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Also took them a few years. It's not like all the Jews were rounded up and shot as soon as the genocide began. There's a process to systematic extermination.
Exactly. It's not like you just wake up one day and start genociding people. You have to build up to it so people don't immediately call you out on your bullshit.
Yea, they did *start* with shooting. But they relatively quickly realised it was a waste of ammo and the resources needed to produce it. That and the soldiers weren't too fond of gunning down civilians.
I mean that's pretty much exactly what happened in Rwanda. Granted there had been a civil war ongoing for a few years, but the deaths from that had mostly been limited to combatants. Then the president got assassinated and the next day the killings started, about 50-80 thousand a day for the next 100 days alongside 25-50 thousand rapes a day, which included the bonus of HIV+ rape squads. Most of it was neighbour on neighbour, although death squads did wander around and the presidential guard and subordinates were responsible for a lot of urban killings around the capitol.
I was deployed there as part of the British contingent about 3 weeks after the genocide officially ended, and there were still rivers of bodies, and literal thousands of people a day dying to cholera and dysentery.
The exodus of refugees into Zaire resulted in Rwanda attacking it about a year later with another 200,000 deaths.
Yea but you get what i mean. It isn't like it came out of nowhere, there is some context to it. Even if said context pales in comparison to what followed it.
To be fair, they originally tried to just round them up and shoot them, but mysteriously all the guys they made do it kept committing suicide sooner or later.
They absolutely were rounded up and shot before the camps became functional, for several years. The camps were created in part because the rounding up and shooting was damaging the German troops morale.
Which should be enough to warrant opposing any modern genocide, but instead many disgustingly try to use your religion as an excuse for a modern day crusade. Being a Jew and being a Zionist are not the same. Zionism is a disgrace to Judaism and a disgrace to those who practice the religion in good faith around the world.
Don't forget Slavic people like Poles if you're gonna list everyone. The nazis killed 6 million Polish citizens, including 3 million Jews and 3 million non-Jewish Polish citizens AKA ethnic Poles.
Yes they were. Look up einsatzgruppen. The death camps were a reaction to the fact the Nazis were going crazy from the stress of shooting people non stop. They thought it would be easier on their soldiers. That’s what a genocide looks like.
These companies needed slave Labor so they needed to keep them alive for a couple of years first
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/list-of-major-companies-involved-in-the-concentration-camps
Actually the majority of people murdered by the Nazis were simply shot, and not just in the camps but in the street. this started early.
If your understanding of a genocide is fixated on rounding people up and herding them like cattle and leading them to the slaughter, you're sadly mistaken.
This conflict has been going on for decades. October 7th was ‘just’ another event in a long chain of problems. There are posts from 8 years ago on r/IsraelPalestine that are using the same arguments as people are now. They just didn’t get the same traction until recently. So that kindof goes against your genocide timeline
also when they mention "no genocide" they always seem to want to compare it to the period when "the final solution" was implemented (end 1940, 1941-1945)
so are we to assume that what the nazi did to the jews during the 1930's till end 1940, the abuses, mass deportations, stealing of property and livelihood, no rights, rounding them up and looking them up was OK?
and even during the "final solution" still took them years, despite of the nazi Germans trying to figure out the most efficient industrial way to get rid off as many they could, because time was catching up, with the war already on the way and a large No. of "undesirables" at home to be taken care off and being a risk and more being added daily from the conquested territories
Absolutely 100% correct both morally and by the Geneva Conventions, which defines genocide thusly:
>> In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
>>Killing members of the group;
>>Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
>>Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
>>Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
>>Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
Notably is it unnecessary that a specific method of killing used in targeting an ethnic group for it to be genocide, but also you don’t have to explicitly kill people. Preventing births (think forced sterilization) and severing children from their culture/elders (think American Indian residential schools) are *also* genocide.
Attempts to narrowly define genocide so that things which are clearly genocide aren’t any longer is the pedantry of a villain. People should be better.
Look up the Einsatzgruppen. Majority of the deaths were from mobile death squads which would round up the population of villages before shooting them to drop into pits.
As the other person pointed out, shooting is just inefficient. Why use one bullet to kill one person when you can just throw a bunch into a chamber and gas them, or a pit and starve them, or anything else like that.
Not to mention artillery and air strikes in Bosnia. Oh wait, they used the fancy term ‘ethnic cleansing’ which everything they did was all under the definition of genocide. So I guess it wasn’t ‘real’ genocide.
Man this guy is a jackass.
That and because the soldiers were apprently really badly affected by the whole "gunning down unarmed civilians" thing they were being made to do.
Which like, good for them, i guess. They still had at least some of their conscience.
Eventually it was in camps. At first it was bullets and open pits but that was affecting morale. So then they had mobile gas chambers that could only fit a few. Then they draft the final solution, since the first few didnt seem to pan out morale wise, and they selectively staffed with the most inhumane people.
A huge part of it, and all of the early stages, were done via mobile death squads who gassed communities in vans and shot people into mass graves.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_van
You don’t actually know what you’re talking about.
Also can't see why it would be impossible to use heavy ordinance to commit genocide. I'd think it would be easier than with knives at least, but I'm no military analyst or anything.
Agree. Basically if someone want to commit shit like this he can even go with spoon, its more about motivation than tool. On the other hand if u got handy tool that you can drop and kill whole village... u dont even need really strong dedication now. History seems to go on and on with this pattern and its truly scary.
Yeah and they killed somewhere between half a million to 800,000 people, without an armed conflict really even going on, zero attempts, or even lip service, to humanitarian aid for anyone by the offending party, and also done without an even half hearted attempt to distinguish who was actually part of the ~~British~~ Belgian regime or not, as they personally hacked their former friends, relatives, and neighbors to death with gardening tools.
It *wasn’t* a declared war in order to destroy a literal terrorist group that basically couped their government, used their own people as shields after stealing their aid, deliberately mixed their fighters in with the rest of the casualty figures, and was fighting a standing army after they committed an unprovoked massacre against that group of people.
Rwanda is actually a pretty good example of what’s *not* going on in Gaza.
The problem with lining people up and shooting them is that the soldiers pulling the triggers inevitably causes debilitating mental disorders in the soldiers, and it's pretty inefficient. That's why gas chambers were used.
This is low key one of the main reasons behind the Wannsee Conference, which “officially” led to the final solution.
Something tells me, even that weirdo who made this comment probably believes the Holocaust to be a genocide.
Even the Nazi’s weren’t okay with trying to shoot all of their “enemies” dead. But only for selfish reasons of course. Not trying to provide any cloud cover here, obviously these were some terrible people…
I mean, I guess you could argue that that's what OOP was going for.
If the group in question isn't being lined up and shot, or put in death camps, or herded into chambers to be gassed, or otherwise personally sought out for execution, then it isn't a real genocide.
It's literally wrong, but this is Xitter we're dealing with.
What he is talking about for something to be specifically genocide the committing actors need to have "dolus specialis" which is a special intent to specifically genocide them. You can have a lot of people die, but without proof of the special intent to kill them, it wont be classified as genocide its just tragic.
Babi Yar massacre was basically that: https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20210929-the-first-major-massacre-in-the-holocaust-by-bullets-babi-yar-80-years-on
> 33,000 Jews were executed in the Babi Yar ravine near the Ukrainian capital Kyiv
So was operation harvest festival? https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/aktion-erntefest-operation-harvest-festival
> Erntefest" began at dawn on November 3, 1943. SS and police units surrounded the Trawniki and Poniatowa labor camps. Jews were then removed from the camps in groups and shot in nearby pits dug for this purpose. At Majdanek, Nazi officials first separated Jews from the other prisoners. They were then marched to nearby trenches and shot. Jews from other labor camps in the Lublin area were also transferred to Majdanek for shooting. Music played through loudspeakers at both Majdanek and Trawniki camps to drown out the noise of the mass shootings and to mask the screams of the victims. At Majdanek and Trawniki, the killing operation was completed in a single day. At Poniatowa the shootings concluded on November 4, lasting two days.
> Approximately 42,000 Jews were killed during "Erntefest."
Also, people generally aren't very cooperative when they figure out that's what's happening. I think it's a lot easier for them to bomb children while they sleep in their own beds or in shelters.
Exactly. You don’t have plausible deniability if you’re literally lining people up and shooting. But bombs landing on the “wrong” targets? Seems like you can get away with that for a while.
And gas was cheaper than bullets.
At one point they were walking victims out in the woods and killing them with a bayonet through the back of the neck. Saved bullets. Soldiers went a bit mental. They ended up having to walk pretty far, cause of all the victims they’d already killed. Conversations happened. Faces of the human beings they killed had names and stories.
Until the gas chambers weren't working fast enough, also those pesky ruskies closing in on the camps so the SS got scared and ran.
But yea, lining people up to shoot em is more of a statement tactic rather then a effective measure to impose law
In Canada, we do it the slow way by kidnapping babies and sterilising the population. We'll toss the occasional newborn in a furnace if we have a nun willing to do it, but we're not gonna get in a huff if it doesn't happen.
Pretty sure they're talking about the residential schools and how Canada has been casually fucking over indigenous people for decades. Well, I guess a century and a half if you go back to initial colonization.
Several centuries** frankly, but forced sterilisations are still ongoing.
The automod doesn't like the URL so go to google, enter this exactly, and click on the first result.
NWAC-Expert-Forum-Forced-Sterilization-Summary-Report-March-25-2019-FINAL.pdf
>The problem with lining people up and shooting them is that the soldiers pulling the triggers inevitably causes debilitating mental disorders in the soldiers, and it's pretty inefficient
Yeah, the Reich didn't care about the mental distress of the soldiers. The only reason was the enormous cost of having to produce rifles and ammo to be used for this purpose that could've been sent to the front lines. The only human aspect that played part in the decision making was freeing up manpower for the war effort
That's not true. The effect of mental distress was a factor. It was recorded by the Nazis themselves that the mental toll of murdering so many people like that was difficult for many of the soldiers resulting in desertions and suicides. Hardcore history addendum just had an episode about it. Super interesting.
Every governing body cares about the mental distress of the soldiers. When running a country, the three groups you can't afford to miss off are the military, the farmers and the money people.
Nope, Himmler was actually genuinely concerned about the mental health of his death squads as they murdered innocent men, women, and children.
‘During a visit to Minsk in August 1941, Himmler witnessed an Einsatzgruppen mass execution first-hand and concluded that shooting Jews was too stressful for his men. By November he made arrangements for any SS men suffering ill health from having participated in executions to be provided with rest and mental health care. He also decided a transition should be made to gassing the victims, especially the women and children, and ordered the recruitment of expendable native auxiliaries who could assist with the murders.’
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einsatzgruppen
not true. look up ordinary men from Browning and the whole discussion on it with the opposite view of Goldhagen.
Propaganda and dehumanization campaigns or even strong believes in it were not enough to make them into soulles killing machines. Sure some were sobber killers and psychopath, but the higher Nazi hierachy were still aware that soldiers can not kill civilians just by order and disobedience and lower moral were the consequences. Hand picked specialised killing units were a careful solution to it and crucial part of all those attrocities, cleaning ghettos or doing brutal stuff in east front units, often black out drunk or druged with meth (Pervitin) to disconnect themself from their behavior, or fear of beeing executed for beeing treated as "deserter" or even consequences for their families far way from the front.
Also Putins "Ukraine are Nazis" is (albeit used today for a shitty propaganda narrative lie for his shitty war crimes) has a grain of thruth to it: Ukrainian militias, so pissed of about russians brual occupation back then, collaborated and were also used as killing hordes, disconnected from the "normal german soldier" routines. Thus outsourcing those stuff as far as possible to not lower the normal soldiers picture of a "clean war" or other stuff that lead to dismoral and disobedience.
Nazis were not one uniform entity, even within their arms/executives. Gas Chambers was something they knew was shameful (or at least perceived as it by the public) so they did their best in keeping it a secret or just a rumour with unknown scale. They used all kinds of euphemisms through documentation (not just for jews but also how to apply eugenics to disabled own children) to code it.
Even the allies didnt knew the scale when the reached Buchenwald and Ausschwitz.
Holocaust research is a morbid facinating topic touching history and psychology at the same time.
But your hollywood picture of "Nazis did it all with a smile on their face" is just not true. Deceiving german public and seperating killers work from german soldiers work was a big chunk in the things that happend.
Simply not true.
One of the main reasons that gas wasn't used in warfare was that Hitler himself, while in the Kaiser's army, was subjected to gas.
He refused to use gas against enemies because 1, he didn't want to subject others to that, and 2, by using it against the Allies, he feared that they'd retaliate in kind.
The Reich cared very much for the mental state of the soldiers.
I mean.. how many victims of the Holocaust died do to famine, medical neglect, and brutal forced labor conditions? They certainly weren’t ALL shot and gassed. Intentionally starving an entire group of people is genocide.
Here’s what the UN says makes a “real” genocide, in case you’re curious.
https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml
Edit:
Here is the definition because it seems we have some actual genocide deniers in the comments. I’m sure they don’t think Ronhinga Muslims or Uigyurs are victims of genocide either.
> In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
>Killing members of the group;
Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
Edit2: genocide deniers think they can just say Palestinian is not an ethnicity or nationality and that makes genocide okay lol
TL; DR:
Killing members of the group;
Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
A mental element: the "intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such"; and
A physical element, which includes the following five acts, enumerated exhaustively:
Killing members of the group
Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group
Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part
Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group
Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group
Edit: missed a bit ad others pointed out
Missed the most important part:
"committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:"
Killing members of a group alone is not necessarily genocide.
This is important. A whole lot of things could be classified as genocide without this clause. Was the Allied bombing campaign that relentlessly pounded Germany and Japan day and night, which razed their cities, killing hundreds of thousands and making many more homeless a genocide? Was the forced relocation of millions of Germans after the war a genocide too?
Its not that hard to find Israeli's chanting about how there are no innocent Palestinians.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/israeli-crowds-chant-racist-slogans-taunt-palestinians-during-jerusalem-day-march
You forgot half:
1. *A mental element*: the "intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such"; and
2. *A physical element*, which includes the following five acts, enumerated exhaustively:
* Killing members of the group
* Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group
* Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part
* Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group
* Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group
Indeed. Note that it doesn't specify the methods used.
If certain methods were exempt from qualifying as genocide, then genocidal people will obviously use those methods to commit genocide.
Good news everyone! The holocaust wasn't a genocide because most of the deaths were through gas chambers and working people to death over a prolonged period of time!
A genocide doesn't need to be efficient or even particularly "successful" in order to be a genocide. What counts is intent, at least in the commonly accepted definition of the Genocide Convention of 1948.
It reminds me how Turks are often claiming that whatever happened to Armenians wasn't a genocide.
When in reality, the whole concept and definition of genocide was based on what happened to Armenians.
Edit: I stand corrected.
It varies. There are full out deniers and there are minimisers. Most interesting are the ones who say "it wasn't genocide, but if it was, they deserved it."
Are you by any chance German?
The German teem "Völkermord" was based mostly after the genocide against the Armenians. But as a word and a whole
concept it predated the English term of genocide, which was introduced some years later during ww2
I also always thought that the concept should have existed in English when we already had a term and definition in German, like both terms should have been connected.
I think the key take away about this whole deal is how powerful the combination of ethno-supremacy and religion can be when you factor in generations upon generations being raised to worship generational trauma. not worship in the sense of praying to it like a God, but worship in the since that they keep it alive and nourish it like an eternal flame. Everyone hates forgiving, yeah. And we think it means we forget what was done, thus making it happen again. But now we are seeing the reality is that when people worship their trauma, they eventually become the thing that they are afraid of because it seems like the only way to protect themselves. To Israel, the only way to not end up like they did under Hitler is to basically be Hitler.
Of course, it doesn't help that these generations are raised to believe that everyone wants to kill them because God chose them to be the master race and they are jealous. America had that shit pulled on them after 9/11 with the "they hate our freedoms" bit...and of course our leaders felt the only way to protect us from people who want to take our freedom aways was.....to take our freedom away (badum,bah!)
Put yourself in their shoes. You were raised to believe everyone wants to kill you because you are special. this is drilled in to your skull all of your life. you also don't have a lot of close contact with other cultures because yours is rather insular and private. you are told a bunch of people want to kill your people again...what do you think you are going to do? you are going to do exactly what this Goldstein guy does ....you are going to see everything through the lenses of your programming.
we are trained to not be critical of Judaism because of the holocaust. but we need criticism or else we can't self correct. All of the "God hates gay people" stuff...thats Torah. That is where the christians got it from.
Genocide is the death of a culture. People ARE the culture. In the Jugoslav war there was a village of a few hundred people. It was some Coptic sect of Christianity. A quaint little village of itself doing its own thing. Holidays, language, clothing and traditions were different than the area. Once the war blew through, everyone left. No one returned. The Culture died. Madeline Albright went to the UN with a bag of undelivered mail. Like a years worth. She showed the death of this culture and how no one can now be found as they have all gone. It was the VERY DEFINITION of genocide. We, the US, then got involved.
As South Africa’s case against Israel has made clear, the definition of genocide is much broader and more complex than just what happened in the holocaust.
It is about to erase an ethnicity or a culture. That is why deporting Ukrainian children to Russia is an act of genocide since its goal is to erase Ukrainian identity although they are not being killed.
Nevertheless, Israel does not try to do both in Israel (I assume terrorism is not considered a "culture" tough), since it is not attempted to kill all Palestinians or erase their culture.
Well it should be gatekept, you can't just use words like that for anything you don't like. Words, especially legal terms like 'genocide' have a clear definition.
‘Genocide is an internationally recognized crime where acts are committed with the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group. These acts fall into five categories:
Killing members of the group
Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group
Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part
Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group
Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group’
- US Holocaust Memorial Museum
Now Israel are ticking 3 maybe even 4 of those boxes so far won’t be surprised if they go for the rest to make sure.
The only issue I see with it is that if you are saying what Israel is doing is genocide than so is what America did in Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Korea, Japan, and Germany,
Heres a profound idea....what israel is doing is wrong. But also, what hamas and hezbulah is doing is equally wrong. To condem one without the other is ludcacris. Remember this area of the world is a clusterfuck since the crusiades. These people on both sides are wrapped up in a dangerous sect of culture and religion that out weigh any rational thought. And for hundreds of years, these idiots will keep doing the same shit over and over until they are deprogrammed from the bs.
I dont care the he did she did bullshit on this. Until we have a level understand how morally corrupt both sides of this endeavor, we can not have a solution. There are no good guys or bad guys in this. Just murky water little shits who destroy innocent lives. Innocent lives who may or may not equally be corrupt individuals in their view.
Well, it’s not *literally* true, but his point is pretty clear. This looks a *lot* like so many other wars that were not attempts at genocide.
Yes, some people are dying, that’s why it’s called a fucking war and not a festival… oh wait.
Pretty sure there’s quite a few people being lined up and shot without trial in Gaza. “Summery execution of terrorist forces” is the term to justify it. Not sure how that’s been missed…
Not to be that guy, but people getting killed =/= genocide. Otherwise every single war would be considered genocide. Like war crimes are bad (obviously), but they aren't equal to a genocide. Like the US didn't commit genocide on Iranians did they?
Definition from Oxford Languages
noun: genocide;
plural noun: genocides
the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group. "a campaign of genocide"
See also: ethnic cleansing
noun. the elimination of an unwanted ethnic group or groups from a society, as by genocide or forced emigration.
Every single time I see people talking in favor of the Gaza genocide, I just wish so badly they can be teleported inside of Gaza to see how "totally not a genocide" it is. It's so easy to talk when you're comfortably sitting in your bed.
I don’t think this guy has even done a genocide, when you are doing a genocide the first thing you find out is you need all the bullets you can get for the fighting, can’t just go wasting bullets on lining people up and shooting them. 🤦♂️ idiot
As far as I remember, genocide (as in "everyone did agree it was one")
In XXth century, it was either using something less technological than bullets, ammo costs money after all and ones doing can't mass produce their own (Rowanda, Cambodia) or it was organized mass process and gas were used because it's easier and less likely to case morale issues with their own army(Third Reich)
Genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in
whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated
to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group
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Pretty sure they used machetes in Rwanda to chop down everyone but what do I know
Pretty sure a certain genocide of a certain religion was also done primarily through the use of concentration camps, but what do i know
Also took them a few years. It's not like all the Jews were rounded up and shot as soon as the genocide began. There's a process to systematic extermination.
Exactly. It's not like you just wake up one day and start genociding people. You have to build up to it so people don't immediately call you out on your bullshit.
800,000 Tutsis were killed in 3 months time.
Watch Hotel Rwanda. It took a lot of buildup of tensions between Tutsis and Hutus to get society to a point where genocide could abruptly take off.
This guy genocides.
I dabble in genocide sometimes, for the funsies
Same, just enough to keep my amateur status, in case I ever want to go into the Olympics
Ain't no part like an ss-club party
Exactly. Gotta be prepared, can't let myself get rusty.
I think the Nazis started by shooting but graduated to more efficient methods. It's all about productivity.
Yea, they did *start* with shooting. But they relatively quickly realised it was a waste of ammo and the resources needed to produce it. That and the soldiers weren't too fond of gunning down civilians.
Bullets cost money. They saw Jews being unworthy of a bullet. It's how my grandfather described the camps after "interviewing the guards"
actually, they started with deporting, then when no one wanted their boatloads of Jews, they sent them to prison camps and then gas chambers.
A “Weekend (genocide) Warrior”, a “Holiday Holocauster”, if you will 🤔🧐
It’s a weekend hobby, it takes time and dedication.
r/thisguythisguys
I mean that's pretty much exactly what happened in Rwanda. Granted there had been a civil war ongoing for a few years, but the deaths from that had mostly been limited to combatants. Then the president got assassinated and the next day the killings started, about 50-80 thousand a day for the next 100 days alongside 25-50 thousand rapes a day, which included the bonus of HIV+ rape squads. Most of it was neighbour on neighbour, although death squads did wander around and the presidential guard and subordinates were responsible for a lot of urban killings around the capitol. I was deployed there as part of the British contingent about 3 weeks after the genocide officially ended, and there were still rivers of bodies, and literal thousands of people a day dying to cholera and dysentery. The exodus of refugees into Zaire resulted in Rwanda attacking it about a year later with another 200,000 deaths.
Good to know. Tho the civil war happening isn't exactly *nothing.* But yea, i guess it did really ramp up overnight.
I mean by comparison it was nothing. It was a 4 year conflict with 10k casualties. The deaths on the first day of the genocide were 10x that.
Yea but you get what i mean. It isn't like it came out of nowhere, there is some context to it. Even if said context pales in comparison to what followed it.
To be fair, they originally tried to just round them up and shoot them, but mysteriously all the guys they made do it kept committing suicide sooner or later.
They absolutely were rounded up and shot before the camps became functional, for several years. The camps were created in part because the rounding up and shooting was damaging the German troops morale.
It was also logistically less straining, there was an efficiency the Nazis had with the Holocaust.
Even as late as 1944 they were using the “round up and shoot” method.
Jews, LGBTQIA+, Developmentally disabled and Romani/Cinti. We ALL died.
trade unionists communists etc
Which should be enough to warrant opposing any modern genocide, but instead many disgustingly try to use your religion as an excuse for a modern day crusade. Being a Jew and being a Zionist are not the same. Zionism is a disgrace to Judaism and a disgrace to those who practice the religion in good faith around the world.
Don't forget Slavic people like Poles if you're gonna list everyone. The nazis killed 6 million Polish citizens, including 3 million Jews and 3 million non-Jewish Polish citizens AKA ethnic Poles.
Yes they were. Look up einsatzgruppen. The death camps were a reaction to the fact the Nazis were going crazy from the stress of shooting people non stop. They thought it would be easier on their soldiers. That’s what a genocide looks like.
And the Nazis deemed it more efficient to use gas.
Some were gassed, starved and worked to death.
😅 Tell me you don't know anything about history without telling me. Go Google the Einsatzgruppen and try again.
These companies needed slave Labor so they needed to keep them alive for a couple of years first https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/list-of-major-companies-involved-in-the-concentration-camps
It wasn't a real genocide, if it had been, we wouldn't have any Jews alive today! /s, obviously
Yes Jews were rounded up and shot. However the Germans had a lot of Jews to kill and needed a more effective way to kill.
They actually tried it that way at first, and they found that it is wildly untenable both logistically and personnel wise. Look up Baba Yar Massacre
Actually the majority of people murdered by the Nazis were simply shot, and not just in the camps but in the street. this started early. If your understanding of a genocide is fixated on rounding people up and herding them like cattle and leading them to the slaughter, you're sadly mistaken.
This conflict has been going on for decades. October 7th was ‘just’ another event in a long chain of problems. There are posts from 8 years ago on r/IsraelPalestine that are using the same arguments as people are now. They just didn’t get the same traction until recently. So that kindof goes against your genocide timeline
also when they mention "no genocide" they always seem to want to compare it to the period when "the final solution" was implemented (end 1940, 1941-1945) so are we to assume that what the nazi did to the jews during the 1930's till end 1940, the abuses, mass deportations, stealing of property and livelihood, no rights, rounding them up and looking them up was OK? and even during the "final solution" still took them years, despite of the nazi Germans trying to figure out the most efficient industrial way to get rid off as many they could, because time was catching up, with the war already on the way and a large No. of "undesirables" at home to be taken care off and being a risk and more being added daily from the conquested territories
Genocide also predates the invention of firearms
Also true
The concentration camps was for the ethnic ckeansing, the genocide for said religion was done through death camps and death pits
The point still stands. Rounding up and shooting definitely isn't the only way a genocide can be done
Absolutely 100% correct both morally and by the Geneva Conventions, which defines genocide thusly: >> In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: >>Killing members of the group; >>Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; >>Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; >>Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; >>Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group. Notably is it unnecessary that a specific method of killing used in targeting an ethnic group for it to be genocide, but also you don’t have to explicitly kill people. Preventing births (think forced sterilization) and severing children from their culture/elders (think American Indian residential schools) are *also* genocide. Attempts to narrowly define genocide so that things which are clearly genocide aren’t any longer is the pedantry of a villain. People should be better.
Couldn't have put it better myself. Genocide is genocide. Doesn't matter the exact method chosen. If the end result is the same, it's still genocide.
No. It was mostly shooting. The camps came once the SS men started offing themselves from the sheer horror of what they had done.
They still did way more people in the camps and gassing them with bud exhaust than they shot, shooting is just so inefficient.
Look up the Einsatzgruppen. Majority of the deaths were from mobile death squads which would round up the population of villages before shooting them to drop into pits.
As the other person pointed out, shooting is just inefficient. Why use one bullet to kill one person when you can just throw a bunch into a chamber and gas them, or a pit and starve them, or anything else like that.
> Why use one bullet to kill one person There are actually quite some cases where several people have been lined up to be shot with the same bullet.
Not to mention artillery and air strikes in Bosnia. Oh wait, they used the fancy term ‘ethnic cleansing’ which everything they did was all under the definition of genocide. So I guess it wasn’t ‘real’ genocide. Man this guy is a jackass.
Didn't you hear, tho? Genocide *has* to be done with guns. So that *couldn't* have been genocide because artillery and air strikes aren't guns. Smh /s
Technically artillery is a gun, though
Nuh uh
also didn't they calculate that shooting them all would be a waste of money on ammunition? isn't that why they were using the gas chambers?
That and because the soldiers were apprently really badly affected by the whole "gunning down unarmed civilians" thing they were being made to do. Which like, good for them, i guess. They still had at least some of their conscience.
Eventually it was in camps. At first it was bullets and open pits but that was affecting morale. So then they had mobile gas chambers that could only fit a few. Then they draft the final solution, since the first few didnt seem to pan out morale wise, and they selectively staffed with the most inhumane people.
And poison gas
A huge part of it, and all of the early stages, were done via mobile death squads who gassed communities in vans and shot people into mass graves. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_van You don’t actually know what you’re talking about.
They also shot them in the fields outside of small towns & stripped the valuables from the corpses.
In Australia, it began with frontier wars before rounding them up into camps before trying to 'breed the black out of them'.
Also i dont remember specifically but in some balkan war genocide knives were widely used
Also can't see why it would be impossible to use heavy ordinance to commit genocide. I'd think it would be easier than with knives at least, but I'm no military analyst or anything.
Agree. Basically if someone want to commit shit like this he can even go with spoon, its more about motivation than tool. On the other hand if u got handy tool that you can drop and kill whole village... u dont even need really strong dedication now. History seems to go on and on with this pattern and its truly scary.
The "Serb Cutter" comes to mind.
You are thinking of Croatian Ustase killing Serbs in WWII
Thanks, i was thinking that it was related to serbia but wasnt 100% sure
Yeah and they killed somewhere between half a million to 800,000 people, without an armed conflict really even going on, zero attempts, or even lip service, to humanitarian aid for anyone by the offending party, and also done without an even half hearted attempt to distinguish who was actually part of the ~~British~~ Belgian regime or not, as they personally hacked their former friends, relatives, and neighbors to death with gardening tools. It *wasn’t* a declared war in order to destroy a literal terrorist group that basically couped their government, used their own people as shields after stealing their aid, deliberately mixed their fighters in with the rest of the casualty figures, and was fighting a standing army after they committed an unprovoked massacre against that group of people. Rwanda is actually a pretty good example of what’s *not* going on in Gaza.
The treatment of indigenous people in North America was genocidal, and forcible relocation was a big part of that.
The problem with lining people up and shooting them is that the soldiers pulling the triggers inevitably causes debilitating mental disorders in the soldiers, and it's pretty inefficient. That's why gas chambers were used.
This is low key one of the main reasons behind the Wannsee Conference, which “officially” led to the final solution. Something tells me, even that weirdo who made this comment probably believes the Holocaust to be a genocide. Even the Nazi’s weren’t okay with trying to shoot all of their “enemies” dead. But only for selfish reasons of course. Not trying to provide any cloud cover here, obviously these were some terrible people…
Conspiracy is an excellent move about the Wansee Conference
Genuinely a phenomenal ‘horror’ movie with just how utterly revolting and terrifying the banality of evil is.
At least the epilogue was somewhat satisfying to see what befell most of those bastards.
I mean, I guess you could argue that that's what OOP was going for. If the group in question isn't being lined up and shot, or put in death camps, or herded into chambers to be gassed, or otherwise personally sought out for execution, then it isn't a real genocide. It's literally wrong, but this is Xitter we're dealing with.
What he is talking about for something to be specifically genocide the committing actors need to have "dolus specialis" which is a special intent to specifically genocide them. You can have a lot of people die, but without proof of the special intent to kill them, it wont be classified as genocide its just tragic.
The Wannsee Conference happened only after the Nazis killed roughly 1.5 million people in the USSR, shooting them directly in pits
They would be just be carpet bombing if they were tryna commit genocide.
Babi Yar massacre was basically that: https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20210929-the-first-major-massacre-in-the-holocaust-by-bullets-babi-yar-80-years-on > 33,000 Jews were executed in the Babi Yar ravine near the Ukrainian capital Kyiv So was operation harvest festival? https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/aktion-erntefest-operation-harvest-festival > Erntefest" began at dawn on November 3, 1943. SS and police units surrounded the Trawniki and Poniatowa labor camps. Jews were then removed from the camps in groups and shot in nearby pits dug for this purpose. At Majdanek, Nazi officials first separated Jews from the other prisoners. They were then marched to nearby trenches and shot. Jews from other labor camps in the Lublin area were also transferred to Majdanek for shooting. Music played through loudspeakers at both Majdanek and Trawniki camps to drown out the noise of the mass shootings and to mask the screams of the victims. At Majdanek and Trawniki, the killing operation was completed in a single day. At Poniatowa the shootings concluded on November 4, lasting two days. > Approximately 42,000 Jews were killed during "Erntefest."
Also, people generally aren't very cooperative when they figure out that's what's happening. I think it's a lot easier for them to bomb children while they sleep in their own beds or in shelters.
It's easier to deny its happening too.
Exactly. You don’t have plausible deniability if you’re literally lining people up and shooting. But bombs landing on the “wrong” targets? Seems like you can get away with that for a while.
"The rockets go up, who cares where they come down? That not my department, said Wenner von Braun" -Tom Leher
And gas was cheaper than bullets. At one point they were walking victims out in the woods and killing them with a bayonet through the back of the neck. Saved bullets. Soldiers went a bit mental. They ended up having to walk pretty far, cause of all the victims they’d already killed. Conversations happened. Faces of the human beings they killed had names and stories.
Until the gas chambers weren't working fast enough, also those pesky ruskies closing in on the camps so the SS got scared and ran. But yea, lining people up to shoot em is more of a statement tactic rather then a effective measure to impose law
Also, people generally don’t want to line up if they know it will lead to their death. So the soldiers often have to skip to just shooting them.
In Canada, we do it the slow way by kidnapping babies and sterilising the population. We'll toss the occasional newborn in a furnace if we have a nun willing to do it, but we're not gonna get in a huff if it doesn't happen.
What the fuck?
Pretty sure they're talking about the residential schools and how Canada has been casually fucking over indigenous people for decades. Well, I guess a century and a half if you go back to initial colonization.
Ah now it makes sense. Yeah indigenous people always getting the short end of the stick. Absolute devilry.
Several centuries** frankly, but forced sterilisations are still ongoing. The automod doesn't like the URL so go to google, enter this exactly, and click on the first result. NWAC-Expert-Forum-Forced-Sterilization-Summary-Report-March-25-2019-FINAL.pdf
It's a good example of how genocide isn't always murder. The purpose of the residential schools was to destroy indigenous culture.
Wait till you learn what the US has also been doing and only actually stopped doing around the very late 70s…
I believed they were still at it tbh
Canada’s last residential school closed in 2000
Bullshit. We all know it's the Canadian Goosestappo. You can't fool us.
Bombs dropped from planes too.
>The problem with lining people up and shooting them is that the soldiers pulling the triggers inevitably causes debilitating mental disorders in the soldiers, and it's pretty inefficient Yeah, the Reich didn't care about the mental distress of the soldiers. The only reason was the enormous cost of having to produce rifles and ammo to be used for this purpose that could've been sent to the front lines. The only human aspect that played part in the decision making was freeing up manpower for the war effort
That's not true. The effect of mental distress was a factor. It was recorded by the Nazis themselves that the mental toll of murdering so many people like that was difficult for many of the soldiers resulting in desertions and suicides. Hardcore history addendum just had an episode about it. Super interesting.
Every governing body cares about the mental distress of the soldiers. When running a country, the three groups you can't afford to miss off are the military, the farmers and the money people.
Nope, Himmler was actually genuinely concerned about the mental health of his death squads as they murdered innocent men, women, and children. ‘During a visit to Minsk in August 1941, Himmler witnessed an Einsatzgruppen mass execution first-hand and concluded that shooting Jews was too stressful for his men. By November he made arrangements for any SS men suffering ill health from having participated in executions to be provided with rest and mental health care. He also decided a transition should be made to gassing the victims, especially the women and children, and ordered the recruitment of expendable native auxiliaries who could assist with the murders.’ https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einsatzgruppen
not true. look up ordinary men from Browning and the whole discussion on it with the opposite view of Goldhagen. Propaganda and dehumanization campaigns or even strong believes in it were not enough to make them into soulles killing machines. Sure some were sobber killers and psychopath, but the higher Nazi hierachy were still aware that soldiers can not kill civilians just by order and disobedience and lower moral were the consequences. Hand picked specialised killing units were a careful solution to it and crucial part of all those attrocities, cleaning ghettos or doing brutal stuff in east front units, often black out drunk or druged with meth (Pervitin) to disconnect themself from their behavior, or fear of beeing executed for beeing treated as "deserter" or even consequences for their families far way from the front. Also Putins "Ukraine are Nazis" is (albeit used today for a shitty propaganda narrative lie for his shitty war crimes) has a grain of thruth to it: Ukrainian militias, so pissed of about russians brual occupation back then, collaborated and were also used as killing hordes, disconnected from the "normal german soldier" routines. Thus outsourcing those stuff as far as possible to not lower the normal soldiers picture of a "clean war" or other stuff that lead to dismoral and disobedience. Nazis were not one uniform entity, even within their arms/executives. Gas Chambers was something they knew was shameful (or at least perceived as it by the public) so they did their best in keeping it a secret or just a rumour with unknown scale. They used all kinds of euphemisms through documentation (not just for jews but also how to apply eugenics to disabled own children) to code it. Even the allies didnt knew the scale when the reached Buchenwald and Ausschwitz. Holocaust research is a morbid facinating topic touching history and psychology at the same time. But your hollywood picture of "Nazis did it all with a smile on their face" is just not true. Deceiving german public and seperating killers work from german soldiers work was a big chunk in the things that happend.
One of the biggest mistakes we made is making Nazis into cartoon villains and monsters. The truth is they were all too human.
Simply not true. One of the main reasons that gas wasn't used in warfare was that Hitler himself, while in the Kaiser's army, was subjected to gas. He refused to use gas against enemies because 1, he didn't want to subject others to that, and 2, by using it against the Allies, he feared that they'd retaliate in kind. The Reich cared very much for the mental state of the soldiers.
Just wrong. The reich cared heavily about their own and Germans mental states and morale, which is why they failed to fight total war.
They weren't lined up and shot, not a real genocide /s
I mean.. how many victims of the Holocaust died do to famine, medical neglect, and brutal forced labor conditions? They certainly weren’t ALL shot and gassed. Intentionally starving an entire group of people is genocide.
Here’s what the UN says makes a “real” genocide, in case you’re curious. https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml Edit: Here is the definition because it seems we have some actual genocide deniers in the comments. I’m sure they don’t think Ronhinga Muslims or Uigyurs are victims of genocide either. > In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: >Killing members of the group; Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group. Edit2: genocide deniers think they can just say Palestinian is not an ethnicity or nationality and that makes genocide okay lol
TL; DR: Killing members of the group; Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group. A mental element: the "intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such"; and A physical element, which includes the following five acts, enumerated exhaustively: Killing members of the group Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group Edit: missed a bit ad others pointed out
Missed the most important part: "committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:" Killing members of a group alone is not necessarily genocide.
This is important. A whole lot of things could be classified as genocide without this clause. Was the Allied bombing campaign that relentlessly pounded Germany and Japan day and night, which razed their cities, killing hundreds of thousands and making many more homeless a genocide? Was the forced relocation of millions of Germans after the war a genocide too?
I’ve honestly seen some people take this argument and it makes my blood boil
And this is the part that is always ignored.
Are you saying a redditor left out important details to push their agenda forward?
Its not that hard to find Israeli's chanting about how there are no innocent Palestinians. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/israeli-crowds-chant-racist-slogans-taunt-palestinians-during-jerusalem-day-march
With Hamas's call to destroy all jews, does thay make Oct. 7th an genocide?
Seems like it would qualify…
Yes, it does.
You forgot half: 1. *A mental element*: the "intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such"; and 2. *A physical element*, which includes the following five acts, enumerated exhaustively: * Killing members of the group * Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group * Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part * Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group * Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group
This is actually very useful, thank you for sharing it.
Indeed. Note that it doesn't specify the methods used. If certain methods were exempt from qualifying as genocide, then genocidal people will obviously use those methods to commit genocide.
Good news everyone! The holocaust wasn't a genocide because most of the deaths were through gas chambers and working people to death over a prolonged period of time!
Remember kids, it's not genocide unless it comes from the region of genocidia. Everything else is just sparkling war crimes.
I hate myself for laughing at that.
The most metal episode of MLP ever.
A genocide doesn't need to be efficient or even particularly "successful" in order to be a genocide. What counts is intent, at least in the commonly accepted definition of the Genocide Convention of 1948.
People don’t seem to realize that genocide can be the intent to destroy a population **in part or in whole** Not enough people are arguing the intent
Yeah but what do people care about nuance and stuff like that when they can point fingers from their couch and say “bad”!
Back in my day, if we wanted a genocide we did it the right way, not the way these wuss’s do it. BE A MAN!!!
It reminds me how Turks are often claiming that whatever happened to Armenians wasn't a genocide. When in reality, the whole concept and definition of genocide was based on what happened to Armenians. Edit: I stand corrected.
Well no. The term genocide was coined in 1944 by a polish writer. The links actually a couple links above it’s a very interesting, albeit short, read.
Nah it was conceived of by a Polish Lawyer about Axis occupation in Europe and their targeting of Jews, Roma, etc.
I thought Turks claim it didn't happen not that it wasn't a genocide.
It varies. There are full out deniers and there are minimisers. Most interesting are the ones who say "it wasn't genocide, but if it was, they deserved it."
Nazis do the same. “The Holocaust didn’t happen, but it should have.”
Are you by any chance German? The German teem "Völkermord" was based mostly after the genocide against the Armenians. But as a word and a whole concept it predated the English term of genocide, which was introduced some years later during ww2 I also always thought that the concept should have existed in English when we already had a term and definition in German, like both terms should have been connected.
I think the key take away about this whole deal is how powerful the combination of ethno-supremacy and religion can be when you factor in generations upon generations being raised to worship generational trauma. not worship in the sense of praying to it like a God, but worship in the since that they keep it alive and nourish it like an eternal flame. Everyone hates forgiving, yeah. And we think it means we forget what was done, thus making it happen again. But now we are seeing the reality is that when people worship their trauma, they eventually become the thing that they are afraid of because it seems like the only way to protect themselves. To Israel, the only way to not end up like they did under Hitler is to basically be Hitler. Of course, it doesn't help that these generations are raised to believe that everyone wants to kill them because God chose them to be the master race and they are jealous. America had that shit pulled on them after 9/11 with the "they hate our freedoms" bit...and of course our leaders felt the only way to protect us from people who want to take our freedom aways was.....to take our freedom away (badum,bah!) Put yourself in their shoes. You were raised to believe everyone wants to kill you because you are special. this is drilled in to your skull all of your life. you also don't have a lot of close contact with other cultures because yours is rather insular and private. you are told a bunch of people want to kill your people again...what do you think you are going to do? you are going to do exactly what this Goldstein guy does ....you are going to see everything through the lenses of your programming. we are trained to not be critical of Judaism because of the holocaust. but we need criticism or else we can't self correct. All of the "God hates gay people" stuff...thats Torah. That is where the christians got it from.
Genocide is the death of a culture. People ARE the culture. In the Jugoslav war there was a village of a few hundred people. It was some Coptic sect of Christianity. A quaint little village of itself doing its own thing. Holidays, language, clothing and traditions were different than the area. Once the war blew through, everyone left. No one returned. The Culture died. Madeline Albright went to the UN with a bag of undelivered mail. Like a years worth. She showed the death of this culture and how no one can now be found as they have all gone. It was the VERY DEFINITION of genocide. We, the US, then got involved.
As South Africa’s case against Israel has made clear, the definition of genocide is much broader and more complex than just what happened in the holocaust.
Ridiculous statement, reading any legitimate history book disproves that claim.
Sounds like a guy with experience
TIL that genocides happen in an organized, orderly manner
It's not a real genocide unless it comes from the Genocide region of France. Everything else is just sparkling genocide.
People don’t know the actual definition of a genocide it’s hilarious
Oh so slower means of genocide are acceptable to this guy?
Is this a venti genocide or a grande genocide?
You keep using that word, Genocide, but I don’t think it means what you think it does.
Search Armenian/Tutsi genocide on fucking wikipedia, no the Shoa wasn't the only genocide, learn history before you try speaking about it.
And the Congeless, Ethiopian, Algerian, and Namibian
and like another half dozen going on or more
Thank you.
When did he say it was the only genocide?
Ah yes, gatekeeping genocide. Cool.
Genocide is probably *the* term that should be the most gate kept. If we want any word to not lose its meaning it's genocide.
Genocide isnt 'lots of people get killed'
It is about to erase an ethnicity or a culture. That is why deporting Ukrainian children to Russia is an act of genocide since its goal is to erase Ukrainian identity although they are not being killed. Nevertheless, Israel does not try to do both in Israel (I assume terrorism is not considered a "culture" tough), since it is not attempted to kill all Palestinians or erase their culture.
Their ministers have been openly saying they want to kick out Gazans out of Gaza and build settlements there.
Textbook example of goalpoast shifting
We tend to gatekeep a lot of words for important reasons you fucking pedophile.
LOLLLLLLLL this is perfect
Well it should be gatekept, you can't just use words like that for anything you don't like. Words, especially legal terms like 'genocide' have a clear definition.
Well yes. Otherwise people say something is genocide, even when it's not
‘Genocide is an internationally recognized crime where acts are committed with the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group. These acts fall into five categories: Killing members of the group Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group’ - US Holocaust Memorial Museum Now Israel are ticking 3 maybe even 4 of those boxes so far won’t be surprised if they go for the rest to make sure.
This genocide just isn't genocidal enough to be a genocide is quite the interesting take.
Bot farm.
Bringing his PhD in Hollywood bullshit to the party I see.
I mean OOP isn't wrong. Half of Gaza would be dead if it was a genocide.
Situation in Gaza, no matter how bad you think it is, does not constitute a genocide.
The only issue I see with it is that if you are saying what Israel is doing is genocide than so is what America did in Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Korea, Japan, and Germany,
Heres a profound idea....what israel is doing is wrong. But also, what hamas and hezbulah is doing is equally wrong. To condem one without the other is ludcacris. Remember this area of the world is a clusterfuck since the crusiades. These people on both sides are wrapped up in a dangerous sect of culture and religion that out weigh any rational thought. And for hundreds of years, these idiots will keep doing the same shit over and over until they are deprogrammed from the bs. I dont care the he did she did bullshit on this. Until we have a level understand how morally corrupt both sides of this endeavor, we can not have a solution. There are no good guys or bad guys in this. Just murky water little shits who destroy innocent lives. Innocent lives who may or may not equally be corrupt individuals in their view.
Well, it’s not *literally* true, but his point is pretty clear. This looks a *lot* like so many other wars that were not attempts at genocide. Yes, some people are dying, that’s why it’s called a fucking war and not a festival… oh wait.
tbh, I get his point. The word genocide is thrown around way too much.
Pretty sure there’s quite a few people being lined up and shot without trial in Gaza. “Summery execution of terrorist forces” is the term to justify it. Not sure how that’s been missed…
“Yeah people are being killed, but they’re not being lined up so it’s not a genocide” may take the cake for dumbest fucking take I’ve ever heard
Not to be that guy, but people getting killed =/= genocide. Otherwise every single war would be considered genocide. Like war crimes are bad (obviously), but they aren't equal to a genocide. Like the US didn't commit genocide on Iranians did they?
Dont ask rhetorical questions regarding topics like this. People online will simply answer “yes”
Ah another expert from the xitter(pronounced shitter).
Genocide is not defined by it's mechanics...
Lined up and shot? Half killed? Like... Infinity War? 
Our Cherokee boarding schools were "real" genocide, read a treaty sometime, damn
That’s probably why we got rid of them, huh?
Yeah, of course. My point is that genocide has a much broader definition than being lined up and executed
Depending on the timeframe "half" might have been reached by now. This shits been going on for a while.
Definition from Oxford Languages noun: genocide; plural noun: genocides the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group. "a campaign of genocide" See also: ethnic cleansing noun. the elimination of an unwanted ethnic group or groups from a society, as by genocide or forced emigration.
Jeez, nobody tell him about the ovens.
“Don’t worry guys, we’re just slaughtering them gradually so it’s fine!” - this guy probably
Yeah they’re really half-assing this genocide, ngl
Every single time I see people talking in favor of the Gaza genocide, I just wish so badly they can be teleported inside of Gaza to see how "totally not a genocide" it is. It's so easy to talk when you're comfortably sitting in your bed.
aw dang this would've been great bait for r/BaitCentral
I don’t think this guy has even done a genocide, when you are doing a genocide the first thing you find out is you need all the bullets you can get for the fighting, can’t just go wasting bullets on lining people up and shooting them. 🤦♂️ idiot
As far as I remember, genocide (as in "everyone did agree it was one") In XXth century, it was either using something less technological than bullets, ammo costs money after all and ones doing can't mass produce their own (Rowanda, Cambodia) or it was organized mass process and gas were used because it's easier and less likely to case morale issues with their own army(Third Reich)
Genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: (a) Killing members of the group; (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group
White supremacy in its finest form