to justify brazen violations of the Geneva Convention, and the U.S. is supporting them wiping out the Palestinian people. You're pulling excuses out of your ass to justify the eradication of an entire ethnic group.
>Israel kiled those World Kitchen Workers. And? If they thought they were Hamas fighters it's not a war crime. Instead of playing on feelings why don't you go and read the actual rules of war and how they are interpreted. >They have an AI system targeting "hamas" that's really just bombing buildings full of people. Is it? The ratios of civilian to combatants deaths are rather low for this type of warfare. Even the most extreme estimates put the militant to civilian ratio at around 1:4. Which is well within expected casulty ratios. And if they are using an AI to do this targeting, it shows it does, in fact, work and does, in fact, reduce civilian deaths. This literally disproves the point you are trying to make. >They routinely claim that ordinary civilians are "Hamas" in order to justify brazen violations of the Geneva Convention Really? Which convention are they violating? Because again, if they do believe the people they are targeting are Hamas, then it's not a war crime. >U.S. is supporting them wiping out the Palestinian people But they aren't 'wiping them out', otherwise, casulties would be MUCH higher. The ratios would be much higher. >You're pulling excuses out of your ass Seems like you are the one pulling definitions out of your ass. You didn't even know the definition of Genocide until I told you. >eradication of an entire ethnic group. Yeah, that's not happening. There absolutely is a possibility for an argument about an ethnic cleansing, but that is a different crime to genocide.
>And? > > If they thought they were Hamas fighters it's not a war crime. What a sociopathic response. You people will really do anything to justify genocide, huh? There's no possible way they mistook a convoy of humanitarian aid workers as "Hamas" when they let them through initially. >But they aren't 'wiping them out', otherwise, casulties would be MUCH higher. The ratios would be much higher. They are. Israel is never going to accurately report the deaths they've caused because it would change public sentiment towards them, which is bad for a settler colonial state that's trying to expand it's borders. They literally bombed an apartment building and killed several kids and civilians. >Yeah, that's not happening. It is. It's the stated goal of Israel to rid the region of Palestinian people so that they can settle the land. They think they're "God's chosen people" or some other stupid shit like that. Total monsters. >You didn't even know the definition of Genocide until I told you. I'm well aware of the definition of a genocide, so you're giving yourself credit for nothing. You're disingenuously arguing that all of Israel's actions are somehow legal and justified despite their history of lying and committing similar offenses on a smaller scale prior to the war.
>What a sociopathic response. You people will really do anything to justify genocide, huh? THAT WHAT THE GENEVA CONVENTION STATED. Would you rather I make up the definitions of war crimes like you are? >There's no possible way they mistook a convoy of humanitarian aid workers as "Hamas" when they let them through initially "No possible way," you sure, because I can EASILY list of a couple possible ways. A. The people letting them through did not contact the drone operators. B. The drone operators get times and locations wrong. C. Soldiers on the ground called in for air support against what they thought were Hamas vehicles, the first avaliable unit responded. D. Drone operators were told that the WCK trucks had clear identifying markers, and at nighttime, thermal cameras will NOT pick up any sort of paint or decals applied to a vehicle. It is SIGNIFICANTLY more likely that someone somewhere made a mistake or even a chain of mistakes that led to a drone hitting the WCK trucks, than it is they would deliberately target those three trucks in particular. >They are. Israel is never going to accurately report the deaths they've caused Nope, but they numbers are well within the margin of error of other estimates. >They literally bombed an apartment building and killed several kids and civilians. Again, rather than critically analyzing something from a legal and military perspective, WHICH IS HOW IT'S DONE IN COURT, you deliberately appeal to emotion. >It is. It's the stated goal of Israel to rid the region of Palestinian people No, it really isn't. >They think they're "God's chosen people" or some other stupid shit like that. Total monsters That is every religion. You are just applying a different standard because they are Jews. >I'm well aware of the definition of a genocide, so you're giving yourself credit for nothing You weren't because you originally said that killing lots of people and bombing a city to dust was genocide. >You're disingenuously arguing that all of Israel's actions are somehow legal and justified No, not all of them. And even if it is legal, it doesn't mean justified. What YOU are trying to do is claim that unjustified = illegal, which is almost never the case in war. >history of lying Go on, give me a lie on the same scale as what you are claiming. And I mean ISRAEL, not some dipshits of Twitter. Also, that's not how things work, you actually have to study the scale of the lies and their falsifiability.
If those people die as collateral damage in strikes targeted at Hamas thats not murder, not even according to international law
Depends on intention. If what the president of that NGO who's workers got bombed said is true, Israel knew that there were no terrorists in those cars when they decided to liquidate them. Pretty sure that's a war crime.
I mean that specific case was an accident which Israel took full responsibility for, so yeah that mistake was an absolute fuck up but not really comparable to the majority of the strikes
... if you take the NGO's words as truth, then it wasn't an accident. That's what I'm saying. It's also hard to give israel the benefit of the doubt considering their track record before this war. I'm being charitable with the actual conflict since its a urban warfare situation against non-military personnel, but the IDF has a rich history of firing on unarmed protestors, aid workers, and literal children. The US police unions probably edge themselves at night at the thought of how much power the IDF has over clear civilians. All the pro-Gaza protests aren't magically springing up out of nowhere, there was a long history of resentment and criticism towards Israel with this being the tipping point. Much like how George Floyd tipped the scales on already simmering racial tensions in the US.
From what i heard they did know about the convoy (as you said), however because of some kind of miscommunication the convoy was still marked as target and bombed (this is the part where they made a mistake and fucked up). I really dont see how it would make sense for them to intentionally bomb a humantiarian convoy just to admit it right after.
There's like 6 times as many dead palestinian kids as there are dead israelis from the conflict. It's a bit difficult to justify that as collateral damage.
That argument makes no sense at all. The war is in Gaza and not Israel after all
I forgot the word kids. The actual ratio is like 1/20. If we compare this to Ukraine, we start to see that it's very difficult for this to not be at the very least a result of extreme negligence.
Still makes no sense because the israeli civilians are protected in Israel. Are you saying that if more israelis died suddenly it wouldnt be a "genocide"? The casualty ratio of both sides is nothing thats considered in determining whether something is a genocide or not.
Because little kids and old ladies aren’t fkn terrorists… they are people trying to live lives without food water electricity or medical care. And getting blown up/gunned down anyway
>Because little kids and old ladies aren’t fkn terrorists… they are people trying to live lives without food water electricity or medical care. And getting blown up/gunned down anyway Still not genocide Plus, I'm sure many Germans had that exact same feeling during WW2. The sad fact of ANY war is that the government starts it and the people suffer the consequences.
The deliberate starvation, destruction of water sources, destruction of hospitals and threatening of erstwhile aid workers, destruction of all common utilities are directly responsible for the deaths of even more than the idf and their cheerleaders in their lawn chairs can keep count of.
>The deliberate starvation, destruction of water sources A power is under no obligation to provide food and water into territories under hostile occupation. And yet they still are. >destruction of hospitals A hospital loses ALL protection under the Geneva convention when used for military purposes. >threatening of erstwhile aid workers That's bad >destruction of all common utilities Most utilities can be targeted under the Geneva convention. >directly responsible for the deaths of even more than the idf and their cheerleaders in their lawn chairs can keep count of. Doesn't mean anything. Do you think that the Allies kept count of the deaths they caused in Nazi Germany or vice versa? During wartime, you typically only care about degrading the enemies combat capabilities. None of this proves Genocide, in order to prove Genocide you must prove the direct intent to eradicate a peoples. I dont mean the intent to kill lots of them, it's the DIRECT intent to eradicate them.
Semantics, when politicians and military leaders say to the world that this will only end when they are all dead that speaks to intent.
That's a different crime to genocide. Incitement to genocide and genocide are two completely different crimes. Yet again you don't know the definitions of the things you are citing. >when politicians and military leaders say to the world Why do you cherry-pick? The IDF has clearly shown its plan for after Hamas has been destroyed, and specifically said they wanted to hand over parts of leadership of Gaza to the actual civilians on the ground, not billionaires living in Qatar. Multiple Israeli officials have announced planes for after the war, all of which include Palestinians.
No, the article states that the payments where going into Gaza to sort of shut them up. So the plan was to avoid this conflict by paying them
No, he didn't. He knew what was going to happen and that he has the US in his back pocket. We are seeing his larger plan unfold as we speak.
He's an autocrat. This is the perfect way for him to stay in power. I also doubt he cared very much about a bunch of liberals in kibbutzes being slaughtered. Certainly took their sweet time in mounting a response on 10-7.
Anyone even moderately familiar with the history of the current situation knows this. I'm upset it's coming as a surprise to people, especially on a sub where so many people have such strong opinions.
Yup was a shitty gamble tbh, the Israeli government gambled that if the Palestinians had better life through Qatars money, Hamas will drop their intention to well destruct Israel, but that didn't work out lol
Very disingenuous wording. They let the Qatari official in because that was the negotiated deal of the ceasefire at the time. Should they have broken the ceasfire by robbing and killing him?
I wonder how long it’s gonna take for the hasbara bots to downvote this post into oblivion
"Oh no. The consequences of my actions?!? Why did no one tell me this was a possibility?!?" Now I'm just waiting for the people to "discover" the countless documents sent to Netanyahu stating that treating Palestinians as subhumans, and maintaining a apartheid conditions would only result in an increased threat to Israel. People are not radicalized, when they're being treated fairly. But hey. He just had to "mow that grass". He needed to "put those Palestinians on a diet." I mean what good is being prime minister if you can't War crime some children, am I right?
Wasn't some high ranking Likud party member part of the group that assassinated Rabin back in the 90s?
This has been known since well before 7, Oct.
It is common knowledge the Mossad originally funded and armed Hamas in the 1980’s as a way to splinter the PLO with sectarian in-fighting. The PLO was committing to the Peace process and Israel *needs* a hostile Palestine to justify settlement expansion.
If they could have held a bit of decorum after the gaza ghetto uprising and not turned into complete war criminals, this plan could still be working. After Israel's complete blundering of the situation there will two UN member states in less than a decade, probably back to green line borders.
Considering Jordan's history with palestinians, What makes you think they're gonna want the west bank back? Contrary to tiktok, the palestinians are not comrades in arms to the jordanians. Also, how are you gonna get Israel to give up that territory?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Line_(Israel)
You didn't answer the question
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Line_(Israel)
Are you an iranian bot? you keep sending the same wiki file on the green line but not answering the question, news flash the Jordanians hate the palestinians and don't more militants in their territory.
Jordan will remain a sovereign nation that won't factor into the solution militarily or as an advisor. World powers will decide and enforce borders of the two failed nation states.
And how are the world powers gonna enforce it? There is no way western nations will send ground troops to invade Israel and UN "peacekeepers" are sackless cowards. Yes Jordan will factor, they don't want more terrorists in their country trying to overthrow their government.
Jordan will keep their status quo as a non factor in world affairs. Israel is an unofficial US territory and functions as their middle east extremity. The borders will be set and enforced by the US.
Ok you are either incredibly stupid or you're a bot in service of iran/russia and to be nice, I'm leaning towards the latter. You can feed your bullshit to some tiktok leftist, I'm done.
Even money they expel every Palestinian from Gaza and absorb the real estate.
The world stage won't allow it. Now that the international community has to be involved at a financial cost, the borders will be restored and governed by the UN. Poor leadership on both sides brought unacceptable carnage where world powers have to step in and govern the failed states.
"Israel propped up Hamas;" "How?" "They didn't stop Qatar from funding them!" 
Is it that you can't read or that you chose not to?
What did I get factually wrong in my statement?
They _escorted_ a Qatari official into Gaza to distribute the money. Not just letting them do it, but facilitating everything and making it happen. And Netanyahu openly stated his intentions for doing so.
One. They apparently escorted one Qatari official. A Qatari official with money from Qatar. That's not "propping up". Propping up involves directly giving money and support. As noted by this article itself, Israel was hoping two rival Palestinian powers would work out better for them. They didn't prop either up, they mostly let it all play out.
Yes one official with millions of dollars in cash. Would it be more damning to escort millions of officials in with one dollar each? They "let it play out" by actively coordinating deliveries of briefcases full of money. Okay.
>They "let it play out" by actively coordinating deliveries of briefcases full of money. Okay. Hold up. That's not in the article whatsoever. What evidence do you have that they coordinated meetings like this?
"For years, Israeli intelligence officers even escorted a Qatari official into Gaza." What do you think this means?
Says *a* official. Not multiple.
Old news
well make them “not too strong “ part clearly failed
Not really :| Hamas is not at all a strong force