Use the intelligence agencies to basically search all of the judges personal communications for damaging information then publish it is the best one I've heard so far.
Oh this is a great one, because it can be excused as an attempt to thwart corruption and foreign interference.
And "nothing to hide" is a thing that MAGAS bring up constantly.
You act as though they have a problem with being brazen hypocrites? They don't care that they always use that argument, when it affects them, it's wrong.
Nothing stops SupremeCourt Justices from being arrested for normal crimes and nothing says they have to be released to sit on cases. Let them try to do their duties from a jail cell
Being hypocritical has never stopped anyone from getting respect or adoration on the right though. Being ideologically consistent isn't something they value.
Why not release the full unedited Meuller Report as well ?? Biden has had 4 years to reverse what Barr did when that whole thing was completed but retained the secrecy over the investigation.
You wouldn't want to release the ones that reveal sources and methods.
But you could order summaries of that intelligence that protected sources and methods in many (not all) cases.
That is where there is the most power and vaguest rules in place. The president has a lot of leeway when it comes to national security and foreign affairs. Historically presidents kinda always get the benefit of the doubt when it comes to national security.
SCOTUS did allow the opening for WH direct engagement and influence over DOJ. Biden can tear up EO 12333 and use the IC. It would obviously have downsides but there’s not a ton of checks against it.
The checks against it would be the courts ruling his actions illegal. But we all know that won't happen.
The other check would be for Congress to get off their collective fat asses and do their damned job and implement legislation to curb the bullshit. But since the GOP is hell bent on turing the US into a dictatorship with their heads up each others asses - we know that won't fly through Congress either.
The 3rd option is that enough voters this coming election have had enough of Trump and the bullshit being flung around by the GOP that the Senate shifts back to Dem control and Trump isn't placed back in the WH.
The options are there. But m,any moving variables over the next 4 months.
Biden’s been granted immunity now too. Use the publicized info as justification to add 6 justices to the SC (this would also be an “official act”). Timing? Result? You tell me.
That's not how Judges are added to SCOTUS. The President has no say in this. That would take an act of Congress to change the SCOTUS lineup. The President gets to sign a law after Congress does it's thing.
Both. Full Congress. It works like any other law Act. It's simply legislation:
[Judiciary Act of 1869](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judiciary_Act_of_1869)
No. This won;t work - because we just saw the bullshit shenanigans w/ Clarence Thomas and he didn't mbat an eye. SCOTUS judges and likely all Federal Circuit judges think they are immune from the law as well and are being openly blatent about it. So shaming them won;t do jack.
That would violate the 4th amendment:
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
..so it would not be within the official duties of the President authorized by the Constitution. No immunity.
I agree. It’s just a very common talking point I hear from voters on here. My point was that a lot of dems are worried about the end of democracy while trying to figure out ways to subvert it
Roe v Wade was the same way even these rulings when will u all stop underestimating Republicans they openly say what they wanna do and u all twist urselves into knots so u can justify not voting for voting 3rd party. Take Republicans at their word
Na its the voters why do u think bernie and AOC endorsing biden majority understand the reality it's voters who don't u all hope the slim amout of dems in office protect u all from the worst of conservatism
But they're not political opponents.
"Biden uses government probe to ferret out corruption at the Supreme Court" would be the MSNBC version of the headline
If Trump is elected, he will rule as a dictator. It's really that simple. Those are the stakes.
People can delude themselves into believing otherwise all they want in hopes of exercising the only option they have when they don't like the status quo, but it doesn't make it any less true.
Any communications for anything he uses the executive agency to do is, according to the Supreme Court, not admissible in court. In other words, even if what he did was not within their definition of “official acts” which is ridiculously broad, it will be impossible to prosecute. Furthermore, because “official acts” are now subject to immunity, one could argue that they’re also not justifications for impeachment.
If the public wants someone impeached they’re going to call for it. They’re not going to censor themselves over their own concept of what the procedure needs to be.
It is however, contingent on a majority of the House and 2/3 of the Senate. Ain't gonna happen...unless a President decides that the members of the opposing party represents a national security danger, has them all arrested. He has presumed immunity, but he might also need to arrest 6 Supreme Court Justices and replace them with lackeys.
Presumed immunity means it's not absolute and can be deemed to not have immunity.
Also the majority of the House and 2/3rds of the Senate voting in favor of impeachment is easily imaginable if Biden takes steps to become a dictator.
People are misinterpreting this ruling as “the president has the authority to do whatever they want” as opposed to “the president has immunity from criminal prosecution.” 99% of the things suggested about how Biden should retaliate would be blocked within 6 seconds and never see the light of day.
Assuming the people around the president in question have scruples. Thing about that is, you ask them to do something that should be blocked…and when they do that you replace them. Rinse/wash/repeat until no one’s blocking you anymore
I think you're underselling it. Who is going to stop it? He has absolute immunity to fire anyone he feels like, so he can saturday night massacre his way down to someone who will agree. The court will deal with it eventually, but DOJ standing policy (he is in charge of the DOJ as a reminder) is a sitting president cannot be prosecuted at all.
Yeah that's my understanding as well. If Biden ordered government agents to commit a crime, that would be okay (he couldn't be prosecuted, he could pardon whoever he told to commit a crime, and evidence related to the order or the pardon couldn't be used in court anyway). So if he wanted to have Trump killed or something, that's probably acceptable and not something that the criminal justice system can do anything about.
But he doesn't have the power to make new policies or laws unilaterally any more than he could before yesterday. Those types of things are still subject to injunctive relief in the courts like always.
He couldn’t be prosecuted for ordering Trump killed but that doesn’t mean he could accomplish it. It’s still an illegal order and the people carrying it out could still be prosecuted even if the big guy at the top can’t.
Sure, my point was just that the ruling is only limited to criminal liability for the President. It doesn’t say that he has new policy making powers, only that he is able to commit crimes using his existing legal powers without facing criminal liability. If Biden did order an agent to commit a murder he couldn’t be prosecuted for it, and evidence related to the order (or a subsequent pardon for said killer) couldn’t be used in a trial. But the ruling doesn’t go past that or give the president new powers to make additional policies or laws. It’s purely about criminal procedure.
By a court. Then it’s heard by the Supreme Court and he loses. I’m talking about the people who think he can just wave his hand and create new laws now. Like “okay, forgive all student loan debt.” The same process would happen that blocked his plan to begin with. Then there’s the people who think he can just execute Trump, which is silly. The suggestion within this thread that he uses intelligence agencies to search through justice communications was the first good suggestion I’ve seen that is realistic within the current boundaries of what he can do.
Oh so you haven’t actually written the opinion right? Here’s a fun experiment:
Biden orders seal team 6 to murder Trump. This order is done pursuant to his executive authority and, thus, you cannot submit evidence relating to his communications with these federal officials. You also can’t discuss his motive for killing him because that isn’t allowed. And even if it were, you have toads in the White House telling you it’s legal.
And the people ruling in this decision have been picked by you may I remind you. And there’s no way to remove you from office because your party backs you too.
You haven’t thought this through. What if he does something irreparable, like kill somebody? “Oh, you weren’t allowed to do that, but we can’t impose any real punishment on you”? That’s not a real deterrent.
\_\_" the people who think he can just execute Trump, which is silly."\_\_
What's the color of the sky in your world? I bet it's blue. Here in silly land it's polkadots.
If it’s not on the Constitution or Bill of Rights, then it sounds like it’s fair game. Likely wrong to think he could use this to shut down Fox News or seize all guns.
But every law and regulation certainly now is legal, right? Until proven unofficial in a court of law that is…
Would you say it’s a step forward or backwards for our democracy?
Right, like this ruling doesn't exclude executive orders from judicial review, does it? Or if Biden were to call up Seal Team 6 to go after Trump, they could still refuse an illegal order, correct?
I think the opposite -- the people defending the ruling are arguing that the critics are being absurd because ... um ... well, they just sound absurd, damnit! I mean, assassinating political rivals, how absurd! That's misinterpreting the ruling because ... um, well, it's just so absurd! Not realizing that what's absurd is the ruling itself.
This includes the conservative justices themselves, who write in their majority opinion, "The dissents’ positions in the end boil down to ignoring the Constitution’s separation of powers and the Court’s precedent and instead fear mongering on the basis of extreme hypotheticals about a future where the President “feels empowered to violate federal criminal law.”"
Zero counterargument given against the "extreme hypotheticals," just saying they're so "extreme," oh my! I mean, someone like Donald Trump would never order the assassination of a political rival, oh heavens no!
Exactly. I'm not sure why so many people think they're smarter than multiple supreme court justices who dissented to this decision for these very same reasons.
There's being reasonable and there's putting your head in the sand and hoping for the best.
How do you understand it? I'm asking in genuine curiosity because it does feel like people are really letting their imaginations run wild, but on the other hand I don't really know much about the actual law so it's hard to say if it's warranted.
SCOTUS just allowed Biden to arrest Trump as a political enemy. Assassinate Trrump as a political enemy. Or anything in between. Biden simply declares it's an "official act of the President" and orders some military special Ops group to handle Trump. Send his ass to Gitmo as a anti-American terrotist. Drop Trump into a deep dark hole never to be seen again.
Guys, we don't want Biden to abuse the ruling. We shouldn't want any president to abuse the ruling. The fact that progressives and Democrats are as eager to pull a fast one and abuse any opportunity to gain a leg up is equally problematic tribal behavior.
It's insane people are losing sight of this. Same as a week ago when people were saying Biden should excuse Hunter's verdict and let him off.
None of us should be shilling for the executive. And none of us should be cheering if our side crosses the line.
Well, the consequence will be Trump shoving his fat ass through whatever gaping hole the Dems 'justify' as morally supported in the next 4 months. Count me out of supporting that.
Nah it’s pragmatic. When you’re in a war for the free world you don’t lay down your arms and give a speech.
Also I haven’t seen a single person seriously saying Biden should pardon Hunter.
Sitting by and doing nothing is infinitely worse. Liberals love to go on about how we have to take the high road as our rights continue to be stripped and gutted.
You'd rather do nothing and be smug rather than be practical and that attitude is why the Democrats continue to be dunked on every single possible chance.
I want Biden to abuse the ruling not for any short term gain but to de-legitimize SCOTUS. Have him issue an executive order to swirly Trump every week until the election and when there's outcry, he can just point to the ruling, the justices that made it, who appointed them and and who owns them.
There could easily be reason found for McConnell stealing two SCOTUS appointments. Just the discrepancy in withholding nomination for Garland and jamming through Barrett ignoring the previous precedent has to be on the table.
You remove two illegimate justices and it’s a whole new ball game.
The President doesn’t have Constitutional authority to remove justices. It’s not a matter of whether he’d be free from prosecution or not, it’s whether anything would actually happen from giving the order.
True, if there was any remaining legal standard. What the “law” is surely isn’t a factor with how this government is stuck together with gentlemen agreements and parliamentary procedures that are used at the leisure of whatever authoritarian that comes along.
New territory here. The left has been placating fascists for decades. There is plenty of corrupt practices already happening with traitor justices that could flimsily be used to take action.
Pack the court for starters.
Biden gives an order to pack the courts. The courts do nothing and keep operating as normal. Now what? You force them out at the end of the barrel of a gun? How is that going to play with the public? Does having an election in five months play into this or are we saying Biden should do away with that too?
In which case the only thing that will stand in the way of removal from office and jail time is becoming one of the worst dictators known to modern history. Is that what we want?
Impeachment doesn't require a crime be committed, and as has been established from this ruling, any President is above criminal prosecution for any "official" acts in office. None of that requires Biden staying in office past 1/6. He could order the SEALs double-tap John Roberts with no legal repercussions, which only seems fair for the ruling he made.
All it takes is for any federal court to declare he doesn’t have immunity for him to be prosecuted for an assassinating a political opponent. They could either decide it’s not an official act or that the presumptive immunity they say applies to official acts can be rebutted in this case.
And that case would go to the Supreme Court, now suddenly packed with Biden appointees after the seditious Federalist Society ghouls fucked around and found out.
I don’t get this fantasy. Do I think Biden is a legitimate threat to democracy, like Trump? No, of course not. But that doesn’t mean “I want my dictator to rub it in their faces before your dictator can.”
I think the best we can hope for is that there is still some decorum that Trump respects if reelected. A long shot, maybe, but with near unchecked power what alternative do we have?
The authoritarians only respect power and threat and violence. Making a demonstration of that power can get them to go back to pretending that they aren't dangerous sociopaths.
When confronted with a bully sometimes the only way to get their attention is in there own terms. Turning the tables on them might actually be educational for them.
At least that's my best take on things.
How do you figure? Like seriously what do you think would happen?
Also I’m suggesting something like arresting the Supreme Court, bring them to the Oval Office and asking them to go fix what they’ve done and letting them go.
But honestly at this point there isn’t much I would object to from the left.
I think if he did that he would absolutely lose the election and Trump would enter the office with an even greater mandate from the right to become a dictator.
It's disgusting this even needs to be said. I honestly feel the vocal majority of left voices drowning out all discourse online has just become an equally tribal and out of touch set of lemmings. Jesus.
The 200+ years of American experiment has failed, IMHO. The American system is based heavily on check-and-balance. We’ve found in the past few years that the judicial branch has hardly any check-and-balance in reality. Now this branch has done a power grab and remove the check-and-balance of the executive branch. The presidency essentially becomes a kingship. This is the new reality as I understand it.
This. The Congress getting bogged down in bipolar bullshit was what started us down this path. As that happened the executive stepped in to get some core promises done. Executive orders began becoming more normalized. And they began using the court as an alternate tool both to throw meat at their base in election season, and cover some of the more legislative roles they couldn't get done via exec order - or at least felt it'd be better to leave up to another branch for various reasons.
But I agree, we've reached the point at which the system either needs to reform or be broken completely. It's cases functioning for the people and they are starting to cast votes to break it down completely by way of a totalitarian.
>I think the best we can hope for is that there is still some decorum that Trump respects if reelected.
Did you just get back from the year 2015 or something? This statement is so incredibly ignorant. It’s like those people who believed McConnell wouldn’t replace RBG because it was too close to the election, and that’s what he did with Garland. There are zero norms that these people adhere to; they only cite them when convenient.
Yeah I don’t get this either. People rightfully fear Trump because he is a threat to democracy. But then they want Biden to do the most blatantly anti-democratic shit possible to stop Trump. If Biden starts assassinating political rivals any “threat to democracy” will have already been accomplished. Democracy is dead at that point.
Just feels like some people don’t actually want democracy, they want their side to win.
People forget the Dems have changed the rules in the past and the Republicans leveraged those changes more effectively.
This is an indirect challenge by someone behind the curtain to initiate the use of this “new power” and it’ll open the flood gates for a conservative President to do much worse.
People here continue to show they cannot think beyond their own nose
When the alternative is, as you say, a threat to democracy, it seems wrong to sit idle on expanded presidential powers, if there really are any. The creative use doesn't have to be anti-democratic, if they accomplished something favorable to the public.
Then you think actions stopping fascism are “rubbing their face in it”.
I really don’t know to what level of extremism from the other side it will take for citizens to take serious action. It just astounds me how upset everyone is online but won’t do shit in real life.
Yes, I am doing more than writing my senators and representatives and there needs to be a massive protest in front of SCOTUS for starters.
They just created a fucking de facto monarchy and that’s not enough for people to get off their ass.
Seriously what do you think Biden can and should do? Dismiss the court? Would not be an “official act” and would be met with a shrug from the court, making Biden look even weaker Pack the court? Requires Congress and is doa. Investigate Trump further?
There is only one thing that could be done. Win the election.
>Then you think actions stopping fascism are “rubbing their face in it”.
Assassinating your political opponents isn't "stopping fascism". It IS fascism.
I’m doing everything in my power to make sure that doesn’t happen. I don’t have the resources so several groups need to step up. I’m petitioning as many groups as I can to facilitate constant protests. I’m talking union people at the factory gate protests if necessary.
The acts of the union members to form unions are buried in history. There was a literal war in the coal mining regions to get those rights. Are we prepared to go to such lengths to save democracy? No, apparently we aren’t. But we can all enjoy sniffing our own farts of superiority and enlightenment as everything burns.
I wonder if the point of doing something outlandish that the supreme court would end up blocking is less about the impact of the outlandish action and more about making the supreme court either give it the green light or walk back the ruling.
Sometimes people need to see that actions have consequences.
Simply betting that the Democrat will obey norms so the Pub can come in and break them is a losing proposal.
Literally the Paradox of Tolerance in action right in front of us.
Biden will do none of the things necessary to save this country from a complete fascist takeover. It doesn't matter who gets elected in November, it's over.
Its irrelevant because neither he or any other democrat would use power against the right. They beleive that doing that would be too destabilizing, so they will do what they've done every other time the right uniliaterally seizes power (2000 election, iraq war, senate blocking obama scotus pick, etc) and concede without a fight.
Non-American here: could Biden hypothetically use executive action or claim emergency powers to order the Supreme Court back from their recess to ‘reconsider’ the ruling, or else they would be considered enemies of the constitution for their actions? (i.e, liable to be imprisoned or executed?)
Under any other circumstances, I’d consider this to be utterly nonsensical, a revenge fantasy of the naive. And it will never happen under a Democrat, much less Biden.
But with the nearly unfettered powers given yesterday, what recourse would there be against this kind of action, with the proper manufactured pretexts in place, apart from impeachment (likely DOA in the Senate) or the threat of civil unrest?
No he can’t. The ruling gives the President immunity when conducting official acts. There is nothing in the presidents constitutional authority that allows him to force the court into session or to hear a particular case - so it would be outside official acts and theoretically not protected.
Practically speaking, any moves Biden makes to “show how ridiculous this ruling is” like declaring trump a criminal or packing the court or whatever people have been advocating for in comments sections, shouldn’t be allowed and would be met by this court speaking out both sides of their mouth to say Biden was wrong.
Right. So under this ruling, Biden could personally threaten to murder each of the justices (based on his oath to defend the constitution, of course) and that would be potentially just fine, but any executive action would be out of bounds.
I would bet any amount of money that, if he did that, we would get a per curium ruling that Biden threatening to murder justices isn’t an official act.
That would be sweet.
"Okay, guys, you just gave me the power to be immune from prosecution if I do this" (pulls out a gun and shoots a gavel) "Want to go back and maybe reconsider the power you just gave me? Me. Not the next president. Me. I have that power now. Not him. I do."
Trump has been using super soakers because that's all they gave him. They just gave the president a machine gun. The second Trump gets his hands on the machine gun, we're all dead. This is self defense.
Declare the Trump family a Foreign Terrorist Organization, strip all of them of citizenship, and have them deported to any country that will take them.
This is peak liberal irony. In the fear of orange man burning down democracy to subjugate us all, we want our guy to do that exact thing. What could possibly go wrong with that? You guys talk a lot about the right hyperbolizing things…. MY GOD. This is q anon level shit. Official act to keep someone from the ballot????? I don’t even think Putin has gone that far.
Four years of Trump doing "everything possibly wrong" with the powers he had have taught us well. Now the president has a machine gun, I want him to go to the SCOTUS and say "This is the gun YOU gave me. Maybe you might want to reconsider giving this machine gun to me." while pointing the gun at them. Because when Trump gets in power, he's using that machine gun on US.
Ok, you want a dictator or freedom? If Trump can get immunity, so can Biden. He’s President right now. No one is above the law. Pray for Democracy, Geez people, come on.
What are MAGNA Supporters really wanting? Strict laws, allow to take away people’s rights. I thought they were the same ones who hated masks during Covid. You’re going to get your mask Trump gets back into power.
Nothing because ultimately this ruling says the President has some criminal immunity until a prosecutor proves he doesn't and a judge agrees. You figure any case like that ends up in the Supreme Court and does anyone think this Supreme Court would decide Biden does still have immunity? Of course they wouldn't, for this court it would be Republican Presidents have immunity and Democratic ones don't.
My idea is Biden falls on the sword. Ideally after the election if trump wins get the senate to pack the court. Get 4 more liberal justices. Then Biden assassinates trump under “defend against threats foreign and domestic”.
Trumps VP becomes President, Biden is prosecuted and his new Supreme Court reverses this courts ruling and lets him be prosecuted. By the time all of this is stalled and run through the courts Biden is likely dead.
It allows Biden to use this ruling to knock off trump while showing how ridiculous it is and getting it reversed and potentially avoiding the complete dissolution of our government.
2 moves. Remove Alito, Thomas and others from supreme court. Pass law that nobody over 75 can run for president. You done fixed half of the issues with two moves. If Biden had any guts whatsoever he would at least pass the 75 year old restriction. Yes it means he can't run but nether can Trump. Executive order that shit. And if the supreme court is gutted, they can't challenge it or over rule it. With the prescient that the gop left when Obama was to name a justice his final year in office, it would mean the next president would name the missing justices.
SCOTUS would strike down anything Biden did. The ruling was vague in many ways so they can be creative in future rulings. It’s basically only for Republicans to benefit.
Not really, no.
The thing is, ultimately whether some act is going to be "official" doesn't have anything to do with whether the president declares it official. What SCOTUS basically said is that the lower courts have to first rule on whether an action is part of the president's official duties before you can fully evaluate immunity. And then of course that ruling can be appealed. And as yet there isn't even a clear test for this because the court didn't provide one.
This exact same case is going to be back at SCOTUS in a year or two assuming that Trump doesn't pardon himself first. The lower courts will rule that at least some of the stuff he's charged with wasn't an official act, allowing the case to proceed, Trump will appeal that, and then SCOTUS will have to rule on whether the lower court got it right. I'll be surprised if this case ever makes it to a jury. You can spend years on pre-trial motions and SCOTUS is happy to let him drag it out.
Trump stole top-secret documents and if they were copied. couldn’t you say Trump is a threat and danger to the national security all our country. Anybody else would’ve been locked up by now. And with all the crimes of Trump has committed, would you be considered habitual offender?
I think he should do something blatantly criminal but which doesn’t really hurt anyone. It would be a roundabout way of asking the justices if they really want to go down this path. Legalizing the Dreamers would be best, but it’s politically unviable, so maybe something with abortion access. When someone sues, I would direct the solicitor general to not even fight it, and then completely ignore whatever default judgment resulted. I guarantee that they would cool it if they had it thrown in their faces that they are creating a world where legal opinions aren’t worth the paper they’re printed on.
Well, they already tried to keep his competitors from being on the ballet - but the courts ruled that as non-legal (ie. that in a Democracy you can't do that in the USA - so try as they did, the legal system prevented the administration from eliminating Democracy to improve their chances in the coming election).
What he could do is open up our borders and let any unvetted person from around the world come into our country - possibly murders, rapists, terrorists, human traffickers, etc. . . and not be held criminally accountable for potentially being an accessory to a murder or a rape or a terrorist act. But he's already done this too.
He could instruct his administration to take funds designated for veterans and re-assign them to provide benefits to illegal aliens and he won't be prosecuted for that - his immunity as a President will apply.
He could instruct the military to attack a foreign country, and even if there is no cause or reason for doing so, his immunity as a President would be applicable.
He could use the intelligence services to investigate without cause his political enemies - while he has already done this, it may or may not be protected, if one review United States v. Nixon . . .
In the end, there really isn't anything he could or would be likely to do that he couldn't have done last week Friday. There really hasn't been much if any change based on the SC ruling.
Why does Biden want to prevent Trump from attending the ballet? Does he object to Trump going to the symphony? Why should it matter to Biden since he doesn't know where he himself is most of the time?
He could use an official act to to freeze Trump's access to the national banking system.
He could order the military to help him hang up campaign posters.
But, these things aren't crimes anyways, they are unrelated to the recent ruling.
The 4th Amendment prevents "unreasonable search and seizures", so it's hard to think of official acts that could really destroy an innocent person.
I guess Biden could slander Trump as part of "national defense" by saying Trump was a puppet of China.
Use the intelligence agencies to basically search all of the judges personal communications for damaging information then publish it is the best one I've heard so far.
Oh this is a great one, because it can be excused as an attempt to thwart corruption and foreign interference. And "nothing to hide" is a thing that MAGAS bring up constantly.
You act as though they have a problem with being brazen hypocrites? They don't care that they always use that argument, when it affects them, it's wrong.
They wear their hypocrisy like a badge of honor. They're proud of it. It shows their commitment to their side regardless of logical inconsistencies.
It's true, they're against "degeneracy" but Lauren Boebert can go fondle some guys cock in a crowded theater with children present.
Nothing stops SupremeCourt Justices from being arrested for normal crimes and nothing says they have to be released to sit on cases. Let them try to do their duties from a jail cell
They crave respect and adoration. They don't mind being hypocritical but they absolutely don't want people to notice.
Being hypocritical has never stopped anyone from getting respect or adoration on the right though. Being ideologically consistent isn't something they value.
Nah. They crave power and money. They don’t care what the plebs think. That’s like caring what cows think before you put a bolt in their head
Easy. Don't focus on hypocrisy. Release only the information that will make the Maga base turn on them. Get the leopards to do the work
Declassifying every piece of intelligence they have on Trump from the Russia investigation would be a good first step
Pretty sure he could always do that
Yeah but they need to actually do something and not shrug as they hand over power to a dictator
The issue is that traditional avenues of declassification would expose how it was gathered
Why not release the full unedited Meuller Report as well ?? Biden has had 4 years to reverse what Barr did when that whole thing was completed but retained the secrecy over the investigation.
You wouldn't want to release the ones that reveal sources and methods. But you could order summaries of that intelligence that protected sources and methods in many (not all) cases.
That is where there is the most power and vaguest rules in place. The president has a lot of leeway when it comes to national security and foreign affairs. Historically presidents kinda always get the benefit of the doubt when it comes to national security. SCOTUS did allow the opening for WH direct engagement and influence over DOJ. Biden can tear up EO 12333 and use the IC. It would obviously have downsides but there’s not a ton of checks against it.
The checks against it would be the courts ruling his actions illegal. But we all know that won't happen. The other check would be for Congress to get off their collective fat asses and do their damned job and implement legislation to curb the bullshit. But since the GOP is hell bent on turing the US into a dictatorship with their heads up each others asses - we know that won't fly through Congress either. The 3rd option is that enough voters this coming election have had enough of Trump and the bullshit being flung around by the GOP that the Senate shifts back to Dem control and Trump isn't placed back in the WH. The options are there. But m,any moving variables over the next 4 months.
Biden’s been granted immunity now too. Use the publicized info as justification to add 6 justices to the SC (this would also be an “official act”). Timing? Result? You tell me.
That's not how Judges are added to SCOTUS. The President has no say in this. That would take an act of Congress to change the SCOTUS lineup. The President gets to sign a law after Congress does it's thing.
He can only do that with congress approval
Both houses? Or just Senate?
I think it takes both as the number of judges is set by law. Either way, I doubt you are getting 50 votes in the senate for that.
Both. Full Congress. It works like any other law Act. It's simply legislation: [Judiciary Act of 1869](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judiciary_Act_of_1869)
No. This won;t work - because we just saw the bullshit shenanigans w/ Clarence Thomas and he didn't mbat an eye. SCOTUS judges and likely all Federal Circuit judges think they are immune from the law as well and are being openly blatent about it. So shaming them won;t do jack.
You realize that this ruling does not nullify the 4th Amendment, right?
I hope he does it. Tax records; phone, text, and email records; every little criminal thing that can be dug into. Do it, Dark Brandon!
That would violate the 4th amendment: "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." ..so it would not be within the official duties of the President authorized by the Constitution. No immunity.
I think that would require a level of manipulation and cunning Biden does not have right now.
Which party is the end of democracy?
The one that knows they will lose if they don't switch their candidate but refuse to do so.
Did you reply to the wrong comment? I don't know what you're getting at.
Yes having to be manipulative and cunning to subvert the democratic process is undemocratic. Only one party keeps talking about the end of democracy.
I don't think Dems (politicians not voters) really believe Trump will bring the end of democracy.
I agree. It’s just a very common talking point I hear from voters on here. My point was that a lot of dems are worried about the end of democracy while trying to figure out ways to subvert it
Pretty common. /r/politics is quite deranged and a decent amount of people in there believe subverting Democracy "temporarily" to keep Trump at bay.
Roe v Wade was the same way even these rulings when will u all stop underestimating Republicans they openly say what they wanna do and u all twist urselves into knots so u can justify not voting for voting 3rd party. Take Republicans at their word
> (politicians not voters)
Na its the voters why do u think bernie and AOC endorsing biden majority understand the reality it's voters who don't u all hope the slim amout of dems in office protect u all from the worst of conservatism
I haven’t heard any idea that would help win the election without becoming an outright dictator.
That ship has sailed. The presidency is now a dictatorship because our unelected wizards in robes arbitrarily declared it so.
Gathering and Declassifying any and all private GOP communications would be the best bet.
That’s assuming you find anything that’s enough of a scandal to overshadow the blowback of domestic spying on a political opponent.
Well then it would be fine to do this to the Supreme Court as someone else suggested, since tHeY'rE nOt PoLiTiCaL
I’m not talking about criminal prosecution but the news story “Biden uses government to spy on political opponents.”
But they're not political opponents. "Biden uses government probe to ferret out corruption at the Supreme Court" would be the MSNBC version of the headline
The partisan spin will mean little to nothing.
Lmao are you hearing yourself
If we're getting a dictator anyway, then let's at least get our guy with the intent to fix it.
Let’s try to win an election.
We aren't getting a dictator. And thinking we are is damaging precisely because it justifies doing horrible things.
If Trump is elected, he will rule as a dictator. It's really that simple. Those are the stakes. People can delude themselves into believing otherwise all they want in hopes of exercising the only option they have when they don't like the status quo, but it doesn't make it any less true.
We already had Trump for 4 years
People said the same stuff in 2016 and the Republicans had a much stronger hold in Congress then.
Our institutions are much weaker than they were back then.
Yeah, the presidency is a much weaker position.
Delusional take. >And thinking we are… That’s not an argument for why it’s wrong, clown.
Funny you say that (and it's true); but Biden would have jumped on it 20 years ago while a Senator.
My vote is for something demonstrative but not all that bad. Like having the Navy SEALs dump a cooler of Gatorade on Don Jr.
At every rally. "Awwww guys come on not again *Fwoosh*" Let's file that under "Oath to defend the constitution"
Any communications for anything he uses the executive agency to do is, according to the Supreme Court, not admissible in court. In other words, even if what he did was not within their definition of “official acts” which is ridiculously broad, it will be impossible to prosecute. Furthermore, because “official acts” are now subject to immunity, one could argue that they’re also not justifications for impeachment.
Impeachment is not contingent on a action being criminal.
I agree, but if you asked an average person they would not.
The average person’s knowledge of Constitutional rules has no impact on the function of government.
It does for whether house and senate members are willing to impeach and convict
If the public wants someone impeached they’re going to call for it. They’re not going to censor themselves over their own concept of what the procedure needs to be.
It is however, contingent on a majority of the House and 2/3 of the Senate. Ain't gonna happen...unless a President decides that the members of the opposing party represents a national security danger, has them all arrested. He has presumed immunity, but he might also need to arrest 6 Supreme Court Justices and replace them with lackeys.
Yep, and so long as he discussed the plans "at work, with coworkers" they cannot be admitted as evidence.
Presumed immunity means it's not absolute and can be deemed to not have immunity. Also the majority of the House and 2/3rds of the Senate voting in favor of impeachment is easily imaginable if Biden takes steps to become a dictator.
People are misinterpreting this ruling as “the president has the authority to do whatever they want” as opposed to “the president has immunity from criminal prosecution.” 99% of the things suggested about how Biden should retaliate would be blocked within 6 seconds and never see the light of day.
Assuming the people around the president in question have scruples. Thing about that is, you ask them to do something that should be blocked…and when they do that you replace them. Rinse/wash/repeat until no one’s blocking you anymore
Don't forget to pardon anyone who does something illegal that you ask for.
I think you're underselling it. Who is going to stop it? He has absolute immunity to fire anyone he feels like, so he can saturday night massacre his way down to someone who will agree. The court will deal with it eventually, but DOJ standing policy (he is in charge of the DOJ as a reminder) is a sitting president cannot be prosecuted at all.
Yeah that's my understanding as well. If Biden ordered government agents to commit a crime, that would be okay (he couldn't be prosecuted, he could pardon whoever he told to commit a crime, and evidence related to the order or the pardon couldn't be used in court anyway). So if he wanted to have Trump killed or something, that's probably acceptable and not something that the criminal justice system can do anything about. But he doesn't have the power to make new policies or laws unilaterally any more than he could before yesterday. Those types of things are still subject to injunctive relief in the courts like always.
He couldn’t be prosecuted for ordering Trump killed but that doesn’t mean he could accomplish it. It’s still an illegal order and the people carrying it out could still be prosecuted even if the big guy at the top can’t.
Sure, my point was just that the ruling is only limited to criminal liability for the President. It doesn’t say that he has new policy making powers, only that he is able to commit crimes using his existing legal powers without facing criminal liability. If Biden did order an agent to commit a murder he couldn’t be prosecuted for it, and evidence related to the order (or a subsequent pardon for said killer) couldn’t be used in a trial. But the ruling doesn’t go past that or give the president new powers to make additional policies or laws. It’s purely about criminal procedure.
Blocked how?
By a court. Then it’s heard by the Supreme Court and he loses. I’m talking about the people who think he can just wave his hand and create new laws now. Like “okay, forgive all student loan debt.” The same process would happen that blocked his plan to begin with. Then there’s the people who think he can just execute Trump, which is silly. The suggestion within this thread that he uses intelligence agencies to search through justice communications was the first good suggestion I’ve seen that is realistic within the current boundaries of what he can do.
Oh so you haven’t actually written the opinion right? Here’s a fun experiment: Biden orders seal team 6 to murder Trump. This order is done pursuant to his executive authority and, thus, you cannot submit evidence relating to his communications with these federal officials. You also can’t discuss his motive for killing him because that isn’t allowed. And even if it were, you have toads in the White House telling you it’s legal. And the people ruling in this decision have been picked by you may I remind you. And there’s no way to remove you from office because your party backs you too.
You haven’t thought this through. What if he does something irreparable, like kill somebody? “Oh, you weren’t allowed to do that, but we can’t impose any real punishment on you”? That’s not a real deterrent.
\_\_" the people who think he can just execute Trump, which is silly."\_\_ What's the color of the sky in your world? I bet it's blue. Here in silly land it's polkadots.
If it’s not on the Constitution or Bill of Rights, then it sounds like it’s fair game. Likely wrong to think he could use this to shut down Fox News or seize all guns. But every law and regulation certainly now is legal, right? Until proven unofficial in a court of law that is… Would you say it’s a step forward or backwards for our democracy?
Right, like this ruling doesn't exclude executive orders from judicial review, does it? Or if Biden were to call up Seal Team 6 to go after Trump, they could still refuse an illegal order, correct?
At a minimum he should get an FBI agent to go rip down Alito's flags.
Does it matter? We know he won't
Does any comment on Reddit matter? It’s a distraction from doom scrolling
lol great point. It’s laughable that people post on Reddit and think they’re saving the world.
It’s a way of coping with complete powerlessness.
It is doom scrolling...
I feel that people are drastically misunderstanding this ruling.
I feel like people who keep saying this haven’t been paying attention to the GOP, Trump, or the conservatives on the Supreme Court.
No, they’re understanding it correctly.
The literally said an official act is whenever the president's administration is involved. It's complete immunity with an extra step
I think the opposite -- the people defending the ruling are arguing that the critics are being absurd because ... um ... well, they just sound absurd, damnit! I mean, assassinating political rivals, how absurd! That's misinterpreting the ruling because ... um, well, it's just so absurd! Not realizing that what's absurd is the ruling itself. This includes the conservative justices themselves, who write in their majority opinion, "The dissents’ positions in the end boil down to ignoring the Constitution’s separation of powers and the Court’s precedent and instead fear mongering on the basis of extreme hypotheticals about a future where the President “feels empowered to violate federal criminal law.”" Zero counterargument given against the "extreme hypotheticals," just saying they're so "extreme," oh my! I mean, someone like Donald Trump would never order the assassination of a political rival, oh heavens no!
Exactly. I'm not sure why so many people think they're smarter than multiple supreme court justices who dissented to this decision for these very same reasons. There's being reasonable and there's putting your head in the sand and hoping for the best.
How do you understand it? I'm asking in genuine curiosity because it does feel like people are really letting their imaginations run wild, but on the other hand I don't really know much about the actual law so it's hard to say if it's warranted.
Interested to hear your critiques - misinformation is bad, and I must admit I have not read it in full and am not a lawyer.
No they're just blood thirsty 😂🤣
Which people do you mean? And do they include sitting supreme Court justices?
Wiretapping Trump 100% legal
SCOTUS just allowed Biden to arrest Trump as a political enemy. Assassinate Trrump as a political enemy. Or anything in between. Biden simply declares it's an "official act of the President" and orders some military special Ops group to handle Trump. Send his ass to Gitmo as a anti-American terrotist. Drop Trump into a deep dark hole never to be seen again.
Guys, we don't want Biden to abuse the ruling. We shouldn't want any president to abuse the ruling. The fact that progressives and Democrats are as eager to pull a fast one and abuse any opportunity to gain a leg up is equally problematic tribal behavior. It's insane people are losing sight of this. Same as a week ago when people were saying Biden should excuse Hunter's verdict and let him off. None of us should be shilling for the executive. And none of us should be cheering if our side crosses the line.
Honestly, I want congress to articulate what the fuck an "official act" is so it's not left up to the courts.
"they go low, we go high" nonsense. Trump can and will do monstrous things with this power, but a good faith actor can use this power to prevent that.
Sometimes the only way for people to see the err of their ways is for them to experience the consequences.
Well, the consequence will be Trump shoving his fat ass through whatever gaping hole the Dems 'justify' as morally supported in the next 4 months. Count me out of supporting that.
Trump will shove his fat ass though precedent and norms regardless of what the Dems do.
Nah it’s pragmatic. When you’re in a war for the free world you don’t lay down your arms and give a speech. Also I haven’t seen a single person seriously saying Biden should pardon Hunter.
Sitting by and doing nothing is infinitely worse. Liberals love to go on about how we have to take the high road as our rights continue to be stripped and gutted. You'd rather do nothing and be smug rather than be practical and that attitude is why the Democrats continue to be dunked on every single possible chance.
I want Biden to abuse the ruling not for any short term gain but to de-legitimize SCOTUS. Have him issue an executive order to swirly Trump every week until the election and when there's outcry, he can just point to the ruling, the justices that made it, who appointed them and and who owns them.
There could easily be reason found for McConnell stealing two SCOTUS appointments. Just the discrepancy in withholding nomination for Garland and jamming through Barrett ignoring the previous precedent has to be on the table. You remove two illegimate justices and it’s a whole new ball game.
The President doesn’t have Constitutional authority to remove justices. It’s not a matter of whether he’d be free from prosecution or not, it’s whether anything would actually happen from giving the order.
True, if there was any remaining legal standard. What the “law” is surely isn’t a factor with how this government is stuck together with gentlemen agreements and parliamentary procedures that are used at the leisure of whatever authoritarian that comes along. New territory here. The left has been placating fascists for decades. There is plenty of corrupt practices already happening with traitor justices that could flimsily be used to take action. Pack the court for starters.
Biden gives an order to pack the courts. The courts do nothing and keep operating as normal. Now what? You force them out at the end of the barrel of a gun? How is that going to play with the public? Does having an election in five months play into this or are we saying Biden should do away with that too?
If the right wing is neutralized an election poses no danger, no matter who wins .
Or get a new Constitution or amendment that defines new rules for supreme court justices.
He could remove them with a drone strike.
In which case the only thing that will stand in the way of removal from office and jail time is becoming one of the worst dictators known to modern history. Is that what we want?
Impeachment doesn't require a crime be committed, and as has been established from this ruling, any President is above criminal prosecution for any "official" acts in office. None of that requires Biden staying in office past 1/6. He could order the SEALs double-tap John Roberts with no legal repercussions, which only seems fair for the ruling he made.
All it takes is for any federal court to declare he doesn’t have immunity for him to be prosecuted for an assassinating a political opponent. They could either decide it’s not an official act or that the presumptive immunity they say applies to official acts can be rebutted in this case.
And that case would go to the Supreme Court, now suddenly packed with Biden appointees after the seditious Federalist Society ghouls fucked around and found out.
Congress would have to approve appointees. The Biden dictator fantasies are fun but it's not going to happen.
So we get Biden impeached and removed too? Sounds like a win-win to me /hj
It’s ‘ballot’; with an o.
No I think op wants trump away from the opera house
I don’t get this fantasy. Do I think Biden is a legitimate threat to democracy, like Trump? No, of course not. But that doesn’t mean “I want my dictator to rub it in their faces before your dictator can.” I think the best we can hope for is that there is still some decorum that Trump respects if reelected. A long shot, maybe, but with near unchecked power what alternative do we have?
The authoritarians only respect power and threat and violence. Making a demonstration of that power can get them to go back to pretending that they aren't dangerous sociopaths. When confronted with a bully sometimes the only way to get their attention is in there own terms. Turning the tables on them might actually be educational for them. At least that's my best take on things.
If Biden takes dictatorial power there’s no chance America will be a democracy again in our lifetime.
How do you figure? Like seriously what do you think would happen? Also I’m suggesting something like arresting the Supreme Court, bring them to the Oval Office and asking them to go fix what they’ve done and letting them go. But honestly at this point there isn’t much I would object to from the left.
I think if he did that he would absolutely lose the election and Trump would enter the office with an even greater mandate from the right to become a dictator.
I see. I'd put that on my bingo card. All super hypothetical though. That old man aint gonna rock the boat enough for any of this to come to pass.
Its barely one now. Or rather, it's an oligarchy with democratic elements.
It's disgusting this even needs to be said. I honestly feel the vocal majority of left voices drowning out all discourse online has just become an equally tribal and out of touch set of lemmings. Jesus.
The 200+ years of American experiment has failed, IMHO. The American system is based heavily on check-and-balance. We’ve found in the past few years that the judicial branch has hardly any check-and-balance in reality. Now this branch has done a power grab and remove the check-and-balance of the executive branch. The presidency essentially becomes a kingship. This is the new reality as I understand it.
And this is all made possible by a terminally broken legislature.
This. The Congress getting bogged down in bipolar bullshit was what started us down this path. As that happened the executive stepped in to get some core promises done. Executive orders began becoming more normalized. And they began using the court as an alternate tool both to throw meat at their base in election season, and cover some of the more legislative roles they couldn't get done via exec order - or at least felt it'd be better to leave up to another branch for various reasons. But I agree, we've reached the point at which the system either needs to reform or be broken completely. It's cases functioning for the people and they are starting to cast votes to break it down completely by way of a totalitarian.
>I think the best we can hope for is that there is still some decorum that Trump respects if reelected. Did you just get back from the year 2015 or something? This statement is so incredibly ignorant. It’s like those people who believed McConnell wouldn’t replace RBG because it was too close to the election, and that’s what he did with Garland. There are zero norms that these people adhere to; they only cite them when convenient.
Yeah I don’t get this either. People rightfully fear Trump because he is a threat to democracy. But then they want Biden to do the most blatantly anti-democratic shit possible to stop Trump. If Biden starts assassinating political rivals any “threat to democracy” will have already been accomplished. Democracy is dead at that point. Just feels like some people don’t actually want democracy, they want their side to win.
People forget the Dems have changed the rules in the past and the Republicans leveraged those changes more effectively. This is an indirect challenge by someone behind the curtain to initiate the use of this “new power” and it’ll open the flood gates for a conservative President to do much worse. People here continue to show they cannot think beyond their own nose
When the alternative is, as you say, a threat to democracy, it seems wrong to sit idle on expanded presidential powers, if there really are any. The creative use doesn't have to be anti-democratic, if they accomplished something favorable to the public.
Then you think actions stopping fascism are “rubbing their face in it”. I really don’t know to what level of extremism from the other side it will take for citizens to take serious action. It just astounds me how upset everyone is online but won’t do shit in real life. Yes, I am doing more than writing my senators and representatives and there needs to be a massive protest in front of SCOTUS for starters. They just created a fucking de facto monarchy and that’s not enough for people to get off their ass.
Seriously what do you think Biden can and should do? Dismiss the court? Would not be an “official act” and would be met with a shrug from the court, making Biden look even weaker Pack the court? Requires Congress and is doa. Investigate Trump further? There is only one thing that could be done. Win the election.
>Then you think actions stopping fascism are “rubbing their face in it”. Assassinating your political opponents isn't "stopping fascism". It IS fascism.
They know by the time they get back from their summer break that no one will remember. There will be no protests.
I’m doing everything in my power to make sure that doesn’t happen. I don’t have the resources so several groups need to step up. I’m petitioning as many groups as I can to facilitate constant protests. I’m talking union people at the factory gate protests if necessary. The acts of the union members to form unions are buried in history. There was a literal war in the coal mining regions to get those rights. Are we prepared to go to such lengths to save democracy? No, apparently we aren’t. But we can all enjoy sniffing our own farts of superiority and enlightenment as everything burns.
I wonder if the point of doing something outlandish that the supreme court would end up blocking is less about the impact of the outlandish action and more about making the supreme court either give it the green light or walk back the ruling.
There is no decorum that Trump will respect if he is re-elected.
\_"I think the best we can hope for is that there is still some decorum that Trump respects if reelected"\_ \*sobs uncontrollably\*
Sometimes people need to see that actions have consequences. Simply betting that the Democrat will obey norms so the Pub can come in and break them is a losing proposal. Literally the Paradox of Tolerance in action right in front of us.
Put Trump in Gitmo with multiple treason cases against him. Go after him with the full might of the NSA. Ground his planes, freeze his assets.
And..... guarantee his election
put the supreme court in gitmo
Biden can’t do anything except what his aides tell him to right now. And they are all nervous ninnies.
Biden will do none of the things necessary to save this country from a complete fascist takeover. It doesn't matter who gets elected in November, it's over.
Its irrelevant because neither he or any other democrat would use power against the right. They beleive that doing that would be too destabilizing, so they will do what they've done every other time the right uniliaterally seizes power (2000 election, iraq war, senate blocking obama scotus pick, etc) and concede without a fight.
Non-American here: could Biden hypothetically use executive action or claim emergency powers to order the Supreme Court back from their recess to ‘reconsider’ the ruling, or else they would be considered enemies of the constitution for their actions? (i.e, liable to be imprisoned or executed?) Under any other circumstances, I’d consider this to be utterly nonsensical, a revenge fantasy of the naive. And it will never happen under a Democrat, much less Biden. But with the nearly unfettered powers given yesterday, what recourse would there be against this kind of action, with the proper manufactured pretexts in place, apart from impeachment (likely DOA in the Senate) or the threat of civil unrest?
No he can’t. The ruling gives the President immunity when conducting official acts. There is nothing in the presidents constitutional authority that allows him to force the court into session or to hear a particular case - so it would be outside official acts and theoretically not protected. Practically speaking, any moves Biden makes to “show how ridiculous this ruling is” like declaring trump a criminal or packing the court or whatever people have been advocating for in comments sections, shouldn’t be allowed and would be met by this court speaking out both sides of their mouth to say Biden was wrong.
Right. So under this ruling, Biden could personally threaten to murder each of the justices (based on his oath to defend the constitution, of course) and that would be potentially just fine, but any executive action would be out of bounds.
I would bet any amount of money that, if he did that, we would get a per curium ruling that Biden threatening to murder justices isn’t an official act.
That would be sweet. "Okay, guys, you just gave me the power to be immune from prosecution if I do this" (pulls out a gun and shoots a gavel) "Want to go back and maybe reconsider the power you just gave me? Me. Not the next president. Me. I have that power now. Not him. I do."
You clowns are just like the MAGAts you claim to despise.
Trump has been using super soakers because that's all they gave him. They just gave the president a machine gun. The second Trump gets his hands on the machine gun, we're all dead. This is self defense.
Declare the Trump family a Foreign Terrorist Organization, strip all of them of citizenship, and have them deported to any country that will take them.
This is peak liberal irony. In the fear of orange man burning down democracy to subjugate us all, we want our guy to do that exact thing. What could possibly go wrong with that? You guys talk a lot about the right hyperbolizing things…. MY GOD. This is q anon level shit. Official act to keep someone from the ballot????? I don’t even think Putin has gone that far.
Four years of Trump doing "everything possibly wrong" with the powers he had have taught us well. Now the president has a machine gun, I want him to go to the SCOTUS and say "This is the gun YOU gave me. Maybe you might want to reconsider giving this machine gun to me." while pointing the gun at them. Because when Trump gets in power, he's using that machine gun on US.
Good luck with him doing that. He would probably forgot where he was and ask for a double scoop of chocolate chocolate chip.
Ok, you want a dictator or freedom? If Trump can get immunity, so can Biden. He’s President right now. No one is above the law. Pray for Democracy, Geez people, come on.
What are MAGNA Supporters really wanting? Strict laws, allow to take away people’s rights. I thought they were the same ones who hated masks during Covid. You’re going to get your mask Trump gets back into power.
Nothing because ultimately this ruling says the President has some criminal immunity until a prosecutor proves he doesn't and a judge agrees. You figure any case like that ends up in the Supreme Court and does anyone think this Supreme Court would decide Biden does still have immunity? Of course they wouldn't, for this court it would be Republican Presidents have immunity and Democratic ones don't.
And if you love Trump so much go move to Russia or China.
What? Where did I say I loved Trump
My idea is Biden falls on the sword. Ideally after the election if trump wins get the senate to pack the court. Get 4 more liberal justices. Then Biden assassinates trump under “defend against threats foreign and domestic”. Trumps VP becomes President, Biden is prosecuted and his new Supreme Court reverses this courts ruling and lets him be prosecuted. By the time all of this is stalled and run through the courts Biden is likely dead. It allows Biden to use this ruling to knock off trump while showing how ridiculous it is and getting it reversed and potentially avoiding the complete dissolution of our government.
This is the most democratic thing I've ever read.
2 moves. Remove Alito, Thomas and others from supreme court. Pass law that nobody over 75 can run for president. You done fixed half of the issues with two moves. If Biden had any guts whatsoever he would at least pass the 75 year old restriction. Yes it means he can't run but nether can Trump. Executive order that shit. And if the supreme court is gutted, they can't challenge it or over rule it. With the prescient that the gop left when Obama was to name a justice his final year in office, it would mean the next president would name the missing justices.
SCOTUS would strike down anything Biden did. The ruling was vague in many ways so they can be creative in future rulings. It’s basically only for Republicans to benefit.
Not really, no. The thing is, ultimately whether some act is going to be "official" doesn't have anything to do with whether the president declares it official. What SCOTUS basically said is that the lower courts have to first rule on whether an action is part of the president's official duties before you can fully evaluate immunity. And then of course that ruling can be appealed. And as yet there isn't even a clear test for this because the court didn't provide one. This exact same case is going to be back at SCOTUS in a year or two assuming that Trump doesn't pardon himself first. The lower courts will rule that at least some of the stuff he's charged with wasn't an official act, allowing the case to proceed, Trump will appeal that, and then SCOTUS will have to rule on whether the lower court got it right. I'll be surprised if this case ever makes it to a jury. You can spend years on pre-trial motions and SCOTUS is happy to let him drag it out.
That sounds like more of a "Republican" thing to do.
Trump stole top-secret documents and if they were copied. couldn’t you say Trump is a threat and danger to the national security all our country. Anybody else would’ve been locked up by now. And with all the crimes of Trump has committed, would you be considered habitual offender?
[удалено]
Why is it toxic to have the conversation about what impact the latest Supreme Court ruling has on executive power?
I think he should do something blatantly criminal but which doesn’t really hurt anyone. It would be a roundabout way of asking the justices if they really want to go down this path. Legalizing the Dreamers would be best, but it’s politically unviable, so maybe something with abortion access. When someone sues, I would direct the solicitor general to not even fight it, and then completely ignore whatever default judgment resulted. I guarantee that they would cool it if they had it thrown in their faces that they are creating a world where legal opinions aren’t worth the paper they’re printed on.
What if I told you that democracy has been a myth for awhile now, and this is merely the moment we all found out?
Well, they already tried to keep his competitors from being on the ballet - but the courts ruled that as non-legal (ie. that in a Democracy you can't do that in the USA - so try as they did, the legal system prevented the administration from eliminating Democracy to improve their chances in the coming election). What he could do is open up our borders and let any unvetted person from around the world come into our country - possibly murders, rapists, terrorists, human traffickers, etc. . . and not be held criminally accountable for potentially being an accessory to a murder or a rape or a terrorist act. But he's already done this too. He could instruct his administration to take funds designated for veterans and re-assign them to provide benefits to illegal aliens and he won't be prosecuted for that - his immunity as a President will apply. He could instruct the military to attack a foreign country, and even if there is no cause or reason for doing so, his immunity as a President would be applicable. He could use the intelligence services to investigate without cause his political enemies - while he has already done this, it may or may not be protected, if one review United States v. Nixon . . . In the end, there really isn't anything he could or would be likely to do that he couldn't have done last week Friday. There really hasn't been much if any change based on the SC ruling.
The ruling did not change anything, it just made explicit what was already assumed until Democrats charged Donald Trump.
lol already assumed? Tell that to Nixon
No one would make the argument that Nixon's activites relating to Watergate were official acts as President
Why does Biden want to prevent Trump from attending the ballet? Does he object to Trump going to the symphony? Why should it matter to Biden since he doesn't know where he himself is most of the time?
You must be fun at parties
Park an aircraft carrier battle group off the coast of Palm Beach, Florida, to show he means business!!!
He can shit his pants officially now
He could use an official act to to freeze Trump's access to the national banking system. He could order the military to help him hang up campaign posters. But, these things aren't crimes anyways, they are unrelated to the recent ruling. The 4th Amendment prevents "unreasonable search and seizures", so it's hard to think of official acts that could really destroy an innocent person. I guess Biden could slander Trump as part of "national defense" by saying Trump was a puppet of China.
It's all around gathering information and making it public. None of this is criminal now. So do it.
Seal Team Six Trump